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Very good post, maybe if there were some members who understood it, things would be different.

Very good post, maybe if there were some members who understood it, things would be different.

Sister, right you are - but then that is the issue... We bring differing levels of consciousness to our discussions, and it is the responsibility of those who've risen to higher levels of consciousness to elevate us all.

"Consciouness" needs to be explained to some of us... What is it??? Is it knowledge, wisdom, understanding as we were recently discussing, or is it spiritual in nature??? Is it all of the above??? We make a lot of assumptions, and that includes myself, that folk really understand every thing we bring up in this space... We don't - I don't...

Sometimes I think we need to slow it down, and just explain ourselves, and in laymans' terms, just what it is we are talking about. On the other hand, I believe, we need to get our heads out of the clouds, and be more practical in our desire to elevate one another... I know brother Keita is a Professor, and I respect that immensely... However, not all of us can understand things at maximum intellectual levels... We do need things simplified for us, or we are intimidated... Again, can we explain in layman's terms what "consciousness" is, and what kind of consciousness we are talking about???

Peace!
Isaiah

is it??? Is it knowledge, wisdom, understanding as we were recently discussing, or is it spiritual in nature??? Is it all of the above??? We make a lot of assumptions, and that includes myself, that folk really understand every thing we bring up in this space... We don't - I don't...

Sometimes I think we need to slow it down, and just explain ourselves, and in laymans' terms, just what it is we are talking about. On the other hand, I believe, we need to get our heads out of the clouds, and be more practical in our desire to elevate one another... I know brother Keita is a Professor, and I respect that immensely... However, not all of us can understand things at maximum intellectual levels... We do need things simplified for us, or we are intimidated... Again, can we explain in layman's terms what "consciousness" is, and what kind of consciousness we are talking about???

I think this is a primary struggle that many people face when they want to teach or share their knowledge with others. Not everyone who has achieved great knowledge is able to properly teach what they know, because they are unable to share their lessons in a language that the people will understand.

I think this is a primary struggle that many people face when they want to teach or share their knowledge with others. Not everyone who has achieved great knowledge is able to properly teach what they know, because they are unable to share their lessons in a language that the people will understand.


I agree pan, I also think that people shut their minds off when they feel someone is about to tell them something that they really don't want to hear. No one wants their day ruined and no one wants to have to throw their beliefs away and start all over. It's like when a person starts eating healthy, and they have to throw away everything in their refrigerator because they can no longer eat it. Most people aren't willing to put forth the effort because they fear starting over and leaving their comfort zone.

I agree pan, I also think that people shut their minds off when they feel someone is about to tell them something that they really don't want to hear. No one wants their day ruined and no one wants to have to throw their beliefs away and start all over. It's like when a person starts eating healthy, and they have to throw away everything in their refrigerator because they can no longer eat it. Most people aren't willing to put forth the effort because they fear starting over and leaving their comfort zone.

When we are CHALLENGED to, as Kente said, leave our comfort zones we get "cognitive dissonance." All we hear is noise coming from the source of our discomfort... I think that's why the he-say-she-said stuff gets a lotta play from some of us... Drama doesn't necessarily involve us as thinking human beings... Like the Boob Tube, it enables us to be spectators to the spectacle...

How are we going to change that??? How can we get African people to DESIRE to elevate their consciousness... What is in it for them??? That, I think, is where we have to start... What is in it for a parent who raises a brilliant child??? What is in it for a brother to rather pick up a book as often as he tries to pick up a sister, or attend a business seminar per every movie he goes to see??? How can we get things like that across to people???

Peace!
Isaiah

When we are CHALLENGED to, as Kente said, leave our comfort zones we get "cognitive dissonance." All we hear is noise coming from the source of our discomfort... I think that's why the he-say-she-said stuff gets a lotta play from some of us... Drama doesn't necessarily involve us as thinking human beings... Like the Boob Tube, it enables us to be spectators to the spectacle...

How are we going to change that??? How can we get African people to DESIRE to elevate their consciousness... What is in it for them??? That, I think, is where we have to start... What is in it for a parent who raises a brilliant child??? What is in it for a brother to rather pick up a book as often as he tries to pick up a sister, or attend a business seminar per every movie he goes to see??? How can we get things like that across to people???

Peace!
Isaiah

You know Isaiah, I really don't know how we can wake others up. I'm reading this book called "Mind Control, World Control" and it talks about how the U.S. is using different methods to control the actions of it's population. I run this across black people and all I get is a "O well, this world is going to hell anyways" attitude. Everyone is so content with just laying down and dying because they'd rather do that than fight. This is why it's taking so long for black people to move. This is why so many black folks sell-out, because they figure, if you can't beat em, join em. I rarely (an I can't think of any situations) come across a brotha or sista and tell them something, and they wanted to make an effort to change their behavior or actually follow-up on what I said. It's always the same B/S. I'll tell someone "Don't eat that, it's not good for you. It's been proven to make you sterile" and they say stuff like "Show me where it says that and I'll stop" or "Everything is going to kill us anyways one day". It gets to a point where I actually see why we are moving in reverse as a people. We are totally beaten down and uninterested in picking ourselves back up.


Can you believe that many people have told me that I read TOO much, and I should stop because it's making me paranoid?

Can you believe that many people have told me that I read TOO much, and I should stop because it's making me paranoid?

Brother, this is that QUACK stuff I was talking about in that "Breaking Down the Essence of God" thread... Totally unproven mythological nonsense, and we'd rather deal in that drama stuff, and than real, scientifically proven facts... THe real deal is just not sexy and racy and scandalous enough to capture our people's attention... I think that is why Africans would rather those 3 hours of preachin' on Sunday, than running a profitable business monday through saturday...

Somehow, we've got to build the kind of institutions that re-teach and re-educate our children, so that conversations of these kinds can become common-place with us... I mean, I actually know quite a few folk who are down with the information we discuss at Destees, and what we need to do is get more people networked into that circle of folks around the country...

I think we've blown so many great opportunities to impact on folk when we've had their attention, Kente... For example, the Million Man March... There was such an outrageous fortune to be had had Minister Farrakhan come to us with a really practical plan of action... Instead he stood there talking like he was some kinda numerologist... Whew, I cannot tell you how much that hurt me - still does...

Peace!
Isaiah

I think we've blown so many great opportunities to impact on folk when we've had their attention, Kente... For example, the Million Man March... There was such an outrageous fortune to be had had Minister Farrakhan come to us with a really practical plan of action... Instead he stood there talking like he was some kinda numerologist...

I agree, we have indeed blown many opportunities. We have had black men and women who got media attention, but they chose to join the enemy because the other side didn't bring the same financial rewards or the same prestige. Let's not forget, many of our problems as far as our black leadership goes, were attributed to egos, instead of keeping their eyes on the task at hand. Honestly Isaiah, I don't think the future looks bright for African Americans. I'm just being honest and I hope I'm wrong. I see the materialism and destractions being at an all-time high. We are so far gone now. Even with the few conscious brothas and sista, we can not begin to create as many conscious black people compared to the demons that this country creates. I went to the Black Book Expo in Los Angeles this past Saturday, and there was a decent turn-out. When you compare it to the turn-out for Freak-nik or the "Up in Smoke" concert featuring Snoop Dogg and Jay-Z, you really seee where we're at as people. We'd rather pay good money to see self-hate, than go to a book expo that presents culture and knowledge for free. Go to a bookstore and look at the African American section. Now, I know white people aren't promoting black readers and authors, but money talks to these people. If the demand for black books was great, they'd feature these books in their stores because they're all about making money. The problem is, the demand isn't there unless the book is a trashy "romance" book filled with sex and bad grammar, or it's the "Downlow Brother" type book.

I agree, we have indeed blown many opportunities. We have had black men and women who got media attention, but they chose to join the enemy because the other side didn't bring the same financial rewards or the same prestige. Let's not forget, many of our problems as far as our black leadership goes, were attributed to egos, instead of keeping their eyes on the task at hand. Honestly Isaiah, I don't think the future looks bright for African Americans. I'm just being honest and I hope I'm wrong. I see the materialism and destractions being at an all-time high. We are so far gone now. Even with the few conscious brothas and sista, we can not begin to create as many conscious black people compared to the demons that this country creates. I went to the Black Book Expo in Los Angeles this past Saturday, and there was a decent turn-out. When you compare it to the turn-out for Freak-nik or the "Up in Smoke" concert featuring Snoop Dogg and Jay-Z, you really seee where we're at as people. We'd rather pay good money to see self-hate, than go to a book expo that presents culture and knowledge for free. Go to a bookstore and look at the African American section. Now, I know white people aren't promoting black readers and authors, but money talks to these people. If the demand for black books was great, they'd feature these books in their stores because they're all about making money. The problem is, the demand isn't there unless the book is a trashy "romance" book filled with sex and bad grammar, or it's the "Downlow Brother" type book.


Brother, I agree, and I wonder how did we let it get to this??? I know that the entrance of drugs into our communities in the '80's played a major role, and then we just about relinquished adult control of our communities to the juvenile drug lords... Now their mentality rules the day...

Kente, gotta agree with you that we will probably hit rock bottom before we get our heads out of the sand... Sorry to say...

Peace!
Isaiah

Kente, gotta agree with you that we will probably hit rock bottom before we get our heads out of the sand... Sorry to say...

Peace!
Isaiah

That's the only way that the majority of African Americans will wake up and realize that this country is not theirs. There will have to be a blatant act of aggression towards black people in general in this country, that is not masqueraded by propaganda and lies by the media, in order for black people to get off their butt and do something. As long as the white man allows African Americans to make money and smile on television and dance for the white man, the majority of black people will strive to do just that. There has to be no other choice for black people. If there is any other choice besides confronting the root of our problems, we will take that one without question. That's why it will be a long time before we get out of this situation. That is why the white man has not tried to just straight out kill and exterminate us without making excuses and hiding his intentions. Because he sees how complacent we are. He sees that we are more of a help to him while we're content and happy with crumbs, than chancing a revolution or uprising. Why wake a sleeping giant if you can tip toe around him and steal all his belongings while he's knocked out?

This is why I don't plan on sticking around in America man.

That's the only way that the majority of African Americans will wake up and realize that this country is not theirs. There will have to be a blatant act of aggression towards black people in general in this country, that is not masqueraded by propaganda and lies by the media, in order for black people to get off their butt and do something. As long as the white man allows African Americans to make money and smile on television and dance for the white man, the majority of black people will strive to do just that. There has to be no other choice for black people. If there is any other choice besides confronting the root of our problems, we will take that one without question. That's why it will be a long time before we get out of this situation. That is why the white man has not tried to just straight out kill and exterminate us without making excuses and hiding his intentions. Because he sees how complacent we are. He sees that we are more of a help to him while we're content and happy with crumbs, than chancing a revolution or uprising. Why wake a sleeping giant if you can tip toe around him and steal all his belongings while he's knocked out?


LOL! For Real for sho! It reminds me of what Kwame Ture said so many years ago, and is a chilling reminder of what you're talking about... He said then that the closer a people are to "the culture" the harder it is to get them to revolt against "that culture..." That is where we are at at present... We watch more television than any other group in the country, and our children study less than any other group in the country... That translates into us reading less than any other group in the country, which translates into us being far more ignorant of what makes the world turn than any other group in the country... Could that be why we can't put our brain cells together to create and implement, at least, a 5-year national plan of action for African people???

Think Ima step off of this trane of thought, brother Kente, because it seems I can hear certain folks saying there he goes criticizing Black folks again... We just can't seem to get it unless it's said on a rap video....

Peace!
Isaiah

Peace!
Isaiah

Ever since the first time I saw this thread title, something I read on the `net keeps popping back into my head. I think it relates to what Brother Keita is saying here, but is in truth, rather abstracted from it as well.

It is called "orders of consciousness", put forth by Dr. Robert Kegan. In truth, he speaks more toward "levels of consciousness development" than what, I think, Brother Keita is referring to here, which I take to be "degrees/levels of awareness/knowledge of our history/condition". However, in reviewing the material I collected when I first ran across Dr. Kegan's work, I sense a connection between what the two are saying.

Here is an excerpt from a page introducing the approach (http://www.integralinstitute.org/approach2.htm) of the Integral Institute:
Dr. Robert Kegan of the Harvard Graduate School of Education (and a founding member of Integral Institute) is one of world's leading psychologists and a pioneer in applying developmental theory to adult life and work challenges. In his book In Over our Heads, Kegan documents how modern culture places implicit developmental demands on the average citizen that extend beyond the developmental levels that most other theorists document in today's developmental literature.

Kegan identifies five developmental levels or "orders of consciousness" that define how a person knows the world or constructs reality. The first three levels are similar to those found in today's child and adolescent development texts: impulsive (ages 2-6 yrs), egocentric (6-teens), and socialized or conformist (teens and beyond). Most adults (>80%) in developed nations reach at least the conformist or 3rd order of consciousness, where a person is able to internalize a value system, understand and respect the needs of others, and think abstractly.

In addition to the three commonly accepted stages or orders of consciousness development, Kegan adds two others—autonomous and integral. At the autonomous or 4th order of consciousness, a person becomes "self-authoring"—that is, they become capable of constructing their own value systems as opposed to operating within the value systems given to them by their culture, family, or place of work. And at an integral or 5th order, they begin to bring together and synthesize many different value systems into coherent and meaningful wholes.It seems to me that the connection lies in that the basis for some of the "conflict" that pops up from time to time here on the forum is that we seem to unconsciously, perhaps, lean toward a 4th or 5th order of consciousness, but the "conditioning" of current "concrete" society "demand" that we exhibit a 3rd order of consciousness. That is, we "must conform" and we internalize that "must" to the extent that we ignore, laugh at, argue with anything that seeks to speak "outside of the box". A "self-authoring" or "synthesis" of value systems, I think, would seem to be required to find/develop/restore a balanced "worldview" such that we could unite as a People/Nation. Our different stages of understanding of how we got to where we are, and what we can glean of what remains of where we were, seems to be what keeps the flames flying.


(I think I might have gotten a bit lost there but here's some other stuff that might be of distant interest:
Abstracting this even further afield<g>, I tangented off into what seems to be an area related to Kegan's works: a Thomas Jordan's (http://www.perspectus.se/tjordan/start.html) "dimensions of consciousness development" (http://www.lightmind.com/library/essays/Jordan-01.html). (This link (http://www.google.com/search?q=+%22dimensions+of+consciousness+developme nt%22&hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&start=0&sa=N)is the result of a google search on the above phrase, as there might be some stuff that some might find interesting ... well, if there are others that have a bent for heading off on interesting research-like tangents, that is. <grin>.) Yet another one: Kolberg's stages of moral development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development). Prolly too far afield, or maybe not even relevant to what Brother Keita was looking to say, so I'll stop now ...)


(I hope something of what I think I'm trying to say comes through here, folks. My head is just spinning too hard to keep things straight! I've been up for about 3 hours now and the craving for a smoke is really intense! Kinda makes me wonder that if/when I get past all of this, what are things gonna be like trying to think with a brain that no longer has the cadmium that has been plaguing it for the last 35 years?)

I hope something of what I think I'm trying to say comes through here, folks. My head is just spinning too hard to keep things straight! I've been up for about 3 hours now and the craving for a smoke is really intense! Kinda makes me wonder that if/when I get past all of this, what are things gonna be like trying to think with a brain that no longer has the cadmium that has been plaguing it for the last 35 years?Peace my brother...your scholarly discourses are a great source of enlightenment. I join the others in hoping that you overcome your addiction to nicotine. If you are interested in improving your brain functions, here is an introductory to a book titled Mozart's Brain and the Fighter Pilot by Dr. Richard Restak (Harmony Books):

Would you like to improve your memory, strengthen your attention and concentration, train your powers of logic, and cultivate fine motor skills?

Or maybe you want to heighten your sensory capacities, turn feelings and emotions to your advantage, or stimulate extensive areas of your brain. In short, do you want to become smarter?

How one may accomplish these difficult tasks is the goal of this thoughtful little book by an eminent neuropsychiatrist.

The author, Dr. Richard Restak, who has written extensively on the brain, offers remedies based on the knowledge that everything we think and do alters our brain's physiology.

As Dr. Restak puts it: "Regular exercise of your brain's cognitive powers is the first step. The brain improves the more we challenge it."

Several fundamental principles about the brain's operation are at work here, Dr. Restak points out. One is that the brain is resilient and has a lifetime memory. "Those music and chess circuits can be revived," he writes.

Another is that the brain does not age as we grow older, but does need to be trained to stay in shape. "Use it or lose it," Dr. Restak advises, providing 28 steps to improve brain power, some more difficult than others.

The toughest ones, like circling every example of a specified number or letter within a 10-second period, were devised to improve the focus and attention of fighter pilots.

To revive the music and chess circuits, Dr. Restak recommends that one simply start playing the piano again, or engage in regular chess matches with challenging players.

Other exercises involve trying to guess the time when one wakes up at night, tape-recording casual conversations, reconstructing them in your mind, then comparing them to the tape later, and listening to Mozart to enhance "the optimal functioning of the brain."

If you are seeking a personal trainer for your brain, this book just may be it.

Peace.

Peace my brother...your scholarly discourses are a great source of enlightenment. I join the others in hoping that you overcome your addiction to nicotine. If you are interested in improving your brain functions, here is an introductory to a book titled Mozart's Brain and the Fighter Pilot by Dr. Richard Restak (Harmony Books):

Would you like to improve your memory, strengthen your attention and concentration, train your powers of logic, and cultivate fine motor skills?

Or maybe you want to heighten your sensory capacities, turn feelings and emotions to your advantage, or stimulate extensive areas of your brain. In short, do you want to become smarter?

How one may accomplish these difficult tasks is the goal of this thoughtful little book by an eminent neuropsychiatrist.

The author, Dr. Richard Restak, who has written extensively on the brain, offers remedies based on the knowledge that everything we think and do alters our brain's physiology.

As Dr. Restak puts it: "Regular exercise of your brain's cognitive powers is the first step. The brain improves the more we challenge it."

Several fundamental principles about the brain's operation are at work here, Dr. Restak points out. One is that the brain is resilient and has a lifetime memory. "Those music and chess circuits can be revived," he writes.

Another is that the brain does not age as we grow older, but does need to be trained to stay in shape. "Use it or lose it," Dr. Restak advises, providing 28 steps to improve brain power, some more difficult than others.

The toughest ones, like circling every example of a specified number or letter within a 10-second period, were devised to improve the focus and attention of fighter pilots.

To revive the music and chess circuits, Dr. Restak recommends that one simply start playing the piano again, or engage in regular chess matches with challenging players.

Other exercises involve trying to guess the time when one wakes up at night, tape-recording casual conversations, reconstructing them in your mind, then comparing them to the tape later, and listening to Mozart to enhance "the optimal functioning of the brain."

If you are seeking a personal trainer for your brain, this book just may be it.

Peace.

Just what I need RIGHT Now!

Thank you for bringing this back to the front. Sometimes we all need to remember the "why's when we are in debate and conflict on the forum.

Thank you for bringing this back to the front. Sometimes we all need to remember the "why's when we are in debate and conflict on the forum.

You posted this thread twice and I felt that one point you made in particular is still "slept on".

Again, part of the Confusion.

"Historical Amnesia".

And these Negroes still sleepin'!

I bow and salute you all on this.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Now that is what I Am talking about. Conscious/Subconscious (MIND) levels.

Brother Keita, I was going to start a thread titled: Lets define Conscious and Subconscious. It is Divine to be One in thought with another/another.

Keita: Truth is a bitter pill to swallow,

Oh how SWEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT IT IS when we do swallow It.


Thank you Beloved Keita for being one of many Catalyst/Surgeons of Truth, which we all are once we Know Truth.

:qqb018: :qqb018: :qqb018: :qqb018: