Black Relationships : Brothers Are You Ready For your woman? [Archive] - Black People | African Americans

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 01:23 PM

Maybe the key term here is "limited" :). I recall Chris Rock talking about the dreaded "friend zone" but his follow up with how women view male friends is interesting. Often women turn to male friends for comfort when the one they are with is acting up. Isn't this a perfect rebound opportunity? lol :)

It's not that simple though. I personally have not found myself in the alternative scenario that Chris Rock spoke of, with regards to the Friend Zone (that "now you get it every Tuesday" scenario).

Perhaps that's because of my lack of ability to discern a woman's intentions in the first place; I make it my business to let women that I interact with know, that I don't respond well to all those "subtle hints". You're going to have to hit me over the head with whatever your intentions are. :skillet:

I think being friends first means that you have something in common and can talk about more than sex. Sex complicates things. You can start dating someone and have sex with them and then find out you have nothing in common.

Out of curiosity, are you speaking theoretically here, or anecdotally?

Sex only complicates things, when you are looking for more than just sex. If you and your potential partner aren't seeking anything more than that, then it's quite simple. Contrarily, it's the mental and emotional aspects of an involvement that complicates things.

The only thing "complicated" about sex, is figuring out whether or not the 2 of you are sexually compatible (hence, my other thread).

If you have a friend, or even approach someone to date but get to know the person (mind) before the body (physical), you have a better chance of having a long-lasting relationship.

That's true, but only IF that is your intent to begin with.

However, as I've been stating in numerous threads (that I really don't think anyone is listening), my own personal intentions at this point in my life, is to enhance my experiences, in which both of us agree are "limited".

I say once again, I'm not looking for my Queen right now. What I am looking for, is positive, productive, and fulfilling interactions with Sisters, up to and including dating, flirting and intimacy.

These things are something that I have been missing in my life, at least a limited degree. These are short term goals that I would like to accomplish, not only for their own sake, but also because I think that fulfilling short term goals is necessary in order to accomplish the long term ones (in this case being ready for my Queen).

Maybe that's why people say they want to be more than just friends...because I find it hard to believe you can be with someone in a relationship who is not your friend. Many couples refer to each other as best friends.

Agreed, but that does not mean that the relationship is no less complicated. I think there is a fine line between developing into a relationship, and finding oneself in the "Friend Zone".

I also think that only the experience "daters" know how to steer clear of that line.

I wish to become one of those experienced daters.

PEACE

cursed heart

04-07-2006, 01:30 PM

At this point in my life, because I don't feel I've had the most optimum interactions with women, I'd have to say no.

This is why I keep stressing to everyone here, that I would like to have more positive interactions with women, and on a regular basis.

Yet, everyone here seems to think that my "issues" will be somehow solved, when I meet my "Queen".

There are Brothers here who are struggling in their relationships, and they are married. Thus, what good would I be to my Queen, if I can't interact with her properly?

Finding my Queen is not the solution for me (at least, not right now)....However, having more positive interactions with Sisters --including dating, flirting, intimacy, etc is most definitely what I need.

Until I become comfortable with those things, then no, I am not ready for "my woman".

PEACE

I think you're ready, you just haven't met that someone to show you that you are:smooch:

cursed heart

04-07-2006, 01:33 PM

It's not that simple though. I personally have not found myself in the alternative scenario that Chris Rock spoke of, with regards to the Friend Zone (that "now you get it every Tuesday" scenario).

Perhaps that's because of my lack of ability to discern a woman's intentions in the first place; I make it my business to let women that I interact with know, that I don't respond well to all those "subtle hints". You're going to have to hit me over the head with whatever your intentions are. :skillet:

Out of curiosity, are you speaking theoretically here, or anecdotally?

Sex only complicates things, when you are looking for more than just sex. If you and your potential partner aren't seeking anything more than that, then it's quite simple. Contrarily, it's the mental and emotional aspects of an involvement that complicates things.

The only thing "complicated" about sex, is figuring out whether or not the 2 of you are sexually compatible (hence, my other thread).

That's true, but only IF that is your intent to begin with.

However, as I've been stating in numerous threads (that I really don't think anyone is listening), my own personal intentions at this point in my life, is to enhance my experiences, in which both of us agree are "limited".

I say once again, I'm not looking for my Queen right now. What I am looking for, is positive, productive, and fulfilling interactions with Sisters, up to and including dating, flirting and intimacy.

These things are something that I have been missing in my life, at least a limited degree. These are short term goals that I would like to accomplish, not only for their own sake, but also because I think that fulfilling short term goals is necessary in order to accomplish the long term ones (in this case being ready for my Queen).

Agreed, but that does not mean that the relationship is no less complicated. I think there is a fine line between developing into a relationship, and finding oneself in the "Friend Zone".

I also think that only the experience "daters" know how to steer clear of that line.

I wish to become one of those experienced daters.

PEACE

So sex without a relationship, but friendship?
Homey lover friend,no real attachments?
friends with big back ends?
conversation and relations?
I've always pictured you as the relationship type!

uplift19

04-07-2006, 01:40 PM

It's not that simple though.Is anything ever "simple" with you? :laugh:

Perhaps that's because of my lack of ability to discern a woman's intentions in the first place; Most of us are not mind readers, but expect everyone else to read our minds. I think communication is important, but sometimes women like to play games or have some of the romantic notions we were discussing before that prevent them from being forward.

Sex only complicates things, when you are looking for more than just sex. If you and your potential partner aren't seeking anything more than that, then it's quite simple. Contrarily, it's the mental and emotional aspects of an involvement that complicates things.Hmm, I thought things weren't so simple....Sometimes what can start out as "casual" gets feelings involved because of sex. It is not an act always devoid of the "mental and emotional aspects" you speak of.

I say once again, I'm not looking for my Queen right now. What I am looking for, is positive, productive, and fulfilling interactions with Sisters...Well at least you know where you are and what you are/are not ready for (which most people don't even consider).

uplift19

04-07-2006, 01:43 PM

friends with big back ends?
conversation and relations?LOL, you are one funny sister...friends with big back ends??? :laugh: I had only heard of "friends with benefits"....I see we can learn all kinds of things at destee.com

spicybrown

04-07-2006, 01:47 PM

cursed heart

04-07-2006, 01:49 PM

LOL, you are one funny sister...friends with big back ends??? :laugh: I had only heard of "friends with benefits"....I see we can learn all kinds of things at destee.com

Girl laughter is the best medicine:coffee:

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 01:53 PM

So sex without a relationship, but friendship?
Homey lover friend,no real attachments?
friends with big back ends?
conversation and relations?
I've always pictured you as the relationship type!

Oh, I am, but I'm still saying that a relationship is the ends, not the means.

I cannot stress enough, that I don't feel as though I have the proper tools to maintain a relationship with the woman who would one day become my "Queen".

Have you ever "dated" in your youth? Did you ever have "relationships" with men, that you knew was only going to be short term from the onset? Have you ever had "friends with benefits"?

If so, then did you regret any of those involvements? Didn't those involvements teach you something? Didn't they show you how to be a better lover/friend/mate/partner/Queen for when your counterpart comes along?

If so, then why don't I deserve those same experiences? But what I'm telling you here, is that I have not had them. At least, only to a limited degree.

You have to :baby: before you can :run: I really feel as though I missed out on some very important developmental experiences in my earlier years, and here I am in my mid-30's trying to "rediscover" myself.

You posted a thread a while back, asking "at what age does a man settle down?" This is a fair question, but only when a man has had the opportunity to develop himself, for better or worse, under normal social circumstances.

I don't feel that I had the privilege of those circumstances. I'm a grown man, yet when I hear brothers like RED and ISAIAH talk about how to approach women, I look at them like they are speaking a different language, just like a child in the 3rd grade does when someone starts talking about college-level Calculus.

cursed heart

04-07-2006, 01:57 PM

Oh, I am, but I'm still saying that a relationship is the ends, not the means.

I cannot stress enough, that I don't feel as though I have the proper tools to maintain a relationship with the woman who would one day become my "Queen".

Have you ever "dated" in your youth? Did you ever have "relationships" with men, that you knew was only going to be short term from the onset? Have you ever had "friends with benefits"?

If so, then did you regret any of those involvements? Didn't those involvements teach you something? Didn't they show you how to be a better lover/friend/mate/partner/Queen for when your counterpart comes along?

If so, then why don't I deserve those same experiences? But what I'm telling you here, is that I have not had them. At least, only to a limited degree.

You have to :baby: before you can :run: I really feel as though I missed out on some very important developmental experiences in my earlier years, and here I am in my mid-30's trying to "rediscover" myself.

You posted a thread a while back, asking "at what age does a man settle down?" This is a fair question, but only when a man has had the opportunity to develop himself, for better or worse, under normal social circumstances.

I don't feel that I had the privilege of those circumstances. I'm a grown man, yet when I hear brothers like RED and ISAIAH talk about how to approach women, I look at them like they are speaking a different language, just like a child in the 3rd grade does when someone starts talking about college-level Calculus.
Yes and I have learned a great deal!
I do regret that we never met in my twenties!:toast:
Man your twenties are your learning years.
I had a good time but I also shedded alot of tears.
By your 30's you know what you want and need and wont tolerate!

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 01:59 PM

Is anything ever "simple" with you? :laugh:

LOL, you'd actually be surprised. But I do get your point; I think my "simple", is still most people's "complex". I'd hate to think of what my "complex" translates into for most people......Perhaps astronomical?

At any rate, I usually try to stay away from people, when I'm feeling "complex", for their safety and sanity, LOL.

Most of us are not mind readers, but expect everyone else to read our minds. I think communication is important, but sometimes women like to play games or have some of the romantic notions we were discussing before that prevent them from being forward.

All the more reason why I say that I'm not equipped for this stuff. Though I do believe that communication is important, I also see how the subtleties are equally so.

However, that's an aspect that's been missed out of, with regards to my social development.

Do you now see why I say that I'm not ready for my "Queen"?

Hmm, I thought things weren't so simple....Sometimes what can start out as "casual" gets feelings involved because of sex. It is not an act always devoid of the "mental and emotional aspects" you speak of.

I agree, but that's what it turns into, not what it starts out as. If 2 people can openly admit that what they initially want from each other is intimacy, then everything is hunky-dory--until the needs of one or both persons change somewhere along the way (which it often does).

Well at least you know where you are and what you are/are not ready for (which most people don't even consider).

Not only that, but people look at my well-roundedness, and assume that I'm ready, without knowing my background and circumstances. These same people then assume that there is something wrong with me ("pompous, inconfidant, "skurred", etc) when I strive to explain to them, that this is alot easier said than done for me.

PEACE

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 02:01 PM

Yes and I have learned a great deal!
I do regret that we never met in my twenties!:toast:
Man your twenties are your learning years.
I had a good time but I also shedded alot of tears.
By your 30's you know what you want and need and wont tolerate!

Precisely.......So, can you now understand, that my entire 20's years were nearly bereft of these experiences? I feel like I'm just coming into my own, in my mid-30's.

I wouldn't mind both the "good times", as well as the tears, so long as they balance each other out. Thus far, it's more of the latter.

That sort of imbalance does not make for a healthy development, IMO. And that's what I'm longing for.

PEACE

cursed heart

04-07-2006, 02:04 PM

Precisely.......So, can you now understand, that my entire 20's years were nearly bereft of these experiences? I feel like I'm just coming into my own, in my mid-30's.

I wouldn't mind both the "good times", as well as the tears, so long as they balance each other out. Thus far, it's more of the latter.

That sort of imbalance does not make for a healthy development, IMO. And that's what I'm longing for.

PEACE

Cool, so by the time you're 40 you'll be ripened(sp):geek:
Well I tried to wait for you but my eggs have five years only!
I'm not chasing my kids around at 50:shades: (laughing)

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 02:06 PM

Oh, this is fun. Isn't friendship a good basis for a more intimate relationship? Suppose a female friend told you she wanted to take things to a more intimate level. Would you refuse to even try it? If so, why?

Girl were you reading my mind or what,
PS that's what I was trying to pry out of him:)
Friendship is the foundation of a healthy intimate relationship

This question from the both of you is difficult for me to answer, mainly because it's so hypothetical, and otherwise, alien from my experiences.

I could say "yes", but basing my answer off of my current friendships, that answer would be a violation of the frienships that I have, based on those circumstances.

Am I supposed to sleep with somebody's wife, just because we have a solid friendship? :confused:

PEACE

cursed heart

04-07-2006, 03:08 PM

This question from the both of you is difficult for me to answer, mainly because it's so hypothetical, and otherwise, alien from my experiences.

I could say "yes", but basing my answer off of my current friendships, that answer would be a violation of the frienships that I have, based on those circumstances.

Am I supposed to sleep with somebody's wife, just because we have a solid friendship? :confused:

PEACE

No!
Sleeping with platonic friends is a sure way to weaken or end a friendship.
This should always be well thought out.

uplift19

04-07-2006, 05:22 PM

I cannot stress enough, that I don't feel as though I have the proper tools to maintain a relationship with the woman who would one day become my "Queen".
If I may pry, what "tools" do you think you need?

I find it an interesting phenomenon that those with particularly strict and/or religious upbringings end up feeling unequipped to deal with intimate relationships. While for sisters this isn't usually a problem that is as evident as it is with men (mainly because women are waiting for someone to approach them, so their immaturity may not be as readily apparant), I think it true across the board.

I was watching a special on the catholic church and celibacy in the priesthood. One priest explained how growing up as a young boy in a monastary, him and his peers were sexually undeveloped beyond adolescence. They were taught that sex and masturbation were evil and bad, and prayed if they had wet dreams because they thought they were satanic thoughts.

I'm not suggesting you grew up this way Bro. Samurai, but I am suggesting that our attitudes about sex and relationships are affected by how we perceive we 'mature' as teenagers and/or in our twenties. I know many brothers who grew up in religious households who were (and some still are) downright afraid of women. They don't know what to do, and when they realize their peers seem to be more sophisticated than they are they start to overcompensate through some sort of hyperactivity as it relates to the opposite sex.

I don't understand why this is, but I guess it's the same as college theory (education) versus application of knowledge (experience). Just because we know about something doesn't make us mature. That understanding comes through life experience.

At the same time, though, I don't think there's anything wrong with the premise of being with one person your whole life without having "tested the waters." Some people get married as high school sweethearts and stay together forever. Others come to the conclusion they married too young. Either way, relationships (like life) will always change over time and require some hard work. No matter who you think is perfect today, they will not be perfect tomorrow in your sight so you better be willing to be flexible if you plan on staying with anyone for more than a superficial length of time.

SAMURAI36

04-18-2006, 06:00 PM

If I may pry, what "tools" do you think you need?

I find it an interesting phenomenon that those with particularly strict and/or religious upbringings end up feeling unequipped to deal with intimate relationships. While for sisters this isn't usually a problem that is as evident as it is with men (mainly because women are waiting for someone to approach them, so their immaturity may not be as readily apparant), I think it true across the board.

I was watching a special on the catholic church and celibacy in the priesthood. One priest explained how growing up as a young boy in a monastary, him and his peers were sexually undeveloped beyond adolescence. They were taught that sex and masturbation were evil and bad, and prayed if they had wet dreams because they thought they were satanic thoughts.

I'm not suggesting you grew up this way Bro. Samurai, but I am suggesting that our attitudes about sex and relationships are affected by how we perceive we 'mature' as teenagers and/or in our twenties. I know many brothers who grew up in religious households who were (and some still are) downright afraid of women. They don't know what to do, and when they realize their peers seem to be more sophisticated than they are they start to overcompensate through some sort of hyperactivity as it relates to the opposite sex.

I don't understand why this is, but I guess it's the same as college theory (education) versus application of knowledge (experience). Just because we know about something doesn't make us mature. That understanding comes through life experience.

At the same time, though, I don't think there's anything wrong with the premise of being with one person your whole life without having "tested the waters." Some people get married as high school sweethearts and stay together forever. Others come to the conclusion they married too young. Either way, relationships (like life) will always change over time and require some hard work. No matter who you think is perfect today, they will not be perfect tomorrow in your sight so you better be willing to be flexible if you plan on staying with anyone for more than a superficial length of time.

I missed this post before.....It's very relevant to what is being discussed in more than one thread, and thus I shall respond to it shortly.

PEACE

river

04-29-2006, 09:09 PM

In my limited experiences with women, I've found that an interaction that is based heavily on a "friendship", will usually end up staying there.

That is what is known as the "friend zone". I have found myself there many times, and it's not a place that I wish to be in with women--certainly not every woman that I meet.

PEACE
This reminds me of an old thread
http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39997

SAMURAI36

04-29-2006, 11:54 PM

Thank you Sheqhet, for raising this back to my attention; I had forgotten that I owed Sister UPLIFT a response.

If I may pry, what "tools" do you think you need?

I've come to realize that I don't have the patience and social interaction skills that I feel are necessary to deal with African American women, by and large.

Honestly, I don't think I have what it takes to gain a Sister's interest, and maintain it.

I find it an interesting phenomenon that those with particularly strict and/or religious upbringings end up feeling unequipped to deal with intimate relationships. While for sisters this isn't usually a problem that is as evident as it is with men (mainly because women are waiting for someone to approach them, so their immaturity may not be as readily apparant), I think it true across the board.

Just because they don't approach men directly, doesn't mean that their their level of maturity is not apparent, and not blatantly so.

I've come to realize that women in general (particularly Black women) do not seem to do a whole lot of personal introspection. (NOTE: this statement was NOT directed specifically at you.

For those on the outside looking in (especially us Brothers), we see the immaturity of women all the time: dressing a certain way, yet claiming to want to be treated in a different manner is one of the most obvious. And, not approaching a man is a primary example of strict religious values. Where else was such a practice gleaned, outside of religion?

One does not have to be a strict or devout religious believer, to still be victim to the psychology of religion.

I'm not suggesting you grew up this way Bro. Samurai, but I am suggesting that our attitudes about sex and relationships are affected by how we perceive we 'mature' as teenagers and/or in our twenties. I know many brothers who grew up in religious households who were (and some still are) downright afraid of women. They don't know what to do, and when they realize their peers seem to be more sophisticated than they are they start to overcompensate through some sort of hyperactivity as it relates to the opposite sex.

None of this applies to me. If anything, it's just the opposite for me.

Just to give a bit of background:

I grew up in a Caribbean household of mostly women. I am an only child, and with the excption of the husbands of my aunts and one other male cousin, I was the only male in my maternal family for years.

However, I bore witness to strong women, who were not only in control of their lives, but also in control of their sexuality.

I grew up seeing Black women interact with the men in their immediate circles totally differently than what I have experienced and seen in my late teens and continuing adult life.

These women were not intimidated by men, and at the same time, they did not try to intimidate men, the way I see many Sisters these days doing. If any of them had an interest in a man, then they were not afraid to show it.

Regarding sexuality, and my view of women regarding it, I had become very used to the female body from an aesthetic perspective very early on in my youth. Since I had come from a much older family (my mother was in her mid 50's when she had me...........That's right, you read that correctly, it wasn't a typo), all the women treated me as if I was each their son, irregardless if I was just a nephew, a cousin, or even just a neighbor.

It was nothing to see women's body parts as they strolled non-chalantly through the house, or to hear them talk about their sexuality, ranging from what they find pleasurable, to menstruation, to female health problems, to breatfeeding and the like.

Again, the contrast from my adult life; this is why I cannot understand why so many Black women in this day and time are so uncomfortable with their bodies--espeically as it pertains to sex.

The same women that are willing to bear it all (a la the "BOOTY AND BOOBS" thread) in public, are the same ones who are scrambling to try to cover themselves up in shame when you have them alone.

I personally think that my childhood experiences prepared me for the most natural interactions that a man could have with a woman.....

The problem is, none of the interactions I've been having are anything but natural. And I'm not just talking about the sexual aspects either; communication, gender roles, mundane interactions, values.....None of this is the same as what I knew from growing up.

And I am very ill-prepared to handle it.

I don't understand why this is, but I guess it's the same as college theory (education) versus application of knowledge (experience). Just because we know about something doesn't make us mature. That understanding comes through life experience.

What about a different college perspective: when the student embarks on a particular cirriculum, and by the time he finishes his school (4-8 years), the dynamics of his field has changed so much, that his education is now obsolete?

At the same time, though, I don't think there's anything wrong with the premise of being with one person your whole life without having "tested the waters."

No, there's not. No moreso, than there is with "testing the waters".

Some people get married as high school sweethearts and stay together forever. Others come to the conclusion they married too young. Either way, relationships (like life) will always change over time and require some hard work. No matter who you think is perfect today, they will not be perfect tomorrow in your sight so you better be willing to be flexible if you plan on staying with anyone for more than a superficial length of time.

Forgive me for saying, but much of this sounds like the "college theory" that you previously mentioned; a very idealistic and stylized view of relationships, especially in these days and times, and even mroe especially considering the poor social development of our people (both Brothers and Sisters).

How much of your perspective is gleaned from actual experience?

PEACE

uplift19

04-30-2006, 01:22 AM

I've come to realize that I don't have the patience and social interaction skills that I feel are necessary to deal with African American women, by and large. Honestly, I don't think I have what it takes to gain a Sister's interest, and maintain it.Do you think that is linked to the childhood experiences you mentioned, seeing as you see them as being so vastly different from your adulthood? Or, are you (as I think you may have stated, I don't recall exactly) waiting for a sister to gain your interest?

Just because they don't approach men directly, doesn't mean that their their level of maturity is not apparent, and not blatantly so.Agreed, but some that may seem mature on the surface may prove to be the opposite upon further investigation.

And, not approaching a man is a primary example of strict religious values. Where else was such a practice gleaned, outside of religion?Gender roles in general, many of which are societal and cultural. Of course religion plays a huge role, but I don't think it is the sole reason for this phenomenon. There is also personality--many people (not just women) are just shy in the first place (like myself) and probably would never approach a person.

I grew up seeing Black women interact with the men in their immediate circles totally differently than what I have experienced and seen in my late teens and continuing adult life.So maybe my "go back to the islands" advice isn't so unfounded? :)

I personally think that my childhood experiences prepared me for the most natural interactions that a man could have with a woman.....

The problem is, none of the interactions I've been having are anything but natural. And I'm not just talking about the sexual aspects either; communication, gender roles, mundane interactions, values.....None of this is the same as what I knew from growing up.

And I am very ill-prepared to handle it.
Then maybe your childhood experiences didn't prepare you as well as you may have thought...:?: or at least not for the women you've been dealing with

What about a different college perspective: when the student embarks on a particular cirriculum, and by the time he finishes his school (4-8 years), the dynamics of his field has changed so much, that his education is now obsolete?Then I would say the student probably went to the wrong school, and should be seeking an adequate education at this point to prepare him/her for reality.

Forgive me for saying, but much of this sounds like the "college theory" that you previously mentioned; a very idealistic and stylized view of relationships, especially in these days and times, and even mroe especially considering the poor social development of our people (both Brothers and Sisters).Sure, it's oversimplified because it's a general statement. The more specific, the more complicated. Some things are cliche' because they are just true.

How much of your perspective is gleaned from actual experience?I have a mix of experience and knowledge as I would imagine most people do. I am not sure how to quantify that, but like anything else being in a relationship is a choice. I have made several that I do not regret, but have learned from.

Our parents are all of our first teachers about relationships, as you mentioned your own childhood environment. I have had my fair share of experience, and have also learned from others. I think most of us glean our perspectives from what we see others go through and what we ourselves experience in our own relationships.The fault in observation I have seen, is that while some may view a particular relationship as good from the outside, it may be hell at home. I have been on both sides of the equation. For that reason, I try not to look too deeply into someone else's relationship because what works for them doesn't necessarily work for me.

SAMURAI36

04-30-2006, 01:59 AM

Do you think that is linked to the childhood experiences you mentioned, seeing as you see them as being so vastly different from your adulthood? Or, are you (as I think you may have stated, I don't recall exactly) waiting for a sister to gain your interest?

I'm not exact what (or IF) you're implying here, but I don't think there was anything wrong with the way I was brought up. Perhaps I am biased in my way of thinking, but I have yet to find anything wrong with people--especially women--being good communicators, and at peace with their bodies and their sexuality.

Can you?

My predicament is akin to packing your luggage for vacation with bikinis, sandals, flip-flops andwhat-not, only to arrive at your destination to find that it's engulfed in a snow-storm.

And, to yet again clarify, it's not that I'm necessarily waiting for women to gain my interest, or approach me. I would actually like for there to be a share responsibility on the part of both genders.

And, I actually wouldn't mind approaching women all the time, if the result that I received for my efforts were positive all, or at least most of the time.

But they aren't, and therein lies the problem. :(

Agreed, but some that may seem mature on the surface may prove to be the opposite upon further investigation.

Doesn't this negate your previous statement:

While for sisters this isn't usually a problem that is as evident as it is with men (mainly because women are waiting for someone to approach them, so their immaturity may not be as readily apparant)

I don't want to justify women's immaturity in that manner, especially if the same logic does not apply to men. One can only judge maturity by what one sees.

A truly mature person (male or female) makes every best effort to make sure their actions appears mature. This safe-guarding is in fact intrinsic to very concept of maturity.

Gender roles in general, many of which are societal and cultural. Of course religion plays a huge role, but I don't think it is the sole reason for this phenomenon. There is also personality--many people (not just women) are just shy in the first place (like myself) and probably would never approach a person.

Agreed.

So maybe my "go back to the islands" advice isn't so unfounded? :)

Uhmmm, since when was this "your advice"? I've been saying this for as long as I've been on this site.

Besides, I seem to recall you saying that the Islands may not be all that different......Something about a friend of yours being Apostlic, from the Virgin Islands and all.

Then maybe your childhood experiences didn't prepare you as well as you may have thought...:?: or at least not for the women you've been dealing with

They prepared me quite well, just not for this particular society and culture, and especially for the region that I currently live in.

But, that's what I'd said in the first place.

Then I would say the student probably went to the wrong school, and should be seeking an adequate education at this point to prepare him/her for reality.

Again, how much of this is based on experience?

Both the medical and technology fields negate this. Because there is so much rapid development in both, institutions are opting for certifications in much of both, instead of degrees.

It's pointless to try to go through an 8-year cirriculum for I.S., and my mother was a nurse; if she were alive today, I know for a fact that she would not get very far with what she knew when she died (which was nearly 2 decades ago).

And even on a far more rudimentary level, was what you learned when you were in the 7th grade, the same as what they are learning in that same grade now?

What my family prepared me for, was for the time, climate and region in which we lived. I'm not a parent, but I still imagine that it would be difficult to raise a child in the here-and-now, while trying to account for how life will be 2 whole decades from now.

Sure, it's oversimplified because it's a general statement. The more specific, the more complicated. Some things are cliche' because they are just true.

That's a huge assumption to try to take for granted. Some cliche's are also based on stereotypes.

Nearly every "high-school sweetheart" couple I know is in marital or relationship crisis.

Now, if you are speaking about the "high-school sweethearts" of yester-year (that golden generation of yore), then I'd be inclined to agree, except that just points to the point I just made, about some ideals becoming obsolete with the times.

I know for a fact that 65% of marriages didn't end in divorce back then, as they do now.

I'm sure my mother and family were hoping that I would have dating and married a Caribbean woman, which is what they were obviously preparing me for.

But alas, my Mother returned to the Essence, and alot of things about my life changed :cry: and now I'm struggling to play catch-up.

I have a mix of experience and knowledge as I would imagine most people do.

Again, this is something not to assume, and I'm sure that some part of you realizes this, as per your college statement in the first place.

I am not sure how to quantify that, but like anything else being in a relationship is a choice. I have made several that I do not regret, but have learned from.

I too am unsure of how to quantify this, given that you tend to guard your age, background and personal history very closely.

I often feel like, when it come to you and me, I am on the couch, and you are sitting behind the desk, when something tells me that, in some scenarios, the roles should be reversed.

But I digress.......

Our parents are all of our first teachers about relationships, as you mentioned your own childhood environment. I have had my fair share of experience, and have also learned from others. I think most of us glean our perspectives from what we see others go through and what we ourselves experience in our own relationships.The fault in observation I have seen, is that while some may view a particular relationship as good from the outside, it may be hell at home. I have been on both sides of the equation. For that reason, I try not to look too deeply into someone else's relationship because what works for them doesn't necessarily work for me.

I am rather lost, as to how this pertains not only the specific statement that you quoted from me, but to my sentiment expressed overall?

Who else's relationship history save my own, have I been speaking about here? :confused:

PEACE

Eric Bell

04-30-2006, 01:48 PM

Have you ever "dated" in your youth? Did you ever have "relationships" with men, that you knew was only going to be short term from the onset? Have you ever had "friends with benefits"?

What exacty are "friends with benefits"???

SAMURAI36

04-30-2006, 01:57 PM

What exacty are "friends with benefits"???

A man and woman who share intimacy with each other, under the auspices of a friendship.

Eric Bell

04-30-2006, 01:59 PM

Eric Bell

04-30-2006, 02:27 PM

So sex without a relationship, but friendship?

Can you clarify this for me??? I want to know what this means!!

Eric Bell

04-30-2006, 02:31 PM

Homey lover friend,no real attachments?

What exactly is this???

Eric Bell

04-30-2006, 02:34 PM

friends with big back ends?

Does this mean having female friends(PLATONIC female friends) with big butts???

Eric Bell

04-30-2006, 02:37 PM

conversation and relations?
I've always pictured you as the relationship type!

Aren't all the above things that I have quoted you saying part of a relationship?!!!

Eric Bell

04-30-2006, 02:45 PM

Is there anybody that post in this thread right now that is currently employing a "Friends with Big Back Ends" policy or a "Friends with Benefits" policy in their lives right now???

If so... what do get out of this?!!?

PEACE!!!!!!

SAMURAI36

04-30-2006, 03:12 PM

Brother, how's about posting all your Q's into one thread.

They are easier to handle that way.

Can you explain exactly what this "now you get it every Tuesday" scenario is???

It's from Chris Rock's stand-up comedy special. It's too long of a skit to go into here; I suggest watching it for yourself. Chris Rock gives a very pertinent view of Black relationships.

What exactly is this???

Same thing as "friends with benefits".

Can you clarify this for me??? I want to know what this means!!

See above.

Does this mean having female friends(PLATONIC female friends) with big butts???

See above.

Aren't all the above things that I have quoted you saying part of a relationship?!!!

Yes and no. There is a difference between a committed, monogamous relationship, and a platonic frienship with relationship qualities.

Relationships are a complex thing, and sometimes the lines are blurred. It's hard to fathom any of this, unless you have actually been in one/some of these scenarios yourself. There is no real way to truly quantify it, by strict verbalization.

Is there anybody that post in this thread right now that is currently employing a "Friends with Big Back Ends" policy or a "Friends with Benefits" policy in their lives right now???

If so... what do get out of this?!!?

I am not in one now, but I have been before, and it can be quite fulfilling, up until the point where one of the participants wants more than the other. At that point it can become rather confusing and stressful.

However, given the path that my life is leading in currently, I honestly wouldn't mind entering into such a scenario again, given the right person and circumstances.

PEACE

uplift19

05-01-2006, 12:05 AM

I'm not exact what (or IF) you're implying here Is there a reason you are constantly searching for implications behind what is explicitly stated?

And, to yet again clarify, it's not that I'm necessarily waiting for women to gain my interest, or approach me. I would actually like for there to be a share responsibility on the part of both genders.So how does this work on a practical basis? Doesn't one party have to express interest first? I

Doesn't this negate your previous statement:Not at all, because you neglected to bold the following few words that completed the thought: "While for sisters this isn't usually a problem that is as evident as it is with men (mainly because women are waiting for someone to approach them, so their immaturity may not be as readily apparant)." This does not conflict with my statement here, and I am not attempting to justify immaturity. Just stating a reason it may not be as apparant.

Uhmmm, since when was this "your advice"? I've been saying this for as long as I've been on this site.

Either way, maybe that is your solution. Move to one of the islands... (http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=417734&postcount=192)

They prepared me quite well, just not for this particular society and culture, and especially for the region that I currently live in.See above.

Again, how much of this is based on experience?I am not sure how the answer to your simile about school and your situation can be based on experience, but...

Both the medical and technology fields negate this. Because there is so much rapid development in both, institutions are opting for certifications in much of both, instead of degrees.Not true, as I stated one would probably have to seek education beyond what they wasted their time in school learning (i.e. certifications) if they are ill-equipped for the "real world."

And even on a far more rudimentary level, was what you learned when you were in the 7th grade, the same as what they are learning in that same grade now?No, they are learning far less.

Nearly every "high-school sweetheart" couple I know is in marital or relationship crisis.That's not my experience, and "nearly every" is not "every."

Now, if you are speaking about the "high-school sweethearts" of yester-year (that golden generation of yore), then I'd be inclined to agree, except that just points to the point I just made, about some ideals becoming obsolete with the times. I know for a fact that 65% of marriages didn't end in divorce back then, as they do now.Just because previous generations valued marriage more and may have stayed married longer or in higher numbers does not mean they were not also in "relationship crisis." Women today just have more options, and aren't as defined by their marraiges as they once were. Far less women tolerate cheating and men who spend no time at home (because they are "working") than did in the "yester-year" you speak of.

I'm sure my mother and family were hoping that I would have dating and married a Caribbean woman, which is what they were obviously preparing me for. But alas, my Mother returned to the Essence, and alot of things about my life changed :cry: and now I'm struggling to play catch-up.So since you've stated you don't think you have the patience/skill necessary to have a long-term relationship with a Black woman at this point, how are you catching up exactly? I mean, besides recognizing the reality you are faced with, what steps have you taken to "play catch-up"? And if you feel you were "prepared" for a Caribbean woman, why not seek out one? There is more I have in mind that I feel relates here, but I will keep it to myself for fear of putting you "on the couch."

Again, this is something not to assume, and I'm sure that some part of you realizes this, as per your college statement in the first place.Not exactly. The whole college reference (which you started with the whole school example) does not mention experience at all, just knowledge or lack therof.

I too am unsure of how to quantify this, given that you tend to guard your age, background and personal history very closely.For reasons I believe (if memory serves me correctly) I already shared with you. Either way, unless I go into a detailed history of every relationship I have been in and compare that with what I have learned from others, there is no way to answer your question with any accuracy.

I often feel like, when it come to you and me, I am on the couch, and you are sitting behind the desk, when something tells me that, in some scenarios, the roles should be reversed.

But I digress.......I'm not trying to come off like some psychotherapist here, but you do ask for solutions or either admittance of responsibility from certain parties on this particular topic. And out of curiosity, in which "scenarios" do you feel I am in need of assistance with my mental health :confused:?

I am rather lost, as to how this pertains not only the specific statement that you quoted from me, but to my sentiment expressed overall? Who else's relationship history save my own, have I been speaking about here? :confused:You asked me how much of my perspective is based on personal experience, and I tried to answer to the best of my ability, considering I cannot give you any sort of percentage breakdown or anything.

SAMURAI36

05-01-2006, 11:00 AM

Is there a reason you are constantly searching for implications behind what is explicitly stated?

Besides the fact that you omit huge amounts of statements that I made, which in every succeeding response only serves to take away from my perspective, ultimately invalidating it (such as you just did here).......

But specifically regarding these relationship discussions, there always seems to be this unspoken notion amongst the women here--even amongst some of the most enlightened ones--that it all boils down to everything being the man's fault.

Meaning, whatever is wrong with the woman, her problems in her life, her issues, her plights, challenges, etc is the man's fault. However, whatever problems, issues, etc that a man has, it's his own fault.

The sentiment seems to continue to be, "well he is the man, afterall". Since when did being a man/male come to mean being untennable and infallible? When did men stop being human? The notion of making the male the exclusive equivolent to God needs to be done away with.

So how does this work on a practical basis? Doesn't one party have to express interest first?

It's beyond simple: both men and women need to take responsibility for their personal happiness and fulfillment, as it pertains to social interactions with the opposite sex. There has been such an imbalance to this (for decades, centuries, and even millenia long), that this imbalance has become its own psychosis.

The notion that a man is supposed to "take care of everything" is extremely antiquated, and downright stupid.

Not at all, because you neglected to bold the following few words that completed the thought:

Something I've noticed that you do as well.

"While for sisters this isn't usually a problem that is as evident as it is with men (mainly because women are waiting for someone to approach them, so their immaturity may not be as readily apparant)." This does not conflict with my statement here, and I am not attempting to justify immaturity. Just stating a reason it may not be as apparant.

All the more to my point: their not approaching men (for many reasons) is in fact a clear indicator of the lack of said maturity, it doesn't serve to conceal it. Refer back to my statements above, as to the reasons why.

See above.

Just because you restated (albeit in a very oversimplified way) what has been my sentiment all along, doesn't equate it to being "your advice".

I say "oversimplified", because there are factors that you are not seeing at work here.

I ultimately recognize going to the Caribbean, Africa, the South Pacific, Central/South America, and other places as very viable options and alternatives to my predicament with AA Black women in this society. However, because of some things on my end that prevent me from moving to do so.

If it were that simple, I would have moved there a long time ago.

In the meantime, the next best option for me, is to return to a large Metropolitan area, which would possibly house a sufficient number of women from these places, by which to better choose from. This is in fact, something that I am very close to doing at present.

Also, in keeping up with the current trends of the Caribbean, I've begun to notice a slow but steadily sweeping change in the social dynamic. With each succeeding generation, and with the influx of AA culture into the Caribbean (by way of media), the situation is slowly becoming less and less optimal.

I'm noticing that my options, though present, are slowly running out; I'd better make some decisions if I expect to have anything remotely close to what I desire, lest I wait until my next incarnation onto this plane for it. :(

I am not sure how the answer to your simile about school and your situation can be based on experience, but...

Not true, as I stated one would probably have to seek education beyond what they wasted their time in school learning (i.e. certifications) if they are ill-equipped for the "real world."

So then, what forms of "education" should they learn, to prepare them for this "real world", beyond what they've been taught (speaking from the analogy, as well as the specific topic here)?

No, they are learning far less.

Even though I understand what you're saying, this is still not correct.

I am speaking strictly about the cirriculums, and the level of advancement.
I don't know how old you are (an issue here that I'll address shortly), but when I was in the 7th grade, the highest form of math we learned in that grade was geometry. Now, I've heard of 7th graders learning pre-Calc.

So unless you were learning Astral physics during your 7th grade schooling, I doubt you were learning more then, than these kids are learning (or at least, are being expected to learn) now.

This further expounded analogy only further serves my point: society was different back then, and thus the learning curve was different from then to now.

That's not my experience, and "nearly every" is not "every."

Again, we are weighing the benefits of significance, in reference to numbers. And again, the implication of one person's experience(s) negating or outweighing those of another's.

Just because previous generations valued marriage more and may have stayed married longer or in higher numbers does not mean they were not also in "relationship crisis."

No where within my sentiment, was such an implication.

Women today just have more options, and aren't as defined by their marraiges as they once were. Far less women tolerate cheating and men who spend no time at home (because they are "working") than did in the "yester-year" you speak of.

You're proving, like, 3 of my previous points with this one statement.

So since you've stated you don't think you have the patience/skill necessary to have a long-term relationship with a Black woman at this point, how are you catching up exactly?

I didn't say I was catching up, I said:

Essence, and alot of things about my life changed and now I'm struggling to play catch-up.

I mean, besides recognizing the reality you are faced with, what steps have you taken to "play catch-up"?

By recognizing my problem, my shortcomings as a result, evaluating my options, attempting to enhance my experiences towards successful endeavors, gain/share information, etc.

What other methods, besides these, would you recommend?

And if you feel you were "prepared" for a Caribbean woman, why not seek out one?

Oversimplification, yet again. How many Caribbean women do you know in the South? Or any, that are single, that live in the US?

There is more I have in mind that I feel relates here, but I will keep it to myself for fear of putting you "on the couch."

I'll address this point in junction with another one in just a moment.

Not exactly. The whole college reference (which you started with the whole school example) does not mention experience at all, just knowledge or lack therof.

I believe you missed my entire point of the school analogy.

There are some disciplines that remain constant, against one's school in the field of that discipline.

With my being an English major, there is not much about the language and mechanics of language that has changed from the time I first enrolled, to the time I graduated. And even up to now. People don't enter into the realm of education, thinking or realizing that their knowledge in their field of expertise will have expired or become obsolete by the time they finish........Otherwise, I'm sure many of those people would rethink the validity of spending time, mental/intelllectual effort, and HUGE financial resources to that end.

Likewise, I didn't expect the values that my family taught me to be antiquated by the time I was ready to live those values.

For reasons I believe (if memory serves me correctly) I already shared with you.

Yes, I vaguely recall this. But with that vague recollection, is also the vague recollection that I have of feeling like your reasonings (whatever they were, I don't recall them specifically) to not making sense. While I can't in all fairness pressure you into divulging information about yourself, I'm sure you're smart enough to realize the disadvantage that it puts people in, when engaged in discussion with you.

Especially when others are ready to divulge this info at least on some level, and you seem to have no qualms with critiquing it at your leisure.

Either way, unless I go into a detailed history of every relationship I have been in and compare that with what I have learned from others, there is no way to answer your question with any accuracy.

No one is asking for detailed history of anything; letting folk know how old you are, and what region of the planet you reside gives infinitely useful information, in context to your ideals, perspectives, background, etc.

Otherwise, alot of what you say, just becomes abstract, and/or hypothetical, and difficult to take seriously.

I'm not trying to come off like some psychotherapist here, but you do ask for solutions or either admittance of responsibility from certain parties on this particular topic. And out of curiosity, in which "scenarios" do you feel I am in need of assistance with my mental health :confused:?

The problem being, you seem to be psycho-analyzing, while not seeming to be empathizing. It's difficult to administer to someone, without having a level of empathy with the person being administered to.

Alot of what you have said, comes off callous and indifferent; this would be fine if we were talking about the origins of Kemet or the struggles of humanity in the Mesolithic era.

But, we are talking about an individual's feelings, and the struggles therewith.

I simply think that a better "bed-side manner" is in order here. For example, I recall in another thread adjacent to this one, where you compared my situation to your friend's, in saying that mine is more or less "someone who wants to have sex just because he's in his 30's".

Not only is this a most incorrect assessment, but it's incorrectness stems from what seems to be the lack of empathy to the situation.

I suppose you could argue that you are not required to have empathy to a person you don't know, just in order to discuss the topic, but doing so only diminishes any validity your perspective might have.

You asked me how much of my perspective is based on personal experience, and I tried to answer to the best of my ability, considering I cannot give you any sort of percentage breakdown or anything.

But you can give what you have for whatever reason refused to give thus far. I don't know if you've ever been in a relationship, or if you even want one, and if so, of what sort. I also don't know if you're 21 or 41. I don't know what kind of family life you've had, or anything. I really don't know anything about UPLIFT19, beyond the ideologies that she speaks of......All of which increasingly becomes reminiscent of a SONDUKU game.

In employing both my college and psychologist analogies simultaneously, I don't think anyone would seek "counseling" from someone who's experience and knowledge are not up to the task of the scenario for which counseling is being sought.

One can get "street-corner advice" from anywhere. If that's all that this is, then I stand corrected, though I never would have thought so, given the wrapping of intelligentsia that it comes in.

PEACE

uplift19

05-01-2006, 01:39 PM

Besides the fact that you omit huge amounts of statements that I made, which in every succeeding response only serves to take away from my perspective, ultimately invalidating it (such as you just did here).......I only do so to save space, not to invalidate anything.

But specifically regarding these relationship discussions, there always seems to be this unspoken notion amongst the women here--even amongst some of the most enlightened ones--that it all boils down to everything being the man's fault (truncated).This is not my view...

It's beyond simple: both men and women need to take responsibility for their personal happiness and fulfillment, as it pertains to social interactions with the opposite sex. There has been such an imbalance to this (for decades, centuries, and even millenia long), that this imbalance has become its own psychosis.

The notion that a man is supposed to "take care of everything" is extremely antiquated, and downright stupid.I don't disagree with any of this...

Something I've noticed that you do as well.Not quite. Again, I don't see the need to repost your entire post and some things are just informational and I do not have a response for every word. You can see it as taking your words out of context, but I'm just trying to save space.

All the more to my point: their not approaching men (for many reasons) is in fact a clear indicator of the lack of said maturity, it doesn't serve to conceal it. Refer back to my statements above, as to the reasons why.Perhaps in your view, but since we both agree we are in a society that views men as the only assertive party in a relationship then a woman not approaching a man may not be viewed as immature at all.

Just because you restated (albeit in a very oversimplified way) what has been my sentiment all along, doesn't equate it to being "your advice".I have not read every single post of yours so I would not know what your sentiment has been "all along." If you don't want to call it my "advice" they are my words.

In the meantime, the next best option for me, is to return to a large Metropolitan area, which would possibly house a sufficient number of women from these places, by which to better choose from. This is in fact, something that I am very close to doing at present.OK...so it seems you have your solution.

So then, what forms of "education" should they learn, to prepare them for this "real world", beyond what they've been taught (speaking from the analogy, as well as the specific topic here)?This was answered in the analogy as additional certifications that may be necessary for those fields. I have also addressed previously how this relates to relationships in a broader sense in the community as a whole. There are many organizations and professionals dedicated to helping people, speficially Black people, better function within relationships.

Even though I understand what you're saying, this is still not correct.Well then let me be clear, I live in Maryland and the public schools have worsened and the expectations are clearly lower now. I was learning pre-calc in the 6th grade, but there are several different levels within schools ranging from special ed to gifted classes. Even still, the school system itself has lowered the requirements to pass and ultimately graduate. They are clearly less prepared.

Again, we are weighing the benefits of significance, in reference to numbers. And again, the implication of one person's experience(s) negating or outweighing those of another's.Obviously we have different experiences which lead to different viewpoints.

No where within my sentiment, was such an implication. You're proving, like, 3 of my previous points with this one statement.I was making a statement along the lines of your "times they are a changin'" theme here. I am not trying to be disagreeable, as it seems we do agree. I just wanted to point out that people had different reasons for staying married then that are not relevant today. I believe this has more to do with the divorce rate (with no actual statistics on why people divorce) than relationship troubles.

By recognizing my problem, my shortcomings as a result, evaluating my options, attempting to enhance my experiences towards successful endeavors, gain/share information, etc. What other methods, besides these, would you recommend?I do not feel a response is required here, since in your view my perspective is hard to take seriously and invalid.

Oversimplification, yet again. How many Caribbean women do you know in the South? Or any, that are single, that live in the US?I don't live in the South, and I don't have that type of data. I think there is futility in trying to discuss this "issue" in general without making simplified statements. I have stated time and time again that in my view, relationships are complicated and personal.

I believe you missed my entire point of the school analogy. (truncated)I believe I do understand your point. I do think there are some principles of relationships that are constant, like the basic one we hear all the time and I can personally attest to (based on my experience, of course) which is communication. As this back and forth I am having with you right now proves to cause all types of problems if it is ineffective.

Yes, I vaguely recall this. But with that vague recollection, is also the vague recollection that I have of feeling like your reasonings (whatever they were, I don't recall them specifically) to not making sense. While I can't in all fairness pressure you into divulging information about yourself, I'm sure you're smart enough to realize the disadvantage that it puts people in, when engaged in discussion with you.Why would you have to be at an advantage? Unless we're using the information for personal attacks in our discussions, what value does a wealth of personal information posted on the Internet have?

Especially when others are ready to divulge this info at least on some level, and you seem to have no qualms with critiquing it at your leisure.I did not think engaging in discussion was a critique of you or anyone else.

No one is asking for detailed history of anything;Again, this was in response to your question about "how much" of my perspective is based on personal experience. This question is just not possible to answer in my view.

letting folk know how old you are, and what region of the planet you reside gives infinitely useful information, in context to your ideals, perspectives, background, etc. Otherwise, alot of what you say, just becomes abstract, and/or hypothetical, and difficult to take seriously.I am not sure how useful it is, as generally people take this information and make assumptions or judgments that are unfounded. Ageism, sexism, and other -isms cause people not to take each other seriously based on their biases. You don't have to take me seriously, as that is your perrogative. I don't know why you would take something as hypothetical esp. when I have stated that my perspective is in part based on my personal experiences and that of others I know, which I have gone into some detail about.

Just as there was a perception that I was male, for reasons I am still not clear on, that made people (even you) respond to me in a different way. You even went to my defense in one thread stating that a sister should not be addressed in a certain way.

Even still, I have revealed several times what "region of the planet I reside in" and other information.

The problem being, you seem to be psycho-analyzing, while not seeming to be empathizing. It's difficult to administer to someone, without having a level of empathy with the person being administered to.Well again, this was not my intention but I tend to think analytically. To empathize with you seems impossible unless you are told that you are right, when in this subject there is no right or wrong.

Alot of what you have said, comes off callous and indifferent; this would be fine if we were talking about the origins of Kemet or the struggles of humanity in the Mesolithic era. But, we are talking about an individual's feelings, and the struggles therewith. I simply think that a better "bed-side manner" is in order here.So maybe this is why there is a perception that I am male. I also recall you being accused of the same very recently. I am not indifferent, or I would take no interest in any of these topics. If I have come off callous then I apologize as that was not my intent. And quite honestly, you do not seem to approach this issue as if we are dealing with your "feelings" as you are seeking to get others to perceive your "persepctive" as valid. It is difficult to respond to you because you go back and forth between your personal views/experiences and those of the Black community as a whole.

For example, I recall in another thread adjacent to this one, where you compared my situation to your friend's, in saying that mine is more or less "someone who wants to have sex just because he's in his 30's". I believe that thread was about sex, as you continually reminded me and others of. You made sure to point out that it was an act independent of relationship and the emotions that may or may not be involved. And quite honestly, your area of concern on that topic was about your self-perceived lack of experience.

Not only is this a most incorrect assessment, but it's incorrectness stems from what seems to be the lack of empathy to the situation.I believe sympathy is what you are looking for, as it is impossible for me to empathise with what you are going through. With the little information you have about me, you do know that I am not male :). I do not want this to turn into a war of words, but my understanding is that empathy requires someone to be able to identify with another's situation.

I suppose you could argue that you are not required to have empathy to a person you don't know, just in order to discuss the topic, but doing so only diminishes any validity your perspective might have.That is your opinion.

But you can give what you have for whatever reason refused to give thus far. I don't know if you've ever been in a relationship, or if you even want one, and if so, of what sort. I also don't know if you're 21 or 41. I don't know what kind of family life you've had, or anything. I really don't know anything about UPLIFT19, beyond the ideologies that she speaks of......All of which increasingly becomes reminiscent of a SONDUKU game.Again, I don't think my vital statistics (some of which I have shared btw) are terribly relevant here. I would think from some of my statements it is clear that I have been in a relationship before, how else would I have experience? I'm not 21 or 41, and I have shared some of my family life and other info with others on destee.com on an individual basis. You don't know anything about me (which I don't think is true) either because you have not asked or are not paying attention.

In employing both my college and psychologist analogies simultaneously, I don't think anyone would seek "counseling" from someone who's experience and knowledge are not up to the task of the scenario for which counseling is being sought.

One can get "street-corner advice" from anywhere. If that's all that this is, then I stand corrected, though I never would have thought so, given the wrapping of intelligentsia that it comes in.I understand you wouldn't take advice from a single person who has never been married on how to make your marriage work (at least I wouldn't) just because they've read some books. This is just not the case with me. Again, you can view what I share however you would like. I was not seeking to be a shrink, but just contribute to a discussion.

SAMURAI36

05-01-2006, 03:08 PM

I only do so to save space, not to invalidate anything.

Fair enough.

This is not my view...

To be honest, I'm really not sure what your view is.......All of this seems like one big "Devil's Advocate" discussion.

Not quite. Again, I don't see the need to repost your entire post and some things are just informational and I do not have a response for every word. You can see it as taking your words out of context, but I'm just trying to save space.

I would agree, but I've seen you more than once, in more than one type of discussion omit information that was vital to my point in your quoting of my response, and then offer a response of your own as if that vital info was never given on my part to begin with.

How do I know if that info was recognized?

Perhaps in your view, but since we both agree we are in a society that views men as the only assertive party in a relationship then a woman not approaching a man may not be viewed as immature at all.

Again, this point is extrapolated from a larger point that I'd made, that once again you've omitted, while still making a point against it.

The questionable maturity on the part of women, that I spoke of before, lies in how they can dress any sort of way, and then expect for men to respond to it differently.

Do you see this as being "mature"?

I have not read every single post of yours so I would not know what your sentiment has been "all along." If you don't want to call it my "advice" they are my words.

Fair enough.

OK...so it seems you have your solution.

How do you know? You said you don't live in the South, but you haven't said where you live (the only allusion you've made thus far, is Maryland). Do you live in a Metropolitan area? Do you know women from these areas?

This was answered in the analogy as additional certifications that may be necessary for those fields. I have also addressed previously how this relates to relationships in a broader sense in the community as a whole.

I don't seem to recall you doing this here.

There are many organizations and professionals dedicated to helping people, speficially Black people, better function within relationships.

What organizations are those? How might someone such as myself, with my sort of issues, get in contact with these orgs?

Well then let me be clear, I live in Maryland and the public schools have worsened and the expectations are clearly lower now. I was learning pre-calc in the 6th grade, but there are several different levels within schools ranging from special ed to gifted classes. Even still, the school system itself has lowered the requirements to pass and ultimately graduate. They are clearly less prepared.

I understood what you meant.

You took pre-calc in the 6th grade, but since I don't know how long ago that was, I can't guage how relevant that is.

Obviously we have different experiences which lead to different viewpoints.

None of which leads to one perspective negating of another, as seems to persist here.

I was making a statement along the lines of your "times they are a changin'" theme here. I am not trying to be disagreeable, as it seems we do agree. I just wanted to point out that people had different reasons for staying married then that are not relevant today. I believe this has more to do with the divorce rate (with no actual statistics on why people divorce) than relationship troubles.

OK, but the divorce rate is the result, and not the cause. People were cheating back then, men were consulting prositutes, etc. I think the answer lies not in why they didn't get divorced, but rather why they chose to stay.

I do not feel a response is required here, since in your view my perspective is hard to take seriously and invalid.

And so, you don't feel inclined to give me reason to take it seriously? Not even for the sake of discussion?

Just because I find it hard to take seriously, doesn't mean that I haven't been trying to.

I don't live in the South, and I don't have that type of data. I think there is futility in trying to discuss this "issue" without making general or simplified statements.

So apparently I've been wasting my time then, giving you background abotu my situation.......Especially when you are only going to truncate it in your responses, and omit its validity.

I believe I do understand your point. I do think there are some principles of relationships that are constant.

Such as.....?

Why would you have to be at an advantage? Unless we're using the information for personal attacks in our discussions, what value does personal information posted on the Internet have?

I think you really underestimate the individual with whom you have been engaging in discussion here.

It's not about having an "advantage" per se, but I am definitely disadvantaged because I don't see how to put your perspectives within context. This is what leads me to not taking it seriously. Do you not see how this is connected?

Besides, how is it that you can ask for access to all sorts of facets of my background, yet I am not free to do the same?

Your very first question to me in this thread was:

If I may pry, what "tools" do you think you need?

I realize that I didn't have to answer your question, which led to the development of this discussion, but for the sake of discussion, I don't see why it was an issue not to.

I did not think engaging in discussion was a critique of you or anyone else.

But that is what you've been doing just the same.

Again, this was in response to your question about "how much" of my perspective is based on personal experience. This question is just not possible to answer in my view.

It would be for me, if I had access to more of your background. In having that, I would be able to quantify this for myself.

Same as you have been doing in regards to me.

I am not sure how useful it is, as generally people take this information and make assumptions or judgments that are unfounded. Ageism, sexism, and other -isms cause people not to take each other seriously based on their biases.

I'm sorry that this has been your experience, but that should not serve as a benchmark for what is supposed to take place. People expect others to share their perspectives, as well as the backgrounds that helps form them.

I'm a person that adheres to etymology, remember? Without knowing you, I need the source of your perspectives, in order to make their application more than an abstract concept.

You don't have to take me seriously, as that is your perrogative.

What then, is the purpose of discussing any of this, in your view? Why ask if you could "pry" to begin with?

I don't know why you would take something as hypothetical esp. when I have stated that my perspective is in part based on my personal experiences and that of others I know, which I have gone into some detail about.

Because that is the very foundation of what taking something as hypothetical is all about.

The crux of this thread, is "BROTHERS, ARE YOU READY FOR YOUR WOMAN?"
How does what your "personal experiences and that of others you know" factor into that, beyond being hypothetical?

Just as there was a perception that I was male, for reasons I am still not clear on, that made people (even you) respond to me in a different way. You even went to my defense in one thread stating that a sister should not be addressed in a certain way.

I agree, but I also "believe" that a Sister should not address others in a certain way as well.

Even still, I have revealed several times what "region of the planet I reside in" and other information.

When, where?

Well again, this was not my intention but I tend to think analytically. To empathize with you seems impossible unless you are told that you are right, when in this subject there is no right or wrong.

This is incorrect. Empathy is not synonymous with validation, even if the former leads to the latter.

So maybe this is why there is a perception that I am male. I also recall you being accused of the same very recently.

Yes, but again, I'm not a female though. Aren't females supposed to be the epitome of empathy?

I am not indifferent, or I would take no interest in any of these topics.

Discussing these topics is not a clear indicator of interest. Nor is it an indicator of the kind of interest you have in said discussion.

If I have come off callous then I apologize as that was not my intent. And quite honestly, you do not seem to approach this issue as if we are dealing with your "feelings" as you are seeking to get others to perceive your "persepctive" as valid.

Again, that's because of a host of background info that you do not have, but at this point I don't see that it is prudent nor beneficial for me to share it.

This the benefit of sharing information; not to be used against you, but to better assess and assist with the situation, if at all possible.

It is difficult to respond to you because you go back and forth between your personal views/experiences and those of the Black community as a whole.

I only do this, because #1) the 2 are not mutualy exclusive and #2) people here tend to dismiss it otherwise.

I believe that thread was about sex, as you continually reminded me and others of. You made sure to point out that it was an act independent of relationship and the emotions that may or may not be involved.

Yes, and you and others continually wanted to add other aspects into, despite the reminding. You could see how those other aspects factored into that discussion, yet not here? :confused:

And quite honestly, your area of concern on that topic was about your self-perceived lack of experience.

I don't understand why you can't see this being the same problem here, especially when your first question to me in this thread was:

If I may pry, what "tools" do you think you need?

Why aren't these threads being put together like the Lions of Voltron?

I can talk about sex as sex, and I can talk about relationships as relationships--both being independent of each other.........And I can discuss both in unison.

This is where I'm continuously saying that empathy comes in. Either you possess the ability to fathom what's going on, you don't.

I believe sympathy is what you are looking for, as it is impossible for me to empathise with what you are going through. With the little information you have about me, you do know that I am not male :). I do not want this to turn into a war of words, but my understanding is that empathy requires someone to be able to identify with another's situation.

Sympathy perhaps, but your definition of empathy is not quite correct.......
[URL="http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/empathy.html"]EMPATHY[/URL

And neither is your surmising that it's impossible to offer such. Sympathy cannot come without empathy.

That is your opinion.

Fair enough.

You don't know anything about me because you have not asked or are not paying attention.

I don't want to be forced to resort to labeling you as an "un-truth teller". I have asked you on numerous occasions about your background, up to and including this thread.

Again, I don't think my vital statistics (some of which I have shared btw) are terribly relevant here. I would think from some of my statements it is clear that I have been in a relationship before, how else would I have experience? I'm not 21 or 41, and I have shared some of my family life and other info with others on destee.com on an individual basis.

Others, but not me. Am I not your most frequent verbal colleague on here?

Saying "I'm not 21 or 41" doesn't tell me how old you are, even as I have asked more than once, yet you brazenly tell me that I have not asked.

:confused: :confused:

Again, you can view what I share however you would like. I was not seeking to be a shrink, but just contribute to a discussion.

Why? To what ends? What does "prying" get you? :confused:

PEACE

uplift19

05-01-2006, 05:56 PM

I would agree, but I've seen you more than once, in more than one type of discussion omit information that was vital to my point in your quoting of my response, and then offer a response of your own as if that vital info was never given on my part to begin with.
How do I know if that info was recognized?Because I read the entire post. Just because you did not get the desired response, does not mean it was not recognized.

Again, this point is extrapolated from a larger point that I'd made, that once again you've omitted, while still making a point against it.How did I make a point against it? I was agreeing with you, but just stated that there are reasons present in society that may prevent everyone from seeing the immaturily you can so readily identify. I think this goes beyond how one is dressed.

How do you know? You said you don't live in the South, but you haven't said where you live (the only allusion you've made thus far, is Maryland). Do you live in a Metropolitan area? Do you know women from these areas?Because you explicity stated this was your course of action, so I was assuming you saw this move as helping towards the solution to your problem and not a further hinderance to it. Yes, I live in a metropolitian area. Yes, the women I know are from these areas. How does this information help you in any way, especially considering I have already stated how few female friends I have (a bit of "background info" on me :fyi:)?

I don't seem to recall you doing this here. What organizations are those? How might someone such as myself, with my sort of issues, get in contact with these orgs?I have already posted this information. I am not sure if the one group is still having meetings, etc. but some of the others focus on marriage. You may/may not find those resources valuable given your views on the institution of marriage.

You took pre-calc in the 6th grade, but since I don't know how long ago that was, I can't guage how relevant that is.It is all irrelevant to this particular discussion, because it is about education and not relationships. I am not presently in the 6th grade, so it was obviously in the past. Either way, I was not in the "average" classes so my personal education does not represent the masses. Where I live, the educational system is in turmoil, so I know for a fact they are less prepared than I was.

Even more significant to me, is a comment made by an elder at a meeting I recently attended. She received her first degree in the early 1900's, and currently has her master's degree in education. Her assessment is that our community was better educated during segregation.

None of which leads to one perspective negating of another, as seems to persist here.Acknowleding that I have my own perspective that is different from your own does not negate either.

OK, but the divorce rate is the result, and not the cause. People were cheating back then, men were consulting prositutes, etc. I think the answer lies not in why they didn't get divorced, but rather why they chose to stay.I think those reaons are the same. Women in US society did not have the same opportunities back in the day as there are now. Economic security and the values of the society made divorce unpopular. All of that has changed now, especially in our community, as single-parent households are increasingly the norm. This makes the ideal family model of two married parents less important to many women who are having children now.

And so, you don't feel inclined to give me reason to take it seriously? Not even for the sake of discussion?What would make you take me seriously at this point, save my entire life story? I am at a loss.

Just because I find it hard to take seriously, doesn't mean that I haven't been trying to.

So apparently I've been wasting my time then, giving you background abotu my situation.......Especially when you are only going to truncate it in your responses, and omit its validity.I am not sure why you have such an issue with this, as I have already stated my reasons for doing so. If you think preventing a 2-page post by not reposting your entire response (which everyone can go back and see in its entirety btw) is "omiting its validity" then you are mistaken.

Such as.....?Good communication, as I just mentioned.

I think you really underestimate the individual with whom you have been engaging in discussion here.How so?

It's not about having an "advantage" per se, but I am definitely disadvantaged because I don't see how to put your perspectives within context. This is what leads me to not taking it seriously. Do you not see how this is connected?What specifically will help you do this?

Besides, how is it that you can ask for access to all sorts of facets of my background, yet I am not free to do the same?You are free to do what you wish, as you know.

I realize that I didn't have to answer your question, which led to the development of this discussion, but for the sake of discussion, I don't see why it was an issue not to.Why what was an issue exactly?

But that is what you've been doing just the same.If you think I am being critical so be it.

It would be for me, if I had access to more of your background. In having that, I would be able to quantify this for myself.No it would not. Your question "how much" was very general, and may have been able to be answered with any degree of accuracy if it was more specific.

Same as you have been doing in regards to me.I haven't been quantifying anything.

I'm sorry that this has been your experience, but that should not serve as a benchmark for what is supposed to take place. People expect others to share their perspectives, as well as the backgrounds that helps form them.

I'm a person that adheres to etymology, remember? Without knowing you, I need the source of your perspectives, in order to make their application more than an abstract concept.This has been my experience in this very community. The source of my perspectives is my own life and experiences others have shared with me. I have stated this repeatedly.

What then, is the purpose of discussing any of this, in your view? Why ask if you could "pry" to begin with?Because at the time I did not realize I wasn't being taken seriously...

Because that is the very foundation of what taking something as hypothetical is all about.

The crux of this thread, is "BROTHERS, ARE YOU READY FOR YOUR WOMAN?"
How does what your "personal experiences and that of others you know" factor into that, beyond being hypothetical?Because I am talking about actual experiences that actually happened, not hypothetical situations.

I agree, but I also "believe" that a Sister should not address others in a certain way as well.OK.

When, where?In the last 60 days, in chat, via email, and in this very thread.

This is incorrect. Empathy is not synonymous with validation, even if the former leads to the latter.I never said it was. For me, to empathize with someone means I can identify with what they are going through. For instance, I would never tell a woman who comes to me saying she has been raped or that they lost their mother at a young age (as a friend of mine did, to validate) that I empathize because I cannot begin to know what that feels like. Saying I do without having gone through it or something similar cheapens what they have experienced. I wouldn't dare say "I know how you feel" because I do not.

Yes, but again, I'm not a female though. Aren't females supposed to be the epitome of empathy?So what behavior does your being male excuse? I don't know what you think females are supposed to be, quite honestly.

Discussing these topics is not a clear indicator of interest. Nor is it an indicator of the kind of interest you have in said discussion.Well feel free to use that as a rule of thumb for me. I will not reply to a thread I am not interested in, which is why I did not weigh in on what type of clothing I prefer to see a man in while walking around the house. What are the "kinds" of interest?

Again, that's because of a host of background info that you do not have, but at this point I don't see that it is prudent nor beneficial for me to share it.So be it.

This the benefit of sharing information; not to be used against you, but to better assess and assist with the situation, if at all possible.Everyone's intentions are not the same.

I only do this, because #1) the 2 are not mutualy exclusive and #2) people here tend to dismiss it otherwise.But it confuses the issue.

Yes, and you and others continually wanted to add other aspects into, despite the reminding. You could see how those other aspects factored into that discussion, yet not here? :confused:So then why are you know adding emotions to that discussion and carrying them into this one?

I can talk about sex as sex, and I can talk about relationships as relationships--both being independent of each other.........And I can discuss both in unison. This is where I'm continuously saying that empathy comes in. Either you possess the ability to fathom what's going on, you don't....

Sympathy perhaps, but your definition of empathy is not quite correct.......
[URL="http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/empathy.html"]EMPATHY[/URL

And neither is your surmising that it's impossible to offer such. Sympathy cannot come without empathy.Already addressed..

I don't want to be forced to resort to labeling you as an "un-truth teller". I have asked you on numerous occasions about your background, up to and including this thread.Call me what you will, whether it is an "un-truth" or not.

Others, but not me. Am I not your most frequent verbal colleague on here?Not quite, you just have the longest posts. I also participate in chat, and further I have given information when asked for just FYI, not in the course of a "debate" where it is almost certain it will be miscontrued.

Saying "I'm not 21 or 41" doesn't tell me how old you are, even as I have asked more than once, yet you brazenly tell me that I have not asked.Stating you do not have information is not the same as asking a question. I find it hard to believe that knowing what you do know so far, and being that you were unable to even give a public "thank you" in another discussion because of whatever it is you wanted to share personally, that you are so misunderstanding of this.

Why? To what ends? What does "prying" get you? :confused:Good question. I do not know, but this is definately not what I had in mind. :bye:

spicybrown

05-01-2006, 08:22 PM

Samurai and Uplift sittin' in a tree.................. d-e-b-a-t-i-n-g.:x:

*Phew*, I can picture the two of you dabating face to face, all the mean muggin'.... explosive energy just perculatin.....LOL. I need to vote Uplift onto the ~Destee Debate Team~

SAMURAI36

05-01-2006, 09:49 PM

Because I read the entire post. Just because you did not get the desired response, does not mean it was not recognized.

Again, How do I know that you have read it? Especially if you do not post the statement as a quote (that is the reason for doing that, afterall), or if your response is not catered to my original statement?

How did I make a point against it? I was agreeing with you, but just stated that there are reasons present in society that may prevent everyone from seeing the immaturily you can so readily identify. I think this goes beyond how one is dressed.

Visual indicators such as how one is dressed, is not considered "readily identifiable"?

This is why I said it seems that you seem to justify things on the woman's side, while the male's perspective is that he has to fend for himself.

Because you explicity stated this was your course of action, so I was assuming you saw this move as helping towards the solution to your problem and not a further hinderance to it. Yes, I live in a metropolitian area. Yes, the women I know are from these areas. How does this information help you in any way, especially considering I have already stated how few female friends I have (a bit of "background info" on me :fyi:)?

Just because I stated that this was my course of action, doesn't mean it necessarily constitutes a solution. You asked me what I planned to do, and I told you. I'm hoping that it's a solution, but then I'm not really sure, that's why I'm sharing this here.

Why is everything so clandestine, as far as where you live? :confused:

I have already posted this information.[quote]

Where? Would it hurt to post it again?

[quote]I am not sure if the one group is still having meetings, etc. but some of the others focus on marriage. You may/may not find those resources valuable given your views on the institution of marriage.

Oh, I thought you'd said that they help Black people with relationship issues, you didn't say specifically they were marriage counselors.

It is all irrelevant to this particular discussion, because it is about education and not relationships. I am not presently in the 6th grade, so it was obviously in the past. Either way, I was not in the "average" classes so my personal education does not represent the masses. Where I live, the educational system is in turmoil, so I know for a fact they are less prepared than I was.

So in other words, my analogy is "irrelevant", simply because it is not going to be entertained.

Even more significant to me, is a comment made by an elder at a meeting I recently attended. She received her first degree in the early 1900's, and currently has her master's degree in education. Her assessment is that our community was better educated during segregation.

And this is somehow relevant to the discussion? :confused:

Acknowleding that I have my own perspective that is different from your own does not negate either.

Isn't this a given? Well, perhaps not; I can't seem to tell when you're agreeing with me, and you seem to overstate the obvious when you don't.

I think those reaons are the same. Women in US society did not have the same opportunities back in the day as there are now. Economic security and the values of the society made divorce unpopular. All of that has changed now, especially in our community, as single-parent households are increasingly the norm. This makes the ideal family model of two married parents less important to many women who are having children now.

I agree.

What would make you take me seriously at this point, save my entire life story? I am at a loss.

Answering specific questions when asked would help. :fyi:I really can't see how it's that difficult.

I am not sure why you have such an issue with this, as I have already stated my reasons for doing so. If you think preventing a 2-page post by not reposting your entire response (which everyone can go back and see in its entirety btw) is "omiting its validity" then you are mistaken.

Your response is already over a half-page long. Otherwise, why quote anyone's statments at all? You could do like alot of people here do, and just quote my entire post, and then respond to only to the points that you deem most relevant.

Good communication, as I just mentioned.

I agree, but that's one more quality that's missing from AA relationships, based on my involvements in them.

How so?

See the statement that immediately proceeded the one you quoted. Once again, you omit the very statements that are crucial to my responses, even as you ask a question in response to it.

What specifically will help you do this?

Answering direct questions that are posed to you.

You are free to do what you wish, as you know.

Why what was an issue exactly?

If you think I am being critical so be it.

No it would not. Your question "how much" was very general, and may have been able to be answered with any degree of accuracy if it was more specific.

I haven't been quantifying anything.

This is just going in circles, and only serving to take us further and further off-topic.

This has been my experience in this very community. The source of my perspectives is my own life and experiences others have shared with me. I have stated this repeatedly.

OK.

Because at the time I did not realize I wasn't being taken seriously...

And now that you do realize this....?

Because I am talking about actual experiences that actually happened, not hypothetical situations.

If you can't quantify these experiences in real-time, then what choice does the person that you are sharing these experiences with have, than to not take them seriously?

I don't see why this is so difficult; I broke down my perspective of my upbringing, as to not only leave no doubt in your mind about it, but also to paint a larger picture about why I think and perceive relationships and involvements and interactions with Black women the way I do.

Are you telling me that this was not helpful for you?

OK.

OK.

In the last 60 days, in chat, via email, and in this very thread.

Is it really that much of an inconvenience for you to repeat any of this?

I never said it was. For me, to empathize with someone means I can identify with what they are going through. For instance, I would never tell a woman who comes to me saying she has been raped or that they lost their mother at a young age (as a friend of mine did, to validate) that I empathize because I cannot begin to know what that feels like. Saying I do without having gone through it or something similar cheapens what they have experienced. I wouldn't dare say "I know how you feel" because I do not.

Yes, but that's not precisely what empathy means. To empathize means to identify with the feeling, not the source of the feeling. Have you never been violated in anyway? If you have ever felt any form of violation, powerlessness, helplessness, etc, then you can indeed imagine what it's like to have been raped.

Didn't you say that alot of your perspectives are based on what others have shared with you?

So what behavior does your being male excuse?

None.

I don't know what you think females are supposed to be, quite honestly.

Females are supposed to be human beings; living, breathing mammals who breathe air and drink liquids, who are supposed to be responsible for their own destinies......Just like males are.

What are the "kinds" of interest?

Synonymous with level of interest: casual, indifferent, ulterior motive, true concern, etc.

So be it.

Everyone's intentions are not the same.

"Well feel free to use that as a rule of thumb for me."

But it confuses the issue.

For who?

So then why are you know adding emotions to that discussion and carrying them into this one?

#1) Who said I was doing any such thing? Where did you get that I was doing that in my response to which you quoted?

#2) What does that have to do with the question I posed to you?

...

Already addressed..

Call me what you will, whether it is an "un-truth" or not.

OK.

Not quite, you just have the longest posts. I also participate in chat, and further I have given information when asked for just FYI, not in the course of a "debate" where it is almost certain it will be miscontrued.

I don't see you interacting with that many people on the boards (not including chat, where I don't go), and certainly not for as long and as often as you do with me.

The length of my posts has nothing to do with how often you respond to them.

Stating you do not have information is not the same as asking a question. I find it hard to believe that knowing what you do know so far, and being that you were unable to even give a public "thank you" in another discussion because of whatever it is you wanted to share personally, that you are so misunderstanding of this.

Huh? :confused:

I fail to see how the merging of these 3 statements results in a single point.

Good question. I do not know, but this is definately not what I had in mind. :bye:

Fair enough.

uplift19

05-01-2006, 09:50 PM

uplift19

05-01-2006, 11:35 PM

Again, How do I know that you have read it? Especially if you do not post the statement as a quote (that is the reason for doing that, afterall), or if your response is not catered to my original statement?Because I just stated I did.

Visual indicators such as how one is dressed, is not considered "readily identifiable"?Yes.

This is why I said it seems that you seem to justify things on the woman's side, while the male's perspective is that he has to fend for himself.Not sure why you got that impression, as I agreed with this point.

Just because I stated that this was my course of action, doesn't mean it necessarily constitutes a solution. You asked me what I planned to do, and I told you. I'm hoping that it's a solution, but then I'm not really sure, that's why I'm sharing this here.Well we won't really know, until that happens.

Why is everything so clandestine, as far as where you live? :confused:I answered your direct questions.

[QUOTE]I have already posted this information.[quote]

Where? Would it hurt to post it again? I don't recall. I wouldn't hurt, I just didn't take the time to look for it to repost it.

Oh, I thought you'd said that they help Black people with relationship issues, you didn't say specifically they were marriage counselors.

So in other words, my analogy is "irrelevant", simply because it is not going to be entertained.

And this is somehow relevant to the discussion? :confused:No, the details about my education are irrelevant because it was just an analogy. I have entertained it.

Isn't this a given? Well, perhaps not; I can't seem to tell when you're agreeing with me, and you seem to overstate the obvious when you don't.It apparantly is not, as you keep saying I am invalidating your views. :laugh: I am considering the source accusing me of overstating anything.

Answering specific questions when asked would help. :fyi:I really can't see how it's that difficult.I think I've been doing so...

Your response is already over a half-page long. Otherwise, why quote anyone's statments at all? You could do like alot of people here do, and just quote my entire post, and then respond to only to the points that you deem most relevant.But not 2 pages :) I am trying to respond to the relevant points, but think it's stilly to requote the entire post.

See the statement that immediately proceeded the one you quoted. Once again, you omit the very statements that are crucial to my responses, even as you ask a question in response to it.Yes, this is going in circles :book:

And now that you do realize this....?This becomes increasingly futile.

If you can't quantify these experiences in real-time, then what choice does the person that you are sharing these experiences with have, than to not take them seriously?It seems that is your only option. I think this whole business about "quantifying" experience/knowledge is pointless.

I don't see why this is so difficult; I broke down my perspective of my upbringing, as to not only leave no doubt in your mind about it, but also to paint a larger picture about why I think and perceive relationships and involvements and interactions with Black women the way I do.And how did that "quantify" anything?

Is it really that much of an inconvenience for you to repeat any of this?No.

Yes, but that's not precisely what empathy means. To empathize means to identify with the feeling, not the source of the feeling. Have you never been violated in anyway? If you have ever felt any form of violation, powerlessness, helplessness, etc, then you can indeed imagine what it's like to have been raped.I just don't agree with that. Rape is a very specific experience that is not just about the things you mentioned. I have not experienced loss in any real way, so I cannot understand what it's like to lose a loved one. I've lost very few family members, and not anyone I was really close to.

Didn't you say that alot of your perspectives are based on what others have shared with you?Yes.

#1) Who said I was doing any such thing? Where did you get that I was doing that in my response to which you quoted?I did, as you just stated:
But, we are talking about an individual's feelings, and the struggles therewith. I simply think that a better "bed-side manner" is in order here. For example, I recall in another thread adjacent to this one, where you compared my situation to your friend's, in saying that mine is more or less "someone who wants to have sex just because he's in his 30's".

#2) What does that have to do with the question I posed to you?Nothing, as it was in response to your statement about the other thread. Of course I can see how emotions apply to this topic, but I did not want to state the obvious.

I don't see you interacting with that many people on the boards (not including chat, where I don't go), and certainly not for as long and as often as you do with me.

The length of my posts has nothing to do with how often you respond to them.Well you don't go in chat and probably aren't tracing my every post. As far as responses, it takes two to tango. You rarely back down from responding to someone. I admit that I am stubborn, which I why I have persisted.

Huh? :confused:

I fail to see how the merging of these 3 statements results in a single point.The point is, you are asking me the same questions over and over again in the same manner and wondering why you aren't getting the desired response. Is this not the definition of insanity, as you pointed out before? And since it seems you have some privacy issues as well, I am not sure why it is so hard to comprehend someone else's.

Either way, despite my stubborness, at this point I fail to see the value in continuing this exchange and it seems that is something we both agree on.

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