I see a common assumption in both Christian and kamitic cosmology/philosophy that raises some quiestions in my mind. These questions will bring some interesting discussions (I hope) though maybe not a conclusive answer.

The assumption I speak of is the idea that what we do in our physical life has an influence on what we will experience in our non physical life. That is as my be yet never have i seen it suggested that what we do in our non physical life may influence the hand we are dealt in our physical existance. In fact, we speak of it as the after life--a kind of intermediate period or limbo where we sit tight while the scales are weighed.

It's pretty obvious why Christianity doesn't consider the influence of the non physical life on the physical life because they don't have a tradition of believing in reincarnatio (even though the bible itself teaches reincarnation at least in the case of John the Baptist whom Jesus told his disciples was actually Elijah). However, since the kamau and other ATRs do acknowledge reincarnation is there no concommitant teaching that our present life in the physical plane is influenced by our deeds in the non physical? I say non physical rather than astral since the astral plane is a part of the lower Sahu level of the spirit.

Hmmm? Nobody wanted to tackle this one. Well maybe I should clarify it a little so it won't seem so loaded.

I am not saying that if we have a hard life it is some punishment for evils we've done in the spiritual world. Hard lives often produce strong characters and would not be suitable as punishment but rather as polish and refinement. I am trying to establish a thread that runs through our existance linking all our carnations into one purposeful destiny.

That which does not kill me makes me stronger, but that which kills me does not destroy my strength for I take it with me as I go forth my day. So when we seek our carnation objective are we trying to guess a priori or are we trying to remember?

Hmmm? Nobody wanted to tackle this one. Well maybe I should clarify it a little so it won't seem so loaded.

I am not saying that if we have a hard life it is some punishment for evils we've done in the spiritual world. Hard lives often produce strong characters and would not be suitable as punishment but rather as polish and refinement. I am trying to establish a thread that runs through our existance linking all our carnations into one purposeful destiny.

That which does not kill me makes me stronger, but that which kills me does not destroy my strength for I take it with me as I go forth my day. So when we seek our carnation objective are we trying to guess a priori or are we trying to remember?

So when we seek our carnation objection are we trying to guess a priori or are we trying to remember We are trying to remember what we need to do to put us back on the path that will lead us to the elimination of suffering (carnations) . This is typically done by the soul signing a "contract" to resolve old karmic debts.

We are trying to remember what we need to do to put us back on the path that will lead us to the elimination of suffering (carnations) . This is typically done by the soul signing a "contract" to resolve old karmic debts.
Are you saying that our carnations are themselves sufferings which must be eliminated? That when we have settled these debts we will no longer exist in this world (at least not as physical beings)?

I see a common assumption in both Christian and kamitic cosmology/philosophy that raises some quiestions in my mind. These questions will bring some interesting discussions (I hope) though maybe not a conclusive answer.

The assumption I speak of is the idea that what we do in our physical life has an influence on what we will experience in our non physical life. That is as my be yet never have i seen it suggested that what we do in our non physical life may influence the hand we are dealt in our physical existance. In fact, we speak of it as the after life--a kind of intermediate period or limbo where we sit tight while the scales are weighed.

It's pretty obvious why Christianity doesn't consider the influence of the non physical life on the physical life because they don't have a tradition of believing in reincarnatio (even though the bible itself teaches reincarnation at least in the case of John the Baptist whom Jesus told his disciples was actually Elijah). However, since the kamau and other ATRs do acknowledge reincarnation is there no concommitant teaching that our present life in the physical plane is influenced by our deeds in the non physical? I say non physical rather than astral since the astral plane is a part of the lower Sahu level of the spirit.

The non-physical and the physical are interconnected even if we cannot realize how they are in this plane.

And on some level, I believe certain problems we have are influenced by things we did in previous lives. This does not necessarily mean "rich = good life", "poor = bad life." That in itself is not a spiritual concept, because you can have a fulfilled life and be poor. It can mean, however, that a spirit that was selfish or even evil in a past life chose to take a more difficult path in this life to help redeem themselves and move to the next level. But that's not to say that all people in difficult situations were evil... a good spirit could choose a harsher path because they want to grow more.

Are you saying that our carnations are themselves sufferings which must be eliminated? That when we have settled these debts we will no longer exist in this world (at least not as physical beings)?

Hmm. This is an interesting question.

In my opinion it is not a matter of us being flawed... it's a matter of us wanting to grow. I'm not sure even if we get to be like figures such as Jesus or Buddha that we would stop growing.

So I would say we wouldn't stop to exist if we decided not to reincarnate because we would 'grow' in whatever non-physical world we are in at the time.

Are you saying that our carnations are themselves sufferings which must be eliminated? That when we have settled these debts we will no longer exist in this world (at least not as physical beings)?


From what I have been taught one ceases to exist in the PHYSICAL realm when karmic debts are fulfilled and one reaches the level of an ARHAT.

Are you saying that our carnations are themselves sufferings which must be eliminated? That when we have settled these debts we will no longer exist in this world (at least not as physical beings)?

Precisely!

Where did we incur these debts? From things we have done in the spirit plane? It would seem that way since if they are debts incurred from past incarnations then what was the purpose of the first incarnation? Then again, if they were incurred in the spirit plane why can't they be paid there?

Man, I was in my bed when this came to me and I couldn't let it sit til morning lest I forget.

when I think of a kharmic debt I think of *** for tat - because you did this I'm gonna do that.

This doesn't result in justice. This results in an endless spiral of payback that is never paid in full. so I did something to you to pay you back for something you did to somebody to pay them back and now someone has to pay me back for what I did to you. The sun will go nova before even one of us has fully paid up in this fashion.

The kharmic debt cannot be paid by payback but by love and forgiveness. When I release someone from debt I release myself from debt and allow both of us and the person who would have had to pay me back to instead return an act of love and live in righteous deeds according to the law of God. That's why Maat is both the Goddess of law and of love.

The Apostle James tells us "He who shows no mercy will be judged wihout mercy, but mercy rejoices against judgement."

I know that mercy accompanies any judgement against me because I have shown mercy. Goodness and mercy follow me. I don't have to seek for them.

Negative kharma will see to it that my enemies come to justice. I will not put myself in the mix by returning that negativity.

Now, that said I'm going back to bed.

G'nite.

I didn't know ancestral African religions taught re-incarnation.

I know they teach spirits survive death and heavily influence the lives of the living.
I also know they teach that spirits can even posses and inhabit living bodies.

But I didn't know they taught re-incarnation of the actual person.


The Hindus teach re-incarnation.

The upper-classes of the caste (varna) system are considered "twice born" while the dark skinned slaves and un-touchables were considered only "once born".

The Aryans told the dark skinned Dravidians that in order for them to be clean they have to accept their subordinate role so when they die they may be re-incarnated into a better caste....and white!

Where did we incur these debts? From things we have done in the spirit plane? It would seem that way since if they are debts incurred from past incarnations then what was the purpose of the first incarnation? Then again, if they were incurred in the spirit plane why can't they be paid there?

Ahhhh! Excellent question. Long story short, we incured this debt when the physical "world" was created. When we "fell" into the physical realm. I'll go into more detail about this a little later sistah.

Man, I was in my bed when this came to me and I couldn't let it sit til morning lest I forget.

when I think of a kharmic debt I think of *** for tat - because you did this I'm gonna do that.

This doesn't result in justice. This results in an endless spiral of payback that is never paid in full. so I did something to you to pay you back for something you did to somebody to pay them back and now someone has to pay me back for what I did to you. The sun will go nova before even one of us has fully paid up in this fashion.

The kharmic debt cannot be paid by payback but by love and forgiveness. When I release someone from debt I release myself from debt and allow both of us and the person who would have had to pay me back to instead return an act of love and live in righteous deeds according to the law of God. That's why Maat is both the Goddess of law and of love.

The Apostle James tells us "He who shows no mercy will be judged wihout mercy, but mercy rejoices against judgement."

I know that mercy accompanies any judgement against me because I have shown mercy. Goodness and mercy follow me. I don't have to seek for them.

Negative kharma will see to it that my enemies come to justice. I will not put myself in the mix by returning that negativity.

Now, that said I'm going back to bed.

G'nite.

Negative Kharma will see to it that my enemies come to justice. I wil not put myself in the mix by returning that negativity and this is precisely what seperates Traditional African Spiritual systems from Missionary religions.

Our Oracles knew that even with the warnings that were given to us, the dye was cast. This being the case, I would imagine many a king felt helpless to do anything about it.

I didn't know ancestral African religions taught re-incarnation.

I know they teach spirits survive death and heavily influence the lives of the living.
I also know they teach that spirits can even posses and inhabit living bodies.

But I didn't know they taught re-incarnation of the actual person.


The Hindus teach re-incarnation.

The upper-classes of the caste (varna) system are considered "twice born" while the dark skinned slaves and un-touchables were considered only "once born".

The Aryans told the dark skinned Dravidians that in order for them to be clean they have to accept their subordinate role so when they die they may be re-incarnated into a better caste....and white!
That the Aryans would twist reincarnation to use it against the Dravidians is not surprising at all. That they came up with it is doubtful. The white race is not known for its creativity but for its corruption of what the Black race creates.

We should not give up our heritage everytime the white man decides to co opt something.

and this is precisely what seperates Traditional African Spiritual systems from Missionary religions.

Our Oracles knew that even with the warnings that were given to us, the dye was cast. This being the case, I would imagine many a king felt helpless to do anything about it.
The good die young or so the saying goes. But I don't think Herukhuti ties the hands of kings who have a responsibility to protect their people and when they don't that's where they incur a debt.

Are they then dambed if they do and dambed if they don't? No because it's not a choice between negative kharma and positive kharma. It's a choice between two negative kharmas. Their reponsibilities as kings exempts them from incurring debt when they carry that responsibility out. Unfortunately, many of them chose to wring their hands in frustration rather than use their brains.