I'm a Muslim because I accept that the Koran is the divine revelation of almighty God to His last prophet Muhammad.

I used to be a Christian but after reading the entire bible...I left the Church first, then Christianity all together.

I studied a multitude of religious material but the Koran was the book that made the most sense to me and contained the least amount of mis-understandings/contradictions.




I'm the last brutha to promote that "orthodox" traditionalist type of Islam that has kept the Muslim world in a state of disorder, fuedalism, and back-wardness for the last 500 years or so years.

I wish for the return of the Golden Age of Islam in which the black Moors ruled the Muslim world.

I only hold the Koran as the standard of Islam and see the Hadith as a collection of stories and narrations...some true...some false..that aren't necessary for the practice of our religion.

When I stop believing this, I will stop calling myself a Muslim.



But my question is...

Why do so many who no longer believe this continue to call themelves Muslim, take on Arabic names, and use Muslim jargon?



If you don't believe that Muhammad was the last prophet or that the Koran came from God...

If you believe that most of Islam is a fraud and most of it's literature and rituals are copied from earlier pagan sources and religions.....

I have no problem with you.
I would disagree wholeheartedly, but I'd still respect you and your opinion.


But why in your disbelief do you continue to call yourself a MUSLIM?

I'm truly asking this out of sincerity with absolutely no malice in my heart and no ulterior motives.

Why even claim a religion that you don't really believe in?

Why not just say like I used to....."I believe all religions contain a little truth but at this point I can't trust any"...and move on?

Islam,



Brother I take it that you read a few of my post which I can see is related to the questions of your thread. (laughs)..


Let me just say that I do not subcribe to what is considered "orthodox". I'm a student of Noble Drew Ali, Master Fard Muhammed, The Hon. Elijah Muhammed and Clarence X13. I'm also more intune with the teachings of Sufi Islam.

So maybe my interpratation of what you percieve as "True Islam" is different from yours. One thing that we must not do is over look any logic and the possibilities of HOW the Holy Quran was revealed to Prophet Mohammed.

Brother over stand that Islam was with us before Prophet Mohammed.

Submission to the will of Allah didn't start 1600 years ago.

This concept has been with the Ancients for eons.

Peace.......

I could be wrong, but it appears that, based on many of his statements/questions to me in other threads, that this set of statements is mostly directed towards me.

SALAAM RALFA'IL:

I'm a Muslim because I accept that the Koran is the divine revelation of almighty God to His last prophet Muhammad.

That's what makes you Muslim? Not me...

I used to be a Christian but after reading the entire bible...I left the Church first, then Christianity all together.

I studied a multitude of religious material but the Koran was the book that made the most sense to me and contained the least amount of mis-understandings/contradictions.

I agree here; it does have the "least" amount of contradictions, but contradictions just the same.


I'm the last brutha to promote that "orthodox" traditionalist type of Islam that has kept the Muslim world in a state of disorder, fuedalism, and back-wardness for the last 500 years or so years.

I wish for the return of the Golden Age of Islam in which the black Moors ruled the Muslim world.

I agree with this totally.


I only hold the Koran as the standard of Islam and see the Hadith as a collection of stories and narrations...some true...some false..that aren't necessary for the practice of our religion.

I more or less agree with this as well.......Especially the part about the HADITH; a bunch of non-sense stories imposed upon to the unsuspecting masses, by certain aspects of Islamic Clergy, who wish to hold the Ummah in line mentallly and spiritually.

I've no use for that whatsoever.

When I stop believing this, I will stop calling myself a Muslim.

Here's where our perspectives diverge then.....

But my question is...

Why do so many who no longer believe this continue to call themelves Muslim, take on Arabic names, and use Muslim jargon?

Here's where I believe that you are mistaken, and are operating off of misconceptions--both about various individuals, and Islam in general.

Having an "ARAB" name does not a Muslim make. Neither does "using Muslim Jargon" (whatever that is).

There are Christians with the name Abdul, Ahmed, Tariq, Ali, etc; do you seek to admonish them for their names?

Speaking of Christians, you are aware that there are Arab Christians, yes? You do know what they call "GOD", yes? I hope you don't think that they call Him "Jehovah".

This "Muslim Jargon" was originally Arabic colloquialism, and had been so far longer than the Prophet was even around.

You do know that "ALLAH" was a deity worshipped before the QUR'AN was written, yes? SHE was part of a Trinity.

This is why it's important to separate one's "religion" from one's "culture".

The NOI and the 5% teach that "Islam is my culture".

I have no "religion".

If you don't believe that Muhammad was the last prophet or that the Koran came from God...

If you believe that most of Islam is a fraud and most of it's literature and rituals are copied from earlier pagan sources and religions.....

I have no problem with you.
I would disagree wholeheartedly, but I'd still respect you and your opinion.

This is the problem with most of the Islamic Ummah (world); imposing one's ideas upon another. You should have no problem with me, regardless of what I do.

Why would you lose any sleep, because whatever I choose to call myself? I certainly don't lose any over you.


But why in your disbelief do you continue to call yourself a MUSLIM?

Herein lies the problem: A Muslim is not simply one who believes in the QUR'AN, MUHAMMAD, and ALLAH.

Doesn't the QUR'AN state that ABRAHAM named us MUSLIMS from before?

If so, what then, does that have to do with MUHAMMAD or the QUR'AN, which did not exsist at that time?

Islam for me is not centralized around Muhammad.

As the Lessons teach: "Islam is older than the Sun, Moon, and Stars".

If your Islam is only 1400 years old, then more power to you.

Furthermore, I am a MUSLIM, because of what the word "Muslim" means.

MU'AS-SALIM: One of Peace.

It does not (nor has ever) mean "one who submits". Do you know the word for Submission in Arabic?

The notion that Islam means "submission" is another misconception pushed upon an unsuspecting Ummah, by the same Islamic clergy, under the guise of "IJTAHAD".

It's the same slave mentality from Christianity; stay in "submission", so that you'll never question the non-sense.

Just like the term "ALLAH", the term "MUSLIM" has been around in in Ancient Arabia, back when Black Nubians ruled that land. It's not new.

I claim that title out of my birth right, not because of religious affiliation.

I claim it, the same way I claim being a BODDHISATVA (Buddhist)....... A Buddhist is not one who worships, believes in, or follows Buddha.....

The term BODDHISATVA simply means "Enlightened One". That's what I am.

I would suggest that, instead of admonishing others about what they believe and call themselves, that you take the time to learn more about what YOU believe and call yourself.

Because in the end, that's all that you really need to be concerned with.

I'm truly asking this out of sincerity with absolutely no malice in my heart and no ulterior motives.

Why even claim a religion that you don't really believe in?

I don't claim any religion, as I stated: Islam is my culture.

By the way, you do realize that the term "Islam" is not found anywhere in the QUR'AN, and that MUHAMMAD himself never even used that term......??

The term came AFTER his death. Do you know who coined the word?

Why not just say like I used to....."I believe all religions contain a little truth but at this point I can't trust any"...and move on?

Why would I say something that I don't agree with? And why would I say something, just because you said it?

That has nothing to do with me.

It's obvious that your perception of Islam and "religion" as a whole is diametrically different from mine, and I can respect that; you do your thing, and I'll do mine.

AS SALAAMU ALAYKUM RAHMULITALLAHI, WA BARAKAATU.

Islam,



Brother I take it that you read a few of my post which I can see is related to the questions of your thread. (laughs)..


Let me just say that I do not subcribe to what is considered "orthodox". I'm a student of Noble Drew Ali, Master Fard Muhammed, The Hon. Elijah Muhammed and Clarence X13. I'm also more intune with the teachings of Sufi Islam.

So maybe my interpratation of what you percieve as "True Islam" is different from yours. One thing that we must not do is over look any logic and the possibilities of HOW the Holy Quran was revealed to Prophet Mohammed.

Brother over stand that Islam was with us before Prophet Mohammed.

Submission to the will of Allah didn't start 1600 years ago.

This concept has been with the Ancients for eons.

Peace.......

PEACE JALIL:

I didn't even read your post prior to posting mine.

Everything you stated is all wise, right and exact.

The Honorable Elijah Muhammad stated: "If you wish to see the Black man as God of the Earth, then look to Ancient Egypt".

I believe that Islam for Black people is mean to trace our heritage back to its source.

PEACE

PJ

Salaams bro....

Let me just say that I do not subcribe to what is considered "orthodox". I'm a student of Noble Drew Ali, Master Fard Muhammed, The Hon. Elijah Muhammed and Clarence X13. I'm also more intune with the teachings of Sufi Islam.

It's not so much a matter of what's "orthodox" or traditional when it comes to following the teachings of these men.

They all had a degree of knowledge and influence, but if you accept all of their religions teachings then you will certainly be in error and following false doctrine as far as Islam is concerned.

Do you know that the Nation of Islam teach that 23 other Gods assist the "Supreme God" in writing the future and gathering information?

Do you know that the Nation of Islam deny life after physical death?









Sam


Peace black man....


That's what makes you Muslim? Not me...

So YOU can be a Muslim without accepting the Koran and Muhammad?????

Brutha are you deranged in the membrane?




I more or less agree with this as well.......Especially the part about the HADITH; a bunch of non-sense stories imposed upon to the unsuspecting masses, by certain aspects of Islamic Clergy, who wish to hold the Ummah in line mentallly and spiritually.

I've no use for that whatsoever.
If we agree on nothing else, this is enough for us to stay in good standing with eachother.

Now I gotta straighten you out on the prayers.




Here's where I believe that you are mistaken, and are operating off of misconceptions--both about various individuals, and Islam in general.

Having an "ARAB" name does not a Muslim make. Neither does "using Muslim Jargon" (whatever that is).

There are Christians with the name Abdul, Ahmed, Tariq, Ali, etc; do you seek to admonish them for their names?
No, because they were BORN with those names and most of them have an understanding of what they mean.

But if you reject Islam and Arabism...why choose an Islamic, Arab or Japanese (samurai) name?






Speaking of Christians, you are aware that there are Arab Christians, yes? You do know what they call "GOD", yes? I hope you don't think that they call Him "Jehovah".

They call Him Allah brutha.

The ancient Hebrews called Him Elah also.



This "Muslim Jargon" was originally Arabic colloquialism, and had been so far longer than the Prophet was even around.

You do know that "ALLAH" was a deity worshipped before the QUR'AN was written, yes? SHE was part of a Trinity.

I know the goddess "Allat" as part of a trinity said to be one of the 3 daughters of Allah.

But Allah never was part of any trinity in Arab religion/mythology.





This is the problem with most of the Islamic Ummah (world); imposing one's ideas upon another. You should have no problem with me, regardless of what I do.

Why would you lose any sleep, because whatever I choose to call myself? I certainly don't lose any over you

No, but I don't like to see my beautiful religion mis-represented.

Whether by AfroAmericans who believe in and spread false doctrine...

Or murderous back-ward Arabs and racist Pakistanis who practice corruption and also spread false doctrine.

That's one of the reasons I left Christianity; becaue the people were CLAIMING one thing while believing and practicing another.







Herein lies the problem: A Muslim is not simply one who believes in the QUR'AN, MUHAMMAD, and ALLAH.

Doesn't the QUR'AN state that ABRAHAM named us MUSLIMS from before?


True





If so, what then, does that have to do with MUHAMMAD or the QUR'AN, which did not exsist at that time?
Because one of the requirements of being a BELIEVER is believing in all the Prophets and the Books they brought.

If you don't believe in the Koran or think it contained contradictions and errors and doubt the existance or authority of Muhammad....then you are not a true Muslim.

continuing....



Sam



Islam for me is not centralized around Muhammad.

As the Lessons teach: "Islam is older than the Sun, Moon, and Stars".

If your Islam is only 1400 years old, then more power to you.

Furthermore, I am a MUSLIM, because of what the word "Muslim" means.

MU'AS-SALIM: One of Peace.

It does not (nor has ever) mean "one who submits". Do you know the word for Submission in Arabic?


The notion that Islam means "submission" is another misconception pushed upon an unsuspecting Ummah, by the same Islamic clergy, under the guise of "IJTAHAD".

Thanx for the enlightenment bro...really.






It's the same slave mentality from Christianity; stay in "submission", so that you'll never question the non-sense.

Just like the term "ALLAH", the term "MUSLIM" has been around in in Ancient Arabia, back when Black Nubians ruled that land. It's not new.

Doesn't Islam teach that Muhammad was just one Prophet in a LONG LINE of other prophets teaching the same thing?

So why would we be suprised to see that the revelation he brought matchs that of past scriptures and prophets?

Fact is fact regardless of time or region.




I claim that title out of my birth right, not because of religious affiliation.

I claim it, the same way I claim being a BODDHISATVA (Buddhist)....... A Buddhist is not one who worships, believes in, or follows Buddha.....

The term BODDHISATVA simply means "Enlightened One". That's what I am.

I would suggest that, instead of admonishing others about what they believe and call themselves, that you take the time to learn more about what YOU believe and call yourself.

Because in the end, that's all that you really need to be concerned with.


But Buddhists also believe in re-incarnation and deny the existance of Paradise, Hell, and one Supreme God.

Do you also deny these things?







This is why it's important to separate one's "religion" from one's "culture".

The NOI and the 5% teach that "Islam is my culture".

I have no "religion".



I don't claim any religion, as I stated: Islam is my culture.

By the way, you do realize that the term "Islam" is not found anywhere in the QUR'AN, and that MUHAMMAD himself never even used that term......??

The term came AFTER his death. Do you know who coined the word?


But the problem is brutha....the Koran clearly says:


"Today I perfected your religion for you and completed my favor to you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." (Koran 5:3)


The NOI and the 5% aren't teaching proper and true Islam themselves so how can they tell you when they don't know themeselves?


Don't listen to false doctrine man....

Islam is a RELIGION it's PERFECT and it should be practiced properly.




If you want to call yourself a Muslim, make sure you're practicing ISLAM...not HIS-LAM.

Islam:Translated into English or any other Language means Peace
Kaba: Is pre-historic in origen; The Ka means Spirit, Baa means Soul from
ancient Kemet or Egypt. (African Ancistors)
Phrophet Muhammad: PBH, Life is the most documented of all of
the Phrophets, some known and some are un-known in the west.
There are more so-called Black African Muslims in Africa than the total population of Arabia. Agree or dis-agree, Islam has been a save-ing grace among Africans in America. Islam gave us Nobel Drew Ali, Elijah Muhammad, Malik Shabazz, Muhammad Ali, W.D. Mohammed, Hon.Min.Louis Farrakhan, Kalid Muhammad, Dr. Niam Akbar, Siles Muhammad, "The Million Man March", The Million Family March,The Oct.16 2005, 10 Million Man March and "All" of the "Contributions","Growth" in the Minds, Understanding and Positive ir-reversable direction twords the total and complete Freedom,Equality,Justice and Salvation of the so-called Black Man and Woman in America and around the world. How can any one in their right mind confuse our lagitimate struggle with being a Fraud unless that person is either ignorant or the Open Enemy to us all. Islam has and is along with Cristianity been our (Africans in America) save-ing grace here in the "Hells" of America. We need each other Brothers and Sisters. We don't need Confusion and Foolishness.
Sincerely

Moor

I agree with everything you've said but I need a little more clarification of what you meant by those calling our struggle a "fraud" being ignorant or an enemy.


Are you Muslim?

PEACE RALFA'IL:

For someone who shirks the ideals of "orthodoxy" and traditionalism of Islam, you certainly do echo them rather eloquently.

Do you know that the Nation of Islam teach that 23 other Gods assist the "Supreme God" in writing the future and gathering information?

WRONG.

Your gross misinterpretation of the Hon. Elijah Muhammad's teachings is atrocious.

Please QUOTE where you got this info from.

In the meantime, the correct info, is that the 24 ELDERS (not "GODS") are the ones responsible for prophecy and history.

This teaching is taken from the Book of Revelations.......Read that book lately?

Do you know that the Nation of Islam deny life after physical death?

WRONG AGAIN.

Do you know what the NOI teaches that The Hon. Elijah Muhammad went after he died?

It appears that you are not at all well-studied on the teachings of the NOI.

So YOU can be a Muslim without accepting the Koran and Muhammad?????

Brutha are you deranged in the membrane?

Brother, I humbly request that you refrain from the banter. It's not needed to carry on a discourse.

As such, perhaps what I should have stated, is that that's not ALL that makes me Muslim.

By the way, the acceptance of Muhammad is INNOVATION in Islam.

Nevertheless, I had already stated what a Muslim was, based on the etymology of the word. Either take it or leave it.

No, because they were BORN with those names and most of them have an understanding of what they mean.

Who on earth are you speaking about?

There are Negroes in the Church around the corner from me, with names like this......I've asked many of them, what they're names mean, and aside from an ignorant shrug of the shoulder, that have naught for an answer to give.

Don't presume to speak for people, my friend.

But if you reject Islam and Arabism...why choose an Islamic, Arab or Japanese (samurai) name?

Where have you read that I reject any of the 3 things that you mentioned?

Please do not put words into my mouth.

Ironically, the commonality that all 3 things that you stated share, is the fact that the Black Man, the Original Man, is the founder of all 3.

Besides, what does a Nipponai title (SAMURAI) have to do with my perspective on Islam?

They call Him Allah brutha.

Yes, they do......So then, does your admonishment also extend to them? By your logic, they should have no business saying "ALLAH", since that is a "MUSLIM" term.

However, in reality it is not. It is simply a Semitic one.

The ancient Hebrews called Him Elah also.

Among other things, yes.

I know the goddess "Allat" as part of a trinity said to be one of the 3 daughters of Allah.

But Allah never was part of any trinity in Arab religion/mythology.


"Is said"......? Is this based on your own studies on the subject?

By the way, that's not what the QUR'AN says on the matter......And beyond that, the spiritual systems practiced in SABA and HIMYAR say otherwise.

ALLAH was the feminine aspect (MOON GODDESS) in a hierarchial Trinity pantheon that consisted of 360 Gods.

Why do you think that the the universally recognized symbol for Islam is the Crescent Moon?

Your "God" is a WOMAN, my brother, as she very well should be.

As a matter of fact, each of the 99+1 Attributes for Allah (the TAWHIYD science in Islam) were names taken from 100 of these deities.

It seems thus, that you cannot escape the "paganism" that you abhor so much. :rolleyes:

I may post more info on the pathology of ALLAT, ALLAH, and MIZNAT, and how they correlate to Kemetic Metu Neter (AUSAR, AUSET, and HERU) in another thread later.

No, but I don't like to see my beautiful religion mis-represented.

Your "beautiful religion" is as tained and defiled as any other "religion" that man has had his grubby little hands on.

And that tainting begins with yourself; before you seek to declare a Jihad on anyone and/or the world, why don't you seek to rectify alot of the misconceptions that you have within the trappings of your own mind?

Whether by AfroAmericans who believe in and spread false doctrine...

Or murderous back-ward Arabs and racist Pakistanis who practice corruption and also spread false doctrine.

That's one of the reasons I left Christianity; becaue the people were CLAIMING one thing while believing and practicing another.

Then isn't it time that you left Islam then?

Why hold on with such a tight emotional vice to Islam, yet let go of Christianity?

Emotional sensationalism has no place in spiritual ascension, my friend. Approach these ideologies with your Higher Self, instead of your Lower Self, and you'll perhaps begin to see that these "religions" need you, you don't need them.......Especially not to get closer to the Divine.


True

If you are saying true to this now, why then were you insulting me with "derranged membrane" jokes, when I had alluded to precisely the same thing?

This is the result of the emotionality (Lower Self) that you operate from. Contradictions runneth abound when you operate from such a mind-state.

Focus, my brother, and breathe deeply........Concentrate.

Because one of the requirements of being a BELIEVER is believing in all the Prophets and the Books they brought.

If you don't believe in the Koran or think it contained contradictions and errors and doubt the existance or authority of Muhammad....then you are not a true Muslim.

Firstly, I do not "believe" in anything....Either I know it, or I don't.

Second, I just explained the origin and etymology of the word Muslim. That is what I am.

Aside from your emotional affiliations with your "religion", I do not know why (nor do I care) you chose to concern yourself with what anyone else does.

All things return to ZERO eventually, and we shall all come to see what is correct and what is not.

If I'm wrong, then I'm more than prepared to accept such a reckoning........The question is are you as well?

In continuance.........


If we agree on nothing else, this is enough for us to stay in good standing with eachother.

Now I gotta straighten you out on the prayers.

You haven't "straightened me out" about anything, nor can you do so.

With all humility, I can honestly say that you are not very well versed on Qur'anic understandings, and your interpretations of such (that I've seen
here, in discussions with you thus far), have been lacking.

As I'd stated in my previous posts in this thread, the only person you should be concerning yourself with, is YOURSELF.

Doesn't Islam teach that Muhammad was just one Prophet in a LONG LINE of other prophets teaching the same thing?

So why would we be suprised to see that the revelation he brought matchs that of past scriptures and prophets?

Fact is fact regardless of time or region.

What does this have to do with the set of statements that you quoted from me, in response to, which was:

Just like the term "ALLAH", the term "MUSLIM" has been around in in Ancient Arabia, back when Black Nubians ruled that land. It's not new.

Allow me once more to clarify:

You are speaking about intercultural terms, that had meanings transcending the Abrahamic legacy.

"ALLAH" as a HIMYARIC ARABIC word did not come into exsistence with Muhammad, or any other biblical prophet (that you can't even prove existed).

ALLAH was worshipped as part of a trinity, along with 360 other deities long before, and up to the time Muhammad came on the scene.

Are you familiar with this, yes or no?

But Buddhists also believe in re-incarnation and deny the existance of Paradise, Hell, and one Supreme God.

Do you also deny these things?

Your interpretations of religions outside of that which is "Islamic" is appauling, grossly misinterpreted, and down-right WRONG.

As this is neither the time nor place to give you a dissertation about Buddhism (and you seem neither willing nor able to be receptive to it even if I did), I will give you tidbits of info:

The concept of Heaven and Hell as "places" is indeed absent for the Boddhisatva; however that does not mean that the concepts altogether are as well.

NIRVANA would be the closest concept to your "JANNAH" (HEAVEN), without the hedonistic 72 virgins and other such non-sense.

Reincarnation is not without conditions, and it is certainly not perpetual. As with Heaven/Hell, the Supreme Intelligence exsists, just in a more impersonal manner, and Its Presence is expressed via the duality of the Universe.

Any Buddhist worth the name could tell you all of this; I'd ask where you got such information, but given your misinterpretations in several threads thus far, I reckon I do not wish to even know :(

But the problem is brutha....the Koran clearly says:


"Today I perfected your religion for you and completed my favor to you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." (Koran 5:3)

Ah yes.......And what is the word for "religion" in Arabic? Do you know?

The Bible is not the only victim of mistranslations, you know.

The NOI and the 5% aren't teaching proper and true Islam themselves so how can they tell you when they don't know themeselves?


Don't listen to false doctrine man....

Islam is a RELIGION it's PERFECT and it should be practiced properly.

In addition to gross misinterpretations, you are also guilty of making ***-umptions.

When did I ever state, anywhere on this board, that the NOI is my sole source of understanding of Islam?

If you want to call yourself a Muslim, make sure you're practicing ISLAM...not HIS-LAM.

LMAO @ your meaningless judgments.

Thanx for the enlightenment bro...really.

Presuming your sincerity, then you're quite welcome.

MA'SALAAM

Just for the record,

Not only did Elijah Muhammad deviate from what Farad taught, but Farrakhan has deviated from what Elijah taught.


Alright now.......





Samurai

WRONG.

Your gross misinterpretation of the Hon. Elijah Muhammad's teachings is atrocious.

Please QUOTE where you got this info from.

In the meantime, the correct info, is that the 24 ELDERS (not "GODS") are the ones responsible for prophecy and history.

This teaching is taken from the Book of Revelations.......Read that book lately?

In Message to the Black Man on page 55 Elijah Muhammad stated:

"The original black nation used 23 scientists to write the future of that nation for the next 25,000 years, and the 24th is the Judge or the one God, Allah. Allah taught me that, once upon a time they made history to last for 35,000 years."

He mentioned NOTHING about 24 elders.






WRONG AGAIN.

Do you know what the NOI teaches that The Hon. Elijah Muhammad went after he died?

It appears that you are not at all well-studied on the teachings of the NOI.


Brutha have you ever read the Supreme Wisdom Lessons?


LOST-FOUND MUSLIM LESSON NO. 2
13. What brings rain, hail, snow and Earthquakes?

ANS. They continue daily to teach the 85% that all this that you see such as
rain, snow, hail and Earthquakes comes from that mystery God that no one
will ever be able to see until he dies. This is believed by the 85%.
The 10% know that when man dies that he will never come back and tell the
living whether he lied or not because the dead is never known to return
from the grave.
All the History of Islam never reveals anything that no man had ever been
able to come back from a physical death. But there is a chance for mental
death because the Lost-Found was once dead mentally and many of them
revived from it. But they were not physically dead --- only mentally dead.



So according to the TRUE teachings of the NOI..not just what some of the ministers say in public...there is no life after a physical death.








Who on earth are you speaking about?

There are Negroes in the Church around the corner from me, with names like this......I've asked many of them, what they're names mean, and aside from an ignorant shrug of the shoulder, that have naught for an answer to give.

Don't presume to speak for people, my friend.
Yes, mostly because their parents gave them Muslim and Arabic names without truly understanding what they meant.

Others may have been Muslim or in the Nation of Islam and named their children that after they back-slid and ended up in the church.

Doesn't mean they are justified in taking on names for which they know not the meaning, that's just a sign of ignorance.





Besides, what does a Nipponai title (SAMURAI) have to do with my perspective on Islam?

Are you Japanese or Nipponese?

If not, why are you taking on the name of someone not your own?







"Is said"......? Is this based on your own studies on the subject?

By the way, that's not what the QUR'AN says on the matter......And beyond that, the spiritual systems practiced in SABA and HIMYAR say otherwise.

ALLAH was the feminine aspect (MOON GODDESS) in a hierarchial Trinity pantheon that consisted of 360 Gods.

Why do you think that the the universally recognized symbol for Islam is the Crescent Moon?

Your "God" is a WOMAN, my brother, as she very well should be.

As a matter of fact, each of the 99+1 Attributes for Allah (the TAWHIYD science in Islam) were names taken from 100 of these deities.

It seems thus, that you cannot escape the "paganism" that you abhor so much.

I may post more info on the pathology of ALLAT, ALLAH, and MIZNAT, and how they correlate to Kemetic Metu Neter (AUSAR, AUSET, and HERU) in another thread later.

As usual, brutha you have absolutely NO IDEA of what you are talking about.

The word "Allah" is a contraction of Al and Ilah which means "The God"...plain and simple.

He was always known as male in gender, never female.

There was a goddess called "allat" but not Allah.






Your "beautiful religion" is as tained and defiled as any other "religion" that man has had his grubby little hands on.

And that tainting begins with yourself; before you seek to declare a Jihad on anyone and/or the world, why don't you seek to rectify alot of the misconceptions that you have within the trappings of your own mind?

Did I declare or threaten to declare any type of "jihad" on you?

I simply pointed out where you errored in the religion.

I just SHOWED you with evidence from the Koran that Islam is a perfect religion yet you refuse to acknowledge clear argument.

It's hopeless.....








Firstly, I do not "believe" in anything....Either I know it, or I don't.

So you don't believe anything...that's the silliest statement I ever heard on this or any other forum.






Second, I just explained the origin and etymology of the word Muslim. That is what I am.

Aside from your emotional affiliations with your "religion", I do not know why (nor do I care) you chose to concern yourself with what anyone else does.

All things return to ZERO eventually, and we shall all come to see what is correct and what is not.

Well, if I'm wrong, then I'm more than prepared to accept such a reckoning........The question is are you as well?

If I am wrong....YOU haven't proved me so yet as I've proven you on serveral occasions.


You said that Islam was corrupted, you have no religion, and that Islam is mentioned no where in the Koran.

I showed you:

"Today I perfected your religion for you and completed my favor to you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." (Koran 5:3)

Proving all your points wrong.





Allow me once more to clarify:

You are speaking about intercultural terms, that had meanings transcending the Abrahamic legacy.

"ALLAH" as a HIMYARIC ARABIC word did not come into exsistence with Muhammad, or any other biblical prophet (that you can't even prove existed).

ALLAH was worshipped as part of a trinity, along with 360 other deities long before, and up to the time Muhammad came on the scene.

Are you familiar with this, yes or no?

Once again, instead of putting these questionable theories and revelations out here, why don't you provide me some scriputural or other documented evidence for it?

You can't.....





Ah yes.......And what is the word for "religion" in Arabic? Do you know?

The more appropriate question to ask would be: Do I care?




The Bible is not the only victim of mistranslations, you know.

I know.

Because according to you...every one of your statements I prove incorrect was a "victim" of my misunderstanding and illogic.


Salaams bro...you're lost but I still got love for you.

Just for the record,

Not only did Elijah Muhammad deviate from what Farad taught, but Farrakhan has deviated from what Elijah taught.

So? What student on this earth, has not deviated even in the slightest from what their teacher taught?

You think Islam as a whole is exactly as Prophet Muhammad left it?

That's called "growth".

And though I may not agree with all the deviations on the part of all students, that does not mean that some of the deviations are valid.

Besides, Malcolm X "deviated" from what Elijah taught as well........Do you have a problem with that?

In Message to the Black Man on page 55 Elijah Muhammad stated:

"The original black nation used 23 scientists to write the future of that nation for the next 25,000 years, and the 24th is the Judge or the one God, Allah. Allah taught me that, once upon a time they made history to last for 35,000 years."

He mentioned NOTHING about 24 elders.

He also mentioned NOTHING about 24 "GODS" either.....Remember that was your statement.

You specifically stated:

"Do you know that the Nation of Islam teach that 23 other Gods assist the "Supreme God" in writing the future and gathering information?"

Is this not what you stated?



WRONG AGAIN.

Do you know what the NOI teaches that The Hon. Elijah Muhammad went after he died?

It appears that you are not at all well-studied on the teachings of the NOI.


Brutha have you ever read the Supreme Wisdom Lessons?


LOST-FOUND MUSLIM LESSON NO. 2
13. What brings rain, hail, snow and Earthquakes?

ANS. They continue daily to teach the 85% that all this that you see such as
rain, snow, hail and Earthquakes comes from that mystery God that no one
will ever be able to see until he dies. This is believed by the 85%.
The 10% know that when man dies that he will never come back and tell the
living whether he lied or not because the dead is never known to return
from the grave.
All the History of Islam never reveals anything that no man had ever been
able to come back from a physical death. But there is a chance for mental
death because the Lost-Found was once dead mentally and many of them
revived from it. But they were not physically dead --- only mentally dead.

So according to the TRUE teachings of the NOI..not just what some of the ministers say in public...there is no life after a physical death.

Wow, your miserable interpretation of this Lesson is laughable.

No where does it say that there is no life after death, only that there is no "Mystery God" to be seen afterward, and that no one has ever came back after a physical death to tell about it.

Where in these LESSONS can you QUOTE, there there is no life after a physical death?


Yes, mostly because their parents gave them Muslim and Arabic names without truly understanding what they meant.

Others may have been Muslim or in the Nation of Islam and named their children that after they back-slid and ended up in the church.

Doesn't mean they are justified in taking on names for which they know not the meaning, that's just a sign of ignorance.

Yes, I agree with this, but that wasn't your original assertion. I'm glad that you ammended your perspective though.


re you Japanese or Nipponese?

If not, why are you taking on the name of someone not your own?

Man, do you even read all of my statements in their entirety? I already answered this question. I'm not answering it again.

Are you an ARAB? If not, then "why are you taking on the name of someone not your own?"

Last I checked, "RALFA'IL" is an Arab's name.

As usual, brutha you have absolutely NO IDEA of what you are talking about.

The word "Allah" is a contraction of Al and Ilah which means "The God"...plain and simple.

He was always known as male in gender, never female.

There was a goddess called "allat" but not Allah.

Why is it that no one here ever knows what they are talking about, except you?

I would tell you to study QUFIC Arabic, instead of the Classic and/or Maghrib Arabic that is used currently, and take keen notice to the differences.

For that matter, all words in ancient Arabic that end in "AH" were originally feminine in gender.

Have you studied the language, yes or no?

Did I declare or threaten to declare any type of "jihad" on you?

I simply pointed out where you errored in the religion.

I just SHOWED you with evidence from the Koran that Islam is a perfect religion yet you refuse to acknowledge clear argument.

It's hopeless.....

You apparently went on this mission to show and prove something that is totally subjective.

What I refuse to acknowledge is your watered down english translation of the QUR'AN.

Read the text in Arabic, and come back and tell me what that word for "religion" says.

So you don't believe anything...that's the silliest statement I ever heard on this or any other forum.

Wow, more insults from you.......Need I advise you, that you are acting very uncharacteristic of how a Muslim should conduct himself?

If I am wrong....YOU haven't proved me so yet as I've proven you on serveral occasions.


You said that Islam was corrupted, you have no religion, and that Islam is mentioned no where in the Koran.

I showed you:

"Today I perfected your religion for you and completed my favor to you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." (Koran 5:3)

Proving all your points wrong.

All that you've "proven", is that you have no knowledge of Islam in today's times, that you are a religious follower, and that you believe in a shoddy translation of the QUR'AN without questioning it.

Is this the proof that you speak of?


Once again, instead of putting these questionable theories and revelations out here, why don't you provide me some scriputural or other documented evidence for it?

You can't.....

Does anyone here besides me, take notice to how this guy NEVER answers any of my questions?

I've concluded that it's pointless to even ask them. :(



Ah yes.......And what is the word for "religion" in Arabic? Do you know?

The more appropriate question to ask would be: Do I care?

Wow. This says it all for me.

Assuming that the answer you this question is "no", then why are you starting threads in attempts to prove me wrong, if you "don't care"?

I know.

Because according to you...every one of your statements I prove incorrect was a "victim" of my misunderstanding and illogic.


Salaams bro...you're lost but I still got love for you.[/B]

With this, I've come to see that discussing anything with you is pointless.

All you've "proven", in this thread and all the others, is that you are going to think whatever you wish, despite any other perspective presented.

Do you, fam.

PEACE

Sam


Salaams


So? What student on this earth, has not deviated even in the slightest from what their teacher taught?
Yes but the deviations are more than just "slight".

They even deviate on core principles and believes on each other's identities.


Fard called himself a prophet while Elijah called him the Messiah.

And while Elijah called FARD the Messiah...Farrakhan called ELIJAH the Messiah.





You think Islam as a whole is exactly as Prophet Muhammad left it?

Muhammad didn't create or innovate Islam.

He just introduced it to a lost people, but the teaches and doctrine of submitting to the one true God has always been.





Besides, Malcolm X "deviated" from what Elijah taught as well........Do you have a problem with that?
No, because his deviation was for the better.





He also mentioned NOTHING about 24 "GODS" either.....Remember that was your statement.

You specifically stated:

"Do you know that the Nation of Islam teach that 23 other Gods assist the "Supreme God" in writing the future and gathering information?"

Is this not what you stated?
And didn't you just state that it was 24 scientists as mentioned in Revelation when he mentioned nothing about 24?

The game is tied my brutha....

Oh but wait!

Since Allah needs no "assistance" and to associate PARTNERS with Allah is an unforgivable sin, whatever the hell they are called doesn't matter.

He was wrong for saying it.






Wow, your miserable interpretation of this Lesson is laughable.

No where does it say that there is no life after death, only that there is no "Mystery God" to be seen afterward, and that no one has ever came back after a physical death to tell about it.

Where in these LESSONS can you QUOTE, there there is no life after a physical death?

It said it right there.

And Elijah Muhammad has said on many occasions that there is no life beyond the grave.


But since no one ever comes back to say anything, how do YOU, Farrakhan, or any one else know where Elijah is and what messages he may be giving?






Yes, I agree with this, but that wasn't your original assertion. I'm glad that you ammended your perspective though.

So atleast this is one thing we agree on.







Man, do you even read all of my statements in their entirety? I already answered this question. I'm not answering it again.

Are you an ARAB? If not, then "why are you taking on the name of someone not your own?"

Last I checked, "RALFA'IL" is an Arab's name.

I don't know where you checked, because Ralfa'il isn't an Arabic name.





Why is it that no one here ever knows what they are talking about, except you?

I would tell you to study QUFIC Arabic, instead of the Classic and/or Maghrib Arabic that is used currently, and take keen notice to the differences.

For that matter, all words in ancient Arabic that end in "AH" were originally feminine in gender.



Bring your proof of this.

Was Bakkah (the original name of Mecca) feminine?

Was Medinah feminine?

Was the Kabah feminine?





Wow, more insults from you.......Need I advise you, that you are acting very uncharacteristic of how a Muslim should conduct himself?

I said your STATEMENT was silly, I didn't say you were.

But the more silly statements from you I read.....




All that you've "proven", is that you have no knowledge of Islam in today's times, that you are a religious follower, and that you believe in a shoddy translation of the QUR'AN without questioning it.

Is this the proof that you speak of?
Does it matter?

Again, you said that you didn't have a religion and the word "Islam" was found no where in the Koran and I debunked the latter and showed you where you errored in the former, that's all that matters.





Does anyone here besides me, take notice to how this guy NEVER answers any of my questions?

Why should I answer MORE of your questions when you never learn from the answers I've provided for you already?

I provide clear facts and evidence for you and instead of acknowledging it and thanking me for the information, you ignore it and go off on other meaningless tangents like

"Where did the word Arabia come from; if you don't know yuze a fool."

or

"How do you really know the sun is really shining...only diamonds shine brutha"




Wow. This says it all for me.

Assuming that the answer you this question is "no", then why are you starting threads in attempts to prove me wrong, if you "don't care"?

I didn't start this thread to "prove" you wrong....I've been doing that quite well on other threads.

I started this thread to QUESTION people who call themselves Muslim but don't really believe in Islamic teachings.






With this, I've come to see that discussing anything with you is pointless.

All you've "proven", in this thread and all the others, is that you are going to think whatever you wish, despite any other perspective presented.

So in other words, you're petering out.

If you want to hold a discussion with me...bring me some facts and evidence of you assertions and I will do like wise.

But when I bring clear evidence to debunk what you've said and you start flying in all directions like some mis-guided missle then don't expect for me to follow.

So in other words, you're petering out.

No, in other words, I grow weary of taking your insults and condescension, where none was offer towards you.

If you think this is what intelligent discourse is, then you are sadly mistaken.

In fact, this entire thread is condescending: questioning people's beliefs as if anyone owes you any such explanation, and then speaking ill of their explanations once given.

But this is the example of a Muslim who follows the "perfect religion" these days, I suppose. :rolleyes:


If you want to hold a discussion with me...bring me some facts and evidence of you assertions and I will do like wise.

Then you haven't been paying attention: I no longer with to hold a discussion with you.

But when I bring clear evidence to debunk what you've said and you start flying in all directions like some mis-guided missle then don't expect for me to follow.

More condescension.......Hardly have you, in this thread nor in the others, taken the time to even examine what I've stated.

You've posed questions, and then sought to answer them for yourself:

We are "lost, deviating Muslims, who follow heathen ideologies". Isn't that what you stated?

So then, if you "knew" this from the beginning, why even bother to ask?

As I stated before: Do you fam.

PEACE

We are "lost, deviating Muslims, who follow heathen ideologies". Isn't that what you stated?


Not exactly....YOU inserted the word "muslim".


But seriously.....

The only problem I have is people hiding behind the title "Muslim" when they really don't believe Islamic idealogy.

Again, one of the reasons I left the Church was because the people weren't practiciing what they claimed to believe in and kept sending mixed signals.


I don't believe we should go the traditionalist superstitious route that so many Asians and Africans are going that's getting them basically nowhere; nor should we lose the plot of our religion.

The Koran itself is powerful enough to spark revolution, shake up Satan's establishment, and bring in a new world without adding weird science and out-rageous mythology.