A few proposed the other night in chat that it might be a powerful idea if we, as a group, select texts surrounding a particular belief system, and study them for a month (or three depending on the topic), discuss them here from our own black/african perspectives, with the goal of identifying truths or wisdom contained therein.

We could rotate through whatever system or text we deem to have any value for the spirituality of black people.

We could make this a multi-year on-going effort, and should enough momentum gather, we could task some of the great minds here to compile our conclusions into a living document that serves as a framework for spirituality.

This means we're having the audacity to create something new forged out of the power of our own collaboration and spiritual focus.

What do you think?

isn't that what ra un nefer amen did with the metu neter?

While I don't totally agree with what the Brother Elder has stated, I do recognize the sentiment that he is attempting to demonstrate.

A few proposed the other night in chat that it might be a powerful idea if we, as a group, select texts surrounding a particular belief system, and study them for a month (or three depending on the topic), discuss them here from our own black/african perspectives, with the goal of identifying truths or wisdom contained therein.

We could rotate through whatever system or text we deem to have any value for the spirituality of black people.

We could make this a multi-year on-going effort,

This is an exemplary idea. However:

and should enough momentum gather, we could task some of the great minds here to compile our conclusions into a living document that serves as a framework for spirituality.

This means we're having the audacity to create something new forged out of the power of our own collaboration and spiritual focus.

This is the aspect that I have a bit of an issue with.

I could be wrong in the way that I am interpreting your proposal, but it sounds as if you are attempting to re-invent the wheel (as per the Brother Elder's statement).......Is this correct?

If that is the case, I would highly recommend against it. I've seen the results of such an endeavor, and they are almost always detimental.

I would wager that you've seen the same as well, throughout history. Many philosophical, religious, and even political systems are the result of such attempts.

However, if I might, I'd like to offer an alternative:

I would wager that we do indeed perform the studies that you propose, but for different reasons.

Instead of seeking to create anything new, we should seek to gain the best understanding of what which is already old. I'm sure that you would agree, that Our People by and large do not have such an understanding.

When it comes to religion/spirituality, history, philosophy, etc., we as a People are always seeming to be on the business end of these various systems (meaning: staring at them through the barrel, instead of holding the trigger) These systems are often used as tools (weapons even) against us, which is a shame, since they were created by us to begin with.

I'm a firm adherent to the notion that the key to the future lies in the past.

Therefore, I would propose that we treat it strictly as many of us did in our Humanities and Comparative Religions class in school: seek to learn the info, simply for the sake of learning it.

Right now, what our people need most, is intellectual fortification. As a spiritual aspirant myself, I've seen the woes that manifest in spirituality that is devoid of intellect. Such is the difference between a spiritual aspirant, and a religious believer.

Regarding "Creating someting new".......

I recall you earlier in our acquaintance, that you are of a scientific discipline. Thus, I'm sure it is rudimentary for you, to know that matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

Spirituality, in essence, is the relation between the 2 primordial properties (all the more reason why I think that spirituality should be properly defined; not only for one's own sake, but also for the success of this possible endeavor that we are in fact discussing). ......

That which creates was also created. Thus, before we seek to assume a role in creating anything, we should first be striving to have an understanding of our place in creation.

I am of the mindset that just because people can give birth to children by design and function, doesn't mean that all people should be allowed to do so--at least not without proper wisdom to do such (which, then, is the entire point).

My spiritual teachings inform me that the Will to create is backed with an emotional attachment to creation. Prior to this act (or the sensation that sparked it), was simply awareness of Self on the part of the Creator.

If we are seeking to be in the image and likness of God, we then should focus on the knowing aspect (intellect) of the creator/creation relationship, instead of the emotive (values, judgements, etc) aspect.

If this is done constantly within the confines of a college campus setting, then it most assuredly can be done here, or any other non-controlled environment where Black people congregate.

Knowledge, for knowledge sake.

I hope that my perspective was clear; I can elaborate further if needed.

PEACE

I could be wrong in the way that I am interpreting your proposal, but it sounds as if you are attempting to re-invent the wheel (as per the Brother Elder's statement).......Is this correct?

Yes, somewhat, but with the ultimate goal of inventing something more efficient than a wheel, with respect to black people, since none of the wheels created thus far have worked well enough for us collectively, in this time.



If that is the case, I would highly recommend against it. I've seen the results of such an endeavor, and they are almost always detimental.
But why were they detrimental and who were they detrimental to?




I would wager that you've seen the same as well, throughout history. Many philosophical, religious, and even political systems are the result of such attempts.

Yes, and many of them have reaped impressive benefits for their proponents. Since we created a good number of these systems in the past, and had them stolen/plagiarized and used against us, what's stopping us from developing a improved/modernized one today?

Do we not have the same abilities to develop wisdom that our ancestors had?



Instead of seeking to create anything new, we should seek to gain the best understanding of what which is already old. I'm sure that you would agree, that Our People by and large do not have such an understanding.

Agreed. Understanding is the primary goal. If that understanding is achieved and it turns out to be the only desired goal, we will have still achieved a great deal.

But if through our increased and broadened understanding comes new insight, why shirk from it?

Can't our efforts be inspired by the creator?

If we truly believe we are the original man of the earth, aren't we as capable of greatness today, as they were then?

After we gain thorough understanding of other systems, and consider our situation today, we may conclude that there hasn't been a system yet that was perfect for all time.



I'm a firm adherent to the notion that the key to the future lies in the past.
The one key? Or one of the key(s).

I don't know that our ancestors had everything right, not for all time, else we'd not be where we are today.

I'd propose the keys in the past have to be combined with keys in the present to form a bridge to the future.

If we repeat exactly what was done in the past can we expect a different result in the future?


Therefore, I would propose that we treat it strictly as many of us did in our Humanities and Comparative Religions class in school: seek to learn the info, simply for the sake of learning it.
This makes sense to me especially as a start and for the foreseeable future.


Right now, what our people need most, is intellectual fortification. As a spiritual aspirant myself, I've seen the woes that manifest in spirituality that is devoid of intellect. Such is the difference between a spiritual aspirant, and a religious believer.

I see where you're coming from but I don't completely agree. I think a spiritual aspirant who follows a particular way of life with a particular set of rituals may express their spirituality through a religion.

I don't see that intellect and religion cannot be found in the same place, but i'm sure the distinction will be found in the definitions.



If we are seeking to be in the image and likness of God, we then should focus on the knowing aspect (intellect) of the creator/creation relationship, instead of the emotive (values, judgements, etc) aspect.

Could not agree more.



If this is done constantly within the confines of a college campus setting, then it most assuredly can be done here...

Could not agree more.


Knowledge, for knowledge sake.

Yes. That is all we could hope to achieve as an initial goal.

However eventually that knowledge will manifest itself in practical application, otherwise it has served us no purpose in acquiring it.

If that application only impacts how each person individually strengthens their spiritual base, then that is fine, we should all be better off individually because of it.

But if somehow the focused energy, brilliance, and determination of the many great minds here (current and future) results in a practical application that itself is the framework for a bonafide belief system, then why not document it, since that's what our ancestors have done?

Regardless, if the consensus is that we should only seek to acquire knowledge, that's a lofty enough challenge by itself.

(moves to change title of thread now)

I don't see any disagreement here. I see two blades of the same pair of scissors.

Yes, we must build on the wisdom our ancestors possessed. We must also build on that addendum that our own wisdom has given us. He who stands on the shoulders of another reaches higher than the one on whose shoulders he is standing.

One thing our ancestors were totally unprepared for the unslaught of white supremacy because their systems were developed at a time when such a thing was unheard of.

When I trained with my white cane my teacher taught me that if I ever become confused about where I am and which way to go I should go back to where I was when I kknew whare I was and from there start going in the right direction. It does no good to back to where you were and then follow the exact same path that got you lost in the first place.

Today, we live in a world unknown to our ancestors--a world with white people in it. In this world we have learned that there is nothing we can keep if we cannot protect it. We have learnedthat it is better to live on a land with poor resources and be in control of a land with rich resources than to live on a land with rich resources that is controlled by someone else. Our task is to forge a system that takes these unpleasant realities into consideration while at the same time holding onto the honor, justice, truth and love our ancestors taught. That is an h.e. double tooth pick of a task.

Some time ago brotha Sek quoted Albert Einstein "knowledge is experience. Everything else is mere information."

I don't see any disagreement here. I see two blades of the same pair of scissors.

Yes, we must build on the wisdom our ancestors possessed. We must also build on that addendum that our own wisdom has given us. He who stands on the shoulders of another reaches higher than the one on whose shoulders he is standing.

One thing our ancestors were totally unprepared for the unslaught of white supremacy because their systems were developed at a time when such a thing was unheard of.

When I trained with my white cane my teacher taught me that if I ever become confused about where I am and which way to go I should go back to where I was when I kknew whare I was and from there start going in the right direction. It does no good to back to where you were and then follow the exact same path that got you lost in the first place.

Today, we live in a world unknown to our ancestors--a world with white people in it. In this world we have learned that there is nothing we can keep if we cannot protect it. We have learnedthat it is better to live on a land with poor resources and be in control of a land with rich resources than to live on a land with rich resources that is controlled by someone else. Our task is to forge a system that takes these unpleasant realities into consideration while at the same time holding onto the honor, justice, truth and love our ancestors taught. That is an h.e. double tooth pick of a task.

Some time ago brotha Sek quoted Albert Einstein "knowledge is experience. Everything else is mere information."

I agree with all of this sister River!

One approach organize a start on this is to list out the all the systems we will study, order them, agree on the texts for the first one, and setup a schedule.

Before we do any of that we may want to create ground rules for how we engage and post them prominently in each thread.

Nothing should be beyond discussion or critique but we must do it with all the appreciation for our fellow brothers and sisters that we can muster.

Maybe we should come up with some title that identifies these threads as a series and ask that all who post do so only after first initiating meditating/prayer or whatever they need to do to align their spirit with the purpose.

In order to be holistic in our approach it is important to have an open mind to all diciplines and give them there day in the sun .I have allways overstood the importance of that. I would love to share my thoughts and greatly benefit from the thoughts of my brothers and sisters on this forum(which i already have).

I agree with all of this sister River!

One approach organize a start on this is to list out the all the systems we will study, order them, agree on the texts for the first one, and setup a schedule.

Before we do any of that we may want to create ground rules for how we engage and post them prominently in each thread.

Nothing should be beyond discussion or critique but we must do it with all the appreciation for our fellow brothers and sisters that we can muster.

Maybe we should come up with some title that identifies these threads as a series and ask that all who post do so only after first initiating meditating/prayer or whatever they need to do to align their spirit with the purpose.
Da River is flowing with you, brotha Kem.

I like the notion of bringing many ideas together for an idea is most dangerous when it is the only one you have.

A few proposed the other night in chat that it might be a powerful idea if we, as a group, select texts surrounding a particular belief system, and study them for a month (or three depending on the topic), discuss them here from our own black/african perspectives, with the goal of identifying truths or wisdom contained therein.

We could rotate through whatever system or text we deem to have any value for the spirituality of black people.

We could make this a multi-year on-going effort, and should enough momentum gather, we could task some of the great minds here to compile our conclusions into a living document that serves as a framework for spirituality.

This means we're having the audacity to create something new forged out of the power of our own collaboration and spiritual focus.

What do you think?

Brother Kemetkind ... you know i'm with you, let's do this!

As the effort grows, we may need to gather all of the threads together in their own forum.

I think it is very important that we do this in the best of manners, respecting every member beliefs, as you've already stated.

What's the first step, creating the lists of different religions / way of life that we'll study?

:heart:

Destee

Lets do it……………who wants to suggest the first random text……?

It should be text or a book that we all have on our bookshelf or have access to.

Below is a list of belief systems/topics and their associated texts listed from the table of contents of the following site:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/. I understand it is a euro site and a good many of these I'd personally have little interest in studying, but again it was only used to generate a list of freely available texts organized around themes.

Obviously there are key texts pertinent to us that are missing so please post them and we'll maintain a master list.

After that we need to propose an order that will make it easier for comparitive analysis.

If everyone will list their ordered top 5, we can take the aggregate from that and come up with a schedule for the first 5 topics and get started.

Africa
Medu Neter Vol I & II
Instructions of Ptah,
The 42 Precepts of Ma'at (also known as the Negative Confessions )
Knowing the Evolutions of Ra.
Pulling No Punches The Religious Factor
Pert Em Heru
The Bhagavad Ghita

1 The Religious System of the Amazulu
2 Specimens of Bushman Folklore
3 South African Folk-Tales
4 Xhosa Folk Tales
5 Myths and Legends of the Bantu
6 Myths of Ífè
7 Notes on the Folklore of the Fjort
8 At the Back of the Black Man's Mind
9 Folk Stories from Southern Nigeria
10 Fetichism in West Africa
11 Hausa Folklore
12 Woman's Mysteries of a Primitive People
13 The Yoruba Speaking Peoples
14 Drums and Shadows
15 Jamaica Anansi Stories
16 The Holy Piby
17 Last of the Voudoos
18 New Orleans Superstitions
19 Voodoo and Obeahs
20 Psychic Phenomena of Jamaica


Alchemy
21 Alchemy Rediscovered and Restored
22 The Hermetic Museum
23 Triumphal Chariot of Antimony by Basil Valentine
24 Golden Chain of Homer
25 Emerald Tablets of Thoth
26 Glory of the World
27 The Six Keys of Eudoxus
28 Freher's Process in the Philosophical Work
29 The Golden Tractate of Hermes Trismegistus
30 The Hermetic Arcanum
31 Hortulanus Commentary on the Emerald Tablet
32 The Stone of the Philosophers by Edward Kelly
33 Mary the Prophetess
34 An Alchemical Mass
35 The Mirror of Alchemy
36 On the Philadelphian Gold
37 Tract on the Tincture and Oil of Antimony by Roger Bacon
38 Turba Philosophorum (part 1)
39 Turba Philosophorum (part 2)
40 Coelum philosophorum by Paracelsus
41 The Book Concerning The Tincture Of The Philosophers by Paracelsus
42 The Treasure of Treasures for Alchemists by Paracelsus
43 The Aurora of the philosophers by Paracelsus
44 Alchemical Catechism
Americana
45 Pow-wows; or Long Lost Friend
46 Folk-Lore of the Pennsylvania Germans
47 The Realness of Witchcraft in America
48 Early Life of the Pennsylvania Germans
Ancient Near East
49 The Seven Tablets of Creation
50 The Enuma Elish (The Epic of Creation)
51 The Seven Evil Spirits
52 The Code of Hammurabi
53 The Religion Of Babylonia And Assyria
54 Legends of Babylonia and Egypt
55 The Chaldean Account of the Deluge
56 Ishtar and Izdubar {Gilgamesh}
57 Adapa and the food of Life
58 Descent of the Goddess Ishtar into the Lower World
59 The Babylonian Story of the Deluge and the Epic of Gilgamish.
Age of Reason
60 Roger Bacon
61 Giordano Bruno
62 Thomas Paine
63 Charles Darwin
64 Mark Twain
65 Robert G. Ingersoll
66 Clarence Darrow
Asia
67 Chukchee Mythology
68 Koryak Texts
69 Tales of Yukaghir, Lamut, and Russianized Natives of Eastern Siberia
Sky Lore
70 Moon Lore
71 An Introduction to Astrology
72 Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos
73 Astrology and Religion Among the Greeks and Romans
Atlantis
74 Plato: Critias
75 Vril, the Power of the Coming Race
76 Atlantis, the Antediluvian World
77 Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
78 The Book of Dzyan
79 The Story of Atlantis
80 The Lost Lemuria
81 A Dweller on Two Planets
82 How I Found the Lost Atlantis
83 The Sacred Symbols of Mu
Australia
84 Native Tribes of the Northern Territory of Australia
85 Images of Australian Rock Art
86 Australian Legendary Tales
87 The Euahlayi Tribe
88 The Customs and Traditions of the Aboriginal Natives of North Western Australia
89 The Aborigines of Western Australia
90 Some Myths and Legends of the Australian Aborigines
91 Australian Legends
Baha'i
92 The Kitab-i-Aqdas
93 The Kitab-i-Iqan (Book of Certitude)
94 Epistle to the Son of the Wolf
95 Selections from the Writings of the Bab
96 The Kitab-i-Aqdas (The Most Holy Book)
97 Epistle to the Son of the Wolf
98 Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah
99 The Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah
100 The Kitab-i-Iqan (The Book of Certitude)
101 Prayers and Meditations
102 Proclamation of Baha'u'llah
103 The Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys
104 Tablets of Baha'u'llah Revealed after the Kitab-i-Aqdas
105 Abdu'l-Baha in London
106 Foundations of World Unity
107 Memorials of the Faithful
108 Paris Talks
109 The Promulgation of Universal Peace
110 The Secret of Divine Civilization
111 Selections from the Writings of `Abdu'l-Baha
112 Some Answered Questions
113 Tablets of 'Abdu'l-Baha
114 Tablet to August Forel
115 Tablets of the Divine Plan
116 A Travellers Narrative
117 The Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha
118 The Advent of Divine Justice
119 Arohanui: Letters to New Zealand
120 Baha'i Administration
121 Citadel of Faith
122 The Dawn of a New Day
123 Directives from the Guardian
124 God Passes By
125 High Endeavours: Messages to Alaska
126 Letters from the Guardian to Australia and New Zealand
127 The Light of Divine Guidance (volume 1) [Message to Germany and Austria]
128 The Light of Divine Guidance (volume 2)
129 Messages to America
130 The Promised Day is Come
131 Unfolding Destiny
132 The World Order of Baha'u'llah
133 Baha'u'llah and the New Era by Esslemont
134 The Dawn Breakers by Nabil
135 Footnotes to French ed. of The Dawn Breakers
136 The Prosperity of Humankind
137 Statement on Baha'u'llah
138 The Promise of World Peace
139 Baha'i Prayers
140 Baha'i World Faith
141 Baha'i Education
142 Japan Will Turn Ablaze
143 Peace
144 Scholarship
145 Women
Bible
146 King James version
147 The Apocrypha
148 Vulgate
149 The Septuagint
150 Greek New Testament
151 the Tanakh
152 the Jewish Publication Society version
153 Easton's Bible Dictionary
154 Bible Maps
155 The Forgotten Books of Eden
156 The Biblical Antiquities of Philo
157 The Book of Enoch
158 The Book of Jubilees
Buddhism
159 A Buddhist Bible
160 Buddha, the Gospel
161 Buddha, the Word
162 Jataka Tales
163 Journal Articles about Buddhism
164 The Smokey the Bear Sutra
165 The Dhammapada and The Sutta Nipâta,
166 Buddhist Suttas
167 Vinaya Texts (Part I)
168 Vinaya Texts (Part II)
169 The Questions of King Milinda
170 Dialogues of the Buddha
171 Buddhism in Translations
172 The Udâna
173 Psalms of the Sisters
174 Buddhist Mahâyâna Texts
175 Saddharma-pundarîka (The Lotus Sutra)
176 She-rab Dong-bu (The Tree of Wisdom)
177 The Awakening of Faith of Ashvagosha
178 Buddhism In Tibet
179 The Religion of the Samurai
180 Manual of Zen Buddhism
181 Gleanings In Buddha-Fields
182 The Book of Tea
Confucianism
183 Confucian Canon
184 Five Classics
185 Sacred Books of The East, Vol. 3
186 Traditional Chinese Beliefs
187 The Confucian Canon in Chinese and English
188 Confucian Analects (Lun Yü)
189 Mencius
190 The Great Learning (Ta Hsüeh)
191 The Doctrine Of The Mean (Chung Yung)
192 Sacred Books of the East, Volume 3
193 Sacred Books of the East, Volume 27
194 Sacred Books of the East, Volume 28
195 The Shu Ching
196 The Shih Ching
197 The Li Ki Part I
198 The Li Ki Part II
199 The Hsiao Ching
200 The Shundai Zatsuwa (A Japanese Philosopher)
201 Feng Shui
202 The Art of War
Christianity
203 The Apocrypha
204 Pistis Sophia
205 Corpus Hermeticum
206 The Hymn of Jesus, Echoes from the Gnosis
207 Gnostic John the Baptizer
208 The Book of Giants
209 The Gospel of Thomas
210 The Lord's Prayer
211 Hail Mary (Ave Maria)
212 The Apostles' Creed
213 Nicene Creed
214 Latin Mass: Ordinary of the Mass (the Tridentine Ordo).
215 The Athanasian Creed
216 The Confessions Of Saint Augustine
217 Writings of the Early Church Fathers
218 The Book of the Bee
219 The Book of the Cave of Treasures
220 The Kebra Nagast
221 The Divine Comedy
222 Texts of Martin Luther
223 Foxe's Book of Martyrs
224 Synod of Dordrecht
225 Heidelberg Catechism
226 The Second Helvetic Confession
227 Church Order
228 Liturgy of the Reformed Churches of the Netherlands
229 Westminster Shorter Catechism
230 The Westminster Confession Of Faith
231 Westminster Larger Catechism
232 Paradise Lost, Paradise Regained
233 Pilgrim's Progress
234 Bunyan
235 Angelus Silesius
236 Unitarian Christianity
237 New England Primer
238 The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ
239 Shaker documents
240 The Baltimore (Catholic) Catechism
241 The Seeming Unreality of the Spiritual Life
242 Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures
243 John Wesley's Place in History
244 The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ
245 The Gist of Swedenborg
246 The Political Aspects of S. Augustine's 'City of God'
247 Human Nature in the Bible
248 The Theological Declaration of Barmen
249 The (Episcopal) Book of Common Prayer
Apocrypha
250 Slavonic Life of Adam and Eve
251 The Books of Adam and Eve
252 The Book of Jasher
253 Excerpts from the Gospel of Mary
Luther
254 Small Catechism
255 Large Catechism
256 Enemies of the Cross of Christ
257 Christ Our Great High Priest
258 The Twofold Use of the Law & Gospel: "Letter" & "Spirit"
259 Of The Office of Preaching
260 The Parable of the Sower
261 Christ's Holy Sufferings
262 On Faith & Coming to Christ
263 The Wheat & The Tares
264 Address to the Nobility
Classics
265 The Iliad of Homer
266 The Odyssey of Homer
267 The Homeric Hymn to Demeter
268 The Iliad and Odyssey of Homer in Greek
269 Hesiod's Theogony
270 Works and Days
271 The Hymns of Orpheus
272 The Poems of Sappho
273 The Poems of Sappho (Unicode)
274 The Songs of Bilitis
275 The Fables of Aesop
276 The Dramas of Aeschylus
277 The Works of Aristotle
278 The Dramas of Sophocles
279 The Dramas of Euripides
280 The Dialogues of Plato
281 The Golden Verses of Pythagoras
282 The Aeneid
283 The Eclogues
284 The Georgics
285 The Golden Asse
286 The Most Pleasant and Delectable Tale of The Marriage of Cupid and Psyche
287 The Enneads of Plotinus
288 Meditations
289 On The Nature Of Things
290 Metamorphoses
291 Amores, Ars Amatoria, Remedia Amoris and Medicamina Faciei Femineae
292 The Satyricon of Petronius
293 Two Orations of the Emperor Julian
294 Bulfinch's Mythology
295 The Heroes, or Greek Fairy Tales for my Children
296 The Sibylline Oracles
297 Myths of Crete and Pre-Hellenic Europe
298 The Dionysian Artificers
299 Ancient Fragments
300 The Mysteries of Mithra
301 The Oriental Religions in Roman Paganism
302 Pagan Regeneration
303 Taboo, Magic, Spirits:
304 The Religion of Numa
305 Pagan and Christian Creeds
Aeschylus
306 Agamemnon
307 The Choephori
308 Eumenides
309 The Persians
310 Prometheus Bound
311 The Seven Against Thebes
312 The Suppliants
Aristotle
313 The Nicomachean Ethics
314 On Generation and Corruption
315 On The Heavens
316 Poetics
317 Politics
Euripides
318 The Trojan Women
319 Alcestis
320 Andromache
321 The Bacchantes
322 The Cyclops
323 Electra
324 Hecuba
325 Helen
326 The Heracleidae
327 Heracles
328 Hippolytus
329 Ion
330 Iphigenia in Tauris
331 Iphigenia At Aulis
332 Medea
333 Orestes
334 The Phoenissae
335 Rhesus
336 The Suppliants
337 The Trojan Women
Hesiod
338 Works and Days
339 The Theogony
340 The Theogony in Greek
Homer
341 The Iliad of Homer
342 The Odyssey of Homer
343 The Iliad and Odyssey [Unicode Greek]
344 The Homeric Hymns
345 The Adventures of Odysseus and the Tale of Troy
346 Homeric Fragments
347 Fragments of the Epic Cycle.
348 The Cypria (Fragments)
349 Aethiopis (Fragments)
350 The Little Iliad (Fragments)
351 The Sack of Ilium (fragments)
352 The Returns and The Telegony (Fragments)
353 The Battle of Frogs and Mice.
354 The Contest of Homer and Hesiod.
Ovid
355 The Metamorphoses
356 The Love Books of Ovid
Plato
357 Charmides, or Temperance
358 Cratylus
359 Critias
360 Crito
361 Euthydemus
362 Euthyphro
363 Gorgias
364 Ion
365 Laches or Courage
366 Laws
367 Lysis, or Friendship
368 Meno
369 Parmenides
370 Phaedo
371 Phaedrus
372 Philebus
373 Protagoras
374 The Republic
375 The Seventh Letter
376 Sophist
377 Statesman
378 Symposium
379 Theaetetus
380 Timaeus
Sophocles
381 Ajax
382 Antigone
383 Electra
384 Oedipus the King
385 Oedipus at Colonus
386 Philoctetes
387 The Trachiniae
Virgil
388 The Eclogues
389 The Georgics
390 The Aeneid of Virgil
DNA
391 First 1000 lines of Chromosome One of the Human Genome
Egypt
392 The Pyramid Texts
393 The Egyptian Book of the Dead
394 The Egyptian Heaven and Hell
395 The Liturgy of Funerary Offerings
396 The Demotic Magical Papyrus of London and Leiden
397 Legends of the Gods: The Egyptian Texts
398 The Burden of Isis
399 The Wisdom of the Egyptians
400 Tutankhamen: Amenism, Atenism and Egyptian Monotheism
401 Egyptian Mythology and Egyptian Christianity
402 Egyptian Ideas of the Future Life
403 Egyptian Magic
404 Egyptian Myth and Legend
Esoteric
405 Tertium Organum
406 The Secret Teachings of All Ages
407 The Science of Mind
408 The Calls of Enoch
409 Historic Lecture
410 The Chaldæan Oracles
411 Principia Discordia
412 The Temporary Autonomous Zone, Ontological Anarchy, Poetic Terrorism by Hakim Bey
Miscellaneous
413 Ophiolatreia
414 Bygone Beliefs
415 The Book of Noodles
416 The Book of Nature Myths
417 Funeral Customs
418 The Magic of Horse-Shoes, with other Folk-Lore Notes
419 A Study of Fairy Tales
420 Dragons and Dragon Lore
Evil
421 The History of the Devil
422 The Evil Eye
Fortean
423 Book of the Damned
424 New Lands
Gothic
425 The Vampire, his Kith and Kin
426 The Book of Were-Wolves
427 Frankenstein
428 The Vampyre
429 Dracula
430 Lair of the White Worm
431 Vikram and The Vampire
432 The Vampire Codex
Grimoires
433 The Magus
434 The Book of Ceremonial Magic
435 Sixth Book of Moses
436 Seventh Book of Moses
437 The Key of Solomon The King
438 The Lesser Key of Solomon
Hinduism
439 The Rig-Veda
440 Rig-Veda (Sanskrit)
441 The Sama-Veda
442 The Yajur Veda
443 The Atharva-Veda
444 A Vedic Reader for Students
445 The Upanishads
446 The Upanishads, Part I (SBE 1)
447 The Upanishads, Part II (SBE 15)
448 The Laws of Manu
449 The Sacred Laws of the Âryas, Part I
450 The Sacred Laws of the Âryas, Part II
451 The Institutes of Vishnu
452 Rámáyan Of Válmíki
453 The Ramayana and Mahabharata
454 Indian Idylls
455 The Bhagavadgîtâ
456 The Bhagavad Gita
457 The Vedântâ-Sûtras
458 The Vedântâ-Sûtras
459 The Vedântâ-Sûtras
460 The Devî Gita
461 The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali
462 The Sánkhya Aphorisms of Kapila
463 Twenty-two Goblins
464 Indian Fairy Tales
465 Old Deccan Days
466 Journal articles: Hinduism
467 Songs of Kabîr
468 Works of Rabindranath Tagore
469 Sanskrit dictionary
I Ching
470 Contents
Islam
471 Hypertext Qur'an
472 Unicode Qur'an
473 The Holy Qur'an: Arabic Text, Pronunciation Guide, Yusuf Ali English Text
474 The {meaning of the} Qur'an
475 The {meaning of the} Qur'an
476 A Manual of Hadith
477 Hadith of Bukhari
478 A Sufi Message of Spritual Liberty
479 The Enclosed Garden of the Truth
480 The Kasîdah of Hâjî Abdû El-Yezdî
481 The Mystics of Islam
482 The Mishkât Al-Anwar
483 The Alchemy of Happiness
484 The Masnavi of Rumi
485 The Gulistan Of Sa'di
486 The Teachings of Hafiz
487 The Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam
488 The Prophets, Their Lives and Their Stories
489 The Bible, The Koran, and the Talmud
490 The Hanged Poems
491 Christ In Islâm
492 The Gospel of Barnabas
493 Ismā‛īlī materials
Jain
494 Akaranga Sutra
495 Kalpa Sutra
496 A Treatise on Jainism
497 Ten Virtues Of Monks
498 Twelve Reflections or Bhavnas
499 Twelve Vows Of Layperson
500 Fourteen Auspicious Dreams
501 Five Bodies and Eight Vargnas
502 Five Great Vows (Maha-vratas)
503 Six Universal Substances (Dravyas)
504 Meaning Of Ashta Prakari Puja
505 Nine Tattvas (Principles)
Judaism
506 The Babylonian Talmud
507 Sayings of the Jewish Fathers (Pirqe Aboth)
508 Hebraic Literature
509 Legends of the Jews
510 The Kabbalah Unveiled
511 Kabbalah - Sepher Yetzirah
512 Tales and Maxims from the Midrash
513 The Sacred Books and Early Literature of the East, Vol. IV: Medieval Hebrew
514 Midrash Tanhuma
515 The Works of Flavius Josephus
516 The Guide for the Perplexed
517 Reform Judaism - 1885 Pittsburgh Conference
518 Articles of Faith from the Jewish Encyclopedia
519 The Columbus Platform: The Guiding Principles Of Reform Judaism (1937)
520 Reform Judaism - A Centenary Perspective
521 Maimonides: Ani Maamin - I believe...
522 Solomon Schechter - Studies in Judaism - The Dogmas of Judaism
523 The Thirteen Wants by Mordecai M. Kaplan
524 The Great March
525 Tract Sabbath
526 Tracts Erubin, Shekalim, Rosh Hashana
527 Tracts Pesachim, Yomah and Hagiga
528 Tracts Betzh, Succah, Moed Katan, Taanith, Megilla and Ebel Rabbathi or Semahoth
529 Tracts Aboth, Derech Eretz-Rabba, Derech Eretz-Zuta, and Baba Kama (First Gate)
530 Tract Baba Kama (First Gate), Part II and Tract Baba Metzia (Middle Gate)
531 Tract Baba Bathra (Last Gate)
532 Tract Sanhedrin: Section Jurisprudence (Damages)
533 Tracts Maccoth, Shebuoth, Eduyoth, Abuda Zara, and Horioth
534 History of the Talmud
Freemasonry
535 The Official Monitor of the Grand Lodge of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons, State of Texas
536 The Builders
537 Morals and Dogma
538 Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor
Mormonism
539 The Book of Mormon
540 Pearl of Great Price
541 Doctrine and Covenants
542 The Articles of Faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
543 Tenderfoot Days
544 The Story of Mormonism
545 Under the Prophet in Utah
546 The Book of Abraham,
547 The Angel of the Prairies, A Dream of the Future
548 About The Angel of the Prairies
Native American
549 Tales of the North American Indians
550 The Soul of the Indian
551 Indian Why Stories
552 Old Indian Legends
Aztec
553 Rig Veda Americanus (Aztec Hymns)
554 The Myths of Mexico and Peru
California
555 Religion of the Indians of California
556 Myths and Legends of California and the Old Southwest
557 Indian Myths Of South Central California.
558 Miwok Myths
559 The Dawn of the World
560 Indians of the Yosemite Valley and Vicinity
561 The Lore and the Lure of The Yosemite
562 Creation Myths of Primitive America
563 Maidu Texts
564 Hupa Texts
565 Yana Texts
566 Achomawi and Atsugewi Tales and Achomawi Myths
567 Chinigchinich
568 The Mythology of the Diegeños
569 A Saboba Origin-Myth
570 The Legend of Tauquitch and Algoot
571 The Story of the Chaup; A Myth of the Diegueños
572 Mythology of the Mission Indians
573 Two Myths of the Mission Indians
574 Ceremonies and Traditions of the Diegueño Indians
575 Some Western Shoshoni Myths
Cherokee
576 Sacred Formulas of the Cherokee
577 Myths of the Cherokee
578 The Cherokee Ball Play
Hopi
579 Traditions of the Hopi
580 Truth of a Hopi
Inca
581 The Shepherd And The Daughter Of The Sun
582 Viracocha And The Coming Of The Incas
583 Death Of Pachacuti Inca Yupanqui
584 The Festival of The Sun
585 Three Inca Prayers
586 Apu Ollantay
587 Narratives of the Rites and Laws of the Yncas
Inuit
588 Eskimo of Siberia
589 Tales and Traditions of the Eskimo
590 Eskimo Folk-tales
Iroquois
591 Iroquoian Cosmology
592 Seneca Indian Myths
593 The Code of Handsome Lake
594 The Iroquois Book of Rites
Maya
595 The Book of Chilam Balam of Chumayel
596 The Book of the People: Popol Vuh
597 The Popul Vuh
Navajo
598 Origin Myths of the Navaho Indians
599 The Mountain Chant, A Navajo Ceremony
600 Navaho Myths, Prayers, and Songs
601 Noqoìlpi, the Gambler: A Navajo Myth
602 The Navajo Indians
Northeast
603 Walam Olum
604 The Algonquin Legends of New England
Northwest
605 Coos Texts
606 Chinook Texts
607 Kwakiutl Tales
608 Haida Songs
609 Tsimshian Texts (Nass River Dialect)
610 Tsimshian Texts (New Series)
611 Tlingit Myths and Texts
612 Many Swans: Sun Myth of the North American Indians
Plains
613 Jicarilla Apache Texts
614 The Sun Dance and Other Ceremonies of the Oglala Division of The Teton Dakota.
615 Death and Funeral Customs among the Omahas
616 Old Indian Legends
617 Myths and Legends of the Sioux
South America
618 An Inquiry into the Animism and Folk-Lore of the Guiana Indians.
619 Legends and Myths of the Aboriginal Indians of British Guiana.
Southeast
620 Myths and Tales of the Southeastern Indians
Southwest
621 The Delight Makers
622 Pueblo Indian Folk-Stories
623 Tales of the Cochiti Indians
624 Dancing Gods
625 Origin Myth of Acoma
626 The Tribes of the Thirty-Fifth Parallel
627 Aw-aw-tam Indian Nights (Myths and Legends of the Pima)
Zuñi
628 Table of Zuñi Sounds
629 Introduction to Zuñi Ceremonialism
630 Zuñi Origin Myths
631 Zuñi Ritual Poetry
632 Cushing: Zuñi Folk Tales
633 Outline of Zuñi Mytho-Sociologic Organization
634 Zuñi Fetiches
635 Remarks on Shamanism
636 Form and Form and the Dance Drama
637 Corn Raising: The Decay of the Seed
638 Corn Raising: The Regeneration of the Seed
639 Clowns, Priests, and Festivals of the Kâ'-kâ
640 Creation and the Origin of Corn
Legends/Sagas
641 Teutonic Myth and Legend
642 The 1001 Arabian Nights (Burton, tr.)
643 The 1001 Arabian Nights (Lang, ed.)
644 The Hero of Esthonia
645 Baltic Wizards
646 Basque Folklore
647 Celtic Folklore
648 Folk Tales From the Russian
649 The Songs of the Russian People
650 Roumanian Fairy Tales and Legends
651 Heroic Ballads of Servia
652 England
653 The Kalevala (English)
654 The Kalevala (Finnish)
655 Baltic Wizards
656 The Song of Roland
657 Wagner's Ring of the Niblung
658 The Nibelungenlied
659 Grimm's Household Tales
660 Summer Legends
661 Icelandic Lore
662 The Shah Namah
663 Popular Tales from the Norse
664 The Danish History of Saxo Grammaticus
665 Heimskringla or The Chronicle of the Kings of Norway
666 Legends and Romances of Spain
667 The Lay of the Cid
Basque
668 Legends and Popular Tales of the Basque People
669 Basque Legends
Celtic
670 Celtic Midi files
671 The Second Battle of Mag Tuired (Cath Maige Tuired)
672 The Cattle-Raid of Cooley (Táin Bó Cúailnge)
673 The Destruction of Dá Derga's Hostel
674 Heroic Romances of Ireland (2 Vols.)
675 Cuchulain of Muirthemne
676 Gods and Fighting Men
677 A Book of Saints and Wonders
678 Visions and Beliefs in the West of Ireland
679 The Celtic Twilight
680 Legends and Stories of Ireland
681 The Irish Sketch-book
682 Ancient Legends, Mystic Charms, and Superstitions of Ireland
683 Myths and Folklore of Ireland
684 Legendary Fictions of the Irish Celts
685 The Aran Islands
686 Celtic Wonder Tales
687 Beside the Fire
688 The Crock of Gold
689 In Wicklow and West Kerry
690 The King of Ireland's Son
691 The Candle of Vision
692 Irish Fairy Tales
693 The Mabinogion
694 The Four Ancient Books of Wales
695 Prolegomena to the Study of Old Welsh Poetry
696 The Gododdin Poems
697 British Goblins
698 The Welsh Fairy Book
699 Celtic Folklore: Welsh and Manx
700 Popular Tales of the West Highlands
701 The Poems of Ossian
702 The Secret Common-Wealth of Elves, Fauns and Fairies
703 Fairy Legends and Traditions
704 The Fairy Mythology
705 British Goblins
706 The Science of Fairy Tales
707 Tales of Fairies and of the Ghost World
708 The Fairy-Faith in Celtic Countries
709 Fairies
710 The Religion of the Ancient Celts
711 Celtic Fairy Tales
712 More Celtic Fairy Tales
713 Myths and Legends of the Celtic Race
714 On the Study of Celtic Literature
715 A Book of Folklore
716 Tom *** Tot, An Essay on Savage Philosophy in Folk-Tale
England
717 The English and Scottish Popular Ballads
718 Robin Hood
719 A Book of Old English Ballads
720 The Origins of Popular Superstitions and Customs
721 Popular Romances of the West of England
722 English Fairy and Other Folk Tales
723 English Fairy Tales
724 More English Fairy Tales
725 The Coming of the Fairies
726 Tales of the Dartmoor Pixies
727 A Peep at the Pixies, or Legends of the West
728 Early British Trackways, Moats, Mounds, Camps and Sites
729 The Complete Corpus of Anglo-Saxon Poetry
730 Beowulf (Modern English)
731 Beowulf (Anglo-Saxon)
732 The Faerie Queene
733 Stories from the Faerie Queene
734 Le Morte d'Arthur
735 The Mabinogion
736 Cliges
737 Erec et Enide
738 The High History of the Holy Graal
739 From Ritual To Romance
740 The Idylls of the King
741 King Arthur: Tales of the Round Table
742 The Champions of the Round Table
743 The Vita Merlini
Iceland
744 The Story of Burnt Njal
745 The Story of Gisli the Outlaw
746 The Children of Odin
Nostradamus
747 Preface
748 English and French text
749 The Oracles of Nostradamus
750 Did Nostradamus predict the WTC disaster?
Oahaspe
751 Oahspe, A Kosmon Bible in the Words of Jehovih and his Angel Embassadors
752 Book of Knowledge
753 The Origin of Oahspe
Thelema
754 Liber B vel Magi
755 Message of The Master Therion, The
756 Liber III vel Jugorum
757 Liber ABA (Magick)
758 Liber V vel Reguli
759 Liber O vel Manus et Sagitae
760 Liber Liberi vel Lapidis Lazuli
761 8th Aether Liber CCCCXVIII
762 Liber E
763 Liber Porta Lucis
764 Liber NU
765 Liber Graduum Montis Abiegni
766 Ecclesi� Gnostic� Catholicae Canon Missae
767 Liber Turris vel Domus Dei
768 Khing Kang King - The Classic of Purity
769 The Star Ruby
770 Liber Trigrammaton
771 Liber Librae - The Book of the Balance
772 Diary of Frater Achad, The
773 An Account of A.�.A.�.
774 The Star Sapphire
775 Thien Tao
776 The Mass of the Phoenix
777 Collected writings of Jack Parsons, The
778 Lost Continent, The
779 Manifesto of the OTO
780 Chymical Jousting of Brother Perardua, The
781 The Qabalah
782 Across the Gulf
783 Liber Causae
784 Liber Israfel
785 Liber Cordis Cincti Serpente
786 Liber Stellae Rubeae
787 The Sword of Song
788 Liber LXX - The Cross of a Frog
789 Liber OZ
790 On the Tarot
791 Liber Chanokh
792 Liber Tzaddi vel Hamus Hermeticus
793 Fountain of Hyacinth, The
794 A Handbook of Geomancy
795 Soror Achitha's Vision - The Amalantrah Working
796 An Open Letter to those who may wish to join the Order
797 Concerning Death
798 Liber Aleph
799 Ritual of passing through the Tuat, The
800 Soldier and the hunchback, The
801 De Lege Libellum
802 Liber Cheth vel Vallum Abiegni
803 Tao Teh Ching
804 Law of Thelema, The
805 Liber Astarte vel Liber Berylli
806 Liber Colegii Sancti
807 Liber XIII
808 An Intimation with Reference to the Constitution of the Order
809 Sir Palamedes the saracen knight
810 Liber Resh vel Helios
811 Liber RU vel Spiritus
812 A syllabus of the official instructions of the A.*.A.*.
813 The I Ching
814 Liber AL vel Legis
815 Liber Arcanorum
816 AHA!
817 Khaps am Pekht
818 Book of lies, The
819 Adonis an Allegory
820 Liber H.H.H.
821 AMRITA
822 Liber A'ash vel Capricorni Pneumatici
823 Liber Tau vel Kabbalae Trium Literarum
824 Liber A vel Armorum
825 Vision and the Voice, The
826 Liber CDLI - Eroto-comatose Lucidity
827 Liber Os Abysmi vel Daath
828 Liber Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia
829 Liber HAD
830 Liber DCCCXIII vel Ararita
831 De Thaumaturgia
832 Liber DCLXXI vel Pyramidos
833 Liber Samekh
834 Energised Enthusiasm
835 Ararita
836 Liber Yod
837 Law of Liberty, The
838 John St. John
839 Liber Viarum Viae
840 The Gospel According to Saint Bernard Shaw
841 Liber ThIShARB
842 Treasurehouse of Images, The
843 Liber MCLI
844 A Note on Genesis
Pacific
845 Oceanic Mythology
846 Te Pito Te Henua, Or Easter Island
847 Polynesian Mythology
848 Maori Religion and Mythology
849 The Lore of the Whare-Wananga
850 The Kumulipo, A Hawaiian Creation Chant
851 Unwritten Literature of Hawaii: The Sacred Songs of the Hula
852 Legends of Maui
853 Hawaiian Legends of Old Honolulu
854 Hawaiian Legends of Volcanoes
855 Hawaiian Legends of Ghosts and Ghost-Gods
856 The Samoan Story of Creation
857 Baloma; the Spirits of the Dead in the Trobriand Islands
Neopaganism/Wicca
858 The Gardnerian Book of Shadows
859 The works of Margaret Murray
860 The Witch-Cult in Western Europe
861 The Golden Bough
862 Aradia, Gospel of the Witches
863 Etruscan Roman Remains in Popular Tradition
864 Gypsy Sorcery and Fortune Telling
865 Letters on Demonology and Witchcraft
866 Irish Druids and Old Irish Religions
867 The Veil of Isis or Mysteries of the Druids
868 The Malleus Maleficarum
869 Dæmonology
870 The Witch-Persecutions
871 The Book of Hallowe'en
872 Irish Witchcraft and Demonology
Prophecy
873 The Prophecies of Paracelsus
874 Mother Shipton Investigated
Tolkien
875 The Wood Beyond the World
876 The Worm Ouroboros
Sacred Sexuality
877 Kama Sutra of Vatsayayana
878 The Ananga Ranga
879 The Royal Museum at Naples
880 A Discourse on the Worship of Priapus/Worship of the Generative Powers
881 A Discourse on the Worship of Priapus
882 The Worship of the Generative Powers
883 The Masculine Cross and Ancient Sex Worship
884 Influence of the Phallic Idea in the Religions of Antiquity
885 Phallic Worship
886 The Perfumed Garden
Shamanism
887 Shamanism in Siberia
888 Shaman, Saiva and Sufi
889 Animism
Ainu
890 Aino Folk-Tales
891 Specimens of Ainu Folk-lore
892 Yukara, epos of the Ainus
893 Kutune Shirka, The Ainu Epic
Sikhism
894 The Sikh Religion
895 Shri Guru Granth Sahib
Taoism
896 Tao-te Ching
897 Volume 39 of the Sacred Books of the East.
898 Volume 40 of the Sacred Books of the East.
899 The Canon of Reason and Virtue
900 Taoist Teachings Translated from the Book of Lieh-Tzü
901 Yang Chu's Garden of Pleasure
902 T'ai Shang Kan-Ying P'ien
903 Yin Chih Wen, The Tract of the Quiet Way
904 Taoist Texts
905 Tao, The Great Luminant
Tarot
906 The Pictorial Key to the Tarot
907 The Tarot of the Bohemians
908 The Tarot
909 The Symbolism of the Tarot
910 Get a Tarot Reading
911 Rider-Waite-Smith Tarot Deck Copyright FAQ
912 Tarot Card Cross-reference
913 Tarot Card Comparison
Theosophy
914 Isis Unveiled
915 The Secret Doctrine
916 A Textbook of Theosophy
UFOs
917 The Flying Saucers Are Real
Utopia
918 Utopia
919 Cæsar's Column
920 The Iron Heel
Women
921 Vindication of the Rights Of Woman
922 The Subjection of Women
923 Clothed With The Sun
924 Woman, Church, and State
925 The Woman's Bible
926 Woman and the New Race
927 The Amazons
928 Religious Cults Associated with the Amazons
929 The Book of the Goddess
930 Folk-Lore of Women
Zoroastrianism
931 Avesta: Vendidad
932 Khorda Avesta: Book of Common Prayer pt. 1
933 Khorda Avesta: Book of Common Prayer pt. 2
934 Avesta: Yasna
935 Avesta: Visperad
936 Avesta Fragments
937 Pahlavi Texts, Part I: The Bundahis-Bahman Yast and Shayâst Lâ-Shâyast
938 Dadestan-i Denig
939 Menog-i Khrad
940 Sad Dar

1. Traditional African
2. Islam
3. Judaic
4. Christianity
5. Buddhism

Daaayum Kem. did you get any sleep at all lat night?

I would also have to choose African. I would reclaim number 25 which is actually titled the Emerald Tablets of Thoth. Thoth or Tehuti is a kemetic diety whom the Greeks borrowed and renammed Hermes.

Also under Africa would be the Instructions of Ptah, the 42 Precepts of Ma'at (also known as the Negative Confessions ) and Knowing the Evolutions of Ra. I will not list the Pert em Heru knowing that Sam will list it.

As for other systems--Buddhism, Dravidianism (not Hinduism) Zorastrianism and Taoism.

Daaayum Kem. did you get any sleep at all lat night?

I would also have to choose African. I would reclaim number 25 which is actually titled the Emerald Tablets of Thoth. Thoth or Tehuti is a kemetic diety whom the Greeks borrowed and renammed Hermes.

Also under Africa would be the Instructions of Ptah, the 42 Precepts of Ma'at (also known as the Negative Confessions ) and Knowing the Evolutions of Ra. I will not list the Pert em Heru knowing that Sam will list it.

As for other systems--Buddhism, Dravidianism (not Hinduism) Zorastrianism and Taoism.


TY sister River I made the additions. I didn't research all those I copied them from the sacred texts site.

I think we can access them all there online for free or order them on a CD for $50.

We just need a couple more to list their first 5 systems then we can decide on the texts and get this started.

ok im confused?

Daaayum Kem. did you get any sleep at all lat night?

I would also have to choose African. I would reclaim number 25 which is actually titled the Emerald Tablets of Thoth. Thoth or Tehuti is a kemetic diety whom the Greeks borrowed and renammed Hermes.

Also under Africa would be the Instructions of Ptah, the 42 Precepts of Ma'at (also known as the Negative Confessions ) and Knowing the Evolutions of Ra. I will not list the Pert em Heru knowing that Sam will list it.

As for other systems--Buddhism, Dravidianism (not Hinduism) Zorastrianism and Taoism.


I must have only only african or cosmonology material for that is all i can trust any one out of that genre is find with me pick a book and give me the isbn# and lets get to it!!!!:teach:

1. Traditional African
2. Islam
3. Judaic
4. Christianity
5. Buddhism

Brother Kemetkind ... yours are also mine. One thing about the categories we've listed as our top 5 choices ... there are many different variations within each, will we have to list all of them, and cover them in the same manner? Or are we simply taking the religion as a whole, and working from there?

Can we create an outline that will be applicable to all, so that we can follow it no matter the religion we are studying, make it at least appear (fair) that we are considering the same things for each? It would also help us to stay on track, which i can imagine will be a challenge, given our experience with the discussion of religions. I would offer to create the outline, but i don't know enough about any of this to do that. Whatcha think?

:heart:

Destee

Brother Kemetkind ... yours are also mine. One thing about the categories we've listed as our top 5 choices ... there are many different variations within each, will we have to list all of them, and cover them in the same manner? Or are we simply taking the religion as a whole, and working from there?

Can we create an outline that will be applicable to all, so that we can follow it no matter the religion we are studying, make it at least appear (fair) that we are considering the same things for each? It would also help us to stay on track, which i can imagine will be a challenge, given our experience with the discussion of religions. I would offer to create the outline, but i don't know enough about any of this to do that. Whatcha think?

:heart:

Destee


I agree sister we'll probably end up with several outlines.

It looks like the consensus is African Traditional as the 1st area so let's start there and then pick the next area as we near the completion of the first.

How about we spend the rest of 2006 to explore African texts?

If any other texts need to be added to the Africa area let's go ahead and do it so we can decide what all African texts we plan to cover.

Here is a proposed outline.

09-18 to 10-18....African text #1
10-18 to 11-01....African text #2
11-01 to 12-01....African text #3
12-01 to 12-31....African text #4

Jan-2007...Decide what the consensus next area of study should be and identify the texts.

Of course other texts outside the main 4 can be worked in as needed but if we agree for everyone to read at least those 4 then we are all working with the same information.

Obviously the medu neter is already a hot topic, so maybe vol I. and II are good starting texts for month 1?

Any votes for the other 3 African texts?

ok im confused?

We're starting with the general area of African spirituality since most put that at the top of the list. So now we need to identify a few key texts that all will read over the next few months.

Metu Neter vol I and II seems like good initial text since it has come up in discussion quite a bit recently and its proponents are so vocal.

We just need suggestions on at least 3 other critical African texts.

My choices are:

*Metu Neter (both volumes treated as one book)

*The Pert Em Heru (As my Beloved Sheqhet stated, this is indeed first on my list)

* The Bhagavad Ghita (Since this text is so similar in philosophical nature to the Pert and other African theologies, it should definitely be included.

Brother KEMETKIND:

I noticed that very little of your list consisted of purely African systems, and/or their doctrines and texts.

Being that this effort we are striving to undertake is in the interest of Black enlightenment, I think that our first endeavors should be oriented towards those systems that developed within the Mother continent, such as IFA and YORUBA.

PEACE

My choices are:

*Metu Neter (both volumes treated as one book)

*The Pert Em Heru (As my Beloved Sheqhet stated, this is indeed first on my list)

* The Bhagavad Ghita (Since this text is so similar in philosophical nature to the Pert and other African theologies, it should definitely be included.

Brother KEMETKIND:

I noticed that very little of your list consisted of purely African systems, and/or their doctrines and texts.

Being that this effort we are striving to undertake is in the interest of Black enlightenment, I think that our first endeavors should be oriented towards those systems that developed within the Mother continent, such as IFA and YORUBA.

PEACE

Agreed 100% Brother Samurai.

The initial list was just something to get us started for brainstorming.

All of the numbered texts are freely available on the web.

A good many of them are strictly euro fiction and would have little value for us, but there are a few gems in there.

Metu neter vol I and II are the initial texts, do you have suggested texts for study of IFA and YORUBA?

Here is the updated list again...for spiritual area #1

We've agreed Metu Neter I & II will be the first text.

Pert Em Heru has been suggested as text #2.

We need to decide on #3 and #4, confirm a schedule, and draft a simple ground rules/mission statement.

The instructions of Ptah and 42 precepts of Ma'at are small enough we should be able to cover them while everyone is getting up on Metu Neter.


Africa
Metu Neter Vol I & II
Instructions of Ptah,
The 42 Precepts of Ma'at (also known as the Negative Confessions )
Knowing the Evolutions of Ra.
Pulling No Punches The Religious Factor
Pert Em Heru
The Bhagavad Ghita

(all below are available at http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/index.htm)

1 The Religious System of the Amazulu
2 Specimens of Bushman Folklore
3 South African Folk-Tales
4 Xhosa Folk Tales
5 Myths and Legends of the Bantu
6 Myths of Ífè
7 Notes on the Folklore of the Fjort
8 At the Back of the Black Man's Mind
9 Folk Stories from Southern Nigeria
10 Fetichism in West Africa
11 Hausa Folklore
12 Woman's Mysteries of a Primitive People
13 The Yoruba Speaking Peoples
14 Drums and Shadows
15 Jamaica Anansi Stories
16 The Holy Piby
17 Last of the Voudoos
18 New Orleans Superstitions
19 Voodoo and Obeahs
20 Psychic Phenomena of Jamaica

We're starting with the general area of African spirituality since most put that at the top of the list. So now we need to identify a few key texts that all will read over the next few months.

Metu Neter vol I and II seems like good initial text since it has come up in discussion quite a bit recently and its proponents are so vocal.

We just need suggestions on at least 3 other critical African texts.
Yeh, but I consider the Old Testament to be African Text to.

OK. Fair Enough. The Old testament (version?) is text #3 then.

Maybe we should leave it with these three for starters since no doubt an analysis of these 3 could easily take up the rest of the year.

OK. Fair Enough. The Old testament (version?) is text #3 then.

Maybe we should leave it with these three for starters since no doubt an analysis of these 3 could easily take up the rest of the year.
So are we now ready to reduce it to a specific text, chapter or verse?

So are we now ready to reduce it to a specific text, chapter or verse?

I first put out an outline that had 4 periods where we'd read 4 texts.

Here is an amended one for covering 3 texts:


09-18 to 10-18....Metu Neter Vol I & II
10-18 to 11-18....Pert Em Heru
11-18 to 12-31....Old Testament

Jan-2007...Decide whether to continue with African texts or rotate to another spiritual area.

We should come up with a ground rules/mission statement and decide what all formats for engaging will be. (chat, posts only, etc).

Also, you might want to clarify which version of the old testament we're going to use.

I first put out an outline that had 4 periods where we'd read 4 texts.

Here is an amended one for covering 3 texts:


09-18 to 10-18....Metu Neter Vol I & II
10-18 to 11-18....Pert Em Heru
11-18 to 12-31....Old Testament

Jan-2007...Decide whether to continue with African texts or rotate to another spiritual area.

We should come up with a ground rules/mission statement and decide what all formats for engaging will be. (chat, posts only, etc).

Also, you might want to clarify which version of the old testament we're going to use.
This version of the Old Testament will work:

http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/?action=getVersionInfo&vid=9

Also you are automatically assuming that everyone participating is familiar with your words “Pert Em Heru”, we need to be less technical and let us commoners know that this is the “Egyptian Book of the Dead”. I personally have this book but you might want to find a web sight to it specifically. Also you are assuming that everyone participating has the Metu Neter vol 1 and 2. I personally have these books but I doubt if all desired participants do and I know the text of it cannot be found on the net. I just wouldn’t feel right telling someone they had to buy the book just to participate, would you?

I mean they would be giving money to an organization they no absolutely nothing about.
I think you should poll the participants on this one. Or maybe someone could type the Metu Neter and make it available on the net?

I first put out an outline that had 4 periods where we'd read 4 texts.

Here is an amended one for covering 3 texts:


09-18 to 10-18....Metu Neter Vol I & II
10-18 to 11-18....Pert Em Heru
11-18 to 12-31....Old Testament

Jan-2007...Decide whether to continue with African texts or rotate to another spiritual area.

We should come up with a ground rules/mission statement and decide what all formats for engaging will be. (chat, posts only, etc).

Also, you might want to clarify which version of the old testament we're going to use.


Brother Kemetkind ... check this out ... http://destee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=257 ... i've created an entirely separate forum for this most wonderful effort! It's difficult keeping up with your pace, but i am surely trying!

I was thinking that the "extra days" should go toward the first lesson we cover, as we have already passed 09/18 and haven't even begun to study yet. In addition, it may take a little extra time during the first lesson, because we will actually be laying the framework as we go. I understand that there is no rush though, and we can take as long as a lesson may need.

Another thing ... i've separated Metu Neter Volumes I & II into separate lessons.

Take a peek at this link (http://destee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=257), and let me know if i'm following properly.

:heart:

Destee

Brother Kemetkind ... check this out ... http://destee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=257 ... i've created an entirely separate forum for this most wonderful effort! It's difficult keeping up with your pace, but i am surely trying!

I was thinking that the "extra days" should go toward the first lesson we cover, as we have already passed 09/18 and haven't even begun to study yet. In addition, it may take a little extra time during the first lesson, because we will actually be laying the framework as we go. I understand that there is no rush though, and we can take as long as a lesson may need.

Another thing ... i've separated Metu Neter Volumes I & II into separate lessons.

Take a peek at this link (http://destee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=257), and let me know if i'm following properly.

:heart:

Destee
That's wonderful, sista Destee!

Brother Kemetkind ... check this out ... http://destee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=257 ... i've created an entirely separate forum for this most wonderful effort! It's difficult keeping up with your pace, but i am surely trying!

I was thinking that the "extra days" should go toward the first lesson we cover, as we have already passed 09/18 and haven't even begun to study yet. In addition, it may take a little extra time during the first lesson, because we will actually be laying the framework as we go. I understand that there is no rush though, and we can take as long as a lesson may need.

Another thing ... i've separated Metu Neter Volumes I & II into separate lessons.

Take a peek at this link (http://destee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=257), and let me know if i'm following properly.

:heart:

Destee

TY Destee for the forum!

I need to finish up some other stuff tonight but I will post with a ground rules thread in the morning unless someone else handles it tonight.

In the meantime, thus of us without both versions of Metu Neter need to order...

Thanks again sister!

Fambly,
Here is the full text of the Pert Em Heru (better known as the Book of the Dead) with commentary by its illustrius translator E.A. Wallis Budge. Ra Un Nefer Amen vouched for Budge so the man is cool with me.

Since we have this text readily available right now why don't we move it up to text number one to give those who don't have the Meru Neter a chance to order it from amazon.com?

As side reading I would also suggest Ma'at: The 11 Laws of God. You can find a summary of it as well as the full texts of all the works Sam and I have mentioned here
http://ebonyminds.com/kemetpages/spirituality.htm

Thank You Brother Kemetkind and Sister River !!! :love:

This is so exciting !!!! :jumping: ... i'm gonna learn so much !!! :read:

Okay ... i'm moving this thread to it's new home, the African Traditional Introduction - Ground Rules Forum (http://destee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=266). Notice that each area has one of these forums, and we can use it for general questions / discussion surrounding each area. Currently, all of the other forums in this new forum are locked, as we will all begin studying together, at the same time ... once we start.

I see Sister River has made a new suggestion, which sounds great, so ... until we decide which text we're gonna start with, all of those forums remain closed as well. Once we do decide where we're gonna start, i'll open that forum up, so we can begin adding resources to it.

This is really great Brother Kemetkind !!! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

What is so beautiful, is what you said in the first thread, which i've now made a part of the new forum's description ...

In this forum, we select texts surrounding a particular belief system, and study them for a month (or 3), from our own Black/African perspectives, with the goal of identifying truths or wisdom contained therein.

Seeking truths and wisdoms ... beautiful !! :bowdown: ... that is love ... that is peace! :love:

Okay ... this thread is now moved to it's new forum (http://destee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=266)!

:heart:

Destee

Fambly,
Here is the full text of the Pert Em Heru (better known as the Book of the Dead) with commentary by its illustrius translator E.A. Wallis Budge. Ra Un Nefer Amen vouched for Budge so the man is cool with me.

Since we have this text readily available right now why don't we move it up to text number one to give those who don't have the Meru Neter a chance to order it from amazon.com?

As side reading I would also suggest Ma'at: The 11 Laws of God. You can find a summary of it as well as the full texts of all the works Sam and I have mentioned here
http://ebonyminds.com/kemetpages/spirituality.htm


Good idea sister River. My Metu Neter have not arrived yet ...I checked last night to find additional copies and most places do not have them in stock.

River it may help if a Kemetian expert takes ownership and leads the discussion in this area. Would you or Sam or any of the kemetian proponents do that for us?

Also we need to decide what our format will be.

Random posting is an option.

Roundtable summaries followed by comparative analysis is an option.

A specified weekly chat hour where we discuss as a group is an option.

A facilitator led question/answer format is an option.

Dividing up each text, assigning different chapters/plates to each member in the group, and requesting a brief comment/summary/analysis is an option.

Let's go ahead and post other options and decide which ones make the most sense to start with.

Destee can you move Pert Em Heru up to 1 and change dates around in the sub-forum sections as you suggested earlier (more padding in the initial bloc instead of the december one).

Also let's call this first block "Pert Em Heru and other Kemetian texts", this way the smaller texts like Instructions of ptah, negative confessions, etc. can be organized within the same sub-forum.

This will be outstanding, I can see it already!

Good idea sister River. My Metu Neter have not arrived yet ...I checked last night to find additional copies and most places do not have them in stock.

River it may help if a Kemetian expert takes ownership and leads the discussion in this area. Would you or Sam or any of the kemetian proponents do that for us?

Also we need to decide what our format will be.

Random posting is an option.

Roundtable summaries followed by comparative analysis is an option.

A specified weekly chat hour where we discuss as a group is an option.

A facilitator led question/answer format is an option.

Dividing up each text, assigning different chapters/plates to each member in the group, and requesting a brief comment/summary/analysis is an option.

Let's go ahead and post other options and decide which ones make the most sense to start with.

Destee can you move Pert Em Heru up to 1 and change dates around in the sub-forum sections as you suggested earlier (more padding in the initial bloc instead of the december one).

Also let's call this first block "Pert Em Heru and other Kemetian texts", this way the smaller texts like Instructions of ptah, negative confessions, etc. can be organized within the same sub-forum.

Brother Kemetkind ... okay, i'll make those changes ... but i have a question also ... would Mr. Neely Fuller's ... The United Independent Compensatory Code/System/Concept - A Textbook/Workbook for Thought, Speech And/or Action for Victims of Racism (White Supremacy) ... be considered appropriate for this forum? It seems that most agree that white supremacy is a religion ... (which are Mr. Neely Fuller's words) ... then perhaps the counter to that, might also be a religion? I'd love for his work to be on the schedule some kinda way, if it fits.

:heart:

Destee

Brother Kemetkind ... okay, i'll make those changes ... but i have a question also ... would Mr. Neely Fuller's ... The United Independent Compensatory Code/System/Concept - A Textbook/Workbook for Thought, Speech And/or Action for Victims of Racism (White Supremacy) ... be considered appropriate for this forum? It seems that most agree that white supremacy is a religion ... (which are Mr. Neely Fuller's words) ... then perhaps the counter to that, might also be a religion? I'd love for his work to be on the schedule some kinda way, if it fits.

:heart:

Destee
it fits for me. go for it, if any object then you can see what that objection might be.

Brother Kemetkind ... okay, i'll make those changes ... but i have a question also ... would Mr. Neely Fuller's ... The United Independent Compensatory Code/System/Concept - A Textbook/Workbook for Thought, Speech And/or Action for Victims of Racism (White Supremacy) ... be considered appropriate for this forum? It seems that most agree that white supremacy is a religion ... (which are Mr. Neely Fuller's words) ... then perhaps the counter to that, might also be a religion? I'd love for his work to be on the schedule some kinda way, if it fits.

:heart:

Destee

OK Sounds Good. We have the actual spiritual texts to cover, and there will undoubtedly be misc. supporting / refuting books that may or may not be religous or spiritual in nature.

Maybe you could create a "Ancillary Texts" or "Supporting Texts" sub-forum and we could put fuller's work there and add it to the schedule?

Works in the Ancillary texts forum could be scheduled at anytime since they may be introduced while we are covering any of the spiritual systems.

What ya think?

Hey Kem,
Those are good options. Another might be that each person who feels like he/she is knowledgeable about a text or system can choose some aspect of that text and start a thread that explores that aspect. In this way the threads can stay focused because they start with a focus. Then as ideas develop anyone can start a thread on an aspect of the text that interests them. which would be a kind of organized roundtable.

Hey Kem,
Those are good options. Another might be that each person who feels like he/she is knowledgeable about a text or system can choose some aspect of that text and start a thread that explores that aspect. In this way the threads can stay focused because they start with a focus. Then as ideas develop anyone can start a thread on an aspect of the text that interests them. which would be a kind of organized roundtable.

I like your approach. It allows one to engage when/where they would like, without any commitment.

Do you think we should do a combination approach with this and also parcel out key topics/chapters to whomever will be the backbone of this effort....just to ensure we thoroughly cover the text...or do you think it may feel too much like homework and scare folks off?

Also, can we agree on a Chat time? I propose every other Tuesday night, alternating so as to not conflict with Baruti...or Sunday mid-afternoon between oldsoul's classes.

I like your approach. It allows one to engage when/where they would like, without any commitment.

Do you think we should do a combination approach with this and also parcel out key topics/chapters to whomever will be the backbone of this effort....just to ensure we thoroughly cover the text...or do you think it may feel too much like homework and scare folks off?

Also, can we agree on a Chat time? I propose every other Tuesday night, alternating so as to not conflict with Baruti...or Sunday mid-afternoon between oldsoul's classes.
Well I tried a chapter by chapter discussion of the Meru Neter a while back and it didn't fly.

There are already a number of folks who stay in the lounge between oldsoul's Sunday classes so it wouldn't hurt to give them something to do

OK Sounds Good. We have the actual spiritual texts to cover, and there will undoubtedly be misc. supporting / refuting books that may or may not be religous or spiritual in nature.

Maybe you could create a "Ancillary Texts" or "Supporting Texts" sub-forum and we could put fuller's work there and add it to the schedule?

Works in the Ancillary texts forum could be scheduled at anytime since they may be introduced while we are covering any of the spiritual systems.

What ya think?

Brother Kemetkind ... it seems you don't consider it an "actual spiritual text" based on your comment above ... and i don't want to muddy things up in this new forum, as it is going to be challenging enough just to stay focused on the vision you already have ... so i will respectfully withdraw my request. We have not been doing any reading in our "Book Club (http://destee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=137)" lately, and that will be a great place for us to be able to cover Mr. Neely Fuller's work, without opening the door to this forum to all kinds of "ancillary / supporting texts" which surely exist.

Thank you for being willing to accomodate my request ... :love:

:heart:

Destee

Well I tried a chapter by chapter discussion of the Meru Neter a while back and it didn't fly.

Sister River ... i didn't follow that discussion because it had gotten so far ahead of me, by the time i realized it was going on.

I'm a pretty logical kinda thinker, and it seems oh so very logical to me, to start at the beginning and go to the end (chapter by chapter). If this proves itself confusing and chaotic, how much more so will another method?

Please share with us Sister, why didn't the previous attempt work, and is there something we can do better ... using what was learned during that time ... to perhaps make it easier to do it in a logical order?

I've yet to read the Metu Neter, and like some say about the Bible, it may not be meant to be read and understood chapter by chapter ... if this is the case ... just let me know that. I'm open to any and every thing ... whatever works best for the majority of us.

Love You!

:heart:

Destee

Brother Kemetkind ... it seems you don't consider it an "actual spiritual text" based on your comment above ... and i don't want to muddy things up in this new forum, as it is going to be challenging enough just to stay focused on the vision you already have ... so i will respectfully withdraw my request. We have not been doing any reading in our "Book Club (http://destee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=137)" lately, and that will be a great place for us to be able to cover Mr. Neely Fuller's work, without opening the door to this forum to all kinds of "ancillary / supporting texts" which surely exist.

Thank you for being willing to accomodate my request ... :love:

:heart:

Destee

Sister Destee how can you withdraw your request when this is YOUR house up in here? :blowkiss:

Seriously though I thought it was a good idea.

I haven't read fuller's book so I really have no idea if it is a spiritual text or not....I had thought it was about recognizing white supremacy and steps we should take to counter it.

Any belief system addressing the modern issues facing us today has to deal with white supremacy, so let's do this book!

The question is when to do it and how to categorize it.

I just put up the idea of an ancillary forum as a means to categorize all those books/workbooks that aren't generally recognized as "sacred texts", but have obvious value for us during our journey (Brother Keita's book is another that comes to mind).

Sister Destee how can you withdraw your request when this is YOUR house up in here? :blowkiss:

Seriously though I thought it was a good idea.

I haven't read fuller's book so I really have no idea if it is a spiritual text or not....I had thought it was about recognizing white supremacy and steps we should take to counter it.

Any belief system addressing the modern issues facing us today has to deal with white supremacy, so let's do this book!

The question is when to do it and how to categorize it.

I just put up the idea of an ancillary forum as a means to categorize all those books/workbooks that aren't generally recognized as "sacred texts", but have obvious value for us during our journey (Brother Keita's book is another that comes to mind).

Brother Kemetkind ... it's real easy for me to withdraw my request, as i want to always set an example for us. I'd really just be getting in the way of the vision, and it's important for all of us to consider it, and try to work within it ... when making requests.

Besides, it's OUR house ... what's best for all of us, not what is best for me or one of us ... :blowkiss:

Like i said above, you're wonderfully accomodating, but i recognize how easy it will be for others to want their "favorite author" to be included ... when in reality ... many may not consider their work "Spiritual or Sacred Texts."

In addition, it can be done in the Book Club Forum. Nothing will be lost doing it that way.

You're the best! :love:

:heart:

Destee

ps ... it troubles me some, the things we label as "sacred and spiritual" when none of us were present during the writings, and we're (for the most part) going on heresay. I'm a bit jaded, as the more i learn, the less i believe ... (hmmmm, this might be what troubled me that day in chat, remember?) ... but anyway, i'm open, ready, and optimistic! :)

Per Brother Kemetkind's request ... The Pert Em Heru / Kemetian Texts Class / Forum (http://destee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=264) ... is now open! :jumping:

We can start the process of learning together in the best of manners! ... :teach: ... :read: ... :book:

Please everyone, feel free to add resources, knowledge, and wisdom! ... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

:heart:

Destee

Sister River ... i didn't follow that discussion because it had gotten so far ahead of me, by the time i realized it was going on.

I'm a pretty logical kinda thinker, and it seems oh so very logical to me, to start at the beginning and go to the end (chapter by chapter). If this proves itself confusing and chaotic, how much more so will another method?

Please share with us Sister, why didn't the previous attempt work, and is there something we can do better ... using what was learned during that time ... to perhaps make it easier to do it in a logical order?

I've yet to read the Metu Neter, and like some say about the Bible, it may not be meant to be read and understood chapter by chapter ... if this is the case ... just let me know that. I'm open to any and every thing ... whatever works best for the majority of us.

Love You!

:heart:

Destee
Sista Destee,

I think the main reason the discussion fizzled was because people were having a hard time grasping the concepts presented in the book. The book is extremely esoteric and presents a concept of God that is totally different from what we have learned in the west. Then sista Fine52 introduced us to the teachings of Ray Hagins which were a bit more home grown though still Afrocentric but much easier to get into.

Then it just kinda slipped down the page as a zillion other threads were started.

This is why I was thinking Sam and others could just pick an aspect of the book and expund on it in a way that ties into what we know and experience.

Love ya back

Sista Destee,

I think the main reason the discussion fizzled was because people were having a hard time grasping the concepts presented in the book. The book is extremely esoteric and presents a concept of God that is totally different from what we have learned in the west. Then sista Fine52 introduced us to the teachings of Ray Hagins which were a bit more home grown though still Afrocentric but much easier to get into.

Then it just kinda slipped down the page as a zillion other threads were started.

This is why I was thinking Sam and others could just pick an aspect of the book and expund on it in a way that ties into what we know and experience.

Love ya back

Sister River ... i can imagine that it would be difficult to grasp, especially if it turns everything we thought we knew about God, upside down! :eeek:

As i said, i never took part in the previous discussion, but i have a feeling that when we do it this time, it will be different. Now that we have a special place, meant to help us understand these texts, taking as much time as we need for those who know nothing of them (like me), should produce a more positive result. At least, that's my hope.

If it's already going to turn all i think, upside down, it's going to be important for my mind, that we go in some kind of order (preferably page by page). Surely the author intended for us to go page by page?

We have quite a few Members that seem to be familiar with Metu Neter, and if we can get them all to share with us, it might not be as bad as it was last time.

Just my thoughts Sister ... since i know nothing of it ... i'm open to whatever is best.

:heart:

Destee

after the wisdom is exposed/revealed than I suggest we take certain elements and use those to organize/teach our people in this world today so that the darkness many are in (self imposed or otherwise) begins to lighten up.

after the wisdom is exposed/revealed than I suggest we take certain elements and use those to organize/teach our people in this world today so that the darkness many are in (self imposed or otherwise) begins to lighten up.
Yes brotha, a practical application of our new knowledge is part of the goal.

Sister River ... i can imagine that it would be difficult to grasp, especially if it turns everything we thought we knew about God, upside down! :eeek:

As i said, i never took part in the previous discussion, but i have a feeling that when we do it this time, it will be different. Now that we have a special place, meant to help us understand these texts, taking as much time as we need for those who know nothing of them (like me), should produce a more positive result. At least, that's my hope.

If it's already going to turn all i think, upside down, it's going to be important for my mind, that we go in some kind of order (preferably page by page). Surely the author intended for us to go page by page?

We have quite a few Members that seem to be familiar with Metu Neter, and if we can get them all to share with us, it might not be as bad as it was last time.

Just my thoughts Sister ... since i know nothing of it ... i'm open to whatever is best.

:heart:

Destee
Is there any reason why we can't have both a chapter by chapter study and a topical study just like over in the Pert Em Heru forum we have several threads going?

Is there any reason why we can't have both a chapter by chapter study and a topical study just like over in the Pert Em Heru forum we have several threads going?

No reason at all Sister ... i just didn't wanna miss out on the chapter by chapter.

:heart:

Destee

No reason at all Sister ... i just didn't wanna miss out on the chapter by chapter.

:heart:

Destee
Then we won't miss out on it, my darling sista

Hotep

Some of us still don't get it..."Words make People"..."We" must at all times be careful of the words we choose to use. The word in question here...that is also most mis-leading (Corrupting) to the "Mind"...is...Belief!
We have chosen this word only because we are compairing what we think we know through the meny so-called Belief-Systems tought to us through the System of White Superimacy. When a child is born...it only must know Self and know that later it can walk, talk, speak etc.... Spirituality is not a Belief system...that is to say if one don't belive...it don't exist?! When it can not...not exist if all of us choose to dis-belive...because that is exactly what is happening...we don't know...we are trying to Learn but it (Spirituality) was here all the time...when we forgot and did not know and are now Sleep Walking...Believing in the False Docterins of Fabricated White Superimacy that covers every Religion known...you must have "Faith" in them and you have to "Believe" in them because thay catagoricly are not "Real". No one has to Belief in Spirituality it already exist!! But any Religion only exist in the "Minds of Men"...hence they are only illusions that don't exist and are not real. To say one must believe in Spirituality is like saying the Sun is the same as a Snow-ball made with your hands. Understand once and for all...Spirituality has all ways been even while we are Spiritualy Dead and Full of Religion and Holy Ghost and Spooks.

The Idea of the "Trinity" stolen from (your ancestors) the original sacrit writings found only in Kemet and among the Spiritual (Prist) Masters of (Merita) so-called Africa is...Osiris the europians took for the "Father"...Horus (Sun) who the europian took for the SON and the Mother "Isis" the crazy patriarchal male dominated white superimist europians "Took (Woman) out all togeather" and call this divine office "Holy Ghost"! So now for the first time in your life this should make sence to you ware the other foolishnes could never...because it don't make sence and is contrary to "Nature" because you can not divide 3 into 1 and get any thing Sane or Natural but only Concocted. There is no such thing as a Holy Ghost!! There is Man + Woman = Child!! or "Trinity" Now...will you still choose to stay sleep on this one ...because if you can't get past the "Lie" you are "Stuck" until you do. http://www.theearthcenter.com/

Ase`

Note: The Indigenis Original so-called Black African Knows Self...there is no need for such a thing as Belief that has been hammered into our collective heads by the System of White Superimacy...of it they say we must Believe and have Faith...but not know. Spirituality is something that "We" have not even begin to understand or even come close yet. And when you do at first you are in for a wonderful, great, power, overwhelming, shock, surprise of your short life...we have no idea yet...let go of the Slave Chains that hold our "Minds" called Religions...this is the only thing stopping your Groth twards Freedom and Liberation of your Mind to except your birth right...Spirituality.

Hey brotha Moorf,

You know you've got your own personal creative way of spelling things but I really dig what you're saying. Keep doing whatcha doing, daddy.

Hotep

We should strive to be as correct and accurate as posible when approching the "Ancestors". African Proverb: "When we take one step twards the ancestors...they run twords Us". This is to say that when we seek to learn all there is to know...we should "open" our minds and hearts...and be ready to receive what we are asking. Before the devine work that some of us thing we are at a level of critiq...when before we absolutely knew nothing what ever...Ra Un Nefer Amen was and still is one of the most sincere attemps to bring us (Medu Neteru) what we are absolutely with-out. What did we have before? Nothing except ignorance! Today there are meny who through the divine efforts of the ancestors to show us what it means to be a real Hue-Man ( that we are born to be) on this earth in this Universe... and to bring us back to our "Right-Minds" through "Right Knowledge" in Spirituality.
How can we now think we know something enough to argue back and forth about something that is new to us...when we were just yesterday and "Still" a bunch of Negros "Lost" in euro "Biblical-Myths"? Today... it is our personal duty to wake up before it is too late for some of us. The "Times" are very, very, very serious and is running out for those who think they have something better. Those are the ones who will find out soon enough when it is too late to save them self. No one is "Saved" or other wise there would be no need for "Liberation" from the system of White Superimacy. The only thing that can save a person or persons is..."To Know Your Self ". We must "Know"! Not just believe and have faith! Belief and Faith are only what we were tought to have in place of "Knowing" who we are. When you "Know"...nothing can stop you from knowing and Doing!! But when you only have Faith and Belief...your faith can be shaken or deminished and your belief can be "Changed". Belief and Faith are not enough at all...when we are instructed by the "Creator" to "Know Thy Self". Who are "We" to think we know better than this?? The answer is...we are only "Fools" to think we know better than G-d who created us from "Nothing" and now we think we are something because we choose to compare what the Enemy has tought us to what we are Created in...and that is "Spirituality" and nothing else!
When we call on the ancestors...they don't come for "Foolishness"!! It would be better that we not call on them...if this Faith and Belief is going to be our thinking and remain the Slaves that we are...in Faith and Belief in the System of White Superimacy.
There is nothing what so ever...repeat...there is "Nothing" what so ever in the system of White Superimacy and "All" it's Religions that can prepare "Us" for Spirituality. We must stop thinking we know any thing because we know "Nothing" yet!! Until we know our Self.
People Know Thy Self

Ase`

Note: It is strongly suggested that we seek the "Understanding of our own Spirituality" and not think we are seeking to just "Believe and have Faith in something...Belief adn Faith...is nothing when we "Are instructed" to Know today or stay ware we are...and ware is that?? Spirituality is who you Are!

Hotep

We should strive to be as correct and accurate as posible when approching the "Ancestors". African Proverb: "When we take one step twards the ancestors...they run twords Us". This is to say that when we seek to learn all there is to know...we should "open" our minds and hearts...and be ready to receive what we are asking. Before the devine work that some of us thing we are at a level of critiq...when before we absolutely knew nothing what ever...Ra Un Nefer Amen was and still is one of the most sincere attemps to bring us (Medu Neteru) what we are absolutely with-out. What did we have before? Nothing except ignorance! Today there are meny who through the divine efforts of the ancestors to show us what it means to be a real Hue-Man ( that we are born to be) on this earth in this Universe... and to bring us back to our "Right-Minds" through "Right Knowledge" in Spirituality.
How can we now think we know something enough to argue back and forth about something that is new to us...when we were just yesterday and "Still" a bunch of Negros "Lost" in euro "Biblical-Myths"? Today... it is our personal duty to wake up before it is too late for some of us. The "Times" are very, very, very serious and is running out for those who think they have something better. Those are the ones who will find out soon enough when it is too late to save them self. No one is "Saved" or other wise there would be no need for "Liberation" from the system of White Superimacy. The only thing that can save a person or persons is..."To Know Your Self ". We must "Know"! Not just believe and have faith! Belief and Faith are only what we were tought to have in place of "Knowing" who we are. When you "Know"...nothing can stop you from knowing and Doing!! But when you only have Faith and Belief...your faith can be shaken or deminished and your belief can be "Changed". Belief and Faith are not enough at all...when we are instructed by the "Creator" to "Know Thy Self". Who are "We" to think we know better than this?? The answer is...we are only "Fools" to think we know better than G-d who created us from "Nothing" and now we think we are something because we choose to compare what the Enemy has tought us to what we are Created in...and that is "Spirituality" and nothing else!
When we call on the ancestors...they don't come for "Foolishness"!! It would be better that we not call on them...if this Faith and Belief is going to be our thinking and remain the Slaves that we are...in Faith and Belief in the System of White Superimacy.
There is nothing what so ever...repeat...there is "Nothing" what so ever in the system of White Superimacy and "All" it's Religions that can prepare "Us" for Spirituality. We must stop thinking we know any thing because we know "Nothing" yet!! Until we know our Self.
People Know Thy Self

Ase`

Note: It is strongly suggested that we seek the "Understanding of our own Spirituality" and not think we are seeking to just "Believe and have Faith in something...Belief adn Faith...is nothing when we "Are instructed" to Know today or stay ware we are...and ware is that?? Spirituality is who you Are!



BRAVO!
BRAVO!

:time: Wondering how this forum lost its steam. Seems like sumthin was about to take off. :lift:

Hotep

The day that our Ancestors "Prayed" for and to witness...has come. We are now living in the time that the so-called Black African and Black African in Amerikkka as well as those scattered thourgh out the "Earth"...will "Rise"! And take their rightful place as the true..."Care-Takers" of the Earth. For too long...we have been allowing a imposture, immitater and Fake who has fabricated and re-wrote our "Real" history and exchanged places with "us" and put them self in our "Rightful-Place". They have turn the world up side down and have brought they have come in contact with to "Ruine"...in the short time that they have been "Pretending" to be (something they could never be) God. We are like the security guard who has fallen asleep and wakes up to find that the house has been robbed. Once the chick has left the Egg of Ignorance there is no going back. The main thing along with out knowing who we are is "Fear"...fear of the "UN-Known" that is "Self"!
Once a man, woman or child..."Knows"...the "Fear of the un-known is replaced with the "Fear-lesness" that causes one to do with out fear what has to be done. Spirituality is who (We) you Are. None of the Original Black People on the Planet are Muslim (Arabs), Christian (European), Jews (Caucasion) or Hindew (Aryan) until they are "Tricked" after being put to sleep by one of these above...into thinking they (Blacks) are something that they are not or ever will be. All of the indo-european "Religions" are made by them and given to (you) only after you were made ignorant...none of our "Original-Black-Ancestors" could be made to except the concoctions of these "Invaders" under any circumstances...because they knew that "Death" is better than "oppression". Why is it that we can still see even unto this very day...that the indiginis Blacks...meaning the ones who are so-called "Traditional" (MAAT)...Don't want any thing to do with the Crazy Ideas of (the white man) Western-Thinking?? These are the ones who have always been fought againts by the
"Foolish-Black-Supporters-of-European-Colonialism" or the System of White Superimacy who tries to bring their Concocted (missionaries, political systems etc) Religions to Force down the throut of a Ancient Black People Who Know Better because "they know who they are"! The western so-called News Media will not tell us this because they are part of the smae efforts of "War" againts the Original Black People that they have been trying to "Wipe-Out" for the past 2,000+ years and now have run out of "Time". The kid-naped victems who have been scattered to the Amerikkkas were converted or the better word..."Per-Verted" into the System of White Superimacies...Religious Mind Controling Fabrications of white images of devine...are now...today emerging out of the Deep, Hypnotic Foolishness that we have been under for much too long...as we now begain to reach out through "Time"...to the Ancestors and our Lost "Spirituality" that is the "Self"..."The Natural Order of Things"...Our Collective "Destiny".

Ase`

Hotep

The day that our Ancestors "Prayed" for and to witness...has come. We are now living in the time that the so-called Black African and Black African in Amerikkka as well as those scattered thourgh out the "Earth"...will "Rise"! And take their rightful place as the true..."Care-Takers" of the Earth. For too long...we have been allowing a imposture, immitater and Fake who has fabricated and re-wrote our "Real" history and exchanged places with "us" and put them self in our "Rightful-Place". They have turn the world up side down and have brought they have come in contact with to "Ruine"...in the short time that they have been "Pretending" to be (something they could never be) God. We are like the security guard who has fallen asleep and wakes up to find that the house has been robbed. Once the chick has left the Egg of Ignorance there is no going back. The main thing along with out knowing who we are is "Fear"...fear of the "UN-Known" that is "Self"!
Once a man, woman or child..."Knows"...the "Fear of the un-known is replaced with the "Fear-lesness" that causes one to do with out fear what has to be done. Spirituality is who (We) you Are. None of the Original Black People on the Planet are Muslim (Arabs), Christian (European), Jews (Caucasion) or Hindew (Aryan) until they are "Tricked" after being put to sleep by one of these above...into thinking they (Blacks) are something that they are not or ever will be. All of the indo-european "Religions" are made by them and given to (you) only after you were made ignorant...none of our "Original-Black-Ancestors" could be made to except the concoctions of these "Invaders" under any circumstances...because they knew that "Death" is better than "oppression". Why is it that we can still see even unto this very day...that the indiginis Blacks...meaning the ones who are so-called "Traditional" (MAAT)...Don't want any thing to do with the Crazy Ideas of (the white man) Western-Thinking?? These are the ones who have always been fought againts by the
"Foolish-Black-Supporters-of-European-Colonialism" or the System of White Superimacy who tries to bring their Concocted (missionaries, political systems etc) Religions to Force down the throut of a Ancient Black People Who Know Better because "they know who they are"! The western so-called News Media will not tell us this because they are part of the smae efforts of "War" againts the Original Black People that they have been trying to "Wipe-Out" for the past 2,000+ years and now have run out of "Time". The kid-naped victems who have been scattered to the Amerikkkas were converted or the better word..."Per-Verted" into the System of White Superimacies...Religious Mind Controling Fabrications of white images of devine...are now...today emerging out of the Deep, Hypnotic Foolishness that we have been under for much too long...as we now begain to reach out through "Time"...to the Ancestors and our Lost "Spirituality" that is the "Self"..."The Natural Order of Things"...Our Collective "Destiny".

Ase`



It is going to have to happen one soul at a time dear brother. and unfortuately some will not be able to break the spell of apep and must continue to follow thier course of life action and utlimately believing. Hell most of them are killing themselves to assimulate . However i am definitely on board brother. HMMMMMMMM in the mean time:thinking: we need to gather those in the know and start building past our internet site. let's not get divided by what teacher or messenger or cultural system we are under. We are derive from the essence of it all and it is time to do the work. We must give our people the choice of the green or red pill. Reality or fantasy? Often times the fantasy(mind state) will not allow them to be come conscious! And thus they spend thier glorious gift(life) asleep. Hotep wadu

:time: Wondering how this forum lost its steam. Seems like sumthin was about to take off. :lift:

Brother MenNefer ... i'm believing that's why the Creator sent you us ... so we could get our steam back! :wink:

:heart:

Destee

Brother MenNefer ... i'm believing that's why the Creator sent you us ... so we could get our steam back! :wink:

:heart:

Destee

Agreed. We need some of the knowledgeable brothers posting here to pick this back up and carry it forward.

I've stepped away from serious study of African Spirituality for a while, but I've slowly been coming back around to it.

In this area I am a seeker, not a teacher, but its obvious there are many here who are ready and worthy of leading.

Lately, I have been more drawn to discover the origin of my people. As a starting point, I completed an Ethics course that really exposed to me the world and society’s influence on thought and perception. In our world, we teach a Psuedo-scholarship. A form of scholarship that does not follow the basic rules of scholarship. For example, we do not learn for understanding so that we can make changes; we learn for knowledge so that we can duplicate. Nevertheless, I was also looking for some direction, and at the end of the semester I purchased a Bible. I read the first six books, but put it to the side as my next semester started. I wanted to be really focused in school. I enrolled in an African American history course. The first two chapters of my text book discussed the two kingdoms of Africa and the Atlantic Slave Trade. Surprisingly, my reading of the Bible and the situations and circumstances of the Africans seemed to have a reflection of each other. Finally, I gave in and started to read my Bible again from the beginning. I now had increased knowledge of world.
Wholeheartedly, I knew after reading the first five books of Moses the second time; that it was possible that Africans are Israelites. In my heart, there were no questions. I continued to read the Bible and noticed “King” David fled Israel when King Saul wanted his life. Also, the kingdom of Judah was born and Jerusalem established in the land where “King David” fled. This is where King David built the “City of David”. King David and his son King Solomon never lived among the Israelite nation as rulers. Although, some Israelites followed and dwelt among them. After King Solomon’s death the new kingdom Judah and the Israelite nation parted ways, because of the slavery under the thrown. This is when Babylon comes in and conquers the kingdom of Judah. The Israelites that rebelled against King David’s thrown are known throughout the world as “The Worst Of The Unbelievers” especially in the Middle East and Holy Lands. These Israelites have supposedly been punished and extinguished.
I continued to read and r