The Hyksos from a black perspective:

In my reading of the Sirius Mystery, which I have yet to complete but have read the chapter, “The Rising of the Serpents Tooth” my suspicions that the Hyksos were an African tribe grew and now had a source. In the chapter a book was referenced that was published around 1967, “Lost Worlds of Africa”, by James Wellard, witch I now have on order. In this book there is a reference to “The People of the Chariots” that describes an ancient African Empire of the Libyan Desert. These people were called the Garamantes and their Empire goes undated and unexplored as the ruins waste away in the desert to this very day. The Dogon are suspected to be descendants of the Garamantes. Other historians such as Herodotus, writing in 450BC also makes references to these Garamantes people and their Chariots. Also we have another historian that has referenced them and their Chariots, Strabo.

As I was reading this it came to me that these Garamantes just might be our Hyksos. The Garamantes had a continued and long history of constantly raiding the Ethiopians in their Chariots and pillaging Ethiopian villages. As I did more research on the net there is indeed ancient ruins in the Libyan Desert, that have basically gone untouched by archeologist because they are in odd locations.

In the white mans standard history of the Hyksos we have a problem that arise to me as I was looking at a map of ancient Egypt. Understand that in ancient Egypt the water levels of the Nile and the Delta were much higher then they are today, much of the Delta of Egypt has dried up. So my question became in looking at the route the Hyksos would have had to take in order to reach Memphis as the white man presents them would have taken them right into the Nile River. How did they cross a River or a marsh land Delta with Chariots? You ever ride you bicycle through mud? Surely the Egyptians with their harden Army would have took this as a perfect point of ambushing the Hyksos, while their Chariots were stuck in the mud or while they were crossing a raging river.

Something just doesn’t add up with this picture. One reason the white man would continue this perception is to place him in Egypt and being responsible for the growth of Egypt. But in reality the Hyksos crossing a river or marsh lands of the Delta in Chariots to war with the Egyptians may be one of the biggest myths created by the white man because they see Rome as being the originator of the Chariot.

With this new information of the Garamantes Empire of Libya that is historically recorded as having Chariots and running frequent raids on surrounding nations I now suspect they are the original Hyksos people. Manetho records them as coming from the North, which caused the assumption that they came from Jerusalem and reinforces the white mans desire to establish them as the original Chariot inventor. But what if they followed the Mediterranean Libyan coastline until reaching the Delta. This route would indeed make them come from the North as they approached Memphis. This rout also has no obstructions such as river or marshlands that would hamper a chariot and horses.

What is your thought on this newfound information?

This is a page that has some basic information on them.
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/200403/libya.s.forgotten.desert.kingdom.htm

YOU cannot type a thread with information and say "Just might" after that any thing you say is merley specultive or subjective and thus not credible.

No, its only speculative and subjective, not discredited just like the white mans explanation of the Hyksos. None of us were actually there, thus all information is subjective when dealing with History.

Do you have anything to add that may refute or inhance the information?

http://manuampim.com/ramesesIII.htm

Well....I had to post this for you. Number #1. It is directly off the tomb of Ramses III and depicts the fact that there were white people somewhere. However, this is not the first image. History reflects that we have been at war with the Asians for quite some time.

Remember, there was no Europe as we know it back then. They called them Asian. Caucus means dead and Asians a man...so cauc-asian was a dead man....no skin color. Now we can play all the games we want to, but then that places us in the position of having to say that our people back then did not correctly depict what they saw or was in contact with. This time period would have been right around the so called birth of Moses...and based upon the drawings...the hyksos were there already.

No, its only speculative and subjective, not discredited just like the white mans explanation of the Hyksos. None of us were actually there, thus all information is subjective when dealing with History.

Do you have anything to add that may refute or inhance the information?

Well, in terms of enhancement, I would suggest consulting a very good spell check program, accessible through most modern word processors, and running each of your posts through that before presenting them on the board as a means to deplore the arguments of others.

As far as refutation, since there was not much substance to your post, I would posit only this consideration: that you presented the connection between the Dogon people and the Libyans on a spurious basis; i.e. that they are both located West of Kamit. The augustine scholarship of Cheikh Anta Diop in The Cultural Unity of Black Africa delineates the problem with making the Libyan people into a wholly African phenomenon by virtue of the Amazonian phenomenon unique to Northeast Africa, situated so close to Europe and ripe for the inundation of its hordes.

Furthermore, you have supposed that the geography of the Delta is dismissive of passage through the Delta of Kamit with chariots, as if the entire country was conquered with a single campaign, rather than the gradual acquisition of Northern and then Southern lands which characterized the less sophisticated hordes of the Hyksos.

To this we can append the following difficulty: you have not established *which* battles would have necessitated the passage of a horse or a chariot or both across any difficult terrain, or whether this has been confirmed as a problem by the ambiguous "white man historians" who you so vehemently lambast (if the problem is with them, I then wonder, how come you don't present these issues to those persons in a public and scholarly forum?). So in other words, you are attempting to sweep aside empirical evidence in favor of inductive reasoning, which alone cannot suffer its original form when further questions are posed, such as those I've above mentioned, and this especially in matters of archaeology.

Peace.

Well....I had to post this for you. Number #1. It is directly off the tomb of Ramses III and depicts the fact that there were white people somewhere. However, this is not the first image. History reflects that we have been at war with the Asians for quite some time.

Please do not show me cartoon characters that have been colorized by someone who forced the image to fit what they believe. Please show me an unedited photograph of the Egyptian antiquities, preferably containing the museum catalog number.


Remember, there was no Europe as we know it back then. They called them Asian. Caucus means dead and Asians a man...so cauc-asian was a dead man....no skin color. Now we can play all the games we want to, but then that places us in the position of having to say that our people back then did not correctly depict what they saw or was in contact with. This time period would have been right around the so called birth of Moses...and based upon the drawings...the hyksos were there already.

You have totally, totally, totally confused the Egyptian time-line. Ahmose I was the Pharaoh that kicked the Hyksos out, which you place as the Biblical Exodus, which would have been the time of Moses, which would have been the beginning of the 18th Dynasty.

How in the world have you jumped Moses all the way up to Ramesses III who was of Dynasty 20 witch was 420 years after Dynasty 18?

You obviously have absolutely no concept of the Egyptian Time-Line and what Pharaohs reigned in what period.

Well, in terms of enhancement, I would suggest consulting a very good spell check program, accessible through most modern word processors, and running each of your posts through that before presenting them on the board as a means to deplore the arguments of others.

As far as refutation, since there was not much substance to your post, I would posit only this consideration: that you presented the connection between the Dogon people and the Libyans on a spurious basis; i.e. that they are both located West of Kamit. The augustine scholarship of Cheikh Anta Diop in The Cultural Unity of Black Africa delineates the problem with making the Libyan people into a wholly African phenomenon by virtue of the Amazonian phenomenon unique to Northeast Africa, situated so close to Europe and ripe for the inundation of its hordes.

Furthermore, you have supposed that the geography of the Delta is dismissive of passage through the Delta of Kamit with chariots, as if the entire country was conquered with a single campaign, rather than the gradual acquisition of Northern and then Southern lands which characterized the less sophisticated hordes of the Hyksos.

To this we can append the following difficulty: you have not established *which* battles would have necessitated the passage of a horse or a chariot or both across any difficult terrain, or whether this has been confirmed as a problem by the ambiguous "white man historians" who you so vehemently lambast (if the problem is with them, I then wonder, how come you don't present these issues to those persons in a public and scholarly forum?). So in other words, you are attempting to sweep aside empirical evidence in favor of inductive reasoning, which alone cannot suffer its original form when further questions are posed, such as those I've above mentioned, and this especially in matters of archaeology.

Peace.

To this we can append the following difficulty: you have not established *which* battles would have necessitated the passage of a horse or a chariot or both across any difficult terrain, or whether this has been confirmed as a problem by the ambiguous "white man historians" who you so vehemently lambast (if the problem is with them, I then wonder, how come you don't present these issues to those persons in a public and scholarly forum?). So in other words, you are attempting to sweep aside empirical evidence in favor of inductive reasoning, which alone cannot suffer its original form when further questions are posed, such as those I've above mentioned, and this especially in matters of archaeology.

Information about the African Garamantes Empire of Libya has just come to my attention but I always suspected the Hyksos were simply another African Tribe. I know have more credence to that fact.

Did you know of an African Tribe dating back as far as the Hyksos that used Chariots before you read my post?

Keita,

These would be real photos of Egyptian antiquates of Ramesses III tomb. As you look through them you will see the true image of the one you tried to pass off on me.
The photo is called “view 57”. Please look at it closely.
http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/pharaons/ramses3/e_ramses3.htm

There is NO white people.

I also have the book “The Complete Valley of the Kings” ISBN 0-500-05080-5.

Information about the African Garamantes Empire of Libya has just come to my attention but I always suspected the Hyksos were simply another African Tribe. I know have more credence to that fact.

Did you know of an African Tribe dating back as far as the Hyksos that used Chariots before you read my post?

You do not have more "credence to the fact", in fact what you do have is ancient testimony that there were Libyans who possessed the same technology as the Hyksos, and the irrational idea that these are somehow connected to the Dogon, who for whatever reason (probably the two peoples' dissimilarity) do not have the chariot as a cultural fixture.

Now, to the Libyans being an indigenous African people, this issue has already been clarified by Cheikh Anta Diop, many, many years ago.

So, once again you've lost, because you've failed to establish any criteria for even the contiguity of the Dogon people and Libyan charioteers, and once doing that, of the commonality of these African Dogon charioteers and the Hyksos.

Peace.

Now, to the Libyans being an indigenous African people, this issue has already been clarified by Cheikh Anta Diop, many, many years ago.

Please give Book title and ISBN also page numbers of the information.

Please give Book title and ISBN also page numbers of the information.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0907015441/sr=1-13/qid=1156516988/ref=sr_1_13/102-6811432-3956143?ie=UTF8&s=books

The Cultural Unity of Black Africa . Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop

ISBN: 0-88378-049-6

pp. 62-66 deal with the subject of Libya.

Got it on order.

What is it in the book that you say it supports the Hyksos as being Caucasian?

Besides the fact that all of us was told this by the white man.

You know, you could really learn a lot if you were not so adamant and zealous about a perspective that has no merits other than what you have chosen in the alley of your own mind to give them.

The photo #57 is not the same one as I have posted at all. However, I do have something to say in regards to your attempts and the fashion you have chosen to address them.

1. You have given no respect to our ancestors or the people who wrote a couple of hundred years before the person you call Yeshua, aka Jesus.

2. You have in your own way insisted that they HAD TO BE LYING, even though they were closer to the situation than anyone. You have insisted that they were color blind and DID NOT PAINT WHAT THEY SAW. You have placed your own time line to history to try and conform to your own beliefs instead of facts. There is only one time line as it relates to Kemet, and I have yet to see you or anyone else use it yet. Because if it was used, it would place things further back in time than what it presently is.

3. You have disrespected every African scholar who went to Africa to do their own research, instead of regurgitating something that you say white people taught them...scholars that we can be darn sure would not choose to or want to give the white man any more credit than what is there...being that they have been labeled as AFRICAN-CENTERED.

4. You have acted as if YOU ARE THE HOLY GRAIL of information and history and it has become evident in the fact that you are ordering books and material that you don't have but should have had a long time ago.

5. Even the photo link I placed up there is not the entire photo, which you would have known and spoke on if you was really doing your home work...so don't act as if you have ALL THE PHOTOS of what was and is there when it is evident that you don't have them.

6. Since I know enough about our scholars to understand that in the area of history, we and they would be willing to claim anything that relates to our people or our existence, I am more than 1000% sure that had the hyksos been anywhere near black, they would have claimed that too. They would have claimed any and everything that would or could have excluded that white man out of our history.

The very idea that they didn't simply means that they couldn't.

7. If you were actually and honestly doing your research from a historical perspective, you would know where the stories of Moses, Abraham, the flood and what it really means came from instead of trying to treat it as REAL HISTORY.

8. If you were honestly doing research you would know "what the bible is a treatise of" instead of history. You would know what every name and the position of that name means as it relates to the treatise, instead of history.

9. There is really a lot for you to learn, but not in your present mind- set. It has become obvious that you are insisting on trying to attach names and history to us that nobody in the world is doing or has done, even though it would have been to their advantage to do so...even if it was for nothing but to exclude the white man out of our history.

10. It is for all the above reasons that you and I can not talk. It is for all the above reasons that you have limited your own growth and development. You remind me of the future historian. The one who would try and write a history about South Africa and then try to ignore the 5 million white people who are there.

11. This is the most level headed post I have written to you, because normally you piss me off to no degree with your "intellectual ignorance"...and if you understood the previos nine points you can see why. You think...but you don't REALLY THINK. Well let me go and leave you to waddle in your own mess.
Peace Out.

This is what you need to figure out.

Why do you need the white man in order to explain and understand our ancestors ancient Black History?

You are the one that has yet to show authentic Egyptian Antiquates depicting Caucasians.

Even with this absence of authentic Egyptian Antiquates you have totally accepted the white man simply telling Caucasians at one time set upon the throne of Egypt.

I ask you to prove that……

This is what you need to figure out.

Why do you need the white man in order to explain and understand our ancestors ancient Black History?

You are the one that has yet to show authentic Egyptian Antiquates depicting Caucasians.

Even with this absence of authentic Egyptian Antiquates you have totally accepted the white man simply telling Caucasians at one time set upon the throne of Egypt.

I ask you to prove that……

I do not recall my husband stating that he accepted anything relating to what some white people said. Maybe you should look at his 11 points and see where you stand and who you are disrespecting...wise one.

Why do you need the white man in order to explain and understand our ancestors ancient Black History?

You sound mildly retarded. Are you saying that every author that you have quoted was a Black one? Are you saying that of these black scholars, not one of them leaned on a white scholar's discoveries? If not, then why are you introducing so spurious a criteria as the race of the scholar in question into this discussion?

You do know that the majority of the relics and documents upon which the study of the ancient Middle East and North Africa rest were discovered by white people, right?

Would a proper melination of the pupils suddenly make the Libyan Tamahu, depicted in the Biban El-Molouk document, any less white than they are?

Do you know the translation of the word, "Tamahu"?

I don’t really pay attention to personal opinions. If he wants to teach then let him show me something. But you must be warned; I am not the type of brother that will let someone freely spread ignorance. Thus I will correct any errors and your first error is accepting from the white man that the Hyksos were white. Otherwise show me the proof.

I am continuing to wait on those Egyptian antiquates that show Caucasians on the Throne of Egypt.

If you cannot produce that without using edited and re-colorized images done in paint-shop please do not teach from this point on to our young brothers and sisters that a white man ruled us in Egypt before the Roman Occupation.

It did not happen and you cannot prove that it did. The white man did not exist beyond year 2000BC.

Obviously he doesn't know. I think that's what my husband has been trying to tell him all along. Obviously any history (providing he studies any at all..lol) that goes against his biblical theory he just throws away and leeches onto something else to try and confirm what can not be confirmed. Them tamahu got his whole head messed up now. My husband posted the picture from Bibon el-moluk and he is still in denial.

Are you saying that every author that you have quoted was a Black one?

Nope.


Are you saying that of these black scholars, not one of them leaned on a white scholar's discoveries?

Nope.


If not, then why are you introducing so spurious a criteria as the race of the scholar in question into this discussion?

I didn’t do that, you did. You are the one that started slinging “Diop” all over the place. I guess you thought since he is black and I am black that I was just going to say “ooooh ok never mind”. To bad, throwing black faces up in my face don’t work to good. You talking to an independent brother that is able to think independently.

Let me as you a question. In all of Diop’s studies and books does he ever talk about an Ancient African Kingdom of Libya that utilized the Chariot drawn by four horses?

If not then what makes you thank Diop has anything to do with this subject?

Why are you so adamant on making the Hyksos Caucasians?


You do know that the majority of the relics and documents upon which the study of the ancient Middle East and North Africa rest were discovered by white people, right?

And this is relevant to this conversation, how?


Would a proper melination of the pupils suddenly make the Libyan Tamahu, depicted in the Biban El-Molouk document, any less white than they are?

Please give a web site link to this information. Thank you.


Do you know the translation of the word, "Tamahu"?

No, but what does that have to do with the African Garamantes Empire and peoples of Libya and how does it disprove the Hyksos were African when you have already been shown DNA genome technology that proves Caucasians did not exist before 2000BC?

Bring me ancient European antiquates that date back further then 2000BC and I will re-evaluate my suspicions.

Obviously he doesn't know. I think that's what my husband has been trying to tell him all along. Obviously any history (providing he studies any at all..lol) that goes against his biblical theory he just throws away and leeches onto something else to try and confirm what can not be confirmed. Them tamahu got his whole head messed up now. My husband posted the picture from Bibon el-moluk and he is still in denial.
You talking about that picture that was done in Photo Shop of cartoon characters?

Be advised, Photo-Shop created images IS NOT Egyptian antiquities.

I didn’t do that, you did. You are the one that started slinging “Diop” all over the place. I guess you thought since he is black and I am black that I was just going to say “ooooh ok never mind”.

B.S. I threw Diop's name into the mix because he formulated the Two Cradles Theory, which explains the peculiarities of those cultures which confronted the African people in Asia, Kamit, and Northwest Africa by their dispersal from a common cultural element in the Northern Cradle. I asserted his thesis primarily because it was scrutinized by many of his white contemporaries, who apparently saw a great threat in their Master White Race being reduced to a few savage tribes to the West and to the North of Kamit.

To bad, throwing black faces up in my face don’t work to good. You talking to an independent brother that is able to think independently.

And to spell, and to reference, independent of the accepted norms. Why don't you educate yourself further before engaging in these types of discussions? Bull-headedness does not make for effective argumentation.

Let me as you a question. In all of Diop’s studies and books does he ever talk about an Ancient African Kingdom of Libya that utilized the Chariot drawn by four horses?

He talked about the Libyans having contributed NOTHING to world civilization. He talked about the Libyans being white boys. He had much to say about the Berbers being, primarily, a white race. He also talked about the Dogon, but never made any connection between them and the Libyans, who again, he assigned to the Northern Cradle.

And, for everything that he mentioned concerning the Libyans, he personally consulted the Histories of Herodotus (i.e. he didn't wait for The Sirius Mystery to hit the stands), and this he did before the advent of the internet, when familiarity with Herodotus was simply a requirement of the respectable modern historian.

So, in other words, he knew Herodotus better than you.

Why are you so adamant on making the Hyksos Caucasians?

Mainly because there were no indigenous Africans with Semitic names who were worshippers of Set at that time or any other time in African history, and also, because their warlike culture is consistent with similar invasions that occurred all throughout the Black world at exactly the same period as the invasion of the Hyksos.

Quote:
You do know that the majority of the relics and documents upon which the study of the ancient Middle East and North Africa rest were discovered by white people, right?


And this is relevant to this conversation, how?

Because it begs the question of what materials might actually meet your standards of "independent black man research". It also makes one wonder whether you have viewed any of these original artifacts for yourself to call the Libyans, etc. "Black people", or to make stupid comments like the Aamu were the Anu when the words and meanings for the two were distinct all throughout the history of Kamit.

Please give a web site link to this information. Thank you.

I don't depend on the internet for this information. I will return, most probably tomorrow evening, with a comprehensive list of my evidences for all that I have said here.

Peace.

tell me something that i can know for certain in real time.

B.S. I threw Diop's name into the mix because he formulated the Two Cradles Theory, which explains the peculiarities of those cultures which confronted the African people in Asia, Kamit, and Northwest Africa by their dispersal from a common cultural element in the Northern Cradle. I asserted his thesis primarily because it was scrutinized by many of his white contemporaries, who apparently saw a great threat in their Master White Race being reduced to a few savage tribes to the West and to the North of Kamit.

As I said, you are the one that started slinging “Diop” around in the conversation. And as I said, Diop was unaware of the new DNA genome information that reveals the European could not have been humanly evolved enough before 2000BC. Thus those savage tribes you are referring to and Diop is referring to had to have been Africans.

So are you saying because these tribes were savage acting that they could not have been African?


Mainly because there were no indigenous Africans with Semitic names who were worshippers of Set at that time or any other time in African history, and also, because their warlike culture is consistent with similar invasions that occurred all throughout the Black world at exactly the same period as the invasion of the Hyksos.

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/teraneter.html

“Set” is a corruption of “Seth”.
“Amun” is a corruption of “Amma”, the Supreme Being of the Dogon.

The Dogon have an oral history of being the first to inhabit Egypt and then they spread to Libya. This oral history is in harmony with the expansion of the Ethiopian Empire that existed before Egypt was established as such.

the European could not have been humanly evolved enough before 2000BC. Thus those savage tribes you are referring to and Diop is referring to had to have been Africans.


Excuse my intrusion, but doesn't the fact that they weren't "humanly developed enough" explain their savagery? Forgive me if I'm reading you all wrong:)

tell me something that i can know for certain in real time.
OK,

DNA genome research being continuously performed at this very moment has already proven that the European DNA genome is too new to have been the Hyksos. Thus we have to begin looking for other alternatives for what people the Hyksos could have been.

When one does this we find a Great Empire in Libya that was called the Garamantes Empire. The Garamantians were an ancient African people that utilized lightweight Chariots that were pulled by four horses. As of this day the ruins of the Garamantes Empire go unexplored, unexcavated by any archeologist.

The Dogon of today say they are descendants of the Garamantes.

Egyptian theology is a derivative of the Dogon theology.

Excuse my intrusion, but doesn't the fact that they weren't "humanly developed enough" explain their savagery? Forgive me if I'm reading you all wrong:)
Basically the European was living as Cave Men and hunter gathers, thus we cannot place them in a time of riding chariots and communicating with other people and having battle tactics before they even new what fire was.

When one does this we find a Great Empire in Libya that was called the Garamantes Empire. The Garamantians were an ancient African people that utilized lightweight Chariots that were pulled by four horses. As of this day the ruins of the Garamantes Empire go unexplored, unexcavated by any archeologist.

You are aware that on numerous occasions invading whites often pillaged a people and took over their culture/legacy and claimed it as their own, right? Case in point, what they and others did to ancient Khemet. So maybe that could explain the Dogons being the descendants of a once Black ethnic group-Garamantes....that is; if your Garamantes theory is correct. I shall research it for my own closure.

DNA genome research being continuously performed at this very moment has already proven that the European DNA genome is too new to have been the Hyksos.
show us this research and these conclusions.

show us this research and these conclusions.
https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html

As you can see on the map that shows the Human DNA genome routs of migration that populated the earth. As the map shows the time zone of 10,000BC you can see that there are only two routs that just began to appear in Europe. The DNA genome of these two migrations have been labeled as LLY22 and K, U, U5 (you will need to hold your mouse over the lines to see the labeling of the migration routs). LLY22 is one group of humans K, U and U5 represent three different groups. As you click on each one of those migration routs into Europe you will see they have a time of about 10,000BC for LLY22 and a time of 15,000BC for U5. The images associated with the migration routs are the people they became and represent today. Know we see that the ancient, ancient African clan that became the Caucasian did not begin to populate Europe until no later than 15,000BC. One reason for this is Europe was extremely cold and mostly covered in ice and this is what delayed the human population of Europe.

Now we have Europe seeing its first humans in 15000BC. Something occurred to those humans that caused their entire human evolutionary development to be reset. No one has looked at this or brought attention to it with the exception of me. But this is the case; we have intellectual ancient, ancient Africans or maybe Afro-Asians entering the land of Europe. But they eventually emerge from Europe as Caucasian Cave Men having deformities as large brows unable to communicate and have reverted back to hunter gather to survive.

What happen?

How did a people most likely looking like Aborigines of today splinter off to eventually enter European lands around 15000BC and emerge as white Cave Men to become the European people of today?

I say Aborigines because the next DNA genetic marker from the San Bushman of Africa is found in the Aborigine of Australia. This means the Aborigines are the second people of the earth descended from the San Bushman of Africa.

There are European Historians that have intentionally misdated European cave drawings in order to make them predate ancient African cave drawings for the simple reason there are white European Historians that will not accept they came from Africans.

The DNA genome project know proves they are lying about the dates because there were no cavemen in Europe around 32,000BC.

Spencer actually confronts several of these European Historians and shows them his data. They reject his scientific data and will outright say, “No, Africans come from us, we gave them language and civilization”.

Humans as we exist today have only been on this earth for about 60,000 years.
https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/about.html

You and I both understand Nature and we know that overtime nature will indeed adapt the human body to accommodate its environment to survive. It is said that the Caucasians have suppressed melanin and it became suppressed as they journeyed through the Ice Age of ancient Europe. If this was true then we should start seeing Caucasians born black in these days as their suppressed melanin becomes un-suppressed due to a reaction to the sun. But we don’t see nature responding in this way. Why not?

The truth of the matter is Caucasians don’t have melanin. The only way nature is not allowed to react in Caucasians and protect them from the effects of the sun is because their DNA at some point in time got altered, re-written from the original African DNA.

I suspect it was re-written when a small clan of ancient, ancient Africans ventured into the ancient Ice Age lands of Europe. How or what re-wrote the DNA of Caucasians has yet to be explored or tackled by any qualified study. But I began to speculate Aliens because of the amount of evidence of Aliens that can be found in studying ancient religion and mythology.

Every continues ancient nation has a mythological history of Aliens being responsible for establishing civilization. The Dogon call these Aliens, “Nummo or Nommo”. The Chinese dragon mythology is a direct descendant of Nummo theology from the Dogon. The earliest images of the Chinese dragons are beings that are dragon or fish like from the waste down and human from the waste up. That image is exactly what the Dogon describe as the second generation of the Nummo.

I shall research it for my own closure.

Very good, that is the type of attitude it takes.

How or what re-wrote the DNA of Caucasians has yet to be explored or tackled by any qualified study. But I began to speculate Aliens because of the amount of evidence of Aliens that can be found in studying ancient religion and mythology.

Every continues ancient nation has a mythological history of Aliens being responsible for establishing civilization. The Dogon call these Aliens, “Nummo or Nommo”. The Chinese dragon mythology is a direct descendant of Nummo theology from the Dogon. The earliest images of the Chinese dragons are beings that are dragon or fish like from the waste down and human from the waste up. That image is exactly what the Dogon describe as the second generation of the Nummo.

which is it, God or aliens? is God an alien?
you are, of course, aware that you sound like a madman?

The Dogon call these Aliens, “Nummo”. But the Dogon worship the Supreme Being called “Amma” in whom the “Nummo” exist to do work for. The Dogon are monotheist who keeps the historical record of the Nummo by having ceremonies in which they act out the first encounter. Each tribe of the Dogon is responsible for keeping and maintaining different aspects of the historical events. One tribe would be called the Fire Cult; another would be called the Cult of Lebe (first man), all representing different aspects of an oral history that predates man etc…

Do I believe Amma is an alien? What else would IT be, from our prospective?


you are, of course, aware that you sound like a madman?

Well, now you see why I ease into these types of things, but even the Egyptian gods have an origin. Where man began to corrupt the idea is when we started reinventing the Nummo as gods and worshiping them to the point of forgetting about Amma, The Supreme Being of all religious systems.

You can call the Supreme Being by any name you desire so as long as that Name is tied to The Supreme Being of a system of religion.

I prefer YH, YHVH, and EL etc… Because these are the latest known names of the Supreme Being, but I might start saying “Amma”, it is all the same so as long as it is tied to Supreme.

We have brothers and sisters that can’t accept the black man populated the earth. LORD knows they would just give up on information such as this. And the bad thing about it is all of this comes from Africans. Where are those that was so joyous about ATR?

Well, this is hardcore ATR that is even proven to be a Truth.

Do I believe Amma is an alien? What else would IT be, from our prospective?

so alien = God? God is an alien? we should follow the teachings of a bug eyed monster? why? what does an alien know about what i am faced with?

I prefer YH, YHVH, and EL etc… Because these are the latest known names of the Supreme Being, but I might start saying “Amma”, it is all the same so as long as it is tied to Supreme.
can you say AMEN?

so alien = God? God is an alien? we should follow the teachings of a bug eyed monster? why? what does an alien know about what i am faced with?

You already have been following the teachings of Aliens. Where do you think the concept of civilization comes from? Where do you think the concept of accounting comes from? Where do you think the concepts of all religions come from? Who told man what bushes was good for medicines and cures? Who taught man how to raise corn and harvest food? Did you know gardening is a science?

As I said, you have been following the teachings of Aliens since you spent your first dollar.


can you say AMEN?

If that is the name you prefer…….”AMEN” represents the name of the Supreme Being, Does IT not?


Isa:56:7: Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Micah:4:5: For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.


Now you know years ago I would not have agreed to this but in my continual contemplation I have come to see if GOD is Supreme then HE must be Supreme of all religious systems no matter what name humans have attached to that Supreme Being as long as the name itself is historically and theologically recorded as being the name of the Supreme Being.

Where do you think the concept of civilization comes from? Where do you think the concept of accounting comes from? Where do you think the concepts of all religions come from? Who told man what bushes was good for medicines and cures? Who taught man how to raise corn and harvest food?
africans..........black africans

africans..........black africans
Well, according to the Dogon Aliens taught Africans all of that. The Dogon call them The Nummo that was sent by Amma to do the work of Amma.

Well, according to the Dogon Aliens taught Africans all of that.
the dogon can kiss my escape key...........:garbage:

GOD is an alien? come on with it.......

GOD is an alien? come on with it.......
Amma is the Universe, the Fabric that connects all worlds and life forms, the Origin of all things, and the Origin of Sound that brings into existence and being.

If that is not an Alien existence then what is?

You can’t grasp it because when you hear the word alien your mind immediately locks onto the Hollywood version.

You have to think bigger then that.

Amma is the Universe, the Fabric that connects all worlds and life forms, the Origin of all things, and the Origin of Sound that brings into existence and being.

If that is not an Alien existence then what is?

You can’t grasp it because when you hear the word alien your mind immediately locks onto the Hollywood version.

You have to think bigger then that.
:martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian: :martian:

Amma is the Universe, the Fabric that connects all worlds and life forms, the Origin of all things, and the Origin of Sound that brings into existence and being.

If that is not an Alien existence then what is?

You can’t grasp it because when you hear the word alien your mind immediately locks onto the Hollywood version.

You have to think bigger then that.

So explain to us what an alien is?
I can't believe I'm asking you this!
Question number 2,
you beieve in aliens? but my experiences with the spiritual world you mock?
Ummmmmmmmm interesting that you would question my mental status:blush:

So explain to us what an alien is?

I just did.


you beieve in aliens? but my experiences with the spiritual world you mock?
Ummmmmmmmm interesting that you would question my mental status

Yes. I did not mock your experience with the spiritual world, I simply test the authenticity and it produced negative results. This does not refute your claim but only means you are not willing to make your claims and experiences manifest physically so that your claims are verifiable by others.

I just did.


Yes. I did not mock your experience with the spiritual world, I simply test the authenticity and it produced negative results. This does not refute your claim but only means you are not willing to make your claims and experiences manifest physically so that your claims are verifiable by others.

What one experiences spiritually is not for show and tell.
If people would stop looking with their eyes and open up their hearts/souls to the good things in life, this world would be better off!
You don't rule over anyone but yourself,so it's not up to you to test me especially when you have flunked a few exams as well.
We have to understand that we as a people have been divided equally in all aspects of life,once we figure out that one is not above the other we will be as one again.
Peace:kiss2:

I simply test the authenticity and it produced negative results.
has anyone here ever been able to "prove" anything to you at all? i don't think so.
you reject all that we say yet you expect us to accept what you say.
you seem to hold yourself as superior to every human on the planet.
must be lonely up there.

What one experiences spiritually is not for show and tell.

Then why do you run around Telling everybody; what, are you just Showing off?

Are you just teasing the people who don’t have the ability?
Are you gloating over us less enhanced folks that should be subjugated to follow you because you have the power, because you have a link between this world and the other?
:ilu:

has anyone here ever been able to "prove" anything to you at all? i don't think so.
you reject all that we say yet you expect us to accept what you say.
you seem to hold yourself as superior to every human on the planet.
must be lonely up there.
I don’t reject anything, I simply ask you to bring your evidence.

No one has done that yet.

You have no evidence that the white man wrote the Old Testament and Holy Scriptures.

I have evidence that he did not.

What is so complex about that?

Then why do you run around Telling everybody; what, are you just Showing off?

Are you just teasing the people who don’t have the ability?
Are you gloating over us less enhanced folks that should be subjugated to follow you because you have the power, because you have a link between this world and the other?
:ilu:

There were several threads about dreams and things we experience spiritually so I felt the need to share.
People like yourself doubt these things ao I don't get a chance to share them often.
I never gloated or made you feel inadequate because you don't experience this,you did that on your own.
Who said anything about following me?
I am a student learning myself.
Your perception of people and the world is tainted with self inflicted doubt and false accusations towards others in order to make you feel like you've accomplished something.
It's really amazing how you have literally mocked everyone's belief here but ask me do I want others to follow me?
So at the end of the world are you telling me that you will be the last one standing?

So at the end of the world are you telling me that you will be the last one standing?

The world will never end because there is no end to GOD.

The world will never end because there is no end to GOD.

That's not what your bible says!:tweety:

That's not what your bible says!:tweety:
The promise to David the King will be fulfilled and the bloodline of David the King will set on the Throne forever, being leader of a Holy People that will inherit the earth.

The promise to David the King will be fulfilled and the bloodline of David the King will set on the Throne forever, being leader of a Holy People that will inherit the earth.

You never quit do you?

Continuation:


This would be the god of the Hyksos….
http://touregypt.net/godsofegypt/satet.htm
Take close noticed that it has Egyptian overtones and most of all a relation to Sirius A, which is found in the Dogon cosmology. The Dogon have an oral history that explains they are descendants of the Garamantes Empire of North Africa which is so ancient that it dates back to when Libya was a full flourishing jungle. When you study the Garamantes Empire you find they were called, “The People of the Chariot”. These are some photos of ancient rock paintings found in Libya.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://clyde.winters.tripod.com/Image200.jpg&imgrefurl=http://clyde.winters.tripod.com/garamante.html&h=548&w=821&sz=86&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=mmtAcnw62Lp9mM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=144&prev=/images%3Fq%3DGaramantes%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26l r%3D%26sa%3DN

More cosmology from the Hyksos……..
http://www.nemo.nu/ibisportal/0egyptintro/1egypt/index.htm

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lexicorient.com/e.o/ill/satet01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://lexicorient.com/e.o/satet.htm&h=412&w=230&sz=28&hl=en&start=18&tbnid=Xge0WrF53XKFVM:&tbnh=125&tbnw=70&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSatet%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D% 26sa%3DN

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/satettemple.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/satet.html&h=162&w=250&sz=9&hl=en&start=20&tbnid=OcljpESlgoafTM:&tbnh=72&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSatet%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D% 26sa%3DN

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lexicorient.com/e.o/ill/elephantine03.jpg&imgrefurl=http://lexicorient.com/e.o/elephantine.htm&h=265&w=230&sz=21&hl=en&start=31&tbnid=bFXHPFSghfF5OM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=97&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSatet%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26svnu m%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

So my question becomes…..Why would the Hyksos be worshipers of a god that is apart of Kemet cosmology?

Wouldn’t logic dictate that the god cosmology of the Hyksos would be completely foreign if they were in fact foreigners themselves?

This is utter lunacy.

These are the Gods of the HYKSOS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hittite_deities

PEACE

This is utter lunacy.

These are the Gods of the HYKSOS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hittite_deities

PEACE
This study is not about Hittites, it’s about Hyksos, specifically.

Thank you very much.

This Hyksos are the Hittites.

But those gods that you listed are Kemetic in origin, and were there long before the Hyksos appeared in Kemet.

But those gods that you listed are Kemetic in origin, and were there long before the Hyksos appeared in Kemet.

Exactly!

And as we all know the Hyksos were called “The Aamu People”, well what do you know? We have an Egyptian artifact describing the founders of Kemet as “The Anu People” and guess what? They served a god named “Seth”.
Could it be that after 4,000 years that
Anu = Aamu
Seth = Set

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/teraneter.html

Due to linguistic sounding and vocalized similarities I would say it is a very high possibility, because I haven’t seen a continues spelling for Amun = Amen = Amon = Amin etc…. But yet everybody understand which god it is of Egypt.

There ain’t no way in Hades that I will say the Hyksos were Caucasians because you have literally established the Caucasian as being the founder of Kemet.

How naive can you be?

How much of your ancestral soul are you willing to sell to the white man just so you can have a false cause to say the white man wrote the Old Testament.

Using this false and contortion of ancient Egyptian history in order to prejudice black people against the Old Testament is an evil and foul act that you are committing against the ancestors just to make your religious groups membership grow. You are recruiting black people under FASLE pretence.

Further more the Biblical Exodus dates to Akhenaten and Akhetaten through the Copper Scrolls of Qumran and the Aramaic Bible which actually has “Lord Ay” written in it. Which is another hard fact your religious group tends to ignore.

This is a prime example why I do not believe organized religion is the answer and way to GOD. People develop more of a loyalty to the group staying together and growing then they do to GOD and the reality of Historical facts.

Names of the Pharaohs:

The Pharaohs of Egypt had several names that they would go by. These were basically classified as Birth Name, Royal Name and Throne Name. The throne name was the most important in representing status and relations to gods and religious ideology.

White Egyptologist confuse us on the Hyksos period in trying to isolate the Hyksos from being Africans or Egyptian in nature and name. They do this in order to make us believe the Hyksos had what they call Semitic names, which distinguishes them from the Egyptians.

All the white man does when he gets to the Hyksos period is use the non-Egyptian name of the Pharaohs related to that period but it shall be shown that several Pharaohs not of the Hyksos period also had what we could construe as non-Egyptian names.

This is a name of a Pharaoh that was not of the Hyksos Period and conquered the Hyksos………
Birth Name: Ahmose; which translates as “Ah-Mose = The moon is rising”, which is not an Egyptian name and can very easily be seen as so called Semitic. His throne name was Nebpehtyre, which is clearly Egyptian and translates, as “The lord of strength is Ra”.

Another Pharaoh would be, Birth Name: Hatshepsut, which is translated as “Foremost of noble ladies”, which could also be seen as a so-called Semitic name. Her Throne Name was Maatkare; which is clearly Egyptian, which translates, as “Truth is the soul of Ra”.


Now let us look at the Hyksos Pharaohs…………

Birth Name: Sheshi; which is not translated. His Throne Name is Mayebre, which translates to, “Ma-Yeb-Ra = Seeing is the heart of Ra”, which is clearly an Egyptian name.

Birth Name; Kamose; which is not translated. His Throne Name is Wadjkheperre, which translates as, ”Wadj-kheper-re = Flourishing is the manifestation of Ra”, which is clearly of Egyptian origin.

With our basic knowledge we can even translate the name Kamose from looking at a non-Hyksos Pharaoh name, Ahmose. Ka-mose can be translated as “The Soul is Rising”.

Basically the white man and uninformed blacks simply lie to us by not revealing that there is no difference between the Hyksos Pharaohs names and some Pharaohs of any other dynasty.

What this begins to reveal is the Hyksos were not Caucasian, Semites, Eurasian or barbaric people but more integrated with Egyptian culture then what we have been told. I even began to suspect they actually rose up from a province within Egypt; they were Egyptians.

What is a "Pharoah"? Why do you insist on using these foreign (white) names for your people?

It is a known fact that one of RAMSES II's wives came from HATTI; he married her as a part of a treaty with the HITTITES (a grave mistake). Upon marrying her, he changed her name to a Kemetic one (that was also apart of the agreement).

This proves nothing.

Besides, the first and more prominent HYKSOS king on the throne did not have a Kemetic name.

Do you know what his name was?

Sam:

This particular thread is over your head and is too advanced for you to have a clear understanding. There will be no need for you to respond unless you have a specific question pertaining to the specific subject matter.

Thank you for cooperating.



Besides, the first and more prominent HYKSOS king on the throne did not have a Kemetic name.

Do you know what his name was?

Answer to your specific question:
http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/teraneter.html
His name was Tera-Neter.

The more I study, the more I began to despise words like Asiatic, Eurasian or Semitic.

I began to see these types of words as inventions by the white man to prevent from calling the ancient people of the region African.

When you look at the face of an Aborigine you can clearly see he is African. How did these people get from Africa all the way to Australia?

The route they would have had to take covers the entire lands that we now call Asia. The Aborigine was in Australia before the white man and they already had civilization thus they had been there before the white man for a very long time. Also in the DNA genome project the people of India and Australia are genetically the second people of the earth as being directly descended from the San Bushman. Aborigines are Africans and it is most likely their look today is how these so-called Asiatic, Semites or Eurasians looked like 5000 years ago.

Mentally when you hear words like Asiatic, Semite or Eurasian your mind immediately moves away from the mental image of an African. To remove that image or mental programming, look over these images as you repeat to yourself “Eurasian”, “Asiatic” and “Semite”.
http://www.arizonas-world.de/Australien/assets/images/Aborigine.jpg
http://www.janesoceania.com/australia_history/1908%20used%20-%20A%20Young%20South%20Australia%20Aborigine.jpg
http://www.csbsju.edu/alum/travel/images/australia/Aborigine%20dancer.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.csbsju.edu/alum/travel/images/australia/Aborigine%2520dancer.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.csbsju.edu/alum/travel/Australia%2520Images.htm&h=480&w=360&sz=76&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=_KNgLME0kcDPeM:&tbnh=129&tbnw=97&prev=/images%3Fq%3DThe%2BAborigine%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3De n%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tamarkin.com/gallery/edith_brown/Aborigine.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tamarkin.com/gallery2.htm&h=640&w=478&sz=170&hl=en&start=24&tbnid=7HjJ1eLe_wk7eM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=102&prev=/images%3Fq%3DThe%2BAborigine%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3 D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://k41.pbase.com/v3/94/17294/1/48682106.Aboriginalcropweb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pbase.com/sheila/image/48682106&h=512&w=640&sz=158&hl=en&start=41&tbnid=EPXAH15zkA4dlM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DThe%2BAborigine%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3 D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://k41.pbase.com/u20/jtrell/upload/36624246.OzAborigineIMG_4590.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pbase.com/jtrell/image/36624246&h=480&w=640&sz=132&hl=en&start=44&tbnid=VGhfDA5SY6xlmM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DThe%2BAborigine%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3 D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/what/jpc/echoes/pictures/aborigine.jpg
http://web.sbu.edu/theology/bychkov/aborigine.jpg
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/6304425376.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

The more I study, the more I began to despise words like Asiatic, Eurasian or Semitic.

I began to see these types of words as inventions by the white man to prevent from calling the ancient people of the region African.

When you look at the face of an Aborigine you can clearly see he is African. How did these people get from Africa all the way to Australia?

The route they would have had to take covers the entire lands that we now call Asia. The Aborigine was in Australia before the white man and they already had civilization thus they had been there before the white man for a very long time. Also in the DNA genome project the people of India and Australia are genetically the second people of the earth as being directly descended from the San Bushman. Aborigines are Africans and it is most likely their look today is how these so-called Asiatic, Semites or Eurasians looked like 5000 years ago.

Mentally when you hear words like Asiatic, Semite or Eurasian your mind immediately moves away from the mental image of an African. To remove that image or mental programming, look over these images as you repeat to yourself “Eurasian”, “Asiatic” and “Semite”.
http://www.arizonas-world.de/Australien/assets/images/Aborigine.jpg
http://www.janesoceania.com/australia_history/1908%20used%20-%20A%20Young%20South%20Australia%20Aborigine.jpg
http://www.csbsju.edu/alum/travel/images/australia/Aborigine%20dancer.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.csbsju.edu/alum/travel/images/australia/Aborigine%2520dancer.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.csbsju.edu/alum/travel/Australia%2520Images.htm&h=480&w=360&sz=76&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=_KNgLME0kcDPeM:&tbnh=129&tbnw=97&prev=/images%3Fq%3DThe%2BAborigine%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3De n%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tamarkin.com/gallery/edith_brown/Aborigine.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tamarkin.com/gallery2.htm&h=640&w=478&sz=170&hl=en&start=24&tbnid=7HjJ1eLe_wk7eM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=102&prev=/images%3Fq%3DThe%2BAborigine%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3 D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://k41.pbase.com/v3/94/17294/1/48682106.Aboriginalcropweb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pbase.com/sheila/image/48682106&h=512&w=640&sz=158&hl=en&start=41&tbnid=EPXAH15zkA4dlM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DThe%2BAborigine%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3 D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://k41.pbase.com/u20/jtrell/upload/36624246.OzAborigineIMG_4590.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pbase.com/jtrell/image/36624246&h=480&w=640&sz=132&hl=en&start=44&tbnid=VGhfDA5SY6xlmM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DThe%2BAborigine%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3 D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/what/jpc/echoes/pictures/aborigine.jpg
http://web.sbu.edu/theology/bychkov/aborigine.jpg
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/6304425376.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Brother,

This is why there are "theories" concerning continental draift and about "lost continents" such as Laurasia and Lemuria.

Personally, I am beginning to question all the "out of Africa" propositions reaching my own conclusion that the "Kemetic" references are themselves another devise to control and manipulate our thought process, another sectarian box for us to fit into and if we do not fit into that box then we are further labeled and ostracized.

I'm going back to the writings of Edward Cayce and what my Dad taught me concerning the Annunaki and the "Ennead", connecting the two...

I will accept criticism for this but that is why in some parts I am known as "Starchild"...

In this world but not of it!!

If we go deeper into those tombs in "Egypt" and conncet it with Vedic literature then those "myths" also go into extra-terrestrial origins so who is to say that Tia-Maat's earliest descendants (who may have been amphibian-like)didnt orignally colonize what is now a land mass submerged under the water.....

there are numerous underwater structures outside of india and japan...

Brother Samurai,

Please excuse me for digressing....did not intend to get the thread off topic...


Peace..

those "myths" also go into extra-terrestrial origins...
how would anyone travel through space? why would anyone from another biosphere be compatible with earth biology?
why would anyone with advanced technology not leave a trace?

how would anyone travel through space? why would anyone from another biosphere be compatible with earth biology?
why would anyone with advanced technology not leave a trace?
They did leave traces, an African tribe that was able to describe planets and their orbit before we even developed the technology to confirm what the Dogon were talking about.

As far as physical traces, well, Africa is an unexplored country for these things and archeology. And even if the white man did find something that 100% proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt, do you actually believe they would share it with us?

You are talking about a people who want even share the DNA results of Tutankhaten.

They did leave traces, an African tribe that was able to describe planets and their orbit before we even developed the technology to confirm what the Dogon were talking about.

As far as physical traces, well, Africa is an unexplored country for these things and archeology. And even if the white man did find something that 100% proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt, do you actually believe they would share it with us?

You are talking about a people who want even share the DNA results of Tutankhaten.
how would someone from another planet have compatible biology?
how would they travel?
why no radio or other emissions from sirius?

you have no evidence at all.

how would someone from another planet have compatible biology?
how would they travel?
why no radio or other emissions from sirius?

you have no evidence at all.

Not to mention, that nothing in DOGON theology (as presented by the DOGON themselves) makes any real allusion towards the extra-terrestrial ideal.

All the books that mention the DOGON, are all written by white pepople, with blatantly questionable motives.

Mentally when you hear words like Asiatic, Semite or Eurasian your mind immediately moves away from the mental image of an African. To remove that image or mental programming, look over these images as you repeat to yourself “Eurasian”, “Asiatic” and “Semite”.
http://www.arizonas-world.de/Austral.../Aborigine.jpg
http://www.janesoceania.com/australi...0Aborigine.jpg
http://www.csbsju.edu/alum/travel/im...e%20dancer.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/what/jpc/.../aborigine.jpg
http://web.sbu.edu/theology/bychkov/aborigine.jpg
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/63...1.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Why are you showing us pictures of ABORIGINES? Are you trying to pass these peoples off as EURASIAN?

When I think "EURASIAN, SEMITE and ASIATIC", I definitely do not think of a KAOORI (ABORIGINE). Nor is there any reason for me to do so.

They did leave traces, an African tribe that was able to describe planets and their orbit before we even developed the technology to confirm what the Dogon were talking about.

how do you feel about dr york?

how do you feel about dr york?
Who’s that?

Who’s that?

You know, I find it increasingly interesting that you seem to have never heard of any Black personality, within the realm of Afrocentrism (whether they are credible or not).

What rock did you crawl out from under, that you never heard of "Kemet, METU NETER, and DR YORK" prior to coming here? :confused:

You're continuing to tell on yourself.

You know, I find it increasingly interesting that you seem to have never heard of any Black personality, within the realm of Afrocentrism (whether they are credible or not).

Another one of your miss-leading statements.

I have actually had talks with some of his followers, but I wanted James’s explanation of who he is.

You need to sit-down when grown folks are talking.

I have actually had talks with some of his followers, but I wanted James’s explanation of who he is.
i asked you first.

You need to sit-down when grown folks are talking.
you do need to respect the rules here. no one needs to sit down and we are all grown here.
in fact, there are more doubts about you than him.
why is it so hard to get a clear answer out of you?

as your religion is based on the extraterrestrial origin how is any of it valid?

i asked you first.

Do you have a web page or something that I can look over?


you do need to respect the rules here.

And you need to tell that to Sam and Yourself
http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=442702&postcount=53
http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=445574&postcount=3

After a ridicules thread such as this.
http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=445298&postcount=3

You continue to show credence to Sam, why?

You continue to show credence to Sam, why?
you provide no explanation for your thesis.
why should you be believed?

you provide no explanation for your thesis.
why should you be believed?
The Egyptian time line is easily available information, I don have to prove anything that can be looked up by anyone wanting to know truth.

The Egyptian time line is easily available information, I don have to prove anything that can be looked up by anyone wanting to know truth.
you say that civilization was taught to man by extraterrestrials.
explain how that can be possible given the laws of physics or state that you deny the laws of physics.
tell me that general relativity is false.

you say that civilization was taught to man by extraterrestrials.
explain how that can be possible given the laws of physics or state that you deny the laws of physics.
tell me that general relativity is false.
You will have to elaborate on what you mean by general relativity.

You will have to elaborate on what you mean by general relativity.
you have no idea what i am talking about.
that is my answer, thank you.

how would anyone travel through space? why would anyone from another biosphere be compatible with earth biology?
why would anyone with advanced technology not leave a trace?

I will not address your first two questions because they call for speculation. As far as the last question is concerned evidence is in Vedi literature as I mentioned before. If one studies Mayan Cosmogony there is "trace evidence" as well.


It is quite possible that this evidence has been destroyed and or "hidden" from the general public.

There is a website entitled "Ancient Astronauts" which explores these possibilities and I personally shall not rule out what I view as ancient knowledge passed down as recorded as well no only in the Enuma Elish but the Hon. Elijah Muhammad's teaching concerning "Ezekiel's Wheel" and the "Mothership" were not mere symbolic interpretations...

Peace..

how would anyone travel through space? why would anyone from another biosphere be compatible with earth biology?
why would anyone with advanced technology not leave a trace?
I will not address your first two questions because they call for speculation. As far as the last question is concerned evidence is in Vedi literature as I mentioned before. If one studies Mayan Cosmogony there is "trace evidence" as well.


It is quite possible that this evidence has been destroyed and or "hidden" from the general public.

There is a website entitled "Ancient Astronauts" which explores these possibilities and I personally shall not rule out what I view as ancient knowledge passed down as recorded as well no only in the Enuma Elish but the Hon. Elijah Muhammad's teaching concerning "Ezekiel's Wheel" and the "Mothership" were not mere symbolic interpretations...

Peace..
if you are willing to sidestep the laws of physics and simple logic you are free to believe anything at all.
how valid are those beliefs? i do not accept anything that asks me to shut my mind down and forget all the laws of nature.
when people display total ignorance of the laws of physics it makes it impossible for me to take what they say as anything more than faerie tales.
anyone can make up anything.

PEACE BROTHER OMO:

but the Hon. Elijah Muhammad's teaching concerning "Ezekiel's Wheel" and the "Mothership" were not mere symbolic interpretations...

Peace..

Not doubting your perspective, but how did you come to this understanding?

Because it's my understanding, that at least a good 90% of T.H.E.M.'s doctrine was/is based on metaphysics. How/why then is this aspect not counted amongst it?

PEACE

earth is the only planet that humans are compatible with.
our biology is not compatible with the other planets in this solar system.
we could live no where else.

how then can a being from another star be compatible with earth biology? our air and water would poison them.
how could they even exist here let alone teach us and breed with us?

if none of these questions are addressed your religion is not based in objective reality.

earth is the only planet that humans are compatible with.
our biology is not compatible with the other planets in this solar system.
we could live no where else.

how then can a being from another star be compatible with earth biology? our air and water would poison them.
how could they even exist here let alone teach us and breed with us?

if none of these questions are addressed your religion is not based in objective reality.

earth is the only planet that humans are compatible with.
our biology is not compatible with the other planets in this solar system.
we could live no where else.

All of this is an assumption.
So you are saying the entire Dogon Cosmogony is a lie?


how then can a being from another star be compatible with earth biology?

The same way the Egyptian gods are depicted with human bodies and animal heads.
Do you believe that Being once existed?

My husband once told me that "unless you can prove something based upon what you can physically examine to arrive at an answer, or unless you can examine the metaphysics of a philosophy or thought to show and prove its reality, it don't hold any weight at all in terms of accepting it as being true".

So until you are able to prove all your suppositions, regardless of where it came from, you need to save your star trek adventures for the movie makers and fakers. Just a thought.

My husband once told me that "unless you can prove something based upon what you can physically examine to arrive at an answer, or unless you can examine the metaphysics of a philosophy or thought to show and prove its reality, it don't hold any weight at all in terms of accepting it as being true".

So until you are able to prove all your suppositions, regardless of where it came from, you need to save your star trek adventures for the movie makers and fakers. Just a thought.
Then your husband does not believe in GOD in any way, rather it is Egyptian or not because his philosophy is the same philosophy used by Atheist.

All of this is an assumption.
So you are saying the entire Dogon Cosmogony is a lie?

You don't even know that is.

Plus, I distinctively recally you saying previously, that "cosmogony" is another fancy word to disguise Polytheism.....

Must I provide the link to the thread in which you said this?

So now, you are using this word like you invented it.....How quaint.

The same way the Egyptian gods are depicted with human bodies and animal heads.
Do you believe that Being once existed?

LOL, so now Totemism is supposed to be taken literally? Wow, it never ends with you, does it?


Then your husband does not believe in GOD in any way, rather it is Egyptian or not because his philosophy is the same philosophy used by Atheist.

Wow, how blatantly disrespectful.....To speak ill and assumptive of someone you don't even know. *shakes head*

if you are willing to sidestep the laws of physics and simple logic you are free to believe anything at all.
how valid are those beliefs? i do not accept anything that asks me to shut my mind down and forget all the laws of nature.
when people display total ignorance of the laws of physics it makes it impossible for me to take what they say as anything more than faerie tales.
anyone can make up anything.

On one hand you are debating "cultural and/or spiritual belief systems" then on the other you are speaking of the "laws of physics".

Are you familiar with the term "meta-physical" or the concept of "mind over matter"?

So I speak nothing concerning suggesting one "forget all the laws of nature" however my PERCEPTION is of life existant in the etheric, astral and spiritual planes rather than being limited to the PHYSICAL plane...

have a nice day..

PEACE BROTHER OMO:



Not doubting your perspective, but how did you come to this understanding?

Because it's my understanding, that at least a good 90% of T.H.E.M.'s doctrine was/is based on metaphysics. How/why then is this aspect not counted amongst it?

PEACE


Brother Icame to this "understanding" from being ingrained with the Messenger's Teachings from a very early age and the only book that has been in my posession for over 40 of my 48 years is "Message to the Blackman" which I have read thoroughly from cover to cover so much that the cover has come apart.

I agree that "a good 90% of T.H.E.M.'s doctrine was/is based on metaphysics. But it is the remaining % which is at the core of the teachings which does speak to a deeply rooted KNOWLEDGE concerning the "Asiatic Black Man" and his true origins....

For example...when I stated earlier concerning looking more closely at the "Out of Africa" HYPOTHESIS and the possibility of earlier origin from "lost continenets" it leads to recognizing "theories" also concerning GONDWANALAND and LAURASIA and the "earth" at one time being one land mass.....

and the Messenger gave an explanation as to how that land mass became divided.

The choice here is to either accept His explanation, or rely on the HYPOTHESIS or European scholarship,because all of the earlier Black/African "historians" have relied on the work of white "Egyptologists" and "cultural anthropology"

Brother Icame to this "understanding" from being ingrained with the Messenger's Teachings from a very early age and the only book that has been in my posession for over 40 of my 48 years is "Message to the Blackman" which I have read thoroughly from cover to cover so much that the cover has come apart.

Then you and I have a very similiar philosophical background.

I agree that "a good 90% of T.H.E.M.'s doctrine was/is based on metaphysics. But it is the remaining % which is at the core of the teachings which does speak to a deeply rooted KNOWLEDGE concerning the "Asiatic Black Man" and his true origins....

Yes, but even those explanations are rooted within metaphysics. For example:

For example...when I stated earlier concerning looking more closely at the "Out of Africa" HYPOTHESIS and the possibility of earlier origin from "lost continenets" it leads to recognizing "theories" also concerning GONDWANALAND and LAURASIA and the "earth" at one time being one land mass.....

and the Messenger gave an explanation as to how that land mass became divided.

Yes, that the Original man launched the moon from the earth, yes? I see this explanation as a purely metaphysical one. How do you see it?

The choice here is to either accept His explanation, or rely on the HYPOTHESIS or European scholarship,because all of the earlier Black/African "historians" have relied on the work of white "Egyptologists" and "cultural anthropology"

I don't think it's as "black and white" (no pun intended) as that. While I accept his explanation, I don't see how that explanation is rooted in physics, but instead metaphysics.

And you're right, I don't see the ideas of white "scholars" as an option at all.

PEACE

You don't even know that is.

Plus, I distinctively recally you saying previously, that "cosmogony" is another fancy word to disguise Polytheism.....

Must I provide the link to the thread in which you said this?

So now, you are using this word like you invented it.....How quaint.



LOL, so now Totemism is supposed to be taken literally? Wow, it never ends with you, does it?




Wow, how blatantly disrespectful.....To speak ill and assumptive of someone you don't even know. *shakes head*
http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=445782&postcount=119

earth is the only planet that humans are compatible with.
our biology is not compatible with the other planets in this solar system.
we could live no where else.

how then can a being from another star be compatible with earth biology? our air and water would poison them.
how could they even exist here let alone teach us and breed with us?

if none of these questions are addressed your religion is not based in objective reality.
So James:

Do you believe the images of the Egyptian gods with Human bodies and Animal heads were once living and breathing Beings?

Do you believe the images of the Egyptian gods with Human bodies and Animal heads were once living and breathing Beings?
no, i do not.

You are right, my husband does not "believe in God". He also informed me that anytime you say "you believe", what you're really saying is "you don't know". As such, he does not "believe in God"...he knows God/Goddess personally and intimately. You are searching to understand and comprehend philosophies and concepts that he already knows and uses to manifest what you are searching to understand. You all the same are entitled to your "beliefs", and as soon as you begin "knowing", you will stop believing or having to believe.

my PERCEPTION is of life existant in the etheric, astral and spiritual planes rather than being limited to the PHYSICAL plane.....
do you believe that the astral plane can be used as a means of interstellar transport?

So you are saying the entire Dogon Cosmogony is a lie?

i am surely not going to base my life on what some dogon thinks.

The same way the Egyptian gods are depicted with human bodies and animal heads.
Do you believe that Being once existed?
do you believe this being exists?
i made her on my computer.

Originally Posted by Music Producer
So you are saying the entire Dogon Cosmogony is a lie?

i am surely not going to base my life on what some dogon thinks.

That is odd because Kemet cosmology, theology or what ever you want to call it is a derivative of Dogon cosmogony.

What are the odds of Sirius being the Throne of Isis?
What are the odds of Anubis being a Dog Star and several other references used by the Dogon to describe the Dark Planet the orbits Sirius A?

What are the odd that this same planet being referred to as the Bow Star?

Kemet Theology is a derivative of Dogon Theology but yet when you are shown this basic fact you rebel, why?

Didn’t you ask the question of, “Where did the Egyptian get this from”, before you decided to become a devout spiritualist and Elder of Metu Neter?

Seems to me an Elder would be aware of the Dogon.

In Libya there are also ancient rock drawings of figures (Aliens) with human bodies and animal heads.

All of these images were created by ancient Africans…………..
http://www.fire-serpent.com/post/sekhmet.jpg
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/wadjet1.jpg
http://www.fire-serpent.com/post/nile.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.atlastours.net/iraq/terracotta_figurine.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.atlastours.net/iraq/ur.html&h=400&w=273&sz=11&hl=en&start=5&tbnid=AmmwL1EiUM6wqM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=85&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmother%2Bfigurine%2Bgoddess%26svnum%3 D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

Notice the Golden Fleece of the ram in the last web page…………
This was an Egyptian and Greek mythology that can be found in Dogon ATR.

But know since all of this information is coming out you seem to be loosing faith, why?

you seem to be loosing faith
you seem to be losing touch with reality.
i have never had any faith to lose.
i deal in knowledge.

you seem to be losing touch with reality.
i have never had any faith to lose.
i deal in knowledge.

Precisely.

Trying to astronomize a metaphysical theology is perposterous.....However not apparently above this individual.

PEACE

Then you and I have a very similiar philosophical background.



Yes, but even those explanations are rooted within metaphysics. For example:



Yes, that the Original man launched the moon from the earth, yes? I see this explanation as a purely metaphysical one. How do you see it?



I don't think it's as "black and white" (no pun intended) as that. While I accept his explanation, I don't see how that explanation is rooted in physics, but instead metaphysics.

And you're right, I don't see the ideas of white "scholars" as an option at all.



PEACE

"While I accept his explanation, I don't see how that explanation is rooted in physics, but instead metaphysics."

Agreed and I believe that I said as much. I clearly do not have a belief, perspective or perception rooted in the "physical" and neither did the ancient Elders of Kemet.

If one speaks of the "Anu-nakki" or "Ennead" or "Neteru" in a SPIRITUAL sense then their existence incorporates the other spheres/realms OTHER THAN THE STRICTLY PHYSICAL.

If one is restricted to "physical laws" how then does one reach a "state of Immortality"--"the continuity of self-awareness from one incarnation to another"

I believe it has been taught that this requires "stabilization of the emotional body".

Is the "emotional body" GOVERNED or RESTRICTED by the "physical" as relates to "Ausar Man"

I think not. Therefore, if that is what now is being taught then that is my departure with present-day "Khemetic" 'initiation system'

And let us remember...the Metu Neter is described as 'an effective guide to SELF-INITIATION'....and we all are at various stages of "self-awareness".

If the stage of Self-Awareness that I am at leads to to consider the validity of Belief systems outside of the "Kemetic" that is an indication of my stage of SELF-INITIATION!

This is why I have a tendency to state that in some instances I do not expect some folks to agree with me yet I continue to share my perspective based not on who and what I read or ascribe to but moreso based upon my state of spiritual and emotional development and consciousness TRANSCENDING the western concept of the "primacy of matter over mind".

The "physical laws" by which the Hu-Man body is "governed" is Level One.

However, the "Shat Am Tuat" is the Hidden Subconscious within and is not bound to physical law.

IT IS TRANSFORMED FROM UNDIFFERENTIATED SUBJECTIVE TO OBJECTIVE BEING.

Thus, the Conscious Being becomes a "myriad of foms and aspects"

Obviously, not all of these forms are governed or restricted by "physical law" but actually an Enlighted Being in the Ausar state has perfected the ability to CHANGE AND GOVERN AND CONTROL "physical law"...thus transcending the PHYSICAL realm.

Peace!

Precisely.

Trying to astronomize a metaphysical theology is perposterous.....However not apparently above this individual.

PEACE

Brother Samurai,

I hear you but isnt this exactly what the "Sumerians" and "Egyptians" did?

Has not "Osiris" been equated with Sirius and "Isis" with Sothis?

What is the correlation with the Temple of Denderah and the "Zodiac" and the system of equating Star systems with "Neteru"?

Central to this ancient knowledge was information concerning the Sirian system especially in regards to what is known as "Sirius C"

Astronomy has proven its existence but how could the Dogon have accurately described not only its exact proportion to other Stars within the complex but also explain its "Mystery" ( I explained part of this in a thread dealing with Akhenaten and the Sirius Mystery)....with the "naked eye"??

I agree with you on some points and brother Music Producer on others. However, I am not restricted to any particular concept, ideology or "faith".

I really have a difficult time relegating as "literal" or "metaphysical" ancient beliefs that folks believed were actual PHYSICAL manifestations which they knew INFLUENCED them or were part of their "creation" in HU-Man form!

When I look at the stories concerning Elijah and Enoch, for example, it is clear that they were believed to have been TAKEN and Jesus (Yeshua) stating He was"in this world but not of it" is not mere allegory.

"While I accept his explanation, I don't see how that explanation is rooted in physics, but instead metaphysics."

Agreed and I believe that I said as much. I clearly do not have a belief, perspective or perception rooted in the "physical" and neither did the ancient Elders of Kemet.

Agreed. However, that's not necessarily to negate the physical, either. Sometimes, one's perception is beyond the average, and as such, that person's perception allows for them to perceive universal laws that are not readily fathomable to the naked eye. You mention the Elders of Kemet; that is why I think that modern man has yet to comprehend how the Benu-Benu were built.


If one speaks of the "Anu-nakki" or "Ennead" or "Neteru" in a SPIRITUAL sense then their existence incorporates the other spheres/realms OTHER THAN THE STRICTLY PHYSICAL.

Agreed. That, I surmise, is the issue that many of our Brothers and Sisters here are having in the newly formed Spiritual Study section of this site: attempting to view these concepts through a strictly physical POV, not only fails to grasp the very concept being sought after, but also does this concept an injustice.

If one is restricted to "physical laws" how then does one reach a "state of Immortality"--"the continuity of self-awareness from one incarnation to another"

I'm glad you are amongst the very few that have an understanding of what Immortality actually is. It's a falsehood, that immortality means living forever in one body.

That's not immortality, that's purgatory. Only a fool would want that; but then, that is what the White man is seeking.

Reincarnation is the essence of Immortality.

I believe it has been taught that this requires "stabilization of the emotional body".

Is the "emotional body" GOVERNED or RESTRICTED by the "physical" as relates to "Ausar Man"

I think not. Therefore, if that is what now is being taught then that is my departure with present-day "Khemetic" 'initiation system'

Then, it's good to know that you'll be staying :)

It is taught that the emotional body (lower self) is not supposed to govern the physical body. It's not supposed to govern anything--not even itself. It is supposed to be governed by the Higher Self.


And let us remember...the Metu Neter is described as 'an effective guide to SELF-INITIATION'....and we all are at various stages of "self-awareness".

If the stage of Self-Awareness that I am at leads to to consider the validity of Belief systems outside of the "Kemetic" that is an indication of my stage of SELF-INITIATION!

Agreed.

This is why I have a tendency to state that in some instances I do not expect some folks to agree with me yet I continue to share my perspective based not on who and what I read or ascribe to but moreso based upon my state of spiritual and emotional development and consciousness TRANSCENDING the western concept of the "primacy of matter over mind".

The "physical laws" by which the Hu-Man body is "governed" is Level One.

However, the "Shat Am Tuat" is the Hidden Subconscious within and is not bound to physical law.

IT IS TRANSFORMED FROM UNDIFFERENTIATED SUBJECTIVE TO OBJECTIVE BEING.

Thus, the Conscious Being becomes a "myriad of foms and aspects"

Obviously, not all of these forms are governed or restricted by "physical law" but actually an Enlighted Being in the Ausar state has perfected the ability to CHANGE AND GOVERN AND CONTROL "physical law"...thus transcending the PHYSICAL realm.

Peace!

There is nothing that I can say to all this, except "True indeed".

I am grateful for your elucidation on this matter, and I share your sentiment whole-heartedly.

PEACE

Obviously, not all of these forms are governed or restricted by "physical law" but actually an Enlighted Being in the Ausar state has perfected the ability to CHANGE AND GOVERN AND CONTROL "physical law"...thus transcending the PHYSICAL realm.
explain the difference between someone who is not bound by physical law and someone who is insane.

(jamesfrmphilly) - explain the difference between someone who is not bound by physical law and someone who is insane.

the difference is in your level of understanding of the laws of nature. everything is bound by the same laws. are these laws accurately represented by a physics text book; or is today's physics only a subset of the laws?

more importantly, things like wormholes can connect huge distances in space; the problem is in generating them and keeping them open. and what it means to pass through. so even from a purely western physical standpoint, your concerns are potentially solveable.

Brother Samurai,

I hear you but isnt this exactly what the "Sumerians" and "Egyptians" did?

Has not "Osiris" been equated with Sirius and "Isis" with Sothis?

What is the correlation with the Temple of Denderah and the "Zodiac" and the system of equating Star systems with "Neteru"?

Central to this ancient knowledge was information concerning the Sirian system especially in regards to what is known as "Sirius C"

Astronomy has proven its existence but how could the Dogon have accurately described not only its exact proportion to other Stars within the complex but also explain its "Mystery" ( I explained part of this in a thread dealing with Akhenaten and the Sirius Mystery)....with the "naked eye"??

I agree with you on some points and brother Music Producer on others. However, I am not restricted to any particular concept, ideology or "faith".

I really have a difficult time relegating as "literal" or "metaphysical" ancient beliefs that folks believed were actual PHYSICAL manifestations which they knew INFLUENCED them or were part of their "creation" in HU-Man form!

When I look at the stories concerning Elijah and Enoch, for example, it is clear that they were believed to have been TAKEN and Jesus (Yeshua) stating He was"in this world but not of it" is not mere allegory.

Allow me to clarify my perspective.

Universal Cosmology is indeed common within our Ancestors' theologies. The idea of studying the universe around us/them is most certainly a significant aspect of spiritual development, but not necessarily an integral one.

By this, I mean that since the base goal of Spiritual development is to enchance the ability to perceive, it should be understood that perception begins.....And even ends, from within. To perceive the Eternal Within, is also to perceive the Eternal Without.

Thus, when we hear a tribe as "primative" as the DOGON having spoken about the Sirian galaxy some several thousand years ago, without the assistance of complex astronomical equipment, this should speak more to their internal development. Same with the Kemetians, Sumerians, and others.

This knowledge is the result of their development, not vice versa, as some people (Music Producer here, and the white "scholars" that he likes to quote from) would like to insist.

More to the point, it's the idea that NOMMO, ANPU (Anubis) and similar concepts that exsist purely within a metaphysical (and more importantly, a metaphorical) form, are some "creatures from outer space" or some such non-sense, is what I was attempting to address.

Please understand, it's not that I don't think that aliens and other beings don't exsist. It's just that I don't know that they exsist. And, until such a knowledge (whether intuitive or empirical) manifests within my sphere of influence, then there is no reason to surmise upon this notion. To do so brings this into the realm of 'Belief", something I've no interest in.

Further, this conjecture about aliens does nothing to further my spiritual development, which was/is the purpose for the Initiation Systems created and given to us by our Elder Ancestors to begin with. To add concepts that had nothing to do with this, is to further do our Ancestors a greater disservice.

Does having a knowledge of the Klingons increase my spiritual development? If so, how so? If not, then we'd be better served keeping the Klingons on Star Trek, Star Wars, X-Files, and other related genres of entertainment.

In the meantime, to do otherwise (claiming that Reptilian Men created humanity, and were responsible for civilization on this planet, etc) only cheapens the legacy that Black people (in all actuality) were responsible for.

Occum's Razor states that "all things being equal, the simplest explanation tends to be the truest".

Which is the simplest explanation: that Black people built the pyramids, or that Mork from Ork did it?

PEACE

(jamesfrmphilly) - explain the difference between someone who is not bound by physical law and someone who is insane.

the difference is in your level of understanding of the laws of nature. everything is bound by the same laws. are these laws accurately represented by a physics text book; or is today's physics only a subset of the laws?

Very true, and this is a point that I sought to establish in my recent post.

PEACE

your concerns are potentially solveable.
not if they are ignored. setting aside physical law allows one the freedom to believe absolutely anything. what then is the standard? how do you detect the charlatans?

(SAMURAI36) - Thus, when we hear a tribe as "primative" as the DOGON having spoken about the Sirian galaxy some several thousand years ago, without the assistance of complex astronomical equipment, this should speak more to their internal development. Same with the Kemetians, Sumerians, and others.

This knowledge is the result of their development, not vice versa, as some people (Music Producer here, and the white "scholars" that he likes to quote from) would like to insist.

this is a brilliant point. in the book "the third eye"; tibetan buddhist monks are using astral travel to explore underground caves.
why are they exploring these caves?
who knows? maybe they are looking for buried treasure...but...if multiple people are using astral projection to explore caves...they can compare notes. they can hone their skill and perception abilities based on what others have seen.

thus, it's completely possible that the dogon leveraged spiritual travel to both explore these star systems, and possibly they communicated with aliens and shared information on a higher level of spiritual consciousness.

(jamesfrmphilly) - not if they are ignored. setting aside physical law allows one the freedom to believe absolutely anything. what then is the standard? how do you detect the charlatans?

the same way as with western physics. proof. the problem with spiritual development has always been that it's an individual path and typically an individual experience. thus, you can only describe steps to reproduce a particular spiritual experience...and others can try to discover something similar. but ultimately the proof is in the pudding. or not.

(SAMURAI36) - Thus, when we hear a tribe as "primative" as the DOGON having spoken about the Sirian galaxy some several thousand years ago, without the assistance of complex astronomical equipment, this should speak more to their internal development. Same with the Kemetians, Sumerians, and others.

This knowledge is the result of their development, not vice versa, as some people (Music Producer here, and the white "scholars" that he likes to quote from) would like to insist.

this is a brilliant point. in the book "the third eye"; tibetan buddhist monks are using astral travel to explore underground caves.
why are they exploring these caves?
who knows? maybe they are looking for buried treasure...but...if multiple people are using astral projection to explore caves...they can compare notes. they can hone their skill and perception abilities based on what others have seen.

thus, it's completely possible that the dogon leveraged spiritual travel to both explore these star systems, and possibly they communicated with aliens and shared information on a higher level of spiritual consciousness.

Agreed. But let's not confuse the cause with the effect.

And, in the meantime, concepts as TOTEMISM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totemism#Totemism) continue to, as the always have, be a primary aspect of Cosmology.

To objectify Dog-Headed men such as ANUBIS and the TRICKSTER (of Native American lore) is to step into the realm of fairy tale....Thus we are no better than those who believe that a Bunny will deliver eggs on the last Sunday of April, or that a winged white woman will come and give us money when our teeth fall out.

And, in the meantime, the cosmological relevance of Anubis and the Trickster continues to be missed.

I can't speak on what the Dogon saw in their travels, until I travel there myself. I just don't want to see these systems get re-translated into Spook-Godism.

PEACE

(jamesfrmphilly) - not if they are ignored. setting aside physical law allows one the freedom to believe absolutely anything. what then is the standard? how do you detect the charlatans?

the same way as with western physics. proof. the problem with spiritual development has always been that it's an individual path and typically an individual experience. thus, you can only describe steps to reproduce a particular spiritual experience...and others can try to discover something similar. but ultimately the proof is in the pudding. or not.

It must be understood, that spirituality, though indeed typically individualistic, is still a science.

In times past, I've compared one's spiritual development, to developing one's body by diet and exercise.

While both are individualistic in nature and practice, the results, while indeed varied from person to person, are no less noticable by others.

PEACE

Agreed. However, that's not necessarily to negate the physical, either. Sometimes, one's perception is beyond the average, and as such, that person's perception allows for them to perceive universal laws that are not readily fathomable to the naked eye. You mention the Elders of Kemet; that is why I think that modern man has yet to comprehend how the Benu-Benu were built.




Agreed. That, I surmise, is the issue that many of our Brothers and Sisters here are having in the newly formed Spiritual Study section of this site: attempting to view these concepts through a strictly physical POV, not only fails to grasp the very concept being sought after, but also does this concept an injustice.



I'm glad you are amongst the very few that have an understanding of what Immortality actually is. It's a falsehood, that immortality means living forever in one body.

That's not immortality, that's purgatory. Only a fool would want that; but then, that is what the White man is seeking.

Reincarnation is the essence of Immortality.



Then, it's good to know that you'll be staying :)

It is taught that the emotional body (lower self) is not supposed to govern the physical body. It's not supposed to govern anything--not even itself. It is supposed to be governed by the Higher Self.




Agreed.



There is nothing that I can say to all this, except "True indeed".

I am grateful for your elucidation on this matter, and I share your sentiment whole-heartedly.

PEACE

Brother Samurai,

This thread has already gotten far off topic so I will rest my argument since, for the most part, I think that at the AB of the matter we are mostly in agreement.

I will say this though. At no point did I "NEGATE the Physical".

However, I have a different take on how I have been trained to think and to teach within the "western" system of education. Therefore, I do NOT believe in the "primacy of Matter" (i.e. the Physical form) over the "Spiritual" or "Mental" in the PERFECTED STATE. No amount of discourse on this will change or alter my perspective because it has become INTERNALIZED through my process of Self-Realization and Self-Actualization. This is why I no longer believe in the concept of "white supremacy" as if I, in a Spiritual sense, am "controlled" or dominated by "the White man" (i.e. SEBEK Man, Sethites, etc.)

And brother Samurai, if I may, if I actually am "amongst the few that have an understanding of what Immortality actually is" it's because not only have I studied for years the "Metu Neter" but have internalized it as well and am the LIVING WORD, that is to so "Maa Kheru" (in relative terms). I am not perfect but at least have a fraction of the Supreme Knowledge and Wisdom needed in order to embark upon an Enlightened Path when MOST "Africans" at least appear to be floundering in spiritual darkness (or whiteness).

Again, this speaks to the level of SELF-INITIATION in which I have obtained trying to release myself from this Physical form and karmic bondage.

Peace...

Allow me to clarify my perspective.

Universal Cosmology is indeed common within our Ancestors' theologies. The idea of studying the universe around us/them is most certainly a significant aspect of spiritual development, but not necessarily an integral one.

By this, I mean that since the base goal of Spiritual development is to enchance the ability to perceive, it should be understood that perception begins.....And even ends, from within. To perceive the Eternal Within, is also to perceive the Eternal Without.

Thus, when we hear a tribe as "primative" as the DOGON having spoken about the Sirian galaxy some several thousand years ago, without the assistance of complex astronomical equipment, this should speak more to their internal development. Same with the Kemetians, Sumerians, and others.

This knowledge is the result of their development, not vice versa, as some people (Music Producer here, and the white "scholars" that he likes to quote from) would like to insist.

More to the point, it's the idea that NOMMO, ANPU (Anubis) and similar concepts that exsist purely within a metaphysical (and more importantly, a metaphorical) form, are some "creatures from outer space" or some such non-sense, is what I was attempting to address.

Please understand, it's not that I don't think that aliens and other beings don't exsist. It's just that I don't know that they exsist. And, until such a knowledge (whether intuitive or empirical) manifests within my sphere of influence, then there is no reason to surmise upon this notion. To do so brings this into the realm of 'Belief", something I've no interest in.

Further, this conjecture about aliens does nothing to further my spiritual development, which was/is the purpose for the Initiation Systems created and given to us by our Elder Ancestors to begin with. To add concepts that had nothing to do with this, is to further do our Ancestors a greater disservice.

Does having a knowledge of the Klingons increase my spiritual development? If so, how so? If not, then we'd be better served keeping the Klingons on Star Trek, Star Wars, X-Files, and other related genres of entertainment.

In the meantime, to do otherwise (claiming that Reptilian Men created humanity, and were responsible for civilization on this planet, etc) only cheapens the legacy that Black people (in all actuality) were responsible for.

Occum's Razor states that "all things being equal, the simplest explanation tends to be the truest".

Which is the simplest explanation: that Black people built the pyramids, or that Mork from Ork did it?

PEACE

Brother Samurai,

I gotcha!

You make an excellent point which I can not argue against because to do so would contradict what I myself KNOW!

"And, until such a knowledge (whether intuitive or empirical) manifests within my sphere of influence, then there is no reason to surmise upon this notion."

Now I could argue against this based upon a Biblical scripture related to depending upon one's own knowledge but again it would contradict my own personal belief to do so, which is why I rest.

I will say this though. Much of what I have read here in these threads, when speaking on "Metu Neter" seem to focus on one aspect of the "Neteru" which teds to describe them as "attributes of Nature" which are bound my natural (that is to say, physical) law, or as "Divine Aspects" of that Physical law.

However much this thinking (belief, "facts") is somehow related to the "doctrine of attributes of nature" it is not the SAME as the "doctrine of the origin of the world" nor is it the SAME as the "principles of being in the physical realm" which are called Causes. Nor is it the SAME as the doctrines concerning the existence of God (or Neteru).

The problem I am having is if all of these various doctrines are lumped together as ONE when they were taught as distinct and seperate doctrines within the ancient Initiation system. For example, in the study of Metaphysics there is actuality and potentiality. These are NOT one and the same, thus the PERFECTED state of Man (Ausar) is quite distinct from Man's potentiality.

Therefore, there is also a difference between Divine Form and Divine Essence, and "matter". "Matter", the material cause is the potentiality or capacity of existence. Form or Essence is the formal cause which gives actuality to existence.

Thus, when folks speak of "Neteru" or "Annunaki" or "Ennead" as LITERAL, then one can not argue at the same time that they are "scientific and physical attributes" as if these are one and the same. Why?

Because, "Final Cause is that for which everything exists. Everything has a purpose and that purpose is the final cause. A final cause always implies intelligence: but this is not always true in the case of EFFICIENT CAUSE"

Stolen Legacy, p 115.

Before the publication of the "Metu Neter" in 1994 I had long studied the works by George G.M. James and I tend to compare notes. One text speaks of the 7 oarts of the Soul, another speaks of 9 Parts.

Immortality is only ONE attribute of the Soul and the KHAT, Physical body, is only ONE of NINE PARTS.

Therefore, in all respect, Brother James' questions to me need no further reply because they only speak to the laws governing the physical body or the KHAT.

In time I shall, in another forum, deal with what I see as the missing "links" here. I have carefully, for months and years studied and followed these so-called "Metu Neter" proponants and this is where I agree with Brother Music Producer that some of the statements presented are not only "plagarized" but "misrepresentations" of what historically has been described as MEMPHITE THEOLOGY.

And quite frankly, as the center of worship moved from Memphis to Thebes let's just say things either got destroyed or "lost in translation".

And that conclusion, my Brother, is what manifests within MY "sphere of influence!

hetep!

not if they are ignored. setting aside physical law allows one the freedom to believe absolutely anything. what then is the standard? how do you detect the charlatans?

There is no one "standard" and who are you to determine who is a "charlatan"?

The "concrete body" (KHAT) is one attribute of "Man" but not the entirety of one's existence.

For you to continue further argues against what you yourself claim to profess as many of my statements have been EXACT "word for word" statements as written in the "Metu Neter"!

The more you speak, the more you expose yourself!

Now, in this "aspect" you have proven to be exactly that which you intend to detect!

For example, outside, or within the Metu Neter, have you extensive knowledge concerning the "42 Books of Hermes" and the difference between the Hierogrammat, the Horoscopus and the Stolistes and the Pastophori?

What are the other aspects of the Ogdoad relative to Amun and Amaunet?

What has been presented as ONE 'supreme" Neteru is only part of a Union of Eight aspects. What are the 10 Principles contained within the "Primevial Chaos" and what does PTAH represent?

You want to ask me elementary questions concerning "physics" in light of "metaphysical" context with no true understanding of either...

If you are bound to this "physical" realm does that mean that the Divine Intelligence itself is bound to this ONE "Solar System"....???

If this is what you are proposing then who really is the "charlatan"

???

Brother Samurai,

I gotcha!

You make an excellent point which I can not argue against because to do so would contradict what I myself KNOW!

"And, until such a knowledge (whether intuitive or empirical) manifests within my sphere of influence, then there is no reason to surmise upon this notion."

Now I could argue against this based upon a Biblical scripture related to depending upon one's own knowledge but again it would contradict my own personal belief to do so, which is why I rest.

Understood.

I will say this though. Much of what I have read here in these threads, when speaking on "Metu Neter" seem to focus on one aspect of the "Neteru" which teds to describe them as "attributes of Nature" which are bound my natural (that is to say, physical) law, or as "Divine Aspects" of that Physical law.

However much this thinking (belief, "facts") is somehow related to the "doctrine of attributes of nature" it is not the SAME as the "doctrine of the origin of the world" nor is it the SAME as the "principles of being in the physical realm" which are called Causes. Nor is it the SAME as the doctrines concerning the existence of God (or Neteru).

The problem I am having is if all of these various doctrines are lumped together as ONE when they were taught as distinct and seperate doctrines within the ancient Initiation system. For example, in the study of Metaphysics there is actuality and potentiality. These are NOT one and the same, thus the PERFECTED state of Man (Ausar) is quite distinct from Man's potentiality.

Therefore, there is also a difference between Divine Form and Divine Essence, and "matter". "Matter", the material cause is the potentiality or capacity of existence. Form or Essence is the formal cause which gives actuality to existence.

Thus, when folks speak of "Neteru" or "Annunaki" or "Ennead" as LITERAL, then one can not argue at the same time that they are "scientific and physical attributes" as if these are one and the same. Why?

Because, "Final Cause is that for which everything exists. Everything has a purpose and that purpose is the final cause. A final cause always implies intelligence: but this is not always true in the case of EFFICIENT CAUSE"

Stolen Legacy, p 115.

Before the publication of the "Metu Neter" in 1994 I had long studied the works by George G.M. James and I tend to compare notes. One text speaks of the 7 oarts of the Soul, another speaks of 9 Parts.

Immortality is only ONE attribute of the Soul and the KHAT, Physical body, is only ONE of NINE PARTS.

If I am reading your grievance correctly, I would dare say that all of this, in its entirety is very academically covered within the pages of METU NETER (the book).

Further, regarding your mentioning of science:

That is a word that has been sorely misconstrued, throughout the ages.

Allow me to demonstrate:

It is actually a falsehood that the term "science" cannot be applied to the Ethereal realm, as well as the Corporeal.

As I'm sure you know, often times a word is taken away from the meaning that was derived by its origin (etymology) and given a new defintion (neologism).

As an english major, and a person who pursues semantics as a personal academic venture, I've found that much of human language proper is a battle between etymology and definition--many times both aspects contradicting one another.

We see here:

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/science.html

In which the definition(s) are clearly stated--much of which match what we might think this term means, and thus contradicting our spiritual discussion.

However, when you scroll down, and examine the eytmology of the term:

[14th century. Via French < Latin scientia < scient-, present participle of scire "know, discern" < Indo-European, "cut"]

We see that the etymology contradicts at least some aspects of the current definition.

I've argued in other places on this site, that language facilitates intellect. I "believe" that it is a conscious plan, on the part of TPTB to steer us into an almost anti-spiritual mindset, with the methodology of what the call "science".

We know that the Kemetians themselves were a very academic people--even scientific, by modern interpretations of the word.

They were architects, surgeons, botanists, astronomers, etc etc. All these are practices that require far more than just "dabbling in the metaphysical", or chanting and meditating and what-not.

In addition to this, they also understood the purpose and function of both hemispheres of the brain: the left for concrete, logical functions, and the right for abstract, intuitive ones.

Thus, since perception (UAT'CHET) determines spiritual ascension, then it should very well be understood that this should encompass the notions of logical reasoning (SOBEK) in addition to intuitive reasoning (TEHUTI)

Again, this is demonstrated within Metu Neter.

Therefore, in all respect, Brother James' questions to me need no further reply because they only speak to the laws governing the physical body or the KHAT.

The issue with this, is that the realm of NETER empasses the Objective Realm as well as the Subjective. Neter is BOTH realms, and any laws that Neter (MA'AT, in this instance) creates, applies to both realms.

In time I shall, in another forum, deal with what I see as the missing "links" here. I have carefully, for months and years studied and followed these so-called "Metu Neter" proponants and this is where I agree with Brother Music Producer that some of the statements presented are not only "plagarized" but "misrepresentations" of what historically has been described as MEMPHITE THEOLOGY.

I'd like to see evidence of such a plagarism......In the meantime, how much of an academic investment have you actually given to the book "Metu Neter"? Because much of what you say that you are in disagreement with, is actually validated within that book(s).

Also, much of what I have said, to which you stated to have no argument, stems from my understanding of this theology, as it has been presented from that and other related pieces of literature (among other places).

And quite frankly, as the center of worship moved from Memphis to Thebes let's just say things either got destroyed or "lost in translation".

And that conclusion, my Brother, is what manifests within MY "sphere of influence!

hetep!

Because things got destroyed and or lost, does not mean that the theology cannot be fathomed by what is present. Besides, as numerous scholars have indicated, from Diop on down to Amen, Metu Neter still thrives in Africa, in various forms and aspects.

HOTEPU

There is no one "standard" and who are you to determine who is a "charlatan"?

The "concrete body" (KHAT) is one attribute of "Man" but not the entirety of one's existence.

For you to continue further argues against what you yourself claim to profess as many of my statements have been EXACT "word for word" statements as written in the "Metu Neter"!

The more you speak, the more you expose yourself!

Now, in this "aspect" you have proven to be exactly that which you intend to detect!

For example, outside, or within the Metu Neter, have you extensive knowledge concerning the "42 Books of Hermes" and the difference between the Hierogrammat, the Horoscopus and the Stolistes and the Pastophori?

What are the other aspects of the Ogdoad relative to Amun and Amaunet?

What has been presented as ONE 'supreme" Neteru is only part of a Union of Eight aspects. What are the 10 Principles contained within the "Primevial Chaos" and what does PTAH represent?

You want to ask me elementary questions concerning "physics" in light of "metaphysical" context with no true understanding of either...

If you are bound to this "physical" realm does that mean that the Divine Intelligence itself is bound to this ONE "Solar System"....???

If this is what you are proposing then who really is the "charlatan"

???
what i get from all of this is that there is no standard and anything is anything to you. you seem greatly resentful that i would even open my mouth.
in a world where there are no boundaries you can weave any fantasy that you like. enjoy.

what i get from all of this is that there is no standard and anything is anything to you. you seem greatly resentful that i would even open my mouth.
in a world where there are no boundaries you can weave any fantasy that you like. enjoy.

Again, you digress yet to the personal.

Quote:

"what i get from all of this is that there is no standard and anything is anything to you."

At no point have I ever stated or indicated that "anything is anything". I clearly have stated there is difference between--fact and fiction, matter and spirit, physical attributes and mental attributes.

How does this equate with "anything is anything"

???

As far as my alledged "you seem greatly resentful that I would even open my mouth", well this is a written and published medium and not a verbal one so what are you SAYING for me to be resentful about?

Have you recently AUTHORED any forums or threads in which I have indicated an inclination to "seem greatly resentful"

???

Yet, when ever I do, which has become a rare occasion to author a post, who is it that usually is the first one to CONTEND with my posts,

hmm...???

Quote:

"in a world where there are no boundaries you can weave any fantasy that you like"

Fantasy?

I have basically raised questions and statements regarding what is contained in the following;


The Message to the Blackman by Hon. Elijah Muhammad
The Enuma Elish
The Lost Book of Enki
The Metu Neter
The Book of Coming Forth by Day
Origins of African Civilization by Cheikh anta Diop
Stolen Legacy by George G.M. James
The Supreme Wisdom by Master Fard Muhammad
The Sirius Mystery
Mayan Cosmogenesis
Bhagavad Gita

and a few web sources...

where exactly is the "fantasy" in all this and what ScHOLARLY MATERIAL HAVE YOU PUBLISHED TO CORRECT OR REFUTE ANY OF WHAT HAS BEEN STATED FROM THESE TEXTS...

???

Understood.



If I am reading your grievance correctly, I would dare say that all of this, in its entirety is very academically covered within the pages of METU NETER (the book).

Further, regarding your mentioning of science:

That is a word that has been sorely misconstrued, throughout the ages.

Allow me to demonstrate:

It is actually a falsehood that the term "science" cannot be applied to the Ethereal realm, as well as the Corporeal.

As I'm sure you know, often times a word is taken away from the meaning that was derived by its origin (etymology) and given a new defintion (neologism).

As an english major, and a person who pursues semantics as a personal academic venture, I've found that much of human language proper is a battle between etymology and definition--many times both aspects contradicting one another.

We see here:

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/science.html

In which the definition(s) are clearly stated--much of which match what we might think this term means, and thus contradicting our spiritual discussion.

However, when you scroll down, and examine the eytmology of the term:

[14th century. Via French < Latin scientia < scient-, present participle of scire "know, discern" < Indo-European, "cut"]

We see that the etymology contradicts at least some aspects of the current definition.

I've argued in other places on this site, that language facilitates intellect. I "believe" that it is a conscious plan, on the part of TPTB to steer us into an almost anti-spiritual mindset, with the methodology of what the call "science".

We know that the Kemetians themselves were a very academic people--even scientific, by modern interpretations of the word.

They were architects, surgeons, botanists, astronomers, etc etc. All these are practices that require far more than just "dabbling in the metaphysical", or chanting and meditating and what-not.

In addition to this, they also understood the purpose and function of both hemispheres of the brain: the left for concrete, logical functions, and the right for abstract, intuitive ones.

Thus, since perception (UAT'CHET) determines spiritual ascension, then it should very well be understood that this should encompass the notions of logical reasoning (SOBEK) in addition to intuitive reasoning (TEHUTI)

Again, this is demonstrated within Metu Neter.



The issue with this, is that the realm of NETER empasses the Objective Realm as well as the Subjective. Neter is BOTH realms, and any laws that Neter (MA'AT, in this instance) creates, applies to both realms.



I'd like to see evidence of such a plagarism......In the meantime, how much of an academic investment have you actually given to the book "Metu Neter"? Because much of what you say that you are in disagreement with, is actually validated within that book(s).

Also, much of what I have said, to which you stated to have no argument, stems from my understanding of this theology, as it has been presented from that and other related pieces of literature (among other places).



Because things got destroyed and or lost, does not mean that the theology cannot be fathomed by what is present. Besides, as numerous scholars have indicated, from Diop on down to Amen, Metu Neter still thrives in Africa, in various forms and aspects.

HOTEPU
I will only answer one question raised here as I do need to move on to a more constructive use of my time and energy

Quote:

"In the meantime, how much of an academic investment have you actually given to the book "Metu Neter"."

Probably more time that it deserves. This is why I have stated I am looking OUTSIDE of "Kemetic" "science" "philosophy" "belief" "factology", however you may define it.

I do not equate ALL AFRICANS as "Kemetic". Not from a geneaological standpoint and I spend a great deal more time in the process of writing (near publication) of my own family researh which is a project begun in 1988 and I am on the last of 3 volumes, working to finalize my rough drafts and seeking the funding to self-publish limited first additions for family members before seeking a publishing deal. I also have music compositions, songs and websites I am further developing so the more time I spend in reading one book as if it is the sole authority on all things "African" would not be productive considering the point that I am at in my own "Spiritual Enlightenment".

As a "book" the "Metu Neter" is ONE of a multiple number of source materials that i utilize and let me be clear on this....I DO NOT CONSIDER IT A PRIMARY SOURCE MATERIAL!

Peace..im out!

I have carefully, for months and years studied and followed these so-called "Metu Neter" proponants and this is where I agree with Brother Music Producer that some of the statements presented are not only "plagarized" but "misrepresentations" of what historically has been described as MEMPHITE THEOLOGY.
hummmmn.........

As a "book" the "Metu Neter" is ONE of a multiple number of source materials that i utilize and let me be clear on this....I DO NOT CONSIDER IT A PRIMARY SOURCE MATERIAL!
um, humnnnnn..........:thinking:

This is Keita Speaking


I will reiterate...The Hyksos were not from the continent of Africa !!! You can get all the support you think you need, it does not alter the facts. Furthermore, for the record: Ankhnaten and Moses are two different people with two different histories. Moses married an Ethiopian Princess...the sell out Ankhnaten married an Asian foreigner. Not only did he marry her, but it disrupted Kemet because he changed the direction of worship due to her. The two have two entirely different time periods and by the way...

The Bible is the white man's book !!! How is that, you may ask? Well let me leave you with this example;

You own a bike. I come to your porch and steal your bike. After I steal it, I take off your skinny tires and put the fat ones on there. I take off your little seat and put a banana seat on it. I then remove your horn and take off your ram handle bars and put butterfly handle bars on it. I then put a long sissy bar on the back and repaint the bike I stole. Now you can call it anyway you want to, but guess what? If you were to discover that I was the one who stole your bike and you came to my house to get it back...you would discover very quickly that the bike you came to get is not your bike anymore. The only thing I left of your bike that you can still call your own was the frame work.

That's your Bible that you want to cling to...just like the bike that ain't yours anymore!!! Go ahead, take it !! It will never serve you as it should, because every change I made became historical, cultural and spiritual controlling mechanisms in how it works or doesn't work. Just like your stolen bike...it will never feel, ride, maneaver or function the way yours did before I changed it. Why? Cause it isn't yours anymore !!! Get it through your head son !!
__________________

I will only answer one question raised here as I do need to move on to a more constructive use of my time and energy

Brother, I don't think I would be the only one who takes issue with this sort of statement.

We all choose to be here. Likewise, we can all choose not to be here, if such a decision suits us.

I have done this myself, on more than one occasion, and I'm sure a time will come when I will need to do so again.

However, if you honestly feel that building with us is not a constructive use of your time, then I would highly recommend that you find something that fits that criteria.

Quote:

"In the meantime, how much of an academic investment have you actually given to the book "Metu Neter"."

Probably more time that it deserves. This is why I have stated I am looking OUTSIDE of "Kemetic" "science" "philosophy" "belief" "factology", however you may define it.

Probably more of the first term, perhaps a little of the second, and the third is meaningless, and the fourth is not even a word. Just one of many "DR YORK-isms".

I do not equate ALL AFRICANS as "Kemetic". Not from a geneaological standpoint

Neither do I, nor has anyone here, NOR has anyone who publishes literature about Kemet and all things related made such a claim.

and I spend a great deal more time in the process of writing (near publication) of my own family researh which is a project begun in 1988 and I am on the last of 3 volumes, working to finalize my rough drafts and seeking the funding to self-publish limited first additions for family members before seeking a publishing deal. I also have music compositions, songs and websites I am further developing so the more time I spend in reading one book as if it is the sole authority on all things "African" would not be productive considering the point that I am at in my own "Spiritual Enlightenment".

As the Brother Elder stated, you do seem a bit emotional aroused--moreso than is needed.

You are creating arguments where there are none. No one has stated that any one book is the sole authority of anything. My question about that particular book had nothing to do with any such claim.

As a "book" the "Metu Neter" is ONE of a multiple number of source materials that i utilize and let me be clear on this....I DO NOT CONSIDER IT A PRIMARY SOURCE MATERIAL!

Peace..im out!

That's also fine, but it has nothing to do with the question I asked.....A question which, in lieu of your rather emotional response, you have yet to answer.

I suppose I could concede that I most likely will not receive and answer from you, and that's fine as well. I was simply curious, is all.

PEACE

This is Keita Speaking


I will reiterate...The Hyksos were not from the continent of Africa !!! You can get all the support you think you need, it does not alter the facts. Furthermore, for the record: Ankhnaten and Moses are two different people with two different histories. Moses married an Ethiopian Princess...the sell out Ankhnaten married an Asian foreigner. Not only did he marry her, but it disrupted Kemet because he changed the direction of worship due to her. The two have two entirely different time periods and by the way...

The Bible is the white man's book !!! How is that, you may ask? Well let me leave you with this example;

You own a bike. I come to your porch and steal your bike. After I steal it, I take off your skinny tires and put the fat ones on there. I take off your little seat and put a banana seat on it. I then remove your horn and take off your ram handle bars and put butterfly handle bars on it. I then put a long sissy bar on the back and repaint the bike I stole. Now you can call it anyway you want to, but guess what? If you were to discover that I was the one who stole your bike and you came to my house to get it back...you would discover very quickly that the bike you came to get is not your bike anymore. The only thing I left of your bike that you can still call your own was the frame work.

That's your Bible that you want to cling to...just like the bike that ain't yours anymore!!! Go ahead, take it !! It will never serve you as it should, because every change I made became historical, cultural and spiritual controlling mechanisms in how it works or doesn't work. Just like your stolen bike...it will never feel, ride, maneaver or function the way yours did before I changed it. Why? Cause it isn't yours anymore !!! Get it through your head son !!
__________________

the frame work

Which is the most important and required part of the bike and from that original frame I can rebuild my original bike.

Understand that this is only an attempt, without seeing the original glyphs used by the Egyptians we can have no absolute answer but develop a hypothesis on an understanding.

hikau khausut:
hk khst:

Wallis Budge page 468.
hi = to rise up, to ascend, to rear (of animals and serpents).

Page 1045
ka = a town in Egypt.

Page 144, (several meanings).
u = they, them, their.
u = district, estate, domain.

The closest word I found to mach “Khausut” is “Khaasut”, which was a town in Egypt. Page 1026.

With my own personal examination of the Egyptian reference to the Hyksos a translation can be made from pre-knowledge of what happened the Egyptians describing the Hyksos as a people.
Hi ka u Khausut

“To rise up from a town in Egypt, from a district of Khaasut / Khausut.”


If anyone would like to try his or her own interpretation of the Egyptian word “hikau khausut”, please fill free to do so and post it here. The more information we can gather on this, the better view of the Hyksos period we can gain.

This is Keita Speaking


I will reiterate...The Hyksos were not from the continent of Africa !!! You can get all the support you think you need, it does not alter the facts. Furthermore, for the record: Ankhnaten and Moses are two different people with two different histories. Moses married an Ethiopian Princess...the sell out Ankhnaten married an Asian foreigner. Not only did he marry her, but it disrupted Kemet because he changed the direction of worship due to her. The two have two entirely different time periods and by the way...

The Bible is the white man's book !!! How is that, you may ask? Well let me leave you with this example;

You own a bike. I come to your porch and steal your bike. After I steal it, I take off your skinny tires and put the fat ones on there. I take off your little seat and put a banana seat on it. I then remove your horn and take off your ram handle bars and put butterfly handle bars on it. I then put a long sissy bar on the back and repaint the bike I stole. Now you can call it anyway you want to, but guess what? If you were to discover that I was the one who stole your bike and you came to my house to get it back...you would discover very quickly that the bike you came to get is not your bike anymore. The only thing I left of your bike that you can still call your own was the frame work.

That's your Bible that you want to cling to...just like the bike that ain't yours anymore!!! Go ahead, take it !! It will never serve you as it should, because every change I made became historical, cultural and spiritual controlling mechanisms in how it works or doesn't work. Just like your stolen bike...it will never feel, ride, maneaver or function the way yours did before I changed it. Why? Cause it isn't yours anymore !!! Get it through your head son !!
__________________


Quote:

"Not only did he marry her, but it disrupted Kemet because he changed the direction of worship due to her."

This viewppoint is my basic point of disagreement here. I can concede to other points but not on this one. This is where I will act as "Akenatnen's advocate"!

What PRIMARY SOURCE materials establish this as fact?

What was the origin of Akenaten"s mother?

Did Akhenaten's father marry a woman of foreign origin?

Did Akhenaten's mother serve as co-regent during the early part of his reign?

Who was Ai (Ay) and was was his origin?

Five basic questions which may not be answered here but I believe that they are pertinent in relation to the "Hyksos" and their origin and role in ancient Kemet.

I created another thread where these questions can be dealt with.

Understand that this is only an attempt, without seeing the original glyphs used by the Egyptians we can have no absolute answer but develop a hypothesis on an understanding.

hikau khausut:
hk khst:

Wallis Budge page 468.
hi = to rise up, to ascend, to rear (of animals and serpents).

Page 1045
ka = a town in Egypt.

Page 144, (several meanings).
u = they, them, their.
u = district, estate, domain.

The closest word I found to mach “Khausut” is “Khaasut”, which was a town in Egypt. Page 1026.

With my own personal examination of the Egyptian reference to the Hyksos a translation can be made from pre-knowledge of what happened the Egyptians describing the Hyksos as a people.
Hi ka u Khausut

“To rise up from a town in Egypt, from a district of Khaasut / Khausut.”


If anyone would like to try his or her own interpretation of the Egyptian word “hikau khausut”, please fill free to do so and post it here. The more information we can gather on this, the better view of the Hyksos period we can gain.

What book are you referencing? Title and date of publication?

What book are you referencing? Title and date of publication?
E.A. Wallis Budge, “An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary” volumes 1 and 2.
ISBN 0-486-23615-3
ISBN 0-486-23616-1

E.A. Wallis Budge, “An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary” volumes 1 and 2.
ISBN 0-486-23615-3
ISBN 0-486-23616-1

Thank you!

I have a link to a documentary on the migratory patterns of the Africans who inhabited the Sahara when it was actually fertile land thousands of years before Dynastic Kemet. This shows a continuous African civilized presence from the Atlantic Ocean to the Nile Valley. It shows that once the climate changed, the people were forced to search for a steady supply of water to the South and East, being the Niger and Nile Rivers.

http://www.lincoln.edu/history/his30...-01-sahara.wmv

Dr. Chiekh Anta Diop also mentions this in his African Origin of Civilization. Oh yeah, there is an important note in this video that Music Producer should take heed since he is so adamant that the Asiatic Hyksos brought chariotry into Africa. Thousands of years before Dynastic Kemet, the formation of chariots were found in these cave paintings of the Sahara; these are the same people who migrated into the Nile Valley millenia before the Hyksos period in Kemet.

Shemsi:

Asiatic is an invented word by a sect of Caucasian Egyptologist or Historians to avoid saying African. The closest people that we would call a so-called Asiatic would be the Aborigines of today. In recent DNA genome technology studies, the Aborigines of Australia can genetically be traced to India. The Human DNA genome blood trail that shows the migration patterns of all humans coming out of Africa reveals that the standard Caucasian of today could not have been the Hyksos because the Caucasian was one of the last races of people to become on this earth. The reason for this is because a lot of Europe and know what is called EU was covered in ice. There is evidence of a Neanderthal population in early EU but as you know Neanderthal are not classified as Human.

With the new DNA genome research and what it reveals words such as Asiatic and Eurasian need to be revisited because it is revealing that Africa and all of Asia was inhabited by all Africans. The white man can not find his own pure DNA no later than 2000BC. The entire DNA that populated all of EU is traced back to Kazakhstan, there look is similar to the American Indian or Eskimos.

The blond haired blue eyed white man of today was not in Egypt nor did he set on the throne of Egypt until after the Roman Occupation. By that time Egypt was pretty much destroyed and the great ones were already gone.
You can look at this photo and pickout wich ones are the Natives of Kazakhstan.
http://www.faithfuladoption.org/adoption/kazakhstan/children_big.jpg

Shemsi:

Asiatic is an invented word by a sect of Caucasian Egyptologist or Historians to avoid saying African. The closest people that we would call a so-called Asiatic would be the Aborigines of today. In recent DNA genome technology studies, the Aborigines of Australia can genetically be traced to India. The Human DNA genome blood trail that shows the migration patterns of all humans coming out of Africa reveals that the standard Caucasian of today could not have been the Hyksos because the Caucasian was one of the last races of people to become on this earth. The reason for this is because a lot of Europe and know what is called EU was covered in ice. There is evidence of a Neanderthal population in early EU but as you know Neanderthal are not classified as Human.

With the new DNA genome research and what it reveals words such as Asiatic and Eurasian need to be revisited because it is revealing that Africa and all of Asia was inhabited by all Africans. The white man can not find his own pure DNA no later than 2000BC. The entire DNA that populated all of EU is traced back to Kazakhstan, there look is similar to the American Indian or Eskimos.

The blond haired blue eyed white man of today was not in Egypt nor did he set on the throne of Egypt until after the Roman Occupation. By that time Egypt was pretty much destroyed and the great ones were already gone.
You can look at this photo and pickout wich ones are the Natives of Kazakhstan.
http://www.faithfuladoption.org/adoption/kazakhstan/children_big.jpg


What does this have to do with the wall paintings in the Sahara clearly depicting chariotry thousands of years before the Hyksos era? These were the people of proto-Dynastic Kemet.

E.A. Wallis Budge, “An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary” volumes 1 and 2.
ISBN 0-486-23615-3
ISBN 0-486-23616-1


Music Producer,

I just noticed something this morning.

I have been referencing different texts.

An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Reading book for Beginners by Budge, and

A Hieroglyphic Vocabulary To the Book of the Dead, by Budge.

At some point I need to order the books you have cited.

Om.

What does this have to do with the wall paintings in the Sahara clearly depicting chariotry thousands of years before the Hyksos era? These were the people of proto-Dynastic Kemet.
I’m sorry I got my deserts mixed up for a second their. Yes, I will agree, these people were called the Garamantes Empire; their descendants today are the Tuareg, Moors and Dogon.

Quote:

"Not only did he marry her, but it disrupted Kemet because he changed the direction of worship due to her."

This viewppoint is my basic point of disagreement here. I can concede to other points but not on this one. This is where I will act as "Akenatnen's advocate"!

What PRIMARY SOURCE materials establish this as fact?

See the other thread that you started in the Open Forum, for my responses.

What was the origin of Akenaten"s mother?

Quite possibly, Eurasian.

Did Akhenaten's father marry a woman of foreign origin?

Yes (see above).

Did Akhenaten's mother serve as co-regent during the early part of his reign?

Yes.....And?

Who was Ai (Ay) and was was his origin?

Good Question:

http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/pharaons/ay/e_ay.htm

But who was AY?
One thing is certain, he was not the legitimate heir to the throne and, to a certain degree, his reign could constitute a dynasty all of its own, just like that of his succressor HOREMHEB.
His origin remains obscure, as does his possible domestic ties to the Dynasty of the Thutmosides, who were up power up to here. We will not go there because no tangible fact exsists..

So here, we see that yet another personality (AY) just pops out of nowhere, and then slides out just as mysteriously.

However, what is known, is that he had "connections" of a domestic nature with Thutmosis's peoples, who had connections with the Mitanni (as established in your other thread).


Five basic questions which may not be answered here but I believe that they are pertinent in relation to the "Hyksos" and their origin and role in ancient Kemet.

I agree that they do in fact bear relevance, but please do not say that no one is making an attempt to answer them.

I created another thread where these questions can be dealt with.

And I have answered these and other questions there as well.

PEACE

Image of Queen Tiy wearing the Ethiopian head-bag as can be seen worn by Tutankhaten
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/images/women_tiy_statue.jpg

Tutankhaten wearing Ethiopian head-bag along with crown
http://www.clt.astate.edu/wnarey/Bible%20as%20Literature%20pictures/Restoration%20Stela%20gods%20and%20godesses%20rest ored%20to%20Egypt%20by%20Tutankhamun,%20son%20to%2 0Akhenaten,%20who%20closed%20all%20temples%20for%2 0one%20god.jpg

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/tiye5.html

Eurasian, I don’t thank so. Ethiopian, yeaaa.

Why would a Eurasian (What ever that is), wear the Ethiopian Head-Bag?

Anuk:
Due to your promotion of the Hyksos being from the Caucus Mountains and then when faced with the records of Herodotus you jumped or changed you argument to the Hyksos being the Amorites, we no longer have anything to discuss or talk about. You have proven your objective here is not the exploration of truth.
http://destee.com/forums/showpost.ph...2&postcount=88

Sam:
Due to your post of intentional misrepresentation of the Egyptian time line there is nothing more you and I have to discuss and there is no need for you to replay in my threads.
http://destee.com/forums/showpost.ph...98&postcount=3

Image of Queen Tiy wearing the Ethiopian head-bag as can be seen worn by Tutankhaten
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/images/women_tiy_statue.jpg

Tutankhaten wearing Ethiopian head-bag along with crown
http://www.clt.astate.edu/wnarey/Bible%20as%20Literature%20pictures/Restoration%20Stela%20gods%20and%20godesses%20rest ored%20to%20Egypt%20by%20Tutankhamun,%20son%20to%2 0Akhenaten,%20who%20closed%20all%20temples%20for%2 0one%20god.jpg

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/tiye5.html

Eurasian, I don’t thank so. Ethiopian, yeaaa.

Why would a Eurasian (What ever that is), wear the Ethiopian Head-Bag?


"Eurasian, I don't think so. Ethiopian, yeaaa."


Straight from KHEPSH!

See the other thread that you started in the Open Forum, for my responses.



Quite possibly, Eurasian.



Yes (see above).



Yes.....And?



Good Question:

http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/pharaons/ay/e_ay.htm

But who was AY?
One thing is certain, he was not the legitimate heir to the throne and, to a certain degree, his reign could constitute a dynasty all of its own, just like that of his succressor HOREMHEB.
His origin remains obscure, as does his possible domestic ties to the Dynasty of the Thutmosides, who were up power up to here. We will not go there because no tangible fact exsists..

So here, we see that yet another personality (AY) just pops out of nowhere, and then slides out just as mysteriously.

However, what is known, is that he had "connections" of a domestic nature with Thutmosis's peoples, who had connections with the Mitanni (as established in your other thread).




I agree that they do in fact bear relevance, but please do not say that no one is making an attempt to answer them.



And I have answered these and other questions there as well.

PEACE


Akhenaten's mother "Quite possibly Eurasian?"

:lol:

http://www.swagga.com/queen.htm#tiye

Akhenaten's mother "Quite possibly Eurasian?"

:lol:

http://www.swagga.com/queen.htm#tiye


Yeah...a quick glance at Queen Tiye makes that claim kind of ridiculous.

Is anyone familiar with, “The Legend of Horus of Behutet and the Winged Disk”?

http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/liberation2.html

I have given this web page in order to allow some readers to get an idea of history that started the war between the Hyksos and Upper Egypt. It was basically an insult to the Pharaoh of Upper Egypt through a taunting from a Hyksos Pharaoh of Lower Egypt referring to a joke made about sacred animals making too much noise.

As you can see this is an African web page that also promotes the Hyksos as being Caucasian, a point that we as a people must re-visit and evaluate because it does not make a lot of since. I have already suggested the Hyksos as being related to the Garamantes people of the Fezzan of Libya, which is a stronger hypothesis then the Hyksos being of Syria, Jordon, Iraq or Saudi Arabia because evidence of the Technological levels of those areas are not their for the Hyksos to have been of those regions.

In evaluating the true Egyptian name for the Hyksos which is “hikau khausut” we can began to see a possible translation as to the Hyksos actually being apart of the tribal demographics that made-up Egypt and their City was named Khaasut. This would began to explain why the Hyksos had relations with Egyptian gods, had an interest in preserving Egyptian doctrine and ruled Lower Egypt for about 110 years with absolutely no resistance from Upper Egypt or South Egypt, same burial style as Egypt and it also begins to explain why the Ethiopians or Kush would assist the Hyksos in a basic battle classic called the Pinch Maneuver as to where two armies attack an enemy from two fronts. All of this simply does not add-up to Hyksos being foreigners or barbarians. I began to suspect Manetho to have been writing from an exaggerated version of the Hyksos. I began to suspect the Hyksos to have simply been an uprising of a specific people of Egypt that stemmed from neglect of Lower Egypt from incompetent Pharaohs of Upper Egypt.

In studying the Dynasties just before the so-called Hyksos invasion we can see that it was so bad that a strait record of who was who and when is difficult to decipher. It looks as if extreme bickering and fighting was occurring between actual family members and during all of this nothing was getting done and nothing was being built and the country was being neglected, especially Lower Egypt. This mayhem seems to have been the reason for an up-rising in Lower Egypt, which would explain whys and hows of the Hyksos taking control without delivering a blow; it was a political take over because the current government had become incompetent. It also begins to explain why the Hyksos ruled Lower Egypt with no resistance what so ever from Upper Egypt, the Hyksos were already people of the country which is why their throne names mach perfectly to that of all other Pharaohs.

http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/liberation2.html

I have given this web page in order to allow some readers to get an idea of history that started the war between the Hyksos and Upper Egypt. It was basically an insult to the Pharaoh of Upper Egypt through a taunting from a Hyksos Pharaoh of Lower Egypt referring to a joke made about sacred animals making too much noise.

As you can see this is an African web page that also promotes the Hyksos as being Caucasian, a point that we as a people must re-visit and evaluate because it does not make a lot of since. I have already suggested the Hyksos as being related to the Garamantes people of the Fezzan of Libya, which is a stronger hypothesis then the Hyksos being of Syria, Jordon, Iraq or Saudi Arabia because evidence of the Technological levels of those areas are not their for the Hyksos to have been of those regions.

In evaluating the true Egyptian name for the Hyksos which is “hikau khausut” we can began to see a possible translation as to the Hyksos actually being apart of the tribal demographics that made-up Egypt and their City was named Khaasut. This would began to explain why the Hyksos had relations with Egyptian gods, had an interest in preserving Egyptian doctrine and ruled Lower Egypt for about 110 years with absolutely no resistance from Upper Egypt or South Egypt, same burial style as Egypt and it also begins to explain why the Ethiopians or Kush would assist the Hyksos in a basic battle classic called the Pinch Maneuver as to where two armies attack an enemy from two fronts. All of this simply does not add-up to Hyksos being foreigners or barbarians. I began to suspect Manetho to have been writing from an exaggerated version of the Hyksos. I began to suspect the Hyksos to have simply been an uprising of a specific people of Egypt that stemmed from neglect of Lower Egypt from incompetent Pharaohs of Upper Egypt.

In studying the Dynasties just before the so-called Hyksos invasion we can see that it was so bad that a strait record of who was who and when is difficult to decipher. It looks as if extreme bickering and fighting was occurring between actual family members and during all of this nothing was getting done and nothing was being built and the country was being neglected, especially Lower Egypt. This mayhem seems to have been the reason for an up-rising in Lower Egypt, which would explain whys and hows of the Hyksos taking control without delivering a blow; it was a political take over because the current government had become incompetent. It also begins to explain why the Hyksos ruled Lower Egypt with no resistance what so ever from Upper Egypt, the Hyksos were already people of the country which is why their throne names mach perfectly to that of all other Pharaohs.


http://www.nemo.nu/ibisportal/0egyptintro/2aegypt/index.htm

Under the section dealing with the nomes, Khasuut is the capital of the 6th Nome.
It is also spelled Khaset (Kha-Set).
Local god:Amon-Re

It also went by the name Xois.

The Hyksos from a black perspective:

In my reading of the Sirius Mystery, which I have yet to complete but have read the chapter, “The Rising of the Serpents Tooth” my suspicions that the Hyksos were an African tribe grew and now had a source. In the chapter a book was referenced that was published around 1967, “Lost Worlds of Africa”, by James Wellard, witch I now have on order. In this book there is a reference to “The People of the Chariots” that describes an ancient African Empire of the Libyan Desert. These people were called the Garamantes and their Empire goes undated and unexplored as the ruins waste away in the desert to this very day. The Dogon are suspected to be descendants of the Garamantes. Other historians such as Herodotus, writing in 450BC also makes references to these Garamantes people and their Chariots. Also we have another historian that has referenced them and their Chariots, Strabo.

As I was reading this it came to me that these Garamantes just might be our Hyksos. The Garamantes had a continued and long history of constantly raiding the Ethiopians in their Chariots and pillaging Ethiopian villages. As I did more research on the net there is indeed ancient ruins in the Libyan Desert, that have basically gone untouched by archeologist because they are in odd locations.

In the white mans standard history of the Hyksos we have a problem that arise to me as I was looking at a map of ancient Egypt. Understand that in ancient Egypt the water levels of the Nile and the Delta were much higher then they are today, much of the Delta of Egypt has dried up. So my question became in looking at the route the Hyksos would have had to take in order to reach Memphis as the white man presents them would have taken them right into the Nile River. How did they cross a River or a marsh land Delta with Chariots? You ever ride you bicycle through mud? Surely the Egyptians with their harden Army would have took this as a perfect point of ambushing the Hyksos, while their Chariots were stuck in the mud or while they were crossing a raging river.

Something just doesn’t add up with this picture. One reason the white man would continue this perception is to place him in Egypt and being responsible for the growth of Egypt. But in reality the Hyksos crossing a river or marsh lands of the Delta in Chariots to war with the Egyptians may be one of the biggest myths created by the white man because they see Rome as being the originator of the Chariot.

With this new information of the Garamantes Empire of Libya that is historically recorded as having Chariots and running frequent raids on surrounding nations I now suspect they are the original Hyksos people. Manetho records them as coming from the North, which caused the assumption that they came from Jerusalem and reinforces the white mans desire to establish them as the original Chariot inventor. But what if they followed the Mediterranean Libyan coastline until reaching the Delta. This route would indeed make them come from the North as they approached Memphis. This rout also has no obstructions such as river or marshlands that would hamper a chariot and horses.

What is your thought on this newfound information?

This is a page that has some basic information on them.
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/200403/libya.s.forgotten.desert.kingdom.htm

Upon further examination, research indicates that the term "Hyksos" itself was created by the greeks.

IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE that the term "Hyksos" refers to the "KHASET", or the people from the 6th Nome in Ta-mehu (lower Egypt).

Thus a distinction was made of them by the people of Ta-schema (upper Egypt) when they "invaded" during the 14th dynasty.

Interestingly, the name of Kha-Set was later re-named Xois by the greeks and this was the capital of the 6th nome and Kaset was the name of the "nome god", the local god being Amen-Re.

Kha-Set or Khasuut was also known as Sakha and is today Kafr el-Sheikh.

There is a possible relation between the "Kha-Set" and the 19th Dynasty rulers when examining various names during this period.

http://sethy1.free.fr/histoira.html

Is anyone familiar with, “The Legend of Horus of Behutet and the Winged Disk”?


I was giving this one some time before I responded but my last post before this is related to where I think you are going with this.

Therefore let me explain.

The Kha-Set that I mentioned were in actuality the Sons of Set who were defeated by Heru Behudet and re-settled in the North Country.

They were a small sect who introduced the worship of Amen-Re at a time when Osiris (Ausar) was considered the principal deity and they were defeated.

They later were able to ascend to the throne in the 14th century and reintroduce Amen worship but this was in the Nile Valley, Ta-mehu, but the ancient form of worship continued in the South, Ta-schema.

The descendants of the Kha-Set was the Amenist priesthood who again gained ascendancy during the upheaval caused by the Amarna revolution and along with assistance from the military, they were finally able to reconstitute themselves with the establishment of the 19th Dynasty under Rameses I.

This accounts for the name -khaset-, which is not present in "egyptian" etymology, until it appears in the names of various nobles related to the "Setis".

Consequently, the Ramesids, and later the greeks, and his-storians such as Manetho, have "rewritten" egyptian his-tory to obfuscate the true identity of the -kha-set-, the remnant of the Sons of Set who always opposed the worship of Ausar (i.e. Osiris) which also explains why ther god "Amen" literally means "hidden".

Because their true identity was itself "hidden" and made into a school of "Mystery".

PEACE!

I was giving this one some time before I responded but my last post before this is related to where I think you are going with this.

Therefore let me explain.

The Kha-Set that I mentioned were in actuality the Sons of Set who were defeated by Heru Behudet and re-settled in the North Country.

They were a small sect who introduced the worship of Amen-Re at a time when Osiris (Ausar) was considered the principal deity and they were defeated.

They later were able to ascend to the throne in the 14th century and reintroduce Amen worship but this was in the Nile Valley, Ta-mehu, but the ancient form of worship continued in the South, Ta-schema.

The descendants of the Kha-Set was the Amenist priesthood who again gained ascendancy during the upheaval caused by the Amarna revolution and along with assistance from the military, they were finally able to reconstitute themselves with the establishment of the 19th Dynasty under Rameses I.

This accounts for the name -khaset-, which is not present in "egyptian" etymology, until it appears in the names of various nobles related to the "Setis".

Consequently, the Ramesids, and later the greeks, and his-storians such as Manetho, have "rewritten" egyptian his-tory to obfuscate the true identity of the -kha-set-, the remnant of the Sons of Set who always opposed the worship of Ausar (i.e. Osiris) which also explains why ther god "Amen" literally means "hidden".

Because their true identity was itself "hidden" and made into a school of "Mystery".

PEACE!

Your literalized view of African theology is most interesting.

I was giving this one some time before I responded but my last post before this is related to where I think you are going with this.

Therefore let me explain.

The Kha-Set that I mentioned were in actuality the Sons of Set who were defeated by Heru Behudet and re-settled in the North Country.

They were a small sect who introduced the worship of Amen-Re at a time when Osiris (Ausar) was considered the principal deity and they were defeated.

They later were able to ascend to the throne in the 14th century and reintroduce Amen worship but this was in the Nile Valley, Ta-mehu, but the ancient form of worship continued in the South, Ta-schema.

The descendants of the Kha-Set was the Amenist priesthood who again gained ascendancy during the upheaval caused by the Amarna revolution and along with assistance from the military, they were finally able to reconstitute themselves with the establishment of the 19th Dynasty under Rameses I.

This accounts for the name -khaset-, which is not present in "egyptian" etymology, until it appears in the names of various nobles related to the "Setis".

Consequently, the Ramesids, and later the greeks, and his-storians such as Manetho, have "rewritten" egyptian his-tory to obfuscate the true identity of the -kha-set-, the remnant of the Sons of Set who always opposed the worship of Ausar (i.e. Osiris) which also explains why ther god "Amen" literally means "hidden".

Because their true identity was itself "hidden" and made into a school of "Mystery".

PEACE!

are u familar with the fact that set hours and ra are only titles and several rulers assumed these titles thourghout time. These titles are similar to current titles of power in the western society today. there were several hours, set, and ausar, and ra's . The theology developed by our kemetic ancestors where a way of associating the spritual (ie un seen side of extience) they were given human and animalistic charcteristics to demonstrate the duality of hu man nature and development. I also find it interesting that we speak of such historical information which such confidence as if we where there.(and this comment is not just centered towards you brother. just a thought hotep wadu brother

are u familar with the fact that set hours and ra are only titles and several rulers assumed these titles thourghout time. These titles are similar to current titles of power in the western society today. there were several hours, set, and ausar, and ra's . The theology developed by our kemetic ancestors where a way of associating the spritual (ie un seen side of extience) they were given human and animalistic charcteristics to demonstrate the duality of hu man nature and development. I also find it interesting that we speak of such historical information which such confidence as if we where there.(and this comment is not just centered towards you brother. just a thought hotep wadu brother


Re:

"the theology developed by our ke,metic ancestors"

Make that YOUR "kemetic ancestors.

I do not claim "kemetic ancestry".

My ancestors are Akan and Ethiopian (Khepsh). My "ancestors" who settled in "kemet" were of Nubian ancestry. from the South country. From the region of the Sandawe then North into the Ethiopian Highlamds and another group into the Niger Valley. "kemet" comes much later. I am aware among the people of Shoa the title of RAS which is 'titular'.

If I speak "of historical which such confidence" it is becassue my Elde'rs before me raised me with this knowledge of which I spent 20 years in the school system myself teaching to the youth.

Is anyone familiar with, “The Legend of Horus of Behutet and the Winged Disk”?

http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/leg/leg07.htm

Thanks all,

Now that we all have a source as to where we can read this text for ourselves I can tell you what I began to suspect.

Ra in this particular story is one of the Hyksos Kings.

I am continuing to read the story for a second time. Everyone is familiar with the taunting insult reference to the sacred animal the hippopotamus made by the Hyksos King, which started the war between the Hyksos, North, and the Pharaohs of the South. Due to a reference in the story where Horus the son of Ra fights with the hippopotamus and the binding (enslavement or forced labor) of the people (of the South stuck in the North), I suspect this story to be centered around when the war began between the Hyksos and Egyptian Pharaohs of the South. It also begins to reveal that the Hyksos sprung up from a place located in-between Thebes and Memphis.

Ra may have been Apepi I and Horus may have been Apepi II.

Apepi I throne name was Au-ser-ra (Great and powerful like Ra).
Apepi II throne name was Aqen-en-Ra (Spirit of Ra).

I am continuing to read the story for more information. The version I am reading is from Wallis Budge, “Legends of the Egyptian Gods”. Now I will read the Internet version also and see if it reveals more info.

Another link I just made from the Internet version. Here we see the Chariots that are claimed to have been used by the Hyksos.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/leg/img/pl09.jpg

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/edfu.htm

As you look at the Chariot drawing in post #147 notice that the chariot is drawn exactly as those described by Herodotus in relation to the people of Garamantes, light weight and pulled by four horses.
http://www.archaeology.org/0403/abstracts/sands.html


Descended from Berbers and Saharan pastoralists, the Garamantes were likely present as a tribal people in the Fezzan by at least 1000 B.C. They first appeared in the historical record in the fifth century B.C., when Herodotus noted the Garamantes were an exceedingly numerous people who herded cattle (that grazed backward!) and who hunted "troglodyte Ethiopians" from four-horse chariots.


As I study the Hyksos more and more it does indeed began to point to them being of Africa and of the African race and they were also apart of the tribal demographics that made-up Egypt. Edfu is located on the West Bank of the Nile River which most likely had a road leading from Edfu strait to the Fezzan in Libya and was probably a great trade rout, which explains the ancient pyramid structures and Temples to Amun found in the Libyan Desert.

African Americans and the world has been lied to about the race of the Hyksos by a specific sect of white Egyptologist and Historians because the Hyksos are responsible for being the catapult for the 18th Dynasties of Kemet, which was one of the most Powerful and Prosperous Dynasties of the entire Kemet History.

Thanks all,

Now that we all have a source as to where we can read this text for ourselves I can tell you what I began to suspect.

Ra in this particular story is one of the Hyksos Kings.

I am continuing to read the story for a second time. Everyone is familiar with the taunting insult reference to the sacred animal the hippopotamus made by the Hyksos King, which started the war between the Hyksos, North, and the Pharaohs of the South. Due to a reference in the story where Horus the son of Ra fights with the hippopotamus and the binding (enslavement or forced labor) of the people (of the South stuck in the North), I suspect this story to be centered around when the war began between the Hyksos and Egyptian Pharaohs of the South. It also begins to reveal that the Hyksos sprung up from a place located in-between Thebes and Memphis.

Ra may have been Apepi I and Horus may have been Apepi II.

Apepi I throne name was Au-ser-ra (Great and powerful like Ra).
Apepi II throne name was Aqen-en-Ra (Spirit of Ra).

I am continuing to read the story for more information. The version I am reading is from Wallis Budge, “Legends of the Egyptian Gods”. Now I will read the Internet version also and see if it reveals more info.


The problem I have with this is that this conflict was during the time of Horus and Set, a conflict between the Egyptians and the Nubians in Upper "Egypt". It far predates any Hyksos in the area and the Hyksos are never recorded as being anywhere near Nubia.

OK,

DNA genome research being continuously performed at this very moment has already proven that the European DNA genome is too new to have been the Hyksos. Thus we have to begin looking for other alternatives for what people the Hyksos could have been.

When one does this we find a Great Empire in Libya that was called the Garamantes Empire. The Garamantians were an ancient African people that utilized lightweight Chariots that were pulled by four horses. As of this day the ruins of the Garamantes Empire go unexplored, unexcavated by any archeologist.

The Dogon of today say they are descendants of the Garamantes.

Egyptian theology is a derivative of the Dogon theology.

I'm sure that the problem here is one of chronology.

The account of the Garamantes does not date back to the pre-dynastic conflict between Horus and Set, nor are they mentioned as having occupied Nubia prior or during the period of the Hyksos in lower Egypt.

If one seeks to establish their existence according to the account of Horus of Behudet, this is no small error. This account itself does not credit the hyksos or 'garamantes" with use of the chariot but states,

..."and having followed by the goddess Asthertet, who is described as the "mistress of horses"and who in the form of a woman with the head of a lioness is seen standing in a chariot, agrees to his son's proposal. The chariot of the goddess is drawn by four horses, which trample upon the foes of Ra, who lie upon the ground bound with fetters."

Budge, "The Gods of the Egyptians", p478.

The following has an illustration of Ashtertet,
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/texts/horus_of_behutet.htm

The problem I have with this is that this conflict was during the time of Horus and Set, a conflict between the Egyptians and the Nubians in Upper "Egypt". It far predates any Hyksos in the area and the Hyksos are never recorded as being anywhere near Nubia.

The gods of Egypt are simply used to mask the true names of the Pharaoh and was a standard way of recording and documenting Egyptian History. As the Pharaohs being written about were most likely already dead, the Egyptians believed in the Pharaohs continued existence as a god, thus when they recorded a pharaohs history or events in that pharaohs life they wrote the pharaoh as a god and deified them as such within the historical writings, just as the Old Testament records Lord-Ay as Adon-ay, it is the same tradition that was used to record Egyptian History by Egyptian Priests.

What are you using from that story to date it or place it in a time zone of Kemet?

I use the Chariot and use of it; also we have this within the text itself……….

The followers of Horus here mentioned are called in the text "Mesniu," i.e., "blacksmiths," or "workers in metal,"


The time period in which you are trying to project this story would predate metalworkings and blacksmiths in Egypt. Also the advanced weaponry “metal” battle-ax and spears are some of the things attributed to the Hyksos, unless of course you are looking at this story as a representation of an advanced race that no longer exists. If that is your point of view, then I understand.

I'm sure that the problem here is one of chronology.

The account of the Garamantes does not date back to the pre-dynastic conflict between Horus and Set, nor are they mentioned as having occupied Nubia prior or during the period of the Hyksos in lower Egypt.

If one seeks to establish their existence according to the account of Horus of Behudet, this is no small error. This account itself does not credit the hyksos or 'garamantes" with use of the chariot but states,

..."and having followed by the goddess Asthertet, who is described as the "mistress of horses"and who in the form of a woman with the head of a lioness is seen standing in a chariot, agrees to his son's proposal. The chariot of the goddess is drawn by four horses, which trample upon the foes of Ra, who lie upon the ground bound with fetters."

Budge, "The Gods of the Egyptians", p478.

The following has an illustration of Ashtertet,
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/texts/horus_of_behutet.htm
I understand what you are saying but this story has nothing to do with pre-dynastic Egypt. It has to do with a record of the Hyksos masked under the discourse of gods and deification of the ancestors.

I will say it like this……

If this story truly dealt with events of pre-dynastic Egypt it would not be so difficult to find evidence of Chariots and objects made of Iron in Egypt that predates Dynasty 12. If it truly dealt with pre-dynastic times we should easily find the Egyptians riding chariots and using iron weapons because they would have learned all of this from those events recorded in the story.

To draw a picture of a god riding on a chariot but not strive to reach that level of technology is unnatural. To see and record of the superiority of metal spears as apposed to wooden spears with flint tips and not strive to reach the level of technology to achieve the more superior spear is unnatural.

How could the Egyptians have in their possession for thousands upon thousands of years access to records that reveal superior technology of weapons made of metal but never strive for that? The war chariot would have been duplicated simply through the image of it, but yet it never was until a late period; I find that odd, don’t you?

The gods of Egypt are simply used to mask the true names of the Pharaoh and was a standard way of recording and documenting Egyptian History. As the Pharaohs being written about were most likely already dead, the Egyptians believed in the Pharaohs continued existence as a god, thus when they recorded a pharaohs history or events in that pharaohs life they wrote the pharaoh as a god and deified them as such within the historical writings, just as the Old Testament records Lord-Ay as Adon-ay, it is the same tradition that was used to record Egyptian History by Egyptian Priests.

What are you using from that story to date it or place it in a time zone of Kemet?

I use the Chariot and use of it; also we have this within the text itself……….


The time period in which you are trying to project this story would predate metalworkings and blacksmiths in Egypt. Also the advanced weaponry “metal” battle-ax and spears are some of the things attributed to the Hyksos, unless of course you are looking at this story as a representation of an advanced race that no longer exists. If that is your point of view, then I understand.
I am not going to get into a long debate about this and give it any more attention that it deserves.

The story of Horus and Set is predynastic and preceeds any Pharaoh and certainly this account predates the so-called Hyksos "invasion" in to lower Egypt.

Again, it details the conflict between Ta-meri (Egypt) and Ta-Nehesy (Nubia). And the Nubian account is OLDER than the Egyptian.

Furthermore I am not trying to "project" anything. Just look at my avatar!

It gives evidence of the OX-DRAWN CHARIOT evidenced in Nubia as it relates to the goddess who also was equated with Ashorteth.

The account I am going by is the actual one you presented in which "Horus of Behudet" is spoken of as recruiting from Nubia a group of mercenaries known as the "Blacksmiths" so there is no way that this account could "predate metalworkings and blacksmiths in Egypt" unless of course these same "Blacksmiths" are of NUBIAN (T-Nehesy) ORIGIN.

Which, of course, they are!

You and others can continue with this "Northern" origin for everything line of argumentation.

I am looking further into the DEEP SOUTHERN ROOTS of the Matter!

I understand what you are saying but this story has nothing to do with pre-dynastic Egypt. It has to do with a record of the Hyksos masked under the discourse of gods and deification of the ancestors.

I will say it like this……

If this story truly dealt with events of pre-dynastic Egypt it would not be so difficult to find evidence of Chariots and objects made of Iron in Egypt that predates Dynasty 12. If it truly dealt with pre-dynastic times we should easily find the Egyptians riding chariots and using iron weapons because they would have learned all of this from those events recorded in the story.

To draw a picture of a god riding on a chariot but not strive to reach that level of technology is unnatural. To see and record of the superiority of metal spears as apposed to wooden spears with flint tips and not strive to reach the level of technology to achieve the more superior spear is unnatural.

How could the Egyptians have in their possession for thousands upon thousands of years access to records that reveal superior technology of weapons made of metal but never strive for that? The war chariot would have been duplicated simply through the image of it, but yet it never was until a late period; I find that odd, don’t you?

Quote:

"I understand what you are sayiing but this story has nothing to do with pre-Dynastic Egypt."

I totally disagree and if this is your argument then I have nothing else to say to you.

The story of Horus of Behudet ahs everything to do with the pre-Dynastic era and the conflict between Nubia and Egypt and I have not read one source which indicates otherwise, with the exception of your speculation.

Again, you are focusing on the level of technology in EGYPT but the evidence shows this to have been a NUBIAN invention and it was the reason that "Horus" employed the Nubian mercenaries against their own ruling class and why the Libyans and Hyksos later sought to form alliance with the Nubians because of their skill with the OX DRAWN CHARIOT.


later...

I am not arguing with you, simply researching for my own understanding……


Again, it details the conflict between Ta-meri (Egypt) and Ta-Nehesy (Nubia). And the Nubian account is OLDER than the Egyptian.

Could you give ISBN and book title or web page that contains the Nubian account?
The reason we may see differently is because you have more information.

Thanks

I am not arguing with you, simply researching for my own understanding……


Could you give ISBN and book title or web page that contains the Nubian account?
The reason we may see differently is because you have more information.

Thanks

As a starting point I suggest the following website,

http://www.peacockangel.net/sudan.htm

I would also suggest reading "Budge's The Gods of the Egyptians where he speaks concerning Horus of Behudet and the Goddess Ashtoreth.

Really, I need to move on. I have been putting my books away and focusing on another area (website development) and will soon be "blogging" some of the information I shared in the thread on the "Mystery of Meroe" within a few days.

from this point on I will simply concede and let you riase whatever arguments or speculation in which you desire because throughtout his-story that's what most "his-torians" seem to have done anyway.

At the same time I shall do likewise and advance my own "theories" which folks are free to reject as they may.

The problem here is that in most historical record there is a proto-Egyptian bias and Nubia is not given its due. it's obvious if you google "Nubian War Chariot" or do a similar search the information will put you around the same time period as the "hysksos" in Egypt. At the same time they speak of the "hyksos" recruiting Nubian allies and the Egyptians subjegating the Nubians. The Nubians are central to this but racism has resulted in "outsiders" being credited with the "war chariot".

The web site I referenced above is only one which mentions the early Nubian culture dating to 3700 B.C. which predates by 500-600 years the Egyptian dynasty of narmer (menes). It also speaks of the Kerma culture. This also predated the "Egyptian".

It was between this time period that the conflict between "Horus" and "Set" took place, leading to the founding of the First Dynasty.....

This obviously far exceeds the time period of the Hyksos, garamantes, or any other people from the North Countries entering into the Nile valley.

Peace...

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/edfu.htm


No larger remains dating earlier than the 5th Dynasty have been found at Edfu. Its most ancient cemetery comprised the mastabas of the Old Kingdom as well as later tombs, and covers the area southwest of the precinct of the great temple of Horus. Before the beginning of the New Kingdom, the necropolis was transferred to Hager Edfu, to the west, and then in the Late period to the south at Nag’ el-Hassaya. The entire area was called Behedet. The god Horus was herein worshipped as Horus Behedet.


From this web page we see that no archeological information has been found in Edfu that predates the 5th Dynasty of Egypt.

How then is Edfu referenced in “The Legend of Horus of Behutet” if the story is dealing with pre-dynastic Egypt?

Edfu would not have been in existence during pre-dynastic Egypt?

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/edfu.htm


From this web page we see that no archeological information has been found in Edfu that predates the 5th Dynasty of Egypt.

How then is Edfu referenced in “The Legend of Horus of Behutet” if the story is dealing with pre-dynastic Egypt?

Edfu would not have been in existence during pre-dynastic Egypt?

Sir, you are picking at parts and not looking at the whole. You keep citing NON-NUBIAN sources speaking of a situation concerning the Nubians.


Again, you are speaking from a NORTHERN bias....

Carry on.....(It has been stated previously that most material predating the Theban recension was LOST or DESTROYED!).

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/edfu.htm


From this web page we see that no archeological information has been found in Edfu that predates the 5th Dynasty of Egypt.

How then is Edfu referenced in “The Legend of Horus of Behutet” if the story is dealing with pre-dynastic Egypt?

Edfu would not have been in existence during pre-dynastic Egypt?

Furthermore, the article does NOT state that "no archaeological information has been found".

In fact, it speaks of some OVAL GRAVES which were COMPLETELY PLUNDERED"...

Which has been exactly my point!

The "evidence" was "lost" or "destroyed". This is not to say it did not exist!

Understand that I am not arguing, I am simply seeking out Truth and I feel the way to do that is through comparing what we all know.

I began to see the people of Nubia and the people of Kemet as being the same people but grouped by tribes which was grouped by Metropolitans etc...

I began to believe this because the concept of the red and white crown had to be a preconceived idea in order for the crowns to fit physically together perfectly. I suspect the idea of Upper and Lower Egypt was conceived some time in Ethiopia. And as you can see the gods in the story are already wearing the red and white crowns.

Who or what do you believe originated the idea of the Red and White Crowns and of what location?

Understand that I am not arguing, I am simply seeking out Truth and I feel the way to do that is through comparing what we all know.

I began to see the people of Nubia and the people of Kemet as being the same people but grouped by tribes which was grouped by Metropolitans etc...

I began to believe this because the concept of the red and white crown had to be a preconceived idea in order for the crowns to fit physically together perfectly. I suspect the idea of Upper and Lower Egypt was conceived some time in Ethiopia. And as you can see the gods in the story are already wearing the red and white crowns.

Who or what do you believe originated the idea of the Red and White Crowns and of what location?


http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/crown.html

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/crown.html
http://www.egyptvoyager.com/predynastic%20_2.htm

Understand that I am not arguing, I am simply seeking out Truth and I feel the way to do that is through comparing what we all know.

I began to see the people of Nubia and the people of Kemet as being the same people but grouped by tribes which was grouped by Metropolitans etc...

I began to believe this because the concept of the red and white crown had to be a preconceived idea in order for the crowns to fit physically together perfectly. I suspect the idea of Upper and Lower Egypt was conceived some time in Ethiopia. And as you can see the gods in the story are already wearing the red and white crowns.

Who or what do you believe originated the idea of the Red and White Crowns and of what location?

Evidence of the Badarians
http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/badarians.html

Evidence of the Badarians
http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/badarians.html
http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/qustul.html

Could you give ISBN and book title or web page that contains the Nubian account that predates the account that I have access to?
The reason we may see differently is because you have more information.

Thanks

In my second reading of “The Legend of Hours of Behutet” I see clearer now that this recording is indeed of the Hyksos but masked by references of gods and deification. Through other examples that I have already shown in this thread, I know have another piece of the puzzle.

As I stated earlier I suspected the Hyksos as rising up from a place located between Thebes and Memphis. As we read the story we do indeed see Ra first traveling south or up the Nile River to defeat some enemies. Then we see Ra traveling north or to the Delta to once again defeats more enemies.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/leg/leg07.htm


The so-called Hyksos invasion is the only time period in which the North and the South of Egypt were so-called defeated.

I shall continue my examination of this……

Summery of points:

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=440571&postcount=1

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=442677&postcount=52

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=445214&postcount=57

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=445448&postcount=60

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=446400&postcount=121

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=446436&postcount=124

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=446499&postcount=127

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=446696&postcount=138

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=446788&postcount=146

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=446790&postcount=147

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=446911&postcount=149

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=447358&postcount=167

To the point …………

The Hyksos when studied through unbiased eyes where not Asiatic, Semite and or Eurasian but were Africans from Empires and civilizations in which the ruins, drawings and documentation can continue to be found in the Libyan deserts. These Africans are referred to as the Garamantes peoples who ruled much of the deserts of Libya and the Sudan hence the name Desert Kings.

There is information of the ancestors to the Garamantes that reveal they had Empires even when the Libyan and Sudan deserts where flourishing jungle with running water, alligators, fish, elephants etc, etc which even predates the Egyptian Neolithic period. There are rock drawings of war chariots that predate the so called Hyksos and proves the concept of the war chariot did not come from Palestine, Jerusalem down into Egypt but was actually the other way around that supports Africa as being the origin of the War Chariots.

Once more this information is not apart of mainstream media because a group of rich elitist Caucasians in the 1800s - 1900s sought to alienate the Negroid race from ancient history to make them more appealing for conquest and slave trading.

That’s my point.

The reason I am posting this is because a while ago I asked everyone why does mainstream historic Judaism move the time line of the Biblical Exodus up 100 years to the Hyksos expulsion when the Biblical Exodus aliens perfectly to the Egyptian Exodus of Akhetaten and the followers of Akhenaten who was a Pharaoh that re-established Egyptian monotheistic ideology, no one gave a true explanation or answer yet follow moving it up 100 years as if it was the gospel.

The reason Judaism does this is because elitists Caucasians have falsely established that the Hyksos were Semites, Asiatic or Eurasian. Basically they are playing as if the Hyksos were anything but African. This falsely aliens Caucasians only as being the Holy People.

The true story of the Hyksos can be found in the Egyptian deified story “The Legend of Horus of Behutet”. The actual non-deified historic events can be found on Stella’s, Tablets and Tomb Walls detailing Kamose and his pursuit of the so-called Asiatic of Avaris and then the Nubians.

How Kamose conquered Avaris and Nubia has been twisted into the Hyksos conquest of Egypt. In reality there never was a Hyksos conquest of Egypt because the Hyksos (African Tribe) were Egyptians. This history was covered-up by Egyptians because of the shame in reference to the 18th Dynasty in which African tribes of Egypt tried to hide from the historical records but hid the true history in the stories of the gods. The elitist Caucasians recognized the Egyptian rejection of the 18th Dynasty to be an opportunity to integrate the Caucasian into Egyptian History that allowed them to integrate into being the Holy People. The problem with this is much ancient African History has to be alienated from Africans and applied to Caucasians.

The Hyksos were not Asiatic, Semite or Eurasians, they were an African Tribe that made-up and were apart of the other African Tribes that made-up the Egyptian culture as a whole they were not foreigners from another land.

Peace and Power in Reading.

We all belong to GOD but only in Truth.

To the point …………

The Hyksos when studied through unbiased eyes where not Asiatic, Semite and or Eurasian but were Africans from Empires and civilizations in which the ruins, drawings and documentation can continue to be found in the Libyan deserts. These Africans are referred to as the Garamantes peoples who ruled much of the deserts of Libya and the Sudan hence the name Desert Kings.

There is information of the ancestors to the Garamantes that reveal they had Empires even when the Libyan and Sudan deserts where flourishing jungle with running water, alligators, fish, elephants etc, etc which even predates the Egyptian Neolithic period. There are rock drawings of war chariots that predate the so called Hyksos and proves the concept of the war chariot did not come from Palestine, Jerusalem down into Egypt but was actually the other way around that supports Africa as being the origin of the War Chariots.

Once more this information is not apart of mainstream media because a group of rich elitist Caucasians in the 1800s - 1900s sought to alienate the Negroid race from ancient history to make them more appealing for conquest and slave trading.
That’s my point.

The reason I am posting this is because a while ago I asked everyone why does mainstream historic Judaism move the time line of the Biblical Exodus up 100 years to the Hyksos expulsion when the Biblical Exodus aliens perfectly to the Egyptian Exodus of Akhetaten and the followers of Akhenaten who was a Pharaoh that re-established Egyptian monotheistic ideology, no one gave a true explanation or answer yet follow moving it up 100 years as if it was the gospel.

The reason Judaism does this is because elitists Caucasians have falsely established that the Hyksos were Semites, Asiatic or Eurasian. Basically they are playing as if the Hyksos were anything but African. This falsely aliens Caucasians only as being the Holy People.
The true story of the Hyksos can be found in the Egyptian deified story “The Legend of Horus of Behutet”. The actual non-deified historic events can be found on Stella’s, Tablets and Tomb Walls detailing Kamose and his pursuit of the so-called Asiatic of Avaris and then the Nubians.

How Kamose conquered Avaris and Nubia has been twisted into the Hyksos conquest of Egypt. In reality there never was a Hyksos conquest of Egypt because the Hyksos (African Tribe) were Egyptians. This history was covered-up by Egyptians because of the shame in reference to the 18th Dynasty in which African tribes of Egypt tried to hide from the historical records but hid the true history in the stories of the gods. The elitist Caucasians recognized the Egyptian rejection of the 18th Dynasty to be an opportunity to integrate the Caucasian into Egyptian History that allowed them to integrate into being the Holy People. The problem with this is much ancient African History has to be alienated from Africans and applied to Caucasians.

The Hyksos were not Asiatic, Semite or Eurasians, they were an African Tribe that made-up and were apart of the other African Tribes that made-up the Egyptian culture as a whole they were not foreigners from another land.
Peace and Power in Reading.

We all belong to GOD but only in Truth.




Excellent Music Producer, excellent work!
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

black perspective when you have not used black scholarship as your POR (e.g. point of reference)

Cheihk Anta Diop outlined this group in detail. Or do you even know who this great modern day Pharoah was?:SuN041:

A lot of Caucasoid historians use linguistics to establish that the Hyksos were different from the Egyptians. They try to say the Hyksos were Semites, Asiatic, Eurasian or Caucasoid; anything but African. They only define a Hyksos as having different linguistics and that’s what allows them to separate the Hyksos from Egyptians.

In debating with Jews and contemplating the idea I stumbled upon yet another piece of, in plane sight, evidence that refutes the Caucasian idea that Hyksos were a separate people from the African Tribal makeup that established the community of Egypt.

The Caucasians say the Hyksos ruled between 1663-1555, this was dynasty 15.

In studying this I have concluded that the Hyksos were nothing more then another African Tribe that made up the community of Egypt. Egypt went back and fourth between being ruled by different tribes and there is strong evidence that the so-called Hyksos also ruled in several other dynasties. One of the main things that allow the Caucasian historians to make the claim that Hyksos were foreigners is the naming convention, so I investigated this.

I found that the Caucasian version of Egyptian History is false. The Hyksos were Africans and they were even the descendants of previous Pharaohs.

We can see this in an obvious truth in the names of Egyptian Pharaohs as opposed to names of Hyksos Pharaohs. In the 6th dynasty 2345-2181 we have Egyptian Pharaohs with the exact same naming linguistics as Hyksos. One example is Pepi I and II of the 6th dynasty and then from the so-called Hyksos dynasty we have Apepi I and II. As you can see these names are identical in linguistics with the exception of the “A” but this is not nearly enough to establish any type of linguistic difference.

The exact same Egyptian glyphs are in both name rings with the exception of the “A” which in Egyptian is a setting figure with one hand towards its mouth. One could actually translate the Hyksos name as “in praise of Pepi”.

This is very strong proof that the Hyksos were not foreigners and no Jew or Caucasian Historian has yet been able to explain this simple review. We are accepting the distorted Caucasian history because Caucasians say so and none of us are standing up to challenge that statuesque.

So the next time you hear someone calling the Hyksos Semite, Asiatic or Eurasians you explain to them that the Hyksos were an African Peoples kin to the Pharaohs of the 6th Dynasty because they honored the Pharaohs of the 6th Dynasty through keeping their names alive as we clearly see in Pepi and Apepi.

Peace and Power in Reading.

black perspective when you have not used black scholarship as your POR (e.g. point of reference)

Cheihk Anta Diop outlined this group in detail. Or do you even know who this great modern day Pharoah was?:SuN041:

Hi Fine.


How can this post be from a black perspective …….

Because I am a black man.

I have most of Diops’ books. It is sometimes best to get more points of views because the most simplistic and obvious are usually the ones that can’t be debated down and or explained.

Peace and Power in Reading.

Hetep!
Firstly, Diop was married to a Tamahu, enjoyed their society and had mixed race children, the same things which destroyed the ancient civilizations of Ta-Merri and Ta-Seti. So Music Producers viewpoint is probably more black than Diop's. Diop wasn't writing for a black audience, and just like Dubois, he was trying to authenticate black humanity in the eyes of white intelligensia. (I know y'all scholar worshippers will be mad. Oh well! Its about liberation and most of y'all going out with the Tamahu anyway either cause u love his person or his ways.)
Secondly, the word used in the Mdw Ntr for the 'hyksos', was heka-khasut, or rulers of the hills, and before being applied to the group from Asia, it was applied to people to the south of Ta-Merri, the people of Ta-Nehesi and Ta-Seti. Black people.
Also, the black presence in the early middle east is clear, whether its the blackheaded people of Sumer, or the Accadians, etc. We know not just archaeologically, but through oral history that the Akan groups, yoruba etc which now inhabit west Afuraka, were once the inhabitants OF THE MIDDLE EAST, the same area where the heka khasut came from. Asian is a territorial designation, not a racial type.
Music Producer, I think u r right on point.
Hetep!

Hetep!
Firstly, Diop was married to a Tamahu, enjoyed their society and had mixed race children, the same things which destroyed the ancient civilizations of Ta-Merri and Ta-Seti. So Music Producers viewpoint is probably more black than Diop's. Diop wasn't writing for a black audience, and just like Dubois, he was trying to authenticate black humanity in the eyes of white intelligensia. (I know y'all scholar worshippers will be mad. Oh well! Its about liberation and most of y'all going out with the Tamahu anyway either cause u love his person or his ways.)
Secondly, the word used in the Mdw Ntr for the 'hyksos', was heka-khasut, or rulers of the hills, and before being applied to the group from Asia, it was applied to people to the south of Ta-Merri, the people of Ta-Nehesi and Ta-Seti. Black people.
Also, the black presence in the early middle east is clear, whether its the blackheaded people of Sumer, or the Accadians, etc. We know not just archaeologically, but through oral history that the Akan groups, yoruba etc which now inhabit west Afuraka, were once the inhabitants OF THE MIDDLE EAST, the same area where the heka khasut came from. Asian is a territorial designation, not a racial type.
Music Producer, I think u r right on point.
Hetep!

Thank you very much,

I also found the name Hyksos (heka-khasut) may have been a reference to “rulers of the pyramids”. The three hills glyph is suspected by some to be a representation of the pyramids on the Giza Plateau.

Some suspect that most of the mountains in the Old Testament were actually references to the Egyptian Pyramids.

This info comes from Tempest & Exodus by Ralph Ellis.

Hetep!
Firstly, Diop was married to a Tamahu, enjoyed their society and had mixed race children, the same things which destroyed the ancient civilizations of Ta-Merri and Ta-Seti. So Music Producers viewpoint is probably more black than Diop's. Diop wasn't writing for a black audience, and just like Dubois, he was trying to authenticate black humanity in the eyes of white intelligensia. (I know y'all scholar worshippers will be mad. Oh well! Its about liberation and most of y'all going out with the Tamahu anyway either cause u love his person or his ways.)
Secondly, the word used in the Mdw Ntr for the 'hyksos', was heka-khasut, or rulers of the hills, and before being applied to the group from Asia, it was applied to people to the south of Ta-Merri, the people of Ta-Nehesi and Ta-Seti. Black people.
Also, the black presence in the early middle east is clear, whether its the blackheaded people of Sumer, or the Accadians, etc. We know not just archaeologically, but through oral history that the Akan groups, yoruba etc which now inhabit west Afuraka, were once the inhabitants OF THE MIDDLE EAST, the same area where the heka khasut came from. Asian is a territorial designation, not a racial type.
Music Producer, I think u r right on point. Hetep!




Neb Akhu Ra,

Because of the above highlights, referencing the Producer's viewpoints etc..., I decided to reply in unison with you. I too give Music high accolades, as witnessed in my post #170. I Just wanted to call your attention to these facts, and suggest that like minded individuals begin to support one another, if we are to ever acquire mental liberation of our peoples of the diaspora.

Otherwise, what is the point of back and forth provocative dialogue, or, what is the point of a person or two simple agreeing with others, if we aren't going to come to some points of commonality and put to use what we agree on; this challenge is to say out loud that we are the next generation of scholars to keep the torch burning...or is it about simply prevailing in the discussion?Peace In Neb Akhu Ra.

And Music Producer, there is a larger part for you to play in this mental liberation of our people besides winning a discussion, my scholar brother friend.

Thanks Clyde,


And Music Producer, there is a larger part for you to play in this mental liberation of our people besides winning a discussion, my scholar brother friend.


That’s what I tried to do in this thread. All this thread was originally about was research but as you can see I lot of us black folks have serious trouble trying to formulate a history void of the Caucasian race.

Thanks Clyde,



That’s what I tried to do in this thread. All this thread was originally about was research but as you can see I lot of us black folks have serious trouble trying to formulate a history void of the Caucasian race.




Of course Producer, I just see a book out of this research that needs to be written...Peace In