Spittin' Acid at the Sistahs: Rap(e) & The Assault of Black Women
By Ewuare Osayande


Are rap lyrics responsible for sexual assault against Black women?



Hardly anyone in the Black community would advocate, support or sanction the rape and sexual assault of Black women; yet everyday Black women are being assaulted by Black male rappers, hip hop culture and the recording industry that condones, supports and profits from it.

From the lyrics on the radio to the videos on the tube, Black male rappers engage in an aural and visual assault on the minds and bodies of Black women. This cultural attack on Black women would warrant a state-of-emergency even if the madness began and ended in the studios, but it doesn't. More and more, Black men and boys are reciting these lyrics until they become the mental script that directs their interactions with Black women even as these tracks
advocate the real-life hatred and violence toward women.

But what Nelly and his fellow rap cohorts fail to realize is that for every time they swipe a credit card through a Black female's behind and cash in on this oppressive profit-making scam, someone else is swiping one through their own ***** as they remain bent in the position of submission to a system that views them as property too.
At face value, many would dismiss my description and assessment as being over the top, but upon close examination, one will realize that the critical condition of the situation cannot be overstated. My words fall way short of capturing the deadly effect misogynistic rap is having on Black women. The fact is that what many rappers are spewing is criminal by most societies' standards.

According to Black's Law Dictionary sexual assault is defined as "Any willful attempt or threat to inflict injury upon the person of another, when coupled with an apparent present ability so to do, and any intentional display of force such as would give the victim reason to fear or expect immediate bodily harm, constitutes an assault. An assault may be committed without actually or striking, or doing bodily harm, to the person of another." (p. 114)

As the definition clarifies, assault doesn't need actual physical contact to be considered such. The mere threat of violence is all that is required. Clearly what rap has become, what it constitutes and perpetuates is a direct threat to Black women who relate to men who listen to and are persuaded by a music that prides itself on being the epitome of reality, not the studio-contrived production that it really is. Given this, Black women walk under the constant threat of being preyed upon by men that step to the beat of a sampled drum loop produced by platinum-laced pied pipers who proclaim themselves pimps.

The combination of violent lyrics and pornographic images result in a poisonous concoction that is literally numbing our youth to the deadly ramifications of what the record industry has made rap to be. Increasingly rap is becoming synonymous with rape as record execs are using rap to violate the minds of our youth with pornographic images even as it works to justify and perpetuate the actual rape of Black women.

What becomes clear through all of this is the role of the state and the corporate structure in producing an image of Black women as "*****/ho" to substantiate their continued subjugation for the purpose of their economic exploitation. For example, if the corporate structure can convince young Black women at an early age that prostituting one's body is not a bad life-choice and the state denies the majority of them access to a sound education and economic opportunity even as it demonizes them for making that "choice," then the role becomes a self-perpetuating prophecy that gets fulfilled with each successive generation. In so doing, this
form of social entrapment will ensure that elite men can reap the illicit economic benefits of this debilitating cycle.

Manning Marable describes in particular detail how this process emerged as it relates to the racist/sexist image of Black women and the impact that image would have on their actual lives.

"The Depression and war years produced within the popular culture the figure of the Sapphire: a Black woman who was 'evil, treacherous, bitchy, stubborn, and hateful.' The Sapphire stereotype was utilized by White males, who 'could justify their dehumanization and sexual exploitation of Black women,' and by males, who could reasonably 'claim that they could not get along with Black women because they were so evil.'" (p. 85)

Today, this has manifested in an inter-racial alliance of White and Black men who are reaping tremendous profits from the overt exploitation of this sexualized Sapphire stereotype. In truth it is a tri-racial alliance as many Asian execs, producers, writers, and artists are attempting to cash in on the crass display of subjugated Black female sexuality. As such, this capitalist assembly line production of CDs, DVDs and magazines amounts to a gang rape of Black female identity.

The now infamous image of a man swiping a credit card through the crack of a Black female's backside in rap star Nelly's video "Tip Drill" exposes the way these rappers, the recording industry and their eager clientele view Black women: as commodity, as property. Period. Their value is only determined by the degree that they can be violated.

But what Nelly and his fellow rap cohorts fail to realize is that for every time they swipe a credit card through a Black female's behind and cash in on this oppressive profit-making scam, someone else is swiping one through their own ***** as they remain bent in the position of submission to a system that views them as property too. But then again, maybe they do realize it, and just fail to care given the amount of fame and fortune that has come their way. But
what we must realize is that there are millions of Black girls who are being violated in the name of hip hop culture and reap no profit from it whatsoever. And so the question that faces the Black community is: Do we care?

The lines between what is art and what is reality are blurring when artists' marketability is based on a street credibility that they are expected to tote. And in too many cases Black women are the casualties of their rap mantra of "keeping it real."

It has become an expectation that every gangsta rapper's CD will have an obligatory "Beat that Ho" song in their rap repertoire. Gangsta rappers take the persona of the pimp as their
street archetype of choice. To be a pimp means that the possibility of slapping, beating or otherwise assaulting a woman is just a look or a word away. This valorization of violence sits at the center of the current image of the rapper. And many rappers are being turned out by an industry that is invested in keeping Black men in the role of violent-prone sexual predator.

50 Cent, one of the most popular rappers on the scene today, is heard intimidating a woman on his 2003 top ten track, " P.I.M.P." that stayed in rotation on radio for weeks upon its
release:

***** choose with me, I'll have you stripping in the street/
Put my other hoes down, you get your *** beat/
Now Nick is my bottom *****, she always come up with my bread/
The last ***** she was with put stitches in her head.

Beanie Sigel's "Watch Your *******" from his Def Jam release entitled The Reason takes an even more morbid turn when he threatens a woman with

bye bye *****/
**** that red dress on/
get a head step on/
speed on before you get peed on/
when I piss I don't miss/
get mad, scratch your *** and get glad/
before I scratch your *** and get Glad bags/
throw your **** out on the trash.

The celebrated rap producer Dr. Dre is heard in his rap "Housewife" from the CD Dr. Dre 2001 saying,

Naw *** is short for honey/
almost had her wailing like Bunny/
telling tales of being pregnant, catching Nordstrom sales with abortion money/
I spotted her seeing her with my ****** when I shot at her.

On Lil John's track "******* Aint ****" from the popular Crunk Juice CD, he regurgitates the master/slave relationship with him, a Black man, assuming the role of the master with the Black
woman as his slave.

Acting all sophisticated spending money that she didn't make/
I get so mad that I could slap her acting like she Cleopatra/
aint no need to ask she's a slave to the money and I'm the master.

Snoop Doggy Dogg has an entire track about beating women on his latest CD R&G: (Rhythm and Gangsta) The Masterpiece. The rap, "Can U Control Yo ***" has Snoop schooling another guy on how to beat the woman he is living with. The chorus is instructive in its brutality:

Can you control your ***? (You got a ***** that won't obey what you say)/
You can't control your ***? (She hardheaded, she just won't obey)/
Can you control your *** (You've got to know what to do, what to say)/
You've got to put that ***** in her place, even if it's slapping her in her face/
Ya got to control your ***/
Can you control your ***?

Later in the track he says,

What kind of pimp holds back?/
Never met a ***** that a pimp can't slap/
What's wrong with pimpin'?

This is the same Snopp Dogg that gets featured in movies and commercials selling fabric softener! It is also the same Snoop Dogg that produces porn and "Girls Gone Wild" videos. These self-admitted womanizers and women-beaters are rewarded and celebrated in our society, and we see nothing wrong with this?


CLICK ON THE WEB ADDRESS FOR MORE OF THIS ARTICLE

http://www.seeingblack.com/2005/x042905/spittin_acid.shtml


PEACE!
ISAIAH

Every being on this planet is responsible for their actions, with an exception of mentally retarted people. IMO, the rap lyrics you hear nowadays are all for gain and profit. I'm sure these rappers, male&female have actually experienced the bitter reality of their choice lyrics. What better way to grab the public's attention than to go against the grain of harmony. It's all an infinite pimp&ho3 industry, that's what makes this system go round, IMO. I've noticed when a record label is owned and operated by blacks like Cash Money, and No Limit......they degrade women far less than the commercial Producers. Perhaps it stems from the southern hospitality ideal of the two above mentioned. Nobody in America, let alone the world over is interested in Black affairs, unless they can get a knee-slapping laugh out of it. I've even noticed that after the Katrina horrors, and "Tookie's" execution, I receive more stares of pity from whites. SAD. BW the world over are the universal punching bag, moreso than BM, because they are seen in a defenseless light. People can look down on us and say :At least I'm not Black and/or woman!!" So when a "rapper" does his thizzle, most people are glad that they are confirming what they've felt all along about the Black race, particularly, BW. Not to be uppity, but the hip-hop culture has gotten so out-of-hand that when I pass a group of obvious young Black hip-hoppers, NONE of them can look me in the eye, even upon a simple "HELLO"!! Is this because the image of an upright BW is as rare as a four leaf clover?!?! I certainly hope not. A lot of these young Black "rappers" know disrespecting women/Black is the only way to relate to WM, so they do it for Brownie Points, perhaps.

Every being on this planet is responsible for their actions, with an exception of mentally retarted people. IMO, the rap lyrics you hear nowadays are all for gain and profit. I'm sure these rappers, male&female have actually experienced the bitter reality of their choice lyrics. What better way to grab the public's attention than to go against the grain of harmony. It's all an infinite pimp&ho3 industry, that's what makes this system go round, IMO. I've noticed when a record label is owned and operated by blacks like Cash Money, and No Limit......they degrade women far less than the commercial Producers. Perhaps it stems from the southern hospitality ideal of the two above mentioned. Nobody in America, let alone the world over is interested in Black affairs, unless they can get a knee-slapping laugh out of it. I've even noticed that after the Katrina horrors, and "Tookie's" execution, I receive more stares of pity from whites. SAD. BW the world over are the universal punching bag, moreso than BM, because they are seen in a defenseless light. People can look down on us and say :At least I'm not Black and/or woman!!" So when a "rapper" does his thizzle, most people are glad that they are confirming what they've felt all along about the Black race, particularly, BW. Not to be uppity, but the hip-hop culture has gotten so out-of-hand that when I pass a group of obvious young Black hip-hoppers, NONE of them can look me in the eye, even upon a simple "HELLO"!! Is this because the image of an upright BW is as rare as a four leaf clover?!?! I certainly hope not. A lot of these young Black "rappers" know disrespecting women/Black is the only way to relate to WM, so they do it for Brownie Points, perhaps.

My beautiful sister, I agee with you, and that is why I posted the article, so we could address it reasonably among ourselves... But I have to ask you how you could justify what you are saying here, about Lil Jon and Fiddy and Snoop Dog, but hold a TUPAC in such high esteem in the thread about him down in the Entertainment Forum??? Is there really a qualitative difference between those lyrics up above, and I GET AROUND???

Isn't a similar message being sent out in the lyrics of that song??? Also, his actions with that sister, which as I recall, were caught on video tape...how do you reconcile holding one of these guys in high regard, and the others catch your disgust??? Talk to me...

Peace!
Isaiah

i see the problem but i do not see a solution.
issues such as this are why i consider black people to be in a very bad state right now even though some of us are making a lot of money.
it almost seems as though one gets paid more if you degrade your own.

I've never known black people to be in such a low state.
it saddens me.

It's truely sad that we are mentally at this state of mind
and push to leave lyrical maze upon younger bruthas that
this so cool and right.

Men have to start thinking IMO.

I got to second Brother Omo.

i wonder where the young brothers get these types of ideas from?:uzi:

everyone has a choice with their daily beliefs...
it's just too bad that too many of us are sheep...

just because you hear someone calling a black women a b**** or a h** doesn't mean that you must follow along...
but unfortunately that is the plight of the human race and i believe that it will eventually be the death of us all...99.99% of us are followers...imho

one love
khasm

everyone has a choice with their daily beliefs...
it's just too bad that too many of us are sheep...

just because you hear someone calling a black women a b**** or a h** doesn't mean that you must follow along...
but unfortunately that is the plight of the human race and i believe that it will eventually be the death of us all...99.99% of us are followers...imho

one love
khasm

Brother Khasm, JUST BECAUSE???

Our sisters are not two-legged dogs... That is what a ***** is, and that is what these knuckeheaded fools have chosen to call BLACK WOMEN, and we all up in here making excuses for them... When your mama, your daughter, your sister is nothing but a ***** to you, I'm sorry to say it, but you deserve to be treated like the dog you see others as... That is not Isaiah's opinon, that is the law of the universe... Ignorance of that law is no excuse, either...

Brother Omowale and Manasiac, granted the sisters are outta order, but are you brothers daring to say that you can find lyrics out here directed at men like the ones up above??? Show a brother the money...(smile!)

Peace!
isaiah

Miscogynistic lyrics is one thing. On the other hand, what about Sistas such as Eve, Foxy Brown, Lil Kim and Trina?

I knew it wouldn't take long. It never seems to fail.

Mention the damage being done by Brothers, and Sisters' faults are quickly put on the table.

Even when they are negligible in comparison.

It's a sign, when one's challenges can't be discussed or resolved, without pointing fingers at others.

:heart:

Destee

we are awash with poison from this society.
we are all infected. me too.

it's a waste of time to argue over who has the least infection.

we need to put our heads together and figure out a way to cleanse us all.
with the intensity of the attack on Black people today it is a wonder the behavior is not worse.

M. karenga said last monday that we need to stop talking so much about the bad that Black people do and focus more on the good.
he said we need to take a more positive approach.
maybe that is a start?

In my opinion rap music isn't bad; only the lyrics are.

I don't agree with Christianity, but I have heard about a young Christian rapper that has gained popularity.

Rap music is popular; I don't think it can be gotten rid of. But I do think it can be redirected to send out positive messages.

So when these women are making $10,000 per video are they feeling oppressed then? Before rap there were strip clubs, and prostitutes.


I agree with james this is a sick society, but we cant blame "the brothers" there always have and will always be women willing to sell their body for money.

If this author has such a problem why doesn't h just get some investors for his own labels and video channels and promote more conscious hip hop?

peace

BTW

Anyone that wants to blame rap should read the book "confessions of a video vixen". This is a famous rap video dancer that goes into great detail of her WILLINGNESS to be the entire industrys good time girl. Granted this lady was sexually abused as a child.

So when these women are making $10,000 per video are they feeling oppressed then? Before rap there were strip clubs, and prostitutes.



I agree with james this is a sick society, but we cant blame "the brothers" there always have and will always be women willing to sell their body for money.

If this author has such a problem why doesn't h just get some investors for his own labels and video channels and promote more conscious hip hop?

peace

BTW

Anyone that wants to blame rap should read the book "confessions of a video vixen". This is a famous rap video dancer that goes into great detail of her WILLINGNESS to be the entire indistrys good time girl. Granted this lady was sexually abused as a child.





Brother Therious, that was not an attack on RAP... It was written to point out that there is an element in the genre that is mysogynistic... To say it was an attack on RAP is to say that these catz REPRESENT RAP, that they are people with a style our sons should aspire to whether in RAP or not... To say that it was an attack on RAP is to say he would've gone after Chuck D. or KRS1 or X-Clan... He Did Not Do That, so why would you say that the man was attacking RAP?

Listen, my brother, we cannot accept our sisters being attacked to defend ANY kind of music... Music and makin' money or culture, is SECONDARY to our women, and if it offends them, it is no more important than your right arm... I cannot understand African men on this...

If I am the enemy of every brother up in here after this statement, I must say it... It appears to me that the vast majority of us have our priorities mad screwed up... We're straight twisted to defend this GARBAGE in favor of our own sisters, of our own MOTHERS! And THAT is precisely what you are doing when you defend this kinda stupidity... WHY??? Because these cats aren't making any distinction in their records about which women they are talking about... They are talking about ALL women, and you cats know this... They are so filled with their self-hatred and sense of inferiority that they MUST find an outlet for it... Usually, a punk azzed man will do what??? Yes, take it out on someone he feels weaker than he, or someone he feels lesser than he... How can strong and conscious African men support this BS - and from THESE punk-azzed brothers, no less!?

It's disappointing like a mug, brothers...and you got to know that you're making a statement about why we African people are in the condition we are in when you defend THIS kind of thinking...

Peace!
Isaiah

C. Dolores Tucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brother Khasm, JUST BECAUSE???

Our sisters are not two-legged dogs... That is what a ***** is, and that is what these knuckeheaded fools have chosen to call BLACK WOMEN, and we all up in here making excuses for them... When your mama, your daughter, your sister is nothing but a ***** to you, I'm sorry to say it, but you deserve to be treated like the dog you see others as... That is not Isaiah's opinon, that is the law of the universe... Ignorance of that law is no excuse, either...

Brother Omowale and Manasiac, granted the sisters are outta order, but are you brothers daring to say that you can find lyrics out here directed at men like the ones up above??? Show a brother the money...(smile!)

Peace!
isaiah

brotha isaiah....i'm not justifing human behavior...i'm just calling it how i see it...most people are followers...and in this instance, most men are followers to the alpha males...it's messed up but that is just how it is...poor righteous teachers neva called a women a b**** or a h** on wax...but then again, they were not popular by mainstream standards...

you brought up good points in this matter...this is a topic that needs to be talked about in order for it to ever have the chance of changing in the future...

one love
khasm

I knew it wouldn't take long. It never seems to fail.

Mention the damage being done by Brothers, and Sisters' faults are quickly put on the table.

Even when they are negligible in comparison.

It's a sign, when one's challenges can't be discussed or resolved, without pointing fingers at others.

:heart:

Destee

Destee,

I have family in the "Rap" industry. One of my cousins sold millions of records internationally and she never debased herself to the degree as the Sistas that I mentioned. I don't condone mysogynistic lyrics, from men, or lyricism from sistas that are self-debasing. And I say this as a former DJ who worked as a club musician in Hollywood.

The essence of my previous post was directed more at the fact that R&B music, and Blues are musical genres which historically have EXPLOITED Black women, long before the advent of "hip-hop".

I think that it is unfair to take out of context one reference without looking at the entirety of my post.

Peace!

Brother Omowale.

Brother Therious, that was not an attack on RAP... It was written to point out that there is an element in the genre that is mysogynistic... To say it was an attack on RAP is to say that these catz REPRESENT RAP, that they are people with a style our sons should aspire to whether in RAP or not... To say that it was an attack on RAP is to say he would've gone after Chuck D. or KRS1 or X-Clan... He Did Not Do That, so why would you say that the man was attacking RAP?

Listen, my brother, we cannot accept our sisters being attacked to defend ANY kind of music... Music and makin' money or culture, is SECONDARY to our women, and if it offends them, it is no more important than your right arm... I cannot understand African men on this...

If I am the enemy of every brother up in here after this statement, I must say it... It appears to me that the vast majority of us have our priorities mad screwed up... We're straight twisted to defend this GARBAGE in favor of our own sisters, of our own MOTHERS! And THAT is precisely what you are doing when you defend this kinda stupidity... WHY??? Because these cats aren't making any distinction in their records about which women they are talking about... They are talking about ALL women, and you cats know this... They are so filled with their self-hatred and sense of inferiority that they MUST find an outlet for it... Usually, a punk azzed man will do what??? Yes, take it out on someone he feels weaker than he, or someone he feels lesser than he... How can strong and conscious African men support this BS - and from THESE punk-azzed brothers, no less!?

It's disappointing like a mug, brothers...and you got to know that you're making a statement about why we African people are in the condition we are in when you defend THIS kind of thinking...

Peace!
Isaiah

I agree, personally i think rappers that show ill will towards females are wack. I do not support this with my dollars. rap is a mess right now, I just see women making bad choices as well. This sista at my job said the other day how she thinks hugh heffner is cute and shed like to be one of his girl friends (of course this is the same person who has some serious self hate and negrow minded issues). But I believe that American society is that of sexual exploitation, what can i say though rap has taking a dive due to money, house negrows , and whites so I really cant argue here.

what would be the alternative?

complete sensorship? That is not democracy.

Again i pose that q not as an arguement but a serious q. I was conversing with brother dual in the tupac thread. I asked would you alow pacs music if you ruled your own society. Sometimes I hear Afrikan people so wanting to clense society they almost sound like a dicator speaking...the flip side is the devils society where anything goes such as Amerikkka thats not the answer either.

Brother Khasm, JUST BECAUSE???

Our sisters are not two-legged dogs... That is what a ***** is, and that is what these knuckeheaded fools have chosen to call BLACK WOMEN, and we all up in here making excuses for them... When your mama, your daughter, your sister is nothing but a ***** to you, I'm sorry to say it, but you deserve to be treated like the dog you see others as... That is not Isaiah's opinon, that is the law of the universe... Ignorance of that law is no excuse, either...

Brother Omowale and Manasiac, granted the sisters are outta order, but are you brothers daring to say that you can find lyrics out here directed at men like the ones up above??? Show a brother the money...(smile!)

Peace!
isaiah

Brother Isaiah,


I really don't intend on arguing at this point because I don't see how it can really lead to Building trust or faith with each other. As a former DJ who now writes mostly compositions and does my own compilations I make it my buisness to regularly review current releases and have quite an extensive media library. I listen to and purchase a wide range of Black music. I don't condone much of this commercial, mysogynistic "hip hop" and don't appreciate being attacked for pointing out ALL SIDES of this dilemna.

I have specific reasons for citing certain "artists" in particular and I suggest careful listening of their material on your own. It speaks for itself.

And while you're at it, go back and listen to those old skool battles between Sparky D, Queen Latifah, Roxanne Shante and the Real Roxanne.

I can also suggest some Joe Pro, Luke, or Booz Entertainment videos to get a good idea at the depth that some of these women will go. Many times these "rappers" are speaking about experience they have with some of them women who throw themselves at them and will turn every trick in the book. I'm sure Karrine Stephans can agree with that.
Peace!

some of dem rappers is bad, tru dat.
dey all part of the machine dat be poisoning us all.
wha ta do? wha ta do?

i keep tryin to disinfect my own head.

some of dem rappers is bad, tru dat.
dey all part of the machine dat be poisoning us all.
wha ta do? wha ta do?

i keep tryin to disinfect my own head.


One one hand you ask "can we all get along" (Coming from los angeles this sounds more like a joke than an honest appeal), and on the other hand you say "dey all part of the machine"?

Wow.

"dey all"

I wonder what dead prez, Chuck D, Davey D, Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Common and Queen Latifah would think about that gross generalization.


*smh*

I wonder what dead prez, Chuck D, Davey D, Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Common and Queen Latifah would think about that gross generalization.



for the purpose of my point here i felt the thread was talking about the "bad" rappers, not the good ones.
therefore, when i say "they are all part of the machine", i am referring to what i took to be the subject of the thread - the bad rappers.
i said, the bad rappers are all part of the machine.

if U make the argument that not all rappers are bad, i agree with you.

when i use the Rodney King quote it is with humor intended.
i am asking that we stop taking shots at each other.
i don't see where that gets us anywhere.

it is my belief that we are all corrupted. this includes myself.
I've got as many problems as the next guy.
I'm trying to get my head together. i want help with that.
i think we should all try to help each other.

can we all get along?

Sisters?

http://www.njeriearth.com




8miles just the start............



So,



trust ME,


I HATE rap.......




ROARIN.........

Sisters?

http://www.njeriearth.com




8miles just the start............



So,



trust ME,


I HATE rap.......




ROARIN.........


Cass Tech is a great school, evidently, because it produced a lotta great musicians, like James Jamerson and Dr. Donald Byrd...

But Roarin1, don't hate the game, hate the playas - or so it goes...(smile!)


Peace!
Isaiah

Cass Tech is a great school, evidently, because it produced a lotta great musicians, like James Jamerson and Dr. Donald Byrd...

But Roarin1, don't hate the game, hate the playas - or so it goes...(smile!)


Peace!
Isaiah

Brother Isaiah,

In all due respect, this is exactly what I have grown tired of. What has become within "Black society" a culture of "Playa hatin".

Peace!

Brother Isaiah,

In all due respect, this is exactly what I have grown tired of. What has become within "Black society" a culture of "Playa hatin".

Peace!

Brother Omowale, could you be more specific??? What is your point of disagreement with what I said, if any???


Peace!
Isaiah

Brother Omowale, could you be more specific??? What is your point of disagreement with what I said, if any???


Peace!
Isaiah


"don't hate the game, hate the playas- or so it goes."


I believe so-called "playa hating" further divides us and has us fighting ourselves (each other) instead of hating and fighting against "the system".

Just my humble opinion.

"don't hate the game, hate the playas- or so it goes."


I believe so-called "playa hating" further divides us and has us fighting ourselves (each other) instead of hating and fighting against "the system".

Just my humble opinion.

Well, brother, is it your humble opinion that these cats pissin' on Black Women is NOT tearing down our people, but fightin' hard against the oppressor???(smile!) It's cool to savage Black women, but a mortal blow against our humanity to challenge these rappers to kick a more intelligent and conscious lyric??? Brother, I'm stumped by that - truly stumped...

These brothers are more dangerous to us than you realize, brother... They are the minions of a system that has seduced them into performing all the Willie Lynch tricks he couldn't possibly have thought of...and I, frankly, want to destroy them, and what they stand for, which is nothing... Any guy goes to jail to gain credibility to SELL records is a stooge of capitalism.. Why would I support a fool like that... What's more why would you???

PLAYAHATIN'???? Damned right I hate players, man... Yes, I do hate pimps and dealers! Who they playin', and pimpin', brother??? I'm shocked by your usage here, man... I don't relate to playa and pimp, I relate to brotherman and sir, and I aint no ways ashamed a dat... I have ZERO illusions about those words... I don't get seduced and sucked into young folks delusions about what these words mean in their worlds... I know what they meant, and continue to mean in my own... For me, this is not a game, and that's all a "playa's" got is game... You gamin' then you caint be for real... Snoop Dog and them cats are Poseurs... I don't give two cents about them - which is 1 and a half cents more than they care about me... Why do you defend them so??? Like I said, I'm mad stumped, brother...



Peace!
Isaiah

Well, brother, is it your humble opinion that these cats pissin' on Black Women is NOT tearing down our people, but fightin' hard against the oppressor???(smile!) It's cool to savage Black women, but a mortal blow against our humanity to challenge these rappers to kick a more intelligent and conscious lyric??? Brother, I'm stumped by that - truly stumped...

These brothers are more dangerous to us than you realize, brother... They are the minions of a system that has seduced them into performing all the Willie Lynch tricks he couldn't possibly have thought of...and I, frankly, want to destroy them, and what they stand for, which is nothing... Any guy goes to jail to gain credibility to SELL records is a stooge of capitalism.. Why would I support a fool like that... What's more why would you???

PLAYAHATIN'???? Damned right I hate players, man... Yes, I do hate pimps and dealers! Who they playin', and pimpin', brother??? I'm shocked by your usage here, man... I don't relate to playa and pimp, I relate to brotherman and sir, and I aint no ways ashamed a dat... I have ZERO illusions about those words... I don't get seduced and sucked into young folks delusions about what these words mean in their worlds... I know what they meant, and continue to mean in my own... For me, this is not a game, and that's all a "playa's" got is game... You gamin' then you caint be for real... Snoop Dog and them cats are Poseurs... I don't give two cents about them - which is 1 and a half cents more than they care about me... Why do you defend them so??? Like I said, I'm mad stumped, brother...



Peace!
Isaiah


Brother Isaiah,

I never said anything about it being right to "savage Black women". Never. You can disagree, but please do not put words in my mouth ar twist what I am saying.

Really, As an educator, I am speaking of a culture that has developed among Black youth, a cullture which has led to suspicion and mistrust, and open warfare, and created some very difficult conditions for teachers to deal with in schools, this phenom of "playa hatin".

I have spent extensive hours with fellow Black educators trying to address this problem and watching it grow and spread is a leading cause for my decision to retire early. It has become so widespread that many schools in Black communities have become unmanageable. And the kids are learning it from elders, from their parents..

Brother Isaiah,

Tell me. Who EXACTLY am I "defending"?

Cite which post I have defended such persons.

Brother Isaiah,

Tell me. Who EXACTLY am I "defending"?

Cite which post I have defended such persons.

My brother, your initial post in this thread was not to call these guys to task, but to bring sisters bad manners into the discussion as a means of defending these cats... IF that was not the case, then why shift the blame??? Not only did I see that as a subtle defense mechanism, so did Destee...

Listen brother, you aint on trial here... You and I do more damage going at it over this issue, than calling these BOYS to task for their behavior... The problem I am having here is that you are, essentially, telling me I should maintain my silence about something I feel strongly about...

If you feel that I am tearing down Snoop Dog and these clowns, well that is correct... I want them torn down... I don't want them to feel it is alright to call my daughters no *******, because it sends the wrong message to other cats who might wanna call them ******* someday when I'm walking down a street with them, and I gotta spray some raindrops on somebody behind it... If you don't see my logic, then, brother, you are right... We aren't going anywhere but headlong into a terrible argument... I rest my case...


Peace!
Isaiah

My brother, your initial post in this thread was not to call these guys to task, but to bring sisters bad manners into the discussion as a means of defending these cats... IF that was not the case, then why shift the blame??? Not only did I see that as a subtle defense mechanism, so did Destee...

Listen brother, you aint on trial here... You and I do more damage going at it over this issue, than calling these BOYS to task for their behavior... The problem I am having here is that you are, essentially, telling me I should maintain my silence about something I feel strongly about...

If you feel that I am tearing down Snoop Dog and these clowns, well that is correct... I want them torn down... I don't want them to feel it is alright to call my daughters no *******, because it sends the wrong message to other cats who might wanna call them ******* someday when I'm walking down a street with them, and I gotta spray some raindrops on somebody behind it... If you don't see my logic, then, brother, you are right... We aren't going anywhere but headlong into a terrible argument... I rest my case...


Peace!
Isaiah

Brother Isaiah,

I was not "defending" anyone. As someone who has worked in the "industry" I SEE both sides of the coin.

That is all.

Brother Isaiah,

I was not "defending" anyone. As someone who has worked in the "industry" I SEE both sides of the coin.

That is all.

Brother Omowale ... what is the other side of Brothers disrespecting Sisters and getting paid for it?

:heart:

Destee

rap, hip hop or what ever has been turned into a tool against the interests of Black people.

are there some positive rappers?, of course. but those who are counter revolutionary fools need to be crushed or at best retrained.
we got to stop playing with them and get serious. we got a moral crisis and it has to be addressed.
it may not be "cool" among the kids but since when do the children lead the man?
i do not have a problem hating those parasites who prey on my people.
i turn on BET and get a nonstop stream of garbage.
that mess had got to stop.

we need to dig out the positive rappers from where ever they are and get them on the set.

Brother Omowale ... what is the other side of Brothers disrespecting Sisters and getting paid for it?

:heart:

Destee

I am not talking about Brothers disrespecting Sisters and getting paid for it. I personally decided a few years ago not to purchase certain material and now support groups such as dead prez, Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Blackalicious, Common and Dilated Peoples. At the same time, I also stopped buying materil by Foxy Brown, Lil Kim, and other Sistas who I believe are just as obscene, and in some cases worse that some of the people being criticised in this thread. And this is after discussion with my 19 yr old, college educated daughter who herself has spoken to be about how she feels that some female recording artists are just as objectionable as the men.

When I speak of the "other side of the coin" I am speaking of the difference between a performer and a fan or consumer. Especially, if you are a club performer, you see live and in-person some of the things SOME women will do in order to make some inroads into the industry.

So, I am speaking of "how low some will go".....on BOTH sides...Brothers and Sisters...


Furthermore, In a community where there is talk of building trust and us getting along I find it quite ironic that a brother such as Snoop Dog is blasted considering how much this brother recently was in support of Tookie Williams, in speaking against the death penalty, and how much work he is now doing on his own road to redemption working with inner-city kids, when it's obvious that many of his critics are just playing "lip service" or JOKINGLY staing "can we all get along".

rap, hip hop or what ever has been turned into a tool against the interests of Black people.

are there some positive rappers?, of course. but those who are counter revolutionary fools need to be crushed or at best retrained.
we got to stop playing with them and get serious. we got a moral crisis and it has to be addressed.
it may not be "cool" among the kids but since when do the children lead the man?
i do not have a problem hating those parasites who prey on my people.
i turn on BET and get a nonstop stream of garbage.
that mess had got to stop.

we need to dig out the positive rappers from where ever they are and get them on the set.

brother jamesfromphilly,

Really, what recording artists do you listen to on a regular basis that can truly be considered as "revolutionary"?

Furthermore, what EXACTLY are YOU doing to "dig out positive rappers from where ever they are and get them on the set."?

What "set"??

As far as my OWN participation or involvement in promoting "positive "rap" or "hip hop" i suggest checking out my site and the links at
www.blackprophetmusic.com

Peace!

I am not talking about Brothers disrespecting Sisters and getting paid for it. I personally decided a few years ago not to purchase certain material and now support groups such as dead prez, Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Blackalicious, Common and Dilated Peoples. At the same time, I also stopped buying materil by Foxy Brown, Lil Kim, and other Sistas who I believe are just as obscene, and in some cases worse that some of the people being criticised in this thread. And this is after discussion with my 19 yr old, college educated daughter who herself has spoken to be about how she feels that some female recording artists are just as objectionable as the men.

When I speak of the "other side of the coin" I am speaking of the difference between a performer and a fan or consumer. Especially, if you are a club performer, you see live and in-person some of the things SOME women will do in order to make some inroads into the industry.

So, I am speaking of "how low some will go".....on BOTH sides...Brothers and Sisters...


Furthermore, In a community where there is talk of building trust and us getting along I find it quite ironic that a brother such as Snoop Dog is blasted considering how much this brother recently was in support of Tookie Williams, in speaking against the death penalty, and how much work he is now doing on his own road to redemption working with inner-city kids, when it's obvious that many of his critics are just playing "lip service" or JOKINGLY staing "can we all get along".

Brother Omowale, I'm with you about the sisters, as well... We are in agreement about that, that there is a serious crisis of values in our community...

The deal is that Snoop nullifies his good deeds when he resorts to doing this kind of scandalous garbage to what??? GET PAID... That's rentin' your *** out like a cheap whore for what??? a lousy dolla bill... You aim to tell me and our children that he should be respected for that??? uh, uh, brother... He catches no breaks on that tip - no more than Al Sharpton would if he consented to do that DUMB sit-com he was thinkin' about doing... There are other ways of making money, and that's not to mention that making money is of the highest priority for these guys... They already livin' good... No need to go out and be somebody's 'ho'... And BTW, what about those other guys, Lil Jon and dem??? What kinda community work are they doing???

As for brother James, brother, he's doing, and has done a lot more community work than Snoop Dog will ever do... Better to ask him about that rather than jumping to any conclusions...


Peace!
Isaiah

Brother Isaiah,

In all due respect, I am not going to defend any one in particular, but I am not going to come to this particualr web site and speak concerning UNITY then "call out" particular Brothers OR Sisters...

Peace...

Oh...I am not the one who is "jumping to any conclusions". In fact, I am trying my best not to..

I am not talking about Brothers disrespecting Sisters and getting paid for it. I personally decided a few years ago not to purchase certain material and now support groups such as dead prez, Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Blackalicious, Common and Dilated Peoples. At the same time, I also stopped buying materil by Foxy Brown, Lil Kim, and other Sistas who I believe are just as obscene, and in some cases worse that some of the people being criticised in this thread. And this is after discussion with my 19 yr old, college educated daughter who herself has spoken to be about how she feels that some female recording artists are just as objectionable as the men.

When I speak of the "other side of the coin" I am speaking of the difference between a performer and a fan or consumer. Especially, if you are a club performer, you see live and in-person some of the things SOME women will do in order to make some inroads into the industry.

So, I am speaking of "how low some will go".....on BOTH sides...Brothers and Sisters...


Furthermore, In a community where there is talk of building trust and us getting along I find it quite ironic that a brother such as Snoop Dog is blasted considering how much this brother recently was in support of Tookie Williams, in speaking against the death penalty, and how much work he is now doing on his own road to redemption working with inner-city kids, when it's obvious that many of his critics are just playing "lip service" or JOKINGLY staing "can we all get along".

Brother O ... thanks for your response.

:heart:

Destee

brother jamesfromphilly,

Really, what recording artists do you listen to on a regular basis that can truly be considered as "revolutionary"?

john coltrane, the last poets, miles davis, KRS-1, public enemy, dead prez, steve coleman............

OK..I can't argue with those choices. Similar to some of my favorites. Now, let me clarfy. What are YOU or any of the ones you mentioned presently doing to correct the situation of concern to you.

And I ask this not as a challenge. It is my FAMILY BUSINESS...the development and promotion of positive hip hop CULTURE.

My WEB SITE attests to this. As does my own personal contribution to the "Black Arts Movement".

So, I am asking because it is my BUISNESS to NETWORK with "like-minds"...

In fact, when I first posted on this site as "Omowale X" the two threads I posted in was one dealing with the Black August Movement, of which dead prez has been very supportive, and Destee's tread concerning how hip hop destroyed the Black Power Movement....so...my viewpoint is in the same framework today as it was when I first came here two years ago..

Peace!

Brother O ... thanks for your response.

:heart:

Destee

Destee,

You're Welcome.

One Love
:luvv:

Brother Isaiah,

In all due respect, I am not going to defend any one in particular, but I am not going to come to this particualr web site and speak concerning UNITY then "call out" particular Brothers OR Sisters...

Peace...

Oh...I am not the one who is "jumping to any conclusions". In fact, I am trying my best not to..

OK, my brother, then I extend my sincere apologies - and say, also, that NONE of us in this thread should be going to war over these cats, because NONE of us is tearing down our community like these cats we're taking to task...

This is not about the entire HipHop World, nor is it about RAP... It is about certain elements in RAP, and just as we criticize the elements in RAP, you know as a music historian, those elements in the BLUES and JAZZ and R&B, were constantly called into question... That is one of the reasons African Americans abandoned the BLUES, because of some of it's less than wonderful messages...(smile!) We have always been self-critical, and there's heart, and soul, and courage in taking oneself to task for less than your best behaviour... That's MAATIAN ethics, in fact, so this idea that we are tearing down US, when we seek to correct one or two people is strange to me...

It is like back in the day, a family friend of ours, and a cat who'd just gotten out of the joint, chastised some youth who were cursing on a bus in which my mother was riding... Today, we'd say he was tearing down our community, limiting these children's right to free speech, infringing upon their democratic rights to free speech(smile!) Yeah, he was doing all of those things, because those children had not yet learned how to use those rights and freedoms without hurting others... Like one is free to swing a hammer at a nail, not people, yet some haven't figured out the difference... One cannot shout fire in crowded theatre, but our children think that's OK, untill they're hauled off to jail...

It's our responsibility - without much further preaching on it - to say their are limits on your freedom, children... Exercise those you have wisely, or there will be consequences... THAT is not tearing down the community, that is attempting to keep it in tact...

Peace!
Isaiah

OK, my brother, then I extend my sincere apologies - and say, also, that NONE of us in this thread should be going to war over these cats, because NONE of us is tearing down our community like these cats we're taking to task...

This is not about the entire HipHop World, nor is it about RAP... It is about certain elements in RAP, and just as we criticize the elements in RAP, you know as a music historian, those elements in the BLUES and JAZZ and R&B, were constantly called into question... That is one of the reasons African Americans abandoned the BLUES, because of some of it's less than wonderful messages...(smile!) We have always been self-critical, and there's heart, and soul, and courage in taking oneself to task for less than your best behaviour... That's MAATIAN ethics, in fact, so this idea that we are tearing down US, when we seek to correct one or two people is strange to me...

It is like back in the day, a family friend of ours, and a cat who'd just gotten out of the joint, chastised some youth who were cursing on a bus in which my mother was riding... Today, we'd say he was tearing down our community, limiting these children's right to free speech, infringing upon their democratic rights to free speech(smile!) Yeah, he was doing all of those things, because those children had not yet learned how to use those rights and freedoms without hurting others... Like one is free to swing a hammer at a nail, not people, yet some haven't figured out the difference... One cannot shout fire in crowded theatre, but our children think that's OK, untill they're hauled off to jail...

It's our responsibility - without much further preaching on it - to say their are limits on your freedom, children... Exercise those you have wisely, or there will be consequences... THAT is not tearing down the community, that is attempting to keep it in tact...

Peace!
Isaiah

Brother Isaiah,

Believe me, I am not going to war "defending" anyone who is a commercial "rap" artist. It's not worth the effort. The only exception would be if that person was an actual FAMILY member. In fact, if you visit my website and check the numerous links, some of the same folk that brotherjamesfrom philly mentioned have links on my site.

Let me present this to you this way. If Public Enemy, who is my favorite "rap group" is mentioned as being Revolutionary, which particular time period would that encompass. The Public Enemy with Professor Griff, or post-Griff with Sista Souljah as the Minister of Information. Myself, I would have to consider the relationship to Sista Souljah as a member of the National African Youth Student Alliance (NAYSA) of which I was a founding member on the west coast. This also brings into question some comments concerning Tupac Shakur.

Dead Prez, who also was mentioned by brother james, has performed regularly in the Black August concert series, going back to programs held in Cuba. In their support for Black Political Prisoners, they have also supported the cause of clemency for sista Asaata Shakur. Asaataa has a close relationship with Tupac Shakur's step-fatherm Mutulu Shakur, and also with Tupac's mom, Afeni. Do you believe that Asaata and dead prez, when questioned would agree that Tupac was a "counter-revolutionary"?

Also, considering that Public Enemy is a group, is Flava Flav more "revolutionary" than Tupac?

If your answer to the last question is YES then I strongly suggest ordering some editions of MTV's Surreal World in which Flava Flav developed a "love thang" with Bridgette Nielson, which also led to the series "Real Love".

Another question, and this is for anyone which it applies, has anyone read the book"Inside A Thug's Heart" with original poems and letters by Tupac Shakur, authored by Angela Ardis?

And I ask you the same question I asked brother james, Brother Isaiah, what are YOU doing to cahnge the situation of which you are complaining about. I am sure that living in the naked city with 8 Million Stories that there must be some vehicle by which to link up with artists affiliated with Bambaata's Native Tongues Collective, or others who are promoting "positive hip hop".

I can argue with you folks 24/7 on these issues but arguing does not prove to be productive. I am a man of action. I have personal FAMILY relationship to Tupac Shakur. I have pPERSONAl "extended" family relationship with Sista Souljah. And my website is a small tool by which I am trying to promote "positive hip hop". Quite simply, what are YOU doing....?

Peace!

My brother, your initial post in this thread was not to call these guys to task, but to bring sisters bad manners into the discussion as a means of defending these cats... IF that was not the case, then why shift the blame??? Not only did I see that as a subtle defense mechanism, so did Destee...

Listen brother, you aint on trial here... You and I do more damage going at it over this issue, than calling these BOYS to task for their behavior... The problem I am having here is that you are, essentially, telling me I should maintain my silence about something I feel strongly about...

If you feel that I am tearing down Snoop Dog and these clowns, well that is correct... I want them torn down... I don't want them to feel it is alright to call my daughters no *******, because it sends the wrong message to other cats who might wanna call them ******* someday when I'm walking down a street with them, and I gotta spray some raindrops on somebody behind it... If you don't see my logic, then, brother, you are right... We aren't going anywhere but headlong into a terrible argument... I rest my case...


Peace!
Isaiah

Brother Isaiah,

I am not suggesting that you or anyone else maintain your silence. However, I don't appreciate being attacked for my own support or defense of Tookie Williams or Tupac Shakur. I have my reasons. It has to do with personal, first hand knowledge of these individuals or their various "family" members as Destee.com is part of my "family". For you or anyone else to suggest that I participate in TEARING DOWN any part of MY FAMILY, to me, is COUNTER-REVOLUTIONARY!

As you know this particular community has its own internet critics. Including former members who have created other webistes. Some who have attempted to bring down and discredit this particular community in the process. Not myself. In fact, I am developing my own site, which is not a membership site, while promoting Destee.com in the process. I also have links to other sites, some of which include links to the very same websites of former Destee.com. ALL I consider MY FAMILY.

I hope that you are not suggesting to me that I engage in tearing dowm one part of MY FAMILY while building up another?

If my "defense" of Tupac Shakur is troubling to you, let me leave you with this. Before the world knew Tupac as an actor or "rap artist' I KNEW Tupac when he was a youth and boot dancer with the New African Scouts, the youth wing of the New African People's Organization, the present day Malcom X Grassroots Organization, which is the chief sponsor of the Black August Movement which is held every year in either New York or Cuba, the very same NAPO which is an extension of Asaata Shakur's Black Liberation Army (BLA).

Living in New York, brother Isaiah, how much support have you given to the organizers of the Black August Movement in support of Black Political Prisoners and Freedom Fighters?!

Brother Isaiah,

My life is an OPEN BOOK.

If you have any doubt concerning my sincerity it is quite simple. I have exposed myself in this web sites Family Photo Album section. In the past few days I have begun remiving some photos and forum posts.

Web search "Omowale Jabali". Check the few results you get. There should be one from the UCLA Alumni Association newsletter. In that particular it mentions on of my SISTERS, Nosizwe Chimurenga, who presently is a coordinator for Tyra Banks' T-ZONE Foundation, which does work on behalf of youth women all across this country, mostly in the Los Angeles area. Read Sister Nosizwe's biography. There are some close parallels with my own life. Her usband, who is the President of the UCLA Black Alumni Assocaiation is one of my BEST FRIENDS and CLOSEST BROTHER.

I guarantee if you asked eith of them about my contributions to the "Movement" they can tell you quite a number of stories. If asked about "South African Solidarity Day", 1985, they can confirm my statements in regards to Sista Souljah AND concerning Tupac Shakur, who performed at Solidarity Day '85.

Brother, I speak what I KNOW because I KNOW those of who I speak of.

Who else here can make a similar statement and PROVE it?

One Love!

Brother Isaiah,

In all due respect, this is exactly what I have grown tired of. What has become within "Black society" a culture of "Playa hatin".

Peace!

Brother Omowale, this particular quote by yourself is one which I felt you implied that by discussing this issue, you were suggesting that I was tearing down "brothers", as well as, one you wrote in the Tupac thread in the entertainment section... I have NEVER said, nor suggested that you were tearing down the community, and why you are so agitated and excited about something I never said, is beyond me...

As for pulling peoples cards, go right ahead... I don't give out my address over the internet... It's dangerous, brother O, and you should know that... Frankly, one doesn't have to be a member of any organization to be doing great things in their community... Some organizations aint nothing but paper organizations anyway, considering their impact, but rest assured that I support a number of organizations, and the FBI probably knows all about 'em(Smile!) Go ask them for my dossier, my beloved, since you want that badboy so bad...

But, brotherman, one doesn't have to be doing something that satisfies the criteria of others to express an opinion... I don't have to meet with the credibility standards of the Nation Of Islam or the Organization of Africans in America, or Kawaida Organizations, all of whom I've had membership in, to express my opinions, and neither do you or anyone else on this planet... Who died and left these folks to be our GOD, brother??? I respect the opinions of Farrakhan, Maulana, and yourself, but there's only ONE GOD we learned when we took the Shahada...

NOW, I'm gonna leave this alone, because I respect you, and respectfully want to move on, beloved, but let's agree to be respectful of the right of others to author an opinion... If we cannot even do that, then we cannot even conceive of having a Nation, much less building one... Remember that even Malcolm called into question his days before he became an Original...


Peace!
Isaiah

Brother Isaiah,

I clearly respect the right of you or anyone else to "be respectful of the right of others to author an opinion" but at the sem time I reserve the right to exercise my own opinion when an opinion expressed even suggests "tearing down" My Family or one of my family members!

Peace,

I'm done!

Moving forward...to Higher Ground!

OK..I can't argue with those choices. Similar to some of my favorites. Now, let me clarify. What are YOU or any of the ones you mentioned presently doing to correct the situation of concern to you.

And I ask this not as a challenge. It is my FAMILY BUSINESS...the development and promotion of positive hip hop CULTURE.

My WEB SITE attests to this. As does my own personal contribution to the "Black Arts Movement".

So, I am asking because it is my BUSINESS to NETWORK with "like-minds"...

In fact, when I first posted on this site as "Omowale X" the two threads I posted in was one dealing with the Black August Movement, of which dead prez has been very supportive, and Destee's tread concerning how hip hop destroyed the Black Power Movement....so...my viewpoint is in the same framework today as it was when I first came here two years ago..

Peace!
i think we are on the same page here.

i do not have an organization but I go around loudly venting against the "bad" rappers hoping to influence some one somewhere.
of course, my own collection is pristine.

The girls in rap videos do have power to change it if they weren't such cowards. If all the "models" (and I use that word loosely) in rap videos all told the rap industry that they will no longer be half naked and be portrayed as mindless T and A in the videos, what would the irap industry do? The industry would comply and change, that's what it would do. They need these girls as much (if not more) as the girls need them. Unfortunately the huge majority of these girls do not want to take that stand because if they do, another chick would be there to get half naked if she doesn't, so they do as they are told. The girls are as much at fault as the rap industry is.

i think we are on the same page here.

i do not have an organization but I go around loudly venting against the "bad" rappers hoping to influence some one somewhere.
of course, my own collection is pristine.


Well brother james,

I think the best course of action is putting our money where our mouths are...thats' why im a premium member at Destee.com:kiss1: (that's to our Queen Mother)..
I'm a little surprised you didn't mention The Roots which is probably my favorite hip hop BAND right about now. I like the way that they use live instrumentation. Kind reminds me of Motowns "Funk Brothers".

I think that just like Kanye West is calling for a boycott of Pepsi, it would be more effective if folks used a Cultural Boycott unless these BROTHERS clean up their acts..

This was effective to a certain degree in the Anti-Apartheid Movement...Brother, the one thing that hurt me the most was having to boycot "Uncle R.C.".....and in this case I refer to his as "Uncle" in a postive sense, as if he was my own uncle....Ray Charles Enterprises sponsored one of my Little League teams when I was a kid...

JMO,
Omowale.

The girls are as much at fault as the rap industry is.
while they are not blameless they are not as responsible as the industry.
the industry is exploiting us all.

My beautiful sister, I agee with you, and that is why I posted the article, so we could address it reasonably among ourselves... But I have to ask you how you could justify what you are saying here, about Lil Jon and Fiddy and Snoop Dog, but hold a TUPAC in such high esteem in the thread about him down in the Entertainment Forum??? Is there really a qualitative difference between those lyrics up above, and I GET AROUND???

Isn't a similar message being sent out in the lyrics of that song??? Also, his actions with that sister, which as I recall, were caught on video tape...how do you reconcile holding one of these guys in high regard, and the others catch your disgust??? Talk to me...

Peace!
Isaiah


I recognize that Tupac wasn't a saint, however, on the brighter side, he was an BLACK ACTIVIST, coming from a family of Panthers. How he began to disrespect sisters in his music is unheard of. It seems like no matter how strict the upbringing, there's an inkling of thuggishness that creeps into many young AA males. 50, Snoop, and Lil' John, are ONLY about senseless B.S. I can't deny that many of them do have catchy lyrics, but I've never bought the three above mentioned rapper's records.

I recognize that Tupac wasn't a saint, however, on the brighter side, he was an BLACK ACTIVIST, coming from a family of Panthers. How he began to disrespect sisters in his music is unheard of. It seems like no matter how strict the upbringing, there's an inkling of thuggishness that creeps into many young AA males. 50, Snoop, and Lil' John, are ONLY about senseless B.S. I can't deny that many of them do have catchy lyrics, but I've never bought the three above mentioned rapper's records.


Sister Spicy, have you read anything about Afeni Shakur and Tupac's relationship? Read more, because I don't think you'll find he was raised in a "strict" environment(smile!)

Also, when we say Tupac was an ACTIVIST, what was he an activist for??? What are some of the examples of his activism???


Peace!
Isaiah

Most of Tupac's image was fake as hell.

I read part of Afeni's biography done by Jasmine Guy a few days ago and can't wait to get back into it.

Tupac (LeShaun) was soft and into "the arts" through out most of his life, unlike that hard-core persona he always portrayed in public.


And with all this reppin he was doing for Oakland and the West Coast, the man was born in NEW YORK of all places and races in New York and Baltimore until he was a teenage THEN him and his mother moved to Marin City (outside of Oakland) before his entertainment career.

He was basically groomed to be in the limelight.


But I'm growing to have more respect for Afeni and the things she's been through in life by reading her biography.

Sister Spicy, have you read anything about Afeni Shakur and Tupac's relationship? Read more, because I don't think you'll find he was raised in a "strict" environment(smile!)

Also, when we say Tupac was an ACTIVIST, what was he an activist for??? What are some of the examples of his activism???


Peace!
Isaiah

No I don't know too much about the relationship between him & his mother. It is known that she was a dope fiend, and barely fed her children. He supported the uplifting of Black men, and taking on responsibility within the Black community. See the lighter side of Tupac-"Ressurection". Likeasaid, the media will not make an angel of a self proclaimed thug. All you have to do is decode some of the lyrics of some of his hit songs: "Whitemans World", "Brenda's Got A Baby", "Dear Mamma", not to mention the many other songs he wrote, that never made it to the lime-light. Even if he was putting on a front as Dual Karnayn stated, it happens all too often; a Black male being raised to do right, as he approaches his warrior years, another side emerges, which is shaped by the media, lack of decent parenting, society, and peers. Tupac Shakur was the real live yin-yang of too many urban Black males.

"Tupac (LeShaun) was soft and into "the arts" through out most of his life, unlike that hard-core persona he always portrayed in public."

I guess that's what happens when you grow up on the mean streets of the Bay Area-Cali.LOL:danger:

No I don't know too much about the relationship between him & his mother. It is known that she was a dope fiend, and barely fed her children. He supported the uplifting of Black men, and taking on responsibility within the Black community. See the lighter side of Tupac-"Ressurection". Likeasaid, the media will not make an angel of a self proclaimed thug. All you have to do is decode some of the lyrics of some of his hit songs: "Whitemans World", "Brenda's Got A Baby", "Dear Mamma", not to mention the many other songs he wrote, that never made it to the lime-light. Even if he was putting on a front as Dual Karnayn stated, it happens all too often; a Black male being raised to do right, as he approaches his warrior years, another side emerges, which is shaped by the media, lack of decent parenting, society, and peers. Tupac Shakur was the real live yin-yang of too many urban Black males.

Though Tupac had talent, presence and a sort kind of charisma, let's be clear...Black men have been writing and singing about the white man’s world, Brenda’s baby and praising their mama for centuries. It’s sad that the Rap world has degenerated Black culture, prose and music so bad that when a Hip Hop artist is not talking about unadulterated sex and violence he’s hailed as revolutionary icon or an avenger of Black suffering.

The so-called Gangsta’ rap industry (and I do mean industry) has exploited certain destructive and dysfunctional aspects of urban life and created more disturbed and genocidal thinkers amongst our youth than was already present.

There is nothing in the water or food in the Black community that makes a person more murderous in the inner city, than a small town in Mississippi, regardless if it’s the West coast, Chicago, Houston, New Orleans or New York. If suffering and hard times are the producers of fratricidal anti-social behavior amongst our people than we should have been “gang bangin’” in the deep Jim Crow south long before our migrations to the urban reality.

Most people who listen to and buy into the Gangsta’ rap industry are seduced by realities that they have never experienced or could really relate to, so sometimes they try to recreate these romanticized realities of violence and genocidal lifestyles (real or imagined) to validate their new-found “Ghetto-ness” or “Thug-ness”; and they realize the best ways to do that is to harm or destroy somebody Black, debase Black women, degrade the Black reality and/or sell poison (dope) to their own people.

I still have rarely, if ever, heard conscious prose on par with Umar Bin Hassan (Last Poets), Kamau Daaood, Nikki Giovanni, Langston Hughes or Amiri Baraka come out of the Rap or Hip Hop world.

It’s one thing to be played, but it’s another thing to play your self.

Peace

Though Tupac had talent, presence and a sort kind of charisma, let's be clear...Black men have been writing and singing about the white man’s world, Brenda’s baby and praising their mama for centuries. It’s sad that the Rap world has degenerated Black culture, prose and music so bad that when a Hip Hop artist is not talking about unadulterated sex and violence he’s hailed as revolutionary icon or an avenger of Black suffering.

The so-called Gangsta’ rap industry (and I do mean industry) has exploited certain destructive and dysfunctional aspects of urban life and created more disturbed and genocidal thinkers amongst our youth than was already present.

There is nothing in the water or food in the Black community that makes a person more murderous in the inner city, than a small town in Mississippi, regardless if it’s the West coast, Chicago, Houston, New Orleans or New York. If suffering and hard times are the producers of fratricidal anti-social behavior amongst our people than we should have been “gang bangin’” in the deep Jim Crow south long before our migrations to the urban reality.

Most people who listen to and buy into the Gangsta’ rap industry are seduced by realities that they have never experienced or could really relate to, so sometimes they try to recreate these romanticized realities of violence and genocidal lifestyles (real or imagined) to validate their new-found “Ghetto-ness” or “Thug-ness”; and they realize the best ways to do that is to harm or destroy somebody Black, debase Black women, degrade the Black reality and/or sell poison (dope) to their own people.

I still have rarely, if ever, heard conscious prose on par with Umar Bin Hassan (Last Poets), Kamau Daaood, Nikki Giovanni, Langston Hughes or Amiri Baraka come out of the Rap or Hip Hop world.

It’s one thing to be played, but it’s another thing to play your self.

Peace

Brother Sunship, I could not in wildest dreams have put it better - and I wont try(smile!)

One thing I am so sick and tired of with our youth and our adults, is this tendency toward attempting to make what is terrible a good thing... It is like the con artist who thinks himself so much smarter than everyone else, that he can convince you that it's rain he's pissin' on your head... They play none so blind as themselves...


Peace!
Isaiah

Though Tupac had talent, presence and a sort kind of charisma, let's be clear...Black men have been writing and singing about the white man’s world, Brenda’s baby and praising their mama for centuries. It’s sad that the Rap world has degenerated Black culture, prose and music so bad that when a Hip Hop artist is not talking about unadulterated sex and violence he’s hailed as revolutionary icon or an avenger of Black suffering.

The so-called Gangsta’ rap industry (and I do mean industry) has exploited certain destructive and dysfunctional aspects of urban life and created more disturbed and genocidal thinkers amongst our youth than was already present.

There is nothing in the water or food in the Black community that makes a person more murderous in the inner city, than a small town in Mississippi, regardless if it’s the West coast, Chicago, Houston, New Orleans or New York. If suffering and hard times are the producers of fratricidal anti-social behavior amongst our people than we should have been “gang bangin’” in the deep Jim Crow south long before our migrations to the urban reality.

Most people who listen to and buy into the Gangsta’ rap industry are seduced by realities that they have never experienced or could really relate to, so sometimes they try to recreate these romanticized realities of violence and genocidal lifestyles (real or imagined) to validate their new-found “Ghetto-ness” or “Thug-ness”; and they realize the best ways to do that is to harm or destroy somebody Black, debase Black women, degrade the Black reality and/or sell poison (dope) to their own people.

I still have rarely, if ever, heard conscious prose on par with Umar Bin Hassan (Last Poets), Kamau Daaood, Nikki Giovanni, Langston Hughes or Amiri Baraka come out of the Rap or Hip Hop world.

It’s one thing to be played, but it’s another thing to play your self.

Peace

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

This is an interesting commen in regards to "I still have rarly, if ever, heard conscious prose on par with...."

Considering how long the above poets have been influential in the Black Arts movement this most likely will not change. However, in the case of Kamau Daoud, he has worked with hip-hop artsits in the Leimert Park area and the same can be said of brother Amde and the Watts Prophets...

I have not heard any POETS "on par" with these LEGENDS with the lone exception of Saul Wiliams, who also is known for colaborating with positive hip-hop artists..

Though Tupac had talent, presence and a sort kind of charisma, let's be clear...Black men have been writing and singing about the white man’s world, Brenda’s baby and praising their mama for centuries. It’s sad that the Rap world has degenerated Black culture, prose and music so bad that when a Hip Hop artist is not talking about unadulterated sex and violence he’s hailed as revolutionary icon or an avenger of Black suffering.

The so-called Gangsta’ rap industry (and I do mean industry) has exploited certain destructive and dysfunctional aspects of urban life and created more disturbed and genocidal thinkers amongst our youth than was already present.

There is nothing in the water or food in the Black community that makes a person more murderous in the inner city, than a small town in Mississippi, regardless if it’s the West coast, Chicago, Houston, New Orleans or New York. If suffering and hard times are the producers of fratricidal anti-social behavior amongst our people than we should have been “gang bangin’” in the deep Jim Crow south long before our migrations to the urban reality.

Most people who listen to and buy into the Gangsta’ rap industry are seduced by realities that they have never experienced or could really relate to, so sometimes they try to recreate these romanticized realities of violence and genocidal lifestyles (real or imagined) to validate their new-found “Ghetto-ness” or “Thug-ness”; and they realize the best ways to do that is to harm or destroy somebody Black, debase Black women, degrade the Black reality and/or sell poison (dope) to their own people.

I still have rarely, if ever, heard conscious prose on par with Umar Bin Hassan (Last Poets), Kamau Daaood, Nikki Giovanni, Langston Hughes or Amiri Baraka come out of the Rap or Hip Hop world.

It’s one thing to be played, but it’s another thing to play your self.

Peace

exactly what have you heard when it comes to conscious hip hop? i think you are dead wrong top suggest there are no conscious rappers on point about society these days. id put saul williams with baraka, id put talib kweli with langston hughs. if you listen to these rappers they praise the older generation of poets.

Hip hop is a different style of poetry then what is practiced the people you mentioned. remember even conscious rap is battle based. meaning you have to prove your skills first and foremost. you have to exhibit ability to lyrically do what hasnt been done, you have to come up with punch lines and similies never before heard. so this is mixed in with a positive message. an emcee like krs 1 might be to harsh (profain words or violent analogies) for some listeners mainly baby boomer type. but the attack style and violent verbal assault comes from battle based rhyming which hip hop is.

Ain't that something...

I been wondering if it wasn't something in the drinking water over there in the United Snakes... My acting all rabid and crazy, must be this Dream that everybody is running after.

One,

- Ikoro