Peace and Blessings Family,

It seems that once a little Black girl comes out of the womb, one of the first things that takes place in her life ... is that she gets a perm or gets her hair pressed. Something has to be done to her hair, for her to be pretty. :(

Little white girls, little asian girls ... all other little girls ... come out of the womb pretty.

But not our little Black girls.

We rush them to the hairdresser, or the kitchen sink, to make what God gave them something else.

What does this do to a young girl's self-esteem ... her long-term view of herself?

What are we saying to our babies, by rushing them off to pressing combs and relaxers, at such a young age?

Are we perpetuating the weapons of mass destruction put on our people?

What are we saying to our sons, regarding beauty?

Are little Black girls ugly ... the way God made them?

:heart:

Destee

I hear you queen Destee.

and I really dig what you said in chat. That our hair grows toward the sun. This is a token of our favor with the Most High. Our hair gives tribute to Ra.

I remember when Alice Walker gave an interview concerning one of her books. In the photo she was sporting a huge Huey Newton. She said there was just no way she could write that book with straight hair.

It's not JUST hair. If it's JUST hair then why not JUST leave it alone? Our ancestors did not reduce anything to JUST this or that. They understood the significance and spiritual impact of everything. But blindness leaves us free to do damage.

Sister Destee, of course little black girls are gorgeous the way god created them - I happen to think black babies and children are cuter than all other race of children (yes, I am biased). You are right, we do an awful lot of damage to their self-esteem and psyche by perpetuating a european standard of beauty. However, I fear that even if we stopped relaxing and pressing our little girls hair, they would still get the message that straight, long hair is the preferred standard of beauty in this society. The all powerful media perpetuates this message at every turn.

My daughter is 3 1/2 and she likes disney. When I look at disney movies where the lead character is a person not an animal, I come up with:

The Little Mermaid - white female with long, red hair
Cinderella - blonde, white female with long hair
Mulan - Asian with long hair
Pocahontas - Native American with long hair
Beauty and the Beast - white female with long hair
Sleeping Beauty - white female with straight, black hair

Are there any animated movies that feature pretty black girls or women with natural hair?

It's the same thing with the any series on disney featuring us (think Raven, SisterSister, The Proud family).

I try to counteract what she sees by telling her she is beautiful and buying books that feature us with natural hair.

Sister Destee, of course little black girls are gorgeous the way god created them - I happen to think black babies and children are cuter than all other race of children (yes, I am biased). You are right, we do an awful lot of damage to their self-esteem and psyche by perpetuating a european standard of beauty. However, I fear that even if we stopped relaxing and pressing our little girls hair, they would still get the message that straight, long hair is the preferred standard of beauty in this society. The all powerful media perpetuates this message at every turn.

My daughter is 3 1/2 and she likes disney. When I look at disney movies where the lead character is a person not an animal, I come up with:

The Little Mermaid - white female with long, red hair
Cinderella - blonde, white female with long hair
Mulan - Asian with long hair
Pocahontas - Native American with long hair
Beauty and the Beast - white female with long hair
Sleeping Beauty - white female with straight, black hair

Are there any animated movies that feature pretty black girls or women with natural hair?

It's the same thing with the any series on disney featuring us (think Raven, SisterSister, The Proud family).

I try to counteract what she sees by telling her she is beautiful and buying books that feature us with natural hair.

Yes Sister C-note, that is the challenge. Not to mention our own projecting this imagine on to each other everyday. You can stand to uniquely beautiful girls side by side, and our own will look at the one whose skin is lighter, hair longer and straighter, and say how beautiful she is. Leaving the darker child, whose hair is thinker, fuller, and not as straight, thinking she must not be beautiful.

What I noticed also, is when the father is in the home, or active in their little girls lives, and reenforcing momma oppinions on how beautiful their daughters are, the more likely the child will except their own outer/inner beauty.

I can't remember ever seeing any Black person on Disney. Glorifying Pocahontas who betrayed her people to aide the white men who later slaughtered them is a slap in the face of Native Americans so I don't see that as their acceptance of Native Americans ove Blacks.

Maybe we have to abandon the media in mass. If they aren't going to support us why should we continue to support them? Maybe it's time to let them see that Black people are their lifeblood.

Peace and Blessings Family,

It seems that once a little Black girl comes out of the womb, one of the first things that takes place in her life ... is that she gets a perm or gets her hair pressed. Something has to be done to her hair, for her to be pretty. :(

Little white girls, little asian girls ... all other little girls ... come out of the womb pretty.

But not our little Black girls.

We rush them to the hairdresser, or the kitchen sink, to make what God gave them something else.

What does this do to a young girl's self-esteem ... her long-term view of herself?

What are we saying to our babies, by rushing them off to pressing combs and relaxers, at such a young age?

Are we perpetuating the weapons of mass destruction put on our people?

What are we saying to our sons, regarding beauty?

Are little Black girls ugly ... the way God made them?

:heart:

Destee

I think that when black girls are little their hair is not nearly as scrutinized. I've seen many people of all races stop a black mother to compliment her on a "pretty brown baby with curly hair". I've seen this last from infancy up to even 5 or 6 years old. Its not until the cute little curls grown out fully that certain people seem to label it as "kinky" or "wild". The afro on a ten year old girl is not nearly as accepted as the "cute little curls" of a preschooler.

I think that's why some white women desire to father children with a black or hispanic man. They want their little girls to have cute little curls or waves, as long as they don't expand into anything "kinky" or "nappy" (an advantage most of us don't have).

As black girls grow older they need to be affirmed by those closest to them, especially other women who could potentially influence how they view their hair. Black men also play a big role in this. If a little girl doesn't feel that her natural beauty can be appreciated by the males around her, how can she be confident that it will oneday attract the mate of her choice?

What I noticed also, is when the father is in the home, or active in their little girls lives, and reenforcing momma oppinions on how beautiful their daughters are, the more likely the child will except their own outer/inner beauty.


Amen and hallelujah to that!!! Most people can readily see how important a male figure is in a boy's life, but the presence of a male figure in a girl's life is most often underestimated imho.

I've managed to realize a humble, yet plausible perspective:

Again, america is where we learn to develop and to attempt to maintain "the advantage." The height, indeed the very pinnacle of this advantage, comes by way of financial superiority which has always been maintained and exemplified by-but not necessarily confined to-the rich white male. So, in contrast, the most vulnerable and disadvantaged Being-while still adhering to this “unconscious” paradigm-would prove to be the poor Black Woman. And we are so very unfortunately familiar with how many take advantage of sisters as such.

So if you look at the root and time from which perms derived, you have women who try hard to decrease their level of vulnerability and perceived disadvantage by going to measures unheard of to look "at least" like every other person/so-called race instead of Being special and unique. That is, if being different means also being the most disadvantaged. In the past this played out as only the "po' lil Black gulls" being laughed at for staying nappy. Leaving only the more "well-to-do" and "cultured" of us to the dreaded hair-perm, regardless of whether or not such women actually had more money. All that mattered was appearance. This has since evolved into the hair-weave, hair-piece, hair-wig, and still now, the harmful hair perm. Each screaming at the top of their lungs “look at me, I’m just like you now”-“You” being anyone but “ME”.

With so-called men this assimilation manifests itself as our only acknowledging our women if they resemble those of our oppressors. And even then it is often times with the same disrespect that they hold for their women/insignificant others. In either instance, the "Black" component loses its consciousness and mutates (over time) into a cast that both articulates our position in america and enables us to identify with one another’s shared psychologically oppressive american experience. Being a "Black" woman becomes the identifying stigma revealing a sisterhood of common understanding of what it means to be a "sister" trying hard but failing to fit into american society while being truly appreciated (again, at least appreciated as much as are all the other so-called races of women).

Regardless, the obvious/physical is just a manifestation of our want and desire to be like others and to be so unlike who we are.
I.e., our root issues stem from beneath the scalp.

I can't remember ever seeing any Black person on Disney. Glorifying Pocahontas who betrayed her people to aide the white men who later slaughtered them is a slap in the face of Native Americans so I don't see that as their acceptance of Native Americans ove Blacks.
Not to mention the child was only 12. Yet another skewed message.

Ok, I have a confession that I think many, if not most, brothers can relate to, but are probably scared or ashamed to openly share...

There was a time when almost any non-Black woman was more desirable to me than my own African sisters. This was because all I primarily knew were the processed hair (processed mind) unbeweavable sisters, and the unremitting self-hate of our hair by our women only made me have aversion to African women. This is because unconsciously the perm and hair weave strongly implies inferiority to other women (who just happen to have straight hair). It was confusing to me how our Black women were trying so hard to look like White women, but then got pissed at brothers for getting one. In fact, the attitudes of these Black women on the issue made me resent them for being so hypocritical.

I have never been with a pure snowflake, but I used to chase after light-skinned, mixed, or Latin women. The last 2 straight-Black sisters I was with hated themselves so much, but at the same time expected me to love them so much. It dawned on me that you cannot expect someone to love you when you don't love yourself...thus deepening my resentment for unbeweavable sisters. Don't get me wrong, there is no woman more beautiful than the Black woman to me. However, at the time, when I saw sisters trying to be sexy like a White or non-Black woman, it intrinsically made me look at these same Black women as inferior to the women they are using as their standard of beauty.

Just to be clear, if someone finds a natural affinity with someone of another race, then no one has the right to tell anyone they shouldn't be together. However, I think many people (both men and women) seek intimate partners of other ethnicities out of the psychological damage done to the African psyche. To be honest, probably the only thing that healed this damage was my immersion into Pan-Africanism and the study of African civlization before European enslavement. I still do not care for perms or weaves on my sisters, but there is no doubt that they are still the most beautiful women in the world. I have simply made a conscious decision that the sister I end up with most probably has to be natural (i.e. locks, afro, braids, twists, etc.). I'll tell you, the search for a sister like this is getting long and arduous, but it will be worth it in the end for me and my children.

Hotep...

Sister Destee, of course little black girls are gorgeous the way god created them - I happen to think black babies and children are cuter than all other race of children (yes, I am biased). You are right, we do an awful lot of damage to their self-esteem and psyche by perpetuating a european standard of beauty. However, I fear that even if we stopped relaxing and pressing our little girls hair, they would still get the message that straight, long hair is the preferred standard of beauty in this society. The all powerful media perpetuates this message at every turn.

My daughter is 3 1/2 and she likes disney. When I look at disney movies where the lead character is a person not an animal, I come up with:

The Little Mermaid - white female with long, red hair
Cinderella - blonde, white female with long hair
Mulan - Asian with long hair
Pocahontas - Native American with long hair
Beauty and the Beast - white female with long hair
Sleeping Beauty - white female with straight, black hair

Are there any animated movies that feature pretty black girls or women with natural hair?

It's the same thing with the any series on disney featuring us (think Raven, SisterSister, The Proud family).

I try to counteract what she sees by telling her she is beautiful and buying books that feature us with natural hair.


I feel what you are saying, however, you may be underestimating the power and influence of African people. The only reason why these standards of beauty are even in the programming supposedly catering to us is because we let it. Do you remember the influence of Blacks in the 70's? We sported our afro, whether Whites liked it or not. Then, even African-American programming had afro sisters. Our hair has such preeminence that in the 70's, White folks ran out to perm their hair frying it sometimes irreparably so that it crinkled up into an afro-like ball on their heads. The primary problem is that we have stopped loving ourselves...

Peace and Blessings Family,

It seems that once a little Black girl comes out of the womb, one of the first things that takes place in her life ... is that she gets a perm or gets her hair pressed. Something has to be done to her hair, for her to be pretty. :(

Little white girls, little asian girls ... all other little girls ... come out of the womb pretty.

But not our little Black girls.

We rush them to the hairdresser, or the kitchen sink, to make what God gave them something else.

What does this do to a young girl's self-esteem ... her long-term view of herself?

What are we saying to our babies, by rushing them off to pressing combs and relaxers, at such a young age?

Are we perpetuating the weapons of mass destruction put on our people?

What are we saying to our sons, regarding beauty?

Are little Black girls ugly ... the way God made them?

:heart:

Desteeas a father of two girls and grandfather of another,let me say that ain't no ugly black girls in my house[smile]but i understand where you're coming from and all i can say is that in today's world i don't know if as much attention is put into pressing a girl's hair as it was back in the day[pre-1970]my daughters whose hair is basically straight would rather braid it than wear it hanging down,of course i don't spend much time around the hair salon so i'll shut up and let the sisters speak.

Okay, since it is confession time. I have never wanted to be with a white man nor a light-skinned man. I have, however, wanted to be treated the way I see some white and other men treat their women--as in putting them on a pedestal, kill or die to defend them and their children, outward displays of respect (whether fake or not) for their women (as in not publicly criticizing their women (except for Eminem-types :spin: ) even though their women are far from perfect, etc., treating their women like "ladies" in public, talking about their women and children with pride in their voice and on their face, etc.), not abandoning their women and children, etc.

I don't think I've ever really heard a grown black man say out loud that he doesn't like a sistah with nappy hair, but I certainly heard my male cousins say it enough when I was a girl. What I, and other black women do notice and talk about among ourselves is the reaction of so many black men to the long, straight, or wavy hair of white or light women and to the light or white skin tone.

I strongly believe that if some black women who want to be natural knew EXACTLY which black men actually appreciate a natural woman, those women would do a lot to be around those men--that is if the men otherwise had something to offer. Black women get tired of perming, weaving, and even that expensive braiding--not to mention the time and money involved, but as long as the lighter longer-haired woman gets the attention she does from black males, this will continue.

I am natural because I like my natural hair but also because I just got tired of spending the money, time, and energy getting my hair done. At many hair salons, black women are held hostage by hairdressers because they know that once you get in there and your hair is loose and wild, you're not going to leave until you get your hair done. I got fed up with my hair dresser because EVERY time I went there, she would have me running errands for her like taking her sister to the train station, or running out to buy her lunch, or babysitting. On top of that, I'd still be there for about 5 hours and I still had to pay her and tip her! This was typical in all the shops in my area, so it wasn't like I could go anywhere else. Finally, I just stood in front of my mirror and learned how to do my own hair and now I get compliments on my nappy style just about every few days--from other black women and from white women and men.

I hear you queen Destee.

and I really dig what you said in chat. That our hair grows toward the sun. This is a token of our favor with the Most High. Our hair gives tribute to Ra.

I remember when Alice Walker gave an interview concerning one of her books. In the photo she was sporting a huge Huey Newton. She said there was just no way she could write that book with straight hair.

It's not JUST hair. If it's JUST hair then why not JUST leave it alone? Our ancestors did not reduce anything to JUST this or that. They understood the significance and spiritual impact of everything. But blindness leaves us free to do damage.

Sister River ... thanks for responding! :)

Yes, one of the first things i noticed, as my hair began to grow (after cutting it so short), was the way it grew in a crown ... i'm talk'n a real crown !!! I thought how if someone wanted to be taller, all they gotta do is let their natural hair grow! I know i've gone from 5'2" to about 5'5" already !!!! :)

Yes Yes Yes ... our hair grows up to the heavens !!!

I believe i saw where Brother Sefirot was the first one who said this here, i actually got it from him ... :bowdown:

Thanks for sharing!

:heart:

Destee

You are right, we do an awful lot of damage to their self-esteem and psyche by perpetuating a european standard of beauty. However, I fear that even if we stopped relaxing and pressing our little girls hair, they would still get the message that straight, long hair is the preferred standard of beauty in this society. The all powerful media perpetuates this message at every turn.

Sister C-Note ... Hello and Welcome ... :wave:

I don't believe i've had the pleasure of speaking to you yet ... thanks for responding in this thread.

Yes, the media has a powerful impact on all of us, our children included ... but no impact is as great as that which comes from our own parents. Don't under-estimate it. This is more evidence of the razor sharp precision of white supremacy / racism, it has us doing for them, what they can't really do for themselves. If Mothers and Fathers give their little Black girls wonderful examples of loving themselves, by actually loving themselves, and loving the way the Creator made them ... by actually wearing their own natural hair, and encouraging their children to do the same ... that powerful media ... won't be so powerful anymore.

:heart:

Destee

What I noticed also, is when the father is in the home, or active in their little girls lives, and reenforcing momma oppinions on how beautiful their daughters are, the more likely the child will except their own outer/inner beauty.

Sister Purple ... whew ... that's a whole nuther thread Sister ... yes yes yes ... little girls need their daddies too!

:heart:

Destee

I think that when black girls are little their hair is not nearly as scrutinized. I've seen many people of all races stop a black mother to compliment her on a "pretty brown baby with curly hair". I've seen this last from infancy up to even 5 or 6 years old. Its not until the cute little curls grown out fully that certain people seem to label it as "kinky" or "wild". The afro on a ten year old girl is not nearly as accepted as the "cute little curls" of a preschooler.

I think that's why some white women desire to father children with a black or hispanic man. They want their little girls to have cute little curls or waves, as long as they don't expand into anything "kinky" or "nappy" (an advantage most of us don't have).

As black girls grow older they need to be affirmed by those closest to them, especially other women who could potentially influence how they view their hair. Black men also play a big role in this. If a little girl doesn't feel that her natural beauty can be appreciated by the males around her, how can she be confident that it will oneday attract the mate of her choice?

Sister Sanaiah ... i agree that as long as the baby still has remnants of "baby hair" she's alrite ... but as you said, just as soon as she begins to grow out of that ... about 5 or 6 (maybe older) for some babies i'd imagine ... straight to the relaxer or pressing comb or something to "tame" her hair. Even if a parent waits until the child is about 10 ... that's still a baby ... she's still different than all other little girls her age ... she's the only one having to get chemicals or heat to change the very nature of her hair ... the impact is the same ... whether she's 5 or 10. She's clearly getting the message that the way God made her is not good enough. She must have something done to her hair, in order for her to be pretty.

The only reason an afro isn't cute on a little Black girl, the age you've described, is because we ... the adults ... have bought into the hype, little Black girls with their natural hair, are not pretty ... and we do all we can to beat that afro down. It's not the child doing this ... but it will be the child doing it to their children ... because it came from her parents. We're really just giving our children more things to overcome, as if they did not have enough already.

:heart:

Destee

I've managed to realize a humble, yet plausible perspective:

Again, america is where we learn to develop and to attempt to maintain "the advantage." The height, indeed the very pinnacle of this advantage, comes by way of financial superiority which has always been maintained and exemplified by-but not necessarily confined to-the rich white male. So, in contrast, the most vulnerable and disadvantaged Being-while still adhering to this “unconscious” paradigm-would prove to be the poor Black Woman. And we are so very unfortunately familiar with how many take advantage of sisters as such.

So if you look at the root and time from which perms derived, you have women who try hard to decrease their level of vulnerability and perceived disadvantage by going to measures unheard of to look "at least" like every other person/so-called race instead of Being special and unique. That is, if being different means also being the most disadvantaged. In the past this played out as only the "po' lil Black gulls" being laughed at for staying nappy. Leaving only the more "well-to-do" and "cultured" of us to the dreaded hair-perm, regardless of whether or not such women actually had more money. All that mattered was appearance. This has since evolved into the hair-weave, hair-piece, hair-wig, and still now, the harmful hair perm. Each screaming at the top of their lungs “look at me, I’m just like you now”-“You” being anyone but “ME”.

With so-called men this assimilation manifests itself as our only acknowledging our women if they resemble those of our oppressors. And even then it is often times with the same disrespect that they hold for their women/insignificant others. In either instance, the "Black" component loses its consciousness and mutates (over time) into a cast that both articulates our position in america and enables us to identify with one another’s shared psychologically oppressive american experience. Being a "Black" woman becomes the identifying stigma revealing a sisterhood of common understanding of what it means to be a "sister" trying hard but failing to fit into american society while being truly appreciated (again, at least appreciated as much as are all the other so-called races of women).

Regardless, the obvious/physical is just a manifestation of our want and desire to be like others and to be so unlike who we are.
I.e., our root issues stem from beneath the scalp.

Brother Sefirot ... yes ... the root of this is deep. I've read that in times past, after slavery, during jim crow ... the only way a Sister or Brother would be considered for employment as domestics ... they had to have done "something to their hair." It was the difference between eating and starving. Black women doing domestic work in the houses of white folk, had to conform. It's not a whole lot different from today. We still conform in many ways, in an effort to remain employed ... taking off all those things that make white folk feel uncomfortable ... that might remotely look like we're actually loving ourselves.

Yeah ... it's real deep. Thanks for sharing.

:heart:

Destee

Ok, I have a confession that I think many, if not most, brothers can relate to, but are probably scared or ashamed to openly share...

There was a time when almost any non-Black woman was more desirable to me than my own African sisters. This was because all I primarily knew were the processed hair (processed mind) unbeweavable sisters, and the unremitting self-hate of our hair by our women only made me have aversion to African women. This is because unconsciously the perm and hair weave strongly implies inferiority to other women (who just happen to have straight hair). It was confusing to me how our Black women were trying so hard to look like White women, but then got pissed at brothers for getting one. In fact, the attitudes of these Black women on the issue made me resent them for being so hypocritical.

I have never been with a pure snowflake, but I used to chase after light-skinned, mixed, or Latin women. The last 2 straight-Black sisters I was with hated themselves so much, but at the same time expected me to love them so much. It dawned on me that you cannot expect someone to love you when you don't love yourself...thus deepening my resentment for unbeweavable sisters. Don't get me wrong, there is no woman more beautiful than the Black woman to me. However, at the time, when I saw sisters trying to be sexy like a White or non-Black woman, it intrinsically made me look at these same Black women as inferior to the women they are using as their standard of beauty.

Just to be clear, if someone finds a natural affinity with someone of another race, then no one has the right to tell anyone they shouldn't be together. However, I think many people (both men and women) seek intimate partners of other ethnicities out of the psychological damage done to the African psyche. To be honest, probably the only thing that healed this damage was my immersion into Pan-Africanism and the study of African civlization before European enslavement. I still do not care for perms or weaves on my sisters, but there is no doubt that they are still the most beautiful women in the world. I have simply made a conscious decision that the sister I end up with most probably has to be natural (i.e. locks, afro, braids, twists, etc.). I'll tell you, the search for a sister like this is getting long and arduous, but it will be worth it in the end for me and my children.

Hotep...

Brother ShemsiEnTehuti ... thanks for sharing. I believe it's a vicious cycle, one feeding the other, to the point that we can't tell which is chasing which. Is it Black Men wanting that european look in a woman, or is it Black women wanting that european look in herself, so Black Men will want her (like he wants that european).

I feel so bad for young Sisters. Hair is only one area that has her on the bottom. As a result, she's willing to do almost anything to get and keep a Brother. If he wants someone who looks european, she's gonna do that. If he wants someone that will jump through hoops, she's going to do that. If he wants someone that will stick her head in the oven and turn on the gas, she's going to do that. The competition is so fierce for Black Men these days.

But i do agree with you in that, she must first love herself, and this begins when our Sisters are little girls, and if you look across the landscape ... as you have ... you'll see lots of usetabe little Black girls, that are now grown women ... still not loving themselves ... because when they were a little girl ... nobody really showed them how. Of course this wasn't intentional, but is the reality.

Notice ... no white person is doing this to us ... not at this level, not at this point ... we're doing it to ourselves.

A vicious cycle ... the razor sharp precision of white supremacy.

:heart:

Destee

Okay, since it is confession time. I have never wanted to be with a white man nor a light-skinned man. I have, however, wanted to be treated the way I see some white and other men treat their women--as in putting them on a pedestal, kill or die to defend them and their children, outward displays of respect (whether fake or not) for their women (as in not publicly criticizing their women (except for Eminem-types :spin: ) even though their women are far from perfect, etc., treating their women like "ladies" in public, talking about their women and children with pride in their voice and on their face, etc.), not abandoning their women and children, etc.

I don't think I've ever really heard a grown black man say out loud that he doesn't like a sistah with nappy hair, but I certainly heard my male cousins say it enough when I was a girl. What I, and other black women do notice and talk about among ourselves is the reaction of so many black men to the long, straight, or wavy hair of white or light women and to the light or white skin tone.

I strongly believe that if some black women who want to be natural knew EXACTLY which black men actually appreciate a natural woman, those women would do a lot to be around those men--that is if the men otherwise had something to offer. Black women get tired of perming, weaving, and even that expensive braiding--not to mention the time and money involved, but as long as the lighter longer-haired woman gets the attention she does from black males, this will continue.

I am natural because I like my natural hair but also because I just got tired of spending the money, time, and energy getting my hair done. At many hair salons, black women are held hostage by hairdressers because they know that once you get in there and your hair is loose and wild, you're not going to leave until you get your hair done. I got fed up with my hair dresser because EVERY time I went there, she would have me running errands for her like taking her sister to the train station, or running out to buy her lunch, or babysitting. On top of that, I'd still be there for about 5 hours and I still had to pay her and tip her! This was typical in all the shops in my area, so it wasn't like I could go anywhere else. Finally, I just stood in front of my mirror and learned how to do my own hair and now I get compliments on my nappy style just about every few days--from other black women and from white women and men.

Sister Riada ... thanks for sharing.

I already mentioned above, in a previous post, that it's hard to tell what is really motivating what ... when it comes to Sisters wanting to wear their hair other than the way God made it ... and Brothers wanting to bed women with stringy long hair. It's really a mess.

Again ... thanks for sharing.

:heart:

Destee

Okay, since it is confession time. I have never wanted to be with a white man nor a light-skinned man.


Black women get tired of perming, weaving, and even that expensive braiding


When you say "light-skinned" are you literally referring to "other" races of men...if so; I can't relate to that. I have dated Dark Black men while sporting natural and processed styles. Also, my current who is light is accepting of both natural and processed styles. Clarify please?

Preference is just that: preference. You just have to receive the right Brother who appreciates your hair "as is".

Are little Black girls ugly ... the way God made them?
Of course little Black girls aren't ugly.

I remember as a child there were 6 girls in my family, 3 natural, and 3 step-sisters. Naturally there was a division from that arrangement. Then, what killed me was my two sisters and I were always complimented for having that "good hair from they daddy"... while the other three step-sisters constantly were told "they momma need to go on and perm that kitchen". I don't know if my step-mother was envious or just plain over-whelmed with "doin heads"...but she eventually "slapped" super-perms on our heads to "level the playing field"...retrospectively speaking. Sounds ridiculous, huh? Well we all know once you relax, you gotta keep on doing so...and I did up until I was in my mid-teens...and on & off until I was 21. I certainly never felt I was "ugly" or "less than" with my natural hair...thanks to the reassurance from my Father. Now I view processed hair as just a choice/preference.

THIS IS AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION. I HAVE TWO BEAUTIFUL GIRLS AND THEY SURE ARE NOT UGLY. THEY LOOK VERY VERY DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER BUT THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL IN EVERY WAY. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN PERMING EITHER OF THEIR HAIR, I PERSONALLY LOVE NATURAL IT CAUSES THEIR TRUE BEAUTY TO SHINE.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n46/SWEETTEE_29/someofmyspecialities006.jpg
SO NO LITTLE BLACK GIRLS ARE NOT UGLY THEY ARE EXUISITE AND I LOVE THEM ALL. NAPS AND ALL

SWEETTEE, LOVE

I am not in favor of pressing or perming hair. But personally I feel that our hair can be styled in more ways than any other race of people. They all use some kind of chemicals on their hair to adapt to their own culture. Now little white girls and boys are braiding their hair and wearing dreadlocks, I see it everyday.

There's nothing wrong with complementing god's creation with one's own ideas of style and culture, it's been going on since the beginning of time.

I feel what you are saying, however, you may be underestimating the power and influence of African people. The only reason why these standards of beauty are even in the programming supposedly catering to us is because we let it. Do you remember the influence of Blacks in the 70's? We sported our afro, whether Whites liked it or not. Then, even African-American programming had afro sisters. Our hair has such preeminence that in the 70's, White folks ran out to perm their hair frying it sometimes irreparably so that it crinkled up into an afro-like ball on their heads. The primary problem is that we have stopped loving ourselves...


The primary problem is that we have stopped loving ourselves...


Hmmm, you've made some good points. Your last sentence has me thinking, why did we stop loving ourselves? What happened? Was there some massive backlash against being afro-centric? Or was the afro-centric movement really just a fad, something different for the moment that was replaced by the new
in thing? Did we really not believe James B. when he sung 'Say it loud, I'm Black and I'm proud'?

Sister C-Note ... Hello and Welcome ... :wave:

I don't believe i've had the pleasure of speaking to you yet ... thanks for responding in this thread.

Yes, the media has a powerful impact on all of us, our children included ... but no impact is as great as that which comes from our own parents. Don't under-estimate it. This is more evidence of the razor sharp precision of white supremacy / racism, it has us doing for them, what they can't really do for themselves. If Mothers and Fathers give their little Black girls wonderful examples of loving themselves, by actually loving themselves, and loving the way the Creator made them ... by actually wearing their own natural hair, and encouraging their children to do the same ... that powerful media ... won't be so powerful anymore.

:heart:

Destee


Thanks for the Welcome.

The primary problem is that we have stopped loving ourselves...


Hmmm, you've made some good points. Your last sentence has me thinking, why did we stop loving ourselves? What happened? Was there some massive backlash against being afro-centric? Or was the afro-centric movement really just a fad, something different for the moment that was replaced by the new
in thing? Did we really not believe James B. when he sung 'Say it loud, I'm Black and I'm proud'?


I think there were always remnants of self-hate within our populace created by slavery and Jim Crow. Evidences of it are "pioneers" like Madame C.J. Walker who became the first female millionaire by selling creamy crack to women which may have irreparably destroyed African women's pride in themselves. Then there are folks like Martin Luther King who made a speech telling Whites that if anyone's blood should flow in the streets, let it be "the Negro's blood". How much must you hate your self, or at least deem yourself seriously inferior, to say or do these things. Then considering the ill-focused Civil Rights Movement by King, we had millions of Blacks looking to sit on the toilet next to the White man in the same bathroom...WTF? Blacks abandoned their communities to live next to the White man, while Whites were consistent with their message that they didn't want to live or interact with us; moving from the city to the suburb, then from a suburb to another suburb. In the process of following the White man because his ice is colder, we never looked back at our communities and saw how they fell even further into desolation.

People whom call other people ugly ...



make themselves verry ugly .....


in the creatos eyes....





verry ugly......






Loveauroraflower:heart:

You know what-

I've enjoyed the discussion of this thread so much, that i've decided to reward the thread with a Documentary (for those who haven't seen it). Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17fEy0q6yqc

KD

I think there were always remnants of self-hate within our populace created by slavery and Jim Crow. Evidences of it are "pioneers" like Madame C.J. Walker who became the first female millionaire by selling creamy crack to women which may have irreparably destroyed African women's pride in themselves. Then there are folks like Martin Luther King who made a speech telling Whites that if anyone's blood should flow in the streets, let it be "the Negro's blood". How much must you hate your self, or at least deem yourself seriously inferior, to say or do these things. Then considering the ill-focused Civil Rights Movement by King, we had millions of Blacks looking to sit on the toilet next to the White man in the same bathroom...WTF? Blacks abandoned their communities to live next to the White man, while Whites were consistent with their message that they didn't want to live or interact with us; moving from the city to the suburb, then from a suburb to another suburb. In the process of following the White man because his ice is colder, we never looked back at our communities and saw how they fell even further into desolation.

Remember "hindsight is 20-20." IMO, Madame C. J. Walker and Dr. King should not be judged negatively by any of us in this day because these people lived and dealt during times in this country that were hell for every single Black person. Also, they couldn't predict the future.

It's so easy to sit around now on the internet and point out what they and other Black folks did wrong. What are WE doing that is so superior to what they did or are WE doing anything at all?

Peace and Blessings Family,

It seems that once a little Black girl comes out of the womb, one of the first things that takes place in her life ... is that she gets a perm or gets her hair pressed. Something has to be done to her hair, for her to be pretty. :(

Little white girls, little asian girls ... all other little girls ... come out of the womb pretty.

But not our little Black girls.

We rush them to the hairdresser, or the kitchen sink, to make what God gave them something else.

What does this do to a young girl's self-esteem ... her long-term view of herself?

What are we saying to our babies, by rushing them off to pressing combs and relaxers, at such a young age?

Are we perpetuating the weapons of mass destruction put on our people?

What are we saying to our sons, regarding beauty?

Are little Black girls ugly ... the way God made them?

:heart:

Destee
Would have to check to be sure but I don't think this would be the case deep in Africa (al least not with the children) so its the result of living in a euro centric nation.

this was real, i mean im waitin on a relaxer rite now...lol.

Of course little Black girls aren't ugly.

Sister Spicy ... i was being sarcastic ... of course little Black girls aren't ugly.

My concern though, is the major difference the way other little girls are allowed to be vs our little girls.

That difference can't be denied, so i'd like us to review the benefit(s) of it, and if we should continue doing this to our babies.

:heart:

Destee

THIS IS AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION. I HAVE TWO BEAUTIFUL GIRLS AND THEY SURE ARE NOT UGLY. THEY LOOK VERY VERY DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER BUT THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL IN EVERY WAY. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN PERMING EITHER OF THEIR HAIR, I PERSONALLY LOVE NATURAL IT CAUSES THEIR TRUE BEAUTY TO SHINE.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n46/SWEETTEE_29/someofmyspecialities006.jpg
SO NO LITTLE BLACK GIRLS ARE NOT UGLY THEY ARE EXUISITE AND I LOVE THEM ALL. NAPS AND ALL

SWEETTEE, LOVE

Sister SWEETTEE ... Those babies are ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS !!!! :love: Thanks for sharing!

It's a blessing that there are young Mothers like you, that can see the beauty in their babies, and see no need to put the "weight of the world" on top of their heads! Hey ... i just thunk of that ... "the weight of the world on top of their heads!" ... is that profound or what ???!!! :)

See ... when i was raising my daughter, i didn't know any better. Of course i taught her to do the very same thing that i did, which was getting a perm. Now that i know better, i'm so mad at myself! Now i've got to go back and try to un-do all that doing i did! Not only her, but my son too ... i have to un-do him too! He made more noise than anyone, when i cut my perm and started wearing my hair natural! :)

Very Very Good Young Sister Mother Nurturer of our Future! :toast:

Thanks for sharing!

:heart:

Destee

I am not in favor of pressing or perming hair. But personally I feel that our hair can be styled in more ways than any other race of people. They all use some kind of chemicals on their hair to adapt to their own culture. Now little white girls and boys are braiding their hair and wearing dreadlocks, I see it everyday.

There's nothing wrong with complementing god's creation with one's own ideas of style and culture, it's been going on since the beginning of time.

Brother MrRon ... where ya been ?? ... thanks for sharing.

:heart:

Destee

The primary problem is that we have stopped loving ourselves...


Hmmm, you've made some good points. Your last sentence has me thinking, why did we stop loving ourselves? What happened? Was there some massive backlash against being afro-centric? Or was the afro-centric movement really just a fad, something different for the moment that was replaced by the new
in thing? Did we really not believe James B. when he sung 'Say it loud, I'm Black and I'm proud'?

Sister C-Note ... it's much deeper than those things alone, could move ...

but with those things, and all that we have and know now ... we can do it! :)

:heart:

Destee

Thanks for the Welcome.

My pleasure Sister ... and thank you too ... for Becoming a Premium Member (http://destee.com/membership)! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

:heart:

Destee

I think there were always remnants of self-hate within our populace created by slavery and Jim Crow. Evidences of it are "pioneers" like Madame C.J. Walker who became the first female millionaire by selling creamy crack to women which may have irreparably destroyed African women's pride in themselves. Then there are folks like Martin Luther King who made a speech telling Whites that if anyone's blood should flow in the streets, let it be "the Negro's blood". How much must you hate your self, or at least deem yourself seriously inferior, to say or do these things. Then considering the ill-focused Civil Rights Movement by King, we had millions of Blacks looking to sit on the toilet next to the White man in the same bathroom...WTF? Blacks abandoned their communities to live next to the White man, while Whites were consistent with their message that they didn't want to live or interact with us; moving from the city to the suburb, then from a suburb to another suburb. In the process of following the White man because his ice is colder, we never looked back at our communities and saw how they fell even further into desolation.

Brother ShemsiEnTehuti ... you want to be careful when talking negatively of our Ancestors. Those who lived during much harsher times than ours, that laid the way for us to be here today. We can't honestly take one piece of their life, and try to hold them responsible, for the weapons of mass destruction put upon us, via racism (white supremacy). You aren't even giving them the benefit to respond, to defend themselves. That's just not fair or right under any circumstance, but especially toward our Ancestors, those who have gone before us.

Our Beloved Ancestor, Madame C. J. Walker, provided a way for our Ancestors to look the way white supremacy required them to look, in order that many of our people could work, eat, and live. You really can't be provided 20/20 hindsight, and then hold her accountable for all the results. C'mon now.

We owe our Ancestors much more than that.

The challenge is for us now, who are more aware ... thanks to our Ancestors... to stop doing our little Black girls this way.

:heart:

Destee

People whom call other people ugly ...



make themselves verry ugly .....


in the creatos eyes....





verry ugly......






Loveauroraflower:heart:

Sister AuroraFlower ... you know i'd not call our little Black girls ugly !!! ... :love:

Please don't think that Sister ... i love you ... :kiss:

:heart:

Destee

You know what-

I've enjoyed the discussion of this thread so much, that i've decided to reward the thread with a Documentary (for those who haven't seen it). Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17fEy0q6yqc

KD

Brother Cedric ... thank you so much ... :toast: ... it says it all ... :cry:

:heart:

Destee

Remember "hindsight is 20-20." IMO, Madame C. J. Walker and Dr. King should not be judged negatively by any of us in this day because these people lived and dealt during times in this country that were hell for every single Black person. Also, they couldn't predict the future.

It's so easy to sit around now on the internet and point out what they and other Black folks did wrong. What are WE doing that is so superior to what they did or are WE doing anything at all?

Sister Riada ... i agree ... :bowdown:

:heart:

Destee

Remember "hindsight is 20-20." IMO, Madame C. J. Walker and Dr. King should not be judged negatively by any of us in this day because these people lived and dealt during times in this country that were hell for every single Black person. Also, they couldn't predict the future.

It's so easy to sit around now on the internet and point out what they and other Black folks did wrong. What are WE doing that is so superior to what they did or are WE doing anything at all?

I hear what you are saying, but I am not necessarily judging them. I am only making a historically-relevant point about why (the title of this thread) "Little Black Girls Are Ugly". I realize that times were much different then, and they probably had to deal with things I can only imagine. I am only highlighting the ingrained self-hate, even in the people some of us deem heros, throughout history.

One thing I would like to say though is that we can't expect any real progress if we can't honestly address the mistakes we have made, no matter how sensitive the issue.

Brother ShemsiEnTehuti ... you want to be careful when talking negatively of our Ancestors. Those who lived during much harsher times than ours, that laid the way for us to be here today. We can't honestly take one piece of their life, and try to hold them responsible, for the weapons of mass destruction put upon us, via racism (white supremacy). You aren't even giving them the benefit to respond, to defend themselves. That's just not fair or right under any circumstance, but especially toward our Ancestors, those who have gone before us.

Our Beloved Ancestor, Madame C. J. Walker, provided a way for our Ancestors to look the way white supremacy required them to look, in order that many of our people could work, eat, and live. You really can't be provided 20/20 hindsight, and then hold her accountable for all the results. C'mon now.

We owe our Ancestors much more than that.

The challenge is for us now, who are more aware ... thanks to our Ancestors... to stop doing our little Black girls this way.

:heart:

Destee

As I stated to Riada, I was only demonstrating how this self-hate was ingrained in us thoughout our modern history in the Americas. I understand that circumstances were far harsher and dynamically different than perhaps I even realize. However, the other side of the coin is that I see sisters all over this country idolizing C.J. Walker, not because she provided means for African-American women/families to make a living, but so that they can escape their African hair. In fact, the majority of the time I hear Black women speak of Madame Walker, the African-American consciousness aspects of it are almost totally devoid from their thought processes, while almost entirely grateful to make their hair look white.

When it comes to Dr. King as an ancestor, is not brother Malcolm our ancestor as well? In fact, if you listen to Malcolm's speech "Message to the Grass Roots", he ridiculed King's movement staunchly. In fact, Malcolm X's predictions of such a movement have proven to be true. That is we will gain nothing more in the end (if not lose some), by trying to integrate/assimilate with Whites. There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason we went King's direction is because Whites do not want to see us as independent as Malcolm wanted. They were played against each other, only to exterminate them both in the end. Don't get me wrong, I definitely hear what you are saying Destee. But we are not going have any real progress for the immediate future if we cannot honestly address our mistakes of the past.

Peace and Blessings Family,

It seems that once a little Black girl comes out of the womb, one of the first things that takes place in her life ... is that she gets a perm or gets her hair pressed. Something has to be done to her hair, for her to be pretty. :(

Little white girls, little asian girls ... all other little girls ... come out of the womb pretty.

But not our little Black girls.

We rush them to the hairdresser, or the kitchen sink, to make what God gave them something else.

What does this do to a young girl's self-esteem ... her long-term view of herself?

What are we saying to our babies, by rushing them off to pressing combs and relaxers, at such a young age?

Are we perpetuating the weapons of mass destruction put on our people?

What are we saying to our sons, regarding beauty?

Are little Black girls ugly ... the way God made them?

:heart:

Destee


It is a blessing to have a sister like u whom has not fallen for the programming please keep speaking so the sisters will hear u and stop killing there divinity. We are the only ones on the earth whom has hair that grows up towards the sun reaching for energy .

As I stated to Riada, I was only demonstrating how this self-hate was ingrained in us thoughout our modern history in the Americas. I understand that circumstances were far harsher and dynamically different than perhaps I even realize. However, the other side of the coin is that I see sisters all over this country idolizing C.J. Walker, not because she provided means for African-American women/families to make a living, but so that they can escape their African hair. In fact, the majority of the time I hear Black women speak of Madame Walker, the African-American consciousness aspects of it are almost totally devoid from their thought processes, while almost entirely grateful to make their hair look white.

Brother ShemsiEnTehuti ... you don't see Sisters idolizing our Beloved Ancestor, Madame C.J. Walker ... what you see is Sisters idolizing white people. And yes, i suppose it could be said that our Beloved Madame C.J. Walker was also a victim of that. We are all victims of it Brother. I don't believe there is one of us, that is or has been totally free of the manifestations of racism (white supremacy). If i'm wrong, please correct me. As a result, we are all "guilty" to some degree. The challenge is not for us to point out the wrong in others, our Ancestors or otherwise, but to remove those manifestations from ourselves and encourage others to do the same.


When it comes to Dr. King as an ancestor, is not brother Malcolm our ancestor as well? In fact, if you listen to Malcolm's speech "Message to the Grass Roots", he ridiculed King's movement staunchly. In fact, Malcolm X's predictions of such a movement have proven to be true. That is we will gain nothing more in the end (if not lose some), by trying to integrate/assimilate with Whites. There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason we went King's direction is because Whites do not want to see us as independent as Malcolm wanted. They were played against each other, only to exterminate them both in the end. Don't get me wrong, I definitely hear what you are saying Destee. But we are not going have any real progress for the immediate future if we cannot honestly address our mistakes of the past.

Yes, of course our Beloved Brother Malcolm is an Ancestor too, and if i saw you or anyone speaking negatively on his life, i would speak on it. Yes, of course he is OUR ANCESTOR ... they both are ... and it is more evidence of how blessed a people we are, that the Creator gave them to us. Yes, they are ours. Let us lift up our people, always. Let that be our first inclination.

There is value in what both of them did. Great Value. I'm sure if they were here now, able to speak to each other, they would agree. I believe that with my whole heart. I do not automatically think the worst of my people, or perpetuate what i think is the worst in them (individually). If i speak on a Sister or Brother, i want to be saying good things about them. If i can't do that, i will try to say nothing at all. That's just me, i know, but it's a great way to provide evidence that some of the manifestations of racism (white supremacy) are in fact leaving me.

I will not harm my Brother or Sister ... and especially my Ancestors ... with words from my mouth.

:heart:

Destee

It is a blessing to have a sister like u whom has not fallen for the programming please keep speaking so the sisters will hear u and stop killing there divinity. We are the only ones on the earth whom has hair that grows up towards the sun reaching for energy .

Brother Emanuel ... thank you for the love, but i'm just like my Sisters, i fell for it too. It doesn't even look like a trap, until you're outside of it. When you're in it, it looks like that's where you're suppose to be, and you don't give it much thought. It's been so freeing to learn and love my own hair, the way God made it. I've only been wearing it natural since February, and it was a long 2 year journey prior to that.

I will continue to encourge us to think of our beautiful baby girls ... for that is where the seed gets planted ... in our babies.

Thanks for all of your encouragement Brother Emanuel !!! :love:

:heart:

Destee

Brother ShemsiEnTehuti ... you don't see Sisters idolizing our Beloved Ancestor, Madame C.J. Walker ... what you see is Sisters idolizing white people. And yes, i suppose it could be said that our Beloved Madame C.J. Walker was also a victim of that. We are all victims of it Brother. I don't believe there is one of us, that is or has been totally free of the manifestations of racism (white supremacy). If i'm wrong, please correct me. As a result, we are all "guilty" to some degree. The challenge is not for us to point out the wrong in others, our Ancestors or otherwise, but to remove those manifestations from ourselves and encourage others to do the same.




Yes, of course our Beloved Brother Malcolm is an Ancestor too, and if i saw you or anyone speaking negatively on his life, i would speak on it. Yes, of course he is OUR ANCESTOR ... they both are ... and it is more evidence of how blessed a people we are, that the Creator gave them to us. Yes, they are ours. Let us lift up our people, always. Let that be our first inclination.

There is value in what both of them did. Great Value. I'm sure if they were here now, able to speak to each other, they would agree. I believe that with my whole heart. I do not automatically think the worst of my people, or perpetuate what i think is the worst in them (individually). If i speak on a Sister or Brother, i want to be saying good things about them. If i can't do that, i will try to say nothing at all. That's just me, i know, but it's a great way to provide evidence that some of the manifestations of racism (white supremacy) are in fact leaving me.

I will not harm my Brother or Sister ... and especially my Ancestors ... with words from my mouth.

:heart:

Destee


Very wise words sister Destee!

This is something that has been bothering me lately. Excuse me for saying so but it's my opinion that this should be a written rule in this community. We have rules for respecting each other but some of the opinions here in regards to Our Ancestors is appalling at times.

At no time should we Speak Negatively about Our Ancestors. If we do, we risk Banishment.

jmho,
Om.

Family .. have yall checked out the Featured Video ... it's entitled ... A Girl Like Me ... and it is BEAUTIFUL young Black Sisters talking about the turmoil inside of them, as it relates to beauty standards being imposed upon them, from outside of them ... in addition, it talks about a new "doll test" being given to our babies ... and again, overwhelmingly, the babies chose the white dolls over the Black dolls.

Just in case you missed it ... here it is again ... :)


A Girl Like Me
17fEy0q6yqc


In many ways ... those same babies, are a reflection of the grown men and women also choosing those things "white" over those things "Black" ... for surely, we can't have allowed our babies to manifest such conditioning, and we be exempt from it ... could we?

:heart:

Destee

Sista Destee, I've read and all i can say to that is no man knows what a sista has to go through. I confess the most i know about a womans hair is i like to mess and up.:spin: Sisters aren't ugly just stupid perceptions are. Be Blessed and Prosper!

Sista Destee, I've read and all i can say to that is no man knows what a sista has to go through. I confess the most i know about a womans hair is i like to mess and up.:spin: Sisters aren't ugly just stupid perceptions are. Be Blessed and Prosper!

Brother RobBoy ... you're so sweet and wonderful ... i'm so glad we have your peace and wisdom with us! ... :love:

Thank you for the warm wishes, and of course i want nothing less for you and yours!

:heart:

Destee

Very wise words sister Destee!

This is something that has been bothering me lately. Excuse me for saying so but it's my opinion that this should be a written rule in this community. We have rules for respecting each other but some of the opinions here in regards to Our Ancestors is appalling at times.

At no time should we Speak Negatively about Our Ancestors. If we do, we risk Banishment.

jmho,
Om.

Brother O ... thank you for the kind words ... :love:

I understand and agree with you, regarding respecting our Ancestors, and would legislate us honoring them properly, if i could ... but i can't. Loving ourselves, our people, our Ancestors ... is something that must come from the heart, if it is to be done properly. We must each be moved, in our own time, inside our own selves, to fully overcome the conditioning of white supremacy / racism. It is happening this way for me, so i'm willing to let it happen this same way for others. At least i try ... whew, sometimes ... i do get krazee about my Ancestors! :)

Thanks for sharing your suggestions with me. Even if i can't do them, others may read, and be moved to do it for themselves!

Love You!

:heart:

Destee

Peace and Blessings Family,

This video is heart-wrenching, and speaks to the very title of this thread ... Little Black Girls Are Ugly.

Look what we are doing to our babies.

The video has the following text included at the end of it:

My first really big step toward self-degradation: when I endure all that pain, literally burning my flesh to have it look like a White man's hair. I had joined that multitude of Negro men and women in American who are brainwashed into believing that the Black people are "inferior" ... that they will even violate and mutilate their God-created bodies to try to look "pretty" by white standards. As he once said, "We hated our African characteristics. We hated our hair. We hated the shape of our nose, and the shape of our lips, the color of our skin ... This is how whites imprisoned us. Not just bringing us over here and making us slaves. But the image that you created of our Motherland and the image that you created of our people on that continent was a trap, was a prison, was a chain, was the worst form of slavery that was ever invented ... "

Malcolm X
taken from "Hair Story"

Beauty

2No-LTy3fzU

:heart:

Destee

I HATE what we are doing to our own babies.

Teaching them, by example, word, and deed ... that they are not pretty the way God made them!

I HATE IT I HATE IT I HATE IT !!!

:heart:

Destee

Yes to all of you questions Destee...ad it iis not only in our African Culture of people...it is all over this nation....

Trying to get employment with a more natural African presentation is so frowned upon....I speak from the personal side of this.
But that is only because we did not maintain the Afrocentric light of our spectrum....
When perm came out...it was obvious that thre was still insecurities other wise we would not hae to continue with this fight.....It's so amazing...one aspect o the world we live in......Something so simple yet still so complex as hair

Comment in Cue....


:hearts2:

I heard you Mama Destee...
Sorry for the DE~lay...M.E.

Pricess Platinmum~illity1
stirred the pot right back up

and this is what i up- chucked:


Mama Destee...

I talk about my "hair st8'tening experiences~! Finally!!!:qqb014:
PZ-nUod79ow


:hearts2:

Comment in Cue....


:hearts2:

I heard you Mama Destee...
Sorry for the DE~lay...M.E.

Pricess Platinmum~illity1
stirred the pot right back up

and this is what i up- chucked:


Mama Destee...

I talk about my "hair st8'tening experiences~! Finally!!!:qqb014:
PZ-nUod79ow


:hearts2:

Oh My...:SuN034:

I was suppose to add the youtube video which this vid is also linked too...

A Black Woman's Worth
9Ipv1FCLf1M

:hearts2:

I will be making my daughter watch...or else no phone...LOL!!!

tkxs and peace

I don't agree that black women get their hair styled because they think they are ugly. This is just part of our culture. There are many styles that black women can wear that are unique, and actually enhance their natural beauty. If we left everything to nature, than we would all be running around naked, with stinking breath and offensive body odor. What is uglier than a caucasian woman with stringy, unwashed and unstyled hair? Actually, our texture of hair lends itself to more styles than any other race of people, and we are always being copied by others, when it come's to style. We come in all shapes, sizes and flavors. That is just the way it is.

While we are talking about black women, I will comment on the other thread about overweight women. There are more of them than not, so that is normal for them, and the men seem to love it. The thin one's are not seen as wifey material by many men, they are seen as sex objects instead. This is all superficial stuff, where is the substance?

Yes to all of you questions Destee...ad it iis not only in our African Culture of people...it is all over this nation....

Trying to get employment with a more natural African presentation is so frowned upon....I speak from the personal side of this.
But that is only because we did not maintain the Afrocentric light of our spectrum....
When perm came out...it was obvious that thre was still insecurities other wise we would not hae to continue with this fight.....It's so amazing...one aspect o the world we live in......Something so simple yet still so complex as hair

Sister PLAT ... historically, Black Women (people) had to do "something" with their hair, in order to get a job and feed their Families. It's no accident that Pullman Porters or the domestic workers after slavery had pressed, fried hair. It was required. Even before that, during slavery, Black women (and men) had to cover their hair / heads.

http://destee.com/images/headwrap2.jpg

http://destee.com/images/headwrap1.jpg

If parents, particularly Mothers, wanted their children to have a chance at a good life, education, jobs, etc., they permed / pressed their babies hair. Which is what we see now, this continuation, what it is rooted in. We are now willingly perpetuating the racism historically put upon us.

You're right though, in this day and time, we should not be upholding this thing given to our Ancestors and us.

Thanks for sharing Sister!

:heart:

Destee

Comment in Cue....


:hearts2:

I heard you Mama Destee...
Sorry for the DE~lay...M.E.

Pricess Platinmum~illity1
stirred the pot right back up

and this is what i up- chucked:


Mama Destee...

I talk about my "hair st8'tening experiences~! Finally!!!:qqb014:
PZ-nUod79ow


:hearts2:

Sister True ... thanks for sharing !!!!

I could see the emotion you went through, just going back in your mind and revisiting this time! Bless your sweet heart! It gives me to know that however emotional it was for me, it's probably more emotional for some. Thank you for having the courage to go there, giving others the courage to do the same. Thank You!

:heart:

Destee

This is just part of our culture.

You say this as though being culture makes it okay. Slavery was our culture at one time as well.

:heart:

Destee

Destee, slavery was their culture, and we did not willingly participate in it. We've created hair styles as a part of our culture. I would rather look at it in a positive way. It's not a European thing, it's a black thing, and it's also one of the biggest enterprises in the black community today. The premise that we style our hair because we think of ourselves as being ugly, is wrong for most of us. Even the most primitive Africans embellish themselves with ornaments, paints, jewelry etc. Is that African or European?

I would rather look at it in a positive way.

Brother MrRon ... you're certainly entitled to look at the fact that little Black Girls, at tender, formative, young ages must have their hair chemically weakened and altered or hot, scalding metal applied to their scalp on a regular basis, in order to be considered pretty ... unlike any other little girls in the world ... and consider it a positive thing.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

:heart:

Destee

Brother MrRon ... you're certainly entitled to look at the fact that little Black Girls, at tender, formative, young ages must have their hair chemically weakened and altered or hot, scalding metal applied to their scalp on a regular basis, in order to be considered pretty ... unlike any other little girls in the world ... and consider it a positive thing.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

:heart:

Destee


Ase~O...I second those emotions/sentiments!

Now granted, I'm one to search for I find a 'positive' in all situations, you know, the "Both/And yet I am currently hardpressed (oops pardon the pun cause my hair WAS hardpressed and the lard sizzled on my scalp same way it does in the frying pan) to know....OHHHHHHHHHH MAMA.....I GOT IT....

I member 'you' also teached me....



"IF IT DON'T KILL YOU, IT MAKE YOU STRONGER"!!!!...



maybe that's the "positive" BE~hind dat....B.S!!!!!:cuss:
:?: is that it Mrron:?:
:hearts2:

I am very pleased to be a soon to be parent and was discussing the issue of hair just last evening.
I am the product of a White mother and Black father, and at an early age hair was an issue! I've laughed and cried at the mutual experiences from my other sisters. Here's my own confession: up until the age of 3 my hair grew untampered with by my parents. By the time I was 3 my mother described me as a walking hair ball, and being a white woman from a white community she had no idea what to do with all that hair - so she chopped it and kept it short! Which I absolutely despised, because yes my hero was, Lindsay Wagner, the Bionic woman, whom I would imitate running around the yard in slow motion.... (ugh).
The thing that I remember most and can laugh at gently now is wearing a white pillow case on my head so that I could feel what it would be like to have the wind blow through my hair like it did hers! Oh yes, I was determined one day that my hair would be long and it would blow in slow motion just like hers.
When I was around 12, a cousin on my father's side offered to braid my hair for me, my mother was absolutely set against it. She said it was unbecoming I guess even though I begged her to let me do it. But nope.
I was not allowed to relax my hair or put product in it really, so my short hair sat on my head in a rather funny way because it wasn't Black hair, it wasn't White hair, it was thick Italian hair with a partial kink/wave of it's own. My sister, well she was given smoother wavy hair that could be brushed out and had more "white" to it.
By the time i was 16 I would wake up at 6 am. to spend 1 hour and 1/2 trying to press my hair straight with a curling iron from the local drugstore. I had seen beautiful Black women singers like Sade, Tina Turner, etc.... and I knew if they could get their hair straight **** it, so could I! It took me a few more years to master the art and I was elated to find it not only could be done, but it could be done without chemical straighteners! Whew I thought I was in the free and happy zone. My father hated what I was doing, he said I was opting out for horse hair, but I really didn't care because what I wanted was a date! After years of being turned down at school dances, and mocked for having crushes on these silly little white boys, I wanted to finally be accepted to world of the beautiful people.
What happened to me was that I graduated, and upon graduation spent more time at local social functions with Black men, men who didn't look so favorably upon my pressed hair and light skin, and I saw gorgeous African hair dos, twists, braids, etc.... so you can guess what I wanted next! So off to the Black beauty parlour I went, and for 300-400 dollars later one could walk out with a full head of weaved braids! Cool but not affordable. The other thing I noticed was that wearing one's hair in braids for long periods of time can lead to balding and hair loss, which is certainly not desireable either. So, what's next I asked?

Today, I do almost anything to my hair depending on my mood, my finances and the social setting.
Someday's it's a natural curl/kink, for a formal Black function it may be cornrows/braids or a fancy weave. On most work days I'll soften my curls or make it wavy with a moderately hot iron. Depends. I haven't the skills to braid my own hair, and I've asked a girlfriend to teach me, because I am going to be the proud mother of a Black child. While I will want to instill a sense of natural beauty in my daughter, I wonder if she too will want hair that blows in the wind, and will I finally learn to decorate her crown in a manner befitting a young African princess?

Destee, slavery was their culture, and we did not willingly participate in it. We've created hair styles as a part of our culture. I would rather look at it in a positive way. It's not a European thing, it's a black thing, and it's also one of the biggest enterprises in the black community today. The premise that we style our hair because we think of ourselves as being ugly, is wrong for most of us. Even the most primitive Africans embellish themselves with ornaments, paints, jewelry etc. Is that African or European?


Putting chemicals in ones hair that can cause third degree burns to the skin, is not the same as hair adornments and jewelry....

And yes as a black woman you are considered UGLY when you we your natural hair by other black people, i know i had the experince.


Might i ask what exactly is a ''primitive'' African?

Destee, you just took one part of my statement and focused on it. You left out the rest. The premise of this thread, which you started, said that black girls style their hair because they think they are ugly. I disagreed, saying that it was part of our culture. You brought in the slavery issue, and asserted that it was part of our culture at one time. I said it was "their" culture, not ours. How does any of this address the issue of the young girl"s styling their hair because they think of themselves as ugly. BTW, I don't think they should use hot irons, or harsh chemicals either, if they are going to cause them harm. Fortunately for most of us, we do have options, and or not fooled into thinking that we are African. We are black people in America. Africans braid the hell out their hair, which some say is also harmful. Some don't do anything at all with it. Others are more modern and also use chemicals to embellish their appearance. Why do you have to think that they are trying to look white, when they are just enhancing their natural beauty. My wife wears her hair short without chemcial processing or hot combs. She use to wear dreads, which she cut, because they were hard for her to keep clean and tidy. This is the twenty first century, we are in America, and we can do a lot of things we didn't do a few hundred years ago, because this is a free country. Oops! Did I say free country on this site?

Destee, you just took one part of my statement and focused on it. You left out the rest. The premise of this thread, which you started, said that black girls style their hair because they think they are ugly. I disagreed, saying that it was part of our culture. You brought in the slavery issue, and asserted that it was part of our culture at one time. I said it was "their" culture, not ours. How does any of this address the issue of the young girl"s styling their hair because they think of themselves as ugly. BTW, I don't think they should use hot irons, or harsh chemicals either, if they are going to cause them harm. Fortunately for most of us, we do have options, and or not fooled into thinking that we are African. We are black people in America. Africans braid the hell out their hair, which some say is also harmful. Some don't do anything at all with it. Others are more modern and also use chemicals to embellish their appearance. Why do you have to think that they are trying to look white, when they are just enhancing their natural beauty. My wife wears her hair short without chemcial processing or hot combs. She use to wear dreads, which she cut, because they were hard for her to keep clean and tidy. This is the twenty first century, we are in America, and we can do a lot of things we didn't do a few hundred years ago, because this is a free country. Oops! Did I say free country on this site?

Brother MrRon ... quoting all that you've said this time ... we will still have to agree to disagree.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

I stated earlier in some thread some where about growing up and how I went to a private school with predominately white people or other, growing up. My mother was and still is a teacher and I was able to attend school where she worked for a good price and not that much debited from her pay check.

I have had a lot of good experiences growing up and just learning about people in general.

However, as a black girl, when all your friends are white or other with straight hair, you feel like that's what you should look like too. Especially when they all want to be princesses like Disneys, Little Mermaid, Snow white and all.

I remember pretending in my room to wear a t-shirt over my head and pretend it was long flowy white people hair. I had a best friend of mine who's parents didn't like black people and she told me about. One day in an argument, she wrote on the chalk board in the afternoon daycare that being black does matter. After that day my mom says that I told her that I wished my legs were white. I always noticed how I was treated in relation to other children. All my teachers were white women and the only black teacher I had was one in 7th grade and one in 12th grade in my whole school experience.
I struggled with who I was for a long time especially during middle school when girls are nasty towards you especially white girls. I eventually didn't care about being popular in highschool and hung out with people that I enjoyed hanging out with.

I can remember specific things said to me and feelings of self-hatred just like it were yesterday. I am still healing in many ways.

I had started at my first school in all black school and never felt anything was wrong with my appearance till I transfered to the school where my mom worked. I went from talking ghetto english to using proper diction all the time. I was also considered a "staff kid" where my mom was the only black teacher out of the whole school. This was in the 90's mind you. So I stayed at school with my brother in daycare until 6, when my mom got off work. So people viewed me in many different ways. At least adult white women. I still cringe at older white women today, because at that school there were teachers that made me cry cuz I couldn't figure out a math problem and yell at me or one time I got yelled at from the office lady for telling her that I lost my watch on the playground.

I don't know. I could go on and on and on. Depending on what kind of environment you are in as a black child, sometimes it can mean all the difference in the world. It's important to have other positive black people in your life,somewhere as a child, besides family members, so counter act what you face in the real world.

Blessings to all.
I really felt this piece.
-Crystal

I stated earlier in some thread some where about growing up and how I went to a private school with predominately white people or other, growing up. My mother was and still is a teacher and I was able to attend school where she worked for a good price and not that much debited from her pay check.

I have had a lot of good experiences growing up and just learning about people in general.

However, as a black girl, when all your friends are white or other with straight hair, you feel like that's what you should look like too. Especially when they all want to be princesses like Disneys, Little Mermaid, Snow white and all.

I remember pretending in my room to wear a t-shirt over my head and pretend it was long flowy white people hair. I had a best friend of mine who's parents didn't like black people and she told me about. One day in an argument, she wrote on the chalk board in the afternoon daycare that being black does matter. After that day my mom says that I told her that I wished my legs were white. I always noticed how I was treated in relation to other children. All my teachers were white women and the only black teacher I had was one in 7th grade and one in 12th grade in my whole school experience.
I struggled with who I was for a long time especially during middle school when girls are nasty towards you especially white girls. I eventually didn't care about being popular in highschool and hung out with people that I enjoyed hanging out with.

I can remember specific things said to me and feelings of self-hatred just like it were yesterday. I am still healing in many ways.

I had started at my first school in all black school and never felt anything was wrong with my appearance till I transfered to the school where my mom worked. I went from talking ghetto english to using proper diction all the time. I was also considered a "staff kid" where my mom was the only black teacher out of the whole school. This was in the 90's mind you. So I stayed at school with my brother in daycare until 6, when my mom got off work. So people viewed me in many different ways. At least adult white women. I still cringe at older white women today, because at that school there were teachers that made me cry cuz I couldn't figure out a math problem and yell at me or one time I got yelled at from the office lady for telling her that I lost my watch on the playground.

I don't know. I could go on and on and on. Depending on what kind of environment you are in as a black child, sometimes it can mean all the difference in the world. It's important to have other positive black people in your life,somewhere as a child, besides family members, so counter act what you face in the real world.

Blessings to all.
I really felt this piece.
-Crystal


What an experience. The damage this system does to us. What I do not understand is why do so many Black women think that white women are innocent and a friend. I have to ask sistahs. what the heck was the white women doing while you picked cotton and labored all day? She is the foundation of white supremacy. She gives the white child its first lesson on what whiteness is and what it means and how the white child is supposed to act with melanated people. A lot of us have dealt with the same type of teachers being that the public school system is dominated by white females. I know I did. In the public school system the white female is ensuring that her children will always have the advantage (especially her sons) by miseducating Black children (especially Black boys). That is logical. Do female zebras drop their children off to female lions??? Like the Ancestor General Julius Nyerere said, "Those who control the education of our children control our future".

Tranquility

What an experience. The damage this system does to us. What I do not understand is why do so many Black women think that white women are innocent and a friend. I have to ask sistahs. what the heck was the white women doing while you picked cotton and labored all day? She is the foundation of white supremacy. She gives the white child its first lesson on what whiteness is and what it means and how the white child is supposed to act with melanated people. A lot of us have dealt with the same type of teachers being that the public school system is dominated by white females. I know I did. In the public school system the white female is ensuring that her children will always have the advantage (especially her sons) by miseducating Black children (especially Black boys). That is logical. Do female zebras drop their children off to female lions??? Like the Ancestor General Julius Nyerere said, "Those who control the education of our children control our future".

Tranquility

Son of RA, I do understand where you are coming from. Being on these discussion forums has made me have to pull up some painful experiences as a child and anger that I have still having to "perform" in an all white environment. I am preschool teacher now, and I see lot's of black children always be drawn to me in the preschool, and I can relate to where they are, needing to see somebody that represents them.

I also ask my white-co-workers a variety of racial issues from time to time when trying to understand things about white folks or their culture. I recently talked a lot about DNA testing to them, some of these people I have known for a while now. I can tell that these are areas that they haven't been challenged in their thinking to talk about in the open, however, I go for the opportunity to educate or at least get them to think about things that aren't comfortable to talk about in public. Thus these topics of discussion are an irritation to them at times or I will hear a moment of silence before they give me an answer. Hee,hee,hee-of course I soak these moments in and love every minute of it, but that's besides the point.

I have come to understand that more and more no matter how nice or friendly another white person is, they can only understand so much, and their minds can only dig a degree of what you're saying because things are subtle and embedded in their culture that they don't recognize their own beliefs or believe that they are wrong.

I have come to a point in my relationship with close friends who happen to be white. Just one in particular. She grew up in Oakland,CA like me, and had mostly black friends and so in a lot of ways she can acknowledge white racism, things that she experienced others go through and everything else. However, she is still white. I can not expect her or any other white person to really understand my struggles. There are whites who can see the struggle, especially ones who are cultured minded, grown up in a urban environment or black neighborhood. This might also however be more the culture of California and the Bay Area, where I am from as well.

It's at those times when hitting a brick wall, that I reminded that we are different. As I see her not having to deal with certain issues that I will always have to face. As a child, you just want to be accepted for who you are. You don't fully understand why things are the way that they are. Being on these discussions in Destee has allowed me to move on and see things through many perspectives. Not so much because I wasn't aware of what already was, but I wasn't able to move on from that or knew how to.

It can be pretty painful at times however, knowing how to deal with your emotions and feelings in a positive way and knowing that there isn't something always wrong with you helps you to feel more secure about yourself. I appreciate posts like these, it has been real good for me.

Peace and Blessings,

Desert Storm

Destee, slavery was their culture, and we did not willingly participate in it. We've created hair styles as a part of our culture. I would rather look at it in a positive way. It's not a European thing, it's a black thing, and it's also one of the biggest enterprises in the black community today. The premise that we style our hair because we think of ourselves as being ugly, is wrong for most of us. Even the most primitive Africans embellish themselves with ornaments, paints, jewelry etc. Is that African or European?

There is a vast difference between the self decorative practices of indigenous people like Africans, and those in our community that are residually linked with hiding our African-ness. The original premise behind the styling is historical. How on earth can you blatantly dispute what actiivists from Malcolm X to Cress Wessling touched on in their examinations of our psychology.

We sometimes indulge in the most acrobatic of rationalizations in order to euphemise a self destructive practice to which we have become accustomed. The straightening hair styling of Africans in the diaspora was founded on the premise that it was more acceptable to whites than our natural look. It was founded on the premise that our natural look was ugly. The little girls who when shown African dolls and white dolls, chose white dolls because they were enculturated into thinking that white was clean and pretty, and that black was not. And as long as we continue to behave like ostriches when confronted with the truth, beautiful black little girls with their pert little noses, full lips and soft wollen hair will continue to run away from themselves in the mirror under the fostered impression that they are ugly.

There is a vast difference between the self decorative practices of indigenous people like Africans, and those in our community that are residually linked with hiding our African-ness. The original premise behind the styling is historical. How on earth can you blatantly dispute what actiivists from Malcolm X to Cress Wessling touched on in their examinations of our psychology.

We sometimes indulge in the most acrobatic of rationalizations in order to euphemise a self destructive practice to which we have become accustomed. The straightening hair styling of Africans in the diaspora was founded on the premise that it was more acceptable to whites than our natural look. It was founded on the premise that our natural look was ugly. The little girls who when shown African dolls and white dolls, chose white dolls because they were enculturated into thinking that white was clean and pretty, and that black was not. And as long as we continue to behave like ostriches when confronted with the truth, beautiful black little girls with their pert little noses, full lips and soft wollen hair will continue to run away from themselves in the mirror under the fostered impression that they are ugly.

Beautiful commentary ... thank you for sharing.

We sometimes indulge in the most acrobatic of rationalizations in order to euphemise a self destructive practice to which we have become accustomed.

Simply Beautiful.

:heart:

Destee

Peace and Blessings Family,

This video is heart-wrenching, and speaks to the very title of this thread ... Little Black Girls Are Ugly.

Look what we are doing to our babies.

The video has the following text included at the end of it:

My first really big step toward self-degradation: when I endure all that pain, literally burning my flesh to have it look like a White man's hair. I had joined that multitude of Negro men and women in American who are brainwashed into believing that the Black people are "inferior" ... that they will even violate and mutilate their God-created bodies to try to look "pretty" by white standards. As he once said, "We hated our African characteristics. We hated our hair. We hated the shape of our nose, and the shape of our lips, the color of our skin ... This is how whites imprisoned us. Not just bringing us over here and making us slaves. But the image that you created of our Motherland and the image that you created of our people on that continent was a trap, was a prison, was a chain, was the worst form of slavery that was ever invented ... "

Malcolm X
taken from "Hair Story"

Beauty

2No-LTy3fzU

:heart:

Destee
This discussion about little black girls reminded me of the video “A Girl Like Me” and the husband-and-wife team Kenneth Clark and Mamie Phipps Clark, African American psychologists and their 1940s experiments using dolls to study children's attitudes about race.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_and_Mamie_Clark

A Girl Like Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17fEy0q6yqc
17fEy0q6yqc

Are little black girls BEAUTIFUL? YES!:hearts1:

Brother MysteryDoors ... thank you for sharing this with us, for bringing this topic back to the top! :wink:

It's absolutely one of my greatest passions ... somehow convincing all of us to believe, that our little girls are BEAUTIFUL ... just the way they are, just the way God made them!

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee