Abraham the Patriarch, the father of all Semitic people, was a Chaldean by birth, emanating from the city of Ur in Chaldea (an ancient Asian country on the western shores of the Persian Gulf) – according to the Biblical record – in the year 1917 BC. He was a descendant of Eber, the great-grandson of Shem, who was the eldest son of Noah. His father was Terah, who was also Chaldean [Gen. 11:28]. It stands to reason, therefore, that Abraham was not a Jew – as is generally supposed – and furthermore, Jewish people did not exist during his time...

His sons Ishmael and Isaac were not Jews, neither were his grandsons Esau and Jacob, and neither were the sons of Jacob – Abraham’s great-grandsons – Reuben, Shimeon and Levi. The fourth son of Jacob, born in the year 1753 BC. was named Judah, and his descendants were called “Jews,” an abbreviated and corrupt form of the Hebrew “Yahudim.”

When Abraham [the name translates “father of a multitude”] and his followers left the city of Ur in Chaldea and crossed the Euphrates River on their way to Canaan (Gen. 12:5), he and his people were called "Eberus," in order to distinguish them from the people who stayed behind. The word “Eber” translates “the region beyond” in the Hebrew language, and the names “Eberu” and “Eberus” were used by Abraham and the descendants of Eber, Noah’s great, great-grandson.

Through incorrect transliteration by some of the Biblical translators, Abraham The Eberu became Abraham the “Hebrew” (Gen. 14:13), a name by which some Jews are called even today. But Hebrew is the language of the Jewish people. There is no such thing as a Hebrew race or Hebrew people...

Abraham begot Ishmael, his first-born son, by Hagar, an African woman who was also the daughter of an Egyptian-Ethiopian Pharaoh. He begot Isaac, his second son, by Sarah, his Chaldean wife who was also his half-sister (Gen. 20:11-12). Ishmael is regarded as the father of all Arabs, whereas Isaac is regarded as the father of all Jews...

Ishmael’s first-born son was named Kedar,which translates “black-skinned.” The Bible and the Qur’an are at variance as to which of Abraham’s sons was offered for sacrifice. According to the Bible it was Isaac (Gen. 22:2). The Qur’an, on the other hand, declares clearly and unequivocally that it was Ishmael (Sura 37:103).

The Bible contradicts itself in this respect. According to it, Abraham was commanded to offer his “only son” for sacrifice, but Isaac was at no time his only son. Ishmael was senior to Isaac by 13 years, and was for these many years Abraham’s only son, and, being also his firstborn, was extremely dear to him. It stands to reason, therefore, that Abraham must have been required by God to offer for sacrifice his nearest and dearest possession, which, at that time, was his first-born son, Ishmael...

Some Christian evangelists have vainly tried to show that “Ishmael, being of the handmaiden, was born after the flesh, while Isaac, being born of the free woman, was by promise” (Gal. 4:22-23). Apart from the fact that Hagar, Ishmael’s mother, belonged to the royal family of Egypt and was no handmaid, Ishmael has repeatedly been mentioned in the Bible as Abraham’s son (Gen. 16:16, 17:23 & 25), exactly as Isaac. Moreover, analogous promises were made to Abraham in regard to the future greatness of Ishmael as were made to him about Isaac (Gen. 16:10 and 17:20).

Apart from the substitution in the Bible of Isaac for Ishmael – which seems to be deliberate – and of “Moriah” for “Marwah,” a hillock that lies in the vicinity of Mecca (near where Abraham left Ishmael with his mother Hagar while yet a child), there is nothing in the Bible to lend the slightest support to the view that Abraham offered Isaac for sacrifice, and not Ishmael.

But whereas no trace is to be found in the religious ceremonies of Christians and Jews of the supposed sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham, Muslims, who are the spiritual descendants of Ishmael, commemorate with great fervor his intended sacrifice by slaughtering rams and goats every year on the 10th day of Dhu’l-Hijjah, the 12th month of the Islamic year. This universal sacrifice of rams and goats by Muslims establishes – beyond dispute or doubt – the fact that it was Ishmael whom Abraham offered for sacrifice, and not Isaac...

In reality though, Abraham was not required to fulfill his vision in actual fact. It was only a practical demonstration of his intention and preparedness to sacrifice his son, which was desired of him. The vision had been fulfilled symbolically in Hagar and Ishmael having been left by Abraham in the valley of Mecca, which at that time was an arid and barren wasteland. That brave act had, in fact, symbolized the sacrifice of Ishmael...

The command to Abraham first to sacrifice his son and then to abstain from carrying it into actual fact showed also that it was intended to abolish human sacrifice, a most inhumane practice which was prevalent at that time in most countries...

Abraham lived to see the gradual accomplishment of the promise that his descendants would become a mighty nation in the birth of his grandsons Esau and Jacob, and witnessed their growth to manhood (Gen. 25:26). At the goodly age of 175 he was “gathered to his people,” and was laid beside Sarah in the "Cave of Machpelah" in Al-Khalil (the Biblical Hebron), Palestine, by his sons Ishmael and Isaac (Gen. 25:7-10).

Perhaps I miss the actual thrust of the above discourse. It is never easy to reconcile the Biblical with the historical. God did not intend the Scriptures for that purpose. Scriptures support the believer. Belief, faith, a call from the Holy Spirit to know God's will and purpose are the driving factors, I think.
Though I am not an expert on such matters, I do try to read for understanding first. And I certainly am not expert enough to offer criticism.
God called Abram out of Chaldea, promising to lead him to a new land and make him the father of nations - descendants more numerous than the stars in the sky. All Abram needed to do would be to follow and worship God. Abram struck out on this faith.
I think the human failings that followed are recorded to show us today how far we fall from deserving God's grace. We are all sinners by nature. First Abram failed to fully believe in God's promise, trying to enhance or help God out along the way. He even denied his wife, calling her his sister out of fear and lack of faith in God. Hagar's child, Ishmael, was equally blessed by God as she was sent from Abram's camp, due to increasing trouble-making between her and Sara. God was establishing the blood line to Jesus - the Messiah promised earlier in Genesis. It was God's plan - to show his omnipotence - that very old people who were biologically not expected to give birth, would indeed witness His power over nature. The wordly solution, suggested by Sara, that Abram sire a child through Hagar was not an ordained action, but the kind of morass we find ourselves in when we "take things into our own hands"
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) are know as the patriarchs. The twelve tribes of Israel sprang from Jacob. Some even suggest that all Jews are Israelites, but all Israelites are not Jews. I don't understand the full meaning, but this concept seems to suggest that true Jews are from the tribe of Judah - the line of David, as prophesied, that eventually led to the birth of Jesus.
It is further suggested that the descendants of Ishmael would be at war with Isaac's descendants throughout time...much the same as Esau's progeny would torment Jacob's line.
God can do whatever He likes. It is our task to humbly seek understanding and His grace and forgiveness.

Perhaps I miss the actual thrust of the above discourse. One of the actual thrusts of my discourse is the fact that Abraham was not a Jew – as most Christians generally suppose – and furthermore, the fact that Jewish people did not exist during his time...

...He even denied his wife, calling her his sister out of fear and lack of faith in God...According to the Bible, Sarah, his Chaldean wife was also his half-sister (Gen. 20:11-12)...

sorry for the delay but this piece seems so familiar to me. You are quite correct. Abraham was not a Jew because such title was used to describe the Tribe fo Judah who was a descendant of Abraham. Those who misunderstand that simply comply with church history beliefs.

Because he is the father of many beliefs, it is quite easy for each faith to claim him solely as their own, but this is wrong.

Some clarity,

Abraham
According to Jewish tradition, Abraham was born under the name Abram in the city of Ur in Babylonia in the year 1948 from Creation (circa 1800 BCE). He was the son of Terach, an idol merchant, but from his early childhood, he questioned the faith of his father and sought the truth. He came to believe that the entire universe was the work of a single Creator, and he began to teach this belief to others.

Abram tried to convince his father, Terach, of the folly of idol worship. One day, when Abram was left alone to mind the store, he took a hammer and smashed all of the idols except the largest one. He placed the hammer in the hand of the largest idol. When his father returned and asked what happened, Abram said, "The idols got into a fight, and the big one smashed all the other ones." His father said, "Don't be ridiculous. These idols have no life or power. They can't do anything." Abram replied, "Then why do you worship them?"

Eventually, the one true Creator that Abram had worshipped called to him, and made him an offer: if Abram would leave his home and his family, then God would make him a great nation and bless him. Abram accepted this offer, and the b'rit (covenant) between God and the Jewish people was established. (Gen. 12).

The idea of b'rit is fundamental to traditional Judaism: we have a covenant, a contract, with God, which involves rights and obligations on both sides. We have certain obligations to God, and God has certain obligations to us. The terms of this b'rit became more explicit over time, until the time of the Giving of the Torah (see below). Abram was subjected to ten tests of faith to prove his worthiness for this covenant. Leaving his home is one of these trials.

Abram, raised as a city-dweller, adopted a nomadic lifestyle, traveling through what is now the land of Israel for many years. God promised this land to Abram's descendants. Abram is referred to as a Hebrew (Ivri), possibly because he was descended from Eber or possibly because he came from the "other side" (eber) of the Euphrates River.

But Abram was concerned, because he had no children and he was growing old. Abram's beloved wife, Sarai, knew that she was past child-bearing years, so she offered her maidservant, Hagar, as a wife to Abram. This was a common practice in the region at the time. According to tradition, Hagar was a daughter of Pharaoh, given to Abram during his travels in Egypt. She bore Abram a son, Ishmael, who, according to both Muslim and Jewish tradition, is the ancestor of the Arabs. (Gen 16)

When Abram was 100 and Sarai 90, God promised Abram a son by Sarai. God changed Abram's name to Abraham (father of many), and Sarai's to Sarah (from "my princess" to "princess"). Sarah bore Abraham a son, Isaac (in Hebrew, Yitzchak), a name derived from the word "laughter," expressing Abraham's joy at having a son in his old age. (Gen 17-18). Isaac was the ancestor of the Jewish people. Thus, the conflict between Arabs and Jews can be seen as a form of sibling rivalry!


Nice information. I remember addressing this in another forum. I may look the info up and post it here...

Thank you, dnommo...

Aqil,

A Jew is a person who has made a covenant with God, or is the descendant of a person who has made a covenant with God.

That would make Abraham a Jew. It would also make me a Jew.

Two things from the Bible for you to think about. I can scripture this up for you later if you wish.

1. In the old testament, NO MATTER what RELIGION the JEW had, God said that He was going to punish them.

In otherwords if a Jew in the old testament RAN AWAY and began worshipping a different "god". It did not MATTER TO GOD.

God STILL held them responsible for the covenant, that he had made with their anscestors.

This is actually a kindness on the part of God. He does it so that when He promised me my children would be saved, then I do not have to worry, my children will not be allowed to stray.

2. Jesus says in the New Testament, that he knows those who CALL themselves JEWS but are NOT JEWS...........

In otherwords, Jesus considered those who could be physically Jewish to NOT be JEWISH, if they were out of the covenant with God.

Similiarily, Jesus says that He would cause those to see that He has loved US. In otherwords the Jews would see that the true Jew is one in heart not in the flesh.

Paul teaches about this also.

Christians are in fact the "Israel of God". We are in fact the "Jews".

The word Jews means no more and no less than the word Islam.

We are simply followers of God.

Abraham was a Jew.

Here is my thread again, Ms. CrunchyStuff, for your clarification and edification. It refutes all of the above nebulous gibberish, which is replete with lies and supercilious cacophony:

THE PROPHET ABRAHAM WAS NOT A JEW

Abraham the Patriarch, the father of all Semitic people, was a Chaldean by birth, emanating from the city of Ur in Chaldea (an ancient Asian country on the western shores of the Persian Gulf) – according to the Biblical record – in the year 1917 BC.

He was a descendant of Eber, the great-grandson of Shem, who was the eldest son of Noah. His father was Terah, who was also Chaldean [Genesis 11:28]. It stands to reason, therefore, that Abraham was not a Jew – as is generally supposed – and furthermore, Jewish people did not exist during his time...

His sons Ishmael and Isaac were not Jews, neither were his grandsons Esau and Jacob, and neither were the sons of Jacob – Abraham’s great-grandsons – Reuben, Shimeon and Levi.

The fourth son of Jacob, born in the year 1753 BC. was named Judah, and his descendants were called “Jews,” an abbreviated and corrupt form of the Hebrew “Yahudim.”

When Abraham (the name translates “father of a multitude”) and his followers left the city of Ur in Chaldea and crossed the Euphrates River on their way to Canaan (Genesis 12:5), he and his people were called "Eberus," in order to distinguish them from the people who stayed behind. The word “Eber” translates “the region beyond” in the Hebrew language, and the names “Eberu” and “Eberus” were used by Abraham and the descendants of Eber, Noah’s great, great-grandson...

Through incorrect transliteration by some of the Biblical translators, Abraham The Eberu became Abraham The “Hebrew” (Genesis 14:13), a name by which some Jews are called even today. But Hebrew is the [/b]language[/b] of the Jewish people. There is no such thing as a Hebrew race or Hebrew people...

Abraham begot Ishmael, his first-born son, by Hagar, an African woman who was also the daughter of an Egyptian-Ethiopian Pharaoh. He begot Isaac, his second son, by Sarah, his Chaldean wife who was also his half-sister (Genesis 20:11-12). Ishmael is regarded as the father of all Arabs, whereas Isaac is regarded as the father of all Jews...

Ishmael’s first-born son was named Kedar, which translates “black-skinned.” The Bible and the Qur’an are at variance as to which of Abraham’s sons was offered for sacrifice. According to the Bible it was Isaac (Genesis 22:2). The Qur’an, on the other hand, declares clearly and unequivocally that it was Ishmael (Sura 37:103).

The Bible contradicts itself in this respect. According to it, Abraham was commanded to offer his “only son” for sacrifice, but Isaac was at no time his only son. Ishmael was senior to Isaac by 13 years, and was for these many years Abraham’s only son, and, being also his firstborn, was extremely dear to him. It stands to reason, therefore, that Abraham must have been required by God to offer for sacrifice his nearest and dearest possession, which, at that time, was his first-born son, Ishmael...

Some Christian evangelists have vainly tried to show that “Ishmael, being of the handmaiden, was born after the flesh, while Isaac, being born of the free woman, was by promise” (Galatians 4:22-23). Apart from the fact that Hagar, Ishmael’s mother, belonged to the royal family of Egypt and was no handmaid, Ishmael has repeatedly been mentioned in the Bible as Abraham’s son (Genesis 16:16, 17:23 & 25), exactly as Isaac. Moreover, analogous promises were made to Abraham in regard to the future greatness of Ishmael as were made to him about Isaac (Genesis 16:10 and 17:20).

Apart from the substitution in the Bible of Isaac for Ishmael – which seems to be deliberate – and of “Moriah” for “Marwah,” a hillock that lies in the vicinity of Mecca (near where Abraham left Ishmael with his mother Hagar while yet a child), there is nothing in the Bible to lend the slightest support to the view that Abraham offered Isaac for sacrifice, and not Ishmael.

But whereas no trace is to be found in the religious ceremonies of Christians and Jews of the supposed sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham, Muslims, who are the spiritual descendants of Ishmael, commemorate with great fervor his intended sacrifice by slaughtering rams and goats every year on the 10th day of Dhu’l-Hijjah, the 12th month of the Islamic year. This universal sacrifice of rams and goats by Muslims establishes – beyond dispute or doubt – the fact that it was Ishmael whom Abraham offered for sacrifice, and not Isaac...

In reality though, Abraham was not required to fulfill his vision in actual fact. It was only a practical demonstration of his intention and preparedness to sacrifice his son, which was desired of him. The vision had been fulfilled symbolically in Hagar and Ishmael having been left by Abraham in the valley of Mecca, which at that time was an arid and barren wasteland. That brave act had, in fact, symbolized the sacrifice of Ishmael...

The command to Abraham first to sacrifice his son and then to abstain from carrying it into actual fact showed also that it was intended to abolish human sacrifice, a most inhumane practice which was prevalent at that time in most countries...

Abraham lived to see the gradual accomplishment of the promise that his descendants would become a mighty nation in the birth of his grandsons Esau and Jacob, and witnessed their growth to manhood (Genesis 25:26). At the goodly age of 175 he was “gathered to his people,” and was laid beside Sarah in the "Cave of Machpelah" in Al-Khalil (the Biblical Hebron), Palestine, by his sons Ishmael and Isaac (Genesis 25:7-10).

Aqil,

Being a Jew has nothing to do with geographical location or race.

Abraham was a Jew.

He made a covenant with God, and that is what makes him a Jew.

"Aqil,

Being a Jew has nothing to do with geographical location or race. Abraham was a Jew. He made a covenant with God, and that is what makes him a Jew."I've never heard anything as stupid as this...are you a Jew, Ms. CrunchyStuff?

Aqil,

So you do not believe what you yourself have posted?

You posted that a Jew is not of a certain race.
You also posted that a Jew is a citizen of the country he lives in.

From your own writings that would mean that geographical location nor race has anything to do with whether one is a Jew.

Your big long post above about where Abraham and where he came from, doesn't match up with your belief that a Jew is a citizen of which ever country he is in.

"Aqil, so you do not believe what you yourself have posted?"I believe everything that I post, Ms. CrunchyStuff...

You posted that a Jew is not of a certain race.Didn't say it quite like that, Ms. CrunchyStuff...I said that Jews are not a race...period.

You also posted that a Jew is a citizen of the country he lives in." From a quote by the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, Ms. CrunchyStuff...either in this thread or the one titled, "Understanding The Palestinian/Israeli Conflict." Make sure and check both threads...

From your own writings that would mean that geographical location nor race has anything to do with whether one is a Jew."You have proffered another falsehood, Ms. CrunchyStuff...Jews are dispersed all over the world because that never had a homeland...and they are not a race because they are a hybrid people...

Your big, long post above about where Abraham and where he came from doesn't match up with your belief that a Jew is a citizen of whichever country he is in."It matches up quite well, Ms. CrunchyStuff...because Abraham was not a Jew...and Arafat's quote is a result of the Jewish diaspora...

who cares if you're a jew or not, as long as you believe in God.

“For the Jew God is separate from humanity; He does not live in His creatures. He is infinite egoism.”

(Eliphas Levi)

This thought is also rooted in Judaism (the religion of the Jews), and is the reason why the Jew thinks that he can do anything he wants to do in this world with impunity. He is “God’s chosen,” so he says, and is therefore better than everyone else. This is pure racism, and it finds its roots in Judaism and Zionist ideology...

And of course you know that Jews do not believe in Jesus...:eek:

Bro. HBY:

Ishmael - Abraham's son by Hagar - is mentioned in the Bible as Abraham’s son (Genesis 16:16, 17:23 & 25), exactly as Isaac (Abraham's son by Sarah). Moreover, analogous promises were made to Abraham in regard to the future greatness of Ishmael as were made to him about Isaac (Genesis 16:10 and 17:20). Abraham took to wife Keturah after his first wife Sarah's death...

Aqil,

so who do you believe the covenant was too? Isaac or Ishmael?

Genesis 15:18 reads as follows:

"On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying:

'To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river Euphrates..'"

The key word is this verse is "descendants." The covenant with Abraham is the first of the theocratic covenants (i.e., pertaining to the rule of God). It is unconditional, depending solely upon God who obligates Himself in grace, indicated by the unconditional declaration, "I will," to bring to pass the promised blessings.

The Abrahamic Covenant is the basis of all the other theocratic covenants, and provides for blessings in three areas: (1) national - "I will make you a great nation," (2) personal - "I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing," and (3) universal - "in you all families of the Earth shall be blessed."

This covenant was first given in broad outline and was later confirmed to Abraham in greater detail (Gen. 13:14-17; 15:1-7, 18-21; 17:1-8). The Abrahamic Covenant constitutes an important link in all that God began to do, has done throughout history, and will continue to do until the consummation of history. It is the one purpose of God for humans into which all of God's programs fit...

The personal aspects of the Abrahamic Covenant are fourfold: (1) to be the father of a great nation, (2) to receive personal blessing, (3) to receive personal honor and reputation, and (4) to be the source of blessing to others. The universal aspects of the covenant are threefold: (1) blessing those people and nations that bless Abraham, and the nation that comes from him; (2) cursing: those people and nations that curse Abraham and Israel; and (3) blessings upon all the families of the Earth through the Messiah, who, according to the flesh, is Abraham's son and provides salvation for the entire world...

Originally posted by Sun Ship:
One etymological book derived the word "Africa" from the root – ibir, which means to cross over or go through.Peace Brother Sun Ship. In reference to the word "ibir" in the Pan-Africanism forum:

When Abraham and his followers left the city of Ur in Chaldea and crossed the Euphrates River on their way to Canaan (Gen. 12:5), he and his people were called "Eberus," in order to distinguish them from the people who stayed behind. The word “Eber” translates “the region beyond” in the Hebrew language, and the names “Eberu” and “Eberus” were used by Abraham and the descendants of Eber, Noah’s great, great-grandson.

(The words "eber" and "ibir" are prononced the same...)

"Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him. For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which He hath spoken of him..."

(Genesis 18:18,19)

Some wierd comments on here.

A JEW is someone who practices JUDAISM.

A person of any faith can make a convanent with GOD. For someone to think that only JEWS make this committment to GOD, are full of crap.

Some wierd comments on here.Including yours, btw...

A JEW is someone who practices JUDAISM..Read the following for further edification and clarification:

The question causing much consternation in Jewish communities throughout the world is: Who is a Jew? According to Jewish rabbinical law, if the mother is Jewish, then her offspring are considered Jewish, irrespective of the race or nationality of the father. But if the father is Jewish and the mother is not, the offspring are not considered Jewish...

Much of the American Jewish community is at odds with the Israelis (i.e., Jews born in Israel) over this question. But I submit to you that there is a far greater question, one that – when researched – will surprise many people. That question is: WHAT is a Jew?

Within the composition of the human race are five distinct classifications, namely: (1) the black race (Africans, African-Americans, and people the world over of African descent), (2) the brown race (Arabs, Asian Indians, Iranians, Pakistanis, and most Hispanics, i.e., Spaniards, Portuguese, Chicanos and Latinos), (3) the red race (North and South American Indians, Eskimos), (4) the yellow race (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese), and (5) the white race, or Caucasoids - people of European descent...

Then there are the Jews, who are a mixture of ALL the races, and therefore a hybrid people that cannot be classified as a race...

This is the reason why the actual origin of the Jews is unknown, even to this day. The noted 19th-century theosophist Helena P. Blavatsky, in her famous book, Isis Unveiled, states the following:

“To the present moment, in spite of all controversies and researches, history and science remains as much as ever in the dark as to the origin of the Jews. They may be as well the exiled Tchandalas of old India...or the ‘bricklayers’ mentioned by Manu as the Phoenicians of Herodotus...or the Hyksos of Josephus...or the descendants of the Pali shepherds... or a mixture of all of these. The Bible names the Tyrians as a kindred people and claims dominion over them. Yet whatever they may have been, they became a hybrid people not long after Moses, as the Bible shows them freely intermarrying not only with the Canaanites, but with every other nation or race they came in contact with.” (H.P. Blavatsky, Isis Unveiled, vol. II, pp. 438-439)

Mme. Blavatsky’s statement further corroborates the little-known fact that the Jews are not a race, but a people. As Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat once said when asked what is a Jew: “A Jew is a citizen of the country he lives in.”

Because the Jew is hybrid, an interesting analogy can be made using two members of the canine family as examples: the mongrel and the pedigree. The Jew can be likened to the mongrel, i.e., we know the mongrel has parents, but who were they and where are they? This is not so with the pedigree, for there exists certified registered papers showing whom each canine was sired by...

The word “Jew” and the people called “Jews” came into existence circa 1700 BC, and although most Christians and Jews will find this shocking, the fact is, the Biblical patriarch Abraham was not a Jew. He was Chaldean by birth, emanating from the city of Ur in Chaldea, according to the Biblical record, in the year 1917 B.C. His son Isaac and his grandson Jacob were not Jews, neither were the sons of Jacob (Reuben, Shimeon and Levi). The fourth son of Jacob was Judah, born in the year 1753 BC, and his descendants were called “Jews,” an abbreviated and corrupt form of the Hebrew “Yahudim.”

Hebrew is the language of the Jewish people. There is no such thing as a Hebrew race or Hebrew people. The word itself is derived from the name “Eber,” the great-grandson of Shem, who was the son of Noah. When Abraham and his followers left the city of Ur in Chaldea and crossed the Euphrates River on their way to the land of Canaan (Gen. 12:5), he and his people were called “Eberus,” in order to distinguish them from the Chaldeans and Israelites who stayed in Babylon...

The word “Eber” translates “the region beyond,” and Abraham and the descendants of Eber, Noah’s great-great grandson, used the names “Ebers” and “Eberus.” Through incorrect transliteration by some Biblical translators, Abraham the Eberu became Abraham the "Hebrew" (Gen. 14:13), a name by which some Jews are even called today. But to reiterate, Hebrew is the language of the Jewish people...

So, in essence, the Jews are the first of the mixed people, whose original ancestors were the descendants of Judah, the fourth son of Jacob, whose descendants presently illegally occupy the homeland of the Palestinian people, which is the Arab country of Palestine...

I thought Abraham became Egyptian when he added Ham to his first name. Ham/Egypt went hand and hand see psalm 105-23-27.

I guess Abraham considered himself universal when he attached Ham to his name.Ham is related to the Pyramid/eye/sunrise. The Egyptians considered the pyramids to be a reflection of the universe.

Again,

Jews are the not the only ones who "GOD" cares about. In actuality, the So called JEW of today is a fraud.

Read, 13th Tribe - Arthur Kossler

AB-RA-HIM or AB-RA-HAM is not a Jew. Actually, did he even exist too?

Again,

Jews are the not the only ones who "GOD" cares about. In actuality, the so-called JEW of today is a fraud.

Read, 13th Tribe - Arthur Kossler

AB-RA-HIM or AB-RA-HAM is not a Jew. Actually, did he even exist too?According to the Bible, the Holy Qur'an and the Torah he did. The word “Jew” and the people called “Jews” came into existence circa 1700 BC, and although most Christians and Jews will find this shocking, the fact is, the Biblical patriarch Abraham was not a Jew. He was Chaldean by birth, emanating from the city of Ur in Chaldea, according to the Biblical record, in the year 1917 BC. His son Isaac and his grandson Jacob were not Jews, neither were the sons of Jacob (Reuben, Shimeon and Levi). The fourth son of Jacob was Judah, born in the year 1753 BC, and his descendants were called “Jews,” an abbreviated and corrupt form of the Hebrew “Yahudim.”

Abraham was not a Chaldean. It is true he was born in Ur of the Chaldees, but his true bloodline was Egyptian...What you have stated here is not in the Bible. How could this be when he and his father Terah were born in Chaldea? What is the source of your information?

Abraham is called Prophet Ibrahim (saw) in Islam, and is very important to our religion, both in his own right and as the father of Ishmael, his firstborn son...

Abraham is called Prophet Ibrahim (saw) in Islam, and is very important to our religion, both in his own right and as the father of Ishmael, his firstborn son...

So his being the father of Ishmael (the patriarch of Arabs) is important to you...a Black man? See how your own pitiful alienism—which entrenches itself and obscures your reality—and vain attempts to share in the historical/cultural traditions of those who look nothing like you, keeps you a servant of them who would rather see you die, than call you their "brother".

peace,

Abraham according to your scriptures was neither Muslim, Christian or Jew he was an "upright man"....In the Holy Qu'ran it speaks of Ibrahim existing because the story is copied from the biblical text....as that of musa and others!

But u would be hard pressed to prove that he actually EXISTED....

peace

So his being the father of Ishmael (the patriarch of Arabs) is important to you...a Black man? See how your own pitiful alienism—which entrenches itself and obscures your reality—and vain attempts to share in the historical/cultural traditions of those who look nothing like you, keeps you a servant of them who would rather see you die, than call you their "brother".You're preaching to the choir, my brother. Ishmael was the son of an African woman...his firstborn son was named "Kedar," which means "black-skinned" in the Hebrew language...

You're preaching to the choir, my brother. Ishmael was the son of an African woman...his firstborn son was Kedar, which means "black-skinned" in the Hebrew language...

So what?! What has this got to do with you? Are you an Arab? No wait...on second thoughts...don't answer that.

I am a Black man born in America of African descent, who happens to believe in and adhere to the tenets of the religion of Al-Islam. Thusly I am an African-American Muslim...

Do you care to describe yourself?

I am a Black man born in America of African descent, who happens to believe in and adhere to the tenets of the religion of Al-Islam. Thusly I am an African-American Muslim

So as an "African-American" Muslim what does Arabham's being the son of Ishmael got to do with you? Why should you care? Do you as a "Black man born in America of African descent" benefit from this information? No...you don't. So what the hell?!!

How do you know what I don't benefit from? And what are you? Do you have a religious affiliation? If so, what is it?

who cares if you're a jew or not, as long as you believe in God.
AMEN AMEN AMENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!

Roses are red,
Violets are Blueish.
If it weren't for Jesus,
We'd ALL be Jewish.

]Isn't it great when everyone can believe what they want to?? I really think it's wonderful !!! The problem is that before you can BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO, YOU HAVE TO BE PRESENTED WITH ALL SIDES OF THE STORY WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO MAKE A FREE CHOICE DECISION.

But for some strange reason, we keep getting the WHITE SIDE, THE SO CALLED JEW SIDE AND THE ARAB SIDE...NOW WHY IS THAT??!! I'M CONFUSED, WHY IS THAT??!! IS IT A COINCIDENCE?...Maybe God never said nothing to Black/African people...could that be it?

We done read what the so called Jew and his Prophets said, what his brother the Arab and his Prophets done said...and some how the clear people(white folks) done threw a few of theirs in there too, fake or real.

The people of India and China and Japan have their books and prophets...and right now it's becoming real plain that although our people been here longer than anyone and is responsible for everybody else being here, that somehow God just skipped us, huh?

So if I ask the average Black person who were our ancient Prophets, I wonder how many can tell me their names and the books they wrote? I already know the answer to that, so let me make it plain. The reason the majority of us don't know is because Cracker Abraham's (providing he existed, and there's plenty of info to support that he didn't) people, the Hook nose Arabs , and the regular scraggly crackers are partners in our demise, our indoctrination, our brainwashing and mind you..."OUR PEOPLE WERE SLAVES TO ALL THE PEOPLE I JUST NAMED !!"

WHAT A COINCIDENCE !!! So it only stands to reason and understand why we in our ignorance (state of not knowing) would carry their names as our own, speak their languages and worship their religions the way they dictate. I mean this is what a conquered people do.

So the idea that someone here would uphold the INVADING CONQUERER THEY CALL ABRAHAM ISN'T ANYTHING NEW OR OUT OF THE ORDINARY. THIS IS WHAT A GOOD SLAVE DOES. "MASTER WE SICK...MASTER OUR HOUSE ON FIRE...WHAT WE GONE DO NOW MASTER" Yeah it's enough to make you want to vomit. But everybody has their game, and this one was Aqil's.

I play chess too, quite well. So for now I'm going to allow you and anyone else to expouse all the myth you want to...cause you already know I'm coming and I'm going to be hungry.[/COLOR] :hulk:

]Isn't it great when everyone can believe what they want to?? I really think it's wonderful !!! The problem is that before you can BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO, YOU HAVE TO BE PRESENTED WITH ALL SIDES OF THE STORY WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO MAKE A FREE CHOICE DECISION.

But for some strange reason, we keep getting the WHITE SIDE, THE SO CALLED JEW SIDE AND THE ARAB SIDE...NOW WHY IS THAT??!! I'M CONFUSED, WHY IS THAT??!! IS IT A COINCIDENCE?...Maybe God never said nothing to Black/African people...could that be it?

We done read what the so called Jew and his Prophets said, what his brother the Arab and his Prophets done said...and some how the clear people(white folks) done threw a few of theirs in there too, fake or real.

The people of India and China and Japan have their books and prophets...and right now it's becoming real plain that although our people been here longer than anyone and is responsible for everybody else being here, that somehow God just skipped us, huh?

So if I ask the average Black person who were our ancient Prophets, I wonder how many can tell me their names and the books they wrote? I already know the answer to that, so let me make it plain. The reason the majority of us don't know is because Cracker Abraham's (providing he existed, and there's plenty of info to support that he didn't) people, the Hook nose Arabs , and the regular scraggly crackers are partners in our demise, our indoctrination, our brainwashing and mind you..."OUR PEOPLE WERE SLAVES TO ALL THE PEOPLE I JUST NAMED !!"

WHAT A COINCIDENCE !!! So it only stands to reason and understand why we in our ignorance (state of not knowing) would carry their names as our own, speak their languages and worship their religions the way they dictate. I mean this is what a conquered people do.

So the idea that someone here would uphold the INVADING CONQUERER THEY CALL ABRAHAM ISN'T ANYTHING NEW OR OUT OF THE ORDINARY. THIS IS WHAT A GOOD SLAVE DOES. "MASTER WE SICK...MASTER OUR HOUSE ON FIRE...WHAT WE GONE DO NOW MASTER" Yeah it's enough to make you want to vomit. But everybody has their game, and this one was Aqil's.

I play chess too, quite well. So for now I'm going to allow you and anyone else to expouse all the myth you want to...cause you already know I'm coming and I'm going to be hungry.[/COLOR] :hulk:


Ashe brotha,

Amen Ra to that!

peace,

Mizlinda have we forgotten that Jesus WAS JEWISH...........hmmmmmm.

there is a saying that goes "it is better to remain silent and to be perceived as intelligent, then to speak and remove all doubt".............shhhhhhhhhhhhh!

:zipit:

peace to the gods.........

I dont see where he was Jewish, could you give two or more witnesses to that?
And dude,I ve already been insulted by the best of em, nice try though.

peace,

Mizlinda have we forgotten that Jesus WAS JEWISH...........hmmmmmm.

there is a saying that goes "it is better to remain silent and to be perceived as intelligent, then to speak and remove all doubt".............shhhhhhhhhhhhh!

:zipit:

peace to the gods.........Mr info-moe have we forgotten that Jesus remained quite on the cross so that I wouldnt have to? Of course you have.Whats that again about intelligence?

peace,

I'm sure you meant quiet and not "quite"...........so let's move on....

"I dont see where he was Jewish, could you give two or more witnesses to that?"......surely you're not serious here??? you don't see where jesus was a jew.

who else would be sent to the lost tribe of Israel?
Moses was a jew & jesus said "I come not to destroy the law of moses, but to fulfill it.......
In Hebrews 7:14, the Apostle Paul said "It is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah."
John called Him the "Lion of the tribe of Judah" (Rev. 5:5). Long before his birth
Moses said in Gen. 49:10 that Shiloh-the Messiah and Prince of Peace-would arise from Judah.

.........& many more including the laws regarding who can view the naked body as in the 2 mary's coming to the cave to prepare his body for burial......one being his mother Mary and the other his WIFE mary magdelene......

as I said b4 we must study first b4 we enter into these types of debates that can lead so many viewers toward the wrong path..........

I was not being disrespectful just quoting a saying that crossed my mind when I read your reply!!!
peace

Did I fail to say that HISTORICALLY THERE'S AMPLE EVIDENCE THAT THERE WAS NO ABRAHAM? Did I also fail to say that the story of him and his two sons is nothing but an allegory...(which means, NOT REAL) and that the Bible backs this up? Did I fail to say, for those who insist that he was real, that not only was he white, but he was an incredible liar according to the scriptures.

He lied about his wife when he came into Kemet, then he lied about her again when he went to live in Canaan...and just like foreigners in our community today, it was okay for him to live amongst our people, but he made sure none of his children mixed or married any of them.

"Cheikh Anta Diop reminded us that, according to the Bible, Abraham was circumcised when he was already ninety years old; and that was after he married a Black woman, Hagar, the mother of Ishmael, the Biblical ancestor of the second Semitic branch, the Arabs."

(Femi Akomolafe, "A Review of Cheikh Anta Diop, The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality?")

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/30/009.html

"And We verily gave Abraham of old his proper course, and We were Aware of him." (Surah 21:51)

Narrated Abu Huraira:

"Abraham did not tell a lie except on three occasions. Twice for the Sake of Allah when he said, 'I am sick,' and he said, 'I have not done this but the big idol has done it.' The third was that while Abraham and Sarah his wife were going on a journey they passed by the territory of a tyrant. Someone said to the tyrant, 'This man is accompanied by a very charming lady. So he sent for Abraham and asked him about Sarah saying, 'Who is this lady?' Abraham said, 'She is my sister.'

Abraham went to Sarah and said, 'O Sarah! There are no believers on the surface of the Earth except you and I. This man asked me about you and I have told him that you are my sister, so don't contradict my statement.' The tyrant then called Sarah and when she went to him, he tried to take hold of her with his hand, but his hand got stiff and he was confounded. He asked Sarah, 'Pray to Allah for me, and I shall not harm you.' So Sarah asked Allah to cure him and he got cured. He tried to take hold of her for the second time, but his hand got as stiff as or stiffer than before and he was more confounded. He again requested Sarah, 'Pray to Allah for me, and I will not harm you.' Sarah asked Allah again and he became alright. He then called one of his guards who had brought her and said, 'You have not brought me a human being but have brought me a devil.'

The tyrant then gave Hagar as a girl-servant to Sarah. Sarah came back to Abraham while he was praying. Abraham, gesturing with his hand, asked, 'What has happened?' She replied, 'Allah has spoiled the evil plot of the infidel and gave me Hagar for service.'

Abu Huraira then addressed his listeners, saying that 'Hagar was your mother, O Bani Ma-is-Sama'" (i.e., the Arabs, the descendants of Ishmael, Hagar's son).

(Sahih Bukhari 4.578, also Sahih Bukhari 4.577 and Sahih Bukhari 7.21)

PEACE,

- if we are going to speak of Ibrahim in regards to Qu'ran & Holy By-Bill, then one can conclude that he was not Muslim, Christian or Jew but an upright man!

- if we are gong to prove that Ibrahim even existed, then show me his picture!

peace

What a crock of baloney !!! He only lied three times in his life??!! Like who would know that to be true? There was no Allah at that time, so surely Allah didn't know...and if we say there was an Allah, then historically we know he was the moon god. So are you saying that the moon god remembered that Abraham only lied 3 times in his life? Get jiggy wit it ! :-)

From:

http://www.islamtoday.com/fat_archives/show_detail.cfm?q_id=819&main_cat_id=18

Question: There is a hadîth in Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim that talks of the Day of Judgment and that Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) will claim that he lied thrice. Doesn't it go against our beliefs that a Prophet would lie? Please explain.

It is related from Anas ibn Mâlik that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, regarding the Day of Resurrection:

They will approach Abraham (to intercede for them) but he will say: “I am not for it.”

He will mention three lies that he spoke and then say: “Instead, go to Moses…” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (7440) and Sahîh Muslim (193)]

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) explains to us the nature of these lies, saying:

Abraham never lied at all, except for the three lies, two of which were for the sake of Allah: his saying: “I am sick” and his saying: “Nay! It was done by this largest one of them”.

That was that, and then there was one regarding Sarah. He had come, accompanied by Sarah, to a land ruled by a tyrant. She had been the comeliest of people, so he said to her: “This man is indeed a tyrant. If he comes to know that you are my wife, he will he will take you away from me by force. So, if he asks you, tell him that you are my sister, for indeed you are my sister in Islam, and indeed I know of no other Muslims on Earth except for you and me.” [Sahîh Muslim (2371)]

These “lies” were, in fact, not lies at all. They were merely allusions and ambiguous statements.

When he said to his idolatrous people: “I am sick” [Sûrah al-Sâffât: 87], he intended to insult their idols, of which he was sickened, and to support Allah’s religion. He wanted to show them the falsehood of their idolatry.

When Abraham (peace be upon him) destroyed the idols of his people, he left the largest idol standing. When his people confronted him and accused him, he said: “Nay! It was done by this largest one of them.” [Sûrah al-Anbiyâ’: 63] By this, he intended to show them clearly that their idols could not actually talk or act or help themselves in any way, and that they were the same as any other pile of rocks. He was forcing them, in this way, to admit that their idols were helpless.

As for his saying to his wife: “Tell him that you are my sister”, we have already seen how he was referring to her being his sister in faith.

And Allah knows best.

(Answered by the Fatwa Department Research Committee, chaired by Sheikh Abdul al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî.)

Are we really going to have to deal with "THE WORDS OF MEN" (HADITHS) AS YOUR SUPPORT SYSTEM AS TO IF ABRAHAM LID MORE THAN THREE TIMES IN HIS LIFE?? (MAN IS YOU JOKING OR SMOKING?) This reminds me of Europeans debating about "HOW MANY ANGELS COULD FIT ON THE HEAD OF A PIN".

You can't back up that claim...niether can Allah since he was only a minor moon God, oh my bad !! There was no Allah back then cause there wasn't an Arab no where on the face of the earth !!! Well well well !! With this being the case, "HOW WOULD AN ARAB KNOW WHAT ABRAHAM DID OR DID NOT DO SINCE "PHYSICALLY AN ARAB DID NOT EXIST...AND RELIGIOUSLY THERE WAS NO SUCH ENTITY CALLD ALLAH !"

I WANT TO SEE YOU EXPLAIN THIS ONE TO ME AND WHERE THIS SO CALLED INFORMATION OR VERIFICATION CONCERNING ABRAHAM CAME FROM ? THIS IS GONNA BE A GOOD ONE !

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

"Abraham (אַבְרָהָם "Father/Leader of many", Standard Hebrew "Avraham," Arabic ابراهيم, "Ibrāhīm") is the patriarch of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. His story is told in the Book of Genesis.

Islam also regards him as the ancestor of the Bedouins, through Ishmael. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are sometimes referred to as the "Abrahamic religions" in reference to their supposed common descent from Abraham.

There is no known account of his life independent of Genesis, so it is not possible to know if he was a historical figure. If he was, he probably lived between 2000 BC and 1500 BC.

His original name was "Abram" (אַבְרָם "High/Exalted father/leader", Standard Hebrew "Avram"; he was the foremost of the Biblical patriarchs. Later in life he went by the name "Abraham." (See Genesis 17)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham

peace,

so what I'm gettin' out of all of this is that U REALLY DON'T KNOW BROTHA AQIL!!!!

i asked u to show me Ibrahim's picture.......

Hadith's are nothing more than Qu'ranic gospels to me & many others..........to make it plain!!!!!

so to expound on your point, some may need much more than what hs been provided thus far...........

peace

Okay most knowledgable one..tee..hee..hee..since "I" with emphasis on the word "I", know there was no historical figure named Abraham, that sort of throws a monkey wrench into a lot of stuff, doesn't it? So lets deal with the name and where he came from.

Chaldea I think it was? Do you know what their name for the sun was at the so called time era of Abraham? Do you know what their name for the moon was? You are right...Avram/Abram=Father most High (the sun) Sarai was the name for the moon. And coincidentally, the ACTUAL story, with emphasis on the word"ACTUAL", of Abram begins in chapter 12 of Genesis to correspond with the sun and the 12 constellations.

So, if we regard Abraham as not being real, what happens to his two sons?...
which according to the bible are also not real? Now if his two sons are not real, what happens to the 12 so called tribes that also come from him? Oh, my bad..I forgot, there is no historical eveidence of any bondage in Egypt. Well I'll be...does this also mean the so called history of Moses freeing them is fake too? Why,...I think we have something real smelly going on here ! HHhhmmm...I wonder what it could be? :-}

Peace info:

My point is that Abraham was not a Jew...which is the topic of this thread.

It's my point also...for how can someone who did not exist be anything at all?

According to the Bible, the Qur'an and the Torah - and the major religions of the world - Abraham existed. This is also the general consensus of opinion amongst Biblical scholars, Islamic scholars, and Judaic scholars. Can you provide us with any documented, verifiable evidence stating that he did not exist?

Peace info:

My point is that Abraham was not a Jew...which is the topic of this thread.

peace,

Overstood my brotha Aqil, I just want to see his picture!

peace

According to the Bible, the Qur'an and the Torah - and the major religions of the world - Abraham existed. This is also the general consensus of opinion amongst Biblical scholars, Islamic scholars, and Judaic scholars. Can you provide us with any documented, verifiable evidence stating that he did not exist?

peace,

they all also say that Moses & Jesus existed, but all I want is too see their pictures...........

I can show one pictures of Osiris, Anubis, Tut, Ankhenaten & so many others prior to 2 thousand years ago so their were artists keeping records of what people looked like. how come we don't have any pictures of these most popular individuals called Moses, Abraham & Jesus today, surely someone saw them & said........ "HEY LET ME DRAW A PICTURE OF YOU IN CASE SOMEONE IN THE FUTURE DON'T BELIEVE THAT U EXISTED"............peace

You can read the story of Abraham and view pictures here:

http://www.mustardseed.net/html/peabhamd.html

You can read the story of Abraham and view pictures here:

http://www.mustardseed.net/html/peabhamd.html

peace brotha Aqil,

surely u gest at suggesting that these are pictures of Ibrahim.........Are u really sirius???????

I personally am insulted at the fact that I asked u a sirius ? & u present me with http://www.mustardseed.net/html/peabhamd.html - all I see is a very VERY faint (drawn) picture which no conclusion can be drawn.....if u were to ask me I would venture to say that this is another picture of some CRACKA!!!

I really would have respected the fact that u didn't reply to my previous ? a lot more, than to try & insult my (& others who may view this site you've presented) intelligence!!

U claim Islaam do you not - then why would u direct anyone to a non - islaamic site for proof of someone's existance???? Is not your own religion sufficient?????

U just lost a lot of respect from me & probably others on this one bra - be careful of your next thread!!!!!!!!

You asked for pictures, and I found some for you...and I haven't lost anything. :rolleyes:

Peace.

You asked for pictures, and I found some for you...and I haven't lost anything. :rolleyes:

Peace.

peace,

EXACTLY, U FOUND SOME!!!!!!!! but u can't honestly expect anyone to believe that this is Abraham brotha! all u did was further the point that he did not exist......................

My statement "show me a picture" was rhetorical for U or anyone else can not find a picture of Ibrahim, Musa or Issa because they DID NOT EXIST!!!

:read: :read:

How do you know? Do you have any documented evidence that supports your position?

How do you know? Do you have any documented evidence that supports your position?

peace Aqil,

yes I do........your lack of proof that he did exist.

...................also, this non-melonaic picture you've presented that should raise some eyebrows as to your intentions here!

...................not to mention the fact that most of your info comes from people other than original!!!!

But, no need for me to even say what I just did, for your own ? in retro-spect is actually the answer.........do the math!

"scientifically mortified to find
that there is always more to find"
the "eye" is only but a sign
let me find out that you're more than blind

You didn't answer my question...

You didn't answer my question...

peace,

I did answer your ? brotha........the lack of an authentic PICTURE being giving to us as evidence of HIS existance is my proof!!!!!!

but no need for me to explain as u already knew what I meant in my previous post..................

peace

You said that Abraham did not exist. I asked you if you had documented evidence that supported your position, and you responded by saying that my inability to produce a picture of Abraham proves that he did not exist!!! :laugh:

(Btw, what is your religion?)

You said that Abraham did not exist. I asked you if you had documented evidence that supported your position, and you responded by saying that my inability to produce a picture of Abraham proves that he did not exist!!! :laugh:

(Btw, what is your religion?)

peace,

laugh if u must to stroke your own ego, but u expose yourself at the same time......I told u to do the math, knowing u follow islaam. Is not the Qu'ran a book of Mathematics - be careful in your response for we may reveal that u are not really a Muslim..........

if u still don't overstand what I've state TWICE, then I am concerned for you & the many threads you have started in regards to RELIGION......

My religion is Knowledge
so you can't Willie Lynch me
U wanna know because u are doing what the slave master taught
which is try to turn positive energy against me

don't make me finish this poem...............please bra!

peace

I laughed 'cause you funny, brother...and you still haven't answered any of my questions. I asked you if you had documented, verifiable evidence that supports your claim that the Biblical Abraham did not exist. You have yet to answer. I asked you what your religion was, and you proffer some vacuous, nondefinitive sophistry instead.

It is one thing to tell a man that he is in error, and another to put him in possession of truth, which you have failed to do...

If you are an agnostic, atheist, utilitarian or secular humanist, I suggest that you create your own thread and present your own views for discussion...

In the meantime, back to the topic of my thread:

The Great Prophet Abraham Was Not a Jew

Abraham the Patriarch, the father of all Semitic people, was a Chaldean by birth, emanating from the city of Ur in Chaldea (an ancient Asian country on the western shores of the Persian Gulf) – according to the Biblical record – in the year 1917 BC. He was a descendant of Eber, the great-grandson of Shem, who was the eldest son of Noah. His father was Terah, who was also Chaldean [Gen. 11:28]. It stands to reason, therefore, that Abraham was not a Jew – as is generally supposed – and furthermore, Jewish people did not exist during his time...

His sons Ishmael and Isaac were not Jews, neither were his grandsons Esau and Jacob, and neither were the sons of Jacob – Abraham’s great-grandsons – Reuben, Shimeon and Levi. The fourth son of Jacob, born in the year 1753 BC. was named Judah, and his descendants were called “Jews,” an abbreviated and corrupt form of the Hebrew “Yahudim.”

When Abraham [the name translates “father of a multitude”] and his followers left the city of Ur in Chaldea and crossed the Euphrates River on their way to Canaan (Gen. 12:5), he and his people were called "Eberus," in order to distinguish them from the people who stayed behind. The word “Eber” translates “the region beyond” in the Hebrew language, and the names “Eberu” and “Eberus” were used by Abraham and the descendants of Eber, Noah’s great, great-grandson.

Through incorrect transliteration by some of the Biblical translators, Abraham The Eberu became Abraham the “Hebrew” (Gen. 14:13), a name by which some Jews are called even today. But Hebrew is the language of the Jewish people. There is no such thing as a Hebrew race or Hebrew people...

Abraham begot Ishmael, his first-born son, by Hagar, an African woman who was also the daughter of an Egyptian-Ethiopian Pharaoh. He begot Isaac, his second son, by Sarah, his Chaldean wife who was also his half-sister (Gen. 20:11-12). Ishmael is regarded as the father of all Arabs, whereas Isaac is regarded as the father of all Jews...

Ishmael’s first-born son was named Kedar,which translates “black-skinned.” The Bible and the Qur’an are at variance as to which of Abraham’s sons was offered for sacrifice. According to the Bible it was Isaac (Gen. 22:2). The Qur’an, on the other hand, declares clearly and unequivocally that it was Ishmael (Sura 37:103).

The Bible contradicts itself in this respect. According to it, Abraham was commanded to offer his “only son” for sacrifice, but Isaac was at no time his only son. Ishmael was senior to Isaac by 13 years, and was for these many years Abraham’s only son, and, being also his firstborn, was extremely dear to him. It stands to reason, therefore, that Abraham must have been required by God to offer for sacrifice his nearest and dearest possession, which, at that time, was his first-born son, Ishmael...

Some Christian evangelists have vainly tried to show that “Ishmael, being of the handmaiden, was born after the flesh, while Isaac, being born of the free woman, was by promise” (Gal. 4:22-23). Apart from the fact that Hagar, Ishmael’s mother, belonged to the royal family of Egypt and was no handmaid, Ishmael has repeatedly been mentioned in the Bible as Abraham’s son (Gen. 16:16, 17:23 & 25), exactly as Isaac. Moreover, analogous promises were made to Abraham in regard to the future greatness of Ishmael as were made to him about Isaac (Gen. 16:10 and 17:20).

Apart from the substitution in the Bible of Isaac for Ishmael – which seems to be deliberate – and of “Moriah” for “Marwah,” a hillock that lies in the vicinity of Mecca (near where Abraham left Ishmael with his mother Hagar while yet a child), there is nothing in the Bible to lend the slightest support to the view that Abraham offered Isaac for sacrifice, and not Ishmael.

But whereas no trace is to be found in the religious ceremonies of Christians and Jews of the supposed sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham, Muslims, who are the spiritual descendants of Ishmael, commemorate with great fervor his intended sacrifice by slaughtering rams and goats every year on the 10th day of Dhu’l-Hijjah, the 12th month of the Islamic year. This universal sacrifice of rams and goats by Muslims establishes – beyond dispute or doubt – the fact that it was Ishmael whom Abraham offered for sacrifice, and not Isaac...

In reality though, Abraham was not required to fulfill his vision in actual fact. It was only a practical demonstration of his intention and preparedness to sacrifice his son, which was desired of him. The vision had been fulfilled symbolically in Hagar and Ishmael having been left by Abraham in the valley of Mecca, which at that time was an arid and barren wasteland. That brave act had, in fact, symbolized the sacrifice of Ishmael...

The command to Abraham first to sacrifice his son and then to abstain from carrying it into actual fact showed also that it was intended to abolish human sacrifice, a most inhumane practice which was prevalent at that time in most countries...

Abraham lived to see the gradual accomplishment of the promise that his descendants would become a mighty nation in the birth of his grandsons Esau and Jacob, and witnessed their growth to manhood (Gen. 25:26). At the goodly age of 175 he was “gathered to his people,” and was laid beside Sarah in the "Cave of Machpelah" in Al-Khalil (the Biblical Hebron), Palestine, by his sons Ishmael and Isaac (Gen. 25:7-10).

Abraham ("Ibrahim" in the Arabic language) is very important to Islam, both in his own right and as the father of Ishmael, his firstborn son. He is considered one of the first and most important prophets of Islam, and is commonly termed "Khalil'lah," or "friend of God." Islam regards most of the Old Testament "patriarchs" as prophets of God, and hence as Muslims. While most Muslims believe that Adam, the first man, was the first Muslim, they universally agree that Abraham was a prophet of God.

According to the Quran, Abraham reached the conclusion that anything subject to disappearance could not be worthy of worship, and thus became a monotheist (Qur'an 6:76-83). As in Jewish tradition, Abraham's father (called "Azar" in Arabic) was an idol-maker, and Abraham broke his idols, calling on his community to worship God instead. They then cast him into a fire, which miraculously failed to burn him (37:83-98).

Muslims believe that it was Ishmael rather than Isaac whom Abraham was told to sacrifice. In support of this, Muslims note that the text of Genesis as it stands - despite specifying Isaac - appears to state that Abraham was told to sacrifice his only son to God. Since Isaac was Abraham's second son, there was no time at which he would have been Abraham's only son, so they take this to imply that the original text must have named Ishmael rather than Isaac, as the intended sacrifice. The Qur'an itself does not specify which son he nearly sacrificed (37:99-111).

The entire episode of the sacrifice is regarded as a trial that Abraham had to face from God. It is celebrated by Muslims on the day of Eid ul-Adha. Muslims also believe that Abraham, along with his son Ishmael, rebuilt the Kaabah in Mecca (2:125).

He is one of the most important prophets in Islam, and Muslims have a specific dua that - in some traditions - they recite daily, which asks God to bless both Abraham and Muhammad. According to Islamic tradition, he is buried in Hebron. In the Masjid al-Haram in Mecca there is an area known as the "Maqam Ibrahim" ("station of Abraham"), which supposedly bears an impression of his footprints...

I laughed 'cause you funny, brother...and you still haven't answered any of my questions. I asked you if you had documented, verifiable evidence that supports your claim that the Biblical Abraham did not exist. You have yet to answer. I asked you what your religion was, and you proffer some vacuous, nondefinitive sophistry instead.

It is one thing to tell a man that he is in error, and another to put him in possession of truth, which you have failed to do...

If you are an agnostic, atheist, utilitarian or secular humanist, I suggest that you create your own thread and present your own views for discussion...

peace,

I guess u want to see the rest of the poem..............OK!!!

My religion is Knowledge
so you can't Willie Lynch me
U wanna know because u are doing what the slave master taught
which is try to turn positive energy against me
like the 5 pointed star
the crescent & moon of Islaam
I told U knowledge is my "religion", you must be blind, deaf & dumb
posting religious threads as if you're hosting a sitcom
no disrespect
but I be tryin' to disconnect
with that picture u tried to pass off as Abraham
I now know why the bible said Jesus wept
Ibrahim did not exist
don't mean to deflate your chest
I will start my own thread
since u find the need for me to explain the rest
but u still won't overstand
cause you're only responding tryin' to save face
bouncin' back & forth on issues, but on any forum here
you can always find my mind in the same place
do the knowledge
how many times do u want me to answer your same weak ?
Your proof that he existed is my proof that he did not
now brotha Aqil how long on this point are you going to keep stressin'?
you're starting to sound as if you're waiting for the congregation to yell
"GO AHEAD & PREACH REVEREND"
what u started off as being a big bold statement
recently, has deteriorated into a weak lesson
lest we forget
I also stated that Musa & Issa never existed
or do u wanna show me 2 more caucasoid pictures to try & prove me wrong

the same mind state that causes Jehovah to need a witness
that's why u cut & paste
but cutting & pasting is a mental waste
for what have u really learned for yourself
that can motivate YOUR people to try & help them win this race
so the scripture says "my people are destroyed for a LACK OF KNOWLEDGE"
come on & let's get back to that.............
next time be a little more careful of the pictures u choose
to try & back "your facts"
but don't get me wrong, I ain't mad at u bra
i may sound angry cause I have a passion for life
the life of OUR people who need great minds like yours to tell the TRUTH
unlike Mel Gibson & that cave man in the "passion of Christ"

no matter what u cut & paste, they did not exist.......................

What is the source of your information? Are we supposed to believe that Abraham, Moses and Jesus did not exist because you haven't seen any pictures of them?

What is the source of your information? Are we supposed to believe that Abraham, Moses and Jesus did not exist because you haven't seen any pictures of them?

peace,

No sir..........but rather because U nor anyone else has EVER seen any picture (s) of them!!!!

peace

peace,

Abraham according to your scriptures was neither Muslim, Christian or Jew he was an "upright man"....In the Holy Qu'ran it speaks of Ibrahim existing because the story is copied from the biblical text....as that of musa and others!

But u would be hard pressed to prove that he actually EXISTED....

peace

True indeed INFO.

The fact that ABRAHAM didn't even exsist, makes this all a moot point.

Not to mention that I would challenge the fact that he was all that "upright", when according to Kemetic lore nomads were scene as "filthy and unscrupulous".

This point is all the more bolstered, when ABRAHAM (most likely a HYKSOS patriarch) sought a KEMETIAN wife (HAGAR), but she refused him because he was "uncut"........Then "GOD" blessed him with the "covenant of circumcision" thereafter.

Circumcision by the way, was not a practice of the Eurasians, but a wholly African practice.

HOTEPU

True indeed INFO.

The fact that ABRAHAM didn't even exsist, makes this all a moot point.

Not to mention that I would challenge the fact that he was all that "upright", when according to Kemetic lore nomads were scene as "filthy and unscrupulous".

This point is all the more bolstered, when ABRAHAM (most likely a HYKSOS patriarch) sought a KEMETIAN wife (HAGAR), but she refused him because he was "uncut"........Then "GOD" blessed him with the "covenant of circumcision" thereafter.

Circumcision by the way, was not a practice of the Eurasians, but a wholly African practice.

HOTEPU

peace,

& welcome to Destee.com brother Samurai..................True indeed god, one would be hard pressed to prove he was upright. I was just responding to brother Aqil's statements regarding what the Qu'ran says of Ibrahim........

It's a pleasure to have another great mind aboard the Mother ship called "Destee.com"..........

peace

PEACE LORD:

True indeed, and happy to be amongst the true and living.

HOTEPU

I join the others in welcoming you, SAMURAI36...thanks for stopping by. Enjoying our dialogue...we continue:

The fact that ABRAHAM didn't even exsist makes this all a moot point.Fact??? What fact??? The major religions of the world could not exist if there was no Abraham...

I join the others in welcoming you, SAMURAI36...thanks for stopping by. Enjoying our dialogue...we continue:

Fact??? What fact??? The major religions of the world could not exist if there was no Abraham...

Actually, the major religions of the world owe their exsistences to the ancient civilizations that preceded them.

Every religious belief that you adhere to, came from one of these other ancient civilizations.

That had nothing to do with Abraham. Abraham was simply one of the central characters in a religious story.

He existed during the Middle Kingdom of ancient Egypt...in the 11th Dynasty (ca. 2040-1980 BC)...during the reign of Pharaoh Mentuhotep IV according to the timeline...

He existed during the Middle Kingdom of ancient Egypt...in the 11th Dynasty (ca. 2040-1980 BC)...during the reign of Pharaoh Mentuhotep IV according to the timeline...

Prove it.

Show us some skeletal remains of "Abraham", and then I'll bear witness.

Interesting enough, you mention MentuHotep IV, and that Abraham co-exsisted according to the "timeline" (whose timeline????), yet we have record of MENTU's exsistence, along with his skeletal remains in the Valley.

Why is there no record in Kemet of "The Great Prophet Abraham" ever coming there?

This debate, and others like it, is easily settled with the presentation of empirical evidence.

HOTEPU

He existed during the Middle Kingdom of ancient Egypt...in the 11th Dynasty (ca. 2040-1980 BC)...during the reign of Pharaoh Mentuhotep IV according to the timeline...Prove it.

Show us some skeletal remains of "Abraham", and then I'll bear witness.I can't show you any skeletal remains of anybody...

Interesting enough, you mention MentuHotep IV, and that Abraham co-exsisted according to the "timeline" (whose timeline????), yet we have record of MENTU's exsistence, along with his skeletal remains in the Valley.There are several Egyptian dynasty timelines on the Internet...this is a good one:

http://dir.yahoo.com/Regional/Countries/Egypt/Arts_and_Humanities/Humanities/History/By_Time_Period/Ancient_History/Pharaohs/

Why is there no record in Kemet of "The Great Prophet Abraham" ever coming there?Perhaps because he was a shepherd...

This debate, and others like it, is easily settled with the presentation of empirical evidence.The existence of Abraham cannot be derived from empirical evidence, which is based on observation or experiment. However, Abraham was a Chaldean by birth, emanating from the city of Ur in Chaldea – according to the Biblical record – in the year 1917 BC., during the reign of Pharaoh Mentuhotep. He was a descendant of Eber, the great-grandson of Shem, who was the eldest son of Noah. His father was Terah, who was also Chaldean [Gen. 11:28]...

I can't show you any skeletal remains of anybody...

Sorry to hear that......Guess I won't be bearing witness to this fictional character then.......

There are several Egyptian dynasty timelines on the Internet...this is a good one:

http://dir.yahoo.com/Regional/Countries/Egypt/Arts_and_Humanities/Humanities/History/By_Time_Period/Ancient_History/Pharaohs/

More internet academia....... :(

I'm already familiar with the history of Kemet, from the Anunian Era to the Macedonian era.

Kemetian timelines are not what is in contention here; the physical exsistence of Abraham is. Thus, my question was how did you get info about Abraham's birth (seeing has how you cannot historically verify his exsistence), much less to reconcile it with a Kemetic timeline?


Perhaps because he was a shepherd...

What does that have to do with anything?

According to the story, did he not venture into Kemet, meet with the King, and take a hand maiden? (that story is so false, it isn't even funny; the Kemau hated nomads, because they felt that nomadic people took more than they give, and they had notorious reputations for stirring trouble with the citizens..... As a nomad, a SHEQHEM would NEVER have offered a Kemetian woman, to Abraham, especially since the system of matriarchy and matrilineage prevented such an act......Not to mention the fact that the Kemetians had to teach him the practice of circumcision before she would even have sex with him).

If he did, then there should be some accurate record of who met the King (you dont' think a dirty nomad would waltz into Kemet, and talk to the King without being announced, do you?)......Everyone who laid eyes on the King was documented by the royal scribes.

Where is a single document that Abraham was ever in Kemet?

The existence of Abraham cannot be derived from empirical evidence, which is based on observation or experiment.

Why not? Can empirical evidence be provided to show and prove MentuHotep's existence? If so, why cannot the same be applied to Abraham.

Under empiricism, if something can not be proven to exsist, then by default it does not exist.

And since you have nothing, save a STORY that cannot be seen as anything other than a fictional account, why then are you not willing to at least consider that that's all Abraham was--a fictional character in a fictional story?

However, Abraham was a Chaldean by birth, emanating from the city of Ur in Chaldea

Chaldea: another fictional place that never exsisted. I spoke about this in another thread. Just like the exsistence of "Abraham", you can't prove that Chaldea was an actual historical place.

"UR" or URUQ however, was a major providence in SUMERIA. Is this the place that you are talking about? If so, why are the correct names ever used in the Bible? Instead, we get "Egypt, Shinar, Phut, Canaan", and other such made up places. If Abraham (and other Prophets) traveled to and lived in these lands, and met with their kings and slept with their women, why then don't they even know the proper names?

– according to the Biblical record – in the year 1917 BC., during the reign of Pharaoh Mentuhotep. He was a descendant of Eber, the great-grandson of Shem, who was the eldest son of Noah. His father was Terah, who was also Chaldean [Gen. 11:28]...

Where, and in what Bible do you read from, that gives you the dates in which Abraham was supposedly born?

And please do not offer Biblical text as any sort of relevant historical info; if you cannot provide as much as a tombstone with Abraham's name on it (or any Prophet of the Bible, for that matter), then his/their exsistence is pure conjecture.

At least we know that the Prophet Muhammad exsisted; his garments, his sword, and his skeletal remains are all accounted for.

He seems to be the only real living, breathing individual out of the whole bunch.

PEACE

However, Abraham was a Chaldean by birth, emanating from the city of Ur in Chaldea...Chaldea: another fictional place that never exsisted. I spoke about this in another thread. Just like the exsistence of "Abraham", you can't prove that Chaldea was an actual historical place.According to Wikipedia, Ur was an ancient city in southern Mesopotamia, originally located near the mouth of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers on the Persian Gulf. Because of marine regression, the remains are now well inland in present-day Iraq, south of the Euphrates on its right bank, and named "Tell el-Mukayyar," near the city of Nasiriyah, south of Baghdad.

Ur was inhabited in the earliest stage of village settlement in southern Mesopotamia, the Ubaid period. However it later appears to have been abandoned for a time. Scholars believe that, as the climate changed from relatively moist to drought in the early 3rd millenium BC, the small farming villages of the Ubaid culture consolidated into larger settlements out of the need for large-scale, centralized irrigation works to survive the dry spell. Ur became such a center, and by around 2600 BC, in the Sumerian Early Dynastic Period III, the city was again thriving. Ur by this time was considered sacred to Nanna, the moon god in Sumerian mythology.

The location of Ur was favorable for trade by sea and also by land routes into Arabia. Many elaborate tombs including that of Queen Puabi were constructed. Eventually the kings of Ur became the effective rulers of Sumer, in the first dynasty of Ur, which was established by the king Mesannepada. In the 6th century BC there was new building in Ur under the rule of Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon. The last Babylonian king, Nabonidus of Babylonia improved the ziggurat. However the city started to decline from around 550 BC and was no longer inhabited after about 500 BC, perhaps due to drought caused by changing river patterns and/or the silting of the outlet to the Persian Gulf.

Ur is mentioned four times in the Old Testament, as with the distinction "of the Kasdim/Kasdin," which is traditionally rendered in English "Ur of the Chaldees," referring to the Chaldeans, who settled there around 900 BC. The Kasidim could also refer to the Kassites who were present during the time during which the Exodus occurred. In Genesis 11:28 & 31 and 15:7, Ur is described as the birthplace of Abraham, the largest city of Shinar or northern Chaldea, and the principal commercial center of the country, as well as the center of political power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur

"UR" or URUQ however, was a major providence in SUMERIA. Is this the place that you are talking about?No.

Where, and in what Bible do you read from, that gives you the dates in which Abraham was supposedly born?I saw this date in a concordance several years ago...I cannot recall which one or what Bible. However, Smith's Bible Dictionary says Abraham lived between 1996-1822 BC (p.13)...

I agree, brother Abraham was not a Jew.

He was a Hebrew.

According to Wikipedia, Ur was an ancient city in southern Mesopotamia, originally located near the mouth of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers on the Persian Gulf. Because of marine regression, the remains are now well inland in present-day Iraq, south of the Euphrates on its right bank, and named "Tell el-Mukayyar," near the city of Nasiriyah, south of Baghdad.

Ur was inhabited in the earliest stage of village settlement in southern Mesopotamia, the Ubaid period. However it later appears to have been abandoned for a time. Scholars believe that, as the climate changed from relatively moist to drought in the early 3rd millenium BC, the small farming villages of the Ubaid culture consolidated into larger settlements out of the need for large-scale, centralized irrigation works to survive the dry spell. Ur became such a center, and by around 2600 BC, in the Sumerian Early Dynastic Period III, the city was again thriving. Ur by this time was considered sacred to Nanna, the moon god in Sumerian mythology.

The location of Ur was favorable for trade by sea and also by land routes into Arabia. Many elaborate tombs including that of Queen Puabi were constructed. Eventually the kings of Ur became the effective rulers of Sumer, in the first dynasty of Ur, which was established by the king Mesannepada. In the 6th century BC there was new building in Ur under the rule of Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon. The last Babylonian king, Nabonidus of Babylonia improved the ziggurat. However the city started to decline from around 550 BC and was no longer inhabited after about 500 BC, perhaps due to drought caused by changing river patterns and/or the silting of the outlet to the Persian Gulf.

Ur is mentioned four times in the Old Testament, as with the distinction "of the Kasdim/Kasdin," which is traditionally rendered in English "Ur of the Chaldees," referring to the Chaldeans, who settled there around 900 BC. The Kasidim could also refer to the Kassites who were present during the time during which the Exodus occurred. In Genesis 11:28 & 31 and 15:7, Ur is described as the birthplace of Abraham, the largest city of Shinar or northern Chaldea, and the principal commercial center of the country, as well as the center of political power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur

"MESOPOTAMIA, BABYLON"........

It never ceases to amaze me, how the masses of the world continue to absorb these made-up names into the collective psyche, never realizing the origins of these names (and the connotations behind them) had nothing to do with the lands in question.

Also, these discussions in this section of the site seem to be overlapping; this was the statement I'd made about this very same subject in another thread:

Mesopotamia is a word that did not even exsist prior to the 19th Century. It can't even be found in your Bible.

It's a generic name used to connotate a region that spans 3 to 4 whole nations (Sumeria, Persia, Northern Arabia, Assyria, Elam, Northern Indus, etc).

It's basically like saying "Middle East", to describe all the countries in that area.

Mesopotamia was never a real place.


Same thing with "Chaldea"......Point to Chaldea on a map. I bet you can't do it. Same with "Babylon"......All these made-up Hebraic Greco-Latin transliterations are ridiculous.

I saw this date in a concordance several years ago...I cannot recall which one or what Bible. However, Smith's Bible Dictionary says Abraham lived between 1996-1822 BC (p.13)...


There is a DICTIONARY OF MYTHOLOGY (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=cw6tAtrA5F&isbn=0440208483&itm=4).......Does this book somehow validate the historical exsistence of ZEUS, ATHENA, MINERVA and such, just because it is in a "dictionary"?

Are these the best historical documents that you can provide here?

I'm still awaiting the scientific, historical, and anthropological proof that your Abraham ever exsisted.

PEACE

Here is evidence of his existence according to the Jewish tradition:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/abraham.html

Here is evidence of his existence according to the Jewish tradition:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/abraham.html

peace god,

glad to see you well............

Where is the proof as I did not see it on the thread you provided??????????

peace

I didn't see it either.

All I did see, was more Biblical assertions.

How and when did the Bible become the standard for academic reference? :confused:

THREAD CORRUPTION!!!

I suggest that those of you who question Abraham's existence create a thread and share your proof of his nonexistence. The topic of my thread is, "The Great Prophet Abraham Was Not A Jew." I have reposted it in its entirety:

Abraham the Patriarch, the father of all Semitic people, was a Chaldean by birth, emanating from the city of Ur in Chaldea (an ancient Asian country on the western shores of the Persian Gulf) – according to the Biblical record – in the year 1917 BC. He was a descendant of Eber, the great-grandson of Shem, who was the eldest son of Noah. His father was Terah, who was also Chaldean [Gen. 11:28]. It stands to reason, therefore, that Abraham was not a Jew – as is generally supposed – and furthermore, Jewish people did not exist during his time...

His sons Ishmael and Isaac were not Jews, neither were his grandsons Esau and Jacob, and neither were the sons of Jacob – Abraham’s great-grandsons – Reuben, Shimeon and Levi. The fourth son of Jacob, born in the year 1753 BC. was named Judah, and his descendants were called “Jews,” an abbreviated and corrupt form of the Hebrew “Yahudim.”

When Abraham [the name translates “father of a multitude”] and his followers left the city of Ur in Chaldea and crossed the Euphrates River on their way to Canaan (Gen. 12:5), he and his people were called "Eberus," in order to distinguish them from the people who stayed behind. The word “Eber” translates “the region beyond” in the Hebrew language, and the names “Eberu” and “Eberus” were used by Abraham and the descendants of Eber, Noah’s great, great-grandson.

Through incorrect transliteration by some of the Biblical translators, Abraham The Eberu became Abraham the “Hebrew” (Gen. 14:13), a name by which some Jews are called even today. But Hebrew is the language of the Jewish people. There is no such thing as a Hebrew race or Hebrew people...

Abraham begot Ishmael, his first-born son, by Hagar, an African woman who was also the daughter of an Egyptian-Ethiopian Pharaoh. He begot Isaac, his second son, by Sarah, his Chaldean wife who was also his half-sister (Gen. 20:11-12). Ishmael is regarded as the father of all Arabs, whereas Isaac is regarded as the father of all Jews...

Ishmael’s first-born son was named Kedar,which translates “black-skinned.” The Bible and the Qur’an are at variance as to which of Abraham’s sons was offered for sacrifice. According to the Bible it was Isaac (Gen. 22:2). The Qur’an, on the other hand, declares clearly and unequivocally that it was Ishmael (Sura 37:103).

The Bible contradicts itself in this respect. According to it, Abraham was commanded to offer his “only son” for sacrifice, but Isaac was at no time his only son. Ishmael was senior to Isaac by 13 years, and was for these many years Abraham’s only son, and, being also his firstborn, was extremely dear to him. It stands to reason, therefore, that Abraham must have been required by God to offer for sacrifice his nearest and dearest possession, which, at that time, was his first-born son, Ishmael...

Some Christian evangelists have vainly tried to show that “Ishmael, being of the handmaiden, was born after the flesh, while Isaac, being born of the free woman, was by promise” (Gal. 4:22-23). Apart from the fact that Hagar, Ishmael’s mother, belonged to the royal family of Egypt and was no handmaid, Ishmael has repeatedly been mentioned in the Bible as Abraham’s son (Gen. 16:16, 17:23 & 25), exactly as Isaac. Moreover, analogous promises were made to Abraham in regard to the future greatness of Ishmael as were made to him about Isaac (Gen. 16:10 and 17:20).

Apart from the substitution in the Bible of Isaac for Ishmael – which seems to be deliberate – and of “Moriah” for “Marwah,” a hillock that lies in the vicinity of Mecca (near where Abraham left Ishmael with his mother Hagar while yet a child), there is nothing in the Bible to lend the slightest support to the view that Abraham offered Isaac for sacrifice, and not Ishmael.

But whereas no trace is to be found in the religious ceremonies of Christians and Jews of the supposed sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham, Muslims, who are the spiritual descendants of Ishmael, commemorate with great fervor his intended sacrifice by slaughtering rams and goats every year on the 10th day of Dhu’l-Hijjah, the 12th month of the Islamic year. This universal sacrifice of rams and goats by Muslims establishes – beyond dispute or doubt – the fact that it was Ishmael whom Abraham offered for sacrifice, and not Isaac...

In reality though, Abraham was not required to fulfill his vision in actual fact. It was only a practical demonstration of his intention and preparedness to sacrifice his son, which was desired of him. The vision had been fulfilled symbolically in Hagar and Ishmael having been left by Abraham in the valley of Mecca, which at that time was an arid and barren wasteland. That brave act had, in fact, symbolized the sacrifice of Ishmael...

The command to Abraham first to sacrifice his son and then to abstain from carrying it into actual fact showed also that it was intended to abolish human sacrifice, a most inhumane practice which was prevalent at that time in most countries...

Abraham lived to see the gradual accomplishment of the promise that his descendants would become a mighty nation in the birth of his grandsons Esau and Jacob, and witnessed their growth to manhood (Gen. 25:26). At the goodly age of 175 he was “gathered to his people,” and was laid beside Sarah in the "Cave of Machpelah" in Al-Khalil (the Biblical Hebron), Palestine, by his sons Ishmael and Isaac (Gen. 25:7-10).

Ishmael - Abraham's firstborn son by Hagar - is mentioned in the Bible as Abraham’s son (Genesis 16:16, 17:23,25), exactly as Isaac (Abraham's son by Sarah). Moreover, analogous promises were made to Abraham in regard to the future greatness of Ishmael as were made to him about Isaac (Genesis 16:10 and 17:20). Ishmael's son was named "Kedar," which means "black-skinned" in Hebrew. Christians should start reciting the true lineage - Abraham, Ishmael and Kedar - instead of the corrupted one, i.e., "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" that was imposed on our ancestors by the "Christian" slavemaster...

MP:

Prophet Abraham, the father of all Semitic people, was a Chaldean by birth, emanating from the city of Ur in Chaldea (an ancient Asian country on the western shores of the Persian Gulf) – according to the Biblical record – in the year 1917 BC. He was a descendant of Eber, the great-grandson of Shem, who was the eldest son of Noah. His father was Terah, who was also Chaldean [Gen. 11:28]. It stands to reason, therefore, that Abraham was not a Jew – as is generally supposed – and furthermore, Jewish people did not exist during his time...