The Indian government has dismissed a claim by an Aids expert that the country now has the most HIV-positive people in the world.
The claim was made by Richard Feachem of the Global Fund to Fight Aids. He says figures showing India having fewer cases than South Africa are wrong.

The United Nations says that South Africa has 5.3 million people infected with the Aids virus.

The Delhi government says there are 5.1 million cases in India.

However, independent experts say the number of people infected in India could be anywhere between 2.5 million and 8.5 million - because of the lack of reliable data here in relation to the HIV pandemic.

HIV/Aids is a serious problem [in India]. We are aware of the gravity of the situation and we have programmes to deal with it

SY Qureshi, National Aids Control Organisation

India's government-controlled National Aids Control Organisation (Naco) chief SY Qureshi told the BBC that Mr Feachem's claim was "nonsense".

"Our [Aids] surveillance systems are certified by the World Health Organisation, UN agency UNAids and the Indian Council of Medical Research [ICMR].

"We stand by our figure of 5.1 million [infections]," Mr Qureshi said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4463899.stm

HIV/AIDS as a biological weapon. Many people have dismissed this as a delusional manifestation of conspiracy theorists. This despite the fact that Western governments have acknowledged developing chemical weapons, and have expressed a willingness to use them. The advantage of chemical weapons is they halt the progression of potential enemies. They can destroy or significantly weaken a population, while leaving their resources in tact. Anthrax is a known biological weapon, which cause quite a scare in the US a couple of years ago. Small pox has the potential to become a devastating biological weapon. Few people look at HIV as a biological weapon; however, one has to wonder when looking at the percentage of South Africans & Indians infected with HIV/AIDS. Both India and South Africa are nations with a rapidly developing economy. With the fall of apartheid, both nations were free of white rule. Both countries have the potential to become the only non-white or Asian World Powers. Yet as each country attempts to move in this direction, both become distracted by a devastating HIV epidemic! I don’t believe in coincidences. In the case of South Africa, how is it possible for a country to have 5.3 million people infected with HIV, when 15 years ago (under Apartheid) this disease was not a major problem. The same can be asked about India. HIV/AIDS is supposedly a disease contracted through sex or a blood transfusion. It is not an airborne illness…supposedly you can’t contract it by not washing your hands. As a result, are we suppose to believe that 5.3 million people in South Africa & 5.1 million people in India became infected through natural means?

Its very sad to believe the the United States govenment created A.I.D.S with the intentions of destroying the blackman in the U.S and world wide. It sadens me even further that they have a cure for aids that they are not making readily available to all. They have been doing secret tests of all kinds of biologecal agents on black people since 1898. I have supplied a link read it for yourselves. http://www.***************/waronaids/

HIV/AIDS as a biological weapon. Many people have dismissed this as a delusional manifestation of conspiracy theorists. This despite the fact that Western governments have acknowledged developing chemical weapons, and have expressed a willingness to use them. The advantage of chemical weapons is they halt the progression of potential enemies. They can destroy or significantly weaken a population, while leaving their resources in tact. Anthrax is a known biological weapon, which cause quite a scare in the US a couple of years ago. Small pox has the potential to become a devastating biological weapon. Few people look at HIV as a biological weapon; however, one has to wonder when looking at the percentage of South Africans & Indians infected with HIV/AIDS. Both India and South Africa are nations with a rapidly developing economy. With the fall of apartheid, both nations were free of white rule. Both countries have the potential to become the only non-white or Asian World Powers. Yet as each country attempts to move in this direction, both become distracted by a devastating HIV epidemic! I don’t believe in coincidences. In the case of South Africa, how is it possible for a country to have 5.3 million people infected with HIV, when 15 years ago (under Apartheid) this disease was not a major problem. The same can be asked about India. HIV/AIDS is supposedly a disease contracted through sex or a blood transfusion. It is not an airborne illness…supposedly you can’t contract it by not washing your hands. As a result, are we suppose to believe that 5.3 million people in South Africa & 5.1 million people in India became infected through natural means?

there was a documentry on the creation of aids by a belgium scientist in the Kongo.It was aired on the history channel i believe. they disguised it as polio vacines even though polio hadnt been a threat for decades. They infected monkies fist, afrikans who asisted the scientis in the labratories told of how during these experiments no one was allowed in the labs.
The native knogolese assistants said if children refused the vaccine they were "punished".

"aids best believe its man made" Rass Kass-Nature of the threat

Here is a good link showing some of the history of AIDS in the US. I think it's important to remember that part of the problem with transmision at the beginning was the tainted blood supply. Besides homosexuals getting the disease the hemopheliacs were also coming down with it and people having surgery.

http://www.aegis.com/topics/timeline/default.asp

IMO it isn't a man made disease. I would think if the gov. was going to make a disease to kill black people off, than that's what it would do. AIDS doesn't care what color people are, it will kill anyone.

I remember reading that Aids was growing the fastest in India and Russia but Africa made the headlines. My heart goes out to anyone affected by Aids/ HIV ( victim or family/friends ), it's 'aggravating' how 'African' is synonymous with 'aids',and any discussion on Aids in the world, that's where it goes first, you can see a Africa continent image on every **** 'Stop Aids' poster ever made.

Here is a good link showing some of the history of AIDS in the US. I think it's important to remember that part of the problem with transmision at the beginning was the tainted blood supply. Besides homosexuals getting the disease the hemopheliacs were also coming down with it and people having surgery.

http://www.aegis.com/topics/timeline/default.asp

IMO it isn't a man made disease. I would think if the gov. was going to make a disease to kill black people off, than that's what it would do. AIDS doesn't care what color people are, it will kill anyone.

white supremecy is the planned assault, theft of land and natural resources of any peoples who are not white. White supremecists have used biological weapons for centuries. i will remind you of planned small pox infections of north and south american natives. i will remind you of planned small pox infections of kongolese people as well as other afrikan nations. Were these the only peoples on earth with small pox? of course not, MANY were infected not by warfare but from contact with other infected people.

at the base of modern white supremecey is population control, this is a theory from the hitler school of thought (stanic worship). these people literally think the earth should have a set population of about 500,000,000, which should be all white. These are insane people, who will do anything to advance their agenda.
As far as the eighties and the rise and spread of aids. The island of hati was one of the first if not the first nation (which just so happens to be a black nation) in the west to have an aids "epidemic"as were homosexuals. Hitler would murder homosexuals and any one who was not white. It is a known fact that hilter had teams of scientists working on all sorts of chemical/biological/and torcher weapontry and tecnology. Even going as far as to experiment on live humans such as jews, blacks, gays,and any one else he hated. So dont think for a second that the same people who follow his school of thought will not do the same. :bowdown:

You say if the government were trying to kill blacks with bio weapontry they would do it. History proves they have done it(to all people of color), and information leaks as well as research, and plain old intuition are proving they still do it today!

HIV/AIDS as a biological weapon. Many people have dismissed this as a delusional manifestation of conspiracy theorists. This despite the fact that Western governments have acknowledged developing chemical weapons, and have expressed a willingness to use them. The advantage of chemical weapons is they halt the progression of potential enemies. They can destroy or significantly weaken a population, while leaving their resources in tact. Anthrax is a known biological weapon, which cause quite a scare in the US a couple of years ago. Small pox has the potential to become a devastating biological weapon. Few people look at HIV as a biological weapon; however, one has to wonder when looking at the percentage of South Africans & Indians infected with HIV/AIDS. Both India and South Africa are nations with a rapidly developing economy. With the fall of apartheid, both nations were free of white rule. Both countries have the potential to become the only non-white or Asian World Powers. Yet as each country attempts to move in this direction, both become distracted by a devastating HIV epidemic! I don’t believe in coincidences. In the case of South Africa, how is it possible for a country to have 5.3 million people infected with HIV, when 15 years ago (under Apartheid) this disease was not a major problem. The same can be asked about India. HIV/AIDS is supposedly a disease contracted through sex or a blood transfusion. It is not an airborne illness…supposedly you can’t contract it by not washing your hands. As a result, are we suppose to believe that 5.3 million people in South Africa & 5.1 million people in India became infected through natural means?


There is nothing crazy about the conspiracy theory... I know I believe it. Africans and Indians have been doing the same thing sexually ever since their existence, yet AIDS is something that has shown up very recently... in the last couple of decades. This is not a disease indigenous to Africans because of 'wild' sexual practices (which is the RACIST explanation given by white culture and those trying to be like them), or eating monkies, or whatever else. It was created and planted in both the African American and African communities with the intent of causing harm.

There is nothing crazy about the conspiracy theory... I know I believe it. Africans and Indians have been doing the same thing sexually ever since their existence, yet AIDS is something that has shown up very recently... in the last couple of decades. This is not a disease indigenous to Africans because of 'wild' sexual practices (which is the RACIST explanation given by white culture and those trying to be like them), or eating monkies, or whatever else. It was created and planted in both the African American and African communities with the intent of causing harm.

Sister Karmashines, as you’ve stated the sexual practices of Africans have not changed since their existence, and they are not any different than any other people. Therefore how is it possible for a mostly sexually transmitted disease like HIV to infect 5.3 million in South Africa alone, when not even 1 million people in the United States are infected with this disease? Why did this become epidemic post-Apartheid, when it wasn’t a problem during Apartheid? Why is HIV on the rise in nations like India & China when it isn’t a problem in Europe? There are too many coincidences to allow me to believe this is a “natural” spread. Studies which suggest whites are more “resistant” to HIV infection than other people, increases my suspicions that this is indeed a man made disease, and it is being used for genocide in African & Asian nations! Those who think this is crazy are in denial!

DONGHU, China -- The most striking things about people from this village are that their threadbare clothes seem way too big and that nearly all of them share a hollow, desperate look in their eyes.

Stooped and shuffling, frail before their time, farmers who should be in their peak productive years are unable to tend their wheat fields or to care for their children. In this picturesque central Chinese village of 4,500, every family is touched by gruesome maladies: fevers, chronic diarrhea, mouth sores, unbearable headaches, weight loss, racking coughs, boils that do not heal.

Dozens of relatively young people have died here in each of the last two years. In December, 14 people in their 30's and 40's died.

The culprit that has devastated not just the health but the very soul of this impoverished place is something that local officials here in Henan Province have generally insisted is not a problem: it is H.I.V., the virus that causes AIDS.

While hints of this secret epidemic first seeped out from remote areas of China's countryside last year, the depth of the tragedy and the staggering toll it has taken on villages like Donghu are only now emerging, as desperate, dying farmers have started to speak out.

In Donghu, residents estimate that more than 80 percent of adults carry H.I.V., and more than 60 percent are already suffering debilitating symptoms. That would give this village, and the others like it, localized rates that are the highest in the world.

They add that local governments are in part responsible. Often encouraged by local officials, many farmers here in Henan contracted H.I.V. in the 1990's after selling blood at government-owned collection stations, under a procedure that could return pooled and infected blood to donors. From that point, the virus has continued to spread through other routes because those officials have blocked research and education campaigns about H.I.V., which they consider an embarrassment.

"Every family has someone who is ill, and many people have two or three," said Zhang Jianzhi, 51, who gathered with others who have the virus here. "I would guess more than 95 percent of people over the age of 14 or 15 sold their blood at least once," said Ms. Zhang, still stout but suffering from fevers and malaise. "And now we are all sick, with fever, diarrhea, boils."

As China begins to confront its AIDS problem, the emerging evidence of virtually blanket infections in villages like this one has become a huge wild card, whose proportions are undefined.

Officially, the Chinese government says there are only 22,517 people in a country of more than 1.2 billion who have been registered as H.I.V. positive -- mostly drug addicts and prostitutes -- although health officials estimate that 600,000 carry the virus.

But some Chinese doctors who have worked in the province said more than a million people had probably contracted the AIDS virus from selling blood here in Henan Province alone, where the problem is most severe. They add that while the sale of blood has died out in the most severely affected villages, it continues elsewhere to a lesser extent, both in Henan and other provinces.

Clearly, tiny Donghu is an extreme case, but it is not alone in its desperation. Donghu villagers said there were probably a number of seriously affected villages just in the same county, Xincai. In the last six months, reports from Chinese researchers and farmers have also revealed high levels of disease in villages in Henan's Weishi, Shangcai and Shenqiu counties.

http://www.racematters.org/aidsremotechinesevillage.htm

Blood Sharing? Dubious medical experiments always seem to be common in non-white countries…as do sudden and deadly infections!

Compairing AIDS in India, China and African countries to Europe and the US is like compairing apples and oranges. These countries don't have the medical care and medications for their people to take. Russia also has a bad AIDS problem, same reasons, poor health care and lack of medications.


AIDS wasn't even recognized until the mid 80's in the US so of course it wasn't a problem in pre-apartheid S. Africa.

This is an immune deficiency disease. It's probably been around for a lot longer than it's been recognized.

I included a link on a previous post but here are some cut outs:

1983: CDC issues warning about tainted blood supply
1985: US and Japan start testing blood supply
1986: Switzarland startes testing blood supply
1989: Haiti startes testing blood supply

As you can see alot of time passed before countries started testing their blood supples.

Compairing AIDS in India, China and African countries to Europe and the US is like compairing apples and oranges. These countries don't have the medical care and medications for their people to take. Russia also has a bad AIDS problem, same reasons, poor health care and lack of medications. AIDS wasn't even recognized until the mid 80's in the US so of course it wasn't a problem in pre-apartheid S. Africa.

We can always depend on you for the conservative spin Indya. Medical care helps to treat the infected, but it does nothing for HIV prevention! Regular checkups don’t prevent people from getting HIV. Lack of medical alone does not explain why the HIV infection rate in “Third World Countries” is 5 times that of the Western World. That is what right wing media outlets want people to believe; however, it really doesn’t make since. Again HIV is an STD…it isn’t an airborne illness. It has nothing to do with cleanliness. How does an STD greater effect certain people and not others (especially when there are no differences in sexual practices)? Also the apartheid era extended into the early 1990s, HIV/AIDS was very much on the world landscape by then. Uganda had already addressed the issue by that time.

We can always depend on you for the conservative spin Indya. Medical care helps to treat the infected, but it does nothing for HIV prevention! Regular checkups don’t prevent people from getting HIV. Lack of medical alone does not explain why the HIV infection rate in “Third World Countries” is 5 times that of the Western World. That is what right wing media outlets want people to believe; however, it really doesn’t make since. Again HIV is an STD…it isn’t an airborne illness. It has nothing to do with cleanliness. How does an STD greater effect certain people and not others (especially when there are no differences in sexual practices)? Also the apartheid era extended into the early 1990s, HIV/AIDS was very much on the world landscape by then. Uganda had already addressed the issue by that time.

People weren't really taking AIDS seriously until well into the 90's, it was still thought of as a gay disease. So, many straight people weren't wearing condoms.
No, medical care doesn't prevent the disease but medications can significantly prolong a persons life who is living with HIV/AIDS. Also having condoms easily available is another issue. People living in countries where the medications, drugs given to pregnant mothers to prevent the disease going to the newborn, and condoms aren't available are going to have a higher rate of infection then in countries where these things are available in every corner drug store.

We can always depend on you for the conservative spin Indya. Medical care helps to treat the infected, but it does nothing for HIV prevention! Regular checkups don’t prevent people from getting HIV. Lack of medical alone does not explain why the HIV infection rate in “Third World Countries” is 5 times that of the Western World. That is what right wing media outlets want people to believe; however, it really doesn’t make since. Again HIV is an STD…it isn’t an airborne illness. It has nothing to do with cleanliness. How does an STD greater effect certain people and not others (especially when there are no differences in sexual practices)? Also the apartheid era extended into the early 1990s, HIV/AIDS was very much on the world landscape by then. Uganda had already addressed the issue by that time.

You were doing fine right up to this point "Again HIV is an STD/It has nothing to do with cleanliness".It has been proven time and time again that it is a exchange of body fluids that transmitt this virus. Dentist/Doctors were rubber gloves, and use masks much more since AIDS/HIV, as do emergency medical workers, or anybody else in a position to have an inadvertant exchange. SO NO it is not an STD, sex is one of the most common methods true, but by far not the only one. The HIV virus has a very short live span outside a fluid environment.

The link you posted for China, did mention a very unsafe plasma pooling as being a major cause of the problem identified in the village did it not?

"They add that local governments are in part responsible. Often encouraged by local officials, many farmers here in Henan contracted H.I.V. in the 1990's after selling blood at government-owned collection stations, under a procedure that could return pooled and infected blood to donors. From that point, the virus has continued to spread through other routes because those officials have blocked research and education campaigns about H.I.V., which they consider an embarrassment."

Us ignorant country folk can read too " surprise surprise surprise " quoted from gomer pyle. usmc

You were doing fine right up to this point "Again HIV is an STD/It has nothing to do with cleanliness".It has been proven time and time again that it is a exchange of body fluids that transmitt this virus. Dentist/Doctors were rubber gloves, and use masks much more since AIDS/HIV, as do emergency medical workers, or anybody else in a position to have an inadvertant exchange. SO NO it is not an STD, sex is one of the most common methods true, but by far not the only one. The HIV virus has a very short live span outside a fluid environment.

The link you posted for china, did mention a very unsafe plasma pooling as being the major cause of the problem identified in that village did it not?

Good point havilandks,

No AIDS isn't an STD, here are a few ways to get the disease besides sex.

How it Spread?
You can get HIV from anyone who's infected, even if they don't look sick, even if they have not tested positive.
Most people get the HIV virus by
* Having sex with an infected person.
* Sharing a needle with someone who is infected
* Being born when the mother is infected, or drinking the breast milk of an
infected woman
* Getting a transfusion of blood from an infected blood donor
* Possible to catch HIV through oral sex, especially if you have open sores
in your mouth or have bleeding gums

You were doing fine right up to this point "Again HIV is an STD/It has nothing to do with cleanliness".It has been proven time and time again that it is a exchange of body fluids that transmitt this virus. Dentist/Doctors were rubber gloves, and use masks much more since AIDS/HIV, as do emergency medical workers, or anybody else in a position to have an inadvertant exchange. SO NO it is not an STD, sex is one of the most common methods true, but by far not the only one. The HIV virus has a very short live span outside a fluid environment. Us ignorant country folk can read too " surprise surprise surprise " quoted from gomer pyle. usmc

Havilandks I had no idea you were from the country, and made no insinuations that country folk are ignorant...that stigma you placed on yourself. I will say that I'm not "almost" correct in stating that HIV/AIDS is an STD. HIV is most certainly an STD! Just because HIV can be contracted in other ways, does not change its primary mode of transmission. Crabs is an STD, but you can catch it from sitting on an toilet seat after a person who has crabs used it. Still this doesn't change that Crabs is an STD. The primary mode of transmission of HIV/AIDS is supposedly unprotected sex. Blood transfussions & needle sharing are not the primary reasons listed for the widespread infection rate of HIV in Africa or India. In addition when I'm speaking of "cleanliness" I'm not talking about doctors using gloves in a hospital. I'm talking about clean water to drink & bath...sterilized dishes to eat on...uncontaminated food...clean sewage & garbage disposal. These types of conditions are responsible for higher rates of Typhoid Fever, and various flu viruses being more common in "third world countries" than the West! Again HIV is not being spread in Africa or India because of these factors. It supposedly is being spread through sex....sex alone does not explain how the numbers of HIV cases in Africa so greater outnumber America & Europe!

Havilandks I had no idea you were from the country, and made no insinuations that country folk are ignorant...that stigma you placed on yourself. I will say that I'm not "almost" correct in stating that HIV/AIDS is an STD. HIV is most certainly an STD! Just because HIV can be contracted in other ways, does not change its primary mode of transmission. Crabs is an STD, but you can catch it from sitting on an toilet seat after a person who has crabs used it. Still this doesn't change that Crabs is an STD. The primary mode of transmission of HIV/AIDS is supposedly unprotected sex. Blood transfussions & needle sharing are not the primary reasons listed for the widespread infection rate of HIV in Africa or India. In addition when I'm speaking of "cleanliness" I'm not talking about doctors using gloves in a hospital. I'm talking about clean water to drink & bath...sterilized dishes to eat on...uncontaminated food...clean sewage & garbage disposal. These types of conditions are responsible for higher rates of Typhoid Fever, and various flu viruses being more common in "third world countries" than the West! Again HIV is not being spread in Africa or India because of these factors. It supposedly is being spread through sex....sex alone does not explain how the numbers of HIV cases in Africa so greater outnumber America & Europe!
I have to say that the primary reason AIDS/HIV is spread so readily in Africa and India is lack of education or in other words ignorance.

In the US and Europe people are bombarded with information and images of aids since it was discovered. Unfortunatly you have large areas of Africa and India as well as China that have no access to this information hell some areas dont have a Phone let alone TV or Competant medical personel. In some parts you still have superstition being the only information available. There are even those who still believe that haveing sex with a virgin will cure AIDS. Once agian the reason it is becoming so widespread is ignorance. Not stupidity because if you dont know you cant act on it.

AIDS is Technicly a STD because there is no other classification for it. since its primary route of transmission is through "UNPROTECTED" sex it has thus been classified as an STD. However most STD can not be transmitted through blood transfusions, saliva, & needle sharing. Crabs is not a STD it is an infestation of body lice which is easly picked up by close contact with the person infested not to be confused with "infected"..

For a few reason as to why AIDS is spreading so quickly in underdeveloped countries please check out the following post

http://www.npr.org/healthscience/aids2004/?sourceCode=gaw

Kingpin

I have to say that the primary reason AIDS/HIV is spread so readily in Africa and India is lack of education or in other words ignorance.

There are people who are ignorant about HIV/AIDS in the good ole US of A! Africa, India, and China all have doctors & scientist to rival any we have in this country. "Ignorance" is not the primary reason 5.3 million South Africans, 5.1 million Indians, and a untold number of Chinese are believe to be infected with HIV!

Does it make sense that people from countries with high hiv counts, even if they themselves have tested negative, are not allowed to donate blood?

There are people who are ignorant about HIV/AIDS in the good ole US of A! Africa, India, and China all have doctors & scientist to rival any we have in this country. "Ignorance" is not the primary reason 5.3 million South Africans, 5.1 million Indians, and a untold number of Chinese are believe to be infected with HIV!


You are not seriously suggesting that the medical care available to the general public in Africa, China, and India is even remotely comparable to the US.

I whole heartedly concur that there are many fine physicians and scientest in these countries but what we are talking about is the general person on the street or in the bush for that matter..

You can have all the brilliant people you want but if the information and knowledge is not put forth to the general public than it has no bearing on the general population.

Do you just not understand that there are very severe differences in the undereducated of a developed country and the uneducated in a third world country. There are many parts of Africa, China, and India that more than meet the deffinition of a thrid world country.

The powerful and elite may have access to all the modernized medicine out there but the general citizen does not..... Or do you think otherwise????

Yes I will state that I feel ignorance is a major factor in the spread of AIDs in those countries. You have more than 70% of the population that is iliterate and lacking sanitary conditions

You want to point out to me they have as good of health care as we have in the US... Do you honestly belive that are do you hope for it?? I for one am under no dillusions of this. I do however hope and pray that someday everyone will have access to the same quality of care we have here in the US..


Kingpin

Does it make sense that people from countries with high hiv counts, even if they themselves have tested negative, are not allowed to donate blood?


Yes and no, You can test someone and in the time it takes to recieve the results, if that person has not been careful, they verywell could have become infected!!!

You are not seriously suggesting that the medical care available to the general public in Africa, China, and India is even remotely comparable to the US.

You are not seriously suggesting that only the US & Europe are aware of the transmission methods of HIV....oh wait you are! Might I suggest you go to these countries, meet the people & talk to them (instead of reading about them) before you make such assertions! As I said before, medical care helps people with HIV live longer. Medical care does NOT prevent people from contradicting HIV in the first place! Ignorance is not responsible for 5.3 million people contradicting HIV. If this was the case, then the HIV infection rate in the US would have been in comparable numbers, as roughly 10 years passed by, before people here realized that HIV wasn't just a gay white man's disease!

IVE READ FROM MANY SORCES, INCLUDING A POSTER AT DESTEE. THAT HIV DRUGS WEAKEN THE BODY, IN ACTUALITY MAKING YOU LESS RESISTANT TO AIDS.

You are not seriously suggesting that only the US & Europe are aware of the transmission methods of HIV....oh wait you are! Might I suggest you go to these countries, meet the people & talk to them (instead of reading about them) before you make such assertions! As I said before, medical care helps people with HIV live longer. Medical care does NOT prevent people from contradicting HIV in the first place! Ignorance is not responsible for 5.3 million people contradicting HIV. If this was the case, then the HIV infection rate in the US would have been in comparable numbers, as roughly 10 years passed by, before people here realized that HIV wasn't just a gay white man's disease!

I have been there and seen first hand. I have been on mission trips for medical and spiritual reasons.

I will tell you this there is hardley any advanced medical care in the central African and southern African regions outside the cities...

You are right that medical care helps people with AIDs live longer but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The primary purpose is to treat those infected and KEEP THOSE WHO ARE NOT INFECTED FREE OF INFECTION. You do this by EDUCATION. That is the reason that more medical care needs to be available...

You my friend should go and spend some time with the people that you so forcifuly defend (not just the ones with education in the cities)and I really think you have no idea what your talking about...

Yes your wife is African but tell me why exactly did she leave??? Instead of staying and building up and educating the people who have had no access to the information that is readily avialable here in the US..

Yes information is out there but if IT IS NOT PUT TO THE PUBLIC IT DOES NO GOOD.

You completley ignored havelandks when he pointed out that later on in the sight you posted it talked about the Chinise village having a tainted plasma pool. IT was the gov. fault the village had such a high rate of infection.

you my friend mistake the fact that the physicians and educated people know what is going on with AIDS and assume that since they know everyone else knows.

Do you know how to perform openheart surgery or a simple appendectomy?? Probably not, however our physicians do, but if they know than EVERYONE should know how to do this by your reasoning... Right???

You completley ignored when it was pointed out that the medications available to stop the transmission of AIDs to the infant from their mother has not been made available to the general public in these countries. So every woman who has a baby will inturn have an infected baby. This falls back on the Government of these countries....

You go right on believing in your fantasy world that the government cares about their people or that they are all so knowledgable about the transmission of these diseases.. I have been there first hand... Have you???

If you want information on how people are kept in ignorance about viruses just look up the current Marburg virus outbreak in Angola. The medical personell and helpers have been attacked for trying to stop the spread. The medical personel have been accused of tampering with bodies when all they are trying to do is stem the spread of a VERY VERY deadly virus.. Oh wait I'm sure everyone there knows just how it is spread since the doctors know.... Right???

IVE READ FROM MANY SORCES, INCLUDING A POSTER AT DESTEE. THAT HIV DRUGS WEAKEN THE BODY, IN ACTUALITY MAKING YOU LESS RESISTANT TO AIDS.

It is a form of chemo therapy, this does not only target the AIDS virus but it also flows through the body and at first will weaken other parts of the body. The same is true for most cancer chemo therapy agents.

Our medicine is progressing every day and in the near future you will have chemo drugs that "specificly" target a virus or cancer..

I have been there and seen first hand. I have been on mission trips for medical and spiritual reasons.

I will tell you this there is hardley any advanced medical care in the central African and southern African regions outside the cities...

You are right that medical care helps people with AIDs live longer but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The primary purpose is to treat those infected and KEEP THOSE WHO ARE NOT INFECTED FREE OF INFECTION. You do this by EDUCATION. That is the reason that more medical care needs to be available...

You my friend should go and spend some time with the people that you so forcifuly defend (not just the ones with education in the cities)and I really think you have no idea what your talking about...

Yes your wife is African but tell me why exactly did she leave??? Instead of staying and building up and educating the people who have had no access to the information that is readily avialable here in the US..

Yes information is out there but if IT IS NOT PUT TO THE PUBLIC IT DOES NO GOOD.

You completley ignored havelandks when he pointed out that later on in the sight you posted it talked about the Chinise village having a tainted plasma pool. IT was the gov. fault the village had such a high rate of infection.

you my friend mistake the fact that the physicians and educated people know what is going on with AIDS and assume that since they know everyone else knows.

Do you know how to perform openheart surgery or a simple appendectomy?? Probably not, however our physicians do, but if they know than EVERYONE should know how to do this by your reasoning... Right???

You completley ignored when it was pointed out that the medications available to stop the transmission of AIDs to the infant from their mother has not been made available to the general public in these countries. So every woman who has a baby will inturn have an infected baby. This falls back on the Government of these countries....

You go right on believing in your fantasy world that the government cares about their people or that they are all so knowledgable about the transmission of these diseases.. I have been there first hand... Have you???

If you want information on how people are kept in ignorance about viruses just look up the current Marburg virus outbreak in Angola. The medical personell and helpers have been attacked for trying to stop the spread. The medical personel have been accused of tampering with bodies when all they are trying to do is stem the spread of a VERY VERY deadly virus.. Oh wait I'm sure everyone there knows just how it is spread since the doctors know.... Right???

You are been to Africa for spiritual reasons...you know about Africans...but you needed to come to Destee.com to learn about the African American community (although you claim to have an African American mother)? Half-Negro please! If your identification & interpretation of the African community is similar to your interpretation of the African American community (which you've already admitted to having little connection with)...then you have absolutely no credibility!!!! Don't try to tell me what I do or don't know about Africans. You don't know who I am, what I have done, or where I have been!

You talk about open heart surgery, appendectomy, and the medical advances of the West as if this knowledge would help stop the spread of HIV in Africa! Just who is taking things out of context? I'm not talking about disease in general. I'm talking about HIV in particular! Just what do you do in the medical field Kingpin? Are you a doctor? Are you a nurse? Are you a medical researcher? Doctors and a nurses treat patients. They don't trace how illnesses originated. You don't know how AIDS became so widespread in Africa: whether it was a result of HIV tainted blood being given to hundreds of thousands of unspecting Africans or ignorant Africans not knowing how to put a condom on. Educate them Africans on HIV prevention? I have no problem with that! However the problem is, what if unprotected sex is not the primary way that Africans are becoming infected. This is what this thread is about my Neo-con friend!

. This is what this thread is about my Neo-con friend!


And the name calling begins!!!!

You are been to Africa for spiritual reasons!

My spritual reason are dealing with the Christian Faith, that is what I am. I have been to Africa, Central America and numerous carribian islands doing missionary as well as medical work..

My spritual reason are dealing with the Christian Faith, that is what I am. I have been to Africa, Central America and numerous carribian islands doing missionary as well as medical work..

A neo-con is what you are! Now you are telling that you were a Christian missionary? Well that changes everything....we all know what good works Christian Missionaries have done in Africa!!

Kingpin,

I believe what Panafrica is pondering is how the disease came about in the first place. While it is true that some countries may not have the access and/or knowledge to be able to practice safer sex, that is not what is being debated. White culture has made it seem that AIDS is something indigenous to Africa, because of its sexual practices. If this is true, why has it only appeared in recent years, first in the gay community, then among Africans? If AIDS was truly indigenous to Africans, then they wouldn't be on the planet today, because AIDS severely shortens your life span. And though it doesn't ruin your reproductive capacity, a child born with this diesease wouldn't be able to live long enough to be able to produce more children! So the whole 'oh, it's the dumb, sexually-obessed African's fault' excuse that the white world has put forth is illogical and incorrect.

With that being said, until there's a cure, it is true that everyone needs to be more responsible with their sexual practices. This means use a condom and stay monogamus. But, if this disease came about because of evil intentions, that needs to be acknowledged. For too long HIV/AIDS has become yet another excuse to denigrate Africa.

You talk about open heart surgery, appendectomy, and the medical advances of the West as if this knowledge would help stop the spread of HIV in Africa! !

You obiously dont understand what I was pointing out, If all our phisicians know how to perfom these studies and surgeries than by YOUR REASONING since certian people know this than everyone should know. That has been your position hasn't it?? Just because one person knows something than everyone should?? :bam:

Kingpin,

I believe what Panafrica is pondering is how the disease came about in the first place. While it is true that some countries may not have the access and/or knowledge to be able to practice safer sex, that is not what is being debated. White culture has made it seem that AIDS is something indigenous to Africa, because of its sexual practices. If this is true, why has it only appeared in recent years, first in the gay community, then among Africans? If AIDS was truly indigenous to Africans, then they wouldn't be on the planet today, because AIDS severely shortens your life span. And though it doesn't ruin your reproductive capacity, a child born with this diesease wouldn't be able to live long enough to be able to produce more children! So the whole 'oh, it's the dumb, sexually-obessed African's fault' excuse that the white world has put forth is illogical and incorrect.

With that being said, until there's a cure, it is true that everyone needs to be more responsible with their sexual practices. This means use a condom and stay monogamus. But, if this disease came about because of evil intentions, that needs to be acknowledged. For too long HIV/AIDS has become yet another excuse to denigrate Africa.

I ully understand this. What I am trying to point out is that the CONTINUED spread is due to poor education as to how it is spread. Pan doesnt seem to want to believe that there are still millions of people in this world who are still ignorant of how these viruses are spread. I said ignorant not stupid. People chose to be stupid but you dont chose to be ignorant.... :grouphug:

i fully understand this. What I am trying to point out is that the CONTINUED spread is due to poor education as to how it is spread. Pan doesnt seem to want to believe that there are still millions of people in this world who are still ignorant of how these viruses are spread. I said ignorant not stupid. People chose to be stupid but youdont chose to be ignorant.... :grouphug:

I seriously doubt that you fully understood this Kingpin as your entrance distracted from the subject (a favorite tactic of Neo-cons), and you have not acknowledged it until now!

I seriously doubt that you fully understood this Kingpin as your entrance distracted from the subject (a favorite tactic of Neo-cons), and you have not acknowledged it until now!


I disagree with your presumptions about the continued spread of AIDS in Africa and China, why is that a distraction??

I see that this is a discussion forum, people tend to disagree when discussing things, do they not???

There are many reasons for the continued spread of AIDS in poor undeveloped countries and most of those reasons can be put firmly at the feet of the Government leaders. These gov. didn't respond quickly to the threat of AIDS at the beginning, that's the problem, it got out of hand before they started caring about their people.

I disagree with your presumptions about the continued spread of AIDS in Africa and China, why is that a distraction??

There are many reasons for the continued spread of AIDS in poor undeveloped countries and most of those reasons can be put firmly at the feet of the Government leaders. These gov. didn't respond quickly to the threat of AIDS at the beginning, that's the problem, it got out of hand before they started caring about their people.

You distract by trying to change the subject! I do agree with you that there are many reasons (known and unknown) for the continued spread of AIDS in Africa and Asia. I also agree that their "government leaders" played a role, as did their affiliation with other governments. The US government also responded slowly to the AIDS epidemic. Does the Reagan Administration ring a bell? However HIV/AIDS did not spread in the US within the same time frame that it has spread in Africa and Asia. Despite what you are trying to portray, your medical background give you no more insight in this manner than it does me! Now Kingpin if someone close to me becomes infected with HIV, you'll be the first one I contact about which medicines they should take. However you have no insight about how this disease came to Africa or how it spread so rapidly! You went there to "convert the ignorant savages" & to put a band aid on their "boo boos"

You distract by trying to change the subject! I do agree with you that there are many reasons (known and unknown) for the continued spread of AIDS in Africa and Asia. I also agree that their "government leaders" played a role, as did their affiliation with other governments. The US government also responded slowly to the AIDS epidemic. Does the Reagan Administration ring a bell? However HIV/AIDS did not spread in the US within the same time frame that it has spread in Africa and Asia. Despite what you are trying to portray, your medical background give you no more insight in this manner than it does me! Now Kingpin if someone close to me becomes infected with HIV, you'll be the first one I contact about which medicines they should take. However you have no insight about how this disease came to Africa or how it spread so rapidly! You went there to "convert the ignorant savages" & to put a band aid on their "boo boos"

The bold statement is yours not mine so don't try passing it off as me by putting quotes around it. I went there to help, what have you done besides piss and moan, oh yes, and you have friends and family members who moved away from the problem instead of staying to help.

No one is changing the subject here. We're discussing AIDS in Africa, China and India.

I have no insight on the spread of AIDs in Africa and India?? Your the one who posted the sight about India, but neglected to read the entire article before you posted it. Remember the part about the tainted plasma pool, that the gov. knew about. Gee, do you think that the gov. over there may have been neglectful to their own people??

I'll not argue that the US was slow to recognize the epidemic, but they did start testing the blood supply here, Japan and Switzerland around 1985, Haiti didn't start testing their's until 1989, WHY did they take so long. I'm not sure when African countries or India and China started testing theirs, but it looks like the gov. in those countries were neglectful, not the US.

As to why there is still a high number of new infections in India, China and Africa. I still state that it's because of lack of information about the spread of the disease and prevention. Many in those countries lack credible information, condoms and medications (to prevent the disease spreading to newborns).

Your trying to start a consperacy theory here and it's not holding water. So you've fallen back to making personnal attacks.

It is a form of chemo therapy, this does not only target the AIDS virus but it also flows through the body and at first will weaken other parts of the body. The same is true for most cancer chemo therapy agents.

Our medicine is progressing every day and in the near future you will have chemo drugs that "specificly" target a virus or cancer..

king-if our "drugs are prgressing" why are americans in some of the worst health, if not the worst than the rest of the "industrialized world". we have some of if not the highest rates of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, obesity to name a few.

our drugs do not cure, the supress. meaning the sickness stays in the body while the syptoms are smothere with pharmaceuticals causing a miriad of harmful side effects.

my uncle died in 2004 from cancer. chemo was administered which caused his leg to be amputated, and it didnt stop the cancer from spreading to his brain.

our medical students could learn a lot from "third world" doctors. many are finmimg that out daily.

It is a form of chemo therapy, this does not only target the AIDS virus but it also flows through the body and at first will weaken other parts of the body. The same is true for most cancer chemo therapy agents.

Our medicine is progressing every day and in the near future you will have chemo drugs that "specificly" target a virus or cancer..

king-if our "drugs are progressing" why are americans in some of the worst health, if not the worst than the rest of the "industrialized world". we have some of, if not the highest rates of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, obesity to name a few.

our drugs do not cure, they supress. meaning the sickness stays in the body while the syptoms are smothered with pharmaceuticals causing a miriad of harmful side effects.

my uncle died in 2004 from cancer. chemo was administered which caused his leg to be amputated, and it didnt stop the cancer from spreading to his brain.

our medical students could learn a lot from "third world" doctors. many are finding that out daily.

king-if our "drugs are progressing" why are americans in some of the worst health, if not the worst than the rest of the "industrialized world". we have some of, if not the highest rates of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, obesity to name a few.

our drugs do not cure, they supress. meaning the sickness stays in the body while the syptoms are smothered with pharmaceuticals causing a miriad of harmful side effects.

my uncle died in 2004 from cancer. chemo was administered which caused his leg to be amputated, and it didnt stop the cancer from spreading to his brain.

our medical students could learn a lot from "third world" doctors. many are finding that out daily.

Of the 4 you mentioned 3 are lifestyle or genetics, Obesity is normally the fault of the person or their parents, example suing McDonalds because you choose to eat super size 5 days a week, Heart Disease again lifestyle, and diet. Diabetes genetic and lifestyle, My grandmother died from this in the 50's, not the doctors fault, she did not follow either the diet or the insulin regime. Some types of cancer are also proving to be life style caused not all but some. example skin cancer's cause is by far caused more by sun and UV than anything else

If our doctors are so bad and the meds are bad then why do so many people from other countries come to the US for treatment? My oldest daughter lives in Finland(social medical) she waited for 2 months for a foot doctor, routinely her mother in law waits a month for her health screens, here you can get either in a week.
And the previous comment about Kingpin on his being a nurse? is pure bullsh**. My 3rd daughter is a certified ICU Trama Nurse, and I believe she would disagree with the idea that all she does is hold the hand of the patient, because normally on her turf if she can't help you medicaly your probably gonna die.

But no lets make everything a conspiracy, then we can put the blame somewhere else. Still think if I was going to target a genetic group I would be a little more specific with my weapon, maybe trigger it off of sickle cell anemia or something. But then again if the discussions don't support my theory I can call you a neo-con.

If I remember the one if the supposed theory's on HIV is a viruse that crossed species? much like bird flu in china. Another was polio shots in the 1950's. Could have been held in a very small area of Africa due to colonial restrictions on travel. See back on topic.

Here are a couple of articles about AIDS in India mainly talking about the apathy and lack of information available to people in that country. These articles are from the BBC. Clearly the people in India and China are suffering because of there governments apathy on the subject.



For years many in India ignored the growing threat of Aids. Many simply could not imagine it was something that could affect them.

One always hears about Aids and how it's this big problem - I think it's just hype

Sanjay Nirupam
Shiv Sena party
Down a crowded street in the heart of Bombay is the Unison clinic, one of the few in the city that deals with HIV patients.

Ram Kewar is on one of his regular visits - he is among 20 HIV-infected people who come here every day. He was infected by the virus a few years ago and since then has passed it on to members of his family.
He says he had never even heard of the disease, far less about how it can be transmitted.


This article is about China:

Until last year the government refused to admit it even had an Aids problem.

Then the United Nations released a report predicting 10 million Aids infections in China by the end of the decade if the government did not change its attitude.

Finally Beijing woke up. Mr Wen has taken the lead, appearing on national television with Aids patients at a Beijing hospital, and making it clear that Aids is now a top priority.

Nigeria is at least making progress and hoping to get medication to more people:

Currently 14,000 Nigerian get subsided drugs but this year the number will rise to 100,000, Eyitayo Lambo said.

Nigeria, Africa's most populous nation, began providing anti-retrovirals in 2002, through 25 treatment centres.

But they still only meet the needs of a small fraction of the estimated four million HIV-positive Nigerians.

The bold statement is yours not mine so don't try passing it off as me by putting quotes around it. I went there to help, what have you done besides piss and moan, oh yes, and you have friends and family members who moved away from the problem instead of staying to help.

No one is changing the subject here. We're discussing AIDS in Africa, China and India.

I have no insight on the spread of AIDs in Africa and India?? Your the one who posted the sight about India, but neglected to read the entire article before you posted it. Remember the part about the tainted plasma pool, that the gov. knew about. Gee, do you think that the gov. over there may have been neglectful to their own people??

Why would I post an article that I haven't read? Those types of ignorant statements can only come from a neo-Con such as yourself Kingpin. I will warn you only once! Do not talk about my family, which you know absolutely nothing about. My wife's family are exiles from her native country. My father in-law has had no less than 3 execution attempts because of his attempts to help his country. His collegue is currently missing (believed dead) as a result of his efforts. Maybe you are unaware of these types of situations because your mother was too busy having the white man's babies & assimilating into white culture, that she didn't have time (or didn't care) to teach you about black culture!! More than likely you can care less, because the white man hasn't told you these things are important. No the white man told you to go to Africa and convert them heathen savages, so like a good little soldier that is what you go and do. For the record tainted plasma pools doesn't disprove what I'm talking about. My entire point is that I believe tainted blood given in hospitals is how HIV spread so rapidly in Africa. I was giving examples of how tainted blood has created widespread infections in other areas. All the article says is that these people were infected through tainted blood. What is missing is where this blood came from! That is the $1 million dollar question!

Why would I post an article that I haven't read? Those types of ignorant statements can only come from a neo-Con such as yourself Kingpin. I will warn you only once! Do not talk about my family, which you know absolutely nothing about. My wife's family are exiles from her native country. My father in-law has had no less than 3 execution attempts because of his attempts to help his country. His collegue is currently missing (believed dead) as a result of his efforts. Maybe you are unaware of these types of situations because your mother was too busy having the white man's babies & assimilating into white culture, that she didn't have time (or didn't care) to teach you about black culture!! More than likely you can care less, because the white man hasn't told you these things are important. No the white man told you to go to Africa and convert them heathen savages, so like a good little soldier that is what you go and do. For the record tainted plasma pools doesn't disprove what I'm talking about. My entire point is that I believe tainted blood given in hospitals is how HIV spread so rapidly in Africa. I was giving examples of how tainted blood has created widespread infections in other areas. All the article says is that these people were infected through tainted blood. What is missing is where this blood came from! That is the $1 million dollar question!
Are you personnaly attacking me. I thought this was forbidden on Destee.com or do I need to point you to the relevant thread...

Are you personnaly attacking me. I thought this was forbidden on Destee.com or do I need to point you to the relevant thread...

Since you saw fit to talk about my wife (misquoting & misinterpreting things I've said in previous post), I was postive you wouldn't mind me doing the same.

s. Maybe you are unaware of these types of situations because your mother was too busy having the white man's babies & assimilating into white culture, that she didn't have time (or didn't care) to teach you about black culture!! More than likely you can care less, because the white man hasn't told you these things are important. No the white man told you to go to Africa and convert them heathen savages, so like a good little soldier that is what you go and do. !


You have the gall to tell me not to question your family when all I have done is ask you WHY they left. I have never called into question any member of your family or there integrity. Yet here we are with you purposfully slandering my mother when you have no idea what you are talking about..... You also pull into play my religion... I have respect for all types of religion obviously you cant say the same... You my friend have a VERY VERY large chip on your shoulder and someday someone will definitly knock it off of there.....

I have nenver refered to any African as a heathan savage You my friend have said this not once but twice.. Who has the problem here.

This is way off topic and I wll not discuss any further personnal business with you now or in the future. You are not worth anyones time let alone mine

Since you saw fit to talk about my wife (misquoting & misinterpreting things I've said in previous post), I was postive you wouldn't mind me doing the same.
You thought wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never slandered anyone in your family.... :whip:

You have the gall to tell me not to question your family when all I have done is ask you WHY they left. I have never called into question any member of your family or there integrity. Yet here we are with you purposfully slandering my mother when you have no idea what you are talking about..... You also pull into play my religion... I have respect for all types of religion obviously you cant say the same... You my friend have a VERY VERY large chip on your shoulder and someday someone will definitly knock it off of there.....I have nenver refered to any African as a heathan savage You my friend have said this not once but twice.. Who has the problem here. This is way off topic and I wll not discuss any further personnal business with you now or in the future. You are not worth anyones time let alone mine

Kingpin you have no credibility on this website. Your claims to have been an African Missionary are new. Nothing you have expressed before this thread gives any indication of that. What I do know about you is that you are bi-racial raised in a white community, and know nothing about black people. I'm not misquoting you, you've said this yourself:

my mother is black and my father is white so I guess by your reasoning that makes me a "what".Does this explain some of my views?? yes it does I have grown up in a predominatly white community so are my experiences differnt than yours??? Yes!!I will admitt that I have come accross a little strong and if I have offended anyone I am sorry.I have not experienced the overt racism that a lot of you have so I am not as guarded as some of you..

http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31570&page=12&pp=10

Do you serious expect people to believe that you are aware of the conditions, culture, and beliefs of Africans...when you don't even know about Blacks in your own country (which is half of your ancestory). Everything you have written about Africa within this forum consistently paints them as ignorant people who need to be better educated. Now that you want to discredit me, you are trying to portray yourself as a champion of Africa? I don't think so my friend, I'm not buying it. I remember some time ago brother JamesfrmPhilly told you that if you want to learn about black people you need to both shut your mouth and open your mind. It is quite obvious that you haven't opened your mind. However, I will be content with you shutting your mouth!

Of the 4 you mentioned 3 are lifestyle or genetics, Obesity is normally the fault of the person or their parents, example suing McDonalds because you choose to eat super size 5 days a week, Heart Disease again lifestyle, and diet. Diabetes genetic and lifestyle, My grandmother died from this in the 50's, not the doctors fault, she did not follow either the diet or the insulin regime. Some types of cancer are also proving to be life style caused not all but some. example skin cancer's cause is by far caused more by sun and UV than anything else

If our doctors are so bad and the meds are bad then why do so many people from other countries come to the US for treatment? My oldest daughter lives in Finland(social medical) she waited for 2 months for a foot doctor, routinely her mother in law waits a month for her health screens, here you can get either in a week.
And the previous comment about Kingpin on his being a nurse? is pure bullsh**. My 3rd daughter is a certified ICU Trama Nurse, and I believe she would disagree with the idea that all she does is hold the hand of the patient, because normally on her turf if she can't help you medicaly your probably gonna die.

But no lets make everything a conspiracy, then we can put the blame somewhere else. Still think if I was going to target a genetic group I would be a little more specific with my weapon, maybe trigger it off of sickle cell anemia or something. But then again if the discussions don't support my theory I can call you a neo-con.

If I remember the one if the supposed theory's on HIV is a viruse that crossed species? much like bird flu in china. Another was polio shots in the 1950's. Could have been held in a very small area of Africa due to colonial restrictions on travel. See back on topic.

i know what causes these illnesses. Cancer? could be life style or pollution, contanminated food and water, power lines and radiation. recent studies say the fish are not safe to eat. Lets not forget aids is a problem in the u.s. as well!

the point is our medicine cures very little,much of it only covers up symptoms. of course their are good and bad drugs. there are many reasons people come here from other countries for treatment. neither u nor i know them all, for that matter tell me why doctors educated at our "finest institutions" travel to other countries to learn alternative ways of healing. many countries have pros and cons of medicine. how bout the high prices of insurance and rx in the u.s. people travel to many western countries for hmedical help not just the u.s. many cancer patients in the u.s. travel to europe , asia, south america for treatment. so your point is pointless.

what i do know is the fact that this country as well as europeans abroad have engaged in bio warfare for centuries.

bio warfare doesn't have to be a conspiracy, its just warfare. conspiracy is the trivial name given to take credit from investigation or hide the truth.

btw the rest of ur post are comments i made, be sure your responding to the right person.