http://*******************/wil.html

After reading this, especially the part about reversing the male/female roles and creating women with frozen independance, I began to think about where we are now.

A lot of black men (not at Destee of course) today see all black women as b's and w's. Could this be a reaction against the role we played in training our children in line with Willie Lynch's ideas? Is gangsta rap a misguided attempt by young black men to reverse what Lynch did? Or is it a cry of frustration at the seeming impossibility of regaining their manhood against the now feminized black woman still frozen in her independance?

I almost (but not quite) began to see Whitney Houston as a brave heroine reversing the process in her own black and blue way. Is there another way? Can we return our brothers to their proper roles without brutal confrontations? Can we mend the horse ripped body of black manhood and have peace? Do these questions make sense?

I think these questions may be hard to understrand unless you read the article or know something about what Lynch did. Read it and talk to me.

I want you to marinate on this hypothesis, I have formulated. I believe this is the reason why Black Men and other men of the world have abandoned respect for the Independent Female of today. I came to this conclusion, after doing years of research on matriarchal Alkebulan (Africa) and other matriarchal societies including those in Europe, and in Asia. Before reading this post please remember that is a compilation of various readings and my own hypothesis, it is simply an opinion (a disclaimer for you haters):

Before Monotheism, there was an era of time where there was a polytheistic existence. Within this existence their was a belief that the Goddess was supreme ruler. It was only during this time (25,000 – 700 BCE) that this had occurred in written human history; (I really do not think we know the actual dates but those are guesstimate). I believe that the decline of matriarchal rule, Goddess Worship, and respect for came with the Aryans. Most people believe that the Aryans who invaded India were Caucasian, but when they invaded and destroyed the Dravidians, Europeans were still in caves scratching themselves. It was the Aryans that one could attribute the introduction of Monotheism to the world. In my opinion, they were the authors of Hinduism; Hinduism is the oldest system of Monotheism in the world. With monotheism came the decline of female, it came the introduction of patriarchal rule and thus the lack of respect etc, which you speak of today. Some believe that the Aryans invaded India like 1800BC but I believe it was earlier than that let me explain why:

Another argument is that the Aryans were of Iranian origin. However, in my opinion, I believe that the Aryans were really from Alkebulan (Africa).

I do not believe it was the white man, because his thought processes was inferior to anyone in Alkebulan during that period. I also do not believe it was not the Arab, because in my opinion, the Arab was not even really that advanced either until 10th Century AD (The Golden Age of Islam). The Arab (Iranian) or The Caucasian (Indo-European) was not even intelligent enough to devise such a scheme of patriarchal rule. Hinduism is a complex system of patriarchal and class rule, which could only be developed by beings of higher intelligence.

During this time, Alkebulan was the repository of Knowledge. I did some digging and found that in ancient times, a lot of societies in Alkebulan were under matriarchal rule, which finally brings me to the following theory:

The Aryans were really a group of Men from Alkebulan who rebelled against matriarchal rule.

I truly believe that the white man and other races took from our great land, but I believe also that they acquired some of our negative qualities as well. In the study of Alkebulan and it is plethora of societies, no one ever addresses negative behavior. We constantly assume that people of Alkebulan were a utopian people. A people of no evil and only capable of good; however, I believe that this band of men led to monotheism and eventually the decline of Alkebulan.

These Aryans traveled and conquered various lands. They also taught their captives as well. I believe that Aryans of Alkebulan gave the European and other races the tools to destroy his homeland. Those tools are:

The degradation of the female.

Social instability.

The division of the family unit.

The ability to erase historical records.

After inbreeding and mixing, these people eventually died out, but their legacy lives on. If you look at the tactics of any nation that has conquered any land in Alkebulan, it uses those basic four principles.

If a man wants to destroy a woman, he does not do so with violence, he does so emotionally and mentally. Remember once again, it had took take a man from Alkebulan to devise a plan such as this. Other races only killed each other off; their tactical strategies were only violence and war.

Remember river this is only an opinion, but I really think the behavior that you mentioned in your post stems from this ion old problem. I firmly believe that the Men of Alkebulan and some Women who participated in the rebellion are the reason why we are in the state that we are in today.

This state will not be reverted for our race, until we get back to our Egalitarian roots, and abandon the patriarchal ideas of the ancestors who cost us our freedom.

You are a scholar. This goes waaay back to the antediluvian era. Yes, you are right the answer is an egalitarian society. Was there ever such? Our society has built this false dichotomy that giving the other person power means giving up our own power and no one is willing to do that. What we have to do is come up with a definition or definitions of "equal" that both parties can live with, but especially the men. In the universities where all the theories are formed the female professors have their own little matriarchy in which they teach that men should bring out their feminine side and the world would be better off if it were run by women and men were stripped of their natural aggression. Out on the streets the natural man balks at this. They don't want women to act like men or vice versa, but that is the key to equality in the eyes of those who make no secret of their hatred for America. Based on your four principles our society is on the brink of destruction and doesn't even know it.

Now when it comes to Black men and women, there is so much diversity in thought and feeling that it's hard to devise a one size fits all strategy. The struggle of white women for power has nothing to do with our struggle for equality. Then too our struggle has to be fought individual by individual because what's true about one person may not be true about another. One brother may just need to come to an understanding of himself and his sisters. Another man may be down right intent on destruction and dominance. We can't deal with both men the same way.

River you make very excellent points.

I also would like to re-inforce some of my earlier ideas:

I also think another cause of the Degerdation of Black Female was Integeration. Integeration gave the Black Male a chance to assimilate with the White Male; thus, in doing so, the Black Male abandoned his entire thought process about black women, in order to emulate his master. If you notice the decline of the black family and respect of Black Women came after 1960 not before.

I really think you are right too about dealing with types of men. Their is no utopian solution for this problem at all. I think the ultimate answer could be what we as Black Men do for ourselves and for our children. If I make a positive change, then my seed will too; thus, stopping the cycle. Getting people on the band wagon, will be the challeng :-)

Tell me what ya think.

Integration--the big mistake that cost us so much blood, sweat and tears. Like my mom says, if the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence it's because the people on the other side are taking care of it. With the same effort we could have taken care of our grass instead of trying so hard to sit on the white man's grass. When we integrate with others because we think they've got something better then we go over there with that mentality that they are better and no one is left to take care of what is ours so the mentality proves itself.

Yet assimilation for the black man is nothing more than a pipe dream. We've got this big lump that won't melt into the pot. That's not a bad thing for those who aren't trying (because they know and accept who thay are and don't let the white man define their success) but it leads to a rude wake up call for those who want to or think they already have.

You are right, the answer is a positive change in the men. For upper middle class feministe theorist to hand you the answers to what they define as your problem is as about as useeful as a solar powered flashlight. If you look at the sky on a clear night you know you can't count all the stare but you can count the ones you see then come back the next night and count some more. The same with people. You can't change everyone but you can change the ones who cross your path who are willing. And for those who are not willing? They are men. They have free will and we must respect that. When you made the positive changes in your life was it to get on someone's band wagon. Or was it because in your own heart you "knew what you wanted?" I'm quoting you.

River you make very excellent points.

I also would like to re-inforce some of my earlier ideas:

I also think another cause of the Degerdation of Black Female was Integeration. Integeration gave the Black Male a chance to assimilate with the White Male; thus, in doing so, the Black Male abandoned his entire thought process about black women, in order to emulate his master. If you notice the decline of the black family and respect of Black Women came after 1960 not before.

I really think you are right too about dealing with types of men. Their is no utopian solution for this problem at all. I think the ultimate answer could be what we as Black Men do for ourselves and for our children. If I make a positive change, then my seed will too; thus, stopping the cycle. Getting people on the band wagon, will be the challeng :-)

Tell me what ya think.

That's deep!

Amen to that River.

What also trips me out about the feminist, is that they are usually upper class white women, who only look out for upper class whites or others in thier income brackets.

I have never seen feminists embrace the massess as they once did, in the Sojurner Truth, and Lucretia Mott days.

Hey CM--it's gonna get deeper.

Man,

Have you read Terrible Honesty by Ann Douglas? She talks about the Harlem Renaissance and a whole buch of stuff that was going on around World War I. One of the things she points out is how the early white feminists tried to win sufferage for women by promising to use their vote to stamp out the black man's struggle for his rights. So you know they want power by any means necessary. Thay want to exclude black women because the white feminist movement is based on a bond of common victimhood and we are too strong to qualify as victims. Also they say we can't afford the advancned college degtees that will allow us to formulate theories and statistical data so all our writings are on the level of mere description which doesn't count.

In the white man's world the conservative right and the liberal left only pretend to be enemies.

Never read that book but I'll be sure to pick it up!!

River, I got to pick up that book myself. That is an excellent point and it sounds like a great read.

Another thing to point out too about the Harlem Renassiance:

I am paraphrasing so please forgive me:

Dorothy West and author during the Harlem Renassiance stated in a pbs show about her, that female writers were not looked at too fondly by their black counterparts. She specifially talked Langston Hughes.

I guess I made this point to re-inforce what you said in the first post and extend it. I do not think it is just a Rap or Hip Hop problem, but I believe that it hides it ugly faces in all facets of black life. Even W.E.B Dubios aint intend for Black Women to be apart of the Talented Tenth.

Riv

Peace my beloved sista


A lot of black men (not at Destee of course) today see all black women as b's and w's.

I know what a "b" is but what is a "w"?



Is there another way? Can we return our brothers to their proper roles without brutal confrontations? Can we mend the horse ripped body of black manhood and have peace? Do these questions make sense?

Your questions make a lot of sense, but your guess on these solutions are as good as mine.

Many if not most sistaz now no longer want to depend on a black man to provide for and protect them.
They look for the system (white men really) to do it.

Worst of all, many black men relish in the fact that they don't have to do it.
They're rather a woman take care of and protect THEM than the other way around.

Too many black men have grown up in homes where their mothers and sisters feed them, give them money, bail them out of jail, and when they get in trouble a black female judge or attorney or legal-assistant has to come to the fool's rescue and get him out.

Then when he gets to be an old man and can't do for himself, he relies on a black woman to cook for him and clean his behind.


Another problem is most bruthaz in America can get a women and sex so easily they no longer realize the value of women.
We've become spoiled and don't appreciate the full value of women like men in Eastern countries where the number of available women are low and sexuality is kept under strict control.

Overthere, they actually fight wars and kill over women like property because it's so hard to get one.




The only way we can get things back to where they should be is if we have our own society where black men are FORCED to assume the responsibility of protecting and providing for the community.

You HAVE cultivate the soil, you HAVE to keep up the housing and sanitation, you HAVE to learn how to fight and use a weapon to defend your community.

You can't lay around with your hair waved, nails shellaxed smelling like Cool Water and pimping all day....the other men won't let you.

When our women can no longer depend on white men to provide jobs and services for them and MUST depend on us, and when black men can no longer shirk their responsibility.....then you'll see a change.

But right now, we're like spoiled slaves.