A "pal" of mine told me that he doesn't BELIEVE anything...he only KNOWS things.

Where I grew up, I was always under the impression that belief in something was a prerequisit of knowing it.
If you know it....then you automatically believe it by default.


But perhaps I may be wrong about this so I figured I'd gather a few outside opinons on the matter.

What say you...

Can a person possibly know something without believing it?

That's a good question. To me, a belief is based on something I was told without having concrete evidence, like a superstition. Knowledge is based on fact, and can be proven without a shadow of a doubt

If You're Speaking About RELIGION , Belief Is Igniorance If One Have To Believe Then He Or She Doesn't KNOW ONLY BELIEVE / BELIEF / Faith And That Sad . Because If I Can Get You To Believe / Belief / Faith , I Can Get You To Do Most Anything . < And This Is The Real Deal >

If You're Speaking About RELIGION , Belief Is Igniorance If One Have To Believe Then He Or She Doesn't KNOW ONLY BELIEVE / BELIEF / Faith And That Sad . Because If I Can Get You To Believe / Belief / Faith , I Can Get You To Do Most Anything . < And This Is The Real Deal >


Something I can agree with.

Something I can agree with.

I agree as well.

Hotep

Think Deeply about the questions for a moment: What exactly is Belief of any kind? Has your Belief changed lately? What do you really Belive? Who tought you your Belief? How much do you know about your Belief?
Have you always Believe the same things? Do you Really Believe you are Free to Determin your Own Disteny? Do you Believe you Really Know or Don't know why you think you are or are not in control of your Disteny? Do you Believe you should be controled by the Open Enemy to your self and People? Do you Believe you Know your Real Self? Do you Believe the so-called White man cares one iota about you? Do you Believe you can Rise Above the condition of your people? Do you Believe you are a Afrikan or Black? Do you Believe you are one of those who has transinded all racial boundries, and Believe in the Commonality of Man? Do you Believe White Ice is colder than Black Ice? And finaly Do You Believe The Lies you have been telling yourself??

Ase`

No no no....

You guys are missing the point.

I'm not looking for definitions of knowledge and belief...

I'm asking how can you KNOW something without also believe in it?

Does it make sense to say "I know this and that, but I don't believe it"

No no no....

You guys are missing the point.

I'm not looking for definitions of knowledge and belief...

I'm asking how can you KNOW something without also believe in it?

Does it make sense to say "I know this and that, but I don't believe it"

One cannot say that they do one thing and/or another, without having a proper definition of it.

First we must establish the definitions:

KNOW (http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/know.html)

BELIEVE (http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/Believe.html)

KNOWLEDGE (http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/knowledge.html)

BELIEF (http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/Belief.html)

BELIEF is based on an emotional attachment.

I don't have to "BELIEVE" that the sky is blue and the grass is green.....Thus, I don't have to be emotionally attached to the fact that they are so; it doesn't make it any more of a reality, for me, or for the rest of the Universe.

They just are, whether I believe that the are or not.

They also just are, whether I KNOW they are or not.

That's the beauty behind knowledge; being the foundation for all things in exsistence, it's exsistence is not contingent upon my being in possession of it.

This mindset of looking for BELIEF is one of the obstacles that keep our people intellectually crippled.

This is the definition you provided for BELIEVE:

be·lieve

verb

1. transitive verb accept as true: to accept that something is true or real
I don’t know which story to believe.

2. transitive verb accept as truthful: to accept that somebody is telling the truth
Nobody will believe you!

3. transitive verb credit with something: to accept that somebody or something has a particular quality or ability
No one believed her capable of such a malicious remark.

4. intransitive verb think that something exists: to be of the opinion that something exists or is a reality, especially when there is no absolute proof of its existence or reality
believe in reincarnation

5. intransitive verb trust: to be confident that somebody or something is good, or will be effective
We all believe in you.

6. intransitive verb think something is good: to be of the opinion that something is right or beneficial, and, usually, to act in accordance with that belief
believe strongly in freedom of expression

7. intransitive verb religion have religious faith: to have a religious belief

______________________________________________





The first few definitions say belief is to accept something as true.

Now if you know something, doesn't that automatically mean you accept it as true and believe it?


Ofcourse you can't always KNOW what you believe...but you still have to believe what you know.

Can a person possibly know something without believing it?

Yes, a person can know something without believing it.

example: Many people know there are serial killers running about, but they don't believe that they will ever be a victim.

Purple Moons

Respect.

Yes, a person can know something without believing it.

example: Many people know there are serial killers running about, but they don't believe that they will ever be a victim.

That's not a good example because the knowledge and beliefs in this statement are about 2 separate issues.

You're talking about KNOWING that serial killers are around...

Then you jump to BELIEVING what they will or won't do to you.

So you're going from their existance to their activity.

See what I'm saying?

Yes, a person can know something without believing it.

example: Many people know there are serial killers running about, but they don't believe that they will ever be a victim.

Excellent example. There are many others as well.

This is the definition you provided for BELIEVE:

be·lieve

verb

1. transitive verb accept as true: to accept that something is true or real
I don’t know which story to believe.

2. transitive verb accept as truthful: to accept that somebody is telling the truth
Nobody will believe you!

3. transitive verb credit with something: to accept that somebody or something has a particular quality or ability
No one believed her capable of such a malicious remark.

4. intransitive verb think that something exists: to be of the opinion that something exists or is a reality, especially when there is no absolute proof of its existence or reality
believe in reincarnation

5. intransitive verb trust: to be confident that somebody or something is good, or will be effective
We all believe in you.

6. intransitive verb think something is good: to be of the opinion that something is right or beneficial, and, usually, to act in accordance with that belief
believe strongly in freedom of expression

7. intransitive verb religion have religious faith: to have a religious belief

______________________________________________





The first few definitions say belief is to accept something as true.

Now if you know something, doesn't that automatically mean you accept it as true and believe it?


Ofcourse you can't always KNOW what you believe...but you still have to believe what you know.

That's not the only definition that was presented--it's just the only one that you chose to hone in on.

The first few definitions say belief is to accept something as true.

The clause there, is that just because it is accepted as truth, doesn't mean that it is.

Is the sky green with yellow polka-dots?

Now if you know something, doesn't that automatically mean you accept it as true and believe it?

It's interesting how you continually focus on BELIEF and BELIEVING by sheer default (perpetually asking questions about what people BELIEVE, when you've been admonished against doing so, etc)........Yet you apparently didn't even bother to examine all (if any) of the definitions regarding KNOWLEDGE and KNOWING.

To know something is, as per the defintion, to recognize or be aware of information.

It doesn't necessarily mean that I accept it, or that I recognize it as a truth.

I KNOW the Bible very well, but that doesn't mean that I BELIEVE a single iota of it.

I KNOW what Bush said the other night during his Presidential Address, but I don't BELIEVE him any further than I can throw him.

Information is passed all throughout this Universe every single second. But info is not necessarily correct, simply be virture of being info.

All the mind does is THINK (process and allocate information). Notions, assertions, opinions, ideals and beliefs come from a totally different place.

The key is to approach knowledge from an unbiased, impersonal standpoint.

PEACE

yes, I see what your saying. I was thinking the same thing as I posted the submit button.

Is it possible to know and not believe? Hmmm I can't think of anyway this is possible. :drink: But that don't mean it aint possible. I got to think some more on that one.

Very interesting question Brother!

PURPLE, read my response above.

PEACE

Sam


To know something is, as per the defintion, to recognize or be aware of information.

It doesn't necessarily mean that I accept it, or that I recognize it as a truth.

I KNOW the Bible very well, but that doesn't mean that I BELIEVE a single iota of it.

I KNOW what Bush said the other night during his Presidential Address, but I don't BELIEVE him any further than I can throw him.

This actually makes sense.

I agree with it.

...on second thought.



To know something is, as per the defintion, to recognize or be aware of information.

It doesn't necessarily mean that I accept it, or that I recognize it as a truth.

I KNOW the Bible very well, but that doesn't mean that I BELIEVE a single iota of it.

I KNOW what Bush said the other night during his Presidential Address, but I don't BELIEVE him any further than I can throw him.

Something ain't right about this.

It's still mixing apples and oranges, only in a more sophisticated and deceptive way.


When you say you KNOW the bible...

You're not saying you know the events described...your simply saying you know what it says and how it's formated.

On that same note, you'd also have to believe that it says what it says ...
Not that you believe the events actually took place; but you believe the words and stories are in there.

Believing that it's IN the bible isn't the same as believing IN the bible.





When you say you KNOW what Bush said the other night...

You don't mean you KNOW that what he said was true, you just KNOW he said it.

So again, if you know he said it you'd also have to BELIEVE he said it.


Believing that Bush said something isn't the same as believing IN Bush.



*So again, in order to know a particular thing...you still have to believe THAT PARTICULAR THING also.

I was wondering when you were going to recant your perspective, which is why I chose not to respond earlier.

When you say you KNOW the bible...

You're not saying you know the events described...your simply saying you know what it says and how it's formated.

Please go back and (re)read the definitions for KNOWLEDGE and KNOWING, which I don't think you did to begin with.

Despite your attempts to decontextify my perspective, my statements of differentiation still stand; I know the INFORMATION in the Bible, but I do not accept it.

On that same note, you'd also have to believe that it says what it says ...
Not that you believe the events actually took place; but you believe the words and stories are in there.

I don't BELIEVE anything, because I don't have to. The information is in there, whether I've even read it or not.

Information exsists incontingently; KNOWLEDGE is simply the recognition and awareness of that info.

Believing that it's IN the bible isn't the same as believing IN the bible.

You're correct; but since that was never my assertion to begin with, as I don't do either, then this matters little.

You're continuing to impose your emotional attachments to my scope of KNOWLEDGE.

When you say you KNOW what Bush said the other night...

You don't mean you KNOW that what he said was true, you just KNOW he said it.

Thank you for repeating what I said, as if I had somehow forgotten. :rolleyes:

So again, if you know he said it you'd also have to BELIEVE he said it.

Wrong again.

He said it, whether I heard him say it or not. I don't have to BELIEVE anything.

If I "BELIEVED" that he DIDN'T say it, does that somehow change the FACT that he did say it?

Please show and prove how.

Believing that Bush said something isn't the same as believing IN Bush.

Again, you're right, but I never made the claim of either, so neither sentiment applies to me.

*So again, in order to know a particular thing...you still have to believe THAT PARTICULAR THING also.

What a terrible train of intellectual development you have, brother. :(

No wonder you refuse to actually research and study anything.

Unlike you, I strive to approach most things from a scientific perspective and/or methodology.

The word SCIENCE itself means "to know".

There is no "BELIEF" in science.

You would do yourself a great favor by adopting this attitude as well.

In the meantime, please stop superimposing your inferior emotional BELIEFS on others.

They mean nothing anyone other than YOU.

PEACE

Despite your attempts to decontextify my perspective, my statements of differentiation still stand

"decontextify"

Is that another one of your Bushisms?

Kind of like "liberatizing" Iraq or "aero-condinionalizationing" a hot room.

Man, you're a walking Thesaurous ain't ya...

Samurai #36

Please go back and (re)read the definitions for KNOWLEDGE and KNOWING, which I don't think you did to begin with.

Despite your attempts to decontextify my perspective, my statements of differentiation still stand; I know the INFORMATION in the Bible, but I do not accept it.
You may know things, but you have a terrible time comprehending what you know.

So let's try it this way...

Ofcourse you may KNOW the information in the bible.

But you also BELIEVE the same information YOU KNOW whether or not you believe the EVENTS actually took place.



I don't BELIEVE anything, because I don't have to. The information is in there, whether I've even read it or not.

Information exsists incontingently; KNOWLEDGE is simply the recognition and awareness of that info.

See, that's where you jack yourself up right there saying you don't BELIEVE anything.


Some things you know, others you only believe.

You ain't never been to Korea, you only BELIEVE they speak Korean overthere.

You weren't around in ancient Kemet, you only BELIEVE that they practiced spirituality.




Wrong again.

He said it, whether I heard him say it or not. I don't have to BELIEVE anything.

If I "BELIEVED" that he DIDN'T say it, does that somehow change the FACT that he did say it?
No, but since you HEARD it and KNOW it, as long as you REMEMBER it, you have to BELIEVE it.

Samurai #36

First off, my screen name isn't "SAMURAI #36". Please address me correctly, or don't address me.

You don't see me calling you RALFIE-ILL, or some other such non-sense.

You may know things, but you have a terrible time comprehending what you know.

So let's try it this way...

Ofcourse you may KNOW the information in the bible.

But you also BELIEVE the same information YOU KNOW whether or not you believe the EVENTS actually took place.

See, that's where you jack yourself up right there saying you don't BELIEVE anything.

Once again, I say that I don't BELIEVE anything. And I'm not going to sit here and convince you of what I do or don't believe.

But please stop trying to convince ME of what I believe as well. And stop trying to measure me and others by your standards.

Either take what I say abotu ME, or leave it.


Some things you know, others you only believe.

You ain't never been to Korea, you only BELIEVE they speak Korean overthere.

When or where have I ever said that I believe any such thing? I'm not like you; until I have a "perponderance of evidence" (your statement, when you were feigning scientific) about any one thing, I don't portend to speak on it.

In the meantime, there is evidence that people SOMEWHERE on this earth speak KOREAN, because I have heard people speak it.

I KNOW it did not originate here in the States, and it must have originated somerwhere.

This is where the study of linguistics comes in. You see, SCIENCE (the act of KNOWING) justifies its own exsistence, while BELIEF does not.

You weren't around in ancient Kemet, you only BELIEVE that they practiced spirituality.

You must be speaking about your BIBLE, where there is no other evidence, aside what is in a poorly translated book that everyone has had their hands in/on.

The beauty about a culture like KEMET, is that they left their teachings carved and etched in stone, for all the world, thousands of years later to see.

That's what EVIDENCE is.

And unlike Korea, I have been to KEMET. You haven't been to either, have you?

[qutoe]No, but since you HEARD it and KNOW it, as long as you REMEMBER it, you have to BELIEVE it.[/QUOTE]

You don't even have a proper understanding of how the human mind works.

Memory recall has absolutely NOTHING to do with BELIEF.

In fact, those 2 phenomenon take place in totally opposite hemispheres of the brain.

I know you don't like to read actually BOOKS, seeing as how you've admitted to not being all that educated, but please take the time to study Neuroscience a bit.

I know you're the King of GOOGLE, so here, let me help you out:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/brain3.htm

PEACE

"decontextify"

Is that another one of your Bushisms?

Kind of like "liberatizing" Iraq or "aero-condinionalizationing" a hot room.

Man, you're a walking Thesaurous ain't ya...

EGOMETER: 4


(scaled 1-5)

No no no....

You guys are missing the point.

I'm not looking for definitions of knowledge and belief...

I'm asking how can you KNOW something without also believe in it?

Does it make sense to say "I know this and that, but I don't believe it"

You can not explain things to people with closed minds.

Pray-tell, what makes me "close-minded"?

Pray-tell, what makes me "close-minded"?

Because you say if you cant see or hear or touch God he doesnt exist . So I guess that love doesnt exist either because that also isnt tangible.

Sam


First off, my screen name isn't "SAMURAI #36". Please address me correctly, or don't address me.

You don't see me calling you RALFIE-ILL, or some other such non-sense.
You better not.....

I'm liable to post a response that'll bust the Ego-Meter!


Now, I'm not trying to exploit your recent tragedy.
But since you say you don't believe anything and only know things.

When your home caught fire and many of your belongings were destroyed...

Did you KNOW your apartement would still be intact when you got back to it, or did you just BELIEVE that would be?

Because if you KNEW it, then that would mean it would have to be true.

No no no....

You guys are missing the point.

I'm not looking for definitions of knowledge and belief...

I'm asking how can you KNOW something without also believe in it?

Does it make sense to say "I know this and that, but I don't believe it"


Yes you can know something and not believe in it. We can come into the knowledge of something without any pre-existing conditions. In other words before you knew about something in your reality it didn't exist. An example is tying ones shoes laces. Before you were taught to tie you shoe laces shoes being tied up didn't exist for you. Examples of knowing without believing is you President Bush won the election by electoral votes and popular votes you just can't believe it.


Peace......

Sam



You better not.....

I'm liable to post a response that'll bust the Ego-Meter!

Thank you. We can disagree, but let's at least TRY to be civil.



Now, I'm not trying to exploit your recent tragedy.
But since you say you don't believe anything and only know things.

When your home caught fire and many of your belongings were destroyed...

Did you KNOW your apartement would still be intact when you got back to it, or did you just BELIEVE that would be?

Because if you KNEW it, then that would mean it would have to be true.

I did not know, nor believe, because I had no info on the matter either way.

I did not KNOW, until I got there, to see (attain the info) for myself what was taking place.

Now, I can tell you what I'd HOPED on the matter, because hope is not attached to either BELIEF or KNOWLEDGE.

PEACE

A "pal" of mine told me that he doesn't BELIEVE anything...he only KNOWS things.

Where I grew up, I was always under the impression that belief in something was a prerequisit of knowing it.
If you know it....then you automatically believe it by default.


But perhaps I may be wrong about this so I figured I'd gather a few outside opinons on the matter.

What say you...

Can a person possibly know something without believing it?
This is what I am trying to KNOW...