I share in CHUCKY's sentiments....

The term "NEGRESS" was used by the slave master, for the purpose of designating the "prettier" slave girls/women from the less desirable ones.

Negress is no more a compliment than Negro is. People (and I don't mean just one particular person in this threadm but all of us) are smart enough to know that if a white man walked up, calling us (especially the sisters) "Negro and Negress", then we'd be offended.

There is a reason why you never hear any other group of people calling themselves derrogatory names........You never hear the Asians calling themselves "Chink".......You never hear the Latinos calling themselves "Wet Back".......You never hear the Jews calling themselves "Hymies or Kikes"........You never hear white people calling themselves "Honkeys".

We ae the only ones who strive to make a compliment out of an insult.

We are also the only ones who make excuses for calling the White man what he is........whether it's "Devil", or "Cracka @$$ Cracka".

Calling him what he is, does not give him more power, because it shows that we have taken the "Cracking" whip from him :whip:

I think that historically, one of our biggest shortcomings has been the allowance of our inherent compassion to override our strength of reckoning, which is equally inherent.

Just like there is no human alive save my father that will call me "boy or son", there is no human alive that I will allow to say "Negro, Negress, *******, etc" in my presence.

These names have forever tarnished our reputations.....We've gone from one opposite to the other; we were once the "Gods" of this planet, and now we call ourselves "DOGS" (D-A-W-G).....And there's no irony to be found in the fact that that's precisely how we are treated.


PEACE

Brother SAMURAI ... thank you for the above ... i look forward to reading and learning more about these terms.

I've made this post a separate thread, as many have indicated their interest in discussing it, and i don't really want this discussion to bogg down the other.

Thanks Again.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

I share in CHUCKY's sentiments....

The term "NEGRESS" was used by the slave master, for the purpose of designating the "prettier" slave girls/women from the less desirable ones.

Negress is no more a compliment than Negro is. People (and I don't mean just one particular person in this threadm but all of us) are smart enough to know that if a white man walked up, calling us (especially the sisters) "Negro and Negress", then we'd be offended.

There is a reason why you never hear any other group of people calling themselves derrogatory names........You never hear the Asians calling themselves "Chink".......You never hear the Latinos calling themselves "Wet Back".......You never hear the Jews calling themselves "Hymies or Kikes"........You never hear white people calling themselves "Honkeys".

We ae the only ones who strive to make a compliment out of an insult.

We are also the only ones who make excuses for calling the White man what he is........whether it's "Devil", or "Cracka @$$ Cracka".

Calling him what he is, does not give him more power, because it shows that we have taken the "Cracking" whip from him :whip:

I think that historically, one of our biggest shortcomings has been the allowance of our inherent compassion to override our strength of reckoning, which is equally inherent.

Just like there is no human alive save my father that will call me "boy or son", there is no human alive that I will allow to say "Negro, Negress, *******, etc" in my presence.

These names have forever tarnished our reputations.....We've gone from one opposite to the other; we were once the "Gods" of this planet, and now we call ourselves "DOGS" (D-A-W-G).....And there's no irony to be found in the fact that that's precisely how we are treated.


PEACE

Thank you brotha,

You've echoed my sentiments quite eloquently.

Negress..the white man defines it as a black woman or girl...of course they say that because they dont want the black wombman to think he (the white man) is offending them.
If you like being called a n i g g a or a n i g g e r..you wont be bothered by this..but why would u want to be called that.

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/******


I be d@mned if i let someone call me a n i g g a or negress...dont support that word at all. SMH..

http://www.thecode.net/welsinginstitute/******_defined.htm

A "nigress" is a term crackers and their slaves who answer to it allow in speech, its not like "my *****" like some of our People use in a so-called term of endearment, its a female version of ****** in the derogatory sense of the word.Ive seen in devil chatrooms the word nigress used along with negro, niglet, ******, monkey etc...
This is an answer by someone I know.

The Term "Negroe / Negress"


First of all.....

Somebody tell Dan Quayle upthere that negro is spelt WITHOUT an "E" at the end. :wink:



Secondly, I personally don't agree with the term because of the history and connotations behind it; but technically it's no different than using the term "black".

Negro simply means "black" in Spanish.


Lastly, Martin Luther King, as well as Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X and many of our other great black leaders used the term "negro" or "so-called negro" because it was the term for our people at that time.
Should they be defamed and lambasted for using it?

First of all.....

Somebody tell Dan Quayle upthere that negro is spelt WITHOUT an "E" at the end. :wink:



Secondly, I personally don't agree with the term because of the history and connotations behind it; but technically it's no different than using the term "black".

Negro simply means "black" in Spanish.


Lastly, Martin Luther King, as well as Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X and many of our other great black leaders used the term "negro" or "so-called negro" because it was the term for our people at that time.
Should they be defamed and lambasted for using it?

Right, i agree..its just used out of context..when its used as a term of endearment amongst us..that hurts me. when its taken as a compliment that hurts me.

I share in CHUCKY's sentiments....

The term "NEGRESS" was used by the slave master, for the purpose of designating the "prettier" slave girls/women from the less desirable ones.

Negress is no more a compliment than Negro is. People (and I don't mean just one particular person in this threadm but all of us) are smart enough to know that if a white man walked up, calling us (especially the sisters) "Negro and Negress", then we'd be offended.

There is a reason why you never hear any other group of people calling themselves derrogatory names........You never hear the Asians calling themselves "Chink".......You never hear the Latinos calling themselves "Wet Back".......You never hear the Jews calling themselves "Hymies or Kikes"........You never hear white people calling themselves "Honkeys".

We ae the only ones who strive to make a compliment out of an insult.

We are also the only ones who make excuses for calling the White man what he is........whether it's "Devil", or "Cracka @$$ Cracka".

Calling him what he is, does not give him more power, because it shows that we have taken the "Cracking" whip from him :whip:

I think that historically, one of our biggest shortcomings has been the allowance of our inherent compassion to override our strength of reckoning, which is equally inherent.

Just like there is no human alive save my father that will call me "boy or son", there is no human alive that I will allow to say "Negro, Negress, *******, etc" in my presence.

These names have forever tarnished our reputations.....We've gone from one opposite to the other; we were once the "Gods" of this planet, and now we call ourselves "DOGS" (D-A-W-G).....And there's no irony to be found in the fact that that's precisely how we are treated.


PEACE

Brother Samurai, the post was well articulated, but i found this quite interesting...

"These names have forever tarnished our reputations.....We've gone from one opposite to the other; we were once the "Gods" of this planet, and now we call ourselves "DOGS" (D-A-W-G).....And there's no irony to be found in the fact that that's precisely how we are treated."

By "interesting" I mean in my understated way, that you hit the nail with the head of that hammer on that! We choose the most degrading "denigrations" in reference to ourselves, don't we??? I don't think that's an accident... This might be one for the SELF-HATRED thread...

Peace!
Isaiah

DESTEE, I think you are being called "DAN QUAYLE", since you were the one who created this thread on my behalf. :rolleyes:

Also, MALCOLM and MARCUS clearly stated that the term "NEGRO" meant someone who was "blind, deaf and dumb" to their culture and heritage.

It would help of the person quoting these men, had actually READ A BOOK from or about them and their teachings.

PEACE

I don't see Destee's name anywhere up there in the opening, only the name of the person who started this thread.


But like I said, negro means "black" in Spanish no more, no less so technically it's no different than calling ourselves blacks.

However as I've stated in the past, "black" isn't a very accurate term for our people, especially those of us in the Americas.
We are actually various shades of brown so a name indicating our African ancestry is more fitting.

Destee..have you been reading...

Originally posted by SAMURAI36:

It would help of the person quoting these men, had actually READ A BOOK from or about them and their teachings.

Brother SAMURAI is it really necessary to be so disrespectful when responding.

Also, MALCOLM and MARCUS clearly stated that the term "NEGRO" meant someone who was "blind, deaf and dumb" to their culture and heritage.

That was all you had to say. Your point was made. Why capitalize "read a book" indicating that you are loud talking someone. Thats really condescending and unnecessary. I aint tryin to start no crap with you. I'm only hoping that we can be as civil with each other as possible.

Umoja Sasa
Malik

Brother SAMURAI is it really necessary to be so disrespectful when responding.



That was all you had to say. Your point was made. Why capitalize "read a book" indicating that you are loud talking someone. Thats really condescending and unnecessary. I aint tryin to start no crap with you. I'm only hoping that we can be as civil with each other as possible.

Umoja Sasa
Malik

If your intent here is to maintain civility, then start at the source of it, not at the tail end.

I humbly request that you re-read this (and numerous other) thread(s), for the root of the issue.

Capitialization does not always "talking loud". It also implies emphasis, as that is often my main goal.

Back to the topic however, the term NEGRO has always historically had negative connotations for our people, dating back to the Spaniard and Portugese participation in the African Slave Trade and before.

Apparently YET ANOTHER lesson in language is in order:

Making the statement: "Esta persona es negro" (This person is Black) is a different phenomena from saying "MORENO" which means "Black person" or "person of Color".

The former has a strict physiological connotation, whilst the latter has a greater ethnic (and even cultural, considering the origins of the term "Moreno", from the original "MOOR").

There is not a single word in the history of spoken/written language, that does not have an etymological origin to it.

PEACE

Somebody tell Dan Quayle upthere that negro is spelt WITHOUT an "E" at the end. :wink:

Brother Ralfa'il ... uhhhh ... i put that title up there ... :)

Brother SAMURAI had actually posted in another thread, but i let that post be the beginning of this new thread, in an effort to keep the discussions separate.

Yeah ... i know i put the "e" on the end ... i've seen it referenced that way a few times here in the forum, especially recently ... and just went with it.

Adding the "e" (or being referred to as Dan Quayle) doesn't offend me ... :wink:

:heart:

Destee

Brother Ralfa'il ... uhhhh ... i put that title up there ... :)

Brother SAMURAI had actually posted in another thread, but i let that post be the beginning of this new thread, in an effort to keep the discussions separate.

Yeah ... i know i put the "e" on the end ... i've seen it referenced that way a few times here in the forum, especially recently ... and just went with it.

Adding the "e" (or being referred to as Dan Quayle) doesn't offend me ... :wink:

:heart:

Destee


So have you learned anything destee..

We choose the most degrading "denigrations" in reference to ourselves, don't we??? I don't think that's an accident... This might be one for the SELF-HATRED thread...

Brother Isaiah ... now you know this made me smile ... :)

I had to stop and consider ... gosh ... could this be "self-hate" ??

hmmmm ...

the fact that i don't personally find a term offensive ... ??

I already stated that i (obviously) don't know enough about the word, to find it offensive. So if a person does not know, is that still self-hate? I guess it could be argued, that the reason that they don't know, the reason they've not delved deeper into the origin of words and their meanings ... could be a direct reflection on knowing and loving themselves ... and failing to do this ... could be considered self-hate.

This would probably make all of us "self-haters" ... because most of us don't know every word, and how it originated, and if in fact we should be offended upon hearing it.

Oh gosh ... who started this self-hate talk anyway?!!! Let's ban them! :wink:

:heart:

Destee

DESTEE, I think you are being called "DAN QUAYLE", since you were the one who created this thread on my behalf. :rolleyes:

Brother SAMURAI ... i've been called much worse than Dan Quayle ... it's no biggie.

:heart:

Destee

Brother SAMURAI ... i've been called much worse than Dan Quayle ... it's no biggie.

:heart:

Destee
Destee..so do you still find being called a negress non offending

Originally Posted by SAMURAI36:
If your intent here is to maintain civility, then start at the source of it, not at the tail end.

I humbly request that you re-read this (and numerous other) thread(s), for the root of the issue.

Capitialization does not always "talking loud". It also implies emphasis, as that is often my main goal.
Then I aplogize for my misinterpretation.

Umoja Sasa
Malik

PEACE DESTEE:



I already stated that i (obviously) don't know enough about the word, to find it offensive. So if a person does not know, is that still self-hate? I guess it could be argued, that the reason that they don't know, the reason they've not delved deeper into the origin of words and their meanings ... could be a direct reflection on knowing and loving themselves ... and failing to do this ... could be considered self-hate.
:heart:

Destee

The above sentiment is more than just conjecture, it is a principle.

As I'd stated in my original post, you do not hear various other peoples neither calling themselves derrogatory names, nor tolerating it when someone else does.

The Jewish ADL (Anti -Defamation League; see, they even have commitees in place to prevent this sort of thing) makes a list of any and everytime a person, party, etc makes a negative statement towards Jews, be it in the media, on the internet, in public, etc........They make a list of every offender, and spread this list to their Jewish communities the world over.

You can read about the ADL here:

http://www.adl.org/

That's how much they love their people and their culture.

We are not supposed to tolerate such offenses upon our person, cultures, and heritage.

The Jew knows this, while we debate over whether "NEGRESS" is cute.

White people for centuries now, have been calling us ******* and telling us to go to hell, with a smile on their face. Just because a term was meant in a pseudo-endearing manner, does not excuse its insulting origins.

PEACE

Destee..have you been reading...

So have you learned anything destee..

Destee..so do you still find being called a negress non offending

Sister Nisa ... yes, i have been reading, always learning, and am still not offended by Brother Ralfa'il using the term "Negress" when referring to me.

I hear everything that's being shared, and i understand how someone might be offended if they were ever referred to as such ... and i'm just hoping that you all will understand how someone might not be offended as well.

There is no right or wrong here, at least as far as i can see.

We don't all have to be offended by the same things.

First of all ... i don't think i'm easily offended to begin with ... i don't think. My experiences have given me to know that if i were easily offended, i'd stay offended all the time. There is always something one can find to take offense to, if that is what they're seeking.

When a Brother or Sister says something to us, we can pick it apart and focus on the piece(s) we'd like. That's what i did. When Brother Ralfa'il said what he said, i focused on the part i wanted to focus on ... and that was the Spirit in which he interacted with me.

I could have focused on the "fine" or the "Negress" or even on one of the commas or periods ... i mean ... i could have focused on a number of things ... as you all have done ... but we each get to focus on what we want.

There are times when someone says something and you believe their intent is to hurt ... and there are times when someone says something and you believe they mean you no harm. I still don't believe Brother Ralfa'il meant me any harm, and therefore nothing he said caused me any.

In general, if someone called me a "Negress" ... i don't know how i'd respond ... the context in which it was shared must be considered ... as well as my own personal purpose and goal, as my response should reflect those things.

With that being the case, i'd probably overlook it, not even mention it.

I'd consider the opportunity that i had to be an example ... maintain peace and let the small stuff go ... rather than choosing to be offended and making a fuss.

That's just me.

I'm still listening and learning ... and if yall say something that makes me change my mind and be offended with Brother Ralfa'il ... i'll let ya know.

:heart:

Destee

Sister Nisa ... yes, i have been reading, always learning, and am still not offended by Brother Ralfa'il using the term "Negress" when referring to me.

I hear everything that's being shared, and i understand how someone might be offended if they were ever referred to as such ... and i'm just hoping that you all will understand how someone might not be offended as well.

There is no right or wrong here, at least as far as i can see.

We don't all have to be offended by the same things.

First of all ... i don't think i'm easily offended to begin with ... i don't think. My experiences have given me to know that if i were easily offended, i'd stay offended all the time. There is always something one can find to take offense to, if that is what they're seeking.

When a Brother or Sister says something to us, we can pick it apart and focus on the piece(s) we'd like. That's what i did. When Brother Ralfa'il said what he said, i focused on the part i wanted to focus on ... and that was the Spirit in which he interacted with me.

I could have focused on the "fine" or the "Negress" or even on one of the commas or periods ... i mean ... i could have focused on a number of things ... as you all have done ... but we each get to focus on what we want.

There are times when someone says something and you believe their intent is to hurt ... and there are times when someone says something and you believe they mean you no harm. I still don't believe Brother Ralfa'il meant me any harm, and therefore nothing he said caused me any.

In general, if someone called me a "Negress" ... i don't know how i'd respond ... the context in which it was shared must be considered ... as well as my own personal purpose and goal, as my response should reflect those things.

With that being the case, i'd probably overlook it, not even mention it.

I'd consider the opportunity that i had to be an example ... maintain peace and let the small stuff go ... rather than choosing to be offended and making a fuss.

That's just me.

I'm still listening and learning ... and if yall say something that makes me change my mind and be offended with Brother Ralfa'il ... i'll let ya know.

:heart:

Destee

Okayee..welp...that bothers me that it doesnt bother you..welp to each its own..i'll stay on my side of the fence..and move on to a different site. I cant see myself being involved on a site better yet monetarily support a site,where the administrator isn't bothered by being called a negress..but at the same time wants to uplift her people..thats just plain backwards.

Okayee..welp...that bothers me that it doesnt bother you..welp to each its own..i'll stay on my side of the fence..and move on to a different site. I cant see myself being involved on a site better yet monetarily support a site,where the administrator isn't bothered by being called a negress..but at the same time wants to uplift her people..thats just plain backwards.

Sister Nisa ... we will miss you ... God Bless.

:heart:

Destee

Sister Nisa ... we will miss you ... God Bless.

:heart:

Destee

Yep, I know you will. Black Power *pumps fist*

I share in CHUCKY's sentiments....

The term "NEGRESS" was used by the slave master, for the purpose of designating the "prettier" slave girls/women from the less desirable ones.

Negress is no more a compliment than Negro is. People (and I don't mean just one particular person in this threadm but all of us) are smart enough to know that if a white man walked up, calling us (especially the sisters) "Negro and Negress", then we'd be offended.

There is a reason why you never hear any other group of people calling themselves derrogatory names........You never hear the Asians calling themselves "Chink".......You never hear the Latinos calling themselves "Wet Back".......You never hear the Jews calling themselves "Hymies or Kikes"........You never hear white people calling themselves "Honkeys".

We ae the only ones who strive to make a compliment out of an insult.

We are also the only ones who make excuses for calling the White man what he is........whether it's "Devil", or "Cracka @$$ Cracka".

Calling him what he is, does not give him more power, because it shows that we have taken the "Cracking" whip from him :whip:

I think that historically, one of our biggest shortcomings has been the allowance of our inherent compassion to override our strength of reckoning, which is equally inherent.

Just like there is no human alive save my father that will call me "boy or son", there is no human alive that I will allow to say "Negro, Negress, *******, etc" in my presence.

These names have forever tarnished our reputations.....We've gone from one opposite to the other; we were once the "Gods" of this planet, and now we call ourselves "DOGS" (D-A-W-G).....And there's no irony to be found in the fact that that's precisely how we are treated.


PEACE


Actually I know some latinos that call themselves wetbacks but its just stupid isht man

Yep, I know you will. Black Power *pumps fist*

NISA, you know where you'll always have a home (C2G). :missu:

Sister Nisa ... yes, i have been reading, always learning, and am still not offended by Brother Ralfa'il using the term "Negress" when referring to me.

I hear everything that's being shared, and i understand how someone might be offended if they were ever referred to as such ... and i'm just hoping that you all will understand how someone might not be offended as well.

There is no right or wrong here, at least as far as i can see.

We don't all have to be offended by the same things.

First of all ... i don't think i'm easily offended to begin with ... i don't think. My experiences have given me to know that if i were easily offended, i'd stay offended all the time. There is always something one can find to take offense to, if that is what they're seeking.

When a Brother or Sister says something to us, we can pick it apart and focus on the piece(s) we'd like. That's what i did. When Brother Ralfa'il said what he said, i focused on the part i wanted to focus on ... and that was the Spirit in which he interacted with me.

I could have focused on the "fine" or the "Negress" or even on one of the commas or periods ... i mean ... i could have focused on a number of things ... as you all have done ... but we each get to focus on what we want.

There are times when someone says something and you believe their intent is to hurt ... and there are times when someone says something and you believe they mean you no harm. I still don't believe Brother Ralfa'il meant me any harm, and therefore nothing he said caused me any.

In general, if someone called me a "Negress" ... i don't know how i'd respond ... the context in which it was shared must be considered ... as well as my own personal purpose and goal, as my response should reflect those things.

With that being the case, i'd probably overlook it, not even mention it.

I'd consider the opportunity that i had to be an example ... maintain peace and let the small stuff go ... rather than choosing to be offended and making a fuss.

That's just me.

I'm still listening and learning ... and if yall say something that makes me change my mind and be offended with Brother Ralfa'il ... i'll let ya know.

:heart:

Destee

DESTEE, I'm curious........If this brother had instead said "DESTEE, you know you are a fine ***".......

How would you have felt about that?

You do realize that many of our less-educated and less-refined brethren refer to our sisters in this manner? To them, it's a term of "endearment"; no harm necessarily meant.

But does that make it appropriate to refer to our Sistren in this manner?

I'd like to also point out, that "no harm intended", does not negate "no harm committed".

The path to Hell is paved with the best of intentions.

PEACE

DESTEE, I'm really curious:

How do you balance your refusal to become "offended" with the offense of others?

How is it that you can perpetually come to the defense of the indefensible, yet with such a casual statement:

Sister Nisa ... we will miss you ... God Bless.

Wish off one of the most humble and positive sisters on this and any other site?

I've read nearly every thread on this site. I have NEVER witnessed NISA being purposefully disrespectful to anyone here--nor have I seen that she was received as such.

However, you have an..........."INDIVIDUAL" (I shall honor the wishes of others, and refrain from using the term that most suits him) who very few people care for, respect, or tolerate.

I could see if I was just speaking on my own behalf, but I can site NUMEROUS times when moderators, Elders, and other more objective individuals (especially Sisters) have found him to be intolerable.

However, we see you not only defending him at every turn, but also venerating him with terms of esteem such as "knowledge and wisdom".........

Really??

Where is the wisdom, where people have to continuously question him on his behavior, whether it's disrespectful comments to women (up to and including to YOU, apparently unbenknownst to you), or other people's beliefs and cultures, or instigative statements........??

Where is the knowledge, when most of the things that he allows to fall from his mind to his fingers to the key board is not only incorrect, but he also goes the extra mile to rebuke intellectual instruction?

9 out of 9.5 times, he has no clue as to what he's talking about, but rather than admit this, he'd rather dance to the tune of foolishness than learn amongst the many knowledgeable Black people here.

Where is the knowledge and wisdom, that you hold in such high regard from him?

NISA posed a powerful question; how do you manage to ask for financial support from a people whose wishes you would not honor?



Just because you were not offended, does not mean others were not:

when its used as a term of endearment amongst us..that hurts me. when its taken as a compliment that hurts me.


Destee..have you been reading...

So have you learned anything destee..

Destee..so do you still find being called a negress non offending

3 times the C ock crowed, and thrice this Sister was denied. She did all that she could to point out to you, that she was offended.

Others were offended..........I was offended for you, as a Black man for a Black woman.

How do you make a thread about "SELF-HATE", and not see the symptoms within yourself?

Yet a beautiful sister leaves, and she seems to be casually wished off, while the presence of a counterproductive, irreverent.........."INDIVIDUAL" is justified by the most unjustifiable means.



*SIGH* :(

And thus, here I stand, on the cusp of a decision of my own, contemplating whether I should follow my integrity and show support of my sister, or stay and "fight the good fight", for the sake of others, who have called upon the service of my Blade here.



I suppose that the moral of this lesson for me, is that I love my Black Woman, even when she does not have the strength and courage to love herself.........And even when she does.

HOTEP

Why is everyone here so down on Destee not being offended???

Some people object, in fact they're fightin words, to use the term son of a bi##ch since they see it as a reference to they're mom. To others it's just a saying.

Destee has a right to feel anyway she likes about a words meaning or lack of, as it affects her. Geez it isn't even a word that's used anymore, at least not by anyone I've ever talked to.

Why is everyone here so down on Destee not being offended???

Some people object, in fact they're fightin words, to use the term son of a bi##ch since they see it as a reference to they're mom. To others it's just a saying.

Destee has a right to feel anyway she likes about a words meaning or lack of, as it affects her. Geez it isn't even a word that's used anymore, at least not by anyone I've ever talked to.


:lol: boy oh boy.. its more than a word..thats the big problem..smdh

Why is everyone here so down on Destee not being offended???

In all honesty, I don't think you're seeing the greater picture.

Some people object, in fact they're fightin words, to use the term son of a bi##ch since they see it as a reference to they're mom. To others it's just a saying.

Not "Son of a B!TICH"..........How about someone calling you just plain old "******"??

Is that not offensive to you??

Destee has a right to feel anyway she likes about a words meaning or lack of, as it affects her. Geez it isn't even a word that's used anymore, at least not by anyone I've ever talked to.

Just because it's not used by people you know, doesn't mean it's not used.

And that's not the point anyways. SOMEONE was offended........What's next, "******es and hoes"?

PEACE

In all honesty, I don't think you're seeing the greater picture.



Not "Son of a B!TICH"..........How about someone calling you just plain old "******"??

Is that not offensive to you??

[qutoe]Destee has a right to feel anyway she likes about a words meaning or lack of, as it affects her. Geez it isn't even a word that's used anymore, at least not by anyone I've ever talked to.

Just because it's not used by people you know, doesn't mean it's not used.

And that's not the point anyways. SOMEONE was offended........What's next, "******es and hoes"?

PEACE[/QUOTE]


Lol Samurai its like a black man fighting for the people..and someone comes up and says you're a fine @$$ n*gger..and they cheese and smile and blush...and embrace it...the people looking like..how you dont find being called a n*gger offensive but you tryna uplift us...lol think of what will happen...lol

In all honesty, I don't think you're seeing the greater picture.



Not "Son of a B!TICH"..........How about someone calling you just plain old "******"??

Is that not offensive to you??



Just because it's not used by people you know, doesn't mean it's not used.

And that's not the point anyways. SOMEONE was offended........What's next, "******es and hoes"?

PEACE

I get the big picture. I'm saying a word only has power over me if I let it. I will let someone know if I'm offended by a word ****** happens to be one of them. Not everyone is offended by the word though.

As far as negress being banned because someone is offended that's up to the moderators. What this thread turned into was chastizing Destee for not being offended.

If people want to leave this sight over a word or idea that's their choice.

Yep, I know you will. Black Power *pumps fist*Okay nisa, i just want to say that , i think you forgot the site's motto(We are about Loving, Encouraging, Embracing, Teaching and Building with our people.
NO HATE ALLOWED!
THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD CHANCE FOR YOU TO TEACH AND BUILD UP, BUT INSTEAD YOU ALLOWED OLD HAUNTS TO SCREEN WHO YOU ARE, ALONGTIME AGO WE ALL KNOW ABOUT SLAVERY OKAY, AND I KNOW OUR GENERATION IS STILL DEALING WITH SOME FORM OF RACISM AMONGST ALL THIS BIRACIAL MARRIAGES THAT ARE GOING ON, I GUESS I FEEL LIKE YOU ARE TRYING TO FORCE YOUR OPINIONS ON PEOPLE AND I SAY THAT KINDLY, ITS OKAY TO GET OFFENDED BY SOMETHING AND TO ACT ON IT, BUT I THINK I WOULD TAKE MORE OFFENSE IF SOMEONE CALLED ME SELFISH OR RUDE OR ABUSIVE OR CONTROLLING, I THINK WHEN WE TELL SOMEONE THAT IF THEY SAY SOMETHING THAT YOU WILL TAKE THIS ACTION OR ELSE, ITS TRYING TO CONTROL SOMEONE ELSE, WITHIN ANY FAMILY THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE SALT SHAKED, BUT THE SWEETNESS WITHIN THE FAMILY SHOULD SPREAD OVER UNTIL THERE IS NOTHING BUT THE GENIUNE SWEETNESS THAT WAS THERE IN THE BEGININING, DESTEE I HUMBLY COME BEFORE YOU BECAUSE I WANT TO TELL YOU THAT YOUR COMPASSION AND PATIENCE ON THIS MATTER MADE ME PROUD TO KNOW ALL OF YOU HERE, IT LETS ME KNOW THAT I CAN SAY ANYTHING WITHIN MEANS AND STILL FIND CRITIQUE BUT LOVE HERE, I AM SO SORRY NISA THAT YOU FEEL THAT BLACK POWER MEANS BEING HATEFUL AND DISRESPECTFUL, I DONT THINK DR. KING WOULD AGREE WITH YOU, WITH LOVE I SAY THIS. :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers:

use Negro all the time.
am i now insulting people?

this sounds too deep for me.

as far as i know Negro means black and Negress means a female black.
how is that an insult?

it sounds so silly, what am i missing?

Actually....

"Negress" sounds a little sexy to me.....kind of like "Mistress".

Freedom of speech and freedom of association. That's what it's all about. Save the exit for more trying times.

Man, I don't read all of the posts on these threads because I've got a life to live, thank God, but if Destee says she accepts being called that, then I'd like you to clarify that, Lil Mama...

Frankly, whenever I call a sister a "Negress" she may not know it, but I might as well be calling her something worse than the B-word... That is how much contempt I've got for a Negro or Negress, because they personify and embody the most reprobate and scandalous and milquetoast of our group... They are the Clarence Thomases, Shelby Steele's, Armstrong Williamses, and Ward Connerly's of the world, and I have nothing but scorn for folk of that ilk... If one doesn't know the meaning of the word, then they've got a pass, but if they do, and accept being called Negro, like Stanley Crouch, then they are mad LOST as a human being...

I don't see this as the case with Destee AT ALL... If she said it to sarcastically respond to Samurai, she made a false step... Things like that can be exceedingly tricky, and can be read just as Nisa has read things... I don't think you are handling things well in ignoring sister Nisa either, Destee... I do believe she deserves a response from you, no matter what that response is... Destee, PERHAPS, we can move away from this drama, the enormous waste of time and energy, with your response to Nisa???

As for you, my brother Samurai, I don't know what your role is in this, but spder senses telling me that there's some ill will between yourself and Destee, and you and Destee should handle that separately, without you fanning the flames for Nisa, good brother... Sometimes we say we're all about progressive action, but our actions are more retrogressive than we realize... You think that pointing out what Destee said without straightforwardly requesting an explanation from her is progressive for this community??? I will leave you to answer that question...

Peace!
Isaiah

Isaiah

First check this link bro...

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34832&page=4&pp=10

Destee NEVER said she liked being called a Negress.

Isaiah

I'm not gonna attempt to speak for Destee, Nisa, Sam, or anyone else but let me see if I can help make things a little more clear from MY point of view.


Apparently Nisa and Sek first had some issues with Destee NOT having a problem with the word negro.

When I read it, I asked Destee since she doesn't find the term negro offensive, I jokingly asked her how would she mind being called a "fine Negress" (wasn't joking about the fine part).

She took it in stride and moved on.

But Nisa and Chucky still had a problem with both negro and now negress and continued the debate.

Maybe Sam was already angry about Destee checking him on disrespecting Martin Luther King, and plus he saw an opportunity to fan flames in my direction so he kept pushing her about the word "negress" almost to the point of harassment.
She apparently had to start another thread for him to vent himself in and Nisa who was alread pissed about the "negro" issue followed him into it.

Now that's MY handle on what happened so far and I'm still reading into it.

Nisa

:lol: boy oh boy.. its more than a word..thats the big problem..smdh

I'm sorry but I must disagree. A word is just a word... Nothing in this world is absolute. A person's viewpoint and opinions make all the difference. I understand where you are coming from.. but such drastic measures? I hate the word *****.. ******... i had never understood the word negro.. until i realized it simply meant black..

I understand that the source of your discontent is the symbolism behind such words.... but the times have changed and people...( sadly we ourselves) have lost touch with such symbolism... most don't even know what the word SYMBOLISM means.... yet the words represent our oppression... but not to those born in this new generation. They have lost touch with what was, with the emotion and strength with which words can be delivered.

I am a poet... and from what i have seen of you.. you are a great one also.. i would like for you to take the time and read my work before you discredit me. I grew up with racism.. in racist classes and in a racist school system.. i am socially conscience.. i understand. The pain it causes me is almost unbearable, but there are some fights that must not be fought.. some that are not worth the fight. They are only words as long as they are not spoken in the midst of those we fight against and they can remain only words... as my mother has said " what starts or is spoken at home, remains at home."

I cannot speak for Destee but it seems that she has ignored those words.. ignored the symbolism as i sometimes am forced to do... words are only words... At times they carry the weight of emotion and of unreasonable thoughts... yet at other times they carry no weight whatsoever... It may have been one of those times...

I regret that our people haven't grabbed hold to the concept that those words are not for us to use.. yet they have every right to use words that for them have no meaning... they bring their experiences to the table and use their own viewpoints to write their own book of symbolism..

You must accept this or be patient enough to try to educate those in what such means.. yet if they don't accept it we all have to be reasonable and accept their opinions.. accept the fact that not all view it the same and move on.. we should not let the dispute of a mere word seperate us and slow the ascension of our people.

My older sistah Destee has grown with the times and realizes such... why can't You?




BioRhythm.... I dance to the beat of lifes drums...... My own heart setting the pace...

Isaiah

I'm not gonna attempt to speak for Destee, Nisa, Sam, or anyone else but let me see if I can help make things a little more clear from MY point of view.


Apparently Nisa and Sek first had some issues with Destee NOT having a problem with the word negro.

When I read it, I asked Destee since she doesn't find the term negro offensive, I jokingly asked her how would she mind being called a "fine Negress" (wasn't joking about the fine part).

She took it in stride and moved on.

But Nisa and Chucky still had a problem with both negro and now negress and continued the debate.

Maybe Sam was already angry about Destee checking him on disrespecting Martin Luther King, and plus he saw an opportunity to fan flames in my direction so he kept pushing her about the word "negress" almost to the point of harassment.
She apparently had to start another thread for him to vent himself in and Nisa who was alread pissed about the "negro" issue followed him into it.

Now that's MY handle on what happened so far and I'm still reading into it.


Got It, Brother Ralfa'il, and it as I thought... Well, I am gonna move on from this... I do not believe the word "NEGRO" or "NEGRESS" should be banned because I want full and free access to spank one when they need a good beatin' :garbage: Please don't take my Whip from me... That would be worse than leaving home without the AE, yo!(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

Nisa



I'm sorry but I must disagree. A word is just a word... Nothing in this world is absolute. A person's viewpoint and opinions make all the difference. I understand where you are coming from.. but such drastic measures? I hate the word *****.. ******... i had never understood the word negro.. until i realized it simply meant black..

I understand that the source of your discontent is the symbolism behind such words.... but the times have changed and people...( sadly we ourselves) have lost touch with such symbolism... most don't even know what the word SYMBOLISM means.... yet the words represent our oppression... but not to those born in this new generation. They have lost touch with what was, with the emotion and strength with which words can be delivered.

I am a poet... and from what i have seen of you.. you are a great one also.. i would like for you to take the time and read my work before you discredit me. I grew up with racism.. in racist classes and in a racist school system.. i am socially conscience.. i understand. The pain it causes me is almost unbearable, but there are some fights that must not be fought.. some that are not worth the fight. They are only words as long as they are not spoken in the midst of those we fight against and they can remain only words... as my mother has said " what starts or is spoken at home, remains at home."

I cannot speak for Destee but it seems that she has ignored those words.. ignored the symbolism as i sometimes am forced to do... words are only words... At times they carry the weight of emotion and of unreasonable thoughts... yet at other times they carry no weight whatsoever... It may have been one of those times...

I regret that our people haven't grabbed hold to the concept that those words are not for us to use.. yet they have every right to use words that for them have no meaning... they bring their experiences to the table and use their own viewpoints to write their own book of symbolism..

You must accept this or be patient enough to try to educate those in what such means.. yet if they don't accept it we all have to be reasonable and accept their opinions.. accept the fact that not all view it the same and move on.. we should not let the dispute of a mere word seperate us and slow the ascension of our people.

My older sistah Destee has grown with the times and realizes such... why can't You?




BioRhythm.... I dance to the beat of lifes drums...... My own heart setting the pace...

Bio, lil brotha, that was brilliant! A young African man with a sharp philosophical mind, you are... We are blessed to have you at this forum...

Peace!
Isaiah

Personally, I choose to call myself black or AfroAmerican.


But I'm still trying to figure out how can people get so pissed off and taken aback by the word "negro" when so many of our people are running up and down the streets calling eachother "niggga" all day long.

Niggga to me is actually more offensive than negro because it's just a mispronounciation of the word "*******".


I'm in my early 30s but I remember a time when we used to didn't call eachother that around white people, only among eachother.

Now I see young cats all up and down the street shouting it at eachother, all on the trains. Even at work.

Personally, I choose to call myself black or AfroAmerican.


But I'm still trying to figure out how can people get so pissed off and taken aback by the word "negro" when so many of our people are running up and down the streets calling eachother "niggga" all day long.

Niggga to me is actually more offensive than negro because it's just a mispronounciation of the word "*******".


I'm in my early 30s but I remember a time when we used to didn't call eachother that around white people, only among eachother.

Now I see young cats all up and down the street shouting it at eachother, all on the trains. Even at work.

Brother Sun Ralfa'il, ya hot today, yo!(smile!)

We get Bent over stuff - all of us - that probably aint gots nothing to do with what we're REALLY bent about... We gots NEGROES out here wearing bling with the words ***** and QUEEN B. across their necks, and JUICY written on the back of their pants... We support Rap artists who say they'd sell drugs to their mama if she'd buy 'em... That's a group I've got serious problems with, not a sister who has created a community for me to come and converse with African people of like mind...

I'll be over in the ELDERS thread, OldSoul, James, and Pdiane are dropping bombs of knowledge, and we're over here with this drama... I am starting to be a disciple of James theory that we're a people with some serious mental challenges to overcome on a collective level...

Peace!
Isaiah

Peace!
Isaiah

is there anything i can call myself that will not offend anyone?

im confused
there are so many words that are offensive when in context that we can be sitting here debating about...
black
colored
negroid
ppl of color
and so on- they have a book : The color of Words: an Encyclopedic Dictionary of Ethnic Bias in the US(Phillip H Herbert)

i raised the question of the defintion of the word BLAck- and i which that thread got this much attn

anything can be turned and twisted to taking offensive now and days- its simply now a matter of agree to disgree. ppl disagree and are offended everyday but they dont run and hide, commit suicide because they cant stand the world ignornce. thats the whole point of opinions and education.

shoot i was offended by the thread directed towards blacks not needing hispanics- being that i am mixed with both. but yet i didnt rant and rave and create further problems. life is gonna be a struggle and a test. ppl are going to disagree. my moms always said we cant live for other ppl. why burden yourself with everyone else problems- it dont make life an easier.

its just sad we (as ppl) are debatting the use of a word. we should be debating actions in our community. and uplifting topics. rather than something that seemed to turn into a purpose ultimatum or conflict.

and this is why we cant come up....

............am still not offended by Brother Ralfa'il using the term "Negress" when referring to me.

I hear everything that's being shared, and i understand how someone might be offended if they were ever referred to as such ...

There is no right or wrong here, at least as far as i can see.



Are you simply hearing it or are you processing it? How can you say there is no wrong here? Accepting the devil's derogatory labels is a form of self-hate as well as lack of knowledge of self.

The greatest trick the devil ever pull was: Convincing the Black man that he wasn't God.

Peace sister,

Freedom is a road seldom travelled by the multitude.

I am with daroc-

Except-

I wish THIS thread that I started awhile back got THIS much attention:
http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32405

Words are nothing. The Devil is full of words - do I get offended by him when he tempts me? NO!

Let me ask you this Fam:

What hurts worse - Calling me a dark *** ******, or stabbing me in the chest?

You will have to KILL me to hurt me! I can rant and rave all day on this site about how weak words are to me. The only words that I take serious, are the words spoken to me by all-mighty creator.....GOD! Nobody else!

A while back, Brother Manasiac disagreed with something I believed in, and he replied with a post referring to me as both "Pimp Ced" and Totalitarian Ced." I might have gone overboard in trying to prove my point to him, but was I offended - NO! Was I hurt - NO! Did I learn from the discussion him and I had - Absolutely! And that is why we do not have that problem up to today. You live and learn.

What Destee did when she ignored her (at first), is what I did throughout my childhood, and look what a difference it made! By listening to the demons coming onto me, I would have stood beofre you today a potential ex-con, and an extremely self-hating individual, with no vision. I thank God for givign me that ability to avoid allowing words to hurt me, and I do not apologize for it.

CD

Are you simply hearing it or are you processing it? How can you say there is no wrong here? Accepting the devil's derogatory labels is a form of self-hate as well as lack of knowledge of self.

The greatest trick the devil ever pull was: Convincing the Black man that he wasn't God.

Peace sister,

Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitude.


http://sonsofthediaspora.org
don't even try it.
do not question her.
look in the mirror.

until you can tell me why all the "smart" brothers are here fighting like cats and dogs, it really doesn't matter.

Someone made the point that "negro" is Spanish for "black". Herein lies the problem. This is a name that was place upon the by the European oppressor. (Can someone tell me what the Ki-swahili word is for "black"?) I refuse to call myself a negro. (Think about why Elijah Muhammad used the term "so-called Negro".)

How do I refer to myself? ...Black(with a capital "B") or Afrikan (with a "k" instead of a "c"). Anything else is a misnomer

I will continue to use the word negro. Not as name calling but as a way for identify or tag lost or runaway Afrikan traitors. It is important to identify and segregate those among us who love our people and our about nationbuilding from those agents who faithfully serve the enemy.

negro is a badge of dishonor.

We all should consider our words carefully and we transition and mature as Warrior-scholars.


Peace,
Lazarus
Come out of her, my people!

Negro is a badge of dishonor.

that is a bunch of bull.

how dare you come into my face and tell me that i am dishonored?
who put you in charge of honor?
who are you?

keep your concepts to yourself and i will do the same.

if you are all that, you would know of a way to work with people rather than alienating them.

to all of you people who purport to be on a high spiritual, cultural or mystical level.
if you, all of you, are on the level that you think you are on, explain to me why you are all on this site fighting like street corner gangs?
if your cultural knowledge simply allows you to trade more sophisticated insult, perhaps it is of no use to us.

that is a bunch of bull.

how dare you come into my face and tell me that i am dishonored?
who put you in charge of honor?
who are you?


First, let me say I'm not in your face. But, I'm not too far from Philly. Perhaps that can be arranged. Listen, James I'll be glad to take this off-line. (email me @ lazarus@sonsofthediaspora.org)

Your questions (above) don't even make sense to me.

My comments were not directed to you. ...Unless you are "lost or runaway Afrikan traitors", that I (emphasis on "I") referred to as negroes. If so, you are justified with be offended and I offer no apology.

keep your concepts to yourself and i will do the same. Wait, I thought that was the point of a discussion forum.;To share your, as you say, "concepts". I'm very interested in your concepts and the others here.


if you are all that, you would know of a way to work with people rather than alienating them.

Not my intent.

What is going on here, it's like one fight after another.

Peace y'all. Let's have peace here.

.
Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome
.
:teach: :teach: :teach: :teach: :teach: :teach: :teach: :teach: :teach: :teach: :teach: :teach: :teach: :teach:
.

WHAT: Consciousness Raising Online Class !!!

TOPIC: Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35045)

WHO: All of Us!

WHEN: Sunday, June 12, 2005 !!!

TIME: 3 pm ET - 4 pm ET

WHERE: Our Voice Chat Room - destee.com/chat (http://destee.com/chat)

HOW: Brother OldSoul will Lead Us!

WHY: Cause we're Blessed like that! ... :teach:


Join Us Sunday 3 pm ET @ destee.com/chat (http://destee.com/chat)


:heart:

Destee

ps ... this thread is closed.

Peace and Blessings Family,

It seems some of us are offended by the term Negroe and Negress ... just like the N word.

How about you?

:heart:

Destee

oops Family ... lol ... i didn't realize this thread had been closed! :eeek:

I think i'll open it back up ... and we'll see how it goes ... :)

Thanks Brother anAfrican ... :love:

:heart:

Destee

Peace and Blessings Family,

It seems some of us are offended by the term Negroe and Negress ... just like the N word.

How about you?

:heart:

Destee


Okay, now this is where I may take some more heat.

"Negro"....that is a term which specifically has been used to denote a specific race or color.

"Negus" or "N-g-r" denote class....defined as "King" and "God", according to AFRICAN languages.

These terms are quite different and I admit to sometimes use the word "Negro" as a put down. I doubt if any thinking Black conscious person today will identify with being called a "Negro".

I doubt if any thinking Black conscious person today will identify with being called a "Negro".
i do. i missed the memo that negro was a put down.

I am a black man period. you can call me a negro. Calling me the n word might lead to health problems. If you want to call me a enlightened spiritual warrior,that is great. My lady and life partner is a tigress,because she has my back and family,and unflinching courage,because she is a strong arse Black Woman!

Be Blessed and stay strong!

Love her constantly,consistently and with concern.

I am a black man period. you can call me a negro. Calling me the n word might lead to health problems. If you want to call me a enlightened spiritual warrior,that is great. My lady and life partner is a tigress,because she has my back and family,and unflinching courage,because she is a strong arse Black Woman!

Be Blessed and stay strong!

Love her constantly,consistently and with concern.
welcome to the destee forums.......:hi:

We live this life and sometimes we meet wise souls. Hi ya brotha James! Stay strong and keep being you Big brother.

Man, it just getting bad. We don't know what to call ourselves anymore. I liked being called Negro. To me it had diginty and pride. it was the generation before me that said we should be just Black, my little voice was not heard. We were called "black *******" and my uncles generation said just call me by my first name. Black.
P.S. Don't you feel it when 'they' say black, they say it like they are leaving something off, listen.

A true story. One day several years ago. My children a boy and girl ranging in age from seven to five had asked me on several occasions colors and certain items concerning everything about preferences.

After this day and bonding with my two kids,they had one thing to say to their mother. "Mom do you know,what daddy loves,and he says it with a deep voice." "Nah i don't? What's he been saying to my babies?" My wife said.
"He loves Black mommy!" They said together. "He said it all with emphasis like that huh." "Why you said that daddy she looking at me beaming said." " I say the word with love and pride,and when they here it come from another place they can discern the difference." I said.

In a totality of growing i think,that this has stuck with my two children,and they are,if nothing else high on the word BLACK and dripping with emphasis!

Love her constantly,consistently,and with concern. Peace!

there is an excellent book written on about the history of the name negro[the word negro and it's evil uses]all i will say is this black people,if from birth you had been called sh&t and not known any other name you would have though nothing of it,but when you had learned that the name was offensive and degrading you would want to be called by another name.

Disclaimer: This was initially a reply to the thread, but during the course of typing it became a rant. There were a few things I wanted to get off my chest, especially after yesterday’s conversation with some co-workers. I understand my view very well may be in the minority and quite unpopular; I accept that and respect anyone’s right to disagree. I just wanted to be heard out and do not intend to offend anyone, although I wish to spark discussion and reflection.


Greetings all,

Negro, in my opinion, is the ultimate slur word to call a person of African descent. I'll tell you why I think so. Where is Negroland? Negro comes from the spanish word meaning "black". True, indeed, slavery helped to erase the various ethnic identities of our ancestors, but at some point in time, we were Igbo, Yoruba, Bambara, Dagomba, Bakongo, etc., before we were Negro. Negro implies to me something American created and American breed, with no past and possibly no future. Negro has no sense of his/her past and therefore no sense of his/her future. Negro's ethnicity is American, thus American Negro - a phenomena or people that only exist in America. So from my reasoning, a Negro's ancestral history begins no further than slavery in America and his legacy is his struggle in America to prove he is equal and should be seen as a natural citizen. The Negro’s only aspirations are to reach to the higher echelons of American society. Negro history is a bragging about being the first Black man or woman to be “such and such” or “so and so”. It becomes a sense of pride for Negroes; a badge to flash around to speak to the testament of their strength, but still they are slaves. It's a disempowering position, consisting of trying to be a measure against someone else’s standards and mores. Understand a people born as slaves to other people can never be equals to their masters, only subservient.

Secondly, a Negro does things with no knowledge of why he does it. A Negro also believes in things without truly understanding why she believes in them. A Negro consumes, but produces nothing to sustain him or herself for the benefit of the Negro. Negroes believes it okay to speak negatively of or commit destructive acts against other Negroes while all the time questioning what’s wrong with Negroes. A solution is rarely uttered from the mouth of a Negro because when they speak about the problems of Negroes, they are never really serious about it and could actually care less about other Negroes as long as they got their nice house, flashy clothes, good music, fly car and other trinkets to gloat at. It’s like the calico blankets Masa used to buy for his breeder negress for each child she provides him with. Negroes make me sick. I dislike Negroes.

One elder, Wade Nobles, once was heard saying, "Power is the ability to define reality and have others respond to your definition as if it were their own."

To accept the Europeans' description of us is to succumb perennially to their power. The yoke is never removed, only enhanced by the servant peoples’ own doing. The independence to make your own perceived decisions, although it was initially influenced by others, feels like freedom for people who were enslaved or who have slave minds. A Negro indiscriminately embraces the reality give him or her, no matter how destructive it is, and assimilates it into part of the experience of Black in America and as a gauge of Blackness. Others create stereotypes or images for the Negro and with lack of his past, the Negro incorporates those types into the Negro self-image and becomes the living caricature of the white supremacist's imagination.

I have inverted Dr. Nobles definition of power to, "Self-Power is the ability to define reality for yourself and then create a reality and world based on that definition."

If I recall correctly I believe I told the story of my grandmother here on Destee about us being "beautiful people". Being that my paternal grandfather was Comanche (Numu), I am fascinated by First Nation cultures and have studied them as I have African ones. All First Nation people have native names for their respective groups and most of those names usually translate to mean "The People", "The Real People" or "The Real Men." None actually implying race, but all conveying the worldview of the people defined, asserting the humanness quality or the human ideal, each perceive themselves to be or represent. Even when we look at the term, First Nations, this was term created by the various native groups to classify themselves in this hodge-podge of identities call America. It has been used to qualify them to speak from a greater position of strength and recognized sovereignty, as well as, a united collective promoting a vision of respect, bargaining chips and strategic placement. No longer disempowered as "indians" or "red men", those conquered noble savages that inhabited the virgin land, the frontier, pays de haut, and the wilderness, they are now recognized on a global front, negotiating deals in the telecom, energy, gaming, and manufacturing industries with various countries such as China and Japan. First Nation people with a seat at the United Nations as sovereign indigenous nations of the world and voice that is becoming ever more clear in the 21st century. Will we be last to cross over that divide separating old age thinking from that of a new dawn?

In the spirit of prosperity, I advocate a position of strength for our people - one that can communicate our past effectively andwith clarity and can also inspire our future endeavors. Your name is your mission statement; it charges potential to action in efforts to fulfill an intended purpose. It is, of course, your definition, your description. It is not something that is arrive at arbitrarily; it must be a conscious effort. We must make every attempt to daily, as is possible, to embody the spirit of growth and development for our people, using what ever resources are at our disposal to uplift our beauty and eschew every vestige of our Negro-ness and servitude. My grandmother once told me white people hate us so much because we are a beautiful people. I encourage everyone at Destee to stop viewing ourselves as Negroes, Coloreds, Black folks and what have you. We are beautiful people and from now on, my people shall be called, at least to me, “The Beautiful People!” I will commit to help make us even more beautiful, what say you?

Blackbird (blacker and bolder than ever)

i do. i missed the memo that negro was a put down.


As you know this is an old thread where others have expressed the viewpoint that the terms Negro and/or Negress are "put downs".

Perhaps what you missed was not a memo but reading those early posts.

Perhaps what you missed was not a memo but reading those early posts.
yeah, that too.

"Self-Power is the ability to define reality for yourself and then create a reality and world based on that definition."
what is the difference between that and schizophrenia?

"Self-Power is the ability to define reality for yourself and then create a reality and world based on that definition."what is the difference between that and schizophrenia?Schizophrenia is involuntary; Self Determination is an intentional act of defining One's Self based on one's OwnSelf Knowledge.

"Self-Power is the ability to define reality for yourself and then create a reality and world based on that definition."
what is the difference between that and schizophrenia?
Schizophrenia is involuntary; Self Determination is an intentional act of defining One's Self based on one's OwnSelf Knowledge.
how does the outside observer know that it is voluntary or not?

how does the outside observer know that it is voluntary or not?Observation of the individual, awareness of the differences between "mentally healthy" and "mentally ill" and understanding of schizophrenia. Then, too, the observer, through being, supposedly, "mentally healthy", should have sufficient SelfKnowledge to be able to determine that the observered is responding/reacting outside of "normal" human parameters.

THANK YOU!! Your "rant" comes out much more coherent, and on point, than mine would!! And, if you don't mind, I'll just borrow your disclaimer as well! :lol:

Disclaimer: This was initially a reply to the thread, but during the course of typing it became a rant. There were a few things I wanted to get off my chest, especially after yesterday’s conversation with some co-workers. I understand my view very well may be in the minority and quite unpopular; I accept that and respect anyone’s right to disagree. I just wanted to be heard out and do not intend to offend anyone, although I wish to spark discussion and reflection.


Greetings all,

Negro, in my opinion, is the ultimate slur word to call a person of African descent. I'll tell you why I think so. Where is Negroland? Negro comes from the spanish word meaning "black". True, indeed, slavery helped to erase the various ethnic identities of our ancestors, but at some point in time, we were Igbo, Yoruba, Bambara, Dagomba, Bakongo, etc., before we were Negro. Negro implies to me something American created and American breed, with no past and possibly no future. Negro has no sense of his/her past and therefore no sense of his/her future. Negro's ethnicity is American, thus American Negro - a phenomena or people that only exist in America. So from my reasoning, a Negro's ancestral history begins no further than slavery in America and his legacy is his struggle in America to prove he is equal and should be seen as a natural citizen. The Negro’s only aspirations are to reach to the higher echelons of American society. Negro history is a bragging about being the first Black man or woman to be “such and such” or “so and so”. It becomes a sense of pride for Negroes; a badge to flash around to speak to the testament of their strength, but still they are slaves. It's a disempowering position, consisting of trying to be a measure against someone else’s standards and mores. Understand a people born as slaves to other people can never be equals to their masters, only subservient.

Secondly, a Negro does things with no knowledge of why he does it. A Negro also believes in things without truly understanding why she believes in them. A Negro consumes, but produces nothing to sustain him or herself for the benefit of the Negro. Negroes believes it okay to speak negatively of or commit destructive acts against other Negroes while all the time questioning what’s wrong with Negroes. A solution is rarely uttered from the mouth of a Negro because when they speak about the problems of Negroes, they are never really serious about it and could actually care less about other Negroes as long as they got their nice house, flashy clothes, good music, fly car and other trinkets to gloat at. It’s like the calico blankets Masa used to buy for his breeder negress for each child she provides him with. Negroes make me sick. I dislike Negroes.

One elder, Wade Nobles, once was heard saying, "Power is the ability to define reality and have others respond to your definition as if it were their own."

To accept the Europeans' description of us is to succumb perennially to their power. The yoke is never removed, only enhanced by the servant peoples’ own doing. The independence to make your own perceived decisions, although it was initially influenced by others, feels like freedom for people who were enslaved or who have slave minds. A Negro indiscriminately embraces the reality give him or her, no matter how destructive it is, and assimilates it into part of the experience of Black in America and as a gauge of Blackness. Others create stereotypes or images for the Negro and with lack of his past, the Negro incorporates those types into the Negro self-image and becomes the living caricature of the white supremacist's imagination.

I have inverted Dr. Nobles definition of power to, "Self-Power is the ability to define reality for yourself and then create a reality and world based on that definition."

If I recall correctly I believe I told the story of my grandmother here on Destee about us being "beautiful people". Being that my paternal grandfather was Comanche (Numu), I am fascinated by First Nation cultures and have studied them as I have African ones. All First Nation people have native names for their respective groups and most of those names usually translate to mean "The People", "The Real People" or "The Real Men." None actually implying race, but all conveying the worldview of the people defined, asserting the humanness quality or the human ideal, each perceive themselves to be or represent. Even when we look at the term, First Nations, this was term created by the various native groups to classify themselves in this hodge-podge of identities call America. It has been used to qualify them to speak from a greater position of strength and recognized sovereignty, as well as, a united collective promoting a vision of respect, bargaining chips and strategic placement. No longer disempowered as "indians" or "red men", those conquered noble savages that inhabited the virgin land, the frontier, pays de haut, and the wilderness, they are now recognized on a global front, negotiating deals in the telecom, energy, gaming, and manufacturing industries with various countries such as China and Japan. First Nation people with a seat at the United Nations as sovereign indigenous nations of the world and voice that is becoming ever more clear in the 21st century. Will we be last to cross over that divide separating old age thinking from that of a new dawn?

In the spirit of prosperity, I advocate a position of strength for our people - one that can communicate our past effectively andwith clarity and can also inspire our future endeavors. Your name is your mission statement; it charges potential to action in efforts to fulfill an intended purpose. It is, of course, your definition, your description. It is not something that is arrive at arbitrarily; it must be a conscious effort. We must make every attempt to daily, as is possible, to embody the spirit of growth and development for our people, using what ever resources are at our disposal to uplift our beauty and eschew every vestige of our Negro-ness and servitude. My grandmother once told me white people hate us so much because we are a beautiful people. I encourage everyone at Destee to stop viewing ourselves as Negroes, Coloreds, Black folks and what have you. We are beautiful people and from now on, my people shall be called, at least to me, “The Beautiful People!” I will commit to help make us even more beautiful, what say you?

Blackbird (blacker and bolder than ever)

Personally, I much prefer African. Although I also, obviously, like "AfRaKan".

(And before any come with that "Have you ever been to Africa? Do you speak any African languages?" silliness, I'll most carefully refrain from saying anything derogatory. As I pointed out to Music Producer, when he offered up "Do you live in Africa" as a "Hello" in chat the other day (??what is my "Location"? which part of the "Pacific" is near Africa? smh): ALL DESCENDANTS OF ENSLAVED AFRICANS ARE AFRICANS!!)

(To me, "african american", (and all "[ethnic]-american" labels), is aiding and abetting the "divide and conquer" treason against the "melting pot" spirit of America. (How did all the "ethnic groups" of the world all decide to use that "[ethnic]-american" label all at the same time? Or was that yet another "suggestion" from the sub-evolved"? ... A(nother) "war crime" against this biosphere? ...)

Given that "America" is actually the entirety of North, Central and South America; and "North America" consists of the USA and Canada; I'd think that "USAmerican African" would be "better", (BUT ONLY INSOFAR AS THIS TREASON IS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TO FESTER), for those Africans born, raised and working/learning/educating/supporting(by working/spending/voting) for/in/by the USA.

Although, actually, the only two terms that would be appropriate would be "American", as the "political/national" label, and "African", as the "ethnic" label.)

So, I reckon y'all can take this as a "no" vote on the terms "negro/negress", eh. <grin>

The Book of Negroes (1783) (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2h58.html)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2h58.html
This book is a hand-written list of Black passengers leaving New York on British ships in 1783.
It gives a name, age, physical description, and status (slave or free) for each passenger, and often an owner's name and place of residence.
Three copies of the Book of Negroes exist: one in England, at the Public Records Office, Kew; one in the United States, at the National Archives, Washington; and one in Canada, at the Nova Scotia Archives, Halifax. Knowledge of the Black Loyalists begins with this list, made by British and American inspectors.

Choose a letter to see the Black Loyalist surnames recovered during the 1998-'99 research project. They are all the surnames recorded in the Book of Negroes in 1783, with some additions from the 1784 Nova Scotian muster rolls.
Click here: blackloyalists surnames (http://museum.gov.ns.ca/blackloyalists/names/default.htm)

http://www.thebukowskiagency.com/BookOfNegroes.jpg
THE BOOK OF NEGROES a novel by Lawrence Hill

BASED ON THE LITTLE-KNOWN EPIC STORY OF FORMER SLAVES RETURNING TO AFRICA,THE ACCLAIMED AUTHOR OF ANY KNOWN BLOOD OFFERS A POWERFUL SAGA WITH AN INDOMITABLE WOMAN AT ITS HEART

Lawrence Hill is a master at transforming neglected corners of history into brilliant imaginings, as engaging and revealing as only the best fiction can be. In a sweeping story that transports the reader from a tribal African village to a plantation in the southern United States, from a teeming Halifax dock to the stately houses of London, The Book of Negroes introduces one of the strongest female characters in recent fiction.

Abducted as an eleven-year-old child from her village in West Africa and forced to walk in a coffle—a string of slaves—for months to the sea, Aminata Diallo is sent to live as a slave in South Carolina. Years later she forges her way to freedom, serving the British in the Revolutionary War and registering her name in the historic “Book of Negroes,” a real British military ledger that provides a revealing record of Black Loyalists who fled slavery and were desperate to escape the United States for resettlement in Nova Scotia—only to find their new Promised Land filled with an oppression all its own. Aminata’s eventual return to Sierra Leone—on a journey that passed ships carrying thousands of slaves bound for America—is an engrossing account of an all-but-forgotten chapter in history that saw 1,200 former slaves embark on a harrowing back-to-Africa odyssey.
AN EXCERPT FROM THE BOOK OF NEGROES
"I SEEM TO HAVE trouble dying. By all rights, I should not have lived this long. But I still can smell trouble riding on any wind, just as surely as I could tell you whether it is a stew of chicken necks or pig's feet bubbling in the iron pot on the fire. And my ears still work just as good as a hound dog. People assume that just because you don't stand as straight as a sapling, you're deaf. Or that your mind is like pumpkin mush. The other day, when I was being led into a meeting with a Bishop, one of the society ladies told another, "We must get this woman into Parliament soon. Who knows how much longer she'll be with us?" Half bent though I was, I dug my fingers into her ribs. She let out a shriek and spun around to face me. "Careful," I told her, "I may outlast you!"
There must be a reason why I have lived in all these lands, survived all those water crossings, while others fell from bullets or shut their eyes and simply willed their lives to end. In the earliest days, when I was free and knew nothing other, I used to climb on top of our home, lie perfectly flat so as not to poke a hole in the roof, and look out at all the patchwork of mud walls and thatched coverings. People were always on the move. Women carrying water from the river, men working iron in the fires, boys returning triumphant from the forest with snared porcupines. It's a lot of work, extracting meat from a porcupine, but if they had no other pressing chores, they would do it anyway, removing the quills, skinning the animal, slicing out the innards, practising with their sharp knives on the pathetic little carcass. In those days, I felt free and happy, and the very idea of safety never intruded on my thoughts.
I have escaped violent endings even as they have surrounded me. But I never had the privilege of holding onto my children, living with them, raising them the way my own parents raised me for ten or eleven years until all of our lives were torn asunder. I never managed to keep my own children long, which explains why they are not here with me now, making my meals, adding straw to my bedding, bringing me a cape to hold off the cold, sitting with me by the fire with the knowledge that they had emerged from my own loins and that our shared moments had grown like corn stalks in damp soil. Others take care of me now. And that's a fine thing. But it's not the same as having one's own flesh and blood to cradle one toward the grave. I long to hold my own children, and their children if they exist, and I miss them the way I'd miss limbs from my own body.
They have me exceedingly busy here in London. They say I am to meet King George. Or his people, if he will not see me. About me, I have a clutch of abolitionists - big-whiskered, wide-bellied, bald-headed men boycotting sugar but smelling of tobacco and burning candle after candle as they plot deep into the night.
The abolitionists say they have brought me to England to help them change the course of history. Well. We shall see about that. But if I have lived this long, it must be for a reason."
More here: http://www.thebukowskiagency.com/BookOfNegroes%20PV.htm

Disclaimer: This was initially a reply to the thread, but during the course of typing it became a rant. There were a few things I wanted to get off my chest, especially after yesterday’s conversation with some co-workers. I understand my view very well may be in the minority and quite unpopular; I accept that and respect anyone’s right to disagree. I just wanted to be heard out and do not intend to offend anyone, although I wish to spark discussion and reflection.


Greetings all,

Negro, in my opinion, is the ultimate slur word to call a person of African descent. I'll tell you why I think so. Where is Negroland? Negro comes from the spanish word meaning "black". True, indeed, slavery helped to erase the various ethnic identities of our ancestors, but at some point in time, we were Igbo, Yoruba, Bambara, Dagomba, Bakongo, etc., before we were Negro. Negro implies to me something American created and American breed, with no past and possibly no future. Negro has no sense of his/her past and therefore no sense of his/her future. Negro's ethnicity is American, thus American Negro - a phenomena or people that only exist in America. So from my reasoning, a Negro's ancestral history begins no further than slavery in America and his legacy is his struggle in America to prove he is equal and should be seen as a natural citizen. The Negro’s only aspirations are to reach to the higher echelons of American society. Negro history is a bragging about being the first Black man or woman to be “such and such” or “so and so”. It becomes a sense of pride for Negroes; a badge to flash around to speak to the testament of their strength, but still they are slaves. It's a disempowering position, consisting of trying to be a measure against someone else’s standards and mores. Understand a people born as slaves to other people can never be equals to their masters, only subservient.

Secondly, a Negro does things with no knowledge of why he does it. A Negro also believes in things without truly understanding why she believes in them. A Negro consumes, but produces nothing to sustain him or herself for the benefit of the Negro. Negroes believes it okay to speak negatively of or commit destructive acts against other Negroes while all the time questioning what’s wrong with Negroes. A solution is rarely uttered from the mouth of a Negro because when they speak about the problems of Negroes, they are never really serious about it and could actually care less about other Negroes as long as they got their nice house, flashy clothes, good music, fly car and other trinkets to gloat at. It’s like the calico blankets Masa used to buy for his breeder negress for each child she provides him with. Negroes make me sick. I dislike Negroes.

One elder, Wade Nobles, once was heard saying, "Power is the ability to define reality and have others respond to your definition as if it were their own."

To accept the Europeans' description of us is to succumb perennially to their power. The yoke is never removed, only enhanced by the servant peoples’ own doing. The independence to make your own perceived decisions, although it was initially influenced by others, feels like freedom for people who were enslaved or who have slave minds. A Negro indiscriminately embraces the reality give him or her, no matter how destructive it is, and assimilates it into part of the experience of Black in America and as a gauge of Blackness. Others create stereotypes or images for the Negro and with lack of his past, the Negro incorporates those types into the Negro self-image and becomes the living caricature of the white supremacist's imagination.

I have inverted Dr. Nobles definition of power to, "Self-Power is the ability to define reality for yourself and then create a reality and world based on that definition."

If I recall correctly I believe I told the story of my grandmother here on Destee about us being "beautiful people". Being that my paternal grandfather was Comanche (Numu), I am fascinated by First Nation cultures and have studied them as I have African ones. All First Nation people have native names for their respective groups and most of those names usually translate to mean "The People", "The Real People" or "The Real Men." None actually implying race, but all conveying the worldview of the people defined, asserting the humanness quality or the human ideal, each perceive themselves to be or represent. Even when we look at the term, First Nations, this was term created by the various native groups to classify themselves in this hodge-podge of identities call America. It has been used to qualify them to speak from a greater position of strength and recognized sovereignty, as well as, a united collective promoting a vision of respect, bargaining chips and strategic placement. No longer disempowered as "indians" or "red men", those conquered noble savages that inhabited the virgin land, the frontier, pays de haut, and the wilderness, they are now recognized on a global front, negotiating deals in the telecom, energy, gaming, and manufacturing industries with various countries such as China and Japan. First Nation people with a seat at the United Nations as sovereign indigenous nations of the world and voice that is becoming ever more clear in the 21st century. Will we be last to cross over that divide separating old age thinking from that of a new dawn?

In the spirit of prosperity, I advocate a position of strength for our people - one that can communicate our past effectively andwith clarity and can also inspire our future endeavors. Your name is your mission statement; it charges potential to action in efforts to fulfill an intended purpose. It is, of course, your definition, your description. It is not something that is arrive at arbitrarily; it must be a conscious effort. We must make every attempt to daily, as is possible, to embody the spirit of growth and development for our people, using what ever resources are at our disposal to uplift our beauty and eschew every vestige of our Negro-ness and servitude. My grandmother once told me white people hate us so much because we are a beautiful people. I encourage everyone at Destee to stop viewing ourselves as Negroes, Coloreds, Black folks and what have you. We are beautiful people and from now on, my people shall be called, at least to me, “The Beautiful People!” I will commit to help make us even more beautiful, what say you?

Blackbird (blacker and bolder than ever)
i have been a negro for some time. longer than some of you have been on the planet.
now some one comes along and calls me a bunch of names.
talks about me like a dog. that does not sit well with me.
if this person is so brilliant how come he divides rather than unifies?
i don't know you blackbird but i do know that you have insulted me for no good reason and i do not think that is useful.

i have been a negro for some time. longer than some of you have been on the planet.
now some one comes along and calls me a bunch of names.
talks about me like a dog. that does not sit well with me.
if this person is so brilliant how come he divides rather than unifies?
i don't know you blackbird but i do know that you have insulted me for no good reason and i do not think that is useful.

Brother James,

At the beginning of my post, I said:

"Disclaimer: This was initially a reply to the thread, but during the course of typing it became a rant. There were a few things I wanted to get off my chest, especially after yesterday’s conversation with some co-workers. I understand my view very well may be in the minority and quite unpopular; I accept that and respect anyone’s right to disagree. I just wanted to be heard out and do not intend to offend anyone, although I wish to spark discussion and reflection."

I was contemplating on responding because I do not wish to become embroiled in some heated affair. That is not my style and when I wrote what I wrote I was not attempting to be mean-spirited to invoke such an event. I was providing why "Negro" for me is the ultimate insult to any person of African descent. Why must we accept terminology imposed on us to define us when in the context of empowerment it does little to benefit us? Do we not have a right to define ourselves and not accept something given us and then assimilated by us as something appropriate? I understand you are my elder and perhaps at the time you were coming of age, negro was in vogue as a label for people of African descent in America and by default was accepted. I understand that. I accept that. But as one esteemed elder once said, "Where is Negro-land?" Negro as an operative term provides no power, but it does essentially disconnect us for sources other ethnic groups us for their upliftment. Negro was originally a slur given by good ole' white folks to dehumanize us, perpetually into a color, devoid of national, cultural and historical affiliation. I speak from a position of what can be empowering for us based on a historical, cultural and original context.

However, Brother, I will say this. If you personalize what I said, in a generalized context, perhaps you have some issues you may need resolving. I'm not here to be disagreeable or disruptive. Life is too short. I'm here to share with my people what is on my mind, in an unadulterated but tolerant manner.

Thank you,

Blackbird (Blacker and Bolder than ever)

i have been a negro for some time. longer than some of you have been on the planet.
now some one comes along and calls me a bunch of names.
talks about me like a dog. that does not sit well with me.
if this person is so brilliant how come he divides rather than unifies?
i don't know you blackbird but i do know that you have insulted me for no good reason and i do not think that is useful.Now, I've "only" got a half-century on this planet, so I will be the first to acknowledge that I don't know everything. But I do know that I, personally, have not "been a negro for some time. longer than some of you have been on the planet." Additionally, this was presented as an opinion: the "fight for freedom(s)" that some of us have refused to "retire from" has included the right to hold, and express, one's own opinion, without the seeming "attack" of having one's "brilliance" called into question.

Given: I understand my view very well may be in the minority and quite unpopular; I accept that and respect anyone’s right to disagree. I just wanted to be heard out and do not intend to offend anyone, although I wish to spark discussion and reflection., is it really "fair" to take this opinion as personally as you have? Nobody has called jamesfrmphilly any names; noone has spoken of jamesfrmphilly "like a dog"; noone has directly insulted jamefrmphilly. (Well, "perhaps you have some issues you may need resolving", in my opinion, does begin to come too close. Particularly directed at one that has shared, with the family, the struggles that one has faced in overcoming quite a few "issues".)

If you personalize what I said, in a generalized context, perhaps you have some issues you may need resolving.
i am a negro. you said a bunch of bad stuff about negroes.
i object to the name calling. you tell me that i have issues.
i say that you should take some responsibility for what you do.

is it really "fair" to take this opinion as personally as you have? Nobody has called jamesfrmphilly any names; noone has spoken of jamesfrmphilly "like a dog"; noone has directly insulted jamefrmphilly. (Well, "perhaps you have some issues you may need resolving", in my opinion, does begin to come too close.
i am a negro. a bunch of bad things was said about negroes. i object. now i have issues?
i am the only one here with issues? it's all on me? ok, if that floats your boat.

is it really "fair" to take this opinion as personally as you have? Nobody has called jamesfrmphilly any names; noone has spoken of jamesfrmphilly "like a dog"; noone has directly insulted jamefrmphilly. (Well, "perhaps you have some issues you may need resolving", in my opinion, does begin to come too close."i am a negro. a bunch of bad things was said about negroes. i object. now i have issues?
i am the only one here with issues? it's all on me? ok, if that floats your boat.no, james; you are not the only one in here with "issues": I have issues with the term "negro", but if you wish to define yourself as such, that is your perogative. you can be a "negro" if you want to be, james. however, it is not a term that i, personally, appreciate being directed at any African, anywhere, ever! but to each their own, eh? i hope that you are enjoying your "retirement" from the fight for our liberation/empowerment.

and, do, please, note that i quoted that bit about "having issues", not to reinforce it, but to suggest that it was a statement that comes too close to "name calling" and/or "a direct insult".

and if you are going to quote me, don't take my words out of context!! the bit that you conveniently left out: is it really "fair" to take this opinion as personally as you have? Nobody has called jamesfrmphilly any names; noone has spoken of jamesfrmphilly "like a dog"; noone has directly insulted jamefrmphilly. (Well, "perhaps you have some issues you may need resolving", in my opinion, does begin to come too close. Particularly directed at one that has shared, with the family, the struggles that one has faced in overcoming quite a few "issues".) is an attempt, on my part, to show support! I truly don't appreciate the implication that I am, somehow, a party to "maligning" you!

that was truly wrong, james!!
i toss up something that is supportive of you and you misuse it to further your complaint!
That was WRONG!
Thanks a lot.
NOT!

that was truly wrong, james!!
i toss up something that is supportive of you and you misuse it to further your complaint!
That was WRONG!
Thanks a lot.
NOT!
my apologies. i didn't get it. i thought you were on his side.
i'll take all the support i can get. mea culpa.

my apologies. i didn't get it. i thought you were on his side.
i'll take all the support i can get. mea culpa.accepted. thanks.

my apologies. i didn't get it. i thought you were on his side.
i'll take all the support i can get. mea culpa.

Brother James,

Sides? So we take sides now? Are we opponents?

Why do you take issue with me so vehemently? You approached me as your enemy when I was only stating my opinion of the matter of Negroes. I never personally attacked you for you to have a disagreeable oopinion about me. I stated you have issues because for me to be speaking general and you to personalize it indicates something deeper at play. Personally, I have no squabble with you even if you choose to have one with me. I am a man and take full responsibility for my words and actions. Likewise, I can back up everything I say logically and rationally without getting emotional. Since you are so proud of being a Negro, which as Brother An African said is your perogative, I wonder if you can provide for me what it means to be a Negro? (No pun intended) I want to understand your view since you are so passionate about it. We should be able to discuss this and defend our points without disintegrating to nonsense and accusations. Perhaps we may have something we both can learn from.

Accept this as my attempt to offer an olive branch to you.... I personally apologize for insult you may have felt from my words, because regardless of the frustration I wrote my initial post with, I speak with no malice and only love. However, just as passionately as you feel about your position, so do I and do not take back the basic content of what I wrote. I stand by it.

Blackbird (ever changing, ever evolving... still blacker and bolder than ever)

Food for thought

In social work, there is a perspective known as the empowerment perspective which states "individuals, groups, organizations and communities are capable of gaining control over what they are doing by recognizing how social structures repress and influence everything they do." Solomon, B. (1976). Black empowerment. New York: Columbia University; Solomon, B. (1987). Empowerment: Social work in oppressed communities. Journal of Social Work Practice, 2(4): 79-91.

Language is a system of communication, in symbols, of any kind of information. Symbols are sounds or gestures that stand for meanings among a group of people. An early hypothesis, in linguistics, known as Sapir-Whorf hypothesis suggests that language is a shaping force, establishing habitual grooves of communication that predisposes people to see the world in a certain way and thus guides their thinking and behavior. Language has since been proven to not be so rigid, but linguists have found that once a terminology is established, it tends to perpetuate itself and reflect and reveal the social structure and a group's common perceptions and concerns.

Enculturation is the process by which culture is passed from one generation to the next. An individual learns about a world of objects other than the self; this environment is perceived in terms compatible with the values of the culture of the individual is born into. Finally, an individual gains an understanding of the values, ideals and standards that constitutes the behavioral environment. Personality is a product of enculturation and refers to the distinctive ways a person thinks, feels and behaves.

Peace and Blessings Family,

It seems to me that the acceptance or rejection of some words, is generational.

Depending on what time you grew up in, this will vary.

It's as though, the younger generation, has come into a different knowledge, and are able to look upon those before them, that in fact embraced these words ... as foolish or misguided.

Of course there could be some truth to this, as we are now experiencing what could be considered "information overload" compared to the information those before us had access to.

I'm personally reluctant to take any "new information" and use it to determine that those before me were ignorant, dumb, etc., as they are my Ancestors, or Elders at least ... and grew up in a time where all of this was the norm.

I also am very slow to change my thinking, just because some "new information" presents itself, when all information we have access to, comes from them ... white folk ... for the most part.

I think they give us what they want us to have, and we run with it, even to the point of disrespecting those before us.

Just for the simple fact that those before me embraced these words, i will honor them, for their sake. They most often died believing they were Negros or what have you, and that is good enough for me. Their belief in these words, did not keep us from coming together today, to discuss the terms. In fact, we are here because of them, so i can't find a whole lot of fault in what they did or did not do.

That's just my opinion yall.

Love You!

:heart:

Destee

Peace and Blessings Family,

It seems to me that the acceptance or rejection of some words, is generational.

Depending on what time you grew up in, this will vary.

It's as though, the younger generation, has come into a different knowledge, and are able to look upon those before them, that in fact embraced these words ... as foolish or misguided.

Of course there could be some truth to this, as we are now experiencing what could be considered "information overload" compared to the information those before us had access to.

I'm personally reluctant to take any "new information" and use it to determine that those before me were ignorant, dumb, etc., as they are my Ancestors, or Elders at least ... and grew up in a time where all of this was the norm.

I also am very slow to change my thinking, just because some "new information" presents itself, when all information we have access to, comes from them ... white folk ... for the most part.

I think they give us what they want us to have, and we run with it, even to the point of disrespecting those before us.

Just for the simple fact that those before me embraced these words, i will honor them, for their sake. They most often died believing they were Negros or what have you, and that is good enough for me. Their belief in these words, did not keep us from coming together today, to discuss the terms. In fact, we are here because of them, so i can't find a whole lot of fault in what they did or did not do.

That's just my opinion yall.

Love You!

:heart:

Destee

Hello sister Destee,

It is my belief that people simply are not ready for "all of the truth" at once. There was a time when Marcus Garvey tried to teach the origin of the word "Negro" and deter Black folks from using it, but people weren't ready for that amount of truth quite yet. Eventually we were, and for the most part (except in the traditional sense), we have expunged this word from our vocabulary when describing African people. I don't see it as taking shots at our ancestors at all. It is just that as time goes on, the less ignorant we become. It doesn't mean we know everything yet, but it is progress in the unremitting process of knowing thyself. I think it is fundamentally impossible for any African person to truly know himself by referring to his people as "Negros".

Hello sister Destee,

It is my belief that people simply are not ready for "all of the truth" at once. There was a time when Marcus Garvey tried to teach the origin of the word "Negro" and deter Black folks from using it, but people weren't ready for that amount of truth quite yet. Eventually we were, and for the most part (except in the traditional sense), we have expunged this word from our vocabulary when describing African people. I don't see it as taking shots at our ancestors at all. It is just that as time goes on, the less ignorant we become. It doesn't mean we know everything yet, but it is progress in the unremitting process of knowing thyself. I think it is fundamentally impossible for any African person to truly know himself by referring to his people as "Negros".

Brother ShemsiEnTehuti ... peace and blessings ... :love:

I think it's a very delicate balance, taking the new information, being less ignorant, than those before us. Given the low-down treachery of our oppressors, i'm suspect of all information they allow us access to. You do realize, whatever access we have, they've allowed it, right? If we then, take that information, and determine that those before us were "more ignorant" than we are ... that's a bad sign in my opinion. If anything, we should be able to detemine how much greater they were, given their lack of information, to do all that they did to insure a future for us. We should wonder, given the current state of our people world-wide, what has this new knowledge brought to those of us who have access to it. What value does it have, if our people are collectively oppressed around the world, starving and dying daily. The new knowledge should make us more aware of the low-down and dirty acts of our oppressors, but instead, it appears we've been homogenized to the degree that far too many of us see no (current) fault in them. No matter what comes out of the new knowledge, never should it be anything that disparages, maligns, or reduces our Ancestors in any way, shape, form, or fashion. If it does, i'm suspect of it.

You say our Beloved Ancestor, Marcus Garvey, tried to deter the use of the word Negro, yet his organization ... Universal Negro Improvement Association ... used the word. Can you share some information that supports what you're saying? It seems contradictory, for him to try to encourage us not to use the word, and then he puts it in the title of his life's work.

:heart:

Destee

a Negro does things with no knowledge of why he does it. A Negro also believes in things without truly understanding why she believes in them. A Negro consumes, but produces nothing to sustain him or herself for the benefit of the Negro. Negroes believes it okay to speak negatively of or commit destructive acts against other Negroes while all the time questioning what’s wrong with Negroes. A solution is rarely uttered from the mouth of a Negro because when they speak about the problems of Negroes, they are never really serious about it and could actually care less about other Negroes as long as they got their nice house, flashy clothes, good music, fly car and other trinkets to gloat at. It’s like the calico blankets Masa used to buy for his breeder negress for each child she provides him with. Negroes make me sick. I dislike Negroes.




Accept this as my attempt to offer an olive branch to you.... I personally apologize for insult you may have felt from my words, because regardless of the frustration I wrote my initial post with, I speak with no malice and only love. However, just as passionately as you feel about your position, so do I and do not take back the basic content of what I wrote. I stand by it.
how can you write such hurtful words about other black people and not expect anyone to object?
my grandmother was a negro. i was a negro. how can you say such things?
did you have a mother, a grandmother, a great grandmother? they were negroes. do you think of them in this way?
i am a negro and proud to be so. i stand with my grand mom. i will never leave her.

yes, i do have issues. am i the only one here with issues?

what good does it do us to put each other down?

Brother James ... Brother BlackBird never made his comments personal, toward you. He was speaking in as general terms as possible. For you to take them personal, is a choice you've made. You're certainly entitled to do that, but after doing so, you can't really blame it on him, that you chose to do that.

We've seen this many times in the community, where someone says something in general, and folk take it personal. I've even done it myself, as there are many topics close to my heart, and move me emotionally. One of them is the "Single Mother" discussions ... whew ... i've really had to learn that all comments aren't directed personally at me. I've had to deactivate those buttons, and encourage other Single Mothers here, to do the same ... as everyone is entitled to their opinion ... and all of those opinions won't be what we want to hear.

We can't react emotionally to every person's comments about a topic we're close to, as it does us more harm than good. I know it's difficult not to do sometimes, but we'd never be able to have any in-depth, progressive discussion, if we all took everything personal.

:heart:

Destee

Okay, now this is where I may take some more heat.

"Negro"....that is a term which specifically has been used to denote a specific race or color.

"Negus" or "N-g-r" denote class....defined as "King" and "God", according to AFRICAN languages.

These terms are quite different and I admit to sometimes use the word "Negro" as a put down. I doubt if any thinking Black conscious person today will identify with being called a "Negro".


Okay...I do not intend to offend anyone who identifies with either of these terms...we have much more to gain in Unity than to continually divide ourselves over terminology.

With that said, let me share another perspective related to the origin of the word from an interesting source.

Quote:

"So significant was the source of Greek knowledge and culture, that the earliest inhabitants of the land derived their very name Greece from an ancient name for Africa, "Nigrecia"!

NIGRECIA.....I have read reference to this word in another context as well.

In a post having to do with "Ankhland".

...we have much more to gain in Unity than to continually divide ourselves over terminology..
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Brother James ... Brother BlackBird never made his comments personal, toward you. He was speaking in as general terms as possible. For you to take them personal, is a choice you've made. You're certainly entitled to do that, but after doing so, you can't really blame it on him, that you chose to do that.
he was speaking about negroes. i am a negro. i come from a line of negroes.
he said things about negroes and i objected to what he said. do i not have that right?
he expressed his opinion. i expressed my opinion.
how is it that my expression is deemed wrong?
what did i say that was hurtful to anyone?

he was speaking about negroes. i am a negro. i come from a line of negroes.
he said things about negroes and i objected to what he said. do i not have that right?
he expressed his opinion. i expressed my opinion.
how is it that my expression is deemed wrong?
what did i say that was hurtful to anyone?

You did more than object. You accused him of violating you. You said the following:


i have been a negro for some time. longer than some of you have been on the planet.
now some one comes along and calls me a bunch of names.
talks about me like a dog. that does not sit well with me.
if this person is so brilliant how come he divides rather than unifies?
i don't know you blackbird but i do know that you have insulted me for no good reason and i do not think that is useful.

He never called you any name, let alone a bunch of them. He never called your name. He never talked about you like a dog. If he had done those things, he'd be in violation of our rules, and Brother BlackBird has never been in violation of our rules. This time or any time. For you to say these things so adamantly, as though they are true, well ... that's wrong ... especially coming from a Moderator as your word could be considered law.

Your expression was wrong because it was not true. He did not do those things.

I don't know that you said anything hurtful to anyone, as i've not read anyone say that.

We must encourage the Family not to take things personal, instead of actually being the one(s) that take it personal.

:heart:

Destee

Your expression was wrong because it was not true. He did not do those things.
i am am a negro. he said things about negroes. how was he NOT talking about me.

if you are a mother and someone says all mothers are bad how does that not include you?

please explain your logic.

I share in CHUCKY's sentiments....

The term "NEGRESS" was used by the slave master, for the purpose of designating the "prettier" slave girls/women from the less desirable ones.

Negress is no more a compliment than Negro is. People (and I don't mean just one particular person in this threadm but all of us) are smart enough to know that if a white man walked up, calling us (especially the sisters) "Negro and Negress", then we'd be offended.

There is a reason why you never hear any other group of people calling themselves derrogatory names........You never hear the Asians calling themselves "Chink".......You never hear the Latinos calling themselves "Wet Back".......You never hear the Jews calling themselves "Hymies or Kikes"........You never hear white people calling themselves "Honkeys".

We ae the only ones who strive to make a compliment out of an insult.

We are also the only ones who make excuses for calling the White man what he is........whether it's "Devil", or "Cracka @$$ Cracka".

Calling him what he is, does not give him more power, because it shows that we have taken the "Cracking" whip from him :whip:

I think that historically, one of our biggest shortcomings has been the allowance of our inherent compassion to override our strength of reckoning, which is equally inherent.

Just like there is no human alive save my father that will call me "boy or son", there is no human alive that I will allow to say "Negro, Negress, *******, etc" in my presence.

These names have forever tarnished our reputations.....We've gone from one opposite to the other; we were once the "Gods" of this planet, and now we call ourselves "DOGS" (D-A-W-G).....And there's no irony to be found in the fact that that's precisely how we are treated.


PEACE

Just a reminder of the source of this "argument".

For the sake of peace, can this finally be laid to rest?

PEACE

I hope and don't want to offend,but we have to let this go. Personally, I am a Black man,when i was younger i was a black boy. Some folks called me,that negrowa with that nasty southern growl that white folks could use in the Strom Thurman south at the time.

I smiled,because i knew and still new,that i am,will be and will die Black!


Some words, things hurt more than others,but we have been called negroes and the rest,but in the end we are just human beings that happen to be Black.

If we are in the habit of identifying ourselves by physical appearance(being a black person), then why is it such a big discussion on whether or not we should use a word such as black over negro? Why would I argue with someone who chooses to describe me as being "above average height" because I would prefer to be called "tall?" I've been told often about the times when our people were called these terms by my father and my father's father and I just don't understand. Would it make any difference if a dude from France called a woman on this site a b-word in his native language than a guy from America who says it in English? Different words but same meaning, maybe we as a people choose one over the other because one may not be as poetic?

If we are in the habit of identifying ourselves by physical appearance(being a black person), then why is it such a big discussion on whether or not we should use a word such as black over negro? Why would I argue with someone who chooses to describe me as being "above average height" because I would prefer to be called "tall?" I've been told often about the times when our people were called these terms by my father and my father's father and I just don't understand. Would it make any difference if a dude from France called a woman on this site a b-word in his native language than a guy from America who says it in English? Different words but same meaning, maybe we as a people choose one over the other because one may not be as poetic?

Personally, I choose not to argue with anyone over physical appearance. I was suggesting something I see can be radical and possibly something most can't fathom what I was speaking to. I hate the fact most people couldn't grasp what I was getting at. Perhaps, my thinking was truly flawed. I will go back to the drawing board and reformulate with hopes my people can understand me next time.


Blackbird

Greetings all,

Now that the burning embers of what could have escalated into a heated discussion of incendiary responses are dieing out, I wanted to revisit this thread to provide some clarity for my original post. Definitely, I believe the essential core of what I was trying to convey was misconstrued and lost to individual translation.

First, I want it to be known my post was never intended to be slanderous or injurious to any one individual or group of people. I have the upmost respect for my ancestors, my gbogbo and egunwa, and the struggles they endured. As a cultural consultant, I celebrate our history as a collective group of people from Jamestown to the Stono Rebellion to the Clotilda and the landing of Africatown in Mobile to Black Tulsa (GAP - Greenwood, Apple and Pine) to the Watts riots to the present. I would never look down in contempt as I recognize and appreciate the battles previous generations had to fight for me and future generations. Any information I am fortunate to come across is not perceived as anything new, but as a continuum to a legacy of struggle. I live by the expression "there is nothing new under the sun; it's not what you do, but how its done."

My post was not explicitly stating any disgruntlement with terminology. Frankly, there is no difference between using the terms "darkie", "Negro" or "Black"; the meanings are all the same or similar. One may have preference for one over the other based on spelling and sound, but essentially they all convey the same message. I have no time to grumble at terminology or better sounding words of choice; an attitude like such adds no value to any discussion and is utterly assine when speaking of advancing our people. I was engaged more with self-consciousness among our people and the right to exercise self-determination so we can began to speak from a greater position of strength.

It is act of Kujichagulia (Self-Determination) - "to define ourselves, name ourselves, create for ourselves and speak for ourselves."In order for any one person or group to practice self-determination, in the context we're speaking of, self-consciousness must be present - being able to perceive self or an awareness of.

Naming one's self is a self-consciousness event as opposed to accepting one's name by others. To illustrate, I will show the variance present in the names of groups of people. I use First Nation people because the variances inherent are readily known and the meanings variation are astounding.


First Nation Group

European Name or Other's name

Meanings


Haudenosaunee


IroquoisHaudenosaunee -People of the Longhose; Iroquois - Enemies (Snakes)
Lenni Lenape


DelawareLenni Lenape - Real Men or People; Delaware, state they originally inhabited
Numunu


ComancheNumunu - The People; Comanche - "he who fights me all the time" We see that each group have their own name for themselves, which is used to identify, promote solidarity and convey certain ethnic/cultural ideals among themselves. The names' by outsides or others have little effect for those named that can be empowering.

I will continue this discourse...

Blackbird