Spirituality Religion : Muslims Love Jesus as Much as Christians Do... [Archive] - Black People | African Americans

Aqil

05-12-2005, 09:53 AM

By John Casey

Some years ago an agnostic friend of mine married a Jewish woman who practiced her faith seriously. He took instruction in Judaism and seemed quite likely to convert - but eventually did not. His chief reason was that he remained agnostic. But there was another obstacle that surprised even himself: "I found that I just did not want to give up Jesus."

In European culture, there is no getting away from Jesus even if you are agnostic. True, Nietzsche tried to reject him with detestation and contempt, calling him an "idiot"; a purveyor of a sick, decadent view of the world. Nietzsche thought that the only figure in the New Testament who commands respect is Pontius Pilate. Yet the very ferocity of Nietzsche's onslaught on Jesus showed how strong in his heart was the image he wanted to destroy.

Now what if my friend had married a Muslim? The interesting thing is that he could have kept Jesus - not the Jesus who was the Son of God, admittedly, and who was crucified, but certainly the Jesus who was Messiah and miracle worker, who conversed regularly with God - who was born of a virgin and who ascended into heaven.

Jesus is referred to quite often in the Qur'an - six times under the title "Messiah." Yet I had long-supposed that the importance of Jesus as prophet in Muslim tradition was not much more than a matter of lip-service, something to which Muslims gave (to use Cardinal Newman's distinction) "notional" rather than "real" assent.

This impression was strengthened when I went to Ur of the Chaldees in southern Iraq and visited the so-called house of Abraham. It is only a few piles of sun-baked mud bricks, but you would have expected hundreds of Muslim Arabs to be visiting the birthplace of their Patriarch. I saw none - whereas the shrines of Muslim martyrs in Najaf and Kerbala were thronged. I assumed, therefore, that Jesus must be a marginal figure in the Muslim world.

How wrong this assumption was I have learned by reading a fascinating and instructive book, The Muslim Jesus, by the Cambridge academic Tarif Khalidi. Professor Khalidi has brought together, from a vast range of sources, most of the stories, sayings and traditions of Jesus that are to be found in Muslim piety from the earliest times.

The Muslim Jesus is an ascetic, a man of voluntary poverty, humility and long-suffering. He literally turns the other cheek, allowing his face to be slapped twice in order to protect two of his disciples. He teaches the return of good for evil: "Jesus used to say, 'Charity does not mean doing good to him who does good to you... Charity means that you should do good to him who does you harm.' "

He loves the poor and embraces poverty: "The day Jesus was raised to heaven, he left behind nothing but a woolen garment, a slingshot and two sandals." He preaches against attachment to worldly things: "Jesus said, 'He who seeks worldly things is like the man who drinks sea water: the more he drinks, the more thirsty he becomes, until it kills him.'"

Many of the sayings of the Muslim Jesus are clearly derived from Biblical sources - "Place your treasures in heaven, for the heart of man is where his treasure is"; "Look at the birds coming and going! They neither reap nor plough, and God provides for them." Sometimes there is a sort of gloss on words of Jesus from the Gospel: "Oh disciples, do not cast pearls before swine, for the swine can do nothing with them...wisdom is more precious than pearls and whomever rejects wisdom is worse than a swine."

He is certainly a wonder-worker. He often raises the dead, and gives his disciples power to do the same. More than once he comes across a skull and restores it to life; on one occasion granting salvation to a person who had been damned. The skulls, like everyone else in these stories, address Jesus as "Spirit of God." Once he is even addressed as "Word of God."

I once had a conversation with members of Hezbollah in Beirut. One of them said this: "The greatness of Islam is that we combine Judaism and Christianity. Jesus freed enslaved hearts; he was able to release human feeling; to reveal a kingdom of peace. Jesus's realm was the realm of the soul. Jesus is soul; Moses is mind - the mind of the legislator. In Islam, we interweave both."

This is certainly the Jesus of these stories - the Jesus of the mystical Sufi tradition. The great Muslim philosopher Al-Ghazali actually called Jesus "Prophet of the Heart."

The Muslim Jesus is not divine, but a humble servant of God. He was not crucified - Islam insists that the story of the killing of Jesus is false. He is, as it were, Jesus as he might have been without St. Paul or St. Augustine or the Council of Nice. He is not the cold figure of English unitarianism, and he is less grand than the exalted human of the Aryans. As you read these stories, what comes across most powerfully is that the Muslim Jesus is intensely loved. There is an element of St. Francis of Assisi in them.

It is good to be reminded, especially now, of the intimate connections there have been between Islam and Christianity, and how close in spirit Muslim and Christian piety can come to each other. Curiously enough, the Muslim Jesus, shorn of all claims of divinity, could be more easily held onto by my agnostic friend than the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

One other thing: Since Muslims deny the crucifixion, their emphasis has been on the wonders surrounding "the birth of Jesus, Son of Mary," born as his mother sat under a palm tree, and miraculously speaking from within the womb.

There really is no reason why schools that put on Nativity plays - or anyone who wants to insist on the Christian meaning of Christmas - should fear that they may offend Muslim sensibilities, for Jesus really is shared by both faiths...

(The Muslim Jesus, Tarif Khalidi, Harvard University Press)

Nisa

05-14-2005, 02:11 AM

Yes Muslims do..thanks for posting this..it was much needed

oceolo

05-21-2005, 07:24 AM

It does you no good to love Jesus without the knowledge that he is God.

Aqil

05-21-2005, 08:48 AM

It does you no good to love Jesus without the knowledge that he is God.This is a false statement, oceolo. Here are a few verses in the Bible that prove Jesus could not possibly be God:

“Jesus cried out with a loud voice, ‘My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me?’” (Mark 15:34)

If Jesus was God, what or whom could he have been praying to? And to cry is a human weakness…

“Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the Devil.” (Matthew 4:1)

If Jesus was God, how could the devil possibly be able to tempt Him? Without Him knowing? And what could the devil possibly offer the Creator of the Universe and all that is contained therein? And that includes the devil himself/herself…

“If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother and wife and children, and brethren and sister, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26)

If Jesus was God, and He so loved the world, why would you have to hate your family and even yourself, when the Bible says that hatred is a sin? (See Leviticus 19:1)

“In my father’s house are many mansions.” (John 14:2)

Jesus said in my father’s house…he did not say in MY house. Would it have made sense to say in my house if he was God?

“I must be about my Father’s business…” (Luke 2:49)

If Jesus was God, why did he say, “I must be about my father’s business?” In this verse Jesus actually indicates the distinction between himself and his Father…the Father of all humanity…

The Bible speaks about Jesus being the Son of God…not God Himself. Here is further proof that Jesus and The Father are separate entities:

We know that Jesus was a man…because he was baptized (Matthew 1:25)…he was tempted (Matthew 3:13)…he slept (Matthew 4:1)…he ate (Matthew 8:24)…he hungered (Matthew 21:18 and Luke 24:41)…he weakened (John 4:6)…he said something he shouldn't have said (John 20:17)…and he cried at Lazarus’ grave (John 20:17).

The Greek word for “trinity” is “triad” (1 John 5:7). Triad simply means “tri,” which means three. when you take any three things and say they make up any one thing, that would be a trinity. There is no way of having a trinity without first separating each of the three things individually, to declare them a trinity...by that I mean you have to first establish that there is (1) a father, (2) a son, and (3) a “holy ghost.” In order for these things to totally mix and become one they would have to start off equally in rank, quantity, space, density, authority or existence. In admitting the son came from the father, time makes the difference; the father would have to have been first. This would make them unequal and incapable of becoming a balanced triad. It did not mean that when it said, “God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost” equals one God, because three cannot go into one.

Jesus is not alive and the Father is God, not the son. Jesus, according to Christian teachings, died at the age of 33. By saying he is “alive again” means that God died before, which makes absolutely no sense. Christians say that he is alive again for he is God. So what they’re saying is that God died and came back to life, and at some point He stopped being God! GOD IS ALL-EXISTING…and has made it possible for all things to exist. If he “dies,” what do you think would happen to the rest of us? We would all cease to exist as well because we are all apart of the Heavenly Father.

Also, if Jesus is God, then who was he praying to in Matthew 6:9-13, when he says, “Our father, who art in heaven”? He is not God, or otherwise he would have been praying to Himself. Jesus was an Israelite, and it is common sense that he would not violate such a powerful Israelite/Judaic commandment as the worship of God alone (Exodus 20:3-4) by claiming to be that very God whom he prays to in Matthew 26:39: “and he went a little farther and fell on his face and prayed, saying, O Father my Father.” It doesn’t make much sense for Jesus to pray to himself, for if he was God, he would have no need to pray. In several quotes in the New Testament Jesus made it clear that you are to worship God – and not him. When he made reference to God, he used the third-person singular “him,” not the first-person singular “me.”

In Luke 4:8 Jesus admonishes the Devil: “And Jesus answered and said unto him, ‘Get thee behind me Satan, for it is written, thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and Him only shalt thou serve.” He said worship HIM, not me...

In John 4:23-24 Jesus states: “but the hour cometh, and now is when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father seeketh such to worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." He said worship HIM, and not me...

And in John 14:10 Jesus gives all praise and gratitude to his Heavenly Father: “Believeth thou not that I am in the Father and the father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me; He doeth the works." He used the word HE, not me...

No man's body can contain God, not if you mean that he has the essence of his father in him… all mankind are God's sons and daughters (read Genesis 2:7)…when God breathed into man the breath of life, “And the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul…”

However, getting back to the point of whether he incarnated or became himself, there still wouldn't be any need for him to pray or ask for assistance from anyone if he was God…not only would he not need to pray he would have no desire to eat! (Luke 24:41) “Beg that death passes him.” (Matthew 26:39)…"Feared and ran for his life." (John 18:3) which means that God has to run from His Creation...(!)

Another quality that Jesus did not possess – according to Romans 13:1 and 2nd Corinthians 1:23 – is the power to assign the soul their positions in the hereafter. Only the Heavenly Father possesses such power. Exalting Jesus beyond the truth is shown to be a form of idolatry. Once again in Matthew 7:21 Jesus tells people to “do the will of the Father.”

In both Luke 4:8 and Matthew 4:10 we come across an incident that clearly contradicts the concept of Jesus claiming absolute divinity. According to these two references – Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34, Jesus was put on the cross and left to die. Then, according to those who believe the crucifixion story, at that time Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me?"

If Jesus was God, he would not have to say any of these things in the first place. How could you possibly forsake your own self? If he was God, he would not need consent from anyone. This could not possibly be the words of a person who saw himself as the Controller of All Life and Death because he cried out, “My God.” It simply isn't logical. Jesus never encouraged anyone to worship him…instead, he taught others to worship his Father…as I have shown you using Scripture.

NEBANKH

05-21-2005, 09:39 AM

First of all, saying that "Jesus" is not God because he spoke is absurd. The definition of God has to be fully determined. In the old testament God spoke to moses and "God" also repented. Exodus 5:1 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Let my people go, Exodus 5:3 And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us: Main Entry: [1]god
Pronunciation: 'gäd also 'god
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German got god
Date: before 12th century
1 : capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe b : Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler

Pronunciation Key

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Notice that God is also defined as a powerful ruler.
Main Entry: Je·sus
Pronunciation: 'jE-z&s, -z&z also -"z&s and -"z&z
Function: noun
Etymology: Late Latin, from Greek IEsous, from Hebrew YEsh'ua`
1 : the Jewish religious teacher whose life, death, and resurrection as reported by the Evangelists are the basis of the Christian message of salvation — called also Jesus Christ
2 : Christian Science : the highest human corporeal concept of the divine idea rebuking and destroying error and bringing to light man's immortality

Pronunciation Key

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Jesus is defined as a Rabbi or religious teacher. However there is no J in the hebrew language so the name Jesus is Greek.
Thirdly all of the story of Jesus is allegorical and can be related to Amun-Ra-Ptah. Amun being the father, Ra the sun (son) and Ptah divine intelligence or the holy word. The book Black power and the unveilation of the bible should be out this year 2005 which will more fully explain "God". In the meantime click onto www.pyramidoftruth.com and www.themysteryoflife.com and from there the internet radio program at live365 pyramidoftruth.com

Aqil

05-21-2005, 01:07 PM

The renowned Jewish rabbi, physician and philosopher Maimonides devotes most of his famous Guide for the Perplexed to the fundamental idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Bible says: "God is not a man..." (Numbers 23:19).

Aqil

05-21-2005, 05:55 PM

Here is the one-God concept of the ancient Egyptians of Africa:

“God is one and alone, and none other existeth with Him – God is the One, the One who hath made all things – God is a spirit, a hidden spirit, the spirit of spirits, the great spirit of the Egyptians, the Divine spirit – God is from the beginning, and He hath been from the beginning...

He hath existed from old and was when nothing else had being. He existed when nothing else existed, and what existeth He created after He had come into being...

He is the Father of beginnings – God is the Eternal One, He is eternal and infinite and endureth forever, and yes – God is hidden and no man knoweth His form. No man hath been able to seek out His likeness; He is hidden to the gods and men, and He is a mystery unto His creatures...

No man knoweth how to know Him – His name remaineth hidden; His name is a mystery unto His children. His names are innumerable; they are manifold and none knoweth their number...

God is truth and He feedeth thereon. He is the king of truth, and He hath established the Earth thereupon – God is life and through Him only man liveth. He giveth life to man, He breatheth the breath of life into his nostrils – God is father and mother, the father of fathers and the mother of mothers. He begetteth, but was never begotten; He produceth, but was never produced; He begat himself and produced himself. He createth, but was never created; He is the maker of His own form and the fashioner of His own body.

God Himself is existence, He endureth without increase or diminution, He multiplieth Himself millions of times, and He is manifold in forms and in numbers – God hath made the Universe, and He created all that therein is; He is the Creator of what is in this world, and of what was, of what is, and of what shall be. He is the Creator of the Heavens, and of the Earth, and of the deep, and of the water, and of the mountains.

God hath stretched out the Heavens and founded the Earth – what His heart conceived straightway came to pass, and when He hath spoken, it cometh to pass and endureth forever – God is the father of the gods; He fashioned men and formed the gods – God is merciful unto those who reverence Him, and He heareth him that calleth upon Him. God knoweth him that acknowledges Him; He rewardeth him that serveth Him, and He protecteth him that followeth Him.”

(The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Papyrus of Ani, transliteration and translation by E.A. Wallis Budge, pp. xcii-xciii)

Ralfa'il

05-21-2005, 06:39 PM

God is one and alone, and none other existeth with Him – God is the One, the One who hath made all things – God is a spirit, a hidden spirit, the spirit of spirits, the great spirit of the Egyptians, the Divine spirit – God is from the beginning, and He hath been from the beginning...

He hath existed from old and was when nothing else had being. He existed when nothing else existed, and what existeth He created after He had come into being...

He is the Father of beginnings – God is the Eternal One, He is eternal and infinite and endureth forever, and yes – God is hidden and no man knoweth His form. No man hath been able to seek out His likeness; He is hidden to the gods and men, and He is a mystery unto His creatures...
So the Ancient Egyptians recognized God as male and as a spirit.

Just like the Muslims.

Aqil

05-21-2005, 08:44 PM

Naam aqi...

oceolo

05-22-2005, 03:11 AM

Aqil

05-22-2005, 08:00 AM

Allah (swt) is the unique God, without partner, incomparable, the only necessary Being, the only absolute Reality, self-subsisting, self-sufficient, the Highest, the Sublime, the Magnificent, the Praiseworthy, the Holy, the Living, the Eternal, the Creator, the Almighty, the Judge, the Benefactor, the Clement, the Guardian, the Protector, the Just, the Gentle, the Compassionate, the First and the Last, the Apparent and the Hidden, the One by whom all live and to whom all return...

oceolo

05-22-2005, 10:38 PM

Aqil

05-22-2005, 10:42 PM

Allah (God) is the Creator of the Universe and All That is Contained Therein.

IssaEl21

05-22-2005, 11:40 PM

God is one but the exact nature of God and what exactly he is cant be known by us but we know enough about him to know he loves us.

The Word For God Is Eloheem = God's So Which Are You Speaking Of And Don't Say Jesus ,

oceolo

05-23-2005, 12:08 AM

The Word For God Is Eloheem = God's So Which Are You Speaking Of And Don't Say Jesus ,
God is God and he is one but he reveals himself as father ,son and holy spirit but he is still just one god . This is hard to understand fully because of our limited humanistic knowledge God cant be adequately defined in our terms but the important thing is God is all good and all powerful and he loves us all.

info-moetry

05-24-2005, 02:42 AM

God is God and he is one but he reveals himself as father ,son and holy spirit but he is still just one god . This is hard to understand fully because of our limited humanistic knowledge God cant be adequately defined in our terms but the important thing is God is all good and all powerful and he loves us all.

- "our limited humanistic knowledge"..........NO not so, all one have to do is look up the Nicene Council of 325 AD to see where the so-called Trinity comes from.........(as said so many times b4, funny no christian has ever responded to what they have seen when they looked this up) - they just come back madder than ever without mentioning a thing about the Nicene Council!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Strange...............don't you think???

oceolo

05-24-2005, 03:06 AM

- "our limited humanistic knowledge"..........NO not so, all one have to do is look up the Nicene Council of 325 AD to see where the so-called Trinity comes from.........(as said so many times b4, funny no christian has ever responded to what they have seen when they looked this up) - they just come back madder than ever without mentioning a thing about the Nicene Council!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Strange...............don't you think???

Your point about the council at Nice is invalid because the scriptures was written centuries beforehand so the trinity could not have been made up at Nice.

Aqil

05-24-2005, 09:42 AM

All religions are but roads to the same Place, oceolo. It is only when some people say, “My road is the only road” that the pathway to the Place becomes blocked. The divisions existing between the various roads have been created – to a large extent – by the mind of man, even though many of these roads have been truly divinely inspired. These divisions have caused so much suffering – both on a personal and universal level – that it has become increasingly important for each of us to realize the essential Oneness of it all, no matter what one’s inherited religious dogma is.

The truth is, however, all dogma is false in The Absolute - as are all doctrines - for they attempt to encapsulate Infinity. What a given religion does is adapt an aspect of the One for the level of consciousness and socio-economic structure of a particular race at a given moment in eternity. No path is the True Path, for in The Absolute there is no “truthfulness” or “falsehood”; no “right” and no “wrong”; no “yes” and no “no.”

The Doctrine of the Trinity

Christianity regards itself as a monotheistic religion, for it teaches the existence of one God - specifically, Yahweh, the God of the Jews. It shares this belief with two other major world religions, Judaism and Islam. However, Christian monotheism is a unique kind of monotheism. It holds that God is One, but that three distinct "persons" constitute the one God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This unique threefold God of Christian belief is referred to as the Trinity ("tri" + "unity").

The doctrine of the Trinity took centuries to develop, but the roots of the doctrine can be seen from the first century. The word "Trinity" is not found in the New Testament, nor is the doctrine explicitly taught there. However, foundations of the concept of the Trinity can be seen in the New Testament, especially in the Gospel of John, one of the latest and most theologically developed of the New Testament books.

Hints of Trinitarian beliefs can also be seen in the teachings of extra-Biblical writers as early as the end of the first century. However, the clearest early expression of the concept came with Tertullian, a Latin theologian who wrote in the early third century. Tertullian coined the words "Trinity" and "person" and explained that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were "one in essence - not one in Person."

About a century later, in 325, the Council of Nicea set out to officially define the relationship of the Son to the Father, in response to the controversial teachings of Arius. Led by bishop Athanasius, the council established the doctrine of the Trinity as orthodoxy and condemned Arius' teaching that Christ was the first creation of God. The creed adopted by the council described Christ as "God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (homoousios) with the Father."

Nicea did not end the controversy, however. Debate over how the creed (especially the phrase "one substance") ought to be interpreted continued to rage for decades. One group advocated the doctrine that Christ was a "similar substance" (homoiousios) as the Father. But for the most part, the issue of the Trinity was settled at Nicea and, by the fifth century, never again became a focus of serious controversy.

Most post-Nicene theological discussion of the Trinity consisted of attempts to understand and explain such a unique concept. Gregory of Nyssa, in his treatise, That There are Not Three Gods, compared the divinity shared by the three persons of the Trinity to the common "humanness," or human nature, that is shared by individual human beings. (Ironically, this initially promising explanation has been seen by some to yield a conclusion quite opposite than the title of his work.) Saint Augustine, one of the greatest thinkers of the early church, described the Trinity as comparable to the three parts of an individual human being: mind, spirit, and will. They are three distinct aspects, yet they are inseparable and together constitute one unified human being.

Despite its widespread acceptance among Christians, the doctrine of the Trinity has been a stumbling block to many non-Christians throughout its history. The fiercely monotheistic Jews rejected the idea of the Trinity since it first arose, it has been similarly rejected by Islam since that religion was founded, and many other men and women of all backgrounds have found the concept difficult to understand or accept. In the New Testament, Jews are described as rejecting Jesus' apparent claims to divinity, accusing him of blasphemy. In the Book of Mark, for instance, Jesus forgives a man's sins and some Jewish teachers thought to themselves: "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?" In the Gospel of John, some Jews began to stone Jesus, explaining that they did so "for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

The great Jewish philosopher Maimonides also rejected the Trinitarian beliefs of Christians. In his aversion to what he considered to be Christian dilutions of pure monotheism, especially in its doctrine of the Trinity, much of Maimonides' philosophical critique of Christian theology is similar to Islamic arguments against it. In his earlier work, Maimonides translated his theoretical disdain of Christianity into practice. He deemed Christians to be idolators and bemoaned the fact that political necessity forced many European Jews to live in Christian societies. Today, Jewish counter-missionary movements like "Jews for Judaism" seek to educate Jews about why belief in the Trinity is incompatible with Judaism.

oceolo

05-24-2005, 06:44 PM

Aqil

05-24-2005, 07:02 PM

What is the source of your information?

oceolo

05-24-2005, 07:06 PM

The council at Nice took place in 325 A.D. the scriptures were written down centuries before so the council couldnt have made up the concept of the trinity.

info-moetry

05-24-2005, 08:02 PM

What is the source of your information?

he/she has no source other than a mystery he/she calls God.............

info-moetry

05-24-2005, 08:14 PM

The council at Nice took place in 325 A.D. the scriptures were written down centuries before so the council couldnt have made up the concept of the trinity.

"the scriptures" - would you mind breaking down what/which scriptures you are referring too! Your monotheistic Trinity WAS in fact first introduced at the Council of Nice in 325 AD.

WHere is your proof that it didn't?? A child could have responded with what you responded with....."ThE SCRIPTURES" ........there were no scriptures, only scrolls that were later translated and NONE OF THEM contained anything about what you Christians call a trinity unitl 325 ad!!

You are worshipping 3 different Gods and don't even know it!!! You worship the Son (SuN)as you pray to him when he told you to pray to the FATHER (1) and when questioned about Jesus you say he is GOd on Earth which means you ALSO worship GOD (2)......then, you say that you are waiting for CHRIST to return or some of you say in spirit form and you also pray to this spirit, which makes (3) different GOds.........which is all Euro nonsensethat can not be supported with any amount of truth!!

The simple fact that you can not provide proof other than "the scriptures were written down centuriwes b4 the council so the council couldn't have made up the trinity" is very weak! ALmost sounds as if you don't believe your own words.............

Show it to me "trinity" in a "scripture" prior to 325 ad...............

oceolo

05-24-2005, 10:26 PM

"the scriptures" - would you mind breaking down what/which scriptures you are referring too! Your monotheistic Trinity WAS in fact first introduced at the Council of Nice in 325 AD.

WHere is your proof that it didn't?? A child could have responded with what you responded with....."ThE SCRIPTURES" ........there were no scriptures, only scrolls that were later translated and NONE OF THEM contained anything about what you Christians call a trinity unitl 325 ad!!

You are worshipping 3 different Gods and don't even know it!!! You worship the Son (SuN)as you pray to him when he told you to pray to the FATHER (1) and when questioned about Jesus you say he is GOd on Earth which means you ALSO worship GOD (2)......then, you say that you are waiting for CHRIST to return or some of you say in spirit form and you also pray to this spirit, which makes (3) different GOds.........which is all Euro nonsensethat can not be supported with any amount of truth!!

The simple fact that you can not provide proof other than "the scriptures were written down centuriwes b4 the council so the council couldn't have made up the trinity" is very weak! ALmost sounds as if you don't believe your own words.............

Show it to me "trinity" in a "scripture" prior to 325 ad...............

Have you ever heard of Clement of Rome he wrote letters to the church in 95 A.D. which mention the trinity . He was quoting the new testament.

There are not 3 different Gods just one but he is revealed to us three ways Father ,Son and Holy Spirit.

info-moetry

05-24-2005, 10:29 PM

Have you ever heard of Clement of Rome he wrote letters to the church in 95 A.D. which mention the trinity . He was quoting the new testament

How could he be quoting from a book that did not exist at that time.........

have you ever heard of PROOF?????

oceolo

05-24-2005, 10:45 PM

How could he be quoting from a book that did not exist at that time.........

have you ever heard of PROOF?????

The new testament did exist at that time because they were written a few decades after Christ death. They werent made up at Nice. Much of the new testament were actually letters written by the apostles and given to the early christian church in order to instruct them on how to live a christian life in the correct way .The bible and everything written in it is the truth

Nisa

05-24-2005, 11:15 PM

This is one of the many lies the devil uses to lead us astray Aqil . There is only one way to God(Jesus Christ) any else is just a lie from the devil. Pray to God for guidance this truth will be revealed to you.

So are you saying..people that dont "follow"..Jesus or christianity are going to hell...I dont be gettin some of this stuff..lawd.

info-moetry

05-24-2005, 11:22 PM

The new testament did exist at that time because they were written a few decades after Christ death. They werent made up at Nice. Much of the new testament were actually letters written by the apostles and given to the early christian church in order to instruct them on how to live a christian life in the correct way .The bible and everything written in it is the truth

how could the "New" Testament have existed a few decades after ( I didn't know that Christ died, I thought it was Jesus) Jesus, when the Gospels (or remaining Gospels) were written 30 -100 or so years after the MADE UP cruci - fiction..................which is the foundation of YOUR "NEW" Testament????????

oceolo

05-25-2005, 01:29 AM

how could the "New" Testament have existed a few decades after ( I didn't know that Christ died, I thought it was Jesus) Jesus, when the Gospels (or remaining Gospels) were written 30 -100 or so years after the MADE UP cruci - fiction..................which is the foundation of YOUR "NEW" Testament????????

If you want to continue to believe lies then I cant stop you but hopefully you will learn and accept the truth one day .Peace

oceolo

05-25-2005, 01:32 AM

So are you saying..people that dont "follow"..Jesus or christianity are going to hell...I dont be gettin some of this stuff..lawd.

I know this may seem hard to accept the truth is often hard to accept but it still is the truth. If you pray to God and read the bible the truth will be revealed to you . I hope you do it soon. Peace

Nisa

05-25-2005, 01:49 AM

I know this may seem hard to accept the truth is often hard to accept but it still is the truth. If you pray to God and read the bible the truth will be revealed to you . I hope you do it soon. Peace

It's not the truth. I pray to God, I don't read the bible.but just because you read the Bible..it doesnt make you holier than thou.The truth is the truth no matter what the source is.

oceolo

05-25-2005, 01:55 AM

It's not the truth. I pray to God, I don't read the bible.but just because you read the Bible..it doesnt make you holier than thou.The truth is the truth no matter what the source is.
I agree the truth is the truth and it can be found in the bible .

Nisa

05-25-2005, 03:22 AM

I agree the truth is the truth and it can be found in the bible .

The bible is not the only source of the truth.

oceolo

05-25-2005, 06:10 AM

The bible is not the only source of the truth.
God is the source of all truth the bible is God 's word and anything that corroborates the bible is true and anything that goes against it is false.

Sekhemu

05-25-2005, 07:42 AM

God is the source of all truth the bible is God 's word and anything that corroborates the bible is true and anything that goes against it is false.

Prove to us that the bible is God's word, and please use references other than your bible. In fact, prove to us that your jesus existed, i.e. grave, tomb artifacts etc.

SAMURAI36

05-25-2005, 08:39 AM

Prove to us that the bible is God's word, and please use references other than your bible. In fact, prove to us that your jesus existed, i.e. grave, tomb artifacts etc.

Uh-oh!! In order for him/her to do that, he/she has to actually :read:

:lol:

Nisa

05-25-2005, 02:43 PM

God is the source of all truth the bible is God 's word and anything that corroborates the bible is true and anything that goes against it is false.

Boy oh boy. The bible is not the only source of God's word. Come on...now..dont get twisted and brainwashed. This is hilarious.

SAMURAI36

05-25-2005, 02:45 PM

Boy oh boy. The bible is not the only source of God's word. Come on...now..dont get twisted and brainwashed. This is hilarious.

Now you see why I've stopped conversing with this person. It's pointless.

At least my other "opponent" on here had more potential.

Nisa

05-25-2005, 02:48 PM

Now you see why I've stopped conversing with this person. It's pointless.

At least my other "opponent" on here had more potential.

Yeh it is ..its like um where is the backup for these statements...time to move on to another thread. I need some good debate hehehe..shoot might make some carrot cake.

oceolo

05-25-2005, 05:54 PM

SAMURAI36

05-25-2005, 05:56 PM

OK, You're right................

So will you go away now? :donttell:

Nisa

05-25-2005, 06:02 PM

oceolo

05-25-2005, 06:19 PM

If we reject you we reject God?!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol:

No what I said was if you reject me when I speak God's truth you are rejecting God not me.

Nisa

05-25-2005, 07:45 PM

No what I said was if you reject me when I speak God's truth you are rejecting God not me.

Oh..and it always comes from the bible right? :uhoh:

info-moetry

05-25-2005, 07:55 PM

I cant make you believe the truth this is something you have to do on your own. Like it or not what I speak is the truth because what I speak comes from God so when you reject me you are really rejecting God.I hope one day God will give each of you a revalation that make you accept the truth and not the devil's lies.

if what you speak comes from God, then your God does not speak very much, nor does he have a very good vocabulary as all you do is say the same thing over and over again as if you're in a trance!!

please share some kNOWLEDGE as opossed to trying to spook people out because they intelligently (GOD) search for more knowledge...........You are doing more harm than good and most of the harm is too yourself, but you won't listen to others try to warn you because you think they are supposed to listen to you..................

:ghost:

oceolo

05-25-2005, 09:32 PM

if what you speak comes from God, then your God does not speak very much, nor does he have a very good vocabulary as all you do is say the same thing over and over again as if you're in a trance!!

please share some kNOWLEDGE as opossed to trying to spook people out because they intelligently (GOD) search for more knowledge...........You are doing more harm than good and most of the harm is too yourself, but you won't listen to others try to warn you because you think they are supposed to listen to you..................

:ghost:

If I say the samething over and over it is because you keep asking the same questions over and over and also keep bringing up the same flawed logic over and over. I am not trying to spook just trying to warn that you are on a path to destruction if you dont repent and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

info-moetry

05-25-2005, 10:07 PM

oceolo

05-25-2005, 11:18 PM

oh, ok thanks for clearing that up for me........bye bye!!!

your welcome.

SAMURAI36

05-26-2005, 09:05 AM

:ghost: = MYSTERY SPOOK GOD

1-40, BORN and KNOWLEDGE-CYPHER DEGREES.

Sekhemu

05-26-2005, 11:09 AM

If I say the samething over and over it is because you keep asking the same questions over and over and also keep bringing up the same flawed logic over and over. I am not trying to spook just trying to warn that you are on a path to destruction if you dont repent and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

"I am not trying to spook just trying to warn that you are on a path to destruction if you don't repent and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior" This is exactly what the slave master taught our ancestors as he proceeded to rob us of our power. If was only about our "faith" then why did he take away the drum and prohibit us from using our languages?

oceolo

05-26-2005, 11:15 AM

"I am not trying to spook just trying to warn that you are on a path to destruction if you don't repent and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior" This is exactly what the slave master taught our ancestors as he proceeded to rob us of our power. If was only about our "faith" then why did he take away the drum and prohibit us from using our languages?

Slave masters are not christian even if they claim to be . A true christian would never enslave another.

Sekhemu

05-26-2005, 11:19 AM

Slave masters are not christian even if they claim to be . A true christian would never inslave another.

Then why are the majority of us Christian today, if not for the religion of the slave master.

Sekhemu

05-26-2005, 11:21 AM

By the way, I'm still waiting for your "proof" that the bible is God's word. Remember to give sources other than your bible, to do otherwise would mean you are not being objective.

oceolo

05-26-2005, 11:28 AM

Then why are the majority of us Christian today, if not for the religion of the slave master.

I am not a christian because my ancestors were taught to be christian by unchristian like slave masters . I am a christian because I have found that through pray God has shown me the truth and the bible corroborates that truth.

oceolo

05-26-2005, 11:33 AM

By the way, I'm still waiting for your "proof" that the bible is God's word. Remember to give sources other than your bible, to do otherwise would mean you are not being objective.

When I study other religions and their books and or writings I have found them to be flawed . Christianity is the only faith and the bible the only book of truth because the bible accurately depicts the truth about God and human nature while everything else is clearly(atleast to christians) full of flaws and immorality.

SAMURAI36

05-26-2005, 12:02 PM

oceolo

05-26-2005, 12:33 PM

What are these "flaws" that you've discovered during your "study" of other faiths?

Buddhism teaches that there is no God the creator which is wrong

Islam teaches that when you go to heaven you will have 72 virgins how can this be moral ? Do these virgins have a will of their own? What do that get from being in heaven?

Hinduism teaches people to worship cows and rats and make human sacrifices to certain gods? This cant be right.

Judaism rejects the Messiah(Jesus) even though the things that Jesus didnt during his were prophesied in the old testament scriptures but they still refused to except them .

All ancient mythologies depict gods with human flaws and weaknesses. How can you worship gods like that?

Any religion or belief that tells you God and creation are one and the same is wrong . How can God create himself ?

Anyone who tells you they are their own god is seriously mistaken . How can you be a god ? Do you worship yourself? If everyone is their own personal god then that means their is no truth because everyone would have their own idea of whats right and wrong which would make life on earth complete chaos.

Under examination you have to come to the conclusion that Christ is the only way to heaven and that the bible is the word of God.

Nisa

05-26-2005, 01:16 PM

Buddhism teaches that there is no God the creator which is wrong

Islam teaches that when you go to heaven you will have 72 virgins how can this be moral ? Do these virgins have a will of their own? What do that get from being in heaven?

Hinduism teaches people to worship cows and rats and make human sacrifices to certain gods? This cant be right.

Judaism rejects the Messiah(Jesus) even though the things that Jesus didnt during his were prophesied in the old testament scriptures but they still refused to except them .

All ancient mythologies depict gods with human flaws and weaknesses. How can you worship gods like that?

Any religion or belief that tells you God and creation are one and the same is wrong . How can God create himself ?

Anyone who tells you they are their own god is seriously mistaken . How can you be a god ? Do you worship yourself? If everyone is their own personal god then that means their is no truth because everyone would have their own idea of whats right and wrong which would make life on earth complete chaos.

Under examination you have to come to the conclusion that Christ is the only way to heaven and that the bible is the word of God.

Can you give us quotes from the bible/other sources instead of self created theories.

Aqil

05-26-2005, 01:39 PM

Islam teaches that when you go to heaven you will have 72 virgins. How can this be moral? Do these virgins have a will of their own? What do they get from being in heaven?Who told you this???

Nisa

05-26-2005, 01:43 PM

Who told you this???

My sentiments exactly :lol: People come up with their own misinterpretations of things...boy smh

SAMURAI36

05-26-2005, 01:49 PM

The problem with this, is that Christianity falls under many of the "failings" (they are only such, because you don't understand them, like alot of other people around here):

Hinduism teaches people to worship cows and rats and make human sacrifices to certain gods? This cant be right.

I posed the question of what "RAT" is being worshipped in Hinduism, and no one has yet to answer. For that matter, no animal is worshipped in any aspect within Hinduism.

The concept of totemism is not the same as worship.

However, the concept of Human sacrifice is not only present within Christianity, it is its very foundation.

Thus, by your "logic", Christianity is guilty of this failing.

All ancient mythologies depict gods with human flaws and weaknesses. How can you worship gods like that?

I could ask you the very same thing, since according to Christianity YOU worship JESUS, who of his own admission had "human flaws" ("flesh is weak"; "I can of my own self do nothing", etc.).

Thus, I pose your own question to you: How can you worship gods like that?

Judaism rejects the Messiah(Jesus) even though the things that Jesus didnt during his were prophesied in the old testament scriptures but they still refused to except them .

Not to speak for the Jews--as I could care even less about them and their religion, as I do about yours--but miracle workers was never anything special for them; there were alchemists and seers galore in their culture. Not to mention the fact that there wre numerous references to "MESSIAHS" within Hebrew culture. It's not a term that has religious exclusivity.

Besides, it takes more than spouting Neo-Kemetic philosophy to impress a people. If that were the case, then the Black community would see Conscious people as their saviors.

Any religion or belief that tells you God and creation are one and the same is wrong . How can God create himself ?

Again, you betray yet another Christian flaw. Do you not belief that GOD the FATHER and GOD the SON are one and the same?

Anyone who tells you they are their own god is seriously mistaken . How can you be a god ? Do you worship yourself? If everyone is their own personal god then that means their is no truth because everyone would have their own idea of whats right and wrong which would make life on earth complete chaos.

Like everyone else that attempts to refute this philosophy, you do so without having absolutely ANY understanding of it. And since you've proven that you do not want any such understanding, I'm not going to bother trying to explain it to you.

As God, I do not "worship" my-Self (the concept of worship is grossly misinterpreted), any more than Jesus worshipped him-Self.

Besides, once again, we see the Christian duplicity, in that JESUS sited the principle of God-In-Self in JOHN Chapter 10. He even cited PSALMS as proof of such.

It's typical of the left-brained believer; the semantics and word-play of my faith works for me, but it's dead wrong in any other faith.

With the exception of the concept of the ISLAMIC "HEAVEN" (which I agree is utterly ridiculous), your "studies" are way off the mark, though no less applicable to your Slave Religion of Christianity.

PEACE

SAMURAI36

05-26-2005, 02:06 PM

Hinduism teaches people to worship cows and rats and make human sacrifices to certain gods? This cant be right.

Here is a list of the DIVAS, AVATARS, and BRHAMAN (deities):

The Trinity
Brahma
Vishnu
Shiva

Vedic Deities
These deities represent forces of nature or devas and are not equivalent to Brahman represented as Vishnu or Shiva.

Indra
Surya
Agni
Vayu
Varuna
Yama
Kubera
Soma
Mitra
Kama
Gayatri
Aditi
Ushas
Sarasvati
Rudra

Avatars of Vishnu
Matsya (the Fish)
Kurma (the Tortoise)
Varaha (the Boar)
Narasimha (Half Lion, Half Man)
Vamana (The Brahmin Dwarf)
Parashurama (The Warrior)
Rama (The King and Pinnacle of Dharma)
Krishna (Purnavatar or the Full, Plenary, Ultimate Avatar)
Buddha (The Enlightened One, Great Religious Teacher)
Kalki (The Final Avatar as Man on White Horse)

Relatives
Ganesha
Parvati
Karttikeya
Sita
Hanuman

Mother goddesses
Shakti
Devi
Kali
Durga
Lakshmi
Amman

Since you've made the claim that you've "studied" Hinduism, then you should certainly readily know which of these deities is a "rat".

Please name the "Rat" in this list.

PEACE

IssaEl21

05-26-2005, 03:23 PM

He lived within a community . There havebeen many different accounts written in which people have spoken about The Essene , But littleisknown about this strictly spiritual comminity . The Order Of The Essene was made of men who remained to themselves from other Societies , But they never give you real depth of an Essene .

The Essenes Are called by many names , such as The Magi , The Elders , The Wisemen Hanif , Etc , Communities of The Essene Were set up all around the world , But all are linken together as one . There were also Different Schools Og Thought , Meaning each has A Master over it and they were taught a slightly different doctrine depending on where they were from .

The Essenes , Who were Therapeuts '' One Who Minister '' . As They Were Called In Tama - Re ( Egipt ) . Were theones behind the scenes to bring King David , Son Of Jesse And Hilmah back to life in the Privacy of the palace . They had created a massive plot to disrupt the leadership that had taken place in Jerusalem by what they called The Children Of Darkness .

The also assisted from behind the scene Yashu'a / Jesus Of 2,000 Years Ago .. In all of his undertaking . The Essense were behind Yashu'aWhole life . Their order , The Ancient Mystic Order Of Melchizedek called The Sons Of The Desert .
Hebrew 6; 20 And I Quote , Whither the forerunner is for us entered , even Jesus made a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec ;....

Called The Sons Of The Desert , Received their rituals from Tama - Reye / Egiptian And Sumerian practices . They Were Holders Of Great Mysteries within theirorder and much Symbolism was used within their community . They were the ones who gathered to record and presetve The Scriptures of old in Canisters .

The site of The Essence was called Zion , or simply the little Jerusalem away from JerusalemThe Holy Tablets Chapter 15 , Tablets 3 Verse 6 - 34 And I Quote , The Magi were a group of mystics known by many different names . They lived in communities set up all around the world . These Magi or wisemen were linken together as one through theorder of the Essenes .
The Essenes were very strict , observing daily prayers , foretelling the future and being well learnt in the Scriptures .

Logging the motion and movement of the stars The Essenes followed the Levitical purity laws strictly and avoided contamination by the outside world . They saw the Jerusalem of theirday governed by the Pharisees , the Sadducees , the Sanhedrin andthe false Kohen Priest as children of wickedness . thus , they removed themselves to the mountains of the Jordan to form the New Jerusalem , Mount Zion .

.They received their laws from Leviticus , one of the scrolls received by Moses . They kept themselves isolated and lived for , of and by each other . No one had individual proprety and they all shared in the ownership rights . If one member visited another communitity he or she was treated with utmost hospitality and concern . Their livelihood was sowing and planting . Some were herdsmen bee keepers writers and healers . So worked as handicrafts , writers and healers using roots and herbs .

They raised the locust plant which was a part of their diet . This is the same locust which Yuhanna the baptist ate in the wilderness with wild honey . The Essenes were ascetic and advocated a vegetarian diet . Some of the Essenes were astrologers . Their System of astrology has passed on from the Ancient Mystic Order of Melchizdek , of which they were a branch . They were to log the birth of an indivdual . This was called solar biology , For you would not only be what sign you were born under .

But Because Your Father Was One Sign And Your Mother Another Sign . The 33 And 1/3 rd Chromosome That Come Through Your Father Put His Sign Into You . And The 33 And1/3 rd Chromosome That Came From Your Mother Put Her Sign In You . And Then The 33 And 1/3 rd That Makes Up The Sign You Were Born Under Means That That Each Person Is Born With 3 Signs Equally Manifesting In Their Character . The Essenes Believed In Selective Birth For Selected Characters .

So The Essenes Were Holder Of Great Mysteries Within Their Order And Much Symbolism Was Used With Their Community ;...It is said that Archeologist have found between Jericho , Masada . And Qumran . A community type of Living in an Oasis . An Oasis Is A Fertile Or Green Spot In A Desert Or Wasteland Made By The Presence Of Water . Upon finding The Dead Sea Scroll Between The
Click here: AOL Web Search: Results for "Dead Sea Scroll By Hershel Shanks"

YearsOf 1951 A.D. And 1956 A.D. Archeologists Excavated These Ruins Which Proved To Be Headquarters Of A Close Knit Family Of Community . In the Ruins they found agricultural implements such as pruning hooks . Large quantities of date seeds and charred remains of Palm Tree Trunks used as ceiling beams . The agriculture stations found indicate that The Brotherhood Of The Essene had a large amount of land under cultivation and it was irrigated by water from numerous springs in the area . Yashua ( Jesus Of 2,000 Years Ago ) . ,

As an Essene had the position of A Priest , And Priests , were not allowed to Mary However , Jesus became very fond of Mary of Magdalene . Who he had exorcied of Seven Demons ( Mark 16 ; 9 ) . And married her in the years 28 A.D. In Cana in Galilee , Where the reception took place in Bethany at Yashua
( Jesus own house ) . At age 29 , He and his wife left to go study at the mystical schools in Jordan amongst The Essenes and to visit his cousin . Yuhanna Al Mikwah ( John The Baptist ) , Son Of Zacharia and Elizabeth . However , Because The Essenes Considered Him Too Opinonated , He Was Temporarily Outcasted From The Order .

The reason why this was not recorded was because The Essenes vowed Celibacy ; And it would have been a travety to hear that one of their own had defected and married other than with the approval of The Rabb .
The head of the order for the sole purpose of Reproduction . Yashua and Mary of Magdalene had a son , Who they name Simon , and became known as Bar Jesus ( Acts 13 ; 6 ) .

A great pain to Yashua / Jesus of 2,000 Years Ago . For he did not respect his father wish . Members of The Essene Brotherhooh rescued Yuhanna Al Mikwah and his mother Elizabeth and brought them to Zoan when Herod The Great Slew Zacharia because he refused to reveal the whereabout of his son . Yuhanna Al Mikwah / John The Baptist spent half of his life with The Essenes and the other half by himself in the Wildernes ( Acts 13 ; 6 ) .
Acts 13 ; 6 And I Quote ; < Deh > and when they had < Dee - er - khom - ahee
Gone through the < Nay- sos > Islands < Akh'-ree > until , to < Paf-os > Boiling ; hot a town of cyprus they < Hyoo-ris-ko > found a < Tis > certain < Mag-os > Wise man A < Psyoo - dop- rof - ay - tace > A false newbearer A < Ee - oo - dah - yos > Of the tribe of judah < Hos > whose < On - om - ah > Name Is
< Bar - ee - ay - sooce > Son of Jesus .
'' Barnabas , Symeon , Manaen , Herod , Tetrarch , And Saul Went All The Way To The Island Of Paphos Where They Met A Certain Learn Man Named Son Of Jesus , One Of The Tribe Of Judah Who Claimed To Be A Newbearer

( Simon Bar Jesus Son Of Yashua And Mary Magdalene / Mary Magdalene Wife Of Yashua / Jesus / Yuhanna Al Mikwah / John The Baptist / Zacharia Father Of Yuhanna / John The Baptist / Elizabeth , Mother Of Yuhanna / John The Baptist ) ..
Jesus Also had association with The Knights Templar . Andtheir order considered him a Brother Knight In Which they help a Great Secret as found in A Book Called ''' Genesis , The First Book Of Revelations '' . By David Wood . Page 113 < If Jesus survived , if Magdalene was The Wife .

If he had children children and if they fled from Jerusalem to The Languedoc , Then many apparently unrelated pieces of the puzzlecome together , I feel certain we will find the evidence we need in the Secret Locations Of The Geometric Temple At Rennes - Le - Chateam . I am also convinced that this was known to theVatican .

That They Censored The Gospels . Almost Out Of Recognition , Is generally agreed . But there is every possiblity that they shut the gate only . to find that the horse had already Gone . There ismuch to suggest that this was fully Realized Until Evidence Came To Light That TheNights Templar Help A Great Secret . The Nights Templar Considered Jesus To Be A Brother Night . ''
The Knights Templar ,

who were known as A Religious Military Order Of Knighthood , Devoted themselves to the protection of Pilgrims who migrated to The Holy Land . The Heart of The Old Knights Templar was in a Country Town called Rennes - Le - Chatean In France Legends as deep within this French Community . One of which is Surrounding The Ark Of The Covenant .

The Ark Was Believed To Have Been Removed By The Templars At The Time Of The Crusades . However . There Was No Ark Found And The Knights Templar Arrived In Jerusalem And Calimed Their Mission In The Holy Land Was In Search Of The Ark Of The Covenant .

It's Not The Things One Knows That Get One In Trouble , It The Things One Know That Just Isn't So That Gets Him / Her In Trouble / And Say The Facts Beyond Any Doubt Have Come And False Ways Were To Vanish :donttell:

Sekhemu

05-26-2005, 03:30 PM

When I study other religions and their books and or writings I have found them to be flawed . Christianity is the only faith and the bible the only book of truth because the bible accurately depicts the truth about God and human nature while everything else is clearly(atleast to christians) full of flaws and immorality.

What books are you refering too, surely you have never read anything in the way of the Medu NTR, and if you have, please point out all if it's flaws.

You still have not proven the bible is the word of God, all you've done is assert your subjective interpretation of what you call the truth, this is not proof. I asked you to show proof using reference outside the bible, but you still fail to do so. WHy is that?

oceolo

05-26-2005, 07:45 PM

[QUOTE=SAMURAI36]The problem with this, is that Christianity falls under many of the "failings" (they are only such, because you don't understand them, like alot of other people around here):

Sam:
I posed the question of what "RAT" is being worshipped in Hinduism, and no one has yet to answer. For that matter, no animal is worshipped in any aspect within Hinduism.

Oceolo:
Anyone who knows anything about hinduism knows that they worship cows thats why they dont eat beef.
The rat goddess Karni Mata is worhipped by some hindus .There is a temple in India dedicated to her where rats are housed and treated as royalty.
Here is a websites that shows and tells more about hindu rat worship
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/06/0628_040628_tvrats.html

Sam:
However, the concept of Human sacrifice is not only present within Christianity, it is its very foundation.

Thus, by your "logic", Christianity is guilty of this failing.

Oceolo:
There is no human sacrifice in christianity only Christ's self sacrifice on the cross which is a totally different thing.

Sam:
I could ask you the very same thing, since according to Christianity YOU worship JESUS, who of his own admission had "human flaws" ("flesh is weak"; "I can of my own self do nothing", etc.).

Thus, I pose your own question to you: How can you worship gods like that?

Oceolo:
Christ was human and was subject to human weaknesses but he never succumbed to those weaknesses making him the only sinless person to ever walk the earth .

Sam:
As God, I do not "worship" my-Self (the concept of worship is grossly misinterpreted), any more than Jesus worshipped him-Self.

Besides, once again, we see the Christian duplicity, in that JESUS sited the principle of God-In-Self in JOHN Chapter 10. He even cited PSALMS as proof of such.

Oceolo:
When Jesus was talking about people being "gods " he did not mean we are divine.the word god was a term of respect it didnt mean that people were their own god.

oceolo

05-26-2005, 08:10 PM

What books are you refering too, surely you have never read anything in the way of the Medu NTR, and if you have, please point out all if it's flaws.

You still have not proven the bible is the word of God, all you've done is assert your subjective interpretation of what you call the truth, this is not proof. I asked you to show proof using reference outside the bible, but you still fail to do so. WHy is that?

Medu Ntr Is all about egyptian mythology which is pagan so Medu Ntr is false also because egyptians worshipped the sun and animals how can this be right?

The bible has never been proven wrong but only proven right.

AUM

05-26-2005, 08:17 PM

The Rat is the God Ganesha's vehicle as the story goes in Hinduism. Ganesha is the first God to be invoked in ceremony. Ganesha is a big dude with an elephants head. Why is the rat used as his vehicle? WELL THERE ARE SEVERAL ANSWERS TO THIS QUESTION.

1. The Rat SYMBOLICALLY....I'll say that again, SYMBOLICALLY represents the mind and its ability to race, wonder, worry, analyze, daydream, etc. which sometimes are negative characteristics. You know how you try to concentrate in meditation but sometimes your mind won't rest? Big Ganesha Sits on the rat, (big ole elephant sitting on a rat) which reduces the rat's (mind's) ability to wander or stray and goes only where Ganesha (symbolically Your higher self) tells it to go.

2. http://mailerindia.com/god/hindu/index.php?ganesha
The vehicle of Ganesha is a rat or mouse.
As rats generally succeed in gnawing their way through
every obstruction, the rat symbolizes this god's nature
of destorying every obstacle.

As the Lord of Obstacles and the personification of
those qualities which surmount all difficulties,
Ganesha is often honored at the outset of any
project or venture and consequently has become
particularly popular with businessmen and students.
He is the typical lord of success in life and its
accompaniments of good living, prosperity and peace.
In all ceremonies, Ganesha is first invoked. He is revered
by all Hindus and Budhists, whether followers of Shiva,
Vishnu or Budha.

Ganesha represents the unity of the Small
Being, the rat with the Great Being, the elephant.
It is the blending of the microcosm with macrocosm,
of drop of water with the ocean and of individual soul
with divinity

Sekhemu

05-26-2005, 10:43 PM

Medu Ntr Is all about egyptian mythology which is pagan so Medu Ntr is false also because egyptians worshipped the sun and animals how can this be right?

The bible has never been proven wrong but only proven right.

You have shown you don't know what you're talking about. Samurai gave a detailed analysis of what the Medu Ntr entails, and you obviously know little or nothing at all about it. I want you to prove that the Medu Ntr is mythology. Do you even know how to read it?

The stories in the bible are mythology and allegory. You have failed to show that even one of your prophets existed, you haven't produced one physical shred of evidence that your Jesus even lived, other than what you have been taught by the white man.

Why is it you don't show evidence from outside the bible? because you know you can't. You don't know the first thing about scholarship, not even on a cursory level.

oceolo

05-26-2005, 11:24 PM

You have shown you don't know what you're talking about. Samurai gave a detailed analysis of what the Medu Ntr entails, and you obviously know little or nothing at all about it. I want you to prove that the Medu Ntr is mythology. Do you even know how to read it?

The stories in the bible are mythology and allegory. You have failed to show that even one of your prophets existed, you haven't produced one physical shred of evidence that your Jesus even lived, other than what you have been taught by the white man.

Why is it you don't show evidence from outside the bible? because you know you can't. You don't know the first thing about scholarship, not even on a cursory level.

Can you prove your mythical egyptian gods exist? Physical evidence is not a reasonable argument because you are talking about things that happened 2000 years ago. You have to pray to God and ask for his wisdom then you will learn the truth until then you will continue to live your life in a pagan way.

Nisa

05-26-2005, 11:44 PM

Nisa

05-26-2005, 11:49 PM

Oceleo ..kemetian theology is the origin of Christianity.and by the way..how much of a devouted christian are you? Preaching..no back up..i just wonder.

Nisa

05-27-2005, 12:24 AM

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33751&highlight=catholicism
take a look at this oceleo..its good for you.

j'hiah

05-27-2005, 12:30 AM

lol...

oceolo, you :bus: gottem all on the bus this time man

but you don't have to argue the proof that lies within your soul. it's not up for
a long debate.

peace to you and all my people here.

oceolo

05-27-2005, 12:57 AM

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33751&highlight=catholicism
take a look at this oceleo..its good for you.

Myths from Egypt have nothing to do with Christ. Egyptian myths are filled with Gods with human character flaws and weaknesses why would you worship gods like that? Plus these myths teach you to worship animals and the sun .
The truth is self evident for those who can see but people who dont have Christ in their lives are blind so they cant see the truth for what it is so they are easily misled by the devil when the devil fills their heads with lies that lead them away from God .Pray to God and repent then you will be saved

Nisa

05-27-2005, 01:04 AM

Myths from Egypt have nothing to do with Christ. Egyptian myths are filled with Gods with human character flaws and weaknesses why would you worship gods like that? Plus these myths teach you to worship animals and the sun .
The truth is self evident for those who can see but people who dont have Christ in their lives are blind so they cant see the truth for what it is so they are easily misled by the devil when the devil fills their heads with lies that lead them away from God .Pray to God and repent then you will be saved

i pray,but I am not a christian.

oceolo

05-27-2005, 01:09 AM

i pray,but I am not a christian.

I am not asking you to do anything but pray to the one true God (not the egyptian gods ) and he will show you the way in which to go.

info-moetry

05-27-2005, 01:10 AM

oceolo

05-27-2005, 01:15 AM

So I guess you've never heard of Horus????????

whose EVERY attribute you biblical JESUS has STOLEN by way of the false writers and tricknologists trying to steal (what do I mean TRYING) YOUR MIND>......

If their are some simularities between Christ and the mythical Horus why do you think automatically that one had to come from the other ? And why would the early christian take an egyptian myth and form a new religion based on it that wouldnt make very much sense plus most people from that time outside of egypt didnt have much knowledge of egypt and its culture these were simple people with little education they didnt have the internet for reference back then so they wouldnt have known about Horus.

Nisa

05-27-2005, 01:27 AM

I am not asking you to do anything but pray to the one true God (not the egyptian gods ) and he will show you the way in which to go.
There is nothing wrong with the egyptians god, and if you go deeper, you will find that, they believed in one GOD,a common mistake is that people believe that kemetians(egyptians) believed in more than one God..when the gods/goddesses were attributes of the one GOD....The 10 commandments came from the 42 laws of maat...http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/x/wxk116/maat/..i have some other info. i must find my link to it,and show you. the white man wants you to believe that khemetian theology is paganism and its not.

oceolo

05-27-2005, 01:40 AM

There is nothing wrong with the egyptians god, and if you go deeper, you will find that, they believed in one GOD,a common mistake is that people believe that kemetians(egyptians) believed in more than one God..when the gods/goddesses were attributes of the one GOD....The 10 commandments came from the 42 laws of maat...http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/x/wxk116/maat/..i have some other info. i must find my link to it,and show you. the white man wants you to believe that khemetian theology is paganism and its not.

Why do you keep talking about the white man? I dont believe anything because of the white man or any other man for that matter. I know the truth because God opened my eyes and revealed the truth to me and he can do the same for you if you reject the lies you have been taught and open your heart to the one true God.

Nisa

05-27-2005, 01:43 AM

Why do you keep talking about the white man? I dont believe anything because of the white man or any other man for that matter. I know the truth because God opened my eyes and revealed the truth to me and he can do the same for you if you reject the lies you have been taught and open your heart to the one true God.

who is the one true God..and i hope you looked at that link.

oceolo

05-27-2005, 01:50 AM

who is the one true God..and i hope you looked at that link.

The one true God is the God of the bible who humbled Pharaoh when he refused to let his people go .

Sekhemu

05-27-2005, 07:23 AM

Can you prove your mythical egyptian gods exist? Physical evidence is not a reasonable argument because you are talking about things that happened 2000 years ago. You have to pray to God and ask for his wisdom then you will learn the truth until then you will continue to live your life in a pagan way.

The Tomb of Asar is found in Khemet, and the list of kings are secreted on temple walls, in chronoligical order. Perhaps you need to pay a visit to Abu Simbel.

You have to be kidding if you think physical evidence is not a reasonable argument because it happened 2000 years ago. You told Samurai this same garbage, and to you I say there are Tombs, relics, and a host of other forms of evidence of rulers, philosophers the world over... that are at least 3000 years old, for example in China and India. However, when it comes to your christian characters, you can't produce one single piece of evidence. Stop playing games man, you know you're out of your league here.

Sekhemu

05-27-2005, 07:30 AM

Aqil

05-27-2005, 08:35 AM

Returning to the topic of my thread:

The Muslim Jesus, by Professor Tarif Khalidi of Cambridge University (UK) , has brought together - from a vast range of sources - most of the stories, sayings and traditions of Jesus that are to be found in Muslim piety from the earliest times.

The Muslim Jesus is an ascetic - a man of voluntary poverty, humility and long-suffering. He literally turns the other cheek, allowing his face to be slapped twice in order to protect two of his disciples. He teaches the return of good for evil: "Jesus used to say, 'Charity does not mean doing good to him who does good to you...Charity means that you should do good to him who does you harm.' "

He loves the poor and embraces poverty: "The day Jesus was raised to heaven, he left behind nothing but a woolen garment, a slingshot and two sandals." He preaches against attachment to worldly things: "Jesus said, 'He who seeks worldly things is like the man who drinks sea water: the more he drinks, the more thirsty he becomes, until it kills him.'"

Many of the sayings of the Muslim Jesus are clearly derived from Biblical sources - "Place your treasures in heaven, for the heart of man is where his treasure is"; "Look at the birds coming and going! They neither reap nor plough, and God provides for them." Sometimes there is a sort of gloss on words of Jesus from the Gospel: "Oh disciples, do not cast pearls before swine, for the swine can do nothing with them...wisdom is more precious than pearls and whomever rejects wisdom is worse than a swine."

He is certainly a wonder-worker. He often raises the dead, and gives his disciples power to do the same. More than once he comes across a skull and restores it to life; on one occasion granting salvation to a person who had been damned. The skulls, like everyone else in these stories, address Jesus as "Spirit of God." Once he is even addressed as "Word of God."

The American University at Beirut (AUB) recently announced the appointment of Prof. Khalidi to the Sheikh Zayed Chair in Islamic and Arabic Studies at AUB. An AUB student and member of Hezbollah in Beirut said this: "The greatness of Islam is that we combine Judaism and Christianity. Jesus freed enslaved hearts; he was able to release human feeling; to reveal a kingdom of peace. Jesus's realm was the realm of the soul. Jesus is soul; Moses is mind - the mind of the legislator. In Islam, we interweave both." This is certainly the Jesus of these stories - the Jesus of the mystical Sufi tradition. The great Muslim philosopher Al-Ghazali actually called Jesus, "The Prophet of the Heart."

The Muslim Jesus is not divine, but a humble servant of God. He was not crucified - Islam insists that the story of the killing of Jesus is false. He is, as it were, Jesus as he might have been without Paul of Tarsus or St. Augustine, or the Council of Nice. He is not the cold figure of English unitarianism, and he is less grand than the exalted human of the Aryans. As you read these stories, what comes across most powerfully is that the Muslim Jesus is intensely loved. There is an element of St. Francis of Assisi in them.

It is good to be reminded, especially now, of the intimate connections there have been between Islam and Christianity, and how close in spirit Muslim and Christian piety can come to each other. Curiously enough, the Muslim Jesus, shorn of all claims of divinity, could be more easily held onto by agnostics than the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. One other thing: Since Muslims deny the crucifixion, their emphasis has been on the wonders surrounding "the birth of Jesus, Son of Mary," born as his mother sat under a palm tree, and miraculously speaking from within the womb.

Jesus really is shared by both faiths...

Nisa

05-27-2005, 10:39 AM

Aqil

05-27-2005, 10:45 AM

You're quite welcome, Nisa...and thank you.

Nisa

05-27-2005, 10:46 AM

Will you marry me Aqil?

Aqil

05-27-2005, 11:16 AM

Check out your horoscope...:star:

info-moetry

05-27-2005, 12:28 PM

If their are some simularities between Christ and the mythical Horus why do you think automatically that one had to come from the other ? And why would the early christian take an egyptian myth and form a new religion based on it that wouldnt make very much sense plus most people from that time outside of egypt didnt have much knowledge of egypt and its culture these were simple people with little education they didnt have the internet for reference back then so they wouldnt have known about Horus.

my dear misguided Christian brother/sister (still don't know) Egypt was the center of learning and people killed to get their, but most could only enter with the "correct word"........

So you actually know NOTHING about Egypt and are PURPOSELY misleading others which is very UNCHRISTIAN like & outright WICKED!!

Very simple people with little education????????? SO you don't even know what the ORIGINAL CROSS is.........can you build a pyramid????????? Know anything about electromagnetism??

THe internet for reference?? Is this where you get your Christianity from??

they wouldn't have known about Horus?? - this is the SUN hidden behind your CHRISTIAN SON (jesus).........

I know you think your being a warrior, or a good servant to your GOD but in reality no matter who foolishly supports you GP or whomever you are making yourself look very unintellectual right now and christians should be ashamed that you are even trying to represent them..........

oceolo

05-27-2005, 08:59 PM

my dear misguided Christian brother/sister (still don't know) Egypt was the center of learning and people killed to get their, but most could only enter with the "correct word"........

So you actually know NOTHING about Egypt and are PURPOSELY misleading others which is very UNCHRISTIAN like & outright WICKED!!

Very simple people with little education????????? SO you don't even know what the ORIGINAL CROSS is.........can you build a pyramid????????? Know anything about electromagnetism??

THe internet for reference?? Is this where you get your Christianity from??

they wouldn't have known about Horus?? - this is the SUN hidden behind your CHRISTIAN SON (jesus).........

I know you think your being a warrior, or a good servant to your GOD but in reality no matter who foolishly supports you GP or whomever you are making yourself look very unintellectual right now and christians should be ashamed that you are even trying to represent them..........

I didnt say the egyptians were uneducated I said the early christians were relatively uneducated and wouldnt know much if anything about egypt mythology

info-moetry

05-27-2005, 09:50 PM

I didnt say the egyptians were uneducated I said the early christians were relatively uneducated and wouldnt know much if anything about egypt mythology

Ok, then where did Early Christianity get it's start?? As Jesus never mentioned the word Christianity. He only mentioned that he was sent to the house of Israel!!!!!! A JEW, so where did Christianity get it's start?????

oceolo

05-27-2005, 09:59 PM

Ok, then where did Early Christianity get it's start?? As Jesus never mentioned the word Christianity. He only mentioned that he was sent to the house of Israel!!!!!! A JEW, so where did Christianity get it's start?????

The jews were supposed to be preachers of the word of Jesus ,but the early christians had to break away from the jewish establishment and form christianity because The jewish high priets didnt accept Jesus.

info-moetry

05-27-2005, 10:12 PM

The jews were supposed to be preachers of the word of Jesus ,but the early christians had to break away from the jewish establishment and form christianity because The jewish high priets didnt accept Jesus.

The Early Christians?????? I got that part from your last post!!

what I'm asking is where did the authority come from to become Christians if it was never declared by your Jesus who was a Jew????????

someone had to declare that Christians will now be the sole authority on what is wrong and right in GOD'S sight,..................correct??

oceolo

05-27-2005, 10:16 PM

The Early Christians?????? I got that part from your last post!!

what I'm asking is where did the authority come from to become Christians if it was never declared by your Jesus who was a Jew????????

someone had to declare that Christians will now be the sole authority on what is wrong and right in GOD'S sight,..................correct??

Christianity is based on Christ's teachings so I think its safe to assume that Christ would approve of his own teachings.

IssaEl21

05-27-2005, 10:16 PM

Before we go any Further I would like to make a point about the word '' Jew '' The point is that the first use of the word '' Jew '' was in the year 1514 A.D. So when you read any books that are making reference to past meaning before 1514 A.D. and you see the word '' Jew '' or Jewish '' Know that it is not the word that is really there . When you read in The Holy Bible , which were long before the year 1514 A.D. And You See The Word '' Jew '' or Jewish '' Know that you are being Deceived and that the word '' Jew or Jewish '' Is really not there , So the question is who who put , the word '' Jew '' in The Holy Bible and why ? The First Time You Read The Word '' Jew '' in The Holy Bible Is In Esther 2 ; 5 ;... Now there

was a Jew in Susa the capital whose name was Mor'decai, the son of Ja'ir, son of Shim'e-i, son of Kish, a Benjaminite
They called Mordecai a '' Jew '' and a Benjamite '' But this was a mistranslation because if you LQQK up the Strong's number , O3064 for the word '' Jew '' You Get Yahudi in Modern Hebrew Yeh - Hoo - Dee ' AndIt Means '' Judah '' This is an obvious plot of deception so that you will think that theHoly Bible is Referring To The So - Called Jews You See Today That Have Infiltrated Israel And Are Now Calling Themselves Israeli Of The State Of Israel The Land And Claiming Descendancy From Judah . Ezra 2; 59 ( In Part )

But They Could Not Shew Their Father's House , And Their Seed , Whether They Were Of Israel .''< Proves that people were always trying to claim that they are descendant of Israel . The fact always trying to claim that they are descendant of Israel . The fact is that they are Khayzar's from Russia , calling themselves Ashkenazim one of the two major groups of Jews by geographical origin and the corresponding cultural tradition . The other major group , the Spandyard calling themselves Sephardim from Spain who just wrote themselves into Our Original History . Both after

conversion . they adopted the Hebraic Faith As A Religion Then In Time It Became Their Way Of Life . Ashkenazim And Sephardim Differ In Their Laws , Customs , Liturgy , And Language , Yiddish ( Judeo - German ) is the traditional vernacular of the Ashkenazim The language of the Sephardim Is Latino ( Judeo - Castilian ) . Today About 85% Of So - Called Jews , Are Ashkenazim . They Are Not The Original Judeans . But They Are Our Brothers In Faith , The Original Judean Were And Are Moorish '' Nubian / Black - Skinned '' People Who Are Now Residing In Ethiopia Called Falasha

AndFrom There , Spread All Over Africa From East To West From South To North . And New Finding , Mention The Lemba And Nubians / Blacks / Negroids And Most Lations Throughout The World And Throughout Africa Who Are From The Lost Tribe Of The House Of Israel , Which Will Be Explain Later In This Book . So there are also Pale Jews , Called Called Jebusites or Jacobites, Frauds Who Are Devils In Disguise As In All Other Faith , Religion And Beliefs As Will Be Proven In This E mail , Working For The Serpet's Seed Genesis 3 ; 15 ...... I will put enmity between you and the

woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." < The Tribe Of Naphillims Or Giborim , The Reptillian's Satan's Children , As Stated By Yashua , Isa , Jesus Himself In , Revelation 3 ; 9 '' Behold , I Will Make Them Of The Synagogue Of Satan Which Say They Are Jew , And Are Not But Do Lie '' Behold I Will Make Them To Come And Worship Before Thy Feet And To Know That I Have Loved Thee , ( This Is Also Mentioned In Revelation 2 ; 9 ) . So According To Yashua , Isa , Jesus , Satan The Snake Man Will Have Synagogues . They Just Change That Also To Church , As A Matter Of Fact , The Language That These Pale Jews Are Speaking Today Is No Hebrew But Yiddish , According To The American Heritage Dictionary ,

Yiddish is '' The language historically of Ashkenazic Jews of Central and Eastern Europe , resulting from a Fusion of elements derived principally from medieval German dialects andsecondarily from Hebrew and Aramaic , various Slavic languages and Old French and Old Italian , And The Pale Gentile Churches Admit To Worshipping The Image Of A Pale Jew They Call Christ Jesus So As You Can See , These People Who Saying They Are The Bloodline To The Pure Seed Of The House Of Israel , Are Not

And it was only 488 years ago when the word '' Jew '' Itself Came Into Existence . So again , WhenEver you see the word '' Jew '' Added in literature written before the year 1514 A.D. You know that the word was not really there . But are they Jews ? Yes , they are and many have Mixed Their Seed With Ours . So they are our children and we respect their beliefs. But Not The Ones Who Work For Leviathan The Lizard People , And Have Made Their Lord Baal , Which Jews Today Use For Husband And Revelation 21 ; 2 ...And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband;

Calls Yashua , Isa , Jesus The Groom '' HusbanD = Baal '' According To Online , Bible Strong 's # 01167 Ba'al Bah - al , Baal meaning '' Husband , owener . ; lord ''
Isaiah 54 ; 5 .. For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called. Proverbs 12 ; 7 ...The wicked are overthrown and are no more, but the house of the righteous will stand.
Malachi 3 ; 11 ...I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your soil; and your vine in the field shall not fail to bear, says the LORD of hosts
Isaiah 54 ; 5 , Malachi 3 ; 11 . Proverbs12 ; 4 .... Makes it clean by using '' Married '' For Baal as us Nubians / Blacks / Negroids , Marrying Their God ( El

So They Trick You Genesis 14 ; 13 ...Then one who had escaped came, and told Abram the Hebrew, who was living by the oaks of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol and of Aner; these were allies of Abram.
And the word '' Comferatate '' is Strong's # 1167 ba'al bah . Allies '' Baal '' Amorites , So you see how they trick you who worshiped Baal . It means Allies with Canaanires , meaning you're married to Baal , not the Lamb but the Ram . So when they call you the Bride that makes their Jesus your Husband ''' Baal '' You have this Mixed Seed Of People Who Were From Shelomoh , Sulaiman , Solomon's sin of mixing his seed with Cainite Reptillians Of Nod Or Canaanite ,

Canine Beast . All Of This Race Mixing Almost Destroyed The Pure Or Holy Seed Of Judah , The Original Seed Jeremiah 14 ; 2 ;... "Judah mourns and her gates languish; her people lament on the ground, and the cry of Jerusalem goes up. ;... Wrongly Called Negroes / Blacks Coloreds , Should Be Called Maur , Muur , or Moor , Thisis where Saul . Shaool , Paul , Father who mixed his seed resided before becoming a resident of the city of Tarsus , Which lies in the vicinity of Rome .. Acts 22 ; 3 ... I am a Jew, born at Tarsus in Cili'cia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gama'li-el, educated according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as you all are this day. ;...Nechemiah 13 ; 3 ;...When the people heard the law, they separated from Israel all those of foreign descent. ;...He

Was Mixed . Saul , Shaool . Paul's, Father , From The Benjaminite Tribe , Became A Pharisee According To Acts 23;6 ..But when Paul perceived that one part were Sad'ducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, "Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; with respect to the hope and the resurrection of the dead I am on trial." ;....Pharisee were one of the many religious group of that time created in Babylon to rule thetribe in bondage under Nebuchandnezzar .

It's Not The Things One Knows That Get One In Trouble , It The Things One Know That Just Isn't So That Gets Him / Her In Trouble / And Say The Facts Beyond Any Doubt Have Come And False Ways Were To Vanish :?:

info-moetry

05-27-2005, 10:30 PM

Christianity is based on Christ's teachings so I think its safe to assume that Christ would approve of his own teachings.

I'm asking you too show it to me in the bible.........GOD'S WORD!!!!

It's never safe to assume anything brother!!!!!!!

If I went by this logic you and others would most likely laugh at my words............

Show and prove..........

oceolo

05-27-2005, 10:36 PM

I'm asking you too show it to me in the bible.........GOD'S WORD!!!!

It's never safe to assume anything brother!!!!!!!

If I went by this logic you and others would most likely laugh at my words............

Show and prove..........
Its unsafe to assume Jesus would approve his own teachings? I think not
I showed you in Acts 9:22 where Paul is preaching the teachings of Jesus.

Aqil

05-28-2005, 09:33 AM

I showed you in Acts 9:22 where Paul is preaching the teachings of Jesus.Here is Acts 9:22-25, under the heading, SAUL Preaches in Damascus:

"Saul preached with such power that he completely confused the Jewish people in Damascus, as he tried to show them that Jesus is the Messiah. Later some of them made plans to kill Saul, but he found out about it. He learned that they were guarding the gates of the city day and night in order to kill him. Then one night his followers let him down over the city wall in a large basket."
(Acts 9:22-25)

info-moetry

05-28-2005, 11:27 AM

Its unsafe to assume Jesus would approve his own teachings? I think not
I showed you in Acts 9:22 where Paul is preaching the teachings of Jesus.

I did not say Jesus would not approve of his own teachings! that makes no sense for you to falesely imply...................

I said show me where Jesus/God in the bible approves Christianity or even says the word Christianity and gives it the authority as a religion......

You keep coming at me with Paul who tells you he is a LIAR in his own books that make up the majority of what is called the "NEW" testament.......who authorized the NEW testament if God is perfect.......wouldn't the OLD Testament be sufficient forever?????????? Unless the GOd of the bible makes mistakes that needed to be corrected in the NEW, or the NEW has no authority and it was MADE UP..................it has to be one or the other brother!!!!!!! which one??

But you know what I asked for!!!!! you're just playing the word game for lack of an answer, because it is not in your book..................

Jesus was an honest man and never tried to lead people astray........don't you want to follow his example?????

oceolo

05-28-2005, 08:38 PM

I did not say Jesus would not approve of his own teachings! that makes no sense for you to falesely imply...................

I said show me where Jesus/God in the bible approves Christianity or even says the word Christianity and gives it the authority as a religion......

You keep coming at me with Paul who tells you he is a LIAR in his own books that make up the majority of what is called the "NEW" testament.......who authorized the NEW testament if God is perfect.......wouldn't the OLD Testament be sufficient forever?????????? Unless the GOd of the bible makes mistakes that needed to be corrected in the NEW, or the NEW has no authority and it was MADE UP..................it has to be one or the other brother!!!!!!! which one??

But you know what I asked for!!!!! you're just playing the word game for lack of an answer, because it is not in your book..................

Jesus was an honest man and never tried to lead people astray........don't you want to follow his example?????

You are the one who plays with words for example sun=son. Show me an example were Paul teaches something thats against what Jesus taught.

info-moetry

05-29-2005, 12:33 AM

You are the one who plays with words for example sun=son. Show me an example were Paul teaches something thats against what Jesus taught.

I guess I'll never get an answer to where in the bible Christianity is approved!!!!!!

But as always, I will answer your ?...................

1)Jesus said go not to the Gentiles Matt 10:5-6

1a) PAUL said: Romans 11:11 - Salvation is come to the Gentiles......

--------------------------------------------

2) Jesus said: Matt 5:17 - Not to destroy the law of prophets.

2a) Paul said: Roman 2:14 - Have your own Law.

--------------------------------------------

3) Jesus said: John 7:22 - Moses Gave you circumcission

3a) Paul said: I Corinthians 7:19 - Circumcission is nothing............

Should you need more, please deal with these 3 first and for once answer a ? with knowledge other than "Christianity is #1 and that's all to it".............

I have answered you once again, so unless you have some knowledge or evidence to present, this conversation is over as I am the only one providing info. so I'm really not learning anything which is the reason for dialogue/debate.......................

oceolo

05-29-2005, 01:19 AM

I guess I'll never get an answer to where in the bible Christianity is approved!!!!!!

But as always, I will answer your ?...................

1)Jesus said go not to the Gentiles Matt 10:5-6

1a) PAUL said: Romans 11:11 - Salvation is come to the Gentiles......

--------------------------------------------

2) Jesus said: Matt 5:17 - Not to destroy the law of prophets.

2a) Paul said: Roman 2:14 - Have your own Law.

--------------------------------------------

3) Jesus said: John 7:22 - Moses Gave you circumcission

3a) Paul said: I Corinthians 7:19 - Circumcission is nothing............

Should you need more, please deal with these 3 first and for once answer a ? with knowledge other than "Christianity is #1 and that's all to it".............

I have answered you once again, so unless you have some knowledge or evidence to present, this conversation is over as I am the only one providing info. so I'm really not learning anything which is the reason for dialogue/debate.......................

When Jesus said "go not to the gentiles " he meant while he was still with them. He told them this so that the disciples could tell the rest of the jews and then the entire jewish people would go through out the entire world to preach his word but the jewish establishment rejected Jesus. So he never said never to go to the gentiles but only after he left them. Jesus tells his
disciples right before he goes back to heaven " So go and make disciples of all men in the world . Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28 :19

Jesus says he didnt come to destroy the law, he came back to fulfill it meaning the old testament prophesy points to Jesus and what he was going to do in his life and Jesus fufilled that prophesy also Jesus simplified the law for us and Paul and other disciples taught that law.

Physical circumcision was a sign that the Israelites were God's people but now we are circumcised in the spirit not the flesh.

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