I was just wondering if anyone else felt the same way, but as a Black male I find it hard to find a female counter part who is as passionant about pan-africanism or just African people as a whole as I am. Im not saying that the sistas are not out their but it just seems like americanization has had a major effect on both male and female Black psyche. I was just wondering if anyone else wheither male or female found it hard to find someone that shares the same passion for the mother continent.

i agree, however the internet is a valuable tool which allows us to commincate with fellow pan africanists who feel the same all around the world...

the internet is a valuable tool which allows us to commincate with fellow pan africanists who feel the same all around the world...

Yes it is! Also if one is having difficulty finding a woman that is interested in PanAfricanism & Black Culture...might I suggest dating African or Caribbean women.

Brother Panafrica I am here!

You are quite right. I think it is hard to find sisters who give priority to black people. In the 3 political organizations I joined I am the only woman! There is no woman but me in our meetings. At first I felt awkward, then it drives me to be more vocal and domineering. Many Black Nationalists brothers could conveniently fail to support my point of views, this has been a fact. They are obviously chauvinist brothers out there that make sisters uncomfortable. Another thing about me, I am highly driven by male energy. My personality has always been outspoken and even quarrelsome at times (smile). As a result I started to join African Revolutionary parties or groups early in life. I hate, and will fight against black people injustice anywhere.

Perhaps Black Pride is completely absent in most black women because of the patriarchal societies we live in. Sexism thrives to severely reduce feminine importance and voice. We can’t ignore that.

Yes it is! Also if one is having difficulty finding a woman that is interested in PanAfricanism & Black Culture...might I suggest dating African or Caribbean women.
What if you make a conscious decision to get involved with an African or a Carribean black woman that wants nothing to do with the uplifting of our people?? What would you do? A pro-African black man cannot make such a choice, right?

I know I couldn't date anyone who lacks African Nationalism philosophy, period.

What if you make a conscious decision to get involved with an African or a Carribean black woman that wants nothing to do with the uplifting of our people?? What would you do? A pro-African black man cannot make such a choice, right? I know I couldn't date anyone who lacks African Nationalism philosophy, period.

Unfortunately, the assimilation mentality exist in every black community throughout the Diaspora. However I would expect that anyone seeking to date a sister from Africa or the Carribean...would also talk with her to see where her head is at (as one should with any person they seek to date). I could tell the difference between sister Kwango_Likemba & Iman within 5 minutes!

I think it is hard to find sisters who give priority to black people. Perhaps Black Pride is completely absent in most black women because of the patriarchal societies we live in. Sexism thrives to severely reduce feminine importance and voice. We can’t ignore that.

It is hard to find sisters who give priority to black people, and it is becoming increasingly difficult in this country. Still these sisters exist (you are an example of one, as is my wife), so brothers need not despair! Although I have to disagree with you sister Kwango_Likemba that the absence of black pride is a result of sexist, patriarchal societies. I would think that increase of assimilation, the presence of white media, and education within black communities plays a greater role. This is not to say that sexism does not play a part, but I don't think it is a primary factor. I'll add more later, I need to get ready for work!

Thank you all for your input. Yeah, i started joining organizations and geeting involved and I have also noticed that there are very few women active on the grass roots level or even on the major level of the struggle. Yeah i guess the majority of Black people are assimulated into western ideas. I thought that I wouldnt have this problem since I attend an HBCU but here it seems like everyone is assimulated....the irony.

Thank you all for your input. Yeah, i started joining organizations and geeting involved and I have also noticed that there are very few women active on the grass roots level or even on the major level of the struggle. Yeah i guess the majority of Black people are assimulated into western ideas. I thought that I wouldnt have this problem since I attend an HBCU but here it seems like everyone is assimulated....the irony.

First let me officially welcome you to Destee.com wildchild510 (I neglected to do so earlier). Second let me state that one's primary goal upon joining Black Nationalist/PanAfricanist organizations should be to solve the issues of our people, not to met a potential mate. This being said there are many Black women who are community oriented & give priority to the black man. Indeed this website alone is full of sisters like this, including the founder & owner, Destee! These sisters are not as easy to spot as the assimulated ones, but they are out there, you just have to look. If there are African/Caribbean restaurants in your area, eat there. Find some African centered clubs, movies, festivals, etc. It is best to meet someone in a relaxed environment anyway!

I could tell the difference between sister Kwango_Likemba & Iman within 5 minutes!
Seriously tell me brothers Panafrica and wildchild510 a very gorgeous African woman like Iman, but perhaps a miseducated soul, is not worth it? Or a beautiful woman with the wrong mindset is definitely a turn-off for you both?

It is hard to find sisters who give priority to black people, and it is becoming increasingly difficult in this country.
Although I have to disagree with you sister Kwango_Likemba that the absence of black pride is a result of sexist, patriarchal societies. I would think that increase of assimilation, the presence of white media, and education within black communities plays a greater role. This is not to say that sexism does not play a part, but I don't think it is a primary factor.
As it is now in Africa, in the Congo at least, it’s worse! Our brothers and sisters there are not interested in PAN AFRICANISM or SELF KNOWLEDGE. Add to that the lack of sharing information, education, teaching how to protect ourselves, strive in life, etc... Where there is no equality, there is less emancipation agenda for women but more male power ingrained with male values and point of view. Therefore I think women are many ways more disadvantaged in Africa than in rich nation, and that's why sisters in the Motherland are less exposed to Black Nationalism and Panafrican positions in the home or elsewhere.

Still these sisters exist (you are an example of one, as is my wife), so brothers need not despair!
I completely agree with you. Panafrican/Black Nationalist sisters are out there. They are educated and dedicated! And I believe we will see them more when black women will be treated better by black/African males in general.

ms Likembe, I hope that we are alright now? I agree with you on your very last statement.

Wild

I was just wondering if anyone else felt the same way, but as a Black male I find it hard to find a female counter part who is as passionant about pan-africanism or just African people as a whole as I am. Im not saying that the sistas are not out their but it just seems like americanization has had a major effect on both male and female Black psyche. I was just wondering if anyone else wheither male or female found it hard to find someone that shares the same passion for the mother continent.

I know how you feel bruh....

It seems that most of our intelligent and concious sistaz aren't making themselves available enough. They are too concentrated on work, studies, or just seeking general knowledge than to involve themselves in relationships or looking for men.

It appears that the women most available and sexually approachable are the least concious and could care less about the black struggle.


Another thing you have to understand is unlike most men.....most of the time when a woman has a man (good or bad) she stops looking and you have to actually GET her attention. And unfortunately most of our good concious sistaz are already claimed by a fast moving brutha.

It appears that the women most available and sexually approachable are the least concious and could care less about the black struggle. Another thing you have to understand is unlike most men.....most of the time when a woman has a man (good or bad) she stops looking and you have to actually GET her attention. And unfortunately most of our good concious sistaz are already claimed by a fast moving brutha.

This is true! The lesson to be learned from this is that if you find a concious sister, don't play around with her! We have all heard that good men are hard to find, well despite popular opinion, good women aren't in plentiful supply either!

Brutha Pan

Peace and love....

This is true! The lesson to be learned from this is that if you find a concious sister, don't play around with her! We have all heard that good men are hard to find, well despite popular opinion, good women aren't in plentiful supply either!

Yes, but.....

Unfortunatly, a while back I decided to no longer make "conciousness" a prerequisit for me to hook up with a sista.

Ofcourse she has to be intelligent and have a measure of self-respect, but I had to reconcile with the fact that many women just aren't that political.

Plus, it's hard to find a good concious sista who ain't feminist, do you know what I'm saying?

Unfortunatly, a while back I decided to no longer make "conciousness" a prerequisit for me to hook up with a sista. Ofcourse she has to be intelligent and have a measure of self-respect, but I had to reconcile with the fact that many women just aren't that political.

I suppose people have to compromise sometimes. Intelligience & self-respect (which is also lacking in too many women) are two absolutely necessary qualities as well. In addition these traits can easy grow into conciousness if she is with the right brother!

Wow, this is such an interesting conversation, in hateful boston, where I live, we have an organization called "Sisters of Ma'at". In that group at least five sisters are single , child bearing age, good jobs, independent, and they can't find nice Black men like you guys. I am sure there are sisters like that in your perspective cities.


Don't give up. God, the lesser gods, and the Ancestors will bless you. Keep working for Africans and looking, she will appear. It is bound to happen.

Wow, this is such an interesting conversation, in hateful boston, where I live, we have an organization called "Sisters of Ma'at". In that group at least five sisters are single , child bearing age, good jobs, independent, and they can't find nice Black men like you guys. I am sure there are sisters like that in your perspective cities..........
let's say there are males and females who are looking.
how do they connect?
do nationalists ever do any social events?
any meet and greats?

might be a plan.

i have heard more than once the cry of righteous people for mates.
isn't it time that someone do something proactive to get every one hooked up?
might even be a chance for some one to make some money.

let's say there are males and females who are looking.
how do they connect?
do nationalists ever do any social events?
any meet and greats?

might be a plan.

i have head more than once the cry of righteous people for mates.
isn't it time that someone do something proactive to get every one hooked up?
might even be a chance for some one to make some money.

The Internet would be a good vice.

Anyone know or willing to create a Panafrican dating site? :)

The Internet would be a good vice. Anyone know or willing to create a Panafrican dating site? :)

I've suggested that we do this on Destee.

we do need a way for these brothers and sisters to meet each other.
maybe it should be linked to premium membership?

we do need a way for these brothers and sisters to meet each other. maybe it should be linked to premium membership?

That is a novel idea brother James!

Hey, Destee, what do you think? I will do what I can on my end.

Man, if you want to meet concious sistaz just go to a book store or slam poetry contest.

Most concious sistaz are too smart to hook up with people the meet on the web anyway so it's best to meet them the old fashioned way.

Man, if you want to meet concious sistaz just go to a book store or slam poetry contest. Most concious sistaz are too smart to hook up with people the meet on the web anyway so it's best to meet them the old fashioned way.

I don't discount meeting folks the old fashioned way, but you might be surprised at how many would be open to meeting over the net.

I remember this idea about, a sort of singles-meeting forum being kicked around a few months ago…it seemed to have died. I think sister Toylin was pushing it.

All the conscious sisters out here who can’t find a conscious man…and now I see it goes both ways. Man, the Pan African and African centered community should be the last ones with this problem…I always find this phenomenon interesting.

I hear what you’re saying Brother Pan about continental African and Caribbean sisters, but what about the conscious sisters already here and just like those at Destee? If the brothers focused right here, I think they probably would have more than enough to choose from. I'm sure somebody has something in common at this forum...lol

Brother Pan, almost every cultural function I go to, Sisters without a Brother, are usually wall to wall…usually way outnumbering the brothers…whatz goin’ on brothers?… do our sister have it that bad, as far as conscious thinking and progressive Pan Africanism?

I remember this idea about, a sort of singles-meeting forum being kicked around a few months ago…it seemed to have died. I think sister Toylin was pushing it.

All the conscious sisters out here who can’t find a conscious man…and now I see it goes both ways. Man, the Pan African and African centered community should be the last ones with this problem…I always find this phenomenon interesting.

I hear what you’re saying Brother Pan about continental African and Caribbean sisters, but what about the conscious sisters already here and just like those at Destee? If the brothers focused right here, I think they probably would have more than enough to choose from. I'm sure somebody has something in common at this forum...lol

Brother Pan, almost every cultural function I go to, Sisters without a Brother, are usually wall to wall…usually way outnumbering the brothers…whatz goin’ on brothers?… do our sister have it that bad, as far as conscious thinking and progressive Pan Africanism?

Brother SunShip:

The idea died down because not enough people responded to it. We have over 8000 members, and I believe only 20 or so gave a thumbs up to the idea. I have no doubt you see conscious sisters without a man (and who are looking for one), I see them to. I also see conscious brothers without a woman. However I rarely see them in the same place! I do think this website could help bring some of these people together. I see no reason why sister Pdiane's female friends could not get to meet brother Wildchild or Ralfa'il. There is no guarantee that these meetings would be a match, but at the same time you never know.

Pan

I see no reason why sister Pdiane's female friends could not get to meet brother Wildchild or Ralfa'il

Ha ha ha haa....

I don't want to end up in a situation like Chris Tucker did in Friday thinking I'm talking getting with a sista who looks like Janet Jackson... :flowers:

and she shows up looking more like Freddy Jackson (or Freddy Sandford). :jawdrop:


Nahhhhhhh bruh!

I gots to meet my squeezes the old fashioned way by first making that eye contact, then the hello, then dropping a little science and seeing where it leads me.

I've met a few interesting women in the internet though.

Problem is, it's hard to tell friend from foe.

Personally, I've given up on trying to pursue African-American females.........The conscious sisters always seem to end up with "thug" type brothers.

And I find there to be far too much conflict of interest and lifestyle with the non-conscious ones......Issues with religion/spirituality, diet, activities, and overall ways of thinking.

I've decided that a woman from Africa, the Caribbean, or somewhere else is the woman for me.

I don't have a problem meeting a woman on-line, as long as she is sincere and honest.

Frankly, it's going to be difficult meeting a lady in another part of the world without the internet.

hahaha, yeah i agree Ralfa'il . I dont wana end up meeting no prune. Maybe someone should create a Pan african dating website or even host it on Destee.com. We should try and make this happen.ONE

Personally, I've given up on trying to pursue African-American females.........The conscious sisters always seem to end up with "thug" type brothers. And I find there to be far too much conflict of interest and lifestyle with the non-conscious ones......Issues with religion/spirituality, diet, activities, and overall ways of thinking. I've decided that a woman from Africa, the Caribbean, or somewhere else is the woman for me.

I think all women in every culture has a fascination with "cool" guys like the Singer, Athlete, etc. However the "thug" appeal is definately an American thing. Most foreign women like men who are honest & hard working....men who will make good Husbands & Fathers. I haven't ever seen an African woman (born and raised in Africa) singing, "I Want A Soulja"!

I remember this idea about, a sort of singles-meeting forum being kicked around a few months ago…it seemed to have died. I think sister Toylin was pushing it.

All the conscious sisters out here who can’t find a conscious man…and now I see it goes both ways. Man, the Pan African and African centered community should be the last ones with this problem…I always find this phenomenon interesting.

I hear what you’re saying Brother Pan about continental African and Caribbean sisters, but what about the conscious sisters already here and just like those at Destee? If the brothers focused right here, I think they probably would have more than enough to choose from. I'm sure somebody has something in common at this forum...lol

Brother Pan, almost every cultural function I go to, Sisters without a Brother, are usually wall to wall…usually way outnumbering the brothers…whatz goin’ on brothers?… do our sister have it that bad, as far as conscious thinking and progressive Pan Africanism?


Your last paragraph is very interesting, because every metaphysical conference I go to, the brothas out number the women almost 3 to 1. It would great if we could get the 2 schools of thought to merge.

Wildchild

Respect

Man, when I lived in Michigan all I did was just drive up to Toronto or Montreal and I met all the healthy positive minded sistaz I wanted.

But now for me..."black conciousness" isn't a prerequisit for a relationship.

I don't even look for it anymore because even when I find a concious sista, she's usually on the Erykah Badu tip ultra anti-everything to the point that if we get too deep into politics we'll usually end up clashing.

As long as she's soft and doesn't have any violent "tales from the hood" stories or boyfriends locked up in jail...she's concious enough for me.



Sunny

All the conscious sisters out here who can’t find a conscious man…and now I see it goes both ways. Man, the Pan African and African centered community should be the last ones with this problem…I always find this phenomenon interesting.
Problem is brutha, many of these concious sistaz are also very feminist and are angry at men for what they've seen and experienced in life.

Not just white men....ALL men.

Many have a deep seated anger, distrust, and resentment and see any man with sex on his mind as evil and exploitive.

Some of their feeling is justified, but still this the reason why a lot of bruthaz would rather just grab a freak and get on....

They don't want to deal with the drama of having to explain nature.

I don't even look for it anymore because even when I find a concious sista, she's usually on the Erykah Badu tip ultra anti-everything to the point that if we get too deep into politics we'll usually end up clashing.

As long as she's soft and doesn't have any violent "tales from the hood" stories or boyfriends locked up in jail...she's concious enough for me.




A brother, I like Erykah Badu..lol but seriously, I see your point.

What I've notice is that the "few" conscious sisters here in L.A are either feminist, taken (many of them are with "thugs"), or with European men. But check this, I somewhat notice that many unconscious sisters have found some interest in conscious brothers..I have even been approached by a few "thug"-girls. I think that it's because we're different from their usual dating choice, "the souljah" but "the revolutionary" sparks a curiousity in their unconscious mind.

I was discussing this with some brothers in my organization and many suggested that maybe we should consider taking these sisters under our wings and teach them the knowledge of self like PanAfrica stated....That is if we're willing to be patient with them..


Peace..

Destee briefly touched on this subject in her "Are Latinos Africans?" thread, but I would like to outright ask how people would feel about dating black people from different countries? It is no secret that African American men & women have had some difficulties in recent years in terms of what we expect from one another, and dating prospects within the African American community. Indeed there have been numerous radioshows and magazine articles in Essence, Sister-to-Sister, Ebony, Black Male, etc, on this subject. Typical in these debates will be statistics showing the number of African American men in prisons, the number of homosexuals in the African American community; single mothers raising children without the support of any male figure; the ratio of educated black women compared to that of educated black men; and arguments about the so-called shortage of black males.

In almost all of these debates, choosing to date different cultures is a proposed solution to the perceived shortage of desirable dating prospects in the African American community. By different cultures, the authors and participants of these debates are refering to different races: Meaning Whites, Hispanics, and Asians. However, it is not necessary to go outside of the race to explore different cultures and attitudes towards dating, family, and male-female relations.

Black people are literally all over the world. Occupying over 40 different countries in Africa alone, as well as countries in Europe, the Caribbean, South America, Canada, and Asia. Each country has its own unique culture, beliefs, and value system. Therefore the attitudes and social structure that many African Americans believe to be representative of black people in general, are in reality unique to African Americans, not blacks across the Diaspora. One example to illustrate this is the high number of single mother families among African Americans is unique to blacks in this country. Africans generally don't have this problem, as African men strongly believe in taking care of their kids (in some parts of Nigeria if a man leaves his wife, he takes the kids with him).

It is easier to relate with someone of our own race rather than someone of a different race (no matter where they come from). It will be beneficial to the black community to look towards our sistas & brothas in the Diaspora before we seek to date outside the race.

I'm sooooooooooo glad I'm retired. :boring:

I'm sooooooooooo glad I'm retired. :boring:

I'm not retired, but I wouldn't want to be single again!

Your last paragraph is very interesting, because every metaphysical conference I go to, the brothas out number the women almost 3 to 1. It would great if we could get the 2 schools of thought to merge.


Brother Sekhemu, we may be getting at the core of the issue here...because brother, I never hardly saw sisters at any "real" Jazz concerts either or the Jazz section of the record store...

Brother, do you think the sisters are not as conscious or cultured, as they want every one to believe they are??!! :confused::confused:..... :jawdrop:......:D

Sunny

Problem is brutha, many of these concious sistaz are also very feminist and are angry at men for what they've seen and experienced in life.

Not just white men....ALL men.

Many have a deep seated anger, distrust, and resentment and see any man with sex on his mind as evil and exploitive.

Some of their feeling is justified, but still this the reason why a lot of bruthaz would rather just grab a freak and get on....

They don't want to deal with the drama of having to explain nature.

I respect your sentiments Ralphy

Destee briefly touched on this subject in her "Are Latinos Africans?" thread, but I would like to outright ask how people would feel about dating black people from different countries? It is no secret that African American men & women have had some difficulties in recent years in terms of what we expect from one another, and dating prospects within the African American community. Indeed there have been numerous radioshows and magazine articles in Essence, Sister-to-Sister, Ebony, Black Male, etc, on this subject. Typical in these debates will be statistics showing the number of African American men in prisons, the number of homosexuals in the African American community; single mothers raising children without the support of any male figure; the ratio of educated black women compared to that of educated black men; and arguments about the so-called shortage of black males.

In almost all of these debates, choosing to date different cultures is a proposed solution to the perceived shortage of desirable dating prospects in the African American community. By different cultures, the authors and participants of these debates are refering to different races: Meaning Whites, Hispanics, and Asians. However, it is not necessary to go outside of the race to explore different cultures and attitudes towards dating, family, and male-female relations.

Black people are literally all over the world. Occupying over 40 different countries in Africa alone, as well as countries in Europe, the Caribbean, South America, Canada, and Asia. Each country has its own unique culture, beliefs, and value system. Therefore the attitudes and social structure that many African Americans believe to be representative of black people in general, are in reality unique to African Americans, not blacks across the Diaspora. One example to illustrate this is the high number of single mother families among African Americans is unique to blacks in this country. Africans generally don't have this problem, as African men strongly believe in taking care of their kids (in some parts of Nigeria if a man leaves his wife, he takes the kids with him).

It is easier to relate with someone of our own race rather than someone of a different race (no matter where they come from). It will be beneficial to the black community to look towards our sistas & brothas in the Diaspora before we seek to date outside the race.




This I totally agree with....Much respect PanAfrica...

Pan

Respect

Destee briefly touched on this subject in her "Are Latinos Africans?" thread, but I would like to outright ask how people would feel about dating black people from different countries? It is no secret that African American men & women have had some difficulties in recent years in terms of what we expect from one another, and dating prospects within the African American community. Indeed there have been numerous radioshows and magazine articles in Essence, Sister-to-Sister, Ebony, Black Male, etc, on this subject. Typical in these debates will be statistics showing the number of African American men in prisons, the number of homosexuals in the African American community; single mothers raising children without the support of any male figure; the ratio of educated black women compared to that of educated black men; and arguments about the so-called shortage of black males.

In almost all of these debates, choosing to date different cultures is a proposed solution to the perceived shortage of desirable dating prospects in the African American community. By different cultures, the authors and participants of these debates are refering to different races: Meaning Whites, Hispanics, and Asians. However, it is not necessary to go outside of the race to explore different cultures and attitudes towards dating, family, and male-female relations.

It is easier to relate with someone of our own race rather than someone of a different race (no matter where they come from). It will be beneficial to the black community to look towards our sistas & brothas in the Diaspora before we seek to date outside the race.

I've dated and still date women from Africa (Nigeria, Senegal, Somalia) and the West Indies.

I have West Indian women in my family so it wasn't hard to meet other West Indians but only after becoming a Muslim and changing my mentality did I start meeting and attracting African women.

It seems that they don't find the attitude...then mindset..of most black men in America very appealing. They're also afraid of many of us and tell me that they don't want to end up damaged.

Some African women say that once they're known to have been with AfroAmerican men, their own fellow country men no longer want them...so they dont' want to risk jeopardizing thier future by dating black men from America.

But I think the biggest obstacle preventing us from getting to know eachother is regional segregation. Most African immigrants who come to America are fairly wealthy and deal more with white people than with us. Others purposely segregate themselves from us.

Many Somalis first moved to cities like Atlanta and Chicago but had so many problems with the AfroAmericans there that they decided to settle into almost all white areas like Minnesota and Maine to avoid our presence.

PJ

Respect

A brother, I like Erykah Badu..lol but seriously, I see your point.
I think Erykah is sexy as hell, but like Alicia Keyes...she has a militant feminist streak in her that I don't care too much for.
What I look for in a woman is femininity, not a comrade in the struggle.


What I've notice is that the "few" conscious sisters here in L.A are either feminist, taken (many of them are with "thugs"), or with European men. But check this, I somewhat notice that many unconscious sisters have found some interest in conscious brothers..I have even been approached by a few "thug"-girls. I think that it's because we're different from their usual dating choice, "the souljah" but "the revolutionary" sparks a curiousity in their unconscious mind.
I know you're right because I've noticed this myself but I can't get with these thuggettes either. I don't mess around with women more streetwise and brutish than myself, takes all the fun out of it.

I suspect a lot of these women are just worn out from over-use and abuse and are now looking for a "good man" to settle down with and take care of them.


I was discussing this with some brothers in my organization and many suggested that maybe we should consider taking these sisters under our wings and teach them the knowledge of self like PanAfrica stated....That is if we're willing to be patient with them..
I was thinking of something along the lines of that myself, but with a different twist...

Actually me and some of the bruthaz I kick it with were thinking about (for quite a while now) working with some of the African sistaz we know to start a program bringing MORE African women to America to marry or just form relationships with positive black men. Sort of a next step to what brutha PanAfrica was talking about...

Hell, white boys aren't the only ones with a right to spread his seed around the planet or enjoy the luxury of mail-order brides...why shouldn't we?




Sam

Personally, I've given up on trying to pursue African-American females.........The conscious sisters always seem to end up with "thug" type brothers.

And I find there to be far too much conflict of interest and lifestyle with the non-conscious ones......Issues with religion/spirituality, diet, activities, and overall ways of thinking.

I've decided that a woman from Africa, the Caribbean, or somewhere else is the woman for me.
Great....then you'd be our first customer!

I've dated and still date women from Africa (Nigeria, Senegal, Somalia) and the West Indies. I have West Indian women in my family so it wasn't hard to meet other West Indians but only after becoming a Muslim and changing my mentality did I start meeting and attracting African women.
It seems that they don't find the attitude...then mindset..of most black men in America very appealing. They're also afraid of many of us and tell me that they don't want to end up damaged. Some African women say that once they're known to have been with AfroAmerican men, their own fellow country men no longer want them...so they dont' want to risk jeopardizing thier future by dating black men from America. But I think the biggest obstacle preventing us from getting to know each other is regional segregation. Most African immigrants who come to America are fairly wealthy and deal more with white people than with us. Others purposely segregate themselves from us. Many Somalis first moved to cities like Atlanta and Chicago but had so many problems with the AfroAmericans there that they decided to settle into almost all white areas like Minnesota and Maine to avoid our presence.

I find that when Africans are raised in the US or spend a significant amount of time in America. They often adopt the views which media portrays of African Americans (which we all know are not positive). Africans definately have a different mindset, and it is necessary to adjust ones accordinglyto build a significant relationship with one. The African concept of family and relationships are completely different than what is accepted in America. Africans are generally more accepting of people who display a knowledge and respect of their culture: food, music, rituals, dating/marriage, etc. Many Africans avoid African Americans because they don't view us as being able to respect their ways. This of course will vary from ethnic group to ethnic group. This is evident in some of the examples you listed brother Ralfai'il. 95% of Senegalese are Muslim. Therefore if a African American man was interested in dating a Wolof woman, then it would help if he was a Muslim as well. However, I should point out though that not all Africans are Muslim. Because of this, it isn't necessary to become a Muslim to attract an African woman in general. In addition to this, there are some countries that generally don't believe in mixing with other black people. For instance people from Somalia and Ethiopia generally don't mix with other Africans (although they do date white, which is another topic). This is true not only in the US, but in Africa as well. Anyone who is interested in a Ethiopian or Somalia would benefit from knowing this. There are also some cultures and countries that don't have a problem with joining others groups. People from Ghana, South Africa, and Equatorial Guinea (my wife's people) are examples of this. I think a good rule of thumb is if you want to date someone from another culture/country, you should take the time to learn about it. I would recommend this to anyone.

PJ

Respect


I think Erykah is sexy as hell, but like Alicia Keyes...she has a militant feminist streak in her that I don't care too much for.
What I look for in a woman is femininity, not a comrade in the struggle.




Everything else you said brother, I can dig but the above sentences I must comment on.

I do want femininity in my woman but at the same time, I want her to be down for the struggle with me. Like if something in our community went down and it's time to go protest, riot or whatever, I honestly wouldn't have a problem if my lady wanted to get involved with me. Brother understand, that in "our" revolution, the Afrikan Man and Woman must both be involved. It is not a struggle where the men go out to fight and the women stay home. In order to achieve African Liberation, this is a battle that has to be fought by both men and women. Remember, you had women like Harriet Tubman who lead our people to the promise land, women like Angela Davis (even though she's a feminist) who was a strong warrior for the movement. Oh and we can't forget about Assata Shakur who has d@mn near sacrifice her life (and her child) just so we could be liberated. I've only named a few women who have contributed to our struggle, there are many more. My point is the woman always have had an important role in the struggle of our people. Her fight along the side of her Black man is the reason why we are where we at today. Think about it brother man....

Peace...

PJ

Actually me and some of the bruthaz I kick it with were thinking about (for quite a while now) working with some of the African sistaz we know to start a program bringing MORE African women to America to marry or just form relationships with positive black men. Sort of a next step to what brutha PanAfrica was talking about...

Hell, white boys aren't the only ones with a right to spread his seed around the planet or enjoy the luxury of mail-order brides...why shouldn't we?




Sam


Great....then you'd be our first customer!

Just because someone is African doesn't mean they will automatically be interested in panafricanism.

PanAfrica

Respect...


I find that when Africans are raised in the US or spend a significant amount of time in America. They often adopt the views which media portrays of African Americans (which we all know are not positive). Africans definately have a different mindset, and it is necessary to adjust ones accordinglyto build a significant relationship with one. The African concept of family and relationships are completely different than what is accepted in America. Africans are generally more accepting of people who display a knowledge and respect of their culture: food, music, rituals, dating/marriage, etc. Many Africans avoid African Americans because they don't view us as being able to respect their ways. This of course will vary from ethnic group to ethnic group.
You know, if I didn't know any Africans personally and only went by how they acted in public....I would have vehemtly disagreed with you. Because they typically act like most other immigrants; basically sticking with eachother and not trying to get to know others outside of their social groups.

But since I have a few African friends who've opened up to me on who they feel about America, black people, and politics in general... I find out that you're right.

Many of them truly fear that we as a people wouldn't understand them and thier culture so as a defense mechanism they basically dwell among eachother having limited contact with other groups. And sadly, many black people are not only close minded but VOCAL about our dislike about certain ways and customs in a way that white people aren't.

Now a days, if a white man doesn't like you or thinks your ways are weird...you'd never know it because they keep thier mouths shut and pretend not to care. We have to laugh, point, and get bent all out of shape when introduced to foreign ideas and customs and many people find that extemely offensive.

So when I found this out, I made it a duty to get learn about other cultures and make an effort to be an extrovert and get to know them. That's how I met people from different African countries....took an effort to meet them.

After all, this is my country so it's my responsibility to make my guests feel welcomed.






This is evident in some of the examples you listed brother Ralfai'il. 95% of Senegalese are Muslim. Therefore if a African American man was interested in dating a Wolof woman, then it would help if he was a Muslim as well. However, I should point out though that not all Africans are Muslim. Because of this, it isn't necessary to become a Muslim to attract an African woman in general.
You're right but you know what....

Like many Muslims, I have strong beliefs about life and social regulations, especially concerning family and gender.

When other Africans hear this, they may not be Muslim or agree with everything I say but they are sometimes taken by my conviction because they don't see it much in the West.

It reminds them of back home and the strong emphasis placed on social customs.

I'm not gonna lie bro, I use this to my advanage and play it to the fullest.

Actually it's a little embarassing to say a few African women I run into actually get angry because they thought by coming to America...they escaped such rigid ideaology...and here's another one staring them in the face grinning.



In addition to this, there are some countries that generally don't believe in mixing with other black people. For instance people from Somalia and Ethiopia generally don't mix with other Africans (although they do date white, which is another topic).
Man, who you telling!

In one of the masjids I attended, some of the Somali brothers had to end up leaving because of all the friction they brought upon themselves by bringing their sisters to America and instead of introducing them to the Muslim community (mostly black)...they snuck them past the community, hustled them out to the suburbs, and married them off to wealthy white Christian men.

Brothers got so inflammed, them jokers had to leave and we haven't seem them since.

PJ

Respect

I do want femininity in my woman but at the same time, I want her to be down for the struggle with me. Like if something in our community went down and it's time to go protest, riot or whatever, I honestly wouldn't have a problem if my lady wanted to get involved with me. Brother understand, that in "our" revolution, the Afrikan Man and Woman must both be involved. It is not a struggle where the men go out to fight and the women stay home.

Most def...

But a revolution, or any type of organized plan/project works best when we're all working in our established roles.
A plan works best when we all follow the script our leader gives us instead of doing our own thang.

Elijah Muhammad and Marcus Garvey knew the importance of our sistaz in their proper roles. Check out the MGT.

Now if I'm out soldiering and struggling all day dealing with Satan, I needs me a nice clean environment with a hot meal to nourish me, a warm lap to lay my head on, and a caring sista to nurse my wounds....she can't do that if she's out there sweating and getting dirty and jacked up like me.

Somebody needs to take care of home.



In order to achieve African Liberation, this is a battle that has to be fought by both men and women. Remember, you had women like Harriet Tubman who lead our people to the promise land, women like Angela Davis (even though she's a feminist) who was a strong warrior for the movement. Oh and we can't forget about Assata Shakur who has d@mn near sacrifice her life (and her child) just so we could be liberated. I've only named a few women who have contributed to our struggle, there are many more. My point is the woman always have had an important role in the struggle of our people. Her fight along the side of her Black man is the reason why we are where we at today. Think about it brother man....

I thought about it....

And the more I think about how too many of our women were fighting while too many of us were pimping around the same time, the more it disgusts me.

The black American community has been under matriarchal rule too long and thats the reason why so many of our women act masucline now, and so many of our men have turned gay or can't seem to get or find a woman.

Our roles have been jacked up and reversed.

Like Chuck D said...we gotta get it right again.





Karm

Peace

Just because someone is African doesn't mean they will automatically be interested in panafricanism.
You're right, more often than not...it's the opposite.

Most Africans who come West are caught up in the Western lifestyle and aren't interested in uniting all black people.

But like I told Pharoah and Wild Child, when I'm looking for a wife...panafricanism isn't on my short-list.

Physical attraction, femininity, and being a good mother and wife are the main attributes I'm looking for.

You know, if I didn't know any Africans personally and only went by how they acted in public....I would have vehemtly disagreed with you. Because they typically act like most other immigrants; basically sticking with eachother and not trying to get to know others outside of their social groups.But since I have a few African friends who've opened up to me on who they feel about America, black people, and politics in general... I find out that you're right.Many of them truly fear that we as a people wouldn't understand them and thier culture so as a defense mechanism they basically dwell among eachother having limited contact with other groups. And sadly, many black people are not only close minded but VOCAL about our dislike about certain ways and customs in a way that white people aren't.Now a days, if a white man doesn't like you or thinks your ways are weird...you'd never know it because they keep thier mouths shut and pretend not to care. We have to laugh, point, and get bent all out of shape when introduced to foreign ideas and customs and many people find that extemely offensive.So when I found this out, I made it a duty to get learn about other cultures and make an effort to be an extrovert and get to know them. That's how I met people from different African countries....took an effort to meet them.After all, this is my country so it's my responsibility to make my guests feel welcomed.

Not only am I married to an African woman, but a large number of my friends are African (born and raised). As a result, I am privy to a lot of inside information. My daughter's godmother (a Senegalese woman) is currently looking for a husband. This woman is one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen, sweet, cooks, educated, speaks several languages (English, French, Spanish, and Wolof). She is only interested in marrying an African though. Her choices aren't limited to her particular ethnic group, she is willing to marry an African from another culture. However she is determined that he be African, because she doesn't want to deal with cultural differences. This is definately their primary concern & hesitation about dating African Americans. Also like you said, many Africans who come here are from prestigious families. They aren't going to accept anyone. A brother who is interested can't approach them like they would any sista on the street.

PJ

Respect


Most def...

But a revolution, or any type of organized plan/project works best when we're all working in our established roles.
A plan works best when we all follow the script our leader gives us instead of doing our own thang.

Elijah Muhammad and Marcus Garvey knew the importance of our sistaz in their proper roles. Check out the MGT.

Now if I'm out soldiering and struggling all day dealing with Satan, I needs me a nice clean environment with a hot meal to nourish me, a warm lap to lay my head on, and a caring sista to nurse my wounds....she can't do that if she's out there sweating and getting dirty and jacked up like me.

Somebody needs to take care of home.





I thought about it....

And the more I think about how too many of our women were fighting while too many of us were pimping around the same time, the more it disgusts me.

The black American community has been under matriarchal rule too long and thats the reason why so many of our women act masucline now, and so many of our men have turned gay or can't seem to get or find a woman.

Our roles have been jacked up and reversed.

Like Chuck D said...we gotta get it right again..



Peace,


Brother, you're missing the point. If many of the sistas whom I've mentioned decided to stay home, I bet you we wouldn't be where we are today. There are sistas who are just as passionate about the struggle as we are. So you mean to tell me that the only way they can help is by staying home? that sucks. What you are doing is under estimating the ability of the female, you're limiting her potential and as for homosexuality being in our community, there's too much male testosterone like one poster stated in another thread. There isn't a balance in this society so of course we have masucline sisters and homosexual brothers. We're alowing the male principle to dominate. In Ancient times, we didn't have this problem because the female was considered equal. Why, we had Warrior Queens who took on important positions such as Queen Hatshepsut, Queen Nzingha, Queen Kahina, and Queen Yaa Asantewa. Each of these sisters challenged male supremacy. Shoot, the African woman even survived slavery and been threw some of the lowest depths of hell..That's a strong woman. Now, I'm not saying the woman should take on the role of a man but don't limit her at the same time. The Creator has blessed her with more potential than we as man can imagine. Give her a little more credit and respect. That's all I'm saying.


Peace...

Pan

Maximum

Not only am I married to an African woman, but a large number of my friends are African (born and raised). As a result, I am privy to a lot of inside information. My daughter's godmother (a Senegalese woman) is currently looking for a husband. This woman is one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen, sweet, cooks, educated, speaks several languages (English, French, Spanish, and Wolof). She is only interested in marrying an African though. Her choices aren't limited to her particular ethnic group, she is willing to marry an African from another culture. However she is determined that he be African, because she doesn't want to deal with cultural differences. This is definately their primary concern & hesitation about dating African Americans. Also like you said, many Africans who come here are from prestigious families. They aren't going to accept anyone. A brother who is interested can't approach them like they would any sista on the street.
Let me just say that I know some African women, but not many...probably about 10-15 closely...and have dated only 6. So I'm in no way claiming to be an expert on how Nigerian, Ghanaian, or Somali women think and feel.

Obviously being married to a woman from the Continent and being involved with her family you would know more.

But I'm learning.

I can safetly say that I USED to have problems meeting African women who were interested only in African men, but now that I've changed my thinking and educated myself on so many different subjects of history, religion, and geography..I'm confident enough to melt down those nationalist barriers so many of our sistaz have when they come to this country.

My biggest problem when meeting the average African woman I'm interested in is finding one over 18 who isn't married!

Most of the men who come over here are single, free, and swinging.

But most of the women (especially good looking ones) who can cook are already snatched up or on "lay-a-way" for a brutha back home.




Pharoah

Peace

Brother, you're missing the point. If many of the sistas whom I've mentioned decided to stay home, I bet you we wouldn't be where we are today.
Brutha, where ARE we today?

Not all of us, but as AfroAmericans...
Our families are broken, or children are wayward, drugs and crime plague our communities, we aren't respected by the outsiders, and despite our best efforts....gender relations is at an all time low.

Whatever we're doing, it's not working.
Perhaps we need a new approach.


There are sistas who are just as passionate about the struggle as we are. So you mean to tell me that the only way they can help is by staying home? that sucks. What you are doing is under estimating the ability of the female, you're limiting her potential and as for homosexuality being in our community, there's too much male testosterone like one poster stated in another thread. There isn't a balance in this society so of course we have masucline sisters and homosexual brothers. We're alowing the male principle to dominate. In Ancient times, we didn't have this problem because the female was considered equal. Why, we had Warrior Queens who took on important positions such as Queen Hatshepsut, Queen Nzingha, Queen Kahina, and Queen Yaa Asantewa. Each of these sisters challenged male supremacy. Shoot, the African woman even survived slavery and been threw some of the lowest depths of hell..That's a strong woman. Now, I'm not saying the woman should take on the role of a man but don't limit her at the same time. The Creator has blessed her with more potential than we as man can imagine. Give her a little more credit and respect. That's all I'm saying.
You're entitled to your opinion beloved and I can't argue with it.

You can do what you want to do.

As for me and the men I deal with, we read history and how emasculation has destroyed the black community since we've been here and we are avowed Patriarchs.

We don't call Africa the Motherland, but the FatherLand.

We will always be the heads of our households and families, and have vowed an oath of refusal to live in or deal with any black community where the men have forfeited their God given right as leaders, protectors, and providers.

Simple as...

I can safetly say that I USED to have problems meeting African women who were interested only in African men, but now that I've changed my thinking and educated myself on so many different subjects of history, religion, and geography..I'm confident enough to melt down those nationalist barriers so many of our sistaz have when they come to this country.My biggest problem when meeting the average African woman I'm interested in is finding one over 18 who isn't married! Most of the men who come over here are single, free, and swinging. But most of the women (especially good looking ones) who can cook are already snatched up or on "lay-a-way" for a brutha back home.

Good women don't lay around (as they shouldn't), so I'm not surprised brother Ralfa'il...Africans know a catch when they see it. However, the positive news is that good African women are the rule, not the exception. No matter how many of them are taken, there are more where that came from.

Pan

No matter how many of them are taken, there are more where that came from.

It's precisely this concept that inspired us to consider a program for AfroAmericans who are interested in African and West Indian mates.

I'm tired of white boys using the Peace Corps and missionary work as exuses to go to so-called 3rd world countries and snatch up our women left and right while lying about us.



It used to be that many African women rejected us because we were too much like white men.
Now it's gotten to the point where many African women will leap over an Afrocentric black man to get to a white man.

They've already punked out the East Asian man in the West and took his woman and they're trying to do the same with us.

These devilish snakes won't be satisfied until they've created an environment in which every white man has 2 or 3 women of different flavors crawling all over him and us black men are left with only a few hood-rats to fight over.

We have to hurry up and nip this thang in the bud brutha man!

It's precisely this concept that inspired us to consider a program for AfroAmericans who are interested in African and West Indian mates. I'm tired of white boys using the Peace Corps and missionary work as exuses to go to so-called 3rd world countries and snatch up our women left and right while lying about us. It used to be that many African women rejected us because we were too much like white men. Now it's gotten to the point where many African women will leap over an Afrocentric black man to get to a white man. They've already punked out the East Asian man in the West and took his woman and they're trying to do the same with us.
These devilish snakes won't be satisfied until they've created an environment in which every white man has 2 or 3 women of different flavors crawling all over him and us black men are left with only a few hood-rats to fight over. We have to hurry up and nip this thang in the bud brutha man!

Before the peace corps worker, there was the Christian Missionary, who also used thier position to sexually exploit African women. Similar tactic, same results. There will always be black women who are all too willing to be with a white man. This happens in every culture, and every country. Africa has been colonized by Europe, and been subjected to European brainwashing like all other black people. Unfortunately some have also internalized the white is right mentality. However, the overwhelming majority of African women are with black men. Also unlike us, no matter what they were told...they always had their original culture. Thus while some have the white is right mentality, the majority are firmly grounded in their African roots (which is why most are with black men). I'm all for a program which allows African American men to meet Caribbean & African women. I think it would bring about much good in both our lands!

PJ

Sam

Great....then you'd be our first customer!


I have no idea what you're talking about, and when it comes to things of a relationship nature, I don't wish to allign myself with you, due to your faulty perspectives about women.

I'll find my Queen on my own, thank you very much.

PEACE

Peace........

Brutha, where ARE we today?

Not all of us, but as AfroAmericans...
Our families are broken, or children are wayward, drugs and crime plague our communities, we aren't respected by the outsiders, and despite our best efforts....gender relations is at an all time low.

Whatever we're doing, it's not working.
Perhaps we need a new approach. - Ralfa'il



Which I agree but OVERALL, we have went threw and over come many obstacles set forth in our path. The Middle Passage, Slavery, Jim Crowism. Despite our present conditions, do you not see the journey that we Africans in America have travel?



You're entitled to your opinion beloved and I can't argue with it.

You can do what you want to do.

As for me and the men I deal with, we read history and how emasculation has destroyed the black community since we've been here and we are avowed Patriarchs.

We don't call Africa the Motherland, but the FatherLand.

We will always be the heads of our households and families, and have vowed an oath of refusal to live in or deal with any black community where the men have forfeited their God given right as leaders, protectors, and providers.

Simple as... - Ralfa'il



You're making a little too much out of this argument brother. All I am saying is don't limit the woman. Just because a woman chooses to be involved in the struggle of her people, OUR people, does not make her any less of a woman. Plain and simple. I am all for us men being the head of the households, providers, protectors etc etc...but when we are struggeling as Africans, we need the help of both men and women to be involved. I know a Muslim sister who is actively involved in her community and still take care of the duties of her house hold as a wife and a mother. As long as our fight for liberation doesn't conflict with our personal roles, there shouldn't be a problem......


Peace....

Not only am I married to an African woman, but a large number of my friends are African (born and raised). As a result, I am privy to a lot of inside information. My daughter's godmother (a Senegalese woman) is currently looking for a husband. This woman is one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen, sweet, cooks, educated, speaks several languages (English, French, Spanish, and Wolof). She is only interested in marrying an African though. Her choices aren't limited to her particular ethnic group, she is willing to marry an African from another culture. However she is determined that he be African, because she doesn't want to deal with cultural differences. This is definately their primary concern & hesitation about dating African Americans. Also like you said, many Africans who come here are from prestigious families. They aren't going to accept anyone. A brother who is interested can't approach them like they would any sista on the street.
Because you are married to an African woman and hang out with African people that makes you an expert of African people?
I think you still think like an Afro-American relating to most issues concerning Africa and our matrimonial habits. Please speak for yourself, don't mingle all African males in your speech, not even many of them.. You have no clue how we chose our women or what we think about so many of other things.

And speaking for myself I am a male from Cameroun, my girlfriend or my wife has to be a pro-black person no doubt. I prefer she is African as far as customs and lifestyles goes, but if she is black and conscious it's ok as well.

Because you are married to an African woman and hang out with African people that makes you an expert of African people?
I think you still think like an Afro-American relating to most issues concerning Africa and our matrimonial habits. Please speak for yourself, don't mingle all African males in your speech, not even many of them.. You have no clue how we chose our women or what we think about so many other things.

And speaking for myself I am a male from Cameroun, my girlfriend or my wife has to be a pro-black person no doubt. I prefer she is African as far as customs and lifestyles goes, but if she is black and conscious it's ok as well.

Actually if you read what I was saying, I wasn't talking about African males. I was talking about African women in the US. However, you validated much of what I said in your attempt to correct me: "I prefer she is African as far as customs and lifestyles goes, but if she is black and conscious it's ok as well." That was actually my point, that many Africans want someone who understands & respects their culture!

Actually if you read what I was saying, I wasn't talking about African males. I was talking about African women in the US. However, you validated much of what I said in your attempt to correct me: "I prefer she is African as far as customs and lifestyles goes, but if she is black and conscious it's ok as well." That was actually my point, that many Africans want someone who understands & respects their culture!
OK I got you. Above was something I had to say, though.

One question for the Afro American brothas in here, what's wrong with your women? Why do you prefer dating or marring women from the continent rather than your own? Seems like you wouldn't give a chance to your own women. WHY? How are you going to mend the Afro American family like that? Running away is not the solution..
And do you seriously think dating/marrying an unconscious woman from the Continent is the best solution? give me a break.

One question for the Afro American brothas in here, what's wrong with your women? Why do you prefer dating or marring women from the continent rather than your own? Seems like you wouldn't give a chance to your own women. WHY? How are you going to mend the Afro American family like that? Running away is not the solution..
And do you seriously think dating/marrying an unconscious woman from the Continent is the best solution? give me a break.

Brother Simba, what's up!

I don't think African American men are, en masse, seeking out any other women except African American women... Don't be misled by a few cats posting on a discussion board, as that is not going to be an accurate reflection of how millions of Black men in the United States think...

African American women are beautiful feminine specimens, and aint a damned thing "wrong" with 'em... Like women all over the diaspora, there is a problem with consciousness among our sisters, as well as, our brothers(smile!) That, however, is the last thing I think about when a beautiful sista crosses my path, and my hormones take over... That is how nature planned it(smile!) There should be none of all of this rational intellectual stuff when it comes to who attracts ya - and in truth, there is not!

For years I have heard people talking all this nonsense about I aint dating this one and that one because they're not conscious, they're not cultural, They aint from my country, and so on... Time an attractive person of another culture, nation, or consciousness comes into the picture, we are overwhelmed by more human, more carnal considerations... Happens all the time, and you what, it is totally human, totally human...

Peace!
Isaiah

One question for the Afro American brothas in here, what's wrong with your women? Why do you prefer dating or marring women from the continent rather than your own? Seems like you wouldn't give a chance to your own women. WHY? How are you going to mend the Afro American family like that? Running away is not the solution..And do you seriously think dating/marrying an unconscious woman from the Continent is the best solution? give me a break.

Simba:

You could ask the same question of African men who date/marry African American women (we both know there are plenty). However, I fail to see how black people marrying black people is a problem. I don’t subscribe to tribalism, as my screen name attests to. Black people across the Diaspora & Africa joining together economically, politically, and socially (which includes dating & marriage) can only beneficial to the progress of Black folk worldwide. As black folk learn more about each other, and they connect with those from other cultures & regions, they will mix. In addition they will gravitate towards what attracts them. This includes physical traits & cultural attitudes (including views on religion & family). I find it interesting that some will object to Black people dating/marrying other Blacks, yet these same people have nothing to say about their brothers/sisters getting with Europeans.

PJ

Respect

Which I agree but OVERALL, we have went threw and over come many obstacles set forth in our path. The Middle Passage, Slavery, Jim Crowism. Despite our present conditions, do you not see the journey that we Africans in America have travel?
I think we were doing MIGHTY FINE....right up until Ronald Reagan got in office.

Everything has been going down hill since.



You're making a little too much out of this argument brother. All I am saying is don't limit the woman. Just because a woman chooses to be involved in the struggle of her people, OUR people, does not make her any less of a woman. Plain and simple. I am all for us men being the head of the households, providers, protectors etc etc...but when we are struggeling as Africans, we need the help of both men and women to be involved. I know a Muslim sister who is actively involved in her community and still take care of the duties of her house hold as a wife and a mother. As long as our fight for liberation doesn't conflict with our personal roles, there shouldn't be a problem......
Totally agree with you there bruh...







Simba

Peace
What part of Africa are you from, may I ask what tribe?


One question for the Afro American brothas in here, what's wrong with your women? Why do you prefer dating or marring women from the continent rather than your own? Seems like you wouldn't give a chance to your own women. WHY? How are you going to mend the Afro American family like that? Running away is not the solution..
And do you seriously think dating/marrying an unconscious woman from the Continent is the best solution? give me a break.
((grinning))

Honestly, I've never heard an African ask that question before.

Hmmmm.....

((stomps the floor and LMAO at what I'm thinking))

Well, I you ask why do some of us prefer dating/marrying women from the continent rather than our own.
I thought African women WERE our own, so it's a must that we get to know eachother.






Pan

You could ask the same question of African men who date/marry African American women (we both know there are plenty). I find it interesting that some will object to Black people dating/marrying other Blacks, yet these same people have nothing to say about their brothers/sisters getting with Europeans.

Brutha Pan, you just stole the words right out of my mouth.

You should start selling them at $5 a letter.

Obviously, my question jutifies Panafrica bringing the issue of African men supposedly letting African women dating/marrying white men no shame…If we go there it seems to me it’s more Afro American women and men sleeping and making babies with the colonists. As far as Africans, we have more trouble mingling with westerners, Panafrica you said this yourself!

Perhaps there are a couple of African women dating/marrying European or American ones, but overall they prefer their men form Africa. They prefer to marry us because we treat them the best. Am I lying? Ask Panafrica, who knows SO much about Africans, he will tell you I am not lying.

Regarding Afro Diasporas dating/marring Africans, I think it solve no problems. Most of these marriages are not in the advantage of Africans, because we are expected to live in Afro Americans and other Afro Diasporas places and adopt their way of life.

How many Afro Americans do you see speaking an African language fluently and/or living in Africa taking care of the African spouse family like he or she’s supposed to do? Whether in the West or in Africa, Afro Americans take a superior stance toward Africans, I don't know what they think they are. Do they have the inclination to really go back home? I don’t think so, that’s the issue! I can’t find an Afro American brotha or sista true enough to take responsibility in Africa, whether via moral and financial support of his or her in-law in the Motherland, or simply via business or otherwise.

Besides and to be honest, Afro Americans or West Indians cant’ do nothing for us if they can’t love themselves first. What’s the point of looking for women in Africa if it’s a BLACK woman you are looking for in the first place, if it is so then there are plenty of black women in America! If it’s the non-progressive and the non Afrocentric BLACK women you want WHY LOOKING FOR AFRICAN WOMEN ESPECIALLY? I thought you were supposed to be Black Nationalists, so it shouldn’t matter the black women you want to marry... Learn to love your own women, pass them on the skills of Afrocentricity and pro-blackness so they can pass them on your children. African males ought to do the same, of course, but thinking it’s always better on the other side of the fence it’s non-useful, imo it's even stupid.

Whilst I can understand your desire for continental escapism, I say to the brothas in here to give it a try, support your own Afro American women. If what Isaiah says it’s true, then you should take the time to date and marry your own women, like we African males like to do. Make the effort to support your own women, treat them good; make a true difference in your homes!

If there are African males saying they like their beautiful women sleeping and marrying Europeans males they are shameful, because NO decent African person should seek to sleep or marry the colonists! As Panafrica insinuation about me agreeing with this humiliation, it’s pretty interesting to me but expected.

I am the new kid on the block in this website. I come here to learn about Afro Americans. That's why I came here and that’s what I am going to do. It’s expected I should criticize what you say, being an African, if you talk about Africans. By the way, where are the African members? I encourage them to say something.



Isaiah,

About what you said I disagree…As far as I am concerned I expect my woman to be a very proud African female bottom line, and if she’s not it’s a big turn off for me. I used to date sistas hooked on Christianity, who believed on the superiority of whites and numerous BS that keep our people backward. These women used to cause me all kinds of problems… To tell you the truth most females in Cameroon are warriors women, they know how to please their men in the bedroom, how to take care of our homes very well, how to feed our children properly… they are able to battle to make a living in very hardship situation, they are very sensitive but they also have the charisma to gain the respect of all men! My mother is one of these women. She did everything she can so I can be a good man who adores BLACK women and spoil them, as long as they are intelligent and have respect for the BLACK man and our African roots... Surely for some brothas like you Isaiah, it’s not much important all that, but African pride and lifestyle missing in a couple what do you have left? Imo, you have the typical boredom and lack of respect of Eurocentrism matrimony: woman miss to know her place, the man hold too much power, or no power at all. WHY? Because they don’t know who they are! Year after year it’s the downfall, believe me I’ve been there, it’s a hell of a place to be. I would rather die than be with a non-conscious and non-Afrocentric woman again. I am single now, and I wait, I am very optimist...

Obviously, my question jutifies Panafrica bringing the issue of African men supposedly letting African women dating/marrying white men no shame…If we go there it seems to me it’s more Afro American women and men sleeping and making babies with the colonists. As far as Africans, we have more trouble mingling with westerners, Panafrica you said this yourself!

Perhaps there are a couple of African women dating/marrying European or American ones, but overall they prefer their men form Africa. They prefer to marry us because we treat them the best. Am I lying? Ask Panafrica, who knows SO much about Africans, he will tell you I am not lying.

Regarding Afro Diasporas dating/marring Africans, I think it solve no problems. Most of these marriages are not in the advantage of Africans, because we are expected to live in Afro Americans and other Afro Diasporas places and adopt their way of life.

How many Afro Americans do you see speaking an African language fluently and/or living in Africa taking care of the African spouse family like he or she’s supposed to do? Whether in the West or in Africa, Afro Americans take a superior stance toward Africans, I don't know what they think they are. Do they have the inclination to really go back home? I don’t think so, that’s the issue! I can’t find an Afro American brotha or sista true enough to take responsibility in Africa, whether via moral and financial support of his or her in-law in the Motherland, or simply via business or otherwise.

Besides and to be honest, Afro Americans or West Indians cant’ do nothing for us if they can’t love themselves first. What’s the point of looking for women in Africa if it’s a BLACK woman you are looking for in the first place, if it is so then there are plenty of black women in America! If it’s the non-progressive and the non Afrocentric BLACK women you want WHY LOOKING FOR AFRICAN WOMEN ESPECIALLY? I thought you were supposed to be Black Nationalists, so it shouldn’t matter the black women you want to marry... Learn to love your own women, pass them on the skills of Afrocentricity and pro-blackness so they can pass them on your children. African males ought to do the same, of course, but thinking it’s always better on the other side of the fence it’s non-useful, imo it's even stupid.

Whilst I can understand your desire for continental escapism, I say to the brothas in here to give it a try, support your own Afro American women. If what Isaiah says it’s true, then you should take the time to date and marry your own women, like we African males like to do. Make the effort to support your own women, treat them good; make a true difference in your homes!

If there are African males saying they like their beautiful women sleeping and marrying Europeans males they are shameful, because NO decent African person should seek to sleep or marry the colonists! As Panafrica insinuation about me agreeing with this humiliation, it’s pretty interesting to me but expected.

I am the new kid on the block in this website. I come here to learn about Afro Americans. That's why I came here and that’s what I am going to do. It’s expected I should criticize what you say, being an African, if you talk about Africans. By the way, where are the African members? I encourage them to say something.



Isaiah,

About what you said I disagree…As far as I am concerned I expect my woman to be a very proud African female bottom line, and if she’s not it’s a big turn off for me. I used to date sistas hooked on Christianity, who believed on the superiority of whites and numerous BS that keep our people backward. These women used to cause me all kinds of problems… To tell you the truth most females in Cameroon are warriors women, they know how to please their men in the bedroom, how to take care of our homes very well, how to feed our children properly… they are able to battle to make a living in very hardship situation, they are very sensitive but they also have the charisma to gain the respect of all men! My mother is one of these women. She did everything she can so I can be a good man who adores BLACK women and spoil them, as long as they are intelligent and have respect for the BLACK man and our African roots... Surely for some brothas like you Isaiah, it’s not much important all that, but African pride and lifestyle missing in a couple what do you have left? Imo, you have the typical boredom and lack of respect of Eurocentrism matrimony: woman miss to know her place, the man hold too much power, or no power at all. WHY? Because they don’t know who they are! Year after year it’s the downfall, believe me I’ve been there, it’s a hell of a place to be. I would rather die than be with a non-conscious and non-Afrocentric woman again. I am single now, and I wait, I am very optimist...

Brother Simba, careful not to make judgements of myself, or other African Americans... Extend to myself the level of respect you are mouthing out of one side of your mouth, but failing to demonstrate from the other...

Again, I said words to the effect that no matter how one cuts it, brother, we are human beings, and thus respond to the very impulses which a higher power has vested in us. No matter how conscious we are, we still respond to the strongest of all of man's urges, and that is to have companionship with one of the opposite sex. That she is conscious, a great home maker, bad-bad and wicked in bed is great, but, tell me, how in hell you know all that, and you don't even know her name yet???

The essence of what I'm saying is that we are human beings, and our impulses can be pretty strong. When we see one of the opposite sex, and they are attractive to us, it don't matter where they're from on the globe, or how well they keep house. That is the way nature planned it, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the colorings and shadings our intellect places on it. That is the real deal, no matter how bored you are with it.

Lastly brother, this browbeating of African Americans about whether they take responsibility for the continent, or do business on the continent, or care about Africans on the continent, has to stop. It must stop, because browbeating folk does not change those things, it only exacerbates the problem. I can say that Africans have not been all that accepting and welcoming of African Americans either - and THAT may be part and parcel, the problem, too. If you want to attract bees, bring the honey, brother, not a baseball bat.

Peace!
Isaiah

Isaiah,

Do you except me to be honest or not? I’m speaking form an African male perspective it’s how I see things. I don’t see how I show you no respect. I am not here to camouflage or to be a hypocrite. So I say, I think it’s totally naïve to base a relationship on sexual attraction only being the intelligent humans beings that we are. Do you think you can transform your society with a blatant ignorant woman who puts more effort in trifling things than on the struggle, ie. the international struggle of black people? I put my money where my month is, I will never be content to be with a non-progressive and a non-Afrocentric woman period, consciously or unconsciously they are the Westerners agents, and they are the ones with major complexes.

As for myself, my role is not to be mean, I am just a very proud African, and I think it’s lamentable to see Afro Americans brothas having this kind of thinking on their own Afro American women. I feel the brothas in here, perhaps like Panafrica, are bragging about the incapability to be with an Afro American woman. Isaiah, you say this mindset is not dominant in the American Panafrican/Black Nationalist brothas but I think it is, and it’s lamentable. Whatever the circumstance, we need to stick to our own women before we jump to be with other ones. Many times I’ve seen in these brothas an exotic desire just like the European man. Do not think we don’t know that, it’s a big game of pleasure for certain brothas to meet the girls form Africa. Sometimes they come pick them up in the Motherland; back home for the occasion they organize nasty sexual activities in the opposite of what they claim to want to do with them. I’ve seen what Afro Diasporas and whites like to do to our women in Cameroon, it degusts me, and for so many reasons I see the incapacity to agree with Panafrica idea.

If we supposedly focus on the strength of our people, why only looking for black women on the other side of the fence? This behavior is silly because we know, although we are all black, we have our own customs and our own outlook on life. That’s what I have to say, no offense. Tribalism is a huge part of black/African people, whether you admit it or not. I am not ashamed to say I am Nationalist Cameroon man it’s a big part of giving us strength to resist oppression, invasion and extermination… at least it should be.

As for Afro American not willing to break the gap with Africans, I consider this not a problem; it’s fine with me. I see you can’t even fix your own psychological and material problems ultimately you will fail if you try to help us. Most Afro Americans are lazy anyway, so are Africans. We distrust each other everywhere. So frankly, I fail to recognize any help coming from Afro Americans.

I am the new kid on the block in this website. I come here to learn about Afro Americans. That's why I came here and that’s what I am going to do. It’s expected I should criticize what you say, being an African, if you talk about Africans. By the way, where are the African members? I encourage them to say something.

I never cease to be amazed at people who will come into a place talking about what they disagree with, instead of putting their efforts into what they do agree with. Since you are the new kid on the block Simba, this particular forum is dedicated to PanAfricanism. I assume you know what that is about, so the perspectives of threads here should not be surprising. Also Simba most African Americans are not PanAfricanist, so if you want to learn about Afro Americans, you might want to visit the other forums. Lastly Kwango_Likemba who responded in the 1st few pages of this thread is an African, there are many Africans who post here. If you want to know their opinions, read their threads.

As for myself, my role is not to be mean, I am just a very proud African, and I think it’s lamentable to see Afro Americans brothas having this kind of thinking on their own Afro American women. I feel the brothas in here, perhaps like Panafrica, are bragging about the incapability to be with an Afro American woman. Isaiah, you say this mindset is not dominant in the American Panafrican/Black Nationalist brothas but I think it is, and it’s lamentable. Whatever the circumstance, we need to stick to our own women before we jump to be with other ones. Many times I’ve seen in these brothas an exotic desire just like the European man. Do not think we don’t know that, it’s a big game of pleasure for certain brothas to meet the girls form Africa. Sometimes they come pick them up in the Motherland; back home for the occasion they organize nasty sexual activities in the opposite of what they claim to want to do with them. I’ve seen what Afro Diasporas and whites like to do to our women in Cameroon, it degusts me, and for so many reasons I see the incapacity to agree with Panafrica idea.

If we supposedly focus on the strength of our people, why only looking for black women on the other side of the fence? This behavior is silly because we know, although we are all black, we have our own customs and our own outlook on life. That’s what I have to say, no offense. Tribalism is a huge part of black/African people, whether you admit it or not. I am not ashamed to say I am Nationalist Cameroon man it’s a big part of giving us strength to resist oppression, invasion and extermination… at least it should be.

I find this interesting Simba. On one hand you are calling us Afro American brothers, while on the other hand you are saying we need to stick to our "own". If you don't consider us the same, then what is the "pretense" of calling us brothers? I don't consider white people my brothers. I don't consider Asians my brothers. If people are to be considered our brothers & sisters, then that means we are the same. If we are the same, then what is the problem with us getting together? By the way, you still haven't addressed African men getting together with African American women. Is there exotic fantasies or nasty sexual activity going on there....My brother?

Panafrica,

It’s true I say “Afro American brothas” it doesn’t mean I can’t tell you what I want to tell you. I cannot wholly feel connected to Afro Americans we are different people psychologically. However, we are all BLACK, we have the same political and economical problems I cannot dismiss these facts. Since it’s the case I can call you “brothers”, if it’s such a big deal it’s possible I wont’ say this again.

Despite what you say Panafrica, I feel Africans seems to hide on these boards, I read what sista Kwango had to say, as well as others Africans but I wish there was more I could say there is a real African presence on these boards. It’s cool, I will discover more of you all in due time, off the Panafrican forum perhaps.

As for African males dating/marrying Afro American women it’s not widespread at all, in fact this trend is rare and most African men I see doing this use this romance as a way of having immigration papers, I tell you the truth about that. Because as you know, most Africans men don’t like foreign women who don’t know how to please African men, how to lead a good home and how to abide by their woman roles.

Some posters said it in this thread, or somewhere else, that Afro American women are aggressive, imo too westernized and/or lack humility. They want men to pay big times for them when they fail to show us courtesy. Although I enjoy the company of a few Afro American girls, they still don’t share my outlook on life. I need a pro-African woman who places great emphasis on my family, my country, my native tongue and the ways of my ancestors. She needs to realize than once she is married to an African man she has to be a good housewife and serve her husband. She MUST please the man and his family! It’s how we do things in traditional Africa. Whom Afro American lady is willing to do that? None I’ve met at least, that’s why I say we should stick to our own women first, those with whom we have the same habits and outlook on life.

Simba

Respect


Well first of all I think PanAfrica is more than capable of defending himself, but I don't think he or anyone else on here is claiming to know SO MUCH about Africa and Africans.

Certainly you being from the continent would and should know more about your own people than someone from the outside.

But the fact that we know ANYTHING of value about the land of our ancestry should be applauded instead of criticized, seeing as how there has been a concerted effort on the part of whites to keep us separated from our history.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but I'd think you would be proud that me and other bruthaz would take time to learn and share what we know of our homeland.



Concerning African women with white men.

Ofcourse most African women prefer their own men, that goes without saying for nearly all nationalities and races.

The problem is when African women who come West start preferring white men OVER men of thier own race, and the reasons they give.

I met a woman from Kenya the other day and after about a half hour of conversation, I asked her why so many East African women exclusively date white men.

She played it off like she had no idea of what I was talking about at first and said that this is definately not the case.


Then less than 5 minutes later, when a black man came through the place looking to scrap up 30 cents for busfair; she pointed at him in disgust..squinted her eyes and said:

"You see...that is the reason so many Kenyan women would rather deal with white men.

"Because too many black men in America don't work or live good lives

Can you not see this?"

I could have easily pointed out how contradicting and deceitful her behavior was right then and there, but I didn't....just shook my head.

After realizing she let her emotions get the best of her, she said the same thing YOU said and explained that the vast majority of Kenyan women still marry Kenyan men so it's not a problem.

But not only wasn't it a problem, it wasn't even the issue.

The issue was why they like white American men more than American men of their own race.




Regarding Afro Diasporas dating/marring Africans, I think it solve no problems. Most of these marriages are not in the advantage of Africans, because we are expected to live in Afro Americans and other Afro Diasporas places and adopt their way of life.
People generally don't date to solve problems in their cultural groups, they date/marry because they love eachother and find certain things in common.

But you'd have to learn to adapt in any society you migrate to whether it's America, China, or India.

If you don't mind your women adopting the white western way of life, then you shouldn't mind them adopting the AfroAmerican/West Indian way....unless you deem it inferior.


But personally, I prefer to marry an African woman because most I've met were more family oriented, docile/passive, and didn't mind being WOMEN instead of trying to be men.



I need a pro-African woman who places great emphasis on my family, my country, my native tongue and the ways of my ancestors. She needs to realize than once she is married to an African man she has to be a good housewife and serve her husband family. She MUST please the man and the family! It’s how we do things in traditional Africa. Whom Afro American lady is willing to do that? None I’ve met at least, so that’s why I say we should stick to our own women first, those with whom we have the same habits and outlook on life.
Now THIS is something we both can definately agree upon.

You need to explain this to a few of our American bruthaz who have some strange notion that the African way is to put the women in charge of the family and community and allow her to be the provider as well as the protector.

I never met any Africans who thought like this but somehow this false belief has spread like wild-fire in the AfroAmerican community.

As for African males dating/marrying Afro American women it’s not widespread at all, in fact this trend is rare and most African men I see doing this use this romance as a way of having immigration papers, I tell you the truth about that. Because as you know, most Africans men don’t like foreign women who don’t know how to please African men, how to lead a good home and how to abide by their woman roles. Although I enjoy the company of a few Afro American girls, they still don’t share my outlook on life. I need a pro-African woman who places great emphasis on my family, my country, my native tongue and the ways of my ancestors. She needs to realize than once she is married to an African man she has to be a good housewife and serve her husband. She MUST please the man and his family! It’s how we do things in traditional Africa. Whom Afro American lady is willing to do that? None I’ve met at least, that’s why I say we should stick to our own women first, those with whom we have the same habits and outlook on life.

You enjoy the company of a few Afro American girls? I bet you do Simba! In case you haven't realized it sir, you just contradicted yourself. You claim that African American men don't have good intention for African women; yet you listed less than noble reasons African men are getting with African American women! Let's not forget that you haven't married any of the Afro American girls who's company you have enjoyed (unlike what I suggested African American men do with African women).

Besides this point, I find the qualities you listed many African women having: great emphasis on family, being a good wife, etc, to be interesting. Maybe these expectations are shared among African American men who are attracted to African women. That could be why they are interested in them....not because they are exotic....nor because of nasty sexual activity....because these women share an outlook on life that they agree with. Look forward to talking to you some more, "brother"!

Pan

Respect

For some African women to prefer white men over AfroAmerican men is bad enough but thats not the worse of it.

It's the deceit and lying that I have the biggest problem with.

How can we get to the bottom of a problem and unite among eachother if we are constantly denying that any exists?

Why must a person get emotional upset before thier true feelings come out.

IF this Kenyan woman I describe declared that dating white men wasn't an issue with so much passion to me that I felt she was genuinely offended that I would even suggest such a notion.

I started to apologize for even bringing it up.

Then on one little spur of the moment of emotional weakness upon seeing a black homeless man, she strikes out against black men in America and tells me how she really feels.

You find this same trait among Asians as well.

They say there is no racism, or claim that only whites practice it and "we're all victims" of it....yet they don't allow their daughters or sisters to be intimate with black men in any way shape or form, yet gladly give them away to white men.

Ralfa'il,

Eh wait a minute I NEVER said I like African women having sex and marrying white men!!! What gives you the reason to think I approve such a disgusting thing!? I’m opposed to interracial relationships, you read me well now?? Many African sisters wouldn’t be with Afro Americans males for diverse reasons, mostly because Africans and Afro Americans contrast culturally, I’ve said this before and Panafirca too, we ought to be honest with ourselves once and for all. We have different ways of looking at things, our desires and our existence are different! If you think proud African males such as myself like to see African women sleeping and having babies with whites mother******s you are dead wrong, and I’ll fight any white man who would touch my sister.

The Kenyan sista you spoke with is right, in large generality Africans prefer their own native folks, not matter what you personally think or claim to see. Every marriage I go to is of an African bortha marrying an African sista, many times whom he brought form Cameroun. But often I see the young African women, born in the US, behaving like the girls on TV wearing skimpy clothing with having bad attitude. I avoid them as much as possible! For these reasons I think they are attracted to white boys, but I smear by my life I have yet to see a woman born and raised in Africa privileging romance with Europeans. Living in Western countries for too long is fundamental in how we think spiritually and emotionally, that’s why I definitely agree with you the Motherland is sacred place for the body, and mind and soul or it should be.

About the position of women, I’ve never agreed with you about that. I’ve never said women ought to be under the man! I simply said they should express their feminity taking leadership roles in their own homes and exercising their power balance in society. In fact, it is how women in Cameroun express their feminity in the village I grew up. In our traditional ways, women are as much the leaders than the males they are stronger psychologically. But they have to get rid of the masculinity of western women. A traditional African woman is feminine, a good housewife, yet very energetic and hardworking. She governs the home and the family affairs. The male must perfectly understand that, like this the woman is the greatest help for him. African women have done revolution, many are brilliant intellectuals, and so they should have their rightful place by the males, as long as they deserve it! I like my woman knowledgeable, revolutionary as well as domestic and sexual, all of that! It’s how I was raised. It’s what I want in spite of all things.

I am an African from Zambia, I was raised and live in Canada and plan on going to college and living in the U.S . I personally want to marry a woman who was born/raised in Canada/America of African parentage. There are many reasons for this, that's who I would feel most comfortable with, who I could relate to the most and who would understand me the best. I don't wanna start trouble on a pan-African website but honestly, I'd rather not deal with the negative Western attitudes and prejudices many American/Caribbean Black people have towards Africans and I don't want to spend the rest of my life dealing with conflict and struggle, differences in perspective, always on the outside looking in, I could go on but I don't know how to say it, this is saying the least. It's something like experiencing the harshest racism at work or at school and coming home to a White wife, even if she wasn't racist ( I'm not attracted to WW and have no natural interest in them so that's another matter ) From what I've read of this thread, for Simba/PanAfrica/Ralfa'l I don't think that someone who describes themselves as pan-Africanist in their thinking should go out of their way to marry a Black woman of another background OR oppose African/BA, African/WI, WI/BA unions, since they do help strengthen pan-Africanism ( not everyone who gets in a relationship with a Black person from another part of the world is pan-Africanist in their thinking any more than all Black people who marry other Black people are pro-Black or Black Nationalist in their thinking, I just mean ,whether it's their intention or not, it does for the obvious reasons strengthen pan-Africanism ). So I understand Simba wondering why some BA men are talking about dating/marrying African women exclusively but I also understand PanAfrica wondering why Simba would have a problem with it, if either of you consider yourselves pan-Africanist I don't know why you would make a distinction period. I never saw myself going out of my way to marry a woman from Zambia or southern Africa, I'd marry any African queen from Nigeria to Rwanda to Eritrea or wherever. I'm not against it, but the idea of a program for BA men to meet African/Caribbean women sounds kind of warped to me, again, if the ideaology behind this is pan-Africanism, I don't understand why a distinction would be made period. Dumb example, but Marcus Garvey was married to a fellow Jamaican and he's remembered as the most avid pan-Africanist in history, same with Malcolm X, married to a fellow Black American and a stronger pan-Africanist then most African/BA unions. I'm not cool with Africans getting into interracial relationships with Whites but that's their business, my kids are my business though, and I have no clue how I'd handle my son or daughter bringing a White woman/man into my home, I don't even want to think about that.

Panafrica you said:

------You enjoy the company of a few Afro American girls? I bet you do Simba! However the qualities you listed many African women having: great emphasis on family, being a good wife... maybe these expectations are shared among African American men who are attracted to African women. That could be why they are interested in them....not because they are exotic....nor because of nasty sexual activity....because these women share an outlook on life that they agree with. Look forward to talking to you some more, "brother"! ------

Oh c’mon I live in America, I take Afro American girls of them have no feeling for Africa and no black pride whatsoever…. But, I am a male form the continent it’s my prerogative to be with women form Africa first and foremost, as it should be yours too with Afro American women. I am not here to be hypocrite and why do we have to bring white folk in this discussion I don’t know, lack of argument perhaps?

Black Africa lacks strength because we look at other people for everything. African women are our women; they should be with African males because we know how to please them the best. How I am supposed to feel when an Afro American male doesn’t respect and/or doesn’t represent the African culture of his wife. It makes me angry I resent that. Most Afro American men establish no contact with the continent, they have no choice but to encourage their African wives to assimilate to the colonialist cultures, it’s extremely hurtful for the future of African folk. These couples make more westernized kids, brainwashed, not willing to do anything for the Motherland.

I don’t want to hear the call of Afro American males dating/marrying our women if they have a colonial mentality, it’s how I see things. The females take on the male customs, if Afro American males establish massive dating habits with African women it’s going to be extremely hurtful for African family. If Afro Americans have still the European mindset it’s the same deal as the Europeans, I say no.

I live in America.........
Simba, my friend, this is the PAN AFRICAN forum.

Panafrica you said:

------You enjoy the company of a few Afro American girls? I bet you do Simba! However the qualities you listed many African women having: great emphasis on family, being a good wife... maybe these expectations are shared among African American men who are attracted to African women. That could be why they are interested in them....not because they are exotic....nor because of nasty sexual activity....because these women share an outlook on life that they agree with. Look forward to talking to you some more, "brother"! ------

Oh c’mon I live in America, I take Afro American girls of them have no feeling for Africa and no black pride whatsoever…. But, I am a male form the continent it’s my prerogative to be with women form Africa first and foremost, as it should be yours too with Afro American women. I am not here to be hypocrite and why do we have to bring white folk in this discussion I don’t know, lack of argument perhaps?

Black Africa lacks strength because we look at other people for everything. African women are our women; they should be with African males because we know how to please them the best. How I am supposed to feel when an Afro American male doesn’t respect and/or doesn’t represent the African culture of his wife. It makes me angry I resent that. Most Afro American men establish no contact with the continent, they have no choice but to encourage their African wives to assimilate to the colonialist cultures, it’s extremely hurtful for the future of African folk. These couples make more westernized kids, brainwashed, not willing to do anything for the Motherland.

I don’t want to hear the call of Afro American males dating/marrying our women if they have a colonial mentality, it’s how I see things. The females take on the male customs, if Afro American males establish massive dating habits with African women it’s going to be extremely hurtful for African family. If Afro Americans have still the European mindset it’s the same deal as the Europeans, I say no.


Simba, it might sound strange, but I kind of understand where you are coming from - to some extent...(smile!)

But, listen, the sweeping generalizations don't do any of us any favors. African Americans not having a consciousness of Africa does not in the least mean that we are unconsious about ourselves - can ya dig it???

We are, for the most part, mad clear about who we are, and who our enemy is... Again, we DO indeed have our very own history here in this country... When my mother and father and relatives were being subjected to the very worst indignities, we never heard from Africans pledging support for our cause... That would've been the perfect time to etch Africa's "enduring" love for her sons and daughters of the sun on every African mind on the planet... It did not happen... We were left to fend for ourselves, and we did a damned good job of that...

That may explain our swagger a little bit, why we tend toward an appearance of feeling ourselves slightly better than some other Africans around the globe. Is that right??? NOPE! I say so unequivocably, that it is a false pride, but I offer it as an explanation for our sometimes flamboyant behavior... When people have gotten kicked in their pants a lot, and then decide there aint gone be no more days like that without a fight, then they tend toward some boastfulness, some swagger... I would that you not take all that to heart, but in the spirit of why it is done... Nothing personal, brother, o.k.?

On the other hand, African American women want the same things other women around the globe want... They are no different, and any implication that they are not is absurd... Don't insult my mother, my sisters, aunts, cousins, and the mother of my babies as if you know them... It makes me to laugh at you, or anyone who makes those kinds of generalizations... And when I start laughing at you, then I've really lost respect for you...

So let's keep this about our personal experiences - all of us... The sweeping generalizations just impale us more permanently on the spike of ignorance...

Peace!
Isaiah

The sweeping generalizations just impale us more permanently on the spike of ignorance...

that what i be trying to say to you, yo.

Oh c’mon I live in America, I take Afro American girls of them have no feeling for Africa and no black pride whatsoever…. But, I am a male form the continent it’s my prerogative to be with women form Africa first and foremost, as it should be yours too with Afro American women. I am not here to be hypocrite and why do we have to bring white folk in this discussion I don’t know, lack of argument perhaps?

Black Africa lacks strength because we look at other people for everything. African women are our women; they should be with African males because we know how to please them the best. How I am supposed to feel when an Afro American male doesn’t respect and/or doesn’t represent the African culture of his wife. It makes me angry I resent that. Most Afro American men establish no contact with the continent, they have no choice but to encourage their African wives to assimilate to the colonialist cultures, it’s extremely hurtful for the future of African folk. These couples make more westernized kids, brainwashed, not willing to do anything for the Motherland.

I don’t want to hear the call of Afro American males dating/marrying our women if they have a colonial mentality, it’s how I see things. The females take on the male customs, if Afro American males establish massive dating habits with African women it’s going to be extremely hurtful for African family. If Afro Americans have still the European mindset it’s the same deal as the Europeans, I say no.

There are plenty of Africans in Africa who have a "colonial mindset” make no mistake about that (and they didn't learn this mindset from African Americans). However, if you date African American girls…excuse me Afro American girls, but have no serious intentions towards them: You are no better than the Europeans & African American males who you criticize for exploiting African women. You may not want to hear about Afro American men dating/marrying “your” women, but it will happen whether or not you agree with it! Not every African comes to America and dates African Americans to kill the time, until they find a "true" African to get with. Not every African is looking for a green card. Some of them fall in love and get married.

To address your concerns about Afro American males bringing a colonial mentality to African women. I would imagine that most African American men who were interested in African women, would have an identity with Africa. If not they could seek out any women. Like Isaiah said you don’t know all African Americans (like I don’t know all about Africa), so you aren’t in a position to say what the majority of Afro American men do or don’t do. In fact I would say this with great certainty in your case. You live in America, but you need to come on this website to learn about African Americans. Actually you are the second member to come among us with this angle. I wonder what prevents you from being able to know about people who you live with? It makes me suspect that ya’ll aren’t as observant as you are trying to portray (or as you want to believe)!

that what i be trying to say to you, yo.

James, I am starting to laugh at you, and that's not good(smile!) For a senior citzen/elder, you say some of the dumbest stuff...

Peace!
Isaiah

Panafrica you said:

------You enjoy the company of a few Afro American girls? I bet you do Simba! However the qualities you listed many African women having: great emphasis on family, being a good wife... maybe these expectations are shared among African American men who are attracted to African women. That could be why they are interested in them....not because they are exotic....nor because of nasty sexual activity....because these women share an outlook on life that they agree with. Look forward to talking to you some more, "brother"! ------

Oh c’mon I live in America, I take Afro American girls of them have no feeling for Africa and no black pride whatsoever…. But, I am a male form the continent it’s my prerogative to be with women form Africa first and foremost, as it should be yours too with Afro American women. I am not here to be hypocrite and why do we have to bring white folk in this discussion I don’t know, lack of argument perhaps?

Black Africa lacks strength because we look at other people for everything. African women are our women; they should be with African males because we know how to please them the best. How I am supposed to feel when an Afro American male doesn’t respect and/or doesn’t represent the African culture of his wife. It makes me angry I resent that. Most Afro American men establish no contact with the continent, they have no choice but to encourage their African wives to assimilate to the colonialist cultures, it’s extremely hurtful for the future of African folk. These couples make more westernized kids, brainwashed, not willing to do anything for the Motherland.

I don’t want to hear the call of Afro American males dating/marrying our women if they have a colonial mentality, it’s how I see things. The females take on the male customs, if Afro American males establish massive dating habits with African women it’s going to be extremely hurtful for African family. If Afro Americans have still the European mindset it’s the same deal as the Europeans, I say no.

An African woman marrying an 'AfroAmerican' is NOT the same as dating/marrying a European.

And why would AfroAmerican men have connection with Africa? They weren't born there, they were born in America so the American lifestyle is what they know. If they marry an African woman, (as should anyone who takes a mate that is a different nationality), they should make an effort to learn about her culture, and possess some concern for her community. This is of course if she herself takes interest and pride in her original culture.

James, I am starting to laugh at you, and that's not good(smile!) For a senior citzen/elder, you say some of the dumbest stuff...

Peace!
Isaiah
that's cool with me as you never hear what i say anyhow.
so let's just agree to disagree and forget about it.

BTW - as a past member of Mensa the dumbness is not coming from my end................

Whatever you say Panafrica LOL…

It’s obvious you have your feelings hurt, so you go on saying the things you say. As for Isaiah, you say you have no respect for me, what’s new? Since when Afro Americans have shown blatant respect to Africans? And of course we must speak in general. Why not? Trends/statistics are not our little personal experiences. Are they? I was encouraged to post on this site by a friend, it has positive debates I have to say but I should be able to say what I have to say, yes or no?

To answer your question, or concern Panafrica I usually don’t hang out with non-African Blacks because I can’t relate to most of them. I cannot blame them, either, if they have been influenced by whites for so long, for too long! Panafrica you say Africans are as much brainwashed as African Americans? You have no clue do you? Africans have a poor political Nationalist stance and they believe too much the lies of whites I agree, but sorry my friend, most African brothas and sistas born and raised in the Motherland have substantial African cultural desires and mannerism in them.

It’s not really Afro Americans' fault after all because of the slave trade and Willy Lynchism which reap the substance of African mannerism in the Afro American population, but as much as you try (or don’t even try -some members here are clear about that- ) you never connect genuinely with the Motherland! Isaiah is not denying this fact which is good, but you Panafrica I feel you are a hypocrite. What are you looking for? Do you care to teach your kids an African language? Do you care to speak one yourself? Do you feel compelled your kids take traditional initiation rituals back home? How about responding to ALL the needs of your wife folks do you do that? I bet you will say you do.. Whatever you are doing, your African wife has forsaken the substance of her roots, while you could have built a saner home with an African American woman.

I’ve been reading your post for many days, and despite you say no all of sudden, most of you are not the expert of Africans, our mindset and issues! You talk nonsense about tribalism in Africa and other non substantial rhetoric about Africans on the continent. I have beef with that I had to say something.

I am glad brother African Prince posted, a little bit of perspective in this thread won’t hurt. I don’t profess to speak for all African males, but at least you are reading 2 African males in this thread who have been there and done that as far as Afro American/Africans relationship goes. Our posts might hurt your feelings I am sorry, they make you laugh oh well, and you have no respect for me Simba I can take it. You still need not to be blind about the true feelings of Africans towards you. It shouldn’t accommodate you to think about the continent with such romantism ignoring how Africans see and feel. The dating/marrying Afro Americans is producing anything for us, wake up to that!

As for me dating Afro American women, I do it hardly. I prefer the pro-black mindset and comfort of an African sister. As for now I am celibate it’s a sacrifice I need to make as the majority of Afro Americans cannot understand me. And that’s what most of the posters in this thread continue to say, and African Prince say the same thing! So why be angry at ME? Wake up Afro American males! It’s time for you to take care of your own business, to work hard to change your own women and strengthen your own family. It's the whole point of being Black/African Nationalists, Yes or NO?

I am a proud Béti and fang form Cameroun. I don’t like to share, especially our women who should stay with us African men to run things and work to make our country better. Sorry to be honest with you!

Whatever you say Panafrica LOL…It’s obvious you have your feelings hurt, so you go on saying the things you say. As for Isaiah, you say you have no respect for me, what’s new? Since when Afro Americans have shown blatant respect to Africans? And of course we must speak in general. Why not? Trends/statistics are not our little personal experiences. Are they? I was encouraged to post on this site by a friend, it has positive debates I have to say but I should be able to say what I have to say, yes or no?

To answer your question, or concern Panafrica I usually don’t hang out with non-African Blacks because I can’t relate to most of them. I cannot blame them, either, if they have been influenced by whites for so long, for too long! Panafrica you say Africans are as much brainwashed as African Americans? You have no clue do you? Africans have a poor political Nationalist stance and they believe too much the lies of whites I agree, but sorry my friend, most African brothas and sistas born and raised in the Motherland have substantial African cultural desires and mannerism in them.

As for me dating Afro American women, I do it hardly. I prefer the pro-black mindset and comfort of an African sister. As for now I am celibate it’s a sacrifice I need to make as the majority of Afro Americans cannot understand me. And that’s what most of the posters in this thread continue to say, and African Prince say the same thing! So why be angry at ME? Wake up Afro American males! It’s time for you to take care of your own business, to work hard to change your own women and strengthen your own family. It's the whole point of being Black/African Nationalists, Yes or NO?

I am a proud Béti and fang form Cameroun. I don’t like to share, especially our women who should stay with us African men to run things and work to make our country better. Sorry to be honest with you!

Why would my feelings be hurt Simba? Your opinions certainly don't effect me one way or another. I'm already married to one of "your" women, who is pregnant with my second child. I've been accepted by her family, which is the only African approval that I needed. You think your opinion is more important than it really is. Actually I should make one correction, my wife isn't one of your women, she is a Bubi, which the Fang consider to be enemies....tribalism....you know about that! Most African Americans don't connect with Africans because of the negative attitudes that you have displayed. Fortunately I do know many Africans on a personal level, and know that you don't represent the majority. You say most Africans born & raised in Africa have substantial African cultural desires and mannerism in them? I would sincerely hope this is true; however, you are in America my friend....LOL! Do I need to say more? You can drop the superior act! Again this forum is about PanAfricanism. It is obvious that you are not a PanAfricanist, so I believe your friend referred you to the wrong site. At the very least, you have become fascinated with the wrong section.

Don't get me wrong Simba, I appreciate your efforts to be honest with me. However you also need to be honest with yourself. If you are honest with yourself, then you'd be swallowing the medicine you are trying to give to Afro Americans. If you were taking care of your own business, to work hard to change your own women and strengthen your own family. Then you'd still be in Cameroon would you not? Instead of dating Afro American women, while wishing for your countrywomen. Instead of looking down on African Americans, but living among them. Tribalism...too many black folk subscribe to it. It is the very reason Africa was able to be colonized by Europe to begin with. How is your French by the way? It seems some people are forever willing to continue the divide. Those of us who are progressive will move on without you. In closing, I loved Cameroon's performance in the last World Cup! Good talking with you.

In the eyes of white culture we are all BLACK... doesn't matter if you're AfroAmerican or African. And frankly, it is absolutely disgusting that some Africans and AfroAmericans have created cultural divides among themselves in this country. I am sickened of the 'I'm better than you complex' being spewed out by both sides.

Simba, if you want to stick with an African woman, good for you, but don't make the assumption that if an African woman dates/marries an AfroAmerican man that she's selling out from her heritage!

Wake up Afro American males! It’s time for you to take care of your own business, to work hard to change your own women and strengthen your own family. It's the whole point of being Black/African Nationalists...........
:boring: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, what?
you are in america telling me to wake up?

when you are in africa, perhaps i will listen to you.
since you are here you must think it's better here.
how do you think it got that way?

i think you are the one who needs to wake up and open your eyes.
you are in my country, show some manners.

:boring: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, what?
you are in america telling me to wake up?

when you are in africa, perhaps i will listen to you.
since you are here you must think it's better here.
how do you think it got that way?

i think you are the one who needs to wake up and open your eyes.
you are in my country, show some manners.

What the Lion King needs is some credibility. He 1st talked about African Americans exploiting African women, and not having noble intentions towards them. Yet he later revealed that he dates African American women, and viewed them in a more negative light than he accused African Americans of. Then he started to claim the superiority of Africans, while living in America. Yes credibility...the more Simba talked, the less he had!

you Panafrica I feel you are a hypocrite. What are you looking for? Do you care to teach your kids an African language? Do you care to speak one yourself? Do you feel compelled your kids take traditional initiation rituals back home? How about responding to ALL the needs of your wife folks do you do that? I bet you will say you do.. Whatever you are doing, your African wife has forsaken the substance of her roots, while you could have built a saner home with an African American woman.
I’ve been reading your post for many days, and despite you say no all of sudden, most of you are not the expert of Africans, our mindset and issues! You talk nonsense about tribalism in Africa and other non substantial rhetoric about Africans on the continent. I have beef with that I had to say something....I am glad brother African Prince posted, a little bit of perspective in this thread won’t hurt. I don’t profess to speak for all African males

One thing we can agree on Simba, you don't speak for all African males. Which is something I'm already aware of. I do wonder if you live with me, or know me personally, because you asked me things on a personal level: Do I teach my kids an African language? Can I speak one myself? Do I feel compelled to have my children take traditional initiation rituals back home? The only people who have the right to demand these questions of me is my wife's father & his brothers. If they were satisfied with my ability & willingness to do this....or my unwillingness to do this. Then it is really none of your concern. You are just a name on a computer screen, who has only been here for 3 seconds, be clear about that Simba. You are not in a position to question anyone's legitimacy.

I have some advice for you Simba, which you need to take to heart. If you aren't satisfied with the way Africa is presented on Destee.com...if you don't believe in PanAfricanism, then form your own site! This would be better than coming into an African American website and telling us to improve (which apparently is a pattern with you). Until you are willing to do this, you are not in a position to tell us anything. Unless you do this, you will have to be content with my postings on Africa. Which I have a greater knowledge of than you want to believe (demonstrated in the many threads I have posted). In fact, I know enough to contradict a lot of your claims. For instance it isn't enough to teach my kids an African language, I would have to teach them "their" language. What good is it to teach them Wolof when they are Bubi? You don't want to be with an African American woman, rather an African woman. However, "your" women are Fang women. If you take a Ashante woman, a Kikuyu woman, or a Masaii woman for a wife then their customs are not yours, and you are guilty of doing what you accuse me of! You never made that distinction, and I noticed it because many African men who live outside of African don't marry within their particular ethnic group (if they marry African at all). This is their effort to stay connection with a land that they left. When Africans leave Africa they become as Westernized as their neighbors. I can show you this in the white acting African children at one of my schools, and the ones with pants hanging off their butts at my other school. None of whom speak "an African languague". Unless you consider French an African language.

I contradict myself, yeah right...

I’m simply suggesting that the Afro American men care, date and marry their OWN women. What’s wrong with that?!!!

I live in America so what? I can’t speak my mind on this forum because I’m living in America? You guys spend all day talking about Africa, yet you would rather stay in the US, so what’s your point? You post a bunch of threads regarding the current situations on the continent do you live over there? NO! That’s what I thought James from Philadelphia!

I repeat, Panafrica you are a hypocrite. You could care less if your wife's family really like you or not. Tis attitude is a totally a western one! A simple “OK” from your “wife’s folks is not enough my friend. I bet they don’t like you, I think you admitted this one yourself on this very site, somewhere... I admit, I am not a Panafricanist, I am posting in the Panafrican forum because I felt the urge to post a response in this thread!

Yeah Panafrica, it seems you got yourself a good African sister who gives you babies and the rest. I am supposed to be happy about that?? Hell no!

I have no problem with the Bubi people. However, I am a very proud Bantu Fang. We are the majority in Equatorial Guinea and I am happy about that. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want a Bubi woman in fact they look nice! I just dislike non-Africans going with African women for silly reasons and/or exotic escapism.

As spare me your “French” speech. Do you identify with the Spanish of your Equatoguinean woman? k I am not puppet of the Europeans!!! I don’t have a ******* Spanish name, not a French one either! I piss on the French if you want to know. I piss on anybody who continues to trouble Africa! So-called African Americans and West Indians don’t give a **** about Africa. Most are antagonistic to Africans just like the French, the Spanish and the Anglos! I respond to your posts with honesty. So I repeat, I feel a union with our women is not genuine.

Panafrica is always bragging about his Bantu Equatoguinean woman, yet he finds no reason to serve her family like he’s supposed to! You see anything wrong with that because you are not African, you can’t understand! You people act up. No matter what you say about Africa, it’s obvious you give a **** about the Motherland. Really!

I am not tribalist concerning Africans, but I see any African manners or thinking in MOST African Americans, not even in you, the so-called “Panafricanist” you claim to be. You are unwilling to answer my questions because you could care less about strict reverence to African customs and traditions. As for me not posting here if I don’t like it. It’s cool, I don’t plan to install here either. Most of your posts about the continent and African people are shocking to me in many ways, shocking because they are naïve or romantic and empty.

I repeat, Panafrica you are a hypocrite. You could care less if your wife's family really like you or not. Tis attitude is a totally a western one! A simple “OK” from your “wife’s folks is not enough my friend. I bet they don’t like you, I think you admitted this one yourself on this very site, somewhere... I admit, I am not a Panafricanist, I am posting in the Panafrican forum because I felt the urge to post a response in this thread!

Yeah Panafrica, it seems you got yourself a good African sister who gives you babies and the rest. I am supposed to be happy about that?? Hell no!

I have no problem with the Bubi people. However, I am a very proud Bantu Fang. We are the majority in Equatorial Guinea and I am happy about that. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want a Bubi woman in fact they look nice! I just dislike non-Africans going with African women for silly reasons and/or exotic escapism.

As spare me your “French” speech. Do you identify with the Spanish of your Equatoguinean woman? k I am not puppet of the Europeans!!! I don’t have a ******* Spanish name, not a French one either! I piss on the French if you want to know. I piss on anybody who continues to trouble Africa! So-called African Americans and West Indians don’t give a **** about Africa. Most are antagonistic to Africans just like the French, the Spanish and the Anglos! I respond to your posts with honesty. So I repeat, I feel a union with our women is not genuine.

Panafrica is always bragging about his Bantu Equatoguinean woman, yet he finds no reason to serve her family like he’s supposed to! You see anything wrong with that because you are not African, you can’t understand! You people act up. No matter what you say about Africa, it’s obvious you give a **** about the Motherland. Really!

Wow Simba, now who has their feelings hurt? Calm down there buddy! At least we have two things we agree about now: We both agree that you don't speak for all African men. Now we both agree that Bubi women look nice! About the rest though....How do you figure I'm a hypocrite? There isn't anything hypocritical about a PanAfricanist being married to an African woman. You don't have a clue how I feel about my wife's family. You don't know anything about how I live my life. The only way you could possibly know this, is if you knew me personally. You don't, stop reaching for straws. I realize that you want to discredit me, but you need to think of another way to do so. If anyone has been hypocritical in their message it has been yourself. If anyone needs to prove themselves, you do (you only just got here, and are an unknown). I'd have an easier time believing your African superiority angle, and that you aren't a puppet of Europe if you hadn't revealed that you live in America! So you hate the Spanish (whom the Fang of Equatorial Guinea allied themselves with during Colonization), you hate the British, and you hate the French. Apparently you loved the white people of America, because that is where you decided to rest your hat! Black man please get out of here with that garbage!

Panafrica you said:

--------------------- One thing we can agree on Simba, you don't speak for all African males. Which is something I'm already aware of. I do wonder if you live with me, or know me personally, because you asked me things on a personal level: Do I teach my kids an African language? Can I speak one myself? Do I feel compelled to have my children take traditional initiation rituals back home? The only people who have the right to demand these questions of me is my wife's father & his brothers. If they were satisfied with my ability & willingness to do this....or my unwillingness to do this. Then it is really none of your concern. You are just a name on a computer screen, who has only been here for 3 seconds, be clear about that Simba. You are not in a position to question anyone's legitimacy.

I have some advice for you Simba, which you need to take to heart. If you aren't satisfied with the way Africa is presented on Destee.com...if you don't believe in PanAfricanism, then form your own site! This would be better than coming into an African American website and telling us to improve (which apparently is a pattern with you). Until you are willing to do this, you are not in a position to tell us anything. Unless you do this, you will have to be content with my postings on Africa. Which I have a greater knowledge of than you want to believe (demonstrated in the many threads I have posted). In fact, I know enough to contradict a lot of your claims. For instance it isn't enough to teach my kids an African language, I would have to teach them "their" language. What good is it to teach them Wolof when they are Bubi? You don't want to be with an African American woman, rather an African woman. However, "your" women are Fang women. If you take a Ashante woman, a Kikuyu woman, or a Masaii woman for a wife then their customs are not yours, and you are guilty of doing what you accuse me of! You never made that distinction, and I noticed it because many African men who live outside of African don't marry within their particular ethnic group (if they marry African at all). This is their effort to stay connection with a land that they left. When Africans leave Africa they become as Westernized as their neighbors. I can show you this in the white acting African children at one of my schools, and the ones with pants hanging off their butts at my other school. None of whom speak "an African languague". Unless you consider French an African language. ------------------------------

Tribalism of the African is a big deal so what? Like I said, it exists EVERYWHERE, the fact that the Afro-Americans fails to break bread with Africans proves it. As a whole of course African kids born and raised in America, or Europe or Canada or whichever Western countries they are, are not enlightened about Africa, its customs and lifestyles, that’s a big problem, because then they fail to have the best Afrocentric mind. They become lazy and hate Africa. We observe the failing, incapable acts of Western Blacks who have superior feelings towards African. You talk about the tribalism of Africans, just look at those of the Afro-Americans, replace it with ours!

Moreover, you an Afro-American man are showing yourself proud of being incapable of being the man of an Afro-American woman! Shame on you!

You are quick to blame me; at least I don’t hasten to marry a foreign woman to satisfy any lust, or a “we are one people” fantasy. I see no problem with dating/marrying a Dahoman, Bubi, Peuhl or Bambara woman; they are pure African women. And as the woman takes her man culture I see no problem at all. But I have profound revulsion when others (especially the cynical ones) take the grip of what’s ours.

Tribalism of the African is a big deal so what? Like I said, it exists EVERYWHERE, the fact that the Afro-Americans fails to break bread with Africans proves it. As a whole of course African kids born and raised in America, or Europe or Canada or whichever Western countries they are, are not enlightened about Africa, its customs and lifestyles, that’s a big problem, because then they fail to have the best Afrocentric mind. They become lazy and hate Africa. We observe the failing, incapable acts of Western Blacks who have superior feelings towards African. You talk about the tribalism of Africans, just look at those of the Afro-Americans, replace it with ours!

Moreover, you an Afro-American man are showing yourself proud of being incapable of being the man of an Afro-American woman! Shame on you!

You are quick to blame me; at least I don’t hasten to marry a foreign woman to satisfy any lust, or a “we are one people” fantasy. I see no problem with dating/marrying a Dahoman, Bubi, Peuhl or Bambara woman; they are pure African women. And as the woman takes her man culture I see no problem at all. But I have profound revulsion when others (especially the cynical ones) take the grip of what’s ours.

You have no problem with dating Dahoman, Bubi, Peuhl or Bambara women. Apparently you don't have a problem dating African American women either, despite your stance to the contrary. Again you have displayed the hypocricy, not myself. As far as Afro-Americans failing to "break bread" with Africans. What do you think PanAfricanism is about? You are taking out your anger & frustrations with the wrong person Simba. Save it for the white man!

Panafrica you said:

---------- So you hate the Spanish (whom the Fang of Equatorial Guinea allied themselves with during Colonization), you hate the British, and you hate the French. Apparently you loved the white people of America, because that is where you decided to rest your hat! Black man please get out of here with that garbage! --------------

If I am a hypocrite to your eyes, you are 100% to mine! Check your own life buddy, you are living in the US just like me. Do you want to transform Equatorial Guinea’ society, Yes or NO? I bet you prefer stay in America living a cozy life! You put a mask of a Panafricanist, but you don’t fool me, you are quite content to be with a woman from Black Africa without having a substantial role in her culture. You are proud to live where you live and you have NO shame saying meaningless things about Africans and Africans on message boards. So Panafrica please, check yourself!!!

If I am a hypocrite to your eyes, you are 100% to mine! Check your own life buddy, you are living in the US just like me. Do you want to transform Equatorial Guinea’ society, Yes or NO? I bet you prefer stay in America living a cozy life! You put a mask of a Panafricanist, but you don’t fool me, you are quite content to be with a woman from Black Africa without having a substantial role in her culture. You are proud to live where you live and you have NO shame saying meaningless things about Africans and Africans on message boards. So Panafrica please, check yourself!!!

Wow that really sounds personal Simba. It is quite presumptious to make all these claims against someone who you don't know. It is also amusing to me with you being a Fang telling me what I need to do with Equatorial Guinea. If I wanted to transform Equatorial Guinean society, a large part of that goal would be to remove the oppressive & genocidal Fang rule! That is what the Bubi want to do, don't you know that? You are encouraging me to help bring down your people...not African, but your specific Ethnic Group! That is self-hatred on a whole other level! Or maybe you didn't know this...you must not know as much about Africa as I do. At this point I'm just going to tell you to get a clue & a life!

Panafrica you said:

--------------- You have no problem with dating Dahoman, Bubi, Peuhl or Bambara women. Apparently you don't have a problem dating African American women either, despite your stance to the contrary. Again you have displayed the hypocricy, not myself. As far as Afro-Americans failing to "break bread" with Africans. What do you think PanAfricanism is about? You are taking out your anger & frustrations with the wrong person Simba. Save it for the white man! ---------------

From time to time, I USED to date Afro-American girls. However they never made the effort to understand me, or represent genuine Afrocentrism! So it’s justified I never married one of them. You criticize the Afro-American ladies yourself? YOU DIDN’T MAKE AN EFFORT TO MARRIED ONE OF THEM, and you speak to me? You elaborate long threads about the love/sex exchange between Afro-Americans and Africans to make possible more westernization/brainwashing for Africans I am supposed to shut up about it? What wrong with Afro-American males sticking to their own women if, like Isaiah and other posters in this website say very often, Afro-American people have no responsibility in transforming Africa or even bridging gap with Africans! What’s wrong with what “I” say then???

And, it’s not my fault if this thread I’m responding to is in the so-called “Panafrican” forum!

I contradict myself, yeah right...

I’m simply suggesting that the Afro American men care, date and marry their OWN women. What’s wrong with that?!!!

I live in America so what? I can’t speak my mind on this forum because I’m living in America? You guys spend all day talking about Africa, yet you would rather stay in the US, so what’s your point? You post a bunch of threads regarding the current situations on the continent do you live over there? NO! That’s what I thought James from Philadelphia!

I repeat, Panafrica you are a hypocrite. You could care less if your wife's family really like you or not. Tis attitude is a totally a western one! A simple “OK” from your “wife’s folks is not enough my friend. I bet they don’t like you, I think you admitted this one yourself on this very site, somewhere... I admit, I am not a Panafricanist, I am posting in the Panafrican forum because I felt the urge to post a response in this thread!

Yeah Panafrica, it seems you got yourself a good African sister who gives you babies and the rest. I am supposed to be happy about that?? Hell no!

I have no problem with the Bubi people. However, I am a very proud Bantu Fang. We are the majority in Equatorial Guinea and I am happy about that. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want a Bubi woman in fact they look nice! I just dislike non-Africans going with African women for silly reasons and/or exotic escapism.

As spare me your “French” speech. Do you identify with the Spanish of your Equatoguinean woman? k I am not puppet of the Europeans!!! I don’t have a ******* Spanish name, not a French one either! I piss on the French if you want to know. I piss on anybody who continues to trouble Africa! So-called African Americans and West Indians don’t give a **** about Africa. Most are antagonistic to Africans just like the French, the Spanish and the Anglos! I respond to your posts with honesty. So I repeat, I feel a union with our women is not genuine.

Panafrica is always bragging about his Bantu Equatoguinean woman, yet he finds no reason to serve her family like he’s supposed to! You see anything wrong with that because you are not African, you can’t understand! You people act up. No matter what you say about Africa, it’s obvious you give a **** about the Motherland. Really!

Simba, if these are your honest and sincere feelings, I aint mad'atcha. On a personal level, I've experienced the good, the bad, the ugly, the gamut of Continental African thinking as regards African Americans, and African American thinking regarding Africans, so I am not surprised... I do, however, feel we need to work these things out, as hating on one another worse than we do our real enemies reflects things about both of us that are shameful - if you ask me... It says we're both sorrowfully brainwashed, and mentally poisoned...

That is why I sort of chuckled at your implication that ALL Continental African women are somehow CONSCIOUS of their Africaness, and thus, the time and what must be done... Listen, brother, African American women - at least none that I know of, or have ever met - aren't doing the skin-bleaching thing as is most popular on the continent... African Caribbean women aren't doing that kind of stuff either, and this reflects their self-concept in a positive way... I was, also, taken aback by your phrases "your women" and "our women", as if the sisters are our possession, and not God's...

Brother, if that is the way my folk are thinking on the continent, changes are in order. If you still believe that tribal affiliations are cool despite all the carnage that has resulted from the system, changes are in order. If you still believe that you and other Continental Africans possess the sole right to define and determine what is, and is not, African, then you're blind to the African Diasporan's power to determine what is, and is not, for themselves.


Africa, in truth, is multi-cultural... There is no homogenous African Culture, language, country, food, educational system, religion... We in the United States and La Caribena, are all that you are not, truth be told, because we borrowed from all... We transformed it all, here, in the west, to suit our purposes, and that is something you seem incognizant of. Many years ago, I read Cheihk Anta, Theophile Obenga, Dr. Ben, Dr. Clarke, Rashidi, and thought THAT was what my culture was all about, that was what was important... I have come to realize that THAT didn't get me this far, but the culture my ancestors hammered out from virtually nothing, is what got me here, and I am most proud of that...

If Continental Brothers and sisters cannot find it within themselves to respect OUR HISTORY and TRADITIONS, that is fine. If they cannot look in the face of an African American and see themselves, or listen to our music, or eat our Sweet Potato Pie, and hear, and taste Africa in that, so be it... You fool none so blind as yourselves, and prompt nothing but jeers and laughter from those whom you call hypocrites and nkata, and cotton-picker... We had to pick that cotton because sell-out TRIBAL NEGROES whom some call chiefs and kings, sold our ancestors(their brothers and sisters)into hell, and don't have the cujones to admit that 500 years later...

No one is begging Continental African approval nor legitimacy here... You don't decide who I am... You are no different than the White Man, thinking yourself the legitimizer of my humanity... What kind of silliness...what kind of drugs are you taking, brother???(smile!) PanAfricanism is a African Diasporan Concept... Continental Africans are, and have always been, too caught up in who belongs to this tribe and that one, to be concerned with the whole of Black Humanity...

That is why we are in this horrible condition we are in today, where every wrinkled little European weakling could come unto the continent and flex its muscle like a world power, or something - because AFricans are too busy fighting one another to have energy to fight their real enemies... This is what the tribalism thread was about, brother... Are you so arrogant as to believe that you cannot learn something from me, an African American? BTW, I am an AFRICAN american! Afros are hair dos, brother...

Peace!
Isaiah

you are in America.
America is filled with Afro Americans.
unless you plan on leaving soon, i would suggest you learn to get along with us.
this is for your benefit, not ours.
we will be perfectly happy without you.

rather than barging in with a lot of arrogance why don't you chill and study?
you have chosen to be in the US so you must find something good about us.

It is quite presumptious to make all these claims against someone who you don't know. It is also amusing to me with you being a Fang telling me what I need to do with Equatorial Guinea. If I wanted to transform Equatorial Guinean society, a large part of that goal would be to remove the oppressive & genocidal Fang rule! That is what the Bubi want to do, don't you know that? You are encouraging me to help bring down your people...not African, but your specific Ethnic Group! That is self-hatred on a whole other level! Or maybe you didn't know this...you must not know as much about Africa as I do.

Simba my confused African friend, until you deal with what I wrote to you here...there is nothing left to say to you!

Panafrica my phony panafricanist friend, if you only believe what your wife tells you, it's easy to believe the crap you do! You're biased it's obvious.

Isaiah and James from Philadelphia it's cool. I have no desire to bring any of your so-called African American "culture" with me in Cameroon. I am in the US for work not to become a thug or a westernized "African" believe me. I expect nothing from you either, you can't understand me, you are unwilling to understand Africans... and you can't even help yourselves!

Panafrica my phony panafricanist friend, if you only believe what your wife tells you, it's easy to believe the crap you do! You're biased it's obvious.

Isaiah and James from Philadelphia it's cool. I have no desire to bring any of your so-called African American "culture" with me in Cameroon. I am in the US for work not to become a thug or a westernized "African" believe me. I expect nothing from you either, you can't understand me, you are unwilling to understand Africans... and you can't even help yourselves!

Brother, much success to you in your business endeavors... I hope that you are able to help yourself and your countrymen in a way that makes conversations like this unnecessary. We'll all be better for it...

Pan, don't play into the madness, brother... It's beneath you...

Peace!
Isaiah

Yeah, this conversation is "beneath" you because I'm not going along with your romantic BS about the relationships between Africans and "African" Americans.... I saw Panafrica picture he seems to be a mulatto! Now I understand his LUST for African women. LOL !!!

Brother, much success to you in your business endeavors... I hope that you are able to help yourself and your countrymen in a way that makes conversations like this unnecessary. We'll all be better for it...
Pan, don't play into the madness, brother... It's beneath you...

I agree brother Isaiah, I recognize an idiot when I encounter one. If I had any doubt, Simba removed it with the ignorance he displayed about the Bubi and Fang in Equatorial Guinea (which is something he should be aware of if he is as close to his culture as he claims). I'm moving on, got better things to do with my time!

Yeah, this conversation is "beneath" you because I'm not going along with your romantic BS about the relationships between Africans and "African" Americans.... I saw Panafrica picture he seems to be a mulatto! Now I understand his LUST for African women. LOL !!!


Simba, don't make me start laughin' at'cha, now(smile!) Read my threads in this forum... Brother, I have ZERO illusions about cats like yourself... I have oft told African Americans in this Pan Africanism Forum that they have a romantic vision of Africa and Africans, and been called to task for it... So your words ring exceedingly hollow when directed at me, the "American Thug" you seem to despise more than you do your real enemies...

Wanna know something Simba??? You embody all of the western traits you claim have contaminated African Americans... In fact, you have it in greater quantity than we do... All of the arrogance and false pride dripping from every last one of your posts, are, to me, the stamp of the white man all up in ya... That's how he behaves, that's how he carries himself, and he has taught you well, to be as ugly as he is... Um, Um, UMMM...

Lastly, brother, I neglected to mention that Willie Lynch Syndrome is a name we have attached to how the White mAN DIVIDED Here in this country... So we know that a rape of our conscious minds was committed, and we are commited to doing something about it... When you cannot put a finger on such a phenomenon, or give it a name, it is likely to be because you don't think anything happened to you, and all is well...

Well, White Man did the same to you on the continent that he did to us, here... In fact, he did it worse to you, because he made y'all lie down on your soil, and kiss his behind... Today, you gone act like it didn't happen with all this breast beating you're doing up in here... Brother Rap, you fool none so blind as SIMBA... Now, gone on do your bidness, and get on up, man(smile!) Aint nuthin' you can teach us about Africa, because you don't even know yourself...

Peace!
Isaiah

Because I don't want to discuss the relation between the Bubi and the Fang people doesn't mean I am ignorant.. I have no beef with Africans in general, I have beef with "African" Americans. And why I should care about Equatorial Guinea? I am from Cameroon **** it! The Fang are in many parts of Africa so what? This little bit of a country that nobody talk about is not my concern!

Because I don't want to discuss the relation between the Bubi and the Fang people doesn't mean I am ignorant.. I have no beef with Africans in general, I have beef with "African" Americans. And why I should care about Equatorial Guinea? I am from Cameroon **** it! The Fang are in many parts of Africa so what? This little bit of a country that nobody talk about is not my concern!

So you have finally dropped the Afro American brother routine? It was apparent that angle was an act anyway. It is also apparent that you don’t feel all Africans are your brothers/sisters either: “This little bit of a country that nobody talk about is not my concern”. You don’t stand up under a microscope Simba. Indeed your claims don’t make any sense. You hate Afro Americans and white people. You are a patriot of Cameroon, and only have love for Africans. Yet you are living in America, and despite your claims of only being here for work….apparently you have been here for some time. Yet you are telling us we need to wake up? Yea right! For your information, the Fang of Equatorial Guinea are from Cameroon! They are not the original people of Equatorial Guinea, the Bubis are. They migrated from Cameroon and worked on Spanish Cocoa plantations, because the Bubis refused to work for the Spanish. Unlike the Fang who became Spanish lap dogs. When Equatorial Guinea gained independence in 1968, the Spaniards appointed a Fang (Macias Nguema) president because they felt the Fang would be most likely to maintain Spain’s will. These Fang are your people, and since Cameroon is next to E. Guinea, you should know about it. That is if your knowledge of Africa is what you claim, which apparently it isn't. Take your beef with African Americans elsewhere!

you can't understand me, you are unwilling to understand Africans... and you can't even help yourselves!
sounds like N.A.S. to me.
a fine example of why we have such difficulty mounting a challenge to the white man.
we are too busy ragging on each other.

Wow, brothers I see egos and anger flying all up in this peice. However,this is important conversation. After extensively reading your posts I as an woman born in amerikkka, of African descent, married to an African conclude that Simba is a self-hating African, who has reaped the benefits of our suffering here in amerikkka without appreciating that fact that he is here and working here and sounds like he is in like flynn here, because of the sacrafices Africans of amerikkka.

Where is our thank you Simba ?!!

How dare he speak to my brothers with such distain, when we pan-Africanists are risking our lives by even speaking truth to power let alone participating in pan-Africanist activities that are viewed by this government to be subversive.

Simba, move on, because the more you speak the more you show your self-hate and lack of knowledge.

Pan and I are testamants not only to Afrakan hopes and dreams, but to the survival of Afraka and Afrakans. We are going to either have to love each other or die.

Now I am not saying that Afrakans from the diaspora have to marry Afrakans to save all Afrakans. But I am saying that we must find a way to love, way way deep in our hearts for one another because it ain't about us, it is about our children and about our future all of us as Afrakan people.

Simba, you are clearly selfish and self hating and you epotimize what is wrong with Afraka. It is all about you!

Afraka is a patiachal mess because of men like you, (no matter what spiritual system you claim), think first of all Afrakan women belong to you, you can treat them like crap, they have no voice, and they are suppose to loyal to only you.

You better wake up in smell the Afrakan coffee my brother. We either better learn how to live together or die!

Yeah, this conversation is "beneath" you because I'm not going along with your romantic BS about the relationships between Africans and "African" Americans.... I saw Panafrica picture he seems to be a mulatto! Now I understand his LUST for African women. LOL !!!

That is uncalled for. :puke2:

This community is about UNITING blacks of ALL SKIN TONES, and NATIONALITIES. You've gone over the line insulting Pan because of his color.

If you don't like the thought of uniting with AfroAmericans, then please find another site that will cater to your Africans are superior, Afroamericans are nothing beliefs!

We are going to either have to love each other or die.................
Simba, Simba, can you read?

I know of all this discussion this is a petty thing to respond to but

" Listen, brother, African American women - at least none that I know of, or have ever met - aren't doing the skin-bleaching thing as is most popular on the continent... African Caribbean women aren't doing that kind of stuff either,"

Plenty Caribbean women bleach and be careful whom you align yourself with like they're going to have the same buddy buddy mentality, I've heard many Caribbean Black people say incredibly harsh and cold things about Africans and Black Americans and many will (admittingly) side with non-Blacks born in the Caribbean then non-Caribbean Blacks.

This discussion went so far I forgot everything I may have wanted to say.

Simba- I agree, frankly, with some of what you had to say but I don't think you have a right to judge PanAfrica or the relationship he has with his wife. Don't worry, most Black Americans will continue to date/marry other Black Americans and of all the ignorant Black Americans I've had little web wars with as far as I know PanAfrica respects and loves his wife and her family, of all the Black Americans/West Indians who have hatred for Africans you're focused on one whose married to an African queen and considers himself a pan-Africanist ( he didn't put a gun to her head either), he's also not a 'mullatoe'. I've been thinking and the truth is, what I agree with you on, is that pan-Africanism doesn't really benfit continental Africans, I mean, redecorating your room may be good in itself but it won't put food on the table, clothes on your back or pay your bills, Africans uniting with the descendents of African slaves brought to the Western hemipshere may be good, sentimentally, in itself but it doesn't really help Africa,African/Caribbean/AfroLatino immigrants uniting with BA's in the USA or African/Caribbean Blacks in Europe/Canada because they share a common struggle with racism is another chapter but it doesn't really help the Africans back home, race is not the end all say all in the world, as important as it is to me and the truth is Western Blacks are part of the Western world, it's a tragedy how they came to be but they did and I think pan-Africanism may distract us from focussing on the Continent. African/diasporan Black relationships won't really help Africa, neither does the brain drain to be honest.

I don't see a need to instigate rivalry between the Fang and the Bubi( and how is this helpful to pan Africanism?), colonialists have always used puppets and divide and conquer tactics and a lot of Western Blacks argue that Africans themselves fight one another and tribalism blah blah blah but most African aren't tribalists ( only two African civil wars that were ethnicity based come to mind and of all her problems, I really actually don't think tribalism is the biggest, it doesn't matter if people in poverty , not to stereotype all Africa, are united or not, they're still in poverty, what does it mean to be united really, to indentify with one another) and lets not generalize and assume all Fang people supported Macias Nguema ( I read that name before, wasn't he a dictator ) anymore than all Hutus supported the Interhemehru (sp? )/ Hutu extremist militia in Rwanda. I consider myself an African first and foremost, my experiences made me who I am. I have never ever been disciminated against or experienced prejudice because I was Zambian or Bemba only because a) I was Black or b) I was African, maybe my mentality would be different if I was around in Nigeria during the late 60s Biafra war or a Hutu/Tutsi in Rwanda but I wasn't. When Simba said it wasn't his concern, maybe he was talking about the rivalry.

Also a petty thing but " None of whom speak "an African languague". Unless you consider French an African language."

They live in America but are speaking French? If they came from a French speaking country and they can still speak French but not their own language?

About "your women" , "your women" is whoever you consider "your people".

"When Africans leave Africa they become as Westernized as their neighbors. I can show you this in the white acting African children at one of my schools, and the ones with pants hanging off their butts at my other school."

Maybe, but they still have ties to the Continent, they are just Westernized. I can't speak or understand my language, English is the only language I know but it's not my ethnic language. English is the natural language of American and West Indian Black people, even though they have their own dialects, like I said its a tragedy how they became a part of the Western world but they are a part of the Western world.the 'slave name' thing used to bother me so much when I considered myself a pan-Africanist but the truth is Engligh is their language, a European language yes, but if you were to say "okay, this is you're true language", Black Americans are an amalgamation of several mostly West African ethnic groups, again, it is sad( how it came to be, families seperated, slavery etc. ), but English is their language, cultures dominate over others, change, assimilate etc. over time, this is human history in this case it just came from another race ( hope that doesn't sound stupid). It doesn't really have anything to do with the convo, but Black American culture isn't distinct from Western culture at large and I don't mean that in the "they have no identity" stereotype, I mean from an anthropological, not African, perspective , people associate 'culture' as behaviour and mannerisms but the real fundamental values of any culture are it's language and religion, it goes back to diasporan Blacks being a part of the Western world and culturally Western. They will always be of African descent though and what they have in common with Africans is race.

"So-called African Americans and West Indians don’t give a **** about Africa. Most are antagonistic to Africans just like the French, the Spanish "

this may be the norm, but you have no reason to believe it is the case with Pan Africa or that he doesn't respect his wife and her culture. My post may be all jumbled but it's because I'm replying to everything at once.

Simba- I agree, frankly, with some of what you had to say but I don't think you have a right to judge PanAfrica or the relationship he has with his wife. Don't worry, most Black Americans will continue to date/marry other Black Americans and of all the ignorant Black Americans I've had little web wars with as far as I know PanAfrica respects and loves his wife and her family, of all the Black Americans/West Indians who have hatred for Africans you're focused on one whose married to an African queen and considers himself a pan-Africanist ( he didn't put a gun to her head either), he's also not a 'mullatoe'. I've been thinking and the truth is, what I agree with you on, is that pan-Africanism doesn't really benfit continental Africans, I mean, redecorating your room may be good in itself but it won't put food on the table, clothes on your back or pay your bills, Africans uniting with the descendents of African slaves brought to the Western hemipshere may be good, sentimentally, in itself but it doesn't really help Africa,African/Caribbean/AfroLatino immigrants uniting with BA's in the USA or African/Caribbean Blacks in Europe/Canada because they share a common struggle with racism is another chapter but it doesn't really help the Africans back home, race is not the end all say all in the world, as important as it is to me and the truth is Western Blacks are part of the Western world, it's a tragedy how they came to be but they did and I think pan-Africanism may distract us from focussing on the Continent. African/diasporan Black relationships won't really help Africa, neither does the brain drain to be honest.

I don't see a need to instigate rivalry between the Fang and the Bubi( and how is this helpful to pan Africanism?), colonialists have always used puppets and divide and conquer tactics and a lot of Western Blacks argue that Africans themselves fight one another and tribalism blah blah blah but most African aren't tribalists ( only two African civil wars that were ethnicity based come to mind and of all her problems, I really actually don't think tribalism is the biggest, it doesn't matter if people in poverty , not to stereotype all Africa, are united or not, they're still in poverty, what does it mean to be united really, to indentify with one another) and lets not generalize and assume all Fang people supported Macias Nguema ( I read that name before, wasn't he a dictator ) anymore than all Hutus supported the Interhemehru (sp? )/ Hutu extremist militia in Rwanda. I consider myself an African first and foremost, my experiences made me who I am. I have never ever been disciminated against or experienced prejudice because I was Zambian or Bemba only because a) I was Black or b) I was African, maybe my mentality would be different if I was around in Nigeria during the late 60s Biafra war or a Hutu/Tutsi in Rwanda but I wasn't. When Simba said it wasn't his concern, maybe he was talking about the rivalry

Brother African_Prince:

I can respect your views, you present them in a way that leaves no choice but to respect it! I think PanAfricanism will benefit all black people on a political, economic, and social level. Not everyone agrees, and if you don't that is fine. Time will tell who is right. To answer your question about Equatorial Guinea: Macias Nguema is a Fang who launched a genocidal campaign against the Bubi in the early 1970s, that decimated their population. By 1979 he had killed or exiled 1/3 of Equatorial Guinea's population (some of those killed happened to be my wife's family members). This was very much like the Hutus/Tutsi massacre in Rwanda. Macias was replaced by his nephew, Teodoro Obiang Nguema, who continues to run the country. Under his rule, the Bubi are still oppressed by the Fang majority. This is not my wife's version of events or bias...it is historical fact! You can do your own research (I invite anyone reading this to do that same), and you will find the same version of events as I have written them.

Despite this fact...For the record, I don't care to promote tribalism between the Bubi & Fang. Like I said before, I don't subscribe to tribalism. I was simply demonstrating to Simba, who questioned my knowledge of my wife's people, just how much I know about my wife's people & country. Ironically the very person who questioned my knowledge on these issues, happened to belong to the last ethnic group that needed to question me on it. He wants to know if I am willing to help my wife's people. I could best help my wife's people, by removing Simba's people from Equatorial Guinea. That is the truth, and it is what Bubis want. However that does not mean I am going to do that. This is why it isn't wise to make assumptions about who people are, and what they do or don't know. Apparently Simba's problem is that "Afro Americans" don't connect with Africans, and have rejected him in America. Yet the very person he attacks, is one who is trying to build such a connection. That is strange indeed!

Brother African_Prince:

I can respect your views, you present them in a way that leaves no choice but to respect it! I think PanAfricanism will benefit all black people on a political, economic, and social level. Not everyone agrees, and if you don't that is fine. Time will tell who is right. To answer your question about Equatorial Guinea: Macias Nguema is a Fang who launched a genocidal campaign against the Bubi in the early 1970s, that decimated their population. By 1979 he had killed or exiled 1/3 of Equatorial Guinea's population (some of those killed happened to be my wife's family members). This was very much like the Hutus/Tutsi massacre in Rwanda. Macias was replaced by his nephew, Teodoro Obiang Nguema, who continues to run the country. Under his rule, the Bubi are still oppressed by the Fang majority. This is not my wife's version of events or bias...it is historical fact! You can do your own research (I invite anyone reading this to do that same), and you will find the same version of events as I have written them.

Despite this fact...For the record, I don't care to promote tribalism between the Bubi & Fang. Like I said before, I don't subscribe to tribalism. I was simply demonstrating to Simba, who questioned my knowledge of my wife's people, just how much I know about my wife's people & country. Ironically the very person who questioned my knowledge on these issues, happened to belong to the last ethnic group that needed to question me on it. He wants to know if I am willing to help my wife's people. I could best help my wife's people, by removing Simba's people from Equatorial Guinea. That is the truth, and it is what Bubis want. However that does not mean I am going to do that. This is why it isn't wise to make assumptions about who people are, and what they do or don't know. Apparently Simba's problem is that "Afro Americans" don't connect with Africans, and have rejected him in America. Yet the very person he attacks, is one who is trying to build such a connection. That is strange indeed!

My heart goes out to your wife and her family and all the other EquitoGuineans affected by this. I'm sure all the Fang don't approve of Nguema or his nephew ( removing the Fang from Equatorial Guinea is not the answer, it may be forgotten from an outside perspective, but that's actually where the colonial minded Hutu militia in 1994 Rwanda claimed they were coming from, retaliating ) but I don't question your relationship with your wife or the respect you have for her/her family or her people.

Sorry to interrupt but now that I've got a couple African men in the same room I can't resist the opportunity...

Simba and African Prince, take a look at this thread:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34143&page=1


and tell me what you think about what I said and the reaction I got.

"So-called African Americans and West Indians don’t give a **** about Africa. Most are antagonistic to Africans just like the French, the Spanish " this may be the norm, but you have no reason to believe it is the case with Pan Africa or that he doesn't respect his wife and her culture.

I would like to deal with this one view (shared by Simba and Brother African_Prince). I don't think it is the norm for African Americans and those in the Carribean to be antagonistic towards Africans. I simply feel that those who happen to be antagonistic towards Africans are more visible & vocal. The same goes for Africans who are antagonistic towards African Americans and African Carribeans (which was witnessed in this thread). If Africans could see the African American college students clamoring to take classes in African history & African dance...the people on the street that go to African celebration festivals like the Afram....they'd be surprised. We should not let the opinions of the misinformed and misguided cloud our opinions about a people. It also needs to be recognized that PanAfricanism is an effort to unite all black people. Whether or not you agree or belive in it...it should be recognized & respected for what it is.

[QUOTE=African_Prince]I know of all this discussion this is a petty thing to respond to but

" Listen, brother, African American women - at least none that I know of, or have ever met - aren't doing the skin-bleaching thing as is most popular on the continent... African Caribbean women aren't doing that kind of stuff either,"

Plenty Caribbean women bleach and be careful whom you align yourself with like they're going to have the same buddy buddy mentality, I've heard many Caribbean Black people say incredibly harsh and cold things about Africans and Black Americans and many will (admittingly) side with non-Blacks born in the Caribbean then non-Caribbean Blacks.

My brother, African Prince, I made the comment with the intent to sting, to bring this brother back to reality - and I don't regret making the statement at all... Sometimes people need to be hammered much in the way they are hammering and bullying others... I, also, bid the man success in his business endeavors, and a safe trip back to the Camerooun... Didn't see that, didya??? Yes, and you and I know why...

Brother, don't assume you know more than I do about African Caribbean people... I've lived in the midst of them all of my 46 years on the planet, and I know all about the antagonisms between African Caribbeans and African Americans... I know all too well the many ways in which African Caribbeans and African Americans have worked together to secure some semblence of respect and self-determination for ALL African descended folk, and I will stand with them as my brothers and sisters no matter what they say, because their ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER than their words...

I don't hear African Caribbeans coming into this forum talking down to me, and other African Americans, ridiculing us, and telling us we have a "so-called" culture, brother... I don't see African Caribbeans coming into this forum demaning our women, calling us "mulattoes", telling us, in effect, to stay in our place, as if they took the words right off the slavemasters tongue, and then telling us how "westernized" we are... You glossed all over that AFrican Prince, now didn't you... No need for a war of words here... Just admit that, and let's move on brother...

Strangely enough, I echo some of Simba's feelings about us not "needing" the company of one another... We've obviously gotten along for a long time without it, so that's really no revelation... My concern is that we learn to appreciate and understand one another better... I get the impression from some Continental brothers - in particular - that they have a dislike for African Americans that borders hatred. As we have never done anything to Africans on the continent, I wonder where this stuff is coming from... So what, I am different from you... That does not automatically equate to this level of hatred, man... No! Something else is afoot here, and we need to get the core of it!

We can never get to the core of it, however, by masking our fear behind bravado, and taking sides based on Tribe rather than truth...

Peace!
Isaiah

... I get the impression from some Continental brothers - in particular - that they have a dislike for African Americans that borders on hatred. As we have never done anything to Africans on the continent, I wonder where this stuff is coming from... So what, I am different from you... That does not automatically equate to this level of hatred, man... No! Something else is afoot here, and we need to get the core of it!

good point.

i wonder about that myself.
could it be that we are seen as being from a different "tribe", or maybe no "tribe" at all?
what's worse, to have no tribe at all or to be from a different tribe?

are continentals just programmed to have a negative attitude toward anyone who is different?

African Prince I appreciate your posts, in spite of you somehow siding with “African” Americans, I judge them based on their superiority air they have towards Africans! I am not afraid to say my truth in this website, if I am expected to kiss someone’s behind please let me know. Is it not simply pathetic the way Panafrica expect me to know particularly well the problem in Equatorial Guinea? Well, I have other concern on my mind! Cameroon has been fighting with Nigeria for years over ethnic and territory clashes does anyone care about that? The Bubi are not the original people of Equatorial Guinea either, they migrated there. So what is his point? President Obiang and the Equatoguinean Government are excessively repressive, but it’s utterly naïve to think the Bubi and Fernandino parties would themselves have a better government knowing the most visible Western presence (colonization) in the country. With an overwhelming Euro/US presence and relations between Equatorial Guinea and the West, do you think the Bubi opposition rule would have been constructed more positively and constructively? I don’t think so! In Africa all rule are ethnically based, and most of these rules use repressive actions against the less dominate population, all right!

Moreover, like I said, the Fang live in so many African countries: in Gabon, Central African Republic, Nigeria, Congo/Brazzaville, etc. Do you think I know all the activities and ethnic tensions of the Fang in those countries? I barely have an idea of what the Fang group have been up to in Gabon just next to Cameroon! WHY? Because I am clearly not caught up in having disputes with Africans! An African woman from Equatorial Guinea could bring me as much pleasure as a Cameroonian; we basically can understand each other. We eat the same way and we live the same way! Whereas, you say this yourself African Prince, “African” undertook a massive de-africanization! They are modified, their psyche and needs are not the same! And today we see how MOST they are content to look down on Africans! They think they are successful being stateless people in a white man country! LOL! You guys claim you battle exceptionally against the colonialists, what African liberation movements didn’t? Malcom X and other “African” American militants didn’t follow the example of the struggle of liberation in Africa??? They surely did! But this is barely acknowledged by you, and you claim I owe your people to work in America? You are a laughing stock whereas the Asian and Arab people, and even Africans come here and work a million times better and prosper a millions times more than you. Clearly, you are a people with no vision, content to remain in a soil that doesn’t belong to you! Today, I work in America, but I am fully conscious of my responsibilities in Cameroon! I am going to return in my own county in a couple years when my employment contract ends. It’s inevitable, but I am surely not going to marry an “African” American woman to stay here. I am not caught up on that.

As for Panafrica, being a “good” husband to an African woman I doubt it! A de-Africanized Black man is imperfect. We Africans men have clear ideas of African cultures, so of course we satisfy African women the best. However if an African woman doesn’t want to express and live the full dimension of African tradition, if she ignores men of her own stock, ultimately she is going to build a family with an “African” American, just what Panafrica’s wife did. Their family is imperfect. Besides, Panafrica being a mulatto obviously their “African” family is really imperfect; that’s what I think.
Indeed, let’s not be blind about the weakness of “African” American heritage of the substance of African culture. Even Isaiah is proud to say the “African” Americans have roots in a colonial soil, that’s explain everything, seeing how they take pride in disassociating with Africans. And we don’t need them either, that’s why I cannot overlook Panafrica having the sublime guts and naivety to encourage a coupling agenda between “African” American men and African women. “African” American men behave in such a fashion with Africans that his call is pure nonsense.

As for my take on matriarchy, I am an African man. I grew up among strong, intelligent and proud African women. I ought adoration to all African women and other Black women if they serve and respect the African man! “African” American men on here criticize African women for bleaching their skin, but they overlook how “African” American women have lost their health in fast food, they are so fat they have lost their beauty. They are lazy and a large number are content to hurt the Black man, it’s shocking!

As for you Ms. pdiane who saw the necessity to marry an African man, you surely saw that African men are about the business of building strong families. We are hard workingmen, not thugs, and most of us have the traditional African quality you are looking for, that’s why you didn’t marry an “African” American man. You were incapable of such of thing that proves your own bias toward your own people but you are mad at “me”... oh well.

I’ve said enough for now, until then goodbye.

Jamesfrmphillly you said:

---------------------could it be that we are seen as being from a different "tribe"?
or maybe no "tribe" at all?
are continentals just programmed to have a negative attitude toward anyone who is different?-----

Well to be true, like African Prince said, your identity is Western. You cannot manifest a traditional “tribal” African Nationalism because a) you are hostile to manifest it, b) you are substantially no longer Africans. Don’t blame a proud African man like myself to manifest African Nationalism that you manifest yourself, but you call it “African” Americanism.

African Prince I appreciate your posts, in spite of you somehow siding with “African” Americans, I judge them based on their superiority air they have towards Africans! I am not afraid to say my truth in this website, if I am expected to kiss someone’s behind please let me know. Is it not simply pathetic the way Panafrica expect me to know particularly well the problem in Equatorial Guinea? Well, I have other concern on my mind! Cameroon has been fighting with Nigeria for years over ethnic and territory clashes does anyone care about that? The Bubi are not the original people of Equatorial Guinea either, they migrated there. So what is his point? President Obiang and the Equatoguinean Government are excessively repressive, but it’s utterly naïve to think the Bubi and Fernandino parties would themselves have a better government knowing the most visible Western presence (colonization) in the country. With an overwhelming Euro/US presence and relations between Equatorial Guinea and the West, do you think the Bubi opposition rule would have been constructed more positively and constructively? I don’t think so! In Africa all rule are ethnically based, and most of these rules use repressive actions against the less dominate population, all right!

Moreover, like I said, the Fang live in so many African countries: in Gabon, Central African Republic, Nigeria, Congo/Brazzaville, etc. Do you think I know all the activities and ethnic tensions of the Fang in those countries? I barely have an idea of what the Fang group have been up to in Gabon just next to Cameroon! WHY? Because I am clearly not caught up in having disputes with Africans! An African woman from Equatorial Guinea could bring me as much pleasure as a Cameroonian; we basically can understand each other. We eat the same way and we live the same way! Whereas, you say this yourself African Prince, “African” undertook a massive de-africanization! They are modified, their psyche and needs are not the same! And today we see how MOST they are content to look down on Africans! They think they are successful being stateless people in a white man country! LOL! You guys claim you battle exceptionally against the colonialists, what African liberation movements didn’t? Malcom X and other “African” American militants didn’t follow the example of the struggle of liberation in Africa??? They surely did! But this is barely acknowledged by you, and you claim I owe your people to work in America? You are a laughing stock whereas the Asian and Arab people, and even Africans come here and work a million times better and prosper a millions times more than you. Clearly, you are a people with no vision, content to remain in a soil that doesn’t belong to you! Today, I work in America, but I am fully conscious of my responsibilities in Cameroon! I am going to return in my own county in a couple years when my employment contract ends. It’s inevitable, but I am surely not going to marry an “African” American woman to stay here. I am not caught up on that.

As for Panafrica, being a “good” husband to an African woman I doubt it! A de-Africanized Black man is imperfect. We Africans men have clear ideas of African cultures, so of course we satisfy African women the best. However if an African woman doesn’t want to express and live the full dimension of African tradition, if she ignores men of her own stock, ultimately she is going to build a family with an “African” American, just what Panafrica’s wife did. Their family is imperfect. Besides, Panafrica being a mulatto obviously their “African” family is really imperfect; that’s what I think.
Indeed, let’s not be blind about the weakness of “African” American heritage of the substance of African culture. Even Isaiah is proud to say the “African” Americans have roots in a colonial soil, that’s explain everything, seeing how they take pride in disassociating with Africans. And we don’t need them either, that’s why I cannot overlook Panafrica having the sublime guts and naivety to encourage a deceitful coupling agenda between “African” American men and African women. “African” American men behave in such a fashion with Africans that his call is pure nonsense.

As for my take on matriarchy, I am an African man. I grew up among strong, intelligent and proud African women. I ought adoration to all African women and other Black women if they serve and respect the African man! “African” American men on here criticize African women for bleaching their skin, but they overlook how “African” American women have lost their health in fast food, they are so fat they have lost their beauty. They are lazy and a large number are content to hurt the Black man, it’s shocking!

As for you Ms. pdiane who saw the necessity to marry an African man, you surely that saw African men are about the business of building strong families. We are hard workingmen, not thugs, and most of us have the traditional African quality you are looking for, that’s why you didn’t marry an “African” American man. You were incapable of such of thing that proves your own bias toward your own people but you are mad at “me”... oh well.

I’ve said enough for now, until then goodbye.


Brother, you said more than ENOUGH, already! Gone get on that plane, and please don't do as much damage back home as you've done here... Good riddance to you...

Peace!
Isaiah

Is it not simply pathetic the way Panafrica expect me to know particularly well the problem in Equatorial Guinea? I’ve said enough for now, until then goodbye.

What is simply pathetic is your obsession with someone who you don't know. Since you can not stay true to your word about staying away, that decision is going to be made for you very soon!

[QUOTE=African_Prince]I know of all this discussion this is a petty thing to respond to but

" Listen, brother, African American women - at least none that I know of, or have ever met - aren't doing the skin-bleaching thing as is most popular on the continent... African Caribbean women aren't doing that kind of stuff either,"

Plenty Caribbean women bleach and be careful whom you align yourself with like they're going to have the same buddy buddy mentality, I've heard many Caribbean Black people say incredibly harsh and cold things about Africans and Black Americans and many will (admittingly) side with non-Blacks born in the Caribbean then non-Caribbean Blacks.

My brother, African Prince, I made the comment with the intent to sting, to bring this brother back to reality - and I don't regret making the statement at all... Sometimes people need to be hammered much in the way they are hammering and bullying others... I, also, bid the man success in his business endeavors, and a safe trip back to the Camerooun... Didn't see that, didya??? Yes, and you and I know why...

Brother, don't assume you know more than I do about African Caribbean people... I've lived in the midst of them all of my 46 years on the planet, and I know all about the antagonisms between African Caribbeans and African Americans... I know all too well the many ways in which African Caribbeans and African Americans have worked together to secure some semblence of respect and self-determination for ALL African descended folk, and I will stand with them as my brothers and sisters no matter what they say, because their ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER than their words...

I don't hear African Caribbeans coming into this forum talking down to me, and other African Americans, ridiculing us, and telling us we have a "so-called" culture, brother... I don't see African Caribbeans coming into this forum demaning our women, calling us "mulattoes", telling us, in effect, to stay in our place, as if they took the words right off the slavemasters tongue, and then telling us how "westernized" we are... You glossed all over that AFrican Prince, now didn't you... No need for a war of words here... Just admit that, and let's move on brother...

Strangely enough, I echo some of Simba's feelings about us not "needing" the company of one another... We've obviously gotten along for a long time without it, so that's really no revelation... My concern is that we learn to appreciate and understand one another better... I get the impression from some Continental brothers - in particular - that they have a dislike for African Americans that borders hatred. As we have never done anything to Africans on the continent, I wonder where this stuff is coming from... So what, I am different from you... That does not automatically equate to this level of hatred, man... No! Something else is afoot here, and we need to get the core of it!

We can never get to the core of it, however, by masking our fear behind bravado, and taking sides based on Tribe rather than truth...

Peace!
Isaiah

I have yet to read the rest of the thread and respond to more posts but first I'd like to respond to this one post. I think you misunderstood what I was saying, all I said was a) plenty of Caribbean women bleach ( and most African/Caribbean or even other parts of the world don't ), this is a fact and b) I was just saying matter of factly that many Caribbean Black people don't feel a bond towards Africans or Black Americans I wasn't even discouraging you from identifying with them ( you probably think Im 'jealous', right? ) I was just pointing this out that whatever Simba has said about Black Americans I've heard PLENTY Caribbean people say harsher things about Black Americans ,and Africans for that matter ,so don't put that on Africans alone. Most of the Black people where I live are of Caribbean background and I have a couple cousins studying in the Caribbean ( one said he had bad experiences with AfroCubans who looked down on him, another of my cousins was born/raised in JA, ). And I know you didn't make the comment to "sting", it wasnt even one of the more important things to respond to, but just because they don't come to this board doesn't mean their aren't plenty of Caribbean people who look down on Black Americans just in itself and also complain of negative treatment from them. You've been around longer than I have and I don't claim to be more of an expert of Caribbean people than you but I know what I know. I've heard Caribbean people who side with Black Americans over Africans, I've heard Caribbean people who side with Africans over Black Americans and I've heard Caribbean people who identify with neither or both ( personally I always think of Caribbean Black people as being in the middle, like Africans they predominate in their country but like Black Americans and Black Latinos, they share the same legacy of slavery). I don't care about any of this, personally, I was just telling you 'matter of fact' ly.

I also wasn't saying Black Americans are such a 'cultureless' and 'lost' people when I said they were a part of the Western world, I knew that would be interpreted as "Africans look down on us as having no identity blah blah blah" but I was only saying it from an anthropological perspective. Diasporan Blacks are a part of the Western world and are culturally Western and nobody really wants to see this, but like I said how this came about was tragic and unfortanate but is the case nonetheless. BA's have said this themselves and it was actually on another board that I heard a BA poster comment that the truth is most people associate culture with behaviour and mannerism but that's not the totality of culture, Black Americans are as much Americans as White Americans ( wouldn't you agree that after 400 years that country belongs to them rightly as well ) and the U.S is a part of the Western world, they speak a European language, traditionally practice a European religion, I consider myself an African first/foremost before nationality or 'tribe' but the truth is as a group they have no one specific African ethnic group to return to, they are an amalgamtion of several mostly West African ethnic groups and of course some White/Native American ancestry. I don't know if this will make sense, but in most African cultures the child takes on the fathers identity and around the world most children take their fathers last name, so if you wanted to find out your "true tribe" and trace your foremost paternal ancestor to a Yoruba, and JamesFromPhilly traced his foremost paternal ancestor to a Wolof and Queen Latifah traced her foremost paternal ancestor to an Irishman or Cherokee Native American ,you can't divide the three of you because you belong to the same clearly defined ethnic group, so which one 'tribe' or language will you all claim as a group. People also underestimate how important a language is to a culture, Antwone Fisher put it in Finding Fish that is was like a people's 'toolbox', language carries a peoples culture and gives them heir identity, how different would our lives be if Punjabi was the only language we could speak/understand? It's not an insult, diasporan Black people, will always be of African descent, but they are culturally Western and apart of the Western world, they have their own cultures yes but it's not wholly seperate and distinct from Western culture at large. I'll try and respond to any other posts later.

"As we have never done anything to Africans on the continent, I wonder where this stuff is coming from"

I know I don't live in the U.S but it always kills me how some Black Americans really wonder why some Africans resent Black Americans,right or wrong, I mean really. 41 Senegalese cab drivers have been murdered in Harlem New York ( I know this can be an economically depressed area where taxi drivers are often targeted ), I've heard so many stories about Africans who would get into physical fights with BA's at high schools on a daily basis, be teased ruthlessly because of their names or accents,asked if they had AIDS, told that all Africans were jet black and ugly, smelled like ****, I've experienced this with some Caribbean Black people ( it can be especially bad in the UK, I've heard of Caribbean people making monkey noises when Africans are speaking their languages nearby, violence between the two, a Somali girl being stabbed almost to death because a group of Jamaicans suspected she was Somali, Jamaican boys coming out with machetes telling some Africans to "go back where you came from", setting pitbulls on Africans, siding with political parties that would put an end to African refugees tbeing allowed in the the UK,I've heard *some* West Indians in N.America, openly admit hating Africans etc. ) I can't even keep track or put it all here but I am always literally shocked, in all dead seriousness, when I hear Black Americans legitimatly wander why some Africans resent them. Everyone knows that, and again, Pan Africa may be right in saying that the pro-pan-African BA's don't get any attention, but realistically everyone around the **** world knows that Black Americans have a reputation for disliking and being downright hatefull towards African, do a survey anywhere around the world about how people think Black Americans look at Africans and I bet they'll echo what I'm saying as well as many Black Americans who will openyl admit they dislike or downright hate Africans don't tell me you've never had an 'anti African'( to say the least ) comment from Black Americans in your entire life before you wonder why Africans are the ones who 'hate' Black Americans. I'll try and respond to any other posts later.

African Prince I appreciate your posts, in spite of you somehow siding with “African” Americans, I judge them based on their superiority air they have towards Africans! I am not afraid to say my truth in this website, if I am expected to kiss someone’s behind please let me know. Is it not simply pathetic the way Panafrica expect me to know particularly well the problem in Equatorial Guinea? Well, I have other concern on my mind! Cameroon has been fighting with Nigeria for years over ethnic and territory clashes does anyone care about that? The Bubi are not the original people of Equatorial Guinea either, they migrated there. So what is his point? President Obiang and the Equatoguinean Government are excessively repressive, but it’s utterly naïve to think the Bubi and Fernandino parties would themselves have a better government knowing the most visible Western presence (colonization) in the country. With an overwhelming Euro/US presence and relations between Equatorial Guinea and the West, do you think the Bubi opposition rule would have been constructed more positively and constructively? I don’t think so! In Africa all rule are ethnically based, and most of these rules use repressive actions against the less dominate population, all right!

Moreover, like I said, the Fang live in so many African countries: in Gabon, Central African Republic, Nigeria, Congo/Brazzaville, etc. Do you think I know all the activities and ethnic tensions of the Fang in those countries? I barely have an idea of what the Fang group have been up to in Gabon just next to Cameroon! WHY? Because I am clearly not caught up in having disputes with Africans! An African woman from Equatorial Guinea could bring me as much pleasure as a Cameroonian; we basically can understand each other. We eat the same way and we live the same way! Whereas, you say this yourself African Prince, “African” undertook a massive de-africanization! They are modified, their psyche and needs are not the same! And today we see how MOST they are content to look down on Africans! They think they are successful being stateless people in a white man country! LOL! You guys claim you battle exceptionally against the colonialists, what African liberation movements didn’t? Malcom X and other “African” American militants didn’t follow the example of the struggle of liberation in Africa??? They surely did! But this is barely acknowledged by you, and you claim I owe your people to work in America? You are a laughing stock whereas the Asian and Arab people, and even Africans come here and work a million times better and prosper a millions times more than you. Clearly, you are a people with no vision, content to remain in a soil that doesn’t belong to you! Today, I work in America, but I am fully conscious of my responsibilities in Cameroon! I am going to return in my own county in a couple years when my employment contract ends. It’s inevitable, but I am surely not going to marry an “African” American woman to stay here. I am not caught up on that.

As for Panafrica, being a “good” husband to an African woman I doubt it! A de-Africanized Black man is imperfect. We Africans men have clear ideas of African cultures, so of course we satisfy African women the best. However if an African woman doesn’t want to express and live the full dimension of African tradition, if she ignores men of her own stock, ultimately she is going to build a family with an “African” American, just what Panafrica’s wife did. Their family is imperfect. Besides, Panafrica being a mulatto obviously their “African” family is really imperfect; that’s what I think.
Indeed, let’s not be blind about the weakness of “African” American heritage of the substance of African culture. Even Isaiah is proud to say the “African” Americans have roots in a colonial soil, that’s explain everything, seeing how they take pride in disassociating with Africans. And we don’t need them either, that’s why I cannot overlook Panafrica having the sublime guts and naivety to encourage a coupling agenda between “African” American men and African women. “African” American men behave in such a fashion with Africans that his call is pure nonsense.

As for my take on matriarchy, I am an African man. I grew up among strong, intelligent and proud African women. I ought adoration to all African women and other Black women if they serve and respect the African man! “African” American men on here criticize African women for bleaching their skin, but they overlook how “African” American women have lost their health in fast food, they are so fat they have lost their beauty. They are lazy and a large number are content to hurt the Black man, it’s shocking!

As for you Ms. pdiane who saw the necessity to marry an African man, you surely saw that African men are about the business of building strong families. We are hard workingmen, not thugs, and most of us have the traditional African quality you are looking for, that’s why you didn’t marry an “African” American man. You were incapable of such of thing that proves your own bias toward your own people but you are mad at “me”... oh well.

I’ve said enough for now, until then goodbye.

there is much bitterness and hatred in your words...you are worse then me when i talk about american white people...has an "african" american person ever infringed upon your rights or stolen anything from you? you seem to have fallen in the trap that the white man has set up for you...hating on your distant cousins like we are your enemy...i rarely come to this forum but your malicious words made me take notice...you have proven yourself, in your short time on this forum, to be a black devil...i am truly glad that the bitterness in your heart is not reflective of the total opinion of "african" americans from the vantage point of africans...i am shamed to even consider you my brother...TIMES UP...my confused poster

"one" love
khasm

Pan Africa may be right in saying that the pro-pan-African BA's don't get any attention, but realistically everyone around the **** world knows that Black Americans have a reputation for disliking and being downright hatefull towards African, do a survey anywhere around the world about how people think Black Americans look at Africans and I bet they'll echo what I'm saying as well as many Black Americans who will openyl admit they dislike or downright hate Africans don't tell me you've never had an 'anti African'( to say the least ) comment from Black Americans in your entire life before you wonder why Africans are the ones who 'hate' Black Americans. I'll try and respond to any other posts later.

I seriously doubt that brother African_Prince. There definately isn't any hatred for Africans coming from the African Americans in this community, this includes those who don't consider themselves PanAfricanist or Black Nationalist. This community reflects the African American community more closely than you might believe. Many African Americans cite hostility from Africans as a reason why we can't connect. There have been more examples of Africans hating on African Americans here, and we are seeing quite a hateful & disgusting display from Simba happening in this thread (this also reflects our dynamics more than you might want to believe). I would suspect that if African Americans have a reputation for hating Africans abroad....that reputation is created by people like Simba who return to their countries and spew their venom! Just because African Americans are stereotyped in other countries does not make them true. I assure you that you don't want African Americans to believe everything we hear about Africans.

Panafrica you said: ----------What is simply pathetic is your obsession with someone who you don't know. Since you can not stay true to your word about staying away, that decision is going to be made for you very soon!-------------

I have my so-called “evil” eye on you because you have no qualm stealing African women from African men! You have failed to strengthen the “African” American family and the African one at the same time. Your words are naive and empty. To me you are a shocking demagogue. Now, if am no longer able to post on this site because I am being honest, then BAN me in order to make sure how you really feel about Africans!

African Prince I will respond to you tomorrow (if I still can), as for now I have to go.

African Prince I appreciate your posts, in spite of you somehow siding with “African” Americans, I judge them based on their superiority air they have towards Africans! I am not afraid to say my truth in this website, if I am expected to kiss someone’s behind please let me know. Is it not simply pathetic the way Panafrica expect me to know particularly well the problem in Equatorial Guinea? Well, I have other concern on my mind! Cameroon has been fighting with Nigeria for years over ethnic and territory clashes does anyone care about that? The Bubi are not the original people of Equatorial Guinea either, they migrated there. So what is his point? President Obiang and the Equatoguinean Government are excessively repressive, but it’s utterly naïve to think the Bubi and Fernandino parties would themselves have a better government knowing the most visible Western presence (colonization) in the country. With an overwhelming Euro/US presence and relations between Equatorial Guinea and the West, do you think the Bubi opposition rule would have been constructed more positively and constructively? I don’t think so! In Africa all rule are ethnically based, and most of these rules use repressive actions against the less dominate population, all right!

Moreover, like I said, the Fang live in so many African countries: in Gabon, Central African Republic, Nigeria, Congo/Brazzaville, etc. Do you think I know all the activities and ethnic tensions of the Fang in those countries? I barely have an idea of what the Fang group have been up to in Gabon just next to Cameroon! WHY? Because I am clearly not caught up in having disputes with Africans! An African woman from Equatorial Guinea could bring me as much pleasure as a Cameroonian; we basically can understand each other. We eat the same way and we live the same way! Whereas, you say this yourself African Prince, “African” undertook a massive de-africanization! They are modified, their psyche and needs are not the same! And today we see how MOST they are content to look down on Africans! They think they are successful being stateless people in a white man country! LOL! You guys claim you battle exceptionally against the colonialists, what African liberation movements didn’t? Malcom X and other “African” American militants didn’t follow the example of the struggle of liberation in Africa??? They surely did! But this is barely acknowledged by you, and you claim I owe your people to work in America? You are a laughing stock whereas the Asian and Arab people, and even Africans come here and work a million times better and prosper a millions times more than you. Clearly, you are a people with no vision, content to remain in a soil that doesn’t belong to you! Today, I work in America, but I am fully conscious of my responsibilities in Cameroon! I am going to return in my own county in a couple years when my employment contract ends. It’s inevitable, but I am surely not going to marry an “African” American woman to stay here. I am not caught up on that.

As for Panafrica, being a “good” husband to an African woman I doubt it! A de-Africanized Black man is imperfect. We Africans men have clear ideas of African cultures, so of course we satisfy African women the best. However if an African woman doesn’t want to express and live the full dimension of African tradition, if she ignores men of her own stock, ultimately she is going to build a family with an “African” American, just what Panafrica’s wife did. Their family is imperfect. Besides, Panafrica being a mulatto obviously their “African” family is really imperfect; that’s what I think.
Indeed, let’s not be blind about the weakness of “African” American heritage of the substance of African culture. Even Isaiah is proud to say the “African” Americans have roots in a colonial soil, that’s explain everything, seeing how they take pride in disassociating with Africans. And we don’t need them either, that’s why I cannot overlook Panafrica having the sublime guts and naivety to encourage a coupling agenda between “African” American men and African women. “African” American men behave in such a fashion with Africans that his call is pure nonsense.

As for my take on matriarchy, I am an African man. I grew up among strong, intelligent and proud African women. I ought adoration to all African women and other Black women if they serve and respect the African man! “African” American men on here criticize African women for bleaching their skin, but they overlook how “African” American women have lost their health in fast food, they are so fat they have lost their beauty. They are lazy and a large number are content to hurt the Black man, it’s shocking!

As for you Ms. pdiane who saw the necessity to marry an African man, you surely saw that African men are about the business of building strong families. We are hard workingmen, not thugs, and most of us have the traditional African quality you are looking for, that’s why you didn’t marry an “African” American man. You were incapable of such of thing that proves your own bias toward your own people but you are mad at “me”... oh well.

I’ve said enough for now, until then goodbye.

I'm not siding with Black Americans, my Cameroonian brother. I understand your resentment towards BA's who have a superiority complex when it comes to Africans but I haven't seen that in this thread. I've heard about the history with northern Cameroon and Nigeria but don't know too much about it. I think Africans should be concerned with all sub-saharan Africa and, as Kenneth Kaunda said, learn to see Africa whole. I never said Western Blacks consciously undertook to 'deAfricanization' or that their identity was Western period, how they came about was tragic but they are apart of the Western world and culturally Western. They have their own identities and cultures but their cultures aren't wholly distinct and seperate from Western culture at large, same language, religion,perspectives etc. cultures all through history have influenced others there are no official rules that say this can't happen across racial lines. The reason why immigrants may come to America and do better than BA's is because the immigrants that come are often the cream of the crop from their countries (and I'm not happy to say that the brain drain isn't good for Africa ) and this may or may not be the case if you compared the average Black American working man to the average African/Caribbean/Arab/Indian or whatever working man back in his country. The soil, the land itself, may rightfully belong to Native Americans, but America, the nation, does belong to Black Americans and they helped build it this just isn't always recognized by mainstream America and they have a history of being treated as second class citizens by their own nation. I believe in looking at individuals as individuals and I have no reason to believe or no right to conclude Pan Africa isn't a good husband to his wife or their family is 'imperfect'. I agree, most African women don't bleach and not all Black American women exhibit Black pride either (colored hair, attitudes, inferiority complexes etc. ). Pan Africa is also not a mullatoe, there are many light skinned Africans ( not just from the Horn ) with light skin and no White/Arab blood, many Igbos' of Nigeria even have green eyes, my mother (and many aunts/uncles and cousins) is the same complexion as him and she's not 'mullatoe' even though her mother was.

"I seriously doubt that brother African_Prince. There definately isn't any hatred for Africans coming from the African Americans in this community, this includes those who don't consider themselves PanAfricanist or Black Nationalist. This community reflects the African American community more closely than you might believe. Many African Americans site hostility from Africans as a reason why we can't connect. There have been more examples of that here, and we are seeing quite a hateful & disgusting display from Simba happening in this thread. I would suspect that if African Americans have a reputation for hating Africans abroad....that reputation is created by people like Simba who return to their countries and spew their venom!"

To be honest, I can't seriously believe that. The overwhelming majority of Africans have nothing against Black Americans or diasporan Blacks whatsoever, the majority have nothing against any other race or ethnicity on this planet so why Western Blacks, it may be a simple arguement but most of the resentment Africans have towards BA's is a defense mechanism. Myths of ugly,jet Black, smelly, aids infested, poor, tribalist Africans have nothing to do with negative treatment by Africans, even though I agree Africans retaliating only convinces some BA's that we initiate the little feud and continues the 'cycle' but this isn't the larger picture. There are many Africans who made efforts to befriend or reach out to Black Americans and are rejected. I've heard far far more American/West Indian Black people say or do far far harsher/hateful things to Africans and it had nothing to do with a defense mechanism.

Panafrica you said: ----------What is simply pathetic is your obsession with someone who you don't know. Since you can not stay true to your word about staying away, that decision is going to be made for you very soon!-------------

I have my so-called “evil” eye on you because you have no qualm stealing African women from African men! You have failed to strengthen the “African” American family and the African one at the same time. Your words are naive and empty. To me you are a shocking demagogue. Now, if am no longer able to post on this site because I am being honest, then BAN me in order to make sure how you really feel about Africans!

African Prince I will respond to you tomorrow (if I still can), as for now I have to go.

It's a matter of perspective and Pan Africa and other pan-Africanists feel African/BA, BA/WI, African/WI unions help strengthen pan-African relations. I don't think Pan Africa is a shocking demagogue but I hope and assume you still can.

African Prince, I am Simba. I am posting with this new account because I have been banned yesterday, clearly it’s what I expected, but it’s ok. I understand why African Americans on here resent me. Almost everything you've said I have experienced: the scorn, beatings, the snatching of my girlfriends from Africa by African American men, the blatant degust of my very dark skin by African American women. All these abuses give me no choice but to become a very African Nationalist man. I’ve been living a pretty long time in America, I end having ZERO African American friend, as we definitely cannot understand each other. I happen to be confused and nowadays I dislike the call for intermarriage between Africans and African Americans because it’s clearly not a popular thing. My entire attempt has been tragic in this case! Perhaps I should not judge all people, then why is it so difficult for me to get along with Africa Americans? It’s more facile with Africans, what is the explanation? African Prince you might be able to help me found that out. I will not attack the African Americans on these boards, I have no more desire to do so, I’ve already said my truth.

I’ve been living a pretty long time in America, I end having ZERO African American friend, as we definitely cannot understand each other. I happen to be confused and nowadays I dislike the call for intermarriage between Africans and African Americans because it’s clearly not a popular thing. My entire attempt has been tragic in this case! Perhaps I should not judge all people, then why is it so difficult for me to get along with Africa Americans? .

my only impression of your situation is that you have let jealously turn your heart bitter. america is not all that it is cracked up to be...we have brothers and sisters still in the grasp of mental slavery, not all AA's are alike and for you to judge us all by your handful of experiences really baffles me...we as black people in this world all have problems so your tirade the last couple of days has been majorly unappreciated. instead of coming here to make friends, you took out the frustrations that you harbour the real world, out on us...i hope one day, when some of the bitterness eases out of your heart, you will realize that african americans are not your enemy...but in the meantime i must say, in my eyes, you have worn out your welcome here...my advice to you is work on your personality and stop being such a frickin hater...these are the kindest words that i can bestow upon you on this day.

"one" love
khasm

I am starting to wonder if Simba is even African at all or perhaps some crazy white man posing as African to pit Africans and AfroAmericans against each other.

While it is true that there are some Africans who have issues with AfroAmericans, in my own person experience, I have never seen any African whose hostility reached the level of 'Simba.' Most of it is hurt feelings at being called names or at the worst case preferring white company... not an overtly conscious effort to divide and conquer relations between Africans and Blacks.

Either way, I'm glad he's banned.

my only impression of your situation is that you have let jealously turn your heart bitter. america is not all that it is cracked up to be...we have brothers and sisters still in the grasp of mental slavery, not all AA's are alike and for you to judge us all by your handful of experiences really baffles me...we as black people in this world all have problems so your tirade the last couple of days has been majorly unappreciated. instead of coming here to make friends, you took out the frustrations that you harbour the real world, out on us...i hope one day, when some of the bitterness eases out of your heart, you will realize that african americans are not your enemy...but in the meantime i must say, in my eyes, you have worn out your welcome here...my advice to you is work on your personality and stop being such a frickin hater...these are the kindest words that i can bestow upon you on this day.

"one" love
khasm

Please explain how jealousy has turned Simba's heart bitter. Instead of tugging his experiences under the rug, have you read what he had to say and placed yourself in his position before you ask why continental Africans have 'issues' with Black Americans.

"am starting to wonder if Simba is even African at all or perhaps some crazy white man posing as African to pit Africans and AfroAmericans against each other. "

That's pathetic. The Black Americans whom Simba has had bad experiences with play a role in the 'pitting of Africans and AfroAmericans against each other'. This all goes back to bias and never seeing eye to eye I was saying in the other thread.

"Either way, I'm glad he's banned."

There was no reason to ban him, none of his posts were unbelievably profane he was expressing his opinions, beliefs and views, analytically, you should seriously take into consideration the experiences that gave birth to his attitude. Is he justified or not, that's another debate, the point is you are discounting the experiences that led to Simba's attitudes towards BAs. I've heard way 'worse' on other websites ( please trust me on this ) and in life, I remember when me and Sekhemu went back and forth ( that wasn't big either in comparison to other things I've read/heard in real life). Simba is African people so stop trying to avoid all the Africans you don't want to deal with and if you were really commited to pan-Africanism you would work among these attitudes and prejudices your own people have towards Africans instead of just condeming the African side contribution to the "rift", look at the big picture and go after the chicken not the egg.

888, i mean 666 who are you really? I hate to bust your bubble, but most Afrikan men I have met are a peice of work. They oppress their woman and very few speak up about it, unlike my husband and that is why I love him. If you think I going go any further to explain to you why I love my husband and he loves me, you can forget it. I don't talk to the devil! I won't waste my time on your hateful heart.

This is a positive site, a site for Black people of Africa to express their ideas and opinions in a loving and civilized manner and more importantly to come up with solutions and an agenda that will bring all of us Afrakans together.

May God, the lesser gods, and the ancestors have mercy on your hateful heart!


Peace.

There was no reason to ban him, none of his posts were unbelievably profane he was expressing his opinions, beliefs and views, analytically, you should seriously take into consideration the experiences that gave birth to his attitude. Is he justified or not, that's another debate, the point is you are discounting the experiences that led to Simba's attitudes towards BAs. I've heard way 'worse' on other websites ( please trust me on this ) and in life, I remember when me and Sekhemu went back and forth ( that wasn't big either in comparison to other things I've read/heard in real life). Simba is African people so stop trying to avoid all the Africans you don't want to deal with and if you were really commited to pan-Africanism you would work among these attitudes and prejudices your own people have towards Africans instead of just condeming the African side contribution to the "rift", look at the big picture and go after the chicken not the egg.

African Prince:

Simba was banned for violation our rules of respecting other members. If you don't think he was being disrespectful, I'd like to see how you'd react if that tirade was directed towards you!

African Prince:

Simba was banned for violation our rules of respecting other members. If you don't think he was being disrespectful, I'd like to see how you'd react if that tirade was directed towards you!

'tirade' is directed to me and Africans on messageboards ALL the time. I just didn't think you could ban someone because they hurt your 'feelings', I never said that I agreed with his attacks on you and the few BA men married to African women.

Please explain how jealousy has turned Simba's heart bitter. Instead of tugging his experiences under the rug, have you read what he had to say and placed yourself in his position before you ask why continental Africans have 'issues' with Black Americans.

"am starting to wonder if Simba is even African at all or perhaps some crazy white man posing as African to pit Africans and AfroAmericans against each other. "

That's pathetic. The Black Americans whom Simba has had bad experiences with play a role in the 'pitting of Africans and AfroAmericans against each other'. This all goes back to bias and never seeing eye to eye I was saying in the other thread.

"Either way, I'm glad he's banned."

There was no reason to ban him, none of his posts were unbelievably profane he was expressing his opinions, beliefs and views, analytically, you should seriously take into consideration the experiences that gave birth to his attitude. Is he justified or not, that's another debate, the point is you are discounting the experiences that led to Simba's attitudes towards BAs. I've heard way 'worse' on other websites ( please trust me on this ) and in life, I remember when me and Sekhemu went back and forth ( that wasn't big either in comparison to other things I've read/heard in real life). Simba is African people so stop trying to avoid all the Africans you don't want to deal with and if you were really commited to pan-Africanism you would work among these attitudes and prejudices your own people have towards Africans instead of just condeming the African side contribution to the "rift", look at the big picture and go after the chicken not the egg.


If you look on a couple of posts I have authored on topics like this you would see that I acknowledged that African Americans do not always treat Africans fairly. I have dated and befriended African people, so I have seen first-hand the prejudice AfroAmericans have put forth against Africans. So I don't know where you get the idea that I am making it a one-sided issue!

I'm glad Simba is banned NOT because he's African (if he is African), but because he's coming on here with a disrespectful attitude. One can voice their issues with another group without all of the excess hostility. He has also personally attacked Pan by talking about his skin color and cutting down his dedication to his wife and her family.

As far as panAfricanism and black unity, I'm not interested in conversing with individuals who can not treat me or my peers in a respectful manner. This site is supposed to be about coming together in love, trying to find ways for improving the condition of the black community. And again, you can have a different opinion without creating a further divide.

'tirade' is directed to me and Africans on messageboards ALL the time. I just didn't think you could ban someone because they hurt your 'feelings', I never said that I agreed with his attacks on you and the few BA men married to African women.

What negative things have been said against Africans on this board? Negative meaning things posted in the manner that Simba has?

And while it is true that unfortunately other messageboards including so-called 'black' ones are incredibly racist, Destee is trying to be a community that is NOT like that. And in order to keep things civil, disruptive posters need to be taken care of. Otherwise, it will become like the others which are basically ceasepools of personal attacks and blatently racist statements.

If you look on a couple of posts I have authored on topics like this you would see that I acknowledged that African Americans do not always treat Africans fairly. I have dated and befriended African people, so I have seen first-hand the prejudice AfroAmericans have put forth against Africans. So I don't know where you get the idea that I am making it a one-sided issue!

I'm glad Simba is banned NOT because he's African (if he is African), but because he's coming on here with a disrespectful attitude. One can voice their issues with another group without all of the excess hostility. He has also personally attacked Pan by talking about his skin color and cutting down his dedication to his wife and her family.

As far as panAfricanism and black unity, I'm not interested in conversing with individuals who can not treat me or my peers in a respectful manner. This site is supposed to be about coming together in love, trying to find ways for improving the condition of the black community. And again, you can have a different opinion without creating a further divide.

I understand and not necessarily you in particular but it seems a common theme is highlighting the African contribution to the 'rift' between Africans and Black Americans and completely ignoring the contribution of some Black Americans, which is ironic because the BA's have always been the one with a 'reputation' for disliking Africans. I never denied that it was *insulting* to say the least ( not that theres anything wrong with being mixed ) to call Pan Africa a 'mullatoe' or criticize BA men who date/marry African women just that I couldn't believe someone could be banned for it because I've heard harsher and there was nothing really profane about it, but it's not my website.

"What negative things have been said against Africans on this board? Negative meaning things posted in the manner that Simba has? "

Not much, it's a positive site. Unfortanatly it's not the world.

I understand and not necessarily you in particular but it seems a common theme is highlighting the African contribution to the 'rift' between Africans and Black Americans and completely ignoring the contribution of some Black Americans, which is ironic because the BA's have always been the one with a 'reputation' for disliking Africans. I never denied that it was *insulting* to say the least ( not that theres anything wrong with being mixed ) to call Pan Africa a 'mullatoe' or criticize BA men who date/marry African women just that I couldn't believe someone could be banned for it because I've heard harsher and there was nothing really profane about it, but it's not my website.

"What negative things have been said against Africans on this board? Negative meaning things posted in the manner that Simba has? "

Not much, it's a positive site. Unfortanatly it's not the world.

Well, I do understand why you would feel that way based on some of the responses in this thread.

I think the best solution is for a thread to be created addressing the African point of view on the AfroAmerican/African rift.

Please explain how jealousy has turned Simba's heart bitter. Instead of tugging his experiences under the rug, have you read what he had to say and placed yourself in his position before you ask why continental Africans have 'issues' with Black Americans.



here you go...

I understand why African Americans on here resent me. Almost everything you've said I have experienced: the scorn, beatings, the snatching of my girlfriends from Africa by African American men, the blatant degust of my very dark skin by African American women. All these abuses give me no choice but to become a very African Nationalist man. I’ve been living a pretty long time in America, I end having ZERO African American friend, as we definitely cannot understand each other. I happen to be confused and nowadays I dislike the call for intermarriage between Africans and African Americans because it’s clearly not a popular thing.

i think that says it all right there...me personally, i have friends from nigeria whose views are so far from this...they understand that anglo-saxxons are to blame for the images we see of each other(african and african american)...i have no beef with people of color...ANY NATIONALITY...because we are trapped in the same game...i might ber wrong african prince, but to me simba seemed to have put all african americans in the same group...to be black and spit the venomous words he did MAKES me view him as an enemy...he doesn't even know panafrica but was serving as his judge and jury...it seems from simba's statements that willie lynch's hands streched further then the americas...

nothing will change me having love for my brother...but as i said before...every brother aint your brother...

one love
khasm

here you go...



i think that says it all right there...me personally, i have friends from nigeria whose views are so far from this...they understand that anglo-saxxons are to blame for the images we see of each other(african and african american)...i have no beef with people of color...ANY NATIONALITY...because we are trapped in the same game...i might ber wrong african prince, but to me simba seemed to have put all african americans in the same group...to be black and spit the venomous words he did MAKES me view him as an enemy...he doesn't even know panafrica but was serving as his judge and jury...it seems from simba's statements that willie lynch's hands streched further then the americas...

nothing will change me having love for my brother...but as i said before...every brother aint your brother...

one love
khasm

I don't remember agreeing with Simba on Pan Africa being a 'mullattoe' or a shocking demagogue. Again, where in your post or SImba's quote do you prove jealousy has turned Simba's heart bitter? Jealous means 'I wish I were you' or 'I wish I had what you had and that's why I'm bitter to you'. He's saying he's angry because of bad experiences ( except for the 'snatching of his girlfriends by BA men' ) with BA's not because he's jealous of them.

'tirade' is directed to me and Africans on messageboards ALL the time. I just didn't think you could ban someone because they hurt your 'feelings', I never said that I agreed with his attacks on you and the few BA men married to African women.

Other websites are not this website! In addition many so called black websites aren't owned by black people, and half the people on them aren't black. You literally don't know who you are talking to! Why would someone base their entire opinion on a people from a handful of debates a couple of websites? That isn't logical! If this is why Africans feel African American don't like them...if this is the source of the anger...that is truly sad!

I don't remember agreeing with Simba on Pan Africa being a 'mullattoe' or a shocking demagogue. Again, where in your post or SImba's quote do you prove jealousy has turned Simba's heart bitter? Jealous means 'I wish I were you' or 'I wish I had what you had and that's why I'm bitter to you'. He's saying he's angry because of bad experiences ( except for the 'snatching of his girlfriends by BA men' ) with BA's not because he's jealous of them.

I can't give you 100% verifiable proof to simba's heart and total thought process behind his hateful statements...my reply was merely my opinion...but i'll tell you one thing...until this lightskin darkskin ish is dead...we as a people we always fight amoung ourselves.... :argue:

one love
khasm

Other websites are not this website! In addition many so called black websites aren't owned by black people, and half the people on them aren't black. You literally don't know who you are talking to! Why would someone base their entire opinion on a people from a handful of debates a couple of websites? That isn't logical! If this is why Africans feel African American don't like them...if this is the source of the anger...that is truly sad!

The internet is just another form of communication, never mind me, what about the Africans in the U.S who deal with negative relations with BA's all the time? That's a poor excuse, you'll never know for sure who someone is behind a screen so only believe they are who they say they are when they're saying something good, right? If 50 posters claim they are women and say they love thugs, there are some women out there who love badboys and how would you brace it if 'hypothetically' these posters really were women and not bad boys in disguise. That's funny to me.

"I can't give you 100% verifiable proof to simba's heart and total thought process behind his hateful statements...my reply was merely my opinion...but i'll tell you one thing...until this lightskin darkskin ish is dead...we as a people we always fight amoung ourselves.... "

I understand, but where did the light skin/dark skin thing in partciular come from, that was only one thing Simba mentioned in his post.

The internet is just another form of communication, never mind me, what about the Africans in the U.S who deal with negative relations with BA's all the time? That's a poor excuse, you'll never know for sure who someone is behind a screen so only believe they are who they say they are when they're saying something good, right? If 50 posters claim they are women and say they love thugs, there are some women out there who love badboys and how would you brace it if 'hypothetically' these posters really were women and not bad boys in disguise. That's funny to me.

Web discussions can not take the place of personal encounters. My opinions of Africans are not based on the handful of discussions I've had on the internet. Indeed if they were, then my opinions of Africans would not be that positive. They don't always represent themselves well, this is especially true on this website. No my opinions of Africans are mostly based on the ones I know personally. This includes my wife & my inlaws. The internet is a form of communication, but because of its very nature (the inability to see who you are talking to & where people get their information from) a lot of comments have to be taken with a grain of salt. Negative relations with Africans & African Americans go both ways. That much is obvious. If according to you African Americans have a reputation for hating other black people (an undeserved reputation I might add), then other blacks will interact with African Americans with this reputation in mind. How can two people have an equal/clean relationship with one another when both are operating with pre-conceived notions? This is the danger when people believe & internalize stereotypes. What is sad about this is that white folks are the ones who created the stereotypes (Africans are savages...African Americans are criminals...both hate each other) that we are acting on. We need to realize this is nonsense, and interact with each other as individuals!

Web discussions can not take the place of personal encounters. My opinions of Africans are not based on the handful of discussions I've had on the internet. Indeed if they were, then my opinions of Africans would not be that positive. They don't always represent themselves well, this is especially true on this website. No my opinions of Africans are mostly based on the ones I know personally. This includes my wife & my inlaws. The internet is a form of communication, but because of its very nature (the inability to see who you are talking to & where people get their information from) a lot of comments have to be taken with a grain of salt. Negative relations with Africans & African Americans go both ways. That much is obvious. If according to you African Americans have a reputation for hating other black people (an undeserved reputation I might add), then other blacks will interact with African Americans with this reputation in mind. How can two people have an equal/clean relationship with one another when both are operating with pre-conceived notions? This is the danger when people believe & internalize stereotypes. What is sad about this is that white folks are the ones who created the stereotypes (Africans are savages...African Americans are criminals...both hate each other) that we are acting on. We need to realize this is nonsense, and interact with each other as individuals!

I agree with you that everything you read on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt ( you do read the most bizarre things you just couldn't imagine anyone saying in real life occasionally ) but I still stand by it being another form of communication. Just an example, If you have your typical 'Black or African American' thread and 50 Black American posters prefer not tbe called 'African American' I would be a fool to be seriously surprised when in real life a Black American tells me he/she doesn't hold with the term 'African American'.

Preconceived notions do play a big role in how people interact with one another but we only go back of forth on whether or not that reputation ( of BA's mistreating/disliking Africans ) is well earned or not.

I’ve been living a pretty long time in America, I end having ZERO African American friend..............
will some body please get this man some nookie! :insane:

I understand, but where did the light skin/dark skin thing in partciular come from, that was only one thing Simba mentioned in his post.


right here african_prince...dialouge like this reminds me of the spike lee movie school days...

Yeah, this conversation is "beneath" you because I'm not going along with your romantic BS about the relationships between Africans and "African" Americans.... I saw Panafrica picture he seems to be a mulatto! Now I understand his LUST for African women. LOL !!!


black is black...

one love
khasm

I can understand Simba concerns. It is how some continentals feels, and there is no reason to avoid the issue. But it is true Simba behavior border tribalism. We are not "his" women even though the romance between us and Black Americans would not solve the problem we having with White Supremacy.

I have heard so many Africans saying the things Simba said. However Simba said this in such a way, he appears to be really hurt. Also his insistence on Brother Panafrica, I wonder if he wishes he was you.

This is once again an interesting discussion…but there seems to be a consistent theme in a lot of these dialogues dealing with African Americans and continental Africans or any other Africans in the Diaspora and that is, “what qualifies you to function naturally in one socio-cultural context or another”, this is why I am sure that race like many other social groupings is “presently” just a social construct.

We (Black folks) are probably the most splintered people on the planet earth, with the most in common…Man, what an oxymoronic enigma

But as far as this discussion is concerned specifically, I am old enough to remember when the light/dark skinned divide among African Americans was very powerful, and was just as much as a quagmire, as dating across the Diaspora; and I have had some bold and probing conversations with people in our community to know, that it secretly still has a factor in many situations.

I remember when Africans males from the continental were chasing everything in America that was female, almost literally excluding continental African women and their views of African American men were very negative and condescending. Matter of fact today, when they use the infamous “N” word in a conversation, they are specifically talking about AA males or females! And when they tried to woo African American women they would emphasize negative stereotypes of AA men and use a romanticized view of African men, as the more superior choice of the two.

I remember when sisters were going for this BS, in their superficial misguided yearnings to be with a more African “centered” man (the real deal) and this backwards thinking had many of them chasing or giving in to continental African men, until they found out what was really up. (many times green cards and citizenship)

I remember when African American men rarely dated women from the continent and the continental African men would tell their sisters, once again, we (AA men) were “no good” and for them to stay away from us.

Though we are trying to move forward, it is obvious the past is a great weight, in a sinking ship. Honesty is hard to find these days and sometimes we want to act like something’s never happened. Those who are younger and have come along lately, may be somewhat dismayed at how vehement in nature this divide is, but you have had to experience some of it and not read about it, to know why it is still so strong.

Uhmm...Brother Sun Ship you’ve laid it down quite well. Black people (ALL Black people) relationships is a mess. Period.

We (Black folks) are probably the most splintered people on the planet earth, with the most in common…Man, what an oxymoronic enigma

This is a mouthful of truth!

I’ve been living a pretty long time in America, I end having ZERO African American friend, as we definitely cannot understand each other............
Simba:

you would have an excellent chance to make friends on this site if you would stop cursing us for a minute.
i know what it's like to be in a strange country and not know anybody.

why don't you chill out and show some love?

[QUOTE=Isaiah]

I have yet to read the rest of the thread and respond to more posts but first I'd like to respond to this one post. I think you misunderstood what I was saying, all I said was a) plenty of Caribbean women bleach ( and most African/Caribbean or even other parts of the world don't ), this is a fact and b) I was just saying matter of factly that many Caribbean Black people don't feel a bond towards Africans or Black Americans I wasn't even discouraging you from identifying with them ( you probably think Im 'jealous', right? ) I was just pointing this out that whatever Simba has said about Black Americans I've heard PLENTY Caribbean people say harsher things about Black Americans ,and Africans for that matter ,so don't put that on Africans alone. Most of the Black people where I live are of Caribbean background and I have a couple cousins studying in the Caribbean ( one said he had bad experiences with AfroCubans who looked down on him, another of my cousins was born/raised in JA, ). And I know you didn't make the comment to "sting", it wasnt even one of the more important things to respond to, but just because they don't come to this board doesn't mean their aren't plenty of Caribbean people who look down on Black Americans just in itself and also complain of negative treatment from them. You've been around longer than I have and I don't claim to be more of an expert of Caribbean people than you but I know what I know. I've heard Caribbean people who side with Black Americans over Africans, I've heard Caribbean people who side with Africans over Black Americans and I've heard Caribbean people who identify with neither or both ( personally I always think of Caribbean Black people as being in the middle, like Africans they predominate in their country but like Black Americans and Black Latinos, they share the same legacy of slavery). I don't care about any of this, personally, I was just telling you 'matter of fact' ly.

I also wasn't saying Black Americans are such a 'cultureless' and 'lost' people when I said they were a part of the Western world, I knew that would be interpreted as "Africans look down on us as having no identity blah blah blah" but I was only saying it from an anthropological perspective. Diasporan Blacks are a part of the Western world and are culturally Western and nobody really wants to see this, but like I said how this came about was tragic and unfortanate but is the case nonetheless. BA's have said this themselves and it was actually on another board that I heard a BA poster comment that the truth is most people associate culture with behaviour and mannerism but that's not the totality of culture, Black Americans are as much Americans as White Americans ( wouldn't you agree that after 400 years that country belongs to them rightly as well ) and the U.S is a part of the Western world, they speak a European language, traditionally practice a European religion, I consider myself an African first/foremost before nationality or 'tribe' but the truth is as a group they have no one specific African ethnic group to return to, they are an amalgamtion of several mostly West African ethnic groups and of course some White/Native American ancestry. I don't know if this will make sense, but in most African cultures the child takes on the fathers identity and around the world most children take their fathers last name, so if you wanted to find out your "true tribe" and trace your foremost paternal ancestor to a Yoruba, and JamesFromPhilly traced his foremost paternal ancestor to a Wolof and Queen Latifah traced her foremost paternal ancestor to an Irishman or Cherokee Native American ,you can't divide the three of you because you belong to the same clearly defined ethnic group, so which one 'tribe' or language will you all claim as a group. People also underestimate how important a language is to a culture, Antwone Fisher put it in Finding Fish that is was like a people's 'toolbox', language carries a peoples culture and gives them heir identity, how different would our lives be if Punjabi was the only language we could speak/understand? It's not an insult, diasporan Black people, will always be of African descent, but they are culturally Western and apart of the Western world, they have their own cultures yes but it's not wholly seperate and distinct from Western culture at large. I'll try and respond to any other posts later.

"As we have never done anything to Africans on the continent, I wonder where this stuff is coming from"

I know I don't live in the U.S but it always kills me how some Black Americans really wonder why some Africans resent Black Americans,right or wrong, I mean really. 41 Senegalese cab drivers have been murdered in Harlem New York ( I know this can be an economically depressed area where taxi drivers are often targeted ), I've heard so many stories about Africans who would get into physical fights with BA's at high schools on a daily basis, be teased ruthlessly because of their names or accents,asked if they had AIDS, told that all Africans were jet black and ugly, smelled like ****, I've experienced this with some Caribbean Black people ( it can be especially bad in the UK, I've heard of Caribbean people making monkey noises when Africans are speaking their languages nearby, violence between the two, a Somali girl being stabbed almost to death because a group of Jamaicans suspected she was Somali, Jamaican boys coming out with machetes telling some Africans to "go back where you came from", setting pitbulls on Africans, siding with political parties that would put an end to African refugees tbeing allowed in the the UK,I've heard *some* West Indians in N.America, openly admit hating Africans etc. ) I can't even keep track or put it all here but I am always literally shocked, in all dead seriousness, when I hear Black Americans legitimatly wander why some Africans resent them. Everyone knows that, and again, Pan Africa may be right in saying that the pro-pan-African BA's don't get any attention, but realistically everyone around the **** world knows that Black Americans have a reputation for disliking and being downright hatefull towards African, do a survey anywhere around the world about how people think Black Americans look at Africans and I bet they'll echo what I'm saying as well as many Black Americans who will openyl admit they dislike or downright hate Africans don't tell me you've never had an 'anti African'( to say the least ) comment from Black Americans in your entire life before you wonder why Africans are the ones who 'hate' Black Americans. I'll try and respond to any other posts later.

African Prince, where did you get those stats on the 41 Senegalese cab drivers murdered in Harlem????!!! Who is the source of that "information?"(smile!)

Brother, if that were true, believe me, there are TOO MANY conscious African Americans to let that go down, without it being common knowledge to each and every African American in New York City, if not the entire country. We don't stay quiet about the murders of Africans because they are Africans, brother... I resent the implication... Amadou Diallo was no AFrican American! Ousmane Tsongo was no AFrican American... Who you 'spose made all the noise regarding the murders of these brothers. Check your sources, brother, they may be found wanting with some deeper research on your part...

Senegalese cab drivers are more numerous in Harlem for a reason. They live and work there. Harlem is not ALL-BLACK, as many folks assume - as you are assuming(smile!) If 41 cab drivers of Senegalese background were murdered, they were ALL murdered by AFRICAN AMERICANS... Oh, really???

Peace!
Isaiah

[QUOTE=Isaiah]

I have yet to read the rest of the thread and respond to more posts but first I'd like to respond to this one post. I think you misunderstood what I was saying, all I said was a) plenty of Caribbean women bleach ( and most African/Caribbean or even other parts of the world don't ), this is a fact and b) I was just saying matter of factly that many Caribbean Black people don't feel a bond towards Africans or Black Americans I wasn't even discouraging you from identifying with them ( you probably think Im 'jealous', right? ) I was just pointing this out that whatever Simba has said about Black Americans I've heard PLENTY Caribbean people say harsher things about Black Americans ,and Africans for that matter ,so don't put that on Africans alone. Most of the Black people where I live are of Caribbean background and I have a couple cousins studying in the Caribbean ( one said he had bad experiences with AfroCubans who looked down on him, another of my cousins was born/raised in JA, ). And I know you didn't make the comment to "sting", it wasnt even one of the more important things to respond to, but just because they don't come to this board doesn't mean their aren't plenty of Caribbean people who look down on Black Americans just in itself and also complain of negative treatment from them. You've been around longer than I have and I don't claim to be more of an expert of Caribbean people than you but I know what I know. I've heard Caribbean people who side with Black Americans over Africans, I've heard Caribbean people who side with Africans over Black Americans and I've heard Caribbean people who identify with neither or both ( personally I always think of Caribbean Black people as being in the middle, like Africans they predominate in their country but like Black Americans and Black Latinos, they share the same legacy of slavery). I don't care about any of this, personally, I was just telling you 'matter of fact' ly.

I also wasn't saying Black Americans are such a 'cultureless' and 'lost' people when I said they were a part of the Western world, I knew that would be interpreted as "Africans look down on us as having no identity blah blah blah" but I was only saying it from an anthropological perspective. Diasporan Blacks are a part of the Western world and are culturally Western and nobody really wants to see this, but like I said how this came about was tragic and unfortanate but is the case nonetheless. BA's have said this themselves and it was actually on another board that I heard a BA poster comment that the truth is most people associate culture with behaviour and mannerism but that's not the totality of culture, Black Americans are as much Americans as White Americans ( wouldn't you agree that after 400 years that country belongs to them rightly as well ) and the U.S is a part of the Western world, they speak a European language, traditionally practice a European religion, I consider myself an African first/foremost before nationality or 'tribe' but the truth is as a group they have no one specific African ethnic group to return to, they are an amalgamtion of several mostly West African ethnic groups and of course some White/Native American ancestry. I don't know if this will make sense, but in most African cultures the child takes on the fathers identity and around the world most children take their fathers last name, so if you wanted to find out your "true tribe" and trace your foremost paternal ancestor to a Yoruba, and JamesFromPhilly traced his foremost paternal ancestor to a Wolof and Queen Latifah traced her foremost paternal ancestor to an Irishman or Cherokee Native American ,you can't divide the three of you because you belong to the same clearly defined ethnic group, so which one 'tribe' or language will you all claim as a group. People also underestimate how important a language is to a culture, Antwone Fisher put it in Finding Fish that is was like a people's 'toolbox', language carries a peoples culture and gives them heir identity, how different would our lives be if Punjabi was the only language we could speak/understand? It's not an insult, diasporan Black people, will always be of African descent, but they are culturally Western and apart of the Western world, they have their own cultures yes but it's not wholly seperate and distinct from Western culture at large. I'll try and respond to any other posts later.

"As we have never done anything to Africans on the continent, I wonder where this stuff is coming from"

I know I don't live in the U.S but it always kills me how some Black Americans really wonder why some Africans resent Black Americans,right or wrong, I mean really. 41 Senegalese cab drivers have been murdered in Harlem New York ( I know this can be an economically depressed area where taxi drivers are often targeted ), I've heard so many stories about Africans who would get into physical fights with BA's at high schools on a daily basis, be teased ruthlessly because of their names or accents,asked if they had AIDS, told that all Africans were jet black and ugly, smelled like ****, I've experienced this with some Caribbean Black people ( it can be especially bad in the UK, I've heard of Caribbean people making monkey noises when Africans are speaking their languages nearby, violence between the two, a Somali girl being stabbed almost to death because a group of Jamaicans suspected she was Somali, Jamaican boys coming out with machetes telling some Africans to "go back where you came from", setting pitbulls on Africans, siding with political parties that would put an end to African refugees tbeing allowed in the the UK,I've heard *some* West Indians in N.America, openly admit hating Africans etc. ) I can't even keep track or put it all here but I am always literally shocked, in all dead seriousness, when I hear Black Americans legitimatly wander why some Africans resent them. Everyone knows that, and again, Pan Africa may be right in saying that the pro-pan-African BA's don't get any attention, but realistically everyone around the **** world knows that Black Americans have a reputation for disliking and being downright hatefull towards African, do a survey anywhere around the world about how people think Black Americans look at Africans and I bet they'll echo what I'm saying as well as many Black Americans who will openyl admit they dislike or downright hate Africans don't tell me you've never had an 'anti African'( to say the least ) comment from Black Americans in your entire life before you wonder why Africans are the ones who 'hate' Black Americans. I'll try and respond to any other posts later.

African Prince, where did you get those stats on the 41 Senegalese cab drivers murdered in Harlem????!!! Who is the source of that "information?"(smile!)

Brother, if that were true, believe me, there are TOO MANY conscious African Americans to let that go down, without it being common knowledge to each and every African American in New York City, if not the entire country. We don't stay quiet about the murders of Africans because they are Africans, brother... I resent the implication... Amadou Diallo was no AFrican American! Ousmane Tsongo was no AFrican American... Who you 'spose made all the noise regarding the murders of these brothers. Check your sources, brother, they may be found wanting with some deeper research on your part...

Senegalese cab drivers are more numerous in Harlem for a reason. They live and work there. Harlem is not ALL-BLACK, as many folks assume - as you are assuming(smile!) If 41 cab drivers of Senegalese background were murdered, they were ALL murdered by AFRICAN AMERICANS... Oh, really??? Jennifer Wilburn said she was kidnapped by Hispanics... Musta been true, cause she said so, African Prince...



Peace!
Isaiah

[QUOTE=African_Prince]African Prince, where did you get those stats on the 41 Senegalese cab drivers murdered in Harlem????!!! Who is the source of that "information?"(smile!)

Brother, if that were true, believe me, there are TOO MANY conscious African Americans to let that go down, without it being common knowledge to each and every African American in New York City, if not the entire country. We don't stay quiet about the murders of Africans because they are Africans, brother... I resent the implication... Amadou Diallo was no AFrican American! Ousmane Tsongo was no AFrican American... Who you 'spose made all the noise regarding the murders of these brothers. Check your sources, brother, they may be found wanting with some deeper research on your part...

Senegalese cab drivers are more numerous in Harlem for a reason. They live and work there. Harlem is not ALL-BLACK, as many folks assume - as you are assuming(smile!) If 41 cab drivers of Senegalese background were murdered, they were ALL murdered by AFRICAN AMERICANS... Oh, really???

That is absolutely true brother Isaiah, and I already made brother African_Prince aware of what you pointed out.

African Prince:
i traveled to NYC to join in the demonstrations that were taking place when the African brother was killed and when the Haiten brother was abused.
i paid my own fare out of my pocket.

i think you should focus more on what you actually know and have experienced.
what is happening up in Canada?

[QUOTE=African_Prince]

African Prince, where did you get those stats on the 41 Senegalese cab drivers murdered in Harlem????!!! Who is the source of that "information?"(smile!)

Brother, if that were true, believe me, there are TOO MANY conscious African Americans to let that go down, without it being common knowledge to each and every African American in New York City, if not the entire country. We don't stay quiet about the murders of Africans because they are Africans, brother... I resent the implication... Amadou Diallo was no AFrican American! Ousmane Tsongo was no AFrican American... Who you 'spose made all the noise regarding the murders of these brothers. Check your sources, brother, they may be found wanting with some deeper research on your part...

Senegalese cab drivers are more numerous in Harlem for a reason. They live and work there. Harlem is not ALL-BLACK, as many folks assume - as you are assuming(smile!) If 41 cab drivers of Senegalese background were murdered, they were ALL murdered by AFRICAN AMERICANS... Oh, really??? Jennifer Wilburn said she was kidnapped by Hispanics... Musta been true, cause she said so, African Prince...



Peace!
Isaiah

I know Harlem is not all Black but 'SOME' of them ( the killers ) I'm sure were Black American. I'm not stereotyping BA's as thugs and murderers, that's corny, but I don't see how you could seriously put it past certain people like 'oh my GOD, that could NEVER happen...' when they'll even kill other young BA men but are supposed to leave Africans alone, wasn't it someone on this website who admitted cab drivers are targetted? Why is everyone on this site adament that "oh, it's probably just an intruder White supremacist spreading lies" or a blatant lie, can you prove otherwise? What do you choose to beleive? Anyways, that was just an example of how Africans aren't soley responsible for any African/BA 'rift'.


Little Senegal: Africa in Harlem
by Marième O. Daff














Malcolm X Boulevard, America's Dakar!

Most French people discovered the existence of this little enclave in the heart of Harlem where a large African community lives thanks to Rachid Bouchareb's latest film Little Senegal. Alloune, a retired Senegalese man played by the Burkinabè actor Sotigui Kouyaté, comes to New York to find his family's descendants brought here as slaves. Turning up on his illegal taxi driver nephew's doorstep in this "revisited" Harlem, Alloune discovers a world where his African brothers and American cousins live side-by-side without actually mixing. This is a daily reality in this part of New York where the African population has grown considerably.
The neighbourhood is known as "Little Senegal" as it is mainly Senegalese immigrants who have settled there. Although a recent and as yet poorly documented immigration, it's nonetheless a big talking point. According to the Senegalese journalist Dame Babou, "no one really knows their number. Some say 10 000, 15 000 or 25 000 in New York alone. I reckon that there are a lot more than that! It's impossible to know with all the illegal immigrants. What is certain is that it's a predominant group that represents more than half the African immigrants here."
For most New Yorkers, this new wave of immigration is incarnated by the street-sellers seen everywhere in Manhattan's shopping areas. They sell false Rolex watches, tee shirts, or umbrellas. But what do people really know about them, beyond this reductive stereotype? Not a lot, unless they adventure into their "territory" in west Harlem.
Little Senegal is indeed quite another world. Strolling along 116th West Street in the humid New York summer heat is like being in the centre of Dakar, or even the popular Médina district. Men and women brighten up the sidewalks with their brightly coloured boubous. Wolof can be heard everywhere (or occasionally a bit of French), melodiously drowned out by the sounds of Youssou N'Dour emanating from nearly every shop. Loads of hairdresser's with garish signs are dotted along the street. At a crossing, touts hassle you gently, like in Paris' Château d'Eau or Stasbourg St Denis, "Come in, we do beautiful plaits - at half the price".
But when spicy smells start tickling your taste buds, you really feel at home. The neighbourhood has no less than half-a-dozen restaurants offering a wide range of West African specialities. One of the most popular is "Africa", where exiles with nostalgic palates meet up for a good Thiebou Dieune, Senegal's national dish. The restaurant opened in 1994 and quickly became a favourite in the community. "The dishes are quite simply excellent", explains Mustapha Sylla, one of "Africa's" regulars. But there is more to it than that. "It's like being in Dakar, or with the family here. More than just a restaurant, it's a meeting place for the community too. Various small community groups put their notices up here, for concerts, parties, and the like. There are sometimes respects for the dead too. It helps us to stay informed about what's going on and to help too if needs be".
Mutual aid and hospitality - "teranga" in Wolof - remains a fundamental value for the Senegalese in America. They have brought their "daïra" tradition with them, a system of weekly or monthly contributions whose funds are used in the event of an emergency. When someone dies, for example, these groups pay the cost of repatriating the body and also financially provide for the deceased's family.
This scenario is all the more tragic when the body brought home is riddled with bullets… Little Senegal is Harlem, after all, and does not escape the ambient violence. Taxi drivers are particularly vulnerable to this violence. The phenomenon directly affects the community, therefore, many of whom work in this profession. Their poor English and the fact that they don't know the neighbourhoods they drive around very well makes them easy targets.
To date, 41 Senegalese taxi drivers have been killed in the streets of New York.
It's hardly surprising that Harlem's other black populations are greatly mistrusted in this climate. Very few Little Senegal residents frequent them and vice-versa. There is a two-way feeling of racism and the divide is difficult to breach. Some do make the effort, however, albeit timidly, notably a few "back to the roots" black Americans seeking to reappropriate their African roots. They can sometimes be seen eating at "Africa" - they almost overdo their enthusiasm! The same people can be seen buying cloth, craftwork, or music at Harlem's African market - on a quick, imaginary journey. After all, Little Senegal already offers a real taste of Africa.

http://www.africultures.com/anglais/articles_anglais/44senegal.htm

I know Harlem is not all Black but 'SOME' of them ( the killers ) I'm sure were Black American. I'm not stereotyping BA's as thugs and murderers, that's corny, but I don't see how you could seriously put it past certain people like 'oh my GOD, that could NEVER happen...' when they'll even kill other young BA men but are supposed to leave Africans alone, wasn't it someone on this website who admitted cab drivers are targetted? Why is everyone on this site adament that "oh, it's probably just an intruder White supremacist spreading lies" or a blatant lie, can you prove otherwise? What do you choose to beleive? Anyways, that was just an example of how Africans aren't soley responsible for any African/BA 'rift'.

No one is denying that some African cab drivers have been killed in Harlem...some might have even been killed by African Americans. However, you were giving the case of 41 Taxi Drivers killed in Harlem (you didn't provide a time frame) as a example of African American aggression towards Africans. That quite simply is not the case! I can guarantee that if any of these Taxi Drivers were killed by African Americans they were killed because they drove a cab, not because they were Africans. We have to be careful of the conclusions we draw. Also we need to consider our sources, as Isaiah stated. Both Isaiah & myself are in the NYC area, and the info you have provided is completely new. In fact I frequent 116th street (I visit restaraunts & groceries stores there), and I don't feel any tension. I don't think this article accurately portrays life in Harlem.

often times i have stated to my friends that although this is the infomation age...it is also the propaganda age as well...just because you read information on the internet does not mean that information is validated...imho

one love
khasm

No one is denying that some African cab drivers have been killed in Harlem...some might have even been killed by African Americans. However, you were giving the case of 41 Taxi Drivers killed in Harlem (you didn't provide a time frame) as a example of African American aggression towards Africans. That quite simply is not the case! I can guarantee that if any of these Taxi Drivers were killed by African Americans they were killed because they drove a cab, not because they were Africans. We have to be careful of the conclusions we draw. Also we need to consider our sources, as Isaiah stated. Both Isaiah & myself are in the NYC area, and the info you have provided is completely new. In fact I frequent 116th street (I visit restaraunts & groceries stores there), and I don't feel any tension. I don't think this article accurately portrays life in Harlem.

I would believe a person over an article when it comes to how life is in general in a specific city or neighborhood,you live there I don't, but it still doesnt change the fact that it happened, common or not, and you don't know whether or not, as I think the article says, their accents and non-fluency in English marked them as targets. I'm not really impressed by 'I don't discriminate, I'll kill anyone'.

"just because you read information on the internet does not mean that information is validated."

It doesn't mean that information is invalid either. wIf you didn't know one ay or the either for sure and had no specific reason to believe it was false, it would be best to assume it's true.

ALL the cab drivers in Philly are African or Indian.

so, if a driver is killed it will be one of them.
to say they are targeted because of their nationality is quite wrong in this case.
people rob cabs.

I would believe a person over an article when it comes to how life is in general in a specific city or neighborhood,you live there I don't, but it still doesnt change the fact that it happened, common or not, and you don't know whether or not, as I think the article says, their accents and non-fluency in English marked them as targets. I'm not really impressed by 'I don't discriminate, I'll kill anyone'.

"just because you read information on the internet does not mean that information is validated."

It doesn't mean that information is invalid either. wIf you didn't know one ay or the either for sure and had no specific reason to believe it was false, it would be best to assume it's true.

dude...your bringing information to the table that has incomplete parameters...no time constraints...for all you know this could have happened over 50 years...and you are using it to prove your point...this is at the least irresponsible and at the worst stupid...imho

and the worst thing about all of your so called infomation...you have no first hand info...all of it is second and third hand...do you really expect us to take you seriously?

one love
khasm

dude...your bringing information to the table that has incomplete parameters...no time constraints...for all you know this could have happened over 50 years...and you are using it to prove your point...this is at the least irresponsible and at the worst stupid...imho
and the worst thing about all of your so called infomation...you have no first hand info...all of it is second and third hand...do you really expect us to take you seriously?

This is more harsh than I would have phrased it...but I echo your sentiments!

dude...your bringing information to the table that has incomplete parameters...no time constraints...for all you know this could have happened over 50 years...and you are using it to prove your point...this is at the least irresponsible and at the worst stupid...imho

and the worst thing about all of your so called infomation...you have no first hand info...all of it is second and third hand...do you really expect us to take you seriously?

one love
khasm

It happened in the 90s, there was no Little Senegal in the 1950s. You really take this 'lies spread by White invaders ' stuff a little to far, c'mon. You have no reason to believe man has never walked on the moon because you have no 'first hand information' or weren't there. No one else who has argued that that doesn't prove BA's as a group are aggressivly hateful towards Africans have blatantly denied it took place, they're arguing they weren;t targeted because they were African.

african_prince
man may not have walked on the moon now that you speak upon it...at least not when they say it happened...but i digress...if i understand your argument correctly you are assuming that senegalese taxi drivers were killed by AA's since it was in harlem...key word assume...also you assume that since they were killed it logically equates to racial tension between AA's and Africans....key word assume...if i were to make the same assumptions about AA's in my own city, then i could make some horrible infrences about the AA's that live in the inglewood section of chicago because 41 blacks can die there at the hands of other blacks in a half of a month...your facts must be tempered with some first hand info to gain the proper perspective...imho


one love
khasm

man may not have walked on the moon now that you speak upon it...at least not when they say it happened...but i digress...if i understand your argument correctly you are assuming that senegal taxi drivers were killed by AA's since it was in harlem...key word assume...also you assume that since they were killed it logically equates to racial tension between AA's and Africans....key word assume...if i were to make the same assumptions about AA's in my own city, then i could make some horrible infrences about the AA's that live in the inglewood section of chicago because 41 blacks can die there at the hands of other blacks in a half of a month...your facts must be tempered with some first hand info to gain the proper perspective...imho


one love
khasm

I'm sure of 41 of those Senegalese cab drivers "some" of the killers were Black American since there's no reason to pretend Harlem ,for quite some time, hasn't been a predominatly Black section of New York City. I used that just as another example as to how it's not soley Africans who contribute to the African/BA 'rift', that BA's can be very harsh and cruel to Africans 'as well' (quotations for the irony considering that traditionally they've had the 'reputation' of mistreating Africans ), it wasn't actually me who highlighted that one particular example ( the harshest of course, because death is it, the end ), it's what everyone seems to be responding to , not the physical fights or 'African jokes'. I wonder what your response would be to Africans in the U.S who give you first hand info. about negative encounters they've had with BA's, it's like seriously questioning there's a college named after Medgar Evers in Brooklyn just because I've never been there.

I'll say one thing, it is safe to assume that people will believe what they want to believe & use any information to justify those beliefs.

My brother African Prince, in Boston, most of the cab drivers who have been killed in the Black community are Haitian, yet there is no rift between the Haitains and the Black folks of Boston because of this. This is a horrible crime problem, yet we all see ourselves as Black people when it is all said in done. We vote for Black candidates, we eat at each others restaurants, we charge white folks with discrimination when they mess with us and our children.

My mother's people were from the islands, my father's from the south and they married. It is good to know that there is a large Senegalese population in New York, because beleive it or not they too will assimulate into the Black culture of Africans from amerikkka and they too will inter-marry and relate to both cultures. This is happening right now in the hip hop community. OUr young generations, aren't having the problems and the converations that we are having on this board, generally speaking. Hip hop is bridging that gap, and we don't know who is who nowadays. The longer Afrakans are here the more they will blend into the culture of Afrakans in the Diaspora.

My nephew bought a Senegalese young woman to my house. She rapped so good, I thought she was from the south or New York.. She can't do Sabar (and Senegalese dance) and bearly knows Wolof. I'm not happy about that, but for the younger Afrakan generation, this is happening too often. We must work on that.

I am in the middle of Senegal in the village of Jiloor, in January of this year, at a concert of several famous Senegalese, Mali and Guinea artists. Beautiful artists, but guess what was the most popular art form of that evening. You guessed it, RAP.

These young people were rapping in wolof and their co-horts were too happy.

The conversations we are having are all well in good, because it brings our thoughts and opinions to the forefront on our relationships. However, it is expedient for all of us to come up with solutions.

Africans have a language and culture. They have a big continent with a lot of resources. Afrakans of the amerikkkas have a language and a culture as well. We must share, we must form coalitions. Afrakans in amerikkka have access to money, knowledge, wisdom, power, as do some Afrakans from the continent and we must take advantage of these things for the betterment of all Afrakan people.

We will always deal with ignoramouses like 888, 666 and Simba , and ignorant Black Afrakans from the diaspora , but that is a temporary condition. It happened when Afrakans moved from the south to north, when so-called-west indian-Afrakans arrived on the shores of Boston and New York, when the Haitains came here in droves 15 years ago.

Lastly, I am always interested and who writes these aritcles like the one you posted about the cab drivers. It is a nightmare for non-melinated people and people who love them (Condelazza, Colon) to see us Afrakans together. Articles like this tear us apart. We therefore need to consider the source of information on a subject that has to do with us as Afrakan people. The jewish run media, is instrumental in our self-hate and we always need to questions sites that write about us.

Notice how the article starts off with "most french people.....". Why does this Afrakan start an article with that and that's a lie right there.

What was the point of saying the 41 Senegalese were killed in Harlem? That is very subliminally tainted. There is not a positive side to this article about relationships b/w BA and A's except in last paragraph. Well, ain't that a coincidence.

Consider the source, Brother Prince before you start quoting from people that don't have a full perspective of what is going on and want to please the white maaaan as my Senegalese husband would say to get an article posted in his paper. I know we eat in these places because Senegalese food taste like food from the south and the islands and we ain't timid about it.



" It's hardly surprising that Harlem's other black populations are greatly mistrusted in this climate."

What the hell was that about! No wonder we are having this conversation. This is trash!

Thank you Brother for sharing your veiws on this subject. We have a lot to learn from each other.

Consider the source, Brother Prince before you start quoting from people that don't have a full perspective of what is going on and want to please the white maaaan as my Senegalese husband would say to get an article posted in his paper. I know we eat in these places because Senegalese food taste like food from the south and the islands and we ain't timid about it.


As I said before sister Pdiane, I actually do eat in the Senegalese places in 116th street. I am there at least every other weekend (usually eating brown rice & Lamb or Mafe Yap). There is no rift...that "article" greatly exaggerates the African & African American relationships in Harlem!

My brother African Prince, in Boston, most of the cab drivers who have been killed in the Black community are Haitian, yet there is no rift between the Haitains and the Black folks of Boston because of this. This is a horrible crime problem, yet we all see ourselves as Black people when it is all said in done. We vote for Black candidates, we eat at each others restaurants, we charge white folks with discrimination when they mess with us and our children.

My mother's people were from the islands, my father's from the south and they married. It is good to know that there is a large Senegalese population in New York, because beleive it or not they too will assimulate into the Black culture of Africans from amerikkka and they too will inter-marry and relate to both cultures. This is happening right now in the hip hop community. OUr young generations, aren't having the problems and the converations that we are having on this board, generally speaking. Hip hop is bridging that gap, and we don't know who is who nowadays. The longer Afrakans are here the more they will blend into the culture of Afrakans in the Diaspora.

My nephew bought a Senegalese young woman to my house. She rapped so good, I thought she was from the south or New York.. She can't do Sabar (and Senegalese dance) and bearly knows Wolof. I'm not happy about that, but for the younger Afrakan generation, this is happening too often. We must work on that.

I am in the middle of Senegal in the village of Jiloor, in January of this year, at a concert of several famous Senegalese, Mali and Guinea artists. Beautiful artists, but guess what was the most popular art form of that evening. You guessed it, RAP.

These young people were rapping in wolof and their co-horts were too happy.

The conversations we are having are all well in good, because it brings our thoughts and opinions to the forefront on our relationships. However, it is expedient for all of us to come up with solutions.

Africans have a language and culture. They have a big continent with a lot of resources. Afrakans of the amerikkkas have a language and a culture as well. We must share, we must form coalitions. Afrakans in amerikkka have access to money, knowledge, wisdom, power, as do some Afrakans from the continent and we must take advantage of these things for the betterment of all Afrakan people.

We will always deal with ignoramouses like 888, 666 and Simba , and ignorant Black Afrakans from the diaspora , but that is a temporary condition. It happened when Afrakans moved from the south to north, when so-called-west indian-Afrakans arrived on the shores of Boston and New York, when the Haitains came here in droves 15 years ago.

Lastly, I am always interested and who writes these aritcles like the one you posted about the cab drivers. It is a nightmare for non-melinated people and people who love them (Condelazza, Colon) to see us Afrakans together. Articles like this tear us apart. We therefore need to consider the source of information on a subject that has to do with us as Afrakan people. The jewish run media, is instrumental in our self-hate and we always need to questions sites that write about us.

Notice how the article starts off with "most french people.....". Why does this Afrakan start an article with that and that's a lie right there.

What was the point of saying the 41 Senegalese were killed in Harlem? That is very subliminally tainted. There is not a positive side to this article about relationships b/w BA and A's except in last paragraph. Well, ain't that a coincidence.

Consider the source, Brother Prince before you start quoting from people that don't have a full perspective of what is going on and want to please the white maaaan as my Senegalese husband would say to get an article posted in his paper. I know we eat in these places because Senegalese food taste like food from the south and the islands and we ain't timid about it.



" It's hardly surprising that Harlem's other black populations are greatly mistrusted in this climate."

What the hell was that about! No wonder we are having this conversation. This is trash!

Thank you Brother for sharing your veiws on this subject. We have a lot to learn from each other.


pDIANE, Like you, that was very beautiful... More importantly, wise words from a warrior woman, Black Man's Treasure(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

It does my heart good to see the last 3 posts in this thread.

PEACE to all my Black peoples, both in the West and in the East.

African Prince, I'm gonna prop you for being worthy champion of your views, despite the fact that I have major disagreements with much of what you said. I admire you for hanging in there with amazing diplomatic grace, without resorting to Simbaesque-like inflammatory bombast... You deserv all of our respect for operating within true spirit of Pan Africanism....

Also, wanna prop all the family members for conducting ourselves with intelligence, eloquence, and wisdom of the highest order. I think we should never let the sun set on our disagreements with one another... Once foul moods and poisonous thoughts start to ferment, close the door, 'cause the dance is over... I'm proud, however, to "know" good folks from both sides in this debate emerged, and brought us to a higher plane...

Peace!
Isaiah

As I said before sister Pdiane, I actually do eat in the Senegalese places in 116th street. I am there at least every other weekend (usually eating brown rice & Lamb or Mafe Yap). There is no rift...that "article" greatly exaggerates the African & African American relationships in Harlem!
I know that's right Brother Panafrica!

African Prince, I'm gonna prop you for being worthy champion of your views, despite the fact that I have major disagreements with much of what you said. I admire you for hanging in there with amazing diplomatic grace, without resorting to Simbaesque-like inflammatory bombast... You deserv all of our respect for operating within true spirit of Pan Africanism....

Also, wanna prop all the family members for conducting ourselves with intelligence, eloquence, and wisdom of the highest order. I think we should never let the sun set on our disagreements with one another... Once foul moods and poisonous thoughts start to ferment, close the door, 'cause the dance is over... I'm proud, however, to "know" good folks from both sides in this debate emerged, and brought us to a higher plane...

Peace!
Isaiah

No doubt Brother Isaiah, we are blessed to have African Prince among us, for he speaks for many Afrakans from the Continent and he is telling us what we need to know.

Also, thank you for your compliments. You know you are all that and a peice of cake! Peace and Love.

Like I said before....and just to re-itterate...

Pan-Africanism isn't a necessity for me in a relationship.

It's all about the basics.

As long as the woman is black, clean, and feminine...she's alright with me.

If I can clearly see a woman is already black, she ain't gotta "prove" it to me with exteme talk and behavior.


But I do think Africans and AfroAmerican...as well as AfroCaribbeans of Anglo and Latino heritage should get to know on another more on a social level.

Too often people of color seem to only come together when white people bring us together under formal circumstances like work or education; and even then we get to know by accident or happen-stance.

I was just wondering if anyone else felt the same way, but as a Black male I find it hard to find a female counter part who is as passionant about pan-africanism or just African people as a whole as I am. Im not saying that the sistas are not out their but it just seems like americanization has had a major effect on both male and female Black psyche. I was just wondering if anyone else wheither male or female found it hard to find someone that shares the same passion for the mother continent.
You live on the "mother" continent. Haven't you noticed?