To those sisters that are in committed relationships, what did you do before you found your sweetheart, to prepare yourself for him until he arrived? When you found him, how did you know it was him? If you had to name one significant thing about him that stood out that made you think, "yes, this is THE one", what would that be?

To sisters that are not in a committed relationship yet, what are you doing, if anything, to prepare for [his] arrival? Are you actively seeking or do you think he'll just show up one day by chance?

To sisters who are not in a committed relationship do you plan to continue that way? Is this by choice or circumstances and would you change this if you could?

Do you believe in the wedding vow "until death do us part?" What do you think that means? (Any Catholics out there that want to answer this question?)

Do you think it's important to live with someone before marriage to see whether you're compatible?

Do you think it's important to get married, when you and your sweetheart are happy the way things are?

Queenie :spinstar:

A few months before I met my current, I had gotten out of a terrible relationship, and almost swore off men altogether. I decided to just get out and do me. I can easily entertain myself, so I would go to bookstores and read love/relationship books, travel, ya know...just all about me. I didn't go out of my way searching for the perfect man, because I'm fine whether I'm involved or single. I began to see a relationship as a way of enhancing my life, instead of the way of life. Surprisingly I became a guy-magnet (explain that men!!...lol). I knew he was the one, because 7 years prior to me meeting him I had a dream in which I met a man of the same description and approach as him. What captured my heart about him was that he was just as goofy as I am...lol. I always wanted someone as young, funny, and as unique as I was. He was also an unAmericanized foreigner, plus he was way fine:D . I was like: c'mere... why you single? We made a promise to never leave each other (our own vows), and since he was my first 20-something love, he is truly something special.:love::couple:

He makes me want to do things like this:
http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38311

Interesting love to hear more sistas thoughts on this .

A few months before I met my current, I had gotten out of a terrible relationship, and almost swore off men altogether. I decided to just get out and do me. I can easily entertain myself, so I would go to bookstores and read love/relationship books, travel, ya know...just all about me. I didn't go out of my way searching for the perfect man, because I'm fine whether I'm involved or single. I began to see a relationship as a way of enhancing my life, instead of the way of life. Surprisingly I became a guy-magnet (explain that men!!...lol). I knew he was the one, because 7 years prior to me meeting him I had a dream in which I met a man of the same description and approach as him. What captured my heart about him was that he was just as goofy as I am...lol. I always wanted someone as young, funny, and as unique as I was. He was also an unAmericanized foreigner, plus he was way fine:D . I was like: c'mere... why you single? We made a promise to never leave each other (our own vows), and since he was my first 20-something love, he is truly something special.:love:

It's beautiful when two goofy people get together!

Still waiting:smooch:

Sister Spicy, thank you for sharing your "love" story. It's wonderful that you have found someone that you feel so in tune with. Do you think you have or are setting the type of example for your daughter that you'd like to see her follow or at the least, garner her respect? That was a question that became apparent to me when I was raising my daughter and I'm just curious as to how other women feel. If you could change anything about the choices you made in the past, what would they be? Do you have any words of advice to pass along to another sister, especially your daughter?

Queenie :spinstar:

Still waiting:smooch:

Sister Heart, in the meantime, do you think you are ready for a deep committed relationship with a man? Do you believe that a relationship can last for a lifetime? Think of that in terms of the years you have left to live. That's probably a very long time.....do you think you have what it takes to withstand the test of time with someone?

Queenie :spinstar:

*Grabs pen and paper, anxiously waiting to take notes*

Sister Heart, in the meantime, do you think you are ready for a deep committed relationship with a man? Do you believe that a relationship can last for a lifetime? Think of that in terms of the years you have left to live. That's probably a very long time.....do you think you have what it takes to withstand the test of time with someone?

Queenie :spinstar:

Yes I do!
I know a relationship can last forever if you know and love yourself first.
Then and only then can you do the same for someone else.
People marry or fall in love for superficial reasons.
That's why we often lose ourselves in our mates.
when I find a black man that gives and receives on all levels of life the way I do we will still be togther in the next life!

Yes I do!
I know a relationship can last forever if you know and love yourself first.
Then and only then can you do the same for someone else.
People marry or fall in love for superficial reasons.
That's why we often lose ourselves in our mates.
when I find a black man that gives and receives on all levels of life the way I do we will still be togther in the next life!

Sister Heart, bare with this older sister for wanting to know more but your answer sparked new questions for me, so I hope you have the patience to indulge me.

When you wrote "Yes I do!", I presume that was in answer to my question if you thought you were ready for a deep commitment with someone.

How do you know that? I mean, did your "knowing" come about through some deliberate process that you undertook to know?

Love can be a subjective word don't you think. I agree that knowing how to love yourself first, is paramount in being able to know how to love someone else. It just seems to make sense doesn't it. But what does that really mean? Do you have to love everything about you, or can you love some things and not others and still "love" yourself? Can you love somethings about someone and not others and still "love" them?

Maybe I'm searching for something that doesn't exist or isn't possible BUT, there's something that yearns in my spirit for a love experience that is so comfortable, so "at home" that my soul finds a sense of peace with it and I just KNOW it will stand the test of time and maybe even beyond this life.

These are questions that anyone is free to answer, not just you.


Queenie :spirit:

Sister Spicy, thank you for sharing your "love" story. It's wonderful that you have found someone that you feel so in tune with. Do you think you have or are setting the type of example for your daughter that you'd like to see her follow or at the least, garner her respect? That was a question that became apparent to me when I was raising my daughter and I'm just curious as to how other women feel. If you could change anything about the choices you made in the past, what would they be? Do you have any words of advice to pass along to another sister, especially your daughter?

Queenie :spinstar:

I definately watch who and what I bring around my daughter. I strive everyday to be the best role model for her, because she stares and watches everything I do......I'm like..."whatchalookinat?"....lol.


"If you could change anything about the choices you made in the past, what would they be? Do you have any words of advice to pass along to another sister, especially your daughter?"

If I had a choice to undo some things from my past as far as relationships, I would

1. not have put so much emphasis on falling in love, too energy consuming. (I think most guys feel a needy woman is comparable to a huge plush toy monkey that is velcroed to his back with a big smirk)

2. gone out and done more, instead of staying up in the house fearing that I might go to #ell, fearing the Lord. (I woke up)




If I had any bit of advice to pass along to my daughter or another woman, it would be to: stay busy doing something constructive. Boredom leads to experimenting. Ladies how many times do you sit around bored, and the opposite sex comes to mind? Nothing wrong with that, but if you can find a way to improve yourself, your spare time should be spent doing so. There are soooo many fascinating things going on in the world for a woman to be sitting around jonesin for a man, then when she gets one, it's not what she expected:crying: Think of ways to simplify your life (remove excess baggage). Have a goal in life, even if the span of it is 10 years, at least you're working toward something, you can easily lose yourself in a complex world. Make a list of your accomplishments and ask yourself: "when I'm 60 years old, will this list put a smile on my face?" Don't have children back to back.:coffee:

It's beautiful when two goofy people get together!

Pan, is your s/o goofy? Goofy people rock!!

:number1:

I definately watch who and what I bring around my daughter. I strive everyday to be the best role model for her, because she stares and watches everything I do......I'm like..."whatchalookinat?"....lol.


"If you could change anything about the choices you made in the past, what would they be? Do you have any words of advice to pass along to another sister, especially your daughter?"

If I had a choice to undo some things from my past as far as relationships, I would

1. not have put so much emphasis on falling in love, too energy consuming. (I think most guys feel a needy woman is comparable to a huge plush toy monkey that is velcroed to his back with a big smirk)

2. gone out and done more, instead of staying up in the house fearing that I might go to #ell, fearing the Lord. (I woke up)




If I had any bit of advice to pass along to my daughter or another woman, it would be to: stay busy doing something constructive. Boredom leads to experimenting. Ladies how many times do you sit around bored, and the opposite sex comes to mind? Nothing wrong with that, but if you can find a way to improve yourself, your spare time should be spent doing so. There are soooo many fascinating things going on in the world for a woman to be sitting around jonesin for a man, then when she gets one, it's not what she expected:crying: Think of ways to simplify your life (remove excess baggage). Have a goal in life, even if the span of it is 10 years, at least you're working toward something, you can easily lose yourself in a complex world. Make a list of your accomplishments and ask yourself: "when I'm 60 years old, will this list put a smile on my face?" Don't have children back to back.:coffee:

You have earned my respect sister! I thoroughly enjoyed reading your response to my questions. These are not shallow words that come without a lot of forethought. Apparently, you've been doing a lot of thinking--maybe as a result of trial and error--but nevertheless, you seem to be very comfortable with yourself and it shows from the positive message that you have shared with us here.

I look forward to reading more from you sister.

Peace,
Queenie :heart:

To those sisters that are in committed relationships, what did you do before you found your sweetheart, to prepare yourself for him until he arrived? When you found him, how did you know it was him? If you had to name one significant thing about him that stood out that made you think, "yes, this is THE one", what would that be?

To sisters that are not in a committed relationship yet, what are you doing, if anything, to prepare for [his] arrival? Are you actively seeking or do you think he'll just show up one day by chance?

To sisters who are not in a committed relationship do you plan to continue that way? Is this by choice or circumstances and would you change this if you could?

Do you believe in the wedding vow "until death do us part?" What do you think that means? (Any Catholics out there that want to answer this question?)

Do you think it's important to live with someone before marriage to see whether you're compatible?

Do you think it's important to get married, when you and your sweetheart are happy the way things are?

Queenie :spinstar:
How did I prepare? Hmmm. Well, I’m a complex person, and I tell a man that upfront. I’m also a very relationship-oriented person. So, I’ve always been prepared for compatible, relationship-oriented people to come into my life.

I kinda knew my partner was the one from Day 1. He was always very accommodating, would take me anywhere I wanted to go, would call me several times a day “just because,” would do anything possible to solve any problem for me or relieve my stress, would share lots of tidbits of his activities with me, trusted me enough to show me his vulnerabilities, asked me for a loan a week or so after I met him so he could get his car fixed, invited his friends over to meet me, made a chicken stew and chewed up the bones right in front of me on our second date. LOL!! He never put on any airs and just assumed that was okay with me, which it was.

From the first day, he treated me like he’s always known me and this made me feel I’d known him always too.

I do believe in “death do us part” IF he and I prove to have the capacity to allow for growth and change in the other, if that occurs.

No I don’t think it’s necessary to live with a person before marriage. I think a couple should spend LOTS of time with each other in many different situations and not be afraid to talk about relationship-busting questions.

Yes, despite all happiness, it’s also necessary for us to get married because I want to have children.

Sister Heart, bare with this older sister for wanting to know more but your answer sparked new questions for me, so I hope you have the patience to indulge me.

When you wrote "Yes I do!", I presume that was in answer to my question if you thought you were ready for a deep commitment with someone.

How do you know that? I mean, did your "knowing" come about through some deliberate process that you undertook to know?

Love can be a subjective word don't you think. I agree that knowing how to love yourself first, is paramount in being able to know how to love someone else. It just seems to make sense doesn't it. But what does that really mean? Do you have to love everything about you, or can you love some things and not others and still "love" yourself? Can you love somethings about someone and not others and still "love" them?

Maybe I'm searching for something that doesn't exist or isn't possible BUT, there's something that yearns in my spirit for a love experience that is so comfortable, so "at home" that my soul finds a sense of peace with it and I just KNOW it will stand the test of time and maybe even beyond this life.

These are questions that anyone is free to answer, not just you.


Queenie :spirit:


I have been through alot when it comes to relationships.
I had alot of emotional baggage before and it was not good!
Also it reflected on the choices I made for my mates.
I had some good brothers but they weren't good for me.
I allowed some of them to ruin my self-esteem based on their insecurities.
I have been ready for a good black man for a while now.
I take the good with the bad and the happy and sad but I will not mistreat myself by allowing them to. I'm learning to do things for myself more..
Things that make me happy even if I don't have a man.
I'm relearning me.
I no longer cry about the past anymore.
Even if I'm dating someone I don't sit by the phone and wait for his call.
I date have fun and take care of me and my baby.
If someone great comes about, you better believe I'll be running after it!:smooch:

Sister Heart you have the sweetest spirit that comes through your words. Continue to take care of yourself and keep your "third eye" open and I'm sure the man that comes to you will reflect all the qualities that you are seeking.

If I may, allow me to suggest one thing that you consider changing. You wrote:

If someone great comes about, you better believe I'll be running after it!

Remember I once wrote to you about my belief in the power of words? Well, here is a good example of what I meant. If reflects a sense of uncertainty or doubt. Because you want a relationship like the one you described, you must believe in it, that it will happen and never doubt it. Write an affirmation as though it has already happened. For example, "My man and I are happy together and in love." This is only an example that you can use or you can write your own. Practice writing several, just remember not to write about what you want to happen, but rather what has already happened. What's equally important though, is that you write them clearly and say them daily. Try to remove any blocks that may stand between you and him, then watch what happens.

In the meantime, what advice would you give someone in terms of preparing for the "right" man to arrive?

Queenie :spinstar:

Sister Heart you have the sweetest spirit that comes through your words. Continue to take care of yourself and keep your "third eye" open and I'm sure the man that comes to you will reflect all the qualities that you are seeking.

If I may, allow me to suggest one thing that you consider changing. You wrote:



Remember I once wrote to you about my belief in the power of words? Well, here is a good example of what I meant. If reflects a sense of uncertainty or doubt. Because you want a relationship like the one you described, you must believe in it, that it will happen and never doubt it. Write an affirmation as though it has already happened. For example, "My man and I are happy together and in love." This is only an example that you can use or you can write your own. Practice writing several, just remember not to write about what you want to happen, but rather what has already happened. What's equally important though, is that you write them clearly and say them daily. Try to remove any blocks that may stand between you and him, then watch what happens.

In the meantime, what advice would you give someone in terms of preparing for the "right" man to arrive?

Queenie :spinstar:

Thank you sister,
I will definately keep that in mind.
The best advice I could give to a sister is,
never accept anything but beautiful as he is a reflection of you.
Be patient, even when the sun is competing with the rain.

Sister Heart, I know you have also been waiting for Brother Samurai's report to us on the "History of the Institution of Marriage." Well, he finally came through and as you already knew, he came through with some dynamic information. If you haven't already, check it out....and you too Sister Spicy. Now some really good discussion begins....

Queenie :)

Ive tried to make myself as well rounded and diverse in my leisure activities..
ive had dates at the shooting range..... and at hockey games..
Ive educated my mind ... fine tuned my body...
Ive learned to deal with bad *** kids...
just to develop patience..
ive learned to be patient...
the man that im looking for is just as much searching for me as I for him..
ive learned that no min is ever wasted when the min. is used to better yourself...
perfection does not exist in one.. but when 2 join.

till death do us part.. or the judge sends me to jail.. is how i see it...
cause you made a promise to God and I...
in front of his fam as well as mine..
thru thik n thin.. .(i think thats the part that the men forgot... when they were talkin about weight gain after marriage :p)
and if you gunna leave me..
u leavin in pieces...
inna blk bag to the coroners..
there is nothing that was so perfect that two ppl who love eachother once enough to wed..
that can go so wrong..
most of the time ppl..
just grow apart.. because they end up lonely in the relationship..
i dont want that to happen to me and mine..
ive studied couples..
and thier problems..
there are ways to avoid.
you just gotta relax..
and remember to love..

HHHmm! What did I do to prepare for my mate?

1. I learned to love myself with my imperfections and all. In the past I was in relationships where I was not comfortable with myself so I tried to pour myself into whatever mold the mate at the time wanted me to be. However I soon learn ther is nothing wrong with compromise but God has the only Potter's hand to mold me into what HE wants me to be.

2. I learned to be complete all by myself. It was hard to break the mentality of waiting on a mate to complete me. But an ex once told me you have to bring something to the table. So I got myself together so that I was not dependant on any prince charming to come and rescue me.

3. Lastly, I stop looking and put my trust in God that He would send him when I was truly ready. I was always taught that man that finds a wife finds a good thing. So I stop looking and seeking. Trusting that God knew when I would be able to handle the man He had selected for me.

When I met my current mate it was like we were the flipside of the same coin. We were alike in ways that I can't explain. But yet where I was weak he was strong and vice versa. I felt like I had knew him forever. I was just so comfortable with him. And he accepts me for me but inspires me to be all that I can be. I don't know what else say but we just click. He gets me and I get him.

How did I prepare? Hmmm. Well, I’m a complex person, and I tell a man that upfront. I’m also a very relationship-oriented person. So, I’ve always been prepared for compatible, relationship-oriented people to come into my life.

I kinda knew my partner was the one from Day 1. He was always very accommodating, would take me anywhere I wanted to go, would call me several times a day “just because,” would do anything possible to solve any problem for me or relieve my stress, would share lots of tidbits of his activities with me, trusted me enough to show me his vulnerabilities, asked me for a loan a week or so after I met him so he could get his car fixed, invited his friends over to meet me, made a chicken stew and chewed up the bones right in front of me on our second date. LOL!! He never put on any airs and just assumed that was okay with me, which it was.

From the first day, he treated me like he’s always known me and this made me feel I’d known him always too.

I do believe in “death do us part” IF he and I prove to have the capacity to allow for growth and change in the other, if that occurs.

No I don’t think it’s necessary to live with a person before marriage. I think a couple should spend LOTS of time with each other in many different situations and not be afraid to talk about relationship-busting questions.

Yes, despite all happiness, it’s also necessary for us to get married because I want to have children.

Sister Riada,

Thank you for sharing your story. It looks as though you and your man are quite compatible. You wrote that you are a relationship-oriented person and always have been. What exactly does that mean and how does that play out in your life? Is there anything in particular that conveys that when you're in a relationship? Were you always this "together" in terms of knowing how you are or did this knowledge come to you through trial and error? Give us an example of a "relationship-busting" question.

If you had some advice to share with another sister about relationships, what would that be?

Queenie :spinstar:

Ive tried to make myself as well rounded and diverse in my leisure activities..
ive had dates at the shooting range..... and at hockey games..
Ive educated my mind ... fine tuned my body...
Ive learned to deal with bad *** kids...
just to develop patience..
ive learned to be patient...
the man that im looking for is just as much searching for me as I for him..
ive learned that no min is ever wasted when the min. is used to better yourself...
perfection does not exist in one.. but when 2 join.

till death do us part.. or the judge sends me to jail.. is how i see it...
cause you made a promise to God and I...
in front of his fam as well as mine..
thru thik n thin.. .(i think thats the part that the men forgot... when they were talkin about weight gain after marriage :p)
and if you gunna leave me..
u leavin in pieces...
inna blk bag to the coroners..
there is nothing that was so perfect that two ppl who love eachother once enough to wed..
that can go so wrong..
most of the time ppl..
just grow apart.. because they end up lonely in the relationship..
i dont want that to happen to me and mine..
ive studied couples..
and thier problems..
there are ways to avoid.
you just gotta relax..
and remember to love..

Beautiful PoeticManifesta, thank you for your contribution to the discussion. Wow, sister, you sound very focused and aware of what you want in a man. It looks as though he'd better be ready for the long haul if he ever leads you to believe that he's committed to you.

At the rate that couples break up or divorce, it does make you wonder sometimes what went so terribly wrong and if they learned anything from the experience to avoid repeating it in the future.

Yes, some marriage vows do have in them, "until death do us part," which was explained to me recently by a Black Catholic. I always assumed it meant until ONE partner died, but they said it actually means until both die. So if one becomes a widow/widower (interesting terms), in the Catholic church's eyes, they are still married to the dead partner.

Sister, you appear as though you're the type of woman who abhors any type of disrespect or deceit in a relationship, but let me ask you, is anyone who is like this worth spending time in prison over? I understand the pain and disappointment that can develop when someone doesn't treat you the way you expect them to, but wouldn't it be better to step away from a relationship intact when the partner shows their weaknesses, rather than being pulled into their dysfunctional world and ruining your life too? Isn't your life worth living outside the walls of prison rather than inside behind bars?

I would suggest, knowing how seriously you feel about a commitment, to spend more time doing what you're doing, be very discerning when you are with a man so that you can cull the "good" from the "bad" and prepare for the days when he shows you all of who he is, even when it may not be who you thought he was or hoped he would be. Learn how to maintain a healthy balance of mind, body and spirit so that you can continue to be the beautiful sister that you are.

Based on your experiences in relationships, if you had any advice to give another sister, what would it be?

Queenie :spinstar:

Hey Sister Asimplepoet :wave: Welcome to the discussion. Well sister, it sure sounds like you have found the right formula for you! Congratulations to you and your man. :congrats:

Yes, "bring something to the table" is a very popular phrase these days. I'm sure it means different things to different people depending on their personal circumstances. When your ex said it to you, did you know exactly what he meant so that you knew what you wanted to do?

If a sister asked your for advice about how to find a man, what would you share?

Queenie :spinstar:

Sister Heart, bare with this older sister for wanting to know more but your answer sparked new questions for me, so I hope you have the patience to indulge me.

When you wrote "Yes I do!", I presume that was in answer to my question if you thought you were ready for a deep commitment with someone.

How do you know that? I mean, did your "knowing" come about through some deliberate process that you undertook to know?

Love can be a subjective word don't you think. I agree that knowing how to love yourself first, is paramount in being able to know how to love someone else. It just seems to make sense doesn't it. But what does that really mean? Do you have to love everything about you, or can you love some things and not others and still "love" yourself? Can you love somethings about someone and not others and still "love" them?

Maybe I'm searching for something that doesn't exist or isn't possible BUT, there's something that yearns in my spirit for a love experience that is so comfortable, so "at home" that my soul finds a sense of peace with it and I just KNOW it will stand the test of time and maybe even beyond this life.

These are questions that anyone is free to answer, not just you.


Queenie :spirit:
Are you ready ladies? Will you be misled or will he misled you?

The clues are at the beginning of any relationship. All the signs. I overlooked one. I for gave one. Now after twenty three years. It becomes hard change. Hard decision time. My wife says you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

I say bust the box.

What do you really want to do?

It doesn't have a direct effect on my love. It does change the interaction and intimacy. Her father is selfish. I know where she got this. Taking those close to you for granted as parents will be transfered to your children if you take them for granted as well.

This is a great post sister NNQueen.

In this post I am going to get intimate. Don’t misunderstand. There are no false realities in my vision. If you see only negative read again. You read this post wrong.



Asimplepoet posted that their mate said bring more or something to the table.

I knew my wife was the one. I wanted to date. Then marry.

I knew at first glance and didn't know her name. I introduced myself, thru a female cousin of mine. My wife was shy, and her father was strict. She slammed her door and it took another two years to get to her front door again to say hello.

I started dating my wife in high school. We had a great college life for two years on campus while I attended. Two years with only her there and me visiting ( drove three hundred miles one way ) every other weekend. We talked on the phone for hours every Friday. She never wanted for money. I started buying her clothes and what ever she desired. I even wrote love letters she kept and her sister found and read. ( Those were intimate and wow I hope I didn't get detailed ) She never had to catch a bus, or be without a car. When the one her father gave her was getting old and costly it was sold. I bought her one her one her last two years of college.

To me I still didn't have what I wanted to bring to the table.

I said to my wife I wanted to bring more or something to offer to the table.
My graduation present after she graduated was a house and the proposal I promised years earlier to marry her.

The house she never saw. I was twenty had a five bedroom home and all I had to do was sign the papers. I didn't sign, because I knew that home was captured by my efforts for her and me. I no longer saw us together. HUD was giving me one for $1.00 ( another twist in relationships and why it is important to communicate everything, all concerns and issues. Be open and honest in every aspect of a relationship )

She graduated, received a ticket to leave Missouri for California. Everyone knew. I was not told. Until she graduated. A mistake on her part. She left for all the wrong reasons. She wanted to go and didn't trust I would understand. It hurt so much. I said bye and didn't see her to the airport. Yes my love didn't share with me like she should have; we separated for six hard months.

Family and friends talked to me and she wrote me letters every day it seems. I played the cad and never wrote back. Seriously I was missing my woman. I quit two jobs, with my boss’s help I got unemployment. I gave away my bike, car and van, helped my sister get a home thru HUD for $1.00 and packed my clothes. Left with a promise of unemployment two hundred dollars and a one way ticket. Three years later we married and bought our first house in California.

I believe it is a mans job and responsibility to provide for his love and those depending on him.

This year I will be married twenty three years. ( I know no intimacy of another. I take my vows serious and don't need. Nor have the desire to hurt, mislead, or use another for my pleasure principle.

( A real word in the dictionary )

My life’s trials and tribulations and desired level of intimacy are never thrusted on another woman creating her pain. Nor will I bring my wife any pain by cheating. My sexual drive is astronomical but under my control. Real intimacy is between your ears, and in your chest the other pleasures enhance.

To me it is more than a song Janet Jackson capitalized on.

I discuss hard open issues. We discuss the truth as much as it hurts us both. I don't show pain and sorrow the same way she does, but ( life has a way of clouding vision – not mine but hers right now ) x-ray my heart and it’s sincere and there. Not all of those years have been without bumps. I work to always keep her road smooth.

The some riffs have been related to money. ( I took all her credit cards once. All but one and she felt helpless ) Like the rule my family has I will not let money control how I deal with disagreements or damage a relationship worth working on. I can get money and have no concerns that I can’t make something great happen.

My personal observation and attitude thru every one of those years has been things aren't that bad. We are still blessed.

The trouble is getting her ( the last few years ) to change and give me more consideration.

I have always come to the table with honesty and trust. She has to ( this is the clouding of her vision ) Reflecting back... I have never let her down. Never went a day without funding the essentials I enjoy or she asked me for )

I have always been there, I said so to her when I met her, it was a promise I made and mean today and will always will honor. The key is discussing the truth, understanding the truth and to keep moving on combined and considerate goals.


Do you have to love everything about you, or can you love some things and not others and still "love" yourself? Can you love something’s about someone and not others and still "love" them?

“ Can you love something’s about someone and not others and still "love" them? “

Yes you can.

NNQueen I don’t love everything about me. I don’t like the approach I have to take sometimes to get problems solved. I take influence over me serious.

What I constantly work on is any pain I bring to my spouse. She says I do . I don’t believe it but I take her concerns serious. I know down deep she is selfish. A huge personality trait. Deserving change.

I love her. She still clues me in last. She asks me to come thru and be by her side after she makes another relationship effecting decision without me. Expecting me like she did. When she left for California. I am not a door mat. I don’t like being walked on. I can make the truth hurt. So I am working on that. But I won't stop driving the truth.

I am working on the vision with my wife and I ask her all the time to trust me. I ask her to make the changes that would make our road smooth. This one aspect of her personality. She knows I love her, and has even said once. She knows I will be there. I think she bases this on the fact I do love her. But truth. I won’t remain for the neglect. My kids are grown and my love for them won’t allow me to leave them without a start in life. My wife will be Ok too. We are purchasing a second home and I told her I may not be going with her.

Sometimes in matters she doesn’t see things as clear as she should. I ask her to trust on blind faith in those times. In some ways I feel I am taken for granted and in some cases I know she takes me for granted. She is the only one allowed in this life at this time to do so.

Today, now my attitude is this must change so we don’t find ourselves disagreeing. I share everything right away. She doesn’t. Our twenty three years or a life time together pivots on this one point.

I married her for “ death do us part “ . I don’t feel any one should hurt. Especially me. I have no problem making a decision. Changing things I can affect and those affecting me. Those changes and unshared decisions she makes today crack our long term love.

I told her when I met her give me her hand, hold on, keep up, and have fun. I asked her not to cross me, ( by not talking to me and sharing her dreams and wishes before I see them turn the corner. ) I feel she has crossed me. :happens:

If I am her Dream Weaver, she is killing the dreamer.

She is getting better. I'm encouraging her. ( Serious effort and consideration will only stop me before. I leave and never return )

It is now on her at this time. Overall she is a great mother, lovely woman and my heart. Looking at us you would never know there are rocks on our shores. I do not like slamming into them.

Be honest with your mate is the advice I can give to everyone. Love hard. Love deep. Don’t take them for granted and always be considerate. If they can’t be then the options to remain in that relationship become yours.

Relationships do run their course. Divorce I heard this week it is down from 50% it is now at 35%. Are more couples staying together trying to work on issues, as deep?

Thank you for sharing something so
deeply personal with us... I pray
that everything works out for
the best for you and your
Beloved One...

Much Peace
& Love,
Akilah

I don't have time to address your post because I have a few things I need to do away from the computer today. But I just wanted you to know how much I appreciated what you shared with us and I will respond in more detail when I return.

Sister Akilah...blessings to you sister for showing our dear Brother some appreciation and well wishes for the best. Same to you sister.

Until later,
Queenie :heart:

Queenie.. i missed you dearly sis!
if ya mans a dirtball.. trust.. you aint gotta b the one to cut him to pieces..
another woman who dosent know how to control her temper however will.
Queenie
Why is it that one can go to court.. and be sworn in to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help they God. Or you are penalized by law. But.. you swear to the same God when you marry a woman.. yet the court holds you not accountable and forgives you for your mistake, and you can go on your way with a divorce. I will fight for my marriage...
I believe as that blk catholic does..
you marry one person even in death,
I cant give my husband a divorce..
i refuse to...
these matters are handled with such kid gloves when u get married,
but when you are ready to annull it or divorce.. its as easy as 123!
Why..
you go to the judge and request a license to get married.. swear to the same God, yet one is not held accountable.
Not only will my Husband not be able to divorce me (and yes i will make the same arguement as the one above :) ) but he will continue to take care of me and my family and provide half of all of our basic needs.
He will never .. over my dead body be able to marry again as long as I am alive.
And Ill be one of those ladies that repeats that phrase over n over.. so if my life ends abruptly... it is he that is looked at under a microscope... and his soul remnains in purgatory.. as the devils minions regurgitate it over and over again! (thats that ****** in me.. comin out..lol)

But no..
never a divorce. One marriage is enough for any person...

Advice...
Never pass the buck...
leave your baggage at the airport when landing in a new relationship.
Treat every man as if he had no faults..
Dont blame him for the mistakes of others..
But keep your ears and eyes open,
it is only when he reveals himself to be what you think he is not
that you let yourself be known.. not as a fool.
But a woman, who takes no *****!
Love with your heart and soul..
but think with your brain.

:couple:

Beautiful PoeticManifesta, thank you for your contribution to the discussion. Wow, sister, you sound very focused and aware of what you want in a man. It looks as though he'd better be ready for the long haul if he ever leads you to believe that he's committed to you.

At the rate that couples break up or divorce, it does make you wonder sometimes what went so terribly wrong and if they learned anything from the experience to avoid repeating it in the future.

Yes, some marriage vows do have in them, "until death do us part," which was explained to me recently by a Black Catholic. I always assumed it meant until ONE partner died, but they said it actually means until both die. So if one becomes a widow/widower (interesting terms), in the Catholic church's eyes, they are still married to the dead partner.

Sister, you appear as though you're the type of woman who abhors any type of disrespect or deceit in a relationship, but let me ask you, is anyone who is like this worth spending time in prison over? I understand the pain and disappointment that can develop when someone doesn't treat you the way you expect them to, but wouldn't it be better to step away from a relationship intact when the partner shows their weaknesses, rather than being pulled into their dysfunctional world and ruining your life too? Isn't your life worth living outside the walls of prison rather than inside behind bars?

I would suggest, knowing how seriously you feel about a commitment, to spend more time doing what you're doing, be very discerning when you are with a man so that you can cull the "good" from the "bad" and prepare for the days when he shows you all of who he is, even when it may not be who you thought he was or hoped he would be. Learn how to maintain a healthy balance of mind, body and spirit so that you can continue to be the beautiful sister that you are.

Based on your experiences in relationships, if you had any advice to give another sister, what would it be?



:spinstar:

Brother HODEE, the intimate view in which you've allowed us to see of you is heartwarming. Thank you for giving us insight as to how seriously committed and devoted some Black men are and can be to the women they love. You honor your wife by giving this testimony. I wish the best for you both as you continue this journey. Whichever way you write your final chapter as a couple, I hope that the life lessons you've learned along the way serve to make you better people.

Sister Poetic, your talents as a poet reveal so much about you, the person. The depth and passion in your poetry is a direct reflection of what's in your heart. My young warrior sister, I cannot argue with you on any point you made in your last post because I fully understand that what might work for me, may not work for you.

I admire you sister for knowing yourself as well as you do and also your deep commitment to the sacred union between a man and a women. Knowing how you feel about the vows that you will one day take, I can only hope that the man that stands next to you understands you completely and has every intention of honoring those vows that he says to you.

Queenie :heart:

Sister Riada,

Thank you for sharing your story. It looks as though you and your man are quite compatible. You wrote that you are a relationship-oriented person and always have been. What exactly does that mean and how does that play out in your life? Is there anything in particular that conveys that when you're in a relationship? Were you always this "together" in terms of knowing how you are or did this knowledge come to you through trial and error? Give us an example of a "relationship-busting" question.

If you had some advice to share with another sister about relationships, what would that be?

Queenie :spinstar:

What I mean by being relationship-oriented is that when I first meet a woman or man who I’m attracted to for whatever reason, I begin to establish the groundwork for a relationship. I may not know what type of relationship at that point, but the foundation of all worthwhile relationships to me include showing the person they are valuable to me, that I appreciate them. This means I talk to them in a certain respectful way. I’m helpful to them. I try to find commonalities. I draw attention to the qualities and traits in them that I find appealing.

I grew up in an environment (rural area) that encouraged my relationship orientation as opposed to an “encounter” orientation such as you’d find in a large urban area. The way this plays out in my life is that I treat people like they are valuable to me. I don’t treat people like they are not to be used and thrown away. As a result, I am still friendly or friends with men from all of my past relationships. I tend to have rich, multi-dimensional and long-lasting relationships with women too.

Examples of potentially relationship-busting discussions to have before a commitment is made.
1.What if I don’t like the way you spend money most of the time?
2.Suppose either of us can’t produce children and you desperately want them? What would you be willing to do to resolve this? Adoption? In vitro? Surrogate man or woman?
3.What if I really don’t like being around most of your family members?
4.What if you don’t satisfy me sexually and I get tired of faking it or settling?
5.What if I gain a substantial amount of weight and can’t or won’t lose it?
6.What would you do if I cheated on you?
7.Suppose you want to live “large” and I want the simple life.
8.Suppose I don’t want to be cornered in the gender role you have in mind for me.
9.Would you be willing to undergo in-depth marriage or relationship therapy if the relationship needed it?
10.Suppose we discovered that YOU need LOTS of therapy in order for the relationship to survive, would you be willing to get it?

My advice to women: Don’t talk yourself into being with a so-so man or less-than man just because you think it’s hard to find another man. There are PLENTY of men in the world who will love and cherish you in ways you can’t even imagine. You MUST feel worthy of the best treatment from a man and the first time a man tries to treat you like you’re less-than in any way, set him straight. If he does it again, start looking for another man. This may sound harsh but you'll avoid a lot of pain, bitterness, and wasted time if you do this. You will instead have the positive emotional energy and time to be with someone who loves you and someone you can trust and fully love.

Thank you Sister Riada for that very detailed and descriptive response. I like the way you described the different relationship orientations between rural and urban environments. Interesting view.

Also, I now have a much better understanding of what you meant earlier about relationship busting discussions. I can see where the topics you raised would require some significant and thought-provoking conversations between two people who are hoping to build a fulfilling and lasting relationship.

Sound advice too, sister. Although there haven't been too many people contributing to this discussion so far, I hope that those who want advice or need help in this area are reading and those who are wise and experienced, will add their thoughts.

Queenie :heart:

NNQueen


Honestly I am not ready for him but each and every day I'm in preparation. I believe the dawn of a new day means I'm getting closer. I can only do what I can, be obedient to the Lord and he will take care of the rest. In the meantime I pay attention to the lessons of life and appreciate the process.

I'm not actively seeking but I do know I have to be out there-- doing things living my life. I can't just be hidden and expect him to knock on the door and say tada are you ready? So in the meantime I work hard to stay true to me and what i believe.

I believe part of my being single now is by choice and circumstance if that makes sense. It is always important for me to know what I can and able to bring to the table. To be able to know what things I can bend on and what things I will not budge on.

No matter what there are some basic foundations that have to be established first.

I believe in the wedding vow which for me and my family explains why I'm still single. The marriage for me is sacred and a committment and I'm not into breaking committments. So granted nothing is guaranteed but if you come into something with eyes open knowing each others limitations and live honest lives not only to each other but to yourselves then 95% of the time I believe the marriage will work. Above all that my faith plays a big part in that-- so we start off unevenly yoked then it will remain that way.

I don't do the shacking up thing-- No offense to anyone that does. Call me old school but if I can get the steak and milk for free what is the point of buying and/or investing?

Right now, I don't know if I am ready for him.
But I make a myself a better person for him.
I takes time to look at me to make myself the type
of person I want to attract. They say,"u are the company
that u keep." But all know is,when I get him,make it official,that's it.
If he even try to leave me for Miss Kisha, the b***h betta have a big
enough house for me too, because I ain't going. Hearing that Jennifer Holliday song right now.

Sweet baby_face :gas: LOL "the b***h betta have a big
enough house for me too" so that means you wont break out tha :bazooka: ?


not mad at ya at all

I will cut off his head if he cheat on me!!!!!!!

Sister ZaKiYa....thank you for that eloquent response. No doubt the relationshp you are seeking with someone will come and it sounds as though you, at least, will be ready when he arrives.

As I read you, it made me wonder whether men tend to go through a "preparation" phase as well. Brother HODEE seemed to know what he liked and what he didn't like, but he pressed on with a determination that clearly caused me to think that he knew his purpose and took control of his destiny.

Sister baby_face, ummm you and Sister Poetic must have been talking to each other! :lol: I see I'm going to have to do some serious praying that not just any man comes stumbling up to your door steps. Thank you sister for responding and sharing with us what you are doing to prepare for your man. You sound very wise and I applaud and support what you're trying to do to be the type of person that you want to attract.

But this raises another question for me. Actually Sister Riada touched upon this somewhat in her comment about relationship busting questions.

How secure and capable are any of you sisters in being able to handle honesty? Knowing how you are now, how do you think you would react/respond IF your S/O came to you and told you that he had broken his vows to you?

Do either of you have any advice to give to sisters who may need it?

Queenie :heart:

I will cut off his head if he cheat on me!!!!!!!
Not a good plan,could cause jail time,maybe tie him up in the basement and put itching powder in his underwear.(Joke):tennis:

Not a good plan,could cause jail time,maybe tie him up in the basement and put itching powder in his underwear.(Joke):tennis:

LMAO!! :lol:

You're extremely funny!! :D

How secure and capable are any of you sisters in being able to handle honesty?
This is a tough one, because we all SAY we want honesty but we really don't. We just want to be secure and sometimes the truth makes us insecure. What if your man happens to glance at and be attracted to another female? This may make some people insecure, although it may be true. (esp. if that female is actively trying to get at him, but that's a whole 'nutha story).

Knowing how you are now, how do you think you would react/respond IF your S/O came to you and told you that he had broken his vows to you? Do either of you have any advice to give to sisters who may need it?
Ouch, well, having lived through this situation before I am not sure. Of course, you're going to be sad, but after the tears a few things have to happen. 1) Realize that his actions are not your fault. Period. No matter if he says you got fat or you don't cook for him or whatever lame exucse he gives. Problems within a relationship are NEVER solved by going outside of it. Bottom line sisters, we need to have an "it ain't my fault" attitude, otherwise we will drive ourselves crazy. 2) Decide if it's worth it to stay. If it is, then honestly try to find out why he did it and how to enhance the relationship (keeping in mind number 1). If you try to take yourself out of the equation to some degree and try to really understand what is happening in your relationship, you both can grow from it. It will take time to truly forgive.

And as a side note, I doubt many men will actually come forward admitting infidelity independent of any proof presented to them. In most cases, even proof will not erase the denial/lies.

LMAO!! :lol:

You're extremely funny!! :D

Thank you:laugh:

[QUOTE=NNQueen
How secure and capable are any of you sisters in being able to handle honesty? Knowing how you are now, how do you think you would react/respond IF your S/O came to you and told you that he had broken his vows to you?

Do either of you have any advice to give to sisters who may need it?

Queenie :heart:[/QUOTE]

Honesty is extremely difficult to handle for most people. However, it's extremely important to help to provide an atmosphere where your mate can be honest in a relationship. If not, he may not be able to be honest about his sexual desires or activities and this could be deadly these days.

My partner and I have discussed this. We've agreed that "cheating" these days has the potential to destroy health or even life. So considering what's at stake, we've decided we must offer each other a type of "amnesty" if this terrible situation does occur and IF it's admitted. Of course, it would be devastating if he cheated on me , but what would be far worse than devastating is if he cheats and doesn't tell me.

Either way the relationship may not survive, but at least the honesty could prevent diseases and keep trust from being destroyed.

very interesting on what women think and feel
and the fact if you ready or not .......................

continue on as i study more .

I see where a lot of sisters think honesty is important in a relationship. They claim they want a mate who is honest. It's always a quality they will mention on their "must have in a mate" list. Yet, how prepared are we really, for honest communication?

Is honest communication these days simply "tell me what you think I want to hear"? Are people afraid to be "honest" out of fear they will be viewed as too different than the rest of a group? Are we more inclined to "go along" out of fear of "being alone"? Going a step further, how honest are we really with our men and with ourselves?

How do sisters, literally, PREPARE themselves to receive the man with all the qualities they list that they want their man to have? Would you rather hear a lie or do you really want the truth? We claim we don't want our men to be "those" men that we don't like. But are we raising these types of boys to grow up to be the type of men we would like to have?

How do sisters prepare herself for the man she wants as well as the future generation of Black men?

Our stories will be different because we're each different. The point though, is that we are conscious of what we say and what we do, taking nothing and no one for granted, and never being a hypocrit.

I'll share some of my story. I had two separate relationships at different times that I chose to opt out of because the longer I stayed in them, I realized as I grew as a person, I had gotten into them for all the wrong reasons. One was a marriage, the other a long-term relationship. The longer I remained in them, I knew I wasn't being honest with these men and they deserved better than what I was giving. Eventually, as much as I could, I parted on fairly civil terms and we remain friends to this day.

I then chose to be "alone" because I didn't want to repeat the pattern. I knew something was missing, and I didn't want to continue not knowing what it was. I learned that there was MORE to building relationships than what I was taught or what I knew at that time. I needed more time to grow and know me first before I felt I could honestly share my existence on an intimate level with anyone.

It's been a journey where many "truths" have been revealed and tough as some have been for me, I've learned to embrace them all. I have since discovered that my former relationships were not "mistakes", they were meant to happen because I needed them to learn. In (quantitative) years, I am no longer a "young" woman. In spirit, I will always feel youthful. I liken myself to an explorer...a seeker of information. I love to learn. There is always work to be done on me, to continue to grow..it's a process that will continue to the end.

I "see" life differently now, more clearly, I'm more comfortable with who I am now and know me better. I'm ready...nervous with anticipation....but ready. The beauty of my process though is that whether HE comes or not, I can honestly say, I've enjoyed the journey.

Next....

Queenie :spinstar:

NNQueen, let me first say I applaud you for bringing your genuine nature to the boards, and bringing some "ease" to everyone. I don't know if it's that a lot of folks don't have that capacity, or if it's just that you have extraordinary communication skills to allow for calm discussion to actually occur. *shrugging shoulders* But, whatever "it" is, I thank you for it. :)

As for me, after being with someone(my ex) for 22 years, married for 19, I think the hardest issue for me to deal with, were those things I did wrong in the marriage that were unintentional. Those things where I just had to wonder, if I could have corrected those problems, would I still be married? Eventually, I came to realize that the answer to that was, no...

He made mistakes also, and I had to face up to all of those as well. But the main thing I had to face up to were my own mistakes, unintentional or not, and deal with those head on.

Often times at this point in this conversation, folks think that I mean an affair. Well no, I took my vows seriously, and never strayed. But I managed to let fear get in the way of my life, and it took it's toll. So after I dealt with the devastation of feeling that all of those years were shot, I had to deal with myself. And I came out of it, an even stronger person. And I also now feel that all of those years weren't a waste, when the marriage was good, it was very, very good.

My ex moved on with his life, he met someone, and recently remarried. My friends say, it probably won't work, lol, but I honestly hope that it does. As for me, my first calendar year was about making it through that year. If any male looked at me too hard I felt like running home and scrubbing myself with bleach. Yes, there were those who were ready, willing, and able to "comfort" me, lol. Even those who were well meaning, I had too much crap to deal with, and why open the door to "crazy". Now, some say I was crazy to have kept myself at bay as it were. But I had so much to deal with, I still think I made a good decision to keep that padded cell closed, lol, and not date. And even after the zany ness was over, I needed to just enjoy me, and show my kids that yes, I was upset, but not broken.

And now...I'm cautiously open to well, the future, and whatever that may bring. And at this point I'd like to say, Hodee, I appreciate you being so open and honest. It sounds like you are fighting to keep your relationship together, come what may, and I admire that in you. I hope that the two of you can make a go of it. True there is life after divorce, but the road is quite rocky, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who is still in love. I'm rooting for you guys.

Okay, enough about me...next...

Sister watzinaname, thank you for your kind words and thank you for sharing your story. We all have stories to tell that others can learn from and benefit by. Thank you beautiful sister.

Queenie :heart:

Are you ready ladies? Will you be misled or will he misled you?

The clues are at the beginning of any relationship. All the signs. I overlooked one. I for gave one. Now after twenty three years. It becomes hard change. Hard decision time. My wife says you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

I say bust the box.

What do you really want to do?

It doesn't have a direct effect on my love. It does change the interaction and intimacy. Her father is selfish. I know where she got this. Taking those close to you for granted as parents will be transfered to your children if you take them for granted as well.

This is a great post sister NNQueen.

In this post I am going to get intimate. Don’t misunderstand. There are no false realities in my vision. If you see only negative read again. You read this post wrong.



Asimplepoet posted that their mate said bring more or something to the table.

I knew my wife was the one. I wanted to date. Then marry.

I knew at first glance and didn't know her name. I introduced myself, thru a female cousin of mine. My wife was shy, and her father was strict. She slammed her door and it took another two years to get to her front door again to say hello.

I started dating my wife in high school. We had a great college life for two years on campus while I attended. Two years with only her there and me visiting ( drove three hundred miles one way ) every other weekend. We talked on the phone for hours every Friday. She never wanted for money. I started buying her clothes and what ever she desired. I even wrote love letters she kept and her sister found and read. ( Those were intimate and wow I hope I didn't get detailed ) She never had to catch a bus, or be without a car. When the one her father gave her was getting old and costly it was sold. I bought her one her one her last two years of college.

To me I still didn't have what I wanted to bring to the table.

I said to my wife I wanted to bring more or something to offer to the table.
My graduation present after she graduated was a house and the proposal I promised years earlier to marry her.

The house she never saw. I was twenty had a five bedroom home and all I had to do was sign the papers. I didn't sign, because I knew that home was captured by my efforts for her and me. I no longer saw us together. HUD was giving me one for $1.00 ( another twist in relationships and why it is important to communicate everything, all concerns and issues. Be open and honest in every aspect of a relationship )

She graduated, received a ticket to leave Missouri for California. Everyone knew. I was not told. Until she graduated. A mistake on her part. She left for all the wrong reasons. She wanted to go and didn't trust I would understand. It hurt so much. I said bye and didn't see her to the airport. Yes my love didn't share with me like she should have; we separated for six hard months.

Family and friends talked to me and she wrote me letters every day it seems. I played the cad and never wrote back. Seriously I was missing my woman. I quit two jobs, with my boss’s help I got unemployment. I gave away my bike, car and van, helped my sister get a home thru HUD for $1.00 and packed my clothes. Left with a promise of unemployment two hundred dollars and a one way ticket. Three years later we married and bought our first house in California.

I believe it is a mans job and responsibility to provide for his love and those depending on him.

This year I will be married twenty three years. ( I know no intimacy of another. I take my vows serious and don't need. Nor have the desire to hurt, mislead, or use another for my pleasure principle.

( A real word in the dictionary )

My life’s trials and tribulations and desired level of intimacy are never thrusted on another woman creating her pain. Nor will I bring my wife any pain by cheating. My sexual drive is astronomical but under my control. Real intimacy is between your ears, and in your chest the other pleasures enhance.

To me it is more than a song Janet Jackson capitalized on.

I discuss hard open issues. We discuss the truth as much as it hurts us both. I don't show pain and sorrow the same way she does, but ( life has a way of clouding vision – not mine but hers right now ) x-ray my heart and it’s sincere and there. Not all of those years have been without bumps. I work to always keep her road smooth.

The some riffs have been related to money. ( I took all her credit cards once. All but one and she felt helpless ) Like the rule my family has I will not let money control how I deal with disagreements or damage a relationship worth working on. I can get money and have no concerns that I can’t make something great happen.

My personal observation and attitude thru every one of those years has been things aren't that bad. We are still blessed.

The trouble is getting her ( the last few years ) to change and give me more consideration.

I have always come to the table with honesty and trust. She has to ( this is the clouding of her vision ) Reflecting back... I have never let her down. Never went a day without funding the essentials I enjoy or she asked me for )

I have always been there, I said so to her when I met her, it was a promise I made and mean today and will always will honor. The key is discussing the truth, understanding the truth and to keep moving on combined and considerate goals.


Do you have to love everything about you, or can you love some things and not others and still "love" yourself? Can you love something’s about someone and not others and still "love" them?

“ Can you love something’s about someone and not others and still "love" them? “

Yes you can.

NNQueen I don’t love everything about me. I don’t like the approach I have to take sometimes to get problems solved. I take influence over me serious.

What I constantly work on is any pain I bring to my spouse. She says I do . I don’t believe it but I take her concerns serious. I know down deep she is selfish. A huge personality trait. Deserving change.

I love her. She still clues me in last. She asks me to come thru and be by her side after she makes another relationship effecting decision without me. Expecting me like she did. When she left for California. I am not a door mat. I don’t like being walked on. I can make the truth hurt. So I am working on that. But I won't stop driving the truth.

I am working on the vision with my wife and I ask her all the time to trust me. I ask her to make the changes that would make our road smooth. This one aspect of her personality. She knows I love her, and has even said once. She knows I will be there. I think she bases this on the fact I do love her. But truth. I won’t remain for the neglect. My kids are grown and my love for them won’t allow me to leave them without a start in life. My wife will be Ok too. We are purchasing a second home and I told her I may not be going with her.

Sometimes in matters she doesn’t see things as clear as she should. I ask her to trust on blind faith in those times. In some ways I feel I am taken for granted and in some cases I know she takes me for granted. She is the only one allowed in this life at this time to do so.

Today, now my attitude is this must change so we don’t find ourselves disagreeing. I share everything right away. She doesn’t. Our twenty three years or a life time together pivots on this one point.

I married her for “ death do us part “ . I don’t feel any one should hurt. Especially me. I have no problem making a decision. Changing things I can affect and those affecting me. Those changes and unshared decisions she makes today crack our long term love.

I told her when I met her give me her hand, hold on, keep up, and have fun. I asked her not to cross me, ( by not talking to me and sharing her dreams and wishes before I see them turn the corner. ) I feel she has crossed me. :happens:

If I am her Dream Weaver, she is killing the dreamer.

She is getting better. I'm encouraging her. ( Serious effort and consideration will only stop me before. I leave and never return )

It is now on her at this time. Overall she is a great mother, lovely woman and my heart. Looking at us you would never know there are rocks on our shores. I do not like slamming into them.

Be honest with your mate is the advice I can give to everyone. Love hard. Love deep. Don’t take them for granted and always be considerate. If they can’t be then the options to remain in that relationship become yours.

Relationships do run their course. Divorce I heard this week it is down from 50% it is now at 35%. Are more couples staying together trying to work on issues, as deep?

Everything will work out honey.

.

But this raises another question for me. Actually Sister Riada touched upon this somewhat in her comment about relationship busting questions.

How secure and capable are any of you sisters in being able to handle honesty? Knowing how you are now, how do you think you would react/respond IF your S/O came to you and told you that he had broken his vows to you?

Do either of you have any advice to give to sisters who may need it?

Queenie :heart:[/QUOTE]


First and foremost hardly any man will come home and say "hey boo them biscuits sure do smell great:welldone: ,guess what I did today? I had an affair at a hoochie motel during lunch:happens: , what about you honey?
Men and women can sit down and talk about what type of relationship they want.
We can say we will not cheat and some will mean it.
My thing is when opportunity presents it's self will you take it?
At what point in your relationship do you know you would never stray versus thinking about it when things go wrong .
We all want to be sure we have the perfect man,loyal,good looking,hardworking,protector a king of kings,just like a man wants to think he has a beautiful ,loving , caring and devoted wife but these people we have come to know and love will possibly cheat.The main facotr is to think before you react!
The thing is as a woman you will be crushed,angry,even revengeful but when you get threw burning his brief case up and selling his expensive suits 2 for a dollar,,will you stay or will you try and work it out?(not that I would know anything about that violent but gratifying behaviour(sp)):coffee:
You know trust is very very important, it can keep you together or tear you apart! When you love someone it is not easy to say goodbye but when they betray your trust, it feels like you never knew them anyway.

NNQueen, let me first say I applaud you for bringing your genuine nature to the boards, and bringing some "ease" to everyone. I don't know if it's that a lot of folks don't have that capacity, or if it's just that you have extraordinary communication skills to allow for calm discussion to actually occur. *shrugging shoulders* But, whatever "it" is, I thank you for it. :)

As for me, after being with someone(my ex) for 22 years, married for 19, I think the hardest issue for me to deal with, were those things I did wrong in the marriage that were unintentional. Those things where I just had to wonder, if I could have corrected those problems, would I still be married? Eventually, I came to realize that the answer to that was, no...

He made mistakes also, and I had to face up to all of those as well. But the main thing I had to face up to were my own mistakes, unintentional or not, and deal with those head on.

Often times at this point in this conversation, folks think that I mean an affair. Well no, I took my vows seriously, and never strayed. But I managed to let fear get in the way of my life, and it took it's toll. So after I dealt with the devastation of feeling that all of those years were shot, I had to deal with myself. And I came out of it, an even stronger person. And I also now feel that all of those years weren't a waste, when the marriage was good, it was very, very good.

My ex moved on with his life, he met someone, and recently remarried. My friends say, it probably won't work, lol, but I honestly hope that it does. As for me, my first calendar year was about making it through that year. If any male looked at me too hard I felt like running home and scrubbing myself with bleach. Yes, there were those who were ready, willing, and able to "comfort" me, lol. Even those who were well meaning, I had too much crap to deal with, and why open the door to "crazy". Now, some say I was crazy to have kept myself at bay as it were. But I had so much to deal with, I still think I made a good decision to keep that padded cell closed, lol, and not date. And even after the zany ness was over, I needed to just enjoy me, and show my kids that yes, I was upset, but not broken.

And now...I'm cautiously open to well, the future, and whatever that may bring. And at this point I'd like to say, Hodee, I appreciate you being so open and honest. It sounds like you are fighting to keep your relationship together, come what may, and I admire that in you. I hope that the two of you can make a go of it. True there is life after divorce, but the road is quite rocky, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who is still in love. I'm rooting for you guys.

Okay, enough about me...next...

Wow Thank You Akilah, NNQueen, Watz and all who wish me the best no matter how I twist. It doesn't hurt to twist and be twisted. Just kiss me I ask. :smooch: LOL baby fix me some :coffee: too.

I said earlier my wife and I have some very deep conversations. We do some of them I will share. I usally initiate them. This is why and it is directly contributed to what uplift19 wrote:

This is a tough one, because we all SAY we want honesty but we really don't. We just want to be secure and sometimes the truth makes us insecure. What if your man happens to glance at and be attracted to another female? This may make some people insecure, although it may be true. (esp. if that female is actively trying to get at him, but that's a whole 'nutha story).

I want to also modify something I wrote too.. I have been with this woman in my life for thirty-three years. All of them only with her. Married for twenty three this May.. and we do celebrate them all.

When I sit down with my wife and the discussions of reality and concern begin. She doesn't want to discuss it really. So it hurts her feeling sometimes. Not like they used to. She told me " I can take anything now. She in my eyes needed that growth.

This is little about her over all. I don't want to paint her as a weak woman.. she is far from that. She has been the captain first of me. I am and still concider myself her crew. She has taken on the role of bread provider when I couldn't even get a job for four out the many years we have been together. Since our lives are open, conversation wise. She doen't hesitate to call me on the carpet if she thinks I may be acting up! Great mother to our two children, tireless in efforts and drive only a woman possess, great provider ( only bread winner the past two and a half years. I got re-employed just Dec. of last year ) , direct and a decision maker, winning smile, professional well educated. I thank God she is a part of my life.

I think I kept silent about concerns for a long time because the things I saw I first couldn't believe. " My woman taking me for granted." No.. look again. Recalulate, couldn't be true. She wouldn't do her main squeeze like that. Double check. And it took me a period of time to get her ready for the question answer sessions. I didn't want to hurt her and bring my misunderstood perception if that is what it was into the picture. So the first question I opened up to her was. " Do you feel your taking me for granted. " No accusations.. question first. She said " No " Then I after I laid out a few key reasons why I would ask such a silly question. She concluded " It was true and the healing in my mind was in process.. for us both.

It has been a long and heavy burden to tow. Those past concerns and questions. The future ones can come up now too.. plans, expectations, desires. She has a multitude of the last too, and I am not afraid.. I want to step to be her only.. but baby I need something too. " YOU " %100 not a 50/50.

I learned this in life true or not I believe it. I am half of a whole as a couple. So is she. But you must give %100 of yourself to your mate in dating or marriage. Because if things hit a rock.. you still have a great foundation to pull back onto. Good times no riff no raff, no cheating hearts.

Not another lady or man calling your cell and stuff and if they do. We still trust and don't get into those questions. Other men call her, it is her business, other woman call me it is mine. If she ask me or I ask her about it. It is always related to business, information, support for something. The trust in that part of the arena is well established and no secrets. Its open season on my love with her. Unless we steer this ship into calmer waters and know we have the past buried and the future secure in our sails. We won't sail into another storm. And on the sea of life the next one is just over the horizon.

I work hard to deliver the real gently but the truth hurts. I love this woman and I need her to be real with me as well at all times.

So the conversations begin. Its open season on questions /answers. I asked her once, are you having an affair. She said no. I then volunteered my position. I am not having one on you, never have and never will. I wouldn't do that to you. Nor bring drama putting another woman in your face about what we have or don't together. These conversations go very, very, deep sometimes. Anything goes when we have them. No anger if it can be avoided. There is some, sometimes.. hell the truth isn't easy to swallow.

During these conversations since I open most of them up. I am ready to I console her if need be. I am not a heartless cad. Again I love her. I want the best for us both together or apart. I truly care about her happiness.

I know I crieid once, and teared up many times. But the next day, were shopping, holding hands and discussing some things more pleasant. Having drinks and I know her inside out. So I deliver those things she loves without hesitation and being told. I don't need to ask my woman what she wants to drink or eat. I have made the meals, blended her favorites.

I give her all the respect she deserves.

As I read you, it made me wonder whether men tend to go through a "preparation" phase as well. Brother HODEE seemed to know what he liked and what he didn't like, but he pressed on with a determination that clearly caused me to think that he knew his purpose and took control of his destiny

Thank you NNQueen I think we do. I did. All I based it on is. Can I talk freely, open and honest with her. Can trust her, with my money and chidren when we had them. Will she fold under external pressure and give second seat to other whims to be by my side in thick and thin times. I knew I could deliver with the best. And just needed to search out some one with most of those qualitys up front.

If a person has 50% of the qualifications the other 50% they may grow into, but I was willing to accept someone. Trying very hard not to change what I found attractive about them. And what drew me into them in the first place.

And now...I'm cautiously open to well, the future, and whatever that may bring. And at this point I'd like to say, Hodee, I appreciate you being so open and honest. It sounds like you are fighting to keep your relationship together, come what may, and I admire that in you. I hope that the two of you can make a go of it. True there is life after divorce, but the road is quite rocky, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who is still in love. I'm rooting for you guys.

Thank you Watz... Speaking of a fight. I see that every day I must be willing to get in the ring ( fighting work place romance, co-worker attention, outside influence, family both hers and mine influence, you name it bring em on... this fight has unlimited rounds ) and compete for my wifes love. My record is 32 - 0 and so far I am still the champion that can get a hug and a kiss from her after the battles. I love you all.. thanks

Your quite welcome NNQueen, no we never know who we may help when we share our experiences, so true.



This is little about her over all. I don't want to paint her as a weak woman.. she is far from that. She has been the captain first of me. I am and still concider myself her crew. She has taken on the role of bread provider when I couldn't even get a job for four out the many years we have been together. Since our lives are open, conversation wise. She doen't hesitate to call me on the carpet if she thinks I may be acting up! Great mother to our two children, tireless in efforts and drive only a woman possess, great provider ( only bread winner the past two and a half years. I got re-employed just Dec. of last year ) , direct and a decision maker, winning smile, professional well educated. I thank God she is a part of my life.



That's some description, Hodee. You know, I have yet to meet that many weak people, just folks who unfortunately have undergone some heinous situations. I know in my own case, when most people hear more of the specifics of my life and not just the highlights, they tend to just look at me and stare in disbelief. I realize that there are poor souls who have been strapped in straight jackets for much less.
She sounds wonderful, all the more reason why the two of you have been together for so long, and will continue to do so. Your post is very inspirational to those who think that everyone has just given up on the whole institution of marriage. :welldone:

Awwwwwwww........
that's so beautiful,HODEE!!
Got a chick ova here blushin' and stuff.

Sisters, when you're irritable, tired and need some "me" time, how do you communicate this to someone who obviously wants to spend time with you?

When your mate wants to be intimate with you and you're not in the "mood", how do you say no, or do you?

When your mate is irritable and you want to cuddle, but he's not responding the way you would like him to, how do you react?

If you spend hours getting ready to spend time with your mate for a special occasion and he doesn't compliment you, OR, he tells you he doesn't like your hair or your outfit but if you change that will make you late for your reservations, what do you do?

If you're out in public and your mate stares at another attractive woman, she passes you by and he watches her walk away, what happens next?

You've been on several dates with your mate and he has never opened a door for you before to enter a room, a car, anywhere, and it bothers you, but you never told him that's what you would like for him to do, but you can't get it off your mind. What would you do?

You and your mate are having a disagreement and neither of you can seem to see the other's point of view. You've veen discussing for a while to the point that both of you are obviously frustrated with the situation and you walk away. How do you make the situation better?

Queenie :heart:

NNQUEEN: "Sisters, when you're irritable, tired and need some "me" time, how do you communicate this to someone who obviously wants to spend time with you?"

I shouldn't have to communicate anything. My s/o already knows when I'm tired and irritable. If he has that much time on his hands to want "spend time" while I'm seriously overworked, then he should be helping to pick up the slack. I normally bury my nose in a good book:book: to let him know I don't want to be bothered at the moment. He knows this. If he approached me, I'll let him know I'm not in the mood, give him a kiss, and tell him to give me about 30 minutes to recover. But if it's something simple that he needs like a quick back rub, then I'll suggest he rub mine first, afterward I'll rub his.

NNQUEEN: "When your mate is irritable and you want to cuddle, but he's not responding the way you would like him to, how do you react?"

I will withdraw, and let him know how I feel about him rejecting me. Usually, I can pick up on his vibe.

NNQUEEN: "If you spend hours getting ready to spend time with your mate for a special occasion and he doesn't compliment you, OR, he tells you he doesn't like your hair or your outfit but if you change that will make you late for your reservations, what do you do?"

LOL......I'd probably roll w/o him. Naaa, I have my own mind, but I would've asked what he thinks about the outfit and hair first, since he is the main one I aim to impress in such an event. I'd also question him on what's more important, keeping our reservation, or my image?

NNQUEEN: "If you're out in public and your mate stares at another attractive woman, she passes you by and he watches her walk away, what happens next?"

I wouldn't be bothered much, but I'll question his motive in being with me, especially if he does it constantly, or if our relationship is on the rocks at that particuar time. That's rude. I'll ask him if he's o.k. out loud. That's embarrassing when men do that. Honestly I'd make sure he takes notice when the next man stares me down. LOL.Never know what you got till it's gone:happens:

NNQUEEN: "You've been on several dates with your mate and he has never opened a door for you before to enter a room, a car, anywhere, and it bothers you, but you never told him that's what you would like for him to do, but you can't get it off your mind. What would you do?"

I'm not too caught up on chivalry, but a man must be respectful and treat me like a Lady if he expects me to treat him as Man. If he never opened a door, I wouldn't want to be bothered! Even if I don't demand that from him, I 'd expect for it to be in him to do so. It shows they care.

NNQUEEN: "You and your mate are having a disagreement and neither of you can seem to see the other's point of view. You've veen discussing for a while to the point that both of you are obviously frustrated with the situation and you walk away. How do you make the situation better?"

Honestly, I wouldn't be in a relationship with a man who I disagree with all the time. I base my relationships on common interests, trust, respect, and attraction. I enjoy peace. If it came down to that, and we couldn't get along, i'd suggest we go out for a walk in a park or something, therefore we can release emotions and energy while coming to an understanding. If the weather ain't right, there are other "indoor" activities
we can engage in yaddda mean.:coffee:

Thanks Sister Spicy...now let's wait to hear from our other sisters so that we can continue to learn where we are diverse and where we are similar.

Queenie :spinstar:

Hmmmm... :read: thought provoking indeed!

Yanno sister ironically enough a few sistahs and I sat around the other night discussing this very same topic. The few of us have met up at the same cultural events and bonded over it. As we were sitting there one night while some of the children put away their drums, we saw a sister who a few of the brothas had penned as "desparate" attempting to hit on another married man smh. As we walked out we got to talking about what WE as Blak QUEENs have done or do to prepare for the KING made for us. A few of the sistahs had been married before... they shared very similar stories as sistah spicy... they found themselves being FOUND by their KINGS when they stopped actively "SEARCHING" and began to turn that energy toward self. When they started to turn that wasted energy worrying over make up tones and turned it towards their own physical health & spiritual wellness, it seemed they began to attract KINGs into their presence.

Another sister along with myself both shared the experience of being in a household that raised us to always be "IN PREPARATION" of our "KING" When I was younger my mother & grandmother NEVER put emphasis on "beauty" they put it on "health" spiritually, mentally, and physically. Your beauty will manifest if you focus on your WHOLISTIC WELLNESS. My mother would take it upon herself to purchase me books of Afro-American Art and point out to me the beauty that was in the talents of our people. My grandmother would read bits of the history to me and then sit there and talk about the sacrifices that built our existence. I was made to believe that even if my KING never found me... I was to ALWAYS remain a QUEEN so I should never stop carrying myself as one.

NOW... that I am grown. I go to lengths to keep myself healthy. I eat healthy to nourish my body, I read healthy to nourish my mind, and I meditate & pray daily to nurture my spirit. My sister friend and I both agreed that we try to keep our recipes in the kitchen & elsewhere (:look: ;) lol) in tact so that when time does come. We will be able to feed and care for our King...in all aspects :read: :D . ALL of us sistahs also, keep up to date with the way media is perpetuating our kings because we all agreed, you must always be aware of the enemies position because they aim for our HEART... <Blak MAN>, and we found that when you invest so much of your spirit in preparation and education you attain a certain respect, reverence, and a spirit deep love & adoration that all around you are affected by.

My nieces & God-daughters can often be found in my bedroom looking at the various blak art on my walls. I usually come in there and lay on my bed and color with them or read with them and while talking and sharing I spread the same love and affinity that I have manifested for my brotha Kings. One of my nieces loves to come in my room and do her homework at the foot of the piece I have by a sistah called Monica Stewart it is a King & his sistah Queen in an embrace in what looks like mid-dance. She loves it though, says it makes her feel safe, but I digress. I mention that to point out that we as sistahs who love and adore our Kings must do as much as is at our disposal to relate to the next generation the value of their relationships with their Kings. But perhaps that is another thread in and of itself :)

ANYYYWHO... I personally dont actively "seek" heck even saying it makes me feel silly lol. But I make myself "accesible", that meaning, when I am spoken to I speak, when in passing I speak even if they dont speak back. I go out of my way to smile and compliment my brothas & sistahs because I feel there isnt enough of it goin around for us to be stingy lol. I dont play "games" I am VERY upfront very blunt very straight forward and for some reason... it works. I attract my fair share, I am no model, (not even close LOL way too fat for that lol) but I dont feel destitute to find a man. My spirit keeps my horizons open and my heart free and when the right one comes along... I cant say what it is EXACTLY that will clue me in. ( I highly doubt that there is a cheat sheet online that would tell me yes/no anyway) Its why I meditate, pay attention, read, study, learn, and focus my energies so that HOPEFULLY I will just KNOW it is him :)

I dont think its necessary to live with someone before you get married in certain ways it defeats the purposes of getting married ANYWAY. Go through all that just to do what you are already doing?!? :confused: nah uh honey smh. Your continual proximity with someone does NOT determine if youre compatible... TIME determines that. Time MUST be invested in each other to learn if you are compatible. REAL QUALITY TIME.

As far as being married goes Queenie beanie my stance on it is this... TRULY I dont care to have a big wedding I just want a nice small ceremony where I can celebrate my union with my newfound King. I dont believe till "death do us part" BUT I do believe in learning and growing together and much of that will be admitting faults and forgiving wrongs. (that is... IF I do get married LOL I just may not time will only tell) My reasons for wanting it ON PAPER arent as simple as "proof"... our love is our proof... but I want it on paper because we are in a white mans society and you have to play the game and not forget your place. In the struggle I need every weapon I can to defend my man... that piece of paper may be the one thing that helps get me through certain byways to protect, defend, and speak for my man when need be. Its a matter of better safe than sorry.

But again...:read: thats one sistahs humble two pence :)

That's why I really admire you Sister Triskit. The women in your family have great wisdom and what an honor to have them pass it down to the younger generations. It's apparent you paid attention, because you are wise too. I've never thought of marriage that way; a way to protect your man. What a novel way of thinking and one that makes a lot of sense to me.

Reading all the comments made by my sisters, I wonder why some Black men are having a difficult time meeting women like you. If you notice in the sexual incompatibility thread that Brother Samurai started, it's more than enough to make you wonder where they are spending their time if they are searching for their mates. I read what they write and sense their genuine desire to understand, but after reading my sisters, it makes me wonder what these men are looking for or if they really know.

I keep telling them that women like are real...you exist...but for some strange reason, they aren't connecting with you. Now, I'm not trying to start an argument or point the finger, but you can't help but notice how some of our Brothers here are less than happy with Black women. In fact, I believe we get far more credit for the ills in our community than we deserve. But, nevertheless, our men still think we're a large part of their problem.

I simply want us to consider the sentiments expressed by some of our brothers, specifically Brothers Kente and Samurai (and even Kemestry) to continue this discussion. Brother Kente believes that AA women are spoiled, particularly in a certain age range. As such they are not attractive to him and leads him in the direction of exploring women outside the U.S.

Brother Samurai's experiences with Black women leads him to believe that we have a lot of sexual inhibitions, hang ups etc. Another brother (can't remember who it was exactly) was with a sister that seemed to be more worried about her hair and nails and less being sexually creative. Brother Samurai went so far as to describe us as having traits that clearly make us certifiable to any clinical psychologist, I'm sure.

Not saying that any of us meet the definition of either of these brothers, but if these men represent the average single Black man who wants to find his "Queen", how does a sister prepare herself to face these types of issues?

Queenie :spinstar:

There are many ways we can grow as a person but I found this has little to do with being in a committed relationship. A relationship requires us to grow in ways that never come up when we are single. In fact, many of the things that make us stong as single women can be drawbaccks in a relationship.

No, we don't want to hear that but it's true. When I was single if I wanted to go somewhere I'd pull on my shoes, count my money, grab my keys and go. But in a relationship I have to think about someone else besides me.

I found out I am a selfish person. I never thought of myself that way. I thought I was very generous. Whatever anyone needs if I have it I will give it to them as long as an emergency doesn't become a habit.

But a relationship is not about giving. It's about sharing. It's easier to give a $100 than it is to share a dollar. Cause once I give the $100 I'm through with it. In a relationship my needs have to be met with a dollar that has to meet someone else's needs too and they have an equal say as to what is to be done with MY dollar.

So I guess the most important thing a single woman can do to prepare for her man is to be ready to accept change. Be ready to trust another human being into your personal space. Be ready to stop thinging of it as MY dollar but rather as OUR dollar.

There are many ways we can grow as a person but I found this has little to do with being in a committed relationship. A relationship requires us to grow in ways that never come up when we are single. In fact, many of the things that make us stong as single women can be drawbaccks in a relationship.
No, we don't want to hear that but it's true. When I was single if I wanted to go somewhere I'd pull on my shoes, count my money, grab my keys and go. But in a relationship I have to think about someone else besides me.

I found out I am a selfish person. I never thought of myself that way. I thought I was very generous. Whatever anyone needs if I have it I will give it to them as long as an emergency doesn't become a habit.

But a relationship is not about giving. It's about sharing. It's easier to give a $100 than it is to share a dollar. Cause once I give the $100 I'm through with it. In a relationship my needs have to be met with a dollar that has to meet someone else's needs too and they have an equal say as to what is to be done with MY dollar.

So I guess the most important thing a single woman can do to prepare for her man is to be ready to accept change. Be ready to trust another human being into your personal space. Be ready to stop thinging of it as MY dollar but rather as OUR dollar.

How you been sister :grouphug: I missed you round these parts :) Are you still down south? If not I think you should move to chicago *lQQkin* hehehe Annnnywho...

Sister River you bring up so many valid points...
and youre right we dont always want to hear it but we need to. I found out a LOT about myself the first time I was in a serious relationship with a brotha. WHEW smh "selfish" is only the beginning of it lol I realized how demanding I was and as true as Queenie is about my mother and grandmother, APPLICATION is still mine.

I had the wisdom but I had yet to apply it. I remember wayyyy back when I first came to destee.com we had a discussion in chat about individualism and its dangerously alluring affects on sistahs. Through our discussion we had agreed that many sistahs often get so embelished in the "INDEPENDENT WOMAN" scenario that we are distracted from our roots. Our ORIGINAL union with our Kings.

For what its worth I know that all our sistahs arent this way but... what do you sistahs think about this as a possibility?

and ya know what beanie Dip....
That's why I really admire you Sister Triskit. The women in your family have great wisdom and what an honor to have them pass it down to the younger generations. It's apparent you paid attention, because you are wise too. I've never thought of marriage that way; a way to protect your man. What a novel way of thinking and one that makes a lot of sense to me.

Reading all the comments made by my sisters, I wonder why some Black men are having a difficult time meeting women like you. If you notice in the sexual incompatibility thread that Brother Samurai started, it's more than enough to make you wonder where they are spending their time if they are searching for their mates. I read what they write and sense their genuine desire to understand, but after reading my sisters, it makes me wonder what these men are looking for or if they really know.

I keep telling them that women like are real...you exist...but for some strange reason, they aren't connecting with you. Now, I'm not trying to start an argument or point the finger, but you can't help but notice how some of our Brothers here are less than happy with Black women. In fact, I believe we get far more credit for the ills in our community than we deserve. But, nevertheless, our men still think we're a large part of their problem.

I simply want us to consider the sentiments expressed by some of our brothers, specifically Brothers Kente and Samurai (and even Kemestry) to continue this discussion. Brother Kente believes that AA women are spoiled, particularly in a certain age range. As such they are not attractive to him and leads him in the direction of exploring women outside the U.S.

Brother Samurai's experiences with Black women leads him to believe that we have a lot of sexual inhibitions, hang ups etc. Another brother (can't remember who it was exactly) was with a sister that seemed to be more worried about her hair and nails and less being sexually creative. Brother Samurai went so far as to describe us as having traits that clearly make us certifiable to any clinical psychologist, I'm sure.

Not saying that any of us meet the definition of either of these brothers, but if these men represent the average single Black man who wants to find his "Queen", how does a sister prepare herself to face these types of issues?

Queenie :spinstar:
... Aint it somewhat depressin lol Because I know that you know that we know WE arent like that, and can think of sistahs around us who we are close with who arent as well. So what am I missing sisters?? Granted I am very well aware of the power of a sistah, but where do we go from here?

I consider myself able and ready to defend and heal what I can when I meet brothas like Kente & Sam who are so disenchanted with us sistahs but *WHEW* a sistah aint no energizer bunny :nuts:

what can we sistahs in the COMMUNITY do?

How you been sister :grouphug: I missed you round these parts :) Are you still down south? If not I think you should move to chicago *lQQkin* hehehe Annnnywho...

Hey sista Trin! Yes, I'm still down heah going to school and whatnot. This bible belt is trying to whip my tail but I'm not taking no crap:D. Chi Town sonds good. There's so many destee folks up there. I'd get up there and not know who to hug first.

Sister River you bring up so many valid points...
and youre right we dont always want to hear it but we need to. I found out a LOT about myself the first time I was in a serious relationship with a brotha. WHEW smh "selfish" is only the beginning of it lol I realized how demanding I was and as true as Queenie is about my mother and grandmother, APPLICATION is still mine.

I had the wisdom but I had yet to apply it. I remember wayyyy back when I first came to destee.com we had a discussion in chat about individualism and its dangerously alluring affects on sistahs. Through our discussion we had agreed that many sistahs often get so embelished in the "INDEPENDENT WOMAN" scenario that we are distracted from our roots. Our ORIGINAL union with our Kings.

For what its worth I know that all our sistahs arent this way but... what do you sistahs think about this as a possibility?and ya know what beanie Dip....

Yea and it ain't so much about being individualistic or even selfish but that feeling of being alone in a relationship and unprotected emotionally. Then we hafta do what we hafta do. But that's not conducive to building oneness. And oneness is what we want. But then there's this cat standing there with a fully loaded AK-47 telling me to let my guard down. lol

They are our kings. I feel like what I have to offer them is way beyond a relationship and what they need from me runs deeper than romance. [QUOTE]I

Would hitting the lotto be easier than solving this mystery?

I don't know that we can come up with answers to address the problems that Brothers like Samurai and Kente have expressed because really, it's all about the individual. Not every brother, obviously, that has had similar experiences, have drawn the same conclusions or made the same choices as they have. So what does that mean? Not sure, but maybe it's not sisters that are the problem, but the way brothers deal with the cards that life deals them.

Brother Kente seems to be comfortable with his conclusions and ready to move on in the direction he has chosen. Brother Samurai, on the other hand, might find it helpful to engage in some dialogue on the open mic in the chatroom. Sometimes chatting can accomplish more than discussion threads. But that's up to him. If he's interested in setting a time, I'd be happy to participate.

Next....

Queenie :spinstar:

Would hitting the lotto be easier than solving this mystery?

I don't know that we can come up with answers to address the problems that Brothers like Samurai and Kente have expressed because really, it's all about the individual. Not every brother, obviously, that has had similar experiences, have drawn the same conclusions or made the same choices as they have. So what does that mean? Not sure, but maybe it's not sisters that are the problem, but the way brothers deal with the cards that life deals them.

Brother Kente seems to be comfortable with his conclusions and ready to move on in the direction he has chosen. Brother Samurai, on the other hand, might find it helpful to engage in some dialogue on the open mic in the chatroom. Sometimes chatting can accomplish more than discussion threads. But that's up to him. If he's interested in setting a time, I'd be happy to participate.

Next....

Queenie :spinstar:

*sigh* (again) Truthfully sister... I am starting to feel like "why bother?" Okay for example... I know there are sistahs that have tried to encourage brotha Kente (but hes still pretty much in the same mind state that he was to begin with) AND as far as Samurai goes smh... Sister River often complimented and encouraged him and *mercy smh* I gathered ALL the brazen boldness I had and showered that brotha with compliments & encouragement just show him how wonderful I believe he is IN FRONT of the forum at that and he STILL found nothing but negativity and reason to further his state of "BLAK WOMAN DEPRESSION" :(

I have become SO sadened by the threads I have read here its why I stopped replying to the other thread about "APPROACHING BLAK WOMEN" in a sense sister I am starting to understand why some sisters just dont bother with those types of conversations. SEX seems primal enough that one can engage in discussion about it and not have a headache and a side of manic-depression afterwards smh.

Truthfully sister after reading so many of these brothas posts I am beginning to see a chain reaction, and though I dont agree with many aspects OF it, this is what I gather from the threads I have read so far. Stay with me for a second sisters...

BLAK MAN BLAK WOMAN SEPARATED
*
BLAK MAN BEATEN BLOODIED CONDITIONED
*
BLAK WOMAN BEATEN RAPED CONDITIONED
*
BLAK MAN BLAK WOMAN REUNITED UNDER PREMISE OF FREEDOM
*
BLAK WOMAN becomes DEFENSIVE & SUSPICIOUS
*
BLAK MAN APPROACHES BLAK WOMAN
*
BLAK WOMAN INITIALLY SHUNS BLAK MAN
*
BLAK MAN DISCOURAGED
*
BLAK WOMAN adopts INDEPENDENT WOMAN perpective
*
BLAK MAN APPROACHES BLAK WOMAN
*
BLAK WOMAN MEASURES BLAK MAN BY WHITE STANDARDS
*
BLAK MAN DISCOURAGED
*
BLAK WOMAN REDISCOVERS SELF
*
BLAK MAN OVERWHELMED BY DISPARAGING BLAK WOMEN starts to see "OTHER" WOMEN as option
*
BLAK WOMAN REALIZES SHE NEEDS BLAK MAN
*
BLAK MAN WITH "OTHER" WOMEN
*
BLAK WOMAN SHOWS BLAK MAN APPRECIATION
*
BLAK MAN SHOWS "TOO LITTLE TOO LATE" DEMEANOR & SEES NOTHING BUT NEGATIVITY
*
BLAK WOMAN OVERWHELMED BY DISPARAGING BLAK WOMEN starts to see "OTHER" MEN as option
*
BLAK MAN + BLAK WOMBMAN = No More

Again sister this is what I have gathered from reading the miscellaneous threads across our forum. I am very aware that there are SOME of us that are set on promoting nothing but BLAK LOVE. But it would seem somewhere in all the fuss... MANY of our brethren have lost hope. So at this point sister... whats to say even if we were to fall RIGHT IN the laps of these brothas who have become so disillusioned with us... would they even realize it?? :confused: I mean, sister truly, we can only Love them if they LET us smh

MAYBE the chat solution you posed could work but my spirit is weary. Like I mentioned earlier sister... my person HERE on our cyber home is only a TEXT version of my LIVE being so when I write what I do I mean it as if I said it from my own mouth and it translates into READING my brethrens words as well. After reading all that I have here, there, everywhere roun hurrrr... ay smh my beautiful Sistah Queen... my spirit is currently too weary to contemplate if ANY sort of intervention (whether chat, phone, etc ) would even work.

You ARE right sister... it would be easier to hit the lotto while running across the freeway holding a klansmens hand smh

You ARE right sister... it would be easier to hit the lotto while running across the freeway holding a klansmens hand smh :lol:

Whew, I feel ya sis!!! (((hug))) As a person, as a moderator, I've tried the soft glove approach and it doesn't seem to work. Maybe I need to exchange it for an iron glove and see where that takes these conversations.

I've been told that I'm "too nice" at times :jumping: and I don't disagree. I know. BUT...I tend to rationalize that by saying that Black people tend to get kicked around and slammed enough out there and they don't need for us to do the same.

But I guess that the "powers that be" have a greater influence on us than many of us realize. We are conditioned and we are impacted by the systems in place to control us. This is no joke. If what we are witnessing here (sadness, discouragement, lack of hope, generational anger...) is only a fraction of what people in our community believe or are experiencing, then we do have a lot of work to do.

But who is "we"? Some of us are doing the work that needs to be done on ourselves; trying to work on knowledge and understanding; trying to become better livers, thinkers, and doers. Some here need to start doing the same, but name need some help to find the tools necessary to begin.

Yes, my sister T, the negative may outweigh the positive in our community, and those of us who are feeling as though we are climbing a steep mountain when we have these discussions, finding it difficult to breathe because of the thinner air; finding ourselves thirsty becasue we may have run out of water...we need rest for a while, until we can catch our breath, or find some fresh water to strengthen our legs because it's a journey that people like you and me and others like us, need to continue travelling. We struggle, but we won't focus on the struggle, we'll keep our eyes on the victory.

Just keep loving and being good to yourself sister...and know that there are those of us who love you too.

Queenie :heart:

Much Respect Sister Triniti...

I agree with the way you situated the descending ladder we have unconsciously climbed down throughout our plight in America. You are right on point. Consider the following also:

BLAK MAN BLAK WOMAN REUNITED UNDER PREMISE OF FREEDOM
*
BLAK WOMAN becomes DEFENSIVE & SUSPICIOUS

Somewhere between those two facts a link may be missing. Is it the BW's insecurities (justifable?), or the BM's behavior(misplaced hatred), because I don't understand how BW would become defensive or suspicious, especially after uniting with her Black King, and being granted freedom. Perhaps an 'intruding force' played a hand in helping stagnate our collective growth. What do you think? It's obvious that stones were hurled, but exactly who's guilty of hiding the hand? Is it safe to say these wounds were self-inflicted?

Much Respect Sister Triniti...

I agree with the way you situated the descending ladder we have unconsciously climbed down throughout our plight in America. You are right on point. Consider the following also:

BLAK MAN BLAK WOMAN REUNITED UNDER PREMISE OF FREEDOM
*
BLAK WOMAN becomes DEFENSIVE & SUSPICIOUS

Somewhere between those two facts a link may be missing. Is it the BW's insecurities (justifable?), or the BM's behavior(misplaced hatred), because I don't understand how BW would become defensive or suspicious, especially after uniting with her Black King, and being granted freedom. Perhaps an 'intruding force' played a hand in helping stagnate our collective growth. What do you think? It's obvious that stones were hurled, but exactly who's guilty of hiding the hand? Is it safe to say these wounds were self-inflicted?

*fanning myself*

Gosh Sister Spicy, do you have any idea what you're asking? The answers are not hidden. They are so apparent and woven throughout each and every thread here. Some of the same discussions you've contributed to and made profound observations and offered wise opinions. We are not an opaque people, we're transparent. We are what we've been conditioned to be. We are the walking wounded....not the dead....but the wounded. And what happens when you're wounded and frightened and can't get at those that have injured you? The anger has to go somewhere. The fear, if left to continue, will drive you mad and make you paranoid. Have you ever seen someone who can't swim and is drowning, and what they do when someone jumps in and tries to help them. Sometimes their fear and their struggle to live will cause the person doing the saving to drown. Most Black women who genuinely understand their struggle and care about their survival are trying to save the Black man. We are jumping in the deep waters and trying to keep their heads above it. If the Black man doesn't know how to swim and lets his fear and frustration control him, what do you think will happen.

Some might not agree with this analogy but it's what came to my mind as I read your questions to try and make sense of what's going on between Black men and Black women.

As I said before, yes, we have a lot of work to do, but we can't give up. While I'm resting trying to gather my strength, Sister Triniti will take the lead. When she gets tired, sisters like you will take the lead. But the point is, we won't give up because it's too important that we see that the Black man and family survives and rises again.

Queenie :heart:

I see that we got some sisters that are ready.

Let's see what the brothers have to say about this.

*fanning myself*

Gosh Sister Spicy, do you have any idea what you're asking? The answers are not hidden. They are so apparent and woven throughout each and every thread here. Some of the same discussions you've contributed to and made profound observations and offered wise opinions. We are not an opaque people, we're transparent. We are what we've been conditioned to be. We are the walking wounded....not the dead....but the wounded. And what happens when you're wounded and frightened and can't get at those that have injured you? The anger has to go somewhere. The fear, if left to continue, will drive you mad and make you paranoid. Have you ever seen someone who can't swim and is drowning, and what they do when someone jumps in and tries to help them. Sometimes their fear and their struggle to live will cause the person doing the saving to drown. Most Black women who genuinely understand their struggle and care about their survival are trying to save the Black man. We are jumping in the deep waters and trying to keep their heads above it. If the Black man doesn't know how to swim and lets his fear and frustration control him, what do you think will happen.

Some might not agree with this analogy but it's what came to my mind as I read your questions to try and make sense of what's going on between Black men and Black women.

As I said before, yes, we have a lot of work to do, but we can't give up. While I'm resting trying to gather my strength, Sister Triniti will take the lead. When she gets tired, sisters like you will take the lead. But the point is, we won't give up because it's too important that we see that the Black man and family survives and rises again.

Queenie :heart:

*sigh* :cry: we love you too sister :grouphug: lets get this work done!

Much Respect Sister Triniti...

I agree with the way you situated the descending ladder we have unconsciously climbed down throughout our plight in America. You are right on point. Consider the following also:

BLAK MAN BLAK WOMAN REUNITED UNDER PREMISE OF FREEDOM
*
BLAK WOMAN becomes DEFENSIVE & SUSPICIOUS

Somewhere between those two facts a link may be missing. Is it the BW's insecurities (justifable?), or the BM's behavior(misplaced hatred), because I don't understand how BW would become defensive or suspicious, especially after uniting with her Black King, and being granted freedom. Perhaps an 'intruding force' played a hand in helping stagnate our collective growth. What do you think? It's obvious that stones were hurled, but exactly who's guilty of hiding the hand? Is it safe to say these wounds were self-inflicted?

:) You gave me thoughts to ponder sister... when I listed my post I mentioned that this was not necessarily what I thought but what I had gathered from the many threads on our forum. HOWEVER... :) that being said sister... my own personal list would probably be a lot more detailed lol seeing as how I would want to include every little last detail.
Is it the BW's insecurities (justifable?), or the BM's behavior(misplaced hatred), because I don't understand how BW would become defensive or suspicious, especially after uniting with her Black King, and being granted freedom. Perhaps an 'intruding force' played a hand in helping stagnate our collective growth. What do you think? It's obvious that stones were hurled, but exactly who's guilty of hiding the hand? Is it safe to say these wounds were self-inflicted?[/B]
Again I listed what I did as a result

See sister... my thing is... PERSONALLY... I dont think we are "UNITED" as a whole anyway. And though I love your fiery disposition :) I find it VERY plausible that many sisters are defensive & suspicious even WITH Blak Man. After all sister our own history has shown us the many horrible things that have happened to our people, brothas and sistahs alike. Your average HUMAN reaction is such that it takes itself on the defense when being threatened. Our stories are a tad more EXTREME. We've gone through YEARS of threats and followed abuse. The defense is RUSTED on lock for many sistahs. I would know... I teetered very close to being the very same way. Just because we are in the same ROOM-actually a better example would be our own forum here- just because we are ALL on this forum it doesnt mean we are "united". We are working TOWARDS unity, but its been (as the song says) a "long time comin" and there are wounds that need to be healed.

And sister :) who says we were "granted" freedom? Are we REALLY free? Lets say you and I were both taken to prison and I was able to break free... am I free? For me, NO I'm not sister... I am BOUND by YOUR imprisonment...because YOU are still bound I can only go so far. AND... often as the case may be, you still have to CHOOSE freedom. I can and will do what I can BUT with you free standing and fighting side by side with me as sistah souljahs do... we can acomplish so much more.

Oh sister...cant you see? Its more than "self-inflicted" wounds. Tell me this sister. You have a beautiful queen in the making of your own. Lets say she came home with a wound that SHE did because a teacher taught her that she HAD to, that she was only worth that, that she would continue to do so because that is WHO she is. Would you be upset @ her? :read: and honey i have read enough about my sistah spicy to know that she aint no joke :lol: I already know you will have that teacher demoted dethroned he!! castrated if ya could lol so tell me sister... how is this that different?

True enough we are not "children" but we ARE still learning and rediscovering our ORIGINAL selves. It was like you said in another thread... just because we know it doesnt mean we always live it. We are reflections of years of pain and suffering. Personally sister... I dont wanna be in pain no mo' I wanna RISE UP REACH OUT AND LIVE. But for me its not possible until you, queenie beanie, sister ifucomesoftly, destee mae, brotha Isaiah, brotha samurai, Mani-fresh, ALLLLLLLLL of us are at least WORKING towards the same goals....

Can you imagine it sister... the day our people see the scars that we have been taught to ignore?

The day Sistahs who have turned their heads away from brothas in disdain admit their blind conditioned eyes and finally SEE them for the Kings they truly are?

The day Brothas who have been so burdened and depressed find their solace in a Queen who supports them as much as he loves her?

The day we STEP OUT in an ocean of nubia with shades of mocha, caramel, toffee, cocoa brown, & deep dark chocolate rushing through the capital demanding our due?

Can you hear our children defending each other against anyone even THINKING to harm our unity?

Can you hear our Brotha Kings Voices united and THUNDERING across radio's & TV's nationwide proclaiming our NONSTOP EFFORTS?

Can you hear our Sistah Queens voices ECHOING our KINGS creating a chorus of vocals that is heard world wide?

****AHHhhhhh..... I guess a girl can daydream :) cant I? :) *********

:read:

*sigh* (again) Truthfully sister... I am starting to feel like "why bother?" Okay for example... I know there are sistahs that have tried to encourage brotha Kente (but hes still pretty much in the same mind state that he was to begin with) AND as far as Samurai goes smh... Sister River often complimented and encouraged him and *mercy smh* I gathered ALL the brazen boldness I had and showered that brotha with compliments & encouragement just show him how wonderful I believe he is IN FRONT of the forum at that and he STILL found nothing but negativity and reason to further his state of "BLAK WOMAN DEPRESSION" :(

I have become SO sadened by the threads I have read here its why I stopped replying to the other thread about "APPROACHING BLAK WOMEN" in a sense sister I am starting to understand why some sisters just dont bother with those types of conversations. SEX seems primal enough that one can engage in discussion about it and not have a headache and a side of manic-depression afterwards smh.

Truthfully sister after reading so many of these brothas posts I am beginning to see a chain reaction, and though I dont agree with many aspects OF it, this is what I gather from the threads I have read so far. Stay with me for a second sisters...

BLAK MAN BLAK WOMAN SEPARATED
*
BLAK MAN BEATEN BLOODIED CONDITIONED
*
BLAK WOMAN BEATEN RAPED CONDITIONED
*
BLAK MAN BLAK WOMAN REUNITED UNDER PREMISE OF FREEDOM
*
BLAK WOMAN becomes DEFENSIVE & SUSPICIOUS
*
BLAK MAN APPROACHES BLAK WOMAN
*
BLAK WOMAN INITIALLY SHUNS BLAK MAN
*
BLAK MAN DISCOURAGED
*
BLAK WOMAN adopts INDEPENDENT WOMAN perpective
*
BLAK MAN APPROACHES BLAK WOMAN
*
BLAK WOMAN MEASURES BLAK MAN BY WHITE STANDARDS
*
BLAK MAN DISCOURAGED
*
BLAK WOMAN REDISCOVERS SELF
*
BLAK MAN OVERWHELMED BY DISPARAGING BLAK WOMEN starts to see "OTHER" WOMEN as option
*
BLAK WOMAN REALIZES SHE NEEDS BLAK MAN
*
BLAK MAN WITH "OTHER" WOMEN
*
BLAK WOMAN SHOWS BLAK MAN APPRECIATION
*
BLAK MAN SHOWS "TOO LITTLE TOO LATE" DEMEANOR & SEES NOTHING BUT NEGATIVITY
*
BLAK WOMAN OVERWHELMED BY DISPARAGING BLAK WOMEN starts to see "OTHER" MEN as option
*
BLAK MAN + BLAK WOMBMAN = No More

Again sister this is what I have gathered from reading the miscellaneous threads across our forum. I am very aware that there are SOME of us that are set on promoting nothing but BLAK LOVE. But it would seem somewhere in all the fuss... MANY of our brethren have lost hope. So at this point sister... whats to say even if we were to fall RIGHT IN the laps of these brothas who have become so disillusioned with us... would they even realize it?? :confused: I mean, sister truly, we can only Love them if they LET us smh

MAYBE the chat solution you posed could work but my spirit is weary. Like I mentioned earlier sister... my person HERE on our cyber home is only a TEXT version of my LIVE being so when I write what I do I mean it as if I said it from my own mouth and it translates into READING my brethrens words as well. After reading all that I have here, there, everywhere roun hurrrr... ay smh my beautiful Sistah Queen... my spirit is currently too weary to contemplate if ANY sort of intervention (whether chat, phone, etc ) would even work.

You ARE right sister... it would be easier to hit the lotto while running across the freeway holding a klansmens hand smh
Sista Triniti,

The same sign and smh has been in my heart for the longest.

You know I love Sam and think the world of him and Kente is my heart, Nevertheless, reading your post I guess many of us feel kinda invisible because no matter what we do unless every Black woman on the face of this planet transmogrifies into exactly what they want us to be they will not be happy or satisfied and will continue to complain. I’m hearing the exact same complaints I head a year ago. From the very same mouth. No growth has taken place. No understanding that for better or worse we are their woman and the same common enemy has strived for two thousand years to tear us apart. They want to think global. Un huh the grass looks greener on the other side of the ocean. But if a man is not taking care of his own grass how is he going to take care of grass he has never waked on? Take care of the grass that is good to you and you might see the rest of the field in a while new light. Knowamsane?

I’m not trying to start a fight. I’m trying to start a dialogue. Hopefully this time a difference will be made. I don't thinks it's even about what we could tell them. We've said all that could possibly be said. Been saying it for years and they always agree with us and tell us we are not like the women they talk about. Kinda like a white man saying you're not like other ******.

Shall I give up on Black men because so many of them are either in jail or on drugs or gay or just unsuitable? We can't start talking about the brothas the way the brothas talk about the sitas. Although it may seem tempting to give them a dose of their own medicine but unlike with electricity negative attitudes don't cancel each other out. Some of us come here from the "real" world and dump our negativity as if it will have no effect because what they mean when they say we are not like other women is that we are not real, A year ago I went so far as to delete a picture of me and my ex husband from the Destee album. That's how real Sam was to me. Yet to this day I have had zero impact on his unfavorable opinion of my sistas.

I've been observing some of these relationship topics and find them all very interesting and somewhat troubling. It seems this is a microcosm of a larger problem in our community.

I think we are all colored by our experiences, and cannot help but feel the way we do, because all of this stuff is emotional. It may be exquisitely articulated, culturally conscious, philosophical, a complete analysis of the pros and cons of the opposite sex...but at the end of the day it's all emotional. People use their logic and reason to explain and justify how they feel, rather than vice versa.

I think setting "relationship goals" may be healthy but potentially damaging. Most folks who are single can rattle off a description of their "ideal" mate, complete with body type, size, sexual appetite, hair length, income level, etc. etc. (it's an ideal because it doesn't exist). Ironically, those who are married or in a relationship can give an equal sized list of the things about their partner that work their nerves.

Maybe there is a spiritual lesson in that what you want isn't always what you need, whether or not you perceive it in your limited vision. We shouldn't cut oursevles off from the possibility of having someone change our minds about one another. This limits us from fully experiencing all that life and relationships of all kinds have to offer.

Sista Triniti,

The same sign and smh has been in my heart for the longest.

You know I love Sam and think the world of him and Kente is my heart, Nevertheless, reading your post I guess many of us feel kinda invisible because no matter what we do unless every Black woman on the face of this planet transmogrifies into exactly what they want us to be they will not be happy or satisfied and will continue to complain. I’m hearing the exact same complaints I head a year ago. From the very same mouth. No growth has taken place. No understanding that for better or worse we are their woman and the same common enemy has strived for two thousand years to tear us apart. They want to think global. Un huh the grass looks greener on the other side of the ocean. But if a man is not taking care of his own grass how is he going to take care of grass he has never waked on? Take care of the grass that is good to you and you might see the rest of the field in a while new light. Knowamsane?

I’m not trying to start a fight. I’m trying to start a dialogue. Hopefully this time a difference will be made. I don't thinks it's even about what we could tell them. We've said all that could possibly be said. Been saying it for years and they always agree with us and tell us we are not like the women they talk about. Kinda like a white man saying you're not like other ******.

Shall I give up on Black men because so many of them are either in jail or on drugs or gay or just unsuitable? We can't start talking about the brothas the way the brothas talk about the sitas. Although it may seem tempting to give them a dose of their own medicine but unlike with electricity negative attitudes don't cancel each other out. Some of us come here from the "real" world and dump our negativity as if it will have no effect because what they mean when they say we are not like other women is that we are not real, A year ago I went so far as to delete a picture of me and my ex husband from the Destee album. That's how real Sam was to me. Yet to this day I have had zero impact on his unfavorable opinion of my sistas.

sister river,

for the longest i have tried to avoid most of these relationship issue threads because my experience on numerous other web sites and forums tend to all lead in the same direction...more divisiveness between Black women and Black men. One thing that does bother at times, and really the ONLY thing that bothers me is how when some Brothers express how they REALLY feel on various issues the response typically comes off as "Man UP and Stop WHINING"...Yet...Brothers are always dealing with the age old "Black men are ALL Dogs" Black mean aint SH**"Black male shortage" ad nauseum.

This to me indicates a double standard and I have not posted a thread on this topic because there is not one furum where it could be posted as Black MEN and Black WOMEN equally blamable and responsible for perpetuating thes forms of "double standards"....but it seems so much easier to place the blame on others that to take personal responsibility for our own individual weaknesses and relationship issues. Furthermore, it doesn't help when some folks create threads directed at certain individuals to call them own, ostracise them, put them on "front street" or to cause PROVOCATION:laugh:

Maybe if more Brothers who involve themselves with Black women were themselves treated in a manner which indicates that Black women are at least somewhat SATISFIED with what little some Brothers may be able to give, them maybe these same Brothers would not complain or give the indication that they are unfulfilled and lacking satisfaction...

remember...it was the rolling stones who sung "i can't get no satisfaction" which show that even white rock idols find themselves also lacking:laugh:

I've been observing some of these relationship topics and find them all very interesting and somewhat troubling. It seems this is a microcosm of a larger problem in our community.

I think we are all colored by our experiences, and cannot help but feel the way we do, because all of this stuff is emotional. It may be exquisitely articulated, culturally conscious, philosophical, a complete analysis of the pros and cons of the opposite sex...but at the end of the day it's all emotional. People use their logic and reason to explain and justify how they feel, rather than vice versa.

I think setting "relationship goals" may be healthy but potentially damaging. Most folks who are single can rattle off a description of their "ideal" mate, complete with body type, size, sexual appetite, hair length, income level, etc. etc. (it's an ideal because it doesn't exist). Ironically, those who are married or in a relationship can give an equal sized list of the things about their partner that work their nerves.

Maybe there is a spiritual lesson in that what you want isn't always what you need, whether or not you perceive it in your limited vision. We shouldn't cut oursevles off from the possibility of having someone change our minds about one another. This limits us from fully experiencing all that life and relationships of all kinds have to offer.



:bingo:

"Maybe there is a spiritual lesson in that what you want isn't always what you need".

Case closed...:blowkiss:

My dear wonderful Sister's, I share your sentiments and concerns.

One thing I've come to learn is, when a person mind is absolute about anything, It's extremely difficult convincing them to reconsider their stance. Some of my most valued lessons was learnt when I began to question myself. Like why I feel this way? How am I contributing to this feeling? Even if my perception is correct, Is it necessary to deem it as the source of my problems. I learned to look past madness and to appreciate the things around me and what I had. I learned that things aren’t always what they seemed to be. My eyes, my views, my interpretations, and experiences hadn’t played an unjust game on me. I played a game on myself. I struggle everyday to maintain my peace of mind. Some days are harder than other's, but I've learned to catch myself in my tracks and turn my day around.

What does all this has to do with what's being discussed here? Well for me, everything. There will be people who may never appreciate or notice my attributes, but there are those who believe in me. We are working on it and growing together everyday. It is because of my experiences, that I will try to jump in the deep end of the water, risking drowning. But if you don't reach for my hand, or resist what I'm willing to sacrifice, I have to leave ya and go on back to shore. Because I am not perfect, but I won't stop trying to per-fect myself.

So when the questioned was posed "Are You Ready For Your Man?", The only thing I could think of was, I hope my man is ready for me? Lawd knows I'm traveling with some stuff. However, if he is willing to grow with me, I'm every so ready.

As far as advice, be truthful with yourself. If you find yourself portraying an image of what someone else wants you to be, chances are You will not be ready for your man nor for your own truths.

sister river,

for the longest i have tried to avoid most of these relationship issue threads because my experience on numerous other web sites and forums tend to all lead in the same direction...more divisiveness between Black women and Black men. One thing that does bother at times, and really the ONLY thing that bothers me is how when some Brothers express how they REALLY feel on various issues the response typically comes off as "Man UP and Stop WHINING"...Yet...Brothers are always dealing with the age old "Black men are ALL Dogs" Black mean aint SH**"Black male shortage" ad nauseum.

This to me indicates a double standard and I have not posted a thread on this topic because there is not one furum where it could be posted as Black MEN and Black WOMEN equally blamable and responsible for perpetuating thes forms of "double standards"....but it seems so much easier to place the blame on others that to take personal responsibility for our own individual weaknesses and relationship issues. Furthermore, it doesn't help when some folks create threads directed at certain individuals to call them own, ostracise them, put them on "front street" or to cause PROVOCATION:laugh:

Maybe if more Brothers who involve themselves with Black women were themselves treated in a manner which indicates that Black women are at least somewhat SATISFIED with what little some Brothers may be able to give, them maybe these same Brothers would not complain or give the indication that they are unfulfilled and lacking satisfaction...

remember...it was the rolling stones who sung "i can't get no satisfaction" which show that even white rock idols find themselves also lacking:laugh:
I feelya mad deep, brotha Omo.

It's not all the good guys lined up on one side and all the bad guys lined up on the other side. Like you said, what we experience from one another is quite mutual. If we could just stop and ask ourselves since it's mutual where did it come from? What would happen if I do things a little different. But the sistas are saying if the brothas would do this and that the problem will go away and the brothas are saying if the sista did this and that, things will be better. All that any of us has to do is love and accept one another.

There have been a couple women on Destee who came here saying black men as a whole are no good and all the stuff you mentioned. They aren't here now. Both the sistas and the brothas united to ride them out of town. So it's really discombobulating when these same brothas we defended turn around and say they can't find a good Black woman. And I know men can make the same complaint. If you can say the same things about me that i say about you then can't we both be intelligent enough to turn mutual blaming into a mutual effort?

This mutual effort begins with the individual but the individual has to see his or herself as part of the bigger picture. As long as I feel my pain as an individual rather than as the outcome of our indoctrination then I won't be able to see the mutuality of the complaints going back and forth.

As far as advice, be truthful with yourself. If you find yourself portraying an image of what someone else wants you to be, chances are You will not be ready for your man nor for your own truths.

I knew when I saw your name something good was coming up.

I know that when I lay down with a man chest to chest and tummy to tummy I actually recalibrate my breathing to match his, especially when he is asleep and I'm awake, I feel powerful in having the choice to make that concession. So I have to be careful to make sure that where a man will lead me is not too far from where I want to go. Like Patti LaBelle sang "The choice of how I crawl or bow must be mine to choose."

*fanning myself*

Gosh Sister Spicy, do you have any idea what you're asking? The answers are not hidden. They are so apparent and woven throughout each and every thread here. Some of the same discussions you've contributed to and made profound observations and offered wise opinions. We are not an opaque people, we're transparent. We are what we've been conditioned to be. We are the walking wounded....not the dead....but the wounded. And what happens when you're wounded and frightened and can't get at those that have injured you? The anger has to go somewhere. The fear, if left to continue, will drive you mad and make you paranoid. Have you ever seen someone who can't swim and is drowning, and what they do when someone jumps in and tries to help them. Sometimes their fear and their struggle to live will cause the person doing the saving to drown. Most Black women who genuinely understand their struggle and care about their survival are trying to save the Black man. We are jumping in the deep waters and trying to keep their heads above it. If the Black man doesn't know how to swim and lets his fear and frustration control him, what do you think will happen.

Some might not agree with this analogy but it's what came to my mind as I read your questions to try and make sense of what's going on between Black men and Black women.

As I said before, yes, we have a lot of work to do, but we can't give up. While I'm resting trying to gather my strength, Sister Triniti will take the lead. When she gets tired, sisters like you will take the lead. But the point is, we won't give up because it's too important that we see that the Black man and family survives and rises again.

Queenie :heart:

I do understand the dynamic of white supremacy, and the effect is has upon our relationships, but the not-so-wise of us, and the guests may not understand the passage below by Sister Triniti:

BLAK MAN BLAK WOMAN REUNITED UNDER PREMISE OF FREEDOM
*
BLAK WOMAN becomes DEFENSIVE & SUSPICIOUS

some people aren't able to break down the science of a BW's defensiveness. IMO, the way she posed it, made it seem as though BW get defensive and suspicious for no apparent reason, obviously that was not her intention. That's why I magnified it. Sister Trinity is a woman of profound wisdom, I do respect her analogy.

Yes, Sister Spicy, no doubt you are correct in your assessment. My question posed to you was more a rhetorical one than one assuming you didn't know what you were doing. What I meant was that your question, if we were to truly do it justice, would require some deep understanding of the racial dynamics and its affect on us and some discussion that took us from the outter rim to the core of our situation. My girl, Triskit, without question is very wise, and eloquent and deeply passionate and her commentary more than supports that fact.

I think we ...those posting to this thread...are giving a lot of thought to not only what is required of us to work on ourselves, but also how we must interface with our Black men.

Queenie :heart:

I've been observing some of these relationship topics and find them all very interesting and somewhat troubling. It seems this is a microcosm of a larger problem in our community.

I think we are all colored by our experiences, and cannot help but feel the way we do, because all of this stuff is emotional. It may be exquisitely articulated, culturally conscious, philosophical, a complete analysis of the pros and cons of the opposite sex...but at the end of the day it's all emotional. People use their logic and reason to explain and justify how they feel, rather than vice versa.

I think setting "relationship goals" may be healthy but potentially damaging. Most folks who are single can rattle off a description of their "ideal" mate, complete with body type, size, sexual appetite, hair length, income level, etc. etc. (it's an ideal because it doesn't exist). Ironically, those who are married or in a relationship can give an equal sized list of the things about their partner that work their nerves.

Maybe there is a spiritual lesson in that what you want isn't always what you need, whether or not you perceive it in your limited vision. We shouldn't cut oursevles off from the possibility of having someone change our minds about one another. This limits us from fully experiencing all that life and relationships of all kinds have to offer.



Greetings Sister Uplift, I have read and re-read what you wrote but am not clear as to what you mean. Maybe it's due tot he lateness of the hour but I'd like to ask you to please explain what you meant or to elaborate more because I know there is a deep meaning there that I want to grasp.

Thanks sis...
Queenie :heart:

I feelya mad deep, brotha Omo.

It's not all the good guys lined up on one side and all the bad guys lined up on the other side. Like you said, what we experience from one another is quite mutual. If we could just stop and ask ourselves since it's mutual where did it come from? What would happen if I do things a little different. But the sistas are saying if the brothas would do this and that the problem will go away and the brothas are saying if the sista did this and that, things will be better. All that any of us has to do is love and accept one another.

There have been a couple women on Destee who came here saying black men as a whole are no good and all the stuff you mentioned. They aren't here now. Both the sistas and the brothas united to ride them out of town. So it's really discombobulating when these same brothas we defended turn around and say they can't find a good Black woman. And I know men can make the same complaint. If you can say the same things about me that i say about you then can't we both be intelligent enough to turn mutual blaming into a mutual effort?

This mutual effort begins with the individual but the individual has to see his or herself as part of the bigger picture. As long as I feel my pain as an individual rather than as the outcome of our indoctrination then I won't be able to see the mutuality of the complaints going back and forth.


sister river,

you and sister uplift hit me right on the head so i have no argument with you but full agreement..:grouphug:

it's funny though because i think you did as myself and relocated from california to texas (feel free to correct me if i am wrong) and even though california had significantly smaller % of Black folks, it seems that in north texas they are even moe spread out, less concentrated, seem more detached from each other...and i'm sure it's NOT just me or my attitude because i know folks who warned me about this beforehand...many who told me they thought houston would be a better place to settle..

so i guess that part of what i'm trying to say is sometimes it's just difficult to see "the bigger picture" because sometimes we get cought in the present moment and lose sight of "future possibilities" and many lose hope and faith as a result...:confused:

:thinking: now let me bow out and go to my 4 cornered room...

I do understand the dynamic of white supremacy, and the effect is has upon our relationships, but the not-so-wise of us, and the guests may not understand the passage below by Sister Triniti:

BLAK MAN BLAK WOMAN REUNITED UNDER PREMISE OF FREEDOM
*
BLAK WOMAN becomes DEFENSIVE & SUSPICIOUS

some people aren't able to break down the science of a BW's defensiveness. IMO, the way she posed it, made it seem as though BW get defensive and suspicious for no apparent reason, obviously that was not her intention. That's why I magnified it. Sister Trinity is a woman of profound wisdom, I do respect her analogy.

:) :read: I know you do sister :) and TRUST the respect is mutually so :) :grouphug: Though many dont see it sister I understand when you start what seems to many as "controversial threads" that you are only stirring us up enough so that we can self-evaluate and I appreciate it much sister.

Sista Triniti,

The same sign and smh has been in my heart for the longest.

You know I love Sam and think the world of him and Kente is my heart, Nevertheless, reading your post I guess many of us feel kinda invisible because no matter what we do unless every Black woman on the face of this planet transmogrifies into exactly what they want us to be they will not be happy or satisfied and will continue to complain. I’m hearing the exact same complaints I head a year ago. From the very same mouth. No growth has taken place. No understanding that for better or worse we are their woman and the same common enemy has strived for two thousand years to tear us apart. They want to think global. Un huh the grass looks greener on the other side of the ocean. But if a man is not taking care of his own grass how is he going to take care of grass he has never waked on? Take care of the grass that is good to you and you might see the rest of the field in a while new light. Knowamsane?

I’m not trying to start a fight. I’m trying to start a dialogue. Hopefully this time a difference will be made. I don't thinks it's even about what we could tell them. We've said all that could possibly be said. Been saying it for years and they always agree with us and tell us we are not like the women they talk about. Kinda like a white man saying you're not like other ******.

Shall I give up on Black men because so many of them are either in jail or on drugs or gay or just unsuitable? We can't start talking about the brothas the way the brothas talk about the sitas. Although it may seem tempting to give them a dose of their own medicine but unlike with electricity negative attitudes don't cancel each other out. Some of us come here from the "real" world and dump our negativity as if it will have no effect because what they mean when they say we are not like other women is that we are not real, A year ago I went so far as to delete a picture of me and my ex husband from the Destee album. That's how real Sam was to me. Yet to this day I have had zero impact on his unfavorable opinion of my sistas.
********************************************
I feelya mad deep, brotha Omo.

It's not all the good guys lined up on one side and all the bad guys lined up on the other side. Like you said, what we experience from one another is quite mutual. If we could just stop and ask ourselves since it's mutual where did it come from? What would happen if I do things a little different. But the sistas are saying if the brothas would do this and that the problem will go away and the brothas are saying if the sista did this and that, things will be better. All that any of us has to do is love and accept one another.

There have been a couple women on Destee who came here saying black men as a whole are no good and all the stuff you mentioned. They aren't here now. Both the sistas and the brothas united to ride them out of town. So it's really discombobulating when these same brothas we defended turn around and say they can't find a good Black woman. And I know men can make the same complaint. If you can say the same things about me that i say about you then can't we both be intelligent enough to turn mutual blaming into a mutual effort?

This mutual effort begins with the individual but the individual has to see his or herself as part of the bigger picture. As long as I feel my pain as an individual rather than as the outcome of our indoctrination then I won't be able to see the mutuality of the complaints going back and forth.
********************************************
I knew when I saw your name something good was coming up.

I know that when I lay down with a man chest to chest and tummy to tummy I actually recalibrate my breathing to match his, especially when he is asleep and I'm awake, I feel powerful in having the choice to make that concession. So I have to be careful to make sure that where a man will lead me is not too far from where I want to go. Like Patti LaBelle sang "The choice of how I crawl or bow must be mine to choose."


Actually Sistah Queen... Yes. I do know how much you love brotha Samurai. I would dare go as far to say that anyone whom acknowledged and appreciated him... the first and foremost always has been and still is... you. Being that I am an observant Taurus who sees through the eyes of a Leo with the personality of a Libra... I noticed the album changes you made and naturally "sistah to sistah" I knew whom it was for... so for that sister... I find myself simply almost baffled and frankly borderline distraught over the the failure of our essences to permeate the sadness our Brotha Kings have shared. Speaking frankly sister... I took my time responding because...well, when I initially came to destee Brotha Khasms words were a salve to much of the personal suffering I was going through (I still wish him & his Queen the most happiness) from then on Destee.com found its place in my heart by the overabounding love that I could come and find HERE... Sister, I am close to forgetting how that feels here @ our cyber community. I HATE that my heart feels MORE burdened by SHOWING and GIVING love to our brothas... *sigh* and as I have no other way to say it sister... I dont know if I want to keep doing this anymore.

That being said... I DO understand brotha O's perspective. This is a MUTUAL problem that we MUST bridge.... and youre RIGHT its NOT about starting a "fight" mercy knows we don' had a he!!uva lotta dat to last our people 100 lifetimes. This is about HOLDING EACH OTHER ACCOUNTABLE AND HEALING OUR HEARTS AND MOVING ON. While we SPEAK it we WALK it we BREATHE it and LIVE it so that together we can BE it... but again sister... I dont know if my heart is strong to keep fighting an uphill battle and seeing that the eyes on the opposing side belong to OUR BLAK MAN smh honey the heart can only take so much at a time.

I've been observing some of these relationship topics and find them all very interesting and somewhat troubling. It seems this is a microcosm of a larger problem in our community.

I think we are all colored by our experiences, and cannot help but feel the way we do, because all of this stuff is emotional. It may be exquisitely articulated, culturally conscious, philosophical, a complete analysis of the pros and cons of the opposite sex...but at the end of the day it's all emotional. People use their logic and reason to explain and justify how they feel, rather than vice versa.

I think setting "relationship goals" may be healthy but potentially damaging. Most folks who are single can rattle off a description of their "ideal" mate, complete with body type, size, sexual appetite, hair length, income level, etc. etc. (it's an ideal because it doesn't exist). Ironically, those who are married or in a relationship can give an equal sized list of the things about their partner that work their nerves.

Maybe there is a spiritual lesson in that what you want isn't always what you need, whether or not you perceive it in your limited vision. We shouldn't cut oursevles off from the possibility of having someone change our minds about one another. This limits us from fully experiencing all that life and relationships of all kinds have to offer.


Greetings sister Uplift :) Before I respond to your post here in this thread I wanted to say how much I have appreciated your many comments posts etc. Your wisdom is most refreshing, I am glad you have found your way into the house :) :grouphug: :)

Having said that :) :read:... I do see where you are coming from sister, and its true, much of what we say do and are is emotionally driven. People use their logic and reason to explain and justify how they feel, rather than vice versa. In retrospect what you say here is very true sister but truthfully sister in my humble opinion much of this can often be chalked up to human nature so how do we EDUCATE our people to go BEYOND that?

And sister in educating and growing we will end up setting what to some may seem like "relationship goals" one brethrens "goal" is anothers "standards" or anothers "morals" and so forth. I dont think that its the "setting" of these goals/morals/ideals/standards that is hurting us. I think you are on to something when you touch on the "EMOTION" involved. A balance has to be maintained between the emotion and the mind.

Its safe to say the dissension supercedes the relationship threads sister but in a sense its the "relationship" with each other that is the problem. You are right sister... we have become so emotionally driven we are blinded by the truths of our situations. As I read through the forum I realize that oftentimes the solutions to many of our problems are laidout like clockwork BUT we are so driven by our frustration, our anger, our disappointment, our sadness, our love, our raging indignation that we fail to see the TRUTH standing before us. I know I'm guilty of it. Why I was just saying to sister River, prior to my addressing you, that the influx of disparaging comments of Brothas/Sistahs against Brothas/Sistahs has taxed me so much I will be taking a destee.com vacation of sorts lol to soothe my senses.

You have given me a healthy portion of brain food my sister :) and it has done my own spirit so much good :) Thank you sister :)

*fanning myself*

Gosh Sister Spicy, do you have any idea what you're asking? The answers are not hidden. They are so apparent and woven throughout each and every thread here. Some of the same discussions you've contributed to and made profound observations and offered wise opinions. We are not an opaque people, we're transparent. We are what we've been conditioned to be. We are the walking wounded....not the dead....but the wounded. And what happens when you're wounded and frightened and can't get at those that have injured you? The anger has to go somewhere. The fear, if left to continue, will drive you mad and make you paranoid. Have you ever seen someone who can't swim and is drowning, and what they do when someone jumps in and tries to help them. Sometimes their fear and their struggle to live will cause the person doing the saving to drown. Most Black women who genuinely understand their struggle and care about their survival are trying to save the Black man. We are jumping in the deep waters and trying to keep their heads above it. If the Black man doesn't know how to swim and lets his fear and frustration control him, what do you think will happen.

Some might not agree with this analogy but it's what came to my mind as I read your questions to try and make sense of what's going on between Black men and Black women.

As I said before, yes, we have a lot of work to do, but we can't give up. While I'm resting trying to gather my strength, Sister Triniti will take the lead. When she gets tired, sisters like you will take the lead. But the point is, we won't give up because it's too important that we see that the Black man and family survives and rises again.

Queenie :heart:
*****************************************
Greetings Sister Uplift, I have read and re-read what you wrote but am not clear as to what you mean. Maybe it's due tot he lateness of the hour but I'd like to ask you to please explain what you meant or to elaborate more because I know there is a deep meaning there that I want to grasp.

Thanks sis...
Queenie :heart:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh my sistah QueenieBeanie (((((((HUGS)))))) I just KNOW you are reading this post like "LAWD THIS CHILE SO LONGWINDED :lol: " Youre right sister I do earnestly believe that every sistah who has replied to this thread is earnestly looking to interface with our BLAK MAN on a more positive tip which is great. Speaking of which sister I do believe this would also make a great sistah chat topic... or at least the sistah chat I like to remember :thinking: at any rate I think sistah uplift said alot without saying too much (cause you know this bit of mine is a doozy :laugh: ) I too hope she would come back to the thread and enlighten us on her perspective

My dear wonderful Sister's, I share your sentiments and concerns.

One thing I've come to learn is, when a person mind is absolute about anything, It's extremely difficult convincing them to reconsider their stance. Some of my most valued lessons was learnt when I began to question myself. Like why I feel this way? How am I contributing to this feeling? Even if my perception is correct, Is it necessary to deem it as the source of my problems. I learned to look past madness and to appreciate the things around me and what I had. I learned that things aren’t always what they seemed to be. My eyes, my views, my interpretations, and experiences hadn’t played an unjust game on me. I played a game on myself. I struggle everyday to maintain my peace of mind. Some days are harder than other's, but I've learned to catch myself in my tracks and turn my day around.

What does all this has to do with what's being discussed here? Well for me, everything. There will be people who may never appreciate or notice my attributes, but there are those who believe in me. We are working on it and growing together everyday. It is because of my experiences, that I will try to jump in the deep end of the water, risking drowning. But if you don't reach for my hand, or resist what I'm willing to sacrifice, I have to leave ya and go on back to shore. Because I am not perfect, but I won't stop trying to per-fect myself.

So when the questioned was posed "Are You Ready For Your Man?", The only thing I could think of was, I hope my man is ready for me? Lawd knows I'm traveling with some stuff. However, if he is willing to grow with me, I'm every so ready.

As far as advice, be truthful with yourself. If you find yourself portraying an image of what someone else wants you to be, chances are You will not be ready for your man nor for your own truths.

HEYYYYY SISTER PURRRRRRRRRPLEEEE (((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))
lol Sorry Sistah Queen it just felt like it had been so long since I hugged you :) You are a beacon of hope sister. You remind me of sister Bluewater because you both have that knack for educating and soothing all in the same touch :) and I love it :grouphug:

As I read over your post... THIS stuck out the most for me.... How am I contributing to this feeling? I suppose a part of my pride was so adamant that I was not contributing to this and my emotions blinded me to the fact that I myself may in some way shape or form contribute in the angst many of our brothas have so plentifully expressed. Even if it is in the most miniscule way it must be extinguished and I appreciate the call for me to self evaluate! :look: :)

You said it best sister I am not perfect, but I won't stop trying to per-fect myself. and I think that is the right mentality to have. Taking each day step by step all the while learning and growing together. :read:
**********************************
~TO ALL MY SISTAHS~
I have THOROUGHLY enjoyed and loved sharing with all of my sisters in this thread. I just wanted to take a minute out of this extensive multi-tasking response (lol) just to say that for all our Sistah Queens trying and striving for the betterment of our BLAK UNIT as a whole... I love you sisters so much. You are my peers in arms and my spirit finds solace and rejuvination in bonding and healing with you all (((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Annnnnnnnnnd last but most DEF not least :)...
sister river,

for the longest i have tried to avoid most of these relationship issue threads because my experience on numerous other web sites and forums tend to all lead in the same direction...more divisiveness between Black women and Black men. One thing that does bother at times, and really the ONLY thing that bothers me is how when some Brothers express how they REALLY feel on various issues the response typically comes off as "Man UP and Stop WHINING"...Yet...Brothers are always dealing with the age old "Black men are ALL Dogs" Black mean aint SH**"Black male shortage" ad nauseum.

This to me indicates a double standard and I have not posted a thread on this topic because there is not one furum where it could be posted as Black MEN and Black WOMEN equally blamable and responsible for perpetuating thes forms of "double standards"....but it seems so much easier to place the blame on others that to take personal responsibility for our own individual weaknesses and relationship issues. Furthermore, it doesn't help when some folks create threads directed at certain individuals to call them own, ostracise them, put them on "front street" or to cause PROVOCATION:laugh:

Maybe if more Brothers who involve themselves with Black women were themselves treated in a manner which indicates that Black women are at least somewhat SATISFIED with what little some Brothers may be able to give, them maybe these same Brothers would not complain or give the indication that they are unfulfilled and lacking satisfaction...

remember...it was the rolling stones who sung "i can't get no satisfaction" which show that even white rock idols find themselves also lacking:laugh:
***********************************************
sister river,

you and sister uplift hit me right on the head so i have no argument with you but full agreement..:grouphug:

it's funny though because i think you did as myself and relocated from california to texas (feel free to correct me if i am wrong) and even though california had significantly smaller % of Black folks, it seems that in north texas they are even moe spread out, less concentrated, seem more detached from each other...and i'm sure it's NOT just me or my attitude because i know folks who warned me about this beforehand...many who told me they thought houston would be a better place to settle..

so i guess that part of what i'm trying to say is sometimes it's just difficult to see "the bigger picture" because sometimes we get cought in the present moment and lose sight of "future possibilities" and many lose hope and faith as a result...:confused:
:grouphug: Peace to you Brotha King Omowalejabali :) :grouphug: You wanna know something? (well too late sugah I'm gon tell ya anyway ;) lol ) I often wonder if our brethren REALLY read all that is being exchanged ACROSS the forum. Heck across the net itself. Suffice to say, though I am registered at other forums, Destee.com has always been the cyber "home" for my online travels, so my observations are based on what I have seen here. The reason I say so is because IF we were to do as Sistah Uplift says and put aside "emotion" long enough to evaluate and diagnose our problems than we can truly do as sistah Purple has mentioned and PER-FECT our beautiful BLAK nation. Buuuut... none of the aforementioned are easy tasks and the river is always deeper than it seems. Truthfully brotha I dont think any of the sistahs in this thread would argue that you are wrong in saying that MANY blak women DO shoot down a Brothas attempt to be open and honest about his experiences. But as sistah River touched on... truly... when do we stop focusing on the pain and focus on our wounds? At some point Sistahs AND Brothas alike have to stop pointing fingers and lingering in the pain that we ALLLLL have suffered and WANT to be better. *sigh* And if anyone encapsulated the heart of my approaching state of being, it would be you, because it seems we are so engrossed in our own suffering that we are just going to bleed to death, and honey.... I'm one of those who are beginning to lose hope and faith as a result...

You need to be on the mic during SISTER CHAT so you can give my eyes a rest. :D Girl, you be writing novels up in here.

My sisters, I hope you can make it tonite.....less that 45 minutes to go until we get together in Sister Chat.

Hope to see you all there!

Peace,
Queenie :heart:

HEYYYYY SISTER PURRRRRRRRRPLEEEE (((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))
lol Sorry Sistah Queen it just felt like it had been so long since I hugged you

(Smilin)A gurl can appreciate a hug from her Sisters! Time-span, unlimited.

Sister, you've brilliantly summed it all up! Leavin much to consider and plenty food for thought. With Sister's like you all up in Destee's, growth can be no other way, but on.

I Love you Sis!:heart:

Greetings Sister Uplift, I have read and re-read what you wrote but am not clear as to what you mean. Maybe it's due tot he lateness of the hour but I'd like to ask you to please explain what you meant or to elaborate more because I know there is a deep meaning there that I want to grasp.I'm just basically saying that intelligent people can articulate their emotions so clearly, that a point of view that is emotional can seem rational. I was also pointing out that when we place expectations (sometimes unrealistic) about what we want in a potential partner that are not based on experience or based solely on bad experiences, we can damage the health of future relationships and even deter ourselves from having a relationship with a person that may be good for us for some silly or superficial reason. We sometimes trick ourselves into believing things matter that really don't. For instance, there was a thread about how much astrology factors in to our decision of a mate. If you were to say "I'm a leo so I don't get along with any scorpios" then you may not consider a worthy potential mate, when there are so many other factors that determine why folks get together.

Sister Uplift, thank you for the expansion of your opinion...now I have a clearer understanding of what you meant. It's interesting you used the astrology thread as your example because I think I was one that agreed it was important to consider when choosing a mate. But not for the purpose of excluding consideration of someone, per se, but to be aware of some potentially compatible traits as well as some incompatible traits in a mate. Some people will choose to follow the information closely and some will dismiss it but at least, either way, you are armed with valuable information.

Thanks again sis,
Queenie :spinstar:

:) :read: I know you do sister :) and TRUST the respect is mutually so :) :grouphug: Though many dont see it sister I understand when you start what seems to many as "controversial threads" that you are only stirring us up enough so that we can self-evaluate and I appreciate it much sister.



Actually Sistah Queen... Yes. I do know how much you love brotha Samurai. I would dare go as far to say that anyone whom acknowledged and appreciated him... the first and foremost always has been and still is... you. Being that I am an observant Taurus who sees through the eyes of a Leo with the personality of a Libra... I noticed the album changes you made and naturally "sistah to sistah" I knew whom it was for... so for that sister... I find myself simply almost baffled and frankly borderline distraught over the the failure of our essences to permeate the sadness our Brotha Kings have shared. Speaking frankly sister... I took my time responding because...well, when I initially came to destee Brotha Khasms words were a salve to much of the personal suffering I was going through (I still wish him & his Queen the most happiness) from then on Destee.com found its place in my heart by the overabounding love that I could come and find HERE... Sister, I am close to forgetting how that feels here @ our cyber community. I HATE that my heart feels MORE burdened by SHOWING and GIVING love to our brothas... *sigh* and as I have no other way to say it sister... I dont know if I want to keep doing this anymore.

That being said... I DO understand brotha O's perspective. This is a MUTUAL problem that we MUST bridge.... and youre RIGHT its NOT about starting a "fight" mercy knows we don' had a he!!uva lotta dat to last our people 100 lifetimes. This is about HOLDING EACH OTHER ACCOUNTABLE AND HEALING OUR HEARTS AND MOVING ON. While we SPEAK it we WALK it we BREATHE it and LIVE it so that together we can BE it... but again sister... I dont know if my heart is strong to keep fighting an uphill battle and seeing that the eyes on the opposing side belong to OUR BLAK MAN smh honey the heart can only take so much at a time.



Greetings sister Uplift :) Before I respond to your post here in this thread I wanted to say how much I have appreciated your many comments posts etc. Your wisdom is most refreshing, I am glad you have found your way into the house :) :grouphug: :)

Having said that :) :read:... I do see where you are coming from sister, and its true, much of what we say do and are is emotionally driven. In retrospect what you say here is very true sister but truthfully sister in my humble opinion much of this can often be chalked up to human nature so how do we EDUCATE our people to go BEYOND that?

And sister in educating and growing we will end up setting what to some may seem like "relationship goals" one brethrens "goal" is anothers "standards" or anothers "morals" and so forth. I dont think that its the "setting" of these goals/morals/ideals/standards that is hurting us. I think you are on to something when you touch on the "EMOTION" involved. A balance has to be maintained between the emotion and the mind.

Its safe to say the dissension supercedes the relationship threads sister but in a sense its the "relationship" with each other that is the problem. You are right sister... we have become so emotionally driven we are blinded by the truths of our situations. As I read through the forum I realize that oftentimes the solutions to many of our problems are laidout like clockwork BUT we are so driven by our frustration, our anger, our disappointment, our sadness, our love, our raging indignation that we fail to see the TRUTH standing before us. I know I'm guilty of it. Why I was just saying to sister River, prior to my addressing you, that the influx of disparaging comments of Brothas/Sistahs against Brothas/Sistahs has taxed me so much I will be taking a destee.com vacation of sorts lol to soothe my senses.

You have given me a healthy portion of brain food my sister :) and it has done my own spirit so much good :) Thank you sister :)



Ahhhhhhhhhhhh my sistah QueenieBeanie (((((((HUGS)))))) I just KNOW you are reading this post like "LAWD THIS CHILE SO LONGWINDED :lol: " Youre right sister I do earnestly believe that every sistah who has replied to this thread is earnestly looking to interface with our BLAK MAN on a more positive tip which is great. Speaking of which sister I do believe this would also make a great sistah chat topic... or at least the sistah chat I like to remember :thinking: at any rate I think sistah uplift said alot without saying too much (cause you know this bit of mine is a doozy :laugh: ) I too hope she would come back to the thread and enlighten us on her perspective



HEYYYYY SISTER PURRRRRRRRRPLEEEE (((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))
lol Sorry Sistah Queen it just felt like it had been so long since I hugged you :) You are a beacon of hope sister. You remind me of sister Bluewater because you both have that knack for educating and soothing all in the same touch :) and I love it :grouphug:

As I read over your post... THIS stuck out the most for me.... [QUOTE]How am I contributing to this feeling? QUOTE] I suppose a part of my pride was so adamant that I was not contributing to this and my emotions blinded me to the fact that I myself may in some way shape or form contribute in the angst many of our brothas have so plentifully expressed. Even if it is in the most miniscule way it must be extinguished and I appreciate the call for me to self evaluate! :look: :)

You said it best sister and I think that is the right mentality to have. Taking each day step by step all the while learning and growing together. :read:
**********************************
~TO ALL MY SISTAHS~
I have THOROUGHLY enjoyed and loved sharing with all of my sisters in this thread. I just wanted to take a minute out of this extensive multi-tasking response (lol) just to say that for all our Sistah Queens trying and striving for the betterment of our BLAK UNIT as a whole... I love you sisters so much. You are my peers in arms and my spirit finds solace and rejuvination in bonding and healing with you all (((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Annnnnnnnnnd last but most DEF not least :)...

:grouphug: Peace to you Brotha King Omowalejabali :) :grouphug: You wanna know something? (well too late sugah I'm gon tell ya anyway ;) lol ) I often wonder if our brethren REALLY read all that is being exchanged ACROSS the forum. Heck across the net itself. Suffice to say, though I am registered at other forums, Destee.com has always been the cyber "home" for my online travels, so my observations are based on what I have seen here. The reason I say so is because IF we were to do as Sistah Uplift says and put aside "emotion" long enough to evaluate and diagnose our problems than we can truly do as sistah Purple has mentioned and PER-FECT our beautiful BLAK nation. Buuuut... none of the aforementioned are easy tasks and the river is always deeper than it seems. Truthfully brotha I dont think any of the sistahs in this thread would argue that you are wrong in saying that MANY blak women DO shoot down a Brothas attempt to be open and honest about his experiences. But as sistah River touched on... truly... when do we stop focusing on the pain and focus on our wounds? At some point Sistahs AND Brothas alike have to stop pointing fingers and lingering in the pain that we ALLLLL have suffered and WANT to be better. *sigh* And if anyone encapsulated the heart of my approaching state of being, it would be you, because it seems we are so engrossed in our own suffering that we are just going to bleed to death, and honey.... I'm one of those who are beginning to

sister trini,
i know the feeling but my mother's birth name is FAITH and whenever i get the feeling that "nobody loves me but my mother, well i know she ain't lying when she says "i love you" and i am reminded to ALWAYS KEEP THE FAITH! and for this reason i keep FAITH because a BLACK WOMAN named FAITH raised me!

:bowdown:

@ SISTER TRINITY...

"I know you do sister :) and TRUST the respect is mutually so :) :grouphug: Though many dont see it sister I understand when you start what seems to many as "controversial threads" that you are only stirring us up enough so that we can self-evaluate and I appreciate it much sister."

I'M GLAD TO HEAR YOU UNDERSTAND MY STANCE SISTER:)

I'm just basically saying that intelligent people can articulate their emotions so clearly, that a point of view that is emotional can seem rational. I was also pointing out that when we place expectations (sometimes unrealistic) about what we want in a potential partner that are not based on experience or based solely on bad experiences, we can damage the health of future relationships and even deter ourselves from having a relationship with a person that may be good for us for some silly or superficial reason. We sometimes trick ourselves into believing things matter that really don't. For instance, there was a thread about how much astrology factors in to our decision of a mate. If you were to say "I'm a leo so I don't get along with any scorpios" then you may not consider a worthy potential mate, when there are so many other factors that determine why folks get together.

Sister Uplift, I've had several more days to think about what you wrote that I've quoted here, and I'd like to re-visit it and get more of your and other's thoughts on it.

The part about decisions based on emotions and how we sometimes trick outselves into believing things matter that really don't. I know this is your opinion and others might agree or disagree, but what suggestions do you have on ways to avoid letting your emotions play a key role in the types of decisions we (as women) make about relationships? Are there some typical signs to look out for that lets a sister know that she's acting on emotion and not rational thinking? Do you think women tend to see what they want to see and deny reality? Do we fantasize about our relationships because we desperately want to be in one?

What are some of your thoughts?

Queenie :spinstar:

What suggestions do you have on ways to avoid letting your emotions play a key role in the types of decisions we (as women) make about relationships? Are there some typical signs to look out for that lets a sister know that she's acting on emotion and not rational thinking? This is difficult, because it's easier said than done. While you are in the midst of something it is hard to see through the clouded thinking. I think we all have had moments where in the back of our mind we tell ourselves "don't do that" and we do something anyway. I would say listen to the voice and don't quiet it. If you have to constantly convince yourself what you're doing makes sense that is usually a red flag.

Do you think women tend to see what they want to see and deny reality? Do we fantasize about our relationships because we desperately want to be in one?Yes and no. At some point we are all blinded by our emotions to think irrationally and see what we want to see. I think sometimes we do see things but choose to ignore them to keep up some fantasy.

The way weddings are treated in this society sets you up for just this kind of disappointment. The faulty courtship process adhered to in western culture involves all types of false impressions that fall apart after you enter into a marriage. That's when you find out who you are really with.

As in all things, I think the key here is balance. We have to make decisions about our mates as if we are scientists and not hopeless romantics. In other words, think about your goals for your own life and your family life. If the two of you do not agree on those things then you probably shouldn't make a lifelong commitment. On the other hand, if you are already in a marriage I do not think we should be so quick to divorce. If we had realistic expectations in the first place instead of allowing ourselves to be wooed (sp?) to the point that we think the man is perfect (which no one is), then we wouldn't be disappointed when we find out he is not.

I agree with you completely, Sister Uplift...balance is the key and even though that may sound like a term that's over used and given often as advice, it certainly makes it worth us giving it serious attention especially if what people are doing now isn't working.

The challenge though, is trying to figure out how to reach a balance between emotional feelings and rational thinking. You make a very interesting point about: We have to make decisions about our mates as if we are scientists and not hopeless romantics. But gosh, those heart strings can get your mind all twisted sometimes, right?

What's involved in finding the balance? Does it mean we must second guess every single thought or behavior? Must we always question someone's intent behind the things they do and say? How do we maintain a sense of calm within ourselves and not wind up paranoid?

How do we balance our natural selves with our spiritual selves?

Queenie :spinstar:

This is difficult, because it's easier said than done. While you are in the midst of something it is hard to see through the clouded thinking. I think we all have had moments where in the back of our mind we tell ourselves "don't do that" and we do something anyway. I would say listen to the voice and don't quiet it. If you have to constantly convince yourself what you're doing makes sense that is usually a red flag.

Yes and no. At some point we are all blinded by our emotions to think irrationally and see what we want to see. I think sometimes we do see things but choose to ignore them to keep up some fantasy.

The way weddings are treated in this society sets you up for just this kind of disappointment. The faulty courtship process adhered to in western culture involves all types of false impressions that fall apart after you enter into a marriage. That's when you find out who you are really with.

As in all things, I think the key here is balance. We have to make decisions about our mates as if we are scientists and not hopeless romantics. In other words, think about your goals for your own life and your family life. If the two of you do not agree on those things then you probably shouldn't make a lifelong commitment. On the other hand, if you are already in a marriage I do not think we should be so quick to divorce. If we had realistic expectations in the first place instead of allowing ourselves to be wooed (sp?) to the point that we think the man is perfect (which no one is), then we wouldn't be disappointed when we find out he is not.

Excellent advice Sister!:jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

Which is why it is important to relearn who we truly are. When we do this we are more attentive to those voices and/or redflags. We learn to reevaluate and rationalize more efficiently.

Thank you Sister for the solid advice!

How do we balance our natural selves with our spiritual selves?I think our natural self is our spiritual self. It's just like I said, we have that voice in the back of our mind, our self-accusing spirit, that tells us when we are about to jump off a cliff. We just choose to not listen to it sometimes and jump anyway because other fools have jumped before us. We have to be true to ourselves.

We do not have to be paranoid, and I think we should have feelings and emotions. We wouldn't be human without them. I do think, though, we should not let them be the basis for our DECISIONS.

For example, I go to a mosque where we play no music during the meeting. Christians always ask in disbelief "ya'll don't have no music?!?!" and I ask them how they can properly receive the Word of God if they are all stirred up emotionally with an organ playing and vibrating with folks singing. You know Black folks are sensitive to these things because we have melanin (another topic), so why not appeal to the mind and reason instead of the emotions? It's no wonder at the end of the meeting when they ask people to give their life to christ they always have folks up there and get money after passing the basket 4 times, because they are caught up in the emotion of the moment. They do not understand what they have signed up for. There is no compulsion in religion (at least there should not be).

I've heard women say not to make the decision whether or not to have sex with someone in the midst of kissing them and being aroused. They say decide beforehand whether you want to or not so that when the opportunity comes, you have already decided whether to say yes or no (whether or not you stick to that decision :), which goes back to what I was saying about ignoring that voice)

It's the same way with deciding on who to spend your life with. You cannot make that decision while you are "high" on emotion.

I think our natural self is our spiritual self. It's just like I said, we have that voice in the back of our mind, our self-accusing spirit, that tells us when we are about to jump off a cliff. We just choose to not listen to it sometimes and jump anyway because other fools have jumped before us. We have to be true to ourselves. This made me smile when I read it because it just resonated with truth, in my opinion.

Do you think most people KNOW enough about themselves to be true to?

Queenie :spinstar:

Do you think most people KNOW enough about themselves to be true to?No. That is why people are getting divorced and others say they are not ready for marriage. One of my pet peeves, though, is people who say "we just got married too young." What they are really saying is that they were too immature at the time (did not know enough about SELF) to enter into a long-term commitment.

God, I wish more Sisters in the world, spoke and thought as you awesome Black women do. :crying:

PEACE

God, I wish more Sisters in the world, spoke and thought as you awesome Black women do. :crying:Hey, what's with all the :cry:? Just find a sister "in the world" and bring her to destee.com to learn :)

Sister Uplift, let's talk about process. What process does a sister follow to begin to know who she is? Is it a universal process that applies to all women regardless of their culture or is the process for knowing rooted in cultural and/or spiritual contexts?

Sister Uplift, let's talk about process. What process does a sister follow to begin to know who she is? Is it a universal process that applies to all women regardless of their culture or is the process for knowing rooted in cultural and/or spiritual contexts?

:jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

I am looking forward to Sister uplifts input! This is going to be so helpful for us. I hope our sisters will be paying attention.

i just come in here and in this topic .....
with a mood as if i came in a egypt bathing house for woman :heart: :heart: ...


and they were doing they hair and toos and this beautifull sister came in ..

you nnqueen.... ..............lol and it became silent and you ....
asked youre question ""are you ready for youre man ""as you sat down in the hot .......

bath......listening for the respondings looking with serius eyes to all of us......



LOOOL o my lord...



and me comming out of a corner with a towel in my hair....(rubbing my neck cause it still hurts)

and one eyebrown up......






mm?




lol......












falling of my chair here.....








No sis this is a good question
and i tought about this for a long time...



i will come back to this to respond ...
but first i like to read all the reply,s slowly ..
when i am in in good concentration and health ...
and my dictionary book...and time..



i already want to say somthing..
and that is that ,trough whole youre life you grow...
"'it would be beautifull to grow together a relationship .....""( that makes it i think even more beautifull)
that is apart from growing on youre own in life....
cause you always learn youre whole life trough ...
you never stop learning and so you are always growing...
so in that way you are mayby never ready......

but i do believe Gods love can prepare you and help you to prepare for certain things in life...in wich he can give you a certain ground of direction..and guidance
cause i do believe that when you enter in a relationship youre will never be perfect..."'tough he may say that "' she is perfect ...."" she is my queen .....


a queeeen to meee an...... of perfection (comming to america lol)



when you ask this question i directly think about...
am i ready for a relationship ...
and the love in that relationship..
i,m i ready to become one with that man....
am i ready for life..


if he apears on gods time ...
and not my time...

lol...




but i wil come back ....
to learn and share with my sisters here...:heart:




Loveyou sissters:flowers: ..







Loveauroraflower:heart:

Wow!....As a man, I know I should'nt be in here, but....
As a newly single male....this thread is so informative. It's good for me to see how sistas think on this topic....

Im in the preparatory stage myself....I aint tryin to jump back into nothing quick....Im tryin to build the temple, so when that queen shows up, I have something to offer.....but I aint puttin everything into "gettin a woman"....there are so many other areas in my life I have to also attend to..

Im just tryin to learn to love myself....as some of the sistas here said.

Excellent post, Sista Queen.