Do new members have to prove themselves in order to be able to be viewed without suspicion by the management here?

If a variety of threads are allowed and a person responds respectfully, even if that opinion is different along with their lifestyle (in some cases), then is that enough to be treated like other members?

The reason I ask this is because there is a new member onboard, Mayn, who I know because she communicated with me through email in response to a post long ago. She has ideas for activism that she would like to share, but because she wants it to be a real life venture where she will have to meet people face-to-face, she is unsure how people will respond to her situation, (being in an IR). This is based on her readings of some of the opinions of the board here, (she has read a lot of the posts but didn't post until now). She has also shared her ideas with Isaiah via email.

I had suggested she give her situation in the Beethoven thread because when I disclosed my relationship it was also on a thread relating to a discussion topic.... I didn't feel anything adverse when I did it at the time, which is why I thought she would be received similarly.

If my advice was wrong and there is a more appropriate way for members such as herself to share, please let me know.

Do new members have to prove themselves in order to be able to be viewed without suspicion by the management here?

If a variety of threads are allowed and a person responds respectfully, even if that opinion is different along with their lifestyle (in some cases), then is that enough to be treated like other members?

The reason I ask this is because there is a new member onboard, Mayn, who I know because she communicated with me through email in response to a post long ago. She has ideas for activism that she would like to share, but because she wants it to be a real life venture where she will have to meet people face-to-face, she is unsure how people will respond to her situation, (being in an IR). This is based on her readings of some of the opinions of the board here, (she has read a lot of the posts but didn't post until now). She has also shared her ideas with Isaiah via email.

I had suggested she give her situation in the Beethoven thread because when I disclosed my relationship it was also on a thread relating to a discussion topic.... I didn't feel anything adverse when I did it at the time, which is why I thought she would be received similarly.

If my advice was wrong and there is a more appropriate way for members such as herself to share, please let me know.

I hate to burst your bubble Karma. But a new member who comes to a black forum (dedicated to teaching, loving, and building with other blacks), and says "Hi I'm in an IR" in their very first post is going to be questioned. If you invited this person, then surely you'd already know that. Now if Mayn has ideas for activism, certainly the Beethoven thread isn't the place for them. Why was that thread her 1st interest? Furthermore why did you feel obligated to direct her there? What you consider intimidation are legitimate questions. You and everyone who has been a longtime member of this website are well aware that Destee.com doesn't promote IR. Yet you seem to be determined to promote it (and now are apparently recruiting others to help you). Clearly that agenda is more important to you than so called "pro black" activism.

I hate to burst your bubble Karma. But a new member who comes to a black forum (dedicated to teaching, loving, and building with other blacks), and says "Hi I'm in an IR" in their very first post is going to be questioned. If you invited this person, then surely you'd already know that. Now if Mayn has ideas for activism, certainly the Beethoven thread isn't the place for them. Why was that thread her 1st interest? Furthermore why did feel obligated to direct her there? What you consider intimidation are legitimate questions. You and everyone who has been a longtime member of this website are well aware that Destee.com doesn't promote IR. Yet you seem to be determined to promote it (and now are apparently recruiting others to help you). Clearly that agenda is more important to you than so called "pro black" activism.

I could argue other people's agendas are to force their opinions down people's throats.

Regardless, like I said when I was a new member I disclosed my relationship on a thread like the Beethoven one. Nobody gave me a bad reception, and I had very few posts at the time. I thought considering her situation, this was the best way to go.

You look through people through generalizations, so you're always going to think I have an 'agenda'. No matter WHAT I say, you judge me through your own lenses. At this point, I don't care, particularly when I was looking for DESTEE's opinion, since she's the owner of the site. I am ONLY concerned if SHE thinks otherwise, and if she does she can do what she feels is appropriate.

Destee told me if you have a concern about management to go to the management thread, and that's what I did.

Do new members have to prove themselves in order to be able to be viewed without suspicion by the management here?

Sister Karmashines ... the only suspicion that a Member, old or new, should be concerned about from Management, is if they are breaking our rules or on the verge of doing so.

It appears that you're under the impression that the "Management" of this community has an agenda other than ... We Are About Loving, Encouraging, Embracing, Teaching and Building With Our People. No Hate Allowed. ... but that is not true.

Moderators are Members too. Matter of fact, they were Members first, sharing their opinion in the community like everyone else. When one becomes a Moderator, they don't stop being a Member. They are still allowed to share their opinion. That opinion of theirs, means no more than anyone else's here, as it relates to the discussions. Even my opinion doesn't mean any more than anyone else's. We are all entitled to our opinions, including Moderators.

You keep bringing this up, as though you're feeling threatened that you or others, aren't free to share your thoughts. You most certainly are, as long as it's done respectfully and such ... which you always do.

Quit letting these folk shake you Sister. Everyone is not going to embrace you, whether here or anywhere in the world, no matter what you do. I asked my Elderly Great Aunt Jo did she love me, and she said ... "You think sum bodee gonna love you jes' 'cause you was sh*t out into this world?!" ... while it hurt me to hear that from my Aunt, it was the truth! Likewise, you're not going to embrace every Member and every opinion they share. It's okay, that's allowed.

Really Sister ... don't let someone's challenge to your posts bother you. If you find yourself feeling any kinda way negative, uncomfortable, uneasy, etc., regarding the feedback you get here, maybe you might wanna step back a little. Put some distance between you and the discussions if necessary, at least the ones that affect you this way.

There are some discussions that i am reluctant to take part in, because i know how sensitive and passionate i am regarding those topics. I know how easy it will be for someone to hurt my feelings. There's been quite a few times that i've composed a response, and then wiped it out, because i knew i would not be able to handle the diverse (and what i might consider negative) opinions that were sure to come. Choose your battles wisely. You're on a discussion forum where folk talk about everything that's presented, even picking it apart if they want.

You're a positive Sister, and it's a pleasure having you with us.


If a variety of threads are allowed and a person responds respectfully, even if that opinion is different along with their lifestyle (in some cases), then is that enough to be treated like other members?

Again Sister ... every Member is given the opportunity to register, post, share, etc. No one is denied that. Are you suggesting that someone has been denied that?

Your question is kinda vague and ify, but yes, every Member is treated like all other Members when it comes to the Management of this community. We don't have special rules for different Members, depending on their opnion. Please if you can, separate the Management of this community, from the Moderator's personal opinions in the discussions, as they are not one and the same.

I don't even agree with everything that all Moderators say in the discussions, but that has no reflection on their ability to fairly moderate this community.


The reason I ask this is because there is a new member onboard, Mayn, who I know because she communicated with me through email in response to a post long ago. She has ideas for activism that she would like to share, but because she wants it to be a real life venture where she will have to meet people face-to-face, she is unsure how people will respond to her situation, (being in an IR). This is based on her readings of some of the opinions of the board here, (she has read a lot of the posts but didn't post until now). She has also shared her ideas with Isaiah via email.

I had suggested she give her situation in the Beethoven thread because when I disclosed my relationship it was also on a thread relating to a discussion topic.... I didn't feel anything adverse when I did it at the time, which is why I thought she would be received similarly.

If my advice was wrong and there is a more appropriate way for members such as herself to share, please let me know.

Sister Karmashines ... if our new Member Mayn wants to share their ideas, hopes, and dreams for our people ... she is as welcome to do that as anyone else. We encourage all Members to share, to post, to take part in the discussions. I'm not psychic. I can't tell how every single Member will respond to what's presented here, but i do know that they will be respectful, as that is required.

I don't see anything wrong with your advice.

I hope i've answered your questions, but if i haven't, come on back! :)

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

Thank you for your kind response, Destee.

I understand that moderators are human and give their opinions... but sometimes they are given in a way that one might feel go beyond the realm of debate. The issue upsets me because I don't feel it's resolved... and it's not a matter of a different opinion. There have been many adverse opinions shared that didn't offend me because I didn't perceive them to be directed at me. But when someone says blatently, you have an agenda, or let us that want to build with blacks, or questions why you have posted on one thread over another, (implying you must be doing something against the site), it is VERY difficult to keep composure, particularly when it's management. I don't think I should have to account for what and how I post when in my 2,000+ comments I feel I have followed the rules, including adhering to the logo. And this type of thing only seems to happen when I disagree and ardently argue my points in a manner no different than any other member.

I honestly can't see if someone is making a comment that they know others are going to adamently disagree with, especially if it's posed as a generalization, why it's so unreasonable to think people aren't going to argue with examples going against that generalization. I've had people do that with me when I talk about Christianity, which now I am more sensitive to. I'm more likely to say "some" or "my experience," because I don't want to purposefully offend a demographic represented on the board. I don't agree with it, but I don't penalize or hate them for choices that have worked for them in their lives.

To my knowledge, I cannot block a moderator's comments... if it was regular member that debated in a way that I felt was going too far, I could use the ignore function.

Thank you for your kind response, Destee.

You're very welcome Sister! :love:


I understand that moderators are human and give their opinions... but sometimes they are given in a way that one might feel go beyond the realm of debate. The issue upsets me because I don't feel it's resolved... and it's not a matter of a different opinion. There have been many adverse opinions shared that didn't offend me because I didn't perceive them to be directed at me. But when someone says blatently, you have an agenda, or let us that want to build with blacks, or questions why you have posted on one thread over another, (implying you must be doing something against the site), it is VERY difficult to keep composure, particularly when it's management. I don't think I should have to account for what and how I post when in my 2,000+ comments I feel I have followed the rules, including adhering to the logo. And this type of thing only seems to happen when I disagree and ardently argue my points in a manner no different than any other member.

I honestly can't see if someone is making a comment that they know others are going to adamently disagree with, especially if it's posed as a generalization, why it's so unreasonable to think people are going to argue with examples going against that generalization. I've had people do that with me when I talk about Christianity, which now I am more sensitive to.

To my knowledge, I cannot block a moderator's comments... if it was regular member that debated in a way that I felt was going too far, I could use the ignore function.

Sister Karmashines ... how does an opinion on a discussion forum, go beyond the realm of debate? Where is the realm of debate? How do you determine one's gone beyond it? If you and they are sharing your opinions, and no one is breaking a rule, how does the line get crossed? I'm kinda stumped on this one. And then when it is crossed, is that a violation? Should we add a new rule to our few rules, going beyond the realm of debate, is now not allowed? Are you saying that Moderators should be limited, as it relates to their opinions in these discussions?

I guess i'm asking all these questions because i don't have any hard evidence to look at. You say they've said things to you, that you feel go beyond the realm of debate. Would you mind sharing some specific examples, links, to those comments by Moderators, so i can more properly address your concern?

That's true, Members can't block Moderators. It's never come up before, but under the circumstances, i may have to make an adjustment or two. We'll continue to try and resolve this here, before considering this change.

Looking forward to your response.

:heart:

Destee

To Destee:

I also wanted to add that having heard the ideas from the member in question, I want her to feel assured she can share, especially considering what I have just told you above how I have felt.

That particular member has told me she wants to test the waters of the board for a little while, then when she feels is appropriate share her activist ideas and contribute financially to the site; not really a pattern any different from others who have joined.

You're very welcome Sister! :love:




Sister Karmashines ... how does an opinion on a discussion forum, go beyond the realm of debate? Where is the realm of debate? How do you determine one's gone beyond it? If you and they are sharing your opinions, and no one is breaking a rule, how does the line get crossed? I'm kinda stumped on this one. And then when it is crossed, is that a violation? Should we add a new rule to our few rules, going beyond the realm of debate, is now not allowed? Are you saying that Moderators should be limited, as it relates to their opinions in these discussions?

I guess i'm asking all these questions because i don't have any hard evidence to look at. You say they've said things to you, that you feel go beyond the realm of debate. Would you mind sharing some specific examples, links, to those comments by Moderators, so i can more properly address your concern?

That's true, Members can't block Moderators. It's never come up before, but under the circumstances, i may have to make an adjustment or two. We'll continue to try and resolve this here, before considering this change.

Looking forward to your response.

:heart:

Destee

Well, the comments that made me feel that way were a while back, but the most recent is this one:

You and everyone who has been a longtime member of this website are well aware that Destee.com doesn't promote IR. Yet you seem to be determined to promote it (and now are apparently recruiting others to help you). Clearly that agenda is more important to you than so called "pro black" activism.

This was said right in this very thread... these are generalizations against my character that do not match what I think nor feel. It is highly antagonistic even if it doesn't say directly, "You're a self-hater who doesn't belong here." Why do I have to fight against assumptions directed at me personally?

I don't consider responding to a thread about IR and inviting someone who is an IR promoting it. She's read the posts and knows it's black, but on the same token it's been stated that people such as herself and myself are allowed. I don't think it's unreasonable that we will give our opinions on it when it's warranted.

It would be one thing if I talked about that in every single post... I don't. I only talk about it in the appropriate thread, or when someone makes a generalization about a demographic that affects me, or I am encountered with a comment like this. If it weren't for the IR threads, including the Pro-black & IR thread, nobody would know my situation because I don't make it the center of my life.

To Destee:

I also wanted to add that having heard the ideas from the member in question, I want her to feel assured she can share, especially considering what I have just told you above how I have felt.

That particular member has told me she wants to test the waters of the board for a little while, then when she feels is appropriate share her activist ideas and contribute financially to the site; not really a pattern any different from others who have joined.

Right Sister ... this is no different than any other Member who has joined us, for the most part.

Advance permission is not needed to do any of the above.

:heart:

Destee

this ain't about "piling on", but about a complete agreement with where this particular finger is being pointed!! additionally, this legitimate "comment" about a member of the moderation team has not been addressed in the same timely fashion as the rest of the thread. unfortunately, one might almost feel that there could possibly exist a pattern of this. (i'd really just as soon not come straight out with "accusations", (or however one wants to say it), because i have always felt that if one can't say something nice, don't say anything - so i usually don't. but when it gets as blatant as this, as it usually does, well; why not. particularly when things like this are what has caused the [oh, i do so hope/wish it is!!] temporary cessation of my financial support.)

and, no; i will not go find specific threads/posts where this behavior has occurred given that, as mentioned, here is one right here. and they are always exactly like this, delivered in exactly the same tone, with exactly the same underlying "sneer". sure, the words, in and of themselves, seem to be kinda-sorta-mostly ok, but they always seem to come across really badly. as to why i haven't said anything previously? refer back to my "timeliness" comment above, please.

next time it is asked where i've been, think about these points, please.

my apologies, karmashines, if my comments muddy the waters any!


Well, the comments that made me feel that way were a while back, but the most recent is this one:


Originally Posted by panafrica
You and everyone who has been a longtime member of this website are well aware that Destee.com doesn't promote IR. Yet you seem to be determined to promote it (and now are apparently recruiting others to help you). Clearly that agenda is more important to you than so called "pro black" activism.

This was said right in this very thread... these are generalizations against my character that do not match what I think nor feel. It is highly antagonistic even if it doesn't say directly, "You're a self-hater who doesn't belong here." Why do I have to fight against assumptions directed at me personally?

Well, the comments that made me feel that way were a while back, but the most recent is this one:

Sister Karmashines ... from now on, as soon as you see something that you believe is a violation, by anyone ... Member, Moderator, or Administrator ... post a thread down here about it. That's the best thing. Don't let a lot of time go by, where you hold the hurt or anger in allowing it to simmer, and everyone else almost forgets the discussion took place. Let's nip it in the bud when it presents itself, okay?


This was said right in this very thread... these are generalizations against my character that do not match what I think nor feel. It is highly antagonistic even if it doesn't say directly, "You're a self-hater who doesn't belong here." Why do I have to fight against assumptions directed at me personally?

I don't consider responding to a thread about IR and inviting someone who is an IR promoting it. She's read the posts and knows it's black, but on the same token it's been stated that people such as herself and myself are allowed. I don't think it's unreasonable that we will give our opinions on it when it's warranted.

It would be one thing if I talked about that in every single post... I don't. I only talk about it in the appropriate thread, or when someone makes a generalization about a demographic that affects me, or I am encountered with a comment like this. If it weren't for the IR threads, including the Pro-black & IR thread, nobody would know my situation because I don't make it the center of my life.

Okay Sister Karmashines ... i'm going to try and disect what you've quoted from Brother Pan's remarks. I'll take it line by line, okay?


You and everyone who has been a longtime member of this website are well aware that Destee.com doesn't promote IR.

Sister Karmashines ... what Pan said is true, we don't promote IR relationships. We Are About Loving, Encouraging, Embracing, Teaching and Building With Our People. No Hate Allowed. This does not mean it can't be discussed here, as there are many threads speaking on exactly that. This does not mean those involved in IR are not welcome here, as all are welcome. This community is for, by, and about Black People. It is not about Black People getting with other people, or other people getting with us. There are sites that cater specifically to IR, and we are not one of them. While we allow the above, there are limits. There have been times when folk have come here, aggressively promoting IR. Thread titles like ... Black Women Should Get a White Man ... or ... I Love Black Men and I'm White ... or some such foolishness as that. Those Members have ultimately been banned (and i'm sure those threads were deleted). We don't promote it Sister. I hope you don't find this too shocking. I don't really see anything wrong in the sentence Pan stated above.


Yet you seem to be determined to promote it (and now are apparently recruiting others to help you).

Sister Karmashines ... the above is just Pan's opinion of what he thinks you're doing. He could be as wrong as 2 left shoes, and if so, you have the opportunity to tell him that. Again, i don't see anything wrong with the comment above, whether it were coming from a Member or a Moderator. Each would be free to say that, without getting a warning for breaking our rules, being disruptive, etc.


Clearly that agenda is more important to you than so called "pro black" activism.

Again, just his opinion. He didn't call you out of your name, or say anything about your personal being. He's speaking on the topic, staying within the rules.

Sister Karmashines ... may i be honest with you for a moment, go a little deeper? Thanks. :)

What i believe is happening, and has happened before with others, is that folk come here saying they are in an IR, are biracial, are homosexual, are republican, are devil worshippers, are Christians, are Muslims ... what have you ... and they are immediately and probably forever colored by those personal disclosures. They open themselves up to this being a part of the discussion, folk asking them about it, judging their comments and behavior based on this, because they put the information on the table.

No one would ever know, if they didn't tell it.

I have seen Brothers who have come here and admit they were with white women in the past, and how much they enjoyed it. When someone calls them out on it, or speaks to this fact they shared, they get all offended. They've shown their own hand, and for them, the discussion takes on a personal tone. It's not easy for them to be objective, because they are deep in it.

Now, there are also those who have put personal info on the table, and have no problem defending it, not taking any comments personal, and responding word for word and blow for blow. It seems these folk are much more rooted in their life choices, happy with them, and nobody can move them from that.

Discussions regarding someone's personal self, are not allowed, unless the Member themselves open the door .. put their personal stuff in the discussion ... then it becomes fair game for others to comment on.

Knowing that we are a Black site, all about Black people ... mirroring the challenges that our offline communities possess ... knowing all of this they come in and say ... i'm white ... i'm homosexual ... i'm this, i'm that ... surely they must anticipate that there may be "something" they will face as a result of doing such. I can't believe that making such disclosures only elicit reactions at destee. We aren't that different than the rest of the world.

All of this to say Sister ... we sometimes bring things on ourselves, by being so forthcoming.

Everybody don't gotta know everything.

If i come here talking about i've had 13 abortions and i'm 28 and pregnant again, opinions are going to be formed, and questions are going to be asked. It's just the nature of this beast, and there's really no way for me to protect a Member from that, from their own self.

Sister Karmashines ... i'm aware that you and Brother Pan have always gone back and forth, not seen eye to eye, etc. He feels more strongly about some of the topics the two of you have shared in, than i do. He's entitled to that, as you are entitled to feel as you feel. This isn't to suggest that he's done anything wrong, but i'm sure he'd have no problem not responding to your specific posts, if that would make you feel more comfortable. Likewise, i'd ask you to do the same for him, and of course you've done nothing wrong either.

While this isn't the ideal resolution, as i'd love for the two of you to be able to continue to discuss, share, etc., as i (and i'm sure others) learn so much reading your exchanges ... but if that is not possible, we can do the above. You just let me know if that's what you'd like, okay?

If you have any additional questions or concerns, i'm right here.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

yup!

most masterful, destee!! just so elegant the way that you eased right on by her concerns!! and exactly as i expected!!!! and OF COURSE you are going to be somewhat "bemused" (there may be a better word) by my comments!!

i'm sorry, but i would have thought that someone elevated to "moderator" might, possibly, be willing to display a bit more compassion and/or tact?? no?? ... oh. too bad; so sad ... oh, but, right, there probably is no violation of any specific forum rules. after all; why should/would common decency/courtesy have a need to be specifically stated?

oh, if this site is the best that black america can come up with we are well and truly FRELLED!!!

Destee,

I still feel that it is not appropriate for a person to approach me with an assumption that I'm doing or not doing something, especially when I have not acted in the manner of the people you've talked about in your response to me. If I have acted that way, then why haven't you or other mods warned me? How can I be promoting something when I'm just giving my opinion? It's also not like there aren't others on the thread that don't share that opinion, some of whom aren't even in IR relationships... so why do I have to prove myself more than others?


I do feel that if you're in an IR you have to be more apologetic and overly objective than other types of members. I feel that you have to prove yourself more. I have argued against the members in your example, and posted extensively on issues that are 'pro-black,' yet I still seem to be viewed as something that I'm not because I argue passionately on another thread. Sometimes I feel that because of what I disclosed, (which I didn't know would be held against me when I first joined), I have to be as 'black' as possible, including being almost insulting to certain types of members.

Am I expected to say all IR people are a certain way, demeaning even myself? Why do I not have a right to defend against that assertion when I have tried to be open-minded to others?

As far as IR boards, yes I post there topics that I feel I can't talk about here. Yet, some of those topics come up anyway, with members giving a variety of respsonses. Those members' 'loyalties' aren't questioned, so I think that it must be okay to respond to those threads, which I do. I also feel more comfortable giving certain stances if other members also share them. For example, Samurai was talkling about things that mirror some of my feelings on POC unity, thus I talked about it. If he said nothing, I wouldn't have talked about it. If the IR boards weren't there, I wouldn't have given my response. Like any other member, I talk about what the thread is talking about... if any deviations were made it's because of the types of responses others have directed at me.

The only thing I could possibly see one having an issue is the reference I gave about homosexuality in Africa. Yes, it was from a site that talked about multiracial things, but it was not just IR, but a whole bunch of other things. Regardless, the site was not on display, neither were any of the stances there OTHER THAN what it was saying about gayness. If a bias is being held against me because of that, then I need to know up front what is acceptable for me, as a BW in IR to say or not say, because at the time I didn't think I was breaking any rules or doing anything else to arouse suspicion, (especially since I used the article before in another argument in which nobody said anything). Otherwise, I'm always going to be wondering when I post a thread if it's going to be held against me in some way in another discussion... this is one of the reasons I don't post threads much anymore.

I can say, yes, okay... I'll just accept it when a mod assumes my thoughts... even if he does it when I didn't even respond to his post(s), along with making other efforts to avoid debating with him directly. But I am human. If someone is going to make assumptions about me, it is only inevitable that I may make assumptions about him... but considering I'm not a mod and that person is, if I do it, I risk getting banned.

yup!

most masterful, destee!! just so elegant the way that you eased right on by her concerns!! and exactly as i expected!!!! and OF COURSE you are going to be somewhat "bemused" (there may be a better word) by my comments!!

Brother anAfrican ... i don't know if a thank you is in order, but i do like the use of the word masterful. Tell me Brother, how would you have responded to Sister Karmashines post? If you don't mind, present your answer, as i have already presented mine, and we can compare the two. I'd love to read a more proper way of responding to such a situation. Are you willing to do that?


i'm sorry, but i would have thought that someone elevated to "moderator" might, possibly, be willing to display a bit more compassion and/or tact?? no?? ... oh. too bad; so sad ... oh, but, right, there probably is no violation of any specific forum rules. after all; why should/would common decency/courtesy have a need to be specifically stated?

Your apology is accepted. It always amazes me how folk want to tell me what my expectations of the Moderators in this community should be. Simply amazing.


oh, if this site is the best that black america can come up with we are well and truly FRELLED!!!

While this site may not be the best that Black America can come up with, i'm sure you are ... and whatever frelled means ... i'd imagine we are frelled no more.

:heart:

Destee

Destee,

I still feel that it is not appropriate for a person to approach me with an assumption that I'm doing or not doing something, especially when I have not acted in the manner of the people you've talked about in your response to me. If I have acted that way, then why haven't you or other mods warned me? How can I be promoting something when I'm just giving my opinion? It's also not like there aren't others on the thread that don't share that opinion, some of whom aren't even in IR relationships... so why do I have to prove myself more than others?

I do feel that if you're in an IR you have to be more apologetic and overly objective than other types of members. I feel that you have to prove yourself more. I have argued against the members in your example, and posted extensively on issues that are 'pro-black,' yet I still seem to be viewed as something that I'm not because I argue passionately on another thread. Sometimes I feel that because of what I disclosed, (which I didn't know would be held against me when I first joined), I have to be as 'black' as possible, including being almost insulting to certain types of members.

Am I expected to say all IR people are a certain way, demeaning even myself? Why do I not have a right to defend against that assertion when I have tried to be open-minded to others?

As far as IR boards, yes I post there topics that I feel I can't talk about here. Yet, some of those topics come up anyway, with members giving a variety of respsonses. Those members' 'loyalties' aren't questioned, so I think that it must be okay to respond to those threads, which I do. I also feel more comfortable giving certain stances if other members also share them. For example, Samurai was talkling about things that mirror some of my feelings on POC unity, thus I talked about it. If he said nothing, I wouldn't have talked about it. If the IR boards weren't there, I wouldn't have given my response. Like any other member, I talk about what the thread is talking about... if any deviations were made it's because of the types of responses others have directed at me.

I can say, yes, okay... I'll just accept it when a mod assumes my thoughts... even if he does it when I didn't even respond to his post(s), along with making other efforts to avoid debating with him directly. But I am human. If someone is going to make assumptions about me, it is only inevitable that I may make assumptions about him... but considering I'm not a mod and that person is, if I do it, I risk getting banned.


Karma,

I'm a little curious....I wasn't going to post here but wanted for myself (as a new mod) to understand your concerns. What ideally should be the approach? If people, outside of breaking community rules, do make generalizations, is that not part of their debate...their argument? Generalizations typically mean the overwhelming majority...not NECESSARILY all. Even in cases where it is intended to mean ALL, how is this breaking a rule? How are you proposing this matter should proceed WITHOUT taking away someone else's right to voice an opinion....even if it opposes yours? After all, even you have said on a number of occasions that we don't all need to agree...right?

Karma,

I'm a little curious....I wasn't going to post here but wanted for myself (as a new mod) to understand your concerns. What ideally should be the approach? If people, outside of breaking community rules, do make generalizations, is that not part of their debate...their argument? Generalizations typically mean the overwhelming majority...not NECESSARILY all. Even in cases where it is intended to mean ALL, how is this breaking a rule? How are you proposing this matter should proceed WITHOUT taking away someone else's right to voice an opinion....even if it opposes yours? After all, even you have said on a number of occasions that we don't all need to agree...right?

Hmm... thanks for asking that.

See, me personally, I don't like generalizing, especially when those groups are a part of the site. I am even more aware of the importance of this considering how some view my situation. This is not to say I've been perfect.

Regardless, this is why when I post I usually say 'some', 'according to my experience', when referencing people. I don't care as much if the conversation is about racism, especially when (to my knowledge), there are not many non-blacks here. If I was debating directly with a non-black person, I would still say 'some'... or find some way to say what I need to say without being offensive. In fact, when I debate directly with a person period, I try to find a common ground and be somewhat considerate that their opinions are as passionate to them as mine are to me.

If I make a comment on what I believe are a certain groups' opinion, I say, "If one believes." I have my own thoughts on who or what is thinking that, thoughts which will remain in my own head. But on paper, it's less offensive.. if people feels it doesn't affect them they won't be personally offended.

Anyway, if people don't agree with that, then here's what I would say. If you speak in a way that is with conviction, expect the other side to debate against you. I anticipated some of my comments in the Beethoven thread would be debated against heavily because I spoke with conviction something many don't like. I don't anticipate for people to start assuming what I think because I give a strong opinion... I don't do that when I debate with people, why should they do that with me? If a variety of mindsets are allowed to be shared, then they should be shared equally... particularly those that are not even exclusive to one person in the thread.

Destee,

I still feel that it is not appropriate for a person to approach me with an assumption that I'm doing or not doing something, especially when I have not acted in the manner of the people you've talked about in your response to me. If I have acted that way, then why haven't you or other mods warned me? How can I be promoting something when I'm just giving my opinion? It's also not like there aren't others on the thread that don't share that opinion, some of whom aren't even in IR relationships... so why do I have to prove myself more than others?

I do feel that if you're in an IR you have to be more apologetic and overly objective than other types of members. I feel that you have to prove yourself more. I have argued against the members in your example, and posted extensively on issues that are 'pro-black,' yet I still seem to be viewed as something that I'm not because I argue passionately on another thread. Sometimes I feel that because of what I disclosed, (which I didn't know would be held against me when I first joined), I have to be as 'black' as possible, including being almost insulting to certain types of members.

Am I expected to say all IR people are a certain way, demeaning even myself? Why do I not have a right to defend against that assertion when I have tried to be open-minded to others?

As far as IR boards, yes I post there topics that I feel I can't talk about here. Yet, some of those topics come up anyway, with members giving a variety of respsonses. Those members' 'loyalties' aren't questioned, so I think that it must be okay to respond to those threads, which I do. I also feel more comfortable giving certain stances if other members also share them. For example, Samurai was talkling about things that mirror some of my feelings on POC unity, thus I talked about it. If he said nothing, I wouldn't have talked about it. If the IR boards weren't there, I wouldn't have given my response.

I can say, yes, okay... I'll just accept it when a mod assumes my thoughts... even if he does it when I didn't even respond to his post(s), along with making other efforts to avoid debating with him directly. But I am human. If someone is going to make assumptions about me, it is only inevitable that I may make assumptions about him... but considering I'm not a mod and that person is, if I do it, I risk getting banned.

Sister Karmashines ... we have thousands of Members, can you imagine if every single one FELT someone else was doing something to them, and expected me to resolve it for them? They feel it, but there are no violations, no name calling, no blood dripping, no stiches needed, no DNA, they just feel it.

Really Sister, as much as i wanna make you not feel something, that is totally up to you, what you feel. I have absolutely no control over that. If people are pushing your buttons, without ever violating a rule, then it is on you to deactivate those buttons. I can't do it for you.

If i tell Brother Pan that he can't say to you, anything that may make you feel some sort of way, then i will have to apply that same consideration to every single Member here, not just you. So now, whenever anyone feels something, we have to moderate that. No evidence of a violation, just a feeling.

That's way too much Sister. I can't promise you that. We don't have those type of resources. Our Moderators put in lots of time already, which they don't get paid for. We have hard enough time moderating the hard and fast rules.

Sister Karmashines ... i just don't know what else to say to you. I'd hate to think that we may lose you over this, but i just don't know how you expect me to manage your feelings and all things that may possibly affect your feelings negatively.

I'm going to call it a night, perhaps i will wake up in the morning, and the answer will be here.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

Sister Karmashines ... we have thousands of Members, can you imagine if every single one FELT someone else was doing something to them, and expected me to resolve it for them? They feel it, but there are no violations, no name calling, no blood dripping, no stiches needed, no DNA, they just feel it.

Really Sister, as much as i wanna make you not feel something, that is totally up to you, what you feel. I have absolutely no control over that. If people are pushing your buttons, without ever violating a rule, then it is on you to deactivate those buttons. I can't do it for you.

If i tell Brother Pan that he can't say to you, anything that may make you feel some sort of way, then i will have to apply that same consideration to every single Member here, not just you. So now, whenever anyone feels something, we have to moderate that. No evidence of a violation, just a feeling.

That's way too much Sister. I can't promise you that. We don't have those type of resources. Our Moderators put in lots of time already, which they don't get paid for. We have hard enough time moderating the hard and fast rules.

Sister Karmashines ... i just don't know what else to say to you. I'd hate to think that we may lose you over this, but i just don't know how you expect me to manage your feelings and all things that may possibly affect your feelings negatively.

I'm going to call it a night, perhaps i will wake up in the morning, and the answer will be here.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

Well, that's precisely the point... of those thousands of members, most don't get the extra scrutiny. Why should I receive the extra scrutiny? Is there anything I can do to not go through it, other than keep quiet, (which I don't think is fair)?

I am not saying one should say or not say whatever... I am saying that I should be viewed in the same light as other members. If other members aren't questioned in the manner that I am, then why do I have to undergo that? And where is the line drawn so I can also share my opinions?

And where is the line drawn between me defending myself against a person who clearly has a negative bias against me, versus going against the site?

And is it safe for me to assume, that from now on, I will just have to expect to be treated differently, even though other members who say the exact thing sometimes aren't?

Hmm... thanks for asking that.

See, me personally, I don't like generalizing, especially when those groups are a part of the site. I am even more aware of the importance of this considering how some view my situation. This is not to say I've been perfect.

Regardless, this is why when I post I usually say 'some', 'according to my experience', when referencing people. I don't care as much if the conversation is about racism, especially when (to my knowledge), there are not many non-blacks here. If I was debating directly with a non-black person, I would still say 'some'... or find some way to say what I need to say without being offensive. In fact, when I debate directly with a person period, I try to find a common ground and be somewhat considerate that their opinions are as passionate to them as mine are to me.

If I make a comment on what I believe are a certain groups' opinion, I say, "If one believes." I have my own thoughts on who or what is thinking that, thoughts which will remain in my own head. But on paper, it's less offensive.. if people feels it doesn't affect them they won't be personally offended.

Anyway, if people don't agree with that, then here's what I would say. If you speak in a way that is with conviction, expect the other side to debate against you. I anticipated some of my comments in the Beethoven thread would be debated against heavily because I spoke with conviction something many don't like. I don't anticipate for people to start assuming what I think because I give a strong opinion... I don't do that when I debate with people, why should they do that with me? If a variety of mindsets are allowed to be shared, then they should be shared equally... particularly those that are not even exclusive to one person in the thread.


I understand, but all the things you are concerned about have to do with the perspectives and ideas of other people....not with rules being violated. Your responses above seem very emotional. I'm almost certain you'll find the same experiences out in the world outside of Destee---folks putting forth ideas that you may feel are unfair. However, that won't stop them from believing a particular way. You have to keep putting your ideas forward as you see fit, but you can't do by depriving others of their right of expression....even when you don't agree with them. Noone is stopping you or your friend from expressing yourselves in a manner befitting the rules of the house...peace....

I understand, but all the things you are concerned about have to do with the perspectives and ideas of other people....not with rules being violated. Your responses above seem very emotional. I'm almost certain you'll find the same experiences out in the world outside of Destee---folks putting forth ideas that you may feel are unfair. However, that won't stop them from believing a particular way. You have to keep putting your ideas forward as you see fit, but you can't do by depriving others of their right to expression to....even when you don't agree with them. Noone is stopping you or your friend from expressing yourselves in a manner befitting the rules of the house...peace....

I have not had any problems outside the world of Destee.

I don't see how asking people to not make negative assumptions about my character is 'depriving them of their rights'. If they have the right to do that to me, then I have the right to say what I'm thinking, that their agenda (they're meaning whomever it applies to), is arrogant, condescending and a dictator-ish and their methods of judging black people through prejudice are no different than what racist whites do. Just because you feel it doesn't mean you should say it... Lord knows, I have quite often not said what I truly felt for fear of those types of responses.

I ask you this: if I don't make assumptions about your character when posting, what gives you the right to make assumptions about mine?

Lastly, I hope you are right... my friend and I will give our opinions, and if I see that we are being treated differently, will report it to the Management Forum each time. If we are questioned in a way others aren't, that question will be posed along with samples of other interactions to show that we have been treated differently. Polls will also be created, so my concerns won't be cast off as being 'emotional,' if others believe similarly.

Anyway, I'm getting tired. I have surmised from all of this, that it is possible what I complained about may happen again, because some don't seem to interpret it as being offensive. That's fine... it lets me know where I stand; so if it is possible I might get that type of response anyway, (one that I still feel is offensive), then there is no need for me to hold back my opinions as I have. I won't disrespect members, but I will post in the same manner as those who have posted against me, with conviction and not holding back.