A “Holy War” is the same as being “pretty ugly”, it is an oxymoron used as a fancy suit to dress up a pig of human behavior that under any circumstances would be viewed as primitive, animalistic and bloodthirsty. This high sounding term is nothing more than men granting themselves a license to do all of the despicable things that men can do without feeling any guilt, because they are acting in the cause of God. Perhaps, lunatics, fanatics and the mentally unstable buy into this thinking but there is no such thing as a Holy War just as there is no such thing as Microsoft Works!

Throughout history, men have justified war and cruelty in the name of God. The Inquisition and the Crusades are just two examples of “Holy Wars” that were really barely disguised attempts at colonialism and plain old theft. Islam also had its wars of conquest and invoked the term “Holy War” to cover its tracks also.

There is nothing Holy about war at all and that is why men and women of reason and rationale go out of their ways to avoid it, but for those who are inadequate of the world and its many complexities, it is the perfect rallying call for those mindless throngs who seek answers elsewhere rather than to peer too deeply at themselves. This type of fundamentalism, whether Christian or Islamic, reflects a basic weakness in dealing with the real world and moderninity.

There is little difference between the Christian fundamentalist and the Islamic fundamentalist or for that matter any fundamentalist—they are seeking not a return to fundamentals, but a return to the 12th century when the world lived in ignorance and fear of the unknown. A Holy War? Humbug! Let’s call it what it is and that is a chance for intolerant and self-righteous people to fight, maim and kill other people who have the audacity to be self-reliant, freethinking and able to live in the world as it is.

A Holy war? No, it is an oxymoron that makes as much sense as “educational television.”

there is nothing holy bout dis war
its just been named in a shameful way !!!
ya right brutha

It is so sad that peopledo things and then claim that they are doingit for God as if they have a direct pipeline to God and that no one else could possibly ne right. I prefer straight out hatred without invoking God as an excuse. If you want to kill me, don't tell the world that God is calling you to do this. Tell the truth, it is something that you want to do and a few words in some book has provided the excuse that you need to do what you all ready wanted to do. Call it straight out. Don't hide behind religion. Just say it. Then we know what you are--a murderer--plain and simple. A holy murderer is no different from the average everyday murderer, except they aren't honest enough to admit it.

Ra

Wonderfull post, Bro!

I thank you for stopping past andtaking the time--Amun-Ra

Amun-Ra,

i truly apprecilove mindfull seeds in this universe of folks who have eyes but still dont have any vision~

i posted your post in my egroup Blacksoil, ok?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Blacksoil

Hempress*)0(*

I'd like to thank you for joining us. I am grateful that you are here and hope that your participation in this community will be always.

With all due respect, you should receive permission from the owner of a work prior to using it, rather than, using it then asking if it is okay.

You'll find many conscious authors, poets and writers here (some published). All of whom would (probably) be flattered that you'd think so highly of their work to use it, just ask them first.

Destee, thank you for the welcome but i must say that i didnt use his post but shared it in my egroup~ And being that this is an opened forumed i could have used it without letting anyone know about it~

Asking permission is the best way to do this but many folks dont even come back to check on their post but once a week, maybe never and by then the war could be over:)

I honestly choosed to let him know that i shared it in my group, and once its shared in cyber it then become the property of this entire community as it did here~

what if i hadnt ask but just copy and paste without a thank you then we wouldnt even be having this discussion and im sure this happens 1000s times a day but 1 true being ask before she borrowed a flower from the garden, thats all~

all post are flowers in a field just waiting to be picked by an admirer~



thank you,
Hempress*)0(*

Hi HAH,

I do appreciate you letting him know that you used (copied, reproduced, displayed, performed, distributed, etc.) it in your group. No, you did not have to do that and we probably never would have known anything about it. Taking the time to let him know says much about your integrity. Thank you.

The fact of the matter is, content published to a web site does not automatically classify it as "public domain," (free to be used without regard to copyright ownership). Copyrighted works on the Internet include news stories, short stories, poetry, software, novels, screenplays, graphics, pictures, and even email, just to name a few. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of items on the Internet are protected by copyright law. In spite of this, many feel that it's okay to use what belongs to another without permission.

I'm no attorney, so I won't go on and on regarding the legal wrangling of violating one's copyright protection.

More important to this community and our community at large, is respect. The respect of one's person and property. Regardless of how eager I may be to use a property, or however relevant the property may be, nothing should keep me from first requesting permission. In my opinion, it's all about respect, whether on a street corner, in a church, at a club or on the Internet.

As you mentioned, there may be many who are using the copyrighted works shared here without mention/permission. My only hope is they are not Members of this forum, for the Members of this forum respect themselves, each other, and the work shared here.

to the following description...

a chance for intolerant and self-righteous people to fight, maim and kill other people who have the audacity to be self-reliant, freethinking and able to live in the world as it is

I would have to add that most wars or maybe even all wars are based on power as well....throw some greed and world domination in there...mix it all up and you have an end result that is anything but Holy....do they think that calling it a Holy War, somehow will justify the atrocities that will be carried out during that war....do they think they can hide behind the cloak of religion and the church or god they believe in....no...calling any act such as war, Holy, is one of the most hypocritical statements man has made....

and the one fact that never ceases to amaze me...is that, in most cases, the guy on the power trip is not the one out there risking his life or getting blood on his hands, guess he's too busy praying for guidance...

K

You nail this one--you almost forgot to mentionmoney--most wars are about have and have nots--then the people in power dress in up with another face and call something new and send their people off to war-staying far to the back to ensure that there is always someone there to do the planning, while others do the heavy lifting--you are so right on this--Ra

;)

You have made my point for me. “Though seldom used, God has called upon his people to wage holy wars under certain conditions. The Israelites clearing out the area of Palestine is an example. HE required that everything be destroyed. Humans, animals and plants. A similar act is to occur at the end times. We are called upon to fight evil and pagans, (not necessarily exclusive) wherever they may be.” This is the same thinking that is pervasive in Islam and other religious interpretations and that is the key point—interpretations, because in the final analysis, it is men who are doing the interpreting. When a man says that he speaks to God, he is thought divine, but when a man says that God speaks to him he is thought either crazy or a saint, which in either case may make no difference because we still have to take their word for it.

I had tried to stay away from bringing the Bible or Koran into this, but it is clear that when people read these books they see what they want to see and leave the rest behind. For atrocities committed in the name of religion and sanctioned by holy scripture lets starts with the: The Crusades, The Inquisition, the Witch trials in Europe and America, missionaries destroying/converting smaller, "heathen" religions and cultures, the persecution of heretics - e.g. Galileo for daring to suggest that the Earth orbits the Sun, slavery ("Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, just as you would obey Christ.", St. Paul, Ephesians 6:5), Holy wars - followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their benevolent, loving and merciful gods, and the attempted genocide of followers of a particular faith just to name a few.

But for specific incidences, we need look no further than the Old Testament to see this sanctioned murder in action. It seems that men have placed the responsibility for their greed and actions upon God. Somehow it is never noticed that the people who lived in the lands taken over by the Israelites is all ready occupied and the only offenses of many of the people who lived there is not to be Jews or believe in the Jewish god. Here are just a few examples of the inspiration that moved men to kill others:

Compassion and Mercy

EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.

EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.

NU 21:35 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay Og "... and his sons and all his people, until there was not one survivor left ...."

Women, Children and Mercy

These are some of my favorites because it shows clearly how men treated women, children and how the benevolent of loving God treated his people—that is if all the people of the earth are his, because this is pre-Jesus and only Jews were able to do this.

NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.

DT 20:13-14 "When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves."

DT 21:10-13 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after sexual relations, the husband has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.

Holy War

There are so many instances of “Holy” brutality and men doing foul deeds in the name of God that I limited to these specific cases:

DT 20:16 "In the cities of the nations the Lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."

JS 8:22-25 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men and women, so that there were none who escaped.

JS 10:10-27 With the help of the Lord, Joshua utterly destroys the Gibeonites.

JS 10:28 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Makkedah.

JS 10:30 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Libnahites.

JS 10:32-33 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Lachish.

JS 10:34-35 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Eglonites.

JS 10:36-37 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Hebronites.

JS 10:38-39 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Debirites.

JS 10:40 (A summary statement.) "So Joshua defeated the whole land ...; he left none remaining, but destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."

I threw this one in just for the fun of it.

EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly.

My main point in all of this is that we are always dealing with some man’s interpretation of an interpretation. We don’t know what God told anyone. We are taking the word of those who wrote the Bible long after these events were supposed to have occurred.

Ra


:cool:

Indeed it does in one of the hundreds of interpetations--that is the only one you could pick out? We were talking about Holy War! Check them out--all of them! I threw in the reference to slaves as I said, for the fun of it--but back to the subject--Holy War--address the scripture and the actions of the benelovent and loving God of the Hebrews--Ra

god, his view and scriptures???

thank goodness for dogs, cats, cannabis sativa l. and non scripture reading beings, for huemons are truly retarded/disfunctional when it comes to real'eyes'in the simple truth about living within he'r natural vortex of our universe~ without plants, earthly organisms and really be~you~ty FULL things, we mutant carriers of bacteria would have destroyed this fertile planet a long time ago~ folks dont know or love a god but some do love plants and animals, for unlike "a god" we can really know them first ~

huemons are the only species that need a bible, koran book to overstand how this life works~ doesnt that tell you how in'fear'ior we really are? we are a virus of allah {arms, legs, & head} and s'he has been trying to rid herself of this afflection since we arrived here on he'r body~ this virus has somewhat mutated, for it can nolonger exist on such plain and will do anything now to survive, even call itself a holy war, priest or clone huemon beings~ what we see as 2000+ years is nothing but borrowed warped time inwhich we all will have to deal with before we pass on,, i have been there and it aint no simple minute of time but a lifetime of events that pass & pass & pass before you~ all the god, bibles or praying wont be able to assist one on our cross over from this time scale to the next~ animals and plants {cannabis sativa l. is our christ and thats why its illegal} are our only bible and if we look anywhere else then we are truly in'fear'ior beings who'll be sent back to do it all over again, maybe as a clone being used as a sex toy for some rich priest pervert interpetiing scriptures to his altar boys~ he'll get his warped time of scripts he'll be replayng before he passes on, as well, and he may never get a second chance to get it right, but will remain in this warp time for enternity~ to me, that is what a ghost is, a past being who is stuck in this warped time replaying the same unforgiving act over & over again~ there are many patriotic ghost running around with guns on battle fields~

much peace & overstanding
Hempress Ahava Hamer {hah}

I am very obtuse and you lost me with the first huemon, but I certainly appreciate the reply--I did pick up on the reference to only humans needing books to tellthem how to live and that is interesting--I'll have to take another look tomorrow and see if I can comeup with a better explanation of my point--or, maybe I'll let this slip into darkness--ah, but that wouldn't be sporting would it--I started it and I should stay around until it is finished--Amun-Ra

;)

Cologne! Man haver I got a thing for cologne--I hate it!

Ra

;)

Amun-Ra, "hue'mons" is a rastafarian way of saying human~ and i do get your awesome point,, i wish you overstood mines~

I agree with you and my point is that we huemons have been intentially made disfunctional at birth because of the bible, etc..~ We are programed/diverted into believing that we must be baptise by a priest when a wombmon's placenta is our only true holy baptism~ Books arent meant to really liberate us or they'd be made illegal just as Cannabis Sativa L. is~ Those scriptures were written for simple minded folks to follow and act out a laid out plan so that we'd be predictable and we are, for most folks have picked up a bible or koran and acted much of it out over and over again like lab mice on a wheel~ How could anyone in our conscious minds go into any war, again, today? How could we not real'eye's today that our huemon development has been intentially retarded by such scripts, so that we remain enslaved for an enternity~ It's like being taught that we need to wear cologne to find that special mate, so we $pend a lifetime attempting to create that perfect cologne, even if we have to cut down our entire rain forest to create it, murder millions and conquer someone elses land, etc...,,, when all we ever needed was to be taught to respect our bredrens, animals, earth, air, fire & water to attract a good mate~ We are the only species who have wasted so so much time going over what a book has said, like we do with that bible, and having wars because of misinterpreting it, when all we needed was nature to show us the simplist way of getting along in this life, for a simple old tree could give us a lifetime of truth and protection~

We should have evolved into awesome spiritual healing beings/trees by now but instead have wasted time regressing into nothing but cyber, bible toten, war monkeys, wearing the latest cologne~


maybe what im saying aint vibin correctly but its been fun trying to connect here:)

much love, peace & overstanding anyway:)

No pun or disrespect intended--I was truly lost--I stayed with you part of the way through, but I lost the thread and was unable to keep up--not your fault--as I said, I am somewhat obtuse--but don't let that keep you from commenting--as I said, I appreciate that you even took the time to do so and not only that, to reply with forethought and knowledge as you did--by the way, if you read me on these pages, you will find that I often have my tongue far into my cheek when I write and you also find that I find absolutely nothing nothing that is off limits for writing about and that's why it is fun--so keep commenting and keep it real--Ra

;)