View Full Version : Pan-African Thinking about being black.
dustyelbow 06-05-2006, 11:36 AM Black women fight stereotypes
African immigrants struggle to retain identity, U of A prof says
Chris Zdeb
The Edmonton Journal
Sunday, May 14, 2006
CREDIT: Shaughn Butts, the Journal
A recent survey completed by University of Alberta professor Phil Okeke-Ihejirika found discrimination to be an issue for most African women living in Alberta.
EDMONTON - Phil Okeke-Ihejirika knew she was an African, a Nigerian, an Ebo woman and tribal royalty, a university professor, wife and mother. But she didn't think about being black until she immigrated to Canada.
She came face to face with the importance of her skin colour after a couple of bus rides in Halifax when people got up and changed seats after she sat beside them.
"I thought, 'You should actually be happy to sit next to me. I'm a member of royalty,' " she said, chuckling as she recalled the memory Saturday for a roomful of community immigration services leaders meeting at the University of Alberta.
Okeke-Ihejirika, an associate professor of women's studies at the U of A, said her identity had always come from her ethnic group. Suddenly, it came from her skin colour. It's one of the challenges of being a black African woman in Canada, she said.
Fortunately, she still carries the cultural identity she was born with, which balances the way she is seen here. But her children, who were born here, do not have that.
"A black child, born here, is a minority from Day 1," she explained. "So it's not simply a matter of sending first-generation children to school and making sure they get a good education. They also need to know who they are after their parents are gone."
It's another challenge Okeke-Ihejirika identified in a four-year study in which she surveyed 876 African women between the ages of 15 and 78, living in Alberta, about their identity.
According to the last Canadian census, there were 22,955 African people living in Alberta in 2001, compared to 185,760 European immigrants and 163,075 Asian immigrants. Because there are so few African immigrants and not many whites work with them, the overwhelming perception of women from the Dark Continent is a stereotype.
"They have the idea that African women in veils who are Muslim and black have little or no education," says Okeke-Ihejirika. But the majority are high school or university graduates, although most work in low-status jobs that pay less than $20,000 a year.
The women surveyed said they felt discriminated against, which they described as "being seen as less ... or as other." The majority felt being black was the reason they were turned down for employment when looking for a job. They also identified discrimination because of accent, being African, being a woman or being a Muslim.
During a question period that followed Okeke-Ihejirika's presentation, Chinwe Okelu, who emigrated from Nigeria in the 1970s, said when he found that people here wouldn't accept the cultural identity he arrived with, he decided to try and fit in by focusing on what he had in common with Canadians, rather than on how he was different.
Okeke-Ihejirika agrees African immigrants should identify themselves as Canadian as well as African, but "being black seems to be an eternal thing. Black people who were born here and whose families have been here for more than a century still find it hard to move on," she says. "We need to realize that being black means you're really at the bottom of the racial hierarchy, but we must not let that keep us down.
Okeke-Ihejirika says African women must connect with one another to form a larger, more visible group to tackle the identity issue. They must also network with and learn from other groups, such as Caribbean women, who originally came here as caregivers and have worked themselves up the job ladder.
"To move on, to successfully lobby employers to give us a chance to get this wonderful Canadian experience, we have to work as a group," she said.
czdeb@thejournal.canwest.com
militant 06-05-2006, 01:31 PM Until African countries can industrialize their cultures, there will be no respect for the black man anywhere. Political demonstrations and civil rights battles will remain battles.
Bisabee 06-05-2006, 01:44 PM Black women fight stereotypes
African immigrants struggle to retain identity, U of A prof says
Chris Zdeb
The Edmonton Journal
Sunday, May 14, 2006
CREDIT: Shaughn Butts, the Journal
A recent survey completed by University of Alberta professor Phil Okeke-Ihejirika found discrimination to be an issue for most African women living in Alberta.
EDMONTON - Phil Okeke-Ihejirika knew she was an African, a Nigerian, an Ebo woman and tribal royalty, a university professor, wife and mother. But she didn't think about being black until she immigrated to Canada.
She came face to face with the importance of her skin colour after a couple of bus rides in Halifax when people got up and changed seats after she sat beside them.
"I thought, 'You should actually be happy to sit next to me. I'm a member of royalty,' " she said, chuckling as she recalled the memory Saturday for a roomful of community immigration services leaders meeting at the University of Alberta.
Okeke-Ihejirika, an associate professor of women's studies at the U of A, said her identity had always come from her ethnic group. Suddenly, it came from her skin colour. It's one of the challenges of being a black African woman in Canada, she said.
Fortunately, she still carries the cultural identity she was born with, which balances the way she is seen here. But her children, who were born here, do not have that.
"A black child, born here, is a minority from Day 1," she explained. "So it's not simply a matter of sending first-generation children to school and making sure they get a good education. They also need to know who they are after their parents are gone."
It's another challenge Okeke-Ihejirika identified in a four-year study in which she surveyed 876 African women between the ages of 15 and 78, living in Alberta, about their identity.
According to the last Canadian census, there were 22,955 African people living in Alberta in 2001, compared to 185,760 European immigrants and 163,075 Asian immigrants. Because there are so few African immigrants and not many whites work with them, the overwhelming perception of women from the Dark Continent is a stereotype.
"They have the idea that African women in veils who are Muslim and black have little or no education," says Okeke-Ihejirika. But the majority are high school or university graduates, although most work in low-status jobs that pay less than $20,000 a year.
The women surveyed said they felt discriminated against, which they described as "being seen as less ... or as other." The majority felt being black was the reason they were turned down for employment when looking for a job. They also identified discrimination because of accent, being African, being a woman or being a Muslim.
During a question period that followed Okeke-Ihejirika's presentation, Chinwe Okelu, who emigrated from Nigeria in the 1970s, said when he found that people here wouldn't accept the cultural identity he arrived with, he decided to try and fit in by focusing on what he had in common with Canadians, rather than on how he was different.
Okeke-Ihejirika agrees African immigrants should identify themselves as Canadian as well as African, but "being black seems to be an eternal thing. Black people who were born here and whose families have been here for more than a century still find it hard to move on," she says. "We need to realize that being black means you're really at the bottom of the racial hierarchy, but we must not let that keep us down.
Okeke-Ihejirika says African women must connect with one another to form a larger, more visible group to tackle the identity issue. They must also network with and learn from other groups, such as Caribbean women, who originally came here as caregivers and have worked themselves up the job ladder.
"To move on, to successfully lobby employers to give us a chance to get this wonderful Canadian experience, we have to work as a group," she said.
czdeb@thejournal.canwest.com
So this full-blooded Black African sister didn't even much identify with being Black until she moved to Canada. Hmm--This is why I would rather ally myself with ONLY those people of any complexion from any nation who oppose racism and/or "KNOW" they're under attack rather than with people who just have a similar complexion or who some consider "Black." As this article demonstrates, this full-blooded African sister would not have my back because her consciousness was/is not on that level whereas a biracial person who lives in the west would/might more likely have my back because they "KNOW" they're under attack from the racists due to their non-white blood.
militant 06-05-2006, 01:50 PM So this full-blooded Black African sister didn't even much identify with being Black until she moved to Canada. Hmm--This is why I would rather ally myself with ONLY those people of any complexion from any nation who oppose racism and/or "KNOW" they're under attack rather than with people who just have a similar complexion or who some consider "Black." As this article demonstrates, this full-blooded African sister would not have my back because her consciousness was/is not on that level whereas a biracial person who lives in the west would/might more likely have my back because they "KNOW" they're under attack from the racists due to their non-white blood.
Hi, I am "full blooded African". And sometimes, I am the one being dissapointed with people not having my back in the workplace.
Bisabee 06-05-2006, 02:15 PM Hi, I am "full blooded African". And sometimes, I am the one being dissapointed with people not having my back in the workplace.
Yes, I can absolutely tell you that many AAs would NOT have your back (just like the full-blooded African sister) because they don't know they're under attack, don't understand that you are under attack, and thus see no reason to have your back or connect with others who know they're under attack, or try to protect others who know they are under attack and others who oppose racism.
This is why I don't see the value at this crucial time of allying with ALL so-called "Black" people. Unfortunately, many so-called "Black" people are totally unaware that anything is going on--not to say we shouldn't keep trying to enlighten them.
I think those of ANY complexion/nationality who KNOW they are under attack and those who demonstrate that they oppose racism for whatever reason are the allies of value.
omowalejabali 06-05-2006, 03:55 PM Hi, I am "full blooded African". And sometimes, I am the one being dissapointed with people not having my back in the workplace.
here we go again....more "continental divide"
ever spend time on websites such as blacknet where AFRICANS commonly refer to african-americans as "westerners"...???
why should someone have YOUR back when they dont percieve you as having theirs?
what do you have in common rather than skin color (and even that varies among afrikans)???
oh...and by the way....I still dont see PAN AFRICANISTS organizing Black youth in this country except for during african liberation day or some other cultural festival or fundraiser...( and i used to belong to a "revoltutionary" pan africanist organization that is STILL "organizing" on COLLEGE CAMPUSES!)..
militant 06-05-2006, 04:17 PM here we go again....more "continental divide"
ever spend time on websites such as blacknet where AFRICANS commonly refer to african-americans as "westerners"...???
why should someone have YOUR back when they dont percieve you as having theirs?
what do you have in common rather than skin color (and even that varies among afrikans)???
oh...and by the way....I still dont see PAN AFRICANISTS organizing Black youth in this country except for during african liberation day or some other cultural festival or fundraiser...( and i used to belong to a "revoltutionary" pan africanist organization that is STILL "organizing" on COLLEGE CAMPUSES!)..
I think you misread my comment. "Full-Blooded African" was Bisabee's words.
Forgive my internet ignorace. Which website is blacknet? Do you have a link?
I was replying to a comment by Bisabee who basically implied she will rather from alliance with a mullatto than with an African. That hurts!!
The continental divide is a serious issue that seems to be getting worse by the day. It has become a vicious circle. The more either of us feel betrayed, the more withdrawn we become and severe contacts with each other. At the end of the day, we have to take a break and learn we are the ones losing from this petty squabble.
There is alot of mutual shame between ourselves because of 400 years of oppression on either side of the atlantic. We need to look beyond the shame and pull each other up.
omowalejabali 06-05-2006, 04:41 PM I think you misread my comment. "Full-Blooded African" was Bisabee's words.
Forgive my internet ignorace. Which website is blacknet? Do you have a link?
I was replying to a comment by Bisabee who basically implied she will rather from alliance with a mullatto than with an African. That hurts!!
The continental divide is a serious issue that seems to be getting worse by the day. It has become a vicious circle. The more either of us feel betrayed, the more withdrawn we become and severe contacts with each other. At the end of the day, we have to take a break and learn we are the ones losing from this petty squabble.
There is alot of mutual shame between ourselves because of 400 years of oppression on either side of the atlantic. We need to look beyond the shame and pull each other up.
I agree with everything stated but my own experience with how you have even come at me at times is part of the problem...
Some of us, whenever we encounter or interact with each other continue to perpetuate the same vicious cycle.
No rather than personalize this any further let me just say that the "native" "mainland" AFRIKAN need to TAKE THE INITIATIVE...
As Brother Malcolm taught "All Revolutions are based on Land"
We have NO specific LAND BASE to organize and mobilize towards unification.
Pan Africanist organizations have FAILED to include US in any kind of mass movement....and it's not for a lack of effort on the part of DuBois, Padmore, Malcom, Sylvestor Williams, CLR James, Garvey, et al...
If sister Bisabee decides to organize against capitalism and finds a "mulatto" ally who will stand WITH her while a "pure Black" african is standing on the side opposite her fight against capitalism...what do you expect????
to unite with modern day buffalo soldiers under the banner of "Minutemen" agains working class Mexians and Peasants from El Salvador???
I agree we need to "pull each other up" but on what basis and what is our COMMON AGENDA?
What AFRICAN organizations are pulling themselves up and including US, african-amerikans, in the process???...EN MASSE....
perhaps I missed something....
militant 06-05-2006, 04:56 PM I agree with everything stated but my own experience with how you have even come at me at times is part of the problem...
I have a terrible temper. I flip over minor things and end up regretting it. I still desire unity.
Some of us, whenever we encounter or interact with each other continue to perpetuate the same vicious cycle.
I am very well aware of that and its sad. Black people regardless of where they are from are generally the most confused. We are the only race who are not interested in learning the Economics of racial competition. Hence we insist on forming alliances with Latinos e.t.c.
No rather than personalize this any further let me just say that the "native" "mainland" AFRIKAN need to TAKE THE INITIATIVE...
100% agree. Those are my sentiments. Sadly, Many Mainland black people are interested in migrating to the western world, like the woman "of royalty" in the article.
As Brother Malcolm taught "All Revolutions are based on Land"
We have NO specific LAND BASE to organize and mobilize towards unification.
Again I agree. I am tackling this issue one step at a time by seeing what I can do for West Africa.
Pan Africanist organizations have FAILED to include US in any kind of mass movement....and it's not for a lack of effort on the part of DuBois, Padmore, Malcom, Sylvestor Williams, CLR James, Garvey, et al...
I am very very interested in forging alliances with African Americans (not the US) in efforts to help industrialize an African nation. Unfortunately I have not even found interested Africans from Africa. That is very sad indeed.
If sister Bisabee decides to organize against capitalism and finds a "mulatto" ally who will stand WITH her while a "pure Black" african is standing on the side opposite her fight against capitalism...what do you expect????
You have stated an instance which is permissible, but she generalized. That is the crux of my pointing out that I am actualy what she describes as a "full blooded african" who has a knowledge of global racial dynamics.
to unite with modern day buffalo soldiers under the banner of "Minutemen" agains working class Mexians and Peasants from El Salvador???
I agree we need to "pull each other up" but on what basis and what is our COMMON AGENDA?
Good question. That is where we Africans and African Americans have failed. The last Pan-Africanist meetings for global black peoples was ages ago. But I will assume that we will eventually settle for an Agenda of Economic Independence of the participants, not just the fraudulent "political independence" we are deluded with. Such an Economic independence will involve recreating or industrializing a free black nation.
What AFRICAN organizations are pulling themselves up and including US, african-amerikans, in the process???...EN MASSE....perhaps I missed something....
None. I believe we are still busy beating the dead dog of 'political liberation and integration". We need to create an organization which has an economic focus. We are neo-colonized into consumerism and economic exploitation, whether we are on the continent or in America. This leads to a cycle where we continually demand political leeway from an unwilling White power structure. We need to break the cycle of economic dependence first. It should be our priority. Untill blacks have a fully industrialized nation, we will not be respected anywhere in the world. Not that I care about respect from other races, but for those who care.
omowalejabali 06-05-2006, 05:17 PM I have a terrible temper. I flip over minor things and end up regretting it. I still desire unity.
I am very well aware of that and its sad. Black people regardless of where they are from are generally the most confused. We are the only race who are not interested in learning the Economics of racial competition. Hence we insist on forming alliances with Latinos e.t.c.
100% agree. Those are my sentiments. Sadly, Many Mainland black people are interested in migrating to the western world, like the woman "of royalty" in the article.
Again I agree. I am tackling this issue one step at a time by seeing what I can do for West Africa.
I am very very interested in forging alliances with African Americans (not the US) in efforts to help industrialize an African nation. Unfortunately I have not even found interested Africans from Africa. That is very sad indeed.
You have stated an instance which is permissible, but she generalized. That is the crux of my pointing out that I am actualy what she describes as a "full blooded african" who has a knowledge of global racial dynamics.
Good question. That is where we Africans and African Americans have failed. The last Pan-Africanist meetings for global black peoples was ages ago. But I will assume that we will eventually settle for an Agenda of Economic Independence of the participants, not just the fraudulent "political independence" we are deluded with. Such an Economic independence will involve recreating or industrializing a free black nation.
None. I believe we are still busy beating the dead dog of 'political liberation and integration". We need to create an organization which has an economic focus. We are neo-colonized into consumerism and economic exploitation, whether we are on the continent or in America. This leads to a cycle where we continually demand political leeway from an unwilling White power structure. We need to break the cycle of economic dependence first. It should be our priority. Untill blacks have a fully industrialized nation, we will not be respected anywhere in the world. Not that I care about respect from other races, but for those who care.
hold up.....I agree 99.9% but that .1% can pose some major problems...when you state, "hence we insist on forming alliances with Latinos e.t.c"
See, it like shaking hands in agreement but you punch in the face or throw a jab below the belt while extending your hand..
thing very carefully about my position in los angeles, with a declining Black population...someone who led a divestment movement and formed a "Third World Coalition" in the 80s among college students who NOW, PRESENTLY are the LEADERS of my local body politic. After working 20-25 years ago with these Latino, Filipino, Native Amrican and white socialists in a variety of causes ranging from apartheid, us intervention, affirmative action and set up student support groups and community programs with these "allies"
you are telling me I dont need them or criticizing me for aligning myself with them even though I can (and have) point to a number of programs/organizations which have helped to not only EMPOWER a declining Black population, but "Third World" "people of color" in particular??
Are you aware that must of the African anti-colonial movement was sparked though COALITION BUILDING as evidenced by the non-aligned movement and the Bandung Conference?
Rather that align myself with "Latinos" many of which are even darker skinned than I am what do you propose? Joining "Black" minutemen in uniting with white racists against "latinos"???
come on now...
omowalejabali 06-05-2006, 05:20 PM note:
when speaking before about "moving forward" and not looking back...i mean moving from folks who are commiting political suicide in their go it alone strategy or their unite with the "white right"...
to me...these are equally disastrous...only question in my mind is which would lead to sudden death and which would sustain a protracted struggle...
Bisabee 06-05-2006, 06:11 PM I think you misread my comment. "Full-Blooded African" was Bisabee's words.
Forgive my internet ignorace. Which website is blacknet? Do you have a link?
I was replying to a comment by Bisabee who basically implied she will rather from alliance with a mullatto than with an African. That hurts!!
The continental divide is a serious issue that seems to be getting worse by the day. It has become a vicious circle. The more either of us feel betrayed, the more withdrawn we become and severe contacts with each other. At the end of the day, we have to take a break and learn we are the ones losing from this petty squabble.
There is alot of mutual shame between ourselves because of 400 years of oppression on either side of the atlantic. We need to look beyond the shame and pull each other up.
Brother, I didn't mean to hurt you in any way, so I apologize. Please forgive me.
I used the term "full-blooded African" in response to the article which indicated that the full-blooded" Black/African woman only came to the full realization that she was "Black" only after she arrived in Canada. This underscores the fact that "Black" is a social and political construct.
We have several people on this site who argue vehemently that the closer one of us is to being "full-blooded" Black, then the Blacker we are. According to those who take that position, I am not as "Black" as a "full-blooded" African person because I mentioned that I have a white grandparent. So when I read the article, it occurred to me that it was ironic that I, who they would claim, am not as "Black" as she is, yet I've known I'm Black all of my life, whereas she only fully realized that as an adult.
Apparently she would pass all of their Black litmus tests easily and instantly whereas I and my ancestors who have suffered terribly because of our Black blood must argue to convince other Black people that we are just as Black. Imagine that.
In this struggle, the AMOUNT of "Black" blood a person has is NOT nearly as important--in my opinion--as their "knowing" they are under constant attack and knowing the reason why they're under attack, and acting/behaving accordingly to promote their interests. I do hope that that Africans on the continent know this and behave accordingly.
Many white allies ARE Black. I'm not sure why so many Black people think that ONLY Black people can be Black allies. IMO, any of us would be foolish not to welcome any ally who proves to be SERIOUS.
Also, I'm not sure what you consider a mulatto person to be, but a mulatto person is considered a Black person in this country.
militant 06-06-2006, 08:02 AM There can be no brown-black coalition on the long term. Each group develops of sense of survival given the adeqaute numbers, crowd mentality and opportunity. The rich latinos are about to start a latino bank for latinos only. Enjoy the alliance that you have now. But dont plan your long term goals for the next generation of black people on it.
hold up.....I agree 99.9% but that .1% can pose some major problems...when you state, "hence we insist on forming alliances with Latinos e.t.c"
See, it like shaking hands in agreement but you punch in the face or throw a jab below the belt while extending your hand..
thing very carefully about my position in los angeles, with a declining Black population...someone who led a divestment movement and formed a "Third World Coalition" in the 80s among college students who NOW, PRESENTLY are the LEADERS of my local body politic. After working 20-25 years ago with these Latino, Filipino, Native Amrican and white socialists in a variety of causes ranging from apartheid, us intervention, affirmative action and set up student support groups and community programs with these "allies"
you are telling me I dont need them or criticizing me for aligning myself with them even though I can (and have) point to a number of programs/organizations which have helped to not only EMPOWER a declining Black population, but "Third World" "people of color" in particular??
Are you aware that must of the African anti-colonial movement was sparked though COALITION BUILDING as evidenced by the non-aligned movement and the Bandung Conference?
Rather that align myself with "Latinos" many of which are even darker skinned than I am what do you propose? Joining "Black" minutemen in uniting with white racists against "latinos"???
come on now...
militant 06-06-2006, 08:14 AM Brother, I didn't mean to hurt you in any way, so I apologize. Please forgive me.
I used the term "full-blooded African" in response to the article which indicated that the full-blooded" Black/African woman only came to the full realization that she was "Black" only after she arrived in Canada. This underscores the fact that "Black" is a social and political construct.
Some Africans have a nasty habit of being "color blind". Thats why Africa is the basket case it is in now. The rich few will sell out the rest to the West for riches.
We have several people on this site who argue vehemently that the closer one of us is to being "full-blooded" Black, then the Blacker we are. According to those who take that position, I am not as "Black" as a "full-blooded" African person because I mentioned that I have a white grandparent.
Haha...we all used to think that way in Africa too. We had "Half-casts", "Quarter casts", depending on how recent was your white ancestry. But then there wasnt any obsessions with color as some people came naturally light skinned in Africa. Now, I just see black, no qualifiers.
So when I read the article, it occurred to me that it was ironic that I, who they would claim, am not as "Black" as she is, yet I've known I'm Black all of my life, whereas she only fully realized that as an adult.
Apparently she would pass all of their Black litmus tests easily and instantly whereas I and my ancestors who have suffered terribly because of our Black blood must argue to convince other Black people that we are just as Black. Imagine that.
She is probably more tribalistic than pro-black. It will amaze you the arguments I get into people who will defend their tribes but will see no reason to defend black people in the same situation.
In this struggle, the AMOUNT of "Black" blood a person has is NOT nearly as important--in my opinion--as their "knowing" they are under constant attack and knowing the reason why they're under attack, and acting/behaving accordingly to promote their interests. I do hope that that Africans on the continent know this and behave accordingly.
Some of us are beginning to wake up to this. But we still need to develop a group mentality that is xenophobic to non-black people.
Many white allies ARE Black. I'm not sure why so many Black people think that ONLY Black people can be Black allies. IMO, any of us would be foolish not to welcome any ally who proves to be SERIOUS.
Let me give you a nugget. No white person will ever be a strong enough ally to destroy the source of his own survival. Those allies of yours are allies of convenience. Ideally, we must develop on our own. The only time I will deal with a white man is if we BOTH have to make concessions that will lead to the economic and political independence of my people. Otherwise, I will not align with them in my struggles.
Also, I'm not sure what you consider a mulatto person to be, but a mulatto person is considered a Black person in this country.
Given their heritage, they face a choice, and if they make the right choice, they are black.
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