http://destee.com/images/Budge.jpg

Sir Ernest Alfred Thompson Wallis Budge - (July 27, 1857–November 23, 1934) - was an English Egyptologist, Orientalist, and Philologist who worked for the British Museum and published numerous works on the ancient Near East.

Early life

E.A. Wallis Budge was born in Bodmin, Cornwall to Mary Ann Budge, a young woman whose father was a waiter in a Bodmin hotel. Budge's father has never been identified. Budge left Cornwall as a young man, and eventually came to live with his grandmother and aunt in London.

Budge became interested in languages before he was ten years old, but given that he left school at the age of twelve in 1869 to work as a clerk at the firm of W.H. Smith, he mostly studied Hebrew and Syriac with a volunteer tutor. Budge became interested in learning Assyrian in 1872, when he also began to spend time in the British Museum. Budge was introduced to the Keeper of Oriental Antiquities, Samuel Birch, and his assistant, the Assyriologist George Smith, and Smith helped Budge occasionally with his Assyrian, whereas Birch allowed the young man to study cuneiform tablets in his office and obtained books for him to read from the British Library.

From 1869 to 1878 Budge spent whatever free time he had from his job at W.H. Smith studying Assyrian, and he often went to St. Paul's Cathedral over his lunch break to study during these years. When the organist of St. Paul's, John Stainer, noticed Budge's hard work, he decided to help the boy to realize his dream of working in a profession that would allow him to study Assyrian, and Stainer contacted Budge's employer, the Conservative Member of Parliament W.H. Smith, as well as the former Liberal Prime Minister W.E. Gladstone, and asked them to help his young friend. Both Smith and Gladstone agreed to help Stainer to raise money for Budge to attend Cambridge University, where Budge studied Semitic languages, including Hebrew, Syriac, Ethiopic and Arabic from 1878 to 1883, continuing to study Assyrian on his own. Budge worked closely during these years with the famous scholar of Semitic languages William Wright, among others.


Career at the British Museum

Budge entered the British Museum in the re-named Department of Egyptian and Assyrian Antiquities in 1883, and though he was initially appointed to the Assyrian section, he soon transferred to the Egyptian section, where he began to study the ancient Egyptian language with Samuel Birch until the latter's death in 1885. Budge continued to study ancient Egyptian with the new Keeper, Peter le Page Renouf, until Renouf's retirement in 1891. In the meantime, Budge was deputed by the British Museum to excavate British Museum sites and establish ties with antiquities dealers in Egypt and Iraq, to both of which countries he travelled between 1886 and 1891. Budge returned from these missions to Egypt and Iraq with enormous collections of cuneiform tablets, Syriac, Coptic and Greek manuscripts, as well as significant collections of hieroglyphic papyri. Perhaps his most famous acquisitions from this time were the beautiful Papyrus of Ani, a fragment of a lost work by Aristotle, and the Tell al-Amarna tablets. Budge's prolific and well-planned acquisitions gave the British Museum arguably the best Ancient Near East collections in the world, and the Assyriologist Archibald Sayce remarked to Budge in 1900, ". . . What a revolution you have effected in the Oriental Department of the Museum! It is now a veritable history of civilization in a series of object lessons . . ."

Budge became Assistant Keeper in his department after Renouf retired in 1891, and was confirmed as Keeper in 1894, a position in which he remained until 1924, specializing in Egyptology. Budge and the other collectors for the museums of Europe regarded having the best collection of Egyptian and Assyrian antiquities in the world as a matter of national pride, and there was tremendous competition for Egyptian and Iraqi antiquities. They smuggled antiquities in diplomatic pouches, bribed customs officials, or simply went to friends or countrymen in the Service of Antiquities to ask them to pass their cases unopened. Budge was no more scrupulous than the others, but his exaggarated reputation for wrong-doing is more the result of the attacks by his professional enemies, such as Flinders Petrie and his many followers, than it is anything else.


Literary and social career

Budge was also a prolific author, and he is especially remembered today for his works on Egyptian religion and his now-dated hieroglyphic primers. Budge's works on Egyptian religion were unique in that he maintained that the religion of Osiris had emerged from an indigenous African people, a position which Petrie and others regarded as impossible, insisting that the entirety of Egyptian culture had been imported by Aryan invaders. His works were widely read by the educated public and among those seeking comparative ethnological data, including James Frazer, who incorporated some of Budge's ideas on Osiris into his ever-growing work The Golden Bough. Budge was somewhat interested in paranormal matters, and many people who were involved with the occult and spiritualism after losing their faith in Christianity were dedicated to Budge's works, particularly his translation of the Egyptian Book of the Dead, which was very important to such writers as the poet William Butler Yeats and James Joyce. His works on Egyptian religion have remained consistently in print since they entered the public domain, and this is most likely because Budge was, himself, a proponent of the liberalization of Christianity and devoted to comparative religions, and his works often appeal to those who are similarly motivated.

Budge was a member of the literary and open-minded Savile Club in London, proposed by his friend H. Rider Haggard in 1889, and accepted in 1891. He was a much sought-after dinner guest in London, his humourous stories and anecdotes being famous in his circle, and it is hardly surprising that the low-born Budge was fascinated not only by the company of literary men, but also by that of the aristocracy. He sedulously sought the company of the well-born, many of whom he seems to have met when they brought to the British Museum the scarabs and statuettes they had purchased while on holiday in Egypt. Budge never lacked for an invitation to a country house in the summer or to a fashionable townhouse during the London season.

Budge seems to have felt that he had something to prove to his contemporaries, for he published works at an alarming rate, often sacrificing attention to detail to quantity of publications, and though his books are widely available to the public, his work is widely considered today as unreliable, and usually misleading. Budge was knighted for his distinguished contributions to Egyptology and the British Museum in 1920, also the year he published his sprawling autobiography, By Nile and Tigris. He retired from the British Museum in 1924, and lived on until 1934, continuing to publish book after book up until the completion of his last work, From Fetish to God in Ancient Egypt (1934). In his will, Budge established the Lady Budge Research Fellowships at Cambridge and Oxford Universities, which continue to this day to support young Egyptologists.

The British Museum has published an official statement about Budge's works on their website, which can be read by clicking the external link below. The statement indicates that old rivalries die hard in the British Museum, and the presence of a number of old works by Flinders Petrie on the list of recommended readings might well suggest a source for the continuing hostility to Budge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._A._Wallis_Budge

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http://destee.com/images/Budge.jpg

Sir Ernest Alfred Thompson Wallis Budge - (July 27, 1857–November 23, 1934) - was an English Egyptologist, Orientalist, and Philologist who worked for the British Museum and published numerous works on the ancient Near East.

Early life

E.A. Wallis Budge was born in Bodmin, Cornwall to Mary Ann Budge, a young woman whose father was a waiter in a Bodmin hotel. Budge's father has never been identified. Budge left Cornwall as a young man, and eventually came to live with his grandmother and aunt in London.

Budge became interested in languages before he was ten years old, but given that he left school at the age of twelve in 1869 to work as a clerk at the firm of W.H. Smith, he mostly studied Hebrew and Syriac with a volunteer tutor. Budge became interested in learning Assyrian in 1872, when he also began to spend time in the British Museum. Budge was introduced to the Keeper of Oriental Antiquities, Samuel Birch, and his assistant, the Assyriologist George Smith, and Smith helped Budge occasionally with his Assyrian, whereas Birch allowed the young man to study cuneiform tablets in his office and obtained books for him to read from the British Library.

From 1869 to 1878 Budge spent whatever free time he had from his job at W.H. Smith studying Assyrian, and he often went to St. Paul's Cathedral over his lunch break to study during these years. When the organist of St. Paul's, John Stainer, noticed Budge's hard work, he decided to help the boy to realize his dream of working in a profession that would allow him to study Assyrian, and Stainer contacted Budge's employer, the Conservative Member of Parliament W.H. Smith, as well as the former Liberal Prime Minister W.E. Gladstone, and asked them to help his young friend. Both Smith and Gladstone agreed to help Stainer to raise money for Budge to attend Cambridge University, where Budge studied Semitic languages, including Hebrew, Syriac, Ethiopic and Arabic from 1878 to 1883, continuing to study Assyrian on his own. Budge worked closely during these years with the famous scholar of Semitic languages William Wright, among others.


Career at the British Museum

Budge entered the British Museum in the re-named Department of Egyptian and Assyrian Antiquities in 1883, and though he was initially appointed to the Assyrian section, he soon transferred to the Egyptian section, where he began to study the ancient Egyptian language with Samuel Birch until the latter's death in 1885. Budge continued to study ancient Egyptian with the new Keeper, Peter le Page Renouf, until Renouf's retirement in 1891. In the meantime, Budge was deputed by the British Museum to excavate British Museum sites and establish ties with antiquities dealers in Egypt and Iraq, to both of which countries he travelled between 1886 and 1891. Budge returned from these missions to Egypt and Iraq with enormous collections of cuneiform tablets, Syriac, Coptic and Greek manuscripts, as well as significant collections of hieroglyphic papyri. Perhaps his most famous acquisitions from this time were the beautiful Papyrus of Ani, a fragment of a lost work by Aristotle, and the Tell al-Amarna tablets. Budge's prolific and well-planned acquisitions gave the British Museum arguably the best Ancient Near East collections in the world, and the Assyriologist Archibald Sayce remarked to Budge in 1900, ". . . What a revolution you have effected in the Oriental Department of the Museum! It is now a veritable history of civilization in a series of object lessons . . ."

Budge became Assistant Keeper in his department after Renouf retired in 1891, and was confirmed as Keeper in 1894, a position in which he remained until 1924, specializing in Egyptology. Budge and the other collectors for the museums of Europe regarded having the best collection of Egyptian and Assyrian antiquities in the world as a matter of national pride, and there was tremendous competition for Egyptian and Iraqi antiquities. They smuggled antiquities in diplomatic pouches, bribed customs officials, or simply went to friends or countrymen in the Service of Antiquities to ask them to pass their cases unopened. Budge was no more scrupulous than the others, but his exaggarated reputation for wrong-doing is more the result of the attacks by his professional enemies, such as Flinders Petrie and his many followers, than it is anything else.


Literary and social career

Budge was also a prolific author, and he is especially remembered today for his works on Egyptian religion and his now-dated hieroglyphic primers. Budge's works on Egyptian religion were unique in that he maintained that the religion of Osiris had emerged from an indigenous African people, a position which Petrie and others regarded as impossible, insisting that the entirety of Egyptian culture had been imported by Aryan invaders. His works were widely read by the educated public and among those seeking comparative ethnological data, including James Frazer, who incorporated some of Budge's ideas on Osiris into his ever-growing work The Golden Bough. Budge was somewhat interested in paranormal matters, and many people who were involved with the occult and spiritualism after losing their faith in Christianity were dedicated to Budge's works, particularly his translation of the Egyptian Book of the Dead, which was very important to such writers as the poet William Butler Yeats and James Joyce. His works on Egyptian religion have remained consistently in print since they entered the public domain, and this is most likely because Budge was, himself, a proponent of the liberalization of Christianity and devoted to comparative religions, and his works often appeal to those who are similarly motivated.

Budge was a member of the literary and open-minded Savile Club in London, proposed by his friend H. Rider Haggard in 1889, and accepted in 1891. He was a much sought-after dinner guest in London, his humourous stories and anecdotes being famous in his circle, and it is hardly surprising that the low-born Budge was fascinated not only by the company of literary men, but also by that of the aristocracy. He sedulously sought the company of the well-born, many of whom he seems to have met when they brought to the British Museum the scarabs and statuettes they had purchased while on holiday in Egypt. Budge never lacked for an invitation to a country house in the summer or to a fashionable townhouse during the London season.

Budge seems to have felt that he had something to prove to his contemporaries, for he published works at an alarming rate, often sacrificing attention to detail to quantity of publications, and though his books are widely available to the public, his work is widely considered today as unreliable, and usually misleading. Budge was knighted for his distinguished contributions to Egyptology and the British Museum in 1920, also the year he published his sprawling autobiography, By Nile and Tigris. He retired from the British Museum in 1924, and lived on until 1934, continuing to publish book after book up until the completion of his last work, From Fetish to God in Ancient Egypt (1934). In his will, Budge established the Lady Budge Research Fellowships at Cambridge and Oxford Universities, which continue to this day to support young Egyptologists.

The British Museum has published an official statement about Budge's works on their website, which can be read by clicking the external link below. The statement indicates that old rivalries die hard in the British Museum, and the presence of a number of old works by Flinders Petrie on the list of recommended readings might well suggest a source for the continuing hostility to Budge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._A._Wallis_Budge

.
.


Can Budge be trusted?

Since he is dead I will say no.

However, Budge, along with Gerald Massey, wrote very extensively in developing a branch of study known as "Egyptology". I am sure that many "Black-centered" ideologists have rejected his work but there are few Black/African researchers who have written more sextnsively than Budge. I particularly find interesting his book entitled "Egyptian Magic".

Budge had his racial, religious and ideological bias but he was one of the view scholars who extensively studied the "Pyramid Texts" and sought to objectively document his findings. Like many researchers, Budge's works are filled with assumptionsand speculation but I do not find this to be any different than most "Black" historians who also have their subjective bias.

They smuggled antiquities in diplomatic pouches, bribed customs officials, or simply went to friends or countrymen in the Service of Antiquities to ask them to pass their cases unopened. Budge was no more scrupulous than the others, but his exaggarated reputation for wrong-doing is more the result of the attacks by his professional enemies, such as Flinders Petrie and his many followers, than it is anything else.

He's a known thief (of our people) ... and i've always heard ... if a person will steal, they'll lie.

Actually it goes ... if a person will lie, they'll steal ... whch makes our depending on him (or those like him) worse.

Who is this man, that he should be an authority on our Ancestor's thoughts ... and we believe what he tells us?

Again, we're primarily depending on white people, to give us our own people's truth.

Are we going from the frying pan, to the fire?

:heart:

Destee

Can Budge be trusted?

Since he is dead I will say no.

However, Budge, along with Gerald Massey, wrote very extensively in developing a branch of study known as "Egyptology". I am sure that many "Black-centered" ideologists have rejected his work but there are few Black/African researchers who have written more sextnsively than Budge. I particularly find interesting his book entitled "Egyptian Magic".

Budge had his racial, religious and ideological bias but he was one of the view scholars who extensively studied the "Pyramid Texts" and sought to objectively document his findings. Like many researchers, Budge's works are filled with assumptionsand speculation but I do not find this to be any different than most "Black" historians who also have their subjective bias.

What does living or dead have to do with trusting someone's work? If he were alive, you'd trust him?

I'll take the subjective bias of a Black historian, over a white historian's racial, religious, and ideological bias any day.

Perhaps the reason why there aren't any Black/African researchers who have written more on the subject than he has, is because he was given access first, many years before they granted us titles like African/Black Researcher Anthropologist.

In addition, few of us have had access to our own Ancestor's tombs, prior to their pillaging, plundering, and stealing.

At this point, we don't have a lot of choice, regarding accepting what they present as our Ancestor's whole truth.

:heart:

Destee

Hotep

Even though he is who he is...we can use what he exposes untill we learn to "Read, Write, Understand and Master" the "Real"...Medu Neteru our selves...until then we are at the lack of mercy in the case of our collective, historical enemies to have mercy on us...if that is what we choose for our self. Budge has the most masterful renditions of any europian who brought our Ancestors sacrit writings to Amerikkka for us to see and read to wake up our minds to transend what he called translation...read between the lines...People Know your Self*

Ase`

Note: The so-called "Roseta-Stone" was never compleatly translated. If you are sincere about Medu Neteru...why not go to a True scorce ware the subject is crystle clear. http://www.theearthcenter.com/

Can Budge be trusted?

Since he is dead I will say no.

However, Budge, along with Gerald Massey, wrote very extensively in developing a branch of study known as "Egyptology". I am sure that many "Black-centered" ideologists have rejected his work but there are few Black/African researchers who have written more sextnsively than Budge. I particularly find interesting his book entitled "Egyptian Magic".

Budge had his racial, religious and ideological bias but he was one of the view scholars who extensively studied the "Pyramid Texts" and sought to objectively document his findings. Like many researchers, Budge's works are filled with assumptionsand speculation but I do not find this to be any different than most "Black" historians who also have their subjective bias.
I agree with all of the above..but I would also like to add this in.

In terms of do re-search (ie to search again) and reading the works of different scholars ('black'/afrikan or 'white'/european or otherwise) I would suggest that we do not take their word as the gospel truth and such because of a few reasons being that:

1)One of the reasons they let their works be known is because they want other people to know and to become interested to come to their own conclusions.


2)They themselves are people so they may find something they do not like and will omit it, OR, they can actually impede the progress of a particular movement/organization b/c of who they are really working for (like W.E.B. Dubois did with the pan-afrikan congress:http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43492)

I say just take his data for what it is worth....just data...and let us see what we can draw from it besides what he wants to show us.

Budge has the most masterful renditions of any europian who brought our Ancestors sacrit writings to Amerikkka for us to see and read to wake up our minds to transend what he called translation...read between the lines...People Know your Self*

Everything we have been told of our Beloved Africa, from white people, has for the most part been a lie.

How are you determining that he has "the most masterful renditions" ... when we have never seen the original, and can't read it?

:heart:

Destee

I say just take his data for what it is worth....just data...and let us see what we can draw from it besides what he wants to show us.

Yes Brother I-Khan ... that is the key ... we must look way beyond what they say and show us.

:heart:

Destee

I agree with all of the above..but I would also like to add this in.

In terms of do re-search (ie to search again) and reading the works of different scholars ('black'/afrikan or 'white'/european or otherwise) I would suggest that we do not take their word as the gospel truth and such because of a few reasons being that:

1)One of the reasons they let their works be known is because they want other people to know and to become interested to come to their own conclusions.


2)They themselves are people so they may find something they do not like and will omit it, OR, they can actually impede the progress of a particular movement/organization b/c of who they are really working for (like W.E.B. Dubois did with the pan-afrikan congress:http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43492)

I say just take his data for what it is worth....just data...and let us see what we can draw from it besides what he wants to show us.

I agree with you sir. it is up to us to mainfest our own hidden intelligence (the amen). It is also very important to read several different authors on one subject in order to try to obtain a holistic pictured based mainly on his story or he said she said blah blah blah:bullseye:

This is why I was so happy when brotha Sam mentioned that Muata Ashby has a translation.

The best we can do is compare apples to oranges with no access to the trees from which they came.

The beauty of fruit is that it contains seed which can take its own root and grow into a tree.

Let's not devalue our ability to take what was and create what can be.

I agree with all of the above..but I would also like to add this in.

In terms of do re-search (ie to search again) and reading the works of different scholars ('black'/afrikan or 'white'/european or otherwise) I would suggest that we do not take their word as the gospel truth and such because of a few reasons being that:

1)One of the reasons they let their works be known is because they want other people to know and to become interested to come to their own conclusions.


2)They themselves are people so they may find something they do not like and will omit it, OR, they can actually impede the progress of a particular movement/organization b/c of who they are really working for (like W.E.B. Dubois did with the pan-afrikan congress:http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43492)

I say just take his data for what it is worth....just data...and let us see what we can draw from it besides what he wants to show us.

Brother, in all respect, I conduct my own research and to not take ANYONE'S word as the "gospel truth"!

Furthermore, it is suggested that the work of Budge be rejected because of his racial background, that is to say because he was a "white person".

Is it true that he was given access to the same material that others such as DuBois and Martin Delany or Noble Drew Ali had but somehow because of his racial makeup others were denied this same opportunity?

Sorry. I believe elsewise considering that Budge, Massey and many "theosophists" did not merely come across this material by excavation or happenstance. Much of this "knowledge" had been passed down over generations among African "secret societies" who GAVE EUROPEANS ACCESS!!

Much of the "knowledge" concerning kemet was available at Al Azhar, Sankore and the library/museums in al-Andulis prior to 1492. Writers such as Ibn Khaldun extensively wrote using the ancient mathematical knowledge learned in Kemet which passed from Alexandria to Sankore in Timbuctu.

Personally, I take Elijah Muhammad's word over Budge's but how many have even rejected the Messenger's notion of the ASIATIC BLACK MAN and "Yakub's History"???

What does living or dead have to do with trusting someone's work? If he were alive, you'd trust him?

I'll take the subjective bias of a Black historian, over a white historian's racial, religious, and ideological bias any day.

Perhaps the reason why there aren't any Black/African researchers who have written more on the subject than he has, is because he was given access first, many years before they granted us titles like African/Black Researcher Anthropologist.

In addition, few of us have had access to our own Ancestor's tombs, prior to their pillaging, plundering, and stealing.

At this point, we don't have a lot of choice, regarding accepting what they present as our Ancestor's whole truth.

:heart:

Destee

Sister Destee,

In all respect, I have extensively read Budge's works.....two volumes on Gods of the Egyptians, two volumes entitles "Osiris", his work on "Egyptian Magic", his translation on Hieroglyphics and compared those findings with various works by Gerald Massey, W.E.B. Dubois and Cheikh anta Diop. Thus, while I trust very few people, if Budge were alive I would "trust" some of his findings unless I found a creditable African historian to discredit his work and to date I have not found one.

Budge's work take hours of reading and decoding and the easiest thing to do is dismiss what one may not understand or comprehend.

Point me into another direction and I will look elsewhere but to simply dismiss based on the man's ethnicity I shall not do. I was not instructed to do so as many of the books within my library/personal collection were handed to me by forefathers who themselves found some merit it Budge's works and this includes the Black historian J.A. Rogers.

Peace...

Sister Destee,

In all respect, I have extensively read Budge's works.....two volumes on Gods of the Egyptians, two volumes entitles "Osiris", his work on "Egyptian Magic", his translation on Hieroglyphics and compared those findings with various works by Gerald Massey, W.E.B. Dubois and Cheikh anta Diop. Thus, while I trust very few people, if Budge were alive I would "trust" some of his findings unless I found a creditable African historian to discredit his work and to date I have not found one.

Budge's work take hours of reading and decoding and the easiest thing to do is dismiss what one may not understand or comprehend.

Point me into another direction and I will look elsewhere but to simply dismiss based on the man's ethnicity I shall not do. I was not instructed to do so as many of the books within my library/personal collection were handed to me by forefathers who themselves found some merit it Budge's works and this includes the Black historian J.A. Rogers.

Peace...

Brother Omowale ... why does the trust change, based on him being alive or dead? I don't understand that part.

I have not read any of his work extensively, and am just now being introduced to him. While my questions may seem elementary or troublesome, i think they're valid, given the history we know of these people. I'm sure they were much more openly corrupt to us, during those days, than they are even now. We know that even with television, and the first images depicting Africa and Africans being presented to us ... and they had the truth ... they chose to distort our people's image. They continue to do this right now.

To think that they would go into an African tomb, and bring back to us every single piece of truth and knowledge they were able to gleen from it, never distorting or deleting any of it, is foolish in my opinion. This is not to suggest that there is no good that can be learned from what they present, or that we should totally dismiss them ... i never said that.

In these discussions regarding Spirituality / Religion, much has been said about white people giving us the Bible and Christianity, and my main point here, is that they are giving us this too. What's the difference?

Most of the knowledge (information) we possess, comes from them, yet we wonder why we remain in the collective poor condition that we do. I think there's a clue in all of this.

:heart:

Destee

Brother Omowale ... why does the trust change, based on him being alive or dead? I don't understand that part.

I have not read any of his work extensively, and am just now being introduced to him. While my questions may seem elementary or troublesome, i think they're valid, given the history we know of these people. I'm sure they were much more openly corrupt to us, during those days, than they are even now. We know that even with television, and the first images depicting Africa and Africans being presented to us ... and they had the truth ... they chose to distort our people's image. They continue to do this right now.

To think that they would go into an African tomb, and bring back to us every single piece of truth and knowledge they were able to gleen from it, never distorting or deleting any of it, is foolish in my opinion. This is not to suggest that there is no good that can be learned from what they present, or that we should totally dismiss them ... i never said that.

In these discussions regarding Spirituality / Religion, much has been said about white people giving us the Bible and Christianity, and my main point here, is that they are giving us this too. What's the difference?

Most of the knowledge (information) we possess, comes from them, yet we wonder why we remain in the collective poor condition that we do. I think there's a clue in all of this.

:heart:

Destee

that is why we must continue to embrace and digest material produced by our own. while the subject matter may have errors because all schloars of history are guessing at best we donot have to deal with bias summations produced by the jealous white man.

Brother Omowale ... why does the trust change, based on him being alive or dead? I don't understand that part.

I have not read any of his work extensively, and am just now being introduced to him. While my questions may seem elementary or troublesome, i think they're valid, given the history we know of these people. I'm sure they were much more openly corrupt to us, during those days, than they are even now. We know that even with television, and the first images depicting Africa and Africans being presented to us ... and they had the truth ... they chose to distort our people's image. They continue to do this right now.

To think that they would go into an African tomb, and bring back to us every single piece of truth and knowledge they were able to gleen from it, never distorting or deleting any of it, is foolish in my opinion. This is not to suggest that there is no good that can be learned from what they present, or that we should totally dismiss them ... i never said that.

In these discussions regarding Spirituality / Religion, much has been said about white people giving us the Bible and Christianity, and my main point here, is that they are giving us this too. What's the difference?

Most of the knowledge (information) we possess, comes from them, yet we wonder why we remain in the collective poor condition that we do. I think there's a clue in all of this.

:heart:

Destee

In all respect, I do not wish to debate the point. While I may not trust Budge, the individual, this does not mean that I have reason to dis-trust SOME of his historical research, particularly if other African historians such as DuBois and Diop did not find error in his works. Both men, did in fact, build upon some of his findings.

Personally, I am not concerned with white people "distorting our image". I am more concerned with Black people subjectively distorting the truth and romanticizing African history, relegating fact to fiction and mythology and failing to view African history with the objectivity necessary to learn from that history and correct present errors which inhibit our collective advancement.

Sister Destee, you openly have stated that you have "not read any of his work extensively". However, I can make no such claim as not openly have I read his works extensively but have combined this research with my own family and geneaological research, building upon the works on Elders in my family who have passed to me works by Budge, Manly Hall, Gerald Massey and H.P. Blavatsky. I have learned in this process to read between the lines and have developed the power of discernment to determine what is credible and what is not.

And because of my "upbrining" I am also keenly aware that just because an author is "Black" does not necessarily mean that their work is credible.

Peace....

that is why we must continue to embrace and digest material produced by our own. while the subject matter may have errors because all schloars of history are guessing at best we donot have to deal with bias summations produced by the jealous white man.

Interesting.....

Why not embrace and digest material "produced by our own" as well as that compiled "by the enemy"??

What better way is there to DISARM "the enemy" except by seizing what they themselves have taken and turned into a STOLEN LEGACY??!!

In all respect, I do not wish to debate the point.

I couldn't tell, since you're posting in the thread ... my bad.

:heart:

Destee

Everything we have been told of our Beloved Africa, from white people, has for the most part been a lie.

How are you determining that he has "the most masterful renditions" ... when we have never seen the original, and can't read it?

:heart:

Destee


Hotep

In this particular instance...only in answer to the original question...the total point of view is offered and "Not" just the small part here above. It is by no means suggested that any one should only settle for this mans works. It is much better to seek the "Real" answers from Scholors among us who are so-called African...who the Sacrit Writings are ment for and who hold the "Keys" to un-lock the "Secrets" that have been kept from us for soo long...in their "Genitic-Bank" as we "All" do once we have heard and seen the "Real-Truth" of what "Our" ancestors are say-ing to "Us". The Original is still in (Merita) Kemet...and also among the Dogon Spiritual Masters who are the same school of thought as the Ancestors of thousands of years ago..."He" teaches it, Reads it and Speaks it "Fluintly" and "We" can learn how to also! Please understand this! http://www.theearthcenter.com/

At one time...not long ago...for those old enough to remember...Budge was about the only scorce and most masterful work done by any one that most of us even knew about. But today...there are much better works on the subject of (Merita) or so-called Africa...Kemet history with out the obviours europian distortions.

Also...we must know that at one time..."We" call the "Earth" KEMET and not just the small part that we know as (Egypt today) Kemet. What is known as Kemet to most of us today...was just the "CAPITAL". If you already have his works (Budge) it can be a scorce of referance...but (you don't have to use it if you don't want to) as we learn more and more and more...we will come to learn that any thing a "Europian" says must be weight in the light of our own Scholors today. So taking the whole statement in concideration...this is what is ment by "Reading Between the Lines". Scholors like Dr.Yosef Ben Jacanan, Dr. Chiek Anta Diop and others of the highest level of Scholorship on earth sometime refers to the Europian Budge's works...but they are not by no means following him.

Ase`

Note:
The only reason the Scacrit Writings (Coming forth by Day) "The Book of Life" are called "The Book of the Dead" is because the europians who found it under the "heads of the mummies" they ware "Robbing" called it that...Book of the Dead. They...Budge included never had and still don't have the real understanding because it was not ment for them to understand...even if they could.

Hotep

In this particular instance...only in answer to the original question...the total point of view is offered and "Not" just the small part here above. It is by no means suggested that any one should only settle for this mans works. It is much better to seek the "Real" answers from Scholors among us who are so-called African...who the Sacrit Writings are ment for and who hold the "Keys" to un-lock the "Secrets" that have been kept from us for soo long...in their "Genitic-Bank" as we "All" do once we have heard and seen the "Real-Truth" of what "Our" ancestors are say-ing to "Us". The Original is still in (Merita) Kemet...and also among the Dogon Spiritual Masters who are the same school of thought as the Ancestors of thousands of years ago..."He" teaches it, Reads it and Speaks it "Fluintly" and "We" can learn how to also! Please understand this! http://www.theearthcenter.com/

At one time...not long ago...for those old enough to remember...Budge was about the only scorce and most masterful work done by any one that most of us even knew about. But today...there are much better works on the subject of (Merita) or so-called Africa...Kemet history with out the obviours europian distortions.

Also...we must know that at one time..."We" call the "Earth" KEMET and not just the small part that we know as (Egypt today) Kemet. What is known as Kemet to most of us today...was just the "CAPITAL". If you already have his works (Budge) it can be a scorce of referance...but (you don't have to use it if you don't want to) as we learn more and more and more...we will come to learn that any thing a "Europian" says must be weight in the light of our own Scholors today. So taking the whole statement in concideration...this is what is ment by "Reading Between the Lines". Scholors like Dr.Yosef Ben Jacanan, Dr. Chiek Anta Diop and others of the highest level of Scholorship on earth sometime refers to the Europian Budge's works...but they are not by no means following him.

Ase`

Note:
The only reason the Scacrit Writings (Coming forth by Day) "The Book of Life" are called "The Book of the Dead" is because the europians who found it under the "heads of the mummies" they ware "Robbing" called it that...Book of the Dead. They...Budge included never had and still don't have the real understanding because it was not ment for them to understand...even if they could.

Thank you Brother Moorfius ... your words calm my Spirit ... :bowdown:

:heart:

Destee

Interesting.....

Why not embrace and digest material "produced by our own" as well as that compiled "by the enemy"??

What better way is there to DISARM "the enemy" except by seizing what they themselves have taken and turned into a STOLEN LEGACY??!!

peace brother, as i do enjoy dialouging with you

I have spent most of my life trying to pick throught thier lies and decet. I have been fortunate to start reading material produced by my brothers and sisters only three years ago. during that elasped time i have been on a feeding frenzy for knowlegde from my on people. we are fortuante enough as brother moorfus has stated to have black scholars that have stepped up since the products of mr budge has been presented. The white man has exhibited time and time again and inherited dis like for any postive kemetic contributions to the world. I cannot tell if there hearts are true so i would rather not botherd because the neteru has made it possible for me to not have to .by giving us our own loving and trusting scholars to learn from.

Well, if we eliminate Budge then we are lost because when you truly look at the list of people that had or have access to these Egyptian writings and antiquities and have the authority to write books and translate the information from the original scrolls to English we are reduced to an extremity short list.

Budge is about the only authentic translations that can continue to be purchased today. I personally have several of his books and will be the first to say that much of his works if not all are plagiarized in newly found so-called Kemet works being produced today.

Budge is about the only author that translated Egyptian scrolls that we no longer have access to with the level of detail he presents. At this moment I have started reading “Legends of the Egyptian Gods”. No other books have this level of detail even to the point of the original glyphs in which Budge translated to English.

I would say no white Egyptologist can be 100% trusted but what other choices do we have as a people?

I would say no white Egyptologist can be 100% trusted but what other choices do we have as a people?

We can study the disciplines that allow us to become primary researchers ourselves and do primary research. That way we don't have to depend on anybody else to tell us our Truestory. 100% of what is posted on these boards is secondary and tertiary research (quoting the results and conclusions of someone else's research [not a crime, by the way]). An example of primary research in this case would be translating various Kemetic texts (such as the Pert em Heru--misnomered "The Book of the Dead") on our own after studying the language. We also need to study archaeology, anthropology, linguistics and historical research methods and apply these disciplines to our research of ancient Afrikan civilizations. We are also going to have to become intimately familiar with traditional Afrikan cultures by studying the language and practicing the spirituality of those cultures. That's what it's going to take to end our dependence on others, to be able to teach our Truestory to our people, and to be able to defend our conclusions against detractors (nothing like being able to tell a lying, deceiving egyptologist WHY the word "Kemet" means "Black Nation" and couldn't possibly mean "the Black land as in the color of the soil" as they claim it does. That's what Cheikh Anta Diop, his protege Theophile Obenga, Chancellor Williams, and others have done.

We can study the disciplines that allow us to become primary researchers ourselves and do primary research. That way we don't have to depend on anybody else to tell us our Truestory. 100% of what is posted on these boards is secondary and tertiary research (quoting the results and conclusions of someone else's research [not a crime, by the way]). An example of primary research in this case would be translating various Kemetic texts (such as the Pert em Heru--misnomered "The Book of the Dead") on our own after studying the language. We also need to study archaeology, anthropology, linguistics and historical research methods and apply these disciplines to our research of ancient Afrikan civilizations. We are also going to have to become intimately familiar with traditional Afrikan cultures by studying the language and practicing the spirituality of those cultures. That's what it's going to take to end our dependence on others, to be able to teach our Truestory to our people, and to be able to defend our conclusions against detractors (nothing like being able to tell a lying, deceiving egyptologist WHY the word "Kemet" means "Black Nation" and couldn't possibly mean "the Black land as in the color of the soil" as they claim it does. That's what Cheikh Anta Diop, his protege Theophile Obenga, Chancellor Williams, and others have done.

this idea is good for the long term...but for now most people here on the forums cannot do it. wouldnt the best solution be to compare all the translations we have? we can start with budge and faulkner then those who have muata ashby can tell us how it compares...howbout that to get started?

Originally Posted by omowalejabali
Interesting.....

Why not embrace and digest material "produced by our own" as well as that compiled "by the enemy"??

What better way is there to DISARM "the enemy" except by seizing what they themselves have taken and turned into a STOLEN LEGACY??!!

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that we "embrace" their works, but we should be at least aware enough to give answer when asked what's the difference.

this idea is good for the long term...but for now most people here on the forums cannot do it. wouldnt the best solution be to compare all the translations we have? we can start with budge and faulkner then those who have muata ashby can tell us how it compares...howbout that to get started?

For those who want and need a "quick hit" I recommend Maulana Karenga's "Book of Coming Forth by Day: The Ethics of the Declarations of Innocence" as a general introduction, and then read Ashby's translation of the Pert em Heru, which is the most up to date, and is done from the perspective of one who actually lives what he writes about. "Metu Neter" vols 1 & 2 by Ra Un Nefer Amen while not a translation of the Pert em Heru has many practical applications to help one live a better life.

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that we "embrace" their works, but we should be at least aware enough to give answer when asked what's the difference.


Sister River,

Personally, I believe in taking within my posession any knowledge than can assist me in conducting my own research. Quite interestingly, in light of this subject I dug deeper into Dr. Diop's "The African Origin of Civilization" and found a few references to Mr. Budge where Dr. Diop quoted him on the subject of "Osiris Ani" and digging deeper noticed that Diop has included within the text a very extensive section entitled "Brief Biological Notes" from which he quoted and referenced rather extensively. This information is found on page 199,under the subject "The Origin of the Agni".

If Diop saw no reason to disregard Budge on this subject then I see no reason why I should do otherwise. Especially when others in these threads are posting what I view as mis-information on the very same subject and providing no references to substantiate their various positions, suggesting that I accept their subjectivity in light of objective inquiry.

Sorry, I decline to do so...

Peace...

For those who want and need a "quick hit" I recommend Maulana Karenga's "Book of Coming Forth by Day: The Ethics of the Declarations of Innocence" as a general introduction, and then read Ashby's translation of the Pert em Heru, which is the most up to date, and is done from the perspective of one who actually lives what he writes about. "Metu Neter" vols 1 & 2 by Ra Un Nefer Amen while not a translation of the Pert em Heru has many practical applications to help one live a better life.

hahaha!

"Maulana Karenga"...??

case closed....

hahaha!

"Maulana Karenga"...??

case closed....

Out of curiosity, why?

hahaha!

"Maulana Karenga"...??

case closed....

And what case would that be?

Well, if we eliminate Budge then we are lost because when you truly look at the list of people that had or have access to these Egyptian writings and antiquities and have the authority to write books and translate the information from the original scrolls to English we are reduced to an extremity short list.

This is faulty logic. If Budge is all that we have to go by, then likewise we should only be going by King James as the sole expert on the Bible.

Budge is about the only authentic translations that can continue to be purchased today. I personally have several of his books and will be the first to say that much of his works if not all are plagiarized in newly found so-called Kemet works being produced today.

I'll be the first to admit that Budge is used in a referential sense, much the same way that King James is used as a template for reference with Biblical study.

Budge is about the only author that translated Egyptian scrolls that we no longer have access to with the level of detail he presents. At this moment I have started reading “Legends of the Egyptian Gods”. No other books have this level of detail even to the point of the original glyphs in which Budge translated to English.

FALSE.

MUATA ASHBY has an extremely extensive library of books, that work totally independent from anything that Budge had published.

The same holds true for OBENGA, who has published a heiroglyphic dictionary, under the auspices of the DIOP institute.

Naturally, both of these authors are Black African scholars (from the mother continent, no less).

I would say no white Egyptologist can be 100% trusted but what other choices do we have as a people?

See above.

I personally have no problem using BUDGE's translation and info strictly as reference material--much in the way that I use King Jame's Bible and related materials.

This is because both of those were among the first and most prevelant translations to be presented to the world.

However, just as with King Jame's version, there are numerous errors that are blatant within BUDGE's version of the Pert.

For example, on many lines, he leaves out entire translations, opting instead to put a "............" under the Kemetic verse. This clearly demonstrates his lack of understanding of the Kemau language.

The most popular translation, does not equate to being the most accurate.

Also, BUDGE has demonstrated on numerous occasions, but within the perameters of his own work, and by way of accusations on the part of his contemporaries, to have been extremely racist (as is/was typical of European scholars of his time).

I have referenced the "half Negro Savage" statment he had made about the Kemetians, in his 2-volume book "GODS OF THE EGYPTIANS". This is clearly a substantial reason why we should not take his translation as a "Gospel" (no pun intended).

PEACE

Brother, in all respect, I conduct my own research and to not take ANYONE'S word as the "gospel truth"!

Furthermore, it is suggested that the work of Budge be rejected because of his racial background, that is to say because he was a "white person".

Is it true that he was given access to the same material that others such as DuBois and Martin Delany or Noble Drew Ali had but somehow because of his racial makeup others were denied this same opportunity?

Sorry. I believe elsewise considering that Budge, Massey and many "theosophists" did not merely come across this material by excavation or happenstance. Much of this "knowledge" had been passed down over generations among African "secret societies" who GAVE EUROPEANS ACCESS!!

Much of the "knowledge" concerning kemet was available at Al Azhar, Sankore and the library/museums in al-Andulis prior to 1492. Writers such as Ibn Khaldun extensively wrote using the ancient mathematical knowledge learned in Kemet which passed from Alexandria to Sankore in Timbuctu.

Personally, I take Elijah Muhammad's word over Budge's but how many have even rejected the Messenger's notion of the ASIATIC BLACK MAN and "Yakub's History"???
I see what you are mentioning Omo and I am not going to take a side as to completely disregarding him and/or completely accepting what he is saying simply because he is now 'dead' and we cannot ask him any questions. Our 'trust' should not be formulated for any one character until we have seen the subject in question from a '360' degree perspective. I too have and still do listen to men like Elijah Muhammed and Vusamazulu Mutwa (azanian) .amongst others, and I like to compare their 'predictions' and ourstorical data to the data of the 'established' researchers,and sometimes the 'established' fall behind significantly..

I also am glad that you mentioned that a number of afrikans gave europeans access to our works since that is a message I am hearing from Drusilla Dunjee Houston....who may have passed budge in her works if she had lived longer....



I also suggest that we make a forum(or thread) section dedicated to drawing parallels in ourstory and the history of 'others' just to get a 'holistic' view of things....such as the Enuma Elish and its connections to other 'holy books',the Babylonians,and their connections to the 'Cu****es', the 'great deluge' and stories from all over the world of the event, and ancient 'prophecies' that span all people and continents....such a forum(or thread) section would be one that 'integrates' (ie not amalgamates, one being 'eaten' by the other) the world and not just a limiting viewpoint (ie spritual,historical,social,) but examines all of them and their interrelation...I plan on creating such a thread and I invite everyone to contribute, bring the hindu,kemetian,cu****e,chinese,japanese,roman,gree k, native american etc works so that we may see this world as it once was and therefore predict where it will be.......


back to budge:
We should just use him and any others,no matter their makeup, as research assets/perspectives and not actual sources of information that we may use. It is very important that we get an all round view of this particular subject from all different types of people being that not all of them will agree on one particular thing.we should NOT exclude him,but we should compare him to others and see what happens, after all, he(and any other researchers) is only human.

Peace,

Let's not forget that Budge tried to argue in "Osiris and the Egyptian Resurrection" that, since Africans have a natural propensity for cannibalism, that the story of Ausar cleaning men up from this habit was an evidence that the Kamau were African.

....

:explode:

Okay Family ... it seems the general concensus is that we can trust this man's work, to some degree or another, since we don't have a lot of other choices.

Alright ... i'll go with that.

Thanks everyone who has shared thus far.

:heart:

Destee

We can study the disciplines that allow us to become primary researchers ourselves and do primary research. That way we don't have to depend on anybody else to tell us our Truestory. 100% of what is posted on these boards is secondary and tertiary research (quoting the results and conclusions of someone else's research [not a crime, by the way]). An example of primary research in this case would be translating various Kemetic texts (such as the Pert em Heru--misnomered "The Book of the Dead") on our own after studying the language. We also need to study archaeology, anthropology, linguistics and historical research methods and apply these disciplines to our research of ancient Afrikan civilizations. We are also going to have to become intimately familiar with traditional Afrikan cultures by studying the language and practicing the spirituality of those cultures. That's what it's going to take to end our dependence on others, to be able to teach our Truestory to our people, and to be able to defend our conclusions against detractors (nothing like being able to tell a lying, deceiving egyptologist WHY the word "Kemet" means "Black Nation" and couldn't possibly mean "the Black land as in the color of the soil" as they claim it does. That's what Cheikh Anta Diop, his protege Theophile Obenga, Chancellor Williams, and others have done.

Brother Sami RaMaati ... i don't wanna overlook this post of yours, and the wealth of information within it.

One thing especially poignant, in my opinion, is the fact that we are all for the most part only sharing what has been given to us by others. Oftentimes, white people. That bothers me, and as i've already stated, is probably the reason we remain in the condition we do. What a notion though, to break free from this. Whew.

What i find so amazing, is how we consider ourselves so much greater than another Sister or Brother, talking to them in condescending tones, when all any of us have (for the most part) is 2nd hand information.

Well ... i just wanted to speak to this post. Thanks for sharing with us.

:heart:

Destee

Now that this is cleared up, I would like to start seeing posts and wisdom that others have gained from reading the Egyptian Book of the Dead. What were your thoughts, what did you learn about our ancestors and most of all what spiritual wisdom did you collect to share?

Now that this is cleared up, I would like to start seeing posts and wisdom that others have gained from reading the Egyptian Book of the Dead. What were your thoughts, what did you learn about our ancestors and most of all what spiritual wisdom did you collect to share?

Brother Music Producer ... it's probably best to start a thread, with the title speaking directly to those things. The title of this thread indicates something totally different, and will probably not yield the results you are seeking.

:heart:

Destee

Brother Sami RaMaati ... i don't wanna overlook this post of yours, and the wealth of information within it.

One thing especially poignant, in my opinion, is the fact that we are all for the most part only sharing what has been given to us by others. Oftentimes, white people. That bothers me, and as i've already stated, is probably the reason we remain in the condition we do. What a notion though, to break free from this. Whew.

What i find so amazing, is how we consider ourselves so much greater than another Sister or Brother, talking to them in condescending tones, when all any of us have (for the most part) is 2nd hand information.

Well ... i just wanted to speak to this post. Thanks for sharing with us.

:heart:

Destee



i agree destee