In my opinion

The fetus is a person, but it is neither conscious or has sensations. In order to develop these faculties it must be born, and even then these faculties are very limited. Since the fetus is a person who is unaware, it has no preference to life or death, because it is not even aware it exists. So since no preference exists from the perspective of the fetus, the decision is up to that of the mother.
Think of it this way, imagine killing someone in their sleep except the person has never been awake to form beliefs et cetera. Killing them makes no difference to the 'sleeping beauty' because they do not even realize they are alive, so likewise we should be able to kill the fetus.
In short if a fetus is a person it does not have any of the qualities we normally look for in a person, therefore, it does not need the same consideration as conscious, self aware, feeling people.

what do you think ?

In my opinion

The fetus is a person, but it is neither conscious or has sensations. In order to develop these faculties it must be born, and even then these faculties are very limited. Since the fetus is a person who is unaware, it has no preference to life or death, because it is not even aware it exists. So since no preference exists from the perspective of the fetus, the decision is up to that of the mother.
Think of it this way, imagine killing someone in their sleep except the person has never been awake to form beliefs et cetera. Killing them makes no difference to the 'sleeping beauty' because they do not even realize they are alive, so likewise we should be able to kill the fetus.
In short if a fetus is a person it does not have any of the qualities we normally look for in a person, therefore, it does not need the same consideration as conscious, self aware, feeling people.

what do you think ?

I agree partially. In the very early stages of life, when a person is a zygote, they are nothing more than a bunch of cells. They do have a bit of a human form, but without a developed brain, whose to say that they can feel pain and be aware like a normal baby?

However, in the latter months of the pregnancy, (starting as early as 4), the fetus starts to look more human and does appear to have some awareness. In fact there have been premies born at around 5 months that have survived infancy. My brother was born at 6 months... me at 7. If my mom had the attitude that we were not people because we weren't 9 months, my brother and I would not be here today!

But anyway, as far as abortion... in my personal opinion it is not as bad if it is done when the fetus is a zygote... 1 to 3 months (this is when most abortions are done anyway). If it's done later, then it needs to be for a good reason, like if the child is deformed in such a way that they can't have a good quality of life, or they have a deadly condition in which they will die out of the womb anyway. And since the child is more aware, measures need to be taken so that they won't feel pain!

Abortion is murder no ifs and or buts about it...the only way i wouldnt really have a problem is if the mother was raped,all that other sh** is a bunch of bull crap! :peace:

I second that. If a woman can go and get an abortion, why should I spend time in jail for taking another man's life that is walking down the street? If I were to do so, I mean. No woman, no man, should have the right to make a decision as to whether or not another human life gets to live or not.

To say that a person becomes more human during the 4th and 5th months and thereby making it more inhumane to abort them is very odd.

Seasons neither begin nor end, but change. Likewise, it is the same with all life.

therefore, it does not need the same consideration as conscious, self aware, feeling people.

what do you think ?

Kaguvi ... Hello and Welcome ... :wave:

It could be said that many who have been born, are unconscious, not aware, or feeling people.

Is it okay to kill them too ... i mean ... if this is the criteria?

Please make yourself at home, because you are.

:heart:

Destee

Welcom Kaguvi!

I was going to respond to this earlier, but I got sidetracked. Anyway, I think it depends on the individual. I'm not for it and I'm not strongly against it either. There are many factors that play into someone decision to abort. Like being able to provide, being to young, and/or being able to live with the fact, you have a child somewhere that you put up for adoption.

As for myself, it was the wrong decision for me, it broke my heart to go through that procedure. From the moment of conception, I felt and knew I was pregnant. I immediately felt a connection to the fetus. I wouldn't say that it doesn't know of it's being. Scientist doesn't know or understand everything. From the time sperm enters the womb, the race to survive is on. I just can't fanthom that, as it not knowing it wants to live/be.

I can't say if it's right our wrong for anyone else to abort, I know it just wasn't right for me. Sometimes we just don't know who we are until we experience certain things. One thing I do know, I should have put more thought into the possible outcome of my decision to have sex. Abortion shouldn't be taken for granted, or as a means of preventing unwanted children. The best thing for this, is protecting yourself from the very beginning.

As for the women who are sexually assualted, I can imagine the pain they feel when making this decision. Its one thing to abort a child from your own negligence. Its another thing having to make this decision, when you aren't responsible from the jump start.

Abortion shouldn't be the alternative, but protecting yourself from the beginning should.

315 dollars aint worth your soul=Common

Life is on the bottom of the totem pole in amerikkka **** shame...

I don't think life is at the bottom of the totem pole Sis. Life can be is very difficult for many. Some can barely make it, let alone bring a new life into this world. Have you seen the statics for suicide?

Theres this saying, " If I can do it, so can you." I find that statement not to be loo% true. Everyone is functioning at different mental levels. What might work for you, maynot work for me. Simple because my method of dealing with it, have not reached the capacity of the way you deal with certain situations.

Life is beautiful, but some just don't know how to find that beauty.

Where there's blood......there's life:nono:

I don't think life is at the bottom of the totem pole Sis. Life can be is very difficult for many. Some can barely make it, let alone bring a new life into this world. Have you seen the statics for suicide?

Theres this saying, " If I can do it, so can you." I find that statement not to be loo% true. Everyone is functioning at different mental levels. What might work for you, maynot work for me. Simple because my method of dealing with it, have not reached the capacity of the way you deal with certain situations.

Life is beautiful, but some just don't know how to find that beauty.
Yes I know all about suicide very very personally... They should use condoms..that line about barely making it yet bring a new life into this world..is a bunch of crap...condoms are free at the clinic..hell they are cheaper than abortions!! wtf...no excuses!

So, you feel it's okay to restrict the rights of anothers body? The restrictions won't stop there Sis. The more they take, the more they'll want. Before you know it, a person won't have any rights left.

The abortion issue is about more then the preserverance of life. It's also about restricting the rights of a persons body. The way I see it, it's still taking away someones life. If a person is forced to bear an unwanted child, I can see the child abuse rate rising. Many children who get placed into child services, still won't get adopted and end up being neglected too. We've been this route before already. Thats why abortions became legal.

We can say all day what a person should do and not do, but still people will
do as they feel. Abortions won't stop, they'll just be hidden, and the death of women with child, will rise again.

I guess...

I know Sis, it's a hard call. Exspecially for people who are as passionate about life, like yourself. Hopefully people will become more aware of their actions and choose to prevent unwanted pregnancy by practices some type of birth control.

Yes I know all about suicide very very personally... They should use condoms..that line about barely making it yet bring a new life into this world..is a bunch of crap...condoms are free at the clinic..hell they are cheaper than abortions!! wtf...no excuses!

Sister Nisa ... you're sounding hostile ... QQ

It's okay Sister. You don't ever have to have an abortion, or answer for the Sisters that do.

:heart:

Destee

I've always thought this was a very personnal issue. As far as my thoughts on the subject, I've always thought abortions should be kept legal. With restrictions after the 3rd month.

I've always been for abortion because of all the irresponsible people running around, but I'm starting to change my view on it. I think the abortion process is a strategic plan to dispose of poor people and people of color, since the majority of abortion clinics are in poor areas and areas where there are a lot of non-white people. It would be nice if everyone could afford kids in the event of a pregnancy, but that's not the case. Some people need alternatives because no one is going to stop having unprotected sex. I think giving the baby up for adoption is a better choice. I think woman that choose abortion do it because it's easier than forming a bond with the baby, then giving it up for adoption. Maybe if more women chose to do the adoption thing, they would change their mind about keeping the baby and realize that they could use their finances in a way that would allow them to afford the child. But I agree, abortion is murder and I am not in agreement with it any longer.

I've always been for abortion because of all the irresponsible people running around, but I'm starting to change my view on it. I think the abortion process is a strategic plan to dispose of poor people and people of color, since the majority of abortion clinics are in poor areas and areas where there are a lot of non-white people. It would be nice if everyone could afford kids in the event of a pregnancy, but that's not the case. Some people need alternatives because no one is going to stop having unprotected sex. I think giving the baby up for adoption is a better choice. I think woman that choose abortion do it because it's easier than forming a bond with the baby, then giving it up for adoption. Maybe if more women chose to do the adoption thing, they would change their mind about keeping the baby and realize that they could use their finances in a way that would allow them to afford the child. But I agree, abortion is murder and I am not in agreement with it any longer.

Most black kids won't get adopted. In fact a large portion of kids in foster care now are black kids.

Abortion is not the best option (as contraception is), but a child that is a zygote is less likely to feel pain then a full-born child that gets born into an abusive situation, or has to spend the rest of its life feeling unwanted because they had no parents to take care of them.

There are also situations where babies have devestating terminal illness or awful deformities in which they will not survive outside of their mother's womb, or they will suffer immensely when they are born only to die in thier childhood years. In fact there's a horrible disease that affects Jewish babies that does exactly the latter.. don't remember the name of it. But anyway, if parents decide to abort children in these situations, I certainly wouldn't pass judgment, though I do think abortion doctors should take measures that fetuses aborted for these reasons are not going to be in pain.

Most black kids won't get adopted. In fact a large portion of kids in foster care now are black kids.

Abortion is not the best option (as contraception is), but a child that is a zygote is less likely to feel pain then a full-born child that gets born into an abusive situation, or has to spend the rest of its life feeling unwanted because they had no parents to take care of them.

There are also situations where babies have devestating terminal illness or awful deformities in which they will not survive outside of their mother's womb, or they will suffer immensely when they are born only to die in thier childhood years. In fact there's a horrible disease that affects Jewish babies that does exactly the latter.. don't remember the name of it. But anyway, if parents decide to abort children in these situations, I certainly wouldn't pass judgment, though I do think abortion doctors should take measures that fetuses aborted for these reasons are not going to be in pain.

Yeah, it's a hard issue to tackle. Like you stated, there are many instances where abortion is neccessary, but I'm still a little bit on both ends right now. That's true though, black kids are the last to be adopted. That in itself makes for a bad situation, because these kids can develop problems of feeling unwanted and abandoned. I still think that those are not the norm. I think abortion is being used more as a means to eliminate something that will cause your lifestyle to change.

Abortion is murder no ifs and or buts about it...the only way i wouldnt really have a problem is if the mother was raped,all that other sh** is a bunch of bull crap! :peace:


If you believe that abortion is murder and you say that it's ok to kill the baby only if the mother was raped then you are basically saying that rape justifies murder--not the murder of the offender but the murder of someone else. By that same logic if I were raped I would have the right to murder someone-anyone.

I am pro-choice and it sounds like you are as well--I think we just differ on the rationale behind it.

I second that. If a woman can go and get an abortion, why should I spend time in jail for taking another man's life that is walking down the street? If I were to do so, I mean. No woman, no man, should have the right to make a decision as to whether or not another human life gets to live or not.

To say that a person becomes more human during the 4th and 5th months and thereby making it more inhumane to abort them is very odd.

Seasons neither begin nor end, but change. Likewise, it is the same with all life.

Abortion is a touchy subject because it involves a lot of controversial issues surrounding morality, religion and law. This is how I look at it--I dont have the audacity nor the nerve to kill a live chickhen--(to actually do the deed) but I have no quams with cracking eggs-- not to trivialize the subject but there is a difference

Yeah, it's a hard issue to tackle. Like you stated, there are many instances where abortion is neccessary, but I'm still a little bit on both ends right now. That's true though, black kids are the last to be adopted. That in itself makes for a bad situation, because these kids can develop problems of feeling unwanted and abandoned. I still think that those are not the norm. I think abortion is being used more as a means to eliminate something that will cause your lifestyle to change.

True... I am less likely to approve of abortion being used for those reasons.

Not only is abortion still a surgical procedure with risk and complications, but it can result in emotional consequences for women regardless of when it is done. It should definitely not be the first thing that comes to mind because a child is an 'inconveniance.'

If you believe that abortion is murder and you say that it's ok to kill the baby only if the mother was raped then you are basically saying that rape justifies murder--not the murder of the offender but the murder of someone else. By that same logic if I were raped I would have the right to murder someone-anyone.

I am pro-choice and it sounds like you are as well--I think we just differ on the rationale behind it.

I agree... a fetus resulting from a rape is still as much of a life as a fetus resulting through consentual sex. However, I definitely would not judge if a woman that was raped decided to do that.

Sister Nisa ... you're sounding hostile ... QQ

It's okay Sister. You don't ever have to have an abortion, or answer for the Sisters that do.

:heart:

Destee
Never hostile just speaking the truth,and i stand my ground noone can ever sway me or make me think otherwise..when one knows the truth..they have their say and keep moving.

I agree with Nisa it is murder and no one knows the pain and torement the mother who got the abortion will have to live with for the rest of her life. Not only that but there are risks involved with an abortion.

I agree with Nisa it is murder and no one knows the pain and torement the mother who got the abortion will have to live with for the rest of her life. Not only that but there are risks involved with an abortion.
Yep like not being able to bear children again..PID..death of the mother....its more to it than yt tellz ya....Im pro life

:flowers:
Hey Ya'll

Just a small question
What about aboritons in teens and or children who have been molested as early as 11 and 12? Should the procedure be done or should the child be born and raised/put up for adoption?

I know a couple of parents of teens who have said if their child ever came home with somethin in the oven off to the clinic they'll go!!!!

Just asking

:flowers:
Hey Ya'll

Just a small question
What about aboritons in teens and or children who have been molested as early as 11 and 12? Should the procedure be done or should the child be born and raised/put up for adoption?

I know a couple of parents of teens who have said if their child ever came home with somethin in the oven off to the clinic they'll go!!!!

Just asking

That is tough.

You can't prevent molestation, but 'consentual' sex you should have some control over if your teen is 11, 12 years old. So my thing would be my daughter wouldn't be in that situation because she wouldn't allowed that type of freedom at that age. But if something did happen, even with all of the restrictions I would place... I don't know what I would do.

:spinn:
It is Tough especially for today's teens with no guidance
I have a 4yr old daughter and LAWD knows i would bug out if she came home
talkin bout a baby. :baby:
lol

It just all goes back to educating our children and Adults as well
Dont just open ya legs to anything thats swingin

There are consequences and choices to be made once a pregnancy is involved.

I agree with Nisa it is murder and no one knows the pain and torement the mother who got the abortion will have to live with for the rest of her life. Not only that but there are risks involved with an abortion.

Killing a embryo is not murder because it is not a human.

If you want to call brand spanking new embryo a human, then I think that kind of devalues what a human is.

In "murdering" such a human, you're merely killing a handful of cells. That they can't think, feel pain, etc, is absolutely relevant.

It's a potential human, but not a human yet. Is there some specific thing that happens at conception that makes it "murder", when moments before, killing the separate sperm and egg would not have been murder?

Legal definition of life aside, for a woman, that child's life begins when they consider it to be a life- in other words, when a woman percieves that this thing inside of them has a face, character, name, etc. etc.

I agree that there is a problem of knowing where to draw the line - you would want to err on the side of keeping the foetus, if anything.

Being Pro-Life/Pro-Choice then really this is just an argument about religion.

Alot of you think abortion is murder, but this hinges on the legal definition of when life starts. [which is currently at birth, not conception.]

A woman cannot choose whether she wishes to murder her child [or conspire to have her doctor murder her child], but she does have the choice to kill an unborn [and implied unalive] child.

I will say that there is nothing wrong with aborting something with no feelings,the fetus can have no feelings, so it's okay to abort them.


The fetus has absolutely no right to be born, it is relying on the mother to give it its supposed 'right to be born'. And as long as the mother is willing to provide for the fetus it stays alive, obviously the mother has many many issues to take into consideration when contemplating an abortion (otherwise known as ceasing to provide for the fetus), but it really is her choice if the parasitic relationship continues as it is her body that is being used. I guess what the real question is "what qualifies something to have 'rights'?" and furthermore "what are rights?".


The legality of the issue should not even be a primary consideration. I think the whole "pro-life" "pro-choice" debate is something of an antiquated notion. The terms serve only to point negatively at the opposite opinion. For both sides to be metaphyisically immodest is perhaps imperative; regardless, for there to be any resolution of this issue, it must be a universal consensus. Since that seems unlikely, I'll merely state what I've come up with in my own reasoning about this issue.

Killing a embryo is not murder because it is not a human.

If you want to call brand spanking new embryo a human, then I think that kind of devalues what a human is.

In "murdering" such a human, you're merely killing a handful of cells. That they can't think, feel pain, etc, is absolutely relevant.

It's a potential human, but not a human yet. Is there some specific thing that happens at conception that makes it "murder", when moments before, killing the separate sperm and egg would not have been murder?

Legal definition of life aside, for a woman, that child's life begins when they consider it to be a life- in other words, when a woman percieves that this thing inside of them has a face, character, name, etc. etc.

I agree that there is a problem of knowing where to draw the line - you would want to err on the side of keeping the foetus, if anything.

Being Pro-Life/Pro-Choice then really this is just an argument about religion.


What is your opinion of an older fetus... particularly those after 5 months that are able to live outside of its mother's womb with the appropriate medical intervention? Do you feel the criteria for life must be being born after the full 9 months... or being born whenever the body is ready to go into labor?

...............................................

What is your opinion of an older fetus... particularly those after 5 months that are able to live outside of its mother's womb with the appropriate medical intervention? Do you feel the criteria for life must be being born after the full 9 months... or being born whenever the body is ready to go into labor?


An organism with the will to survive has an instinctual drive to do so,but it has to do so without medical intervention?

I dont mean it in a bad way,but thats what i think

What is your opinion of an older fetus... particularly those after 5 months that are able to live outside of its mother's womb with the appropriate medical intervention? Do you feel the criteria for life must be being born after the full 9 months... or being born whenever the body is ready to go into labor?


An organism with the will to survive has an instinctual drive to do so,but it has to do so without medical intervention?

I dont mean it in a bad way,but thats what i think

An organism with the will to survive has an instinctual drive to do so,but it has to do so without medical intervention?

I dont mean it in a bad way,but thats what i think

How many people who are born get sick and rely on medical intervention to get them well? Going by that logic none of us should go to the doctor because if we have the will to survive we'll make it without the medication.

Even if one doesn't believe in God, you could still say that 'evolution' made us evolve in such a way that we have the BRAINS to use science to help sustain our survival. It serves only as an aide... if the spirit is meant to pass on it will regardless, but it deserves at least a chance at survival.

As soon as we don't help the 'future mother' to carry the baby,we may not have the right to judge!!!It's true that she made a mistake,but everyone has to carry is own cross.Abortion shouldn't be a crime!But when the same mother does it more than twice,then we should do smtg

From an Islamic point of view, most abortions (except when the mother's life or health is in jeopardy) are wrong.

But from a personal point of view, I believe no one should bring a life into this world they don't want or aren't prepared to take care of.

I believe our community will improve with QUALITY, not necessarily QUANTITY.

Every man that I have ever dated or befriended ALWAYS made the comment that abortion was murder; thereby making it morally and legally wrong in their eyes.... This more than any other statement is BS. !!!BS!!!

A lot of people, men and women, assume that the reason for a someone having an abortion are for selfish purposes. If you were not in the bed with that woman, if you have not walked in her shoes, if you are not able to carry that child for nine months (or however many it takes to have the child) if you are not willing to care for that child THEN it is of no concern to you. Yes, should be the answer to all of the above questions...

It IS a decision where the man involved should be consulted; however he should not have the last say on the question at hand-- to abort or not to abort. IMO it's between a woman and God. She should look to herself and Him for the answer. AND that does not neccessarily mean she should have the child.

All that being said.... I don't think that I could have an abortion. I have two beautiful children and I cannot imagine them not being apart of my life and apart of this world. If I were to become pregnant now then that's a conversation that I would have to have with God. AND a decision I would have to live with... ME... NOT YOU... OR HIM.... OR HER.... OR SOME POLITICAN.... OR SOME FANATIC... ME...

It's my cross... ya'll know the rest...

Letme add this... I have known women who use abortion as means of an birth control. This is wrong in my eyes... for many reasons... one of the main ones is that... it is extremely unhealthy and the woman throws the dice on her being able to have children in the future...

I don''t think it should be used as a form of birth control.
I saw where someone said it's ok if she got raped to have the abortion.
That's contradicting! If it's murder to you, it doesn't matter how it got here it's still here and didn't ask to be put here.
People who have never been in that situation shouldn't give anyone any advice! There are women who should protect themselves at all cost but not all bc works.
I have never had one myself but I have friends who were getting beat on while pregnant and they just didn't want any part of the man or baby.
Thirteen yr olds out theyre freakin and coming up pregnant! Let me tell you something my 13yr life will not be over because of it.I have friends daughters now had a baby at 15 and guess where the baby is with my friend because she does not know how to take care of him and she's violent towards the baby.She dropped out of highschool.Now 17 she can't even write a ledgable letter. My other friend's daughter had one at 10yrs, 10yrs? hell no! she now has 3 and she's only 17.No education,no goals and no time or help.
It's a choice you have to make and one you will have to live with for the rest of your life whatever you do.

Then another friend in which I dont know why she did it,but her and her husband are very well established with 4kids.She went in to have one and seized herself into a coma.
She's like a vegetable. Nobody knows what happened but she will be a vegetable for the rest of her life at 30yrs old.

I guess it all boils down to what one believes the fetus is. If one believes a fetus is a human being even at conception they'll believe abortion is wrong. If one believes the fetus is a bunch of cells especially in the early months and is fully human only after birth then they'll be against it.

Where there's BLOOD there's LIFE.

In this country we are so disconnected from basic laws of cause and effect...sex can lead to pregnancy (I used 2 forms of bc and became pregnant), but we have everthing so confined and in different boxes that we view sex, pregnancy, abortion, mental/spiritual/emotional health, etc..as separate entities instead of all interconnected....so of course if a woman has sex and "becomes" pregnant she begins to think in terms of solitary actions (abortion vs no abortion) but never considers the ramifications on every aspect of who she is....how will this affect her mentally/spiritually/physically/emotionally AND EVERYONE she is connected to..every action has an opposite and equal reaction...on every level...rippling in all directions of time and space...I contend that the issue is larger and more complex than should you do it or not? Whats the biological parameters of humanness?..etc...Until you can sit and meditate on ALL that is involved both past and present in every aspect of your being...you should not decide....many of us are not ready to relate on such a level which is why sex should not be a "casual act" because the effect is not "casual"....

Well lets really look deep into the eryday sitiuations and real life women who are having these babies ...Like adrea yates , she had no buisnees having babies or anymore.....she murdered all 5 of her living children in cold blood , she should burn in hell for that ...... she ws sick......and needed help but no one aroung her gave a rotten **** about that lady .......if u aint ready and you know ur not , dont be stupid , why suffer ur life and that childs life on earth , what winds up happening is that u really cant and dont ene up supprting this child the way u thought u were going to be able too (speaking of Americans though) i mean ..But to the folks having multiple abortions thats just careless and u got issues worse than andrea yates ever wil have ......How evr u put it whether it be because u got raped or u just wasnt ready ...and soeaking for my self as well , i think that it is murder, edning the process of life in some shape or form that child will not see his or her days on earth , that doesnt mean that he or she wasnt on their way

I've heard all kinds of justification and rationalizations for abortion. Some say it's not life yet,other's say it's life but not viable, therefore it should be up to woman to decide. We wouldn't be talking it about it all if it were one hundred years ago. The problem is economics and world overpopulation. Poverty in a lot of countries is the result of overpopulation. China is limiting the number of children a family can have to one, they are the most populous country. India is next with over a billion people to care for. Abortion is going to be the solution to overpopulation for those people who don't or can't use contraceptives for whatever reasons. It's the simplest solution to the problem and is preferable to mass starvation,mass unemployment and shortages of water and clean air. It's believed that there were less than one hundred million people on earth during biblical times. Now there are over six billion and counting. It's about resources being limited, and if populations are not controlled, the next phase will be extermination of some groups by the more powerful ones. Government's don't really care about morality

In my opinion

The fetus is a person, but it is neither conscious or has sensations. In order to develop these faculties it must be born, and even then these faculties are very limited. Since the fetus is a person who is unaware, it has no preference to life or death, because it is not even aware it exists. So since no preference exists from the perspective of the fetus, the decision is up to that of the mother.
Think of it this way, imagine killing someone in their sleep except the person has never been awake to form beliefs et cetera. Killing them makes no difference to the 'sleeping beauty' because they do not even realize they are alive, so likewise we should be able to kill the fetus.
In short if a fetus is a person it does not have any of the qualities we normally look for in a person, therefore, it does not need the same consideration as conscious, self aware, feeling people.

what do you think ?

Peace.

Humbly, I think I would like to know from whom you've received this absolutely incorrect (westernized) information?
Nothing could possibly be further from the truth.
I think this is the "line" most seek when faced with the dilemma as such.

Seasons neither begin nor end, but change. Likewise, it is the same with all life.

Very well said. I haven't read the other posts yet and I don't really want to get into this. Humans are arrogant to think it is their place to decide which life is worth preserving or not.

Where there's BLOOD there's LIFE.

Exactly. Anyone that wants to shed blood and take away any life is a fool whether in this realm or the next.

And if you take away the spiritual blood of a person, well I guess God will have to deal with you in the next realm.

Exactly. Anyone that wants to shed blood and take away any life is a fool whether in this realm or the next.

And if you take away the spiritual blood of a person, well I guess God will have to deal with you in the next realm.

I'd have to disagree with this.
I had a friend who was VIOLENTLY raped and conceived and there is no way I would have had that child.

I'd have to disagree with this.
I had a friend who was VIOLENTLY raped and conceived and there is no way I would have had that child.

Well, rape would have to be an exception.

My post was going from the perspective of someone who got pregnant because they were too stupid to use birth control and was in a normal romantic relationship. I believe if you get pregnant through a rape it depends on your religious beliefs... in my opinion it would be best just to get it done quickly, as soon as you find out.

Another exception would be if the woman's life is in danger. There is no reason an abortion should be performed other than possibly religious if a pregnancy is going to physically kill a woman.

Another exception would be if the woman's life is in danger. There is no reason an abortion should be performed other than possibly religious if a pregnancy is going to physically kill a woman.
Hmmm. Not a woman, but I would gladly and most willfully risk dieing for my Child if it meant that my Child might live.
I wonder if the will to take such a risk would change for some if the child were already born.

I recall when I was a child and the pastor asked all to stand who were ready if Jesus called for them. I remained seated :)

I guess it depends on the individual.

Hmmm. Not a woman, but I would gladly and most willfully risk dieing for my Child if it meant that my Child might live.
I wonder if the will to take such a risk would change for some if the child were already born.

I recall when I was a child and the pastor asked all to stand who were ready if Jesus called for them. I remained seated :)

I guess it depends on the individual.

This would be a hard decision to make for me if I had other living children.
What will your other kids do without you?
Who will raise them and the unborn?
In life you must make difficult choices.
There is always a positive and a negative aspect of each choice you make.

This is a very touchy subject for me for I am adopted. My mother knew that she was not ready for me but instead of aborting me, she carried me so that someone else without the ability to have a child may know the joy. She could of been like so many of that time and been liberated and say that it was her body and no way was she going to let a child inconvience her. Instead she accept her situation and was a blessing to someone else. She turned her lemons into lemonade.

Having said all that I must confess that I am still pro-choice. I believe that the government should not be about to legislate your physical body. However morally I think abortion is wrong. But wrongdoing is going to be with us always and there are many things that are morally wrong that we do not legislate. I believe that each individual will have to stand before their maker and justified their actions. So let it be between them and their God.

This is a very touchy subject for me for I am adopted. My mother knew that she was not ready for me but instead of aborting me, she carried me so that someone else without the ability to have a child may know the joy. She could of been like so many of that time and been liberated and say that it was her body and no way was she going to let a child inconvience her. Instead she accept her situation and was a blessing to someone else. She turned her lemons into lemonade.

Having said all that I must confess that I am still pro-choice. I believe that the government should not be about to legislate your physical body. However morally I think abortion is wrong. But wrongdoing is going to be with us always and there are many things that are morally wrong that we do not legislate. I believe that each individual will have to stand before their maker and justified their actions. So let it be between them and their God.

I'm happy to know you had a terrific family to raise and love you.
Your biological mama I'm sure loved you too,so much she made sure you had a good life.:spinstar:
Much love to you boo!

This should really be discussed on a "white site" since it was they who came up with this so called "intimate definition of what is and what is not life". The fact is that: Life is in the DNA, the very sperm cell that swims to impregnate the egg. What do white people know of the "consciousness of something so finite"?

They measure what they can and speculate on what they can't measure. We, being miseducated by them and their definitions, follow suit in "how they define reality and life".
Then we sit back and wonder why we are not progressing or moving forward as a people ! INCREDIBLE !!!

I'd have to disagree with this.
I had a friend who was VIOLENTLY raped and conceived and there is no way I would have had that child.

In this instance I will have to disagree with you. My heart personally goes to ones faced in this situation. Being raped is bad yes, but I don't see where turning around and killing your offspring because of the way he was conceived is justifiable. Just because something bad happens doesn't mean that it's over. It's not the child's fault that his father raped his mother. I would think that this child deserves love just like everybody else and to say that their conception determines if they live is wrong. God can turn things around.

I don't know, but my 13 year old daughter thanks God that I chose to have her and did not let my fears wipe her existance away. I was 14 years old when I got pregnant. I was still playing with dolls myself and now I was going to mother, I didn't want that. My father was outraged, he took me to Planned Parenthood to get an abortion, but something deep down inside of me knew that it was wrong. I was scared out of my mind, I didn't want to be put in that situation, but I knew that the fetus growing inside of me was counting on me to live for her. So that's why I have to disagree, from personal experience ~ no matter how hard we think things are going to be, God always shows up and gets us through it...to learn something and grow.

In this instance I will have to disagree with you. My heart personally goes to ones faced in this situation. Being raped is bad yes, but I don't see where turning around and killing your offspring because of the way he was conceived is justifiable. Just because something bad happens doesn't mean that it's over. It's not the child's fault that his father raped his mother. I would think that this child deserves love just like everybody else and to say that their conception determines if they live is wrong. God can turn things around.

I don't know, but my 13 year old daughter thanks God that I chose to have her and did not let my fears wipe her existance away. I was 14 years old when I got pregnant. I was still playing with dolls myself and now I was going to mother, I didn't want that. My father was outraged, he took me to Planned Parenthood to get an abortion, but something deep down inside of me knew that it was wrong. I was scared out of my mind, I didn't want to be put in that situation, but I knew that the fetus growing inside of me was counting on me to live for her. So that's why I have to disagree, from personal experience ~ no matter how hard we think things are going to be, God always shows up and gets us through it...to learn something and grow.

When you are raped the child is born out of violence and pain this is not what the joys of being pregnant or motherhood is about.
You were 14 and pregnant willingly having sex, my friend was followed,cornered ,backed into an alley and beat unconciously,raped, I am not saying that abortion should be used as birthcontrol because you knew what you were doing before you laid down but in the instance of rape or life and death situations where you have kids already here I understand!

In this instance I will have to disagree with you. My heart personally goes to ones faced in this situation. Being raped is bad yes, but I don't see where turning around and killing your offspring because of the way he was conceived is justifiable. Just because something bad happens doesn't mean that it's over. It's not the child's fault that his father raped his mother. I would think that this child deserves love just like everybody else and to say that their conception determines if they live is wrong. God can turn things around.

I don't know, but my 13 year old daughter thanks God that I chose to have her and did not let my fears wipe her existance away. I was 14 years old when I got pregnant. I was still playing with dolls myself and now I was going to mother, I didn't want that. My father was outraged, he took me to Planned Parenthood to get an abortion, but something deep down inside of me knew that it was wrong. I was scared out of my mind, I didn't want to be put in that situation, but I knew that the fetus growing inside of me was counting on me to live for her. So that's why I have to disagree, from personal experience ~ no matter how hard we think things are going to be, God always shows up and gets us through it...to learn something and grow.

Very touching story, Virgo Mistress:sand:

This should really be discussed on a "white site" since it was they who came up with this so called "intimate definition of what is and what is not life". The fact is that: Life is in the DNA, the very sperm cell that swims to impregnate the egg. What do white people know of the "consciousness of something so finite"?

They measure what they can and speculate on what they can't measure. We, being miseducated by them and their definitions, follow suit in "how they define reality and life".
Then we sit back and wonder why we are not progressing or moving forward as a people ! INCREDIBLE !!!

Where there's blood, there's LIFE!

Where there's blood, there's LIFE!

This is not a black and white issue!
Until you have faced a llife and death situation,been raped,molested by relatives, whom I have two friends this has occured to we shouldn't speak.
I was watching this tv show called if these walls could talk and they were killing people who were in the abortion clinics.

That's crazy!

It's a choice their choice not yours.

This is not a black and white issue!
Until you have faced a llife and death situation,been raped,molested by relatives, whom I have two friends this has occured to we shouldn't speak.
I was watching this tv show called if these walls could talk and they were killing people who were in the abortion clinics.

That's crazy!

It's a choice their choice not yours.


When I said:"Where there's Blood, there's life", I wasn't referring to "black and white", nor was I judging any one's choice to abort or carry a seed to full term. I was simply elaborating on Brother Keita's post which discussed white's "intimate definition" of when life begins. IMO, again, where there's blood there's life.

I quoted you instead of him.
My mistake spicy.

When you are raped the child is born out of violence and pain this is not what the joys of being pregnant or motherhood is about.
You were 14 and pregnant willingly having sex, my friend was followed,cornered ,backed into an alley and beat unconciously,raped, I am not saying that abortion should be used as birthcontrol because you knew what you were doing before you laid down but in the instance of rape or life and death situations where you have kids already here I understand!

Actually I was having sex willingly, I was very (mis)educated as a child and I got pregnant on my first time. I was only trying to see what everybody was talking about that was my age and older. I made a mistake, and had to pay for it. I have been raped as well and know what it's like to go through something like that. There are a lot of scenarios that we can play with on this subject. I was only saying that we shouldn't be like on one hand it's wrong and the other we are talking about it's ok if something bad happens. I am only stating that I know from personal experience that just because something looks bad or goes wrong and it's the end of our world, God can turn things around.
Being pregnant at 14 years old (when everybody found out they were VERY SHOCKED, it this was something totally out of my character), that was the end of my world. I didn't want anybody to know that I made a mistake and I didn't want anybody to know that I did something bad. I was in the office about to make my dad's decision. You know listen to him tell me that I shouldn't have to go through anything like that, no one has to know that you (are human and you make mistakes) I like to call it the easy way out. But something deep down inside let me know that no matter how BAD it was it was going to be alright. That's all that I am saying.

ABORTION .....is MURDER no way to cut around it .

Yes $$Rich$$ I agree!

ABORTION .....is MURDER no way to cut around it .

True! but it's not another man's/woman's decision to make.
Noone but that person will have to deal with it in the end.

Actually I was having sex willingly, I was very (mis)educated as a child and I got pregnant on my first time. I was only trying to see what everybody was talking about that was my age and older. I made a mistake, and had to pay for it. I have been raped as well and know what it's like to go through something like that. There are a lot of scenarios that we can play with on this subject. I was only saying that we shouldn't be like on one hand it's wrong and the other we are talking about it's ok if something bad happens. I am only stating that I know from personal experience that just because something looks bad or goes wrong and it's the end of our world, God can turn things around.
Being pregnant at 14 years old (when everybody found out they were VERY SHOCKED, it this was something totally out of my character), that was the end of my world. I didn't want anybody to know that I made a mistake and I didn't want anybody to know that I did something bad. I was in the office about to make my dad's decision. You know listen to him tell me that I shouldn't have to go through anything like that, no one has to know that you (are human and you make mistakes) I like to call it the easy way out. But something deep down inside let me know that no matter how BAD it was it was going to be alright. That's all that I am saying.

Hi five to you!
I know it must have been rough
I had my daughter at 20 and married it was still hard so I can only imagine.
I know at 14 I was petrified of sex.
Alot of my friends had kids or were active.
I was a late bloomer.

Hi five to you!
I know it must have been rough
I had my daughter at 20 and married it was still hard so I can only imagine.
I know at 14 I was petrified of sex.
Alot of my friends had kids or were active.
I was a late bloomer.


NO cursed heart I meant to say I wasn't having sex willingly. I wasn't thinking about until everybody around was talking about it. I was still playing with my barbie and cabbage patch kids dolls. That was a typo, ok. I don't look down at myself for having a child before I was married. Like I said I made that mistake, uneducated, raised out of fear. I had sex that one time and got caught up, I learned my lesson. I had my next child six years later when I was married.

How can one deal with the facts they have taken life
when they themselves had a chance to life .............

Sinful

How can one deal with the facts they have taken life
when they themselves had a chance to life .............

Sinful
I don't know rich but I'm sure it's not an easy decision for that woman to make.
People take lives everyday and it still don't make it right, murder is murder and only they will have to answer in the end.
Everyone who is truly sorry for anything they have done in this life are capable of being forgiven.
So if that woman had an abortion she is truly in pain(heart wise) after the fact she is also capable of being forgiven.
If we all yell MURDERER MURDERER MURDERER in anger and judgement we are just as guilty.
iF A MAN DOES NOT BELIEVE IN ABORTION THAT'S FINE BE A MAN AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHILD,BETTER YET WEAR PROTECTION IF YOU DON'T WANT ONE.
If a woman does not believe in abortion than don't have one.

if a woman don't believe in abortion don't have one
is a under statement ......why not !

i know many women who don't believe in it ......but if they didn't
bare child many of us wouldn't be here today .....

but abortion is sinful and cold REDRUM