Something occurred to me about three days ago. In all of this talk about Metu Neter, I have read the book but started skimming it again because I have drawn a blank on remembering where the author actually says it was practiced by Nubians “today”. Even in skimming the book I can’t find the words. What I do find is where the author says, “it was practiced by ancient Nubians”, not necessarily meaning it is practices and he gained his information from Nubians of today.

If someone remembers where the author actually reveals that the Metu Neter is practiced by Nubians of today in the desert somewhere, could you please give me the chapter and page number from vol 1 or 2?

I think we are misrepresenting again.

But I might be wrong.
:book:

Anyone find those passages yet?

medu neter simply means "words of the gods". nile valley high culture is practiced today, and cats still speak, read and write medu over in africa and some in the u.s. as well.

once again brother u are trying to find a reason not to link your self with our kemetic spirtual system. There are hundreds of tribes today throughtout africa today that currently study the lanquage and way of life of the neteru. YOU Have never addressed them the neteru and you probably will not ever. There were several Amun's (title) Amun-re(title).Names and personalities were often attributed to forces of the natural or neteru. Ra the first per son (per sound) through sound(vibrations) we were all created being born out of the primodal water (nun)after breaking free from the egg (the goose that laid the golden egg, also from which the concept of east ter or ish tar or Je zeus being born again and the plagrarization and usage of the egg. All of the aspects of the neteru are a part of you my brother our ancestors never seperated themselves from the creator They have love and respect for all of the attributes. neteru represented different manifestations of the creator. To be divine is to be one with nature which is according to cosmonogy every per sons responsibilty. YOU can not get over your concept of this ever living god which comes from the german Gut meaning lord or landlord. Stop putting your christianity belief system and meshing it with cosmonogoly if you are unable to do that u will forever be lost. Read with an open mind and heart and accept the love of your ancestors as they share there love for all of the attributes (physcial and spritual of the creator) . In the beginning there was the Amen(the hidden) the creation of god( the neteru) wadu hotep brother

Something occurred to me about three days ago. In all of this talk about Metu Neter, I have read the book but started skimming it again because I have drawn a blank on remembering where the author actually says it was practiced by Nubians “today”. Even in skimming the book I can’t find the words. What I do find is where the author says, “it was practiced by ancient Nubians”, not necessarily meaning it is practices and he gained his information from Nubians of today.

If someone remembers where the author actually reveals that the Metu Neter is practiced by Nubians of today in the desert somewhere, could you please give me the chapter and page number from vol 1 or 2?

I think we are misrepresenting again.

But I might be wrong.
:book:
rather than critiquing the metu neter you should do an affirmation of the book that you believe in.
as it is, with these challenges to other peoples beliefs you are disturbing the peace here.
no one is obligated to prove anything to you.

once again brother u are trying to find a reason not to link your self with our kemetic spirtual system. There are hundreds of tribes today throughtout africa today that currently study the lanquage and way of life of the neteru. YOU Have never addressed them the neteru and you probably will not ever. There were several Amun's (title) Amun-re(title).Names and personalities were often attributed to forces of the natural or neteru. Ra the first per son (per sound) through sound(vibrations) we were all created being born out of the primodal water (nun)after breaking free from the egg (the goose that laid the golden egg, also from which the concept of east ter or ish tar or Je zeus being born again and the plagrarization and usage of the egg. All of the aspects of the neteru are a part of you my brother our ancestors never seperated themselves from the creator They have love and respect for all of the attributes. neteru represented different manifestations of the creator. To be divine is to be one with nature which is according to cosmonogy every per sons responsibilty. YOU can not get over your concept of this ever living god which comes from the german Gut meaning lord or landlord. Stop putting your christianity belief system and meshing it with cosmonogoly if you are unable to do that u will forever be lost. Read with an open mind and heart and accept the love of your ancestors as they share there love for all of the attributes (physcial and spritual of the creator) . In the beginning there was the Amen(the hidden) the creation of god( the neteru) wadu hotep brother
Please specify which tribes in Africa today that read, write and speak ancient Egyptian.

Please specify which tribes in Africa today that read, write and speak ancient Egyptian.

Hotep

The Dogon, Massie, Yoruba and the Zulu are among those who read, write and speak "Medu Neteru". The only way you can learn and know properly is to be excepted as a "Initiate" by one of the Spiritual Prist or Masters. But your heart must be pure. http://www.theearthcenter.com/

Ase`


Note: Know that the Medu Neteru is the universal language of all of the secret school of initiation through out so-called Africa. It has never been lost and every thing the ancient ancistors knew is kept by the keepers of the Right Knowledge or Spirituality. Wake up and Know Thy Self* AMUN

Dogon

Well, I study the Dogon and know for a fact they have no written system. At least the last time I checked they didn’t.


Massie

I assume you mean Masai.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=Masai&sa=N&tab=wi

The Masai do indeed show signs of being from ancient Egypt and do have an oral history of being migrated out of Egypt by being told they were going to a land flowing with milk and honey. Several of the jewelry they wear is actually Egyptian Hieroglyphs but the original meaning has mostly been lost. They know mostly see them as protection amulets or pretty ornaments.

The Yoruba and Zulu I will have to research more but I think the Zulu speak Swahili.

The reason you will not find any tribes speaking, reading and writing ancient Egyptian is because the language was lost until the discovery of the Rosetta Stone. In the days of Kemet being able to read and write was equivalent to a master art. The average Kemet citizen did not know how to read and write Egyptian Hieroglyphs because as you can see it takes a skill on top of a skill which would take many years to master. The average farmer and worker just did not have time for that sort of thing.

So I would be extremely surprised to find an African tribe in existence today that read, writes and communicates in the ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphs as they originally was.


But your heart must be pure. http://www.theearthcenter.com/

I sent email to the web site owners, I don’t thank giving my money to people I know nothing about is the way to GOD. Why don’t you invite the brother to Destees chat room where we can experience his wisdom? Or would he charge us for that to?

What does your leader say about Akhenaten and his wisdom?

(Music Producer) - The reason you will not find any tribes speaking, reading and writing ancient Egyptian is because the language was lost until the discovery of the Rosetta Stone. In the days of Kemet being able to read and write was equivalent to a master art.

lost to europeans. the claim is that kemetian priests continued to practice the kemetian spiritual doctrines and were forced to go underground due to persecution.
additionally, the claim is that there was a broader spiritual connection across africa so that among various african peoples there were the initiated that could speak, read and write medu. not that there are entire tribes that do so.

lost to europeans. the claim is that kemetian priests continued to practice the kemetian spiritual doctrines and were forced to go underground due to persecution.
additionally, the claim is that there was a broader spiritual connection across africa so that among various african peoples there were the initiated that could speak, read and write medu. not that there are entire tribes that do so.

Well, ok maaan, what ever you say………

What do these Kemetian priest say about Akhenaten.

I would like more detail about Kemet ancient history as to what happen to the people of Akhetaten, not the basic stuff I can get from reading books but the good stuff that the white man don’t know about. Also I would like to see some Egyptian antiquities that these priest should have from when the ancestors went underground.

Something occurred to me about three days ago. In all of this talk about Metu Neter, I have read the book but started skimming it again because I have drawn a blank on remembering where the author actually says it was practiced by Nubians “today”.
The author never said that.

Even in skimming the book I can’t find the words.
That's because they're not there.
What I do find is where the author says, “it was practiced by ancient Nubians”,
Only in your imagination, since the author never said such a thing.
If someone remembers where the author actually reveals that the Metu Neter is practiced by Nubians of today in the desert somewhere, could you please give me the chapter and page number from vol 1 or 2?
The author said no such thing, so it's not possible to show you what doesn't exist.I think we are misrepresenting again.
You certainly are.

Sami:

The reason I originally posted this thread is because their were several Metu Neter promoters saying that Africans in Africa practice it today.

It is not I misrepresenting, I am just trying to get down to the Truth. In doing so I find several theories and point of views of some members that are NOT supported by the Metu Neter.

With their negative projection they are destroying the authors works.

Thank you for being upfront and honest.

The book should not be used to be the foundation of another Black Panthers or Alkyda or any group that promotes hate. From what I read of the Metu Neter it is a book of self-awareness although I disagree with it’s methodology of achieving that self-awareness but nothing in the book is being promoted by members on this board.

I call that a misrepresentation.

If the Metu Neter is real, true, and authorized by the Supreme Being, people that promote it would not have to lye or increase membership through false pretences as Servants of Jesus did in the days of the Crusades and as they do today. We don’t have to be like them and our religious ideals; if true, will flow and gain membership naturally.

(Music Producer) - The reason I originally posted this thread is because their were several Metu Neter promoters saying that Africans in Africa practice it today.

nile valley high culture is practiced in africa today. metu neter is the name a couple books, medu neter is the script and language which are still known today.
in this thread noone has said the metu neter books are the basis for the practices in africa, the metu neter books describes the kemetian system. nile valley high culture is practiced in africa.

thanks to the misspelling it is easy to distinguish the books from the language.

identify them.

(Music Producer) - I find several theories and point of views of some members that are NOT supported by the Metu Neter.

(Music Producer) - The book should not be used to be the foundation of another Black Panthers or Alkyda or any group that promotes hate.

what are you talking about?

(Music Producer) - If the Metu Neter is real, true, and authorized by the Supreme Being

do not confuse your spookism with this doctrine.
it is claimed that the ancestral spirits of the kemetians have authorized the metu neter teachings.

Nibs:


do not confuse your spookism with this doctrine.

The Paut Neteru

Sphere 0, would be the spookism you refer to.

It is the Sphere where GOD manifests I AM.

That is the only Sphere that I am drawn to, the Sphere of Consciousness. I no longer have an interest in derivatives of Sphere 0, nor do I do that anymore.

All the rest are a manifestation of the physical.


nile valley high culture is practiced in africa today. metu neter is the name a couple books, medu neter is the script and language which are still known today.
in this thread noone has said the metu neter books are the basis for the practices in africa, the metu neter books describes the kemetian system. nile valley high culture is practiced in africa.

thanks to the misspelling it is easy to distinguish the books from the language.

identify them.

So we agree that the author of the Metu Neter never says anything against the GOD manifested in the Holy Scriptures or Old Testament?


it is claimed that the ancestral spirits of the kemetians have authorized the metu neter teachings.

It is claimed and proven that Akhenaten (an ancestral spirit Pharaoh! of Kemet) and his authorized priesthood wrote the Holy Scriptures.

Hotep

The Dogon, Massie, Yoruba and the Zulu are among those who read, write and speak "Medu Neteru". The only way you can learn and know properly is to be excepted as a "Initiate" by one of the Spiritual Prist or Masters. But your heart must be pure. http://www.theearthcenter.com/

Ase`


Note: Know that the Medu Neteru is the universal language of all of the secret school of initiation through out so-called Africa. It has never been lost and every thing the ancient ancistors knew is kept by the keepers of the Right Knowledge or Spirituality. Wake up and Know Thy Self* AMUN

The problem with this "belief" is that the "Mother Tongue" of African people was long lost before organized "High Culture" and "secret schools of initiation". The "Neteru", including "Ra" or "Re" were not, nor are they actual "personifications" but aspects of the Divine Nature or Creative Power from whiich Creation emerged.

This is why it is nonsence to speak of "Ra", "Ptah", "Allah", Aten", "Christ" or "Yah" as if they were actually Beings capable of composing Written Texts, impregnating Earth Women, breathing life into man or fashioning man from mud or clay or from a potter's wheel.

What I find interesting is how "Medu Neter" proponents speak of "Ra" as the principle "GOD" when in fact "Ra" was a later creation during the early Dynastic Era and even before many Kings described themselves with the title "Son of Ra' an earlier designation was "Son of Ptah".

Furthermore, in many websites and books I have researched, "Ptah" is not even listed as one of the "Neteru".

Interestingly, the title "Ptah" is the word from which are derived "Path", and "Fatha", or "Father".

(Music Producer) - The Paut Neteru

Sphere 0, would be the spookism you refer to.

It is the Sphere where GOD manifests I AM.

no, please do not destroy the teachings of the metu neter to reflect your spookism. sphere 0 isn't a mystery god speaking to a prophets. the metu neter teaches of a path to self realization where anyone can attain divine self-realization, and that realization is never this super being you are advancing.
and you are confusing sphere 1 with sphere 0. sphere 0 is completely unmanifest. sphere would be i am. however, the mystery god "is not".

(Music Producer) - That is the only Sphere that I am drawn to, the Sphere of Consciousness. I no longer have an interest in derivatives of Sphere 0, nor do I do that anymore.

you claim this mystery god involves itself in the physical, and manifests in the physical. a direct contradiction.
you claim that there is only one god yet "anyone" can attain realization of this sphere 1 and thus godhood, or be on the cusp of godhood. directly contradicting your flat monotheistic doctrine.

(Music Producer) - So we agree that the author of the Metu Neter never says anything against the GOD manifested in the Holy Scriptures or Old Testament?

page 67, take a close look. he is completely mocking the mystery god portrayal of your god that manifests and demanifests. he classifies your thinking as european right there, separating god from man and the creation...etc.
exactly the opposite of what you claim.
ra un nefer amen is forced to coin the term syntheism as he does not want the kemetian understanding of the universe to be confused with your flat monotheism. that is how bad the abrahamic doctrine is. the man coined a new term to distance the doctrine from the abrahamic ideas. you'll notice on page 51 that he states monotheism in kemet existed 1000 years before akhenaten.
you will notice that when he discusses the gods and what each identification means, aten has no place. the great god amun is covered on numerous occasions, aten isn't even mentioned in vol 1; and only in scorn in volume 2.
the metu neter contradicts your doctrine.

(Music Producer) - It is claimed and proven that Akhenaten (an ancestral spirit Pharaoh! of Kemet) and his authorized priesthood wrote the Holy Scriptures.

akhenaten is not relevant. your theory as to the original source of abrahamic monotheism is interesting. i maintain that the documents were likely corrupted when they were appropriated in the narrative of king josiah; so if akhenaten was the original author the documents were likely corrupted at that point.
either way it is a false doctrine. the only real question is "how false?".

i found the references you alluded to regarding the claims that nubians continued to practice kemitian spiritual practices in secret; and on that same webpage is where the claim that the spirits of the ancestors of kemetian spirits sought out ra un nefer amen is.

The problem with this "belief" is that the "Mother Tongue" of African people was long lost before organized "High Culture" and "secret schools of initiation". The "Neteru", including "Ra" or "Re" were not, nor are they actual "personifications" but aspects of the Divine Nature or Creative Power from whiich Creation emerged.

This is why it is nonsence to speak of "Ra", "Ptah", "Allah", Aten", "Christ" or "Yah" as if they were actually Beings capable of composing Written Texts, impregnating Earth Women, breathing life into man or fashioning man from mud or clay or from a potter's wheel.

What I find interesting is how "Medu Neter" proponents speak of "Ra" as the principle "GOD" when in fact "Ra" was a later creation during the early Dynastic Era and even before many Kings described themselves with the title "Son of Ra' an earlier designation was "Son of Ptah".

Furthermore, in many websites and books I have researched, "Ptah" is not even listed as one of the "Neteru".

Interestingly, the title "Ptah" is the word from which are derived "Path", and "Fatha", or "Father".


let me explain further....

Scientifically we can take the root "Ra" or "Rey" (Spanish, meaning "King") and come to recognize many words associated with light, or energy..."Radiation, Radiance, Ray, Radio, Radioactive.

However, speaking of "secret societies", the Masonic concept of the G.A.O.T.U., who is the closest equivalent from the first or second dynastic era?

Who was considered the "OPENER of the Way (The Path)?

Who was considered the "Grand Architect"?

Any resposes that indicate other than "Ptah" prior to the second dynasty I would like exact reference in the Pyramid Texts, Papyrus of Ani or other related SACRED TEXTS.

Sorry...."Metu Neter" volumes 1 and 2 dont meet this criteria...

One would have to supply reference texts predating Imhotep or at least the era of King Menes.

(Music Producer) - The Paut Neteru

Sphere 0, would be the spookism you refer to.

It is the Sphere where GOD manifests I AM.

no, please do not destroy the teachings of the metu neter to reflect your spookism. sphere 0 isn't a mystery god speaking to a prophets. the metu neter teaches of a path to self realization where anyone can attain divine self-realization, and that realization is never this super being you are advancing.
and you are confusing sphere 1 with sphere 0. sphere 0 is completely unmanifest. sphere would be i am. however, the mystery god "is not".

(Music Producer) - That is the only Sphere that I am drawn to, the Sphere of Consciousness. I no longer have an interest in derivatives of Sphere 0, nor do I do that anymore.

you claim this mystery god involves itself in the physical, and manifests in the physical. a direct contradiction.
you claim that there is only one god yet "anyone" can attain realization of this sphere 1 and thus godhood, or be on the cusp of godhood. directly contradicting your flat monotheistic doctrine.

(Music Producer) - So we agree that the author of the Metu Neter never says anything against the GOD manifested in the Holy Scriptures or Old Testament?

page 67, take a close look. he is completely mocking the mystery god portrayal of your god that manifests and demanifests. he classifies your thinking as european right there, separating god from man and the creation...etc.
exactly the opposite of what you claim.
ra un nefer amen is forced to coin the term syntheism as he does not want the kemetian understanding of the universe to be confused with your flat monotheism. that is how bad the abrahamic doctrine is. the man coined a new term to distance the doctrine from the abrahamic ideas. you'll notice on page 51 that he states monotheism in kemet existed 1000 years before akhenaten.
you will notice that when he discusses the gods and what each identification means, aten has no place. the great god amun is covered on numerous occasions, aten isn't even mentioned in vol 1; and only in scorn in volume 2.
the metu neter contradicts your doctrine.

(Music Producer) - It is claimed and proven that Akhenaten (an ancestral spirit Pharaoh! of Kemet) and his authorized priesthood wrote the Holy Scriptures.

akhenaten is not relevant. your theory as to the original source of abrahamic monotheism is interesting. i maintain that the documents were likely corrupted when they were appropriated in the narrative of king josiah; so if akhenaten was the original author the documents were likely corrupted at that point.
either way it is a false doctrine. the only real question is "how false?".

i found the references you alluded to regarding the claims that nubians continued to practice kemitian spiritual practices in secret; and on that same webpage is where the claim that the spirits of the ancestors of kemetian spirits sought out ra un nefer amen is.


Interesting. Several statements here are the reason for my exact departure from the "Metu Neter" as written specifically concerning the reference or lack thereof concerning the "Aten".

The "Aten" was recognized as supreme deity even going back to Hatshepsut. When "Amen" or "Amun" was merely a LOCAL "God", long before the period of Amenhotep IV's reign.

I suggest reading the exact Liturgical reference's of Amenhotep III's period from which Akhenaten was initiated despiteclaims that he was never an initiate.

And again, I as for EXACT reference from the 18th dynasty or earlier as evidence. Not from man-written "religious texts" written some 3400 years later!

(omowalejabali) - What I find interesting is how "Medu Neter" proponents speak of "Ra" as the principle "GOD" when in fact "Ra" was a later creation during the early Dynastic Era and even before many Kings described themselves with the title "Son of Ra' an earlier designation was "Son of Ptah".

Furthermore, in many websites and books I have researched, "Ptah" is not even listed as one of the "Neteru".

ra isn't really the principle god. ra is the principle god of the physical aspect of creation, thus ra is seen as that initial bridge between the physical and purely spiritual; and the sustainer of the life-force energy within the physical realm. within the purely spiritual realm there is still higher levels of distinction, from nun which is pure potential and completely unmanifest spiritual realm, to amun which is the source of all the spiritual energy.

ptah is mentioned briefly.

outside of the metu neter, muata ashby has books that try to encompass the various schools of thought within kemet, so he has books that focus individually on ra (anunian theology), or amun (waset theology), or ptah (menefer theology), and also on djehuti (serpent power), ausar (ausiarian ressurection) and auset (the goddess) as well. these all representing various schools of thought. so you will see the disciplines with ptah at the center there.

i've noticed that the initiates of nile valley high culture (outside of metu neter) tend to focus on narratives where ptah is the central and principal god; and ra an aspect of this god.

(omowalejabali) - What I find interesting is how "Medu Neter" proponents speak of "Ra" as the principle "GOD" when in fact "Ra" was a later creation during the early Dynastic Era and even before many Kings described themselves with the title "Son of Ra' an earlier designation was "Son of Ptah".

Furthermore, in many websites and books I have researched, "Ptah" is not even listed as one of the "Neteru".

ra isn't really the principle god. ra is the principle god of the physical aspect of creation, thus ra is seen as that initial bridge between the physical and purely spiritual; and the sustainer of the life-force energy within the physical realm. within the purely spiritual realm there is still higher levels of distinction, from nun which is pure potential and completely unmanifest spiritual realm, to amun which is the source of all the spiritual energy.

ptah is mentioned briefly.

outside of the metu neter, muata ashby has books that try to encompass the various schools of thought within kemet, so he has books that focus individually on ra (pert em heru & anunian theology), or amun (waset theology), or ptah (menefer theology), and also on djehuti (serpent power), ausar (ausiarian ressurection) and auset (the goddess) as well. these all representing various schools of thought. so you will see the disciplines with ptah at the center there.

i've noticed that the initiates of nile valley high culture (outside of metu neter) tend to focus on narratives where ptah is the central and principal god; and ra an aspect of this god.

As you stated..."ptah is mentioned briefly"....yet, during tha long period from King Menes until the 18th Dynasty "PTAH" was considered the primary Diety among the "initiated" up until the reign of Hatsheptut and the Temple of Denderah.

This was due largely to the fact that what many now refer to as "Khemetic" or "metu neter" as preceeded by the "Memphite Theology" before a power shift into Thebes, leading the the so-called "Thebean Rescension" in which "Amun-Re" became the principal deity among the PRIESTHOOD which rebelled against Akhenaten who actually had sought to reverse THEIR "reforms". This is why he built temples OUTSITE of the proximity of Thebes.

since you have "noticed that the initiates of nile valley high culture (outside of metu neter) tend to focus on narratives where ptah is the central and principal god; an ra an aspect of this god" then my point needs no further elaboration except to note that what this also means is that the language of "metu neter" is NOT as "universal" as alledged, nor can it be considered THE 'root language' but a derivative of the form which PREDATED it.

This is difficult for 'metu neter' proponents to accept because it calls into question other claims concerning the alledged "sole authority" of Ra Un Nefer Amen himself, and the legitimacy of even the reference of ALL AFRICAN PEOPLE as "khemetic" which is why one one hand, "Khemetic" refers to NILE VALLEY High culture centered at Thebes, while "Nubian" actually refers to an EARLIER "Triad" whose root, again, is based in the Congo Basin.

Furthermore, considering the short period of the THEBAN era, including the brief 19th dynasty, to now hold this as a reference again to ALL AFRICN PEOPLE is not accepted by MOST Continental Africans and for sure not among "Ethiopians", "Cu****es", or "Sudanese" who were at times subjected to "Khemetic" rule but who also had later ruled over "Khemet".

Peace!

As you stated..."ptah is mentioned briefly"....yet, during tha long period from King Menes until the 18th Dynasty "PTAH" was considered the primary Diety among the "initiated" up until the reign of Hatsheptut and the Temple of Denderah.

This was due largely to the fact that what many now refer to as "Khemetic" or "metu neter" as preceeded by the "Memphite Theology" before a power shift into Thebes, leading the the so-called "Thebean Rescension" in which "Amun-Re" became the principal deity among the PRIESTHOOD which rebelled against Akhenaten who actually had sought to reverse THEIR "reforms". This is why he built temples OUTSITE of the proximity of Thebes.

since you have "noticed that the initiates of nile valley high culture (outside of metu neter) tend to focus on narratives where ptah is the central and principal god; an ra an aspect of this god" then my point needs no further elaboration except to note that what this also means is that the language of "metu neter" is NOT as "universal" as alledged, nor can it be considered THE 'root language' but a derivative of the form which PREDATED it.

This is difficult for 'metu neter' proponents to accept because it calls into question other claims concerning the alledged "sole authority" of Ra Un Nefer Amen himself, and the legitimacy of even the reference of ALL AFRICAN PEOPLE as "khemetic" which is why one one hand, "Khemetic" refers to NILE VALLEY High culture centered at Thebes, while "Nubian" actually refers to an EARLIER "Triad" whose root, again, is based in the Congo Basin.

Furthermore, considering the short period of the THEBAN era, including the brief 19th dynasty, to now hold this as a reference again to ALL AFRICN PEOPLE is not accepted by MOST Continental Africans and for sure not among "Ethiopians", "Cu****es", or "Sudanese" who were at times subjected to "Khemetic" rule but who also had later ruled over "Khemet".

Peace!


I know some folks have problems with the "B.O.D." as compiled by Budge solely because he was a white man but Budge and Gerald Massey proveided us with some objective data to analyze. For example, in the Introduction, Budge explains the development of the HELIOPOLITAN RECENSION in which he states....."that which was edited by the priests of the College of Anu (the On of the Bible, and the Heliopoils of the Greeks), and which was based upon a series of texts now lost. It is found cut in hieroglyphs upon the walls of the chambers and corridors of the pyramid tombs of certain kings of the Vth and VIth dynasties."

Also...."In the texts of the later kings we find that the priests of Ra were obliged to acknowledge the supremacy of Osiris, whose cult, even under the earliest dynasties, was very general in Upper and Lower Egypt."

Well....in all due respect....most likely these "series of texts now lost" are the same texts that were retained until the Amenist priesthood usurped the throne of Akhenaten and destroyed them!

Certainly, they were retained by the Thebans up until the reign of Akhenaten's father as they were "revised" during the building of the Temple of Denderah, during the reign of Hatshepsut. These texts were originally derived from the Heliopolitan Recension and known as the Theban Recension, which was used from the XVIIIth untill the XXIInd dynasty.

This is to say, prior to the shift in power to Thebes ALL "religious texts" were based upon the Heliopolitan Recension. before they were "revised".

Again, no disrespect, but i would like to be provided with EVIDENCE PREDATING the reign of Akhenaten that states otherwise.

By the way....I noticed another discussion and did not respond in which there was an argument to the effect that the "Lybians" were "white people". I suggest reference to the B.O.D. page 194 which mentions the building of the temple at Karnak. There is a connection here as on page 154 it is stated, concerning the "four great nations of men" that ....

"the Egyptians and the Libyans are said to have sprung from the eye of Ra"


!!!!!

(omowalejabali) - This was due largely to the fact that what many now refer to as "Khemetic" or "metu neter" as preceeded by the "Memphite Theology" before a power shift into Thebes, leading the the so-called "Thebean Rescension" in which "Amun-Re" became the principal deity among the PRIESTHOOD which rebelled against Akhenaten who actually had sought to reverse THEIR "reforms". This is why he built temples OUTSITE of the proximity of Thebes.

muata ashby claims that both the hektptahian (memphite) theology and the wasetian (theban) rescension where preceeded by a anunian (heliopian) recension, where ra alone was celebrated. ashby also states that first it was tum or tem/temu that was identified as the principle god, and temu became associated with ra later on. this in the 1-5 dynasties. so it seems that muata ashby preserves that aspect of the history.
thus, there is an atum-ra or ra-tem connection that is older than amun-ra.

(omowalejabali) - This is difficult for 'metu neter' proponents to accept because it calls into question other claims concerning the alledged "sole authority" of Ra Un Nefer Amen himself, and the legitimacy of even the reference of ALL AFRICAN PEOPLE as "khemetic" which is why one one hand, "Khemetic" refers to NILE VALLEY High culture centered at Thebes, while "Nubian" actually refers to an EARLIER "Triad" whose root, again, is based in the Congo Basin.

a) i view the metu neter as one school of thought among many; or one interpretation of a school of thought. thus, it isn't a big deal to me.

b) there is no question that nubia (sudan/ethiopia) / kush (ethiopia/eritrea?) is older than kemet.

c) it's all symbolic. are you suggesting the metu neter gets the symbolism wrong?

Something occurred to me about three days ago. In all of this talk about Metu Neter, I have read the book but started skimming it again because I have drawn a blank on remembering where the author actually says it was practiced by Nubians “today”. Even in skimming the book I can’t find the words. What I do find is where the author says, “it was practiced by ancient Nubians”, not necessarily meaning it is practices and he gained his information from Nubians of today.

If someone remembers where the author actually reveals that the Metu Neter is practiced by Nubians of today in the desert somewhere, could you please give me the chapter and page number from vol 1 or 2?

I think we are misrepresenting again.

But I might be wrong.
:book:


To even assert that "it was practiced by ancient Nubians" is somewhat dishonest considerring that, as Budge points out, ...."and there is reason to think that many if the great Egyptian raids in Syria and Nubia were made as much for the purpose of supplying funds for the maintenance of the temples....."


Again, this is my point of departure.

Essentially, what is today considered as "Khemetic" 3100 years ago was "Egyptian" and the "Egyptians, along with the "Libyans" were referred to as "Men", as in the "four races of Men" while the other two have been referrenced as "Negroes" and "Asiatics".

"Nubians" were depicted in "Egyptian" art as "Negroes". Thus it is totally erroneous today to consider "Nubians" as "Khemetic".

"Nubians" were SUBJECTED by the "Egyptians" (Khemites) as the "Amenist" priesthood gained ascendency.

This is to say that essentially, the modern day "Amenists" (i.e. "medu neter") are a remnant of a religious HIERARCHY which USURPED the "royal bloodline"!!

Ironically, claims that the "Nommo" represent "Neteru" or that the "Dogon" were practiced/or continue to practice "medu neter" or speak the "Mother Tongue" is a total fabrication and complete FALLACY.

For one, if the knowledge was actually retained by a "secret society" how could it then be published by a member of the ROSICRUCIAN Order

!!!

(omowalejabali) - This was due largely to the fact that what many now refer to as "Khemetic" or "metu neter" as preceeded by the "Memphite Theology" before a power shift into Thebes, leading the the so-called "Thebean Rescension" in which "Amun-Re" became the principal deity among the PRIESTHOOD which rebelled against Akhenaten who actually had sought to reverse THEIR "reforms". This is why he built temples OUTSITE of the proximity of Thebes.

muata ashby claims that both the hektptahian (memphite) theology and the wasetian (theban) rescension where preceeded by a anunian (heliopian) recension, where ra alone was celebrated. ashby also states that first it was tum or tem/temu that was identified as the principle god, and temu became associated with ra later on. this in the 1-5 dynasties. so it seems that muata ashby preserves that aspect of the history.
thus, there is an atum-ra or ra-tem connection that is older than amun-ra.

(omowalejabali) - This is difficult for 'metu neter' proponents to accept because it calls into question other claims concerning the alledged "sole authority" of Ra Un Nefer Amen himself, and the legitimacy of even the reference of ALL AFRICAN PEOPLE as "khemetic" which is why one one hand, "Khemetic" refers to NILE VALLEY High culture centered at Thebes, while "Nubian" actually refers to an EARLIER "Triad" whose root, again, is based in the Congo Basin.

a) i view the metu neter as one school of thought among many; or one interpretation of a school of thought. thus, it isn't a big deal to me.

b) there is no question that nubia (sudan/ethiopia) / kush (ethiopia/eritrea?) is older than kemet.

c) it's all symbolic. are you suggesting the metu neter gets the symbolism wrong?


"it's all symbolic"

I am not merely suggesting "the metu neter gets the symbolism wrong" but there is another explanation written within the written "metu neter" itself.

For one, I disagree totally that "it's all symbolic"

The so-called war between Horus and the "Sethians" is not merely symbolic nor is the historical usurpation of the "Memphite"by the "Theban".

These represent historical shifts in the Balance of power, the centre of which POLITICAL and RELIGIOUS POWER were based and if they were merely "symbolic" why would there be continued efforts to malign the character of Akhenaten to the point that some even condemn him for marrying a "white woman" and labeling "Nefertiti" as such??!!

Brother, in all respect..."getting something wrong" is one thing....destroying "sacred texts" and "plagarizing" is another ball game..

Peace...Im done..

"it's all symbolic"

I am not merely suggesting "the metu neter gets the symbolism wrong" but there is another explanation written within the written "metu neter" itself.

For one, I disagree totally that "it's all symbolic"

The so-called war between Horus and the "Sethians" is not merely symbolic nor is the historical usurpation of the "Memphite"by the "Theban".

These represent historical shifts in the Balance of power, the centre of which POLITICAL and RELIGIOUS POWER were based and if they were merely "symbolic" why would there be continued efforts to malign the character of Akhenaten to the point that some even condemn him for marrying a "white woman" and labeling "Nefertiti" as such??!!

Brother, in all respect..."getting something wrong" is one thing....destroying "sacred texts" and "plagarizing" is another ball game..

Peace...Im done..


Note:

I dont intend to debate any points I raised here. Folks can deny, refute, or do as they please. One thing for sure, I have read very thoroughly many posts here by so-called "metu neter" proponents which are filled with so many holes that it is evident to me what happened to "Black people" on a SPIRITUAL level long before the triangular trade.

I have issue with some of brother Music Producer's claims and I think that even though he asserts to speak the true "Word of God" there a points which indicate that he does not quite have a grasp on how similar the "Bible" or "enuma Elish" were to the Heliopolitan Rescension but he is much closer than those who have bought into the theology which emerged from Thebes.

And to further highlight an observation.....interestingly it is an older Black nationalist community which seems to refer as "Khemetic" and many of these same individuals run counter to "Hip Hop culture" which COMMONLY refers as "Nubian".......

Note:

I dont intend to debate any points I raised here. Folks can deny, refute, or do as they please. One thing for sure, I have read very thoroughly many posts here by so-called "metu neter" proponents which are filled with so many holes that it is evident to me what happened to "Black people" on a SPIRITUAL level long before the triangular trade.

I have issue with some of brother Music Producer's claims and I think that even though he asserts to speak the true "Word of God" there a points which indicate that he does not quite have a grasp on how similar the "Bible" or "enuma Elish" were to the Heliopolitan Rescension but he is much closer than those who have bought into the theology which emerged from Thebes.

And to further highlight an observation.....interestingly it is an older Black nationalist community which seems to refer as "Khemetic" and many of these same individuals run counter to "Hip Hop culture" which COMMONLY refers as "Nubian".......

The problem is that sprituality is not different than anything else it is in the eye of the beholder. I agree with brother nibs. I never looked at any literature as the one and only interpretations of my progressive study. one cannot get caught up into one way of teaching or your growth is stunted at that point. MY individual usage of the word nubians gives me a better and more personal connection with our ancestors. The new beings or nu bians are the first cut of our ancestors after the mixing of the blood all over the planet. Our ancestors (olmecs) and other ancient tribes were considered new borns or nuwbuns to the planet. This word usage is associated with ANU (which just means i once knew) of the eluma ish as Anubians or anubuwns the first born of the planet that mixed in with the tahites the (pygimes) or
decendants of the planet. with the first creation of the la lu almelu "The slaves" to mine goal on this planet for sirrus a because it lost it's atmosphere during war with the draco or dragons. MY overstanding is the entire planet is our stomping ground not just khem it or africa from the roman (afruqua) means to seperate. what do you think brother?

(omowalejabali)

you have raised excellent points, lets try to address them and clarify the isssue.

(omowalejabali) - To even assert that "it was practiced by ancient Nubians" is somewhat dishonest

completely valid point. i'm using the language of others, not my own. in this thread, music producer questioned the claim that metu neter was practiced by nubians in africa today. i believe this is the original quote he was referencing:
http://www.rootsandrooted.org/ausar_auset.htm
The Ausar Auset Society is a Pan African Religious organization founded in 1973. As Legend would have it, Ra Un Nefer Amen developed a congenial relationship with Oba Adefunmi and began to consult the Ifa Oracle through the Oba for the purpose of organizing the spiritual experiences and messages he was clearly receiving from the Spiritual realm. Those consultations shaped some early organizational structure and comparative religious studies that resulted in the Society. Again, as legend would have it, a small group of Orisa priests (Ol'Orisa) were beseeched by Kemetic Sheps (Ancestors) to assist Amen in the establishment of what most consider the only legitimate revival of Egyptian spirituality outside of the relatively underground Nubian community that survives in North Africa. They helped develop and train the core group of original Society priests. Prior to this tradition, some say that Ra Un Nefer Amen was the former head of the Rosicrucian Anthroposophical League.

the term "nubian" in this context arises from that description; and is basically used as a generic term for african there.
there is no reason to think that these teachings were universal within kemet, and were also practiced in nubia.
we know that the nubians shared a few gods with kemet but had their own practices and understandings of things.
we know that across kemet, the various priesthoods across various cities had their own particular interpretations; favored particular cosmogenies and gods. we can see where the characters in the creation stories and myths change and understand how this reflects different political struggles; as well as symbolic shifts in thought...etc.

here we don't disagree.

muata ashby has books dedicated to various schools of philosophy, focusing on different gods and combinations of god. thus the variance is better reflected there. if you look at the "legend" cited above about the spirits that helped with the medu neter...it is actually pretty clear that ra's work is only a continuation of one group and not necessarily universal across kemet.

(omowalejabali) - "Nubians" were depicted in "Egyptian" art as "Negroes". Thus it is totally erroneous today to consider "Nubians" as "Khemetic".

actually many of the depictions showed nubians in the exact same dress and postures as kemetians; indicating the greater connection. the depictions varied; but the earliest portrayed the two as virtually identical.

(omowalejabali) - Ironically, claims that the "Nommo" represent "Neteru" or that the "Dogon" were practiced/or continue to practice "medu neter" or speak the "Mother Tongue" is a total fabrication and complete FALLACY.

For one, if the knowledge was actually retained by a "secret society" how could it then be published by a member of the ROSICRUCIAN Order

!!!

actually, metu neter books, and r.u.n.a.'s teachings are seen as a revival of ancient traditions that he undertook with guidance. in contrast, the underground practitioners of nile valley high culture are seen as a continuation of the original traditions of a people that were once exiled. so the claims attributed to the one group are not related to the specific teachings of r.u.n.a.

(omowalejabali) - I am not merely suggesting "the metu neter gets the symbolism wrong" but there is another explanation written within the written "metu neter" itself.

if you wish to touch specifically on which of the teachings in the metu neter are incorrect, then do so. currently you are arguing politics. let's go over what is and isn't in the metu neter:

a mystery god (spook):

our friend the music producer is looking for a mystery god to worship. unfortunately for him there is no mystery god in the metu neter. god did not create the universe to watch it and pass judgement. god has created the universe to experience, and thus exists within the creation. it is up for man to connect with and cultivate the divine consciousness within; and establish divine order below, on earth.

man

there are no prophets chosen by a mystery god, man can become aware of divine consciousness and thus exist in harmony with divine order. the "ausar man" has reached this level of consciousness, realized his own divine potential and thus controls his own future.

life

life is not a test, it is an opportunity to experience. the "ausar man" has the ability to choose to continue experiencing or to return to a higher mode of existence.

nature

realizing these higher modes of consciousness brings man back in tune with nature, and facilitates higher mental and psychic abilities including divination/prophecy...communicating with one's ancestors...etc.

immortality

unlike the pert em heru and older coffin and pyramid texts; the metu neter books consider immortality as the survival of one's identity across incarnations. even with that more limited definition, the metu neter does not focus on this principle and takes reincarnations almost for granted.
in contrast, the general theme of the pert em heru...etc seems to be attaining immortality by preventing future human incarnations, and allowing one's spirit (identity) and soul to move on to a more divine "god-like" existence without being emcumbered with a physical incarnation.

imho this is a significant break in doctrine, as the metu neter is more focused on establishing divine order below, and while it recognizes a path back to divinity or higher forms of existence...that is not the focus.

that is my summary of the conclusions/interpretations that the metu neter teaches...

so, omowalejabali...in terms of doctrine...what would you say the metu neter is getting wrong?

more specifically, let's return to this:
(omowalejabali) - For one, if the knowledge was actually retained by a "secret society" how could it then be published by a member of the ROSICRUCIAN Order

what are you implying with that? are you suggesting that the doctrine of ra un nefer amen is actually some false european doctrine rebadged with kemetian characters? why the focus on "rosicrucian order"?

Hetep,

My brother, you seem to thrive on a lot of conjecture about historical matters, as well as some emotionalism about the former affiliations of Ra Un Nefer Amen and perhaps have had some brushes with the Ausar Auset Society in the past.

For one, let me start off by saying I'm a serious hip-hop head, and have been since I was 13 years old. My father used to play Tribe, Black Sheep and Digable Planets in the house and the car, and so I got to be very familiar with the "Nubians" of hip-hop. My first Afrocentric book was "Before the Mayflower" by Lerone Bennett, where I learned about the marvelous cities of Nubia, the Kentakes of Kush, the Napatan Dynasty and the Tekhenw of Meroe.

It is a serious insult to at least my sensibilities to generalize the members of the Ausar Auset Society as "older Nationalist heads" without any awareness of the Nubian heritage of the Kamitic people. Furthermore, it's tactless in that you've presented no tangible evidence other than a political schism which, as you claim, resulted in the priority of Amen-Ra over Ptah, in an attempt to consolidate Ra Un Nefer Amen into a "side" of a battle which in truth is happening only in your head.

Let's examine the *actual comments* of Amen on these issues before we even get started.

"Who was considered the "Grand Architect"?

Any resposes that indicate other than "Ptah" prior to the second dynasty I would like exact reference in the Pyramid Texts, Papyrus of Ani or other related SACRED TEXTS.

Sorry...."Metu Neter" volumes 1 and 2 dont meet this criteria..."

The problem with this statement is that Ra Un Nefer Amen never makes Ptah anything other than the Grand Architect of the Universe. His intent, in Metu Neter vol 2 was not to marginalize the philosophic breadth of the Ptahite cosmogony, but rather to contrast its more hoary application against the theology of Memphis, which, as he states on p. 39 of that book, was conceived

"...712-698 B.C....(The Memphite priests) likened the process (of differentiation in the undifferentiated energy/matter) to the fashioning of crafts that comprised the dominant occupation of their city. As a fashioner, the Supreme Being was called Ptah. The cosmogony focuses essentially on the consciousness/omniscience (Saia, Sia) and will (Hu, the tongue, faculty of utterance) of God. We must appreciate the chooice of Hu, the tongue, as opposed to the word. The Kamitic sages were very keen on the fact that at this stage of reality there is absolute silence...The difference between the treatment of Ptah here and in the Theban cosmogony is that while in the Memphite, Ptah represents the Supreme Being itself, in the Theban it is one of the three fundamental attributes of the Supreme BEING. We must make note of the fact that in claiming that Ptah created Atum, the priests of Ptah went a little overboard, as the immaterial consciousness (Atem) is by nature uncreated and eternal."-p. 39

Those of Amen's statements that I emphasized demonstrate that, his critique notwithstanding, he yet sympathizes with a metaphysical concept, and thus at least the milieu in which the Memphite priests posited Ptah in the role of the Supreme Being, if not with their specific arbitration.

Notice that, at no point does Amen outstrip Ptah of the prerogatives of the creator, or specifically of the Fashioner of things, though he had ample opportunity to do so in the opening sentences of this paragraph, specifically in his handling of the "fashioner crafts" whose industry apparently inspired these priests; i.e., had he intended to make their attribution of the creative process to Ptah baseless, he could have easily done so here. He also situates the origin of the Ptahite cosmology with which he has qualms WELL AFTER the period in debate, proving that his arguments have nothing to do with your conspiratorial paradigm.

But, there is more to the "Ptah Problem" than even the misconstruction of these statements, for in fact, Ra Un Nefer Amen incorporates Ptah into his *own* cosmogony, which he regards as original, in Vol. I of Metu Neter:

"The Kamitic term for "destiny" is "Skher," and for plan is "Sekher," which are clearly etymologically related to "Seker." No two things can occupy the same place at the same time. Divine law, therefore, guarantees all things their day in the sun. Our coming into being, and the unfolding of all events in our life are controlled by the spiritual forces (Ptah) at the Seker level for the sake of maintaining order in the world."-p.222

Here, Amen has done something of paramount importance to this discussion. He has positively placed Ptah at the helm of the creation of the world. By attributing to Ptah the spiritual forces which deal with the unfoldment of things in the world, and this, considered along with his earlier exposition on the meaning of the Kamitic term "Hu," as the "faculty of utterance"; in other words, it is novel from the above 3 spheres (Amen, Ausar and Tehuti) in that it is the domain of Words of Power, which I'm sure you realize as the key to the High Initiation of which you made mention in a later post.

In so doing, he has made Ptah a "special consideration" of that specific attribute of the Seker sphere, which in "itself" is not ultimately reducible to mere fashioning of forms, because this faculty is necessarily appended to a sphere of Being that transcends even the need *to* manifest. In Amen's system, all other deities, even those of the Ba, Khu, and Shekhem divisions of the spirit, are agencies of earthly life, and in their case, the proper ordering and administration of earthly life by the metaphysical laws of Amen which, necessarily, transcend the need for Amen's manifestation into the world in the first place. This becomes important when we examine the metaphorein of Orisa-Nla and of Olodumare later in the post.

In other words, he (Amen) is actually considering the No-Thingness which mandates the Creative Faculty.

Now, as to any Pyramid Text which gives Ptah a priority over Atum, my person is unfamiliar with these. Everything I've seen has placed Atum as the progenitor of Shu and Tefnut.

Interesting. Several statements here are the reason for my exact departure from the "Metu Neter" as written specifically concerning the reference or lack thereof concerning the "Aten".

The "Aten" was recognized as supreme deity even going back to Hatshepsut. When "Amen" or "Amun" was merely a LOCAL "God", long before the period of Amenhotep IV's reign.

I suggest reading the exact Liturgical reference's of Amenhotep III's period from which Akhenaten was initiated despiteclaims that he was never an initiate.

I don't recall the Shekhem Ur Shekhem saying that so-called "Atenism" was innovated by Akhenaten, or that he was not "initiated" into the worship of Aten. However, I beg the following question: at what point is Aten the "Supreme Being" in Memphis at the time of Hatshepsut's rule? What specific stele or relief, or hymn makes Aten preside over all the others?

As you stated..."ptah is mentioned briefly"....yet, during tha long period from King Menes until the 18th Dynasty "PTAH" was considered the primary Diety among the "initiated" up until the reign of Hatsheptut and the Temple of Denderah.

For your many demands of evidences from the periods in question, I have not seen you specifically quote any one source which makes PTAH the "Supreme Being" among the Kamitian initiated until the 18th Dynasty. Again, I believe this is an issue of misrepresentation, as Ra Un Nefer Amen has never undermined the importance of Ptah, and in fact, Ptah is mentioned quite frequently: in the form of Ptah proper; as syncretized with the attributes of Seker (an action which has its actual precedence in Kamitian historical religion); and as implied in Amen's exegesis of the spiritual powers of creation and creative unfoldment (the so-called "siddhis" of tantrism) attained at the level of the Seker sphere of initiation, which, again, on p. 222 of Metu Neter vol. I, Amen equates with Ptah.

This was due largely to the fact that what many now refer to as "Khemetic" or "metu neter" as preceeded by the "Memphite Theology" before a power shift into Thebes, leading the the so-called "Thebean Rescension" in which "Amun-Re" became the principal deity among the PRIESTHOOD which rebelled against Akhenaten who actually had sought to reverse THEIR "reforms". This is why he built temples OUTSITE of the proximity of Thebes.

The problem with this theory is that either the Memphite or Theban cosmology may lay claim to the proper representation of the Ptahite concept. Your burden lies in attributing the engendering of Atum to Ptah *outside* the Memphite documents at any point in the history of Kamitic religious document, which you haven't done, thus removing this contention from the discussion.

This is difficult for 'metu neter' proponents to accept because it calls into question other claims concerning the alledged "sole authority" of Ra Un Nefer Amen himself, and the legitimacy of even the reference of ALL AFRICAN PEOPLE as "khemetic" which is why one one hand, "Khemetic" refers to NILE VALLEY High culture centered at Thebes, while "Nubian" actually refers to an EARLIER "Triad" whose root, again, is based in the Congo Basin.

Interesting. Amen has gone to great lengths to argue that the origin of the teachings he propounds is to be found in the interior of Africa. Beyond this, we enter into the mythological and speculative realm, where it is indeed most difficult to get ones' proper footing.

It seems to my person that you are arguing that, in all other African traditions, the idea of God as the Shaper of Things presides over the being, Atum, that Amen has represented as the No-Thingness, or that the Shaper faculty did not emanate from this being.

We have to be surgically careful here, because what you've done is to militate against Amen's "logical structure", and the different meanings with which his system imbues the deities, rather than presenting the raw data for itself, because by estimating his attribution of the pre-eminence of Ptah to the Memphite priesthood as woefully inaccurate, you've effectively considered Ptah *as precisely* what Amen has depicted him, in function if not in chronology, and sought for his cognates in other African societies.

The problem with your method, although hypothetically tenable, is that the scarcity of documentary evidences for the earliest pantheons of Africa outside of the Nile Valley make its pursuance impractical. However, we can easily amend this fault with a cursory examination of an available and highly-documented, though somewhat contemporary religion of the Yorubas; that is, the worship of Orisha-nla:

"ORISA-NLA is the third Yoruba Supreme Being. It is said that at the time of creation, Olodumare---the first Supreme Being-- prepared the materials with which man was created, namely iron and clay. Hence man is called Ako-irin (male-iron), and woman Obi-irin (female-iron)...While Olodumare prepared the materials, Orisa-nla fashioned the mouth, shaped the nose and fixed the eyes and all members of the body...As priests and priestesses, albinoes, the lame and the hunchback form the majority. They keep themselves to Orisa-nla in order to be fed or cured. They believe that having offended in former lives and being adjudged guilty by Orisa-nla, they are punished accordingly for past offenses."-IFA, The Ancient Wisdom by Afolabi A. Epega, pp. 46-47

Thus, we can see that, in a society of indigenous African people, who may be generated randomly from any point of exodus in the Nile Valley (if one so deems that their origin), a Nile Valley cosmology which descends from, as Amen has stated, Olodumare (or Amen) *into* Orisa-Nla (or Ptah-Seker) is genuinely applicable.

In this example, the nearness of the attributes of Seker and of Ptah, which necessitated the subordination of the attributes of Ptah to Seker in the Ausarian system, even elucidates what this conversation has overlooked: placing a premium on the practical application of metaphysical truths to the layperson's life over learned philosophical exposition, the idea of Seker as it relates to submission to the divine plan, rather than the role of Seker as shaper of things, is the major appeal of the dispossessed initiates into Ptah's cult in Nigeria. Reincarnation (and specifically the dangers associated with forgetfulness of it) is also the precise plane of Seker's activity in the religion of Ausar Auset.

To further the above idea, we have in the Orisa-Nla metaphorein that Olodumare had departed from earth and returned to Heaven (i.e., became hidden, Amen) before Orisa-Nla, and that the latter dwelt among men for a long time, teaching them the proper way to live, before returning to Heaven with his regent, Atem. In no way is this compatible with a priority of Ptah over Atem or Amen (which are aspects of God delineated in the chronology of the metaphorein, and thus not nominally separated in this instance) in the faith of the Yorubas.

The foregoing is a faithful first step to address your concerns about the "Kamitic system", and specifically, the concepts of the priesthood of Amen-Ra, as being a genuine continuation of the African system, or as being applicable to all African people. I can't speak categorically for all African people, but it is certainly applicable at least to a large division of the African race, namely those of Niger, Benin, and the Diaspora Santerians. If there are more examples I can think of, I will summarily post them in a follow-up.

In closing, I will say this: there are several points in the opening chapters of Metu Neter where Amen has made it flatly apparent that the Nubians/Ku****es of pre-history were responsible for the clean diffusion of the traditions of Yoga, Pranayama, Qi Gong, the Mahavedyas and Tantrism generally from Nubia into the Tigris and the Indus Kush Valley, and from the Ku****es of India into China via Bodhidharma. That he places these practices at the foundation of the Kamitic way of life is ample evidence of his stance on the commonality of these peoples, so that your concern should not be to place the origin of our doctrine at some 19th Dynasty "usurpation", but rather, to effectively remove the basis for our *religion* (not our cosmology, which is philosophical, not yogic), AS AMEN HAS REPRESENTED IT, from pre-historic Nubia, without upsetting their positions in China, Mesopotamia, India and Palestine from pre-historic times.

At the very least, his centralization of the religion we practice in the remote South at a pre-historic period should quiet your suggestions of his "anti-Nubianism", whatever place that has in this discussion.

Hetep.

Nibs:
Omowalejabali:

Depending upon which prospective of the tribes that made-up Egypt you are coming from and Dynasty. Now do you see why Akhenaten setout to change and culminate all of the scattered theories of Kemet, mainly to stop the people from fighting and hinder religious takeover of government. But in doing so he became the target of assault.

In my study of Kemet Cosmology when you stand back and look at it as a whole it is complete chaos and anarchy. This is because most people when studying Kemet / Egypt religion fail to realize they are looking at religious or cosmology ideals that covers about 8000 years of history and spans the reign of mutable tribes and people who all had their own derivative concepts of Cosmology.

We act as if religion, cosmology, cosmogony has not the ability to be corrupted. To solve this problem one would have to study the constant of all the theologies in Kemet from its origin. In doing so you find One constant, and that is the Supreme Being, no mater what the name of that Supreme Being is. From the point of view of the Supreme Being of all the cosmologies of Kemet Akhenaten setout to finalize Kemet theology and establish it as one unified religious force. Akhenaten and several, well behaved Amun Priests and studies of theology wrote the Holy Scriptures. What I mean by, “well behaved Priests” are those priests that did not use religion as a means to take over government and gain power. But even in the Holy Scriptures we continue to see the theological differences manifests between these priests that followed Akhenaten as Pharaoh or Chef authority over the final say so of a book that would unite Kemet in One GOD. You can see the different manifestations of the Supreme Being from the point of view of the Kemet Priests as the Yahwist, Elohist, Priestly and Deuteronomist.

Akhenaten’s plan was working and going good, Akhetaten became one of the wealthiest cities of Egypt. It was puling in so much wealth and resources from people all over the country and beyond Egypt that Akhenaten started covering the walls with gold leaf and many armies from Egypt and tributaries constantly sent letters to Akhenaten for resources and troops, you can get a feeling of how great Akhetaten became through reading ISBN 0-8018-4251-4, The Amarna Letters.

All was good until the thug Amun Priesthood that Akhenaten had relinquished there position because they were hustling religion and only interested in taking over government for power got so jealous and vengeful that they attacked members of Akhenaten’s family, even attempting to assassinate Akhenaten himself and establishing a cults that saw Akhenaten as what we would call Lucifer today.

They began infiltrating the courts of Akhenaten, so much so that they were able to murder both his daughters. The main person suspected of being the betrayer within Akhenaten’s courts was Lord Ay.

Nibs:


no, please do not destroy the teachings of the metu neter

You and your gang are already doing that as you expand your membership and start running into more intelligible African Americans. The difference between those intelligible African Americans and those that are not is intelligible African Americans can read and comprehend. The people you have grabbed are those that can read but they don’t comprehend. I am sure you have run into these same types of African Americans in the Servants of Jesus communities. They can rattle off beautiful verses and passages and speak them in a lovely hypnotic tone. But cannot give the deeper meaning of the passages nor have any idea as to its relations to the big picture. That type of mind is the bulk of your membership.


the metu neter teaches of a path to self realization where anyone can attain divine self-realization,

Then why don’t you teach only that? Why do you have to teach prejudice against the Old

Testament when that is NOT found in the Metu Neter and you have absolutely no resource for doing so?


Metu Neter, chapter 6, first paragraph, page 69:
Before creation can began, the Supreme Being must first make objective its qualities of Being (Sphere 0). Note that in the Subjective state there cannot even be so much as a single thought. The very first manifestation of a though is already a process of objectification…………..Creation, then proceeded by a process whereby the Supreme Being brings itself into manifestation……………..

………………The Supreme Being brings fourth the awareness that its identity is the capability of being whatever it chooses to be and it is immortal, and eternal.


From the author of the Metu Neter he is outright telling you that the Supreme Being is not a limited Being.

So why do you teach that the Supreme Being cannot Speak or become authorized Words in a Book?

Even the Dogon speak of The First Word. The Second Word, The Third Word, etc……..
Even though they have a much deeper meaning but you get the basic point.

I think it is those Words that you are trying to destroy and then you can make the move to invent your own word, your own imagination, your own control, which is exactly how the New Testament is manifested.

You stray from the doctrine of your own faith in order to lie against the Old Testament or Holy Scriptures.

Then why don’t you teach only that? Why do you have to teach prejudice against the Old Testament when that is NOT found in the Metu Neter and you have absolutely no resource for doing so?
You stray from the doctrine of your own faith in order to lie against the Old Testament or Holy Scriptures.

Since you have not read Metu Neter in its entirety, you are still speaking out of ignorance.

And picking one page out of the first volume and taking it out of context does not not constitute a thorough knowledge.

Since you have not read Metu Neter in its entirety, you are still speaking out of ignorance.

And picking one page out of the first volume and taking it out of context does not not constitute a thorough knowledge.
So now we are back to you supplying the answers to the original questions of this thread.
Please do so.

Since you have not read Metu Neter in its entirety, you are still speaking out of ignorance.

And picking one page out of the first volume and taking it out of context does not not constitute a thorough knowledge.-SAM

True indeed god...

Plus, it greatly helps one's case for intelligence if they don't mistake "intelligible" for "intelligent"....:bullseye:

Nibs:


You and your gang are already doing that as you expand your membership and start running into more intelligible African Americans. The difference between those intelligible African Americans and those that are not is intelligible African Americans can read and comprehend. The people you have grabbed are those that can read but they don’t comprehend. I am sure you have run into these same types of African Americans in the Servants of Jesus communities. They can rattle off beautiful verses and passages and speak them in a lovely hypnotic tone. But cannot give the deeper meaning of the passages nor have any idea as to its relations to the big picture. That type of mind is the bulk of your membership.


Then why don’t you teach only that? Why do you have to teach prejudice against the Old

Testament when that is NOT found in the Metu Neter and you have absolutely no resource for doing so?


Metu Neter, chapter 6, first paragraph, page 69:
Before creation can began, the Supreme Being must first make objective its qualities of Being (Sphere 0). Note that in the Subjective state there cannot even be so much as a single thought. The very first manifestation of a though is already a process of objectification…………..Creation, then proceeded by a process whereby the Supreme Being brings itself into manifestation……………..

………………The Supreme Being brings fourth the awareness that its identity is the capability of being whatever it chooses to be and it is immortal, and eternal.


From the author of the Metu Neter he is outright telling you that the Supreme Being is not a limited Being.

So why do you teach that the Supreme Being cannot Speak or become authorized Words in a Book?

Even the Dogon speak of The First Word. The Second Word, The Third Word, etc……..
Even though they have a much deeper meaning but you get the basic point.

I think it is those Words that you are trying to destroy and then you can make the move to invent your own word, your own imagination, your own control, which is exactly how the New Testament is manifested.

You stray from the doctrine of your own faith in order to lie against the Old Testament or Holy Scriptures.


The supreme being spoken of in meteu neter is not an ommniipotent god like being. It is speaking to the matter of undiffernaited matter meaning it is unfinished and it can be anything. However it is omminpotent meaning it has the potential to be anything read read and then read again mr producer these concepts lie way before the flesh once again you are mixing cosmonology and religion until you read with an open mind and not looking for points you shall forever be lost

The supreme being spoken of in meteu neter is not an ommniipotent god like being.

Your first sentence is a contradiction to the words I pulled from the Metu Neter.

It describes a state of the Supreme Being that is forever and eternal.

Look maaaaan I played the word twister and word games with the best of them and have grown tired of words that contradict themselves within themselves.


This is your fist statement………..

The supreme being spoken of in meteu neter is not an ommniipotent god like being.

then you say this……..

However it is omminpotent meaning it has the potential to be anything



So basically you ain’t said Jack! All you did was twisted and jacked some words around and then pat yourself on the back.

Come on maaan.

(Music Producer) - The difference between those intelligible African Americans and those that are not is intelligible African Americans can read and comprehend. The people you have grabbed are those that can read but they don’t comprehend. They cannot give the deeper meaning of the passages nor have any idea as to its relations to the big picture.

please take a second to appreciate the irony of your words here.
you are distorting the metu neter to say something it does not. myself and others have explained why your interpretations are incorrect. you have demonstrated an inability to appreciate the deeper understanding of the teachings in the metu neter. even when confronted with direct quotes that directly dismiss the sort of portrayal you are advancing; you stubbornly insist that the metu neter somehow supports your portrayal of god.
you have failed to understand the concepts of the metu neter through reading on your own; you have failed to grasp the concepts when others have attempted to explain them to you...

what other options exist?

(Music Producer) - Then why don’t you teach only that? Why do you have to teach prejudice against the Old Testament when that is NOT found in the Metu Neter and you have absolutely no resource for doing so?

i answered a question based on my understanding of ideas within the metu neter. your allegiance to a book causes you to become personally offended by ideas that contradict and undermine that book.

let's reflect on why:
you do not believe that the bible is symbolic wisdom passed down through the ages meant to convey ideas and an understanding about god. you believe the bible contains the literal words of god, among other things. your beliefs create a mental block where you cannot seriously debate or question the book you cite for much of your evidence.
you don't question the word of god, you have blind faith that the bible contains the unaltered word of god and that blind faith is your only evidence that the bible is the word of god.
noone is prejudiced against the bible; it's simply a book that does not belong on the pedestal on which you've placed it.
a person cannot speak honestly about a book that is incorrectly held in such high esteem without seeming disrespectful; however these comments made about the bible are not made in malice; but only in the spirit of advancing truth and understanding.

The Supreme Being brings fourth the awareness that its identity is the capability of being whatever it chooses to be and it is immortal, and eternal.

(Music Producer) - From the author of the Metu Neter he is outright telling you that the Supreme Being is not a limited Being.

So why do you teach that the Supreme Being cannot Speak or become authorized Words in a Book?

i really love that argument. may i use it as well:
the supreme being is not limited, thus the supreme being must be capable of existing within scooby doo cartoons. the supreme being manifests as none other than scrappy doo; and to deny this is to deny the unlimited potency of the supreme being, scrappy doo.
puppy power!!!

unlimited undifferentiated potential at that stage becomes everything. it isn't one thing. it's scrappy doo, it's this forum, it's the idea of a mystery god even though that mystery god does not exist.

to confine god to some being, withdrawn in some alternate dimension; that periodically needs to fly down and manifest to accomplish things is to put limitations on god. it is the mystery god doctrine that limits god. a god that can only work through prophets and must choose and choose again as his previous choices fail. a god that inspires the creation of religions that ultimately only betray the stated purposes and intents of this god.

realize that it is the mystery god that is limited.
forget this notion of a mystery god and realize where the true limitations and failures lie. not with god, but with man in his attempts to realize his own potential. man who looks to god for a savior when ultimately he only needs saving from himself. man who looks to god for a purpose to life when man is fully equipped to define his own purpose. this is what the metu neter is saying.

(Music Producer) - I think it is those Words that you are trying to destroy and then you can make the move to invent your own word, your own imagination, your own control, which is exactly how the New Testament is manifested.

you claim god is omnipotent, then suggest that i can somehow challenge the will of god or undermine the authority of god.
you claim that god is all present yet suggest it is somehow possible to turn away from god.
it is your portrayal of god that is self-undermining. your ideas of god that betrays the concept of omnipotence.

Sami:

The reason I originally posted this thread is because their were several Metu Neter promoters saying that Africans in Africa practice it today.
That may very well be the reason you posted it, but it does not change the fact that you posted false and misleading statements about the contents of Metu Neter. It is not I misrepresenting,
That's precisely what you're doing I am just trying to get down to the Truth.
I seriously doubt that. In doing so I find several theories and point of views of some members that are NOT supported by the Metu Neter.
So what? That still doesn't mean that vols 1 & 2 say what you claim they do.
With their negative projection they are destroying the authors works.
No they aren't. They're exercising their right of free speech. They may be as wrong as two left feet in their interpretation, or they may be dead on point, but that is their right. What concern is it of yours anyway? You're an Old Testament man, remember?Thank you for being upfront and honest..
You're quite welcome. When are you going to be upfront and honest and stop posting false and misleading statements about what's in the book?
The book should not be used to be the foundation of another Black Panthers or Alkyda or any group that promotes hate.
Why would an Old Testament man care about how someone's else spiritual literature--spiritual literature that you don't even agree with--is being used?From what I read of the Metu Neter it is a book of self-awareness although I disagree with it’s methodology of achieving that self-awareness
If that's what you really think Metu Neter is about, then you have some serious reading comprehension problems.
but nothing in the book is being promoted by members on this board.
If we could for the moment assume that the case, it's still a free and open message board. People have the right to post what they think the essence of the work is, as long as it is done in good faith.
I call that a misrepresentation.
It takes a misrepresenter to know a misrepresenter.
If the Metu Neter is real, true, and authorized by the Supreme BeingWithin the conceptual framework of the system of spiritual cultivation taught in Metu Neter, there is no authorization by any Supreme Being. That's an anthropomorphism that's found in the Sahu religions of the caucrazy's (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam).
people that promote it would not have to lye or increase membership through false pretences as Servants of Jesus did in the days of the Crusades and as they do today.We don’t have to be like them and our religious ideals; if true, will flow and gain membership naturally
On the other hand, if it's not real or true, then people that attack it won't have to "lye" to decrease membership through misrepresenting its contents as Servants of Jesus did in the days of the Crusade and as they do today. If false, it will lose membership and die out naturally.

What I find interesting is how "Medu Neter" proponents speak of "Ra" as the principle "GOD" when in fact "Ra" was a later creation during the early Dynastic Era and even before many Kings described themselves with the title "Son of Ra' an earlier designation was "Son of Ptah".


There may very well be "Medu Neter" proponents out there who speak of "Ra" as the principle "God", but let's be very clear on one thing: the books entitled "Metu Neter" vols 1 & 2 by Ra Un Nefer Amen make no such reference to "Ra".

let me explain further....

Scientifically we can take the root "Ra" or "Rey" (Spanish, meaning "King") and come to recognize many words associated with light, or energy..."Radiation, Radiance, Ray, Radio, Radioactive.

However, speaking of "secret societies", the Masonic concept of the G.A.O.T.U., who is the closest equivalent from the first or second dynastic era?

Who was considered the "OPENER of the Way (The Path)?

Who was considered the "Grand Architect"?

Any resposes that indicate other than "Ptah" prior to the second dynasty I would like exact reference in the Pyramid Texts, Papyrus of Ani or other related SACRED TEXTS.

Sorry...."Metu Neter" volumes 1 and 2 dont meet this criteria...

That's because on the most fundamental level, Metu Neter vols 1 & 2 describe a system of spiritual cultivation, ie., a prescription for how to achieve one's highest potential in life through meditation, ritual, and the use of oracles. What it is not is a book of egyptological trivia ("who is Ra", "who is Ptah?", "who farted the most during the 18th dynasty", etc). To say that "Metu Neter" does not refer to Ptah as the "The Opener of the Way" or the "Grand Architect" is like saying the bible doesn't tell us who won the Super Bowl last year.

Interesting. Several statements here are the reason for my exact departure from the "Metu Neter" as written specifically concerning the reference or lack thereof concerning the "Aten".

The "Aten" was recognized as supreme deity even going back to Hatshepsut. When "Amen" or "Amun" was merely a LOCAL "God", long before the period of Amenhotep IV's reign.

I suggest reading the exact Liturgical reference's of Amenhotep III's period from which Akhenaten was initiated despiteclaims that he was never an initiate.

And again, I as for EXACT reference from the 18th dynasty or earlier as evidence. Not from man-written "religious texts" written some 3400 years later!

If that's the "reason" you "departed" from the Metu Neter, then you missed its aim and purpose by a country mile. Once again, it is not a book of egyptological trivia. It describes a method of spiritual cultivation (self improvement, behavior modification, etc) through the use of meditation, ritual, and the use of oracles. Within the context of Metu Neter vols 1 & 2, whether Amen was a local god or a global god, whether Akhenaten was initiated or not, etc., is neither here nor there. If egyptological trivia is what you're looking to debate, then you're barking up the wrong tree.

As you stated..."ptah is mentioned briefly"....yet, during tha long period from King Menes until the 18th Dynasty "PTAH" was considered the primary Diety among the "initiated" up until the reign of Hatsheptut and the Temple of Denderah.

This was due largely to the fact that what many now refer to as "Khemetic" or "metu neter" as preceeded by the "Memphite Theology" before a power shift into Thebes, leading the the so-called "Thebean Rescension" in which "Amun-Re" became the principal deity among the PRIESTHOOD which rebelled against Akhenaten who actually had sought to reverse THEIR "reforms". This is why he built temples OUTSITE of the proximity of Thebes.

since you have "noticed that the initiates of nile valley high culture (outside of metu neter) tend to focus on narratives where ptah is the central and principal god; an ra an aspect of this god" then my point needs no further elaboration except to note that what this also means is that the language of "metu neter" is NOT as "universal" as alledged, nor can it be considered THE 'root language' but a derivative of the form which PREDATED it.

This is difficult for 'metu neter' proponents to accept because it calls into question other claims concerning the alledged "sole authority" of Ra Un Nefer Amen himself, and the legitimacy of even the reference of ALL AFRICAN PEOPLE as "khemetic" which is why one one hand, "Khemetic" refers to NILE VALLEY High culture centered at Thebes, while "Nubian" actually refers to an EARLIER "Triad" whose root, again, is based in the Congo Basin.

Peace!

For being able to gum-beat on various aspects of egyptological trivia, you get a big "hip-hip-hooray!!" from me, but when you make statements like this:

"...the language of "metu neter" is NOT as "universal" as alledged, nor can it be considered THE 'root language' but a derivative of the form which PREDATED it."

and this:

"This is difficult for 'metu neter' proponents to accept because it calls into question other claims concerning the alledged "sole authority" of Ra Un Nefer Amen himself,

and this

and the legitimacy of even the reference of ALL AFRICAN PEOPLE as "khemetic" which is why one one hand, "Khemetic" refers to NILE VALLEY High culture centered at Thebes, while "Nubian" actually refers to an EARLIER "Triad" whose root, again, is based in the Congo Basin..."

then it lets me know how little understanding you have about what Metu Neter vols 1 & 2 are about. If the truth be told, based on what you've posted so far in this thread, you have NO understanding of what it's about. None. Nada. Zilch. What they are NOT about is making claims that "the language of metu neter" is universal, since no such claim has been made. Nor is it about making claims that "metu neter" is a "root language" that had no predecessors, since no such claim has been made. Likewise, no claim has been made in either of those volumes that Ra Un Nefer Amen is the sole authority of anything. Therefore, the alleged "difficulty" of "metu neter proponents" accepting this little rant about the originality of the language of 'metu neter' or the sole authority of Ra Un Nefer Amen is little more than a figment of a fertile imagination.


Furthermore, considering the short period of the THEBAN era, including the brief 19th dynasty, to now hold this as a reference again to ALL AFRICN PEOPLE is not accepted by MOST Continental Africans and for sure not among "Ethiopians", "Cu****es", or "Sudanese" who were at times subjected to "Khemetic" rule but who also had later ruled over "Khemet".


All I see you doing here (besides showcasing your knowledge of egyptological trivia) is refuting arguments that were never made in Metu Neter vols 1 & 2.

To even assert that "it was practiced by ancient Nubians" is somewhat dishonest "
What's even more dishonest is the false and misleading claim that Ra Un Nefer Amen asserted in his books (vols 1 & 2) that 'metu neter' "was practiced by ancient Nubians." Why you chose to cosign Music Producer's madness is beyond me.

"Nubians" were depicted in "Egyptian" art as "Negroes".

That's white racist egyptological nonsense. The tomb of Ramses III has a table of nations scene in which the so-called egyptians portrayed themselves EXACTLY the same as they portrayed the "Nubians" of their time. Furthermore, the word "negroes" didn't even exist in the Kemetic language. There is NO combination of glyphs that can be translated to mean "negroes". That's a modern day white racist contrivance that was used to facilitate the removal of egypt from Afrika, and Afrikans from egypt.
This is to say that essentially, the modern day "Amenists" (i.e. "medu neter") are a remnant of a religious HIERARCHY which USURPED the "royal bloodline"!!
Who are these modern day "amenists" that you speak of? I have never heard of such.

Ironically, claims that the "Nommo" represent "Neteru" or that the "Dogon" were practiced/or continue to practice "medu neter" or speak the "Mother Tongue" is a total fabrication and complete FALLACY.
It could very well be a total fabrication and a complete FALLACY, but I don't see how Metu Neter could be blamed for it. After all, no such claim is made in either of those volumes. Once again you're barking up the wrong tree.
For one, if the knowledge was actually retained by a "secret society" how could it then be published by a member of the ROSICRUCIAN Order[/i]
!!!
I guess that means it ain't secret no more, eh?

"it's all symbolic"

I am not merely suggesting "the metu neter gets the symbolism wrong"
but there is another explanation written within the written "metu neter" itself

For one, I disagree totally that "it's all symbolic"

LOL!! What symbolism are you referrring to? Please quote directly from "Metu Neter".
The so-called war between Horus and the "Sethians" is not merely symbolic nor is the historical usurpation of the "Memphite"by the "Theban".

There is no war between "Horus" and the Sethians in Metu Neter. "Horus" is a greek corruption of the name "Heru" and is not even used in Metu Neter.
These represent historical shifts in the Balance of power, the centre of which POLITICAL and RELIGIOUS POWER were based and if they were merely "symbolic" why would there be continued efforts to malign the character of Akhenaten to the point that some even condemn him for marrying a "white woman" and labeling "Nefertiti" as such??!!
As far as egyptological trivia is concerned, that's all well and good. Again, Metu Neter is not about egyptological trivia. It describes a system of spiritual cultivation (i.e., behavior modification, self improvement, etc) through the use of meditation, ritual, and the use of oracles.
Brother, in all respect..."getting something wrong" is one thing....destroying "sacred texts" and "plagarizing" is another ball game...
If you think that's bad, we got a couple of guys in this very thread who are misrepresenting current writings and refuting arguments that have never been made.
By the way, who did you see destroying sacred texts and plagiarizing? Can you give us a name and some examples?

Note:

I dont intend to debate any points I raised here.
Kinda hard to debate attacks against arguments that were never made, dontcha think?Folks can deny, refute, or do as they please.
Or they can ROFL, and believe you me, I've been doing plenty of that in this thread.One thing for sure, I have read very thoroughly many posts here by so-called "metu neter" proponents which are filled with so many holes that it is evident to me what happened to "Black people" on a SPIRITUAL level long before the triangular trade.
Could you show some examples of these posts and the holes they contain? Perhaps we could use this as an opportunity to clear up some misunderstandings.And to further highlight an observation.....interestingly it is an older Black nationalist community which seems to refer as "Khemetic" and many of these same individuals run counter to "Hip Hop culture" which COMMONLY refers as "Nubian".......
I have NO doubt that you were trying to make a point here. It's just that I am thoroughly confused as to what it is. I guess it went over my head. Then again, no one ever accused me of being the brightest bulb on the tree.

Kinda hard to debate attacks against arguments that were never made, dontcha think?
Or they can ROFL, and believe you me, I've been doing plenty of that in this thread.
Could you show some examples of these posts and the holes they contain? Perhaps we could use this as an opportunity to clear up some misunderstandings.
I have NO doubt that you were trying to make a point here. It's just that I am thoroughly confused as to what it is. I guess it went over my head. Then again, no one ever accused me of being the brightest bulb on the tree.

Hey Sam:spinstar:

Hey Sam:spinstar:

Hey SiStar!!

We're back from our end of summer break and will be starting our fall classes this Sat & Sun (9/16 @ 10:30 am & 9/17 @ 12:30m). Dew Drop Inn!!

For more info go to www.aaschicago.org

I'm beginning to see a terrible trend, of people attacking the theology of Metu Neter, without actually having conducted a thorough study of the theology prior to doing so.

Some of the accusations made here by more than one person, are just flat-out incorrect, and even a casual reading of both volumes would point this out.

When I set out to debunk DR YORK's so-called "doctrine", I read nearly every book and "scroll" he wrote, so that I would have a thorough understanding of where he was coming from, before I sought to do battle against it.

The anti-Metu Neter proponents here (some I have a high respect for, others I don't)continue to give themselves away in the most tell-tale aspects, when they make all kinds of assertions about the author and his works, virtually none of which are correct.

We all have a perfect, God-given right not to take interest in anything we so choose, but it would behoove us all to at least seek to gain an understanding of that with which we are disagreeing, prior to disagreeing with it.

PEACE

I'm beginning to see a terrible trend, of people attacking the theology of Metu Neter, without actually having conducted a thorough study of the theology prior to doing so.

Some of the accusations made here by more than one person, are just flat-out incorrect, and even a casual reading of both volumes would point this out.

When I set out to debunk DR YORK's so-called "doctrine", I read nearly every book and "scroll" he wrote, so that I would have a thorough understanding of where he was coming from, before I sought to do battle against it.

The anti-Metu Neter proponents here (some I have a high respect for, others I don't)continue to give themselves away in the most tell-tale aspects, when they make all kinds of assertions about the author and his works, virtually none of which are correct.

We all have a perfect, God-given right not to take interest in anything we so choose, but it would behoove us all to at least seek to gain an understanding of that with which we are disagreeing, prior to disagreeing with it.

PEACE
http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44425

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44425

Undertood, Brother Elder.

Does my previous post violate your sentiment as stated above? It sounds like I was simply echoing what you had stated.

PEACE

Undertood, Brother Elder.

Does my previous post violate your sentiment as stated above? It sounds like I was simply echoing what you had stated.

PEACE
no, not at all. i was just interested in getting your views on the other thread.

no, not at all. i was just interested in getting your views on the other thread.

Understood, on my way. :run:

I'm beginning to see a terrible trend, of people attacking the theology of Metu Neter, without actually having conducted a thorough study of the theology prior to doing so.

No, this is not true………
What you are seeing is a trend in questioning the methods being used to gain membership by promoters of the Metu Neter.

When Metu Neter followers amplify their faith through teaching the white man wrote the Old Testament, someone is going to challenge that.

When Metu Neter followers amplify their faith through teaching a white man set on the throne of Egypt before the Roman Occupation, someone is going to challenge that.

When Metu Neter followers amplify their faith through teaching the Hyksos were white people, someone is going to challenge that.

When Metu Neter followers amplify their faith through teaching the white man was the founder of Kemet, someone is going to challenge that.

When Metu Neter followers use web pages that are clearly against Afrocentric philosophy of Kemet, I hope to GOD someone challenges that.


As you can see it is not the Metu Neter that is being questioned but it is your methods of handing over extremely important peaces of our ancestors history to the white man that is being challenged.

I will be the first Negro to stand tall and shout, even scream from the crowed, “A Cracker did not set on the Throne of Egypt until the coming of the Roman Occupation”.

No, this is not true………
What you are seeing is a trend in questioning the methods being used to gain membership by promoters of the Metu Neter.

That's not in fact what I am seeing. Firstly, no one here is attempting to "gain membership".

Except maybe...........You.

When Metu Neter followers amplify their faith through teaching the white man wrote the Old Testament, someone is going to challenge that.

When Metu Neter followers amplify their faith through teaching a white man set on the throne of Egypt before the Roman Occupation, someone is going to challenge that.

When Metu Neter followers amplify their faith through teaching the Hyksos were white people, someone is going to challenge that.

When Metu Neter followers amplify their faith through teaching the white man was the founder of Kemet, someone is going to challenge that.

More falsehoods and fallacies from you.

Firstly, none of us have a "faith". If you truly had an understanding of how Metu Neter works (it's painfully evident, with each subsequent and consecutive post that you make on the subject, that you don't), then you would know that "faith" is immaterial to us, because it's non-exsistent in this particular system of ATR.

Thus, there is nothing to "amplify".

Secondly, just because someone (you) challenges that, does not make that challenge correct, or our perspectives less so. And continuously posting Bible verses is not proof of anything.

When Metu Neter followers use web pages that are clearly against Afrocentric philosophy of Kemet, I hope to GOD someone challenges that.

This is funny, since I just admonished you for doing the very same thing, and instead of reponding to this admonishment, you sought to call me a "cheerleader".

Did you, or did you not used to site the racist theories of white "scholars" such as ROHL and a few others, as "proof" of your beliefs?

True or false?

If true, then you are in no position to admonish or criticize anyone for this, when a good 90% of your ideas come from white people.

I asked you before, and I'll ask you again: show and prove a Black scholar that supports your view of the Hyksos, et-al......present a web-page, a book, a lecture, anything.

Otherwise, keep your false critiques to yourself.

As you can see it is not the Metu Neter that is being questioned but it is your methods of handing over extremely important peaces of our ancestors history to the white man that is being challenged.

#1) Please learn how to spell. A typo here in there is fine, but your statements lose whatever validity they might have, when you can't even perform the the simplest task of syntax placement.

#2) Since it's being increasingly established that you don't in fact know nor understand the nature of Metu Neter as a system, then you are in no position to discern how any "important PIECE of our ancestors' history", certainly as it relates to Metu Neter (which is an "important PIECE of our ancestors' history", in and of itself) is being "handed over".

I will be the first Negro to stand tall and shout, even scream from the crowed, “A Cracker did not set on the Throne of Egypt until the coming of the Roman Occupation”.

Wow, you're a "NEGRO"?? Awesome. :great:

Any conscious Black person worth their weight in knowledge, knows that we are not Negroes, and also knows why we should refrain from calling ourselves such.

But hey, do you. :yo:

Just know that with your actions and statements, from the blatant to the subtle, you continue to tell on yourself.

So by all means, continue........We're listening. :gossip:

Did you, or did you not used to site the racist theories of white "scholars" such as ROHL and a few others, as "proof" of your beliefs?

Yes, I absolutely did and continue to do so. But I do not use their point of view to promote a white man set on the throne of Egypt before the Roman Occupation. What I use from their work is information that shows the connection between Kemet and the Holy Scriptures or Old Testament, the connection that show the Holy Scriptures were written from the works of Akhenaten and highly possibly were actually written by Akhenaten.

Akhenaten was a black African Pharaoh, thus what I spread from information from these white scholars such as Rohl and Osman is the spreading of ancient Black rule, Black presence, Black involvement and African knowledge.

I am currently reading “Lost Worlds of Africa”, author James Wellard in which the author reveals his own prejudice against black people. But as the author discovers more and more of the Fezzan nations his races ideals continue but he cannot reject the overwhelming evidence that he had been lied to about the race of the Garamantes Peoples.

A study was done on the ancient skull of a King of the Garamantes Peoples. Several measurements were taken of the skull. They concluded that the Garamantes and the Tuareg Tribes of today are the exact same people. This would be the Tuareg Peoples inhabiting the Fezzan region today.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=Tuareg&sa=N&tab=wi

Those people are African and due to the rock art and the religion of the Hyksos, I suspect they are the ones that were the Hyksos of Egypt. Also realize the images of them today reflect them after the Roman and Muslim rule. Thus you will see some faces of them that are now mixed.

All of this information that I am showing you about our people was sparked by some white explorers words in a book.

You have to realize that the Dark Skinned people of the earth experienced a Dark Age. While we were in this Dark Age, the white man was recording what he was seeing and the people he was interacting with. Those records reveal a lot of our lost history. Some of them even reveal the lies that several European Historians have told, such as showing Libyans as Caucasian in re-copied Egyptian antiquates.

If you do not know how to take the white mans works and use them against him and reveal his lies, then you need to get out of the business because you are not smart enough to challenge the lies and cultural rape the white man has committed against our race.

Yes, I absolutely did and continue to do so. But I do not use their point of view to promote a white man set on the throne of Egypt before the Roman Occupation. What I use from their work is information that shows the connection between Kemet and the Holy Scriptures or Old Testament, the connection that show the Holy Scriptures were written from the works of Akhenaten and highly possibly were actually written by Akhenaten.


So what?

The person that you are alleging claims against, is allegedly (though I don't agree) doing precisely what you are doing: using siting sources and people who are notoriously racist, and have no interest whatsoever in the academic furtherment of Black people.

You are thus no less guilty than you claim that he is--all the more so, actually.

Just because you pick a portion that interests you, and that you think fits your POV, doesn't alleviate you of your guilt on the issue.

Either follow your own admonishments, and stop siting white people for any reason, or stop admonishing others for doing the very same. It's just that simple.

Every "scholar" you've sited this far, is white. Thus, if you can site them, we can too. You're playing dirty pool, by trying to take from us, the same sources that you use. This is the White man's game at its best (or worst).

Your admonishments are all the more duplicitous, when you NEVER site any info from established Black scholars--something that we do all the time here.

The person that you are alleging claims against, is allegedly (though I don't agree) doing precisely what you are doing: using siting sources and people who are notoriously racist, and ha