Sarah Breedlove was born in Delta, Louisiana, on Dec. 23, 1867, the daughter of Owen and Minerva Breedlove. Orphaned at six, she moved to Vicksburg with her sister, Louvenia, when she was ten. At the age of fourteen she married Moses (Jeff) McWilliams. They had a daughter, A'Lelia, born in 1885. McWilliams died in 1887, said to have been the victim of a race riot in Greenwood, Mississippi

http://www.indianahistory.org/pop_hist/people/walker.html

Outstanding drop of history here! :jumping: :great:

I didn't know she died in a race riot, thanks for the info MBA!

Pan, Actually her husband Moses (Jeff) McWilliams deid in the riot in 1887. Madam CJ walker did not pass away until May 25, 1919, at the age of 51.

Madam CJ Walker was an inventor and businesswoman. In 1905 Sarah Breedlove developed a conditioning treatment for straightening hair. Starting with door-to-door sales of her cosmetics. She was one of the first black african american woman who was a millionaire. As her wealth grew, Madam Walker gave increasing amounts to African American charities. One of her greatest landmarks is the Madam CJ Walker theater in Indianapolis, where her business headquarters was. Madame Walker was president and sole owner, provided employment for some three thousand persons. the mansion bulit in NewYork worth then $90,000 Indiana limestone townhouse at 108-110 West 136th Street

Her great-great-granddaughter pushed for the landmark in Indianapolis,the revonation of the old building was 2.3 million. The block-square building houses a Greek-style theater, lunchroom, drugstore, beauty parlor, and private offices

Okay I misread that (which would explain why I never heard that), thanks for the correction!

so why do we honor some one who helped sisters straighten their hair?
if that's the case there are a bunch of koreans and indians who should be honored.
i put her in the same category as the local crack dealer.

detrimental to the community.

james r u being serious?

so why do we honor some one who helped sisters straighten their hair?
if that's the case there are a bunch of koreans and indians who should be honored.
i put her in the same category as the local crack dealer.

detrimental to the community.


I think you missed the point of the whole thread... but I tell you this I will not sit here and go back and forth with you either.

Peace
Angel

so why do we honor some one who helped sisters straighten their hair? if that's the case there are a bunch of koreans and indians who should be honored.i put her in the same category as the local crack dealer.detrimental to the community.

I'll honor Madam Walker as a business woman (the 1st female millionaire in the country). Although she did promote/invent products to arguably "whiten" black women: Hair straightening, etc! She also was trying to make black women feel better about themselves. I understand what you are saying brother James, but sometimes we have to judge things at the time they occured!

I'll honor Madam Walker as a business woman (the 1st female millionaire in the country). Although she did promote/invent products to arguably "whiten" black women: Hair straightening, etc! She also was trying to make black women feel better about themselves. Sometimes we have to judge things at the time they occured!


I couldnt have said it better thank you Brother Pan.....

james r u being serious?
as a ham sandwich!

would you honor the crack dealer?
black people straightening their hair is seriously damaging psychologically.
(think M. Jackson)
why do we honor anyone who promotes that?
wrong is wrong.

why do we honor Jack Johnson who only dated white women?

what we are saying is it doesn't matter how dysfunctional you are as long as you can make some money.
i do not subscribe to that type of value system.
i do not honor people who aid in our disease.

why do we honor Jack Johnson who only dated white women?

We don't honor Jack Johnson for dating white women, actually his antics kept black men from challenging for the heavyweight title for almost 20 years. However what he did accomplish was beating the s*** out of racist crackers who felt they were mentally & physically superior to black people! That did bring black people a sense of pride, and it forever challenged notions that blacks were physically inferior to whites. BTW...Joe Louis dated white women too! The same as we don't honor Martin Luther King as a womanizer or Malcolm X as a street hustler & pimp! All of our historical leaders had some faults, but this doesn't negate the positives they've done!

very interesting facts of history thankz for sharing

C.J. Walker's life story is an inspirational story. She overcame obstacles and achieved greatness. I don't understand your hair comment. If it was a tongue in cheek reply then so be it, however, my gut tells me you only deal with and respect cookie cutter people.

Please tell me you're an unemployed comedian? Better yet, how about debating the subject based on it's merits instead of those not so catchy oneliners you are fond of employing. If you have a problem with the concept of straightening hair then just say so, but don't knock a woman because she is enterprising enough to profit off of it.

With that said, I'm wondering if your issue is really hair or the fact that this enterprising, successful, beautiful black woman achieved something that you could only dream on achieving. C.J. Walker's story is MUST reading for not only young African American women but to all who can truly appreciate a from rags to riches story.

Brother MrFolkLore and Brother Pan thank you both seeing the purpose of this thread thanks for the support on this one love yall

Sister Purple and daroc thank you both and Brother Rich happy you all enjoyed this link
Angel

so why do we honor some one who helped sisters straighten their hair?
if that's the case there are a bunch of koreans and indians who should be honored.
i put her in the same category as the local crack dealer.

detrimental to the community.

Her claim to fame is the creation of the mentacidal product: the straightening comb. I see no reason to honor her.

http://sonsofthediaspora.org

I think you need to know the story before you knock ones so call "fame". first this thread have more to do with then a straightening comb. My dear Brother she did way more then you know I can see. smh

Madam C. J. Walker, was the first African American woman millionaire in America, known not only for her hair straightening treatment and her salon system which helped other African Americans to succeed, but also her work to end lynching and gain women's rights.

And no one ask or said honor her there is a forum for that!
Peace
Angel

I think you need to know the story before you knock ones so call "fame". first this thread have more to do with then a straightening comb. My dear Brother she did way more then you know I can see. smh

Madam C. J. Walker, was the first African American woman millionaire in America, known not only for her hair straightening treatment and her salon system which helped other African Americans to succeed, but also her work to end lynching and gain women's rights.



Your assumption that I didn't know of her actions toward playing a part in ending lynchingis inaccurate.

I wonder how many of us who are criticizing Madam CJ Walker are dating women who have "straight" hair, own/work in beauty salons?

Well instead of going negative you should of came positive and correct her first invention was Wonderful Hair Grower, a scalp conditioning and healing formula. During this time many black women did not know how to take care of their hair. This led to rampant scalp diseases like dandruff, lice, eczema, alopecia and tetter. The result was profound hair loss for many black women.

by the way, She did NOT invent the straightening comb, though many people incorrectly believe that to be true. it was Walter Sammons of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania received U.S. patenton December 21, 1920 and Theora Stephens on October 21, 1980

She have HAD NO ties to the straightening of African-American women's hair.
Another fact....white women were really the first ones who used the straightening comb because they were trying to affect certain styles with wigs.

Also at this time African Americans were becoming more urban and competing in the job market.

So lets get the facts

1875 Marcel Grateau made the marcel curling iron
1905 Charles Nessler invented cold wave perms
1931 pre heated method was introduce
1941 waving solution n neutralizer

Sarah Breedlove was born in Delta, Louisiana, on Dec. 23, 1867, the daughter of Owen and Minerva Breedlove. Orphaned at six, she moved to Vicksburg with her sister, Louvenia, when she was ten. At the age of fourteen she married Moses (Jeff) McWilliams. They had a daughter, A'Lelia, born in 1885. McWilliams died in 1887, said to have been the victim of a race riot in Greenwood, Mississippi

http://www.indianahistory.org/pop_hist/people/walker.html

MzBlackAngel, great thread about a controversial and dynamic personality... Madame C.J. is a woman who, in many ways, embodies the spirit of African women in that she was an independent and creative soul and spirit trying to make a way out of no way...

Yeah, her products are controversial, but she, as an entrepreneur is unparalelled in her brilliance... Not only was this sister the first African American female millionaire in America, she was the first female millionaire period! She's Oprah before Oprah was even thought about... Great sister, Great woman, mother, entrepreneur - the embodiment of many of the wonders of Black Women in America, and everywhere... Thank you a million times for posting this great article and website, sister... She was, and is, a great one, just like you, and all the wonderful women of African descent...

Peace!
Isaiah

she was a great woman because she made a lot of money?

how capitalistic is that?
bob johnson also made a lot of money from BET.
do we now put him in the hall of fame?

if the criteria for greatness in the black community is the accumulation of money and fame, then we have a problem.

i want to know what these people did for the grass roots people of the community and did their harm equal their benefit.

straight hair = crack.

think about it.

It is the norm for individuals who are entering the twillight of their lives to become embittered and down the accomplishments of others. I find that behavior replusive and totally unexceptable . Other than type ad nauseam comments on this forum daily, why not do a little soul searching and ask yourself "what have I done for the grass root community today?"

To date, not once have I ever seen a word of encouragement or inspiration uttered under your moniker. Why is that? Why must you pedal disdain, hate and discontent? It is as if you were owed money in another life and attempting to seek full payment from the populous of this community. My brother, you need step out of that ghostly light that bathed the cave in which you dwell and embrace the mainstream. You speak as if the world that you dwell in is right and everyone else is wrong. The sad part of it all is that it is you who is the victim, the accused; yet, unwittingly during your transformation in your dimly lit underworld the accused has become an instrument of the very thing you accuse others of being (unenlighten). This is a sad and unfortunate tragedy.

What tears at my heart is that you are acting like some southern white man who does not like to discuss what blacks accomplished. This topic (C.J. Walker) honors a positive, great and noble woman. Why not celbrate such a person? Afterall, black women are the backbone of our community.

James Baldwin once wrote that, "The glorification of one race and the consequent debasement of another, or others, always has been and always will be a recipe for murder. The question is which race (or better yet gender) are you trying to debase?

When it comes to C.J. Walker ... you're not worthy of attempting to touch her bra strap. Man, chill on the nationalist rhetoric. It ain't that serious. And you ain't leading nobody to a promise land.

It is the norm for individuals who are entering the twillight of their lives to become embittered and down the accomplishments of others. I find that behavior replusive and totally unexceptable . Other than type ad nauseam comments on this forum daily, why not do a little soul searching and ask yourself "what have I done for the grass root community today?"

To date, not once have I ever seen a word of encouragement or inspiration uttered under your moniker. Why is that? Why must you pedal disdain, hate and discontent? It is as if you were owed money in another life and attempting to seek full payment from the populous of this community. My brother, you need step out of that ghostly light that bathed the cave in which you dwell and embrace the mainstream. You speak as if the world that you dwell in is right and everyone else is wrong. The sad part of it all is that it is you who is the victim, the accused; yet, unwittingly during your transformation in your dimly lit underworld the accused has become an instrument of the very thing you accuse others of being (unenlighten). This is a sad and unfortunate tragedy.

What tears at my heart is that you are acting like some southern white man who does not like to discuss what blacks accomplished. This topic (C.J. Walker) honors a positive, great and noble woman. Why not celbrate such a person? Afterall, black women are the backbone of our community.

James Baldwin once wrote that, "The glorification of one race and the consequent debasement of another, or others, always has been and always will be a recipe for murder. The question is which race (or better yet gender) are you trying to debase?

When it comes to C.J. Walker ... you're not worthy of attempting to touch her bra strap. Man, chill on the nationalist rhetoric. It ain't that serious. And you ain't leading nobody to a promise land.

Wow, Mr. Folklore, that's pretty harsh, don't you think? I know brother James can be mad caustic in his analysis, but I don't think the brother is bitter about Madame C.J.'s success as an entrepreneur... I believe we do have to look closer at our heroes as it is not always cut and dried whom we're looking at on the surface...

I don't want to be an apologist for James or Madame C.J.... I just feel that her accomplishments weren't all positive, and James is pointing that out... You know and I know that there's no way that we can say that our Beautiful African women straightening their hair is in any way a positive thing... Comparing it to crack usage is too strong, as well... Would that we could strike a happy medium, and say that she was a sensational entrepreneur who invented something that turned out to be somewhat detrimental to African woman???

Peace!
Isaiah

Wow, Mr. Folklore, that's pretty harsh, don't you think? I know brother James can be mad caustic in his analysis, but I don't think the brother is bitter about Madame C.J.'s success as an entrepreneur... I believe we do have to look closer at our heroes as it is not always cut and dried whom we're looking at on the surface...

I don't want to be an apologist for James or Madame C.J.... I just feel that her accomplishments weren't all positive, and James is pointing that out... You know and I know that there's no way that we can say that our Beautiful African women straightening their hair is in any way a positive thing... Comparing it to crack usage is too strong, as well... Would that we could strike a happy medium, and say that she was a sensational entrepreneur who invented something that turned out to be somewhat detrimental to African woman???

Peace!
Isaiah


She was an Entrepreneur a business woman. She did not invent I will say it again did not invent the straightening comb. So that is out the way....what do this thread have to do with straightening hair. Because

she invented a pomade ok ! yall get this
Its like folks dont read the links not the text of replies nor understand the purpose of the thread first its about our history as a people not your opinion
you can't change what have been done.

Far as your first reply Brother Isaiah thank you for understanding the (well maybe) understand the reason of this thread. Because as of now I am really not sure you do. since yall want to make this about african amercian straightening thier hair.

And Brother Pan's comment was a good one How many men disagree, but have dated a african amercian woman that straightenings her hair?

Bascially its like calling the kettle black

and Brother MrFolklore I understand your points you made... but one have to wonder if they are hating on something they really didn't take time to read just point out the negative. This site is about learning embracing and understanding our culture not tearing it down....so thank you for your reply.

Oh yeah...straight hair = crack :hammer: whatever

Now I mean no harm in my reply but get with the topic of the thread.

Peace
Angel

And Brother Pan's comment was a good one How many men disagrees but have dated a african amercian woman that straightening her hair?

Basically its like call the kettle black

if it means anything, i've not dealt with straight hair females for many years.

it's one of the factors that i look for.

if it means anything, i've not dealt with straight hair females for many years.

it's one of the factors that i look for.


but ya did case closed....:lol:

What we need to keep in mind is the time period in which this all took place. Black people and exspecially Black women were not suppose to be creative and business oriented. They were deem stupid amongst many other things.

She took a lemon and made pomade! Yes, she sold hair straigtening products but that was not her invention. I don't believe that if she knew for one minuite the negative effect that it would have on the psyche of the the Black people today, that she would have endorsed such products.

She help women to feel more confident and beautiful in a time when they were feeling ugly and helpless. It worked for the most part and then somewhere it turned the other way. Some women started to hate their overall beautiful self and wanted no part of it. That was not her doing or intentions. Black women were hating themselves long before that.

Her courage and determination to succeed in a racist/male chauvinist society, where lynchings, riots, and segregations was normal practice, is phenomenal. The odds were totally against her and yet she was unyeilding. She made an enormous contribution to Black women. She showed them that it was possible for them to take a piece of the american pie.

CJ Walker, a Hero in my eyes!

What we need to keep in mind is the time period in which this all took place. Black people and exspecially Black women were not suppose to be creative and business oriented. They were deem stupid amongst many other things.

She took a lemon and made pomade! Yes, she sold hair straigtening products but that was not her invention. I don't believe that if she knew for one minuite the negative effect that it would have on the psyche of the the Black people today, that she would have endorsed such products.

She help women to feel more confident and beautiful in a time when they were feeling ugly and helpless. It worked for the most part and then somewhere it turned the other way. Some women started to hate their overall beautiful self and wanted no part of it. That was not her doing or intentions. Black women were hating themselves long before that.

Her courage and determination to succeed in a racist/male chauvinist society, where lynchings, riots, and segregations was normal practice, is phenomenal. The odds were totally against her and yet she was unyeilding. She made an enormous contribution to Black women. She showed them that it was possible for them to take a piece of the american pie.

CJ Walker, a Hero in my eyes!

Sister Angel, I understand the posted topic, and I acknowledge the greatness of the sister's entrepreneurial brilliance, as I said... But can we deny that the straightening of both male and female hair in our communities is a thing we, today, have issues with? I don't put all of that on her, but I acknowledge both sides in this issue... Some are most positive, some are negative, and I don't think it a crime if one sees the negative as being more pertinent to them... I cannot see folks saying that because one sees that negative, they are somehow THE PROBLEM as it were...

Again, I acknowledge our sisters business genius as something for which we should all be proud of... As for African women straightening their hair, yes, I have dated, gone out, been married to 'em, because HAIR was not THE most important thing about them to me... That is not the point... The point is that we now live in an era when we should understand that, and yet still do not... Sisters still straightening their hair because a terrible message was sent to them long time ago, and their passing that on to their children.... While we acknowledge the memory of our sister, we acknowledge that this is part of her legacy, as well... Greater folks than she have had to deal with the totality of their lives being dissected in this way... It is all good as long as we can connect with her in a balanced way... Sorry if I offended in taking this perspective...

Peace!
Isaiah

Sister Angel, I understand the posted topic, and I acknowledge the greatness of the sister's entrepreneurial brilliance, as I said... But can we deny that the straightening of both male and female hair in our communities is a thing we, today, have issues with? I don't put all of that on her, but I acknowledge both sides in this issue... Some are most positive, some are negative, and I don't think it a crime if one sees the negative as being more pertinent to them... I cannot see folks saying that because one sees that negative, they are somehow THE PROBLEM as it were...

Again, I acknowledge our sisters business genius as something for which we should all be proud of... As for African women straightening their hair, yes, I have dated, gone out, been married to 'em, because HAIR was not THE most important thing about them to me... That is not the point... The point is that we now live in an era when we should understand that, and yet still do not... Sisters still straightening their hair because a terrible message was sent to them long time ago, and their passing that on to their children.... While we acknowledge the memory of our sister, we acknowledge that this is part of her legacy, as well... Greater folks than she have had to deal with the totality of their lives being dissected in this way... It is all good as long as we can connect with her in a balanced way... Sorry if I offended in taking this perspective...

Peace!
Isaiah


Like I said in the other replies, the straightening comb she did not invented but since you want to go here, I will for a brief minute or so. And this is real as it gets.

The way I see it… yall can fuss and fuss all day long, but a sister will always wear her hair in which it is easy for her to manage not you. It’s not about trying to be or act white or black it’s a look it’s a style it’s manageable in her eyes. Something they can handle on the day-to-day bases. It’s not about what you like only what you prefer. Do not push your beliefs on me. Moreover, its not a “we” it is you and who claims to have a problem with it. I for one do not have issues on who wear and do not wear a perm or straightening their hair. Because the inside makes a person not the hair not the clothes, it does not take away their so-called “blackness” or whom they are inside nor pride. That is assuming with not having all facts why a woman would straighten her hair.

And it’s not about offending it’s about taking facts and being real. Straightening our hair aint got nothing to do with today’s problems. It only places us in a problem among ourselves trying to tell people (women) how they should wear their hair.

Oh yeah...In case yall wondering I wear braids been wearing them over 16 yrs. My views aint coming from a straightening comb or chemical. :)

Peace
Angel

Even on the continent of Africa...traditional (tribal) women wear their hair in many different ways often incorporating natural plant fibers and/or red ochre mixed w/ animal fat as extensions/weave and color... There is no one way that a black woman should wear their hair...

I salute Madam C.J. Walker for her pioneering spirit and her work for civil and women's rights. I also look forward to attending a play (and dessert reception !) about her life this week in Montgomery Alabama where I live.

It's called : "The Dreams of Sarah Breedlove" and it's written and directed by renowned actress and playwright Regina Taylor

http://www.asf.net/play_breedlove.cfm


Much...
Peace & Love
Akilah :spinstar:

if u were you and just you
talk to you maybe
but i can't stand
no bionic lady
try'n hard to look fly
but your looking dummer
if i wanted someone like you
i would have swung with jammie summers....hahahahaha
-phife dog

j/k....she deserves to be acknowledged...she got her money from blacks
i respect that...taint too many black businees people that can say that nowdays...imho
one love
khasm

straight hair = crack!

think about it. :hammer:

LOL you need to stop that Brother James. Straight hair dont equal no crack.LOL

I aint never seen a sister stealing from her momma to get her hair fixed. Nor have I seen her standing in the cornor twitchig cause she aint get her hair did in two months. I have not seen a sister robbing nobody for a $15 dollar wash and set. Come on now, just stop it! LOL

LOL you need to stop that Brother James. Straight hair dont equal no crack.LOL

I aint never seen a sister stealing from her momma to get her hair fixed. Nor have I seen her standing in the corner twitching cause she aint get her hair did in two months. I have not seen a sister robbing nobody for a $15 dollar wash and set. Come on now, just stop it! LOL
you missed the "think about it" part.
have you seen a black person with straight hair who did not have self esteem problems?
isn't straight hair the red flag that announces to the world that a negro has problems?
are self esteem problems damaging to the community? yes!
look at the demographics and then tell me it's not a bigger problem than crack.

LOl! yes I did missed that.

most likely because I've seen alot of tightly curled hair folks suffering from the same self esteem problems. I can tell you one thing I know for sure about the relaxed hair. The residue chemicals from the perm sit under the scalp for atleast 6 months to a year. Now imagine that lye substance eating at the bone of the skull and before it has a chance to disolve, someone slapping another process on top of it. Now thats what I didn't miss about your statement.

low self esteem > crack
think about it.

LOL okay Brother! I gotcha! hahahaha

I wonder how many of us who are criticizing Madam CJ Walker are dating women who have "straight" hair, own/work in beauty salons?


You better say that a little louder Peace

I love a sister I don't care what kind of hair she has thats just me folks

I love a sister I don't care what kind of hair she has thats just me folks

No that's not just you...it is me as well brother Kwaku (although I don't like color dye)! As sister MBA stated, a large consideration women have about hair style is what is easiest to manage. The "social implications" of the hairstyle doesn't factor into the equation. Sister Akilah was also correct when she pointed out that women in Africa also wear their hair in many different styles. In addition another sister in the health/beauty forum, barbiedoll87, pointed out that braids aren't truly "natural" hair (despite popular opinion) because most women use extensions & weaves to put them in. Indeed, we really need to educate ourselves more on what is and isn't African/Black...before we pass judgements on how people dress & behave!

No that's not just you...it is me as well brother Kwaku (although I don't like color dye)! As sister MBA stated, a large consideration women have about hair style is what is easiest to manage. The "social implications" of the hairstyle doesn't factor into the equation. Sister Akilah was also correct when she pointed out that women in Africa also wear their hair in many different styles. In addition another sister in the health/beauty forum, barbiedoll87, pointed out that braids aren't truly "natural" hair (despite popular opinion) because most women use extensions & weaves to put them in. Indeed, we really need to educate ourselves more on what is and isn't African/Black...before we pass judgements on how people dress & behave!


MzBlackAngel, Akilah, PanAfrica, I would venture to say that what happened in the early 20th century with Madame C.J. had very little to do with African Culture... Can I get an amen on that?(smile!)

If not, then, on the entrepreneurial tip for which we have all lauded Madame C.J., lets' look at the Luke's, P.Diddy's, and Masta P's, and Ja Rule's, and all the young and fantasitic entrepreneurial successess of the HipHop Era, and how many of them have gotten rich by denigrating African women of all hues, all sizes, and shapes... Look at how these guys have been taken to task despite all the money-making they've done, and all of the vast entrepreneurial skills they've demonstrated... It seems rather contradictory to me that we can rake these cats over the coals, but not Madame C.J..

If we are going to use her entrepreneurial success as justification for not seeing the negatives, then we need to leave these HipHop cats alone, and let them continue on unabated in their denigrations of Black Women and Black people generally... After all, they are as successful entrepreneurs as Madame C.J. was, so whatever they do should not come under criticism... That is the logic I see being used on this thread...

Peace!
Isaiah

If not, then, on the entrepreneurial tip for which we have all lauded Madame C.J., lets' look at the Luke's, P.Diddy's, and Masta P's, and Ja Rule's, and all the young and fantasitic entrepreneurial successess of the HipHop Era, and how many of them have gotten rich by denigrating African women of all hues, all sizes, and shapes... Look at how these guys have been taken to task despite all the money-making they've done, and all of the vast entrepreneurial skills they've demonstrated... It seems rather contradictory to me that we can rake these cats over the coals, but not Madame C.J..


Now if Madame CJ Walker was denigrating black women, I'd have to agree with you. However she wasn't, she offered beauty products to make women attractive. This is in no way, shape, or form an equal comparison!

Now if Madame CJ Walker was denigrating black women, I'd have to agree with you. However she wasn't, she offered beauty products to make women attractive. This is in no way, shape, or form an equal comparison!

Brother Pan, that would mean that using various hair colors are not denigrating the natural beauty of African women either, so I don't understand what your particular problem with that would be... If you say it is an issue of identification with a beauty standard outside of the African norm, then straightening the hair in the context of these United States is absolutely the same as coloring the hair to achieve a European likeness... We know this, and we should not be disingenuous about it...

Of course a sister can, and will, say that she doesn't even think in this manner when she's getting her perm, but therein' lies the damage that has been done... I am sure the sister on the continent doesn't CONSCIOUSLY think she's trying to achieve a European likeness when she does the skin bleaching thing, but unconsciously(where MOST human thinking actually takes place, at the subconcious level)that is precisely what is happening...

That was NOT, however, the point I was making entirely... It seems to me that Madame C.J. gets a pass because she was a great businesswoman, and using that as a justification, only, to put folks on pedastals is dangerous, hence I put the names of those hiphop entrepreneurs out there...

We are not measuring the degree of wrong, we are measuring WRONG... Using these chemicals and straightening combs is not, nor has it ever been, a healthy thing for African women, and has, in fact, damaged more than it's share of scalps... If folks want to turn away from that sad fact, and say, "yeah, so what", then by all means, do that... Just don't ask me to do same... Don't ask me to suspend my consciousness to say that Madame C.J. was following in the path of her African ancestors when she invented her pomade... We both know that's a lotta nonsense, don't we Pan?(smile!)

That being said, I gave sister her props as an entrepreneur, and that's all she's entitled to from my perspective... Again, from MY PERSPECTIVE...

Peace!
Isaiah

i'll pass judgement.
straight hair is no good for no negro, no time, no how, no where. :puke2:

wow...how did i miss this good post