To educate or merely "credentialize" ?




:hearthis: "Hold up Black Man!!!"________________:bus:________


Do we ever stop to think...what did we do BEFORE Oxford, Harvard, Princeton, and these other esteemed Universities?

How did the cities and monuments get built?

How was medicine practiced?

How was civilization and engineering administered?

THAT is why we need more Mary McLeod Bethune's, more Booker T. Washington's, more Ralphe Bunche's, and other people like that to look out for our brothas and sistahs coming up today. If we do not get this, brothas and sistahs will continue to fill up jail cells all their lives.

CD

Cedric

Respect

THAT is why we need more Mary McLeod Bethune's, more Booker T. Washington's, more Ralphe Bunche's, and other people like that to look out for our brothas and sistahs coming up today. If we do not get this, brothas and sistahs will continue to fill up jail cells all their lives.


I agree...

Personally, I'm a student of the Booker T Washington school of thought...as was Marcus Garvey.

I didn't agree with all of his conformist ideas, but I believed that we as black people..if we're gonna live in this country and under this system...should atleast try to master it.


But I believe that instead of just automatically pushing our children of to college and these Universities for them to be indoctrinated and brainwashed into following in behind white culture lock-n-step...

We should concentrated on the ARTS OF CIVILIZATION.

Architecture
Medicine
Plumbing
Electricity
Carpentry
Agriculture


I'm a tradesman myself....

We need to master these skills for ourselves instead of just sitting in a class room all day learning how to tap on a computer and regurgitate the facts back to the professor so that he can give us a passing grade into white society.

You take 25 of the average degreed negroes from America and put them on a desserted island by themselves and they wouldn't last a week.

The men would probably buck with and kill eachother off in the first 2 days trying to impress them women and get some trim.


We aren't being properly educated in these institutions, we are just being "groomed"...trained...indoctrinated...on how to live in this society.

We learn how to talk well and articulate as well as dress, but we aren't learning HOW to run a society, HOW to start and maintain a civilization.

This knowledge is being hid from the vast majority of us.

If the West were to fall to a major catastrophy overnight, China, Korea, and Japan would be alright becasue they are self sufficient and have mastered the ARTS OF CIVILIZATION.

But would we and Africa be?

I totally agree with you Ralfa'il. People put way to much emphasis on degrees and not enough on actual intelligence and ability.

That was well said bruh.

God gave me the ability to make a difference. Among MANY, MANY things, I am going to have my own software, build my own coporation, and program every African language that I can think of on the computer. Not to mention, I will have my own form of technology coming up. I avoid being brainwashed as much as possible.

Oh yeah, and did you knosw that if we (Africans in Amerikkka) had our own country, we would be the 11th richest country in the world? With our own country, How much would speaking well and intelligence matter?

CD

I totally agree with you Ralfa'il. People put way to much emphasis on degrees and not enough on actual intelligence and ability.

Oceolo I agree that more emphasis should be place on intelligence and ability, and the truth is that your personality is what will land you the job. The problem is that a degree is what will land you the interview to sell yourself.

OC

I totally agree with you Ralfa'il. People put way to much emphasis on degrees and not enough on actual intelligence and ability.
That's what I mean by creditializing.

It seems these universities...(Khalid Muhammad called them Jew-niversities) only serve to initiate you into white society and indocrinate you on how to behave.

They don't teach you how to be independant or run a civilized society.

This is why although the black community in America has become more educated, it's become less civilized.



You're right about not enough emphasis being placed on intelligence.

Intelligence isn't how much you know, but how well you can retain and recall information.

There are plenty of intelligent people in our community who never even made it past high school, but can remember thousands of names and numbers and recall them at will.

Bruthaz that can take $20 and flip it into $400 dollars before sunset, illegally ofcourse..but the ends often justfiy the means and the job gets done.


It's such a shame we have allowed society to be constructed as such that the talents of many of our bruthaz are not being put to productive and progressive use.








DC

Oceolo I agree that more emphasis should be place on intelligence and ability, and the truth is that your personality is what will land you the job. The problem is that a degree is what will land you the interview to sell yourself.
This is the sad truth.

A degree is what gets you in the door and your personality is what gets you noticed in todays world.

You aren't even given an opportunity unless someone "likes" you.

Hell, unless your professors like you...you might not even get the degree.

DC


This is the sad truth.

A degree is what gets you in the door and your personality is what gets you noticed in todays world.

You aren't even given an opportunity unless someone "likes" you.

Hell, unless your professors like you...you might not even get the degree.[/QUOTE]


The best advise I can offer is that you remain yourself. Do not put on an act, people can see right through that.

I haven't had to apply for a job or submit myself to an interview in nearly 10 years.

I got myself a trade so I could basically work for and by myself most of the time and not have to rely on someone's emotional state or how much they "like" me to make a living.

But ofcourse all our people can't do that.

Oh Ralfa'il, so now I can understand why you do not advocate college so much, which to me is an impressive way to make a difference upon yourself. However, just to see where your are in understanding others, I will ask you alot, simply because I believe that without education, you can't do ANYTHING.

In the Black Community, How many children are sent from those inner-city areas to good Colleges and Universities? How many of them are accepted into Colleges and Universities?

Don't get me wrong brotha, I think your mindset is remarkable; you bring up many opinions backed up with good detail. I just would like to see if you understand the environments(s) that we live in (youth) in these present times.

Think about that, and I will be back with more.

CD

A College education is nothing but a monetary bond, that may or may not help you make more money...

Ced

In the Black Community, How many children are sent from those inner-city areas to good Colleges and Universities?

Not many.

How many of them are accepted into Colleges and Universities?

Even less.


But the question is, are they not human beings who have the same physical abilites to build buildings, install plumbing and electrical systems, and grow food like the best engineers?


College/University is just and INSTITUTION in which a person can go to learn valuable skills but these skills can also be passed down through families and apprenticeships as many Africans did in the past.


Most of the Arabs and East Asians who own stores in the inner cities don't have a college education either (though they struggle to send their children) yet they own much of the wealth in those communities.

See, that is the probem.

When Asians and Arabs come to this country, they are GIVEN jobs, transportation, and a monetary value high enough to remain financially stable. Not only that, while we are PARTYING, HANGING OUT, PLAYING BASKETBALL, they are in the house STUDYING, READING, AND BEING SCHOOLED by their parents.

We need that kind of method.

CD

Cedric

See, that is the probem.

When Asians and Arabs come to this country, they are GIVEN jobs, transportation, and a monetary value high enough to remain financially stable. Not only that, while we are PARTYING, HANGING OUT, PLAYING BASKETBALL, they are in the house STUDYING, READING, AND BEING SCHOOLED by their parents.

We need that kind of method.


I couldn't agree with you more brutha Ced....


But it's not magic or some unseen supernatural force allowing these people into the country and giving them money, positions, and special priveledges that are denied us.
It's white people in power allowing this.

The same white men who are moving the jobs over seas....

The same white men who are bringing in millions of Mexican slaves....

Are the same white men who are bringing in Asians and Koreans giving them money, finacial aid, and allowing them into the best universities.

They are the unseen hand...the "powers that be".

No body would get into this country or anything from the government unless white men in power wanted them here to serve their purpose.


So what we must first do is get in power ourselves and assert our power to reverse the damage that has been done to our community.


BTW...

This is where many of our brothers and sisters falter on reparations.

Everytime they ask white politicians for reparations and are turned down, they say "America" turned them down.
Our beloved never stop to realized that if they strove to get in office and excercised their political clout...they could give THEMSELVES reparations and more.

See, that is the probem.

When Asians and Arabs come to this country, they are GIVEN jobs, transportation, and a monetary value high enough to remain financially stable. Not only that, while we are PARTYING, HANGING OUT, PLAYING BASKETBALL, they are in the house STUDYING, READING, AND BEING SCHOOLED by their parents.

We need that kind of method.

CD

I think that this might be a bit of an exageration.

DELETED - SEE ME FOR INPUT

KD

PEACE RALF:

I agree with some of your sentiments here, and disagree with some others.

To educate or merely "credentialize" ?




:hearthis: "Hold up Black Man!!!"________________:bus:________


Do we ever stop to think...what did we do BEFORE Oxford, Harvard, Princeton, and these other esteemed Universities?

If by "we", you mean Blacks here in America, then the answer is, that we toiled as cheap labor for the white man.

How did the cities and monuments get built?

On the backs of our ancestors, under the auspices of a bullwhip :whip: and bull horn. :hearthis:

How was medicine practiced?

Given incidents like the Tuskegee Experiment and others, WE practiced little to no medicine whatsoever.

Rather, we were practiced ON. And still are, to some extent.

This is sad, considering that we were the Fathers and Mothers of Medicine.

Where do you think the Caduceus comes from?

How was civilization and engineering administered?

We Blacks in America had no such thing.

Now, if you are referring to our people in ancient times, you need to understand that education and institutions of higher learning were not only present, but very prevelant.

But I believe that instead of just automatically pushing our children of to college and these Universities for them to be indoctrinated and brainwashed into following in behind white culture lock-n-step...

I agree with this.......But what it so be offered as an alternative?

We should concentrated on the ARTS OF CIVILIZATION.

Architecture
Medicine
Plumbing
Electricity
Carpentry
Agriculture

#1) These are not "arts", these are TRADES. You yourself declared yourself as a tradesman (and there is nothing wrong with that).

#2) These are already things that our people focus on. I know numerous Black electricians, plumbers, construction workers, etc........But very few scientists, historians, and the like.

Where, within your narrow criteria for "civilization" do the numerous other aspects of society fit in?

We need to master these skills for ourselves instead of just sitting in a class room all day learning how to tap on a computer and regurgitate the facts back to the professor so that he can give us a passing grade into white society.

Who says we don't have these skills mastered already? We've been performing these trades--both for ourselves, and for white peope--ever since we've been brought here.

Is that all that we should be reduced to?

You mentioned all these "trades" above; all of these trades have lower aspects and professions, as well as their higher-end counterparts:

Architecture
Low end: General contractor
High end: Structural engineer.

Medicine
Low end: CNA, RN, LPN's
High end: Neurologist, Endocrinologist

Electricity
Low End: Electrician
High End: Electrical Engineer

Agriculture
Low End: Farmer
High End: Botanist

Without some sort of formal training, how would the high-end tasks get performed? Are you going trust a Certified Nurse with your brain tumor?

If you stuck to your low end professions, then your "civilization" in reality is not very civilized--even by ancient standards.

In ancient Kemet, for example, there were people to fit both the low and high end of each of these professions.

You take 25 of the average degreed negroes from America and put them on a desserted island by themselves and they wouldn't last a week.

I agree, but that's the same case for ANYBODY who is college educated. Not just Blacks.

We aren't being properly educated in these institutions, we are just being "groomed"...trained...indoctrinated...on how to live in this society.

We learn how to talk well and articulate as well as dress, but we aren't learning HOW to run a society, HOW to start and maintain a civilization.

This knowledge is being hid from the vast majority of us.

I agree, but I'm still asking, what is the viable alternative?


If the West were to fall to a major catastrophy overnight, China, Korea, and Japan would be alright becasue they are self sufficient and have mastered the ARTS OF CIVILIZATION.

But would we and Africa be?

Why would you not include Africa in you above list?

Africa is called a "3rd world nation" for a reason. They have adapted the least to modern times.......And thus, EVERY night (not just OVER night) is a major catastrophe for them.

Would mordern day Japan survive famine?

I haven't had to apply for a job or submit myself to an interview in nearly 10 years.

I got myself a trade so I could basically work for and by myself most of the time and not have to rely on someone's emotional state or how much they "like" me to make a living.

But ofcourse all our people can't do that.

Nor should they necessarily have to.

In the path to civilization, someone is goign to have to do work that they don't wish to do.

Not everyone is cut out to be SHEQHEM (that's PHAROAH, to you).

But the question is, are they not human beings who have the same physical abilites to build buildings, install plumbing and electrical systems, and grow food like the best engineers?


College/University is just and INSTITUTION in which a person can go to learn valuable skills but these skills can also be passed down through families and apprenticeships as many Africans did in the past.

You're still forgetting (or perhaps you weren't knowledgeable about his to begin with), that Africans had the largest intellectual institutions in the world as well.

We created the concept of educational institutions. White people took that from us (just like everything else).

And just like everything else, it's not that it's wrong, it just that it's been perverted by him, and then forced back upon us.

Most of the Arabs and East Asians who own stores in the inner cities don't have a college education either (though they struggle to send their children) yet they own much of the wealth in those communities.

So then, this is your alternative? Exploit another unsuspecting and unwitting group of people, for the sake of the pursuit of "wealth"?

Consider the ethics of their affluence:

Both the Arabs and East Asians that you speak of, though neither group eat pork (or meat proper), yet their stores sell it and other poisons to our people (they never sell those things to white people--go figure) on a daily basis.

This is where many of our brothers and sisters falter on reparations.

Everytime they ask white politicians for reparations and are turned down, they say "America" turned them down.
Our beloved never stop to realized that if they strove to get in office and excercised their political clout...they could give THEMSELVES reparations and more.

You say this, as if the white man is ever going to allow us to get any further in office, than it suits HIS agenda.

We've been striving to "get in office" ever since we were "given" the "right" to vote. How far have we gotten with that useless venture?

Just like every other non-Native American peoples here, we are a foreign element. However, unlike all the other foreign elements, we are the only ones who have not taken advantage of our situations, both locally and globally.

You mentioned Koreans and Mexicans.......Both those groups practice a version of Pan-culturalism to varying degrees, which bolsters their success.

None of them have totally bought into the white man's lie--that is, dividing them from their own people.

Those people see America as an opportunity for exploitation.

We see America as a means of salvation.

Those people can go anywhere in the world and do what they do, to varying degrees of success.......Can you? Could you take your "trades" to South America and be successful?

You mention the Arab's and the Asians "lack of education".......They have a degree over you, in that they are bi-lingual at the least.

ARE YOU?

They take the time to learn the trends of other cultures, for the purpose of exploiting them.

DO YOU?

And they don't just do this here in the States either........Arabs have set up shop in Europe, South America, and especially Africa.

How prepared are you to take such ventures?

It takes far more than just "getting in office"............Arabs and Asians are not "in office", and they are doing far better than we are.

The solution to a problem lies in the very same place that the source of the problem lies.

LOOK TO THE SOURCE. Everything starts from within.

PEACE

DELETED - SEE ME FOR INPUT

KD

Sam and Ced

Respect.

After days of no responses....now you both hit me with 2 full plates....

I'll have to give your posts some respect tomorrow. Out.

DELETED - SEE ME FOR INPUT

KD

Cedric

Maximum

Now i'm not gonna quote Samurai, but what he said was good. However, in addition to adding onto what he said, I will go back over some of what Ralfa'il said.


About the island observation-

I understand what you are saying Ralfa'il, but can you please prove WHY and HOW they would not survive? I think I might have an idea, but I am not one who puts words into people's mouths. As a matter of fact, believe it or not, but I have thought about this very line for some time now:You take 25 of the average degreed negroes from America and put them on a desserted island by themselves and they wouldn't last a week.
Because not only haven't most us learned the skills necessary to initiate and maintain civilization; like proper sanitation, building and securing structures, proper nutrition and how to treat wounds...

But most of us don't have the necessary SOCIAL skills needed to work together and help advance society.

The proud and jealous people we are....

75% of the men would kill eachother trying to act hard and impress women for a little coochie under the palm tree; and half the women would kill eachother over the men and who stole who's make up.

Every black man would want to be the leader and teamwork would be out of the question.

Come on kid, you know our people and all it takes is a little bit of inconvenience to bend us all out of shape.

Maybe a few who have been in the military and trained in survival techniques would make it, but most wouldn't.

Learning how to draft, or word-processing won't protect you from wild animals or provide fresh water for the community to drink.





I will admit - certain professions are good. I am doing a program right now, where I get to work with plumbers, electricians, and such, and I must say that I am enjoying the experience. However, this is where controversy comes in-

Borther Ralfa'il, I applaud your success as a tradesman. I myself went to a trade school, and I finished off as one of the top students in the nation in Career Education there. You can attend trade school, and STILL earn a regular school education! That will just put more icing on the cake. Also, let me bring this to your attention before I forget:

I need to ask you-
Do you think about the children of our future, and what type of educational opportnities they have?
Ofcourse.




The reason why so many of them want to become basketball players, rappers, and/or actors is because they are exposed to this type of environment. They hang out on the basketball courts, watch too much TV, listen to too muich rap music; yet, they have not been exposed to becoming a doctor, teach, lawyer, etc. They only know what they see. Not to mention, when they are at home they do not get much encouragement. If you thought about the situation we are in, especially in our communities, you would not fault them for going to college and earning their degrees.

We NEED more black teachers.
We NEED more black lawyers.
We NEED more black politicians.
We NEED more black doctors.
We NEED more black businessmen and women.
We NEED more black LEADERS!
I totally agree.

But these are professionals who work WITHIN an ALREADY ESTABLISHED civilization and advanced society so they can afford to pass off on the basics.
You already have enough skilled tradesment to get the work accomplished necessary to maintain the infrustructure.

But if you go to some of the most rural part of third world where you don't have this balance and everyone is poor.
They are told that getting a college education is the only way to lift themselves up out of poverty.
So rather than learning how to improve thier society and it's infrastructure...they'd rather get a degree and come West so they can enjoy one white folks have alread established.

They do this because the basic infrastructure and values of most third world societies are incomplete.




Our children ages 5 and up and being incarcerated without parents knowing about it! They cannot handle teaching us, so we need to teach us. The State of the Economy is ridiculous - there is a young black person out there somewhere who is looking to change that. Lastly, the War on Poverty is getting worse every year - someone is looking to stop that! All of these positions that need to be filled to make us a better group of people, and you suggest 5 professions? THESE ARE DIFFERENCE-MAKING OPPORTUNITIES RIGHT HERE! What difference can you make earning a trade, that millions of other people have already earned? We can be innovators! NOT Duplicators. Our future generations bonded together and became a group of difference makers, Amerikkka would waste time blinking their eyes, while we get up off the bottom of the pyramid! THAT'S POSSIBLE! As GOD is my witness, it can happen! The ONLY question is-

DO WE WANT IT?
I agree with this.

We certainly need to teach our own children instead of seeing them hauled away in hand-cuffs as soon as they start crying.


I also agree we need a healthy balance of both intellectual and skilled professionals but we need to have our priorities together for the condition we find ourselves in today.

If we were given our own nation and half of our people were illiterate with no skills, while the other half were doctors and lawyers...STILL...very little would get accomplished and those with degrees would probably just move away and to a nation with an already strong infrastructures.

Regardless of if my response came yesterday or 20 months from now, accept the fact that I responded. Personally, I don't care HOW long it takes for someone to respond to mine.

Are there any rules and/or regulations family that says that you MUST respond within a certain amount of time that I am unaware of?

I am not getting nasty because that is not what I do. I don't lose my cool, especially not on the internet. I am just saying that the only thing that should matter is that I responded. In this particular thread, I felt that I should respond later, because I had to think about what I was going to say. We are talking about Education here, and I take Education seriously. Samurai just happened to respond when I thought about doing so, and he wrote a good post, so I thought that I would mention that in my post. It wasn't a double-team. Him and I have two different mindsets.

At this point in time Ralfa'il, I don't care if you do or do not respond to my post, because I see that you take it personal, depending on how long it takes for me to respond to a post.

For what it's worth, I still have love for you as a brotha.

:nono: What the hell was THAT all about???

THAT was the same thing I said in my mind when I saw your response before that last one!

Don't take it personal.......i'm certainly not. You are a good teacher; it would be insulting for me to REALLY come out at you like that. Believe it or not, my tone in that post is below calm!

CD

Cedric

Maximum


Because not only haven't most us learned the skills necessary to initiate and maintain civilization; like proper sanitation, building and securing structures, proper nutrition and how to treat wounds...

But most of us don't have the necessary SOCIAL skills needed to work together and help advance society.

The proud and jealous people we are....

75% of the men would kill eachother trying to act hard and impress women for a little coochie under the palm tree; and half the women would kill eachother over the men and who stole who's make up.

Every black man would want to be the leader and teamwork would be out of the question.

Come on kid, you know our people and all it takes is a little bit of inconvenience to bend us all out of shape.

Maybe a few who have been in the military and trained in survival techniques would make it, but most wouldn't.

Learning how to draft, or word-processing won't protect you from wild animals or provide fresh water for the community to drink.

Ofcourse.





I totally agree.

But these are professionals who work WITHIN an ALREADY ESTABLISHED civilization and advanced society so they can afford to pass off on the basics.
You already have enough skilled tradesment to get the work accomplished necessary to maintain the infrustructure.

But if you go to some of the most rural part of third world where you don't have this balance and everyone is poor.
They are told that getting a college education is the only way to lift themselves up out of poverty.
So rather than learning how to improve thier society and it's infrastructure...they'd rather get a degree and come West so they can enjoy one white folks have alread established.

They do this because the basic infrastructure and values of most third world societies are incomplete.





I agree with this.

We certainly need to teach our own children instead of seeing them hauled away in hand-cuffs as soon as they start crying.


I also agree we need a healthy balance of both intellectual and skilled professionals but we need to have our priorities together for the condition we find ourselves in today.

If we were given our own nation and half of our people were illiterate with no skills, while the other half were doctors and lawyers...STILL...very little would get accomplished and those with degrees would probably just move away and to a nation with an already strong infrastructures.

Goodness! What I thought you were trying to say IS what you were trying to say. All I have to ask you now is-

What solutions do you have for these problems? As I have read your posts, I have understood that you know how to bring the issue to the table; NOW I would like to know your solutions!

Yes, its true that many of us do not practice proper health and sanitation, but what can motivate us to do so?

Yes, most of us cannot handle working as a team, but what will it take to get out of that mindset?

.........Dang! You threw the wild animals in! :eeek: You got me there! But wouldn't you agree that an articulate Scientist - turned college professor would know how to deal with that!

Also, as I was thinking about your excellent observation, I said that it would depend on what is available to you on the island. I will tell you this-
If there are any hidden electronic devices, and I was a Computer Engineer, I sure would have what I need to communicate with someone! But then again, it depends on the situation. However, you are right Ralf-
Being that it is me and other people, it would taker a 'joint effort' that most people cannot handle. We will learn....eventually.

Remember what I said.......bottom line - YOU HAVE TO WANT TO DO IT! The reason why I enjoy saying this repetitiously is because that eliminates the complaints and excuses that you have to put up with. In other words, if someone says that they do not like living in the 'hood,' and they do not want to do what it teakes to get out of the hood, then there isnothing more to talk about. If someone does not like the next President, but they do not exercise their right to vote, there is nothing more to say to that person.

Also, just because we have these problems, does not mean that whites and others don't have these problems!

Key questions:

WHAT ARE THE SOLUTIONS?
DO YOU WANT TO LEARN IT OR DON'T YOU?
DO YOU WANT TO COME TOGETHER OR DON'T YOU?

CD

Cedric


Goodness! What I thought you were trying to say IS what you were trying to say. All I have to ask you now is-

What solutions do you have for these problems? As I have read your posts, I have understood that you know how to bring the issue to the table; NOW I would like to know your solutions!

Yes, its true that many of us do not practice proper health and sanitation, but what can motivate us to do so?

Yes, most of us cannot handle working as a team, but what will it take to get out of that mindset?

.........Dang! You threw the wild animals in! You got me there! But wouldn't you agree that an articulate Scientist - turned college professor would know how to deal with that!

Also, as I was thinking about your excellent observation, I said that it would depend on what is available to you on the island. I will tell you this-
If there are any hidden electronic devices, and I was a Computer Engineer, I sure would have what I need to communicate with someone! But then again, it depends on the situation. However, you are right Ralf-
Being that it is me and other people, it would taker a 'joint effort' that most people cannot handle. We will learn....eventually.

Remember what I said.......bottom line - YOU HAVE TO WANT TO DO IT! The reason why I enjoy saying this repetitiously is because that eliminates the complaints and excuses that you have to put up with. In other words, if someone says that they do not like living in the 'hood,' and they do not want to do what it teakes to get out of the hood, then there isnothing more to talk about. If someone does not like the next President, but they do not exercise their right to vote, there is nothing more to say to that person.

Also, just because we have these problems, does not mean that whites and others don't have these problems!

Key questions:

WHAT ARE THE SOLUTIONS?
DO YOU WANT TO LEARN IT OR DON'T YOU?
DO YOU WANT TO COME TOGETHER OR DON'T YOU?


Actually, probably the best and most natural solution is to have independance forced upon us as a people so that we are forced to govern and do for ourselves.
That way our priorities will automatically sift themselves out and the males as well as the females will automatically gravitate toward their God given roles.

Because as long as we're living under a system that white men control, most of us will continue to neglect the important basic duties needed to for civilization.

We will still continue to strive to be singers, dancers, ball players, and other entertainers that don't really build a civilization but merely provide relief and amusement for those who do.

Many of us will still run around in the older parts of established urban centers (inner cities) engaging in illegal activity, gang-banging over terrirory, and going to jail.

The women will continue to out-do us in terms of jobs and education, and the men will continue to wrestle between trying to fit into a white male dominated world and still retain his sense of masculinity.

You right...we will learn EVENTUALLY...

But at this point, shoving us off into independance...while eventually bringing the best out of us...would immediately bring disaster because most of us would pershish.





Solutions:

The best solution would be to create strong NATIONAL (key word) organizations within our community.


1. We need a national organization that show our children how to be productive and progressive young men and women.

Sort of like the "rites of passage" systems our ancestors had.

This way our boys and girls don't grow up confused and letting television, rap videos, and peers from broken homes show them how to grow up.



2. We need a national organization that stresses the importance of boys learning manuel skills like carpentry, electrical, plumbing, brick laying, contstruction, agriculture.

That way we don't have to see our communities fall apart and rot just because a white government refuses to provide the necessary funds for revitalization. We can do it ourselves instead of relying on white government contractors.

Also, if a natural disaster occurs, we won't be at the mercies of white people for our survival and maintainance.


3. We need a national black health-care organization and a plan to build our own hospitals and clinics as well as produce more of our own doctors and nurses.
I don't want to have to rely on some white, Korean, or Indian nurse who's afraid to touch me...to properly take care of me and clean me.

I'd rather my beautiful black sista do it.



4. Most of all we need to establish our own factories and bring industrialization back to our communities so that a man doesn't have to get a 4 year college degree just to make a living.


The reason I say these organizations need to be "national" is because we are too divided as a people already and need a massive national system that puts all of us on the same page.

You say - NATIONAL - I say INTERNATIONAL...

BLACK INTERNATIONAL! - Meaning blacks from EVERY nation!

I am not racist (just being honest) However, I do not take kindly to being at the bottom of the ladder - when we can be at the top! That is what God has appointed me to do. Dr. Martin Luther King had a vision of seeing that we can get somewhere, and if you want to know what my vision MAYlook like - think of King's.

Anyhow, the reason why I also mentioned kids, and why I target our children, is because the earlier you start, the better. If they learn to work hard and do well when they are younger, they will do absolutely well.

As far as Entertainment goes, I relate you you with those thoughts. I just think that Entertainment is a waste of time, and the only one who benefits is the entertainer making money.

ONLY in Amerikkka will someone shoot, rob, or kill for money.
ONLY in Amerikkka will you find sistahs out on the streets selling their bodies for money, and stripping in the club for money.

ONLY in Amerikkka will you encounter people who are ONLY working to pay bills.

And so forth.

I say-
You can take away my money, my home, my clothes, and my food.........but I will STILL have my Education, dignity, SOUL, and my heart. Unfortunately, NO weapons formed against me will prosper, so I do not worry about that. But that is the message that we need to send to our people out on the streets. ONLY in Amerikkka will do do what you do JUST to earn a quick dollar. If you had asked for salvation BEFORE asking for a pay raise, you will more than likely be in a better position than you think. Money is only paper that burns! And that is the way I will forever look at it.

Was Kign a millionaire - NO!
Was Malcolm X a millionaire - NO!
Was Garvey a millionaire - NO!
Was Sojourner Truth a millionaire - NO!
Was Mary McLeod Bethune a millionaire - NO!
Was Frederick Douglass a millionaire - NO!
Was Harriet Tubman a millionaire - NO!
Was Benjamin Banneker a millionaire - NO!
Was Medgar Evers a millionaire - NO!

These people spent their lives CHANGING the world! Especially America. Now I will admit, it takes a god-given talent to become an entertainer, but arean't there enough of them? The average brand new entertainer only makes it up to a one-hit wonder! Those society-changing persons were not actors, ball-players, or other various entertainers. I learn from them, and pick up where they left off. THEY did not do what they did to earn money; they did it because they wanted people like US to have the most pleasant lives possible. Society has been brainwashed into believing otherwise. We need to fix that.

In order to become agriculturists, doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc., we MUST be introduced to those environments. You cannot expect a group of inner-city boys and girls to grow up with an affinity for hiking, safe environments, food preservation, taming wild animals, and so forth. They must be influenced into those fields of study. Might I add, they shall NOT do it because they need to pay bills; they shall do it because they love it, and they are creating a better environment for themselves, their families, and their communities.

Like I always said and say-

YOU HAVE TO WANT TO DO IT!

CD

Goodness! What I thought you were trying to say IS what you were trying to say. All I have to ask you now is-

What solutions do you have for these problems? As I have read your posts, I have understood that you know how to bring the issue to the table; NOW I would like to know your solutions!

Also, just because we have these problems, does not mean that whites and others don't have these problems!

Key questions:

WHAT ARE THE SOLUTIONS?
DO YOU WANT TO LEARN IT OR DON'T YOU?
DO YOU WANT TO COME TOGETHER OR DON'T YOU?

CD

Precisely.

PEACE

Solutions:

The best solution would be to create strong NATIONAL (key word) organizations within our community.

As Cedric stated, INTERNATIONAL is the key, not just national. No nation is an island, and every demographic of people in America reaches out and establishes a strong connection with their native country/society.

I haven't heard you mention this yet.

And our not doing this is what is keeping black people behind.




1. We need a national organization that show our children how to be productive and progressive young men and women.

Sort of like the "rites of passage" systems our ancestors had.

It's interesting that you mention this, yet in other threads you speak so disrespectfully of these cultural practices--calling them "pagan" and whatnot.

I'd like a detailed understanding of how you would utilized these systems in a practical social manner, please.

2. We need a national organization that stresses the importance of boys learning manuel skills like carpentry, electrical, plumbing, brick laying, contstruction, agriculture.

That way we don't have to see our communities fall apart and rot just because a white government refuses to provide the necessary funds for revitalization. We can do it ourselves instead of relying on white government contractors.

Also, if a natural disaster occurs, we won't be at the mercies of white people for our survival and maintainance.

This is all well and good, but how do you intend to bring this into fruition? There is always someone telling us "what we need".

What materiality are you actually bringing to the table?


3. We need a national black health-care organization and a plan to build our own hospitals and clinics as well as produce more of our own doctors and nurses.
I don't want to have to rely on some white, Korean, or Indian nurse who's afraid to touch me...to properly take care of me and clean me.

I'd rather my beautiful black sista do it.

There are already plenty of Black PEOPLE (not just women) in healthcare......If you have an HMO, you can choose which healthcare providers you can go see, from a substantial network.

How is this solving a problem?

4. Most of all we need to establish our own factories and bring industrialization back to our communities so that a man doesn't have to get a 4 year college degree just to make a living.

With a world turning to advanced robotics and manual labor being slowly phased out, how are these factories going to save us? In "your world", we'll still be a half-century behind the white man.

This sounds like a fear of yours, to pursue higher education, if for no other reason than to just pursue it.

In all honesty, between this thread and numerous others, you sound like the person that CHRIS ROCK was talking about, when he said "BOOKS ARE LIKE KRYPTONITE TO ******".

If you wish to toil your life away in a factory doing slave labor, then do you.

The White man, like it or not, has created success for himself, by creating the motto "work smarter, not harder".

The reason I say these organizations need to be "national" is because we are too divided as a people already and need a massive national system that puts all of us on the same page.

And how precisely is this to be created?

The White man, like it or not, has created success for himself, by creating the motto "work smarter, not harder".


Also-

What they mean by that is this-

"Work smart to ensure that I get a high grade from city and state government, but don't work hard so that I can say that I did all the hard work."

CD

How are we gonna go "international" and haven't learned to work with eachother in America yet?

Go international with what and to whom?

Both of you have seen the latest bickering and back-n-forth that's been going on between AfroAmericans and Africans on this site and how we both have different perceptions of life and how the world works.

Imaging you going over to Nigeria or Jamaica or Panama with your false impressions and fantasies of Pan Africanism. You're liable to get your pockets turned out and ran out of the village.


No, first we create NATIONAL organizations and get our own act together first.

Just look at the 50% unemployment and high incarceration rate among black men in America. Most of these bruthaz lack both the skills and basic work ethic that makes them employable in the first place so even if they get a job they don't know how to keep it.

Let us remove the beams out of OUR OWN eyes so we can properly see how to help remove the splinters from the rest of our family.

How are we gonna go "international" and haven't learned to work with eachother in America yet?

This is a semi-valid point, however:


Go international with what and to whom?

Is this a trick question?

Both of you have seen the latest bickering and back-n-forth that's been going on between AfroAmericans and Africans on this site and how we both have different perceptions of life and how the world works.

From what I've seen, there less Africans on here, than I have fingers on my left hand.

I know it hard for you not to, but please refrain from making broad sweeping statements.

Imaging you going over to Nigeria or Jamaica or Panama with your false impressions and fantasies of Pan Africanism. You're liable to get your pockets turned out and ran out of the village.

That's funny, I've been to 4 African countries, and my maternal heritage is Jamaican (Saint Mary Province), and that has never happened to me.

Ironic though, that a dude who has admitted to NEVER leaving America is going to admonish us against what happens in other countries........Go figure :rolleyes:

No, first we create NATIONAL organizations and get our own act together first

It's funny how you speak in such exclusive terms.

When Koreans say "we and our", do they mean only those Koreans here in America?

What about the Latinos? The Jews?

These days, a global mentality is the only way to survive the current socio-political climate of the world.

Just look at the 50% unemployment and high incarceration rate among black men in America. Most of these bruthaz lack both the skills and basic work ethic that makes them employable in the first place so even if they get a job they don't know how to keep it.

This has........What, to do with the fact that high science makes the world go 'round?

Let us remove the beams out of OUR OWN eyes so we can properly see how to help remove the splinters from the rest of our family.

I agree, but once again, you have not produced a shred of methodology, as to how we are going to accomplish this.

As I stated in my previous response, everyone is saying "we need to do this or that", but nobody is paving the way.

Stop telling me what I need to do, and SHOW me.

PEACE

Sam

Observe this thread:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34462

Sam

Observe this thread:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34462

I've already "observed" it. But I thank you for pointing it out once again.

PEACE

Solutions:

The best solution would be to create strong NATIONAL (key word) organizations within our community.


1. We need a national organization that show our children how to be productive and progressive young men and women.

Sort of like the "rites of passage" systems our ancestors had.

This way our boys and girls don't grow up confused and letting television, rap videos, and peers from broken homes show them how to grow up.



2. We need a national organization that stresses the importance of boys learning manuel skills like carpentry, electrical, plumbing, brick laying, contstruction, agriculture.

That way we don't have to see our communities fall apart and rot just because a white government refuses to provide the necessary funds for revitalization. We can do it ourselves instead of relying on white government contractors.

Also, if a natural disaster occurs, we won't be at the mercies of white people for our survival and maintainance.


3. We need a national black health-care organization and a plan to build our own hospitals and clinics as well as produce more of our own doctors and nurses.
I don't want to have to rely on some white, Korean, or Indian nurse who's afraid to touch me...to properly take care of me and clean me.

I'd rather my beautiful black sista do it.



4. Most of all we need to establish our own factories and bring industrialization back to our communities so that a man doesn't have to get a 4 year college degree just to make a living.


The reason I say these organizations need to be "national" is because we are too divided as a people already and need a massive national system that puts all of us on the same page.


Do any of you object to these solutions?

Solutions:
Do any of you object to these solutions?

Seeing as how none of this is "solutions", but just projections, I'd chime in with a resounding "yes". :fyi:

This is like the W.E.B. and Booker T. debate…In my broader-extended Black family I know and have known, at least one PhD. and there are of course those with Bachelors and Masters degrees, and also skilled workers, lawyers, tradesmen and laborers and so forth. And there are those who may not fit any of these professions… This probably makes my “extended family” not so unusual… I’ve spent almost a lifetime in the arts community and have had a particular tradesmen skill for decades. I was also taught to swing a hammer and crosscut and rip a 2 by 4 when I was just a child, for we had to build from scratch many things we played with __lol (skate board, go-carts, stilts, etc.). Man, I went to a junkyard and built my first bike from parts_lol ...let me stop digressing and reminiscing _lol

Now I’m not a stranger to hard work or books, but from a “do-for-self” Black Nationalist point of view, the academic elite in our community has failed the Black community at large.

The highly educated (Yale, Oxford, MIT) may have better their personal lives and may be held in high esteem, and been a great benefit to the overall society in their particular professions or positions, but they have had very little affect on the progression of the Black community at large. They are usually working for either their on personal capital or that of a large corporation or company. And even their higher incomes generated, goes directly to those that hired most of them (consumerism = white folks).

You might find Black tradesmen in larger numbers in some places, but across the board they are in low numbers. And even when they are able to knock down the doors of the racist unions and guilds, these brothers and sisters are usually working for white companies, on large commercial projects that only benefit the rich.

Unfortunately, there is this idea among progressive pan-Africanist and revolutionaries that the conscious and aware folks are going to rhetorically rebuild the Black community, at the expense of the untrained unaware folks. There is a reason why we don’t have any institutions…it’s because, we are either not trained in-force to build, we don’t own heavy equipment or tools, we don’t own or wholesale/retail any building material resources (cement, drywall, wiring, plumbing parts) and we forget the world is really made up of nails, nuts, bolts, screws, lumber, toilets, forks, knives and chair…not computers and calculators.

There are very few if any, Black scientific minds focused on applicable engineering and ideas that are going to affect the Black community directly! I don’t care how much education you have, If you can’t swing a hammer or find a screw to tighten up something loose… you ain’t getting ready to build a chicken coup…let alone an institution or a nation… and after you build, you must maintain…!

So, I’m all for more Black engineers, lawyers and chemist as I am for more Black carpenters, electricians and plumbers…but If they are not Black Nationalist or revolutionary in their thinking, they won’t really change too much in our core community or will they build any institutions or creative constructive alternatives to what we have now…

Sun Ship:

Your post is very good. However, everyone's purpose is not to to Lumber work. You also mentioned that Blacks are Maintenance workers and such, but they work for white companies. This issue ABSOLUTELY needs to be rectified for us.

By the way, How about HBCU's with Educational and Vocational opportunities? Are you for or against that?

CD

There are very few if any, Black scientific minds focused on applicable engineering and ideas that are going to affect the Black community directly! I don’t care how much education you have, If you can’t swing a hammer or find a screw to tighten up something loose… you ain’t getting ready to build a chicken coup…let alone an institution or a nation… and after you build, you must maintain…!

Word is bond!

This is what I'm trying to get my people to understand.

They keep stressing college and universities to our children but that only creditializes them to work in a white man's world, it doesn't teach them to be independant and self sufficient building a world of their own.

This is a very interesting thread.

I agree with Ral that acquiring a trade is important, but like anything else it needs to be applied to the black community if it's going to be effective. He raises some good points about being able to build our communities ourselves without having to rely on help from the government or white contractors who are going to charge an arm and a leg for their services.

All of you on this board have good ideas for improving the livelihood of African-Americans. However, those ideas must be put into effect through institution(s). There is a time for discussion and a time for action. Therefore, instead of argueing with others on the board, you can try to build a relationship with like-minded forum users and attempt to establish an institution through which African-Americans can improve their collective condition as a non-landowning, poor, and urban population.
Please refrain from expressing racist assumptions about Mexican-Americans, Korean-Americans, and all other ethnic and religious groups. Some forum users write that East Asian immigrants are "given" transportation and jobs upon arrival in the US. This is incorrect. As an immigrant from a small country in the former Soviet Union, I know that immigrants are not and should not be "given" jobs; immigrants should try to find jobs themselves. When I came to the US, we were initially poor and lived in cockroach-infested apartments, but my mother and my father (God bless them) improved our economic condition by working both smart and hard. My father, a former physicist, held various blue collar jobs like baker, security guard, and ice-cream truck man without thinking that he should not perform manual labor because he was a physicist. Most people who have pulled themselves up by their proverbial bootstraps are insulted if they hear that they improved economically on a personal level through government handouts, not their own hard work. Thus, 1) certain ethnic groups of immigrants are not "wealthy" because the government gave them jobs, but rather government handouts perpetuate poverty by voiding incentives for economic self-improvement, 2) good ideas that come up in discussion should be put into effect by establishing and maintaining institutions, 3) people should not think that performing manual labor is degrading, when it can be uplifting to see the creation of your own labor.

All of you on this board have good ideas for improving the livelihood of African-Americans. However, those ideas must be put into effect through institution(s). There is a time for discussion and a time for action. Therefore, instead of argueing with others on the board, you can try to build a relationship with like-minded forum users and attempt to establish an institution through which African-Americans can improve their collective condition as a non-landowning, poor, and urban population.
Please refrain from expressing racist assumptions about Mexican-Americans, Korean-Americans, and all other ethnic and religious groups. Some forum users write that East Asian immigrants are "given" transportation and jobs upon arrival in the US. This is incorrect. As an immigrant from a small country in the former Soviet Union, I know that immigrants are not and should not be "given" jobs; immigrants should try to find jobs themselves. When I came to the US, we were initially poor and lived in cockroach-infested apartments, but my mother and my father (God bless them) improved our economic condition by working both smart and hard. My father, a former physicist, held various blue collar jobs like baker, security guard, and ice-cream truck man without thinking that he should not perform manual labor because he was a physicist. Most people who have pulled themselves up by their proverbial bootstraps are insulted if they hear that they improved economically on a personal level through government handouts, not their own hard work. Thus, 1) certain ethnic groups of immigrants are not "wealthy" because the government gave them jobs, but rather government handouts perpetuate poverty by voiding incentives for economic self-improvement, 2) good ideas that come up in discussion should be put into effect by establishing and maintaining institutions, 3) people should not think that performing manual labor is degrading, when it can be uplifting to see the creation of your own labor.

I think the main beef the black community has with Asians is that some of them establish businesses in black neighborhoods while disrespecting their patrons, (following them around the stores, being rude, etc.).

As far as Mexicans, I think blacks see them as competition for jobs on top of the fact that many harbor the same type of prejudices that whites do.

Indeed, some non-black POCs, despite being just that, a POC have taken full advantage of their token model-minority status and ****ted on blacks while kissing the white man's butt. This is what angers the black community and subsequently what people will make comments on.

Just out of curiousity, you say you're an immigrant from Russia.... are you African or African American? If not, why are you visiting Destee.com?

Just out of curiousity, you say you're an immigrant from Russia.... are you African or African American? If not, why are you visiting Destee.com?

Karmashine:

I highly doubt that he is black (although there are blacks in Russia). And as a result, my follow up to Devil'sAdvocate is: Who are you to be giving us advice on what we need to do? If you are a non-black, who is only a 1st generation American, no one is asking for your opinion! It is incredibly arrogant of new immigrants to come to the United States of America and attempt to tell a community (African Americans) who have been here before the nation was founded how to live. If you were as innovative and valuable as you think, then you would still be in your native country! Instead of improving conditions in your own land, you chose to flee (persecution, poverty, war, famine, etc) and come here. Therefore don't try and act like African Americans are flawed by not being to overcome similar conditions that your people were just as ineffective at overcoming!

Yeah, devilsadvocate, it does sound like you are giving us the 'if-you-work-hard-all-is-well' message, which is typically a belief reflected by those immersed in white culture's thinking. This is their immediate response when the issue of racism is brought up.

Also, if you are white, (which I'm assuming you are because Russia is a white country), you automatically have privileges and acceptance from American culture just because of your skin color. As long as you are a LEGAL immigrant, you are viewed with a higher regard than a black person.

If you are black, then you should be more understanding of this community's viewpoints because more likely than not you would've encountered the same types of prejudices. Immigrant blacks and African Americans, despite being from different cultural mindsets still face similar discrimination because in America if you're black, you're lesser.

Additional Newsflash: Working hard does nothing for blacks, who are viewed as being inferior in society REGARDLESS of their socieoeconomic status. In order for blacks to advance in American culture they must find ways to become less reliant on white culture.

x-no archive: yes
I stated that I was from a small country in the former USSR, not Russia. The name of that small country is Armenia, and it is in the Southern Caucuses Mountains. No, I am not black in the American sense, but in Russia people consider people from the Southern Caucasuses ("Caucasians" does not mean white in this sense) black. Walking down the streets of St. Petersburg, people with dark hair but not tan skin are liable to be arrested by police, be called "chornyi" in a racially dergogatory way, which means "black" in Russian, by complete strangers, and are also liable to be beaten or killed by skinheads. However, my skin was almost black on a recent trip to a Mediterranean country. My parents left the former USSR because they were not communists or socialists and because they preferred American culture to Soviet culture.

Yes, most Russians are white, but there are also many Tatar, Turkic, and central Asian Russians in Tatarstan and the eastern and southern borders of Russia. There are also Ossetians and other groups in Southern Russia. When the nation of Russia was founded, it was and still is composed of many ethnic, racial, and religious groups.

I found destee.com through a Google search on Pan-Africanism and self-reliance. I am a survivalist, and it often seems that most survivalists are white. Wanting to communicate with other survivalists who are not so racially homogeneous, I thought about a lecture I heard in class about Pan-Africanism and immedietely thought of the importance of institutions of self-reliance in the economic improvement of underpriveleged minority groups. Unfortunately, I have been observing survivalists fail to take action to build self-reliance institutions. Knowing the dangers of inaction, I stated that it is best to get started on building institutions that will help African-Americans become self-reliant.

The recent government failure to respond appropriately to the Hurricane Katrina disaster in Louisiana and Mississippi is a tragic example of what can happen when people, whether individually or as a community are not prepared for a natural, social, or political disaster, if FEMA fails to respond appropriately.

I apologize for creating the impression that I am suggesting that African-Americans could improve if they work hard for white companies. That is not what I meant. I was trying to show that immigrants are not lazy people who are given jobs or money upon arrival.
Just for the record, I am female, not male.
Thank you. Have a nice day!

Interesting perspective, ADVOCATE.

If I may make a suggestion, you might want to post a recent pic of yourself up, just to give us a clear indication of what you speak of, when you describe yourself.

PEACE

Thank you for your timely response. Attaching files to posts is not allowed in this forum, and I do not post pictures of myself or anyone else online for obvious reasons. I m not Russian.

If you need more proof that Russia is a multi-ethnic and mult-racial nation, you can click on the following links:

-this is a map of the regions of Russia in Russian: http://www.admin.debryansk.ru/~press/MAP.JPG
-the following is map that shows the countries bordering Russia, which include China, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Belarus, Finland, Ukraine, etc.: http://www.worldcountries.info/Maps/Map-Russia.htm
-A large portion of Russia is in Asia, the Ural Mountains and the Caucasus Mountains mark the border between Europe and Asia. As can be seen on the following map, the Ural Mountains divide Russia between Europe and Asia at sixty degrees lattitude: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/cia05/russia_sm05.gif
-this is an ethnic map of Russia that indicates the percentage of certain ethnic groups living in certain parts of Russia: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commonwealth/russia_ethnic94.jpg
-this map shows that Russia is connected to Alaska through the Aleutian Islands in the Bering Strait (the Aleuts are Native Americans): http://www.losttreasure.com/newsletter/3-2-2004/oldnews_files/_39694041_russia_alaska_map203.gif

As indicated before, there are also black people that live in Russia. Thus, there are white, Caucasian, Asian, Turkic, Tatar, Black, and Native "American" (Aleut) people in Russia.

I found destee.com through a Google search on Pan-Africanism and self-reliance. I am a survivalist, and it often seems that most survivalists are white. Wanting to communicate with other survivalists who are not so racially homogeneous, I thought about a lecture I heard in class about Pan-Africanism and immedietely thought of the importance of institutions of self-reliance in the economic improvement of underpriveleged minority groups. Unfortunately, I have been observing survivalists fail to take action to build self-reliance institutions. Knowing the dangers of inaction, I stated that it is best to get started on building institutions that will help African-Americans become self-reliant.

Devil'sadvocate:

I hope you realize that PanAfricanism is a black movement, and does not include other "minority groups", unless said groups are black people. Having dark hair, and a really nice tan doesn't qualify one as black. Also the ethic diversity of the former Soviet Union, while interesting, would only be of interest to a PanAfricanist if those various ethnic groups are of African heritage. PanAfricanist are not interested in the help or encouragement of other people (even other ethnic people). Indeed that would defeat the purpose of the movement!

I mentioned the racial diversity of Russia because someone mistakenly labeled me a white Russian on the incorrect assumption that Russia is a "white country". It is true that I am not black in the American sense. I do not argue that I am black; I state that in Russia people of certain non-African ethnic groups are called "black".
However, I shouldn't be asked to leave destee.com because I am not black. Excluding non-black people from destee.com is segregationist and racist. The text above the written contributions of destee.com members states, "We Are About Loving, Encouraging, Embracing, Teaching and Building With Our People. No Hate Allowed." Thus, don't reject non-black people's suggestions for establishing institutions that will help African-Americans become less dependant on white institutions and companies on the basis of the suggesters' race. I do have survivalism experience.

Excluding non-black people from destee.com is segregationist and racist. The text above the written contributions of destee.com members states, "We Are About Loving, Encouraging, Embracing, Teaching and Building With Our People. No Hate Allowed." Thus, don't reject non-black people's suggestions for establishing institutions that will help African-Americans become less dependant on white institutions and companies on the basis of the suggesters' race. I do have survivalism experience.

For your clarification Devil'sadvocate, "our people" means black people! As far as "me" rejecting your suggestion for establishing institutions that will help African-Americans become less dependant on white institutions...we don't need you to tell us that! We have been discussing black self-determination & self-sufficiency on this website long before you ever came here, and Blacks in general have been discussing this long before either one of us were born. Also concerning your comment about being excluded from destee.com as segregationist & racist.....please! I sincerely hope you don't expect that particular statement to gain any sympathy. I honestly don't care about your survivalism experience. Unless your survivalism experience includes 400 years slavery, rape, genocide, and apartheid....it is meaningless to most African Americans.

Okay, panafrica, you are right to say that Russia's ethnic diversity and my personal survival experience doesn't matter to most African-Americans. I am sorry. In terms of ethnic survivalism, I can be of use to destee.com. However, I will not post anything at all about personal survival philosophy unless a specific survivalism question is asked by another destee.com member.

Okay, panafrica, you are right to say that Russia's ethnic diversity and my personal survival experience doesn't matter to most African-Americans. I am sorry. In terms of ethnic survivalism, I can be of use to destee.com. However, I will not post anything at all about personal survival philosophy unless a specific survivalism question is asked by another destee.com member.

Now that you are aware this website is about Loving, Encouraging, Embracing, Teaching and Building With Our (Black) People...you should not be surprised that many will not see value in your survival experience. Indeed why do you seem to believe you have something to "teach" us, and that we need to hear what you have to say? That is quite pompous & arrogant of you to suggest (like we are just sitting around doing nothing but waiting for some white woman to come and lead us)! I would venture to say that you have more to learn from us, than we ever would learn from you. Not only that, I can certainly say that many of us (if not most of us) do not need or want to learn anything from you. If you insist on staying (you haven't provided a reason to be kicked out thus far)...I advise you listen & learn, instead of offering suggestions!

I thought I had replied to this form but i didnt.. so here gotes nothing!

The purpose of modern education is to keep the next generation from outsourcing the current one. Thats why they stopped child labor, it wasnt because it was wrong.. it was because it was stifeling the economic gain of the people. If you can pay a child 1/3 of that of an adult to do the exact same job would you? Of course not! But there are people who would!

Just think many students come out of high school with vocational training that their prior generation had to go to college for. They come out young, eager with less expericen.. but the educationg to get the job done. If all of these hungry non experienced workers come into the job place.. they can usually replace 2 older employees for every one yuppie. Its not a theory its a principal.. of Orginizational Behaviour. Just think you have been with the company for 7 years now.. your not near retirement.. and not current on all features of your current career. This young person could come in.. and be current on the technical areas of your job, and what he dosent know can be easily traind to know. Your salary job of 60,000 dollars a year was cut to give the new kid a job making 30,000 a year. The same yuppie that goes to college and gets his degree still with even more current knowledge.. and while he wont be paid 30g's any more he will come in at a whopping 45g's and is determined.. and money hungry for advancement within his feild.. while the elder of the company is content, an dfeels as though he has risen to his peak. Those who wish to rise.. and does rise.. within the company do not get outsourced... they get advanced and they get replaced with new yuppies!

The higher up you are in the food chain of business.. and the more current you are in your feild you reduce the risk of having so done to you.
The purpose of modern educatuon is to give the elder of the workplace a run for their money, and to balance the unemployment rate.... because we know if we tell more of our children to go to college and persue the bachelors, masters, doctorate.. it takes the business world more time to outsource their elder employees.

And that is the purpose of modern education..
to slow down the outsourcing of careers... to ensure that every one has the chance to advance in their careers, If they choose to do so!

Note to other in the forum:
this was written from an objective p.o.v, while we value ones time and consistency. The business world does not. Were all pluses and minuses in the equation of business.

I thought I had replied to this form but i didnt.. so here gotes nothing!

The purpose of modern education is to keep the next generation from outsourcing the current one. Thats why they stopped child labor, it wasnt because it was wrong.. it was because it was stifeling the economic gain of the people. If you can pay a child 1/3 of that of an adult to do the exact same job would you? Of course not! But there are people who would!

Just think many students come out of high school with vocational training that their prior generation had to go to college for. They come out young, eager with less expericen.. but the educationg to get the job done. If all of these hungry non experienced workers come into the job place.. they can usually replace 2 older employees for every one yuppie. Its not a theory its a principal.. of Orginizational Behaviour. Just think you have been with the company for 7 years now.. your not near retirement.. and not current on all features of your current career. This young person could come in.. and be current on the technical areas of your job, and what he dosent know can be easily traind to know. Your salary job of 60,000 dollars a year was cut to give the new kid a job making 30,000 a year. The same yuppie that goes to college and gets his degree still with even more current knowledge.. and while he wont be paid 30g's any more he will come in at a whopping 45g's and is determined.. and money hungry for advancement within his feild.. while the elder of the company is content, an dfeels as though he has risen to his peak. Those who wish to rise.. and does rise.. within the company do not get outsourced... they get advanced and they get replaced with new yuppies!

The higher up you are in the food chain of business.. and the more current you are in your feild you reduce the risk of having so done to you.
The purpose of modern educatuon is to give the elder of the workplace a run for their money, and to balance the unemployment rate.... because we know if we tell more of our children to go to college and persue the bachelors, masters, doctorate.. it takes the business world more time to outsource their elder employees.

And that is the purpose of modern education..
to slow down the outsourcing of careers... to ensure that every one has the chance to advance in their careers, If they choose to do so!

Note to other in the forum:
this was written from an objective p.o.v, while we value ones time and consistency. The business world does not. Were all pluses and minuses in the equation of business.

Thanks for getting the thread back on topic PoeticManifesta......Excellent response as well!

No prob.. jes thought id put it out there see what kinda fire it starts back in the thread... lol.. :bball:



Thanks for getting the thread back on topic PoeticManifesta......Excellent response as well!