Hello Family,

I've just had a haunting experience, which triggered my desire to post this thread, encouraging young Black parents to be in control of their children's educational experience ... especially as it relates to White teachers.

This is not to suggest that there are no good White teachers. I must say this upfront, because it is not my intent to suggest this. There are some good ones. I've had a few myself. One in particular, Ms. Maureen Lavin, who was my 6th grade teacher. She loves me, and i love her. She took me under her wing, showed me how much confidence she had in me, brought me into her home, introduced me to her husband and child, and is my friend to this day. Oh my gosh, i wonder if she'll ever google her name and find this here! Will she be upset with me?! I surely hope not. I love you Ms. Lavin! :love:

While i, and many others i'm sure, have had wonderful, positive experiences with White teachers, many fall short of delivering that to our children.

As Black parents, you must be in complete control of your child's welfare. It is not the White teacher's responsibility to insure that your child has a wonderful, positive learning experience. It is your responsibility, the Black parent.

The only way you can know that your child is receiving all that he or she can, you must be vigilant. You must stay on top of it. You must ask questions. You must be involved every single day with their homework and school experiences. You must encourage them to talk to you about this. You must be there for them. You must be the "Go To" person. You must be in control. Our children are so precious, and they can't do this for themselves.

Many teachers expect for you not to care, for school to be a "babysitter" for you. This makes their already difficult job, easier. Children with parents that don't care, will not be up in that teacher's face, demanding results. School is so much more than someone watching our babies all day. You must recognize this. You give your children to these people all day, to mold their mind, character, integrity, and Spirit. This is no small matter parents!

As i said, i just had a haunting experience, that triggered all of these thoughts in me. I'm 44 years old, the Mother of 2 grown children. My son is 27, and my daughter is 20. I raised them as a young single Mother. I missed a lot of things, that i might shooda had seen. Things that could have better helped prepare my son and daughter for adulthood. In spite of this, in spite of me ... they are both wonderful children ... responsible, independent, and respectful.

I have been given the opportunity to share what i've learned as a parent, by helping my Sister to parent her two young children. She has a daughter that is 11, and a son that is 6. We all live together.

Every evening i help the children with their homework. Her youngest child, Michael, is in 1st grade. He has the usual spelling and reading words he must memorize each week, tested on Fridays. In addition to all of his normal homework, i have him write these words twice. Remembering back in the day, when i was raising my own children, this was something that i did. So, i did it with Michael too. I would send this "extra homework" back to school each day with his assigned homework. The teacher sent it back with a smiley face on it. Okay, she and i are together, on the same page.

Then on Wednesday, 09/14/05, as we were doing homework, Michael tells me that his teacher said i was making him do too much homework. I said, "Huh? The teacher said what?" and he repeated himself. I sent a note to school with him on Thursday, sharing what he said to me. The teacher wrote back on Friday, and actually said the following:


The reason I said you gave him too much homework is because you have him write the spelling words and reading words every night. He can just go over them orally :) (To help him out and you).

Thanks -

Teacher's Name

Of course Michael comes in quite happy to share this with me! In his little mind, he wins, less homework!

But i'm so very puzzled by this. I cannot believe a teacher is saying, you're giving your child too much homework! Michael has earned an "A" on every spelling and reading test she's given! It takes all of 15 minutes for him to do this extra work i give him! He's not struggling through it, and it certainly doesn't require me to do a whole lot. He's accustomed to it being a part of his normal homework process, but now it's been put into his mind that it is "too much."

I'm almost angry with her. How dare she suggest that i limit him, that i lessen the input into the foundation of his desire and pattern of learning! I really don't know if i should be angry or what ... she put a smiley face on the note (noted above) that she sent!

Anyway, Michael will continue to write those words each night! It helps him with his penmanship, the reinforcement of those words to memory, as well as building in him the understanding that learning requires time and effort ... and it only takes him a few minutes!

My mind could not help but go back to my son's early years. I wasn't as viligant then, as i am now. So many things i didn't know to do. I'd never been the parent of a young Black man-child before. It was hard seeing past the struggle of simply surviving every day, to see the bigger picture. There were many of these instances in his life as well, i just couldn't see them all.

This thread is to encourage young Black parents, not to make the same mistakes as i made. Stay forever focused on your child's education, and keep them focused on it too! It is so important. You are shaping their desire to learn, and more importantly, to love learning!

I realize that there are Black teachers too, that we must beware of, but there is some basic, fundamental, underlying void that can be present with a White teacher, keeping them from understanding the brilliance in our children. I don't know if they are afraid of our babies or what, but i have too many personal instances, and have heard tell of others, that confirm this.

The 5 year old little girl that was handcuffed and arrested (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33905) at school. The way all of the White teachers, educators, administration, dealt with that child. My soul cried. While this is more obscene, blatant, and unquestionable, as it relates to their understanding our babies, the experience i shared above is much more subtle, happens every day ... and is equally, if not more, damaging to the child.

Stay on top of your children's education! They cannot do this themselves. They are dependent on you to look out for them. To watch for all of the little signs, attempts, and efforts to derail their future. There are many! You must put and get the most out of this time in their lives, that you can.

Once this time in their lives has passed, it is gone forever.

:heart:

Destee

I've often said that in general white teachers don't do well with black children because they either fear them or stereotype them: White teachers often don't require much of black students, because they feel black children are not capable of doing the work. In addition white teachers and white schools often withhold information from black children such as SAT prep courses & scholarship opportunities. The solution to this is that Parents need to be involved with their children's schools. That is the only way to ensure that one's child/children aren't being neglected or mistreated!

Nobody has the right to tell a parent they are giving their kids too much homework. That is the most insane thing I've ever heard.

At the elementary school that I went to as a child there was an opposite situation... the parents wanted to get the teacher fired because they felt he was giving them too much homework. And that's exactly what happened... he got fired.

Oooh Sister! I feel your frustration and the plea to parents to be involved in there learning process. I too spend time when my daughter, teaching her and preparing her for the many lessons presented in school.

Long before she attended school I have been teaching her. I often hear parents venting about the quality/quantity of work presented to their children. I share with them that they cannot depend on a teacher to teach their children properly. They have to assume the role of teacher and use the school as a tool of reinforcement of what they have taught their young.

Home schooling is the best way to go for an enriching education for our children, but if one is not able to do so because of other circumstances, it is so important that we make time for teaching our young, ourselves.

Thank you Sister Destee, for getting the word out to us. We really need to know what we're up against. KEEP SPREADING THE WORD! I will pass it on as well, with every opportunity I get.

I totally agree with you. My daughter isn't in school yet, but I have heard horror stories. My own 12 year old nephew was just diagnosed with ADD, and so was a friend's 4 year old son.

I have to wonder if some of these teachers are so unfamiliar with the spirit of our children that they are quick to label them. Especially young black boys. I'm not a teacher, so I can't judge them for doing the best they can, but I know that we as parents can't rely on them to teach and nurture our children. It has to start at home. Especially black history. Don't get me started on that!

I totally agree with you. My daughter isn't in school yet, but I have heard horror stories. My own 12 year old nephew was just diagnosed with ADD, and so was a friend's 4 year old son.

I have to wonder if some of these teachers are so unfamiliar with the spirit of our children that they are quick to label them. Especially young black boys. I'm not a teacher, so I can't judge them for doing the best they can, but I know that we as parents can't rely on them to teach and nurture our children. It has to start at home. Especially black history. Don't get me started on that!

I had an online friend that was telling me how many normal black children get labeled retarded because they were acting up and get forced into 'special classes.'

I had an online friend that was telling me how many normal black children get labeled retarded because they were acting up and get forced into 'special classes.'

I've worked for Child Study Teams, and can confirm that. When our youth are acting out the 1st response of many schools is to label them "classified" and place them on drugs.

ya know how excited folks get when they finally catch on to that thing that somebody has been trying, very patiently, to teach them? well, when our children reach that point, it becomes a "behavioral" issue, and the new learning bit goes right out the window. two birds with one stone: turn them into "problem children" that they can then label any way they want to. and turn them off of the idea of learning!!!

and it works the other way, too; when our children pick everything up faster than the other kids, they never consider piling more work on us, or kicking us up a grade!! we must learn to work with other! stay with our group. don't read ahead. you couldn't have possibly finished that test already! don't fidget! stop working ahead! work on that in that class or study hall! yes, that is the right answer, but you didn't show your work!! (does any of this sound like it might be a bit personal?!)

i just "stopped" learning when i was around them ... but mom and dad were forever after me to get my nose out of that book and go outside and play! (i snuck a book out with me!) (after ten years in the mental health industry; i ain't gonna say a thing about them chemical restraints!! ... add/adhd indeed! heck, back in the day; the street junkies used to fight like mad dogs over them ritalins!!)

Insofar as childrens’ behavior at school, I think I fell for the whole notion that Black boys have a natural verve and shouldn’t be expected to sit still the way other children do in the classroom. That is what 2 of my girlfriends, a social worker and a teacher had convinced me. So, I literally didn’t believe it was possible for the boys to sit still. Anyway -, that is, until I went to Nigeria. One school scene there still stands out starkly in my mind of 40 or so boys and girls, probably around 8 or 9, on a hot, hot day sitting on wooden chairs that sat on a concrete slab under a sheet of corrugated tin propped up by poles. The children were all quiet, still, and paying very close attention to a teacher and they remained this way for the approx. 20 minutes or so that I observed. When I asked some of the Africans there how this was possible, they laughed at me, but went on to explain that the children knew they would be caned (whipped with a small stick) by the teacher if they didn’t behave well. And when they got home, they would be caned again.

As for my nephews’ behavior in the classroom here where they go to school, we just told them, “The school had better not EVER call this house about your behavior ‘cause we will come up there and beat some butt right in front of all your friends and we don’t care if we get arrested!” They knew we were serious. We also explained that this was a negative reflection on our family for them to act like they didn’t have good home-training. We discuss this at intervals with them. We have never been called by the school.

Insofar as childrens’ behavior at school, I think I fell for the whole notion that Black boys have a natural verve and shouldn’t be expected to sit still the way other children do in the classroom. That is what 2 of my girlfriends, a social worker and a teacher had convinced me. So, I literally didn’t believe it was possible for the boys to sit still. Anyway -, that is, until I went to Nigeria. One school scene there still stands out starkly in my mind of 40 or so boys and girls, probably around 8 or 9, on a hot, hot day sitting on wooden chairs that sat on a concrete slab under a sheet of corrugated tin propped up by poles. The children were all quiet, still, and paying very close attention to a teacher and they remained this way for the approx. 20 minutes or so that I observed. When I asked some of the Africans there how this was possible, they laughed at me, but went on to explain that the children knew they would be caned (whipped with a small stick) by the teacher if they didn’t behave well. And when they got home, they would be caned again.

As for my nephews’ behavior in the classroom here where they go to school, we just told them, “The school had better not EVER call this house about your behavior ‘cause we will come up there and beat some butt right in front of all your friends and we don’t care if we get arrested!” They knew we were serious. We also explained that this was a negative reflection on our family for them to act like they didn’t have good home-training. We discuss this at intervals with them. We have never been called by the school.

This is interesting, but really do most kids act up when they are expected by adults to act good? Most kids do tend to run around and act 'crazy' during recess or other times when they have 'freedom', but when it comes time to doing work they will do as they are told... at least this is how it was for me when I was in elementary school, and most of the kids were African Americans.

Even misbehaving on some level is normal. When it comes to white teachers and black kids, however, instead of them just disciplining the kid they take extreme measures because they possess 'black fear.'

Insofar as childrens’ behavior at school, I think I fell for the whole notion that Black boys have a natural verve and shouldn’t be expected to sit still the way other children do in the classroom. That is what 2 of my girlfriends, a social worker and a teacher had convinced me. So, I literally didn’t believe it was possible for the boys to sit still. Anyway -, that is, until I went to Nigeria. One school scene there still stands out starkly in my mind of 40 or so boys and girls, probably around 8 or 9, on a hot, hot day sitting on wooden chairs that sat on a concrete slab under a sheet of corrugated tin propped up by poles. The children were all quiet, still, and paying very close attention to a teacher and they remained this way for the approx. 20 minutes or so that I observed. When I asked some of the Africans there how this was possible, they laughed at me, but went on to explain that the children knew they would be caned (whipped with a small stick) by the teacher if they didn’t behave well. And when they got home, they would be caned again.

As for my nephews’ behavior in the classroom here where they go to school, we just told them, “The school had better not EVER call this house about your behavior ‘cause we will come up there and beat some butt right in front of all your friends and we don’t care if we get arrested!” They knew we were serious. We also explained that this was a negative reflection on our family for them to act like they didn’t have good home-training. We discuss this at intervals with them. We have never been called by the school.

Sister Riada ... you say that it took going to Nigeria to see young Black boys sit still ... yet you say that your nephew is well behaved. Why did it take going to Nigeria to see this, when you have your nephew to look at?

For the most part i agree with what you say. I've never personally interacted with any ugly, disrespectful, young Black boys ... and i've never been outside of the US.

Some adults, myself included, elicit respect (proper behavior) from our youth just by walking in the room.

For those who can't, i really don't see how that is the child's fault.

:heart:

Destee

I learn that being active in the school system by weekly visits to class
talking to teachers and giving the child / children the attention needed
will help all come on the same page to grow the mind of that child or children

I use this style being involved , i have many of the teachers white & black
e-mail me or fax work or things to me . Now i was once told that too much
homework or over loading the child will make them less willingly to learn this
very statement came from a Teacher Aid at the school, My reply was never can
you over load a mind for knowledge because it's endlessly i never bought into this

just a few night ago i was helping my son build a family tree and where his forefather
came from and i used a color code to express details of his tree and map pointing
where his people are from and where they started over after slavery to be as free ...

this way blew the teacher mind somewhat where he had miss important facts
of rooting your family tree so i agree parents need to be more involved and aware
because truefully many teachers are there to give what they can but will not babysit
or go to any extreme for one child and often they will pay less attention when parents
not involved .

I have seen and notice a lot of teachers today is at school flirting with other teachers
and not teaching our children anything just pushing them through the system once they
reach that age those pass years gone and so much lost they didn't know , I think still
Homebound teaching is very affective if the parent have the time but with so much today
and daily living as hard we can't or be as devoted to this style so we use the school system
to educate our children but to what degree are they doing it ????
i would say not a great deal but a hand full do learn that apply themselves and again this
comes from home and the teaching as parents give that is instill in them will motavate
Teachers offer the basic but the parents give them the structure of that basic this why i feel
Homebound study and schooling is better , but many argue that this harm the child morally
as well mentally as to issolate them or kill the facts of activities that schools offer, i still asure
myself that i am right on grounds that we send our children to school to learn / get degrees
have knowledge and be able to ultimately have this education not for activities or becoming a
figure in the sport arena, this have been the motive for many students trying to reach this form
more so then the higher learning educational wise , i am very aware of white teachers and some
blacks that don't really put out or look for much from our children they almost to me push for
our children to fail.....Now i can be as wrong about Homebound schooling if so please correct me!!!

I have had several bad experiences with white teachers, since im fairly young I remember them vividly. I'm not one who is quic kto play the race card but i've often noticed different treatment and sometimes a sort of -fear- of black students. LoL sometimes its the teacher talking extremly nice to you as if you are going to go upside his/her head, and sometimes it has to do with classwork.

I remember plenty of times a teacher talking to me after class claiming that I plaugerized something, claiming- NOT asking if i did, because it was so "well written". I think alot of it has to do with public school teachers who are burnt out and through experience have chosen to generalize us.

i couldn't agree more i think many are burnt out and with so much new tech today

I also notice the Teachers from the South was more into students then Teacher up North
they apply themselves to a child need but time have changed in the southern states as well

best Teacher is the parents guiding , but we as Blacks have been sterotyped so bad
that not many will even give us the fair act or chance we been labled for years and years .

For the most part i agree with what you say. I've never personally interacted with any ugly, disrespectful, young Black boys ... and i've never been outside of the US.

Some adults, myself included, elicit respect (proper behavior) from our youth just by walking in the room.

For those who can't, i really don't see how that is the child's fault.

That is what I call breaking it down!

I have seen and notice a lot of teachers today is at school flirting with other teachers
and not teaching our children anything just pushing them through the system once they
reach that age those pass years gone and so much lost they didn't know , I think still
Homebound teaching is very affective if the parent have the time but with so much today
and daily living as hard we can't or be as devoted to this style so we use the school system
to educate our children but to what degree are they doing it ????
i would say not a great deal but a hand full do learn that apply themselves and again this
comes from home and the teaching as parents give that is instill in them will motavate
Teachers offer the basic but the parents give them the structure of that basic this why i feel
Homebound study and schooling is better , but many argue that this harm the child morally
as well mentally as to issolate them or kill the facts of activities that schools offer, i still asure
myself that i am right on grounds that we send our children to school to learn / get degrees
have knowledge and be able to ultimately have this education not for activities or becoming a
figure in the sport arena, this have been the motive for many students trying to reach this form
more so then the higher learning educational wise , i am very aware of white teachers and some
blacks that don't really put out or look for much from our children they almost to me push for
our children to fail.....Now i can be as wrong about Homebound schooling if so please correct me!!!

I don't think you are wrong about home schooling. The more I ponder things like this the more I am leaning in favor of doing that for my child and any other future children I might have.

There is so much nonsense that goes on in a traditional school environment that I wonder is necessary for a kid's development. And private schools... ugh. I will say that the private schools I went to as a child/teenager encouraged the youth to excel (with the exception of the teacher that got fired for giving the kids too much homework and that was the parent's fault not the administration's). But the religious training... let's just say it took 21 years to de-brainwash myself of all of that stuff. This includes the racism, (which from my experience seems to show itself differently in private schools). The racism there was interwined with the religious beliefs... one time a group of 'missionaries' sung 'Please don't Send Me to Africa,' at a school that was like 90% African American!!!!

Destee, from some of the stories about the behavior of some of our kids in Bushwick East New York, and South Bronx elementary schools that I heard from 2 friends of mine who worked in the educational system in NYC, it was unreal. This Black teacher and social worker had the attitude that it was asking too much to expect Black boys to act like white boys and girls and even Black girls in the classroom, because they explained that the learning style of Black children was different, especially the Black boys (more testosterone). The teacher friend gave me a book by Dr. Janice Hale (can’t remember the title) a noted Black scholar on the subject in which Dr. Hale said that the cultural backgrounds of Black children is a world apart from the environment of schools and that the schools should try to adapt to the childrens' backround instead of the other way around. There are quite a few other noted Black authors on this topic in Dr. Hale’s camp. Some even try to link "acting out behaviors" or "verve" to melanin and other genetic factors.

Now to me this was a bunch of s&%t because these sounded like excuses and low expectations for these boys, but I was swayed by these BLACK scholars. Black boys were like this all over the world, I concluded, because they have testosterone, melanin, and similar genetic makeup all over the world. Now when I was growing up, ALL of the children were expected to behave in school—both the girls and the boys—and we did or faced the consequences. Poor behavior in school indicated that you didn’t have good home training and that was considered a negative reflection on our family.

My 8 nephews are raised by our extended family. Our family sets the expectation level for them in terms of behavior and learning. We are responsible for our children in these critical areas. We have never given the responsibility for our children learning and behaving to the school. Probably the school supplements what we do instead of the other way around. We’ve told my nephews that we don’t care whether the teacher likes them or whether they like the teacher or whether they think the class work is boring or whatever. They’re there to learn and as long as the teacher respects them and is teaching, they’d better get what they are sent there to get. Now if the teacher is not teaching or acts in any way disrespectful towards them, we’ve told them we’ll handle that part because no child can handle a teacher and win.

There are Black folks around us here who tell us that we are too strict, too demanding with our children, but we don’t listen to them because we know better. And we see what’s happening to some of their children, which is awful.

So I’m not discounting Dr. Hale’s research and others in her camp. I believe their intentions are good, but I just don’t believe their conclusions are accurate about ALL Black boys. However, they don’t specify that they’re ONLY talking about a very teeny tiny minority of Black boys in the world. However, I had become convinced at that point that she and the others were right—that Black boys at this point in time can’t sit still and be quiet in the classroom because of all of that natural “verve.” My nephews were not in elementary school at that point or had just started. So my experience in Africa made me realize that what she and the others were saying was not a universal truth.

Destee, from some of the stories about the behavior of some of our kids in Bushwick East New York, and South Bronx elementary schools that I heard from 2 friends of mine who worked in the educational system in NYC, it was unreal. This Black teacher and social worker had the attitude that it was asking too much to expect Black boys to act like white boys and girls and even Black girls in the classroom, because they explained that the learning style of Black children was different, especially the Black boys (more testosterone). The teacher friend gave me a book by Dr. Janice Hale (can’t remember the title) a noted Black scholar on the subject in which Dr. Hale said that the cultural backgrounds of Black children is a world apart from the environment of schools and that the schools should try to adapt to the childrens' backround instead of the other way around. There are quite a few other noted Black authors on this topic in Dr. Hale’s camp. Some even try to link "acting out behaviors" or "verve" to melanin and other genetic factors.

Now to me this was a bunch of s&%t because these sounded like excuses and low expectations for these boys, but I was swayed by these BLACK scholars. Black boys were like this all over the world, I concluded, because they have testosterone, melanin, and similar genetic makeup all over the world. Now when I was growing up, ALL of the children were expected to behave in school—both the girls and the boys—and we did or faced the consequences. Poor behavior in school indicated that you didn’t have good home training and that was considered a negative reflection on our family.

My 8 nephews are raised by our extended family. Our family sets the expectation level for them in terms of behavior and learning. We are responsible for our children in these critical areas. We have never given the responsibility for our children learning and behaving to the school. Probably the school supplements what we do instead of the other way around. We’ve told my nephews that we don’t care whether the teacher likes them or whether they like the teacher or whether they think the class work is boring or whatever. They’re there to learn and as long as the teacher respects them and is teaching, they’d better get what they are sent there to get. Now if the teacher is not teaching or acts in any way disrespectful towards them, we’ve told them we’ll handle that part because no child can handle a teacher and win.

There are Black folks around us here who tell us that we are too strict, too demanding with our children, but we don’t listen to them because we know better. And we see what’s happening to some of their children, which is awful.

So I’m not discounting Dr. Hale’s research and others in her camp. I believe their intentions are good, but I just don’t believe their conclusions are accurate about ALL Black boys. However, they don’t specify that they’re ONLY talking about a very teeny tiny minority of Black boys in the world. However, I had become convinced at that point that she and the others were right—that Black boys at this point in time can’t sit still and be quiet in the classroom because of all of that natural “verve.” My nephews were not in elementary school at that point or had just started. So my experience in Africa made me realize that what she and the others were saying was not a universal truth.

Sister Riada ... thanks for sharing. I've not read this book or author. I wasn't aware that there were folk suggesting that our children can't act within the expected and accepted confines of respectable behavior. Like you, i cannot agree, for we are most certainly able to do this, and more.

Another aspect that seems weird to me, is that you'd have to go to Nigeria, or any number of miles, to see and know this. I guess it's because i've always had children, kinda raised my siblings, and then my own children, and now more children. I've always had first hand knowledge regarding the brilliance and respect of our children.

While our paths were different, we both obtained a full report, and that is what's important.

Much Love and Peace Sister

:heart:

Destee

Being an educator I must say that I have encountered quite a number of disrespectful Black males, particularly when doing class coverage. To be fair I admit that I can say the same for practically every ethnic group and gender I have encountered. However, black males tend to challenge Black male authority figures the most but have even less respect for MOST white male teachers. In fact, most of my most belligerent former students were black males. At the same time, since I was a basketball coach, the ones I was able to reach and get focused on their academics proved to be the most rewarding to work with.

What were the racial demographics of the schools you've worked at?

Being an educator I must say that I have encountered quite a number of disrespectful Black males, particularly when doing class coverage. To be fair I admit that I can say the same for practically every ethnic group and gender I have encountered. However, black males tend to challenge Black male authority figures the most but have even less respect for MOST white male teachers. In fact, most of my most belligerent former students were black males. At the same time, since I was a basketball coach, the ones I was able to reach and get focused on their academics proved to be the most rewarding to work with.

Welcome to Destee.com Omowalejabali! I have also experienced young black males challenging Black Male Authority figures in the education system. I think the reason this occurs is that many young black males lack their father's involvement in their lives. The relationship they have with most older black males is an adversarial one, thus the approach the black male teacher/counselor in the same manner. Sometimes it takes a while to win their trust, but once one I personally have had positive relationships.

Oh My Goodness Destee.... that teacher was totally out of order...period! If anything she should have recognized that you are the type of parent that was willing to work with her, which will make her job a whole lot easier, allowing her time to focus on the children who did not have the same support system at home, but obviously that is not her goal.

I really hope that more parents catch the vision and get involved in their children education...cause the reality is the parents actions now will render a reaction later... and they can bank on that.