From the attributes of God set forth in Egyptian texts of all periods, the eminent Egyptologists, Drs. H. Brugsch and E. de Rouge, have come to the opinion that the dwellers of the Nile Valley – from earliest times – knew and worshipped one God; nameless, incomprehensible, and eternal...

In 1860 de Rouge wrote:

“The unity of a supreme and self-existent being, his eternity, his almightiness and external reproduction thereby as God; the immortality of the soul, completed by the dogma of punishments and rewards: such is the sublime and persistent base which, notwithstanding all deviations and all mythological embellishments, must secure for the beliefs of the ancient Egyptians a most honorable place among the religions of antiquity.”

Nine years later he developed this view, and discussed the difficulty of reconciling the belief in the unity of God with the polytheism which existed in Egypt from the earliest times, and he repeated his conviction that the Egyptians believed in a self-existent God who was One Being, who had created man, and who had endowed him with an immortal soul...

In fact, Dr. de Rouge amplifies what the famous French Egyptologist Champollion wrote in 1839:

“The Egyptian religion is a pure monotheism, which manifested itself externally by a symbolic polytheism.”

M. Pierret, in his book, The Egyptian Pantheon, adopts the view that the texts show us that the Egyptians believed in One Infinite and Eternal God who was without a second, and he repeats Champollion’s dictum. But the most ardent supporter of the monotheistic theory is Dr. Brugsch, who has collected a number of striking passages from the texts, one of which is The Egyptian Book of the Dead, the holy book of the ancient Egyptians...

It was written circa 1500 BC, but historians say there are texts which are known to have existed in revised editions and to have been in use among the ancient Egyptians as early as 4500 BC, some 5,000 years before the advent of Christianity. A profound excerpt from one of the passages reads as follows:

“God is one and alone, and none other existeth with Him – God is the One, the One who hath made all things – God is a spirit, a hidden spirit, the spirit of spirits, the great spirit of the Egyptians, the Divine spirit – God is from the beginning, and He hath been from the beginning...

He hath existed from old and was when nothing else had being. He existed when nothing else existed, and what existeth He created after He had come into being...

He is the Father of beginnings – God is the Eternal One, He is eternal and infinite and endureth forever, and yes – God is hidden and no man knoweth His form. No man hath been able to seek out His likeness; He is hidden to the gods and men, and He is a mystery unto His creatures...

No man knoweth how to know Him – His name remaineth hidden; His name is a mystery unto His children. His names are innumerable; they are manifold and none knoweth their number...

God is truth and He feedeth thereon. He is the king of truth, and He hath established the Earth thereupon – God is life and through Him only man liveth. He giveth life to man, He breatheth the breath of life into his nostrils – God is father and mother, the father of fathers and the mother of mothers. He begetteth, but was never begotten; He produceth, but was never produced; He begat himself and produced himself. He createth, but was never created; He is the maker of His own form and the fashioner of His own body.

God Himself is existence, He endureth without increase or diminution, He multiplieth Himself millions of times, and He is manifold in forms and in numbers – God hath made the Universe, and He created all that therein is; He is the Creator of what is in this world, and of what was, of what is, and of what shall be. He is the Creator of the Heavens, and of the Earth, and of the deep, and of the water, and of the mountains.

God hath stretched out the Heavens and founded the Earth – what His heart conceived straightway came to pass, and when He hath spoken, it cometh to pass and endureth forever – God is the father of the gods; He fashioned men and formed the gods – God is merciful unto those who reverence Him, and He heareth him that calleth upon Him. God knoweth him that acknowledges Him; He rewardeth him that serveth Him, and He protecteth him that followeth Him.”

(The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Papyrus of Ani, transliteration and translation by E.A. Wallis Budge, pp. xcii-xciii)

This profound passage, written thousands of years before the advent of Christianity, proves – beyond a doubt – that the ancient Egyptians of Africa believed in a self-existent God who was One Being; who created man and endowed him with an immortal soul...

great job on the research. The Christians try to say they didn't steal from the Egyptians because they had many gods. This assumption is absurb.

Great job on the research. The Christians try to say they didn't steal from the Egyptians because they had many gods. This assumption is absurd.Thank you AACOOLDRE, and your comment is on point...

This is proof-positive of the fact that it was the Black man who first came up with the concept of God...

The Ancient Egyptian Concept of God:

"God is one and alone, and none other existeth with Him – God is the One, the One who hath made all things – God is a spirit, a hidden spirit, the spirit of spirits, the great spirit of the Egyptians, the Divine spirit – God is from the beginning, and He hath been from the beginning.

He hath existed from old and was when nothing else had being. He existed when nothing else existed, and what existeth He created after He had come into being.

He is the Father of beginnings – God is the Eternal One, He is eternal and infinite and endureth forever, and yes – God is hidden and no man knoweth His form. No man hath been able to seek out His likeness; He is hidden to the gods and men, and He is a mystery unto His creatures.

No man knoweth how to know Him – His name remaineth hidden; His name is a mystery unto His children. His names are innumerable; they are manifold and none knoweth their number.

God is truth and He feedeth thereon. He is the king of truth, and He hath established the Earth thereupon – God is life and through Him only man liveth. He giveth life to man, He breatheth the breath of life into his nostrils – God is father and mother, the father of fathers and the mother of mothers. He begetteth, but was never begotten; He produceth, but was never produced; He begat himself and produced himself. He createth, but was never created; He is the maker of His own form and the fashioner of His own body.

God Himself is existence, He endureth without increase or diminution, He multiplieth Himself millions of times, and He is manifold in forms and in numbers – God hath made the Universe, and He created all that therein is; He is the Creator of what is in this world, and of what was, of what is, and of what shall be. He is the Creator of the Heavens, and of the Earth, and of the deep, and of the water, and of the mountains.

God hath stretched out the Heavens and founded the Earth – what His heart conceived straightway came to pass, and when He hath spoken, it cometh to pass and endureth forever – God is the father of the gods; He fashioned men and formed the gods – God is merciful unto those who reverence Him, and He heareth him that calleth upon Him. God knoweth him that acknowledges Him; He rewardeth him that serveth Him, and He protecteth him that followeth Him."

(This is by far the best definition of God that I have ever read.)

Personally, I like what I read about the ancient Egyptian concept of God. Is this text inscribed somewhere or is it a summation of an opinion from someone's research of ancient Egyptian culture? Is this the foundation of all religious dogmas?

It is found in The Egyptian Book of the Dead, which was the bible of the ancient Egyptians...

Thank you for the info.... :)

You're quite welcome, Queen...

There is texts refering to god as the "one, one".

Great WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Black man and woman is God.... not the Prima Materia, however, but God

Not true, Sekhemu...and a blasphemous statement at that. Allah (God) is the Creator of the Universe and All That Is Contained Therein. The "prima materia" that you mention is the Universe itself...

Btw, do you have a religious affiliation? If so, what is it?

No disrespect to you Aqil, but you are entitled to your opinion. If you ascertion as to what I posted in this thread is blashemous, that is your opinion, and opinions are arbitrary. I suscribe to no religion. I don't need a book to tell me how I should behave. Maybe others do but I do not. Perhaps you have not understood my comment entirely. I said the black man and woman are God. If your religion teaches you that the prima materia and allah are the very same, then more power to you. I am not of that belief. God and Prima Materia are not one and the same to me. Nor do I need to prove to you... why I say they are not.

I suggest you let this one go brotha, I am not here to debate another man's spiritual beliefs, and I certainly don't call another a blasphemer because I don't agree with them.

Hotep

I suggest you let this one go brotha, I am not here to debate another man's spiritual beliefs, and I certainly don't call another a blasphemer because I don't agree with them.I did not call you a "blasphemer"...I said that you made a blasphemous statement. One is a noun and the other is an adjective...

No disrespect to you Aqil, but you are entitled to your opinion. If your assertion as to what I posted in this thread is blasphemous, that is your opinion, and opinions are arbitrary. I disagreed with your arbitrary opinion, Sekhemu, that the Black man and woman are God...and stated my reasons why...(we are certainly God-like...)

If your religion teaches you that the prima materia and Allah are the very same, then more power to you. I am not of that belief. My religion teaches me that Allah (swt) is the Creator of the Universe and all that is contained therein, Sekhemu, including His greatest Creation - the human being. The Prima Materia is SPACE, which contains the Universe...

God and Prima Materia are not one and the same to me. Nor do I need to prove to you...why I say they are not.You don't have to prove anything...I agree with you...:)

I see once again, we have two completely different overstandings of what the prima materia means. It is my overstanding that the prima materia is the source and blue print of what is called the envisioned entity, or the will of the creator, the unseen spirit manifesting the quintessential archetype. This is akin the the Book of coming forth by day.

That doesn't sound like "space" to me. It is the primary matter that has yet to be transformed. This is alchemical, and relates to the macrocosm and microcosm. The transformation of the deceased, in the Metu Neter. So my brotha, I would strongly suggest we agree to disagree. You are muslim, I'm not. You have a fundamentally different overstanding of who and what is God and prima materia than I do. Let's leave it at that

You have your peace, and I certainly have mine...and that's the bottom line...Peace go with you brother...

hotep to you as well brotha

Back to the topic of the thread:

The One-God Concept of the Ancient Egyptians of Africa

From the attributes of God set forth in Egyptian texts of all periods, the eminent Egyptologists, Drs. H. Brugsch and E. de Rouge, have come to the opinion that the dwellers of the Nile Valley – from earliest times – knew and worshipped one God; nameless, incomprehensible, and eternal...

In 1860 de Rouge wrote:

“The unity of a supreme and self-existent being, his eternity, his almightiness and external reproduction thereby as God; the immortality of the soul, completed by the dogma of punishments and rewards: such is the sublime and persistent base which, notwithstanding all deviations and all mythological embellishments, must secure for the beliefs of the ancient Egyptians a most honorable place among the religions of antiquity.”

Nine years later he developed this view, and discussed the difficulty of reconciling the belief in the unity of God with the polytheism which existed in Egypt from the earliest times, and he repeated his conviction that the Egyptians believed in a self-existent God who was One Being, who had created man, and who had endowed him with an immortal soul...

In fact, Dr. de Rouge amplifies what the famous French Egyptologist Champollion wrote in 1839:

“The Egyptian religion is a pure monotheism, which manifested itself externally by a symbolic polytheism.”

M. Pierret, in his book, The Egyptian Pantheon, adopts the view that the texts show us that the Egyptians believed in One Infinite and Eternal God who was without a second, and he repeats Champollion’s dictum. But the most ardent supporter of the monotheistic theory is Dr. Brugsch, who has collected a number of striking passages from the texts, one of which is The Egyptian Book of the Dead, the holy book of the ancient Egyptians...

It was written circa 1500 BC, but historians say there are texts which are known to have existed in revised editions and to have been in use among the ancient Egyptians as early as 4500 BC, some 5,000 years before the advent of Christianity. A profound excerpt from one of the passages reads as follows:

“God is one and alone, and none other existeth with Him – God is the One, the One who hath made all things – God is a spirit, a hidden spirit, the spirit of spirits, the great spirit of the Egyptians, the Divine spirit – God is from the beginning, and He hath been from the beginning...

He hath existed from old and was when nothing else had being. He existed when nothing else existed, and what existeth He created after He had come into being...

He is the Father of beginnings – God is the Eternal One, He is eternal and infinite and endureth forever, and yes – God is hidden and no man knoweth His form. No man hath been able to seek out His likeness; He is hidden to the gods and men, and He is a mystery unto His creatures...

No man knoweth how to know Him – His name remaineth hidden; His name is a mystery unto His children. His names are innumerable; they are manifold and none knoweth their number...

God is truth and He feedeth thereon. He is the king of truth, and He hath established the Earth thereupon – God is life and through Him only man liveth. He giveth life to man, He breatheth the breath of life into his nostrils – God is father and mother, the father of fathers and the mother of mothers. He begetteth, but was never begotten; He produceth, but was never produced; He begat himself and produced himself. He createth, but was never created; He is the maker of His own form and the fashioner of His own body.

God Himself is existence, He endureth without increase or diminution, He multiplieth Himself millions of times, and He is manifold in forms and in numbers – God hath made the Universe, and He created all that therein is; He is the Creator of what is in this world, and of what was, of what is, and of what shall be. He is the Creator of the Heavens, and of the Earth, and of the deep, and of the water, and of the mountains.

God hath stretched out the Heavens and founded the Earth – what His heart conceived straightway came to pass, and when He hath spoken, it cometh to pass and endureth forever – God is the father of the gods; He fashioned men and formed the gods – God is merciful unto those who reverence Him, and He heareth him that calleth upon Him. God knoweth him that acknowledges Him; He rewardeth him that serveth Him, and He protecteth him that followeth Him.”

(The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Papyrus of Ani, transliteration and translation by E.A. Wallis Budge, pp. xcii-xciii)

This profound passage, written thousands of years before the advent of Christianity, proves – beyond a doubt – that the ancient Egyptians of Africa believed in a self-existent God who was One Being; who created man and endowed him with an immortal soul...

Thank you brother Aqil. The Coming Day by Fourth is the original bible, I believe. However my concept of God differs from many religious text....I believe God lives threw nature and myself.

Sekhemu...curiously are you NG&E?

You're welcome, Pharaoh Jah...I think you mean the Book of the Coming Forth by Day...

Yes that's it.. I always get the words mixed up.

The oldest extant religious writing describing the concept of one God still exists in its original form unchanged for over 4000 years. It is in the pyramid texts enscribed in the walls of the pyramid of Unas. It says "I was alone not born were they, I had not emmitted Shu and not emitted Tefnut. (i.e the principle of duality). I brought into my mouth my own name and I even I came into being".

The God refered to is Neter The Supreme Being of the Kamitic scientific religion.

HeruHetep
aka Wise Warrior

The Kemetic name is the Pr N Heru.

Thank you Brother Sopdet...

''Thank you Brother Sopdet...''

I am not a brother. I am female,but you are welcome.

:eek: My badd, Sister Sopdet...

God’s oneness?

Because we have been articulating our conception of god through the recent interpretation and rediscovered access to the records and scrolls of ancient prayers and verses, we yearn to identify with a one god in the context of modern modalities. An almighty watcher of our daily affairs and the victor of our triumphs, I still see reminisce of a singular national war god that dominates the invocations of empire building agrarian societies. I believe that the oneness of God is different than the singular god concept that imbued the prayers and recitations of the City/states of old. This one god, though it was singular and powerful in its dominion, always had cohorts and consorts. It is obvious that each city/state had a national god that was their “ALMIGHTY GOD” and when one research predating cultures related to that particular nationality or ethnic group you will sometime find that peculiar god, was one of many. Amongst the Yoruba people, after the fall of the OYO Empire, each city/village had its own governing Orisha.

As we look at African culture, rarely, if ever, is the so-called One Almighty God ever worshipped or invoked. He was usually viewed detached from the affairs of men/women and was hard to define in terrestrial ways and forms, although anthropomorphic and zoomorphic iconography existed symbolizing his existence. Many African cultures perceived him as hidden and/or unknown. They sought their help in ancestral spirits, lower gods and consorts of the Supreme. Saint worship in many modern religions is borrowed from these ancient constructs of animism and/or polytheism. And we look even closer at African/African-Asiatic cosmogony we see that the feminine principle or essence, sometimes known as chaos is older than creation itself.

Theologists, scholars and laymen have long ignored the polytheistic verses in the bible and the archaeological finds that shows a continual predominates of goddess figurines and fetishes in ancient Palestine. They also act like Palestine had a one-sect theocracy that held the religious ideals for all Hebrews (much like Israel today). It’s interesting that the Singular One God concept has been the foundation for some of the most destructive and warlike peoples in the history of the earth (then and now). Matter of fact, in some cases literally “one man’s god becomes another man’s devil”.

So what am I saying, if we view our interpretations of a One God through an African or even Taoist perspective we will see that the number one (1) is an all-encompassing number. Numbers are theoretical concepts and can be very conditional to perception, for African consciousness is beyond Newtonian parameters and abstractions. Mathematicians are still theorizing over the number zero (0). We like to use numbers to phantom the unseen or to give the so-called abstractions of life meaning. It’s like the quantifying values in the words big and small. Big and small? As the Last Poets would say “related to what”? The Taoist would say, “if god is in the largest of things, than he is in the smallest of things” and the Taoist would go even further and say if you could put God in a value such as the “largest of things” or in the context of the number one, then he is limited. The one we call, “The Most High”, is our highest self, for in one there are many. Nothing in the Universe comes by itself or of itself. When the gods are self-born it is the spirit (ruach) invoking a living soul to reside in form and then the act of self-realization, which is really the WE (i.e., “Let us make man, in the likeness of ourselves”). As we learn there is no word for the me-I (ego) in some African languages. When brother Jesus the teacher said, “when you see me you see god, when you see God you see me”, this is the highest spiritual level of the African soul and mind both in God and man. Even Elijah Muhammad said, we come of ourselves not of another kind. This is absolute oneness. So I hope this adds to the faith of my brothers and sisters, neither takes away nor destroys.

LIVE LONG

^5 Sun Ship...and thank you for your enlightening discourse...

“God is one and alone, and none other existeth with Him – God is the One, the One who hath made all things – God is a spirit, a hidden spirit, the spirit of spirits, the great spirit of the Egyptians, the Divine spirit – God is from the beginning, and He hath been from the beginning...

He hath existed from old and was when nothing else had being. He existed when nothing else existed, and what existeth He created after He had come into being...

He is the Father of beginnings – God is the Eternal One, He is eternal and infinite and endureth forever, and yes – God is hidden and no man knoweth His form. No man hath been able to seek out His likeness; He is hidden to the gods and men, and He is a mystery unto His creatures...

No man knoweth how to know Him – His name remaineth hidden; His name is a mystery unto His children. His names are innumerable; they are manifold and none knoweth their number..."


(The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Papyrus of Ani, transliteration and translation by E.A. Wallis Budge, pp. xcii-xciii)

The Word Mitre And It's Origin , The Word Mitre Comes From '' Miterism '' Miterism Religion Comes Out Of The Word '' Zoroaster , Who Was A Sixth Century B.C. Prophet . Zoroaster Founded '' Zorastrianism . And He Also Believes In The Virgin Birth Od A Deity . That Died On The Cross And Is On His Way Back To Pick Up The Lost Souls Of His People . Like Wise , Not Your Jesus Christ , This Jesus PREDATE Him In Persia , And In Many Other Religions . Which Originated From The Egiptian Virgin Birth Story Of Aset ( Isis , Auset ) And Her Son Haru ( Heru , Horus ) . But With A Different Concept . According To , Encarta Encyclopedia Coptic Church Is Taken From The Arabic Word '' Qubt Meaning '' Center , Axist '' From The Greek Word '' Aiguptios , '' Egyptian '' Recent Scholarship Suggests That The Orgins Of '' Egiptian '' Christains Are To Be Found Amongst The Jews Living In Alexandria In The 1st Century A.D. By The End Of The 2nd Century In Alexandria , The Major City Of Hellenistic Egypt , The Christian School Was Headed By Clement Of Alexandria Had Already Acquired Great Fame ( The Greek Christian Theology And Biblical Science , Followed Clement As Head Of The School In The 4th And 5th Centuries , Two Great Bishops Of Alexandria Defended Christian Orthodoxy -- Saint Athanasius , Against Arianism . And Saint Cyril . Against Nestorianism . James The Just . Was Also Known As '' Jacob Or Yaqub , Which When You LQQk Up The Name '' Yaqub , It Is An Egiptian Name Meaning '' Jacob Hath '' It Is Not A Hebrew Name . It's An Egiptian Word . He Took The Church Into '' Tama - Re '' Egipt '' As A Coptic , And Gave Them The Mitre Head Dress . That Is Were The Popes Today Get Their Head Dress From , Like Every Other Religion , Tama - Re '' Egipt '' Is The Source Of All Religions. The Popes Also Received Their Concept Of The Mitre From Jesus Who Is Also Referred To As The Fisherman ( John 21 ; 7 , Mark 1 ; 17 ) It Is Symbolic Of The Deity Dagon , Because Rome Ruled The World For 2,000 Years Under The Age Of Pisces. As Mentioned Above , The Mitre Headdress Also Originated From '' Dagon , A Babylonian Deity Who Is Depicted As A Half Man And Half Fish Reptilian Or Serpent Man , A Species Of The Reptilian Integrating With Humans . '' Dagon '' Is Fertility Deity . Who Was Worshiped By The Philistines Who Became The Hyksos . By Way Of '' Mitsrayim ( Mizraim ) Son Ludim , And Anamim , And Lehabim , And Naphtuhim . 14 And Pathusim , And Casluhim ( From Whence Came Forth The Philistines , And Caphtorim Genesis 10 ; 13 , The Dagon Fish Deity Throughout The Ancient Middle East , Is Still Being Worshipped Today Along With The Deity '' Baal . Who Was Also Called '' Bal - zebab , Beelzbub Master Of The Flies Dagon's Cult Is Known To Have Existed As Early As 2500 B.C. Called The Cult Of Lucifer Or Worshipper Of '' Baal - zebab , Today They Use The Words Like Lord To Replace '' Baal '' Or Lucifer . Number Of Reference To Dagon Are Made In The Old Testament . There Are Manu Derivations Of His Name . From The Hebrew Word For '' Gruin '' From The Semitic Word For '' Corn '' And From The Hebrew Word For '' Fish '' Old Testament Genesis 1 ; 26 , ( Dagon Comes From The Root Word Dag Meaning '' A Fish '' When The Word Is LQQked At Backwards It Spells The Word '' Dag '' Or Gad - '' God '' And Dagah Meaning '' To Move Rapidly '' The Last Of These Derivations Gave Rise To TheCommon Image Of '' Dagon '' As A Mermaid - Half Man , Half Fish '' Dagon Is Also Regarded As The Legendary Inventor Of The Plow . The Christian Use The Fish Symbol , But What They Don't Know Is That It's A Serpent . And It Was Taken From Tama - Re '' Egipt '' To Symbolize The Birtrh Or Return Of Jesus Christ . In The Course Of Precession , About 255 B.C. The Vernal Birthplace Passed Into The Sign Of The Fish , And The Messiah Who Had Been Represented For 2,155 Years , By The Ram Or Lamb Amen - Re Or As The Egiptian Called Him Amun- Ra . The Coming Messiah Is Called '' Dag '' The Fish '' In The Talmud . And He Is Tied Into The Sign Of The Fish , The Sign Of '' Sim , Mah '' Pieces '' The Double Fish Or Pisces Fish Is Of The Piscean Era . In Matthew 28 ; 20 , In Part , Jesus Says ... And I Will Be With You Always , To The End Of The World . '' ;.... This Age Is The End Of The Piscean Era . Moving On Into The Aquarian Age . According To Your Bible In Matthew 14 ; 17 . Jesus Fed His Congregation With 2 Fish , And I Quote '' And They Say Unto Him , We Have Here But Five Loaves And Two Fish .... And He Commanded The Multitude To Sit Down On The Grass And Took The Five Loaves And The Two Fish And LQQking Up To Heaven He Blessed , AndHe Broke And Gave The Loaves To His Disciples To The Multitude '' . These 2 Fish Represent The '' Bulti Fish Which Has A Bright Red Dish Coloration And Rounded In Shape Which Is Why It Was Also Used As A Symbol Of The Sun By The Egiptian . Notice The Waved Lined As Opposed To Scaled . Representing The Fact That The Fish Came To The Surface Of The Waters . Representing Birth . The Double Fish Or Pisces Fish Of The Piscean Era Or Christianity . Also Came From Egipt And Represented The Unity Of Upper And Lower Egipt . This Is Why The Pope Uses The Symbol Of The Fish On His Head .

I know of egyptians having worshipped monothiestic religions twice under the nubian god amun, and then later in atenism which i assume was a push towards the former worship of amun or atleast inspired by it

Thank you for your interesting discourse, IssaEl21...

Thank you for your interesting discourse, IssaEl21...


You Are Welcome

From The Egyptian Book of the Dead:

"This chapter shall be recited by a person purified and washed, one who hath not eaten animal flesh or fish..."

(Plate III, Ch. XXX B, 2 - Rubric)

The priest/astrologers of ancient Egypt were strict vegetarians!!

The ancient Egyptians of Africa believed in a self-existent God who was One Being; who created man and endowed him with an immortal soul over 5,000 years ago...

“The unity of a supreme and self-existent being, his eternity, his almightiness and external reproduction thereby as God; the immortality of the soul, completed by the dogma of punishments and rewards: such is the sublime and persistent base which, notwithstanding all deviations and all mythological embellishments, must secure for the beliefs of the ancient Egyptians a most honorable place among the religions of antiquity.”

(E. de Rouge)

“God is truth and He feedeth thereon. He is the king of truth, and He hath established the Earth thereupon – God is life and through Him only man liveth. He giveth life to man, He breatheth the breath of life into his nostrils – God is father and mother, the father of fathers and the mother of mothers. He begetteth, but was never begotten; He produceth, but was never produced; He begat himself and produced himself. He createth, but was never created; He is the maker of His own form and the fashioner of His own body...”

(The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Papyrus of Ani, transliteration and translation by E.A. Wallis Budge, pp. xcii-xciii)

In Kemet, Nebetcher, was never understood to be only male. The creator was both negative and positive, male and female.

The notion that Neter is a he, is a western Concept, and although Wallis Budge's work is considerable, his approach is hardly wholistic.

From http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ebod/ebod06.htm

THE EGYPTIANS' IDEAS OF GOD

The word 'neter' and its meaning.

To the great and supreme power which made the earth, the heavens, the sea, the sky, men and women, animals, birds, and creeping things, all that is and all that shall be, the Egyptians gave the name "neter." This word survives in the Coptic nuti, but both in the ancient language - and in its younger relative - the exact meaning of the word is lost. M. Pierret, following de Rougé, connects it with the word nuti, and says that it means "renovation," but Brugsch renders it "göttlich," "heilig," "divin," "sacré," and by three Arabic words, which mean "divine," "sacred or set apart," and "holy" respectively.

By a quotation from the stele of Canopus he shows that in Ptolemaic times it meant "holy" or "sacred" when applied to the animals of the gods. Mr. Renoufsays that "the notion expressed by "nutar" as a noun, and "nutra" as an adjective or verb, must be sought in the Coptic nuti, which, in the translation of the Bible, corresponds to the Greek words for "power," "force," "strong," "fortify" and "protect," and he goes on to show that the word "neter" means "strong" or "mighty."

M. Maspero, however, thinks that the Coptic "nomti" has nothing in common with "neter," the Egyptian word for God, and that the passages quoted by Renouf in support of his theory can be otherwise explained. His own opinion is that the signification "strong," if it ever existed, is a derived word, and not an original meaning, and he believes that the word is so old that its first sense is unknown to us.

The fact that the Coptic translators of the Bible used the word "nouti" to express the name of the Supreme Being shows that no other word conveyed to their minds their conception of Him, and supports M. Maspero's views on this point. Another definition of the word given by Brugsch makes it to mean "the active power that produces and creates things in regular recurrence; which bestows new life upon them, and gives back to them their youthful vigor," and he adds that the innate conception of the word completely covers the original meaning of the Greek "fu'sis" and the Latin "natura."

Although fully integrated into the body of modern Egypt, the Copts have survived as a strong religious entity who pride themselves on their contribution to the Christian world. The Coptic church regards itself as a strong defendant of the Christian faith. The Nicene Creed, which is recited in all churches throughout the world, has been authored by one of its favorite sons, Saint Athanasius, the Pope of Alexandria from 327 AD to 373 AD. This status is well deserved, after all, Egypt was the refuge that the holy family sought in its flight from Judea: "When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night and departed for Egypt, and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, "Out of Egypt I called My Son." (Matthew 2:12-23)

From The Egyptian Book of the Dead:

"This chapter shall be recited by a person purified and washed, one who hath not eaten animal flesh or fish..."

(Plate III, Ch. XXX B, 2 - Rubric)

The priest/astrologers of ancient Egypt were strict vegetarians!!

The Ancient Egyptian Concept of God:

"God is one and alone, and none other existeth with Him – God is the One, the One who hath made all things – God is a spirit, a hidden spirit, the spirit of spirits, the great spirit of the Egyptians, the Divine spirit – God is from the beginning, and He hath been from the beginning.

He hath existed from old and was when nothing else had being. He existed when nothing else existed, and what existeth He created after He had come into being.

He is the Father of beginnings – God is the Eternal One, He is eternal and infinite and endureth forever, and yes – God is hidden and no man knoweth His form. No man hath been able to seek out His likeness; He is hidden to the gods and men, and He is a mystery unto His creatures.

No man knoweth how to know Him – His name remaineth hidden; His name is a mystery unto His children. His names are innumerable; they are manifold and none knoweth their number.

God is truth and He feedeth thereon. He is the king of truth, and He hath established the Earth thereupon – God is life and through Him only man liveth. He giveth life to man, He breatheth the breath of life into his nostrils – God is father and mother, the father of fathers and the mother of mothers. He begetteth, but was never begotten; He produceth, but was never produced; He begat himself and produced himself. He createth, but was never created; He is the maker of His own form and the fashioner of His own body.

God Himself is existence, He endureth without increase or diminution, He multiplieth Himself millions of times, and He is manifold in forms and in numbers – God hath made the Universe, and He created all that therein is; He is the Creator of what is in this world, and of what was, of what is, and of what shall be. He is the Creator of the Heavens, and of the Earth, and of the deep, and of the water, and of the mountains.

God hath stretched out the Heavens and founded the Earth – what His heart conceived straightway came to pass, and when He hath spoken, it cometh to pass and endureth forever – God is the father of the gods; He fashioned men and formed the gods – God is merciful unto those who reverence Him, and He heareth him that calleth upon Him. God knoweth him that acknowledges Him; He rewardeth him that serveth Him, and He protecteth him that followeth Him."

(This is by far the best definition of God that I have ever read, Music Producer.)

Wow, AQI, this is a AWESOME thread!!

How did I manage to miss it?


Anyways, SHUQ'RAN for bumping it up, and also for bringing it to the attention of certain detractors.

SALAAM.

Afwan aqi...still :laugh: at your apropo description...

Ma Salaam.

This statement:

The Ancient Egyptian Concept of God:

"God is one and alone, and none other existeth with Him – God is the One, the One who hath made all things – God is a spirit, a hidden spirit, the spirit of spirits, the great spirit of the Egyptians, the Divine spirit – God is from the beginning, and He hath been from the beginning.

Is the same one as "LA ILAH ILLAH ALLAHI, WA DAHU LA SHARIYKY ALLAHU" from the QUR'AN:

"There is no God Save ALLAH; He is Alone, and no Partners has He".

SALAAM & HOTEP

Naam, aqi...al hamdu-l-'lah.

AMUN-RE

A bearded man wearing a cap surmounted by two tall plumes. A ram, a ram headed man, or a ram headed Sphinx. Self-created at the beginning of time - linked to the Zep Tepi - believed to be the physical father of all Pharaohs.

Some assume that Amun was a relatively modern god within the context of ancient Egyptian religion. His worship at Thebes, where the earliest known Temple dedicated to him was located, is only documented from the 11th Dynasty onward. He gained most of his prestige after replacing the war god Montu as the principle god of Thebes - now Luxor - during Egypt's New Kingdom, when he was recognized as the King of Gods.

At that time, because of Egypt's influence in the world, he actually became a universal god. In fact, by the 25th Dynasty, Amun-Re was even the chief god of the Nubian Kingdom of Napata, and by the Ptolemic, or Greek period, he was regarded as the Egyptian equivalent of Zeus. However, he is actually mentioned in the pyramid text from the Old Kingdom (5th Dynasty, Unas - line 558), which show him to be a primeval deity and a symbol of creative force. This text seems to assign great antiquity to his existence.

Amun-Re grew so important spiritually and politically by the time of the New Kingdom that Egypt became something of a theocracy. At the apex of his worship, Egyptian religion approached monotheism. The other gods became mere symbols of his power, or manifestations of Amun-Re. In essence, he became the one and only supreme deity.

He was one of the eight Heh gods of the Ogdoad of Hermopolis, where his original consort was Amaunet (or "Ament"). His worship may have originated at Hermopolis, but another possibility was that he functioned early on as a less prominent god at Thebes, where he eventually flourished. The Nubians, however, believed that he originated at Gebel Barkal, located in the modern north of the Sudan.

In the middle of the 16th Dynasty, with the expulsion of the Hyksos rulers of Egypt, Amun's growth was accelerated due to the vindication of both Egyptian power and Amun-Re as a protector of both the Egyptian state and the Monarchy. At that time, temples were built and dedicated to Amun throughout Egypt, including the Luxor Temple and the Great Temple at Karnak. His importance during this and later periods is evidenced by the grander and extravagance of these temples. They were enlarged and enriched over the centuries by rulers of Egypt who were eager to express their devotion to Amun-Re.

In fact, his growth to that of a national god mirrored the growth of Thebes in importance. This growth was accelerated when Amenemhet I took control of the thrown at Thebes, and founded the 12th Dynasty. However, the apex of his worship probably occurred during the New Kingdom onward at Thebes, where the important Opet festival was dedicated to Amun. During the Opet festival, the statue of Amun was conveyed by boat from the temple of Karnak to Luxor in order to celebrate Amun's marriage to Mut in his aspect of Ka-mut-ef (literally "bull of his mother"). In this capacity, Amun was recognized for his procreative function. Together, Amun and Mut conceived their son, Khonsu, a moon god, to make of the Thebes Triad.

The sacred animal of Amun was originally the Goose, and like Geb, he was sometimes known as the "Great Cackler." Later, Amun was more closely associated with the Ram, a symbol of fertility. The sacred animal of Amun was originally the Goose. At various times he also sometimes appears as a man with the head of a frog, the head of a uraeus, the head of a crocodile, or as an ape. However, when depicted as a king, he wears the crown of two plumes, a symbol borrowed from Min, and often sits on a throne. In this form, he is one of nine deities who compose the company of gods of Amen-Ra.

In the Greek period (and somewhat earlier, in order to ascribe many attributes to Amun-Re, he was sometimes depicted in bronze with the bearded head of a man, the body of a beetle with the wings of a hawk, the legs of a man and the toes and claws of a lion. He was further provided with four hands and arms and four wings. The worship surrounding Amun - and later, Amun-Re - represented one of ancient Egypt's most complex theologies. In his most mature form, Amun-Re became a hidden, secret god. In fact, his name - or at lest the name by which the ancient Egyptians called him - means "the hidden one" or "the secret one" (though there has been speculation that his name is derived from the Libyan word for water, "aman." However, modern context seems to negate this possibility). In reality, however, and according to mythology, both his name and physical appearance were unknown, thus indicating his unknowable essence.

Stated differently, Amun was unknown because he represented absolute holiness, and in this regard, he was different then any other Egyptian deity. So holy was he that he remained independent of the created universe. He was associated with the air as an invisible force, which facilitated his growth as a supreme deity. He was the Egyptian creator deity par excellence, and, according to Egyptian myth, was self-created. It was believed that he could regenerate himself by becoming a snake and shedding his skin. At the same time, he remained apart from creation, totally different from it, and fully independent from it.

However, while hidden, the addition to his name of "Re" revealed the god to humanity. "Re" was the common Egyptian term for the sun, thus making him visible. Hence, Amun-Re combined within himself the two opposites of divinity, the hidden and the revealed. As Amun, he was secret, hidden and mysterious, but as Re, he was visible and revealed. In some respects, this even relates to his association with Ma'at, the Egyptian concept of order and balance, and reflects back upon the ancient Egyptian's concepts of duality.

The secret, or hidden attribute of Amun enabled him to be easily synchronized and associated with other deities. At Thebes, Amun was first identified with Montu, but soon replaced him as the city's protector. His association with Re grew in importance when Amenemhet I moved the capital of Egypt to Itjtawy at the apex of the Nile Delta, where the relationship was probably expedient both theologically and politically. However, this association with Re actually grew as Thebes itself gained importance. Soon, Amun was identified with other gods as well, taking on the names (among others) Amun-Re-Atum, Amun-Re-Montu, Amun-Re-Horakhty and Min-Amun. However, it should be noted that with all of this synchronization, Amun was not absorbed to create a a new god. Instead, there was a unity of divine power with these other gods.

Amun-Re was associated with the Egyptian monarchy, and theoretically, rather than threatening the pharaoh's power, the throne was supported by Amun-Re. The ancient theology made Amun-Re the physical father of the king. Hence, the Pharaoh and Amun-Re enjoyed a symbiotic relationship, with the king deriving power from Amun-Re. In return, the king supported the temples and the worship of Amun. In theory, Amun-Re could even take the form of the king in order to impregnate the chief royal wife with the successor to the throne (first documented during the reign of Hatshepsut during the New Kingdom). Furthermore, according to official state theology during the New Kingdom, Egypt was actually ruled by Amun-Re through the pharaohs, with the god revealing his will through oracles.

In reality, the god did in fact threaten the monarchy, for the cult of Amun-Re became so powerful that its priesthood grew very large and influential, and at one point, priests of the deity actually came to rule Egypt during the 21st Dynasty. At other times, Amun-Re created difficulties for the king, such as in the case of Akhenaten, who sought to change the basic structure of Egyptian religion. In this instance, Amun-Re eventually proved more powerful then the king, for though Akhenaten desperately tried to change the nature of Egyptian religion, for such efforts he himself became the scorn of later pharaohs. After Akhenaten's reign, Egyptian religion almost immediately reverted back to its prior form and to the worship of Amun-Re.

http://www.crystalinks.com/amun.html

The Hymn to The Aten - You make the seed grow in women
and create people





"... You make the seed grow in women and create people from
sperm...."


In my humble opinion, Akhenaten understands, how the Sun is symbolic
of God. Just think on it. Without the Sun, we would be unable to
live!




>
> "ISLAM" LITERALLY MEANS "TO OBEY THE WILL OF GOD".


> > > I BELIEVE THAT AKHENATEN, THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN PHAROAH, WAS
> > A "MUSLIM". OF COURSE, THE PEOPLE DID NOT SPEAK ARABIC, SO THE
> > RELIGION WAS NOT CALLED "ISLAM" BUT, "OBEYING THE WILL OF GOD"
HAS
> > BEEN HERE FROM THE BEGINNING.
> > >
> > > ONE DOES NOT NEED TO FOLLOW THE CULTURE OF THE ARABS TO BE
> > A "MUSLIM". "ISLAM" DID NOT BEGIN 1,400 YEARS AGO!!!
> > >
> > > 019.058
> > > YUSUFALI: Those were some of the prophets on whom Allah did
> bestow
> > His Grace,- of the posterity of Adam, and of those who We
carried
> > (in the Ark) with Noah, and of the posterity of Abraham and
Israel
> > of those whom We guided and chose. Whenever the Signs of (Allah)
> > Most Gracious were rehearsed to them, they would fall down in
> > prostrate adoration and in tears.
> > > PICKTHAL: These are they unto whom Allah showed favour from
> among
> > the prophets, of the seed of Adam and of those whom We carried
(in
> > the ship) with Noah, and of the seed of Abraham and Israel, and
> from
> > among those whom We guided and chose. When the revelations of
the
> > Beneficent were recited unto them, they fell down, adoring and
> > weeping.
> > > SHAKIR: These are they on whom Allah bestowed favors, from
among
> > the prophets of the seed of Adam, and of those whom We carried
> with
> > Nuh, and of the seed of Ibrahim and Israel, and of those whom We
> > guided and chose; when the communications of the Beneficent
Allah
> > were recited to them, they fell down making obeisance and
weeping.
> > >
> > >
> > > The Hymn to The Aten
> > >
> > >
> > > By Akhenaten
> > >http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/saqqara/images/Saqqara/Profiles/Akhenaten.jpg
> > >
> > > Glorious, you rise on the horizon of heaven,
> > >
> > >
> > > O living Aten, creator of life.
> > >
> > >
> > > When you have risen on the Eastern horizon
> > >
> > >
> > > You fill every land with your beauty.
> > >
> > >
> > > You are gorgeous, great and radiant, high over every land.
> > >
> > >
> > > Your rays embrace all the lands that you have made.
> > >
> > >
> > > You are Re and so you reach their boundaries,
> > >
> > >
> > > Limiting them for your beloved Son.
> > >
> > >
> > > Though you are far away, your rays are upon the Earth.
> > >
> > >
> > > Though you are seen, your movement is not.
> > >
> > >
> > > When you set on the Western horizon the land is dark, like
death.
> > >
> > >
> > > Night is spent asleep as in a bedroom with a covered head,
> > >
> > >
> > > One eye does not see the other.
> > >
> > >
> > > If the possessions under their heads were stolen,
> > >
> > >
> > > No one would notice it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Every lion comes out from it's den, and every serpent bites.
> > >
> > >
> > > Darkness descends and the Earth is hushed,
> > >
> > >
> > > Because their maker rests on the horizon.
> > >
> > >
> > > The Earth is illuminated when you rise on the horizon
> > >
> > >
> > > And shine as the Aten in the daytime.
> > >
> > >
> > > You banish the darkness when you cast your rays.
> > >
> > >
> > > The Two Lands celebrate, lively and aroused now that you
> > >
> > >
> > > have awakened them ; with bodies cleansed and clothed
> > >
> > >
> > > they raise their arms to adore your rising.
> > >
> > >
> > > Now the whole land begins to work.
> > >
> > >
> > > All the cattle graze on the fodder, trees and plants grow.
> > >
> > >
> > > Birds fly up from their nests, their wings stretched in praise
> of
> > your spirit.
> > >
> > >
> > > All the flocks gambol on their feet and everything that flies
> > >
> > >
> > > and perches lives because you have arisen for them.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ships sail to the North and South,while roads open at your
> rising.
> > >
> > >
> > > The fish in the river leap before you, for your rays are in
the
> > middle of the sea.
> > >
> > >
> > > You make the seed grow in women and create people from sperm.
> > >
> > >
> > > You feed the Son who lies in his Mother's womb
> > >
> > >
> > > and comfort him to stop his tears.
> > >
> > >
> > > You are the nurse within the womb,who gives breath to all that
> is
> > made.
> > >
> > >
> > > On the day he is born you open his mouth to supply his needs.
> > >
> > >
> > > When the chick in the egg chirps within his shell you give him
> > breath to live,
> > >
> > >
> > > And when his time is ready to break out from the shell
> > >
> > >
> > > he comes to proclaim his birth, walking on his legs.
> > >
> > >
> > > How many are the things you do, although hidden from view,
> > >
> > >
> > > O unique God, without compare.
> > >
> > >
> > > You created the world as you desired,
> > >
> > >
> > > Alone - all people, all cattle, all flocks, everything which
> walks
> > with it's feet on the Earth and everything that flies with it's
> > wings in the air.
> > >
> > >
> > > The Northern lands of Asia, the Southern lands of Africa
> > >
> > >
> > > and the land of Egypt - you have set every person in their
place
> > >
> > >
> > > and you have supplied their needs.
> > >
> > >
> > > Everyone has his food and his allotted lifetime.
> > >
> > >
> > > Tongues differ in their speech, and also characters,
> > >
> > >
> > > For you have differentiated mankind.
> > >
> > >
> > > You created the Nile in the Netherworld.
> > >
> > >
> > > You bring him forth at your will to feed the people,
> > >
> > >
> > > Since you made them for yourself, Lord of all, who toils for
> them,
> > >
> > >
> > > Lord of all lands, the Aten who shines in the daytime, great
in
> > dignity.
> > >
> > >
> > > You make all distant lands live, for you have made a heavenly
> Nile
> > >
> > >
> > > come down for them, to make waves on the mountains like the
sea,
> > >
> > >
> > > to irrigate the fields of their towns.
> > >
> > >
> > > O Lord of eternity, how excellent are your designs - a Nile
from
> > heaven
> > >
> > >
> > > for people of Foreign lands, and all the creatures which walk
> upon
> > their feet and a Nile for Egypt coming from the Netherworld.
> > >
> > >
> > > Your rays suckle every field; when you shine they live and
grow
> > for you.
> > >
> > >
> > > You made the seasons to foster all that is made: Winter to
cool
> > them
> > >
> > >
> > > And Summer that they may feel you.
> > >
> > >
> > > You made a distant sky in which you might shine
> > >
> > >
> > > and to see everything you have made.
> > >
> > >
> > > You are alone, shining as the Living Aten,
> > >
> > >
> > > Risen, dazzling, far and yet near
> > >
> > >
> > > you have millions of manifestations of yourself.
> > >
> > >
> > > Towns, villages, fields, roads and waterways -
> > >
> > >
> > > every eye sees you upon them, for you are the Aten of the
> > daytime...
> > >
> > >
> > > You are my beloved.
> > >
> > >
> > > There is none other that knows you except for your Son,
> > >
> > >
> > > Neferkheperure Waenre, whom you have made wise
> > >
> > >
> > > in your plans and your might.
> > >
> > >
> > > The creatures of the Earth exist in your hand as you have made
> > them;
> > >
> > >
> > > when you rise they live, when you set they die.
> > >
> > >
> > > You yourself are the duration of life, it is by you that men
> live.
> > >
> > >
> > > Eyes may behold your beauty until you set,
> > >
> > >
> > > but when you set in the West all work ceases.
> > >
> > >
> > > When you rise...
> > >
> > >
> > > You raise them up for the Son who came forth from your body,
> > >
> > >
> > > the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, living in Truth,
> > >
> > >
> > > the Lord of the Two Lands Neferkheperure Waenre, Son of Re,
> > >
> > >
> > > living in Truth, Lord of glorious appearings, Akhenaten the
long-
> > lived.
> > >
> > >
> > > And as for the King's Great Wife whom he loves,
> > >
> > >
> > > the mistress of the two lands, Neferneferuaten-Nefertiti,
> > >
> > >
> > > may she live and flourish for ever and ever.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > --------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > solomon = wise
> > > abdul = servant of
> > > Rahman = The Benificent or The Doer of Good
> > > so, the wise servant of, The Doer of Good
> > >
> > > If you take one step towards Him, He runs 2 you!
> > >
> > >

In my humble opinion, Akhenaten understands, how the Sun is symbolic of God. Just think on it. Without the Sun, we would be unable to live!This is el haqq, aqi...

"ISLAM" LITERALLY MEANS "TO OBEY THE WILL OF GOD."The word "Islam" is from the Arabic root silm, which means "to surrender; to submit; to yield; to give one's self up. Thus aslama amrahu ila Allah means "he committed his cause to God," or "he resigned himself to the will of God." "Aslama" alone would mean, "he committed himself to the will of God" or, "he became a Muslim."

The other major shade of meaning in the root silm is "to become reconciled with one another," or "to make peace." Salm means "peace." So does silm, which also means "the religion of Islam." (See Hans Wehr, A Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic (1971), pp.424-25. Imam Raghib says in al-Muiradat fi Gharib al-Qur'an: "Islam, in law, is of two kinds: one is a simple confession with the tongue...the other is that along with confession - there is belief in the heart and a fulfillment in practice, and resignation to God in whatever He brings to pass or decrees." Imam Raghib further says: "Islam means entering into salary, and salary and silm both signify peace."

I BELIEVE THAT AKHENATEN, THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN PHAROAH, WAS A "MUSLIM." OF COURSE, THE PEOPLE DID NOT SPEAK ARABIC, SO THE RELIGION WAS NOT CALLED "ISLAM." BUT "OBEYING THE WILL OF GOD" HAS BEEN HERE FROM THE BEGINNING...Islam is an Arabic word that denotes submission, surrender, and obedience. As a religion, Islam stands for complete submission and obedience to Allah (swt) — that is why it is called Islam. The other literal meaning of the word "Islam" is "peace." This signifies that one can achieve real peace of body and of mind only through submission and obedience to Allah (swt). Such a life of obedience brings peace of the heart and establishes real peace in society at-large.

"Those who believe and whose hearts find comfort in the remembrance of Allah (swt). Indeed! It is in the remembrance of Allah (swt) that hearts can find comfort; Those who believe and do good works — happiness is decreed for them, and an excellent place of return." (Sura 13: 28-29)

ONE DOES NOT NEED TO FOLLOW THE CULTURE OF THE ARABS TO BE A "MUSLIM." "ISLAM" DID NOT BEGIN 1,400 YEARS AGO!!!The African country of Nigeria has more Muslims than the entire Muslim population of the Arab countries combined...and the majority of the world's Muslim population live in Indonesia, which is in Southeast Asia...

The ayah you quote from the various translations is from Sura Al-Maryam. It reads:

"These are the people upon whom Allah bestowed His blessings from among the Prophets of the posterity of Adam, and of the posterity of those whom We carried in the Ark with Noah, and of the posterity of Abraham and Israel (Jacob), and they are of those of whom We guided and chose. When the Signs of the Gracious God were recited unto them, they fell down, prostrating themselves before Allah and weeping."

Some commentators of the Qur'an think that the words, "of the posterity of Adam" refer to Idris, and, "whom we carried in the Ark with Noah" refer to Abraham, and the words, "of the posterity of Abraham, refer to Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob; and the words, "of the posterity of" are understood before the word "Israel" and refer to Moses, Aaron, Zachariah, Yahya and Jesus, all of whom have been mentioned in the preceding verses of the Sura...

Ma Salaam.

Hotep

Before Akhenaten...the one given all the credit for parting from the all complex mystery system of KMT...there were and is more atributes to the incomprehensible "All" mighty as is called the "Creator" of the "All". Concider that "If" there always was such a simple and easy (concept) method of explaning the incomprehensible...then why has it come down to us that there are 99 attributes to the so-called "Name"? What is the difference between this idea that can easily trivilize the concept of the incomprehensible into only the "One"...and the concept of our origenal ancient (KMT) ancestors (http://www.jimloy.com/egypt/gods.htm) who knew full well through experience of thousands of years and inspiration and divine revilations...the proper study (MAAT) and experience tought in the so-called "Temples" of that time...that had meny "Representations" of the same thing only a study in detail of each concept of the "All" that gave them the proper overstanding of "Right Knowledge" that required 40 years for a student to "Master"?? Why was Akhenaten concidered "Crazy" by his own people and called behind his back the "Crazy King" if he was correct in his concepts...that made it easy for todays controlers to corrupt and distort in their favor. Under the proper sircumstances...the western (Indoeuropean) mind is not able to comprihend or sustain the origenal 77 comandments (they can't even keep the little 10 they took) that is the absolute only way to grow spiritualy to the point of "Becoming". The so-called "Greeks" could not do it and oppted to choose the easy (http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/GGGM.html) shorter method introduced by the one Egyptiean king they hold up in soo much favor...Akhenaten. There is soo much to learn and soo little time to learn it espishily if we try and take a "Short-Cut"...then "We" are only "Fooling" our self. After the passing of the so-called king "Akhenaten" every thing that was his was systematicly removed and a return to the proper origenal mystery system that required intence and prolonged (the same system that gave rise to All of the Prophets) "Life" study. It is true that Akhenaten was a initiate from the time he was a child but his level and degree of rank is questionable and he chose to take a shorter route that gave the european their chance to grab a concept that would give them "Power" (http://www.nbufront.org/html/MastersMuseums/DocBen/GGJames/OnGGJamesPhilosophyRel.html) and that is just what they did..."There is only one G-d" is what they declair today but why then are there more "Evil" today than "Ever" before on the "Earth"...and why are they all (The Big Three Religions) at War with each other and "No" end in sight?? This is by no means every thing in a nut shell...only a attempt to share what is known. "People Know Thy Self"

Ase`

"There is only one God" is what they declare today, but why then is there more evil today than ever before on the Earth? And why are they all (The Big Three Religions) at war with each other and no end in sight?Dogma, Moorfius...and dogma is inherently divisive. All religions are but roads to the same Place. It is only when some people say, “My road is the only road” that the pathway to the Place becomes blocked.

The divisions existing between the various roads have been created – to a large extent – by the mind of man, even though many of these roads have been truly divinely inspired. These divisions have caused so much suffering – both on a personal and universal level – that it has become increasingly important for each of us to realize the essential Oneness of it all, no matter what one’s inherited religious dogma is...

Hotep

When we sit only in the company of the "Kemetic-Masters" and are approved by them then there is no need to think that there is something else out side of "Right Knowledge". Words are "Cheep" things espicaly when we don't know what we are saying or who we are saying it to. We don't have to think that we must re-invent something that already exist..."10's of thousands of years before we were even thought of or born. Dogma is an "Illusion" and that is not what is offerd here. All of the Kemetic "Masters" have tought and guided "Us". And some of us are approved by Knowing "Self" and "Others". Proverb: Throw a drowning person a life preserver and it is up to that person to take it...if they don't it is no blaim on you if they drown. None of these things are from some ones imagination...they are only what is "Known". But some will choose to "Debate" even so.

Ase`

Atum and YHVH are one in the same. This begins to show us that Polytheism is wrong. Akhenaten was a practice of Maat (researching ancient text to discover Truth and Origin of Truth). One can see some of the text and ideas Akhenaten discovered from reading the Pyramid Text from which he created the bulk of the GOD that is manifested in the Holy Scriptures.

Atum and YHVH are one in the same...The God-concept may be similar, but they were certainly not one and the same. Atum was one of the most ancient gods in Egypt. According to the priests of Heliopolis, Atum was the first being to emerge from the waters of Nun at the time of creation. He was depicted in art as a man wearing the Double Crown of Upper and Lower Egypt. As such, he is the first living man-god conceived of by the ancient Egyptians. YHVH (i.e., Yahweh), the God of the Jews, is of Hebrew origin...

The God-concept may be similar, but they were certainly not one and the same. Atum was one of the most ancient gods in Egypt. According to the priests of Heliopolis, Atum was the first being to emerge from the waters of Nun at the time of creation. He was depicted in art as a man wearing the Double Crown of Upper and Lower Egypt. As such, he is the first living man-god conceived of by the ancient Egyptians. YHVH (i.e., Yahweh), the God of the Jews, is of Hebrew origin...

True indeed. In Kemetic Cosmology, ATUM corresponds to the active energy that rises out of oblivion, sort of like how fusion energy is generated in a nuclear furnace.

Within man, this is correspondant to the Bio-synaptic energy, that rises and flows from the Spine (DJED).

ATUM has nothing to do with YAHWEH, which is actually not Hebrew in origin, it's Canaanitic. YAHWEH belonged to a pantheon of deities, the same way that ALLAH did.

The Jews simply chose "YAHWEH", along with "EL", and "ADONAI" as their chief deitie(s), much in the same manner that the Arabs chose "ALLAH" as theirs.

ATUM is not a good correlation to YAHWEH. The best correlation between the Kemetic and the Jewish would be ATEN and ADON, especially since both of these are monolatrous deities that represent the physical sun.

This is why it's very important to understand, that ANKHEN-ATEN himself was a Monolatrist (a worshipper of one idol), who worshipped the Physical Sun. That is even what his name means.

He got this practice from the Mitanni Hittites, whom his wife Tadukhipa (whom he renamed "Nefer-Neferu Atenet", or Nefertiti for short) and his host of Mitanni consorts and concubines.

This belief in ATEN (The word "ATEN" means the "solar disk" in Kemau) was unseen and unheard of in Kemet prior to Ankhen-Aten's practice of it, because it was a derivative of the Hittite Solar God Shamesh (Shams, in Arabic).

PEACE

Shukrin aqi for your enlightening points d' appui...

The God-concept may be similar, but they were certainly not one and the same. Atum was one of the most ancient gods in Egypt. According to the priests of Heliopolis, Atum was the first being to emerge from the waters of Nun at the time of creation. He was depicted in art as a man wearing the Double Crown of Upper and Lower Egypt. As such, he is the first living man-god conceived of by the ancient Egyptians. YHVH (i.e., Yahweh), the God of the Jews, is of Hebrew origin...

Hosea:13:4: Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.


Why would a people not from Egypt write those words in their Bible?

When studying the hidden history it becomes clear that the settlements of Jerusalem and Israel were an extension of the Kemet Empire. The people that occupy these areas today are not the original Hebrews.

Ezek:7:24: Wherefore I will bring the worst of the heathen, and they shall possess their houses: I will also make the pomp of the strong to cease; and their holy places shall be defiled.

The original Hebrew were a mixture of African tribes that followed a great African leader into the re-establishment of an ancient monotheistic GOD named Atum, now referred to as Aten to eventually evolve into YHVH, EL and Adon to eventually represent the entire pantheon of Kemet theology.

As the Empire became divided between a Monotheistic Government and a Polytheistic Government the Monotheistic sect was pulling to much wealth from the whole of the Empire of Kemet. Thus Lord-Ay after the death of Akhenaten began dispersing the Monotheistic Capital of Akhetaten to various locations. One of those locations was Israel and Jerusalem, but the citizens could not enter what is now Israel and Jerusalem until the army of Egypt was reestablished and built back up to its normal strength because the Apiru occupied the regain. The Monotheist stayed in Median for 40 years which is where the 40 years of wondering in the desert comes from.

This is why it's very important to understand, that ANKHEN-ATEN himself was a Monolatrist (a worshipper of one idol), who worshipped the Physical Sun. That is even what his name means.

Akhenaten evolved his concept into a hidden GOD, the sun was only a representation of his conceptual all powerful GOD. In reading books about Akhenaten one sees Akhenaten trying to evolve his GOD into the unseen and unformed having no image. The problem Akhenaten ran into is the entire Kemet language base was based upon the Kemet gods. Basically the language was not advanced enough for Akhenaten to reflect his full idea.

There is in existence several versions of the Hymn to Aten in which the reader can follow the pattern of Akhenaten re-writing the hymn in ways that removes any reflections of the Kemet gods to eventually refine the Hymn in a way that gives GOD no image.

Akhenaten created a GOD who was hidden behind the sun, the hidden GOD of Supreme Power which is the same GOD that is manifested in the Hebrew Scriptures which is the GOD Akhenaten was advancing towards.

Many have confused this with sun worship.

Hosea 13:4 - "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me."

Why would a people not from Egypt write those words in their Bible?Hosea was a prophet who lived and prophesied just before the destruction of Israel in 722 BC. He preached to the northern kingdom. Throughout the book you will see that he refers to Israel and Ephraim. Ephraim was the largest tribe in Israel and sometimes the whole nation was referred to as Ephraim. Here is Hosea 13:1-11, under the heading, Israel Is Doomed. The Biblical text that you proffered is emboldened:

The Lord said:

"When your leaders spoke, everyone in Israel trembled and showed great respect. But you sinned by worshiping Baal, and you were destroyed. Now you continue to sin by designing and making idols of silver in the shape of calves. You are told to sacrifice to these idols - yes, even to kiss them! And so, all of you will vanish like the mist or the dew of early morning, or the husks of grain in the wind or smoke from a chimney.

I, the Lord, have been your God since you were in Egypt. I am the only God you know; the only one who can save. I took care of you in a thirsty desert. I fed you till you were satisfied, and then you became proud and forgot about me. Now I will attack like a lion; ambush you like a leopard, and rip you apart like a bear robbed of her cubs. I will gnaw on your bones, as though I was a lion or some other wild animal. Israel you are done for. Don't expect help from me. You wanted a king and rulers. Where is your king now? What cities have have rulers? In my anger, I gave you a king; in my fury, I took him away."

When studying the hidden history it becomes clear that the settlements of Jerusalem and Israel were an extension of the Kemet Empire. The people that occupy these areas today are not the original Hebrews.What is the source of your "hidden history"?

This belief in ATEN (The word "ATEN" means the "solar disk" in Kemau) was unseen and unheard of in Kemet prior to Ankhen-Aten's practice of it, because it was a derivative of the Hittite Solar God Shamesh (Shams, in Arabic).

The Egyptians where using the Sun Disk icon to represent gods whey before Akhenaten.
It was used to represent Ra(Re), Atum(Aten), Horakhty and Khepri.

You seem to be in agreement with white people in believing that knowledge, language, civilization and religion came from Thrace to Macedonia to Hittites to eventually work its way to Kemet. This is not the way History dictates it occurring. A true study of History reveals knowledge, language; civilization and religion came from the people of Kemet first and spread throughout the region. It actually can be traced as starting from Ethiopia.

I will do a Hebrew word analysis on Hosea 13:4.


What is the source of your "hidden history"?

Archeologist who are starting to look at Kemet History and Biblical information for its face value. I have a post called Egypt in which I list several books.

The Egyptians where using the Sun Disk icon to represent gods whey before Akhenaten.
It was used to represent Ra(Re), Atum(Aten), Horakhty and Khepri.

The Neteru that you mention here did indeed have solar depictions as part of their symbology. However, they also had human and animal characteristics (typical for a belief in Totemism). Just as with the human and animal personages, the sun was SYMBOLIC and METAPHORICAL, based on what the deity was supposed to represent within the Cosmology.

RA was never meant to be the sun, nor was KEPHERA. These deities represented the harnessing of energy within man and nature, respectively.

That, however, is a HUGE difference from ATEN meaning "THE SUN" as a grammatical word, and also being depicted as THE SUN. ATEN has no other image other than THE SUN.

THE SUN is not the creator of the universe. It's barely the creator of this solar System.

ANKHEN-ATEN was a monolater: The believer in a physical idol, with no metaphorical value.

Do you understand this, yes or no?

You seem to be in agreement with white people in believing that knowledge, language, civilization and religion came from Thrace to Macedonia to Hittites to eventually work its way to Kemet.

You're talking non-sense as usual. I agree with White people about NOTHING.

That's only you, reading from the Books of white jews and spouting their rhetoric.

Kemet, as with all other ancient Black nations, was always Syntheistic and Cosmological in origin.

Besides, your history is totally wrong. The hittites did not receive their religion from Macedonia, as Macedonia at the time was largely atheist.

Get your head out of the Bible, and start learning some conventional history, and not spouting bits and pieces of it, as it suits you and your twisted belief in the Bible.

This is not the way History dictates it occurring. A true study of History reveals knowledge, language; civilization and religion came from the people of Kemet first and spread throughout the region. It actually can be traced as starting from Ethiopia.

What on earth are you talking about? Talking to yourself again, I see.

Please QUOTE where I said any such thing otherwise.

No one is doubting where language and civilization came from. We are speaking about the idol-worshipping antics of your "lord and savior" ANKHEN-ATEN, who worshipped a White Hittite God, and lusted after White Hittite Women.

Please stop adding arguments where there are none.

Please QUOTE where I said any such thing otherwise.

You just said it again in this statement…..

No one is doubting where language and civilization came from. We are speaking about the idol-worshipping antics of your "lord and savior" ANKHEN-ATEN, who worshipped a White Hittite God, and lusted after White Hittite Women.

Akhenaten and his conceived religion is and was of Kemet theology and moves Kemet away from worshipping idols. I guest know because the earth is starting to reveal her secrets as to Kemet and the Holy Scriptures we will start deny Akhenaten as even being an African Egyptian. I guess know we will even start ministering that Akhenaten was white or shall we say Asiatic.

We will resort to anything to keep ourselves away from the GOD of the Old Testament. Wheal, to each his own. Just as Kemet became divided between Monotheism and Polytheism the descendants of Kemet continue to be the same way today.

And by the way Akhenaten is not my LORD and Saviour, the GOD that revealed Himself to Akhenaten is my LORD and Saviour.

This is the problem with ATR and Metu Neter, it leads to Monotheism and that’s where you stop believing.

It was Kemet African people that wrote the Holy Scriptures. I know this because the Egyptian language was the only language that existed in those days that was advanced enough to transmit the ideas.

Even in the heretic Egyptian script you can see the resemblance between Hebrew letters today.

The name Aten is simply a corruption for Atum. Atum is not a reference to the sun.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/atum.htm

We were all Monotheist first.

Whatever. I love how you twist people's words around, to make them fit what you want them to mean, while ignoring everything else.

That's precisely why I stopped talking to you before, and why others here have done the same.

Guess I'll go back to what I know best, and leave you to your idol worship of the Sun.

PEACE

By the way, you really need to study up on Kemetic, and stop using your Bible as the standard of measurement:

The name Aten is simply a corruption for Atum. Atum is not a reference to the sun.

WRONG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atum

Atum (alternatively spelt Tem, Temu, Tum, and Atem) is an early deity in Egyptian mythology, whose cult centred on the Ennead of Heliopolis. Originally associated with the earth, Atum gradually became considered to be the sun, as it passes the horizon. The separateness of the two instances per day that this occurs, led to the aspect of Atum that was young, namely the rising sun, becoming considered a separate god, named Nefertum (literally meaning young Atum), and consequently Atum became mainly understood as the setting sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten

Aten is a creator of the universe in ancient Egyptian mythology, usually regarded as a sun god represented by the sun's disk. His worship (Atenism) was instituted as the basis for the mostly monotheistic — in fact, monistic — religion of Amenhotep IV, who took the name Akhenaten. The worship of Aten ceased shortly after Akhenaten's death.

ANKHEN-ATEN was always a monolator, a worshipper of one supreme IDOL.

It's interesting that you say that "ATEN" is a "corruption" of ATUM......Why would you concern yourself with the worship of a corruption?

But then, I suppose that's to be expected, since you do believe in the Bible and all. :?:

Shukrin aqi...back to the thread topic:

The One-God Concept of the Ancient Egyptians of Africa

From the attributes of God set forth in Egyptian texts of all periods, the eminent Egyptologists, Drs. H. Brugsch and E. de Rouge, have come to the opinion that the dwellers of the Nile Valley – from earliest times – knew and worshipped one God; nameless, incomprehensible, and eternal...

In 1860 de Rouge wrote:

“The unity of a supreme and self-existent being, his eternity, his almightiness and external reproduction thereby as God; the immortality of the soul, completed by the dogma of punishments and rewards: such is the sublime and persistent base which, notwithstanding all deviations and all mythological embellishments, must secure for the beliefs of the ancient Egyptians a most honorable place among the religions of antiquity.”

Nine years later he developed this view, and discussed the difficulty of reconciling the belief in the unity of God with the polytheism which existed in Egypt from the earliest times, and he repeated his conviction that the Egyptians believed in a self-existent God who was One Being, who had created man, and who had endowed him with an immortal soul...

In fact, Dr. de Rouge amplifies what the famous French Egyptologist Champollion wrote in 1839:

“The Egyptian religion is a pure monotheism, which manifested itself externally by a symbolic polytheism.”

M. Pierret, in his book, The Egyptian Pantheon, adopts the view that the texts show us that the Egyptians believed in One Infinite and Eternal God who was without a second, and he repeats Champollion’s dictum. But the most ardent supporter of the monotheistic theory is Dr. Brugsch, who has collected a number of striking passages from the texts, one of which is The Egyptian Book of the Dead, the holy book of the ancient Egyptians...

It was written circa 1500 BC, but historians say there are texts which are known to have existed in revised editions and to have been in use among the ancient Egyptians as early as 4500 BC, some 5,000 years before the advent of Christianity. A profound excerpt from one of the passages reads as follows:

“God is one and alone, and none other existeth with Him – God is the One, the One who hath made all things – God is a spirit, a hidden spirit, the spirit of spirits, the great spirit of the Egyptians, the Divine spirit – God is from the beginning, and He hath been from the beginning...

He hath existed from old and was when nothing else had being. He existed when nothing else existed, and what existeth He created after He had come into being...

He is the Father of beginnings – God is the Eternal One, He is eternal and infinite and endureth forever, and yes – God is hidden and no man knoweth His form. No man hath been able to seek out His likeness; He is hidden to the gods and men, and He is a mystery unto His creatures...

No man knoweth how to know Him – His name remaineth hidden; His name is a mystery unto His children. His names are innumerable; they are manifold and none knoweth their number...

God is truth and He feedeth thereon. He is the king of truth, and He hath established the Earth thereupon – God is life and through Him only man liveth. He giveth life to man, He breatheth the breath of life into his nostrils – God is father and mother, the father of fathers and the mother of mothers. He begetteth, but was never begotten; He produceth, but was never produced; He begat himself and produced himself. He createth, but was never created; He is the maker of His own form and the fashioner of His own body.

God Himself is existence, He endureth without increase or diminution, He multiplieth Himself millions of times, and He is manifold in forms and in numbers – God hath made the Universe, and He created all that therein is; He is the Creator of what is in this world, and of what was, of what is, and of what shall be. He is the Creator of the Heavens, and of the Earth, and of the deep, and of the water, and of the mountains.

God hath stretched out the Heavens and founded the Earth – what His heart conceived straightway came to pass, and when He hath spoken, it cometh to pass and endureth forever – God is the father of the gods; He fashioned men and formed the gods – God is merciful unto those who reverence Him, and He heareth him that calleth upon Him. God knoweth him that acknowledges Him; He rewardeth him that serveth Him, and He protecteth him that followeth Him.”

(The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Papyrus of Ani, transliteration and translation by E.A. Wallis Budge, pp. xcii-xciii)

This profound passage, written thousands of years before the advent of Christianity, proves – beyond a doubt – that the ancient Egyptians of Africa believed in a self-existent God who was One Being; who created man and endowed him with an immortal soul...

Whatever. I love how you twist people's words around, to make them fit what you want them to mean, while ignoring everything else.

That's precisely why I stopped talking to you before, and why others here have done the same.

Guess I'll go back to what I know best, and leave you to your idol worship of the Sun.

PEACE
No matter how you try to twist my religion and faith, to bad I have a Book that defines what I believe. It was written and conceptualized by a great and glorious African King called Akhenaten when he was enlightened to advance the people of GOD, the people of Kemet. And yes some resisted and some followed.

Deut:4:19: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

Deut:17:3: And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;


What you are doing today was predicted almost 4000 years ago.

By the way a question continues to stand:

Hosea:13:4: Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.


Why would a people not from Egypt write something like that passage in their religious Book?

Aqil says it is translated wrong, but I suspect a Hebrew word for word analysis will disprove this. How do you answer the question?

Shukrin aqi...back to the thread topic:

The One-God Concept of the Ancient Egyptians of Africa

From the attributes of God set forth in Egyptian texts of all periods, the eminent Egyptologists, Drs. H. Brugsch and E. de Rouge, have come to the opinion that the dwellers of the Nile Valley – from earliest times – knew and worshipped one God; nameless, incomprehensible, and eternal...

In 1860 de Rouge wrote:

“The unity of a supreme and self-existent being, his eternity, his almightiness and external reproduction thereby as God; the immortality of the soul, completed by the dogma of punishments and rewards: such is the sublime and persistent base which, notwithstanding all deviations and all mythological embellishments, must secure for the beliefs of the ancient Egyptians a most honorable place among the religions of antiquity.”

Nine years later he developed this view, and discussed the difficulty of reconciling the belief in the unity of God with the polytheism which existed in Egypt from the earliest times, and he repeated his conviction that the Egyptians believed in a self-existent God who was One Being, who had created man, and who had endowed him with an immortal soul...

In fact, Dr. de Rouge amplifies what the famous French Egyptologist Champollion wrote in 1839:

“The Egyptian religion is a pure monotheism, which manifested itself externally by a symbolic polytheism.”

M. Pierret, in his book, The Egyptian Pantheon, adopts the view that the texts show us that the Egyptians believed in One Infinite and Eternal God who was without a second, and he repeats Champollion’s dictum. But the most ardent supporter of the monotheistic theory is Dr. Brugsch, who has collected a number of striking passages from the texts, one of which is The Egyptian Book of the Dead, the holy book of the ancient Egyptians...

It was written circa 1500 BC, but historians say there are texts which are known to have existed in revised editions and to have been in use among the ancient Egyptians as early as 4500 BC, some 5,000 years before the advent of Christianity. A profound excerpt from one of the passages reads as follows:

“God is one and alone, and none other existeth with Him – God is the One, the One who hath made all things – God is a spirit, a hidden spirit, the spirit of spirits, the great spirit of the Egyptians, the Divine spirit – God is from the beginning, and He hath been from the beginning...

He hath existed from old and was when nothing else had being. He existed when nothing else existed, and what existeth He created after He had come into being...

He is the Father of beginnings – God is the Eternal One, He is eternal and infinite and endureth forever, and yes – God is hidden and no man knoweth His form. No man hath been able to seek out His likeness; He is hidden to the gods and men, and He is a mystery unto His creatures...

No man knoweth how to know Him – His name remaineth hidden; His name is a mystery unto His children. His names are innumerable; they are manifold and none knoweth their number...

God is truth and He feedeth thereon. He is the king of truth, and He hath established the Earth thereupon – God is life and through Him only man liveth. He giveth life to man, He breatheth the breath of life into his nostrils – God is father and mother, the father of fathers and the mother of mothers. He begetteth, but was never begotten; He produceth, but was never produced; He begat himself and produced himself. He createth, but was never created; He is the maker of His own form and the fashioner of His own body.

God Himself is existence, He endureth without increase or diminution, He multiplieth Himself millions of times, and He is manifold in forms and in numbers – God hath made the Universe, and He created all that therein is; He is the Creator of what is in this world, and of what was, of what is, and of what shall be. He is the Creator of the Heavens, and of the Earth, and of the deep, and of the water, and of the mountains.

God hath stretched out the Heavens and founded the Earth – what His heart conceived straightway came to pass, and when He hath spoken, it cometh to pass and endureth forever – God is the father of the gods; He fashioned men and formed the gods – God is merciful unto those who reverence Him, and He heareth him that calleth upon Him. God knoweth him that acknowledges Him; He rewardeth him that serveth Him, and He protecteth him that followeth Him.”

(The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Papyrus of Ani, transliteration and translation by E.A. Wallis Budge, pp. xcii-xciii)

This profound passage, written thousands of years before the advent of Christianity, proves – beyond a doubt – that the ancient Egyptians of Africa believed in a self-existent God who was One Being; who created man and endowed him with an immortal soul...
That is what I been saying all along.

What do you think of the Metu Neter and how it causes us to go back to worshipping the many gods of Egypt?

By the way, you really need to study up on Kemetic, and stop using your Bible as the standard of measurement:



WRONG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atum

Atum (alternatively spelt Tem, Temu, Tum, and Atem) is an early deity in Egyptian mythology, whose cult centred on the Ennead of Heliopolis. Originally associated with the earth, Atum gradually became considered to be the sun, as it passes the horizon. The separateness of the two instances per day that this occurs, led to the aspect of Atum that was young, namely the rising sun, becoming considered a separate god, named Nefertum (literally meaning young Atum), and consequently Atum became mainly understood as the setting sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten

Aten is a creator of the universe in ancient Egyptian mythology, usually regarded as a sun god represented by the sun's disk. His worship (Atenism) was instituted as the basis for the mostly monotheistic — in fact, monistic — religion of Amenhotep IV, who took the name Akhenaten. The worship of Aten ceased shortly after Akhenaten's death.

ANKHEN-ATEN was always a monolator, a worshipper of one supreme IDOL.

It's interesting that you say that "ATEN" is a "corruption" of ATUM......Why would you concern yourself with the worship of a corruption?

But then, I suppose that's to be expected, since you do believe in the Bible and all. :?:

Matter of fact, this info is so good, I think it deserves its own thread. :idea:

By the way, you really need to study up on Kemetic, and stop using your Bible as the standard of measurement:



WRONG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atum

Atum (alternatively spelt Tem, Temu, Tum, and Atem) is an early deity in Egyptian mythology, whose cult centred on the Ennead of Heliopolis. Originally associated with the earth, Atum gradually became considered to be the sun, as it passes the horizon. The separateness of the two instances per day that this occurs, led to the aspect of Atum that was young, namely the rising sun, becoming considered a separate god, named Nefertum (literally meaning young Atum), and consequently Atum became mainly understood as the setting sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten

Aten is a creator of the universe in ancient Egyptian mythology, usually regarded as a sun god represented by the sun's disk. His worship (Atenism) was instituted as the basis for the mostly monotheistic — in fact, monistic — religion of Amenhotep IV, who took the name Akhenaten. The worship of Aten ceased shortly after Akhenaten's death.

ANKHEN-ATEN was always a monolator, a worshipper of one supreme IDOL.

It's interesting that you say that "ATEN" is a "corruption" of ATUM......Why would you concern yourself with the worship of a corruption?

But then, I suppose that's to be expected, since you do believe in the Bible and all. :?:

It's interesting that you say that "ATEN" is a "corruption" of ATUM......Why would you concern yourself with the worship of a corruption?

That is in reference to the spelling, the concept of the two GODs is the same.

I would advise you to use references that are not of a global and shallow point of view.

You recognize GOD through studying the full attributes / history of that GOD.

We know that Allah and YH are one in the same, How?

We know that Atum and Aten are one in the same, How?

Study each deified names history and claim.

You have proffered another falsehood dude...I never said the verse was "translated wrong." Here is the transcript of our dialogue:

Hosea 13:4 - "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me."

Why would a people not from Egypt write those words in their Bible?Hosea was a prophet who lived and prophesied just before the destruction of Israel in 722 BC. He preached to the northern kingdom. Throughout the book you will see that he refers to Israel and Ephraim. Ephraim was the largest tribe in Israel and sometimes the whole nation was referred to as Ephraim. Here is Hosea 13:1-11, under the heading, Israel Is Doomed. The Biblical text that you proffered is emboldened:

"The Lord said:

'When your leaders spoke, everyone in Israel trembled and showed great respect. But you sinned by worshiping Baal, and you were destroyed. Now you continue to sin by designing and making idols of silver in the shape of calves. You are told to sacrifice to these idols - yes, even to kiss them! And so, all of you will vanish like the mist or the dew of early morning, or the husks of grain in the wind or smoke from a chimney.

I, the Lord, have been your God since you were in Egypt. I am the only God you know; the only one who can save. I took care of you in a thirsty desert. I fed you till you were satisfied, and then you became proud and forgot about me. Now I will attack like a lion; ambush you like a leopard, and rip you apart like a bear robbed of her cubs. I will gnaw on your bones, as though I was a lion or some other wild animal. Israel you are done for. Don't expect help from me. You wanted a king and rulers. Where is your king now? What cities have have rulers? In my anger, I gave you a king; in my fury, I took him away.'"

What do you think of the Metu Neter and how it causes us to go back to worshipping the many gods of Egypt?I have wondered about this myself although I have not read the book. Is this true?

I had someone try to explain that there is one supreme diety but all of the other gods/idols are still worshipped. The way she explained it was very unclear to me. She also made a shrine out of a Heineken bottle so I stopped listening to her. Can someone provide me with a better explanation?

I have seen Bro Aqil's posts on the one-god concept which I am familiar with. Does the Metu Neter fall in line with this concept?

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]I have wondered about this myself although I have not read the book. Is this true?

Of course not. I have been a practicioner of Metu Neter and Sheta'ut Neter for over a decade now.

What we learn with any ATR, and this one in particluar, is to move away from the silly modes of thinking, with regards to seeing the Divine as either Mono or Poly, as they are nothing more than Euro-spawned modalities.

I had someone try to explain that there is one supreme diety but all of the other gods/idols are still worshipped. The way she explained it was very unclear to me. She also made a shrine out of a Heineken bottle so I stopped listening to her. Can someone provide me with a better explanation?

Please stop listening to such people. For one thing, the Divine is not seen as something to "worship". You won't even find that word being used in Kemetic theology.

I would rather advise that you read both volumes of Metu Neter for yourself, and then ask those of us with experience with this way of life questions as needed.

[quote]I have seen Bro Aqil's posts on the one-god concept which I am familiar with. Does the Metu Neter fall in line with this concept?[QUOTE]

Yes. The one-ness of the Divine is the basis of Metu Neter, as it is stated within the texts of the PERT EM HERU.

HOTEP

Please stop listening to such people.Trust me, I did.

I would rather advise that you read both volumes of Metu Neter for yourself, and then ask those of us with experience with this way of life questions as needed.I don't see myself doing that anytime soon, which I why I am asking people that practice. I have read up on a little of the history of the founder of Ausar Auset though.

Yes. The one-ness of the Divine is the basis of Metu Neter, as it is stated within the texts of the PERT EM HERU.So are there other deities involved?

Trust me, I did.

Good to know.

I don't see myself doing that anytime soon, which I why I am asking people that practice. I have read up on a little of the history of the founder of Ausar Auset though.

Can I ask why you choose not to?

So are there other deities involved?

Of course, but in order to have it all put into perspective, you need to have an understanding of how ATR's work in terms of Syntheistic Cosmology.

There are no "other deities" outside of the One deity, Because all the deities are the one deity.

PEACE

I have wondered about this myself although I have not read the book. Is this true?

I had someone try to explain that there is one supreme diety but all of the other gods/idols are still worshipped. The way she explained it was very unclear to me. She also made a shrine out of a Heineken bottle so I stopped listening to her. Can someone provide me with a better explanation?

I have seen Bro Aqil's posts on the one-god concept which I am familiar with. Does the Metu Neter fall in line with this concept?
I have the book and I have read vol 1 when so many members kept throwing it up in my face I had to actually purchase the book to see for myself. Now that I have the book and have read the book, those same members have taken a back seat to debate it.

The Author of the Metu Neter simply mixes modern day Quabalah(Kabbalah), Hinduism and Egyptian pantheons to replace the Hebrew letters found in Kabbalah and Jewish Mysticism in building the Spheres of different levels of being. This exact same concept of a Tree of Spheres of being can be found in Quabalah, the method of meditation can be found in Hinduism. The author proclaims all of this was originally practiced by the people of Kemet. The problem with this is the people of Kemet thoroughly and meticulously recorded their religious beliefs and understanding, not once has a resemblance of this Tree of Spheres of different levels of existence been found in ancient Egyptian text nor an elusion to methods of meditation.

In my study of all of this one can easily conclude what occurred with Kemet.
The oldest creation story is Atum. Atum is the Supreme Being that created sub gods (Hosts of Heaven, Sons of GOD). Over time man began to error in serving, praising, worshiping and uplifting the sub gods. This is the Theology of the entire Old Testament and it is the exact same occurrence that can be found in Kemet history.

The Holy Scriptures are rejected because the descendants of Kemet have been prejudiced and brain washed to believe it is not our GOD. The heathens do this because they know and understand that as long as the descendants of Kemet reject their own GOD they will reign in the earth just as it is this day.

There is no dark skinned nation on earth that is stable, secure and ran by a fully intact and functional government. One is forced to step back and ask why is this? We are older than the white man, so why can’t we establish a working nation?

One discovers the answers to these questions by reading and studying the Bible.

The studiers of the Metu Neter from there religious information can not tell you what happen to the people of Kemet and this Great Empire, where did we go, where are we at, who we are and most of all how we were conquered and why.

The studiers of the Metu Neter from there religious information can not tell you what happen to the people of Kemet and this Great Empire, where did we go, where are we at, who we are and most of all how we were conquered and why.

Yet another outlandish lie, and from one who has never even been to the land in question, nor to surrounding lands.

The people of Kemet migrated into various parts of Africa, along the eastern coast and the interior--back to the ANU, from which they came.

It was from some of these very people, that I learned about Metu Neter to begin with........Not from a book, like some people I know :rolleyes:

The Nubians in present-day Upper Egypt, and Northern Sudan and Chad still speak and read Kemau, write the Heiro's and live Kemetic customs. They DO NOT uphold the Bible, nor any aspect thereof. In fact, they openly reject anything Biblical, including any and all aspects of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

These people have been forced off of their land by the Egyptian government, because they make the claim to be the true inheritors of the land of the Pharoahs, not the present-day Greco-Arab rulers.

These people are readily able to tell their (our) story, from beginning to end, of Kemetic theology, the conquests, the linneages, etc. I let these people speak for themselves, and not some hook-nosed Jew, some fat Arab, or some British aristocrat, all of whom feel free to distort history in the name of "God" as they see fit.

Unless you have been to this land, and met these people, you nor anyone else are not in any position to speak on something that you have no knowledge of, outside of some Biblical fairy tale.

Can I ask why you choose not to?I don't choose not to, I just haven't chosen to do so. That is a little different. But probably for the same reason(s) I haven't read every word in the Old Testament.

Of course, OK, that is interesting. It is not an "of course" in my mind, which is why I asked.

but in order to have it all put into perspective, you need to have an understanding of how ATR's work in terms of Syntheistic Cosmology.
There are no "other deities" outside of the One deity, Because all the deities are the one deity.Well if I do not practice an ATR then that won't be my perspective, will it? This sounds similar to Christians who say the trinity is all one. They make the same argument, that you have to have the proper perspective to understand this. None of our religious traditions are iron clad.

I am a little curious, though, why the Metu Neter and Maat and Kwanzaa, all things I would consider a type of neo-Afrocentrism (by that I mean concepts of Black people born in the Americas and not in Africa that are not so ancient), do not seem to be linked directly to what Africans are practicing now (in terms of ATRs, not Islam/Christianity)? Isn't that the point of all of this, to get back to what they are/were doing? Why not be Yoruba or Vodum (sp) instead?

Of course, but in order to have it all put into perspective, you need to have an understanding of how ATR's work in terms of Syntheistic Cosmology.

There are no "other deities" outside of the One deity, Because all the deities are the one deity.

This is the same crap that Muslims use. When I studied the Koran and asked questions most of them would avoid the question with those same types of lines, saying how I needed a teacher in order to get the full understanding or I needed an understand of this in order to understand that and in order to understand that I needed an understanding of this.

I concluded if the book itself can’t teach me and bring me to understanding then I don’t need it.

This is one of the teachings of the Metu Neter and how it justifies worshiping multiple gods:

Take a white light and shine it through a glass prism. All of the colors from that white light going through the prism are a god or aspect of the one white light. Thus from the point of view of theology and GOD being the white light it is ok to worship the many colors coming from the white light because it is all the same.

In my view this is no different from Jesus being a Son of GOD (aspect of GOD) thus it makes it ok to worship Jesus.

All of this is simply crude and weak methods of justifying Polytheism. And what occurs over time with this polytheistic theology is eventually people will start going to war over which aspect or color of the white light is greater, which is exactly what occurred in Egypt, fighting and killing one another over which god is stronger. It is the natural flow in a polytheistic universe.

I don't choose not to, I just haven't chosen to do so. That is a little different. But probably for the same reason(s) I haven't read every word in the Old Testament.

I'm at a loss here. I'm sure the OT is available to you. It's not that hard to obtain a copy of Metu Neter, as you said you know someone who "practices" it.

There is nothing that I or anyone else can tell you about it, that it can't tell you about itself.

It's like asking me what the Matrix is about. Doing so would only ruin the point of the movie. The experience in and of itself is key.

OK, that is interesting. It is not an "of course" in my mind, which is why I asked.

I said "of course", because some folks around here have been misinterpreting something that they refuse to understand to begin with.

Well if I do not practice an ATR then that won't be my perspective, will it? This sounds similar to Christians who say the trinity is all one. They make the same argument, that you have to have the proper perspective to understand this. None of our religious traditions are iron clad.

Perhaps not "iron clad" but definitely stone-clad, since what I speak of, and what the book speaks of, is etched in stone.

I am a little curious, though, why the Metu Neter and Maat and Kwanzaa, all things I would consider a type of neo-Afrocentrism (by that I mean concepts of Black people born in the Americas and not in Africa that are not so ancient), do not seem to be linked directly to what Africans are practicing now (in terms of ATRs, not Islam/Christianity)? Isn't that the point of all of this, to get back to what they are/were doing? Why not be Yoruba or Vodum (sp) instead? [/COLOR]

Firstly, I think it's really unfair to compare Metu Neter and Ma'at to Kwanzaa.

The latter is indeed a neo-Afrocentric term, while the formers are ancient. The Pert Em Heru was not written yesterday, just like the Bible and Qu'ran weren't. In fact the Pert not only pre-dates both of those, but it also serves as the foundation for both.

Second, There are indigenous peoples who practice Metu Neter. See my previous post, where I had to set the record straight.

The author of Metu Neter is a Ghanian African himself. It's just that, as the LESSONS state, the "Qur'an has traveled 25,000 miles", and reached the Black man in the Wilderness". (paraphrasing)

I practice the very same spiritual system that the men and women who built the pyramids did, and in the very same, unadultered form.

PEACE

Yet another outlandish lie, and from one who has never even been to the land in question, nor to surrounding lands.

The people of Kemet migrated into various parts of Africa, along the eastern coast and the interior--back to the ANU, from which they came.

It was from some of these very people, that I learned about Metu Neter to begin with........Not from a book, like some people I know :rolleyes:

The Nubians in present-day Upper Egypt, and Northern Sudan and Chad still speak and read Kemau, write the Heiro's and live Kemetic customs. They DO NOT uphold the Bible, nor any aspect thereof. In fact, they openly reject anything Biblical, including any and all aspects of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

These people have been forced off of their land by the Egyptian government, because they make the claim to be the true inheritors of the land of the Pharoahs, not the present-day Greco-Arab rulers.

These people are readily able to tell their (our) story, from beginning to end, of Kemetic theology, the conquests, the linneages, etc. I let these people speak for themselves, and not some hook-nosed Jew, some fat Arab, or some British aristocrat, all of whom feel free to distort history in the name of "God" as they see fit.

Unless you have been to this land, and met these people, you nor anyone else are not in any position to speak on something that you have no knowledge of, outside of some Biblical fairy tale.
Good speech, but it continues to not explain why the Theology manifested in the Metu Neter is not being found curved in ancient stones, rocks and writings of the Ancient Kemeteans themselves.

You have absolutely no tangible, logical or written evidence validating that the Ancient people of Kemet practiced the theology manifested in the Metu Neter.

Why is that?

You have proffered another falsehood dude...I never said the verse was "translated wrong." Here is the transcript of our dialogue:

Hosea was a prophet who lived and prophesied just before the destruction of Israel in 722 BC. He preached to the northern kingdom. Throughout the book you will see that he refers to Israel and Ephraim. Ephraim was the largest tribe in Israel and sometimes the whole nation was referred to as Ephraim. Here is Hosea 13:1-11, under the heading, Israel Is Doomed. The Biblical text that you proffered is emboldened:

"The Lord said:

'When your leaders spoke, everyone in Israel trembled and showed great respect. But you sinned by worshiping Baal, and you were destroyed. Now you continue to sin by designing and making idols of silver in the shape of calves. You are told to sacrifice to these idols - yes, even to kiss them! And so, all of you will vanish like the mist or the dew of early morning, or the husks of grain in the wind or smoke from a chimney.

I, the Lord, have been your God since you were in Egypt. I am the only God you know; the only one who can save. I took care of you in a thirsty desert. I fed you till you were satisfied, and then you became proud and forgot about me. Now I will attack like a lion; ambush you like a leopard, and rip you apart like a bear robbed of her cubs. I will gnaw on your bones, as though I was a lion or some other wild animal. Israel you are done for. Don't expect help from me. You wanted a king and rulers. Where is your king now? What cities have have rulers? In my anger, I gave you a king; in my fury, I took him away.'"
So why did you not simply use the translation I posted?

Perhaps not "iron clad" but definitely stone-clad, since what I speak of, and what the book speaks of, is etched in stone.

Could you please reveal that stone, or is it one of them things I have to understand in order to understand the understanding of the understanding?

This is the same crap that Muslims use. When I studied the Koran and asked questions most of them would avoid the question with those same types of lines, saying how I needed a teacher in order to get the full understanding or I needed an understand of this in order to understand that and in order to understand that I needed an understanding of this.No, this is the same explanation (which you call crap) that we ALL use when trying to get someone to understand a religious/spiritual POV that is different from our own.

I'm at a loss here. I'm sure the OT is available to you. It's not that hard to obtain a copy of Metu Neter, as you said you know someone who "practices" it.Right, so I'll leave it up to you to ponder why I haven't read either in detail. And I just said someone tried to explain to me once something about multiple gods and heineken bottles, which I was hoping had nothing to do with the Metu Neter book she kept referring to.

It's like asking me what the Matrix is about. Doing so would only ruin the point of the movie. The experience in and of itself is key.Maybe I'm not into science fiction, and for the sake of conversation I want to know something about the movie.


Perhaps not "iron clad" but definitely stone-clad, since what I speak of, and what the book speaks of, is etched in stone.Leaving semantics and definitions out of this (don't want to send you back to encarta), you know what I meant.

Firstly, I think it's really unfair to compare Metu Neter and Ma'at to Kwanzaa... The Pert Em Heru was not written yesterdayBut the other books were...

Second, There are indigenous peoples who practice Metu Neter. I didn't see it mentioned when researching ATRs. Can you provide me with more info on this?

The author of Metu Neter is a Ghanian African himself.I thought he was from Panama (or at least was there at a very early age) and founded the Ausar Auset society in Brooklyn?

It's just that, as the LESSONS state, the "Qur'an has traveled 25,000 miles", and reached the Black man in the Wilderness". (paraphrasing)Why mention the lessons?

Right, so I'll leave it up to you to ponder why I haven't read either in detail. And I just said someone tried to explain to me once something about multiple gods and heineken bottles, which I was hoping had nothing to do with the Metu Neter book she kept referring to.

This sound like a nice way of saying "none of your business buddy". If so, then that's cool. Just curious, is all. :)

Maybe I'm not into science fiction, and for the sake of conversation I want to know something about the movie.

Yeah, yeah........Don't forget, I know what your thoughts are on the Matrix already. ;)

There is info galore here as well as on my site, that I've posted about Metu Neter. For the sake of not waxing redundant, or subjecting myself to the peanut gallery, I'd rather not go through reposting it again.


Leaving semantics and definitions out of this (don't want to send you back to encarta), you know what I meant.

Yes, I did. And don't worry, that wasn't an Encarta moment :lol: Just a fun little play on words, is all.

But the other books were...

A book that is written about a religion, is not the same as a religious book. Message To The Black Man is not the authority on Islam.

I didn't see it mentioned when researching ATRs. Can you provide me with more info on this?

Check my site for details. Speaking of which, were you successful in logging on?

I thought he was from Panama (or at least was there at a very early age) and founded the Ausar Auset society in Brooklyn?

Yes, he did both, but to clarify, he attended his schooling in Panama (where he also spent time as a Rosicrucian), and the first chapter of the AAS in the West was in Brooklyn.

He was recently coronated as one of the Great Chiefs in Ghana.

Why mention the lessons?

Why not? That seems to be a commonplace theology for both of us (correct me if I'm wrong), and I just wanted to point out the correlations between all the doctrines of the original man.

PEACE

Yes, I did. And don't worry, that wasn't an Encarta moment :lol: Just a fun little play on words, is all.Good :) :welldone: It was a play on words, but it did convenienty avoid my point.

A book that is written about a religion, is not the same as a religious book. Message To The Black Man is not the authority on Islam.Wow, here we go again. I could have bet some money that you would bring this up and would be rich right now. You've made the same assumption about me others have made about you, but I digress.

My point was that these are neo-interpretations of ancient ideologies. I don't have any problem with being in America (the last two words missing from the book title you mentioned), but for those trying desperately to get back to what Africans did thousands of years ago I would assume this would be relevant.

So do you have a religious book?

Check my site for details. Speaking of which, were you successful in logging on?Nope. And does your site have information on people in Africa practicing Metu Neter based on Ra Un Nefer's (sp) book?

Yes, he did both, but to clarify, he attended his schooling in Panama (where he also spent time as a Rosicrucian), and the first chapter of the AAS in the West was in Brooklyn. He was recently coronated as one of the Great Chiefs in Ghana.I read this, but where was he born? On the website it says Brooklyn is the headquarters.

Why not? That seems to be a commonplace theology for both of us (correct me if I'm wrong), and I just wanted to point out the correlations between all the doctrines of the original man.Because you're not talking about the Qur'an, but trying to make a point using something you thought I wouuld relate to. I'm not mad at ya, but the lessons don't necessarily point to Metu Neter or the Book of the Dead (sorry, can't recall the kemetic word for this) so we shouldn't try to mesh it all together. I understand you are trying to show the universality of the concepts but it's not quite the same.

Hosea 13:4 - "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me."

Why would a people not from Egypt write those words in their Bible?Hosea was a prophet who lived and prophesied just before the destruction of Israel in 722 BC. He preached to the northern kingdom. Throughout the book you will see that he refers to Israel and Ephraim. Ephraim was the largest tribe in Israel and sometimes the whole nation was referred to as Ephraim. Here is Hosea 13:1-11, under the heading, Israel Is Doomed. The Biblical text that you proffered is emboldened:

"The Lord said:

'When your leaders spoke, everyone in Israel trembled and showed great respect. But you sinned by worshiping Baal, and you were destroyed. Now you continue to sin by designing and making idols of silver in the shape of calves. You are told to sacrifice to these idols - yes, even to kiss them! And so, all of you will vanish like the mist or the dew of early morning, or the husks of grain in the wind or smoke from a chimney.

I, the Lord, have been your God since you were in Egypt. I am the only God you know; the only one who can save. I took care of you in a thirsty desert. I fed you till you were satisfied, and then you became proud and forgot about me. Now I will attack like a lion; ambush you like a leopard, and rip you apart like a bear robbed of her cubs. I will gnaw on your bones, as though I was a lion or some other wild animal. Israel you are done for. Don't expect help from me. You wanted a king and rulers. Where is your king now? What cities have have rulers? In my anger, I gave you a king; in my fury, I took him away.'"
So why did you not simply use the translation I posted?I never do...:)

Good :) :welldone: It was a play on words, but it did convenienty avoid my point.

I thought I covered the point just the same........?

Wow, here we go again. I could have bet some money that you would bring this up and would be rich right now. You've made the same assumption about me others have made about you, but I digress.

What was the assumption that I've made? Besides, you have to bear in mind that you and I aren't the only people reading this--even besides the "peanut gallery". I can assume that someone has all the info--even you, lest you would not be asking what in my mind is rudimentary questions.

My point was that these are neo-interpretations of ancient ideologies. I don't have any problem with being in America (the last two words missing from the book title you mentioned), but for those trying desperately to get back to what Africans did thousands of years ago I would assume this would be relevant.

OK, this was what I thought you were asking, and what I thought I had answered.

Firstly, it's next to impossible to duplicate, or even emulate a 10,000 year old lifestyle. The only point that the author has set out to do, is to bring us back to a specific mindset from that time.

If this is what you refer to as a "neo-interpretation", then I don't suppose I can argue against that.

So do you have a religious book?

Out of fear of making any further assumptions about you, I have to ask what kind of "religious book" are you looking for from me?

I have the Pert Em Heru, if that's what you're requesting.

Nope.

D@mmit. Gotta work on that.

And does your site have information on people in Africa practicing Metu Neter based on Ra Un Nefer's (sp) book?

There are others on the site that practice the Mesush Netut, who can answer any questions that I have not.

I read this, but where was he born? On the website it says Brooklyn is the headquarters.

From my understanding, Ghana. He doesn't sound Panamanian whatsoever, nor does he look it. But he definitely sounds and looks Ghanian.

Because you're not talking about the Qur'an, but trying to make a point using something you thought I wouuld relate to. I'm not mad at ya, but the lessons don't necessarily point to Metu Neter or the Book of the Dead (sorry, can't recall the kemetic word for this) so we shouldn't try to mesh it all together. I understand you are trying to show the universality of the concepts but it's not quite the same.

Pert Em Heru.

But I guess it depends on how you interpret the Lessons to start with. Me, I don't take anything in it from a literalist perspective.

It's 100% metaphorical in my view, and thus, that's why I have no problems seeing how Metu Neter fits into the premise of the degree mentioned.

But I suppose that's a discussion for another time.

PEACE

Firstly, it's next to impossible to duplicate, or even emulate a 10,000 year old lifestyle. The only point that the author has set out to do, is to bring us back to a specific mindset from that time. OK, but how do you even get to that point if you cannot emulate the lifestyle?

If this is what you refer to as a "neo-interpretation", then I don't suppose I can argue against that.OK

I have the Pert Em Heru, if that's what you're requesting.OK, is that a published book just like the bible and such? I haven't seen it in a bookstore. I'd be interested in looking into that moreso than Metu Neter.

D@mmit. Gotta work on that.He sent me a password but it didn't work.

There are others on the site that practice the Mesush Netut, who can answer any questions that I have not.What's Mesush Netut?

But I guess it depends on how you interpret the Lessons to start with. Me, I don't take anything in it from a literalist perspective. It's 100% metaphorical in my view, and thus, that's why I have no problems seeing how Metu Neter fits into the premise of the degree mentioned.Umm, OK

But I suppose that's a discussion for another time.Truly

OK, but how do you even get to that point if you cannot emulate the lifestyle?

You have to do one, in order to do the other? You seem to have an undisclosed level of knowledge about NOI teachings.... When I was in the NOI, I called myself Muslim, but I did not try to emulate the way of life of ancient Muslims.

The beauty of the NOI, was that Elijah taught us that the ancient lifestyle was not relevant to spiritual awakenment.

OK

OK, is that a published book just like the bible and such? I haven't seen it in a bookstore. I'd be interested in looking into that moreso than Metu Neter.

Yes, look for the Book of Coming Forth By Day (which is what Pert Em Heru means).

I'm curious though, why would you be more interested in one, rather than the other.

He sent me a password but it didn't work.

OK, I'll look into it........Why didn't you send me (or him) another e-mail? Or did you?

What's Mesush Netut?

It means the path to the Divine.

Umm, OK

Truly

At your leisure, then.

PEACE

I have the book and I have read vol 1 when so many members kept throwing it up in my face I had to actually purchase the book to see for myself. Now that I have the book and have read the book, those same members have taken a back seat to debate it.

The Author of the Metu Neter simply mixes modern day Quabalah(Kabbalah), Hinduism and Egyptian pantheons to replace the Hebrew letters found in Kabbalah and Jewish Mysticism in building the Spheres of different levels of being. This exact same concept of a Tree of Spheres of being can be found in Quabalah, the method of meditation can be found in Hinduism. The author proclaims all of this was originally practiced by the people of Kemet. The problem with this is the people of Kemet thoroughly and meticulously recorded their religious beliefs and understanding, not once has a resemblance of this Tree of Spheres of different levels of existence been found in ancient Egyptian text nor an elusion to methods of meditation.

In my study of all of this one can easily conclude what occurred with Kemet.
The oldest creation story is Atum. Atum is the Supreme Being that created sub gods (Hosts of Heaven, Sons of GOD). Over time man began to error in serving, praising, worshiping and uplifting the sub gods. This is the Theology of the entire Old Testament and it is the exact same occurrence that can be found in Kemet history.

The Holy Scriptures are rejected because the descendants of Kemet have been prejudiced and brain washed to believe it is not our GOD. The heathens do this because they know and understand that as long as the descendants of Kemet reject their own GOD they will reign in the earth just as it is this day.

There is no dark skinned nation on earth that is stable, secure and ran by a fully intact and functional government. One is forced to step back and ask why is this? We are older than the white man, so why can’t we establish a working nation?

One discovers the answers to these questions by reading and studying the Bible.

The studiers of the Metu Neter from there religious information can not tell you what happen to the people of Kemet and this Great Empire, where did we go, where are we at, who we are and most of all how we were conquered and why.


Well said Lord,

Unfortunately, some of our people need to do more traveling, in more ways than one too.

Music producer,


You have absolutely no tangible, logical or written evidence validating that the Ancient people of Kemet practiced the theology manifested in the Metu Neter.

Why is that?
NNot to answer but to add on,which one(civilizations,ie Kemet and Indian civilizations) came before the other sinceyou claim much of the Metu Neter comes from other modern religous pratices

Music Producer

The problem with this is the people of Kemet thoroughly and meticulously recorded their religious beliefs and understanding, not once has a resemblance of this Tree of Spheres of different levels of existence been found in ancient Egyptian text nor an elusion to methods of meditation.
On the flip side,whose interpretation are we reading?Those who wrote the text or those who think they know what it says but are not familiar with the rest of Afrikan spirituality as a whole?

I would direct you here to learn our influence:http://www.essaysbyekowa.com/Buddha%20the%20African.htm


Why?because all of what is taught in Metu Neter may seem to have come from foreign sources but in essence,it may have came from us.It is a possibility.

You have to do one, in order to do the other?Not necessarily, I was just wondering how you can exhibit an ancient mindset and fail to follow a similar lifestyle.

When I was in the NOI, I called myself Muslim, but I did not try to emulate the way of life of ancient Muslims. The beauty of the NOI, was that Elijah taught us that the ancient lifestyle was not relevant to spiritual awakenment.First we would have to define what you mean by "ancient muslims." If you're talking about Arabs, that is correct but they aren't that ancient. Anything ancient would have to be the original man, and in my mind it's not proper to try to revert to a past state of being without factoring in the modern circumstance we are in. He also teaches Islam is a way of life (lifestyle), so I do not see how you can change your spiritual thinking/mindset without having a lifestyle that matches up with that.

Yes, look for the Book of Coming Forth By Day (which is what Pert Em Heru means).OK, I may peruse it if I see it in the store.

I'm curious though, why would you be more interested in one, rather than the other.Same reason I would read the torah in hebrew (if I could read hebrew) instead of the king james version of the bible.

OK, I'll look into it........Why didn't you send me (or him) another e-mail? Or did you?No, I just gave up. If you email me the password again can you send the URL also?

I would direct you here to learn our influence:http://www.essaysbyekowa.com/Buddha%20the%20African.htm


Why?because all of what is taught in Metu Neter may seem to have come from foreign sources but in essence,it may have came from us.It is a possibility.
Nothing has been found in Ancient Egyptian sources to support the theology that is manifested in the Metu Neter. Until it is found I will have to put the Metu Neter on hold.

More physical archeological writings and ancient Egyptian text has been found to support Egyptians practiced a form of religion extremely similar to that found in the Holy Scriptures.

I wouldn’t doubt that all religions can be traced to Africa because all humans come from Africa but in coming from Africa there was about 4 or five tribes in which all people can be traced to one of these tribes.

These four or five tribes developed their religions differently. The Tribes that became Egyptian did not practice what the Tribes that did not become Egyptian practiced.

Today scientist can take a swab from your mouth and tell you exactly what part of Africa your DNA originated from. If one is going to practice ATR (African Traditional Religion), which involves ancestrial worahip, wouldn’t one want to know who his ancestors are before engaging in such a thing?

It is OK for an African who was never displaced from Africa to claim ATR but for those Africans that were displaced from Africa to be true to self claiming ATR becomes a little bit more complicated because we have been displaced from our ancestors, basically you worship ancestors that you don’t know if they are your true ancestors.

Due to us being displaced we have to approach ATR a little differently then homegrown Africans. Just think what goes through a white mans mind when a descendant of slaves proudly announces to that white man, “I practice ATR”. That white man is setting there thinking, “What ever”, because he knows you don’t even know who your ancestors are.

Music producer,



NNot to answer but to add on,which one(civilizations,ie Kemet and Indian civilizations) came before the other sinceyou claim much of the Metu Neter comes from other modern religous pratices

NNot to answer but to add on,which one(civilizations,ie Kemet and Indian civilizations) came before the other sinceyou claim much of the Metu Neter comes from other modern religous pratices

What are you calling Indian civilizations?

What are you calling Indian civilizations?
an example of the subject matter that I was pertaining to.

Today scientist can take a swab from your mouth and tell you exactly what part of Africa your DNA originated from. If one is going to practice ATR (African Traditional Religion), which involves ancestrial worahip, wouldn’t one want to know who his ancestors are before engaging in such a thing?This came up in another thread, and I do agree with your perspective...but that is only if you think your current state is solely dependent on where you come from genetically, geographically, and culturally...which is usually what ATR proponents assert. But to this, I suspect you will get a response to the effect that as long as it's Africa it doesn't matter. If that's the case then I fail to see the point of it all.

Well said Lord,

Unfortunately, some of our people need to do more traveling, in more ways than one too.
If I had the money and allotment of time, I would definitely be out there in Africa and all over, because I suspect there is an Original Jerusalem that dates even before Kemet. There are African cave drawings and artifacts dating back 30,000 years or more but it is difficult to study the information because Africa and Africans are not in the position to make mainstream media.

The Egyptians were notorious for imitating major events that occurred in ancestral history. I suspect Akhenaten was doing exactly that from then ancient records that dated back to the original Jerusalem.

The Egyptians would hoist a boat to the top of Giza in a ritual. This ritual is very reminiscent of The Flood story and Noah. They would celebrate this ritual during the flooding of the Nile, which would cause the Pyramid, and the boat on top, seem to be encompassed by water. I wonder where the Egyptian got the concept?

They had to have ancient, ancient writings attesting to this information or scenery or did they just make it up?

Music producer



Nothing has been found in Ancient Egyptian sources to support the theology that is manifested in the Metu Neter. Until it is found I will have to put the Metu Neter on hold.
AS it was once stated: "the absence of evidence does not the the evidence of absence."I can comprehend how frustrating it must be to see a label on something and have knowledge from various sources that contradict the label(Metu Neter),,it may not be what it claims to be,or since it was once stated that all of the Afrikan people were known as kemetians at one point may validate it.I learned about the Metu Neter(not the book but the actual ancient practices) from another book on Afrikan our-story I read.



More physical archeological writings and ancient Egyptian text has been found to support Egyptians practiced a form of religion extremely similar to that found in the Holy Scriptures.
You should start a thread about that topic,it would be interesting.

I wouldn’t doubt that all religions can be traced to Africa because all humans come from Africa but in coming from Africa there was about 4 or five tribes in which all people can be traced to one of these tribes.

Do you know their names?(not a challenge but a serious question)


These four or five tribes developed their religions differently. The Tribes that became Egyptian did not practice what the Tribes that did not become Egyptian practiced.

Since they are related,they may share some of the same common elements of the spirituality that Metu Neter presents,which may be the reason why the author gave it the title.


Today scientist can take a swab from your mouth and tell you exactly what part of Africa your DNA originated from. If one is going to practice ATR (African Traditional Religion), which involves ancestrial worahip, wouldn’t one want to know who his ancestors are before engaging in such a thing?
I would want to know who they are,I have had some dreams that are quite telling as of late.


It is OK for an African who was never displaced from Africa to claim ATR but for those Africans that were displaced from Africa to be true to self claiming ATR becomes a little bit more complicated because we have been displaced from our ancestors, basically you worship ancestors that you don’t know if they are your true ancestors.
If the DNA says so,than I guess they may be our true ancestors,but not all of them.



Due to us being displaced we have to approach ATR a little differently then homegrown Africans. Just think what goes through a white mans mind when a descendant of slaves proudly announces to that white man, “I practice ATR”. That white man is setting there thinking, “What ever”, because he knows you don’t even know who your ancestors are.

I could give a **** about what any white person thinks about us and the ATR's,you shouldn't either.Caring about what they think of our self-determination is deadly:hulk:



HTP

Music producer


If I had the money and allotment of time, I would definitely be out there in Africa and all over, because I suspect there is an Original Jerusalem that dates even before Kemet. There are African cave drawings and artifacts dating back 30,000 years or more but it is difficult to study the information because Africa and Africans are not in the position to make mainstream media.
Where did you get this data(i am interested)


The Egyptians would hoist a boat to the top of Giza in a ritual. This ritual is very reminiscent of The Flood story and Noah. They would celebrate this ritual during the flooding of the Nile, which would cause the Pyramid, and the boat on top, seem to be encompassed by water. I wonder where the Egyptian got the concept?
for How long did they do that?

This came up in another thread, and I do agree with your perspective...but that is only if you think your current state is solely dependent on where you come from genetically, geographically, and culturally...which is usually what ATR proponents assert. But to this, I suspect you will get a response to the effect that as long as it's Africa it doesn't matter. If that's the case then I fail to see the point of it all.Well, the problem is most of us descendants of slaves bloodline will probably receive DNA markers that go through Europe. And if you are talking about ATR then you are talking about ancestral worship. Some where in your bloodline trail you probably will be worshiping several white men.

You and I both know our ancestral mothers were raped over and over by the white man, what are the odds that several of us are the result of that rape?

Music producer



Where did you get this data(i am interested)



for How long did they do that?

Where did you get this data(i am interested)

The data of African cave drawings dating back 30,000 years or more comes from Internet research.

The data of an original Jerusalem comes from being loyal to the Specific Word of GOD. GOD describes the return of the descendants of Israel and Judah as being an area that is overgrown with forestry, lions and wild animals, not as a desert typography as we find in the place labeled as Jerusalem today.


for How long did they do that?

No one truly knows because the age of Giza is truly unknown. Several historians try to say it was built by Cheops (Khufu) but there is information that the main pyramid of Giza is actually older than Cheops.

Well, the problem is most of us descendants of slaves bloodline will probably receive DNA markers that go through Europe. And if you are talking about ATR then you are talking about ancestral worship. Some where in your bloodline trail you probably will be worshiping several white men.

You and I both know our ancestral mothers were raped over and over by the white man, what are the odds that several of us are the result of that rape?
It depends on whose culture.From my own pratice and research the "ancestors" amy be gods to them

Nothing has been found in Ancient Egyptian sources to support the theology that is manifested in the Metu Neter. Until it is found I will have to put the Metu Neter on hold.

More physical archeological writings and ancient Egyptian text has been found to support Egyptians practiced a form of religion extremely similar to that found in the Holy Scriptures.

I wouldn’t doubt that all religions can be traced to Africa because all humans come from Africa but in coming from Africa there was about 4 or five tribes in which all people can be traced to one of these tribes.

These four or five tribes developed their religions differently. The Tribes that became Egyptian did not practice what the Tribes that did not become Egyptian practiced.

Today scientist can take a swab from your mouth and tell you exactly what part of Africa your DNA originated from. If one is going to practice ATR (African Traditional Religion), which involves ancestrial worahip, wouldn’t one want to know who his ancestors are before engaging in such a thing?

It is OK for an African who was never displaced from Africa to claim ATR but for those Africans that were displaced from Africa to be true to self claiming ATR becomes a little bit more complicated because we have been displaced from our ancestors, basically you worship ancestors that you don’t know if they are your true ancestors.

Due to us being displaced we have to approach ATR a little differently then homegrown Africans. Just think what goes through a white mans mind when a descendant of slaves proudly announces to that white man, “I practice ATR”. That white man is setting there thinking, “What ever”, because he knows you don’t even know who your ancestors are.

Music Producer

You've made a number baseless and erronous conclusions concerning the meaning of an ancestor and the Validity of ATR initiates as they exist in the African Diaspora.

A) What is your understanding of the role of an Ancestor within the context of ATR's?

B) What is the definition of an Ancestor?

C) Are Vodun and Umbanda, any less authentic ATR's than what is "practiced" on the continent by continental Africans? and if not please explain to us why and how?


I'm sure brotha Samurai will address some of your assertions before I return to the thread.

Music Producer

You've made a number baseless and erronous conclusions concerning the meaning of an ancestor and the Validity of ATR initiates as they exist in the African Diaspora.

A) What is your understanding of the role of an Ancestor within the context of ATR's?

B) What is the definition of an Ancestor?

C) Are Vodun and Umbanda, any less authentic ATR's than what is "practiced" on the continent by continental Africans? and if not please explain to us why and how?


I'm sure brotha Samurai will address some of your assertions before I return to the thread.
I will not pretend to know the workings of ATR because there is no given doctrine of it. But from reading some web pages about it the consistency is ancestral relations. In some they are seen as gods and in others simply as spirit guides.

The logical examination of any thing dealing in ancestral relations as being a religion is going to have to be approached differently by Africans that have been removed from their original land and community as compared to an African that was not removed.

That’s all I am saying, it is a basic logical perception.

How can you claim ATR before doing the necessary research to understand and know who your ancestors are?

It is a basic question that shouldn’t really offend anyone?

I will not pretend to know the workings of ATR because there is no given doctrine of it. But from reading some web pages about it the consistency is ancestral relations. In some they are seen as gods and in others simply as spirit guides.

The logical examination of any thing dealing in ancestral relations as being a religion is going to have to be approached differently by Africans that have been removed from their original land and community as compared to an African that was not removed.

That’s all I am saying, it is a basic logical perception.

How can you claim ATR before doing the necessary research to understand and know who your ancestors are?

It is a basic question that shouldn’t really offend anyone?

I understand your questioning, but your logic is faulty.

Although Africans have been removed PHYSICALLY from Africa, they're traditions have survived in tact, and most of the traditions are passed down orally, as I'm sure you well know. Which leads me to your point about a written doctrine.

It is impossible for you to know the "inner workings" about ATR's and form deductions based on books and websites, and this is my point. Your ancestors are identified by the means of divination, period.

There are many levels of awareness than cannot be discerned by reading books and doctrines, this is in part the reason why high initiates are also known as root workers. The knowledge of herbs, roots, and minerals are used as divination mediums. Each of them serving as a function to heighten specific levels of awareness for the initiate involved, often far surpassing the need ascertain who your ancestors are.

This is why I asked you about Vodun and Umbanda.

When the French, Spanish and Portuguese brought our ancestors to the western hemisphere, the African did not relinquish his spiritual traditions in favor of European ones.

We continued to venerate (not worship) our ancestors under the guise of practicing catholicism.

In the case of the Africans of Brazil, our ancestors were able to synthesize identical spiritual belief systems of the Native Americans in the State of Bahia with systems like the Oracle of Ifa from Nigeria.

Indicentally these religions remain firmly in place, and many priests and priestesses shuttle back and forth between the Americas and Ile Ife Nigeria and other parts of the continent.

Lastly, an ancestor can be an immediate family member, such as an aunt or uncle.

Peace beyond all understanding

Hear_I_ am speaking from Sahu first part of the 10th Circle for the first movement of Human conciousness.
Pershing to intersect Ab man 1st thread into the not of nothing.

the construct of most Stone meglifhs were done with a concept based on the phyical relationship between the elements in matter. with this Knowledge
Kings of egypt were able to see the five elements in there raw state thus allowing them to manipulate sound,stone,water, wood. to transport hugh blocks of stone with the use of sound were mastered and thus came the pyramids.

From the attributes of God set forth in Egyptian texts of all periods, the eminent Egyptologists, Drs. H. Brugsch and E. de Rouge, have come to the opinion that the dwellers of the Nile Valley – from earliest times – knew and worshipped one God; nameless, incomprehensible, and eternal...

In 1860 de Rouge wrote:

“The unity of a supreme and self-existent being, his eternity, his almightiness and external reproduction thereby as God; the immortality of the soul, completed by the dogma of punishments and rewards: such is the sublime and persistent base which, notwithstanding all deviations and all mythological embellishments, must secure for the beliefs of the ancient Egyptians a most honorable place among the religions of antiquity.”

Nine years later he developed this view, and discussed the difficulty of reconciling the belief in the unity of God with the polytheism which existed in Egypt from the earliest times, and he repeated his conviction that the Egyptians believed in a self-existent God who was One Being, who had created man, and who had endowed him with an immortal soul...

In fact, Dr. de Rouge amplifies what the famous French Egyptologist Champollion wrote in 1839:

“The Egyptian religion is a pure monotheism, which manifested itself externally by a symbolic polytheism.”

M. Pierret, in his book, The Egyptian Pantheon, adopts the view that the texts show us that the Egyptians believed in One Infinite and Eternal God who was without a second, and he repeats Champollion’s dictum. But the most ardent supporter of the monotheistic theory is Dr. Brugsch, who has collected a number of striking passages from the texts, one of which is The Egyptian Book of the Dead, the holy book of the ancient Egyptians...

It was written circa 1500 BC, but historians say there are texts which are known to have existed in revised editions and to have been in use among the ancient Egyptians as early as 4500 BC, some 5,000 years before the advent of Christianity. A profound excerpt from one of the passages reads as follows:

“God is one and alone, and none other existeth with Him – God is the One, the One who hath made all things – God is a spirit, a hidden spirit, the spirit of spirits, the great spirit of the Egyptians, the Divine spirit – God is from the beginning, and He hath been from the beginning...

He hath existed from old and was when nothing else had being. He existed when nothing else existed, and what existeth He created after He had come into being...

He is the Father of beginnings – God is the Eternal One, He is eternal and infinite and endureth forever, and yes – God is hidden and no man knoweth His form. No man hath been able to seek out His likeness; He is hidden to the gods and men, and He is a mystery unto His creatures...

No man knoweth how to know Him – His name remaineth hidden; His name is a mystery unto His children. His names are innumerable; they are manifold and none knoweth their number...

God is truth and He feedeth thereon. He is the king of truth, and He hath established the Earth thereupon – God is life and through Him only man liveth. He giveth life to man, He breatheth the breath of life into his nostrils – God is father and mother, the father of fathers and the mother of mothers. He begetteth, but was never begotten; He produceth, but was never produced; He begat himself and produced himself. He createth, but was never created; He is the maker of His own form and the fashioner of His own body.

God Himself is existence, He endureth without increase or diminution, He multiplieth Himself millions of times, and He is manifold in forms and in numbers – God hath made the Universe, and He created all that therein is; He is the Creator of what is in this world, and of what was, of what is, and of what shall be. He is the Creator of the Heavens, and of the Earth, and of the deep, and of the water, and of the mountains.

God hath stretched out the Heavens and founded the Earth – what His heart conceived straightway came to pass, and when He hath spoken, it cometh to pass and endureth forever – God is the father of the gods; He fashioned men and formed the gods – God is merciful unto those who reverence Him, and He heareth him that calleth upon Him. God knoweth him that acknowledges Him; He rewardeth him that serveth Him, and He protecteth him that followeth Him.”

(The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Papyrus of Ani, transliteration and translation by E.A. Wallis Budge, pp. xcii-xciii)

This profound passage, written thousands of years before the advent of Christianity, proves – beyond a doubt – that the ancient Egyptians of Africa believed in a self-existent God who was One Being; who created man and endowed him with an immortal soul...

Excellent post!
:terrific:

Hotep

Before Akhenaten...the one given all the credit for parting from the all complex mystery system of KMT...there were and is more atributes to the incomprehensible "All" mighty as is called the "Creator" of the "All". Concider that "If" there always was such a simple and easy (concept) method of explaning the incomprehensible...then why has it come down to us that there are 99 attributes to the so-called "Name"? What is the difference between this idea that can easily trivilize the concept of the incomprehensible into only the "One"...and the concept of our origenal ancient (KMT) ancestors (http://www.jimloy.com/egypt/gods.htm) who knew full well through experience of thousands of years and inspiration and divine revilations...the proper study (MAAT) and experience tought in the so-called "Temples" of that time...that had meny "Representations" of the same thing only a study in detail of each concept of the "All" that gave them the proper overstanding of "Right Knowledge" that required 40 years for a student to "Master"?? Why was Akhenaten concidered "Crazy" by his own people and called behind his back the "Crazy King" if he was correct in his concepts...that made it easy for todays controlers to corrupt and distort in their favor. Under the proper sircumstances...the western (Indoeuropean) mind is not able to comprihend or sustain the origenal 77 comandments (they can't even keep the little 10 they took) that is the absolute only way to grow spiritualy to the point of "Becoming". The so-called "Greeks" could not do it and oppted to choose the easy (http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/GGGM.html) shorter method introduced by the one Egyptiean king they hold up in soo much favor...Akhenaten. There is soo much to learn and soo little time to learn it espishily if we try and take a "Short-Cut"...then "We" are only "Fooling" our self. After the passing of the so-called king "Akhenaten" every thing that was his was systematicly removed and a return to the proper origenal mystery system that required intence and prolonged (the same system that gave rise to All of the Prophets) "Life" study. It is true that Akhenaten was a initiate from the time he was a child but his level and degree of rank is questionable and he chose to take a shorter route that gave the european their chance to grab a concept that would give them "Power" (http://www.nbufront.org/html/MastersMuseums/DocBen/GGJames/OnGGJamesPhilosophyRel.html) and that is just what they did..."There is only one G-d" is what they declair today but why then are there more "Evil" today than "Ever" before on the "Earth"...and why are they all (The Big Three Religions) at War with each other and "No" end in sight?? This is by no means every thing in a nut shell...only a attempt to share what is known. "People Know Thy Self"

Ase`
Quote: "It is true that Akhenaten was an initiate from the time he was a child but his level and degree of rank is questionable and he chose to take a shorter route that gave the european their chance to grab a concept that would give them "Power".

How exactly do Akhenaten "empower Europeans"?

It was not "europeans" who succeeded him in power. It was the Amenist priesthood based at Thebes, and later the "Setis" from Kha-Set, who usered in the 19th Dynasty under Ramses I.

Hotep

The more we study history...that is if we are not allowing ourselves to be lost in the europian "Distorted" versions...we will learn that Akhenaten was not and is not conciderded a keeper of "All" that is "Medu Neteru"...but determined to concoct his own ideas that were soon "Abandoned" by all of "Kemet" after his death.
Who holds up "Akhennaten" today? It is only the "Europian" and no one else in all of so-called Africa. Why do we or any of us today think we should honor a man who is responsible for the "Corruption" of what was given to humans by the Creator...just because he (Akhenaten) had the "Power" to do so.
When any of us think that we know enought to criticise our ancestors with out fully and absolutely knowing what we are saying...and by not understanding the "Concepts" of the G-ds as apposed to the one so-called G-d...then we will remain in error...untill we hopfuly learn better. Snap judgements are "Foolish".
Because of the actions of "Akhenaten" and through the series of events that followed after his time and even up unto this very day...the indo-europians were able to take any form of corruption and make it the foundation of their own...hence the foundation for the "System of White Superimacy" that has its very "Roots" and justification of its "Illusions" based in what "Akhenaten" did long ago. The "Roseacrusions" for example holds "Akenaten" in the highest honor because his is there foundation for the so-called "ONE-G-D" ideology that is the very foundation of all of the "Religions" that have in-slaved the so-called Africans who follow the euro-doctrin of ONE-G-D that is "White Superimacy" today.
Indo-europians...including those who claim and pro-claim they are "White"...have taken the ONE-G-D idea and made it none other than them "Selves"!! Under a world wide system of sanctified Racism that covers "ALL" of the worlds "Religions" that are under "Their" control and not the "African".
The so-called African only had Spirituality from the begining of "Time". Spirituality does not allow for the system of white superimacy to exist unless humans (Africans) are made "Ignorant" first...then you can give them the one g-d idea that we follow and worship ignorantly today...and think we are correct!! Then why don't you know your self and exactly who your ancestors are?? Why is it then that "All" so-called Africans ware ever they are found...are in need of "Liberation" from the one god concept of white superimacy??

Ase`

Hotep

The more we study history...that is if we are not allowing ourselves to be lost in the europian "Distorted" versions...we will learn that Akhenaten was not and is not conciderded a keeper of "All" that is "Medu Neteru"...but determined to concoct his own ideas that were soon "Abandoned" by all of "Kemet" after his death.
Who holds up "Akhennaten" today? It is only the "Europian" and no one else in all of so-called Africa. Why do we or any of us today think we should honor a man who is responsible for the "Corruption" of what was given to humans by the Creator...just because he (Akhenaten) had the "Power" to do so.
When any of us think that we know enought to criticise our ancestors with out fully and absolutely knowing what we are saying...and by not understanding the "Concepts" of the G-ds as apposed to the one so-called G-d...then we will remain in error...untill we hopfuly learn better. Snap judgements are "Foolish".
Because of the actions of "Akhenaten" and through the series of events that followed after his time and even up unto this very day...the indo-europians were able to take any form of corruption and make it the foundation of their own...hence the foundation for the "System of White Superimacy" that has its very "Roots" and justification of its "Illusions" based in what "Akhenaten" did long ago. The "Roseacrusions" for example holds "Akenaten" in the highest honor because his is there foundation for the so-called "ONE-G-D" ideology that is the very foundation of all of the "Religions" that have in-slaved the so-called Africans who follow the euro-doctrin of ONE-G-D that is "White Superimacy" today.
Indo-europians...including those who claim and pro-claim they are "White"...have taken the ONE-G-D idea and made it none other than them "Selves"!! Under a world wide system of sanctified Racism that covers "ALL" of the worlds "Religions" that are under "Their" control and not the "African".
The so-called African only had Spirituality from the begining of "Time". Spirituality does not allow for the system of white superimacy to exist unless humans (Africans) are made "Ignorant" first...then you can give them the one g-d idea that we follow and worship ignorantly today...and think we are correct!! Then why don't you know your self and exactly who your ancestors are?? Why is it then that "All" so-called Africans ware ever they are found...are in need of "Liberation" from the one god concept of white superimacy??

Ase`


As far as wht I have found from independent researh, which includes the opinion of Dr. Diop, it was the opponents of the Amarna Revolution who fell into "corruption" and eventually led the country into military rule under Horemheb. Following him the corruption continued under Ramses I and the "Seti's" that followed.
Quote:"Then why don't you know your self and exactly who your ancestors are?"

Speak for your Self on that matter.

I know EXACTLY who my ancestors are and have published information to that effect.

Hotep

The more we study history...that is if we are not allowing ourselves to be lost in the europian "Distorted" versions...we will learn that Akhenaten was not and is not conciderded a keeper of "All" that is "Medu Neteru"...but determined to concoct his own ideas that were soon "Abandoned" by all of "Kemet" after his death.
Who holds up "Akhennaten" today? It is only the "Europian" and no one else in all of so-called Africa. Why do we or any of us today think we should honor a man who is responsible for the "Corruption" of what was given to humans by the Creator...just because he (Akhenaten) had the "Power" to do so.
When any of us think that we know enought to criticise our ancestors with out fully and absolutely knowing what we are saying...and by not understanding the "Concepts" of the G-ds as apposed to the one so-called G-d...then we will remain in error...untill we hopfuly learn better. Snap judgements are "Foolish".
Because of the actions of "Akhenaten" and through the series of events that followed after his time and even up unto this very day...the indo-europians were able to take any form of corruption and make it the foundation of their own...hence the foundation for the "System of White Superimacy" that has its very "Roots" and justification of its "Illusions" based in what "Akhenaten" did long ago. The "Roseacrusions" for example holds "Akenaten" in the highest honor because his is there foundation for the so-called "ONE-G-D" ideology that is the very foundation of all of the "Religions" that have in-slaved the so-called Africans who follow the euro-doctrin of ONE-G-D that is "White Superimacy" today.
Indo-europians...including those who claim and pro-claim they are "White"...have taken the ONE-G-D idea and made it none other than them "Selves"!! Under a world wide system of sanctified Racism that covers "ALL" of the worlds "Religions" that are under "Their" control and not the "African".
The so-called African only had Spirituality from the begining of "Time". Spirituality does not allow for the system of white superimacy to exist unless humans (Africans) are made "Ignorant" first...then you can give them the one g-d idea that we follow and worship ignorantly today...and think we are correct!! Then why don't you know your self and exactly who your ancestors are?? Why is it then that "All" so-called Africans ware ever they are found...are in need of "Liberation" from the one god concept of white superimacy??

Ase`

True indeed, I agree with all of this.

HOTEPU