..."minstrel show" or breakthrough...unfortunately all I saw was the former...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/06/AR2006030601461.html

"Minstrel Show" indeed.......It's a shame how nobody expects anything great to come for us anymore.......So much so, that they reward us for our bafoonery.

"Minstrel Show" indeed.......It's a shame how nobody expects anything great to come for us anymore.......So much so, that they reward us for our bafoonery.

Me and my mother and sisters had this same discussion!
Yes indeed it was a slap in the face and an insult to us!
My mother told me I was militant and a racist!
She said it was the first time blacks performed on the oscars
The my sistah started singing the lyrics
Ya know it's hard out here for a pimp
I don't know the rest of the lyrics but I asked my mother to listen to the lyrics and look at them performing on stage like it's the black national anthem!I said you don't see anything wrong with!

I just posted on another thread, of how they couldn't find a better facet of Hip-Hop, and of Blackness to represent us?

I know more than a Dozen Hip-Hop affiliated groups that have done movie scores over the past year.....Material that is intelligent, and heart-felt.

How do they justify this foolishness? It's like White people want to constantly remind us of how foolish they view us as being.

Such a shame.......And then we wonder why no one takes us seriously.......Not even ourselves. :uhoh:

why the surprise?did we actually expect anything different from hollywood?

The Glorification of the pimp has been re-emurging for years. The question is who are the real pimps and the real hoes...?


Peace.........

The Glorification of the pimp has been re-emurging for years. The question is who are the real pimps and the real hoes...?


Peace.........

This Oscar Nomination showed us this. We are still the proverbial "***" for the White man, as he continues to "pimp" us, our image, our "talent" (or in this case, the lack thereof), and our ignorance.

This Oscar Nomination showed us this. We are still the proverbial "***" for the White man, as he continues to "pimp" us, our image, our "talent" (or in this case, the lack thereof), and our ignorance.


Still makes you wonder, what next? The acceptance of rappers and rap songs that are as polar opposite to white main stream America as it gets.. We're being set up for something more diabolically mind.


Peace....

This Oscar Nomination showed us this. We are still the proverbial "***" for the White man, as he continues to "pimp" us, our image, our "talent" (or in this case, the lack thereof), and our ignorance.


I wouldn't say talentless. Its hard for people outside the region to appreciate their product, but Juicy and DJ Paul have produced some extremely dope tracks over the years.

Still makes you wonder, what next? The acceptance of rappers and rap songs that are as polar opposite to white main stream America as it gets.. We're being set up for something more diabolically mind.


Peace....

True indeed. How is it that our people are never prepared for the "Okey-Doke", when the white man hits us? :bam:

Note: this topic is also being discussed here:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?p=404296&posted=1#post404296

I wouldn't say talentless. Its hard for people outside the region to appreciate their product, but Juicy and DJ Paul have produced some extremely dope tracks over the years.


By the "region", I assume you mean the South? If so, then perhaps you are right. I admit, that as a Northerner myself, I am biased to Hip-Hop that comes from the North (NY, NJ, PHILLY, DC, etc).

However, There are MC's worldwide who keep the culture pure, like RAS KASS (LA), COMMON (CHICAGO), and others.

So it's not just a regional thing, it's a traditional thing.

The way I see it every Black person that has had some level of success out here is a Pimp......because we're out here trying to pimp this system and these white folk the same way they pimp some of us........talk about game and grinding.........this real life is the real grind and this game is the one a lot of us have to play daily to get that bread and pay them bills and feed them kids......I pimp the system and white folk and my job for everything they got....I'm out here running them h0es 25/8 and in that sense it is hard out here for a pimp.......cause if you trying to make it in this system and you aint' grinding and pimping you aint' making it......


MississippiRed

We must uplift our black people
In there time of shine not
Let our own personal thoughts and feelings
Bring there sucess down

Official G 14: Classified Member
******************************

The way I see it every Black person that has had some level of success out here is a Pimp......because we're out here trying to pimp this system and these white folk the same way they pimp some of us........talk about game and grinding.........this real life is the real grind and this game is the one a lot of us have to play daily to get that bread and pay them bills and feed them kids......I pimp the system and white folk and my job for everything they got....I'm out here running them h0es 25/8 and in that sense it is hard out here for a pimp.......cause if you trying to make it in this system and you aint' grinding and pimping you aint' making it......


MississippiRed

That's an interesting usage of the slang, but the reality is that there is not a Black person alive that is "pimping" the White man.

You're not "pimping" him on his job.....If he is the one signing the checks, then you are the one getting pimped, not him.

If you're paying bills to his companies, then you are getting pimped, not him.

In order to pimp him, you have to have something that he wants........And the only thing that he wants from us, is our LABOR........

That's what Pimps get from "h0es", their labor, their time.

Like you said: "25/8".

Until we get from him, what he is getting from us, then we will never be pimping him, and not only will he continue to pimp us, but we will also continue to pimp ourselves.

We must uplift our black people
In there time of shine not
Let our own personal thoughts and feelings
Bring there sucess down


Even if that "success" hurts us as a people?

Even if that "success" hurts us as a people?

I dont think it hurts us we learn something from everything
we do in life so if we are to change this as you brothers
and sisters think we should there should be a plan
devised on how we can change this...

If we continue to let things affect our communities in a negative way
then thats all we will ever get is negative

Official G 14: Classified Member
******************************

I dont think it hurts us we learn something from everything
we do in life so if we are to change this as you brothers
and sisters think we should there should be a plan
devised on how we can change this...

If we continue to let things affect our communities in a negative way
then thats all we will ever get is negative



I think you're oblivious to the fact that there is plenty that's positive in our communities, that never gets portrayed or represented.

It's not a "success", that the white man choses this group, out of so many positive groups, to represent us as a people.

Thus, I'll ask you the same question I've asked already, yet no one seems to want to even try to answer:

Do you think that this group and their song, is the best representation of what Hip-Hop can create? Is this the best example of us putting our best foot forward?

That's an interesting usage of the slang, but the reality is that there is not a Black person alive that is "pimping" the White man.

You're not "pimping" him on his job.....If he is the one signing the checks, then you are the one getting pimped, not him.

If you're paying bills to his companies, then you are getting pimped, not him.

In order to pimp him, you have to have something that he wants........And the only thing that he wants from us, is our LABOR........

That's what Pimps get from "h0es", their labor, their time.

Like you said: "25/8".

Until we get from him, what he is getting from us, then we will never be pimping him, and not only will he continue to pimp us, but we will also continue to pimp ourselves.



Then what's the alternative.......operate inside and outside the system or don't operate at all...........I can't say I'm getting pimped........I get more out of my job by working outside their system than the white employees or other employees of other races get working with their system..........and you can pimp their system even with them signing the checks............you have to learn to manipulate the system to get what you want and need......to me that's pimping.......that's grinding........we can agree to disagree on this one.....

Red

By the "region", I assume you mean the South? If so, then perhaps you are right. I admit, that as a Northerner myself, I am biased to Hip-Hop that comes from the North (NY, NJ, PHILLY, DC, etc).

However, There are MC's worldwide who keep the culture pure, like RAS KASS (LA), COMMON (CHICAGO), and others.

So it's not just a regional thing, it's a traditional thing.

By "pure" I assume you mean having a sound reminiscent of NY's glory years. If that's what you mean by keeping the culture pure, so be it. All in all, a dope track is a dope track, regardless of region. Its a lot of NY heads that appreciate Juicy's gift with the ASR-10. They may not dig the entire buck movement, but a lot of em still respect 3-6's interpretation. Personally, I don't even call what Lil Jon, 3-6, Cash Money, Luke, No Limit, and host of other "popular" southern artists do hip hop. It deserves of genre of its own. I lot of elitists (especially NY heads) like to put the downfall of hip hop and southern artists, when the truth is, the INDUSTRY caused the downfall. A lot of southern artists were rich being independent and catering to the southern region before the "majors" came knocking with astronomical distribution deals.
It would have been extremely difficult to market these artists as a new genre of urban music, so the majors conveniently placed them in the hip hop genre.

Then what's the alternative.......operate inside and outside the system or don't operate at all...........I can't say I'm getting pimped........I get more out of my job by working outside their system than the white employees or other employees of other races get working with their system..........and you can pimp their system even with them signing the checks............you have to learn to manipulate the system to get what you want and need......to me that's pimping.......that's grinding........we can agree to disagree on this one.....

Red

I agree, you can manipulate their system from the inside........I do it all the time.

But manipulating them, is not the same as pimping them.

The relationship between a pimp and a "h0e" is a clear cut one. There is not confusing the positions. The pimp can kick the h0e to the curb, and not suffer that much, if at all. The h0e cannot do this, because she (in this case, us) has no such power over that transaction.

Until you have the white man on his knees, begging you to "stop smacking" you, then you are not pimping him.

I think you're oblivious to the fact that there is plenty that's positive in our communities, that never gets portrayed or represented.

It's not a "success", that the white man choses this group, out of so many positive groups, to represent us as a people.

Thus, I'll ask you the same question I've asked already, yet no one seems to want to even try to answer:

Do you think that this group and their song, is the best representation of what Hip-Hop can create? Is this the best example of us putting our best foot forward?

Its not the best hip-hop has to offer yet in a time where blacks can barely get there foot in the door atleast this is a start my brother. we all have to start some where it seems that you have alot built up towards this issue

yet like i said we need to make a change for ourselves before we can change others and we need to go with the power and energy and push for the change not just speak of it

Thus, I'll ask you the same question I've asked already, yet no one seems to want to even try to answer:

Do you think that this group and their song, is the best representation of what Hip-Hop can create? Is this the best example of us putting our best foot forward?

Brother SAMURAI ... i'll try to answer your questions ...

The best that hip hop can create? It depends on who you ask. If you ask those affiliated with this group, i'm sure they'd say yes. Do you expect all of us to agree on one best representation of the art?

The best example of us putting our best foot foward? Every best foot forward is a best example for us. There are many. Why try to tear one down, to lift another up. Why not lift them all up?

:heart:

Destee

By "pure" I assume you mean having a sound reminiscent of NY's glory years. If that's what you mean by keeping the culture pure, so be it.

True indeed.

All in all, a dope track is a dope track, regardless of region. Its a lot of NY heads that appreciate Juicy's gift with the ASR-10. They may not dig the entire buck movement, but a lot of em still respect 3-6's interpretation.

Fair enough, but until he does something that even remotely resembles the "boom-bap", that break-beat style that is the core and Essence of Hip-Hop, then it's all for naught, as far as I'm concerned.

Now, I'm sure that he is "talented" within the realm that he exsists within, but that's a different issue entirely.

Speaking of which:


Personally, I don't even call what Lil Jon, 3-6, Cash Money, Luke, No Limit, and host of other "popular" southern artists do hip hop. It deserves of genre of its own.

I agree. Therein lies the issue: this stuff from the artists that you mentioned here, gets confused in the public eye of what Hip-Hop truly is, which means that an unsuspecting public, and all of its facets are not able to tell the difference.

For example, the local "urban" radio station here, plays nothing but the artists you named all day, all night. However, on their station tag, they have the nerve to say ".......Playing continuous Hip-Hop and R&B....."

At best, this is nothing but false advertisement. At worst, it's a straight-out LIE.

Rarely does this station play KRS, SUNZ OF MAN, JEDI MIND TRICKS, CANIBUS, and other true Hip-Hop MC's.

So until they give these artists fair and equal airplay, then they cannot rightly say that they are playing "continous Hip-Hop".

I lot of elitists (especially NY heads) like to put the downfall of hip hop and southern artists, when the truth is, the INDUSTRY caused the downfall.

Can you define what "the INDUSTRY" precisely is, and how it caused the downfall?

Because in my mind (indeed, that of a "NY head"), the downfall was caused by people stepping up the Mic, with no skills and no talent, yet calling themselves "rappers".

Such as 3-6 Mafia.

The "industry" then became oversaturated with these sorts of people, maquerading as MC's, and convincing an unsuspecting public of such, who was/is no more the wiser.

A lot of southern artists were rich being independent and catering to the southern region before the "majors" came knocking with astronomical distribution deals.

Yes, with deals, distribtuting a product that is erroneously labeled as "Hip-Hop".

I don't see LIL JON and 3-6 disputing the claim that they are considered Hip-Hop, when people label them as such.

It would have been extremely difficult to market these artists as a new genre of urban music, so the majors conveniently placed them in the hip hop genre.

I disagree; it would be extremely easy, if the artist themselves........The ones with these "astronomical distribution deals"..........Would begin to announce themselves as something different.

That's how Hip-Hop got started in the first place. Any Underground Hip-Hop MC who is rightly worth the title, announces in nearly every song, that they represent "Hip-Hop to the fullest", and not that ol' watered down BS.

How hard would it be for 3-6 to say that they represent "CRUNK" or whatever it is that they do?

Especially now, that they are "Oscar Winners"? They have the attention of the whole world now.

Why didn't NELLY say to the world that he doesn't represent Hip-Hop, when he tried to fire back at KRS-ONE (and Kris fried his little @$$)? That was the perfect time to speak up.

LL-COOL-J was going around calling himself the G.O.A.T. (greatest of all time), during a time when he no longer represented Hip-Hop. Why didn't he clarify himself, when CANIBUS (possibly one of the rawest MC's in the entire 90's decade) was "ripping the Jacker"?

These dudes can speak up whenever they wish, but they choose not to. They know what they are doing when they choose to falsely represent a culture that's not entirely theirs, even if Hip-Hop did spawn their new genres.

And the white people who give them their "astronomical deals" know what they're doing as well.

It would appearing that "Pimpin' " really ain't that hard afterall. :rolleyes:

PEACE

Originally Posted by SAMURAI36
I think you're oblivious to the fact that there is plenty that's positive in our communities, that never gets portrayed or represented.

It's not a "success", that the white man choses this group, out of so many positive groups, to represent us as a people.

Thus, I'll ask you the same question I've asked already, yet no one seems to want to even try to answer:

Do you think that this group and their song, is the best representation of what Hip-Hop can create? Is this the best example of us putting our best foot forward?
Our feet are beyond being forward in terms of music,without us this country's music would be plain garbage.I just think that since the people that make those awards like the song,they gave 3-6 mafia an award.There are plenty of rappers out there (ie common,dead prez) that can do better than that song on a regular basis.

Brother SAMURAI ... i'll try to answer your questions ...

The best that hip hop can create? It depends on who you ask. If you ask those affiliated with this group, i'm sure they'd say yes. Do you expect all of us to agree on one best representation of the art?

The best example of us putting our best foot foward? Every best foot forward is a best example for us. There are many. Why try to tear one down, to lift another up. Why not lift them all up?

:heart:

Destee

When our people are standing on the corner selling poison to our people, do you lift that up as well? When our people are in jail by the 1,000s, do you uplift this?

If not, then we must separate the wheat from the chaff.

Does anyone here actually know the appropriate definition of what a "Pimp" is?

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/pimp.html

Last I checked, it's nothing positive.

And until that definition somehow miraculously changes, then no, I'm not going lift up the efforts of someone who venerates such a term.

That to me, is no different than making a song that says "Being a ******* ain't easy".

At what point do we begin to raise the bar towards excellence, and out of the gutter?

PEACE

Our feet are beyond being forward in terms of music,without us this country's music would be plain garbage.I just think that since the people that make those awards like the song,they gave 3-6 mafia an award.There are plenty of rappers out there (ie common,dead prez) that can do better than that song on a regular basis.

Then why are they not being represented?

Do you honestly believe that the people who make those awards (please do some research on these White connglammorate) like 3-6 Mafia: the epitome of bafoonery in the eyes of the white man?

When our people are standing on the corner selling poison to our people, do you lift that up as well? When our people are in jail by the 1,000s, do you uplift this?

If not, then we must separate the wheat from the chaff.

Does anyone here actually know the appropriate definition of what a "Pimp" is?

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/pimp.html

Last I checked, it's nothing positive.

And until that definition somehow miraculously changes, then no, I'm not going lift up the efforts of someone who venerates such a term.

That to me, is no different than making a song that says "Being a ******* ain't easy".

At what point do we begin to raise the bar towards excellence, and out of the gutter?

PEACE

Brother SAMURAI ... this may be why no one tried to answer your questions. You have all the answers.

:heart:

Destee

Its not the best hip-hop has to offer yet in a time where blacks can barely get there foot in the door atleast this is a start my brother. we all have to start some where it seems that you have alot built up towards this issue

Firstly, I don't have anything "built up" about this. I'm simply stating my perspective on this issue, just like you are.

The issue still remains, that unlike 30 years ago, there are hundreds of different artists that the white man could have chosen from to represent the culture as a whole.

Can you truly not see the duplicitous agenda behind them choosing these "not the best" artists to represent black people's achievements?

When did we become a people who rewards under-achievers?

yet like i said we need to make a change for ourselves before we can change others and we need to go with the power and energy and push for the change not just speak of it

Who are "others", outside of ourselves? 3-6 Mafia can do whatever they wish. I could care less. This is really not about them.

It's about how they've been appointed as the benchmark for "achievement" as far as our music genre in particular, and our people as a whole are concerned.

Just a couple of years ago, Halle Berry and Denzel had "won" this very same award, for playing a whore and a crooked thug cop, respectively.

Meanwhile, neither of these actors got anything for playing the numerous positive roles that they've done over their years of both their very lengthy careers.

The white people who own the Oscars, do not reward Black people with positivity. Otherwise they'd have done it along time ago, and they'd do it far more often.

Instead, they reward us every once in a while, and even then, it's only for mediocrity and negativity.

They know exactly what they are doing.......What is an awful shame, is that we don't.

PEACE

Brother SAMURAI ... this may be why no one tried to answer your questions. You have all the answers.

:heart:

Destee

That's a great retort to my statements, Destee. :(

Firstly, I don't have anything "built up" about this. I'm simply stating my perspective on this issue, just like you are.

The issue still remains, that unlike 30 years ago, there are hundreds of different artists that the white man could have chosen from to represent the culture as a whole.

Can you truly not see the duplicitous agenda behind them choosing these "not the best" artists to represent black people's achievements?

When did we become a people who rewards under-achievers?



Who are "others", outside of ourselves? 3-6 Mafia can do whatever they wish. I could care less. This is really not about them.

It's about how they've been appointed as the benchmark for "achievement" as far as our music genre in particular, and our people as a whole are concerned.

Just a couple of years ago, Halle Berry and Denzel had "won" this very same award, for playing a whore and a crooked thug cop, respectively.

Meanwhile, neither of these actors got anything for playing the numerous positive roles that they've done over their years of both their very lengthy careers.

The white people who own the Oscars, do not reward Black people with positivity. Otherwise they'd have done it along time ago, and they'd do it far more often.

Instead, they reward us every once in a while, and even then, it's only for mediocrity and negativity.

They know exactly what they are doing.......What is an awful shame, is that we don't.

PEACE


Okay Bruh Okay

That's a great retort to my statements, Destee. :(

Brother SAMURAI ... i don't mean to be ugly ... but gosh ... it seems in your own mind, that you're always right, you know everything, others know nothing, or very little ... you're an authority on all discussions you take part in ... there just doesn't seem to be any room for real dialogue with you. No room for each learning from the other.

It's a fight or nothing at all.

I don't know if you realize you give this impression, but you do.

:heart:

Destee

I agree. Therein lies the issue: this stuff from the artists that you mentioned here, gets confused in the public eye of what Hip-Hop truly is, which means that an unsuspecting public, and all of its facets are not able to tell the difference.

For example, the local "urban" radio station here, plays nothing but the artists you named all day, all night. However, on their station tag, they have the nerve to say ".......Playing continuous Hip-Hop and R&B....."

At best, this is nothing but false advertisement. At worst, it's a straight-out LIE.

Rarely does this station play KRS, SUNZ OF MAN, JEDI MIND TRICKS, CANIBUS, and other true Hip-Hop MC's.

So until they give these artists fair and equal airplay, then they cannot rightly say that they are playing "continous Hip-Hop".


PEACE

Is that radio station black owned? How many black owned radio stations or major media outlets are there? That's the problem. "We" don't dictate what the masses see and hear. So blame Clearchannel and other media conglomerates for that, not Lil Jon and 3-6. Besides, those artists were around since 1992 selling out of the trunk and in Ma and Pop stores. They "never" said that they were hip hop, and neither did the fans. Lil Jon consistently says he is the King of CRUNK not hip hop. 3-6 state they started the whole crunk and buck movement. Luke did bootyshake. These artists never personally classified themselves as hip hop. Outside regions just got exposed to this 5-6 years ago under the label of hip hop thru smart marketing and advertising. It was never considered hip hop in the dirty. Keep in mind these artists have been doing this for over a decade easily. They became popular when big companies got involved, thus, the product had to be marketed a certain way to gain mass appeal Oh yea, Canibus was heavy in the 90s, but saying he ruled that decade is a stretch. Ras Kass was way colder cause his punchlines and verses were charismatic and touched relevant issues. JMT is pretty dope. Stoupe's tracks are insane sometimes. I'll comment on the industry shortly

Brother SAMURAI ... i don't mean to be ugly ... but gosh ... it seems in your own mind, that you're always right, you know everything, others know nothing, or very little ... you're an authority on all discussions you take part in ... there just doesn't seem to be any room for real dialogue with you. No room for each learning from the other.

It's a fight or nothing at all.

I don't know if you realize you give this impression, but you do.

:heart:

Destee

I would only take merit to this, if everyone that I interact with, felt this very same way that you do.

But the honest truth is, they don't. For every person you could name here that supports your perspective, I can name one who doesn't.

I realize that I'm not going to always be well-received by everyone, and that's fine with me.

Are you always well-received? And if you're not, does that somehow diminish your character, and who you are as a person?


it seems in your own mind, that you're always right, you know everything, others know nothing, or very little ...

Not to be disrespectful in the slightest, but how is it that you've come to know what's "in my own mind"?

That being the case, I must humbly object.

I tell people when they are correct, and when I'm not, constantly on here. How you manage not to see this, is beyond me.

I've never once stated, explicitly or implicitly, that I know everything, and that others know nothing or very little. Thus, I can't be held responsible for such a perspective that is not my own.

you're an authority on all discussions you take part in ...

Honestly, where are you getting these assumptions from?? :confused: I have never said nor so much as thought any such thing.

there just doesn't seem to be any room for real dialogue with you. No room for each learning from the other.

What?!?!? C'mon, this is just down right wrong. I've been dialoguing with people here for months. And I've learned a wealth of knowledge from the other members here, just as much, if not moreso than they've learned from me.

I honestly don't know where you get this impression of me from......

I know what I know. I also realize what I don't know. I am fully cognizant of what and where my limitations are. I think others would benefit from knowing this of themselves as well, but it's not for me to police this for them, any more than it's for them to police this for me.

As far as your answer to my topical question, I did appreciate your response.

However, I think people confuse 2 notions:

My accepting that you gave an answer, is not the same as me accepting the answer that you've given.

You gave your perspective; I disagreed with it. Was your response supposed to somehow signal the end of the discussion? If so, then I did not know that, and I apologize for going against what is apparently the established discussion etiquette.

PEACE

Brother SAMURAI ... i don't mean to be ugly ... but gosh ... it seems in your own mind, that you're always right, you know everything, others know nothing, or very little ... you're an authority on all discussions you take part in ... there just doesn't seem to be any room for real dialogue with you. No room for each learning from the other.

It's a fight or nothing at all.

I don't know if you realize you give this impression, but you do.

:heart:

Destee

I said the same thing to myself

Official G 14: Classified Member
******************************

I said the same thing to myself

Official G 14: Classified Member
******************************


Losing battle bruh
Wouldnt get into this one for real

Is that radio station black owned? How many black owned radio stations or major media outlets are there? That's the problem. "We" don't dictate what the masses see and hear. So blame Clearchannel and other media conglomerates for that, not Lil Jon and 3-6. Besides, those artists were around since 1992 selling out of the trunk and in Ma and Pop stores. They "never" said that they were hip hop, and neither did the fans. Lil Jon consistently says he is the King of CRUNK not hip hop. 3-6 state they started the whole crunk and buck movement. Luke did bootyshake. These artists never personally classified themselves as hip hop. Outside regions just got exposed to this 5-6 years ago under the label of hip hop thru smart marketing and advertising. It was never considered hip hop in the dirty. Keep in mind these artists have been doing this for over a decade easily. They became popular when big companies got involved, thus product had to be marketed a certain way to gain mass appeal

Fair enough.

However, are these artists oblivious to the fact that they are being falsely labeled as Hip-Hop?

I still say they are in the perfect position to refute such claims, especially with the position of influence that they are in currently. They are all on BET every 3rd hour of every 3rd day.

The SOURCE (allegedly a Hip-Hop magazine) has them plastered all over it monthly.

Why are they continuing to ride the coat-tails of Hip-Hop, when they don't need to at this point?


Oh yea, Canibus was heavy in the 90s, but saying he ruled that decade is a stretch.


Oh no, you misunderstood: I don't think he was the best, but certainly in the top 10. You disagree?

Ras Kass was way colder cause his punchlines and verses were charismatic and touched relevant issues. JMT is pretty dope. Stoupe's tracks are insane sometimes. I'll comment on the industry shortly

True indeed to all of this.

Stoupe comes close to the RZA in his track making skills. As ill as Vinnie Paz is, I don't think JMT has been the same, since JUS ALLAH left, and Jus's solo album ALL FATES HAVE CHANGED proves this.

I guess it's a good thing their back together though.

It's also ironic that all the artists we just mentioned above are now all signed to BABY GRANDE. Even Wu-Tang is now signed to Baby Grande......BG seems to be a haven for Underground artists these days....

I smell a renaissance coming.......

PEACE

I believe the reason why they don't refute it is because of the amount of money they have made under the guise of hip hop. My bad for misunderstanding what you meant about Can I Bus. I think he would make my top 10 in the 90s as well. Didn't know Baby Grande had signed the WU as well. That's truly a good look. Now if the RZA can put the energy he's putting into his overseas prospects back into a Wu project, everything would be grand. I hope a renaissance occurs as well Brother Sam.. Especially for the babies' sake.

I believe the reason why they don't refute it is because of the amount of money they have made under the guise of hip hop. My bad for misunderstanding what you meant about Can I Bus. I think he would make my top 10 in the 90s as well. Didn't know Baby Grande had signed the WU as well. That's truly a good look. Now if the RZA can put the energy he's putting into his overseas prospects back into a Wu project, everything would be grand. I hope a renaissance occurs as well Brother Sam.. Especially for the babies' sake.

True indeedy!!

Our babies are the ones that are suffering from all of this menagerie.

Yeah, BG signed most of the WU, both as solo artists, (U-GOD is still freelance as a solo artist though) as well as the entire Clan entity (9 Generals). Several Wu-Tang affiliates have signed over as well, like La The Dark Man, Prodigal Sunn, Dreddy Kruger, Shamz Allah and Killah Priest. More are on the way, from what I understand.

The first project out the gate was the THINK DIFFERENTLY Wu-Tang project. Have you checked that? Straight Ill.

I'm a Shao-Lin supporter till the day I stop breathing......But one of the issues I've always had with the Clan, is that they can't seem to get it together, unless RZA's around.

RZA should be able to do his thing, while the Clan continues to function as a strong entity. Wu-Tang has 12 producers under RZA's discipleship; many of whose style is nearly indistinguishable from RZA's.

They shouldn't have to turn to Swizz Beatz to make tracks for them, when they have ALLAH MATH and 4Th DISCIPLE.

PEACE

WOW....:great:

Just peeped the lineup. I preciate that brother Sam. I will be making my purchase online tonight. I hope Bronze Nazarath did a track or two. This should be pure heat.

I forgot about Mathematics and 4th disciple. They should be able to hold it down.

Peace

WOW....:great:

Just peeped the lineup. I preciate that brother Sam. I will be making my purchase online tonight. I hope Bronze Nazarath did a track or two. This should be pure heat.

I forgot about Mathematics and 4th disciple. They should be able to hold it down.

Peace

Bronze is on 2 tracks of the album, production-wise, and on 1 track as an MC. The album is really slick, because the CD booklet gives a little story of how each track was put together, and why.

Even Boot Camp (which everyone has always considered to be the "sister group" to the Clan) comes through to shine.

Speaking of Boot Camp, you checked out Sean Price's MONKEY BARS?

Soo......we're debating what is hip-hop?


I personally do have a problem with 3-6 winning an award. But, since didn't watch the show, I didn't support it in any way.

Hip-hop is different things to different people. There may be certain types of hip-hop, but one cannot deny someone a classification based off of your own perceptions. All of the crunk ish, and booty music and whatever else its classified as IS hip-hop.


hip-hop - n.
A popular urban youth culture, closely associated with rap music and with the style and fashions of African-American inner-city residents.
Rap music.

adj.
Of or characteristic of hip-hop culture.

n 1: an urban youth culture associated with rap music and the fashions of African-American residents of the inner city 2: genre of African-American music of the 1980s and 1990s in which rhyming lyrics are chanted to a musical accompaniment; several forms of rap have emerged

Soo......we're debating what is hip-hop?

Not necessarily. It just sort of turned into that.


I personally do have a problem with 3-6 winning an award. But, since didn't watch the show, I didn't support it in any way.

So do I.

Hip-hop is different things to different people. There may be certain types of hip-hop, but one cannot deny someone a classification based off of your own perceptions. All of the crunk ish, and booty music and whatever else its classified as IS hip-hop.


hip-hop - n.
A popular urban youth culture, closely associated with rap music and with the style and fashions of African-American inner-city residents.
Rap music.

adj.
Of or characteristic of hip-hop culture.

n 1: an urban youth culture associated with rap music and the fashions of African-American residents of the inner city 2: genre of African-American music of the 1980s and 1990s in which rhyming lyrics are chanted to a musical accompaniment; several forms of rap have emerged

Unfortunately, I was well aware of this. Quite honestly, I wish it were not the case.

All this does is further hurt what Hip-Hop is as a culture.......The past several years have shown a one-sided view of what Hip-Hop is, or what it's supposed to be.

This is only worsened, when this "one side" is getting all the attention, all the awards, while the other side is getting shoved up under the rug, as if it doesn't exsist, or never did.

That's what I have a problem with.

I concur....



Unfortunately, I was well aware of this. Quite honestly, I wish it were not the case.

All this does is further hurt what Hip-Hop is as a culture.......The past several years have shown a one-sided view of what Hip-Hop is, or what it's supposed to be.

This is only worsened, when this "one side" is getting all the attention, all the awards, while the other side is getting shoved up under the rug, as if it doesn't exsist, or never did.

That's what I have a problem with.

WWHHHUUUTTT!!!! (in lil jon's voice) I got Monkey Bars in the deck right now. That joint Khrysis did is the truth.

WWHHHUUUTTT!!!! (in lil jon's voice) I got Monkey Bars in the deck right now. That joint Khrysis did is the truth.

Now see, that's what I'm talking about........This is the Essence of Hip-Hop.

3-6 can keep their little white man's pat on the back. They will NEVER be able to spit on a microphone, the likes of Sean, Khry, and B.D.I.

PEACE

Are you always well-received? And if you're not, does that somehow diminish your character, and who you are as a person?

One being well-received, listened to, etc., doesn't necessarily speak to their character.

It speaks to their ability, or lack thereof, to reach as many as possible. What is the purpose of sharing the information that you do? If it is to be heard, to teach, to share with others, then one must adjust their presentation in a manner that facilitates this. Otherwise, why bother saying anything you say?

No, i'm not always well-received, but if it is my hope to be well-received (to be heard, to teach, etc.), i do what i can to adjust my presentation in order to realize that goal.


Not to be disrespectful in the slightest, but how is it that you've come to know what's "in my own mind"?

If one must think a thing, even subconsciously, before they do it ... i'm led to believe that what you manifest, is what is in your mind.


I've never once stated, explicitly or implicitly, that I know everything, and that others know nothing or very little. Thus, I can't be held responsible for such a perspective that is not my own.

It's not about being responsible for another's perspective, it's about having folk hear you. If it doesn't matter whether you're heard or not, you're just talking to be talking, then no adjustment is needed.


What?!?!? C'mon, this is just down right wrong. I've been dialoguing with people here for months. And I've learned a wealth of knowledge from the other members here, just as much, if not moreso than they've learned from me.

I honestly don't know where you get this impression of me from......

I know what I know. I also realize what I don't know. I am fully cognizant of what and where my limitations are. I think others would benefit from knowing this of themselves as well, but it's not for me to police this for them, any more than it's for them to police this for me.

Again, more evidence of you not being willing to consider that there may be some truth to my observation. You begin immediately to fight, countering all that's been shared with you. Instead of perhaps, maybe thinking, hmmmmm ... could there be something that i'm doing to give this impression? Is it possible that my message is being lost in the presentation? How might i improve in this area (as there is always room for improvement)? But no, you don't usually go there. You rarely leave room for the possibility that you may be wrong. Which makes meaningful, enriching, dialogue virtually impossible.

This impression is based solely on your interactions here, it's repeated itself time and time again.

In situations like this, you lose many opportunities for growth, because you don't really hear / listen. Even though you respond line for line, and word for word. It's kinda like the person that is waiting for the next person to finish speaking, so they can continue proving how right they are. Not really listening to the other person, but formulating their response, as the other person speaks.


However, I think people confuse 2 notions:

My accepting that you gave an answer, is not the same as me accepting the answer that you've given.

You gave your perspective; I disagreed with it. Was your response supposed to somehow signal the end of the discussion? If so, then I did not know that, and I apologize for going against what is apparently the established discussion etiquette.

Brother SAMURAI ... i don't think the key here is whether you are accepting that i gave an answer, or that you're accepting the answer i've given. I think it's that you just don't listen. You're so eager to counter, you don't really hear.

By no means do i want to end the discussion, but i don't usually find it particularly pleasant to dialogue with you. You're so often argumentative and confrontational. It's not a pleasure, so i tend to keep it to a minimum.

I do believe you possess lots of knowledge and wisdom, you just need to master presenting it. Allowing the wisdom to reach its fullest potential by getting into the subconscious of as many as possible. If this is your reason for sharing what you know, then it is your responsibility to do all you can to make sure it reaches its intended target in the best of manners.

:heart:

Destee

I think one of the most disturbing things about this song, and by extension the video, and it's subsequent Acadamy Award...is that it's bad enough for grown ***** black men who seem all to happy to floss the image of a pimp, but our women are "prominately" displayed in the video.

What kinds of messages are we sending to our seeds?

One being well-received, listened to, etc., doesn't necessarily speak to their character.

It speaks to their ability, or lack thereof, to reach as many as possible. What is the purpose of sharing the information that you do? If it is to be heard, to teach, to share with others, then one must adjust their presentation in a manner that facilitates this. Otherwise, why bother saying anything you say?

No, i'm not always well-received, but if it is my hope to be well-received (to be heard, to teach, etc.), i do what i can to adjust my presentation in order to realize that goal.

Fair enough, I can't argue with this, even though I don't totally agree.

I've come to learn that learning from and with others is a totally indepedent phenomenon, from whether or not one is being well-received or not.

This is both anecdotal as well as empirical for me. I learn from everybody, whether I hold them in high-regard or not.

Learning for me, is not based on how I feel, but what I know.

If one must think a thing, even subconsciously, before they do it ... i'm led to believe that what you manifest, is what is in your mind.

I think you misunderstood my question to you.......I was asking how you've come to know, and feel liberated in speaking on what is in my mind.

Especially considering that which you are speaking on, is wholly incorrect.


It's not about being responsible for another's perspective, it's about having folk hear you. If it doesn't matter whether you're heard or not, you're just talking to be talking, then no adjustment is needed.

But that's the thing, those who are choosing to hear me, are hearing me just fine.

Had you not noticed, that this discussion had more or less ended with several parties being in agreement with one another? And that I'm included amongst those parties?

Again, more evidence of you not being willing to consider that there may be some truth to my observation. You begin immediately to fight, countering all that's been shared with you. Instead of perhaps, maybe thinking, hmmmmm ... could there be something that i'm doing to give this impression?

Here's where you continue to misperceive me:

I've thoroughly considered this perspective. I just process information differently than you (and perhaps many other people do). I don't dwell on how I feel about things, instead focusing on what I know about things.

I have not even tried to rebut how you feel about this, because those are your feelings. However, I happen to know something entirely different about it.

Now, please don't misinterpret that as me knowing more than you. That's not what I'm saying in the slightest.

Besides, the same thing could be said of you, that you aren't hearing what is being said to you. I've taken notice that you've done that with me before: not taken what I'd said into consideration.

In the meantime, as you accuse me of not being able to see my own faults, I blatantly laid my fault on the table right before you in another thread recently, and you didn't even bother to respond to that.

What more can I do, to show you that I do indeed perform personal introspection?

Is it possible that my message is being lost in the presentation? How might i improve in this area (as there is always room for improvement)? But no, you don't usually go there. You rarely leave room for the possibility that you may be wrong. Which makes meaningful, enriching, dialogue virtually impossible.

I am truly at a loss here..........Please help me understand something:

How is it that I've found myself in countless conversations on this site, with people that I have a humbling degree of respect for, in which "meaningful, enriching, dialogue" is taking place between myself and these parties on a regular basis, if my entire persona makes it "virtually impossible" to do this?

:confused:

Or, are you meaning to say that I'm making impossible to have this sort of dialogue with you?

Because please understand: in as much as there are folks here who care not to dialogue with me, there are those that I care not to dialogue with.

This impression is based solely on your interactions here, it's repeated itself time and time again.

So what you're telling me, is that you don't see me interacting positively with anyone, at anytime here on this site--this thread included, yes?

In situations like this, you lose many opportunities for growth, because you don't really hear / listen. Even though you respond line for line, and word for word. It's kinda like the person that is waiting for the next person to finish speaking, so they can continue proving how right they are. Not really listening to the other person, but formulating their response, as the other person speaks.

Just so you know, I read every single post that I plan on responding to at least twice, before I respond to it.

I'm sorry that I happen to speed-read, and that I type 70-80 WPM's.

Please trust and know, that I have a running catalog of what each and every one of my faults are. I face them everyday. And I strive to get better from them.

However, it seems that you are asking me to be apologetic for faults that I don't have. I do listen. I do pay attention. I do look at my faults.

That is why I've said that I can't be held responsible for someone else's perception of me, no matter how convinced of that perspective that they are.

Brother SAMURAI ... i don't think the key here is whether you are accepting that i gave an answer, or that you're accepting the answer i've given. I think it's that you just don't listen. You're so eager to counter, you don't really hear.

Please tell me then, how can I prove to you that I do in fact listen?

By no means do i want to end the discussion, but i don't usually find it particularly pleasant to dialogue with you. You're so often argumentative and confrontational. It's not a pleasure, so i tend to keep it to a minimum.

So then, we come to the crux of what this is about: it's not necessarily about how I present myself, but how you receive that presentation, regardless.

I honestly suspect that there is nothing here that I could do, save becoming and whole different person entirely, that would assuade your concerns about me.

I do believe you possess lots of knowledge and wisdom, you just need to master presenting it. Allowing the wisdom to reach its fullest potential by getting into the subconscious of as many as possible.

Upon presenting what you and others deem as "knowledge and wisdom" (I thank you humbly for the compliment) I readily accept that it's only for a select people. Those that it's not for, are obviously not going to recieve it, no matter what I do otherwise.

I'm at peace with that. I'm also very much at peace with all that I am: the good, the bad, and the ugly.


If this is your reason for sharing what you know, then it is your responsibility to do all you can to make sure it reaches its intended target in the best of manners.

I could be wrong, but it really seems like you're severely underestimating me here. Have you any idea of how many people I reach on a daily basis? And sometimes without even trying?

Sometimes I think that I get respect from people that I don't even deserve to have it from.

I told Sister RIADA a while back, about learning to accept the burden that has been placed upon her shoulders.......However, even in telling her such, I fully understood the overwhelming weight it represents.

There are people who are going to love you, and there are those who are going to hate you. There are also people who are going to do both at the same time.

That can be a very scary thing.......But not if you focus strictly on what you're doing, rather than how people perceive what you're doing, and how you're doing it.



Sister Destee, I do apologize..........But only because you find my presence so unpleasant, unbearable, and unfulfilling. Not because of who and what I am.

I'm sure I've typed all of this for naught, as you'll just continue to accuse me of not listening........Something that I feel that you sometimes don't do yourself, especially when it comes to me.

But much love just the same.

PEACE

I think one of the most disturbing things about this song, and by extension the video, and it's subsequent Acadamy Award...is that it's bad enough for grown ***** black men who seem all to happy to floss the image of a pimp, but our women are "prominately" displayed in the video.

What kinds of messages are we sending to our seeds?

True indeed.

Brother SAMURAI ... in an effort to be brief, i'm responding to your questions only (basically):


I was asking how you've come to know, and feel liberated in speaking on what is in my mind. Especially considering that which you are speaking on, is wholly incorrect.

Since you've said i'm wholly incorrect, and i may very well be, we'll just leave it at that.


Had you not noticed, that this discussion had more or less ended with several parties being in agreement with one another? And that I'm included amongst those parties?

Yes, i noticed.


What more can I do, to show you that I do indeed perform personal introspection?

Display more respect, compassion, and patience for those you think know less than you.


How is it that I've found myself in countless conversations on this site, with people that I have a humbling degree of respect for, in which "meaningful, enriching, dialogue" is taking place between myself and these parties on a regular basis, if my entire persona makes it "virtually impossible" to do this? Or, are you meaning to say that I'm making impossible to have this sort of dialogue with you?

I base my opinion solely on your interactions here, with our Membership in general. You've been involved in a few disruptions, and i've already said i intentionally keep my interactions with you to a minimum. This does not mean you have no positive interactions here. I just think that there could be less disruptions, and more positive interactions, if you adjusted just a little.


So what you're telling me, is that you don't see me interacting positively with anyone, at anytime here on this site--this thread included, yes?

No, that's not what i'm telling you.


Please tell me then, how can I prove to you that I do in fact listen?

The proof will be your involvement in less disruptions, and more positive interactions.


I could be wrong, but it really seems like you're severely underestimating me here. Have you any idea of how many people I reach on a daily basis? And sometimes without even trying?

No, i have no idea. I'm speaking only on what happens here.


Sister Destee, I do apologize..........But only because you find my presence so unpleasant, unbearable, and unfulfilling. Not because of who and what I am.

Brother SAMURAI ... bless your heart, i accept your apology and offer my own as well. I am truly sorry that our own interactions aren't more positive, and i accept (and will try to adjust) my contribution to this. I do not find your presence unpleasant, unbearable, or unfulfilling. I never said those things. I believe you have much to offer, that is being lost on many (myself included), based solely on your presentation. If you're at peace with that, i will be too.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

IN THE EARLY NINETIES RAP MUSIC WAS HIT WITH GANGSTERISM. THE GANGSTER ISH GOT BIG IN THE MID NINETIES, BY THE LATE NINETIES IT HAD TAKEN OVER THE GAME, AS MORE WHITE MONEY MEANING MILLIONS WAS INVOLVED. THIS IS THE AFTER EFFECTS, WHITE MEDIA HAS TAKEN CONTROL OF HIP HOP. WHITE KIDS LOVE BAFOON RAP, THEY BUY MOST OF IT. THE REASON WHY BECAUSE TRUE HIP HOP TALKS ABOUT THINGS THAT WHITE PEOPLE HATE, LIKE THE TRUTH OF THEIR EXISTANCE AND DEEDS. THIS IS NO SUPRISE, MOST MUSIC AWARD SHOWS , MOST MAJOR LABELS PROMOTE THIS TYPE OF RAP NOW, THIS IS THE EFFECTS OF MONEY AND IGNORANCE EMCEES IN THE NINETIES ESPECIALLY FROM 1992-1995 RAPPED ABOUT NOW WE SEE WHY.

Truth be told, I am very uneasy with offering a response to you, because not only am I unsure as to how it will be received, but also what the result its receipt would garner. But just the same:

Brother SAMURAI ... in an effort to be brief, i'm responding to your questions only (basically):

Since you've said i'm wholly incorrect, and i may very well be, we'll just leave it at that.

Fair enough.


Yes, i noticed.

OK, but it doesn't seem like you do. Whenever you do decide to talk to me, or address me, it's to reprimand or scold me about something you think I've done wrong.

You don't ever seem to address me about anything else.

Display more respect, compassion, and patience for those you think know less than you.

All of these things are based on reciprocity. If you take a close examination, you'll notice that there are those here, who I'm extremely humbled in the presence of.

Our Brother Elder, Sek, Info, Pan, Aqil, NN Queen, River, and several others. I feel downright inferior in the presense of these people. When they speak, it's with the comfort of knowing that what they know will carry the day.......And usually, it always does.

Usually, my responses to them, are reduced to "true indeed", "I agree", "you are so right", or something to the effect. Not only because I do agree, but because their words leave me in awe.

In the utmost sincerity, I can only hope that when I grow up, I'll turn into only a portion of the God/desses that these beautiful kings and queens are.

The Brother Elder himself, reminds me so much of my own father (looks alot like him too), as much as he reminds me of myself. He was one of the (many) people that advised me to return, after you banned me. He is one of the few that silence me, and kicks me in the head, imploring me to fly right, when I'm straying from my usual demeanor.

How could I possibly not be humbled by those like him?

When I was younger, and even now, I operated under the notion that one who obviously knows less, does not challenge one who obviously knows more. Believe it or not, there are those who call me "elder".....But for as many who call me elder, there are just as many, and more, whom I defer the same title, and humbly so.

Respect is given, as respect is granted.

I base my opinion solely on your interactions here, with our Membership in general. You've been involved in a few disruptions, and i've already said i intentionally keep my interactions with you to a minimum.

Yes, that's true, but you say this as if I'm guilty of a crime that no one else here is guilty of. There are numerous threads on here, in which people are attacking each other, calling names, threatening to leave the site, etc.

Ironically, these are threads that my name does not even appear once within. How do you reconcile this?

Are you attempting to make an example out of me?

Even if I am the worst, surely I represent the best of the worst. You claim that I'm confrontaional........Never have I used foul language on your site. Never have I called someone an insulting name. Never have I threatened someone's personal safety. Never have I harrassed anyone, put them down, or anything of the sort.

Even though, each of these things has happened to me here, on repeated occasions.

I am not the cause of these "disruptions" that you speak of, even if I've been involved in some of them.

Speaking of which:

This does not mean you have no positive interactions here. I just think that there could be less disruptions, and more positive interactions, if you adjusted just a little.

I have just returned from a hiatus from this site (and many others), looking after my personal endeavors. Yet, when I returned, I instantly saw some of the same "disruptions" that had been going on since before I'd left.

A whole 3-4 months, with no SAMURAI36, yet the disruptions persist. How do you explain this?

SAMURAI36 is not the source of your problem, even if he sometimes contributes to it.

To lay all of this on my shoulders is unfair to say the least.


No, that's not what i'm telling you.

But that's also never what you're telling me. You said yourself, that you don't like to interact with me, because you don't find such interactions to be pleasant. Yet, when you do interact with me, you're telling all the things that is wrong with me. And only those things, and little to nothing else.

The proof will be your involvement in less disruptions, and more positive interactions.

Isn't this something that you should be saying to everyone here, and not just me?


No, i have no idea. I'm speaking only on what happens here.

So am I. It's become increasingly apparent, that you are only seeing what you choose to, as it pertains to me.

I'm willing to accept my batting average. The Brother Elder (and countless others) has said that I contribute far more good than ill to this site. I asked you before, if you disagreed, and you did not return a response.

Everybody could always do more. But that doesn't discount what they already do.

Brother SAMURAI ... bless your heart, i accept your apology and offer my own as well. I am truly sorry that our own interactions aren't more positive, and i accept (and will try to adjust) my contribution to this.

Fair enough.

I do not find your presence unpleasant, unbearable, or unfulfilling. I never said those things.

Actually, yes you did. Your precise statement was:

By no means do i want to end the discussion, but i don't usually find it particularly pleasant to dialogue with you.

My presense is only manifested via dialogue. You can't see my face, hear my voice, or touch my arm as we're talking. Therefore, all you have of me, is the words that flash across your screen.

And that, as you have previously stated, as not been pleasant for you.

I believe you have much to offer, that is being lost on many (myself included), based solely on your presentation. If you're at peace with that, i will be too.

Indeed I am, as I realize from the very start, that what I have to offer is not for everybody, nor do I attempt to present it as such. What I have reaches a great many people, both on here, and elsewhere.

Besides, I have always been taught that if I can reach only one person in the entire span of my life, then my mission is done, and I can rest eternally.

With that, I am truly at......


PEACE

I am not trying to jump into any battles or anything, but I think Samurai is more of a teacher than a poster. I've had "debates" (If you want to call it that) with him, and learned alot. After having discussions with him, I learn from him one powerful thing: "Either I could sit here and talk about how he (Brother Sam) thinks he knows everything (which Akil describes as nothing but the Devil), or I could start researching for myself, intellectualizing, contemplating, thoroughly investigating what I know, and bring my "A" game to his "A" game."

Stop bringing "C" game information! I will admit that I don't think he knows everything - as a matter of fact, I read posts that expose me to me, BEFORE I read posts that "comment" me. What that means is I read the posts that say "Cedric, you need to pick up a book and read" BEFORE I read posts that say "Cedric, you are a wonderful person." Nothing wrong with any of them, because one makes me stronger, the other tells me that I am strong, and I need to keep on going. I personally am not afraid of the truth, because learning it now (when I am younger) makes it all the more easier when I get older. People may think it's funny, but I am striving to know who I am.

Back to the topic.

May I ask: What have these "Hip-Hop" artists done to make us a better people? We bash Tavis Smiley and them for trying to establish a covenant for a better community, but then we praise "Crap Music" for telling us what the world thinks of us? There has got to be something wrong with that.

Where is the music that tells me who I am, where I come from, who we are, respect my brothers and sisters, seek myself for the true me, know myself before others? In my opinion, if I cannot hear that, I have no interest; I will just listen to the instrumental(s) for free!

I would like someone to name one person who found their true selves watching BET all day long, listening to Crap music, hanging out in the clubs all night, and being 'spoon-fed' by "Hip-Hop" radio?

Like Samurai said, you do what you do, but unto whom much is given, much is required. Don't think you will represent a culture your way, when the people you represent object to it. When you go to a music concert, you have more than just 'radioheads' and TV, I mean BET and MTV slaves in the crowd. I oppose Crap music as much as many people defend Crap Music, and I know why I am opposing it. People, music is nothing but sending messages to beats and sounds. If there was no sound or beats to go along with what some of these "rappers" talk about today, it would be nonsense, and nobody would want to hear it. After knowing who is behind handing down the OSCAR award, I would not want to receive it! I don't care what they think of me. I do not do what I do for them.

Anyway, I am finished with saying what I needed to say. I am now ready to be exposed to me through this thread.

CD

I agree with you Destee. Samurai over-intellectualizes many times. A point squashed into intellectual oblivion, loses its potency. I also agree that he seems to be more than moderately intelligent. We all can learn a lot from him. Just try to disregard the intellectual hubris. I do agree with him completely regarding his opinion about the way those rappers desecrated our struggle with their ignorance.

I remember watching Ossie Davis and Ruby Dee on PBS one time as they discussed how Black performers in the 20's, 30's, 40's, refused to take roles that humiliated us. I listen to some of the young people on this message board talk about the Oscar event like it was no big deal. Thats the scariest part of it. Young sisters and brothers so sick they can't even tell when they being spit on. White folks are always willing to put a ignorant niKKa on TV to justify the racial stereotypes that WE are SUPPOSED to be fighting against. I been hearing this same stupid **** from the same stupid rappers for too long, so let me bust this **** out. Everytime somebody ask one of these ignorant fools why do you have such negative content in your music, why do you paint such a horrible picture of Black youth and Black life, the fools always say, " I'm just taliking about the way things are in MY neighborhood. I'm just representin things that go on in the hood every day." BULLSHYT!!!! I been in the hood for 46 years and I aint never seen a ghetto where there were'nt plenty of good people struggling against the maddness and coming out responsible and educated. I was telling my father one day about my plan to put my daughter in a gifted school and he said, "Why you doin' that? If she's smart she'll be smart in any school". He said that because my father grew up on the southside of Chicago dirt poor. He went to a school full of kids who were dirt poor. And he saw that many of those kids did well in life. So when I hear these stupid *** rappers, trying to tell me about their music representin life as they see it, I know that they just seeing what they want to see. If you want to see insanity, you will, especially if you know that rapping about that **** will get you paid. If I know 50 mothers in the projects who made sure that their kids got educated and grew up right, are these ignorant fools gonna rap about it?? You know the answer to that. They support negative sterotypes, and disrespect our history and our culture for a dollar. The white man's dollar. When stupid *** white people publicly humiliate themselves, it is not perceived as a race defining event. But for US, it is. We can't do what white folks do. That aint fair, but you want me to keep it real right?? That's real. Those fools were put on TV to humiliate us. And some a ya'll didn't get it??? You can't see that??

And Brother Cedric your comments were right on. Thanks. Man somebody gotta see it.


malik

I agree with you Destee. Samurai over-intellectualizes many times. A point squashed into intellectual oblivion, loses its potency. I also agree that he seems to be more than moderately intelligent. We all can learn a lot from him. Just try to disregard the intellectual hubris. I do agree with him completely regarding his opinion about the way those rappers desecrated our struggle with their ignorance.

I remember watching Ossie Davis and Ruby Dee on PBS one time as they discussed how Black performers in the 20's, 30's, 40's, refused to take roles that humiliated us. I listen to some of the young people on this message board talk about the Oscar event like it was no big deal. Thats the scariest part of it. Young sisters and brothers so sick they can't even tell when they being spit on. White folks are always willing to put a ignorant niKKa on TV to justify the racial stereotypes that WE are SUPPOSED to be fighting against. I been hearing this same stupid **** from the same stupid rappers for too long, so let me bust this **** out. Everytime somebody ask one of these ignorant fools why do you have such negative content in your music, why do you paint such a horrible picture of Black youth and Black life, the fools always say, " I'm just taliking about the way things are in MY neighborhood. I'm just representin things that go on in the hood every day." BULLSHYT!!!! I been in the hood for 46 years and I aint never seen a ghetto where there were'nt plenty of good people struggling against the maddness and coming out responsible and educated. I was telling my father one day about my plan to put my daughter in a gifted school and he said, "Why you doin' that? If she's smart she'll be smart in any school". He said that because my father grew up on the southside of Chicago dirt poor. He went to a school full of kids who were dirt poor. And he saw that many of those kids did well in life. So when I hear these stupid *** rappers, trying to tell me about their music representin life as they see it, I know that they just seeing what they want to see. If you want to see insanity, you will, especially if you know that rapping about that **** will get you paid. If I know 50 mothers in the projects who made sure that their kids got educated and grew up right, are these ignorant fools gonna rap about it?? You know the answer to that. They support negative sterotypes, and disrespect our history and our culture for a dollar. The white man's dollar. When stupid *** white people publicly humiliate themselves, it is not perceived as a race defining event. But for US, it is. We can't do what white folks do. That aint fair, but you want me to keep it real right?? That's real. Those fools were put on TV to humiliate us. And some a ya'll didn't get it??? You can't see that??

And Brother Cedric your comments were right on. Thanks. Man somebody gotta see it.


malik

That's what I am saying. Would you rather him (Brother Sam) stoop down to the level of most on this site, and pretend that he knows little to nothing. No disrespect, but when the TRUTH comes to you, it does not come in the way you want it to come. Most people hate it, and claim that it is a lie by the time the truth reaches them. Next thing you know, they deal with them, and realize that it was the truth when they claimed it was a lie, just like it is the truth when they realize it later. It does not change.

When people ask God how He can bless them, He does not give you anything easy - He gives you something that will have you wishing you never asked Him how How could bless you. It is not until later when you realize that God really spoke to you, and you are convinced.

That being said, what Samurai and others on this site say might offend you today, but later you will be glad that they said it. This is how I learn, except I am no longer afraid to be exposed to what I need to know.

I wonder where seeking the TRUTH can be found in modern-day "Hip-Hop" music.

CD

" I'm just taliking about the way things are in MY neighborhood. I'm just representin things that go on in the hood every day." BULLSHYT!!!! I been in the hood for 46 years and I aint never seen a ghetto where there were'nt plenty of good people struggling against the maddness and coming out responsible and educated. I was telling my father one day about my plan to put my daughter in a gifted school and he said, "Why you doin' that? If she's smart she'll be smart in any school". He said that because my father grew up on the southside of Chicago dirt poor. He went to a school full of kids who were dirt poor. And he saw that many of those kids did well in life. So when I hear these stupid *** rappers, trying to tell me about their music representin life as they see it, I know that they just seeing what they want to see. If you want to see insanity, you will, especially if you know that rapping about that **** will get you paid. If I know 50 mothers in the projects who made sure that their kids got educated and grew up right, are these ignorant fools gonna rap about it?? You know the answer to that. They support negative sterotypes, and disrespect our history and our culture for a dollar. The white man's dollar. When stupid *** white people publicly humiliate themselves, it is not perceived as a race defining event. But for US, it is. We can't do what white folks do. That aint fair, but you want me to keep it real right?? That's real. Those fools were put on TV to humiliate us. And some a ya'll didn't get it??? You can't see that??
True indeed,there are many people in impovershed areas that are trying to make it out in a positive way than those that are not.As well as the rap group being put on TV to make us look dumb.

Forget about Hip Hop. What about the two prominant movies playing. Big Momas House and the so called Family Reunion. What's up with black men portraying women characters on the big screen. How many of you remember Flip Wilson playing Geraldine on TV?

Forget about Hip Hop. What about the two prominant movies playing. Big Momas House and the so called Family Reunion. What's up with black men portraying women characters on the big screen. How many of you remember Flip Wilson playing Geraldine on TV?

Oh believe me, I don't take part in that either. Only people who love Hollywood take part in that stuff.

CD

I am not trying to jump into any battles or anything, but I think Samurai is more of a teacher than a poster. I've had "debates" (If you want to call it that) with him, and learned alot. After having discussions with him, I learn from him one powerful thing: "Either I could sit here and talk about how he (Brother Sam) thinks he knows everything (which Akil describes as nothing but the Devil), or I could start researching for myself, intellectualizing, contemplating, thoroughly investigating what I know, and bring my "A" game to his "A" game."

Stop bringing "C" game information! I will admit that I don't think he knows everything - as a matter of fact, I read posts that expose me to me, BEFORE I read posts that "comment" me. What that means is I read the posts that say "Cedric, you need to pick up a book and read" BEFORE I read posts that say "Cedric, you are a wonderful person." Nothing wrong with any of them, because one makes me stronger, the other tells me that I am strong, and I need to keep on going. I personally am not afraid of the truth, because learning it now (when I am younger) makes it all the more easier when I get older. People may think it's funny, but I am striving to know who I am.

Back to the topic.

May I ask: What have these "Hip-Hop" artists done to make us a better people? We bash Tavis Smiley and them for trying to establish a covenant for a better community, but then we praise "Crap Music" for telling us what the world thinks of us? There has got to be something wrong with that.

Where is the music that tells me who I am, where I come from, who we are, respect my brothers and sisters, seek myself for the true me, know myself before others? In my opinion, if I cannot hear that, I have no interest; I will just listen to the instrumental(s) for free!

I would like someone to name one person who found their true selves watching BET all day long, listening to Crap music, hanging out in the clubs all night, and being 'spoon-fed' by "Hip-Hop" radio?

Like Samurai said, you do what you do, but unto whom much is given, much is required. Don't think you will represent a culture your way, when the people you represent object to it. When you go to a music concert, you have more than just 'radioheads' and TV, I mean BET and MTV slaves in the crowd. I oppose Crap music as much as many people defend Crap Music, and I know why I am opposing it. People, music is nothing but sending messages to beats and sounds. If there was no sound or beats to go along with what some of these "rappers" talk about today, it would be nonsense, and nobody would want to hear it. After knowing who is behind handing down the OSCAR award, I would not want to receive it! I don't care what they think of me. I do not do what I do for them.

Anyway, I am finished with saying what I needed to say. I am now ready to be exposed to me through this thread.

CD

Wow CD........I have to sincerely say, that you've humbled me in the greatest of ways....You are truly one of the few here, who accurately sees me precisely as I see myself.

And for that, I sincerely thank you.

However, on to an "opposing" perspective:

I agree with you Destee. Samurai over-intellectualizes many times.

I'm very tempted to "LOL" @ this, but I would much rather give you the opportunity to defend and prove your perspective about me here, by giving examples of it.

In the meantime, it is my perspective that something can only be "over-intellectualized", only in the eyes of the "un-intellectual".

A true intellectual (or, one who strives to be such) would never see something as being "over-intellectualized". Either it is of intellect, or it is not.

There is a saying amongst my Jamaican people:

"Cockroach don' have none business ina no Chicken yard".

Sometimes, when I go to amusement parks, and I'm standing in line waiting to ride the rollercoaster, I see signs to the effect of "if you are not 'this tall', then you're too small to ride this ride".

What both these statements mean to me, in accordance with the discussion at hand, is that you consider something to be "over-intellectual", then you are most likely not an intellectual to begin with, and perhaps should not participate in "intellectualized" discussions.

Also, I find that people who are always telling others that they think they "know everything", are precisely the people who really don't know anything.

That, effectually, is not my concern, but theirs.

A point squashed into intellectual oblivion, loses its potency.

With all respect due, is this your own attempt at "over-intellectualization"?

I also agree that he seems to be more than moderately intelligent. We all can learn a lot from him.

Thank you for the compliment. However, it flies in the face of:

Just try to disregard the intellectual hubris.

So, "learn from SAM, but don't really learn from him......" Is this your logic?

I share information the way it was shared with me. Obviously, I am living testimony that intellect (or, from your perspective, "over-intellect") can be extremely effective, not only for a black person, but also for a black person reaching other Black people.

As I have said before, if I am not reaching you, then what I "have to offer" does not concern you.

I do agree with him completely regarding his opinion about the way those rappers desecrated our struggle with their ignorance.

Again, my thanks, but I'm still a bit at a loss, as to why you would make such a fuss about my methods, if only to "completely agree" with my conclusion....... :confused:

Is the destination not of more import than the trajectory?

I honestly feel as though we as a people are cursed with focusing on the right things at the wrong time, and/or the wrong things at the right time.

But no matter; we're all entitled to think how we wilt.

PEACE

None of the messages in this thread discussion have been lost on me. This is an excellent thread and the discussion has been extremely provocative. Brothers Cedric, Malik and Samurai...and others have contributed very powerful messages that I wish could be captured and sent straight to the sources contributing to this dilemma--Black folk in the media that will do anything without regard for the impact it might have on an already disenfranchised community. Someone once told me how he learned to separate the message from the BS...."style versus substance." Which is most important to us here? I choose substance.

Thanks for the excellent read, brothers! My .02 cents worth....

Queenie :heart:

None of the messages in this thread discussion have been lost on me. This is an excellent thread and the discussion has been extremely provocative. Brothers Cedric, Malik and Samurai...and others have contributed very powerful messages that I wish could be captured and sent straight to the sources contributing to this dilemma--Black folk in the media that will do anything without regard for the impact it might have on an already disenfranchised community. Someone once told me how he learned to separate the message from the BS...."style versus substance." Which is most important to us here? I choose substance.

Thanks for the excellent read, brothers! My .02 cents worth....

Queenie :heart:

..............And Sistah Queenie, your .2 are very valuable in my eyes!

Let me tell you that as a young person, these are things that I experienced from my peers, as they relate to Crap music:

YOU HAVE TO WEAR BAGGY CLOTHING
YOU HAVE TO TALK SLANG
YOU HAVE TO GET "GIRLS"
YOU HAVE TO SWEAR AND HAVE POWER AND CONTROL OVER ELDERS AND AUTHORITY
IF YOU LISTENED TO R&B, YOU WERE FRUITY
IF YOU LISTENED TO CRAP, YOU WERE ALL THAT AND A BAG OF CHIPS
IF YOU LISTENED TO ANYTHING BESIDES CRAP MUSIC, YOU WERE GAY, OR YOU WERE WHITE

All of this comes from where? From who?, Who supports it? Who supports "I'll f*** your B****?" who signs off on that to be released into stores? Who sells it?

I can remember when I lived my wildest years at ages 12-14. When I was 13 (and suspended from school at that), I went to Record Town, because I was so desperate to get the DMX FLESH OF MY FLESH, BLOOD OF MY BLOOD Cassette. The people at the store told me that I could not buy it (even though I had the money), because I was not old enough. From there, I went to find some older brothas (thinking that they liked Crap music) around the mall who would buy it for me. They looked at me as if I was crazy! WHAT HAPPENED TO THESE TYPES OF PEOPLE? I wish people like this were alive today. You actually have brothas SELLING these CDs to 10-13 year-olds in our communities. Yes, the people who are supposed to set the example for us, selling us crap! Because they were sold that crap!

So anyway, I finally went to the corner Discount Store, where the guy sold it to me for $5. When I brought it home, my mother went crazy when I played the tape! In that, she was also saying, "Do you understand what he is talking about? What do you get out of that nonsense?" I had to sit there like a dummy, thinking the way a slave thinks when he loves music that destroys him. Eventually I learned, and i'm glad I did.

I said that to say I was not even allowed to buy that mess in the first place. Now all of a sudden there is nothing wrong with it. When we meet the generation of youth who begin to bring CD players to Elementary school, swearing and sodomizing the instructors, we will see how good crap music really is to us.

I don't think many people paid attention to Samurai when he said:


Does anyone here actually know the appropriate definition of what a "Pimp" is?

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/pimp.html

Last I checked, it's nothing positive.

And until that definition somehow miraculously changes, then no, I'm not going lift up the efforts of someone who venerates such a term.

That to me, is no different than making a song that says "Being a ******* ain't easy".


When children are using filthy words without knowing the meaning, and insulting each other in the process, we have a major problem. I personally believe, as a young person, that anything insulting me, my mother, my father, my brothers, my sistahs, and so on, shall be burned alive. The dis- ing has to stop!

All of you who are for that "pimp these ho's" type music; I don't know what to say to you. All I know is you reap what you sow, and most "pimps" get "pimped" in the end.

CD

Southern Rappers get more ignorant and embarrassing every year. Unfortunately this ignorant garbage is selling so some northern rappers are selling out and releasing music that is just as ignorant. Hip hop is no more than modern day "step n fetchit" it's a shame. Unless black people take on the rap industry, it will only get worse, unfortunately black groups (NAACP etc) sit back and let the rap industry run wild and uncontrolled. White people don't let this happen if they feel something is a threat to them as a group.

Southern Rappers get more ignorant and embarrassing every year. Unfortunately this ignorant garbage is selling so some northern rappers are selling out and releasing music that is just as ignorant. Hip hop is no more than modern day "step n fetchit" it's a shame. Unless black people take on the rap industry, it will only get worse, unfortunately black groups (NAACP etc) sit back and let the rap industry run wild and uncontrolled. White people don't let this happen if they feel something is a threat to them as a group.

My original question and thought...

Southern Rappers get more ignorant and embarrassing every year. Unfortunately this ignorant garbage is selling so some northern rappers are selling out and releasing music that is just as ignorant. Hip hop is no more than modern day "step n fetchit" it's a shame. Unless black people take on the rap industry, it will only get worse, unfortunately black groups (NAACP etc) sit back and let the rap industry run wild and uncontrolled. White people don't let this happen if they feel something is a threat to them as a group.

True indeed.

it is entertainment. it may not be my cup of tea. it may not be your cup of tea; however, they have freedom of expression and speech just like any and everyone else.
i mean some of you all act like this demoralizing ***** mentality just started in recent years. hello?!? history repeats itself. the way music is perceived by each previous generation is the same; rock and roll was condemned for its filth... so on and so forth. the same ideas and ideals have existed in certain enclaves for YEARS.... basically, all that i have seen here is bashing; no one is offering up a solution.

hint.. hint... complaining about an issue will only get you no where...

imo... it's based on a generation trying to find themselves and trying to find their center as a whole. right now all the is about is money. the rap culture, notice i did not say hip hop, is extremely marketable right now. it's all about money. now maybe some of these people have been hoodwinked and bamboozled; however that is not my place to say. it is not my place to sit and pass judgement on them for that. it is what it is....

i'm trying to start small and show my children and the children around me to do more to be more....

BY THE WAY.... WHO RAISED THIS LOST GENERATION.... WE HAVE FAILED OURSELVES BUT OUR ELDERS FAILED US AS WELL.....

just my .02 cents

it is entertainment. it may not be my cup of tea. it may not be your cup of tea; however, they have freedom of expression and speech just like any and everyone else.
i mean some of you all act like this demoralizing ***** mentality just started in recent years. hello?!? history repeats itself. the way music is perceived by each previous generation is the same; rock and roll was condemned for its filth... so on and so forth. the same ideas and ideals have existed in certain enclaves for YEARS.... basically, all that i have seen here is bashing; no one is offering up a solution.

hint.. hint... complaining about an issue will only get you no where...

imo... it's based on a generation trying to find themselves and trying to find their center as a whole. right now all the is about is money. the rap culture, notice i did not say hip hop, is extremely marketable right now. it's all about money. now maybe some of these people have been hoodwinked and bamboozled; however that is not my place to say. it is not my place to sit and pass judgement on them for that. it is what it is....

i'm trying to start small and show my children and the children around me to do more to be more....

BY THE WAY.... WHO RAISED THIS LOST GENERATION.... WE HAVE FAILED OURSELVES BUT OUR ELDERS FAILED US AS WELL.....

just my .02 cents
I’m not so sure the generation of elders, failed anyone…perhaps single parent households bought into the concept…how about for once men who abandon their children, women who pierce their son’s ears and allow each other to call the other “b****” share a little bit of responsibility…without it, we shall continue down this dark road…

I’m not so sure the generation of elders, failed anyone…perhaps single parent households bought into the concept…how about for once men who abandon their children, women who pierce their son’s ears and allow each other to call the other “b****” share a little bit of responsibility…without it, we shall continue down this dark road…


mmmhh... i said we have failed ourselves... i am aware that some of you had very valid points and then others jump off the deep end (like they do in every thread). i was merely pointing out that there was a lot of finger pointing which will not get us anywhere... like i said... we have failed ourselves.... we being me included... but that's that and it is what it is.... enjoy your day....

mmmhh... i said we have failed ourselves... i am aware that some of you had very valid points and then others jump off the deep end (like they do in every thread). i was merely pointing out that there was a lot of finger pointing which will not get us anywhere... like i said... we have failed ourselves.... we being me included... but that's that and it is what it is.... enjoy your day....

apologies in order...I concur...

Southern Rappers get more ignorant and embarrassing every year. Unfortunately this ignorant garbage is selling so some northern rappers are selling out and releasing music that is just as ignorant. Hip hop is no more than modern day "step n fetchit" it's a shame. Unless black people take on the rap industry, it will only get worse, unfortunately black groups (NAACP etc) sit back and let the rap industry run wild and uncontrolled. White people don't let this happen if they feel something is a threat to them as a group.


Yall memory must be short.......yall must have never seen Triple 6 or heard their stuff it's been the same since their inception, just like our music......the lyrical content hasn't changed only the names of the artists and production. Southern artists what about Kool G. Rap, Wu-Tang, Mobb Deep, MOP,Bumpy Knuckles them cats was talking about the same stuff back then so what's the difference? We've talked about the same stuff since back in the days of the blues.......Yall cats up North talk about the same stuff we do.....so don't say how we become more and more ignorant with Southern music when it's the same thing all over.........anyway why should all music be positive or just catering to a certain mindframe.....if you don't like it don't listen, you dont' want your kids to hear it don't let em if they do hear it then I hope you have an open line of communication with your kids so you can explain the lyrics and what is meant and how that's not the way in life to go........
There are a lot of things in the so called positive hip hop that to me sounds completely crazy ............the problem to me with some of the positive stuff coming from up north aside from some of the conspiracy theories and such is that the beats and hooks they use just arent' hot.......because the artists are maybe more focused on what they're saying I don't know but some of them beats and such they use to me just plain suck.........the music you hear coming out of the South now was born in the clubs and strip clubs of the South it's made to get you going to get the party started just like the Hyphy stuff coming out of the Baylisten to the beat of any Southern song you hear on the radio it's music to party to and that's why folk want to hear it........the thing is it's been pretty much the same for a long time the thing is yall are just now hearing it .............
So if yall Conscious Brothers up North don't like it that's cool I don't like much that comes down from up there I'm not going to bash it though and say that I think time spent on conspiracy theories is time wasted I just don't listen to it and don't buy it..... it's Simple



MississippiRed

Southern Rappers get more ignorant and embarrassing every year.

The broad (negative) generalizations of my people ... by my people ... never ceases to amaze me.

I'm in the South and i don't even know all Southern Rappers ... but BIG UP to 'em anyway! :toast:

Jeeeeez!

:heart:

Destee

Yall memory must be short.......yall must have never seen Triple 6 or heard their stuff it's been the same since their inception, just like our music......the lyrical content hasn't changed only the names of the artists and production. Southern artists what about Kool G. Rap, Wu-Tang, Mobb Deep, MOP,Bumpy Knuckles them cats was talking about the same stuff back then so what's the difference?


The difference being, that for every "negative" lyric from most of the groups you just mention, there are 3 or 4 positive ones from them.

With the exception of Goodie Mobb, I have yet to hear a Southern Rapper speak on the things that RZA, Killah Priest, Lord Buddha Monk, and other Wu-Tang MC's speak on.

I could be wrong though; you are apparently more fluent in Southern Rap than I admittedly I am.


We've talked about the same stuff since back in the days of the blues.......Yall cats up North talk about the same stuff we do.....so don't say how we become more and more ignorant with Southern music when it's the same thing all over.........

Again, the difference being that there is a wider spectrum of topics being discussed with Northern Hip-Hop. Northern Hip-Hop reflects the diversity of the Northern lifestyle.

anyway why should all music be positive or just catering to a certain mindframe.....if you don't like it don't listen, you dont' want your kids to hear it don't let em if they do hear it

Do you really think it's that simple? What you are perscribing here, is tanamount to locking your children up in the basement, never letting them see the light of day..

The moment they go to school, talk to other kids who do listen to this, then the exposure spreads like virus.

then I hope you have an open line of communication with your kids so you can explain the lyrics and what is meant and how that's not the way in life to go........

I personally don't have kids, but I would definitely do this if I did.

There are a lot of things in the so called positive hip hop that to me sounds completely crazy ............the problem to me with some of the positive stuff coming from up north aside from some of the conspiracy theories and such is that the beats and hooks they use just arent' hot.......because the artists are maybe more focused on what they're saying I don't know but some of them beats and such they use to me just plain suck

It's cool that you feel that way. Out of curiosity though, would you mind giving some examples of the artists that you're refering to?

.........the music you hear coming out of the South now was born in the clubs and strip clubs of the South it's made to get you going to get the party started just like the Hyphy stuff coming out of the Baylisten to the beat of any Southern song you hear on the radio it's music to party to and that's why folk want to hear it........the thing is it's been pretty much the same for a long time the thing is yall are just now hearing it .............

What about those of us who want to hear something more "serious"? With Break-beats and such? Is there nothing within Southern Rap that offers this? I personally don't listen to music to "party", and I don't go to clubs at all.

What is there for someone like me?

So if yall Conscious Brothers up North don't like it that's cool I don't like much that comes down from up there I'm not going to bash it though and say that I think time spent on conspiracy theories is time wasted I just don't listen to it and don't buy it..... it's Simple

That's peace. But the main thing, is that there is little to no variety coming from the South. That's all that is getting played down here.

As you and Brother Isaiah pointed out, music is not homogenous to any one particular region.......There are/were some Southern cats that came up to help influence Northern Hip-Hop, right?

So why isn't the same reversed influence being reflected down in the South?

PEACE

The difference being, that for every "negative" lyric from most of the groups you just mention, there are 3 or 4 positive ones from them.

With the exception of Goodie Mobb, I have yet to hear a Southern Rapper speak on the things that RZA, Killah Priest, Lord Buddha Monk, and other Wu-Tang MC's speak on.

I could be wrong though; you are apparently more fluent in Southern Rap than I admittedly I am.




I think you have a point because I believe your music in part represents your environment and a lot of these places the Southern music comes out of aren't as diverse as a NY ,LA or the BAY Area so you hear that in the music because even some of the larger cities in the South have a small town feel and experience.......there have been a few Goodie Mobb, WitchDoctor,Kamakazee, but there are messages imbedded in a lot of Southern artists music it's just at times hard for folks not from the South to hear because of words we use or how we talk....Scarface is a good example , Outcast, David Banner just to take a few.




[/quote=SAMURAI36]Again, the difference being that there is a wider spectrum of topics being discussed with Northern Hip-Hop. Northern Hip-Hop reflects the diversity of the Northern lifestyle.[/quote]




Point taken ,,,,can't argue with that



[/quote=SAMURAI36]Do you really think it's that simple? What you are perscribing here, is tanamount to locking your children up in the basement, never letting them see the light of day..

The moment they go to school, talk to other kids who do listen to this, then the exposure spreads like virus.[/quote]




Not locking them in even though some parents do that.......but if something in my mind is so bad that I think it can actually harm my child then they can't see or hear it until I feel they can understand the explanation ...if that makes sense..





[/quote=SAMURAI36]I personally don't have kids, but I would definitely do this if I did.[/quote]



Yeah bruh I have 3 and let me give you a little advice when you do have kids make sure they can come to you and talk about anything always .......
it's amazing how much stuff you can guide them clear of just with a simple explanation and piece of hard earned wisdom.


[/quote=SAMURAI36]It's cool that you feel that way. Out of curiosity though, would you mind giving some examples of the artists that you're refering to?[/quote]



I honestly don't like WU.....some of the tracks they've put down in past years have been hot but not a lot ( in my opinion only)....even some of the stuff BDP, and Public Enemy put out wasn't hot beat wise but it was cold because of what they were saying.......I'm showing my age because I haven't kept up with music from up there for quite a while.....Poor Righteous Teachers some hot most not......but because of what they were saying I would at times listen........Living in different places gives you a different "ear" for what types of beat you like and cats I knew from NY and Philly loved some of them dudes because of the beats not even knowing what they were saying and I was just the opposite.....



[/quote=SAMURAI36]What about those of us who want to hear something more "serious"? With Break-beats and such? Is there nothing within Southern Rap that offers this? I personally don't listen to music to "party", and I don't go to clubs at all.

What is there for someone like me?[/quote]



To be completely honest bruh there's probably not much from the South like that if anything....and that's being completely real about it.......we have different types of music down there but the sounds are nothing like what you'd hear coming from NY or any other place for that matter...........and in looking at it from that perspective I can understand why a lot of folks don't feel it like we do..........



[/quote=SAMURAI36]That's peace. But the main thing, is that there is little to no variety coming from the South. That's all that is getting played down here.[/quote]




There's variety some of it is just so localized and real South that you won't hear it on the radio......Screw is hot in the South has been but you won't hear anything slowed down outside the Deep South, Bounce hot in N.O. and the surrounding area won't get play , Crunk got play because of the beats because it gets folks worked up it's good in the clubs but that's real mainstream Crunk ...like I mentioned Hyphy stuff from out here in the Bay Area outside the Bay probably won't work but here where it was born...it's fire.....so there are a lot of different sounds from down there but a lot of that stuff won't play well when speaking of mass appeal




[/quote=SAMURAI36]As you and Brother Isaiah pointed out, music is not homogenous to any one particular region.......There are/were some Southern cats that came up to help influence Northern Hip-Hop, right?[/quote]



I agree but at the same time disagree......music gets to other regions due to migration,marketing, and folks traveling now the people that remain in those regions were and remain very regional in their music ....music is a very localized thing....that's why Zydeco hasnt' changed much in all these years....unlike Blues it never really left and went anywhere so it remained and is pretty much in the same state it was heard in years ago....Blues on the other hand has changed and evolved ( I don't like it but that's a different story) ......Southern music that we've done in the South since I was a teenager is pretty much that same now and popular in the same regions it's always been ..

[/quote=SAMURAI36]So why isn't the same reversed influence being reflected down in the South? [/quote]



I think because you don't have a lot of reverse migration by younger folks, you don't have as much diversity in the South for the most part aside from the larger cities, and the South is pretty much a closed society a whole different country if you will and we don't usually accept a lot of outside influences in anything we do not only in music.........I don't know if it's bad or good I'm a purist when it comes to what we make in the South and wouldn't like to see it change too much but that's only my opinion....



[/quote=SAMURAI36]PEACE[quote]

MississippiRed
All Love Bruh

oops.....I messed up my quotes....dam computers! :)

Personally, when it comes to watching videos of rappers that are not particularlymaking their videos(or albums) for the purpose of sharing true vital information(Knowlegde of Self, Wisdom and Understanding) all their videos only usually offer me is a chance to look at some fine women of color...SOMETHING I HAVE NO PROBLEM DOING WHATSOEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

Personally, when it comes to watching videos of rappers that are not particularlymaking their videos(or albums) for the purpose of sharing true vital information(Knowlegde of Self, Wisdom and Understanding) all their videos only usually offer me is a chance to look at some fine women of color...SOMETHING I HAVE NO PROBLEM DOING WHATSOEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

Our women are born "fine." Unlike European and other women, they don't need a music video to show off how good they look.

CD