I'm a relatively new member here - this is a wonderful place in so many ways.

However, my primary goal has always been to do something that makes a difference outside of just partaking of the knowledge and sharing that goes on here.

Brother Ibrahim and others have mentioned maybe a business could be spawned by Destee community, and a very similar concept was put forth in last week's brothers only chat.

That said it appears to me in my short stay here a MAJOR obstacle is TRUST.

I could be wrong, but from my vantage point it seems like there is heavy suspicion between members based on what seem to be surface differences in political philosophy.

How can this trust be strengthened? Can it be strengthened enough in an online setting to support a collective business or institution that reaches outside of Destee?

Kemetkind

Trust is a major factor.

You can't even disagree with some people without being seen as an enemy or an "agent" trying to cause disruption.
And indeed there are agents and disruptors who will try to throw a monkey wrench in any meaningful program.


Another factor is basic respect and civility towards eachother.

We have to learn how to put our differences aside and agree to disagree on some issues for the greater good of the project and goal instead of carrying permanent grudges around and animosity in our hearts.

From some of the conflicts I've witness on the internet I could only imagine what would happen if they were played out in real life where people have access to guns and knives.

Trust, respect, and sacrifice are the keys to us coming together and doing something.

Possibly....I would think that is something which could materialze whenever there is a "Destee Family Reunion"

However, suspicion...lack of trust...these are common obstacles even among the most progressive minded considering how Black organizations and movements have historically been infiltrated and disrupted..



I didn't think of that. When is the next one?

I'm just wondering can we brainstorm some way to "legitimize" people so when we come to the table with disagreements - which you will never get around in ANY organization - we can at least have a base level of respect and trust in knowing we're all wanting the same goals.

SOME Black fraternities and sororities have rigorous pledge process to instill this trust and loyalty, gangs do the same thing. We obviously don't have that option but it seems like we need SOMETHING because us just saying we need to respect each other and work collectively isn't enough to make a difference.

Do you think meeting up in person will make the difference?

Maybe people from nearby areas can go ahead and start linking up to build on the ideas we come up with?

I'm a relatively new member here - this is a wonderful place in so many ways.

However, my primary goal has always been to do something that makes a difference outside of just partaking of the knowledge and sharing that goes on here.

Brother Ibrahim and others have mentioned maybe a business could be spawned by Destee community, and a very similar concept was put forth in last week's brothers only chat.

That said it appears to me in my short stay here a MAJOR obstacle is TRUST.

I could be wrong, but from my vantage point it seems like there is heavy suspicion between members based on what seem to be surface differences in political philosophy.

How can this trust be strengthened? Can it be strengthened enough in an online setting to support a collective business or institution that reaches outside of Destee?

Brother Kemetkind ... i have seen Brother Ibrahim's thread, but was not privy to the discussion that took place during Brother's Only Chat, but i do know a little about the trust issue you present.

That major obstacle, trust, or lack thereof, is probably something that is present (to some degree or another) where ever we come together. It seems to be built into us, but i know that's not true. I know it is because of all the conditioning we've experienced ... taught not to trust each other, further encouraged by personal bad experiences with a Sister or Brother, and the fact that a Sister or Brother doesn't think exactly like we do. Yes, i believe the conditioning we have all been subject to, plays a part, but we also bring our own personal fears to the table with us.

Is there any Black organization, working for the betterment of our people, under the system of white supremacy ... that doesn't meet everyone who enters ... with a healthy sense of cautiousness? Based on history, any of us doing such work, would be foolish to not be wise regarding such things. The challenge here, is to limit that cautiousness to a healthy level for the growth of the organization. Limiting it in such a way, as to not throw out the baby with the bathwater. How much experience do each of us have, in determining who is for or against us, while actually having any amount of real control in managing it? For those who have this type of experience, i'm sure you'll agree, it's not the easiest thing to do.

There have been a few times over the years, where a Member's identity, agenda, etc., have been wrongly questioned. It has happened, and i'm sure it will happen again. For some, this is the first time they've had the opportunity to come together under a roof that houses so many diverse, intelligent, opposing, and sound arguments regarding issues we've all pondered. This alone will cause us to question whether we can trust someone. For example (and there are many, but this one easily illustrates what i'm saying), how can a Muslim truly trust a Christian, and vice versa? This is what we're taught. Sisters and Brothers, their foundations of life, diametrically opposed. This is what is in us. So we should not be surprised when that which is in us, comes out.

Brother Kemetkind ... for me, this community is that place where we can come and have these discussions. We can learn what another Sister or Brother is experiencing, thinking, believing, etc., and compare notes. When i started this community, there weren't a lot of places on the Internet, that catered to us in a positive manner. My goal was to prove that those who say we can't come together peacefully and respectfully, are liars. These things have now been accomplished.

Now that this place is here, and has been for some time, i see other things we need to master. One of them is us actually trusting each other. Us being the Sister or Brother we claim to be. Us being willing to leave a little room for error, giving our Sister or Brother the benefit of the doubt, credit that they may possibly present information you did not know. Us remembering that those we talk with here, are not the enemy. Without this place being here, i may never have (to the same degree) been aware of these other challenges. This process (this community) is like walking up steps. We get past one step, only to find another there, growing stronger as we climb each one. I believe this improvement, gaining of strength, is a never-ending process. We should not let what is found on that next step, stop us from moving on up the mountain.

What ever can come as a result of this place being here, i'm all for it. I know i've not put any ideas on the table regarding what can be done outside of this place, in addition to this place, etc., because my challenge is just to keep this place here ... but know ... i am more than willing to do all i can to help any positive effort initiated from our home.

This topic, trust, is like so many others that i try to be. I try to be trustworthy. I try to present myself in a manner that makes it easy for people to trust me. I try to be real, honest, and carry myself in such a way that every Member knows, they can trust me. I put my whole heart on the table, everything out in the open, in an effort to facilitate the trust you speak of. I give a certain amount of trust, to every Member that joins us. I trust what they tell me. Once i find out that trust has been violated, it is no longer given. Fortunately for me, that hasn't happened often. This returns me to my often said comment, it all begins with self.

I'm no expert at creating trust. I don't know how to make it be present for every single person, other than suggest, that every single person be truthful and trustworthy. As i type this, i'm wondering about those organizations before us, or that are going on right now, and mastered this trust issue. How did they do it? How did the UNIA, NOI, BPP, BLA, etc., overcome the issue of trust within their organizations?

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

I always think that meeting folks in person makes a difference. The internet is very impersonal at times and I guarantee one thing..Folks can talk a whole lot of smack on the net that they dare not speak in person..


I second that. I was thinking the same thing earlier today. I know words would definitely be chosen more carefully when you close enough to be touched up. I guess the trick is figuring out how to instill that same feeling on the net...or better yet having a method we could know the difference between an instigator who should be ignored and a fellow brother who is willing to work towards the same goals we are...maybe I'm the one being unrealistic on this one.

Destee

There have been a few times over the years, where a Member's identity, agenda, etc., have been wrongly questioned. It has happened, and i'm sure it will happen again. For some, this is the first time they've had the opportunity to come together under a roof that houses so many diverse, intelligent, opposing, and sound arguments regarding issues we've all pondered. This alone will cause us to question whether we can trust someone. For example (and there are many, but this one easily illustrates what i'm saying), how can a Muslim truly trust a Christian, and vice versa? This is what we're taught. Sisters and Brothers, their foundations of life, diametrically opposed. This is what is in us. So we should not be surprised when that which is in us, comes out.
Personally speaking, as adamant as I am on certain religious and moral issues, religion is NO ostabtacle what so ever for me when it comes to working with individuals.

I've met many other Muslims who've given me a hard time for not following certain rules, coming from a different school of thought, or being of a different nationality....while I met those who are Christian or don't even believe in religion who share most of my views politically and we get along together excellently....so I don't use religion as a basis for unity.

I believe in the strict separation between church and state and uniting on political values.

Brother Kemetkind ... i have seen Brother Ibrahim's thread, but was not privy to the discussion that took place during Brother's Only Chat, but i do know a little about the trust issue you present.

That major obstacle, trust, or lack thereof, is probably something that is present (to some degree or another) where ever we come together. It seems to be built into us, but i know that's not true. I know it is because of all the conditioning we've experienced ... taught not to trust each other, further encouraged by personal bad experiences with a Sister or Brother, and the fact that a Sister or Brother doesn't think exactly like we do. Yes, i believe the conditioning we have all been subject to, plays a part, but we also bring our own personal fears to the table with us.

Is there any Black organization, working for the betterment of our people, under the system of white supremacy ... that doesn't meet everyone who enters ... with a healthy sense of cautiousness? Based on history, any of us doing such work, would be foolish to not be wise regarding such things. The challenge here, is to limit that cautiousness to a healthy level for the growth of the organization. Limiting it in such a way, as to not throw out the baby with the bathwater. How much experience do each of us have, in determining who is for or against us, while actually having any amount of real control in managing it? For those who have this type of experience, i'm sure you'll agree, it's not the easiest thing to do.

There have been a few times over the years, where a Member's identity, agenda, etc., have been wrongly questioned. It has happened, and i'm sure it will happen again. For some, this is the first time they've had the opportunity to come together under a roof that houses so many diverse, intelligent, opposing, and sound arguments regarding issues we've all pondered. This alone will cause us to question whether we can trust someone. For example (and there are many, but this one easily illustrates what i'm saying), how can a Muslim truly trust a Christian, and vice versa? This is what we're taught. Sisters and Brothers, their foundations of life, diametrically opposed. This is what is in us. So we should not be surprised when that which is in us, comes out.

Brother Kemetkind ... for me, this community is that place where we can come and have these discussions. We can learn what another Sister or Brother is experiencing, thinking, believing, etc., and compare notes. When i started this community, there weren't a lot of places on the Internet, that catered to us in a positive manner. My goal was to prove that those who say we can't come together peacefully and respectfully, are liars. These things have now been accomplished.

Now that this place is here, and has been for some time, i see other things we need to master. One of them is us actually trusting each other. Us being the Sister or Brother we claim to be. Us being willing to leave a little room for error, giving our Sister or Brother the benefit of the doubt, credit that they may possibly present information you did not know. Us remembering that those we talk with here, are not the enemy. Without this place being here, i may never have (to the same degree) been aware of these other challenges. This process (this community) is like walking up steps. We get past one step, only to find another there, growing stronger as we climb each one. I believe this improvement, gaining of strength, is a never-ending process. We should not let what is found on that next step, stop us from moving on up the mountain.

What ever can come as a result of this place being here, i'm all for it. I know i've not put any ideas on the table regarding what can be done outside of this place, in addition to this place, etc., because my challenge is just to keep this place here ... but know ... i am more than willing to do all i can to help any positive effort initiated from our home.

This topic, trust, is like so many others that i try to be. I try to be trustworthy. I try to present myself in a manner that makes it easy for people to trust me. I try to be real, honest, and carry myself in such a way that every Member knows, they can trust me. I put my whole heart on the table, everything out in the open, in an effort to facilitate the trust you speak of. I give a certain amount of trust, to every Member that joins us. I trust what they tell me. Once i find out that trust has been violated, it is no longer given. Fortunately for me, that hasn't happened often. This returns me to my often said comment, it all begins with self.

I'm no expert at creating trust. I don't know how to make it be present for every single person, other than suggest, that every single person be truthful and trustworthy. As i type this, i'm wondering about those organizations before us, or that are going on right now, and mastered this trust issue. How did they do it? How did the UNIA, NOI, BPP, BLA, etc., overcome the issue of trust within their organizations?

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee


Truly a beautiful response. I've looked around - you've been holding this ship down for quite a long time and I can only imagine the energy, sacrifices and wisdom that must've gone into making it work.

I salute you sister Destee - if there is such a thing as a web community with a guiding matriarch you are her.

I don't have any answer to the unity question, especially for a community organized online. Seems like a concentration of powerful minds here - surely we can come up with something.

Trust is the deep gap between us but i'm sure if each body hold
an trustworthy mind and heart we could close the gap in the bridge
we have to unify ourselves and believe in the next brutha or sista .

Not everyone will bend to that concept or feel that way for trust is huge.

Truly a beautiful response. I've looked around - you've been holding this ship down for quite a long time and I can only imagine the energy, sacrifices and wisdom that must've gone into making it work.

I salute you sister Destee - if there is such a thing as a web community with a guiding matriarch you are her.

Brother Kemetkind ... such a kind thing for you to say ... thank you, i'm honored ... :love:


I don't have any answer to the unity question, especially for a community organized online. Seems like a concentration of powerful minds here - surely we can come up with something.

It's been mentioned in this thread a time or two, suggesting that our meeting in person will somehow provide a guarantee that we can't be done, that our trust won't be violated. If that were true, all of the organizations before us ... before the Internet ... would not have had this same challenge. Often, such things are only revealed with the passing of time.

The thing about trust, is that there are no guarantees. If someone wants to violate your trust, they're gonna do that. All that is required is time. You don't have to do anything, to make someone be their own self. I do think though, that hard evidence is required to bring a case. Suspicion alone, is not enough. That's what they do to us, we don't need to do it too.

My request to the Family is ... if you can't trust anyone else, please trust me. Trust that i'd not let anyone remain in our midst, if i believed for one minute, they meant us harm. Trust that i hear your concerns, and am watching, giving every Member the same consideration i'd give you.

Uniting is our goal, which we are doing, and must be kept in the forefront of our thoughts.

Brother Kemetkind ... again, thank you for the kind words.

i love yall and i trust us! :love:

:heart:

Destee

A good saying , if you wash cloths and leave them wet they will
drip all over the place but if you ring them out they will become dry

I believe there is more then enough here once we learn to respect
each other in many ways to name.

I say yes it is , the true question is how many are willing to do that ?

Can anyone help me out with this? I'm tryna find out whether or not this idea has ever been addressed before?

Beloved Sistah-

I will tell you that I thought of something like this - but after 'thinking outside the box' and considering the +'s vs. -'s, I thought it would take more thought. Me, personally, I am much smarter than some would think, and that being said, due to what I have witnessed over time, I refuse to bring forth those +'s and -'s. However, the best I could recommend to you is to take a closer look at that. Keep in mind that you will come up with +'s and -'s. I don't know if I mentioned this earlier, but although I am not saying it's a good idea, I am not saying it's a bad idea either. As a matter of fact, i'm trying to eliminate the -'s so that I can bring forth a + proposition to the Family.

That's just me! I mean yall have minds of your own, so take the time to consider that on your leisure. I remember in when we came together in Chat (I think it was this past weekend), I mentioned ORGANIZATION. That is one of the things involved in doing such what you suggested (which is from my Understanding...a Book Series?)

Think about that, then get back in touch.

CD06

sista aglo , I would humble say yes it have came about but never
took into a consideration , at that time if not mistaken destee didn't
want to be put in that disposition.

I strongly think we need to collectively find ourselves and help ourselves
before we could truely reach out to help beyond the community.............

Well Brothas,

I have thought it through, and I believe that this is a viable project. Sista Destee would have total power. As far as us members, either we get approached to participate or not. Either we give legal permission or not. If done legally with all stipulations laid out beforehand, I don't see how this couldn't work.

Sista Destee wouldn't need a consensus to do this. If we wait for that, we'll be waiting forever. That is obviously NEVER going to happen. This site is a virtual microcosm of our real community. And just as in our real community, some will do while others will either talk about doing or even go so far as to try to tear down those that do. I've always been a DO-er.

Please let me know what I can contribute to any future collaborative efforts!

Peace, Fam!

-Aglo

Well with this being said, I absolutely could not argue this! I will move with you!

CD

Well Brothas,

I have thought it through, and I believe that this is a viable project. Sista Destee would have total power. As far as us members, either we get approached to participate or not. Either we give legal permission or not. If done legally with all stipulations laid out beforehand, I don't see how this couldn't work.

Sista Destee wouldn't need a consensus to do this. If we wait for that, we'll be waiting forever. That is obviously NEVER going to happen. This site is a virtual microcosm of our real community. And just as in our real community, some will do while others will either talk about doing or even go so far as to try to tear down those that do. I've always been a DO-er.

Please let me know what I can contribute to any future collaborative efforts!

Peace, Fam!

-Aglo

I think there is a good core of people here who would rather do action than do talk...when that chorus gets loud enough, we'll make some things happen.

Sister aglo,

this link is for you:
http://www.studentgroups.ucla.edu/aep/

Brotha O,

Awww! Remindes me of my days at RU--grassrootin'! This is what I plan to do, reach into those colleges! Who has more time and energy and access to resources than college students?! It won't be easy nowadays, though.

These students are different than we were in the 90's. They are so materialistic and self-centered. Maybe I can talk to a few professors and see if they'll offer community service opportunities as part of class credit. That's what one of my professors did. We went out to local highschools and did improv and held q&a after each show. It was beautiful!

Thanks for the info!
Sister aglo,

The link I provided is to a project I was instrumental in creating around 1981. I hand wrote the first grant proposals. Worked with two undergraduate SISTERS and a graduate advisor from South Africa (Tim Ngubeni) and we started showing fiilms on apartheid in local independent Black schools and high schools. Later started sponsoring speaker tours. Then started doing outreach and gang intervention. That led to work in the projects in Watts and Compton. 25 years later the AEP has a cadre of young Black women still taking education to the youth in the CPT.

The program was modeled after the community service programs of the Black Consciousness Movement, of which brother Tim was a key organizer. We worked to institutionalize this and other CPO's at UCLA and later set up Academic Support, Recruitment and Retention programs. Since the universities eliminated early outreach programs we did our own early outreach but focused on student retention so that we would have more CPO Director's at the undergraduate and later graduate/professional level.

I provided the link as an example of my own involvement but also as a NETWORKING LINK for whatever work you plan on doing. One of our former AEP directors now works for Tyra Bank's T-ZONE Foundation which has a "camp" program for young inner city women...

www.tzonefoundation.org (http://www.tzonefoundation.org)


-Note: Sorry, T-Zone no longer is offering camps but check the site for program information anyway..