Peace and Blessings Family,

For those who are familiar with this text, have we made the mistake of starting with the most difficult? :eeek:

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being most difficult, where would this text fall (considering all you are aware of)?

Which text will probably prove the most challenging for us to understand?

:heart:

Destee

Yes, absolutely, I though this when we first started making our list but held my peace because I did not want it to appear as if I was trying to knock Kemetic study down on the list.

It takes much, much, much wisdom and understanding of Kemet history before you can start having understanding of the religion that is even being called spirituality today. When I read the works of Kemet priests one can see it is not spirituality it is a religion, a faith system.

But some things are best left alone so that the people can see for themselves.

I rate our first study as a complexity of 10+.

Which is a bad choice but as this was started it was already being pushed in the direction of Kemet study, which is extremely complex for the average reader. It is not a works that you read once but over and over and over, then you might be able to give an opinion.

Peace and Blessings Family,

For those who are familiar with this text, have we made the mistake of starting with the most difficult? :eeek:

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being most difficult, where would this text fall (considering all you are aware of)?

Which text will probably prove the most challenging for us to understand?

:heart:

Destee

For a newbie to jump directly into Budge is a bit much. What I recommend for a very first book is "The Book of Coming Forth by Day: The Ethics of the Declarations of Innocence" by Maulana Karenga. It's his own translation of a small enough portion of the Pert em Heru that you can get a nice, easy to understand look at Kemetic spirituality and how it affected the day to day behavior of the people back then. After that you can read Muata Ashby's translation of the "Book of Coming Forth by Day" (aka "Book of the Dead"), then Metu Neter vol 1 & 2 by Ra Un Nefer Amen (if you are looking for a way to put what you've learned into daily practice). Somewhere along the line you're going to have to read "Nile Valley Contributions to Civilization" by Anthony Browder to put all of this into its proper historical perspective with respect to other world religions

For a newbie to jump directly into Budge is a bit much. What I recommend for a very first book is "The Book of Coming Forth by Day: The Ethics of the Declarations of Innocence" by Maulana Karenga. It's his own translation of a small enough portion of the Pert em Heru that you can get a nice, easy to understand look at Kemetic spirituality and how it affected the day to day behavior of the people back then. After that you can read Muata Ashby's translation of the "Book of Coming Forth by Day" (aka "Book of the Dead"), then Metu Neter vol 1 & 2 by Ra Un Nefer Amen (if you are looking for a way to put what you've learned into daily practice). Somewhere along the line you're going to have to read "Nile Valley Contributions to Civilization" by Anthony Browder to put all of this into its proper historical perspective with respect to other world religions

Agreed.

To answer Destee's question:

I think the level of difficulty can only be measured, by one's own standards, and perceptions.

It evinced to me in another thread here, that the failure for some people to grasp the truest meaning of this system stems from using a methodology o thinking that does not run congruent to learning this system.

It will prove continuously fruitless, to try to learn and thoroughly understand an esoteric system, with a completely exoteric mindset.

More besides, there are alot of falsehoods and incorrect notions being uttered here, all by people who clearly have not demonstrated any level of experience with this system.

These notions are:

*That the Pert consists of "spells" = FALSE
(That is a faulty western notion. The libations and mantras are used as meditations. This is common in both ATR's as well as in Far Eastern systems such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, Jainism, etc.)

*Metu/Shetaut Neter is a "religion, belief, faith", etc = FALSE
(This theology, if taught and learned correctly, is a system of spiritual development, totally devoid of "faith and belief").

*You have to know Kemetic History, Language, culture, etc in order to have a thorough understanding of this system = FALSE
(As most of the initiates here can attest, this sort of knowledge is not necessary to reach one's true goal of this system, which is spiritual ascension. Moreover, many of us did not have such an understanding, when we first ventured to learn this system.

Besides, this is an unfair prerequisite to place on this system, since I'd almost guarantee that virtually no one has an understanding of Hebrew/Jewish history, culture, language, etc when they first start reading the Bible. Does one have to have such a knowledge to gain the message of God from the Old Testament? If not, then Kemetic Theology should not be held by such criteria.

Granted, many of us had already possessed a certain affinity for the culture and history of Kemet, but it fared us no better than those of us who did not. Eventually, we all learned the culture anyways, because our teachers used the spiritual system as a means of teaching the culture.)

I say again, that a different way of thinking is all that is required. People are trying to force square pegs into round holes with this.

And, I can almost guarantee, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if anyone here is finding Metu Neter to be difficult, then you are going to find virtually all other ATR's (as well as other esoteric systems) to be just as difficult, without the proper methodology to understand them. All of the afore-mentioned systems work under the very same premise.

HOTEPU

I have to agree with Sami and Sam. Going from Christianity straight into an ATR text is a big leap to make without some kind of bridge. Your question alone shows that your spirit is aware of this.

When we read the Pert or the Metu Neter our western minds immediately ask did these things actually happen. Did Ani actually exist? Using exoteric methodology we cannot move forward without answering both questions in the affirmative. And yet both questions are utterly irrelevant to to the spiritual systems we are trying to study.

Ratrher than setting ourselves up to be overwhelmed and discouraged, I suggest that we take a look at the books Sami listed and together outline principles that will guide us when we read the Pert. As C.S. Lewis said sometimes the longest way around is the shortest way home.

I have to agree with Sami and Sam. Going from Christianity straight into an ATR text is a big leap to make without some kind of bridge. Your question alone shows that your spirit is aware of this.

When we read the Pert or the Metu Neter our western minds immediately ask did these things actually happen. Did Ani actually exist? Using exoteric methodology we cannot move forward without answering both questions in the affirmative. And yet both questions are utterly irrelevant to to the spiritual systems we are trying to study.

Ratrher than setting ourselves up to be overwhelmed and discouraged, I suggest that we take a look at the books Sami listed and together outline principles that will guide us when we read the Pert. As C.S. Lewis said sometimes the longest way around is the shortest way home.

True indeed.

I think what might be helpful, is a Q&A session, conducted by some of the Kemetic SHEMSU (Initiates) here.

PEACE

Samurai
And, I can almost guarantee, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if anyone here is finding Metu Neter to be difficult, then you are going to find virtually all other ATR's (as well as other esoteric systems) to be just as difficult, without the proper methodology to understand them. All of the afore-mentioned systems work under the very same premise.

River
Ratrher than setting ourselves up to be overwhelmed and discouraged, I suggest that we take a look at the books Sami listed and together outline principles that will guide us when we read the Pert. As C.S. Lewis said sometimes the longest way around is the shortest way home.

Count me in.

It evinced to me in another thread here, that the failure for some people to grasp the truest meaning of this system stems from using a methodology o thinking that does not run congruent to learning this system.

As in taking things and names literally and missing the allegorical and metaphorical meaning of the text.
*More besides, there are alot of falsehoods and incorrect notions being uttered here, all by people who clearly have not demonstrated any level of experience with this system.

These notions are:

You have to know Kemetic History, Language, culture, etc in order to have a thorough understanding of this system = FALSE
(As most of the initiates here can attest, this sort of knowledge is not necessary to reach one's true goal of this system, which is spiritual ascension. Moreover, many of us did not have such an understanding, when we first ventured to learn this system.

Granted, many of us had already possessed a certain affinity for the culture and history of Kemet, but it fared us no better than those of us who did not. Eventually, we all learned the culture anyways, because our teachers used the spiritual system as a means of teaching the culture.)

Absolutely!

I have found that practice translates into a better way of learning the culture. Some of the most spiritually evolved people I know who've been using this system to improve themselves can't read the language and couldn't care less whether the Hyksos were black or white or whether Moses was Akhenaton, etc., but they understand the culture and use this understanding to raise better children, improve their relationships with their friends & family, help them succeed in life, and have a great deal of insight when it comes to a knowledge of self, society and the world. etc. This is the real measure of the worth of a religion. Historical knowledge can come later.
Granted, many of us had already possessed a certain affinity for the culture and history of Kemet, but it fared us no better than those of us who did not. Eventually, we all learned the culture anyways, because our teachers used the spiritual system as a means of teaching the culture.)
I'm sure we all know people who pride themselves on being walking encyclopedias of Kemetic/Afrikan history but can't get their lives in order and have poor interpersonal skills. This is because they have volumes of information about "Kemetic/Afrikan stuff" but don't have knowledge of how it can be used for self improvement.
I say again, that a different way of thinking is all that is required. People are trying to force square pegs into round holes with this.
An' dat's da troof!!

Peace and Blessings Family,

Brother Sami RaMaati ... thank you for suggesting a book that may prove easier to start with.

Family, my concern is, if it is as difficult to learn / grasp / understand, as is being presented in this forum, how can we expect the masses of our people to move toward it? I mean, there has to be a bridge that is easy to cross (easier than this). I'm well aware of the conditioning i've been victim of, and i know it's not a whole lot different than the conditioning all of our people have experienced ... so with that in mind ... how do we make it easy for the majority to embrace what our Ancestors left for us?

To simply declare that everyone must change the way they think, without giving them any tools in which to do that, does not get us to where we need to be. What good is knowledge if you can't get anyone else to understand or embrace it?

Either this information is worthy of us coming up with a way to make it easy for others to understand ... or it's not.

I've already said that i know nothing of these things, but i have thoughts of my Ancestors, their wisdom, their knowledge, their experiences, and i believe with my whole heart, that if they left something for us ... being as wise as they were ... they left it in a way that it would be (relatively) easy for us to get to and understand.

Would you all not agree, that there must be an easy (easier) way to get to the meat of this?

I can't help but think of the Bible, and how they are laying around free everywhere. This is what we are up against, others freely giving out their information to our people, yet, we can't give this information freely. We must spend money on more books (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but compared to what we're up against, free stuff, then it does add to the challenge we face), and based on this discussion thus far, in addition to buying the books, we must have someone more knowledgeable than ourselves, explaining it to us.

Brother Sami RaMaati ... you said the following, and i cannot agree more ...


I'm sure we all know people who pride themselves on being walking encyclopedias of Kemetic/Afrikan history but can't get their lives in order and have poor interpersonal skills. This is because they have volumes of information about "Kemetic/Afrikan stuff" but don't have knowledge of how it can be used for self improvement.

What good is knowing all of this information, if it hasn't moved those who know it, to be more loving, kind, and patient with their own people? Perhaps i am expecting too much from this knowledge. What can be expected from those who are aware?

I know i've probably rambled some here, but if you can follow me, please understand that my concern is for us collectively. I'm of the opinion, that we must find a way that makes it easier for the majority, to understand what our Ancestors left. While i'm not the smartest person in this community, my heart goes out to the one that could possibly be considered the "least of us" ... which could easily be me ... and it is us that this must be easy for. Is this knowledge only for the very smartest amongst us?

Brother Sami RaMaati ... you also said the following ...


Some of the most spiritually evolved people I know who've been using this system to improve themselves can't read the language and couldn't care less whether the Hyksos were black or white or whether Moses was Akhenaton, etc., but they understand the culture and use this understanding to raise better children, improve their relationships with their friends & family, help them succeed in life, and have a great deal of insight when it comes to a knowledge of self, society and the world. etc. This is the real measure of the worth of a religion. Historical knowledge can come later.

It is this part i am looking forward to reading and learning. I guess it's coming soon.

Do we need to just start all over? Come up with a plan that will make this easier for the majority?

Brother SAMURAI suggested a Q&A with Kemetic SHEMSU (Initiates) ... that would be a good starting place i suppose. How many Kemetic SHEMSU (Initiates) do we have in the community? How does one become a Kemetic SHEMSU (Initiate)? I don't even know what a Kemetic SHEMSU Initiate is, or what SHEMSU even stands for and means.

I know my questions may seem elementary, confused, and way off track, but trust, if mine are this way, others will be too. Our questions should be able to be answered in the best of manners, while still being able to teach this information in a way that folk can understand and embrace it. Those teaching should be aware of the condition those trying to learn are in, even anticipating our questions, and have some way(s) to overcome the majority of this.

Can this be made plain, to the least of us?

Or are we going to just settle with the fact that most of our people are too conditioned, dumb, etc., to learn?

:heart:

Destee

Brother SAMURAI suggested a Q&A with Kemetic SHEMSU (Initiates) ... that would be a good starting place i suppose. How many Kemetic SHEMSU (Initiates) do we have in the community?

In my deep, deep conversations with several so called Kemetic spiritualist in the Religion and Spirituality forum I have know grown to doubt their ability to transmit faithfully any information or Q & A they might setup. I don’t mean to be disruptive but due to their previous debates and writings I personally do not have faith in their ability to explain writings from Kemet.

I think we should go in the original direction that we were headed. Each person read the book and give their own opinion, understanding etc….

Once we start allowing it to go in a specific direction then we have destroyed the essence of independent thought.

I have found that practice translates into a better way of learning the culture. Some of the most spiritually evolved people I know who've been using this system to improve themselves can't read the language and couldn't care less whether the Hyksos were black or white or whether Moses was Akhenaton, etc., but they understand the culture and use this understanding to raise better children, improve their relationships with their friends & family, help them succeed in life, and have a great deal of insight when it comes to a knowledge of self, society and the world. etc. This is the real measure of the worth of a religion. Historical knowledge can come later.

I don’t understand why you would bring this into this forum?

I think it makes a lot of difference spiritually to know and understand that you are studying the records of your ancestors, thus the skin color of the Hyksos? It matters because the Hyksos ruled Egypt for about 110 years and set on the throne of Egypt. Knowing rather or not Moses is characterized from Akhenaten also matters because Akhenaten was an Egyptian Pharaoh that reestablishes the original monotheistic thoughts and ideas of Atum as Aten.

Knowing and understanding this history allows one to understand the state of mind of the people and priests during the writings that you use for Spirituality.

I believe it is imperative that one knows the origin and source of the works they call and use as Spiritual guidance.

In my deep, deep conversations with several so called Kemetic spiritualist in the Religion and Spirituality forum I have know grown to doubt their ability to transmit faithfully any information or Q & A they might setup. I don’t mean to be disruptive but due to their previous debates and writings I personally do not have faith in their ability to explain writings from Kemet.

I think we should go in the original direction that we were headed. Each person read the book and give their own opinion, understanding etc….

Once we start allowing it to go in a specific direction then we have destroyed the essence of independent thought.

Brother Music Producer ... i think it would be foolish, wasteful ... perhaps even a "sin" ... for us to neglect the generous opportunity (blessing) we have here, with those Members who know more / most about the subject, and are willing to share it. It seems you may even be in that number, from what i'm reading. You don't have to take part in the Q&A threads, or any thread for that matter. Actually, if you feel so strongly about these Members, you shouldn't take part in those threads. We will still read the work ourselves, forming our own opinions, and understandings.

I don't think we have to limit ourselves to either or ... but can have all of the above.

:heart:

Destee

Sista Destee, I've always known you to be a wise woman and you are really proving it all the time. You know more aboutr what's in the Pert than you think you do. See the most important things are already in our hearts. The book is just a reminder and a confirmation of what is already in us. It's not the Ani or the Jesus or the Krishna we find in a tomb somewhere that makes the books meaningful. It's the Ani that we become. that proves whether the book means anything at all in our lives..

I am just feeling really bubbly right now with the things you said here and just loving you for it, sista, and I know we will move towards an understanding tha the "least of us" can grasp.

in my opininon the cart is pulling the horse meaning we are going backwards. We must introduce the neteru to every one and what they represent first. Then and only then when they are mentioned will the new student become comfortable with the material. Because all kemetic doctrines are based on the neters. in addition is not up to any one to give u your truth system it is exclusive to u

I don’t understand why you would bring this into this forum?
To those who understand, no explanation is necessary. To those who don't, none is possible.
I think it makes a lot of difference spiritually to know and understand that you are studying the records of your ancestors,
We already know that we are studying the spiritual systems of the ancestors. There's no need to belabor the obvious.
thus the skin color of the Hyksos?
The people who I know that are spiritually evolving don't waste any of their time pondering the skin color of the Hyksos, and are still able to use meditations, rituals and oracles to get their lives in order, improve themselves, enhance the quality of their relationships with friends, family, and loved ones, raise better children, make positive contributions to their communities, and participate in the upliftment of black people. The true measure of the worth of any spiritual system is whether or not it enables a people to uplift themselves when used "as directed". John Henrik Clarke said that everything you do should be used as an instrument of your liberation or it is a waste of time.
It matters because the Hyksos ruled Egypt for about 110 years and set on the throne of Egypt.
One hundred ten years out of thousands of years of Kemetic civilization is but a flash in the pan. The Hyksos contributed nothing positive. Of the Hyksos, Queen Hatshepsut had the following to say after their expulsion from Kemet:

"I have restored that which was in ruins. I have raised up that which was destroyed when the Aamu were in the midst of [Kemet], overthrowing that which had been made [I]as they ruled in ignorance of Ra." [emphasis mine]
Knowing rather or not Moses is characterized from Akhenaten also matters because Akhenaten was an Egyptian Pharaoh that reestablishes the original monotheistic thoughts and ideas of Atum as Aten.
There are plenty of people who believe this, yet it has not helped them get their lives in order, improve themselves, enhance the quality of their relationships with friends, family, and loved ones, raise better children, make positive contributions to their communities, and participate in the upliftment of black people. The true measure of the worth of any spiritual system is whether or not it enables a people to uplift themselves when used "as directed". John Henrik Clarke said that everything you do should be used as an instrument of your liberation or it is a waste of time.
Knowing and understanding this history allows one to understand the state of mind of the people and priests during the writings that you use for Spirituality.
Practicing the spirituality allows an even better understanding.
I believe it is imperative that one knows the origin and source of the works they call and use as Spiritual guidance.
We already know the origin and source: it's an indigenous Afrikan spiritual system, originated and developed on the continent. Once we understand that, we can go about the business of doing what they did in order to rebuild a great civilization ourselves. We don't need to be able to memorize and regurgitate reams of egyptological trivia in order to engage in meditations, rituals, and the use of oracles. These are the spiritual practices that will help us to get our lives in order, improve ourselves, enhance the quality of our relationships with friends, family, and loved ones, raise better children, make positive contributions to our communities, and participate in the upliftment of black people. The true measure of the worth of any spiritual system is whether or not it enables a people to uplift themselves when used "as directed". John Henrik Clarke said that everything you do should be used as an instrument of your liberation or it is a waste of time.

That is a strange statement seeing that you and your friends used about 5 megabytes of memory trying to prove to me the Hyksos were Caucasians that took over Egypt.

For the second time, I have never participated in any threads arguing about the race of the Hyksos, so stop lying on me.

But anyway:
The reason I bring this up is because if you would notice in this thread http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=445018&postcount=1
The papery of Ani dates to a period soon after the Hyksos expulsion and during the governmental take over by the Amun Priesthood that placed Queen Hatshepsut on the throne as Pharaoh. It dates to the period of Egyptian History as to when religion became commoditiesed and hustled in the streets of Egypt which explains the nature of the Egyptian Book of the Dead, which also explains why there are some misrepresentations within the spells themselves as pertaining to the gods, which also explains why several of the books were made as to Fill in the Blank. They were basically massed produced to sell to the public. The rich could get theirs customized but the poor had to settle for the pre-produced books available in the local store or temple for a small fee of course.

This is why it becomes extremely important to understand the time period of Egyptian Doctrines before trying to jump into the Spirituality of it. Just as religion is being pedaled today, so did Egypt resort to the same.

The people who I know that are spiritually evolving don't waste any of their time pondering the skin color of the Hyksos, and what YOU claim the priesthood of Amen did, when the papyrus of Ani dates to, and whether or not it was used for toilet paper by the masses. Furthermore, they don't care what you claim was commoditized and hustled in the streets of Kemet. What matters most to them is that they are able to use meditations, rituals and oracles given to them by their Afrikan ancestors in order to get their lives in order, improve themselves, enhance the quality of their relationships with friends, family, and loved ones, raise better children, make positive contributions to their communities, and participate in the upliftment of black people. The true measure of the worth of any spiritual system is whether or not it enables a people to uplift themselves when used "as directed". John Henrik Clarke said that everything you do should be used as an instrument of your liberation or it is a waste of time.


Can you imagine the frenzy that must have been created when the Amun Priesthood published that one had to have a Book of the Dead in order to be accepted into the Field of Reeds (Heaven)? Can you imagine the wealth that was made off the people in taking an advantage of their belief system?
The people who I know that are spiritually evolving don't waste any of their time pondering how much wealth YOU claim was made off of whomever back in the day. Furthermore, they couldn't care less about the fact that you have a bone to pick with the Amen Priesthood. As far as they're concerned, that's between you and them. What matters most to them is that they are able to use meditations, rituals and oracles given to them by their Afrikan ancestors to get their lives in order, improve themselves, enhance the quality of their relationships with friends, family, and loved ones, raise better children, make positive contributions to their communities, and participate in the upliftment of black people. The true measure of the worth of any spiritual system is whether or not it enables a people to uplift themselves when used "as directed". John Henrik Clarke said that everything you do should be used as an instrument of your liberation or it is a waste of time.

I don’t understand why you would bring this into this forum?

Brother Music Producer ... Brother Sami RaMaati is free to bring, say, post, share, whatever he pleases, without explaining to you, me, or anyone else. He never called your name, never mentioned you, so i really don't understand why you're all in a tizzy over him speaking.

This new Spirituality Forum has a higher standard (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44515), as it is for the express purpose of our people studying and learning together, in the best of manners. Please leave all of that other foolishness, arguing, fighting, hating, childishness, etc. ... in the other Spirituality and Religion Forum ... if you want to be allowed to participate in this one.

Thanks a Bunch.

:heart:

Destee

To simply declare that everyone must change the way they think, without giving them any tools in which to do that, does not get us to where we need to be. What good is knowledge if you can't get anyone else to understand or embrace it?

I empathize with your concerns, Sister. It's one that I take into consideration each and every single day, as I strive to interact with my people, knowing what I know.

As Brother GOODMAN stated, the key is given to all, but that does not mean that it will fit all locks.

Kemetic spirituality is primarily about an enhanced self-awareness. Of course, the liberation of the minds of our people is always the goal, but it should be seen as the pentultimate goal, not the ultimate one. The ultimate goal should always be identifying with the God within you ("ANUK AUSAR"). That is what the Brother meant, by "putting the carriage before the horse" (good analogy, by the way).

Either this information is worthy of us coming up with a way to make it easy for others to understand ... or it's not.

The ease of understanding, comes from within the person, not with the knowledge itself.

I'm sure you recall in times past, my making mention of Star Wars.....? I sincerely was not just making non-sensical jokes back then.

In SW, Master Yoda taught his last Initiate (Luke Skywalker) that in order to become a master, he must unlearn all the things that he thinks he has learned.

You might not realize it, but many of us approach these new systems, in much the very same manner that we had done with the old systems. This is no way whatsoever to learn anything new.

I'm not going to lie to you; Metu Neter is NOT easy to understand. That's why you'll most likely not see it sitting on every table, like you do with the Bible. But then, you don't see College textbooks lying around every where either, do you?

I've already said that i know nothing of these things, but i have thoughts of my Ancestors, their wisdom, their knowledge, their experiences, and i believe with my whole heart, that if they left something for us ... being as wise as they were ... they left it in a way that it would be (relatively) easy for us to get to and understand.

Out of curiosity, what would give you this notion? How/why do you equate "wisdom" with "ease"?

I've found in my Journeys, that the harder the lesson to learn, the more profound the wisdom.

If it were easy, then all of us would have been liberated a long time ago.

Would you all not agree, that there must be an easy (easier) way to get to the meat of this?

No, not at all.

I can't help but think of the Bible, and how they are laying around free everywhere. This is what we are up against, others freely giving out their information to our people, yet, we can't give this information freely. We must spend money on more books (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but compared to what we're up against, free stuff, then it does add to the challenge we face), and based on this discussion thus far, in addition to buying the books, we must have someone more knowledgeable than ourselves, explaining it to us.

And thus, you can see the folly in this. How easy it is, for our Oppressor to lay his tool of oppression right in front of us. In the meantime, this same oppressor seeks to covet, the factual knowledge....And any that he cannot covet, he seeks to discredit, and even demonize, so that no one will even want the scraps that he chose to throw away.

Think about everything that you have "learned" about "Egypt" in times past.....Remember the old movies, where the "Pharoah" (another false name) was wicked, where the Egyptians were evil pagans, slave drivers, etc?

Between religion and white academia (both being tools of the Oppressor), we have been convinced to "believe" that everything about Kemet--and Africa proper--is wrong.

The journey will always get harder, before it gets easier, and you should expect no less.

Brother Sami RaMaati ... you said the following, and i cannot agree more ...

Here's the thing though, what you agreed with him regarding, runs hand-in-hand with what he said, that you didn't agree with.

What good is knowing all of this information, if it hasn't moved those who know it, to be more loving, kind, and patient with their own people? Perhaps i am expecting too much from this knowledge. What can be expected from those who are aware?

Nothing, save your being aware. Remember, the goal here is true self-awareness.

I know i've probably rambled some here, but if you can follow me, please understand that my concern is for us collectively. I'm of the opinion, that we must find a way that makes it easier for the majority, to understand what our Ancestors left. While i'm not the smartest person in this community, my heart goes out to the one that could possibly be considered the "least of us" ... which could easily be me ... and it is us that this must be easy for. Is this knowledge only for the very smartest amongst us?

You have to understand, that in history, this information was never presented as "easy". That, in essence is what an Initiate is: someone who strive to prove him/herself worthy of this divine knowledge.

Not even in ancient times, were there an over-inflated amount of people walking around as living gods.

It is this part i am looking forward to reading and learning. I guess it's coming soon.

It is, and it actually already has.

Do we need to just start all over? Come up with a plan that will make this easier for the majority?

I cannot stress enough, that this should not be the main focus.

Brother SAMURAI suggested a Q&A with Kemetic SHEMSU (Initiates) ... that would be a good starting place i suppose. How many Kemetic SHEMSU (Initiates) do we have in the community? How does one become a Kemetic SHEMSU (Initiate)? I don't even know what a Kemetic SHEMSU Initiate is, or what SHEMSU even stands for and means.

Shemsu means the initiate, or "s/he who seeks to find the path". If you are seeking to embark on this path, then you are already considered an initiate.

But again, the goal must be re-defined. The goal of the Initiate, is to simply be an initiate. Just like the goal of going to college, should be simply to learn. Anything that comes out of that, is purely subsequent.

That is where so many people in this world make their mistake; people go to college, with the expectation of getting a good job, or increasing their value in society as a result.....No one appreciates knowledge for knowledge's sake anymore. And that is why we are in this predicament to begin with.

I know my questions may seem elementary, confused, and way off track, but trust, if mine are this way, others will be too. Our questions should be able to be answered in the best of manners, while still being able to teach this information in a way that folk can understand and embrace it. Those teaching should be aware of the condition those trying to learn are in, even anticipating our questions, and have some way(s) to overcome the majority of this.

I do agree with this; the greatest of compassion and patience should be administered here.

Can this be made plain, to the least of us?

Honestly, I don't know how possible this is going to be. As an initiate, one of the things that we learn, is to teach the way we were taught. My Enlighteners did not make my learning experience easy for me. And I can honestly say, that had they done anything differently, I might not be where I am spiritually (and in other ways) today.

Or are we going to just settle with the fact that most of our people are too conditioned, dumb, etc., to learn?

:heart:

Destee

I don't know that I would put it so bluntly. However the fact is, this info, no matter how universally effective it is, is still not for everybody.

Just like college is not for everybody, this same applies here. And this is with no coincidence, because of the fact that everything about the College experience (frats/soro's, majors, dorms, etc) is/was fashioned on the Initiation concept.

Still, I am very willing to help conduct the Q&A session, as I do feel that it would be beneficial.

Also, I think that, since there are at least a half-dozen Initiates here, it would be helpful if each of us lends our input as they see fit, to various questions.

In addition to myself, you have:

*SEFIROT
*SAMI
*SHEMSI ENTEHUTI
*KHNUMET (RIVER)
*ANUK AUSAR
*GOODMAN
*MOORFIUS
*Even our own Brother Elder, JAMES

(I'm sure there are others, whom I may have forgotten, or just have not made their presence known yet).

These Brothers and Sister are no less than brilliant, and despite whatever reservations they have, they each are more than qualified to teach.

All of us mentioned on that list, live in different (even remote) areas, and with the exception of a couple of us, have had little to no interaction outside of this site, but we all recognize the God the dwells within and permeates from within each of us.

You're in good hands; with the exception of my own site, and the official Kemetic boards, never have I seen so many of us congregated in one place on-line.

HOTEPET

Sista Destee, I've always known you to be a wise woman and you are really proving it all the time. You know more aboutr what's in the Pert than you think you do. See the most important things are already in our hearts. The book is just a reminder and a confirmation of what is already in us. It's not the Ani or the Jesus or the Krishna we find in a tomb somewhere that makes the books meaningful. It's the Ani that we become. that proves whether the book means anything at all in our lives..

I am just feeling really bubbly right now with the things you said here and just loving you for it, sista, and I know we will move towards an understanding tha the "least of us" can grasp.

Sister River ... you're so sweet ... thank you ... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Thank you for hearing my cry, for the "least of us" ... i am encouraged ... :love:

:heart:

Destee

in my opininon the cart is pulling the horse meaning we are going backwards. We must introduce the neteru to every one and what they represent first. Then and only then when they are mentioned will the new student become comfortable with the material. Because all kemetic doctrines are based on the neters. in addition is not up to any one to give u your truth system it is exclusive to u

Brother Emanuel ... okay, i'm hearing you teach ... :teach: ... thanks for sharing!

I went and did a search on Neteru, because i'd never heard this term before. I found the following site, which looks really good in regard to listing the Neteru ... :) ... (smiling at myself, even using this word in conversation, as i never have before, thank you!) ... the site seems to be so good, that i wanted to just copy and paste everything here, but that would not be right or fair to that site owner.

The site, Myths & Neteru (http://www.geocities.com/titania_le_fey/mandneteru.html), provides this brief intro to the page ...

Among the Egyptians there were numerous Neteru (a word wrongly but roughly translated to gods). Every city had its own pantheon, every ruler thier patron.

To make this easier I shall explain how this site is set up. Below is a list of Neteru... if you click on a Neteru you will be taken to a page with a brief discription, an image or two and possibly a link to a myth or other tibbit such as related Neteru. (If you do not see the god you are looking for.. return in a few days. I am trying to add a couple pages or so each day.)

So Neteru are Gods? Is that right? And according to the list, images, info, etc., that this site owner has provided ... there are many Gods ... right?? Now that is something i didn't really know! Even though i've skimmed enough, heard enough, to halfway understand that there are numerous Gods, i never really understood it or consciously wrapped my mind around it. Okay. I gotta do that now i see ... :) ... no problem, i just never had anything concrete enough to initiate such. Okay, thanks again Brother Emanuel.

It looks like we need to start a thread on the Neteru, sharing and learning about the Gods.

The site owner also titles the page "Myth and Neteru (http://www.geocities.com/titania_le_fey/mandneteru.html)" ... which is kinda throw'n me off, as a myth in my mind, is something that is not real ... and associating it with Neteru, almost implies that it is not real either??!! Whew. Okay. Go slow Destee. Hmmmmm ... maybe i better go look up myth again. Speaking of looking up words, whew, simply studying this has presented so many words i've never really used before. I think we need a vocabulary thread too!

Brother Emanuel ... great suggestion, i'm seeing a little clearer already (i think) ... thank you !!! :bowdown: :bowdown:

:heart:

Destee

Sister River ... you're so sweet ... thank you ... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Thank you for hearing my cry, for the "least of us" ... i am encouraged ... :love:

:heart:

Destee


dear destee and the rest of the blessed individuals


There is no differnece between u and anyone whom has begun thier path. While u feel empty(regrarding knowledge of the metu neter) u must overstand that the same questions u have for the brothers on this form they to had at the begging of thier journey maybe even more. especially myself the first step is to open your heart and accept the information without being afraid of it. The second step as the beautiful marcus garvey quoted is to read read read read read and then when your done read it again. Then we some curiosity arises ask yourself what the material means to u before u asked anyone else. we are being trained to become independant thinkers. The true realtion ship is between u your ancestors and nature. how your feel about your self nature and your ancestors will play a major role in your development. You are now the seeker and not being sought. i suggest that we have an open discussion on the neters and what they represent spritually and physcial because this will be the most helpful tool when attempting to digest any kemetic literature. They relation our ancestors made between the unseen and seen "as above so below " is astounding to say the least. Last but not least we need sisters like u to begin there journey now . because mother neter is dying and we need her champion( the black women) to help stand up and defend her. she is being killed on a daily basis by the parasties(human beings) that currently live on her crust. without our women knowing who they are we are lost as a people. That is why the devil,satan,zuen the caucasian etc has a strong dislike for you because u are the power of the universe (being able to give birth to a being in your own image and likeness" we are only a subset of you taking a portion out of the x chormosome(female) you get a y (male) . I can go on for days but i will not. Do not be discouraged dear sister. Belive me we are no smarter than anyone this is only what we were interested in so we dove in head first. U are proficent in computer science a field of study the majority of us will never master. Soon u will do the same regarding kemetic literature(givin the time energy and effort is applied)for i hear the love and affection in your post and when you speak on the chat line.

I leave u in peace

This new Spirituality Forum has a higher standard, as it is for the express purpose of our people studying and learning together, in the best of manners.

Amen to this sister - we were supposed to ensure that we initiate prayer/meditation to align our spirit properly before we post here in this thread. I hope we all are striving to do that, for if we are, the evidence (or lack thereof) of our spiritual ascendancy is being presented here in plain view.

I have not contributed this past week because I have been extraordinarily busy, and the time I've had has been immersed in the Metu Neter (can't put it down).

I do think it would've been best to start with the Metu Neter, but I know not everyone had the text and needs time to digest it...there's no question studying the Pert w/o at least a contextual understanding of kemetic practice/philosophy is difficult.

But it looks like, as we are prone to do, we are finding our way through it regardless of the difficulty (using internet references for background).

I will say that more I learn, the more I'm convinced of my original conclusions regarding the spirituality of black people...there are more similarities in our practice of spiritual belief systems than differences, and there is no religion which can prevent black people from spiritual ascendancy...more to come on this later.

Hetep

I empathize with your concerns, Sister. It's one that I take into consideration each and every single day, as I strive to interact with my people, knowing what I know.

As Brother GOODMAN stated, the key is given to all, but that does not mean that it will fit all locks.

Kemetic spirituality is primarily about an enhanced self-awareness. Of course, the liberation of the minds of our people is always the goal, but it should be seen as the pentultimate goal, not the ultimate one. The ultimate goal should always be identifying with the God within you ("ANUK AUSAR"). That is what the Brother meant, by "putting the carriage before the horse" (good analogy, by the way).

Brother SAMURAI ... i disagree with you, and i don't know anything about Kemetic Spirituality, so i'm doing it as respectfully as possible. I refuse to believe that a key is given to all, but it won't work for all. Why give the key to all, if it isn't meant to work for all? I believe that if our Ancestors left something for us, it is for us, all of us ... and the challenge we're trying to overcome here, is to give everyone to know they have the key, and show them where the lock is. Whether they turn the key in the lock, is totally up to them.

You say Kemetic Spirituality is about enhanced self awareness, but if one can't even understand Kemetic Spirituality, there is no hope for them to receive the enhanced self awareness that comes as a result of it.

In this environment, for the purpose of this effort, the ultimate goal is to make the information available, so as many as would like, can turn the key, experience the enhanced self-awareness, and better identify with the God in them ... if they so choose.


The ease of understanding, comes from within the person, not with the knowledge itself.

I'm sure you recall in times past, my making mention of Star Wars.....? I sincerely was not just making non-sensical jokes back then.

In SW, Master Yoda taught his last Initiate (Luke Skywalker) that in order to become a master, he must unlearn all the things that he thinks he has learned.

You might not realize it, but many of us approach these new systems, in much the very same manner that we had done with the old systems. This is no way whatsoever to learn anything new.

I'm not going to lie to you; Metu Neter is NOT easy to understand. That's why you'll most likely not see it sitting on every table, like you do with the Bible. But then, you don't see College textbooks lying around every where either, do you?

Again, i disagree. I've found that most of our Sisters and Brothers have the capacity within them to understand most anything. What is often lacking in getting them to understand, is someone who cares enough to take the time to help them understand. Sure, some may take longer than others, but all can learn, if they wanna learn. The ease of understanding, in my opinion, lies primarily with the presenter as well as the information being presented. Oftentimes, it is just how it is being presented, that causes the failure in it being understood. There are so many ways to present information, that if the presenter hasn't tried them all, they can't honestly blame the person for not understanding.

I have watched one or two StarWars movies, way back in the beginning of the series. I would never have done so, had my son not begged me to stand in that movie line, waiting for a ticket to enter. I remember clearly, as i stood in that line, wondering to myself as i looked at all the people waiting to get in ... why am i here ... are they giving something away ... weird ... but anyway ... (sorry for the flashback) ... uhhhhh ... i'm not much of a movie watcher, and movie examples don't usually help me.

I don't see how you're likening "white academia" to the Metu Neter.


Out of curiosity, what would give you this notion? How/why do you equate "wisdom" with "ease"?

I've found in my Journeys, that the harder the lesson to learn, the more profound the wisdom.

If it were easy, then all of us would have been liberated a long time ago.

We are studying the religions of our Ancestors right now. Our people. Our Parents, if you will. No parent would make a path hard for their child, not if they are wise, and i believe they were. No, they would not make it excessively difficult for us to understand the lesson, if we have a sincere desire to learn the lesson. Now, for the child that does not want to learn the lesson, then it will be difficult for them, for that reason alone. That is where i get that notion.

I don't believe i equated wisdom with ease. If i were to compare the two, i'd say that wisdom creates ease.

Certainly there are life lessons we all experience, some more difficult than others, depending on where we are in our own lives, how willing we are to learn the lesson in the best of manners. Sometimes, we make a lesson much harder than it has to be, by the choices we make. I'd go so far as to say, we do that more often than not.


And thus, you can see the folly in this. How easy it is, for our Oppressor to lay his tool of oppression right in front of us. In the meantime, this same oppressor seeks to covet, the factual knowledge....And any that he cannot covet, he seeks to discredit, and even demonize, so that no one will even want the scraps that he chose to throw away.

Think about everything that you have "learned" about "Egypt" in times past.....Remember the old movies, where the "Pharoah" (another false name) was wicked, where the Egyptians were evil pagans, slave drivers, etc?

Between religion and white academia (both being tools of the Oppressor), we have been convinced to "believe" that everything about Kemet--and Africa proper--is wrong.

The journey will always get harder, before it gets easier, and you should expect no less.

Again, we disagree ... well, not on all points this time. I agree with what you said about how they have distorted all images and knowledge of our Beloved Africa, using their tools against us.

I don't agree that the journey has to get harder, before it gets easier. I expect the very best, and no less.


Here's the thing though, what you agreed with him regarding, runs hand-in-hand with what he said, that you didn't agree with.

This is possible. I've not gone back and verified what words i actually agreed with, but it's all good.


Nothing, save your being aware. Remember, the goal here is true self-awareness.

Nothing? Nothing but being aware?! Does this awareness then spawn some loving tendencies toward one's own people? Does it not encourage someone to always want to say and do the right thing? Does it improve self-esteem in any way? Surely you misunderstood my question? What is the purpose if at the end of the day, it does nothing except make a person aware?


You have to understand, that in history, this information was never presented as "easy". That, in essence is what an Initiate is: someone who strive to prove him/herself worthy of this divine knowledge.

Not even in ancient times, were there an over-inflated amount of people walking around as living gods.

Brother OldSoul taught a class on the Egyptian Mystery Schools, and he said that those who were chosen to attend, understood clearly that a significant portion of their having access to the wisdom and knowledge, was so that they could take it back to the masses. So i agree, there were probably not a lot of folk walking around as living Gods, but those that were, had great responsibilities to meet.


I cannot stress enough, that this should not be the main focus.

With all due respect, you're not really in a position to tell me what my focus should be. I mean, i understand what you're saying, but not only do i want to understand on a personal level, i have the responsibility of trying to insure that the information is presented in a manner that the collective can understand. The reason i've created this forum, and am taking part in the manner that i am, is because my focus is on the collective, as well as myself individually.


Shemsu means the initiate, or "s/he who seeks to find the path". If you are seeking to embark on this path, then you are already considered an initiate.

But again, the goal must be re-defined. The goal of the Initiate, is to simply be an initiate. Just like the goal of going to college, should be simply to learn. Anything that comes out of that, is purely subsequent.

That is where so many people in this world make their mistake; people go to college, with the expectation of getting a good job, or increasing their value in society as a result.....No one appreciates knowledge for knowledge's sake anymore. And that is why we are in this predicament to begin with.

Again, i disagree. I think obtaining any knowledge should be with some purpose in mind. You're making it sound as though, simply warehousing the knowledge in one's head, is the goal. What a terrible end for knowledge!

I need purpose. For example, my learning this information now, isn't just so i can say i know it, but it's because i want to understand my Ancestors better. I want to know their lives, as much as possible. I want to understand how they worshipped God. I want to compare it to the different ways folk worship God now. I want to receive a special message, from my Ancestors, by reading and learning all they left. I hope within it, we are able to find what went wrong with our people collectively, and perhaps even, how to make it right. I want there to be a secret within, on how we can love and manifest that love for each other better. I have very high hopes, that go way beyond me just acquiring the knowledge.


I do agree with this; the greatest of compassion and patience should be administered here.

Though rare, it's nice when we do agree.


Honestly, I don't know how possible this is going to be. As an initiate, one of the things that we learn, is to teach the way we were taught. My Enlighteners did not make my learning experience easy for me. And I can honestly say, that had they done anything differently, I might not be where I am spiritually (and in other ways) today.

I appreciate your honesty. If it was not easy for you, then it will be difficult for you to make it easy for others. It's hard to teach what one doesn't know. That's okay though, i believe with all of us working together, we can make it relatively easy to understand, for those that want to understand.


I don't know that I would put it so bluntly. However the fact is, this info, no matter how universally effective it is, is still not for everybody.

Just like college is not for everybody, this same applies here. And this is with no coincidence, because of the fact that everything about the College experience (frats/soro's, majors, dorms, etc) is/was fashioned on the Initiation concept.

Still, I am very willing to help conduct the Q&A session, as I do feel that it would be beneficial.

Also, I think that, since there are at least a half-dozen Initiates here, it would be helpful if each of us lends our input as they see fit, to various questions.

In addition to myself, you have:

*SEFIROT
*SAMI
*SHEMSI ENTEHUTI
*KHNUMET (RIVER)
*ANUK AUSAR
*GOODMAN
*MOORFIUS
*Even our own Brother Elder, JAMES

(I'm sure there are others, whom I may have forgotten, or just have not made their presence known yet).

These Brothers and Sister are no less than brilliant, and despite whatever reservations they have, they each are more than qualified to teach.

All of us mentioned on that list, live in different (even remote) areas, and with the exception of a couple of us, have had little to no interaction outside of this site, but we all recognize the God the dwells within and permeates from within each of us.

You're in good hands; with the exception of my own site, and the official Kemetic boards, never have I seen so many of us congregated in one place on-line.

HOTEPET

Brother SAMURAI ... thanks for all of the above.

I was being sarcastic when being so blunt. While everyone's understanding may not rise to "God Level" i do believe, everyone can understand in a manner that allows them to be informed and empowered by this information. Anything you're willing to do, to help toward that end, is appreciated.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

Brother SAMURAI ... i disagree with you, and i don't know anything about Kemetic Spirituality, so i'm doing it as respectfully as possible. I refuse to believe that a key is given to all, but it won't work for all. Why give the key to all, if it isn't meant to work for all? I believe that if our Ancestors left something for us, it is for us, all of us ... and the challenge we're trying to overcome here, is to give everyone to know they have the key, and show them where the lock is. Whether they turn the key in the lock, is totally up to them.

Actually, you're right with this.

It was my mistake in conveyance; the key is indeed universal, irregardless to the lock.

The issue lies with perception; as you stated, we must bring our people to the point of realization, that this key does to this lock.

You say Kemetic Spirituality is about enhanced self awareness, but if one can't even understand Kemetic Spirituality, there is no hope for them to receive the enhanced self awareness that comes as a result of it.

And, it is with this, that I would say that the carriage is being put before the horse.

As with any system, Kemetic Spirituality manifested originally out of self-awareness. Self-awareness begets (facilitates) self-awareness.

It is that same self-awareness, with which I use to understand Tao-Te Ching (an Asian spiritual system), or the Way of the Feather (Cherokee Spirituality).

The system is the tool, that helps one to accomplish the task. It is not the task itself.

For example: do you know how to use a wrench?

In this environment, for the purpose of this effort, the ultimate goal is to make the information available, so as many as would like, can turn the key, experience the enhanced self-awareness, and better identify with the God in them ... if they so choose.

Agreed.

Again, i disagree. I've found that most of our Sisters and Brothers have the capacity within them to understand most anything. What is often lacking in getting them to understand, is someone who cares enough to take the time to help them understand. Sure, some may take longer than others, but all can learn, if they wanna learn. The ease of understanding, in my opinion, lies primarily with the presenter as well as the information being presented. Oftentimes, it is just how it is being presented, that causes the failure in it being understood. There are so many ways to present information, that if the presenter hasn't tried them all, they can't honestly blame the person for not understanding.

While the irony of what you are saying is not lost on me (for reasons that will hopefull become more apparent as this undertaking of ours progresses), I will still say that this is much easier said than done.

I have watched one or two StarWars movies, way back in the beginning of the series. I would never have done so, had my son not begged me to stand in that movie line, waiting for a ticket to enter. I remember clearly, as i stood in that line, wondering to myself as i looked at all the people waiting to get in ... why am i here ... are they giving something away ... weird ... but anyway ... (sorry for the flashback) ... uhhhhh ... i'm not much of a movie watcher, and movie examples don't usually help me.

OK then, I'll have to utilize another example. Bear in mind, "examples" (symbology, actually) are the staple of this theology. The ability to both convey and understand examples is the crux of the Wisdom.

I don't see how you're likening "white academia" to the Metu Neter.

Not in nature, but in the attempt of structure.

White academia was founded upon ancient principles: secret societies, institutions, etc are based on our ideas.

For instance, the 2 most notable and prestigous professions in modern society, are the Medical and Law professions.

Both of these professions utilize Kemetic symbols as identifiers for their respective fields.

Medicine uses the CADUCEUS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Caduceus.svg

This is an African symbol that represents medicine, homeopathy and a host of other esoteric ideas.

Law uses the scales of Balance:
http://members.aol.com/egyptart/judgement.html

The scales have a mundane (social) significance, as well as a phenomenal (spiritual) one.


We are studying the religions of our Ancestors right now. Our people. Our Parents, if you will. No parent would make a path hard for their child, not if they are wise, and i believe they were. No, they would not make it excessively difficult for us to understand the lesson, if we have a sincere desire to learn the lesson. Now, for the child that does not want to learn the lesson, then it will be difficult for them, for that reason alone. That is where i get that notion.

I agree, however making it excessively does the child no service, any moreso than making it excessively difficult does.

I don't believe i equated wisdom with ease. If i were to compare the two, i'd say that wisdom creates ease.

True, the former facilitates the latter.

Certainly there are life lessons we all experience, some more difficult than others, depending on where we are in our own lives, how willing we are to learn the lesson in the best of manners. Sometimes, we make a lesson much harder than it has to be, by the choices we make. I'd go so far as to say, we do that more often than not.

Perhaps, but how does one approach a lesson that one has never fathomed before?

We have to bear in mind, that we as a People, are so far disconnected from these concepts that we are striving to learn, that it is not going to be easy to learn it by any stretch. But when it is finally learned, oh the joy, peace, understanding you will achieve.

Again, we disagree ... well, not on all points this time. I agree with what you said about how they have distorted all images and knowledge of our Beloved Africa, using their tools against us.

I don't agree that the journey has to get harder, before it gets easier. I expect the very best, and no less.

Really? Then we'll have to disagree then.

Virtually every undertaking I've endeavored in my entire life, was hard at the beginning.

Everything from learning to walk, to learning to meditate. I recall when I first started weightlifting, 50lbs was the hardest thing to lift. But it only got easier with time. Then, 100lbs was hard, but that got eventually easier. Now, I press over 350lbs, and even that's not easy to do.

As I've linked the system of diet and exercise with spiritual development many times (as I'm a practicioner of both), I can attest that we are all, without exception, going to have difficulty, especially in the beginning stages, with everything that we do.

This is possible. I've not gone back and verified what words i actually agreed with, but it's all good.

Fair enough.

Please bear in mind, that it's not my intent to be contentuous with you here (believe it or not, it never is).

But just as I have a set of swords at home (sword is a weapon, and a weapon is a tool), and I keep them polished and stored with the greatest of care, so too do I do the same thing with this system.

I've seen far too many people, both past and present, tarnish it....Thus in the spirit of our Ancestors that created it, we honor them by both regaining and maintaining its integrity.

Nothing? Nothing but being aware?! Does this awareness then spawn some loving tendencies toward one's own people? Does it not encourage someone to always want to say and do the right thing? Does it improve self-esteem in any way? Surely you misunderstood my question? What is the purpose if at the end of the day, it does nothing except make a person aware?

Please know that I didn't misunderstand your question in the slightest.

I would rather think that you might have misunderstood my answer. And rightly so, since the continuation of that answer came later, when I said:

"Anything that comes out of that, is purely subsequent."

All the values that you spoke of above, are the product and/or result of self-awareness. They are guaranteed to naturally come as a result of your initiation. But that should not be the focus.

We are taught that the purpose of spirituality is to become one with the Creator. Nothing more.

People are always wondering, if they'll ever get a good job, or if they'll find their soulmate. God's immediate answer to all of these questions (and others like them), is "become One with the God that dwells within you."

Though it rather loathes me to draw the comparison, but this is the precisely same thing that Jesus was trying to convey in MATTHEW 6:33.

Brother OldSoul taught a class on the Egyptian Mystery Schools, and he said that those who were chosen to attend, understood clearly that a significant portion of their having access to the wisdom and knowledge, was so that they could take it back to the masses. So i agree, there were probably not a lot of folk walking around as living Gods, but those that were, had great responsibilities to meet.

True indeed, and those responsbilities were not taken lightly.

And that is what I was trying to convey earlier in this very post (the part about the swords).

It was also what I meant, about my teaching in the manner that I was also taught. I do not only my teacher honor and respect, but also his/her teacher, and his/her teacher before them. This is an ancestral custom that spans back millennia.

With all due respect, you're not really in a position to tell me what my focus should be. I mean, i understand what you're saying, but not only do i want to understand on a personal level, i have the responsibility of trying to insure that the information is presented in a manner that the collective can understand. The reason i've created this forum, and am taking part in the manner that i am, is because my focus is on the collective, as well as myself individually.

With equally due respect, I think I'm in a rather ideal position. As are the other members that I have mentioned previously.

Again, not to be contentuous, but I have the same goal in mind, that you do. We both benefit from each other; my having something to teach, and you providing the forum with which to teach it.

Again, i disagree. I think obtaining any knowledge should be with some purpose in mind. You're making it sound as though, simply warehousing the knowledge in one's head, is the goal. What a terrible end for knowledge!

That's where Wisdom comes in. That's learning what to do with the knowledge that is gained.

Again, knowledge is the tool. What does your wrench do, when you are not using it? Where do you put (store) it?

I need purpose. For example, my learning this information now, isn't just so i can say i know it, but it's because i want to understand my Ancestors better. I want to know their lives, as much as possible.

What do you think your ancestors did? I cannot overemphasize that knowledge for knowledge sake was one of the premiere missions of our ancestors in Kemet.

Everything else was subsequent, but no less significant.

I want to understand how they worshipped God. I want to compare it to the different ways folk worship God now. I want to receive a special message, from my Ancestors, by reading and learning all they left. I hope within it, we are able to find what went wrong with our people collectively, and perhaps even, how to make it right. I want there to be a secret within, on how we can love and manifest that love for each other better. I have very high hopes, that go way beyond me just acquiring the knowledge.

Therein lies the key: to do all of the former that you listed, you must first appreciate the latter for its own sake. Again, this is what they did.

In ancient Kemet, knowledge permeated all around them. Everything they built, as well as how the built it, told the story of the universe.

Did you know that ancient Kemetic houses were built with absolutely NO doors? no door for the bathroom, no front door, etc.

Whereas, everything we (modern society) build, is for the purpose of concealment. The way the system is run, is for concealment and restriction.

Knowledge and integrity was valued. The proof of this, lies in the the Gods and Goddesses that they "worshipped" (a faulty notion, but I use it here in my best attempt to convey this info in a way that you might better ascertain). TEHUTI = wisdom. AUSAR = the indwelling intelligence. HERU = the divine perception.

And so on.

To truly say ANUK-AUSAR, one has to value the level of intelligence within them.


Though rare, it's nice when we do agree.

True indeed. It's truly a shame that it does not happen more often. :bye:

I appreciate your honesty. If it was not easy for you, then it will be difficult for you to make it easy for others. It's hard to teach what one doesn't know. That's okay though, i believe with all of us working together, we can make it relatively easy to understand, for those that want to understand.

Fair enough.


Brother SAMURAI ... thanks for all of the above.

I was being sarcastic when being so blunt. While everyone's understanding may not rise to "God Level" i do believe, everyone can understand in a manner that allows them to be informed and empowered by this information. Anything you're willing to do, to help toward that end, is appreciated.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

True indeed.

SHEMHOTEPET

We have to bear in mind, that we as a People, are so far disconnected from these concepts that we are striving to learn, that it is not going to be easy to learn it by any stretch. But when it is finally learned, oh the joy, peace, understanding you will achieve.

I do believe that in due time it will be demonstrated here that many of these concepts are indeed already in practice by many of our people, albeit in different forms with different rituals.

I have read enough of Metu Neter to be sure of it.

Our people may not be as disconnected as you might think, for without question many of our elders, kemetic spiritualists and otherwise, exude the joy, peace and wisdom that is sourced from divine intelligence.

I do believe that in due time it will be demonstrated here that many of these concepts are indeed already in practice by many of our people, albeit in different forms with different rituals.

I have read enough of Metu Neter to be sure of it.

Our people may not be as disconnected as you might think, for without question many of our elders, kemetic spiritualists and otherwise, exude the joy, peace and wisdom that is sourced from divine intelligence.


There have been several things that have been drawn from the memory of our past lives that has been put into use today. The pouring of liquor on the curb for a fallen friend(libations). putting women first(big momma) in our home even though we live in a society that does not repect women. The simple sayings like 'i feel you" which means that i feel your energy in motions. We use termonolgy that relates to our original way of life without even knowing it. however the important factor is most of us donto know why. Please stop this pointless bickering on very petty points. It appears that as soon as the material becomes difficult to some they want to put it down. My suggestion to them is do so until u feel that u are ready. OUr original way of life is a life study. so of course it will take time. Brother samuri is right if you are not seeking it will not develop to u. It can not be taught only understood by each individual. our ancestors new that things were subject to change and that was the only constant universal law. There is a saying that goes " u only bathe in the nile once because either the nile has change or u have changed. Mother neter does not and will not present her self to u. she is not promoting herself on every corner trying to recruit followers. She not need to boast about her accomplishments. WE experinece them every day (life). OUr ancestors felt that every aspect of living was considered a family member from flesh to atom to quark to zele to hydrogen to spatial matter to the other side of zero no things. WE embraced every part of our development with deep love and compasion. That is why such emphasises is placed on not putting value on the sum of things because they were not everlasting. The only thing that is everylasting is the amen"hidden intelligence in all of us" which is our personal gift from the creator"being in his image and likeness" we can decide to go against the laws of nature as humans. That is why our ancestors considered themselves karast or the messiahs after being anoited with the oil from the fat of a crocidle stating" i am in the image and likeness of the creator and since i am like him i can do all things" This is were the concept for the passion of the karast was developed with there hero JE(jehovah -zeus). as well as the concept of baptism and being born again.We all can be karast or messiahs after initation( a title). in short our spirtual path way is for us to become the gods we know we are . a god cannot live unjustly or loose his divinity. that is the major reason that the colonial invaders found no prisons in kemet ,afruqua afrika, when they came into contact with the so called "natives" lol!!!

I leave u in peace

There have been several things that have been drawn from the memory of our past lives that has been put into use today. The pouring of liquor on the curb for a fallen friend(libations). putting women first(big momma) in our home even though we live in a society that does not repect women. The simple sayings like 'i feel you" which means that i feel your energy in motions. We use termonolgy that relates to our original way of life without even knowing it. however the important factor is most of us donto know why. Please stop this pointless bickering on very petty points. It appears that as soon as the material becomes difficult to some they want to put it down. My suggestion to them is do so until u feel that u are ready. OUr original way of life is a life study. so of course it will take time. Brother samuri is right if you are not seeking it will not develop to u. It can not be taught only understood by each individual. our ancestors new that things were subject to change and that was the only constant universal law. There is a saying that goes " u only bathe in the nile once because either the nile has change or u have changed. Mother neter does not and will not present her self to u. she is not promoting herself on every corner trying to recruit followers. She not need to boast about her accomplishments. WE experinece them every day (life). OUr ancestors felt that every aspect of living was considered a family member from flesh to atom to quark to zele to hydrogen to spatial matter to the other side of zero no things. WE embraced every part of our development with deep love and compasion. That is why such emphasises is placed on not putting value on the sum of things because they were not everlasting. The only thing that is everylasting is the amen"hidden intelligence in all of us" which is our personal gift from the creator"being in his image and likeness" we can decide to go against the laws of nature as humans. That is why our ancestors considered themselves karast or the messiahs after being anoited with the oil from the fat of a crocidle stating" i am in the image and likeness of the creator and since i am like him i can do all things" This is were the concept for the passion of the karast was developed with there hero JE(jehovah -zeus). as well as the concept of baptism and being born again.We all can be karast or messiahs after initation( a title). in short our spirtual path way is for us to become the gods we know we are . a god cannot live unjustly or loose his divinity. that is the major reason that the colonial invaders found no prisons in kemet ,afruqua afrika, when they came into contact with the so called "natives" lol!!!

I leave u in peace


I think there may be some misunderstanding here Brother Goodman.

On this journey we have STARTED with the belief system that a good many on this forum subscribe to and practice, but it is just the start, not the end.

I don't know about the others here, but it is not my intent to initiate into the Ausar Auset society, that is not my goal.

My goal is to learn and experience what is there for me to learn and experience from it, and eventually present that knowledge where possible in a syncretized fashion as we move through the study of other belief systems.

I have found the Metu Neter incredibly enlightening (can't say the same of the Pert), both from the persepective of helping me understand the root behind the discussions here and seeing the obvious similarities in what I know to be the practice (behind the scenes) that goes on in other belief systems (namely southern black christians).

The matter of whether and to what degree these similarities exist is not trivial nor petty, but central to the ultimate goal.

We shouldn't make the mistake of assuming our learned knowledge makes us privy to the actual spiritual practice of those that believe differently.

It is highly probable that not many of us know what has been revealed to our brothers and sisters, thus any assumption that our knowledge/study has relegated us to a position of spiritual superiority which only a select few others could possibly hope to attain should be rejected.

I think there may be some misunderstanding here Brother Goodman.

On this journey we have STARTED with the belief system that a good many on this forum subscribe to and practice, but it is just the start, not the end.

I don't know about the others here, but it is not my intent to initiate into the Ausar Auset society, that is not my goal.

My goal is to learn and experience what is there for me to learn and experience from it, and eventually present that knowledge where possible in a syncretized fashion as we move through the study of other belief systems.

I have found the Metu Neter incredibly enlightening (can't say the same of the Pert), both from the persepective of helping me understand the root behind the discussions here and seeing the obvious similarities in what I know to be the practice (behind the scenes) that goes on in other belief systems (namely southern black christians).

The matter of whether and to what degree these similarities exist is not trivial nor petty, but central to the ultimate goal.

We shouldn't make the mistake of assuming our learned knowledge makes us privy to the actual spiritual practice of those that believe differently.

It is highly probable that not many of us know what has been revealed to our brothers and sisters, thus any assumption that our knowledge/study has relegated us to a position of spiritual superiority which only a select few others could possibly hope to attain should be rejected.

i suggest u re read my posts!!!! IN addition that is your choice my brother i am very very very far from being a master at any thing. These posts are simply my understanding of the order of things at this time. It is subject to change and probbaly will as i grow. Question : how is explaning the order of things(science) with the spritual intelligence amen converision last time i check we can think(amen) and feel(science physical matter) every day. was it called conversion when you were learing this subject matter in school my brother? As above so below this has no things to do with religion ".MOTHER NATURE DOES NOT NEED TO RECRUIT U MY BROTHER

i suggest u re read my posts!!!! IN addition that is your choice my brother i am very very very far from being a master at any thing. These posts are simply my understanding of the order of things at this time. It is subject to change and probbaly will as i grow. Question : how is explaning the order of things(science) with the spritual intelligence amen converision last time i check we can think(amen) and feel(science physical matter) every day. was it called conversion when you were learing this subject matter in school my brother? As above so below this has no things to do with religion ".MOTHER NATURE DOES NOT NEED TO RECRUIT U MY BROTHER

I hear you brother goodman but I'm not worried about being recruited, and believe me I have no desire to defend religion.

All I'm really saying is I've seen a few posts that seem to imply the material we're studying now is exclusive, not for everyone, and will only be understood by those few identified as "initiates"....I could be wrong, but I don't think any of the above is true.

All here are capable of further growth, teachers and students alike...

Peace

PEACE KEMETKIND:

I hear you brother goodman but I'm not worried about being recruited, and believe me I have no desire to defend religion.

All I'm really saying is I've seen a few posts that seem to imply the material we're studying now is exclusive, not for everyone, and will only be understood by those few identified as "initiates"....I could be wrong, but I don't think any of the above is true.

All here are capable of further growth, teachers and students alike...

Peace

I think you are misinterpreting the general sentiment.

While it's been stated that this knowledge can work for virtually anyone, that doesn't mean that it will.

The basis of Metu Neter, as I'm sure you are learning, is perception. There are always going to be people who will reject things, based on their perceptions (or lack thereof).

How many of our people choose not to eat healthy, despite the longstanding evidence of what a healthy diet can do for them?

Meut Neter teaches us of the 3 developmental stages of man.

The SAHU = the underdeveloped human, who lives in a wild state, governed strictly by his lower self (emotions, sensations, "beliefs" etc).

The AB = is beginning to live by the knowledge of God/Nature/Universe, and demonstrates the ability to live by these laws, but at the same time, is still "bound" by them.

The AUSAR = the God-Being, the ascended master, who has transcended nearly all the limitations of the physical realm.

This is quite similar to the 85/100/5% theorem, as espoused by the NOI and NOGE (these are all modernizations of the ancient principles.)

When people are governed by their emotional personas, they exclude themselves from things--no one has to do it for them. This is evinced all throughout society.

I don't know about the others here, but it is not my intent to initiate into the Ausar Auset society, that is not my goal.

Herein is where yet another myth surfaces:

You don't have to belong to the AAS in order to understand and live by this knowledge.

Moreover, that's not the point of becoming "initiated".

Initiation is a completely internal process. All the external stuff are simply formalities that can be easily avoided.

Of all the people here whom I'd endorsed previously, not all of them are members of the AAS--nor would I surmise that they want to be--at least, not in any official capacity.

Again, we point to how language facilitates intellect:

All the word "initiate" means, is to begin something.

In that respect, everyone who has decided to begin this endeavor here, to learn about our ancient ways on this site, is an "initiate".

Metu Neter (the book) sits on shelves in Black and/or Spiritual bookstores all over the country--the planet, even.

People buy it all the time, and I can guarantee, that not every consumer of this book seeks to join the AAS. In fact, after you finish reading Metu Neter (both volumes), as well as several of the same author's other writings, you'll find that the AAS is not mentioned anywhere within his literature.

That is not without specific reasoning.

I have found the Metu Neter incredibly enlightening (can't say the same of the Pert),

Not yet, anyways......Please trust, the more you read the former, the more the latter will become crystal clear.

both from the persepective of helping me understand the root behind the discussions here and seeing the obvious similarities in what I know to be the practice (behind the scenes) that goes on in other belief systems (namely southern black christians).

Very true. However.....

We shouldn't make the mistake of assuming our learned knowledge makes us privy to the actual spiritual practice of those that believe differently.

It is highly probable that not many of us know what has been revealed to our brothers and sisters, thus any assumption that our knowledge/study has relegated us to a position of spiritual superiority which only a select few others could possibly hope to attain should be rejected.

I have to disagree with much of this.

Just as we know that the cognitive development of humans proper is far different (dare I say superior?) to that of, say, Aardvarks, so too must we recognize the heirarchial difference in the various aspects of humanity.

Not everyone in this world is meant to be a king, president, rock star, doctor, a millionaire, etc. Someone has to fill the position of taking out the trash, selling newspapers on the corner, etc.

Similarly, Not everyone in this world (let alone here), is meant to be levetating, teleporting, reading minds, walking on water, flying on magic carpets, etc.

"As Above, So Below".

To have exotic aspirations for all of humanity, is a fool's errand. That is why we Initiates (both within and without the AAS) seek to gain knowledge of our Incarnation Objective....

This is our Raison D'Etre. To stray from this cosmological design, is to invite chaos into one's Spirit ("sphere of influence").

And, again, the result of this can be observed in virtually all aspects of life.

Peter Parker's Uncle once said, "with great power, comes great responsibility". We all know that knowledge is power.

We owe it to ourselves, as well as those under us (when ascending spiritually and mentally, there will always be someone under you, just as likely as there is for there to be someone over you), to make sure that this info is conveyed as accurately and condusively as possible.

Anything else, is an exercise in futility.

We've seen throughout history, how "Egyptian Knowledge" has come to be misused, perverted, misinterpreted, etc....And the result of such actions.

Let us strive to define ourselves in a different light, from those with malicious hands (governments, secret societies, etc), as well as those with plunderous hands (religions, doctors, lawyers, academia, etc).

Both hands can lay the asphalt to eternal damnation.

Let us not walk that path.

HOTEP

in my opininon the cart is pulling the horse meaning we are going backwards. We must introduce the neteru to every one and what they represent first. Then and only then when they are mentioned will the new student become comfortable with the material. Because all kemetic doctrines are based on the neters. in addition is not up to any one to give u your truth system it is exclusive to u
Excellent point. This would be a good way to dispel the myth of polytheism in Kemetic spirituality early on.

Brother Emanuel ... okay, i'm hearing you teach ... :teach: ... thanks for sharing!

I went and did a search on Neteru, because i'd never heard this term before. I found the following site, which looks really good in regard to listing the Neteru ... :) ... (smiling at myself, even using this word in conversation, as i never have before, thank you!) ... the site seems to be so good, that i wanted to just copy and paste everything here, but that would not be right or fair to that site owner.

The site, Myths & Neteru (http://www.geocities.com/titania_le_fey/mandneteru.html), provides this brief intro to the page ...

Among the Egyptians there were numerous Neteru (a word wrongly but roughly translated to gods). Every city had its own pantheon, every ruler thier patron.

To make this easier I shall explain how this site is set up. Below is a list of Neteru... if you click on a Neteru you will be taken to a page with a brief discription, an image or two and possibly a link to a myth or other tibbit such as related Neteru. (If you do not see the god you are looking for.. return in a few days. I am trying to add a couple pages or so each day.)

So Neteru are Gods? Is that right? And according to the list, images, info, etc., that this site owner has provided ... there are many Gods ... right?? Now that is something i didn't really know! Even though i've skimmed enough, heard enough, to halfway understand that there are numerous Gods, i never really understood it or consciously wrapped my mind around it. Okay. I gotta do that now i see ... :) ... no problem, i just never had anything concrete enough to initiate such. Okay, thanks again Brother Emanuel.

It looks like we need to start a thread on the Neteru, sharing and learning about the Gods.

The site owner also titles the page "Myth and Neteru (http://www.geocities.com/titania_le_fey/mandneteru.html)" ... which is kinda throw'n me off, as a myth in my mind, is something that is not real ... and associating it with Neteru, almost implies that it is not real either??!! Whew. Okay. Go slow Destee. Hmmmmm ... maybe i better go look up myth again. Speaking of looking up words, whew, simply studying this has presented so many words i've never really used before. I think we need a vocabulary thread too!

Brother Emanuel ... great suggestion, i'm seeing a little clearer already (i think) ... thank you !!! :bowdown: :bowdown:

:heart:

Destee

Sista Destee,

The concept of many gods is not something that shoud be unfamiliar to those of us who have come out of christianity. Although, unfortunately it is. Yet does it not say in your law, "I said ye are gods."
Psalms 82:1
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

I too had a hard time understanding the Kemetic concept of God. I was almost turned off by Ra Un Nefer Amen calling God It. But I decided to read on and find out what the deal was. I still can't call my Creator an It but I do understand that he is a force within me instead of floating up on the clouds somewhere as I was taught. As a child I used to wonder where heaven went when there were no clouds in the sky.

Then again if you read the bible you see that while God created man's body he did not create our spirits but breathed our spirits. That is what we are in essence, the breath of God. Or, as Sam and I like to say, a cup of water out of the ocean.

PEACE KEMETKIND:
Herein is where yet another myth surfaces:

You don't have to belong to the AAS in order to understand and live by this knowledge.

Moreover, that's not the point of becoming "initiated".

Initiation is a completely internal process. All the external stuff are simply formalities that can be easily avoided.

Of all the people here whom I'd endorsed previously, not all of them are members of the AAS--nor would I surmise that they want to be--at least, not in any official capacity.



I appreciate the above clarifications...they were helpful.

Many points in the remainder of your post deserve a serious vetting, which I intend to facilitate but haven't the time just yet.

I appreciate the above clarifications...they were helpful.

Many points in the remainder of your post deserve a serious vetting, which I intend to facilitate but haven't the time just yet.

Bump for reference...