Hello Everyone,

It has been suggested that Christianity is under attack, an avid attack, in this forum. My question is sincere, as I have not seen this and would like the opinions of those who frequent here to share what your perception is, regarding this topic.

My whole mind-set, in creating this forum, was to provide a place where everyone is welcome, where none are set up and/or apart, a place of inclusion if you will. In the description for this forum, no mention of any faith/religion is made and those who don't believe at all are encouraged to participate. Well aware that there are many different religions and faiths, it was my hope that this forum, "Spirituality and Religion," would allow us to remove some of the barriers. Barriers, in my opinion, that has kept us from sharing, together, the things we believe individually.

I do recognize there are an overwhelming number of posts regarding Islam, but I thought that was simply because Members chose to share that information. I don't think posting one's belief/questions, in and of itself, implies an attack on other faiths and religions. Am I wrong?

Am I being naive? Is Christianity being attacked here (or anyone's faith, religion, sexual preference, color, etc.) and I don't even see it? Would you prefer having separate forums for all different faiths, religions and denominations?

Looking forward to your responses.

Destee

I didn't know it was that serious. I haven't seen anything that so incriminating.. only educating. So if someone complains about posting of other religions.. giving them a broader view on things.. and they choose to keep a closed mind.. Well thats not our problem... I'm ready to learn!!!!

I like the way you handle things though!! Momma Destee!!! Keep up the great work!!!

Shaneak

Thank you Shaneak for responding.

I was hoping I'd get some responses from those who felt it is being attacked (though I do appreciate your response, don't get me wrong!).

Religion is probably one of the most difficult topics to discuss publicly, as most everyone feels passionately about theirs and may oftentimes be conversing with those of opposing views.

Anyway ... this forum is about discussion and as long as we do it with respect and decency ... I don't have a problem with it.

Destee

Thanks Kemetstry, Sherykah and Shaneak for responding.

I was hoping I'd get some responses from those who felt it is being attacked (though I do appreciate you all responding too, don't get me wrong!).

Religion is probably one of the most difficult topics to discuss publicly, as most everyone feels passionately about theirs and may oftentimes be conversing with those of opposing views.

Anyway ... this forum is about discussion and as long as we do it with respect and decency ... I don't have a problem with it.

Destee

This forum does appear to be dominated by Islamic and Egyptian beliefs. However, that's because a Christian might feel intimidated about posting in this atomosphere for fear of being drawn into senseless debates. There's just something about the name Jesus, that brings a rise out of some people like you would not believe. If you shake a hornet's nest you are bound to be stung even if you shook it unintentionally.

But then as you said, as long as everyone treat each other with respect, everyone should be able to get along. I've been in a heated/friendly discussion with :argue: Sekhemu but we respected each other...thus I do believe if I lived in his city, he would take me out for a cup of coffee. We've agreed to disagree and still remain on speaking terms...at least for now anyway...you know how fickle men can be sometimes. :roll:

Yall get an Amen Choir on this one. I aint Christian but I feel ya.

I don't know if christianity is being attacked, but I do think it's being challenged. Many brothas and sistahs have come to the realization that our ancestors are very important to us, and that their own traditional beliefs were stripped away from them.

Moreover, there has been a thorough indoctrination of blacks on the parts of whites to embrace a religion based on their(white) interpretatio. Hence in most black churches we find a white Jesus. So that when many of the people on this board he're Jesus, it conjures....no pun intended, an image of a white man. To me this image represents an archetype of racial superiority. An image burned into the minds of black people since slavery.

I don't know if christianity is being attacked, but I do think it's being challenged. Many brothas and sistahs have come to the realization that our ancestors are very important to us, and that their own traditional beliefs were stripped away from them.

Moreover, there has been a thorough indoctrination of blacks on the parts of whites to embrace a religion based on their(white) interpretatio. Hence in most black churches we find a white Jesus. So that when many of the people on this board he're Jesus, it conjures....no pun intended, an image of a white man. To me this image represents an archetype of racial superiority. An image burned into the minds of black people since slavery.

You made some very strong points on how many blacks feel about christianity. This to me, is especially sad because Jesus was not a white man but a man of color. How could He have lived among Egyptians for 3 years, in hiding if He had been a white man? He and His parents (Mary & Joseph) would have easily been discovered and returned to Herod for torment and death. Here in America the Egyptians are portrayed as white people along with their white Jesus. A study of Egyptian history proves otherwise, yet programs like National Geographic will continue to portray these great people as caucasians :uhoh: . Whites are a people that MUST have everything look like them or close to them in order to accept it. I wonder how many whites would still love Jesus Christ if they found out He was black.

Unfortunately, many blacks will never know that the Egyptian people were NEVER white people but black people. They will never know that most of the people in the bible are black people. Many don't even realize that Israel is part of the continent of Africa. The white man wants the world to believe, he "fathered" civilization in the land of Africa...how unfortunate that so many blacks are turning away from something (the bible) that they have such rich history in...very unfortunate. But for those :grouphug: who have look past the barriers of race to embrace the truth which in and of itself bears no color, salvation through Jesus :jumping: (no matter what His color) is not nor ever will be in vain or in chains.

Joyce

I Don't Feel As If Any Religion Is Being Attack . I Enjoy Reading About Diffrent Culture / Religion, This Is The Only Way One Can OverStand Other Culture / Religion / Belief . For I Reads El' Holy Torah And El's Holy Quraan And The Dead Sea Scroll Etc.. To Have A Better OverStanding Of Ones Belief ..To OverStand The Almighty Is To OverStand The Positive And Negative Of Every Individual ; You Cannot Love The Creator If You Do Not Accept The Postive And Negative In Every Individual ; You Are Not Applying The Principle Of The Creator In You . Because Obviously He Accepts The Good AndBad From Us . Can I Get A Amen / Ameen :read:

Amen and Ameen both....


Much Peace,
Akilah :peace:

Am I being naive? Is Christianity being attacked here (or anyone's faith, religion, sexual preference, color, etc.) and I don't even see it? Would you prefer having separate forums for all different faiths, religions and denominations?

i see some "attacks" and challenges to Christianity, Islam, "Traditional African Beliefs" and others posted here and i love it. Separate forums would not have the same educating effect. This is a great forum, not for the easily offended, nor the ones basking in the thought that their particular way is the only way or the superior way.....i admit that some of the contributions are way too verbose for me and some way over my head and i just don't read them or under nor over stand them......and i add, many of them i just our right disagree with.....

The forum is perfect the way it is for me....and my curiosities and my seeking to better myself in my "way of life", Religion and my quest to better see where we came from, where we are now and what the future holds.....

Destee, thanks to you and to all the contributors, both the arrogant ones and the humble ones the ones who think they've got all the answers and salvation sewed up through whatever means and the ones who seek to go upon the straight path......

i've been blessed to get educated here about some things i would have had to have labored longer and harder to find and perhaps would have missed altogether or had to pay a "pretty penny" for...

This is a marvelous university setting...................


Peace and Blessings

I haven't seen any attacks, per se (in the short time that I've been here), but I do see challenges being made. It's all natural, though. People question what they do not agree with. The basic mindset of most of us seems to be "Convince me. Show me proof." I'm a student of comparative religion, anyway, so all of this is fascinating to me.

I'm new here myself....I think the reason some chritians may feel christianity is under attack is the simple fact that this is the reverse of most black message bords. Normally the majority are Christian and that can lead to lashing out at non-Christians. They may simply be fearing reprisals from those situations. This seems to be a very non-confrontational board so far. Just good debate. I am not heavy into religion at all but will reccomend this place to a freind who is!!

I am a Christian and have a great love for the truth. I also believe that the wicked one, satan, finds ways to cause strife and discord among people and one way is through religion.

I do not accept Islam and never will. That is my right. There are things that I do not agree with and I hate for things to come down to arguments and attacks.

There are many Muslims on my job. Basically we are there to work. I have been invited to attend Muslim services but declined. There is only one walk for me and that is being a Christian. And I respect a person's right to choose their faith, but I do not like the attacks against Christianity by some blacks in which it is called "the white man's religion". The white man doesn't have a thing to do with what I believe. I do not have any pictures or refuse to buy any books deplicting a white Jesus, especially him with long hair and feminine looks.

It does not matter to me the color of Christ's skin when he was on earth. I don't waste my time in research and debates over this issue. Those melanin topics I avoid, because I feel that blacks are trying to promote superiority, and from the things I've learned, God made us ALL in his image. So no race is superior over the other and we need to get this out of our mind.

We are taught that God is no respecter of person. He don't care about your skin color, your bank account, your accomplishments, etc...you are nothing but a mere speck.

I've been taught to love people. And there are Christians from every racial background. To hate a white person is to hate a white sister or brother in Christ. I'm aware of the history, but I don't live in the past. I'm looking forward to the day when there will be total peace and plan to be a part of it.

I question how some Muslims are mean and violent, like the ones we are fighting against. And then I know some Muslims who are peaceful. Also, some who call themselves Christians, their despicable acts. What comes to mind is the way the Iraqi prisoners have been treated. There was one person who called himself a Christian, but he felt that he was more compelled to obey the orders of his superior officer than God. The Muslims are showing this as if to say "Now, this is what Christians do; they are sex perverts, etc."

I do not feel embarrassed by so called Christians like these. They do not represent me. In the bible, we are told that not everyone who says Lord, Lord will inherit His kingdom. God knows who belongs to Him.

We also have some preachers who have gained great wealth from cheating and trickery. God knows who they are and he will deal with them. God knows about the preachers who say one thing and do just the opposite. And He knows what those soldiers were doing to those prisoners and if the law of the land doesn't handle it properly, He is the Final Judge.

Sometimes there is an inner war among Christians. Some Christians attack others. Nothing was more discouraging to me than a woman making snide remarks about the slit in my skirt and what was the proper length for a slit. Also, she offered to sew my slits together. In other words, she was trying to dress me in a way that she would approve.

We also have those Christians who think salvation is based on works. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe in salvation based on field service, meeting attendance and how many magazines you place. Yet, some of them have mistreated other brothers and sisters if they think that person is not doing as much as them.

There are all these denominations in Christianity. They have 1,001 manmade rules so to speak, but none of them have anything to do with the truth.

God takes us at face value. He accepts us individually. The actions of others can reflect on the whole body of Christians, but God judges us individually.

I do not know a lot about Islam, but I know enough that I don't wish to convert. This is just an honest admission and was not meant to be offensive. And a Muslim has the right to say that he or she do not wish to convert to Christianity.

The way I follow is true and real because I've been blessed so many times by God. I have peace and love for others. I cannot bear hatred for the white people because my God is one of LOVE. There are people who I'm not overly fond of because of their actions, but that includes just as many blacks.

God has blessed me in so many ways because I put my trust in Him and not in any man. When it comes down to my employment, it is Him I trust for a job.

Through Christ, I'm a free woman. I can have whatever I wish that's in the Father's will. And no white man or woman can stop me from having things. That's why I speak strongly when some of us feel that whites are superior to us or some feel that they can't have this or that "because the white man don't want me to have it". This is not the teaching in Christianity.

When we speak these negative words, they will become true. If I felt that the white woman didn't want me to have a nice job or home, I would be defeated and act on that. I wouldn't try to work at certain places because "the white man doesn't want me there". Christianity has freed me from that thinking. And I've seen the results of it.

Christianity has shown me that we are not in a battle with the white man. We are in battle with evil spirit forces. And in the end, those forces will be destroyed (Satan and his demons).

Therefore, my love of God prevents me from getting into the debates about melanin, etc. Because in the end, melanin will not protect one from His wrath. We should be more focused on betterment of our lives, protecting our children, and respecting our fellow humans. Even if we have melanin, we still get sick. Melanin is not stopping one for getting HIV/AIDS.

Black people, we do not need to feed into these topics to make ourselves superior. God knows our struggles and only HE will give relief. If we keep on with the separatist attitudes, He cannot bless us.

I view myself as a beautiful human who happens to be descendant from the black race. I don't need the approval or acceptance of man.

Sometimes people leave Christianity for the way they were treated. I've been treated badly by socalled Christians, but like I said above, God knows who belongs to Him. Not everyone with that title of Christian will inherit His Kingdom.

I respect the rights of others, but I do not wish them to try to force their beliefs on me and likewise I do the same. I do not get into the bible thumping mode. If you ask me questions, you get answers, but I don't force myself on anyone.

I have been told, "don't talk religion to me" especially when I was reading my bible or Christian books during breaktime.

I will continue to be the best I can be and bear no malice towards anyone.

Excellent post...

Much Thanks,
Akilah :spinstar:

This forum has been more positive than other groups that I was in. I've been in forums where Christians were attacked brutally and it was just a literal "bloodbath" in there.

There are sensitive topics in here, but I try not to get offended. I believe we should accept others right to worship as they please or to marry or date whomever. I don't agree with same-sex relationships, but I will not stop anyone from doing so just like I wouldn't dare interfere with a Muslim's or Buddhist's right to their worship.

We can disagree but respect each other.

This forum has been more positive than other groups that I was in. I've been in forums where Christians were attacked brutally and it was just a literal "bloodbath" in there.

There are sensitive topics in here, but I try not to get offended. I believe we should accept others right to worship as they please or to marry or date whomever. I don't agree with same-sex relationships, but I will not stop anyone from doing so just like I wouldn't dare interfere with a Muslim's or Buddhist's right to their worship.

We can disagree but respect each other.

Amen Sista...Agree to disagree. When looking at some of the titles to some of the threads here at this forum, you would think that people are on some kind of "Jesus hating" frenzy here. Just in counting, I counted over 50 (there's more) threads with some type of negativity towards Christianity...not Budda or Jehovah's Witnesses but Christianity...hmmm. Now I could post a 1000 posts a week in defense, but why should I??? Christ is Almighty and He definitely doesn't need me to defend Him. If He can bear with them a little while longer, why shouldn't I??? So I defend my FAITH in Him instead.

I don't know if christianity is being attacked, but I do think it's being challenged. Many brothas and sistahs have come to the realization that our ancestors are very important to us, and that their own traditional beliefs were stripped away from them.

Moreover, there has been a thorough indoctrination of blacks on the parts of whites to embrace a religion based on their(white) interpretatio. Hence in most black churches we find a white Jesus. So that when many of the people on this board he're Jesus, it conjures....no pun intended, an image of a white man. To me this image represents an archetype of racial superiority. An image burned into the minds of black people since slavery.

That image is NOT burned into my mind and I can speak for many other black people. This is YOUR way of attacking Christianity and you know it!

I don't care about Islam and I don't take time to read about it because in my heart I know that my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ lives! I've read some things about Islam that convinced me it is not for me. And there is no way, even under the sentence of putting me to death, that I would ever renounce Jesus.

I have NEVER seen Jesus. I would assume that he was not Caucasian. And even if He was, He is still my Lord and Savior.

This is one thing that non-Christians bring up. And why do you still reflect on slavery? According to my calendar it's 2004 and not 1804. Slavery is over! (Well, the African Muslims are still enslaving people in Africa, but in the US I have the right to work wherever I please. I can live wherever and shop wherever. There is no "white's only" water fountains and establishments, unless you are in KKK territory. And those sorry fools - I wouldn't want to drink in their areas - they are so full of hate).

In Christ I am FREE. No white man prevents me from having what I want. The sad thing is that black people are conditioned to be victims. Well, this black woman is a VICTOR. And there is no picture in my home or at my church deplicting Christ in any form. No "Last Supper" painting and also it's not in my bible.

So, Sekhemu, where did you come up with the statement about black churches?

That image is NOT burned into my mind and I can speak for many other black people. This is YOUR way of attacking Christianity and you know it!

I don't care about Islam and I don't take time to read about it because in my heart I know that my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ lives! I've read some things about Islam that convinced me it is not for me. And there is no way, even under the sentence of putting me to death, that I would ever renounce Jesus.

I have NEVER seen Jesus. I would assume that he was not Caucasian. And even if He was, He is still my Lord and Savior.

This is one thing that non-Christians bring up. And why do you still reflect on slavery? According to my calendar it's 2004 and not 1804. Slavery is over! (Well, the African Muslims are still enslaving people in Africa, but in the US I have the right to work wherever I please. I can live wherever and shop wherever. There is no "white's only" water fountains and establishments, unless you are in KKK territory. And those sorry fools - I wouldn't want to drink in their areas - they are so full of hate).

In Christ I am FREE. No white man prevents me from having what I want. The sad thing is that black people are conditioned to be victims. Well, this black woman is a VICTOR. And there is no picture in my home or at my church deplicting Christ in any form. No "Last Supper" painting and also it's not in my bible.

So, Sekhemu, where did you come up with the statement about black churches?
If you think I'm attacking your religion, then perhaps you have a thin skin and believe religion is above criticism. Nor did I say this image was "burnt" lol into your mind.

Where are you coming from with this diatribe about Islam and muslims, talk to Aqil about that, 'cause I'm not muslim :)

Why do I and others reflect on slavery? That's a very interesting question, particuliarly when It comes from black christians. Nobody ever ask jews why they commemorate the passover. A tradition that they've practiced for over 3000 years. Yet black and white christians will tell black people to forget about slavery! hmmmmmm!

So if jews aren't going to forget what happened to them why should I forget what happen to my people.

Where did I come up with this statement about black churches? from Experience. Grew up in the black church!

But I ain't mad atcha :grouphug:

Sure christianity is being attacked. Because if you are a christian like I am than you know there is no comprising the truth. There is the truth and there are lies. This is what the nonbeliever hates about christians, our unwillingness not to give in to someone's misguided and unsubstantiated notions from some ancient esoteric or dead cult for the sake of venting hostility to make up for their inadequecies or in the name of tolerance. True christians understand their source and know it can never be man made. True christians stand on the truth boldly yet with humility. True christians have the vision of discernment to see the enemy coming from it's origin. True christians know that the sons of Ismael were not the promised of God but were created by a Mother and Father who momentarily lost their faith and patiences in God and thought they could solve their dilemma by man made means. True christians know the sons of Ismael have God's favor. True christian know that the sons of Egypt were a blessed people who knew the God of Abram but turned the faces away from God and were severely punished but had it not been for Ismael would have been completely wiped out. True christians know that Jesus knew the sons of Isaac would not accept him and would seek to have him destroyed yet the sons of Isaac still have Gods favor. True christians know that the sons of the orient would follow an eloquent leader who would ultimately never found enlightenment. True christians follow the first commandment. True christians know the time they tried to conquer the world by means of force. In doing so christians have enslaved, conquered, killed, raped, plundered, lied and committed every possible sin in the name of God and Jesus. A true christian knows he is a sinner an must be in constant repentance. True christians are not afraid to speak the truth even if it's about themselves. There is no polite way to tell the truth this is why so many people hate christians, because so many people can face the truth.

Peace

Radical Faith

Sure christianity is being attacked. Because if you are a christian like I am than you know there is no comprising the truth. There is the truth and there are lies. This is what the nonbeliever hates about christians, our unwillingness not to give in to someone's misguided and unsubstantiated notions from some ancient esoteric or dead cult for the sake of venting hostility to make up for their inadequecies or in the name of tolerance. True christians understand their source and know it can never be man made. True christians stand on the truth boldly yet with humility. True christians have the vision of discernment to see the enemy coming from it's origin. True christians know that the sons of Ismael were not the promised of God but were created by a Mother and Father who momentarily lost their faith and patiences in God and thought they could solve their dilemma by man made means. True christians know the sons of Ismael have God's favor. True christian know that the sons of Egypt were a blessed people who knew the God of Abram but turned the faces away from God and were severely punished but had it not been for Ismael would have been completely wiped out. True christians know that Jesus knew the sons of Isaac would not accept him and would seek to have him destroyed yet the sons of Isaac still have Gods favor. True christians know that the sons of the orient would follow an eloquent leader who would ultimately never found enlightenment. True christians follow the first commandment. True christians know the time they tried to conquer the world by means of force. In doing so christians have enslaved, conquered, killed, raped, plundered, lied and committed every possible sin in the name of God and Jesus. A true christian knows he is a sinner an must be in constant repentance. True christians are not afraid to speak the truth even if it's about themselves. There is no polite way to tell the truth this is why so many people hate christians, because so many people can face the truth.

Peace

Radical Faith


THis is almost laughable. last time I checked it was the native american who suffered an almost copplete genocide.... at the hands of christians. So much for God loves everyone

Sure christianity is being attacked. Because if you are a christian like I am than you know there is no comprising the truth. There is the truth and there are lies. This is what the nonbeliever hates about christians, our unwillingness not to give in to someone's misguided and unsubstantiated notions from some ancient esoteric or dead cult for the sake of venting hostility to make up for their inadequecies or in the name of tolerance. True christians understand their source and know it can never be man made. True christians stand on the truth boldly yet with humility. True christians have the vision of discernment to see the enemy coming from it's origin. True christians know that the sons of Ismael were not the promised of God but were created by a Mother and Father who momentarily lost their faith and patiences in God and thought they could solve their dilemma by man made means. True christians know the sons of Ismael have God's favor. True christian know that the sons of Egypt were a blessed people who knew the God of Abram but turned the faces away from God and were severely punished but had it not been for Ismael would have been completely wiped out. True christians know that Jesus knew the sons of Isaac would not accept him and would seek to have him destroyed yet the sons of Isaac still have Gods favor. True christians know that the sons of the orient would follow an eloquent leader who would ultimately never found enlightenment. True christians follow the first commandment. True christians know the time they tried to conquer the world by means of force. In doing so christians have enslaved, conquered, killed, raped, plundered, lied and committed every possible sin in the name of God and Jesus. A true christian knows he is a sinner an must be in constant repentance. True christians are not afraid to speak the truth even if it's about themselves. There is no polite way to tell the truth this is why so many people hate christians, because so many people can face the truth.

Peace

Radical Faith

Just a few questions--

What's the opposite of a true Christian, a false one?

What is the difference between a true Christian and a Christian?

Do you think that ALL nonbelievers in Jesus "hate" Christians? If so, what's your proof?

How do you know the difference between the truth and a lie?

Can you provide me with an example of an "esoteric or dead cult"?

How does a "true" Christian stand on the truth boldly yet with humility? Can you provide me with an example of this in discussions that are taking place in this thread?

What is the first commandment that "true" Christians follow and did you bear witness to all of them doing this?

Can you provide me with examples of "true" Christians being in constant repentence and for what?

Do you know for a fact that "true" Christians aren't afraid to speak the truth, even about themselves?

Why do you believe there is no "polite" way to tell the truth?

Why do you believe that Christians are hated because of someone's inability to face the truth?

No disrespect is intended by my questions only my meager attempt at seeking a deeper understanding behind your words.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

THis is almost laughable. last time I checked it was the native american who suffered an almost copplete genocide.... at the hands of christians. So much for God loves everyone

Oh brother! Indians suffered tragically under the hand of greedy white men. God's love did not play a part in their horrendous acts. My goodness!

Christian = My God Is Bigger And Better Than You God , And If You Don't Believe Accept My So - Called Truth Your Not Save And Your Going To Burn In The Lake Of Fire . <<< Now This Part Is Really Funny >
Christian = Fear Of Being Question , Fear Of Knowing The Real Story .
Christian = Know Nothing Of The Language Of There Socalled God Yashua , Oh Sorry Jesus ..
Nubian Christian = Willing To Accepting A 2000 Years Religion That Was Giving To Them By There Slave Master , And Give Of 1000's Years Of Their True History / Culture , And Will Attack Any Of The Nubians Brother & Sister Here In The West For There Slave Master Religion Call Christianity .
Sure Christianity Is Being Attack <<<<<< Laughinggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg gggggggggggggg :cry:

Oh brother! Indians suffered tragically under the hand of greedy white men. God's love did not play a part in their horrendous acts. My goodness!


Yes greedy white men who forced their ways and religion on those that were not eliminated. The same white men that forced us to pray like they did, but refuse to teach us how to read their religions book called the bible during slavery

Oh brother! Indians suffered tragically under the hand of greedy white men. God's love did not play a part in their horrendous acts. My goodness!


Joyce, NNQueen asked a few very interesting questions, Do you intend to answer them. You are a christian, correct?

Yes greedy white men who forced their ways and religion on those that were not eliminated. The same white men that forced us to pray like they did, but refuse to teach us how to read their religions book called the bible during slavery


I concur with this statement here. No argument. How unfortunate that this is indeed true.


~j

...overcoming atrocities of the past and moving on.

Joyce, NNQueen asked a few very interesting questions, Do you intend to answer them. You are a christian, correct?

Please note...Queen asked Radical those questions because of statements made by him. I did not make those statements so why should I jump in and start answering to them.

I have no problem answering questions that are posed to me as YOU well know. However, I do not get in other people's Kool Aid unless dey po me up some of it. Moreover, don't be asking me if I am a Christian. You know what I am and what I stand for.


~j

...Not wanting no Kool Aid...just your french vanilla Latte please. :thanks:

Please note...Queen asked Radical those questions because of statements made by him. I did not make those statements so why should I jump in and start answering to them.

I have no problem answering questions that are posed to me as YOU well know. However, I do not get in other people's Kool Aid unless dey po me up some of it. Moreover, don't be asking me if I am a Christian. You know what I am and what I stand for.


~j

...Not wanting no Kool Aid...just your french vanilla Latte please. :thanks:

Figures :coffee:

My GOD (no pun intended), How did I miss this thread????

Figures :coffee:

Thank you so very much...hmmm that's good. May we speak with each other tomorrow? Gotta go see the Pistons kick butt now.

~j

My GOD (no pun intended), How did I miss this thread????


:lol:AUM, even YOU have a sense of humor :driveby:

Oh brother! Indians suffered tragically under the hand of greedy white men. God's love did not play a part in their horrendous acts. My goodness!


Aheem... Butting in for a moment. God's love may have not played a part, but God's sanction and his word did. Maybe misguided, but the Euro-Americans (greedy white men as you call them) certainly did have a precedent. Try the Book of Judges for starters. The God-inspired genocide of populace and the habitual claiming of others land as the "promised land" helped to fuel "Manifest Destiny" and the resultant wholesale slaughter. Notice a Col. Chivington, a Methodist minister. On November 29, 1864, Col. Chivington rode his Colorado Volunteers into a peaceful Cheyenne and Arapaho village on Sand Creek, Northern Colorado. He and his men massacred and mutilated over 100 men and women. Many of the particulars are too graphic to describe here. Col. Chivington is famous for saying: "kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice."

Clearly, this is not the Christian love and the Christian's God speaking:

"And the Lord, said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land and thou shalt do to him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land." Num. 21:34-35

or how about Num. 31:2-3 and Num. 31:17-18

We contrast these things with John 3:16 and I wonder what those young male Midianites were thinking about God's love at the time of their slaughter.

Let's not get into theological gymnastics the God of the OT sanctioned the death, ambush and massacre of thousands. Most of those villages, conquered and smitten by the Hebrews, reputed held thousands in them as city-states. If you can validate this, some future Muslim theologican could possibly validate 9/11 as God's reckoning with the "sinful" infidels of New Sodom and Gommorrah.

Lastly, these "same greedy white men" were the ones to introduce your foreparents to Christianity so I guess God's love was a part of those atrocities because it seems very unlikely for you to have been Christian today were it not for those "greedy white men."

Black/bird skippin da game

Aheem... Butting in for a moment. God's love may have not played a part, but God's sanction and his word did. Maybe misguided, but the Euro-Americans (greedy white men as you call them) certainly did have a precedent. Try the Book of Judges for starters. The God-inspired genocide of populace and the habitual claiming of others land as the "promised land" helped to fuel "Manifest Destiny" and the resultant wholesale slaughter. Notice a Col. Chivington, a Methodist minister. On November 29, 1864, Col. Chivington rode his Colorado Volunteers into a peaceful Cheyenne and Arapaho village on Sand Creek, Northern Colorado. He and his men massacred and mutilated over 100 men and women. Many of the particulars are too graphic to describe here. Col. Chivington is famous for saying: "kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice."

Clearly, this is not the Christian love and the Christian's God speaking:

"And the Lord, said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land and thou shalt do to him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land." Num. 21:34-35

or how about Num. 31:2-3 and Num. 31:17-18

We contrast these things with John 3:16 and I wonder what those young male Midianites were thinking about God's love at the time of their slaughter.

Let's not get into theological gymnastics the God of the OT sanctioned the death, ambush and massacre of thousands. Most of those villages, conquered and smitten by the Hebrews, reputed held thousands in them as city-states. If you can validate this, some future Muslim theologican could possibly validate 9/11 as God's reckoning with the "sinful" infidels of New Sodom and Gommorrah.

Lastly, these "same greedy white men" were the ones to introduce your foreparents to Christianity so I guess God's love was a part of those atrocities because it seems very unlikely for you to have been Christian today were it not for those "greedy white men."

Black/bird skippin da game

It's because of examples like this, and the Bible is replete with them, that I propose 2 deities in the Bible. One inherently loving and one inherently jealous. One is universal and the other tribalistic. One philosophical in nature and one very primal in nature.

Blackbird (returns to the elusive realm of shadows)

Oh brother! Indians suffered tragically under the hand of greedy white men. God's love did not play a part in their horrendous acts. My goodness!
The American Indian was one of the tribes of Israel.

Thank you so very much...hmmm that's good. May we speak with each other tomorrow? Gotta go see the Pistons kick butt now.

~j

You Say Your Christian Yes . Do You Follow The Laws That Yashua Follow , Or Are You A Paulite , Because He Was The One Who Called You Christian Acts 11 ; 26 ... ???

Did God not destroy the world? Did God not destroy Sodem and Gomorrah? Did God not send his destroyer to kill the first born of Egypt? Did God not destroy the Amelakites, the Perizzites, the Phillistines, Jebozites and all who would oppose Israel in the land of Canaan? Did God not let his profits and righteous men suffer and die horrorable deaths. Wasn't Jesus slaughtered. God let these things happen because nothing in this world is meant to last. Physical death is only God keeping his promise. We must die to our flesh to live in our spirit. It matters not how God calls us home as long as we go home with God.

The truth only offends the guilty.

Just a few questions--

Q:What's the opposite of a true Christian, a false one?

A:A so called christian(Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, church folk,etc.)

Q:What is the difference between a true Christian and a Christian?

A: A so called christian does not know God or Jesus, they distort the Word of God, and they unsually submitted to some misguided individual.

Q:Do you think that ALL nonbelievers in Jesus "hate" Christians? If so, what's your proof?

A: Not all nonbelievers hate christians but a large majority do. If some nonbelievers didn't hate christians they wouldn't care to comment.

Q:How do you know the difference between the truth and a lie?

A: The same way you know you have a mind though you have never experienced it with physical senses.

Q:Can you provide me with an example of an "esoteric or dead cult"?

A: Church Universal and Triumphant, The Hare Krishnas, The Family of Love, Scientology, Unification Church, Wicca.


Q:How does a "true" Christian stand on the truth boldly yet with humility? Can you provide me with an example of this in discussions that are taking place in this thread?

A: A true christian knows his source and is a joyful witness without fear yet giving all the glory and praise to God. I have no examples in this thread but I do in others. e.g. Scripture of the day, Who is us, 2 God in the Bible.

Q: What is the first commandment that "true" Christians follow and did you bear witness to all of them doing this?

A: Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me." I have not seen all true christians in the world but the christians have seen I can confirm.

Q: Can you provide me with examples of "true" Christians being in constant repentence and for what?

A: True christian understands that flesh is afflicted with sin. At times all true christians surcome to their afflictions and must ask God for forgiveness through the prayer of confession. Sin is the disobedience of Gods will by word, thought or action.

Q:Do you know for a fact that "true" Christians aren't afraid to speak the truth, even about themselves?

A: Yes. Truth is liberating. Self examination is the first step in deliverance.

Q: Why do you believe there is no "polite" way to tell the truth?

A: The truth is what its is no matter the tone in your voice, the language it's spoken or what mood you're in when you hear it.

Q: Why do you believe that Christians are hated because of someone's inability to face the truth?

A: A person unable to face the truth hates himself much less anyone else.

No disrespect is intended by my questions only my meager attempt at seeking a deeper understanding behind your words.


Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Queenie my personal belief is when the second advent of Christ happens Christians (who are the church of Christ), Muslims (who are the seed Abraham) and Jews(who are God's chosen people) Will be united by the Messiah and Will be rapture out of this world and into the Kingdom of heaven.

Peace

Radical Faith

...Did God not let his profits and righteous men suffer and die horrorable deaths. Wasn't Jesus slaughtered. God let these things happen because nothing in this world is meant to last. Physical death is only God keeping his promise. We must die to our flesh to live in our spirit. It matters not how God calls us home as long as we go home with God.

As long as we have people who think like this the world will stay in the hands of the same DEVIL that people are supposed to rebuke.

I'll say this, the physical world isn't all that. However statements like these make me realize that some who claim to be religious are really on a KAMIKAZE mission. You and I (I N I) were put here to GROW in the spiritual world by going through trials and tribulations, Triumphs and Achievements; NOT TO "CROSS(hmm) YOUR HEART AND HOPE TO DIE AND MAYBE YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME GLORIOUS AFTERLIFE. That's like Failing every subject in school and hoping to get promoted anyway or at least get a "nicer" teacher next semester. :teach:

"Om"

:lol:AUM, even YOU have a sense of humor :driveby:

Thanks and welcome to the truth of what others have noticed since I started posting.

"Om"

Thanks and welcome to the truth of what others have noticed since I started posting.

"Om"

:driveby:Oh? And what might that "truth" be...pray tell?

Blackbird Said: Lastly, these "same greedy white men" were the ones to introduce your foreparents to Christianity so I guess God's love was a part of those atrocities because it seems very unlikely for you to have been Christian today were it not for those "greedy white men."

Oh my brotha. I fear much learning has confused you. For it was not whites who introduced Chrisitianity to blacks...it was Blacks who introduced Christianity to whites. So please don't dare go there.

There are very, very, few white people in the bible in fact. In your attempt to "align" your spirit with your black ancestors, you have chosen to leave out the blacks who have made the greatest impact, spiritually, upon our world as we know it.

The white man only used our ancestor's bible as a basis for promoting their agenda, but does that make Christianity evil? Those 19 men who took their own life as well as that of over 2,500 people on 9-11 used the Qur'an as their basis for doing so. Does that mean that the Qur'an is an evil book...certainly not! So please...let's not come to the table with bad food and try to have me eat cuz I'd rather have me a fresh sweet potato pie, some collards with ham hocks, white acre peas with okra and hamhocks...got suma that? How bout some red kool aid? Invite me over bro.

...remember, the Blacks in the bible are YOUR ancestors too. Don't reject them just because they don't line up with what you are presently into.

~j

It's because of examples like this, and the Bible is replete with them, that I propose 2 deities in the Bible. One inherently loving and one inherently jealous. One is universal and the other tribalistic. One philosophical in nature and one very primal in nature.

Blackbird (returns to the elusive realm of shadows)

You are free to propose whatever you want to. But in the end...only truth will dictate.

~j ...watching Blackbird fly back into his elusive realm.

Scripture From Isaiah 45:

3I will give you the treasures of darkness
And hidden riches of secret places,
That you may know that I, the LORD,
Who call you by your name,
Am the God of Israel.
4For Jacob My servant's sake,
And Israel My elect,
I have even called you by your name;
I have named you, though you have not known Me.
5I am the LORD, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me,
6That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides Me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other;
7I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the LORD, do all these things.'


8"Rain down, you heavens, from above,
And let the skies pour down righteousness;
Let the earth open, let them bring forth salvation,
And let righteousness spring up together.
I, the LORD, have created it.


9"Woe to him who strives with his Maker!

Blackbird Said: Lastly, these "same greedy white men" were the ones to introduce your foreparents to Christianity so I guess God's love was a part of those atrocities because it seems very unlikely for you to have been Christian today were it not for those "greedy white men."

Oh my brotha. I fear much learning has confused you. For it was not whites who introduced Chrisitianity to blacks...it was Blacks who introduced Christianity to whites. So please don't dare go there.

There are very, very, few white people in the bible in fact. In your attempt to "align" your spirit with your black ancestors, you have chosen to leave out the blacks who have made the greatest impact, spiritually, upon our world as we know it.

The white man only used our ancestor's bible as a basis for promoting their agenda, but does that make Christianity evil? Those 19 men who took their own life as well as that of over 2,500 people on 9-11 used the Qur'an as their basis for doing so. Does that mean that the Qur'an is an evil book...certainly not! So please...let's not come to the table with bad food and try to have me eat cuz I'd rather have me a fresh sweet potato pie, some collards with ham hocks, white acre peas with okra and hamhocks...got suma that? How bout some red kool aid? Invite me over bro.

...remember, the Blacks in the bible are YOUR ancestors too. Don't reject them just because they don't line up with what you are presently into.

~j

Joyce,

You wrote: "
Oh my brotha. I fear much learning has confused you. For it was not whites who introduced Chrisitianity to blacks...it was Blacks who introduced Christianity to whites. So please don't dare go there."

No, I'm afraid you are wrong. I have done my own comparative analysis with Afrikan religious statements and European ones and I'm sorry to say Christianity has more to do with pre-Christian European religious statements then Afrikans. I dare go there to tell you that the people of Palestine were not Black. They were typical of your present-day Arab. Evidence is there to back this claim up. Maybe you need to study a more diversity of topics and subjects before going dare with me. Trust me. I'm not confused and I am quite confident on what I say regarding this. Our ancestors were Ewe and they practice Vodou. Yoruba and they believed in the orisa. Bakongo and they had their priests known as nganga. They knew nothing of Christianity and personally, I feel their beliefs were spiritually advanced. Many Afrikans have much to say about Christianity and its not to kind.

You wrote: "There are very, very, few white people in the bible in fact. In your attempt to "align" your spirit with your black ancestors, you have chosen to leave out the blacks who have made the greatest impact, spiritually, upon our world as we know it."

Oh, the contrary. Culturally, the Bible is very Indo-European oriented and the Hebrew language, like Aramaic and Arabic, has been shown to have archaic Indo-European influences. Couple this information with the historical record of the period and we see a forminable argument for white people in the Bible. They were not my ancestors. My ancestors were from West Afrika, they have come in my dreams and have pulled me the direction I am going. Thank you. Christianity has made such an impact on the world due to its imperialistic function in global supremacy. If it were not for its ideology of spreading the message and its' championship by the Roman and Byzantine Empires, the world could possibly have been Muslim rather than Christian. Think objectively Joyce.

You wrote: "The white man only used our ancestor's bible as a basis for promoting their agenda, but does that make Christianity evil?"

My ancestor's bible? My ancestors' bible was Nature and the natural world, not some book with a limited number of pages. I never said Christianity was evil, maybe you think that? Don't put words in my mouth.

You wrote: "Does that mean that the Qur'an is an evil book..."

If the God of the Qur'an justified the slaughter of thousands because they didn't believe in him. Yes. Same goes for the Bible or rather the God in it. It sicking to praise a God that would condone and order the mass murder of men, women and children simply because of disbelief. There is no gymnastics around it.

Blackbird (ever watching and vigilant)

Did God not destroy the world? Did God not destroy Sodem and Gomorrah? Did God not send his destroyer to kill the first born of Egypt? Did God not destroy the Amelakites, the Perizzites, the Phillistines, Jebozites and all who would oppose Israel in the land of Canaan? Did God not let his profits and righteous men suffer and die horrorable deaths. Wasn't Jesus slaughtered. God let these things happen because nothing in this world is meant to last. Physical death is only God keeping his promise. We must die to our flesh to live in our spirit. It matters not how God calls us home as long as we go home with God.

Theological gymnastics. Kill 'em all, huh, thus saith the Lord.

Blackbird

Joyce,

I had to go back to this....

You wrote: "The white man only used our ancestor's bible as a basis for promoting their agenda, but does that make Christianity evil? Those 19 men who took their own life as well as that of over 2,500 people on 9-11 used the Qur'an as their basis for doing so. Does that mean that the Qur'an is an evil book...certainly not!"

Explain this please!

Clearly, this is not the Christian love and the Christian's God speaking:

"And the Lord, said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land and thou shalt do to him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land." Num. 21:34-35

or how about Num. 31:2-3 and Num. 31:17-18.

We contrast these things with John 3:16 and I wonder what those young male Midianites were thinking about God's love at the time of their slaughter?

Where is the love in the slaughter of young boys and keeping only the girls for self?

Righteous and justice or sacrifice for a bloodlust and jealous God?

Let's not get into theological gymnastics the God of the OT sanctioned the death, ambush and massacre of thousands. Most of those villages, conquered and smitten by the Hebrews, reputed held thousands in them as city-states. If you can validate this, some future Muslim theologican could possibly validate 9/11 as God's reckoning with the "sinful" infidels of New Sodom and Gomorrah. Please anyone can explain anything, even Hitler can explain his murder of 6 million Jews in reasonable terms. We do when we say "GOD TOLD ME" like Moses, Joshua and David did. It's that simple.

Is the God in the OT the same as in the NT? Why do you say so? What evidence outside the Bible supports this is true?

What is the origin of Abraham and during what time period did he emigrate?

Where does the term Hebrew come from and are there any records of that name outside the Bible?

Why, in your own words, do you believe God came to the Hebrews and not the Egyptians?

Who was Melchizedek and what was his role?

Blackbird (da professor)

It's because of examples like this, and the Bible is replete with them, that I propose 2 deities in the Bible. One inherently loving and one inherently jealous. One is universal and the other tribalistic. One philosophical in nature and one very primal in nature.

Blackbird (returns to the elusive realm of shadows)


As you full well brotha, the Gnostics call the latter the impostor "god" named Yadabaoth and the former the true God or creator of the universe.

Yadabaoth is credited with persecuting "man" by forcing him into praying to him and keeping him ignorant of his inner divine spark. The original breath of life breathed into him by the Creator, by the feminine principle known as the shekinah, Aset, Mary, Meri, Sophia.

This Divine spark is found at the root chakra, and is locked inside a primordial crystal. soon to be shattered and will ignite a complete and total world wide purification process

Joyce,

I had to go back to this....

You wrote: "The white man only used our ancestor's bible as a basis for promoting their agenda, but does that make Christianity evil? Those 19 men who took their own life as well as that of over 2,500 people on 9-11 used the Qur'an as their basis for doing so. Does that mean that the Qur'an is an evil book...certainly not!"

Explain this please!

Clearly, this is not the Christian love and the Christian's God speaking:

"And the Lord, said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land and thou shalt do to him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land." Num. 21:34-35

or how about Num. 31:2-3 and Num. 31:17-18.

We contrast these things with John 3:16 and I wonder what those young male Midianites were thinking about God's love at the time of their slaughter?

Where is the love in the slaughter of young boys and keeping only the girls for self?

Righteous and justice or sacrifice for a bloodlust and jealous God?

Let's not get into theological gymnastics the God of the OT sanctioned the death, ambush and massacre of thousands. Most of those villages, conquered and smitten by the Hebrews, reputed held thousands in them as city-states. If you can validate this, some future Muslim theologican could possibly validate 9/11 as God's reckoning with the "sinful" infidels of New Sodom and Gomorrah. Please anyone can explain anything, even Hitler can explain his murder of 6 million Jews in reasonable terms. We do when we say "GOD TOLD ME" like Moses, Joshua and David did. It's that simple.

Is the God in the OT the same as in the NT? Why do you say so? What evidence outside the Bible supports this is true?

What is the origin of Abraham and during what time period did he emigrate?

Where does the term Hebrew come from and are there any records of that name outside the Bible?

Why, in your own words, do you believe God came to the Hebrews and not the Egyptians?

Who was Melchizedek and what was his role?

Blackbird (da professor)

He is a Mighty warrior against all evil and those who endorse it...sorry, but He didn't tolerate it well then and you will see Him rise again in end times to take care of all the loose ends. Get your house in order or suffer the consequences.

6That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides Me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other;
7I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the LORD, do all these things.'


8"Rain down, you heavens, from above,
And let the skies pour down righteousness;
Let the earth open, let them bring forth salvation,
And let righteousness spring up together.
I, the LORD, have created it.


9"Woe to him who strives with his Maker!

~j

He is a Mighty warrior against all evil and those who endorse it...sorry, but He didn't tolerate it well then and you will see Him rise again in end times to take care of all the loose ends. Get your house in order or suffer the consequences.

6That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides Me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other;
7I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the LORD, do all these things.'


8"Rain down, you heavens, from above,
And let the skies pour down righteousness;
Let the earth open, let them bring forth salvation,
And let righteousness spring up together.
I, the LORD, have created it.


9"Woe to him who strives with his Maker!

~j


Joyce,

Hello, but you make God sound like a terrorist. Your statements can be seen as threats and what does an all-powerful GOD have to do with threaten folks to behave and obey.

The problem in all of this as how we view the Creator. Our views of God are totally different. What you have been saying maybe good for you, but DON'T and I mean DON'T speak for God to me. Yes, I have raised questions about Christianity, but I never said you were on the wrong path or confused. How can you say that to me when you know little about my beliefs. I was in the church actively as a participant so my knowledge I have is first-hand as well as third-person. I don't have to read books or websites to learn about Christianity. Shoot my whole family is devoutly Christian and has been for years.

I noticed in my hometown, one neighborhood has over 30 churches, all supposedly preaching the redemption of Christ, yet still the crime and poverty rate is high and the quality of life is low. I ministered to gangmembers who knew more about Christ and the Bible than most people in the Christian church and can say the precepts in the Bible occasionally guided their misguided behavior. Most were firm believers in Christ and the God in the Bible.

Blackbird (clearing myself)

Joyce,

I had to go back to this....

You wrote: "The white man only used our ancestor's bible as a basis for promoting their agenda, but does that make Christianity evil? Those 19 men who took their own life as well as that of over 2,500 people on 9-11 used the Qur'an as their basis for doing so. Does that mean that the Qur'an is an evil book...certainly not!"

Explain this please!

Clearly, this is not the Christian love and the Christian's God speaking:

"And the Lord, said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land and thou shalt do to him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land." Num. 21:34-35

or how about Num. 31:2-3 and Num. 31:17-18.

We contrast these things with John 3:16 and I wonder what those young male Midianites were thinking about God's love at the time of their slaughter?

Where is the love in the slaughter of young boys and keeping only the girls for self?

Righteous and justice or sacrifice for a bloodlust and jealous God?

Let's not get into theological gymnastics the God of the OT sanctioned the death, ambush and massacre of thousands. Most of those villages, conquered and smitten by the Hebrews, reputed held thousands in them as city-states. If you can validate this, some future Muslim theologican could possibly validate 9/11 as God's reckoning with the "sinful" infidels of New Sodom and Gomorrah. Please anyone can explain anything, even Hitler can explain his murder of 6 million Jews in reasonable terms. We do when we say "GOD TOLD ME" like Moses, Joshua and David did. It's that simple.

Is the God in the OT the same as in the NT? Why do you say so? What evidence outside the Bible supports this is true?

What is the origin of Abraham and during what time period did he emigrate?

Where does the term Hebrew come from and are there any records of that name outside the Bible?

Why, in your own words, do you believe God came to the Hebrews and not the Egyptians?

Who was Melchizedek and what was his role?

Blackbird (da professor)Any people that don’t serve GOD and GOD only will be crushed. GOD did not choose Israel because of our righteousness, but because of the wickedness of the people in that land.


Deut:9:4: Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.

Deut:9:5: Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.


That’s why GOD had those people slaughtered. And if GOD had not have done this they would be dad anyway because they were sacrificing their children to demons in the fire.

...I was in the church actively as a participant so my knowledge I have is first-hand as well as third-person. I don't have to read books or websites to learn about Christianity. Shoot my whole family is devoutly Christian and has been for years.

I noticed in my hometown, one neighborhood has over 30 churches, all supposedly preaching the redemption of Christ, yet still the crime and poverty rate is high and the quality of life is low.

Man, same here. I'm from Coastal GA, right under S.C. and this is where many of us got off the slave boats. Raised in Church, most family is in there, You know "what it is".

I read that the Ancient Temples in Afrika were beautifully constructed and was a reflection of the community/village. Well what about churches and mosques of today? Many I see are right in the middle of the ghetto.
Let's face it, today's inner cities aren't the picture of an ideal community to grow and be free, raise children, etc.

If the churches were "right" then these communities would be drug-free and crime-free because the community would have something sacred to uphold. Instead it becomes the same slave-quarter conditions that whites forced fed their God and religion upon our ancestors during slavery here in the west and colonialism on the continent.

Man, same here. I'm from Coastal GA, right under S.C. and this is where many of us got off the slave boats. Raised in Church, most family is in there, You know "what it is".

I read that the Ancient Temples in Afrika were beautifully constructed and was a reflection of the community/village. Well what about churches and mosques of today? Many I see are right in the middle of the ghetto.
Let's face it, today's inner cities aren't the picture of an ideal community to grow and be free, raise children, etc.

If the churches were "right" then these communities would be drug-free and crime-free because the community would have something sacred to uphold. Instead it becomes the same slave-quarter conditions that whites forced fed their God and religion upon our ancestors during slavery here in the west and colonialism on the continent.

AUM,

I'm a loosey-ana, boy, myself. The most magnificent structures in our communities are the churches. They look like castles and such. While they are expensive and impression, most of the people live in shanty-town shacks on streets with little lighting. These large institutions support nothing that could improve quality of life concerns if they deemed them as upsetting the status quo. We have these large buildings, with huge followings, but we have no Black banks, credit unions or developmental agencies. It's real out here and all most people can do is say "Let me tell you about Jesus", but these same people are losing their own children to drugs and violence. I'm sorry. I'm tired of praying, wishing and hoping.

Blackbird (passionate about community business and religion)

AUM,

I'm a loosey-ana, boy, myself. The most magnificent structures in our communities are the churches. They look like castles and such. While they are expensive and impression, most of the people live in shanty-town shacks on streets with little lighting. These large institutions support nothing that could improve quality of life concerns if they deemed them as upsetting the status quo. We have these large buildings, with huge followings, but we have no Black banks, credit unions or developmental agencies. It's real out here and all most people can do is say "Let me tell you about Jesus", but these same people are losing their own children to drugs and violence. I'm sorry. I'm tired of praying, wishing and hoping.

Blackbird (passionate about community business and religion)

Well you know us "Geechee" Deep South kids have come a long way to even have a discussion like this. It must be 2004, run and tell everyone you know! When we throw off this yoke, we will never again be broke. Nat Turner lives in me, BURNING down Rome like he did up in Virginny.

As you full well brotha, the Gnostics call the latter the impostor "god" named Yadabaoth and the former the true God or creator of the universe.

Yadabaoth is credited with persecuting "man" by forcing him into praying to him and keeping him ignorant of his inner divine spark. The original breath of life breathed into him by the Creator, by the feminine principle known as the shekinah, Aset, Mary, Meri, Sophia.

This Divine spark is found at the root chakra, and is locked inside a primordial crystal. soon to be shattered and will ignite a complete and total world wide purification process

Some crystals have already been shattered. Some crystals are so heavily guarded so that it is ensured not to shatter on time. There lies a time capsule in each of us. Sekhemu I suppose this is why there was a hunt for all the world's relics like the Grail, Hope Diamond, Crystals, Tablets, Statues, etc. because THEY thought that IT was going to be something physical. Little did THEY realize IT is on the inside of a few people, waiting to go off. If that was too BLACK for some of you here's a light :flamet: IGNORANCE

"OOOooommmmm"

As long as we have people who think like this the world will stay in the hands of the same DEVIL that people are supposed to rebuke.

I'll say this, the physical world isn't all that. However statements like these make me realize that some who claim to be religious are really on a KAMIKAZE mission. You and I (I N I) were put here to GROW in the spiritual world by going through trials and tribulations, Triumphs and Achievements; NOT TO "CROSS(hmm) YOUR HEART AND HOPE TO DIE AND MAYBE YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME GLORIOUS AFTERLIFE. That's like Failing every subject in school and hoping to get promoted anyway or at least get a "nicer" teacher next semester. :teach:

"Om"

So you're saying live it up now because there is no tomorrow? I hope not. What I'm saying is God giveth and taketh away. Death will come no matter what. No man knows the hour of his demise unless he purposely forefits his life. Therefore we must live right. Living right means getting right with God. Also the "Devil" you are talking about could less about your physical body, he's more interested in your soul.

I am a Christian and have a great love for the truth. I also believe that the wicked one, satan, finds ways to cause strife and discord among people and one way is through religion.

I do not accept Islam and never will. That is my right. There are things that I do not agree with and I hate for things to come down to arguments and attacks.

There are many Muslims on my job. Basically we are there to work. I have been invited to attend Muslim services but declined. There is only one walk for me and that is being a Christian. And I respect a person's right to choose their faith, but I do not like the attacks against Christianity by some blacks in which it is called "the white man's religion". The white man doesn't have a thing to do with what I believe. I do not have any pictures or refuse to buy any books deplicting a white Jesus, especially him with long hair and feminine looks.

It does not matter to me the color of Christ's skin when he was on earth. I don't waste my time in research and debates over this issue. Those melanin topics I avoid, because I feel that blacks are trying to promote superiority, and from the things I've learned, God made us ALL in his image. So no race is superior over the other and we need to get this out of our mind.

We are taught that God is no respecter of person. He don't care about your skin color, your bank account, your accomplishments, etc...you are nothing but a mere speck.

I've been taught to love people. And there are Christians from every racial background. To hate a white person is to hate a white sister or brother in Christ. I'm aware of the history, but I don't live in the past. I'm looking forward to the day when there will be total peace and plan to be a part of it.

I question how some Muslims are mean and violent, like the ones we are fighting against. And then I know some Muslims who are peaceful. Also, some who call themselves Christians, their despicable acts. What comes to mind is the way the Iraqi prisoners have been treated. There was one person who called himself a Christian, but he felt that he was more compelled to obey the orders of his superior officer than God. The Muslims are showing this as if to say "Now, this is what Christians do; they are sex perverts, etc."

I do not feel embarrassed by so called Christians like these. They do not represent me. In the bible, we are told that not everyone who says Lord, Lord will inherit His kingdom. God knows who belongs to Him.

We also have some preachers who have gained great wealth from cheating and trickery. God knows who they are and he will deal with them. God knows about the preachers who say one thing and do just the opposite. And He knows what those soldiers were doing to those prisoners and if the law of the land doesn't handle it properly, He is the Final Judge.

Sometimes there is an inner war among Christians. Some Christians attack others. Nothing was more discouraging to me than a woman making snide remarks about the slit in my skirt and what was the proper length for a slit. Also, she offered to sew my slits together. In other words, she was trying to dress me in a way that she would approve.

We also have those Christians who think salvation is based on works. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe in salvation based on field service, meeting attendance and how many magazines you place. Yet, some of them have mistreated other brothers and sisters if they think that person is not doing as much as them.

There are all these denominations in Christianity. They have 1,001 manmade rules so to speak, but none of them have anything to do with the truth.

God takes us at face value. He accepts us individually. The actions of others can reflect on the whole body of Christians, but God judges us individually.

I do not know a lot about Islam, but I know enough that I don't wish to convert. This is just an honest admission and was not meant to be offensive. And a Muslim has the right to say that he or she do not wish to convert to Christianity.

The way I follow is true and real because I've been blessed so many times by God. I have peace and love for others. I cannot bear hatred for the white people because my God is one of LOVE. There are people who I'm not overly fond of because of their actions, but that includes just as many blacks.

God has blessed me in so many ways because I put my trust in Him and not in any man. When it comes down to my employment, it is Him I trust for a job.

Through Christ, I'm a free woman. I can have whatever I wish that's in the Father's will. And no white man or woman can stop me from having things. That's why I speak strongly when some of us feel that whites are superior to us or some feel that they can't have this or that "because the white man don't want me to have it". This is not the teaching in Christianity.

When we speak these negative words, they will become true. If I felt that the white woman didn't want me to have a nice job or home, I would be defeated and act on that. I wouldn't try to work at certain places because "the white man doesn't want me there". Christianity has freed me from that thinking. And I've seen the results of it.

Christianity has shown me that we are not in a battle with the white man. We are in battle with evil spirit forces. And in the end, those forces will be destroyed (Satan and his demons).

Therefore, my love of God prevents me from getting into the debates about melanin, etc. Because in the end, melanin will not protect one from His wrath. We should be more focused on betterment of our lives, protecting our children, and respecting our fellow humans. Even if we have melanin, we still get sick. Melanin is not stopping one for getting HIV/AIDS.

Black people, we do not need to feed into these topics to make ourselves superior. God knows our struggles and only HE will give relief. If we keep on with the separatist attitudes, He cannot bless us.

I view myself as a beautiful human who happens to be descendant from the black race. I don't need the approval or acceptance of man.

Sometimes people leave Christianity for the way they were treated. I've been treated badly by socalled Christians, but like I said above, God knows who belongs to Him. Not everyone with that title of Christian will inherit His Kingdom.

I respect the rights of others, but I do not wish them to try to force their beliefs on me and likewise I do the same. I do not get into the bible thumping mode. If you ask me questions, you get answers, but I don't force myself on anyone.

I have been told, "don't talk religion to me" especially when I was reading my bible or Christian books during breaktime.

I will continue to be the best I can be and bear no malice towards anyone.


It gives me immense joy to see someone filled by the Holy Spirit such as yourself. The Lord says where two or more gather in his name and pray great things are bound to happen. Let's be in prayer for our lost brothers and sister that they may be touched by the true living God that has touched our lives.

Stay bold and unafraid

Radical Faith

So you're saying live it up now because there is no tomorrow? I hope not. What I'm saying is God giveth and taketh away. Death will come no matter what. No man knows the hour of his demise unless he purposely forefits his life. Therefore we must live right. Living right means getting right with God. Also the "Devil" you are talking about could less about your physical body, he's more interested in your soul.

Radical Blind Faith,
Read my post again.
Thanks

"OM"

Joyce,

I had to go back to this....

You wrote: "The white man only used our ancestor's bible as a basis for promoting their agenda, but does that make Christianity evil? Those 19 men who took their own life as well as that of over 2,500 people on 9-11 used the Qur'an as their basis for doing so. Does that mean that the Qur'an is an evil book...certainly not!"

Explain this please!

Clearly, this is not the Christian love and the Christian's God speaking:

"And the Lord, said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land and thou shalt do to him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land." Num. 21:34-35

or how about Num. 31:2-3 and Num. 31:17-18.

We contrast these things with John 3:16 and I wonder what those young male Midianites were thinking about God's love at the time of their slaughter?

Where is the love in the slaughter of young boys and keeping only the girls for self?

Righteous and justice or sacrifice for a bloodlust and jealous God?

Let's not get into theological gymnastics the God of the OT sanctioned the death, ambush and massacre of thousands. Most of those villages, conquered and smitten by the Hebrews, reputed held thousands in them as city-states. If you can validate this, some future Muslim theologican could possibly validate 9/11 as God's reckoning with the "sinful" infidels of New Sodom and Gomorrah. Please anyone can explain anything, even Hitler can explain his murder of 6 million Jews in reasonable terms. We do when we say "GOD TOLD ME" like Moses, Joshua and David did. It's that simple.

Is the God in the OT the same as in the NT? Why do you say so? What evidence outside the Bible supports this is true?

What is the origin of Abraham and during what time period did he emigrate?

Where does the term Hebrew come from and are there any records of that name outside the Bible?

Why, in your own words, do you believe God came to the Hebrews and not the Egyptians?

Who was Melchizedek and what was his role?

Blackbird (da professor)





Brother Blackbird:

I must ask you not to pose more than 1 question at a time to me. I have just finished answering questions from you on another thread. I have too many posts vying for my attention in the Religious and Spirituality forum to be answering 6 and 8 questions from someone who will only reject the answers anyway.

This is why I stopped answering questions posed to me by Music Producer & Issa. There were posing for contentious reasons only and not peaceful dialogue. I am for peace and when I sense a contentious spirit such as I sense in you, I deal with it in one of 2 ways...

1. I will attempt to bring understanding to the table.
2. If number 1 fails. I will most likely stop conversing with that person and ignore them.

I'm striving for number 1 with you but you are provoking me to choose number 2. I really enjoy posting to you but I can't stand a contentious spirit. So ease up will you???

To give you a clearer picture of where I am coming from...When I am in Sekhemu's thread, I only ask one or two questions at a time. Why? Because even though I have a very inquistive mind, I only want answers and not a fight. Thus, I give him room to respond to each question I pose. Now I have fell into some fights over there, but that's because someone passed the first "lick". However, I have always managed to get out of them without getting too banged up. :driveby:

Take note, that Sekhemu has explained to me that he can only go so far in answering my questions. See in order for me to comprehend the spiritual teachings pertaining to melanin, I would have to be willing to reject the teaching and lifestyle of Jesus. Once I embrace this melanin force, then I will be able to recieve the understanding of what is being taught. Until I make a personal decision to commit my heart and soul to the ancient teachings of melanin it is no use in Sekhemu tring to share anything with me beyond basic knowledge. He is a teacher and as such, I must sit in his classroom...I must be willing to be his student.

Thus, I say to you, that Jesus is a teacher (and more) and before you can comprehend the totality of who he is, you must sit in His classroom. This begins with acknowledge that He is right and just. If you do not believe He is right, why ask questions? If you do not believe he is just in all he does, you will not receive anything from him. If you refute his teachings from the beginning, you will not be a student. You learn by asking questions, but if you are not willing to be a student, how will you accept or understand the answers? Until then your unlearned mind will not comprehend. I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

How will you be able to learn from Him if you are not willing to be His student???

Why ask questions, if you are not willing to put yourself in the position of understanding when the answer is given???

All of these questions are of course rhetorical. Please do not attempt to answer but think...objectively

Respectfully,

~j

P.S. Please choose ONE of your questions above to pose to me and we will discuss from there.

Brother Blackbird:

I must ask you not to pose more than 1 question at a time to me. I have just finished answering questions from you on another thread. I have too many posts vying for my attention in the Religious and Spirituality forum to be answering 6 and 8 questions from someone who will only reject the answers anyway.

This is why I stopped answering question posed to me by Music Producer & Issa. There were posing for contentious reasons only and not peaceful dialogue. I am for peace and when I sense a contentious spirit such as I sense in you, I deal with it in one of 2 ways...

1. I will attempt to bring understanding to the table.
2. If number 1 fails. I will most likely stop conversing with that person and ignore them.

I'm striving for number 1 with you but you are provoking me to choose number 2. I really enjoy posting to you but I can't stand a contentious spirit. So ease up will you???

To give you a clearer picture of where I am coming from...When I am in Sekhemu's thread, I only ask one or two questions at a time. Why? Because even though I have a very inquistive mind, I only want answers and not a fight. Thus, I give him room to respond to each question I pose. Now I have fell into some fights over there, but that's because someone passed the first "lick". However, I have always managed to get out of them without getting too banged up. :driveby:

Take note, that Sekhemu has explained to me that he can only go so far in answering my questions. See in order for me to comprehend the spiritual teachings pertaining to melanin, I would have to be willing to reject the teaching and lifestyle of Jesus. Once I embrace this melanin force, then I will be able to recieve the understanding of what is being taught. Until I make a personal decision to commit my heart and soul to the ancient teachings of melanin it is no use in Sekhemu tring to share anything with me beyond basic knowledge. He is a teacher and as such, I must sit in his classroom...I must be willing to be his student.

Thus, I say to you, that Jesus is a teacher (and more) and before you can comprehend the totality of who he is, you must sit in His classroom. This begins with acknowledge that He is right and just. If you do not believe He is right, why ask questions? If you do not believe he is just in all he does, you will not receive anything from him. If you refute his teachings from the beginning, you will not be a student. You learn by asking questions, but if you are not willing to be a student, how will you accept or understand the answers? Until then your unlearned mind will not comprehend. I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

How will you be able to learn from Him if you are not willing to be His student???

Why ask questions, if you are not willing to put yourself in the position of understanding when the answer is given???

All of these questions are of course rhetorical. Please do not attempt to answer but think...objectively

Respectfully,

~j

I agree. Contentious spirit? I felt as if you were attacking me and not respecting my choice in beliefs. I never quoted you any Ifa Odu, which are our scriptures per se.

Blackbird

No more preaching come to him and I will not tell you come to Ifa, oh confused soul. Agreed.

I agree. Contentious spirit? I felt as if you were attacking me and not respecting my choice in beliefs. I never quoted you any Ifa Odu, which are our scriptures per se.

Blackbird

No more preaching come to him and I will not tell you come to Ifa, oh confused soul. Agreed.

Okay Blackbird...I will not ask you to come to Him again. However, I will pray for you here this one time.

Father God,

I lift up Blackbird before you now and ask in Jesus name, that his path be enlightening by the power of your word. I pray that in the next 7 days, you will begin to deal compassionately with his heart and block all bitterness against you. I sense that he wants to understand you first before he can accept you, but I pray that he will accept you first then sit in the classroom of understanding for the endurance of his life time. For surely, you are too deep for any finite mind to grasp. Your ways are not our ways, your thoughts are not our thoughts...therefore, we must sit at your feet and recieve that spiritual bread that we so badly need.

I pray that he will do the necessary thing and that he will refute his darkness for your light. For he must realize that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He can not comprehend the Father until he has accepted the Son.

Please do not turn him over to a reprobate mind, for then all the prayer in the world will not help him. Forgive him for the quickness of his lips concerning things he understands not. Show forth your mercy in his behalf.

Thank you Father...I ask these things in your Son's name, Jesus.

So be it.

I love you Blackbird and I respect you. Thus, after today, I will not ask you to come back to God, I will only trust that you will.

~j

Okay Blackbird...I will not ask you to come to Him again. However, I will pray for you here this one time.

Father God,

I lift up Blackbird before you now and ask in Jesus name, that his path be enlightening by the power of your word. I pray that in the next 7 days, you will begin to deal compassionately with his heart and block all bitterness against you. I sense that he wants to understand you first before he can accept you, but I pray that he will accept you first then sit in the classroom of understanding for the endurance of his life time. For surely, you are too deep for any finite mind to grasp. Your ways are not our ways, your thoughts are not our thoughts...therefore, we must sit at your feet and recieve that spiritual bread that we so badly need.

I pray that he will do the necessary thing and that he will refute his darkness for your light. For he must realize that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He can not comprehend the Father until he has accepted the Son.

Please do not turn him over to a reprobate mind, for then all the prayer in the world will not help him. Forgive him for the quickness of his lips concerning things he understands not. Show forth your mercy in his behalf.

Thank you Father...I ask these things in your Son's name, Jesus.

So be it.

I love you Blackbird and I respect you. Thus, after today, I will not ask you to come back to God, I will only trust that you will.

~j

Sista Joyce,

I appreciate your concern, but I never left God. I left Christianity. I only serve God in a different way. Not all of us were meant to be Christian. I can work with any Christian that choosing to work with me, but I will never give up my faith. As you are a priest, so I'm I. I was born into this this. This is my destiny. I pray as well. You don't know anything about my path but you assume...

Blackbird

Sista Joyce,

I appreciate your concern, but I never left God. I left Christianity. I only serve God in a different way. Not all of us were meant to be Christian. I can work with any Christian that choosing to work with me, but I will never give up my faith. As you are a priest, so I'm I. I was born into this this. This is my destiny. I pray as well. You don't know anything about my path but you assume...

Blackbird

You are right...not all will follow Jesus Christ, God's Son. In rejecting God's Son...you have rejected God.

Proverbs 14:

12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
but in the end it leads to death.

13 Even in laughter the heart may ache,
and joy may end in grief.

~j

You are right...not all will follow Jesus Christ, God's Son. In rejecting God's Son...you have rejected God.

Proverbs 14:

12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
but in the end it leads to death.

13 Even in laughter the heart may ache,
and joy may end in grief.

~j

I never rejected God. I am in the service of God, my ancestors and the spirits.

Check out this before you pass judgement on me:
http://www.awostudycenter.com/

Blackbird

Reference:

if you don't believe in the christian definition of God then that makes you the spiritual enemy of christians Blackbird. This is what Joyce says. I know of God, I just don't know the God of christians.

if you don't believe in the christian definition of God then that makes you the spiritual enemy of christians Blackbird. This is what Joyce says. I know of God, I just don't know the God of christians.

Sekhemu,

I understand her sentiments, but it reveals a level of stubbornness which does not allow for light to enter. She has decidely drawn the battlelines and we wage war. I accept this reality, although I wish not to understand it. Certainly, enemies are enemies whether they be spiritual or physical. I much rather for her to take a knife and shed my blood like her Hebrew predecessors are often documented in doing. Alas, such is the fate of the tolerant at the hands of the intolerant. We make life and living so complicated. Sickness, indeed. Even if aggressive practical use of the ATRs could liberate our people like no belief, since we have been here, has done thus far - it would still be perceived as being oppositional. The question then becomes....?

Blackbird (assuming the armour of Ogun to accomodate my foe)

Question for you Radical faith and any other christian on this thread. How do you resolve the fact that tens and tens of millions of people were slaughtered by Christians in the name of religion.

Not only were they killed but their land was confiscated. Are modern day christians willing to admit that they live on land that was stolen from others, that these very same christians broke up families and did nothing to repair the damage done?

Your President a christian, yet advocates killing Saddam Hussein and other people, why are you christians so silent on these issues?

I guess since these(us) people don't subscribe to worshipping the creator the way you do, we deserve what ever we get, right?

if you don't believe in the christian definition of God then that makes you the spiritual enemy of christians Blackbird. This is what Joyce says. I know of God, I just don't know the God of christians.

Sekhemu said: if you don't believe in the christian definition of God then that makes you the spiritual enemy of christians Blackbird. This is what Joyce says.

Now you had to know you were calling me off of my "break" from this thread when you said that :peace: . You KNEW you were going to get my attention. That's what I love about you...you won't leave me alone. You must be falling in love. Here's a latte for you sweetie. :coffee:
Now Sekhemu, don't get caught with your pants down. I will give you a hundred $$$ if you can paste where I said: If you don't believe in the christian definition of God then that makes you the spiritual enemy of christians. Go find it and bring it here and I will give you $$$ 100 bucks.

...waiting.

Sekhemu said: if you don't believe in the christian definition of God then that makes you the spiritual enemy of christians Blackbird. This is what Joyce says.

Now you had to know you were calling me off of my "break" from this thread when you said that :peace: . You KNEW you were going to get my attention. That's what I love about you...you won't leave me alone. You must be falling in love. Here's a latte for you sweetie. :coffee:
Now Sekhemu, don't get caught with your pants down. I will give you a hundred $$$ if you can paste where I said: If you don't believe in the christian definition of God then that makes you the spiritual enemy of christians. Go find it and bring it here and I will give you $$$ 100 bucks.

...waiting.

Greetings Joyce,

What makes someone spiritual enemies?

Blackbird

Question for you Radical faith and any other christian on this thread. How do you resolve the fact that tens and tens of millions of people were slaughtered by Christians in the name of religion.

Not only were they killed but their land was confiscated. Are modern day christians willing to admit that they live on land that was stolen from others, that these very same christians broke up families and did nothing to repair the damage done?

Your President a christian, yet advocates killing Saddam Hussein and other people, why are you christians so silent on these issues?

I guess since these(us) people don't subscribe to worshipping the creator the way you do, we deserve what ever we get, right?

Now Sekhemu,

You must know that men folks have used slaves, religion, women, politics, media and any other tool for advancing their own selfish agendas. It's always been that way and unfortunately yall will always be that way.

That's why I don't follow men. They can be so whack at times. I am not a Christian for religion sake, I am one for Jesus sake. I follow Him in whom there is no fault...not the President or any of you other guys...no offense...but yall just can't seem to get it completely right when it comes to doing right. Christianity is a religion like any other. But to be a Christian, requires a personal relationship with Jesus Christ Himself. That comes by prayer...simply spending time with Him in meditation. In doing this, He reveals Himself to you and take you to a higher level in your way of thinking and living. All who cry Lord, Lord are not Christians.

~j

Greetings Joyce,

What makes someone spiritual enemies?

Blackbird


Blackbird, this is a good question and I'm glad you provided the room for me to answer it rather than taking what I've stated in the past out of context.

As you know, I have told you that we could be spiritual enemies...could be. If you go back to when you and I first "met" on the Melanin thread you will see that that is what I said. I wanted you to know this upfront when you expressed to me about your involvement in the realm of the spirit. Also, I stressed to you that Sekhemu and I ARE friends on one level of life, but enemies on another. What did I mean by this?

Sekhemu and I could have lunch together and talk about how the Pistons whipped up on the Lakers. We could talk about things that concern the natural world around us and be in complete agreement with each other. I know this, just by the way we've conversed together on other threads. However, when it comes to the things of the spirit, the picture is totally different. Why? Because what he represents (not him personally) in the realm of the spirit world, is in opposition to what I represent. Who I represent is in total opposition to who he represents. In other words, what we represent is in total opposition and one cannot coexist with the other...peacefully. I hope this makes things a little for you. I love Sekhemu, but I do not love what he represents in the spirit world for that is in opposition to what I represent in the spirit realm with my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Light and darkness do not mix and never will. I know you are familiar with the term "spiritual warfare". As I've told you before, I am a prayer warrior, a priest. Being such, I have been given power to tear down the strongholds of the enemies presented to me. In the spirit realm, I carry a sword...all of the time. Whereas most Christians are not even aware of the spirit realm around them, I am very much aware of it. My spiritual warfare is NOT with humans, but with principalities in high places, against certain powers, against rulers of darkness and against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

The last enemy is death itself...and there will come a time when it will be no more.

Blackbird, this is a good question and I'm glad you provided the room for me to answer it rather than taking what I've stated in the past out of context.

As you know, I have told you that we could be spiritual enemies...could be. If you go back to when you and I first "met" on the Melanin thread you will see that that is what I said. I wanted you to know this upfront when you expressed to me about your involvement in the realm of the spirit. Also, I stressed to you that Sekhemu and I ARE friends on one level of life, but enemies on another. What did I mean by this?

Sekhemu and I could have lunch together and talk about how the Pistons whipped up on the Lakers. We could talk about things that concern the natural world around us and be in complete agreement with each other. I know this, just by the way we've conversed together on other threads. However, when it comes to the things of the spirit, the picture is totally different. Why? Because what he represents (not him personally) in the realm of the spirit world, is in opposition to what I represent. Who I represent is in total opposition to who he represents. In other words, what we represent is in total opposition and one cannot coexist with the other...peacefully. I hope this makes things a little for you. I love Sekhemu, but I do not love what he represents in the spirit world for that is in opposition to what I represent in the spirit realm with my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Light and darkness do not mix and never will. I know you are familiar with the term "spiritual warfare". As I've told you before, I am a prayer warrior, a priest. Being such, I have been given power to tear down the strongholds of the enemies presented to me. In the spirit realm, I carry a sword...all of the time. Whereas most Christians are not even aware of the spirit realm around them, I am very much aware of it. My spiritual warfare is NOT with humans, but with principalities in high places, against certain powers, against rulers of darkness and against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

The last enemy is death itself...and there will come a time when it will be no more.


Greetings Joyce,

You answered your own challenge to Sekhemu. Also, read what I wrote in the thread "Religious Diversity and Afrikan Input."

Blackbird

Greetings Joyce,

You answered your own challenge to Sekhemu. Also, read what I wrote in the thread "Religious Diversity and Afrikan Input."

Blackbird

Joyce wrote: "Light and darkness do not mix and never will."

Funny, night and day mix perfectly well.

Blackbird

Joyce wrote: "Light and darkness do not mix and never will."

Funny, night and day mix perfectly well.

Blackbird


What I said still stands and might I add that Light has no fellowship with darkness. You can argue by yourself about night and day mixing, I for one have never seen them coexist but if you have, hats off to you. Your response to what I answered concerning the question you put to me is as different and night and day. Somehow, I thought your response would not be as shallow as..."Funny, night and day mix perfectly well."

....hmmm. :look:

What I said still stands and might I add that Light has no fellowship with darkness. You can argue by yourself about night and day mixing, I for one have never seen them coexist but if you have, hats off to you. Your response to what I answered concerning the question you put to me is as different and night and day. Somehow, I thought your response would not be as shallow as..."Funny, night and day mix perfectly well."

....hmmm. :look:


No, Joyce. From a Christian interpretation, yes. But from a natural standpoint no. The Yin balances the Yang. For dark not to exist, there would be no light. There would be no such thing as /day/, if night and daytime did not fellowship. In life, there must always be balance. Always.

"Somehow, I thought your response would not be as shallow as...."

Lol!!! Iba e....

Ire-O!!!!
Blackbird

Joyce wrote: "In the spirit realm, I carry a sword...all of the time."

Hmm, you sound like Ogun, but I believe, especially coming from your context, you are a children of Obatala Ayaguna.

Ire-O!!! (Blessings)
Blackbird

No, Joyce. From a Christian interpretation, yes. But from a natural standpoint no. The Yin balances the Yang. For dark not to exist, there would be no light. There would be no such thing as /day/, if night and daytime did not fellowship. In life, there must always be balance. Always.

"Somehow, I thought your response would not be as shallow as...."

Lol!!! Iba e....

Ire-O!!!!
Blackbird


You are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

1 Thessalonians 5:5

Joyce wrote: "In the spirit realm, I carry a sword...all of the time."

Hmm, you sound like Ogun, but I believe, especially coming from your context, you are a children of Obatala Ayaguna.

Ire-O!!! (Blessings)
Blackbird

How dare you insult me like that! I am a child of God...He is the true and living God...His Son Is Jesus...I am aligned with Him and no other. For Obatala did not sacrifice his life for me...This one did...

Isaiah 53
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

I am HIS child...none other. Don't insult me like that again.

i beheld satan as lightning fall from heaven (luke 10:18)


lucifer also means light-bringer...

advocates of christianity please do not be so one-sided in your rational concerning the bible, because the devil will fool ya...
one love
khasm

That is so true. He sure can't fool God though. :rolling:

Sekhemu said: if you don't believe in the christian definition of God then that makes you the spiritual enemy of christians Blackbird. This is what Joyce says.

Now you had to know you were calling me off of my "break" from this thread when you said that :peace: . You KNEW you were going to get my attention. That's what I love about you...you won't leave me alone. You must be falling in love. Here's a latte for you sweetie. :coffee:
Now Sekhemu, don't get caught with your pants down. I will give you a hundred $$$ if you can paste where I said: If you don't believe in the christian definition of God then that makes you the spiritual enemy of christians. Go find it and bring it here and I will give you $$$ 100 bucks.

...waiting.


You can keep the latte Joyce, thanks but no thanks.

True you didn't outright say that if one doesn't belife in the christian definition of God that makes them the spiritual enemy of God. However in post #39 of 2 gods of the bible, you said. You can be friends with me on one level but you are spiritual enemies with me on another.

knowing that I do not believe in the Christian god would you say that because of what I know and practice, ATR and that all black people who do not believe in your God would be an enemy of your faith?

Or is it just the ones who don't accept your jesus as their savior?

Now Sekhemu,

You must know that men folks have used slaves, religion, women, politics, media and any other tool for advancing their own selfish agendas. It's always been that way and unfortunately yall will always be that way.

That's why I don't follow men. They can be so whack at times. I am not a Christian for religion sake, I am one for Jesus sake. I follow Him in whom there is no fault...not the President or any of you other guys...no offense...but yall just can't seem to get it completely right when it comes to doing right. Christianity is a religion like any other. But to be a Christian, requires a personal relationship with Jesus Christ Himself. That comes by prayer...simply spending time with Him in meditation. In doing this, He reveals Himself to you and take you to a higher level in your way of thinking and living. All who cry Lord, Lord are not Christians.

~j

This is a poor try at transference! By trying to make this a gender issue, I guess Charlemagne and Queen Victoria were pacifists.... you have tried to take the onus off of the fact that christians, mosty europeans have eradicated entire cultures in the name of the Christian god.


Moreover they have forced their religion on the minds of hearts of Native and African people. No where can you point to any African, or native civilization that have forced their beliefs on another country or continent the way Christians have.


The very fact that the majority of black people in this country and the rest of the western hemisphere worship a God that was forced upon us is proof enough, of the might makes right rule of law of a christian lifestyle.

For 500 hundred years black people have been worshipping a God that was brought to them by outsiders. But the descendants of these very same christians, your friend the caucasian, are certainly not about to re-introduce us to what we believed in before they arrived are they?

The departed relatives and loved ones of black people are all around us. Whether you agree with it or not. And the fact that they are no longer being sustained in the spiritual realm is what keeps the connection broken.

This is what the slave master was so effective at doing here in America, unlike the french, portuguese and spanish colonies. It is my contention that although these respective countries practice catholicism, the orishas are very much an integral part in their daily life, and I suspect this is why family the family structure is probably more intact than what we as black americans experience.

Christianity has not allowed black people in this country to honor their ancestors as living functioning beings. In fact it has done just the opposite.
Our ancestors have served as an intermediary between the living and the creator. Branches and trunks on a tree. Where is this tree today?

How dare you insult me like that! I am a child of God...He is the true and living God...His Son Is Jesus...I am aligned with Him and no other. For Obatala did not sacrifice his life for me...This one did...

Isaiah 53
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

I am HIS child...none other. Don't insult me like that again.That is not prophesying of Jesus, it is prophesy of the prophets to come, like Jeremiah.

This is the prophecy:

Isa:53:7: He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.


This is Jeremiah describing an event that occurred in his life:

Jer:11:19: But I was like a lamb or an ox that is brought to the slaughter; and I knew not that they had devised devices against me, saying, Let us destroy the tree with the fruit thereof, and let us cut him off from the land of the living, that his name may be no more remembered.


The prophets of the Old Testaments were going through much turmoil in trying to convey the message of GOD too Israel. Isaiah is foreseeing and speaking about that turmoil and how the people would rise against them. Due to that fact that the prophets were Israelites they were berried right along side the very people they were trying to warn.


Isa:53:9: And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.


Most of the prophecy that you servants of Jesus have stolen from the Old Testaments can be found within the Old Testaments themselves. The book itself is the greatest witness against you.

This is a poor try at transference! By trying to make this a gender issue, I guess Charlemagne and Queen Victoria were pacifists.... you have tried to take the onus off of the fact that christians, mosty europeans have eradicated entire cultures in the name of the Christian god.


Moreover they have forced their religion on the minds of hearts of Native and African people. No where can you point to any African, or native civilization that have forced their beliefs on another country or continent the way Christians have.


The very fact that the majority of black people in this country and the rest of the western hemisphere worship a God that was forced upon us is proof enough, of the might makes right rule of law of a christian lifestyle.

For 500 hundred years black people have been worshipping a God that was brought to them by outsiders. But the descendants of these very same christians, your friend the caucasian, are certainly not about to re-introduce us to what we believed in before they arrived are they?

The departed relatives and loved ones of black people are all around us. Whether you agree with it or not. And the fact that they are no longer being sustained in the spiritual realm is what keeps the connection broken.

This is what the slave master was so effective at doing here in America, unlike the french, portuguese and spanish colonies. It is my contention that although these respective countries practice catholicism, the orishas are very much an integral part in their daily life, and I suspect this is why family the family structure is probably more intact than what we as black americans experience.

Christianity has not allowed black people in this country to honor their ancestors as living functioning beings. In fact it has done just the opposite.
Our ancestors have served as an intermediary between the living and the creator. Branches and trunks on a tree. Where is this tree today?Did you know that what you are talking about was prophesied in the Old Testaments?


Dan:11:31: And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Dan:7:25: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


All of that is how the servants of Jesus pillaged the earth and setup their god. As you can see it does have a time limit as confirmed by the New Testaments also.


Rv:20:6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

We can’t truly determine the time of the end to the reign of the savants of Jesus, for no man can appoint GOD a time. But we can clearly see there will be a time. The true Messiah is not depicted in the Old Testaments as having a time limit to the Kingdom he will build. In understanding the New Testaments you have to understand Satan. When Satan lies, he must also speak a truth. If one is not endowed with the truth of GOD, one will fail in distinguishing the truth from the lie. All we can do is warn the people and let this Wonderful plan of GOD’s of dividing the people play itself out. The LORD is purifying Israel.

When Satan lies, he must also speak a truth.
How do you know this? Can you give us an example?


The LORD is purifying Israel.
Please clarify...

How do you know this? Can you give us an example?



Please clarify...

Truth:
27: Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Lie:
28: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Just follow the many passages were Jesus says, “But I say unto you”.

The Mark:

We all are aware of Revelations and the Mark of the Beast. The Mark being that of a beast is a lie to confuse servants of Jesus in a way that will make them be against the Holy people of GOD. It can be found in Revelations about the Mark of GOD. But is can also be found and more pronounced a lie about a mark of the beast. The mark that is mostly promoted within the circle of the servants of Jesus is the mark of the beast. Most of them are not aware of this:

Ezek:9:4: And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
5: And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
6: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

From this we can see and confirm proof positive that it is GOD that has the Mark placed on the foreheads of those that fill sadness and pity because the people rebelled against GOD. These are the people that do not rebel, and do not worship other god, do not deny GOD. Those can be confirmed as receiving the Mark of GOD. This is that truth in the New Testaments:

Rv:7:3: Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


That’s the one small reference to the true Mark of GOD. The lie is the mark of the beast, and as you can see they covered all possible locations of the Mark of GOD due to this from the Old Testaments.

Deut:6:8: And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Deut:11:18: Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.


With it not being clear as to an actual mark on the hand or forehead they just covered all possibilities by writings this:


Rv:13:16: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:


What this lie produces is an army of people that will be confused as to the mark. When the people of GOD receive GODs confirmed Mark. They will be convinced and preaching it is the mark of the beast. The mark of the beast cannot be confirmed with the Old Testaments or the Word of GOD. That is because it is a lie; there will not be a mark of the beast. So in Revelations, whom are they calling the beast?

There is more revealing Satanic information in Revelations. Why do you thank the Pope tried to get Revelations removed from the New Testaments? That old man sets up there reading this stuff all day; he has seen what I have seen. The true revealing of Jesus and his purpose.

Understand, Satan is one of the most loyal servants of GOD. He was the first creation of GOD. Satan was permitted to influence the heathens to create the New Testaments. It is being used to purify Israel. All through the Old Testaments GODs main objective is to create a Holy people. People that would serve, worship and uplift HIM only, HIS own people.

GOD knows if an Israelite can walk through the fire (turned into slaves, striped of HIS knowledge, induced of a false god, forced to serve that god) but yet given a hint of his original GOD and turns back to that GOD to worship, serve and uplift; that would be an Israelite that would never rebel against HIM, that would never put another beside HIM and that would never serve the gods of the heathens. That would be a purified Israelite.


Zech:13:9: And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.


This will occur after all the people have been given the word that Jesus and any religion that causes one to perceive and believe in GOD as less then what HE is, is falsehood, trickery, a test permitted by the Mighty GOD.

GOD has suggested that only a third will return to HIM purified. And all of this was told to us almost in the beginning of the Book, but no one is listening to GOD.


Deut:13:3: Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Truth:
27: Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Lie:
28: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Just follow the many passages were Jesus says, “But I say unto you.”
I am aghast in stupefaction at the absurdity of this statement, Music Producer. Prophet Jesus (saw) is not "lying" in the verse you quoted...he is revising a Law of Moses...


The Mark:

We all are aware of Revelations and the Mark of the Beast. The Mark being that of a beast is a lie to confuse servants of Jesus in a way that will make them be against the Holy people of GOD. It can be found in Revelations about the Mark of GOD. But is can also be found and more pronounced a lie about a mark of the beast. The mark that is mostly promoted within the circle of the servants of Jesus is the mark of the beast. Most of them are not aware of this:

Ezekiel 9:4 - And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
5 - And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
6 - Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

From this we can see and confirm proof positive that it is GOD that has the Mark placed on the foreheads of those that fill sadness and pity because the people rebelled against GOD. These are the people that do not rebel, and do not worship other god, do not deny GOD. Those can be confirmed as receiving the Mark of GOD. This is that truth in the New Testament.
Ezekiel 9:1-6 reads as follows, under the heading, "The Lord Gives the Command to Punish Jerusalem.":

"After that I heard the Lord shout, 'Come to Jerusalem, you men chosen to destroy the city. And bring your weapons!' I saw six men come through the north gate of the temple, each one holding a deadly weapon. A seventh man dressed in a linen robe was with them, and he was carrying things to write with. The men went into the temple and stood by the bronze altar.

The brightness of God's glory then left its place above the statues of the winged creatures inside the temple and moved to the entrance. The Lord said to the man in the linen robe, 'Walk through the city of Jerusalem and mark the forehead of anyone who is truly upset and sad about the disgusting things that are being done here.' He turned to the other six men and said, 'Follow him and put to death everyone who doesn't have a mark on their forehead. Show no mercy or pity! Kill men and women, parents and children. Begin here at my temple and be sure not to harm those who are marked.' The men immediately killed the leaders who were standing there."

As you can plainly see, the people who were complaining about how unjust they were being treated were marked on the forehead by the man the Lord sent to do this. It has nothing to do with "lies" or the "mark of the beast," or any other frivolous fairytale that you have proffered here...


Revelations 7:3 - Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

That’s the one small reference to the true Mark of GOD. The lie is the mark of the beast, and as you can see they covered all possible locations of the Mark of GOD due to this from the Old Testament.
Quoting Revelations 7:1-4, under the heading, "The 144,000 Are Marked for God.":

"After this I saw four angels. Each one was standing on one of the Earth's four corners. The angels held back the four winds, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. These angels had also been given the power to harm the earth and the sea. Teh I saw another angel come up from where the Sun rises in the east, and he was ready to put the mark of the living God on people. He shouted to the four angels, 'Don't harm the earth or the sea or any tree! Wait until I have marked the foreheads of the servants of God.' Then I heard how many people had been marked on the forehead. There were 144,000, and they came from every tribe of Israel."

My earlier response is applicable here also...


Deuteronomy 6:8 - And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Quoting Deuteronomy 6:1-8, under the heading, "The Most Important Commandment":

"Moses said to Israel:

The Lord to me to give you these laws and teachings, so you can obey them in the land he is giving you. Soon you will cross the Jordan River and take that land. And if you are your descendants want to live a long time, you must always worship the Lord and obey his laws. Pay attention, Israel! Our ancestors worshiped the Lord, and he promised to give us this land that is rich with milk and honey. Be careful to obey him, and you will become a successful and powerful nation.

Listen, Israel! The Lord our God is the only true God! So love the Lord with all your heart, soul and strength. Memorize his laws and tell them to your children over and over again. Talk aboout them all the time, whether you're at home or walking along the road or getting to bed at night, or getting up in the morning. Write down copies and tie them to your wrists and foreheads to help you obey them. Write these laws on the door frames of your homes and on your town gates."

Plain English renders your commentaries re: the markings ludicrous...


Deuteronomy 11:18 - Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
Deuteronomy 11:18 repeats Deuteronomy 6:8, however it ends as follows:

"Then you and your descendants will live a long time that the Lord promised your ancestors. Your families will live there as long as the sky is above the Earth." (Deuteronomy 11:21)


With it not being clear as to an actual mark on the hand or forehead they just covered all possibilities by writings this:

Revelations 13:16 - And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.

What this lie produces is an army of people that will be confused as to the mark. When the people of GOD receive GODs confirmed Mark. They will be convinced and preaching it is the mark of the beast. The mark of the beast cannot be confirmed with the Old Testaments or the Word of GOD. That is because it is a lie; there will not be a mark of the beast. So in Revelations, whom are they calling the beast?
I'll quote Revelations 13:11-18. It reads as follows, under the heading, "The Two Beasts":

"I now saw another beast. This one came out of the ground. It had two horns like a lamb, but spoke like a dragon. It worked for the beast whose fatal wound had been healed. And it used all its authority to force the Earth and its people to worship that beast. It worked mighty miracles, and while people watched, it even made fire come down from the sky.

The second beast fooled people on Earth by working miracles for the first one. Then it talked them into making an idol in the form of the beast that did not die after being wounded by a sword. It was allowed to put breath into the idol, so that it could speak. Everyone who refused to worship the idol of the beast was put to death. All people were forced to put a mark on their right hand or forehead. Whether they were powerful or weak, rich or poor, free people or slaves, they all had to have this mark, or else they could not but or sell anything. This mark stood for the name of the beast and for the number of its name.

You need wisdom to understand the number of the beast! But if you are smart enough, you can figure this out. Its number is 666, and it stands for a person."

Once again the Scriptures refute your nebulous gibberish...

There is more revealing Satanic information in Revelations. Why do you thank the Pope tried to get Revelations removed from the New Testament? That old man sets up there reading this stuff all day; he has seen what I have seen. The true revealing of Jesus and his purpose.

Understand, Satan is one of the most loyal servants of GOD. He was the first creation of GOD. Satan was permitted to influence the heathens to create the New Testament. It is being used to purify Israel. All through the Old Testament GOD's main objective is to create a Holy people. People that would serve, worship and uplift HIM only, HIS own people.
Earlier you said the Lord will purify Israel...now which is it?


GOD knows if an Israelite can walk through the fire (turned into slaves, striped of HIS knowledge, induced of a false god, forced to serve that god), but yet given a hint of his original GOD and turns back to that GOD to worship, serve and uplift; that would be an Israelite that would never rebel against HIM; that would never put another beside HIM, and that would never serve the gods of the heathens. That would be a purified Israelite.
Maybe that would have been a purified Israelite in Biblical times, but certainly not a purified Israeli today...


Zechariah 13:9 - And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

This will occur after all the people have been given the word that Jesus and any religion that causes one to perceive and believe in GOD as less than what HE is, is falsehood, trickery, a test permitted by the Mighty GOD.
I shall quote Zechariah 13:7-9, under the heading, "A Wounded Shepherd and Scattered Sheep."

"The Lord All-Powerful said:

My sword, wake up! Attack my shepherd and friend. Strike down the shepherd! Scatter the little sheep, and I will destroy them. Nowhere in the land will more than a third of them be left alive. Then I will purify them and put them to the test, just as gold and silver are purified and tested. They will pray in my name, and I will answer them. I will say, 'You are my people,' and they will reply, 'You, Lord, are our God!'"

Certainly this Scripture is not the basis for the nonsense that you have proffered...


GOD has suggested that only a third will return to HIM purified. And all of this was told to us almost in the beginning of the Book, but no one is listening to GOD.
What are you listening to?


Deuteronomy 13:3 - Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
I shall quote Deuteronomy 13:3-5, under the heading, "Don't Worship Other Gods.":

"Moses said to Israel:

Someday a prophet may come along who is able to perform miracles or tell what will happen in the future. Then the prophet may say, 'Let's start worshiping some new gods - some gods that we know nothing about.' If the prophet says this, don't listen! The Lord your God will be watching to find out whether or not you love Him with all your heart and soul. You must be completely faithful to the Lord. Worship and obey only the Lord and do this with fear and trembling, because He rescued you from slavery in Egypt." If the prophet tells you to disobey the Lord your God and to stop worshiping Him, then that prophet is evil and must be put to death."

Once again the Scriptures refute your baseless opinions...and renders them null and void...

Deut:4:2: Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.



Dan:7:25: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


I personally do not give anyone the authority to alter the LAW. If it is something you want to commit and confess too, go right ahead, it is of you own free will.

From my point of view in Dan:7:25 the “Most High” is GOD. From servants of Jesus point of view it would be Jesus. So as I have said, in order to understand all of this you must see GOD as the Highest Authority, you must give HIM that respect, if not these words mean nothing to you. The entire Old Testaments mean nothing to you.

But from my point of view those words are a clear description as to what Jesus has done.

Even in your newer translations of Ezekiel 9: 1-6 it continues to show GOD as being accountable for the Mark. But you cleverly wrote, “about how unjust they were being treated”. You and I both understand, they were complaining, feeling sorrow and pity about how GOD was being treated. I have already shown you how these newer translations are fowl and serve one purpose. That purpose is to hide that fact that Jesus is Satan.

And yes, you are correct there are more references to the Mark of GOD in Revelations, I missed it. But I would like to ask servants of Jesus. What mark in revelations are you more familiar with, the mark of the beast or the Mark of GOD? Be truthful and don’t lie for the sake of your religion.

Aqil even with your newer translations what I have shown you remains. But you try to play like it does not. I have seen many of these newer translation that servants of Jesus are now using, these newer translations are alterings of the word, if you are willing to commit to these things, confess these things before GOD, it is of your own free will. Satan/Jesus works for GOD, so that same image that you bow down to and worship him hanging on the cross, you will see him. But he will not be hanging on no cross. He will be standing there with his sword drawn, waiting on the word from GOD. The same GOD one must deny in order to serve the New Testaments.

Before we were forced on that slave ship, we had a religion and a GOD. What are the odds that it was the GOD and religion of the Old Testaments?

Deuteronomy 4:2 - Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
I shall quote Deuteronomy 4:1&2, under the heading, "Israel Must Obey God":

"Moses said:

Israel, listen to these laws and teachings! If you obey them, you will live, and you will go in and take the land that the Lord is giving you. He is the God your ancestors worshiped, and now He is your God. I am telling you everything He has commanded, so don't add anything or take anything away."

So what is your point about what Moses is saying here?


Daniel 7:25 - And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Daniel 7:25-28 reads as follows, under the heading, "The Meaning of Daniel's Vision":

"Daniel wrote:

'This king will speak evil of God Most High, and he will be cruel to God's chosen ones. He will try to change God's Law and the sacred seasons. And he will be able to do this for a time, two times, and half a time. But he will finally be judged, and his kingdom completely destroyed. Then the greatest kingdom of all will be given to the chosen ones of God Most High. His kingdom will be eternal, and all others will serve and obey Him.'

That is what I saw and heard. I turned pale with fear and kept it all to myself."


I personally do not give anyone the authority to alter the LAW. If it is something you want to commit and confess too, go right ahead, it is of you own free will.
You can't give anyone - other than members of your own family, or an employee if you have your own business - the authority to do anything...


From my point of view in Daniel 7:25, the “Most High” is GOD. From servants of Jesus point of view it would be Jesus. So as I have said, in order to understand all of this you must see GOD as the Highest Authority, you must give HIM that respect, if not these words mean nothing to you, the entire Old Testament means nothing to you.
Daniel is describing what he saw in a vision in chapter 7:25-28. He speaks of the "Most High God." And your second sentence is a non sequitur because Jesus is not God...


But from my point of view those words are a clear description as to what Jesus has done.
What do you mean by this?


Even in your newer translations of Ezekiel 9:1-6 it continues to show GOD as being accountable for the Mark. But you cleverly wrote, “about how unjust they were being treated”. You and I both understand, they were complaining, feeling sorrow and pity about how GOD was being treated.
Not according to scripture. To reiterate: Ezekiel 9:1-6 reads as follows, under the heading, "The Lord Gives the Command to Punish Jerusalem.":

"After that I heard the Lord shout, 'Come to Jerusalem, you men chosen to destroy the city. And bring your weapons!' I saw six men come through the north gate of the temple, each one holding a deadly weapon. A seventh man dressed in a linen robe was with them, and he was carrying things to write with. The men went into the temple and stood by the bronze altar.

The brightness of God's glory then left its place above the statues of the winged creatures inside the temple and moved to the entrance. The Lord said to the man in the linen robe, 'Walk through the city of Jerusalem and mark the forehead of anyone who is truly upset and sad about the disgusting things that are being done here.' He turned to the other six men and said, 'Follow him and put to death everyone who doesn't have a mark on their forehead. Show no mercy or pity! Kill men and women, parents and children. Begin here at my temple and be sure not to harm those who are marked.' The men immediately killed the leaders who were standing there."

As you can plainly see, the people who were complaining about how unjust they were being treated were marked on the forehead by the man the Lord sent to do this. It has nothing to do with "lies" or the "mark of the beast," or any other frivolous fairytale that you have proffered here...

I stand on the merits of my commentary.

I have already shown you how these newer translations are fowl and serve one purpose. That purpose is to hide that fact that Jesus is Satan.
First of all the correct word is "foul," not "fowl." Secondly, you haven't shown me anything. Thirdly, what you have proffered here is pure nonsense...


And yes, you are correct. There are more references to the Mark of GOD in Revelations, I missed it. But I would like to ask servants of Jesus: What mark in revelations are you more familiar with, the mark of the beast or the Mark of GOD? Be truthful and don’t lie for the sake of your religion.
John's hallucinations on the island of Patmos are not good references, Music Producer...


Aqil, even with your newer translations what I have shown you remains. But you try to play like it does not. I have seen many of these newer translations that servants of Jesus are now using. These newer translations are alterings of the word, if you are willing to commit to these things, confess these things before GOD, it is of your own free will.
You haven't shown me anything...and what newer translations have you seen?


Satan/Jesus works for GOD, so that same image that you bow down to and worship him hanging on the cross, you will see him. But he will not be hanging on no cross. He will be standing there with his sword drawn, waiting on the word from GOD. The same GOD one must deny in order to serve the New Testament.
What is the source of your information?


Before we were forced on that slave ship, we had a religion and a GOD. What are the odds that it was the GOD and religion of the Old Testament?
Few to none...99% of the slaves brought to this country were Muslims...

http://www.yashanet.com/library/antisem.htm

"Om"

This is a poor try at transference! By trying to make this a gender issue, I guess Charlemagne and Queen Victoria were pacifists.... you have tried to take the onus off of the fact that christians, mosty europeans have eradicated entire cultures in the name of the Christian god.


Moreover they have forced their religion on the minds of hearts of Native and African people. No where can you point to any African, or native civilization that have forced their beliefs on another country or continent the way Christians have.


The very fact that the majority of black people in this country and the rest of the western hemisphere worship a God that was forced upon us is proof enough, of the might makes right rule of law of a christian lifestyle.

For 500 hundred years black people have been worshipping a God that was brought to them by outsiders. But the descendants of these very same christians, your friend the caucasian, are certainly not about to re-introduce us to what we believed in before they arrived are they?

The departed relatives and loved ones of black people are all around us. Whether you agree with it or not. And the fact that they are no longer being sustained in the spiritual realm is what keeps the connection broken.

This is what the slave master was so effective at doing here in America, unlike the french, portuguese and spanish colonies. It is my contention that although these respective countries practice catholicism, the orishas are very much an integral part in their daily life, and I suspect this is why family the family structure is probably more intact than what we as black americans experience.

Christianity has not allowed black people in this country to honor their ancestors as living functioning beings. In fact it has done just the opposite.
Our ancestors have served as an intermediary between the living and the creator. Branches and trunks on a tree. Where is this tree today?

Sekhemu,

You are so wrong, but then again, why try to prove a point on this with someone who don't even believe that God is the Supreme being. This to me is pointless discussion. But I will and must say this...White man did not bring the gospel to us...we brought it to them. Now do your research please and stop stating errors. The people in the bible are black people...not white people. They are our ancestors. You can reject them if you want to, but please stop taking the credit from them and giving it to the white man.

YOU said: For 500 hundred years black people have been worshipping a God that was brought to them by outsiders.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Read the "begets" from Genesis onward towards Chronicles and the geography. You will know that all of them were black people and could not by any means been white.
Just because they didn't subscribe to Nommo the half fish god, does not mean they must have been white.

Few to none...99% of the slaves brought to this country were Muslims...

Aqil, I would have to disagree. Yes, some Muslims were brought here, but not 99%. I think one of my ancestors was Muslim. I search the census records of 1870 and he was already close to 70 years old. His name was Wali. His granddaughter's name was Silla (in one record) and Sela (in another). Silla was the name of a town in eastern Senegal close to present-day Kayes. This was an Islamic region.

However, relatively speaking, very few people came from regions like this one. This can be attested by ship documentation, auction records and the folk traditions of African-Americans themselves. What are your sources?

Blackbird

You can keep the latte Joyce, thanks but no thanks.

True you didn't outright say that if one doesn't belife in the christian definition of God that makes them the spiritual enemy of God. However in post #39 of 2 gods of the bible, you said. You can be friends with me on one level but you are spiritual enemies with me on another.

knowing that I do not believe in the Christian god would you say that because of what I know and practice, ATR and that all black people who do not believe in your God would be an enemy of your faith?

Or is it just the ones who don't accept your jesus as their savior?

Please understand the depth of what I am said, Sekhemu. Only on the level of spiritual warfare. If you are not familiar with that term at all, then forgive me, we may not be spiritual enemies at all. But I will say that some of the spirits that I have fought against in the spirit realm were profoundly tribal and evil in nature. Maybe you are not a warrior in the spirit realm, so therefore, I apologize for calling you my spiritual enemy if that is not the case. Let's just say we are opposed to one another in the realm of the spirit. You don't subscribe to what I subscribe and I certainly don't subscribe to what you subscribe to. How bout dat???

But I will say that some of the spirits that I have fought against in the spirit realm were profoundly tribal and evil in nature.


ok...this conversation has gotten too deep for me :yo: :lol:
one love
khasm

I hear ya Khasm. :lol: I really didn't want to come out with it, but Sekhemu has a way of drawing things out of me. :lol: Spiritual Warfare is indeed a very deep and serious venture at that. We are spiritual beings moreso than physical, but most people will never realize the depth of this "invisible" environment and it's effects on our daily lives.

I shall roll back into my corner now... :roll:

Sekhemu,

You are so wrong, but then again, why try to prove a point on this with someone who don't even believe that God is the Supreme being. This to me is pointless discussion. But I will and must say this...White man did not bring the gospel to us...we brought it to them. Now do your research please and stop stating errors. The people in the bible are black people...not white people. They are our ancestors. You can reject them if you want to, but please stop taking the credit from them and giving it to the white man.

YOU said: For 500 hundred years black people have been worshipping a God that was brought to them by outsiders.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Read the "begets" from Genesis onward towards Chronicles and the geography. You will know that all of them were black people and could not by any means been white.
Just because they didn't subscribe to Nommo the half fish god, does not mean they must have been white.



STOP misrepresenting my beliefs. If you can't be honest do not mention my name. I said I believe in my God, not yours. There is a qualitative difference. That does not mean I don't believe in a supreme being. So do not put words in my mouth. I consider that lying . You have done this several times, not only to me. And I don't appreciate it.

I said that our ancestors were forced to worship a God brought to us by outsiders. Who said anything about blacks in the bible here. It is a known fact that the majority of our ancestors bought to the western hemisphere were not christian nor did they recognize your bible or jesus

WHy do you think your friends the white christian forbid our people from using their own language and culture once they got here. Because they didn't wanting them praying to jesus in Akan? yeah right

They were ATR and Muslims.Indeed a number of them practices both and a few were falasha.

It is you who are wrong here, wrong dates, wrong geography and wrong perspective.

THe Africans who practiced christianity were known as coptics and gnostics. In northeast africa, over 1500 years ago. Before even Islam came to the motherland.

Nobody said that black people were not in the bible, the old testament. But that was not christianity, that was Judaism. THe religion appropiated by your friend the white Roman or holy roman EMPIRE. Then watered it down in 325 a.d. at nicea, and given back to their conquered masses. Including, black people.

Then last but not least passed from one white culture to another, who subsequently enslaved our people in Nigeria, Ghana, Benin, Angola, Cote' D'viore and all of west africa.

Don't play games here!

One more thing, why do you constantly refer to the Nommo as the half fish God. You obviously have a problem with this spirit. Because you never characterize your god as the lamb god, or the burning bush god do you?

With All Do ReSpect To The People Who Are Reading This , Is Christianity Being Attack ..First OverStand Something Here . The Only True Way To Have The OverStanding Of Scriptures Is To Know The Language . And Any True Theologian / Scholars / Minister / Pastor / Rabb / Imaan Etc. Will Tell You They Weren't Written In Greek / Latin / Nor Eng - Go - Lish = English . Now The Silly Ones Among You Are Going To Say The Most High Spoke All Language . And That Because You Were Told This By You Teacher Who Don't Speak The Language Or Didn't Take The Time To Learn The Language. So He Teaching You From The 1000's Of Mistranslation / Version Of Your Scriptures And Says These Are The Words Of God , And Those Who Doesn't Accept His Teaching Are Of The Devil Children And They Are Going To Burn In Hell Or They Are Not Save .. Now For Those Who Really Want To Know What Part Of The Bible Is Speaking Of The Nubians / Blacks ...If You Will Go To Genesis On Up To Noah , And Trace The Family Line Back To Adam Then You'll See What Part You Play In The Scripture < Thats If Your Not Too Lazyy > Because The White Man Never Going To Tell You Who You Really Are , If He Hasn't Told You Yet What Make You Think He Ever Will . Christian Feel Like They Are Being Attack Because 80% Of Know Nothing Of The History Of There Own Belief . And Fear Those Who Do . And Again It Because They Are To Lazyyyyy To Do Some ReSearch On Their Own , They Rather Sit Back And Just Believe Anything They Are Told And Judge Those Who Know More Then Them , Out Of Selfishness / Lazyness.. ....So The Question Is Christian Being Attack No ... How Can The Be ????

I just love how all of you bounce back and forth in this battle to prove the other ones wrong or right.... I will grab my popcorn and my Biggie drink and sit back and get my Drama on!

Go on Im watching.... ;)

I am a Christian and proud of it. And I know that we are being attacked in here. But then again, this has been the lot of Christians throughout centuries.

As for worshipping the ancestors, for a Christian, that is wrong. My grandparents and great-grands are deceased - never knew them. Yet, I knew at one time they existed, for I am here.

When it comes down to slavery, many black people forget that it was BLACKS in Africa who sold them into slavery. And many of those same blacks in Africa today are still enslaving people.

People are so prone to rant about caucasians and their atrocities, which by no means am I condoning, but we can't even get along with people of our OWN color. Look at how we fight and kill each other! The jealousy! Let one black person work hard and get a lovely home and a nice car, and other blacks get angry. I've seen this for years and we talk about unity when we are a "house divided".

We will NEVER stand due to being divided. There are many of us who KNOW the truth and we ignore fables and myths. All this Nommo talk - LOL - thank God my eyes are open to truth to know that God made MAN in His image and that He's no respecter of person.

In a few weeks we are having street witnessing to try to save the lost. We know that some will accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior and some won't.

I've wasted enough time in this forum and I can see that many black people in here are not Christians. I have cast pearls of wisdom but being attacked by people who HATE us. We are told NOT to cast our pearls before swine, so it's time to move on.

I suggest people read the Bible and pray to God for understanding. Without him, I'm nothing. I'm doing great because of Him, because of my love for Him, it has made me love ALL men and women. So, with this, I'm canceling my membership here.

There have been other black forums which were full of vicious, cussing, negative people. This forum is somewhat "toned down" but just the same,the same anger and hostility exists here. I feel sorry for those who wish to cause division. It's like we black people just have to be separated because some person who is NOT wise in the things of God said so. We follow too many "pied pipers".

Malcolm X himself came to a realization which cost him his life. His OWN black muslim brothers murdered him (not the white man). People speak of the pre-Mecca Malcolm, but when he saw that there were brothers of his faith with white skin, he realized that he could not hate them. Just like I cannot hate those of my faith with white skin.

Anger is destroying people, especially black people. It was ANGER that Malcolm's grandson had in his heart when he started the fire that killed Betty Shabazz. Yet, we don't want to own up to our anger but blame others.

Slavery ended many years ago, but black people today are spiritually in bondage. Too many of you are hollering about what the white man did centuries ago as if you yourselves had those same shackles on your feet. You accept defeat and won't allow yourselves to be victors. You blame others for your failures in life. You scream about how drugs were introduced into the neighborhood. Nobody FORCED you to take them.

Many of you want the easy way out and not work for things. Some of the stuff Bill Cosby alluded to was true. We put more value in Nike, Reebok, etc. than we do our children's education.

Well, when I became a Christian, I left the shackles of the past behind. I'm a free woman and I can have the "good of the land" because I have a Heavenly Father who is my provider.

There are many blacks like myself who work hard and are living a better life. It is guaranteed 100% by God when we obey Him. Yet, He knows that we will meet with opposition and must suffer sometimes. Those who were thrown into the lions' den or suffered other tortures; He remembers them.

Satan is a defeated foe. He is like a toothless lion with a loud roar. He knows that his days are short and he is trying to kill, steal and destroy as many as he can. Unfortunately, too many of us are playing right in his hands.

It seems to me that the gist of these discussions have nothing to do with uplifting. There are blacks who think we should wear our hair a certain way, we should only live in black communities, purchase ONLY from black people, and have no association whatsoever with non-blacks.

We need to open our eyes. We are NOT the only people on this planet. The supermarkets in our area are not black owned. The company I worked for is predominantly white. And I'm not going to live in a community with ALL black people either. My next door neighbor is white and he doesn't bother me. We leave out at the same time for work. We handle our business. There are other blacks in the neighborhood who get out and work.

There are different colors of the rainbow and different races of people. This is the way God made us. Satan is the one who caused the hatred and division. He was jealous of God and wanted glory for himself. And this is why we can't get along and hate our own people and others.

But through God I've gained wisdom. And still gaining. I'm on my way to work to try to stop a situation in which two black women are full of hatred for each other. This is our problem in a nutshell, we cannot love our brother and sister who we see, but many claim to love God who they cannot see.

I leave with no ill feelings towards anyone in here. I perceive that my words will be met with anger and hatred, but then again, they are only words. I wish my people would come to the accurate knowledge of the truth. Outside of God, there is no truth, brothers and sisters.

One day, it will be too late, so it's best to seek Him now while he can be found.

I think this forum could use a little more "Loving, Encouraging, Embracing... (don't forget the teaching) and Building our people with NO HATE ALLOWED" shown to everyone, ESPECIALLY those members whose view points you may not agree with.

Why is it that whenever someone has a dissenting or minority view point they are denounced as being disruptive and/or negative ??? It may not be widely known, but even the Reverand Dr. Martin L. King Jr. was labled as such by many of our own people back in the day.

Black folks are not a monolithic people. We represent every socioeconomic level, relgious/spiritual backround, political affiliation, and every stratum of society that exists... Yet even in these difference common ground can still be found.

Why are we so unwilling to search for it ?


Much Peace,
Akilah :spinstar:

Hey V,

I wish you wouldn't leave. Sure there are some that don't like you, but that is the case here for me also. However, I know also that I am liked by many. If you must leave, I respect that, but don't leave because of opposition. That's everywhere...even on your job. That's life. :driveby:

Respectfully...your sistah in Christ,

Joyce

STOP misrepresenting my beliefs. If you can't be honest do not mention my name. I said I believe in my God, not yours. There is a qualitative difference. That does not mean I don't believe in a supreme being. So do not put words in my mouth. I consider that lying . You have done this several times, not only to me. And I don't appreciate it.

I said that our ancestors were forced to worship a God brought to us by outsiders. Who said anything about blacks in the bible here. It is a known fact that the majority of our ancestors bought to the western hemisphere were not christian nor did they recognize your bible or jesus

WHy do you think your friends the white christian forbid our people from using their own language and culture once they got here. Because they didn't wanting them praying to jesus in Akan? yeah right

They were ATR and Muslims.Indeed a number of them practices both and a few were falasha.

It is you who are wrong here, wrong dates, wrong geography and wrong perspective.

THe Africans who practiced christianity were known as coptics and gnostics. In northeast africa, over 1500 years ago. Before even Islam came to the motherland.

Nobody said that black people were not in the bible, the old testament. But that was not christianity, that was Judaism. THe religion appropiated by your friend the white Roman or holy roman EMPIRE. Then watered it down in 325 a.d. at nicea, and given back to their conquered masses. Including, black people.

Then last but not least passed from one white culture to another, who subsequently enslaved our people in Nigeria, Ghana, Benin, Angola, Cote' D'viore and all of west africa.

Don't play games here!


Hey You, you Said: THe Africans who practiced christianity were known as coptics and gnostics. In northeast africa, over 1500 years ago. Before even Islam came to the motherland.

Nobody said that black people were not in the bible, the old testament. But that was not christianity, that was Judaism. THe religion appropiated by your friend the white Roman or holy roman EMPIRE. Then watered it down in 325 a.d. at nicea, and given back to their conquered masses. Including, black people.

:nono: Wrong...again. When God gave the 10 Commandments, He gave it to Moses...a black man...it was not appropiated to any empire...in fact, the Roman Empire was not even around. Oh brotha...you have so much knowledge, yet I search for just plain common sense. If you want to pick and choose which blacks you want to follow in respect to spirituality, go ahead my brotha. I won't be mad at cha, but don't ascribe something white as being the originators of something that STARTED with black people just because you don't like it. :rolling:

One more thing, why do you constantly refer to the Nommo as the half fish God. You obviously have a problem with this spirit. Because you never characterize your god as the lamb god, or the burning bush god do you?

Sorry, but YOU are the one who told me he was half fish. YOU described him that way. I only repeat what you have taught me. If this image of your god as being half fish is disturbing then perhaps you should rethink the way you view him. I would like to see him myself. I've always wanted to see a mermaid, because on TV, they are beautiful. Can you imagine what he must look like??? And just think...he made it all the way to Jupiter...something no man can do because he's not a god. At first, I thought he was a myth, but you say he's real so I must respect that. If you don't want me to mention your god as being half fish, I hope it's not because you are ashamed to let people know what you believe. I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is life to me. You can refer to Him as a lamb god if you'd like. I won't be mad at cha. After all, Christianity should be challenged...but remember Nommo will be challenged as well.

However, I know also that I am liked by many.

Not just liked ... loved ... :love:

:heart:

Destee

Not just liked ... loved ... :love:

:heart:

Destee


:roll: Awww...shucks! You do say the sweetest thangs. :grouphug: :wave:


~J :heart:

All servants of Jesus have been tricked into not being able to accept GOD without Jesus. This is no different from those that don’t believing in GOD because it causes one to add too GOD or put restrictions and conditions on your love for GOD, this is wrong. All through the Old Testaments GOD sent Israel saviours but you don’t see them being worshiped, uplifted, praised and you definitely don’t see them being deified and put next to GOD. They all paid the ultimate price witch is death; it was a war to free Israel from a heathen nation. What is the justification for what you are doing?

How do you think bringing judgment to the gentiles will be accomplished? It is accomplished through causing them to do or believe in something that it against GOD. And what is the one thing Israel as a whole were truly judged for? Worshipping other gods and false worship. Jesus is the sin of the gentiles and if you fall for it, it will also be your sin.

Isa:42:1: Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Mt:12:18: Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

I am a Christian and proud of it. And I know that we are being attacked in here. But then again, this has been the lot of Christians throughout centuries.

As for worshipping the ancestors, for a Christian, that is wrong. My grandparents and great-grands are deceased - never knew them. Yet, I knew at one time they existed, for I am here.

When it comes down to slavery, many black people forget that it was BLACKS in Africa who sold them into slavery. And many of those same blacks in Africa today are still enslaving people.

People are so prone to rant about caucasians and their atrocities, which by no means am I condoning, but we can't even get along with people of our OWN color. Look at how we fight and kill each other! The jealousy! Let one black person work hard and get a lovely home and a nice <A TITLE="Click for more information about car" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||cars|AA1VDw">car</A>, and other blacks get angry. I've seen this for years and we talk about unity when we are a "house divided".

We will NEVER stand due to being divided. There are many of us who KNOW the truth and we ignore fables and myths. All this Nommo talk - LOL - thank God my eyes are open to truth to know that God made MAN in His image and that He's no respecter of person.

In a few weeks we are having street witnessing to try to save the lost. We know that some will accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior and some won't.

I've wasted enough time in this forum and I can see that many black people in here are not Christians. I have cast pearls of wisdom but being attacked by people who HATE us. We are told NOT to cast our pearls before swine, so it's time to move on.

I suggest people read the Bible and pray to God for understanding. Without him, I'm nothing. I'm doing great because of Him, because of my love for Him, it has made me love ALL men and women. So, with this, I'm canceling my membership here.

There have been other black forums which were full of vicious, cussing, negative people. This forum is somewhat "toned down" but just the same,the same anger and hostility exists here. I feel sorry for those who wish to cause division. It's like we black people just have to be separated because some person who is NOT wise in the things of God said so. We follow too many "pied pipers".

Malcolm X himself came to a realization which cost him his life. His OWN black muslim brothers murdered him (not the white man). People speak of the pre-Mecca Malcolm, but when he saw that there were brothers of his faith with white skin, he realized that he could not hate them. Just like I cannot hate those of my faith with white skin.

Anger is destroying people, especially black people. It was ANGER that Malcolm's grandson had in his heart when he started the fire that killed Betty Shabazz. Yet, we don't want to own up to our anger but blame others.

Slavery ended many years ago, but black people today are spiritually in bondage. Too many of you are hollering about what the white man did centuries ago as if you yourselves had those same shackles on your feet. You accept defeat and won't allow yourselves to be victors. You blame others for your failures in life. You scream about how drugs were introduced into the neighborhood. Nobody FORCED you to take them.

Many of you want the easy way out and not work for things. Some of the stuff Bill Cosby alluded to was true. We put more value in Nike, Reebok, etc. than we do our children's education.

Well, when I became a Christian, I left the shackles of the past behind. I'm a free woman and I can have the "good of the land" because I have a Heavenly Father who is my provider.

There are many blacks like myself who work hard and are living a better life. It is guaranteed 100% by God when we obey Him. Yet, He knows that we will meet with opposition and must suffer sometimes. Those who were thrown into the lions' den or suffered other tortures; He remembers them.

Satan is a defeated foe. He is like a toothless lion with a loud roar. He knows that his days are short and he is trying to kill, steal and destroy as many as he can. Unfortunately, too many of us are playing right in his hands.

It seems to me that the gist of these discussions have nothing to do with uplifting. There are blacks who think we should wear our hair a certain way, we should only live in black communities, purchase ONLY from black people, and have no association whatsoever with non-blacks.

We need to open our eyes. We are NOT the only people on this planet. The supermarkets in our area are not black owned. The company I worked for is predominantly white. And I'm not going to live in a community with ALL black people either. My next door neighbor is white and he doesn't bother me. We leave out at the same time for work. We handle our business. There are other blacks in the neighborhood who get out and work.

There are different colors of the rainbow and different races of people. This is the way God made us. Satan is the one who caused the hatred and division. He was jealous of God and wanted glory for himself. And this is why we can't get along and hate our own people and others.

But through God I've gained wisdom. And still gaining. I'm on my way to work to try to stop a situation in which two black women are full of hatred for each other. This is our problem in a nutshell, we cannot love our brother and sister who we see, but many claim to love God who they cannot see.

I leave with no ill feelings towards anyone in here. I perceive that my words will be met with anger and hatred, but then again, they are only words. I wish my people would come to the accurate knowledge of the truth. Outside of God, there is no truth, brothers and sisters.

One day, it will be too late, so it's best to seek Him now while he can be found.


Awww she gonna pick her toys and go home now? That's myt Yt of you!

Hey You, you Said: THe Africans who practiced christianity were known as coptics and gnostics. In northeast africa, over 1500 years ago. Before even Islam came to the motherland.

Nobody said that black people were not in the bible, the old testament. But that was not christianity, that was Judaism. THe religion appropiated by your friend the white Roman or holy roman EMPIRE. Then watered it down in 325 a.d. at nicea, and given back to their conquered masses. Including, black people.

:nono: Wrong...again. When God gave the 10 Commandments, He gave it to Moses...a black man...it was not appropiated to any empire...in fact, the Roman Empire was not even around. Oh brotha...you have so much knowledge, yet I search for just plain common sense. If you want to pick and choose which blacks you want to follow in respect to spirituality, go ahead my brotha. I won't be mad at cha, but don't ascribe something white as being the originators of something that STARTED with black people just because you don't like it. :rolling:


You need to brush up on reading comprehension. Was moses not a hebrew? Did not the Roman Empire convert to Christianity after the 4th Century

Do you know the difference between Judaism and christianity. That there was no such thing as a christian when the alleged prophet moses was born. That in fact christianity as an institutionalized religion was started by the Romans.

Why do you keep trying to confuse the discourse by bringing up the wrong dates and places? Read carefully now. ONce again. I said there were black people in the bible, having nothing to do with christians. From the old testament. Or did I not make that my clear? My bad

That the Romans co-opted the religion of Christianity. Practiced by the Coptics and Gnostics of northeast africa. Subsequently converting the Roman empire from a pagan one to a christian one. In the 4th century ad.

By the early 16th century, your friends from Europe came to west africa kidnapped black people the rest were bought from other blacks. THen brought to the western hemisphere and force to denounce their native religion as slaves. NOW WHAT part of that don't you understand. THis is a matter of historical fact.

This has nothing to do with blacks in the bible I'm talking about white christians in the last......500 years forcing their beliefs on our ancestors. Got it?

Do you even know the history of the holy Roman empire?

Sorry, but YOU are the one who told me he was half fish. YOU described him that way. I only repeat what you have taught me. If this image of your god as being half fish is disturbing then perhaps you should rethink the way you view him. I would like to see him myself. I've always wanted to see a mermaid, because on TV, they are beautiful. Can you imagine what he must look like??? And just think...he made it all the way to Jupiter...something no man can do because he's not a god. At first, I thought he was a myth, but you say he's real so I must respect that. If you don't want me to mention your god as being half fish, I hope it's not because you are ashamed to let people know what you believe. I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is life to me. You can refer to Him as a lamb god if you'd like. I won't be mad at cha. After all, Christianity should be challenged...but remember Nommo will be challenged as well.


Are you trying to be cute with me? I also told you that the image of the nommo being half fish had more to do with shape shifting and manipulation of dimensions. But you conveniently left that out, that's intellectually dishonest at best. and misleading at worst. SO if you are going to mention him being half fish. mention all of his attributes. But I know you won't because you think your religion is superior to mine. This is the reason for your tongue and cheek sneaky comments.

The point is you are making an oversimplification of one of his attributes. This is why I asked you do you call your god the lamb god or the burning bush god. I doubt it. How can you challenge a being that all you've learned about is through a member on a message board, you're apparently too afraid to find out first hand from the dogon themselves right. You learned about their culture thru links and articles. How sincere!

You say you want to see my God,,you would never recognize it even if it was right in front of you. Your mind is conditioned to a completely different vibration. But where is yours. Let me see him. In fact let me see his son, the one who walks on water, or turns blood into <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about wine" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||wine|AA1VDw">wine</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||wine|AA1VDw">wine</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||wine|AA1VDw">wine</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||wine|AA1VDw">wine</A>. the one who fled into where?...Khemit as a child. Let us see him

If you are so steadfast in your belief in your god, why do you feel the need to challenge something you don't believe in? What do you gain from this? It is an ego thing? I told you about the Nommo, not because I wanted to debate him over your god. But you are the one who is confrontational. Like many Libras I know. Want to be right at any cost.

Are you trying to be cute with me? I also told you that the image of the nommo being half fish had more to do with shape shifting and manipulation of dimensions. But you conveniently left that out, that's intellectually dishonest at best. and misleading at worst. SO if you are going to mention him being half fish. mention all of his attributes. But I know you won't because you think your religion is superior to mine. This is the reason for your tongue and cheek sneaky comments.

The point is you are making an oversimplification of one of his attributes. This is why I asked you do you call your god the lamb god or the burning bush god. I doubt it. How can you challenge a being that all you've learned about is through a member on a message board, you're apparently too afraid to find out first hand from the dogon themselves right. You learned about their culture thru links and articles. How sincere!

You say you want to see my God,,you would never recognize it even if it was right in front of you. Your mind is conditioned to a completely different vibration. But where is yours. Let me see him. In fact let me see his son, the one who walks on water, or turns blood into <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about wine" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||wine|AA1VDw">wine</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||wine|AA1VDw">wine</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||wine|AA1VDw">wine</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||wine|AA1VDw">wine</A>. the one who fled into where?...Khemit as a child. Let us see him

If you are so steadfast in your belief in your god, why do you feel the need to challenge something you don't believe in? What do you gain from this? It is an ego thing? I told you about the Nommo, not because I wanted to debate him over your god. But you are the one who is confrontational. Like many Libras I know. Want to be right at any cost.

:huh: Oh you are so funny. I guess that's what I like about you. Okay let's stop this and shake hands. How bout it??? So I see that you checked out my profile. I guess it wouldn't do me any good to tell you I am not a Libra and that I don't subscribe to the religion of astrology. Oh well, we won't go there.

I am curious though. At one point you said:

I also told you that the image of the nommo being half fish had more to do with shape shifting and manipulation of dimensions. But you conveniently left that out, that's intellectually dishonest at best. and misleading at worst

Well if it was misleading, that's because you misleading me darling. You also told me that he was a symbol...then you referred to him as a being. What's a woman suppose to think? Looky what you said even here...

How can you challenge a being that all you've learned about is through a member on a message board, you're apparently too afraid to find out first hand from the dogon themselves right.

Now is he a being or not? Help a sistah understand.

Question: Is this the same Dogon god who felled on his face before the Ark Of The Covenant or is there two of them?

:huh: Oh you are so funny. I guess that's what I like about you. Okay let's stop this and shake hands. How bout it??? So I see that you checked out my profile. I guess it wouldn't do me any good to tell you I am not a Libra and that I don't subscribe to the religion of astrology. Oh well, we won't go there.

I am curious though. At one point you said:

I also told you that the image of the nommo being half fish had more to do with shape shifting and manipulation of dimensions. But you conveniently left that out, that's intellectually dishonest at best. and misleading at worst

Well if it was misleading, that's because you misleading me darling. You also told me that he was a symbol...then you referred to him as a being. What's a woman suppose to think? Looky what you said even here...

How can you challenge a being that all you've learned about is through a member on a message board, you're apparently too afraid to find out first hand from the dogon themselves right.

Now is he a being or not? Help a sistah understand.

Question: Is this the same Dogon god who felled on his face before the Ark Of The Covenant or is there two of them?

In post #143 of does melanin give black people superior physical, mental and spiritual abilities, it was pointed out to you by another member that "you need to get off the amphibious kick and stop taking things so literally. That the description of the Nommo could have very symbolic representations we may fail to get by literalism"

Then in the same thread it was pointed out to you that the nommo represent the 4 pairs of primordial ancestors of the Dogon, but in post #168 you say the Nommo is not an ancestor of African people. Who told you that?

With all the bits of information explained to you about the nommo, you turn around and ask me if this is the same Dogon who fell on his face in front of the ark of the covenant? Do you see anywhere in this thread where the ark of the covenant is mentioned along side the people called the Dogon?

Yes the nommo are real. singular and plural. They are not subject to the known laws of physics, this is what is meant by masters of the waters. Got it?

In post #143 of does melanin give black people superior physical, mental and spiritual abilities, it was pointed out to you by another member that "you need to get off the amphibious kick and stop taking things so literally. That the description of the Nommo could have very symbolic representations we may fail to get by literalism"

Then in the same thread it was pointed out to you that the nommo represent the 4 pairs of primordial ancestors of the Dogon, but in post #168 you say the Nommo is not an ancestor of African people. Who told you that?

With all the bits of information explained to you about the nommo, you turn around and ask me if this is the same Dogon who fell on his face in front of the ark of the covenant? Do you see anywhere in this thread where the ark of the covenant is mentioned along side the people called the Dogon?

Yes the nommo are real. singular and plural. They are not subject to the known laws of physics, this is what is meant by masters of the waters. Got it?

Greetings,

The reality of the Nommos, just like most Afrikan beings, is very complex. It can not and should not be explained from the same logic taken with Christianity or any of the Big Three World religions. Afrikans were and are a very symbolic people - they never spoke or believed in things arbitrarily. The belief systems of our ancestors were a science - shown and proven by millenia of spiritual research.

Blackbird

In post #143 of does melanin give black people superior physical, mental and spiritual abilities, it was pointed out to you by another member that "you need to get off the amphibious kick and stop taking things so literally. That the description of the Nommo could have very symbolic representations we may fail to get by literalism"

Then in the same thread it was pointed out to you that the nommo represent the 4 pairs of primordial ancestors of the Dogon, but in post #168 you say the Nommo is not an ancestor of African people. Who told you that?

With all the bits of information explained to you about the nommo, you turn around and ask me if this is the same Dogon who fell on his face in front of the ark of the covenant? Do you see anywhere in this thread where the ark of the covenant is mentioned along side the people called the Dogon?

Yes the nommo are real. singular and plural. They are not subject to the known laws of physics, this is what is meant by masters of the waters. Got it?



You said: Then in the same thread it was pointed out to you that the nommo represent the 4 pairs of primordial ancestors of the Dogon, but in post #168 you say the Nommo is not an ancestor of African people. Who told you that?

Well you said it was just a symbol. So how can it be an ancestor?

You said:Yes the nommo are real. singular and plural. They are not subject to the known laws of physics, this is what is meant by masters of the waters. Got it?

Okay...let me see it I got it right. The Nommo is real, yet symbolic. He is single and yet their are many. Is there just one on Jupiter that they are trying to blow up or is it a lot of them of Jupiter?

You said: With all the bits of information explained to you about the nommo, you turn around and ask me if this is the same Dogon who fell on his face in front of the ark of the covenant? Do you see anywhere in this thread where the ark of the covenant is mentioned along side the people called the Dogon?

No I didn't see where this was mentioned. That's why I brought it up. You do know that he kept falling down on his face. I wonder why he kept bowing like that. His followers would stand him up only to have he fall down again. They had clearly made a mistake in stealing AND setting the Ark of The Covenant before their god. No offense but...I thought that was so funny. :rolling:

You said: Then in the same thread it was pointed out to you that the nommo represent the 4 pairs of primordial ancestors of the Dogon, but in post #168 you say the Nommo is not an ancestor of African people. Who told you that?

Well you said it was just a symbol. So how can it be an ancestor?

You said:Yes the nommo are real. singular and plural. They are not subject to the known laws of physics, this is what is meant by masters of the waters. Got it?

Okay...let me see it I got it right. The Nommo is real, yet symbolic. He is single and yet their are many. Is there just one on Jupiter that they are trying to blow up or is it a lot of them of Jupiter?

You said: With all the bits of information explained to you about the nommo, you turn around and ask me if this is the same Dogon who fell on his face in front of the ark of the covenant? Do you see anywhere in this thread where the ark of the covenant is mentioned along side the people called the Dogon?

No I didn't see where this was mentioned. That's why I brought it up. You do know that he kept falling down on his face. I wonder why he kept bowing like that. His followers would stand him up only to have he fall down again. They had clearly made a mistake in stealing AND setting the Ark of The Covenant before their god. No offense but...I thought that was so funny. :rolling:


This is the last time I will address any reply you make. The symbolism is in reference to attributes. Real beings with attributes. one of them being called masters of the waters. I said the half fish half human archetype was a symbol. The Dogon draw the nommo this way as a glyph . But if you had done your own research you would have never asked the question. You would have known.

No I do not know about your dogon falling down. I don't follow christianity. So how could a "he" dogon, represent the Dogon people of Mali africa. This must be a thinly veiled rhetorical question.

I refuse to answer any questions about the nommo or the Dogon. Do yourself a favor, go find out on your own. Just like I did!

This is the last time I will address any reply you make. The symbolism is in reference to attributes. Real beings with attributes. one of them being called masters of the waters. I said the half fish half human archetype was a symbol. The Dogon draw the nommo this way as a glyph . But if you had done your own research you would have never asked the question. You would have known.

No I do not know about your dogon falling down. I don't follow christianity. So how could a "he" dogon, represent the Dogon people of Mali africa. This must be a thinly veiled rhetorical question.

I refuse to answer any questions about the nommo or the Dogon. Do yourself a favor, go find out on your own. Just like I did!

Joyce,

As Brother Sekhemu suggested, maybe you read "The Pale Fox" - if not for anything but its ethnographical nature. I believes it behooves any Afrikan-American to learn what they can about Afrikan people and their culture. To pass generalization would be to dismiss Afrikan people the same way European missionaries and imperialists did when they first came to Afrika.

Blackbird

LOL @ the way this thread is churning. Some people have building blocks and some just have mental blocks.

"Om"

When your religion does not explain who you are, how your people have existed and how you exist today, you become less human. Servants of Jesus whose people do not rule the earth face this dilemma. They basically live without a history. They are helf souls.

Joyce,

As Brother Sekhemu suggested, maybe you read "The Pale Fox" - if not for anything but its ethnographical nature. I believes it behooves any Afrikan-American to learn what they can about Afrikan people and their culture. To pass generalization would be to dismiss Afrikan people the same way European missionaries and imperialists did when they first came to Afrika.

Blackbird

Point well taken my brotha. As a matter of fact, because of something you said to me, two weeks ago, I have already begun to head in that direction.

Thank you.

This is the last time I will address any reply you make. The symbolism is in reference to attributes. Real beings with attributes. one of them being called masters of the waters. I said the half fish half human archetype was a symbol. The Dogon draw the nommo this way as a glyph . But if you had done your own research you would have never asked the question. You would have known.

No I do not know about your dogon falling down. I don't follow christianity. So how could a "he" dogon, represent the Dogon people of Mali africa. This must be a thinly veiled rhetorical question.

I refuse to answer any questions about the nommo or the Dogon. Do yourself a favor, go find out on your own. Just like I did!

No...I've found out enough. Thanks anyway.

I Know Of The Nommo or the Dogon , I'm Writeing Something For You Let Me Know If Its What Your Talking About Ok .. Some People Are Inly Lock In One Type Of Knowledge

I Know Of The Nommo or the Dogon , I'm Writeing Something For You Let Me Know If Its What Your Talking About Ok .. Some People Are Inly Lock In One Type Of Knowledge


Ok brotha! :shades:

Hello Everyone,

It has been suggested that Christianity is under attack, an avid attack, in this forum. My question is sincere, as I have not seen this and would like the opinions of those who frequent here to share what your perception is, regarding this topic.

My whole mind-set, in creating this forum, was to provide a place where everyone is welcome, where none are set up and/or apart, a place of inclusion if you will. In the description for this forum, no mention of any faith/religion is made and those who don't believe at all are encouraged to participate. Well aware that there are many different religions and faiths, it was my hope that this forum, "Spirituality and Religion," would allow us to remove some of the barriers. Barriers, in my opinion, that has kept us from sharing, together, the things we believe individually.

I do recognize there are an overwhelming number of posts regarding Islam, but I thought that was simply because Members chose to share that information. I don't think posting one's belief/questions, in and of itself, implies an attack on other faiths and religions. Am I wrong?

Am I being naive? Is Christianity being attacked here (or anyone's faith, religion, sexual preference, color, etc.) and I don't even see it? Would you prefer having separate forums for all different faiths, religions and denominations?

Looking forward to your responses.

Destee


Well, as long as the Christians are "seen and not heard," everything is fine.

But, as soon as one is vocal, standing up for his/her faith, all of a sudden, it's "MADNESS" and "BICKERING."

As soon as a Christian challenges another on a derogatory or unfounded statement aimed at Christianity or the Bible, all of a sudden, it's "Can't we all just get along" cuz "We are the World" and "We've got more important things to address" and "KUMBAYA" and stuff & stuff....

With countless threads on this site about other belief systems, no one says a word about any so-called "dissension" until it involves Christianity or the Bible.

Right now, there are only 2 OBVIOUS Christians on the site, me and Brother Clyde. For various reasons, most to all of the others have left, but I can't help wondering if this very topic is not connected to any of their absences.

When another member overtly or covertly disrespects our faith, we Christians aren't supposed to say anything in return. We Christians are supposed to just "turn the other cheek" and "love our neighbors" and apply the "Golden Rule" and stuff & stuff....

We Christians are just supposed to take any and all slights and slaps and digs and cuts meted out by others and not say a word.

And when we DO say something in return to our debasers, then WE'RE the ones deemed and labeled the "trouble-makers."

But, anybody else can speak whatever opposition they want to about Christianity or the Bible and we Christians are just supposed to SHUT UP and TAKE IT.

So, to answer the question, YES.

To some, we Christians on the site are like unwanted step-children....We're just BARELY tolerated; but, By Golly, WE BETTA BE QUIET!

Some feel they can enter the Christianity section of the Study Forum and just rant and rave and spew their rhetoric at will.
And after being moderated/corrected by the Administration about their behavior, the violator and their CREW become even more resentful of the Christians, feeling like the Administration is "protecting us" and being unfair.

When I first entered the Christianity sub-forum, my first post was "ANY CHRISTIANS IN THE HOUSE?"

Well, I have since gotten the answer to that question. Many of them were present in this very thread, but all of them are gone now.

Perhaps any future "Destee HOMECOMING" would also include:

vj57, Joyce, Akilah, Radical Faith, greaterdestiny, Dustyelbow, etc... I'm sure there's some more I don't know.

Well, as long as the Christians are "seen and not heard," everything is fine.

But, as soon as one is vocal, standing up for his/her faith, all of a sudden, it's "MADNESS" and "BICKERING."

As soon as a Christian challenges another on a derogatory or unfounded statement aimed at Christianity or the Bible, all of a sudden, it's "Can't we all just get along" cuz "We are the World" and "We've got more important things to address" and "KUMBAYA" and stuff & stuff....

With countless threads on this site about other belief systems, no one says a word about any so-called "dissension" until it involves Christianity or the Bible.

Right now, there are only 2 OBVIOUS Christians on the site, me and Brother Clyde. For various reasons, most to all of the others have left, but I can't help wondering if this very topic is not connected to any of their absences.

When another member overtly or covertly disrespects our faith, we Christians aren't supposed to say anything in return. We Christians are supposed to just "turn the other cheek" and "love our neighbors" and apply the "Golden Rule" and stuff & stuff....

We Christians are just supposed to take any and all slights and slaps and digs and cuts meted out by others and not say a word.

And when we DO say something in return to our debasers, then WE'RE the ones deemed and labeled the "trouble-makers."

But, anybody else can speak whatever opposition they want to about Christianity or the Bible and we Christians are just supposed to SHUT UP and TAKE IT.

So, to answer the question, YES.

To some, we Christians on the site are like unwanted step-children....We're just BARELY tolerated; but, By Golly, WE BETTA BE QUIET!

Some feel they can enter the Christianity section of the Study Forum and just rant and rave and spew their rhetoric at will.
And after being moderated/corrected by the Administration about their behavior, the violator and their CREW become even more resentful of the Christians, feeling like the Administration is "protecting us" and being unfair.

When I first entered the Christianity sub-forum, my first post was "ANY CHRISTIANS IN THE HOUSE?"

Well, I have since gotten the answer to that question. Many of them were present in this very thread, but all of them are gone now.

Perhaps any future "Destee HOMECOMING" would also include:

vj57, Joyce, Akilah, Radical Faith, greaterdestiny, Dustyelbow, etc... I'm sure there's some more I don't know.




Now you are complaining? Or shall i say whining? You know, I have watched your postings and the people that you have tried and in some cases succeeded in getting rid of or trying to make look bad. That is a very un christianlike thing to do. But then again....

I do not perceive Christianity to be under attack on this forum, although it should be. In fact, any system of belief, any philosophy, any book and any false history or cultural concepts that do not lead us to our return to freedom and empowerment on all levels needs to be attacked and scrutinized to the highest level.

If we as a people have been conquered, enslaved, conditioned or brainwashed into behaviors and thought processes that we did not create and that are not beneficial to who and how we are as a people...then in the words of Dr. John Henrick Clarke;"It needs to go in the trash can of history".

We have become experts at promoting, living and expounding on the concepts and books of others who have never meant us any good....but when it comes to our own historical and cultural realities we become dumbfounded and confused. When it comes to our own books and prophets we become numb with ignorance as if we either had none prior to others giving us theirs or that what we had didn't have any value.

Just because our people can be found in the pages of the KJV Bible means nothing. We can be found in the pages of every book out there but that does not make it ours or our story. The only thing consistent is that "without our story, none of the other books would even exist at all." The problem is that everyone has picked up a piece of the broken mirror as it pertains to who we are and they are looking at it and living it out as if it is the whole mirror, when it isn't....and that is what is being attacked.

People are moving through this forum with pieces of cultural, historical and spiritual fruit in their hands for us to eat...spouting about the nutritional benefits of the fruit but when asked to "show us the tree from which the fruit came or grew from", there starts the problem. Personally I may like the fruit and I may want more of it. As such, I want to see the tree that this fruit came from for myself so that I can determine for myself if it is indeed a good tree and from where it grew. It is this desire that becomes perceived as an attack. Why so? Well, just because the fruit looks good and may taste sweet to my mouth does not mean it is good or that eating it will provide all that my body, my mind or my spirit may need...so I have the right to inquire, inspect and demand to see the tree from which this fruit came from.

If upon inspection of the tree I begin to see issues and problems with "how the tree grew, what type of fruit the tree has been producing and what the over all effects of eating the fruit from this tree has been", then I have a responsibility to expose this tree and it's fruit for what it has revealed itself to really be for those of us who have been eating it's fruit because the fruit looks good or taste sweet.

Given a choice, a child would eat candy all of their life because it looks good and taste so good to the mouth....it was made this way and for that purpose. What am I supposed to do, jump up and shout; "yeah, but black people made this candy!?" No, that isn't exactly true. Black people may have only made the ingredients in the candy...not the candy itself!!! This is the case with the world's religions...Christianity, Islam, Judaism and many more. We therefore have a duty, responsibility and need to either go back and see the tree from which something came or to see the factory that the candy was made in.

So what is all the complaining about? The complaining is about what we have discovered about the tree. The complaining is about what we have uncovered in the factory....and in a nut shell we are being told not to tell what we discovered or saw for ourselves as it relates to the tree or the factory from which we have been eating as if it is okay for us to do when it is not.

DECEPTION.....IN MY OPINION HAS BEEN A MAINSTAY WITHIN OUR BLINDED & CORRUPTED CULTURE HERE IN AMERIKKKA SINCE THE VERY BEGINNING....THERE'S NO ESCAPING IT NO MATTER WHERE WE SEEK THE TRUTH.....

WE CAN'T SEE THE NEXT MOVE COMING....IN ORDER TO PREVENT FURTHER DAMAGE TO OUR PEOPLE.....AND " AFTER THE FACT " BECOMES A LONELY SOLDIER IN OUR WAR HERE , SLOWLY RECRUITING MORE OF US AFTER SOME OF US FINALLY " GET IT " .....THEN WE ARE PULLED INTO A WAR OF PERSPECTIVES......WHICH ONES ARE BETTER , OR WHICH ONES ARE EASIER TO ATTAIN....

NO MATTER WHICH PATH WE CHOOSE , DECEPTION AWAITS US EAGERLY , IN SEVERAL FORMS AS WELL....BECAUSE IN THE MEANTIME , REGARDLESS HOW RIGHT OR HOW GROUNDED OR HOW CONCRETE THE TRUTH WE FIND IS......THE CHANGES & SACRIFICES WE MAKE IN OUR OWN LIVES IN ORDER TO AT LEAST GAIN LEVERAGE ON DECEPTION , ONLY GUARANTEES MORE SUFFERING....

RELIGION ITSELF CREATES MANY WARS ON MANY LEVELS IN OUR LIVES.....AND PASSION BECOMES THE FUEL THAT'S USED IN FIGHTING THESE WARS....AND AS LONG AS PRINCIPLES ARE CONSIDERED AS A LUXURY , THEN THESE WARS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN ANOTHER FOUNDATION FOR.......DECEPTION...

IN THE VERY VERY SHORT TIME I HAVE BEEN HERE , I HAVE NOTICED THAT CALLING ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE , ANOTHER PIECE OF TRUTH , ANOTHER RELIGION , OR ANOTHER BELIEF SYSTEM.....WRONG.....IS QUITE NORMAL...

THE ATTACKS ON CHRISTIANITY ARE ACCEPTED HERE....WHETHER THEY ARE DIRECT OR INDIRECT , HAVE A LOT MORE IMPORTANCE THAN ECONOMICS.....WHICH HAS NO CHRISTIAN FOUNDATION IN MY OPINION.....

BUT....I GOTTA KEEP MOVING.....I DON'T HAVE TIME TO ENTERTAIN A RELIGIOUS DIFFERENCES ARENA CLOUDED WITH DECEPTION....NOR WILL I CONSIDER THE DIFFERENCES IN PERSPECTIVES WITHIN A RELIGION....THE WAY I SEE IT , REGARDLESS WHAT PERSPECTIVE I CHOOSE , THE RECOVERY TIME WILL OUT-WEIGH REAL PROGRESS....

THOUGH CORE VALUES ARE INDEED IMPORTANT.....AND PLANNING IS EVEN MORE IMPORTANT.......BUT IMPLEMENTING THEM BASED ON RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ??......I DON'T THINK SO......

WHAT I CAN AND WILL DO.......IS BE THANKFUL TO MY ANCESTORS WHO SUFFERED & DIED & DOCUMENTED AS MUCH OF THEIR EXPERIENCE AS POSSIBLE......FOR MY BENEFIT TO KEEP ON MOVING....

I CAN & WILL RESPECT THOSE WHO HAVE AND REPRESENT VARIOUS BELIEFS......WHY ?......BECAUSE NO MATTER WHAT , IF YOU ARE BLACK IN AMERIKKA , THEN WE HAVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF PROBLEMS IN COMMON........I WILL HOPE THAT PERSON HAS MY BACK IN OUR COMMON WAR AS I WILL HAVE THEIRS.....


WARRIOR

People are moving through this forum with pieces of cultural, historical and spiritual fruit in their hands for us to eat...spouting about the nutritional benefits of the fruit but when asked to "show us the tree from which the fruit came or grew from", there starts the problem. Personally I may like the fruit and I may want more of it. As such, I want to see the tree that this fruit came from for myself so that I can determine for myself if it is indeed a good tree and from where it grew. It is this desire that becomes perceived as an attack. Why so? Well, just because the fruit looks good and may taste sweet to my mouth does not mean it is good or that eating it will provide all that my body, my mind or my spirit may need...so I have the right to inquire, inspect and demand to see the tree from which this fruit came from.


I totally agree with this, and stand behind it, for we must begin to see what's bringing us to our death.

...

So what is all the complaining about? The complaining is about what we have discovered about the tree. The complaining is about what we have uncovered in the factory....and in a nut shell we are being told not to tell what we discovered or saw for ourselves as it relates to the tree or the factory from which we have been eating as if it is okay for us to do when it is not.


No one is telling another NOT to present what they know or believe. The problem surfaces when another denounces/demeans what someone else knows/believes.

Well, as long as the Christians are "seen and not heard," everything is fine.

But, as soon as one is vocal, standing up for his/her faith, all of a sudden, it's "MADNESS" and "BICKERING."

As soon as a Christian challenges another on a derogatory or unfounded statement aimed at Christianity or the Bible, all of a sudden, it's "Can't we all just get along" cuz "We are the World" and "We've got more important things to address" and "KUMBAYA" and stuff & stuff....

With countless threads on this site about other belief systems, no one says a word about any so-called "dissension" until it involves Christianity or the Bible.

Right now, there are only 2 OBVIOUS Christians on the site, me and Brother Clyde. For various reasons, most to all of the others have left, but I can't help wondering if this very topic is not connected to any of their absences.

When another member overtly or covertly disrespects our faith, we Christians aren't supposed to say anything in return. We Christians are supposed to just "turn the other cheek" and "love our neighbors" and apply the "Golden Rule" and stuff & stuff....

We Christians are just supposed to take any and all slights and slaps and digs and cuts meted out by others and not say a word.

And when we DO say something in return to our debasers, then WE'RE the ones deemed and labeled the "trouble-makers."

But, anybody else can speak whatever opposition they want to about Christianity or the Bible and we Christians are just supposed to SHUT UP and TAKE IT.

So, to answer the question, YES.

To some, we Christians on the site are like unwanted step-children....We're just BARELY tolerated; but, By Golly, WE BETTA BE QUIET!

Some feel they can enter the Christianity section of the Study Forum and just rant and rave and spew their rhetoric at will.
And after being moderated/corrected by the Administration about their behavior, the violator and their CREW become even more resentful of the Christians, feeling like the Administration is "protecting us" and being unfair.

When I first entered the Christianity sub-forum, my first post was "ANY CHRISTIANS IN THE HOUSE?"

Well, I have since gotten the answer to that question. Many of them were present in this very thread, but all of them are gone now.

Perhaps any future "Destee HOMECOMING" would also include:

vj57, Joyce, Akilah, Radical Faith, greaterdestiny, Dustyelbow, etc... I'm sure there's some more I don't know.

Sister CherryBlossom ... i will respond, i'm just busy right now with dotDefender and stuff.

Love You!

:heart:

Destee

This forum does appear to be dominated by Islamic and Egyptian beliefs.....

There's just something about the name Jesus, that brings a rise out of some people like you would not believe. ...

But then as you said, as long as everyone treat each other with respect, everyone should be able to get along. ....




Amen, Sister Joyce!

I think I heard you SiS Destee asking about an attack on the RE-LIE-I- ON (religion) of christianity (christ-insanity) and NOT about the person who declares themselves christian.

Is there a DIFFERENCE between 'attacking' the religion vs. attacking the person:?:

I think so UNLESS this is a case where "you ARE what you eat" or take in. :10500:

M.E.
:hearts2:

... Is Christianity Being Attacked In This Forum?... Not with deadly blows
Hello Everyone,

It has been suggested that Christianity is under attack, an avid attack, in this forum. My question is sincere, as I have not seen this and would like the opinions of those who frequent here to share what your perception is, regarding this topic.

My whole mind-set, in creating this forum, was to provide a place where everyone is welcome, where none are set up and/or apart, a place of inclusion if you will. In the description for this forum, no mention of any faith/religion is made and those who don't believe at all are encouraged to participate. Well aware that there are many different religions and faiths, it was my hope that this forum, "Spirituality and Religion," would allow us to remove some of the barriers. Barriers, in my opinion, that has kept us from sharing, together, the things we believe individually.

I do recognize there are an overwhelming number of posts regarding Islam, but I thought that was simply because Members chose to share that information. I don't think posting one's belief/questions, in and of itself, implies an attack on other faiths and religions. Am I wrong?

Am I being naive? Is Christianity being attacked here (or anyone's faith, religion, sexual preference, color, etc.) and I don't even see it? Would you prefer having separate forums for all different faiths, religions and denominations?

Looking forward to your responses.

Destee


Sister Destee,

First, I applaud you for posting this thread; it is a very good read throughout. In my view, Joyce has said it best in her initial arguments below, and obviously, I co-sign the sentiments of cherryblossom and WARRIOR:

This forum does appear to be dominated by Islamic and Egyptian beliefs. However, that's because a Christian might feel intimidated about posting in this atomosphere for fear of being drawn into senseless debates. There's just something about the name Jesus, that brings a rise out of some people like you would not believe. If you shake a hornet's nest you are bound to be stung even if you shook it unintentionally.

But then as you said, as long as everyone treat each other with respect, everyone should be able to get along. I've been in a heated/friendly discussion with Sekhemu but we respected each other...thus I do believe if I lived in his city, he would take me out for a cup of coffee. We've agreed to disagree and still remain on speaking terms...at least for now anyway...you know how fickle men can be sometimes.

You made some very strong points on how many blacks feel about christianity. This to me, is especially sad because Jesus was not a white man but a man of color. How could He have lived among Egyptians for 3 years, in hiding if He had been a white man? He and His parents (Mary & Joseph) would have easily been discovered and returned to Herod for torment and death. Here in America the Egyptians are portrayed as white people along with their white Jesus. A study of Egyptian history proves otherwise, yet programs like National Geographic will continue to portray these great people as caucasians . Whites are a people that MUST have everything look like them or close to them in order to accept it. I wonder how many whites would still love Jesus Christ if they found out He was black.

Unfortunately, many blacks will never know that the Egyptian people were NEVER white people but black people. They will never know that most of the people in the bible are black people. Many don't even realize that Israel is part of the continent of Africa. The white man wants the world to believe, he "fathered" civilization in the land of Africa...how unfortunate that so many blacks are turning away from something (the bible) that they have such rich history in...very unfortunate. But for those who have look past the barriers of race to embrace the truth which in and of itself bears no color, salvation through Jesus (no matter what His color) is not nor ever will be in vain or in chains.

Joyce

... I HAVE NOTICED THAT CALLING ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE , ANOTHER PIECE OF TRUTH , ANOTHER RELIGION , OR ANOTHER BELIEF SYSTEM.....WRONG.....IS QUITE NORMAL...

THE ATTACKS ON CHRISTIANITY ARE ACCEPTED HERE....

WHAT I CAN AND WILL DO.......IS BE THANKFUL TO MY ANCESTORS WHO SUFFERED & DIED & DOCUMENTED AS MUCH OF THEIR EXPERIENCE AS POSSIBLE......FOR MY BENEFIT TO KEEP ON MOVING....

I CAN & WILL RESPECT THOSE WHO HAVE AND REPRESENT VARIOUS BELIEFS......WHY ?......BECAUSE NO MATTER WHAT , IF YOU ARE BLACK IN AMERIKKA , THEN WE HAVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF PROBLEMS IN COMMON........I WILL HOPE THAT PERSON HAS MY BACK IN OUR COMMON WAR AS I WILL HAVE THEIRS.....


WARRIOR

:toast:


:bowdown:

Moreover, there has been a thorough indoctrination of blacks on the parts of whites to embrace a religion based on their(white) interpretatio. Hence in most black churches we find a white Jesus. So that when many of the people on this board he're Jesus, it conjures....no pun intended, an image of a white man. To me this image represents an archetype of racial superiority. An image burned into the minds of black people since slavery.

Don't forget the part about jews being the "chosen people" As far as christianity being under "attack" whenever you question christianity it's considered attacking it by many people.

Don't forget the part about jews being the "chosen people" As far as christianity being under "attack" whenever you question christianity it's considered attacking it by many people.


Moreover, there has been a thorough indoctrination of blacks on the parts of whites to embrace a religion based on their(white) interpretatio. Hence in most black churches we find a white Jesus. So that when many of the people on this board he're Jesus, it conjures....no pun intended, an image of a white man. To me this image represents an archetype of racial superiority. An image burned into the minds of black people since slavery.


bigtown,

Back in the day, what you and the quote of Sekhemu (you replied to) say, was correct. However, it is a new day now and there is plenty of information out there that reverses that once common point of view. Below and in my signature you will find, that even I have a book title: Does Color Matter, as well as this YouTube presentation in support of the new day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaWpdgCowxk

peace

It seems to me that an "attack" is judged by the re-action of the poster in question, so it is not universal.....especially when the supreme judge's religion is also in question!

as far as Christianiy is concerned, there is no such thing as a "new day", nor being "born again" (which are basically the same term) in the way it is presented religiously. These "title's" are givin' every so often to fool some who question their belief's to keep "believing"
!

so while some continue to post the thoughts and links of white people, most of us prefer to use the minds that we have taken back!

agree to disagree and keep it movin....
it's not a hard concept to understand....
i think what it really is...is the level of
conviction/conditioning involved.....

one love
khasm

...as it seems the "unenlightened" feel attacked when the facts are presented to them backed by scholarship and research..."

I personally think this cognitive facade is a form of denial and I do not mean The Nile.

Ase':qqb015:


I didn't know it was that serious. I haven't seen anything that so incriminating.. only educating. So if someone complains about posting of other religions.. giving them a broader view on things.. and they choose to keep a closed mind.. Well thats not our problem... I'm ready to learn!!!!

I like the way you handle things though!! Momma Destee!!! Keep up the great work!!!

Shaneak

"So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye.
There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy,
There's only you and me,.. and we just disagree.
Ooh-ooh-ooh, oh-oh-oh".....

Dave Mason

...and there are many top notch scholars who I will continue to quote who back up the truth about Christianity w/o a word of apology.

The key word here is denial....!

Ase':qqb015:

I just wonder, through the belief in Christ, all the good that come from his teachings, those who strive to walk as Christ did, and who work to transform for the better,...

what he taught on the mount, is all this to be considered wrong?

"So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye.
There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy,
There's only you and me,.. and we just disagree.
Ooh-ooh-ooh, oh-oh-oh".....

Dave Mason





Thanks for your sense of fair play at conflict resolution, Josef.

I just wonder, through the belief in Christ, all the good that come from his teachings, those who strive to walk as Christ did, and who work to transform for the better,...

what he taught on the mount, is all this to be considered wrong?

peace

- did he teach on the "mount" or was his first teaching on the "plain"? I ask only because the Gospels disagree.!

lets keep it that way since I do not know you from a hill of beans.:smash:

I will however continue to lay down the science backed by academic scholarshup and references....!:em0200:

If you take that generic information personally that is on you:fyi:

Ase':qqb015:

that igorance is bliss, Clyde Coger.
1
That's okay because I do not know this character from a hill of beans -- anyways!


Ase':qqb015:

I have a troll following me around the board...:geek:

Reading is fundamental; however, reading the "incredible" bible decreases one ablity to think fundamentally verse by verse; scripture by scripture, chapter by chapter and page by page, blah, blah, blah....

Ase':qqb015:

In my Christian hey-day I attempted to take all four god-spells and compare their relationship beginning with chapter one.

At the end of the task -- which by the way only lasted an hour -- I was so perplexed with the none uniformity, that I gave up.

Now I know why....

***"...THE SIBYL [prophecies] was ancienter than all the Heathen Learning; that told real events; amid whose words you have put into the mouths of your Christian prophets..."-- Roman Theologian, Tertullian (c. 160-c.230)...***

Ase':qqb015:

PS Josef probably doesn't know that it was the debate between Tertullian and Paul Marcion that generated the creation of the "incredible" bible in the first place...

Reading is fundamental -- However, reading the bible decreases ones ability to use common sense fundamentally.

Peace In my sister friend, I truly understood your deep sentiments Fine1952, I really do. Besides, I am enjoying our friendship too much, and have put my guns away, remember, we made a truce recently and I am a Man of my word, for real! :)

..... Josef just proved... his manner seemes conciliatory to me

that igorance is bliss, Clyde Coger.
1
That's okay because I do not know this character from a hill of beans -- anyways!


Ase':qqb015:




Be nice Goddess, be nice.

troll?

I will assume that meant me, from my short stay here..

I'm just saying...

Elijah Muhammad showed young Brother Malcolm a glass of water and a glass of water diluted with ink... para phrasing Elijah--”If you give this clean water to the people they will drink it…..if you give this dirty water to the people they will drink it. It’s your responsibility to make sure they have clean water.”

now some look at it as this to be truth, other say to throw out the water dilluted with ink, because you cant use it for drinking, nor can you use it as ink.

I see truth in both..

the key is to have many options, and seek truth in all that surrounds you..

You have proven that you will not take the Bible as truth, fair enough...I have issues with it too, but you and I differ because, I do not see any need to throw out, all that is in it...

I mentioned the Sermon on the mount, and one poster wanted to argue, whether it was on a plain, or an actual mount..

I heard an expression that went something like

'if you focus too much on the frame, you will miss the whole picture'

true that....

lets keep it that way since I do not know you from a hill of beans.:smash:

I will however continue to lay down the science backed by academic scholarshup and references....!:em0200:

If you take that generic information personally that is on you:fyi:

Ase':qqb015:

cool, Its your world, I am just passing through...

peace to you...

troll?

I will assume that meant me, from my short stay here..

I'm just saying...

Elijah Muhammad showed young Brother Malcolm a glass of water and a glass of water diluted with ink... para phrasing Elijah--”If you give this clean water to the people they will drink it…..if you give this dirty water to the people they will drink it. It’s your responsibility to make sure they have clean water.”

now some look at it as this to be truth, other say to throw out the water dilluted with ink, because you cant use it for drinking, nor can you use it as ink.

I see truth in both..

the key is to have many options, and seek truth in all that surrounds you..

You have proven that you will not take the Bible as truth, fair enough...I have issues with it too, but you and I differ because, I do not see any need to throw out, all that is in it...

I mentioned the Sermon on the mount, and one poster wanted to argue, whether it was on a plain, or an actual mount..

I heard an expression that went something like

'if you focus too much on the frame, you will miss the whole picture'

true that....

peace

i was not trying to argue, just trying to get clarification since there is a contradiction on where his first sermon was...that all!

It's interesting that instead that you say i wanted to argue and i don't even believe you and i have ever spoken before. For that matter, i don't even post all that much anymore.........interesting, just the same!

peace to you on your journey Josef

..and I did not stutter.

I was responding and agreeing with shaneak when Josef popped up and did just what the Christians accuse non-believers of doing -- "attacking their faith system". And then you step in to vicariously soften Josef's subtle attack on me.

Unbelievable!

Ase':qqb015:

I was responding and agreeing with shaneak when Josef popped up and did just what the Christians accuse non-believers of doing -- "attacking their faith system". And then you step in to vicariously soften Josef's subtle attack on me.

Unbelievable!

Ase':qqb015:

Is it really unbelievable!, I mean come on, now..

really?

why is it that we get so over the top ,when we feel we are being challenged?

we use words like " I find it interesting"...I find it hilarious...I find it odd, and of course......unbelievable.

we are on an open forum, where ideas, thoughts ,suggestions, faith backgrounds, are challenged, and debated against..so we should not at all be surprised in the least bit, by what comes down the pike...

sorry you felt I attacked you, I simply posted some lyrics, that basically suggested we, agree to disagree.

there, no harm no foul.

(and by no means was I speaking to you directly, it just fell in the order behinds you, when I posted)

but again by you suggesting my behavior trollish, I dont remember chasing you around anywhere, thats just not how I navigate through forums. a waste of my, and your time, I assure you. and I ask that you show me, and destee members where I have done such a thing.

otherwise, in all due respect..
keep my name out cha mouth....when thinking of falsely accusing me...


I believe you have me confused with someone else,
quite possibly, that hill of beans that you dont know me from..:10500:

troll?

I will assume that meant me, from my short stay here..

I'm just saying...

Elijah Muhammad showed young Brother Malcolm a glass of water and a glass of water diluted with ink... para phrasing Elijah--”If you give this clean water to the people they will drink it…..if you give this dirty water to the people they will drink it. It’s your responsibility to make sure they have clean water.”

now some look at it as this to be truth, other say to throw out the water dilluted with ink, because you cant use it for drinking, nor can you use it as ink.

I see truth in both..

the key is to have many options, and seek truth in all that surrounds you..

You have proven that you will not take the Bible as truth, fair enough...I have issues with it too, but you and I differ because, I do not see any need to throw out, all that is in it...

I mentioned the Sermon on the mount, and one poster wanted to argue, whether it was on a plain, or an actual mount..

I heard an expression that went something like

'if you focus too much on the frame, you will miss the whole picture'

true that....

Well, Brother Josef, as long as you agree with their views, you're okay.

But, as soon as you even remotely approved or agreed with any part of the Bible, you became a target, even called a "troll."

And when a Christian, Brother Clyde, co-signed and thanked you for your reply, that, too, sealed your fate.

You referenced the teachings of the "Sermon On The Mount" in Matthew 5, and a poster entered to challenge you to differentiate between the "sermon on the mount" and the "sermon on the plain" in Luke 6.

You didn't say anything about Jesus' "FIRST" sermon at all. You never even used that word, only the other poster specified such.

But, as soon as you mentioned the Bible, you were questioned on the Gospels.

Well, it looks like you can handle yourself pretty well; but I just wanted to let you know that I can most certainly empathize with your reception and treatment in this thread.

Yes, after your comments here, it looks like the "die is cast" for you as well.

But, please know that I feel ya.

Peace and Blessings Family,

I started this thread in 2001, and now all these years later, I finally see. Unfortunately a bit late, as some wonderful Christian Sisters and Brothers have left, and I am sorry for this. I extend my apology to every Christian Sister or Brother that left or did not join, because of the hostile environment found here toward you. I don't blame you for leaving. No one wants to always be in a battle, always fighting to just be who and what they are. Given our history, the pain and anguish of being attacked for who and what we are, seems we'd never do this to each other. But we do, we do just what they've taught us to do. We attack our own.

We will attack a Sister or Brother on one hand, while embracing one on the other. While this is better than attacking our own with both hands, it is not the best we can do. We collectively have a hundred gazillion reasons, why we attack each other. While some of you are choosing to attack these Sisters and Brothers because they are Christians, it is some other Sisters and Brothers attacking some other Sisters and Brothers because they are this, and some other Sisters and Brothers are attacking some other Sisters and Brothers because they are that ... and I'd bet we all fall into one of those groups, this, that, or the other. A perpetual circle of attack and be attacked, so caught up in it, we can't even see when we're doing it. We justify the attacks we inflict on other Sisters and Brothers, or try and diminish our culpability, if we're not in complete denial of the behavior altogether. We attack each other, subtly and overtly, while talking about how can we bring our people together, how can we get Young Brothers to stop killing each other. This is some sort of psychotic behavior probably never officially studied by white people, because they aren't looking for a cure, and the sick don't even know they're sick.

It does not matter to those that want us to hate each other, fight each other, tear each other down, the reason we're doing it. They want you to think the reason that YOU do it, is because YOU are right and the other Sister or Brother is wrong. That is all it takes, and the battle ensues. It is the epitome of the crab in the barrel syndrome, coming from the supposed wisest of us, as we talk of removing like behavior from the masses! We do it as we talk of it! We are doing it to our own Sisters and Brothers. Which amazes me even more, because all of us have Sisters and Brothers, Mothers and Fathers, Aunts, Uncles, and Cousins ... GrandMothers and GrandFathers ... Ancestors ... that live, have lived, and/or died, Christians. This part really blows my mind. Those of you who are so against Christianity, that you would work to make Christians not welcome here, have you removed all Christians from your own Family ... do you harass them on the streets you walk ... wherever you meet one ... or is this behavior demonstrated only at destee.com?

What is really going on.

Brother OldSoul taught a class Micro Insults and Micro Aggression, where he talked about the many and oftentimes subtle ways that white folk violate us, on the job or wherever ... and here we are yet again, doing the same to each other. We are experts at doing to each other, what white folk have done to us. The Victim Becomes The Perpetrator. While some of what has been done to Christians in this community, does not rise to the level of a rule violation, it certainly qualifies as an intentional insult. With this being the case, I will not be going into who said and/or did what, for many are guilty, including me. I think in the early days, I was so hungry for alternative information regarding Spirituality / Religion that I might have been willing to overlook what Christians considered attacks ... things that did not rise to the level of a violation, in and of themselves, but coupled with the insults coming from so many, it was unbearable for them. It wasn't a conscious decision of mine, but now, years later, I can look back and kind of see what got us here. Why we are dealing with today, an issue that presented itself years ago. Allowing these attacks, subtle or otherwise, gave those with alternative Spirituality / Religious insight, unspoken permission to do what they were doing. I think too, because I don't hold a passionate allegiance to any particular Spiritual / Religious path ... yearning to know about them all ... left me a bit more tolerant, insensitive perhaps, to the attacks. I don't know, just thinking out loud for how this came to be, on destee.com.

Now that the years have gone by, and I can clearly see what has taken place, especially of late ... I am in agreement with the Christians ... they have been attacked. There is almost a mob mentality, when it comes to Christians in this community. The mob does not include every single Member, but it is substantive enough, that most Christians are not going to engage in the fight for very long, or even enter this community at all. I've seen this same behavior in times past, when a white person joins us, and announces they are white. Some of the Family will immediately take a defensive posture, attacking instead of welcoming that person in. We've gotten better over the years in this particular regard, as that doesn't happen as immediate and as vicious as in times past, but it's the same energy that Christians receive.

We are blessed to have Sister CherryBlossom and Brother Clyde Coger, who have chosen to remain and fight, unlike most before them. It is their determination to be a part of this community, taking all blows that have come their way, that makes this picture so clear for me ... and i thank and appreciate them both. When Sister Cherry first joined this community, she was immediately attacked, after announcing she was a Christian. She was called out of her name, cursed, accused of being white, all kinds of ugliness. She never violated anyone. She never broke a rule, yet this was the reception she received. Whether anyone wants to count it or not, it's evidence that Christianity is attacked in this forum. If we could say she broke a rule, she called someone out of their name, that she violated our reason for being, then we might have a leg to stand on ... but that is not the case. Instead of Christians being received warmly, as each and every one of you were, they are attacked. Many of you want to blame Sister Cherry for the warnings, suspensions, and bannings received by those who attacked her, but that is wrong. Each and every one that received a warning, suspension, and/or ban, earned that their own selves. They are each totally and independently responsible for their own behavior, their own choice to break our rules, and no matter how much you try to lay that blame at her feet ... you can't. An indicator that I am guilty too, is when I initially suspended Sister Cherry, caught up just like the rest of us. If I had not been able to stop, and think, what did she do wrong ... what rule did she violate ... I would have been giving unspoken permission for the attacks on Christians. My being able to see it that time, and stop myself, gives me to know I've probably done it in the past without even realizing it. I thank God for letting me see. I understand where the venom comes from, the desire to attack Christians, but it is misplaced. You / We are fighting the wrong ones.

If this experience for me, had not covered so much space and time ... 2001 - 2009 ... I probably would not understand it like I do. I understand the need for some of us to attack each other. I understand it. I understand where it comes from and why you feel so justified in doing it. I do not want to take your right away from you, but I can not and will not let you do it here. Since God allowed Our Core Foundational Pieces (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59361) to come out of me, to be said aloud, I am even more empowered, and determined, to live up to them. This community has 10+ years of being true to the Spirit of those words, and it will not stop now. If you want to attack Sisters and Brothers, for any reason, you must go somewhere else to do it.

This community has a unique and specific purpose, a desire to transcend the crab in the barrel mentality that we all speak of and can point out in others, yet never see in ourselves. Every single Sister and Brother in the entire world, no matter where they are or where they have been, will be respected in this community. If you don't feel you have disrespected any one, yet you've received warnings, suspensions, or bannings, then you are in denial or don't know what respect is. Either way, I don't have the time, energy, or desire, to deal with it. Those taking part in these discussions, in this community, must have some sense of it (respect) on their own and are able to demonstrate that, or they cannot remain here. This is not personal. It's business. The business of bringing our people together in the very best of manners. It is the specific agenda and purpose of this community, to manifest our people interacting respectfully, for our children to see. If you cannot contribute to that, live up to that, or agree with that ... then you should leave ... for the only other option, is to have me throw you out ... and while I don't want to do that, I will if I must. The choice is yours, for this era, disrespecting Christians on destee.com, is over.

If you need more elaboration than already provided, please read The Core Foundational Pieces of Destee (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59361), for that is what guides this effort.

It's taken some time for us to get here, and it will probably take some time to turn it around, but it will be turned around.

Christians, and all Sisters and Brothers are welcome here, and will be respected.

Love You!

:heart:

Destee

Peace and Blessings Family,

I started this thread in 2001, and now all these years later, I finally see. Unfortunately a bit late, as some wonderful Christian Sisters and Brothers have left, and I am sorry for this. I extend my apology to every Christian Sister or Brother that left or did not join, because of the hostile environment found here toward you. I don't blame you for leaving. No one wants to always be in a battle, always fighting to just be who and what they are. Given our history, the pain and anguish of being attacked for who and what we are, seems we'd never do this to each other. But we do, we do just what they've taught us to do. We attack our own.

We will attack a Sister or Brother on one hand, while embracing one on the other. While this is better than attacking our own with both hands, it is not the best we can do. We collectively have a hundred gazillion reasons, why we attack each other. While some of you are choosing to attack these Sisters and Brothers because they are Christians, it is some other Sisters and Brothers attacking some other Sisters and Brothers because they are this, and some other Sisters and Brothers are attacking some other Sisters and Brothers because they are that ... and I'd bet we all fall into one of those groups, this, that, or the other. A perpetual circle of attack and be attacked, so caught up in it, we can't even see when we're doing it. We justify the attacks we inflict on other Sisters and Brothers, or try and diminish our culpability, if we're not in complete denial of the behavior altogether. We attack each other, subtly and overtly, while talking about how can we bring our people together, how can we get Young Brothers to stop killing each other. This is some sort of psychotic behavior probably never officially studied by white people, because they aren't looking for a cure, and the sick don't even know they're sick.

It does not matter to those that want us to hate each other, fight each other, tear each other down, the reason we're doing it. They want you to think the reason that YOU do it, is because YOU are right and the other Sister or Brother is wrong. That is all it takes, and the battle ensues. It is the epitome of the crab in the barrel syndrome, coming from the supposed wisest of us, as we talk of removing like behavior from the masses! We do it as we talk of it! We are doing it to our own Sisters and Brothers. Which amazes me even more, because all of us have Sisters and Brothers, Mothers and Fathers, Aunts, Uncles, and Cousins ... GrandMothers and GrandFathers ... Ancestors ... that live, have lived, and/or died, Christians. This part really blows my mind. Those of you who are so against Christianity, that you would work to make Christians not welcome here, have you removed all Christians from your own Family ... do you harass them on the streets you walk ... wherever you meet one ... or is this behavior demonstrated only at destee.com?

What is really going on.

Brother OldSoul taught a class Micro Insults and Micro Aggression, where he talked about the many and oftentimes subtle ways that white folk violate us, on the job or wherever ... and here we are yet again, doing the same to each other. We are experts at doing to each other, what white folk have done to us. The Victim Becomes The Perpetrator. While some of what has been done to Christians in this community, does not rise to the level of a rule violation, it certainly qualifies as an intentional insult. With this being the case, I will not be going into who said and/or did what, for many are guilty, including me. I think in the early days, I was so hungry for alternative information regarding Spirituality / Religion that I might have been willing to overlook what Christians considered attacks ... things that did not rise to the level of a violation, in and of themselves, but coupled with the insults coming from so many, it was unbearable for them. It wasn't a conscious decision of mine, but now, years later, I can look back and kind of see what got us here. Why we are dealing with today, an issue that presented itself years ago. Allowing these attacks, subtle or otherwise, gave those with alternative Spirituality / Religious insight, unspoken permission to do what they were doing. I think too, because I don't hold a passionate allegiance to any particular Spiritual / Religious path ... yearning to know about them all ... left me a bit more tolerant, insensitive perhaps, to the attacks. I don't know, just thinking out loud for how this came to be, on destee.com.

Now that the years have gone by, and I can clearly see what has taken place, especially of late ... I am in agreement with the Christians ... they have been attacked. There is almost a mob mentality, when it comes to Christians in this community. The mob does not include every single Member, but it is substantive enough, that most Christians are not going to engage in the fight for very long, or even enter this community at all. I've seen this same behavior in times past, when a white person joins us, and announces they are white. Some of the Family will immediately take a defensive posture, attacking instead of welcoming that person in. We've gotten better over the years in this particular regard, as that doesn't happen as immediate and as vicious as in times past, but it's the same energy that Christians receive.

We are blessed to have Sister CherryBlossom and Brother Clyde Coger, who have chosen to remain and fight, unlike most before them. It is their determination to be a part of this community, taking all blows that have come their way, that makes this picture so clear for me ... and i thank and appreciate them both. When Sister Cherry first joined this community, she was immediately attacked, after announcing she was a Christian. She was called out of her name, cursed, accused of being white, all kinds of ugliness. She never violated anyone. She never broke a rule, yet this was the reception she received. Whether anyone wants to count it or not, it's evidence that Christianity is attacked in this forum. If we could say she broke a rule, she called someone out of their name, that she violated our reason for being, then we might have a leg to stand on ... but that is not the case. Instead of Christians being received warmly, as each and every one of you were, they are attacked. Many of you want to blame Sister Cherry for the warnings, suspensions, and bannings received by those who attacked her, but that is wrong. Each and every one that received a warning, suspension, and/or ban, earned that their own selves. They are each totally and independently responsible for their own behavior, their own choice to break our rules, and no matter how much you try to lay that blame at her feet ... you can't. An indicator that I am guilty too, is when I initially suspended Sister Cherry, caught up just like the rest of us. If I had not been able to stop, and think, what did she do wrong ... what rule did she violate ... I would have been giving unspoken permission for the attacks on Christians. My being able to see it that time, and stop myself, gives me to know I've probably done it in the past without even realizing it. I thank God for letting me see. I understand where the venom comes from, the desire to attack Christians, but it is misplaced. You / We are fighting the wrong ones.

If this experience for me, had not covered so much space and time ... 2001 - 2009 ... I probably would not understand it like I do. I understand the need for some of us to attack each other. I understand it. I understand where it comes from and why you feel so justified in doing it. I do not want to take your right away from you, but I can not and will not let you do it here. Since God allowed Our Core Foundational Pieces (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59361) to come out of me, to be said aloud, I am even more empowered, and determined, to live up to them. This community has 10+ years of being true to the Spirit of those words, and it will not stop now. If you want to attack Sisters and Brothers, for any reason, you must go somewhere else to do it.

This community has a unique and specific purpose, a desire to transcend the crab in the barrel mentality that we all speak of and can point out in others, yet never see in ourselves. Every single Sister and Brother in the entire world, no matter where they are or where they have been, will be respected in this community. If you don't feel you have disrespected any one, yet you've received warnings, suspensions, or bannings, then you are in denial or don't know what respect is. Either way, I don't have the time, energy, or desire, to deal with it. Those taking part in these discussions, in this community, must have some sense of it (respect) on their own and are able to demonstrate that, or they cannot remain here. This is not personal. It's business. The business of bringing our people together in the very best of manners. It is the specific agenda and purpose of this community, to manifest our people interacting respectfully, for our children to see. If you cannot contribute to that, live up to that, or agree with that ... then you should leave ... for the only other option, is to have me throw you out ... and while I don't want to do that, I will if I must. The choice is yours, for this era, disrespecting Christians on destee.com, is over.

If you need more elaboration than already provided, please read The Core Foundational Pieces of Destee (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59361), for that is what guides this effort.

It's taken some time for us to get here, and it will probably take some time to turn it around, but it will be turned around.

Christians, and all Sisters and Brothers are welcome here, and will be respected.

Love You!

:heart:

Destee

Sister Destee, from the bottom of my heart, I thank you for this!

This was absolutely beautiful, and you've made me get misty-eyed.

I am so touched and moved by this, not just for myself and Brother Clyde but for every other Christian member past and present, the ones who were vocal and the ones who were silent, and the ones who have remained guests, preferring to stay "on the outside, looking in" rather than join.

I just can't even adequately express to you how much your words here mean to me.

I can only give a most heart-felt THANK YOU and a sincere HUG!


http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6131/hugc.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/i/hugc.jpg/)

as a non believer in the Volcanic Christian God and his Sun/son I have no feelings about members agreeing or disagreeing.

The fact is Christians are "emotionally" too close to the topic of religion rather than "objectively" close to the topic of spirituality" -- which is a totally different realm.

Choosing to search for the truth is a personal, individual choice. Personally, I do not attack w/o provocation....and know I have been very fair here; except when a Christian attacks me w/o doing the necessary unglamourous research -- an action that --to me-- is totally insane, as it is similiar to biting the hand that feeds the mouth...!

Ase':qqb015:

The facts as they are laid out by non believers are not meant to

incriminate believers
insult believers
or indict believers

The fact that some turn from Godly to virulent whenever concrete information and "well" researched facts are presented -- point to a level of behavior know as cognitive dissonance (e.g. extreme denial). A behavior that is clearly representative of one who is illogical and backward in their thinking facilities.

No one holds any member of this site or any other site to the:

organization
development
maintenance and
plagarized theft

...of the systemized device known as religion.



Ase:qqb015:

I don’t think Christianity is being attacked in this forum. People are just sharing their views from which many blogs and websites do not allow. Bring up the topic of religion in this big fish tank called the internet and you get the boot. The freethinkers like myself aren’t trying to abolish Christianity or make mockery of it. If Christianity were once abolished how could the freethinkers ,the strong reasoners, and people of profound curiosity, be able to find another subject to showcase and display their talents. Destee isn’t a cesspool of doubt and cynicism, its just knee deep in showcasing the variety of opinions and thoughts of the African-American experience.

Hello CherryBlossom

.... The fact is Christians are "emotionally" too close to the topic of religion rather than "objectively" close to the topic of spirituality" -- which is a totally different realm.

Well, I do hear your viewpoint.

However, it may seem "emotional" to you, but until you are called a "programmed *****" and other vulgarities because your religious belief doesn't align with the spirituality of another, then I don't think you can "subjectively" overstand.


Choosing to search for the truth is a personal, individual choice....

Now, to that, I gotta give you an AMEN!

when i first got turned on to kametic spirituality i used to want to convert everybody.
i was frustrated by the christians unwilling to see my truth. i attacked.

i was immature.

there is a bunch of christains in this world and i don't want to burn up me time left on the planet in warfare.

i say, let's all get along as best we can.

if christans actually follow christ and model they behavior on his example, they not so bad.
i think we should work together on the issues that we can and leave the rest alone.

i will not be around that much longer.
when i get to the other side i will check it all out and come back and let you know which side is right.

why not wait until i can do that?

I say, let's all get along as best we can.

if christans actually follow christ and model they behavior on his example, they not so bad.
I think we should work together on the issues that we can and leave the rest alone.

I will not be around that much longer.
when I get to the other side I will check it all out and come back and let you know which side is right.

why not wait until I can do that?

A beautiful, and uplifting day *time*,, when all can adopt those principals...

And hopefully Bro, on your return, You will report

back that you were in good company, of Great Brothers, and Sisters, from all walks...
religious ones included...:wb:

... my name is james and i used to attack christians........ a reflection of honesty


when i first got turned on to kametic spirituality i used to want to convert everybody.
i was frustrated by the christians unwilling to see my truth. i attacked.

i was immature.

there is a bunch of christains in this world and i don't want to burn up me time left on the planet in warfare.

i say, let's all get along as best we can.

if christans actually follow christ and model they behavior on his example, they not so bad.
i think we should work together on the issues that we can and leave the rest alone.

i will not be around that much longer.
when i get to the other side i will check it all out and come back and let you know which side is right.

why not wait until i can do that?




jamesfrmphilly,
:teach: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Well said jamesfrmphilly, well said indeed.
There is just one thing I ask: may I hold you to reporting back your findings:)...Peace In my brother Friend, jamesfrmphilly, for real!

trust me, i will report back. :ghost: probably around 4AM in yr bedroom during a thunderstorm.

trust me, i will report back. :ghost:

probably around 4AM in yr bedroom during a thunderstorm.



Good, lol, now go back and give me a thank you for all the love I gave:)

No, Christianity is not under attack in this forum. It is easy to perceive that because those of us who used to be christian are passionate about others (who we were just like) leaving the religion in favor of what we (in our opinions) feel is a more truthful pursuit.

Yes, there were times that I was just like James; both attacking and immature. I did not feel it was my responsibility to protect the other person's feelings because truth (the absolute and verifiable kinds) should be disseminated irrespective of those whom are opposed to it. I learned long ago, however, that unless a person WANTS to see things from a different viewpoint they won't. Facts, logic, evidence, opinions, and persuasion don't mean anything to the person who did not ask for them. So, in growth I stopped attacking and simply gave info to people who thought they wanted it. But, inevitably when a debate ensued I was the one being attacked by people who were not acting so Christ-like. It was and is disheartening to say the least.

So, yes we can all get along and focus on the problems in our community that can be solved by unity. I am all for that. But, don't ask me to start our meetings off with a prayer because then I feel like I am under attack.

Christianity specifically is not under attack in this forum, but false teachings and other tools that keep our people in bondage are. If Christianity meets that criteria, then too bad.

Peace and Blessings Family,

I started this thread in 2001, and now all these years later, I finally see. Unfortunately a bit late, as some wonderful Christian Sisters and Brothers have left, and I am sorry for this. I extend my apology to every Christian Sister or Brother that left or did not join, because of the hostile environment found here toward you. I don't blame you for leaving. No one wants to always be in a battle, always fighting to just be who and what they are. Given our history, the pain and anguish of being attacked for who and what we are, seems we'd never do this to each other. But we do, we do just what they've taught us to do. We attack our own.

We will attack a Sister or Brother on one hand, while embracing one on the other. While this is better than attacking our own with both hands, it is not the best we can do. We collectively have a hundred gazillion reasons, why we attack each other. While some of you are choosing to attack these Sisters and Brothers because they are Christians, it is some other Sisters and Brothers attacking some other Sisters and Brothers because they are this, and some other Sisters and Brothers are attacking some other Sisters and Brothers because they are that ... and I'd bet we all fall into one of those groups, this, that, or the other. A perpetual circle of attack and be attacked, so caught up in it, we can't even see when we're doing it. We justify the attacks we inflict on other Sisters and Brothers, or try and diminish our culpability, if we're not in complete denial of the behavior altogether. We attack each other, subtly and overtly, while talking about how can we bring our people together, how can we get Young Brothers to stop killing each other. This is some sort of psychotic behavior probably never officially studied by white people, because they aren't looking for a cure, and the sick don't even know they're sick.

It does not matter to those that want us to hate each other, fight each other, tear each other down, the reason we're doing it. They want you to think the reason that YOU do it, is because YOU are right and the other Sister or Brother is wrong. That is all it takes, and the battle ensues. It is the epitome of the crab in the barrel syndrome, coming from the supposed wisest of us, as we talk of removing like behavior from the masses! We do it as we talk of it! We are doing it to our own Sisters and Brothers. Which amazes me even more, because all of us have Sisters and Brothers, Mothers and Fathers, Aunts, Uncles, and Cousins ... GrandMothers and GrandFathers ... Ancestors ... that live, have lived, and/or died, Christians. This part really blows my mind. Those of you who are so against Christianity, that you would work to make Christians not welcome here, have you removed all Christians from your own Family ... do you harass them on the streets you walk ... wherever you meet one ... or is this behavior demonstrated only at destee.com?

What is really going on.

Brother OldSoul taught a class Micro Insults and Micro Aggression, where he talked about the many and oftentimes subtle ways that white folk violate us, on the job or wherever ... and here we are yet again, doing the same to each other. We are experts at doing to each other, what white folk have done to us. The Victim Becomes The Perpetrator. While some of what has been done to Christians in this community, does not rise to the level of a rule violation, it certainly qualifies as an intentional insult. With this being the case, I will not be going into who said and/or did what, for many are guilty, including me. I think in the early days, I was so hungry for alternative information regarding Spirituality / Religion that I might have been willing to overlook what Christians considered attacks ... things that did not rise to the level of a violation, in and of themselves, but coupled with the insults coming from so many, it was unbearable for them. It wasn't a conscious decision of mine, but now, years later, I can look back and kind of see what got us here. Why we are dealing with today, an issue that presented itself years ago. Allowing these attacks, subtle or otherwise, gave those with alternative Spirituality / Religious insight, unspoken permission to do what they were doing. I think too, because I don't hold a passionate allegiance to any particular Spiritual / Religious path ... yearning to know about them all ... left me a bit more tolerant, insensitive perhaps, to the attacks. I don't know, just thinking out loud for how this came to be, on destee.com.

Now that the years have gone by, and I can clearly see what has taken place, especially of late ... I am in agreement with the Christians ... they have been attacked. There is almost a mob mentality, when it comes to Christians in this community. The mob does not include every single Member, but it is substantive enough, that most Christians are not going to engage in the fight for very long, or even enter this community at all. I've seen this same behavior in times past, when a white person joins us, and announces they are white. Some of the Family will immediately take a defensive posture, attacking instead of welcoming that person in. We've gotten better over the years in this particular regard, as that doesn't happen as immediate and as vicious as in times past, but it's the same energy that Christians receive.

We are blessed to have Sister CherryBlossom and Brother Clyde Coger, who have chosen to remain and fight, unlike most before them. It is their determination to be a part of this community, taking all blows that have come their way, that makes this picture so clear for me ... and i thank and appreciate them both. When Sister Cherry first joined this community, she was immediately attacked, after announcing she was a Christian. She was called out of her name, cursed, accused of being white, all kinds of ugliness. She never violated anyone. She never broke a rule, yet this was the reception she received. Whether anyone wants to count it or not, it's evidence that Christianity is attacked in this forum. If we could say she broke a rule, she called someone out of their name, that she violated our reason for being, then we might have a leg to stand on ... but that is not the case. Instead of Christians being received warmly, as each and every one of you were, they are attacked. Many of you want to blame Sister Cherry for the warnings, suspensions, and bannings received by those who attacked her, but that is wrong. Each and every one that received a warning, suspension, and/or ban, earned that their own selves. They are each totally and independently responsible for their own behavior, their own choice to break our rules, and no matter how much you try to lay that blame at her feet ... you can't. An indicator that I am guilty too, is when I initially suspended Sister Cherry, caught up just like the rest of us. If I had not been able to stop, and think, what did she do wrong ... what rule did she violate ... I would have been giving unspoken permission for the attacks on Christians. My being able to see it that time, and stop myself, gives me to know I've probably done it in the past without even realizing it. I thank God for letting me see. I understand where the venom comes from, the desire to attack Christians, but it is misplaced. You / We are fighting the wrong ones.

If this experience for me, had not covered so much space and time ... 2001 - 2009 ... I probably would not understand it like I do. I understand the need for some of us to attack each other. I understand it. I understand where it comes from and why you feel so justified in doing it. I do not want to take your right away from you, but I can not and will not let you do it here. Since God allowed Our Core Foundational Pieces (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59361) to come out of me, to be said aloud, I am even more empowered, and determined, to live up to them. This community has 10+ years of being true to the Spirit of those words, and it will not stop now. If you want to attack Sisters and Brothers, for any reason, you must go somewhere else to do it.

This community has a unique and specific purpose, a desire to transcend the crab in the barrel mentality that we all speak of and can point out in others, yet never see in ourselves. Every single Sister and Brother in the entire world, no matter where they are or where they have been, will be respected in this community. If you don't feel you have disrespected any one, yet you've received warnings, suspensions, or bannings, then you are in denial or don't know what respect is. Either way, I don't have the time, energy, or desire, to deal with it. Those taking part in these discussions, in this community, must have some sense of it (respect) on their own and are able to demonstrate that, or they cannot remain here. This is not personal. It's business. The business of bringing our people together in the very best of manners. It is the specific agenda and purpose of this community, to manifest our people interacting respectfully, for our children to see. If you cannot contribute to that, live up to that, or agree with that ... then you should leave ... for the only other option, is to have me throw you out ... and while I don't want to do that, I will if I must. The choice is yours, for this era, disrespecting Christians on destee.com, is over.

If you need more elaboration than already provided, please read The Core Foundational Pieces of Destee (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59361), for that is what guides this effort.

It's taken some time for us to get here, and it will probably take some time to turn it around, but it will be turned around.

Christians, and all Sisters and Brothers are welcome here, and will be respected.

Love You!

:heart:

Destee

Wow! This was so nice to read! Even though my name was not mentioned as a believer in Jesus Christ, I've read this post and really appreciated it.

The lies and foolish fables, idiotic statements, things stolen from anchient africa as well as the fake images deserve to be attacked.:toast:

The facts as they are laid out by non believers are not meant to

incriminate believers
insult believers
or indict believers

The fact that some turn from Godly to virulent whenever concrete information and "well" researched facts are presented -- point to a level of behavior know as cognitive dissonance (e.g. extreme denial). A behavior that is clearly representative of one who is illogical and backward in their thinking facilities.

No one holds any member of this site or any other site to the:

organization
development
maintenance and
plagarized theft

...of the systemized device known as religion.



Ase:qqb015:

Sister Fine ... it's not often that you call my name, so i can hardly pass this post by, without saying something.

But i don't know what to say ... except ... okay .. and Thank You! :)

Love You!

:heart:

Destee

Christianity specifically is not under attack in this forum, but false teachings and other tools that keep our people in bondage are. If Christianity meets that criteria, then too bad.

Brother Onyemobi ... yes, Christianity specifically has been under attack, but it is not anymore.

In fact, I will be striving to make our entire community ... attack free ... so what you've said above is not true.

It will not be "too bad" for the things you consider false, to be attacked.

Instead, it will be "too bad" for the person who thinks they have the right to attack the beliefs of others.

:heart:

Destee

The lies and foolish fables, idiotic statements, things stolen from anchient africa as well as the fake images deserve to be attacked.:toast:

Brother Offthetable ... nothing in this community deserves to be attacked.

All any of us are doing, as it relates to Spirituality / Religion, is sharing what someone else told us.

We each have the right to believe as we choose, and for those beliefs to be respected ... and they will be ... on destee.com.

:heart:

Destee

Family ... i'm so proud of us! :grouphug:

Thanks to those who have admitted to being a bit harsh toward Christians. Thank You.

We can't even begin to solve our problems, until we admit we have them. This is a great first step.

I'm not sure how exactly we're going to pull this off, creating a space where every Sister and Brother's opinion, life choice, hope, and dream, can be respected. It's taken some years to get here, years of mistreating Christians, where some in the Family have become quite accustomed to doing such here.

For those who say that Christianity has not been attacked in this community, well, maybe you haven't attacked Christianity or Christians, but the attacks have taken place.

If you are one that has never attacked, then you can carry on as you always have, for it's probably safe to say, you are not the problem.

If you have been warned, suspended, or banned, then you'll probably find the upcoming changes more difficult to bear.

We will be patient with you, as it's taken some time to get here, and we're not trying to send anyone into any kind of shock syndrome situation, placing overwhelming change on you, all at one time ... but change is required.

Our community has always welcomed challenges, and that has not changed. You're welcome to challenge, counter, debate, anything you'd like, so long as you do it respectfully. The key to this effort's success, is that we learn to recognize that there is a difference between respectful challenge, presentation of fact (as we know or believe it), and downright disrespect. There is a difference, and we have to learn that difference if we are to interact with each other in the best of manners.

We have to allow every grown man and woman, the same rights we want, to live and worship as they please. Some of us seem to have a problem with that, while at the same time, wanting to live how we want to live. It's krazee to me ... wanting to control your own life, and another's, but this very forum proves that it happens.

I have told the Moderating TEAM, that since I allowed this situation to exist all of these years, I will be responsible for righting the wrong. I will personally monitor the Spirituality / Religion Forums, to be sure that our discussions are held to the highest standards, insuring that everyone respects the other.

So ... don't be surprised if I come in and give you a gentle warning for what has never been warned about in the past. I feel I owe it to the Christians ... more importantly, to our reason for being ... to give them some extra protection at this point, since I've allowed them to be mistreated for so long. It's my thought that doing this will begin to right the wrong, bring balance back to this effort, making the playing field level for all life paths. It will also give everyone an opportunity to see what is acceptable, and what is not, if you do not already know. If ultimately, you cannot interact without disrespecting, without attacking ... based on my own opinion ... then you will be banned.

The bottomline Family, is that everyone is welcome here.

Everyone has the right to believe, live, and share that with us, as they please, without harassment.

While it may not be real easy to pull off, I'm confident, and grateful already, for the support of this Family.

Thank You All So Much.

:heart:

Destee

Brother Offthetable ... nothing in this community deserves to be attacked.

All any of us are doing, as it relates to Spirituality / Religion, is sharing what someone else told us.

We each have the right to believe as we choose, and for those beliefs to be respected ... and they will be ... on destee.com.

:heart:

Destee



did not read my whole piece. pls try again.

did not read my whole piece. pls try again.

i read it all, and again ... and my response remains the same.

:heart:

Destee

i read it all, and again ... and my response remains the same.

:heart:

Destee



Not Christianity as such but

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The lies and foolish fables, idiotic statements, things stolen from anchient africa as well as the fake images deserve to be attacked

deserve to be attacked

Nothing, and no one, deserves to be attacked in this community.

If that is what you're interested in doing, attacking, then you can leave now ... save us both some time and energy.

:heart:

Destee

much love!

Ase':qqb015:

with bible verses as opposed to actual documented proof and evidence?


Ase':qqb015:

Ase':qqb015:

is not the same as attacking.

I understand and empathize with your, Cherry Blossom.



Ase':qqb015::qqb015:

Q. Are you able to disprove the innuendo? ... both
with bible verses as opposed to actual documented proof and evidence?


Ase':qqb015:




Fine1952, this post confuses me, to whom are you responding?

It seems that you have got the wires crossed. The title of my response to cherryblossom that seems to confuse you is...

Q. Are you able to disprove the innuendo?

Not

Originally Posted by Fine1952 http://destee.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?p=599653#post599653)
Well Stated...!


What then is your premise for posting the wrong title and then expressing confusion. One thing you must know, I was not borne yesterday. I mean what I say and I say what I mean and I follow threads, precisely and concisely...!

Re-read the dialogue

It seems that you have got the wires crossed. The title of my response to cherryblossom that seems to confuse you is...

Q. Are you able to disprove the innuendo?

Not

Originally Posted by Fine1952 http://destee.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?p=599653#post599653)
Well Stated...!


What then is your premise for posting the wrong title and then expressing confusion. One thing you must know, I was not borne yesterday. I mean what I say and I say what I mean and I follow threads, precisely and concisely...!


Sister Fine1952, even though he accidentally mixed them, I can relate to Brother Clyde's question. I didn't know who you were talking to either.

In those 2 previous posts, you did not quote anyone nor address anyone by name.....I wasn't aware that we were having a "dialogue." ---Our last exchange was two pages ago. So, my "wires" were crossed too. I was confused as to whom you were speaking as well.

You may be following the threads very closely but if you don't include a quote or specify a name, the READER will not know whom you're referencing.----How was I to know that you were still talking to me from 2 pages ago??

The only time I knew you were talking to me was here:

educating and enlightening

is not the same as attacking.

I understand and empathize with your, Cherry Blossom.


However, what "innuendo" are you speaking of?


Q. Are you able to disprove the innuendo
with bible verses as opposed to actual documented proof and evidence?


Ase':qqb015:

....Oh, and Sister Fine1952, I DO want to answer your question. I just don't know what you're talking about. I went back 3 pages and read your first post to me, but I don't know what "innuendo" you're talking about.


hello Cherryblossom
as a non believer in the Volcanic Christian God and his Sun/son I have no feelings about members agreeing or disagreeing.

The fact is Christians are "emotionally" too close to the topic of religion rather than "objectively" close to the topic of spirituality" -- which is a totally different realm.

Choosing to search for the truth is a personal, individual choice. Personally, I do not attack w/o provocation....and know I have been very fair here; except when a Christian attacks me w/o doing the necessary unglamourous research -- an action that --to me-- is totally insane, as it is similiar to biting the hand that feeds the mouth...!

Ase':qqb015:


This was my reply:

Hello Fine1952
Originally Posted by Fine1952
Hello CherryBlossom

.... The fact is Christians are "emotionally" too close to the topic of religion rather than "objectively" close to the topic of spirituality" -- which is a totally different realm.

Well, I do hear your viewpoint.

However, it may seem "emotional" to you, but until you are called a "programmed *****" and other vulgarities because your religious belief doesn't align with the spirituality of another, then I don't think you can "subjectively" overstand.

Originally Posted by Fine1952
Choosing to search for the truth is a personal, individual choice..


Now, to that, I gotta give you an AMEN!


What's the "innuendo" you're speaking of?

...Re-read the dialogue... see, this is the extra work I refer to, I must always re-read the dialogue in order to follow your replies. Pleace re-consider how you reply to posts.

It seems that you have got the wires crossed. The title of my response to cherryblossom that seems to confuse you is...

Q. Are you able to disprove the innuendo?

Not

Originally Posted by Fine1952 http://destee.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?p=599653#post599653)
Well Stated...!


What then is your premise for posting the wrong title and then expressing confusion. One thing you must know, I was not borne yesterday. I mean what I say and I say what I mean and I follow threads, precisely and concisely...!




Sister Fine1952,

My premise for posting the wrong title is simple, it was a mistake(the posts look so similar). The confusion is genuine, as I have stated to you before, on many occasions, your failure to quote or identify the person to whom you reply to is very difficult to understand, at times (please consider correcting this). While you may follow threads precisely and correctly, it is very hard to follow yours...so much for the innunendo.

Personally, I do not quite get your level of confusion.

I responded to Cherry Blossom with the title "Hello Cherry Blossom" at 8:33am on August 26 and then she responded back to me with the title "Hello Fine1952" at 11:25am on the same date. I then responded back to her in 3 days at 8:41am on August 29.

At 10:38pm on August 29 you responded before she had a chance to respond with a different title, content and context.

Are you clear now?

Ase

... No problem... Oh yes there is a problem

Personally, I do not quite get your level of confusion.

I responded to Cherry Blossom with the title "Hello Cherry Blossom" at 8:33am on August 26 and then she responded back to me with the title "Hello Fine1952" at 11:25am on the same date. I then responded back to her in 3 days at 8:41am on August 29.

At 10:38pm on August 29 you responded before she had a chance to respond with a different title, content and context.

Are you clear now?

Ase




No, I am not clear now Fine1952, personally; in fact, I am even more confused as to why you give me a breakdown on posts between you and others and why you did not specifically answer me about the issues I raised to you.

Fine1952this post confuses me, to whom are you responding?

A. I was clearly responding to your buddy -- Cherry Blossom

Well, I do hear your viewpoint.

However, it may seem "emotional" to you, but until you are called a "programmed *****" and other vulgarities because your religious belief doesn't align with the spirituality of another, then I don't think you can "subjectively" overstand.

This is the specific innuendo, that Cherry Blossom mentioneL
a "programmed ****** and other vulgarities..."

Innuendo(noun) - indiscreet suggestion, an indirect or subtle reference to something rude or unpleasant [Latin: by hinting]

A. I was clearly responding to your buddy -- Cherry Blossom



This is the specific innuendo, that Cherry Blossom mentioneL
a "programmed ****** and other vulgarities..."

Innuendo(noun) - indiscreet suggestion, an indirect or subtle reference to something rude or unpleasant [Latin: by hinting]


Sister Fine1952, when I said, "programmed b#tch," I was not using "innuendo." ---That was a DIRECT QUOTE from a former member of this site.

And when I said, "other vulgarities," that too referenced DIRECT PROFANITY to me from other members of this site.

All of the above is documented here in various threads.

my perception in the use of innuendo is correct and stands....!:smash:

I am sorry that someone singled you out personally with this phrasology.:em0200:

My disdain is never with individuals until they "personally attack me". My disdtain is with the entire man - made female hating structure of religion...!:smash::smash::smash:

Thanks, for responding though...!

Bingo: Tag Team Match... What? lol


my perception in the use of innuendo is correct and stands....!:smash:

I am sorry that someone singled you out personally with this phrasology.:em0200:

My disdain is never with individuals until they "personally attack me". My disdtain is with the entire man - made female hating structure of religion...!:smash::smash::smash:

Thanks, for responding though...!




Bingo?(what is this bingo?) Okay Fine1952, at this point, I dis-engage...Peace In my sister friend.

As far as I am concerned, I've proven my point: you come either before or after Cherry Blossom and this is in fact a tag team match on me...!.

I accept the challenge...bring it!

... LOL... right, this is quite funny, for real!

As far as I am concerned, I've proven my point: you come either before or after Cherry Blossom and this is in fact a tag team match on me...!.

I accept the challenge...bring it!



No Fine1952, this is an open discussion Forum, which allows any registered member to post at any time. And you have not proven any point other than that cherryblossom and I are both Christians that understand our heritage in the Bible.

There is no challenge here, there is nothing to challenge, other than the fact that you continue to post without quoting, which causes confusion about whom you are replying to. Obviously, you don't intend on changing nor addressing this most salient point...Peace In my sister friend.

A. I was clearly responding to your buddy -- Cherry Blossom

No, Sister, it was not clear that you were responding to me. And there is no "tag team" going on. I truly did not know what nor whom you were referencing until you explained it.

This thread is now on page 20.

You directly addressed/questioned me on page 16. I responded to your question on page 17.

But between my answer to you and your next posts to me, there are 2 pages of posts from other people. So, by page 19, I had no idea you were still talking to me. You did not quote me. And you only directly addressed me in one of them.

Sister, YOU know who you're talking to, but the READER won't know between several pages of posts when you just come back in and pick up where you left off.

Now, to help solve this misunderstanding, I did go BACK and retrieve the older posts, but the reader shouldn't have to run down whom you're talking to.

This is just constructive criticism, Sister....But, if you would use the quote feature or at least use the person's name you're talking to, there wouldn't be any misunderstanding. Otherwise, there is no way the reader will know whom you're addressing after other people have posted between your last post and the next.

I didn't mean to ignore your posts, but until you used my name, I didn't know you were talking to me.

As far as I am concerned, I've proven my point: you come either before or after Cherry Blossom and this is in fact a tag team match on me...!.

I accept the challenge...bring it!

lol Sister Fine ... ready to fight ... :love:

Sister ... i thought you were talking to me too. It was only after others responded, that I was able to determine ... okay ... she's not asking me that question.

It's all good Sister ... You're The Best! :grouphug:

:heart:

Destee

our decidedly "ignorant ruin as a result of not knowing or wanting to know the truth...!


Ase':qqb015:

Here's what black people should do, tear out the page with the ten commandments, and have it laminated and hang it on your wall or better yet, carry it your wallet to reference to whenever you make a decision. The rest of the worship a jew book you can use to wipe your behind with or burn. It's Amun-Ra, not Amen. Research it.

That's my "BIG" opinion.

Here's what black people should do, tear out the page with the ten commandments, and have it laminated and hang it on your wall or better yet, carry it your wallet to reference to whenever you make a decision. The rest of the worship a jew book you can use to wipe your behind with or burn. It's Amun-Ra, not Amen. Research it.

That's my "BIG" opinion.




Many will say that I should have just let this post fly or float without a response to it. But I must stop by at least to say thank you for your attitude toward the ten commandments...Peace In bigtown, for real!

Is Christianity being attacked in this forum?

Hmm... I really thought about this hard and I would say, to a degree, yes.

Have I personally been one of its attackers?

Again I would say yes.

Has it been fairly attacked or have I fairly attacked Christianity?

Not always. I have thrown a mighty few low blows....

I will state actually I've waged a few "jihads" against Christianity.

I will continue with my self-purging and my overall analysis as time permits.

Tuhwi

Continue....

Do I hate Christians or Christianity?

Not so much that. What I do hate is what Christianity has been used for throughout the world? That is as a vehicle for white supremacy. It is due to white supremacy that many people in the world know of Jesus and Christianity. That is mainly the issue at hand. Part of the Christian doctrine is testify and speak about Christianity to the world... That I see as being cultural hegemony, under the pretense of "religion", or if you will cultural terrorism - where initially religion was tied to a particular peoples worldview and its promise was offering a way for a culture to organize and make of the world it existed in. Thus to attempt to initiate religious conversion or send out missionaries is a covert form of cultural overthrow.

Christianity has a history of being such an aggressor on the world's stage that, whether they are wrong or right, the attacks against it are, in part, just retribution. The attacks are partly a reaction against an action. When my ancestors came to these shores, they did not practice Christianity - they had their own practices and beliefs - things the paternalistic and supremacist white folks deemed to be "heathen", "child-like" and "superstitious". Thus a variety of catechisms were formulated to turn my enslaved ancestors from their own beliefs into the enslaved followers of their master's god and religion. Many argued that Christianity existed in Africa. Yes, this is true - it did. Primarily in Ethiopia and Egypt, both places with Greek and Jewish contact; however, most Black people in America have little to no ancestry that traces back to these areas, especially during the Christian Era of these regions. Therefore, many people on Destee see Christianity as an item given to us from imperialists and supremacists - not as an indigenous development among our direct ancestors and bloodline. As such, it is a vestige of slavery, Black American slavery... a necklace of our oppression - physical, cultural and spiritual. So it is attacked by many Black folks here as an illegitmate practice imposed upon our people to weaken and further subjugate them to notions of their own inherent inferiority and the superiority of those who were not their direct ancestors or who do not look like them.

The late founding Oba of Oyotunji once commented and I'm paraphrasing, "Imagine an Indian sitting on the banks of the Amazon River, one the world's wonders, and being told by white missionaries that the holy river is not the Amazon River where this Indian is sitting and whom his ancestors from ages knew but instead the River Jordan because it is associated with God's son Jesus Christ the Lord." See the imperialism in that - its seeks to steal away his birthright as being less significant.

Again, we can argue about Blacks in the Bible till the cows come home and other such things, but can we show that our own individual ancestors knew or even cared about such before they arrived to these shores.... without European intervention.

If not, then do we know better then those people?

In a nutshell, ultimately, this is the main crux of the debate. Don't give me that ole time religion because its not good enough for me.

Tuhwi

Aadendum: According the Christian Church in Ethiopia, the person credited with establishing Christianity in Ethiopia was Saint Frumentius:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Frumentius

Here's what black people should do, tear out the page with the ten commandments, and have it laminated and hang it on your wall or better yet, carry it your wallet to reference to whenever you make a decision. The rest of the worship a jew book you can use to wipe your behind with or burn. It's Amun-Ra, not Amen. Research it.

That's my "BIG" opinion.

Is Amun-Ra the ruling power now!?

The Jew you say we worship suffered 'a black man's persecution' in a white supremacist government byway of ignorant blacks who shouted for Roman Rule.

It really doesn't matter whether its Amun-Ra or Jesus if it is 'a black man being put through a death sentence--a capitol punishment' of which even the law doesn't warrant. If you are a black man, how can you be so disrespectful and so ignorant of the truth. Your opinion might help you to get the same treatment in this government of which has the potential to do the very same crime against black men today as well as in the past. Wipe your *** on that!

Woosah, Sister Chevron, WOO-SAH! :lol:

Here's what black people should do, tear out the page with the ten commandments, and have it laminated and hang it on your wall or better yet, carry it your wallet to reference to whenever you make a decision. The rest of the worship a jew book you can use to wipe your behind with or burn. It's Amun-Ra, not Amen. Research it.

That's my "BIG" opinion.

Brother Bigtown ... this is disrespectful and a perfect example of what will not be allowed anymore.

If you want to use the Bible, Qur'an, Torah, or any of the religious / spiritual texts, to wipe your behind, then just do that. We don't need to know it.

If you cannot raise your dialogue to an acceptable level of respectability, you will not be able to remain a Member here.

This is a warning.

Love You!

:heart:

Destee

Is Christianity being attacked in this forum?

Hmm... I really thought about this hard and I would say, to a degree, yes.

Have I personally been one of its attackers?

Again I would say yes.

Has it been fairly attacked or have I fairly attacked Christianity?

Not always. I have thrown a mighty few low blows....

I will state actually I've waged a few "jihads" against Christianity.

I will continue with my self-purging and my overall analysis as time permits.

Tuhwi

Continue....

Do I hate Christians or Christianity?

Not so much that. What I do hate is what Christianity has been used for throughout the world? That is as a vehicle for white supremacy. It is due to white supremacy that many people in the world know of Jesus and Christianity. That is mainly the issue at hand. Part of the Christian doctrine is testify and speak about Christianity to the world... That I see as being cultural hegemony, under the pretense of "religion", or if you will cultural terrorism - where initially religion was tied to a particular peoples worldview and its promise was offering a way for a culture to organize and make of the world it existed in. Thus to attempt to initiate religious conversion or send out missionaries is a covert form of cultural overthrow.

Christianity has a history of being such an aggressor on the world's stage that, whether they are wrong or right, the attacks against it are, in part, just retribution. The attacks are partly a reaction against an action. When my ancestors came to these shores, they did not practice Christianity - they had their own practices and beliefs - things the paternalistic and supremacist white folks deemed to be "heathen", "child-like" and "superstitious". Thus a variety of catechisms were formulated to turn my enslaved ancestors from their own beliefs into the enslaved followers of their master's god and religion. Many argued that Christianity existed in Africa. Yes, this is true - it did. Primarily in Ethiopia and Egypt, both places with Greek and Jewish contact; however, most Black people in America have little to no ancestry that traces back to these areas, especially during the Christian Era of these regions. Therefore, many people on Destee see Christianity as an item given to us from imperialists and supremacists - not as an indigenous development among our direct ancestors and bloodline. As such, it is a vestige of slavery, Black American slavery... a necklace of our oppression - physical, cultural and spiritual. So it is attacked by many Black folks here as an illegitmate practice imposed upon our people to weaken and further subjugate them to notions of their own inherent inferiority and the superiority of those who were not their direct ancestors or who do not look like them.

The late founding Oba of Oyotunji once commented and I'm paraphrasing, "Imagine an Indian sitting on the banks of the Amazon River, one the world's wonders, and being told by white missionaries that the holy river is not the Amazon River where this Indian is sitting and whom his ancestors from ages knew but instead the River Jordan because it is associated with God's son Jesus Christ the Lord." See the imperialism in that - its seeks to steal away his birthright as being less significant.

Again, we can argue about Blacks in the Bible till the cows come home and other such things, but can we show that our own individual ancestors knew or even cared about such before they arrived to these shores.... without European intervention.

If not, then do we know better then those people?

In a nutshell, ultimately, this is the main crux of the debate. Don't give me that ole time religion because its not good enough for me.

Tuhwi

Aadendum: According the Christian Church in Ethiopia, the person credited with establishing Christianity in Ethiopia was Saint Frumentius:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Frumentius
Wowzers! If one of the Christian brothers or sisters come with a rebuttal to this, I'd say we're well on our way to establishing non-emotional, civilized, intellectual fervor.

Brother Bigtown ... this is disrespectful and a perfect example of what will not be allowed anymore.

If you want to use the Bible, Qur'an, Torah, or any of the religious / spiritual texts, to wipe your behind, then just do that. We don't need to know it.

If you cannot raise your dialogue to an acceptable level of respectability, you will not be able to remain a Member here.

This is a warning.

Love You!

:heart:

Destee

I really do appreciate your intercession. Thank you so much.

Wowzers! If one of the Christian brothers or sisters come with a rebuttal to this, I'd say we're well on our way to establishing non-emotional, civilized, intellectual fervor.


Seed,

Its not really a matter of rebuttal or debate, but moreso fulfilling the latter portion of Blackbirds's statement, as highlighted:

Therefore, many people on Destee see Christianity as an item given to us from imperialists and supremacists - not as an indigenous development among our direct ancestors and bloodline.

So, the issue should be to painstakingly decipher the indigenous development of our ancestors and bloodline, contained in Holy Scripture, which is to say the Bible, in my opinion.

Seed,

Its not really a matter of rebuttal or debate, but moreso fulfilling the latter portion of Blackbirds's statement, as highlighted:

Therefore, many people on Destee see Christianity as an item given to us from imperialists and supremacists - not as an indigenous development among our direct ancestors and bloodline.

So, the issue should be to painstakingly decipher the indigenous development of our ancestors and bloodline, contained in Holy Scripture, which is to say the Bible, in my opinion.





Bro. Clyde,

Agreed. Can that be done? Can we actually chart the development of the various groups in Africa according to the Holy Scripture? This would be a miraculous feat.

Tuhwi

I think there is room for all degrees of thought and philosophy when it comes to religion. Love is at the heart of it all and really when you think of it, What Religion is God? I know of no religion that the Divine she/he/all has claimed. :-)

Bro. Clyde,

Agreed. Can that be done? Can we actually chart the development of the various groups in Africa according to the Holy Scripture? This would be a miraculous feat.

Tuhwi




Blackbird,

Yes we can Blackbird, in fact, I depend a lot upon you Blackbird. For example, in another thread you have cited the Lemba people, this is of paramount importance in a biblical nexus. I find the problem to be our failure to chart this information, which would create a new and fresh paradigm...Typically, we set up camp and shoot arrows rather than document our findings and move on with truth...Peace In my brother friend.

Blackbird,

As promised, here is the link:

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=555506&postcount=8

Blackbird,

Yes we can Blackbird, in fact, I depend a lot upon you Blackbird. For example, in another thread you have cited the Lemba people, this is of paramount importance in a biblical nexus. I find the problem to be our failure to chart this information, which would create a new and fresh paradigm...Typically, we set up camp and shoot arrows rather than document our findings and move on with truth...Peace In my brother friend.




You didn't support your point Clyde.

Tuhwi

Blackbird,

As promised, here is the link:

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=555506&postcount=8



Thanks again for this post. It's been a long time. Glad you jogged my memory. I like when I'm being a theorist and trying to connect dots, sometimes overreaching in my attempts.

Tuhwi

I don’t normally talk religion, especially online.
But it keeps coming up on this forum.
I feel that talking about religion is alot like talking about what you do with your spouse in bed.

I see it as an off limits issue.
If one believe in a god that’s great.
If one does not believes in any gods that’s great too.

I do know that, that is not the subject here.

I will usually not say or complain about Christianity.
I don’t have any problems in people believing in “Jesus Love”.

Now with that said, It is hard to stand there and be preach by some one who is intolerant of other ways of looking at things/life.

I grew up in a Santaria family (Yoruba). And so we have always kept our believes to ourselves.
Our house, believes to each is free to fallow their heart. My people do come from South-Central Africa,
And there is religious freedom. No one way, is king.

So if I have said any thing to denigrate any one’s religious believes, please forgive me!

May the great goddess care for us all.

AXE!

Is Amun-Ra the ruling power now!?

The Jew you say we worship suffered 'a black man's persecution' in a white supremacist government byway of ignorant blacks who shouted for Roman Rule.

It really doesn't matter whether its Amun-Ra or Jesus if it is 'a black man being put through a death sentence--a capitol punishment' of which even the law doesn't warrant. If you are a black man, how can you be so disrespectful and so ignorant of the truth. Your opinion might help you to get the same treatment in this government of which has the potential to do the very same crime against black men today as well as in the past. Wipe your *** on that!

Did you know that not one scholar that lived during the time that the idol that you worship supposedly lived, (Jesus) never even wrote about him. He didn't even exist according to anything they've written, wipe your *** on that. And black men suffered Jesus like persecution huh? That's priceless. Are we the "chosen" people now? Have black people replaced the jews? It's a joke and you're the punch line.

Did you know that not one scholar that lived during the time that the idol that you worship supposedly lived, (Jesus) never even wrote about him. He didn't even exist according to anything they've written, wipe your *** on that. And black men suffered Jesus like persecution huh? That's priceless. Are we the "chosen" people now? Have black people replaced the jews? It's a joke and you're the punch line.

Brother Bigtown ... did you see my previous post to you? If not, here (http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=601779&postcount=206) it is.

You were warned there, and you are being warned again now. The dialogue you're presenting does not meet the high standards (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59361) we seek to exemplify.

Your Membership will be suspended for 2 weeks (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31792), if you choose to continue in this vein.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

There is nothing in Black spirituality that attacks, denegrates or ridicules the faith or religion of another, so why are folks coming here with negativity, as though they have no concern

for Black spirituality

or as though they have a problem with the term spirituality?

I dont get it

I thought this was a Black Spirituality Post

There is nothing in Black spirituality that attacks, denegrates or ridicules the faith or religion of another, so why are folks coming here with negativity, as though they have no concern

for Black spirituality

or as though they have a problem with the term spirituality?

I dont get it

This forum is titled "Black Spirituality Religion." It encompasses all things spiritual and all things religious as well as non-believers....(unlike the "Study" sub-forums which separate each belief system).

Black Spirituality Religion>>> Know "the" way or seeking it? Spiritual but not religious? Raised in one faith but practicing another? Don't believe at all? Share your views.

Destee started this thread 8 years ago asking if Christianity was being attacked in this particular forum. (This thread preceded the creation of the "Study" sub-forums.)

However, because of past and recent events, Destee has determined that Christianity/Christians, indeed, have been attacked and that there has been a history of it. But she is now determined to correct that. As a part of her "Core Foundational Pieces," she is resolved to ensure/enforce that everyone (Christian, Muslim, Atheist, ATR, homosexual, heterosexual, etc..) is welcomed here and has a voice here as long as they respect the rules of the House.

So, this thread nor this forum is only about "spirituality."

It's about persecution of one belief system and its adherents.

But, Destee has said that's about to change.

Did you know that not one scholar that lived during the time that the idol that you worship supposedly lived, (Jesus) never even wrote about him. He didn't even exist according to anything they've written, wipe your *** on that. And black men suffered Jesus like persecution huh? That's priceless. Are we the "chosen" people now? Have black people replaced the jews? It's a joke and you're the punch line.


You are a bold mocking spirit. You come on a thread that was started by Sister Destee of this nature and think you can disrespect Black people and Black issues...

It doesn't matter what you think, if I, as a Black person, research and refer to Jesus as being 'a Black-Hamitic-typed man' and you come on and insult this kind of effort then you are already a loser anyway.

But I am thankful that Sister Destee has already addressed your evil report.

You are a bold mocking spirit. You come on a thread that was started by Sister Destee of this nature and think you can disrespect Black people and Black issues...

It doesn't matter what you think, if I, as a Black person, research and refer to Jesus as being 'a Black-Hamitic-typed man' and you come on and insult this kind of effort then you are already a loser anyway.

But I am thankful that Sister Destee has already addressed your evil report.


Priceless, just priceless.

That's my "BIG" opinion!

Priceless, just priceless.

That's my "BIG" opinion!

This is a serious set of questions. I understand you have an aversion to Christianity and that it is your "BIG" "OPINION". I get that. My question is, what does it do for you or for us when you spend YOUR time railing against what OTHER people believe or choose not to believe? What does it matter to you? Is there a logical extention to your aversion? Lets say you effectively convince all brothers and sisters to abandon Christianity, what next? Does this abandonment of Christianitiy produce any tangible benefits concerning the uplifting of our collective community? Is doing so going to do anything positive towards the tangible problems we face in our community? Is doing so going to reduce fatherless homes, killing of our young men in the street, helping to improve the economic status in the community? What is your angle? What is your motive?

That is my "BIG" question.

As I indicated, this is a serious set of questions to which I look forward to your serious set of answers. I am not looking for a fight, but a truthful indication of your motive and how that motive supports the hope of our community.

You didn't support your point Clyde.

Tuhwi


Excuse me!

Thanks again for this post. It's been a long time. Glad you jogged my memory. I like when I'm being a theorist and trying to connect dots, sometimes overreaching in my attempts.

Tuhwi


Peace In Blackbird.