Those who are knowledgeable about Islam please explain, what is the woman's place in the world of Islam? Now I know propaganda when I see it but from my personal experience I have seen things that I just baffle me. Now I will not list them just yet because I do not want to sway the responses but I really want to hear whats good from those who are more knowledgeable about the religion than I.

Those who are knowledgeable about Islam please explain, what is the woman's place in the world of Islam? Now I know propaganda when I see it but from my personal experience I have seen things that I just baffle me. Now I will not list them just yet because I do not want to sway the responses but I really want to hear whats good from those who are more knowledgeable about the religion than I.


As-salaam-u-a-laikum


your ? really depends on what "sect" of Islaam you are referring too ...........

From what I've seen and experienced it's behind her man/husband.

Those who are knowledgeable about Islam please explain, what is the woman's place in the world of Islam? Now I know propaganda when I see it but from my personal experience I have seen things that I just baffle me. Now I will not list them just yet because I do not want to sway the responses but I really want to hear whats good from those who are more knowledgeable about the religion than I.


The woman's place in Islam is unAfrican to say the least. Classical African spirituality places the physical realization of God as a woman, and places divine importance on the woman. Islam is almost entirely the complete opposite. This is why it behooves me when African-Americans (or Africans in general) convert from Christianity to Islam, when in actuality they are simply running from one slave master to another. In both religions, our women are out of place for African culture. Surah 4 on women of the Qur'an gives good indication...

[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Therefore, Islam calls to beat women that you financially support until they obey you.

The woman's place in Islam is unAfrican to say the least. Classical African spirituality places the physical realization of God as a woman, and places divine importance on the woman. Islam is almost entirely the complete opposite. This is why it behooves me when African-Americans (or Africans in general) convert from Christianity to Islam, when in actuality they are simply running from one slave master to another. In both religions, our women are out of place for African culture. Surah 4 on women of the Qur'an gives good indication...

[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Therefore, Islam calls to beat women that you financially support until they obey you.

That last part is awful!
I know I could never be the wife of one.

The woman's place in Islam is unAfrican to say the least. Classical African spirituality places the physical realization of God as a woman, and places divine importance on the woman. Islam is almost entirely the complete opposite. This is why it behooves me when African-Americans (or Africans in general) convert from Christianity to Islam, when in actuality they are simply running from one slave master to another. In both religions, our women are out of place for African culture. Surah 4 on women of the Qur'an gives good indication...

[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Therefore, Islam calls to beat women that you financially support until they obey you.


This is why I believe that Islam is a flawed religion. The same oppression is present in Christianity but it takes on a different appearence.

I believe that "extreme" Islam is breeding mindless people; moreso than most other religions.

The woman's place in Islam is unAfrican to say the least. Classical African spirituality places the physical realization of God as a woman, and places divine importance on the woman. Islam is almost entirely the complete opposite. This is why it behooves me when African-Americans (or Africans in general) convert from Christianity to Islam, when in actuality they are simply running from one slave master to another. In both religions, our women are out of place for African culture. Surah 4 on women of the Qur'an gives good indication...

[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Therefore, Islam calls to beat women that you financially support until they obey you.

An interesting and off base conclusion, but this section is on disagreement between husband and wife. That was one English translation, but here is another that mentions nothing about beating.

34 Men are the maintainers o f women, with what Allah has made some of them to excel others and with what they spend out of their wealth. So the good women are obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded. And (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the beds and chastise them. So if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely Allah is ever Exalted, Great.Maulana Muhammad Ali Translation

In any case, it does also depend on which expression of Islam you are discussing. Men's perversions of religious doctrine is nothing new.


A practical motherhood, a protection of womanhood and a respect for the role of the female

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_2002.shtml

FC: Many misplace their criticism of Arab culture onto Islam, pointing to women now being allowed to vote in Afghanistan and Iraq as leading Muslim society in the right direction toward democracy and away from Islamic culture. What is the proper role of the woman in Islam, and, for that matter, in all religious cultures who use rituals and scripture to cover their sexism in keeping women second-class citizens?

AM: Sexism is more pervasive in the practice of religion than in any other institution. Islam, Christianity, Judaism and most religions are male-dominated and oppressive in practice, though nothing in the Bible or Holy Qur’an justifies or even rationalizes the way women are held back from expressing their skills, talents and intelligence. I believe this can be corrected only when women decide to submit to Allah (God) and take no other gods besides Him.

FC: You were the first woman to be appointed over a mosque in the Nation of Islam, and really the Islamic world, while in some countries, women cannot even enter the mosques. Recently, a Muslim woman created an “uproar” by giving the khutbah during ju’umah prayer. Why is there such a seemingly wide gap in what women feel they can do in Islam, and actually do, and how can we close that gap as women in the Nation of Islam, in our lives in particular? What, if any, is our duty and responsibility to the women worldwide in Islam, and the potential of our leadership by example and by direct action? What is our duty and responsibility to women in general worldwide?

AM: The Honorable Elijah Muhammad said, “Before there was Sun, there was a woman.” This describes someone with serious power. There actually is no gap between what we feel we can do and what we actually do. The problem is that many women honestly feel inferior to men just as many Black people still believe they are inferior to Whites. It is the product of generations of oppression.

However, when knowledge comes, we must have the courage to act on what we know is right. Muslim women must be much more supportive of one another and become advocates of the right and duty of the woman to teach Islam. Sometimes members of oppressed groups become their own enemy by spreading the perception of the oppressor. I have found resistance to the idea of a female minister to be as strong among females as it is among males. This is why you don’t see many women in the ministry. And until the woman’s perception of Allah (God) is expressed, all of humanity will continue to suffer.

(uplift19) - That was one English translation, but here is another that mentions nothing about beating.

the noi uses the most favorable translation for women, they do a good job in cleaning up orthodox islam.
farakkhan had an explanation for the hadith about 72 virgins that also was very favorable.

the bottom line is 4 out of 5 translations say it's ok to beat the women. khalifah, pickthall, yusef ali and shakir all say beat. pickthall actually says "scourge" which can range from beat to horse whip.
the noi relies on the translation identified as "sher ali" at the submission site; and is a little more reasonable.
god bless the noi and the honorable elijah muhammad. outside of the noi (and the mst) you have to question what people are passing off as islam.

Hotep

Although there was some scattered incidince of progress for Africans under Islam in the United States...the truth is what it is. Our unique brand of "Nationalized" ideas were not excepted by so-called "Real-Muslims" or "Main-Stream-Islam" or in other words any (Arab) Indo-Europian Group of so-called Muslims who are not so-called "African". Over all...when we (Africans in Amerikkka) came in contact with the indo-europian or Arab so-called Muslims...they would be in our Communities taking the place of the other europians who just moved out a decade ago...who sold Blacks...second hand every thing from spoild meats, dried up ham hoks, Liqure, wine, beer, drug supplies and at the same time would have a passage from the Qur`an behind the counter. Concidering the very small exceptions..."WE" (Africans) were never compleatly welcome or invited to their so-called Islamic Centers and Mosques...and when we (African in Amerikkka Muslims) were all ways made to think that what we had learned from Africans like "Noble Drew Ali, The Honorable Elijah Muhammad and Minister Farakhan...is "Not" real "Al-Islam"?!! Why?? Why is every thing we learned as Black Africans in Amerikkka not excepted by the so-called "Arabs" who are really Indo-Europian? Of course...we will rasionalize that W.F. Muhammad is the reason...but if it had not been for this structure of events...ware would the African in Amerikkka be who are calling them self "Muslims"?? Every African should read Professor "Walter Williams" books..."The Historical Origins of Christianity and The Historical Origins of Islam" What is real is what is real...what is true is what is true...and a Lie is a lie is a "Lie". We must know the truth today because this is the only thing that will Absolutely Liberate so-called Africans from the "Racist Indo-Europians" who never had your African best interest in their Rasict Evil harts and mind. How was so-called Islam brought to the African? With the "Sward"!!...Millions were "Killed" by direct and in-direct influince of the "Arbs" who all so played a big part in the "Slave-Trade" and who Own-Slaves of Traditional African Men, Women and Children. Nothing good came from the Arab Invasion of Africa. And as all ways...the Indo-Europian so-called Arab Muslims are in so-called Egypt distroying every trace of the Original African existance and replacing it with their Arab "Fabrications" to make the world think that the Islamic "Arab" Muslims did all of this that one can see in Egypt. There is no different in treatment of the Arab indo-europins and the other indo-europians what holds the African in Captivity to day in Amerikkka. There is not enough space here to go into all of the proof, facts on the truth about what is really going on right under our noses. Ware is the middle North, middle South, middle West to go along with the so-called "Middle East" that is really north Africa!!?? There is no such thing as middle east.
Remember: Any Religion is man made...any religion that realagates the woman to a inferior position...is Absolutely False. Any Religion that does not bann, condones, makes provisions for Slavery...is False and there is no redeeming value in it what ever. Remember: You can not make a sows ear into a gold plate. Why is "All" of the most "Holy" Riligious sights all in Europe and the so-called Middle East...only controled by "Whte", indo-europians and none are in Africa control by Africans? Why do the African be at the back door of the europian and indo-europians for their Spiritual development?? You say we are not?...Then why it the "KA-BA" only under the watchful eye of Arabs? Why is the Dome of the Rock or any other so-called Holy places only under the watchful eye of somebody "White"??? What is the "Woman's place in Islam"?? Just to have a reason to ask this question lets us all know what that place is. According to the Book...it is debatable and all ways up for review and question to say the least...but the "Fact" that it (Qur`an) is almost totaly in line with the Bible lets us further and truely know...what time it is...and that time is to "Wake Up" and "Know Your Self". If you are a follower of any so-called Religion and you don't Absolutely know your African self...Ancistors...then that Religion no matter how devoted you are to it...and how much you pray in it...will not "Liberate you" from the System of White Superimacy". The Creator gave us every thing we need to carry us through this life...with the guidance of our "Elders" and "Ancistors". We are born in the same "Fabric of Spirituality" as the "Univirse" and are only Created in "It" and not any so-called ...Man Made, Concocted, Sanctified Racist, White Superimist Religions who are "All" fighting (At War) and killing each other today and yesterday and at the same time all claim "Abraham" as their "Father"?! There has never been or never will be a such thing as a "War" fought over, by or for "Spirituality" for it is Created by the Creator and is one in the same...there is no need for "War" However all Religions are man made, controled, fought over, killed over, invaded for, condones Slavery and the oppression of the Woman...to keep her in her Place...according to Religion. The so-called African Ancistors only knew Spirituality and only was indroduced to "Religions" after contact-Invasion, Distruction, Interuption, corruption and in-Slavement by the Arabs and other self declaired white Indo-Europians or Aryans.

Ase`

Note: Every Patriarcal system: meaning Male dominated...places the Woman at the Bottom of their Socity to control her. The system of white superimacy has all ways been a Patriarcal or White Male Dominated system of Control, Fear and Intemidation of the Masses and the Woman...and as the woman is controled, Slavery and other oppressive acts are justified by Sanctified Racist Doctrins of False Worship that is Religion that is the System of Control itself...used by those who "Made it Up in the First Place".

An interesting and off base conclusion, but this section is on disagreement between husband and wife. That was one English translation, but here is another that mentions nothing about beating.

Maulana Muhammad Ali Translation

In any case, it does also depend on which expression of Islam you are discussing. Men's perversions of religious doctrine is nothing new.




Let's be real here. Most Muslims in the world go by the meaning of beating the woman. The NOI are not even real Muslims. They are just like the Uncle Tom Christians, only they sniff the balls of Arabs. Same enslaved mind, only a different slave master that also hates them.

[B]Hotep

Note: Every Patriarcal system: meaning Male dominated...places the Woman at the Bottom of their Socity to control her. The system of white superimacy has all ways been a Patriarcal or White Male Dominated system of Control, Fear and Intemidation of the Masses and the Woman...and as the woman is controled, Slavery and other oppressive acts are justified by Sanctified Racist Doctrins of False Worship that is Religion that is the System of Control itself...used by those who "Made it Up in the First Place".

True indeed.

PEACE

here is some background on (the first 10 verses of) sura 66 of the qu'ran:

http://ali-dashti-23-years.tripod.com/

Mariya the Copt, a slave-girl who was sent from Egypt as a gift to the Prophet. She bore him a son, Ebrahim, who died in infancy.
<snip>
One day Mariya went to see the Prophet at Hafsa's house. Hafsa was not at home. He took Mariya into the bedroom and lay down with her. Hafsa came back. In great indignation she shouted at him, "Why are you lying with your slave-girl on my bed?" In order to placate Hafsa, the Prophet swore that he would never touch Mariya again. When the storm abated, and perhaps because he was fond of Mariya or affected by her hurt feelings and complaints about the interdict, he changed his mind. His conduct was justified by the revelation of the first five verses of sura 66 (ot-Tahrim):

“O Prophet, why do you lay an interdict on something that God has made permissible for you, seeking to placate your wives? God is forgiving, merciful."

amusingly, muhammad's attempts to please his wife means nothing to "god" as "god" admonishes muhammad for denying himself with one of his concubines.

muhammad already has atleast two wives at this point...mariya was rightfully his...why deny his own desires to please his wife...