Can all these hurricanes be divine payback for the atrocities heaped upon us during and after the middle passage?

In honor of my Ancestors I would like to submit that we shall prevail in spite of all the injustice we've suffered in this society.

Consider that of all of mother nature's weather phenomenon, the hurricane is the single most devasting bar none. Earthquakes, avalanches, suname', tidal waves, nothing compares. In fact tornadoes spin off of hurricanes. 97 of which spun off of hurricane Frances and 114 spun off of Ivan.

Hurricanes are so powerfulf that they are considered the most dominant unrestricted weather force in the history of the world. There have been storms that have reached sustained winds of over 200 miles per hour, lasting more than 7 consecutive days, packing more power than all of the worlds nuclear arsenals combined.

I would also submit that hurricanes don't come off the Pacific, the Arctic nor the Indian Oceans. Hurricanes only come off the Atlantic Ocean. They get started around the northwestern or southwestern shore of Afrika and take virtually the same route as the slave trade.

When you consider the devastation and you look for cause, just think about the unjust manner in which America took over Grenada, overthrew their government and inserted their own. Now Grenada has been leveled, even the jail toppled over and the prisoners set free. And Florida. Think of what America did to the Seminoles and all the other tribes and also how they stole the 2000 election. With all these reasons and more in mind I'm asking could these Hurricanes be the "Breath of My Ancestors"

Before replying please consider the following:

“Breath of My Ancestors”
(The Hurricane)
There’s this truth must be told
its force can’t be contained
About the history and the mystery
in the rage of hurricanes
For you must know the reasons
why the gale force winds do blow
And disburse their vicious vengeance
on southeastern States below
See the bodies of my people
through the Middle Passage came
As cargo in slave ships
so a beast could lay quitclaim
And their limbs were battered and broken
by a heathen with no shame
Who stole us from our homes
then promptly changed our names
Now the laws of cause and effect
so appropriately germane
Come collecting unpaid taxes
in the form of hurricanes
You thought our spirits were beaten
you thought our spirits were tamed
But instead of us defeatin’
God’s temper you inflamed
Now retribution comes to visit
on the winds of hurricanes
Storm clouds gather over Africa
full of slavery’s suffering and pain
They marshal their momentum
full of vengeful hard black rain
Dead-set upon America
as if possessed, insane
Since all those cries for mercy
fell on deaf ears in vain
You must feel the wrath
and the fury of hurricanes
For the girls you stole from Senegal
and the boys from the Ivory Coast
The spirit of their ancestors
haunt Carolinians most
Cause of all the slave-ship harbors
in the many ports of call
Yours were the most insidious
the evilest of them all
And for all you island dwellers
to whom this verse pertains
Your shores made shelter for sellers
of human beings in chains
Thus the Breath of My Ancestors
forge a spiritual weather vane
That plots a course of sorrow
via the gale of hurricanes
In cargo holes
you laid 80 million souls
Like spoons in kitchen cabinets
But now the winds blow down
your trailer towns
Leaving tents to pitch and maggots.
And the law of just requital
extracting its just do
Says you must pay
for the games you play
Virginia and Florida too
So, if the next gale wind you hear
evokes real fear
And the terror seems inhumane
It’s just the Breath of My Ancestors
in the spirit of the hurricane.

Copyright Ty Gray-EL September 2000

7th Poet being a Florida resident and reciever of these hurricanes, I must disagree, I think these hurricanes are just storm systems that developed in the atlantic ocean and hit Florida. I do not think there is nothing supernatural about them. We get hurricanes nearly every year here, and this year just happened to be a particuarly active season.

I truly understand your point, but I just have to firmly disagree.

JMO (Copyright Toylin)

Actually brother Manasaic:

7thPoet's statement is more on point than you realize! Not saying that it is true; however, it is a long standing myth among Africans than Hurricanes are a curse for slavery! They do generate off the African coast and sweep through much of the Middle Passage (the Caribbean, and the Southern US). It is something to think about. Of course if it was truly a curse, it would continue to travel North & swing East once it hit the shores of Europe (then there would be no doubt)!

This is very interesting and it do make you think on the course they take...
thanks for sharing.....

Peace
Angel

I never that hurricanes take that course :jawdrop: Interesting post, indeed.

I understand the African Myths about hurricanes being curses and etc. I just do not believe in any of that stuff, thats all.

When I heard about all the hurricanes, I thought about your piece Brother 7thPoet. An when NY get a real taste of the affects of a hurricane I won't be afraid. Even if my life is lost in the process. We are in the last days and nothing surprizes me any more as for as nature is concern.

This is nothing compared to whats instored to come.

I have to say it really is worth listening to because the path these Hurricanes
taking and which many are started from is a sign and like Pan said what's yet
to come beware of what many feel is a myth just maybe a reality something
to follow now as i watch them closer .

I can't say that I believe this to be true but it certainly makes you stop and think twice about the possibility. I certainly do understand why African people would think this way though. Regardless of whether it's true or not, I really enjoyed reading the poem. Very talented artist.

Queenie :spinstar:

I understand the African Myths about hurricanes being curses and etc. I just do not believe in any of that stuff, thats all.

I must say that I respect your position here. I'm a very practical person myself. I don't believe in myths and mumbo jumbo. Which makes me have to explain how peculiar this is for me.

I had never thought of the possibility of anything like this before. As a writer I always try to be as pragmatic as possible because I want to be perceived as credible. I've written literally hundreds of poems, essays and two books to date. I have always had to craft, shape, mold and sculpt my poetry. It usually takes me days, sometimes weeks or months to complete a poem. But this "Breath of My Ancestors" was different.

A brother sent me an email with the suggestion that these hurricanes might be more than just weather phenomenon. It peaked my interest to the point where I researched and verified the specifics. After I found that all these things were true. I was absolutely flabbergasted! I could not get the idea out of my mind.

The next morning I woke up at 5:AM and the poem came out of me word for word as if I was possessed. I have not changed a syllable.

It was the weirdest experience that I can ever recall. I guess the whole point I want to impress upon you here is that of all the poems I've ever written, this is the only one that was "channeled." Yes, I said channeled cause that's the only explanation I have. I did not consciously write this piece. It just came through me.

Again, I'm not a nut...but that is just how it happened.

I feel you, 7thPoet. Sometimes we all need a push.

thats cool brother 7, but I still think it is just nature :-)

Brother 7thPoet ... i've thought on you and this peace more times than i can count, since first hearing you share it with us in voice chat (http://destee.com/chat) many nights ago. I've even told the story to a few friends, as i am so moved by it! Call me gullible, whatever, but i do not find it difficult to believe at all, that the Spirits of our Ancestors be churning those waters!

I'm glad you posted this, as it makes it easier for me to share with others ... and i never have been able to tell it like you do!

Looking forward to enjoying your company and conversation in voice chat again soon.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

Well, then, I have a question...... If the hurricanes are "payback" from our ancestors, why are the highest casualities in places like Haiti, and why are the highest numbers of casualities Black/ Afrikan people?

Toylin, I could be wrong but I think haiti has a larger death rate because alot of people there sucumbes to dark magic.

Well, then, I have a question...... If the hurricanes are "payback" from our ancestors, why are the highest casualities in places like Haiti, and why are the highest numbers of casualities Black/ Afrikan people?

Sister Toylin:

This is a good question. Hurricanes do the most damage in the Caribbean, which has mostly people of African descent. This is the major reason I do not believe this "myth". And speaking of myths:

Toylin, I could be wrong but I think haiti has a larger death rate because alot of people there sucumbes to dark magic.

Sister Purplemoons:

If "dark magic" or Vondun were that strong every white person in the world would be dead. No the death rate in Haiti is higher than other Caribbean nations because of deforestation. Partly due to the Haitian Revolution (where plantations were burned by rebelling enslaved Africans), and the erosion of the soil due to further removal of trees & plants. Haiti does not have the natural covers that its sisters in the Caribbean (the Dominican Republic being the closest) have. Also factor in poorly constructed housing (particularly in the poorest) areas, and our brothers & sisters in the Carribean do not have that much covers.

As far as Voodoo or Vondun is concerned, this is simply a mixing of Christianity & some native African beliefs. This has been done by many other non-Christian cultures when missionaries converted them. However because of fear & prejudice of the African, anything remotely close to our original culture is meet with fear. I believe you are in Baltimore Purple? The Baltimore Museum of Art ran an exhibit on Vondun about 6 years ago...I went and it was quite educational. If you get a chance I encourage you to learn more about this religion....no spirits will possess you I assure you! Also you can dismiss a lot of stereotypes about "our", "your" people!

After the latest wave of Hurricanes that have hit southern lands
and the massive destruction of New Orleans taken lives of many
black people can the facts be that this is the breath of our Ancestors ????

This make me look deeper i say not for why would they return in spirit
of the winds to destroy it's own , it may sound to be real but truely a
man made mindful myth or is it that when they blow in the path of the
middle passage of slave ship sail it hit the grounds where 400 years back
the white man tamed and it aim to reveal it's great power to land of man
from the the helm of the motherland sea ???

Let's not get it twisted , but are canes the breath of our slaved tamed Ancestors !

i was thinking on this for days so i had to retrack this post and bring it back up.

Oh man, how did I miss this one. I noticed that the thread was started exactly one year ago from katrina hitting the gulf coast. Hmmmmmmmm :thinking:

If this were the case then, why would they hit areas that contain their great, great, great, great, great grandchildren? I would think if it's a matter of vengance the hurricanes would hit mostly white areas.

As a spiritualist, my mind is open to the possibility of human entities having an affect oon the weather in the astral plane. However, I do not know if they would be allowed to cause destruction at this level and even if they did it would not make sense to kill their own kind.

If this were the case then, why would they hit areas that contain their great, great, great, great, great grandchildren? I would think if it's a matter of vengance the hurricanes would hit mostly white areas.

As a spiritualist, my mind is open to the possibility of human entities having an affect oon the weather in the astral plane. However, I do not know if they would be allowed to cause destruction at this level and even if they did it would not make sense to kill their own kind.well, adding more strangeness to the thought: how much of the Afrakan "settlement" in those regions is the result of a conscious decision by Afrakans to leave Afraka on missions of exploration, and how much is the result of escaping from a place that they may not have been meant to get to yet? are these great^nth decendents indigenous to the region? maybe it's a "message" to get up out of there/here and seek their/our own house? aside: isn't jamaica like right in the middle of this path somewhere? how much destruction and death do they suffer from this weather? (i don't follow the news, nor have i looked into the paths of this "inclement weather" enough to place it on a mental map .. or even the physical one over there.)

After the latest wave of Hurricanes that have hit southern lands
and the massive destruction of New Orleans taken lives of many
black people can the facts be that this is the breath of our Ancestors ????

This make me look deeper i say not for why would they return in spirit
of the winds to destroy it's own , it may sound to be real but truely a
man made mindful myth or is it that when they blow in the path of the
middle passage of slave ship sail it hit the grounds where 400 years back
the white man tamed and it aim to reveal it's great power to land of man
from the the helm of the motherland sea ???

Let's not get it twisted , but are canes the breath of our slaved tamed Ancestors !

i was thinking on this for days so i had to retrack this post and bring it back up.good looking out, brother rich! most timely, remindful and thought provoking. yeah, using those prevailing winds/currents to get this "work force" over here could have pissed somebody off, eh?

there is only one planet and everything there is interconnected! what goes around, comes around. and how many other "ancient wisdoms" and such have come down in one form or another?

and, then, there is sek's point: just shy of one year since this was written?!! kinda spooky. or did rich just keep this post in his mind so that he could bring it up at a most opportune time to "creep us out" a bit? :lol: <cue twilight zone theme>

three days from it's one year anniversary!! just goes to show; humans do know!! great swing of that Axe!

("enslaved", ok; "tamed"?? i don't think so!! some, maybe, kinda; there're a lot that wouldn't be!! unfortunately, those prolly didn't have many descendants, tho, eh? <ugh> rats, i guess i gotta retract this statement, then, hunh? ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H)

I must say that I respect your position here. I'm a very practical person myself. I don't believe in myths and mumbo jumbo. Which makes me have to explain how peculiar this is for me.

I had never thought of the possibility of anything like this before. As a writer I always try to be as pragmatic as possible because I want to be perceived as credible. I've written literally hundreds of poems, essays and two books to date. I have always had to craft, shape, mold and sculpt my poetry. It usually takes me days, sometimes weeks or months to complete a poem. But this "Breath of My Ancestors" was different.

A brother sent me an email with the suggestion that these hurricanes might be more than just weather phenomenon. It peaked my interest to the point where I researched and verified the specifics. After I found that all these things were true. I was absolutely flabbergasted! I could not get the idea out of my mind.

The next morning I woke up at 5:AM and the poem came out of me word for word as if I was possessed. I have not changed a syllable.

It was the weirdest experience that I can ever recall. I guess the whole point I want to impress upon you here is that of all the poems I've ever written, this is the only one that was "channeled." Yes, I said channeled cause that's the only explanation I have. I did not consciously write this piece. It just came through me.

Again, I'm not a nut...but that is just how it happened.
and by such an avenue does all "wisdom" and "knowledge" originate!! exactly that "channel"!! just straight up "out of the blue" ... or from that "Hidden Sun"!

well, adding more strangeness to the thought: how much of the Afrakan "settlement" in those regions is the result of a conscious decision by Afrakans to leave Afraka on missions of exploration, and how much is the result of escaping from a place that they may not have been meant to get to yet? are these great^nth decendents indigenous to the region? maybe it's a "message" to get up out of there/here and seek their/our own house? aside: isn't jamaica like right in the middle of this path somewhere? how much destruction and death do they suffer from this weather? (i don't follow the news, nor have i looked into the paths of this "inclement weather" enough to place it on a mental map .. or even the physical one over there.)

True... but if they were really out for vengenance they would kill the whites and then their 'children' wouldn't have to worry about relocating.

I agree it's eerie that this thread was created long before Hurricane Katrina came, but as of yet I have not seen a 'supernatural' explanation that makes sense to what seems logical. This doesn't mean that I cannot ponder the possibility of human spirits having an influence on the natural processes of earth... I just can't swallow the 'death and destruction-will-make-you-stronger-' philosophy.

If that's true, then I wonder what did we do to make our ancestors so mad? We already got somebody else's foot(turned sideways too, I might add) broken deep off into our rectum. I mean, God dang! How much punishment can we endure?

Deepvoice that's everlasting true this why i say it's a deep mindful look
with so much corruption maybe or could it be our Ancestors coming , calling
as many from poverty this massa struggling land call A-mer-i-kan surely it
takes the pathway of the slave ships and twist rumble and roar from sea to land
but it's a myth and greater study need to make me a full believer , but hummm!
can it be the breath of our own from the past??

Can all these hurricanes be divine payback for the atrocities heaped upon us during and after the middle passage?

In honor of my Ancestors I would like to submit that we shall prevail in spite of all the injustice we've suffered in this society.

Consider that of all of mother nature's weather phenomenon, the hurricane is the single most devasting bar none. Earthquakes, avalanches, suname', tidal waves, nothing compares. In fact tornadoes spin off of hurricanes. 97 of which spun off of hurricane Frances and 114 spun off of Ivan.

Hurricanes are so powerfulf that they are considered the most dominant unrestricted weather force in the history of the world. There have been storms that have reached sustained winds of over 200 miles per hour, lasting more than 7 consecutive days, packing more power than all of the worlds nuclear arsenals combined.

I would also submit that hurricanes don't come off the Pacific, the Arctic nor the Indian Oceans. Hurricanes only come off the Atlantic Ocean. They get started around the northwestern or southwestern shore of Afrika and take virtually the same route as the slave trade.

When you consider the devastation and you look for cause, just think about the unjust manner in which America took over Grenada, overthrew their government and inserted their own. Now Grenada has been leveled, even the jail toppled over and the prisoners set free. And Florida. Think of what America did to the Seminoles and all the other tribes and also how they stole the 2000 election. With all these reasons and more in mind I'm asking could these Hurricanes be the "Breath of My Ancestors"

Before replying please consider the following:

“Breath of My Ancestors”
(The Hurricane)
There’s this truth must be told
its force can’t be contained
About the history and the mystery
in the rage of hurricanes
For you must know the reasons
why the gale force winds do blow
And disburse their vicious vengeance
on southeastern States below
See the bodies of my people
through the Middle Passage came
As cargo in slave ships
so a beast could lay quitclaim
And their limbs were battered and broken
by a heathen with no shame
Who stole us from our homes
then promptly changed our names
Now the laws of cause and effect
so appropriately germane
Come collecting unpaid taxes
in the form of hurricanes
You thought our spirits were beaten
you thought our spirits were tamed
But instead of us defeatin’
God’s temper you inflamed
Now retribution comes to visit
on the winds of hurricanes
Storm clouds gather over Africa
full of slavery’s suffering and pain
They marshal their momentum
full of vengeful hard black rain
Dead-set upon America
as if possessed, insane
Since all those cries for mercy
fell on deaf ears in vain
You must feel the wrath
and the fury of hurricanes
For the girls you stole from Senegal
and the boys from the Ivory Coast
The spirit of their ancestors
haunt Carolinians most
Cause of all the slave-ship harbors
in the many ports of call
Yours were the most insidious
the evilest of them all
And for all you island dwellers
to whom this verse pertains
Your shores made shelter for sellers
of human beings in chains
Thus the Breath of My Ancestors
forge a spiritual weather vane
That plots a course of sorrow
via the gale of hurricanes
In cargo holes
you laid 80 million souls
Like spoons in kitchen cabinets
But now the winds blow down
your trailer towns
Leaving tents to pitch and maggots.
And the law of just requital
extracting its just do
Says you must pay
for the games you play
Virginia and Florida too
So, if the next gale wind you hear
evokes real fear
And the terror seems inhumane
It’s just the Breath of My Ancestors
in the spirit of the hurricane.

Copyright Ty Gray-EL September 2000


Speaking of breath of the Ancestors, the Orisha Oya comes to mind after reading this thread.

Oya is the powerful Goddess of storms, tornadoes and Hurricanes in the Yoruba Pantheon. She is known as either the sister of the Storm God Chango or one of his 3 wives. Oya is known to accompany Chango during his thunderstorms. Known as a fierce warrior, Oya is also a protectress of pregnant women who call on her to SETTLE DISPUTES, during pregancy. Hmmmmm :thinking:

As the Goddess of change, she brings down dead wood to make room for the new and she uses her machete or sword to clear a path for new growth. She is believed to watch over the newly dead and assist them as they make the transition from life.

Her number is 9 (september being the 9th month?), Her color is burgundy or
purple, Her metal is copper. Offerings to Oya include eggplants, red wine, coins and cloth

Toylin, I could be wrong but I think haiti has a larger death rate because alot of people there sucumbes to dark magic.


You're on the right track with this observation, but I think a more accurate word for "dark" magick would be unchecked or inbalanced.

However I agree with your basic point, and that is... what you put out, you will always get back.

well, adding more strangeness to the thought: how much of the Afrakan "settlement" in those regions is the result of a conscious decision by Afrakans to leave Afraka on missions of exploration, and how much is the result of escaping from a place that they may not have been meant to get to yet? are these great^nth decendents indigenous to the region? maybe it's a "message" to get up out of there/here and seek their/our own house? aside: isn't jamaica like right in the middle of this path somewhere? how much destruction and death do they suffer from this weather? (i don't follow the news, nor have i looked into the paths of this "inclement weather" enough to place it on a mental map .. or even the physical one over there.)

maybe it's a "message" to get up out of there/here hmmm, ya think? ;)

Speaking of breath of the Ancestors, the Orisha Oya comes to mind after reading this thread.

Oya is the powerful Goddess of storms, tornadoes and Hurricanes in the Yoruba Pantheon. She is known as either the sister of the Storm God Chango or one of his 3 wives. Oya is known to accompany Chango during his thunderstorms. Known as a fierce warrior, Oya is also a protectress of pregnant women who call on her to SETTLE DISPUTES, during pregancy. Hmmmmm :thinking:

As the Goddess of change, she brings down dead wood to make room for the new and she uses her machete or sword to clear a path for new growth. She is believed to watch over the newly dead and assist them as they make the transition from life.

Her number is 9 (september being the 9th month?), Her color is burgundy or
purple, Her metal is copper. Offerings to Oya include eggplants, red wine, coins and cloth

very interesting......

I find it just as probable that the ancestors' breath may be aimed at us. They may be angry at us, their children, for letting them down, When you consider all of their strivings and all they had to go through to survive to insure our survival, I could see them being pretty upset at us for being so comfortable and compliant.

I also often wonder whether Dr. King and other ancestors who paid the ultimate price with their lives, would have done what they did--if they could see us now.

On the other hand, what we are going through now--including slavery--is a tiny, invisible dot on the timeline of Black folks' existence on the earth. So I try to keep that in perspective and realize that this ugly time for us 'too shall pass.'

I find it just as probable that the ancestors' breath may be aimed at us. They may be angry at us, their children, for letting them down, When you consider all of their strivings and all they had to go through to survive to insure our survival, I could see them being pretty upset at us for being so comfortable and compliant.

I also often wonder whether Dr. King and other ancestors who paid the ultimate price with their lives, would have done what they did--if they could see us now.

On the other hand, what we are going through now--including slavery--is a tiny, invisible dot on the timeline of Black folks' existence on the earth. So I try to keep that in perspective and realize that this ugly time for us 'too shall pass.'


In the context and legacy of ART's, specifically as it relates to Yoruba initiates in addition to many others (such as Vodun and Palo Mayombe), there are a number of spiritual tenets that must NOT be overlooked... Principally among them is the understanding that ancestors exist, and they are to honored, respected and even consulted.

If this connection is severed, then we must prepare to suffer the consequences

I agree that each generation should be taught reverence for the ancestors.

When I think about my ancestors, I shiver sometimes. I believe they are usually near. And whenever I have to venture into the bowels of hell on earth, I do consult them and draw upon them and the Creator to give me the courage and determination that I need to survive or succeed. I always talk to them when I'm about to make any major decision. It’s funny that after I’ve consulted them and asked them to be with me, I feel so warm, and safe, and it just makes me feel like laughing.

I agree that each generation should be taught reverence for the ancestors.

When I think about my ancestors, I shiver sometimes. I believe they are usually near. And whenever I have to venture into the bowels of hell on earth, I do consult them and draw upon them and the Creator to give me the courage and determination that I need to survive or succeed. I always talk to them when I'm about to make any major decision. It’s funny that after I’ve consulted them and asked them to be with me, I feel so warm, and safe, and it just makes me feel like laughing.


Awsome!

May I ask if you know the names of any of them, do you pour libations or food offerings for them?

Just curious

In the context and legacy of ART's, specifically as it relates to Yoruba initiates in addition to many others (such as Vodun and Palo Mayombe), there are a number of spiritual tenets that must NOT be overlooked... Principally among them is the understanding that ancestors exist, and they are to honored, respected and even consulted.

If this connection is severed, then we must prepare to suffer the consequences

Do ancestors mean any human spirit in our bloodline that is now dwelling in the astral plane, or do they have to be dead for a long time? For example, would a spirit like my father who has been dead for three years be considered my ancestor?

Do ancestors mean any human spirit in our bloodline that is now dwelling in the astral plane, or do they have to be dead for a long time? For example, would a spirit like my father who has been dead for three years be considered my ancestor?

An ancestor is anyone in your bloodline sistah, including recently departed family members.

Yes, I know names of several generations of ancestors but I don't call on or talk to all of them. I talk to the ones I know better.

We usually pour libations to the ancestors at events like group meals, parties, etc. before we start and when we end.

Yes, I know names of several generations of ancestors but I don't call on or talk to all of them. I talk to the ones I know better.

We usually pour libations to the ancestors at events like group meals, parties, etc. before we start and when we end.

Beautiful. Do you have a shrine dedicated to any of them?

No, we don’t have a shrine. We do not practice ATR. We just incorporate certain cultural practices into our normal, regular routines. As you may realize, there are African retentions down south that everybody just did and do in rural areas, not realizing that it’s an African retention. Sadly, as older people die, they take a lot of this knowledge with them ‘cause younger Black folks don’t want to be bothered with it. When I was younger, I was the same way.

A concrete, prime example of this is the basket-weaving tradition in South Carolina. This is an art form that Blacks brought from Africa and have held onto for centuries now. But as you may also know, white folks have been down there for years learning how to make those baskets and now some of them make them and sell them at high-end craft shows all over the country. Of course, they don’t give credit to this artistry as an African art.

No, we don’t have a shrine. We do not practice ATR. We just incorporate certain cultural practices into our normal, regular routines. As you may realize, there are African retentions down south that everybody just did and do in rural areas, not realizing that it’s an African retention. Sadly, as older people die, they take a lot of this knowledge with them ‘cause younger Black folks don’t want to be bothered with it. When I was younger, I was the same way.

A concrete, prime example of this is the basket-weaving tradition in South Carolina. This is an art form that Blacks brought from Africa and have held onto for centuries now. But as you may also know, white folks have been down there for years learning how to make those baskets and now some of them make them and sell them at high-end craft shows all over the country. Of course, they don’t give credit to this artistry as an African art.


You're right about some younger black folks not wanting to be bothered with it. It's also funny you mention white folks "learning" how to make baskets et al, this is no different than white folks learning how to "play" the blues. This is not the only thing white folks are learning, they're also learning and being inducted into ATR's, here and the rest of the African Diaspora. This spells (no pun intended) disaster for us. Although a growing number of our people are being initiated into ATR's, not nearly enough of us know how to properly address and "nourish" our ancestors, nor do they know how to implore them to petition to the creator, on behalf of the living.

Sekhemu, here's an add-on. I met a white man at a craft show. He was very interested in some of my art items and ordered a piece. When I delivered it to his house, he showed me his collection of African art of all types-pieces from Africa and from the African diaspora. He actually had no European art of any type in his house that was visible.

But what really blew me away was his collection of books of every genre about Africa and Disaporans. He said he’s been doing this type of reading all of his life. I mean he had so many books about us in that house and he said he gets most books that are written by Black authors these days too. They were all there. He said he orders them on the internet and sometimes gets several deliveries a week. He said he rarely buys books on any other topic or by any white author unless they’re writing about Black people. His Black music collection was awesome too. He has a lot of African fabric too and even ceramics with African designs.

When we started talking about racial issues, once again I was blown away. He knew way more about my history and current events worldwide than I did/do. I got real quiet real fast because I was ashamed I knew so little.

I finally asked him why he was so interested in Black folks. He began to talk about how “rich” we are in so many ways. He went on an on in great, glowing detail mentioning things about us that we take for granted.

The conversation brought home to me that some of them know our value, a value that escapes many of us.

Anyway, he has turned out to be a good customer of mine. I sometimes wonder whether he is “passing.”

Sekhemu, here's an add-on. I met a white man at a craft show. He was very interested in some of my art items and ordered a piece. When I delivered it to his house, he showed me his collection of African art of all types-pieces from Africa and from the African diaspora. He actually had no European art of any type in his house that was visible.

But what really blew me away was his collection of books of every genre about Africa and Disaporans. He said he’s been doing this type of reading all of his life. I mean he had so many books about us in that house and he said he gets most books that are written by Black authors these days too. They were all there. He said he orders them on the internet and sometimes gets several deliveries a week. He said he rarely buys books on any other topic or by any white author unless they’re writing about Black people. His Black music collection was awesome too. He has a lot of African fabric too and even ceramics with African designs.

When we started talking about racial issues, once again I was blown away. He knew way more about my history and current events worldwide than I did/do. I got real quiet real fast because I was ashamed I knew so little.

I finally asked him why he was so interested in Black folks. He began to talk about how “rich” we are in so many ways. He went on an on in great, glowing detail mentioning things about us that we take for granted.

The conversation brought home to me that some of them know our value, a value that escapes many of us.

Anyway, he has turned out to be a good customer of mine. I sometimes wonder whether he is “passing.”


lol @ "passing", whether he was passing or not, is almost irrelevant. White folks buying black art and literature is certainly alarming, but what is more alarming is our people inducting non-blacks into our secret societies. This is a serious, serious problem.

Why do Black folks do this? Aren't most Blacks who practice ATRs more concious? Do they think that because white folks descended from Black folks, that it's okay? Now, this may be a stupid question, but how does this negatively impact Black folks?

Why do Black folks do this? Aren't most Blacks who practice ATRs more concious? Do they think that because white folks descended from Black folks, that it's okay? Now, this may be a stupid question, but how does this negatively impact Black folks?

They do it for various reasons, often and chiefly among them... Money. Some of them do this because they have purposely gone against the warnings of their ancestors or have failed to make an accurate reading during divination. And yes, some of them actually believe in being color blind, and see no harm in teaching the white man these mysteries, obviously they have failed to learn the lessons of the past.

They do it for various reasons, often and chiefly among them... Money. Some of them do this because they have purposely gone against the warnings of their ancestors or have failed to make an accurate reading during divination. And yes, some of them actually believe in being color blind, and see no harm in teaching the white man these mysteries, obviously they have failed to learn the lessons of the past.

Greetings Brother,

Sadly this one house I was associated with contained a few oyinbos. At the time, I didn't have a real stance one way or the other regarding whites in our traditions. But these white vultures during ceremonies looked disorganized, clumsy, mechanical and overall chaotic with their movements and supplantions, frequently shadowing others in the house who knew what to do and what to do it. Imagine presenting yourself before the spirits and there is someone to your right or left mimicking you with a 2 second delay. Unnerving.... However, what can be said about the obrone is, if you read his stuff about the tradition on the net, you would swear he was an expert. He knew much "knowledge" on the tradition, but since Black people are more experience and participation based, what he actually knew was nothing compared to what he could do and how he could do. At ceremonies and worship, he was the laughingstock.

The main reason for this particular obrone, including a few others, was of course due to the cash... gotta get that money. It was rumored he makes over $100,000 a year. Well, guess what this oyinbo was doing? He was taking pictures of the ceremonies and writing articles about certain intellectual aspects of the tradition to sell to alternative magazines for profit. All the while his godmother struggled to get her gas turned off and other bills were due. Then this individual proceeded to secure a book deal for solitary newagers interested in the ATRs. I hope this time the godmother gets her justice.

Just my story,
Blackbird

Greetings Brother,

Sadly this one house I was associated with contained a few oyinbos. At the time, I didn't have a real stance one way or the other regarding whites in our traditions. But these white vultures during ceremonies looked disorganized, clumsy, mechanical and overall chaotic with their movements and supplantions, frequently shadowing others in the house who knew what to do and what to do it. Imagine presenting yourself before the spirits and there is someone to your right or left mimicking you with a 2 second delay. Unnerving.... However, what can be said about the obrone is, if you read his stuff about the tradition on the net, you would swear he was an expert. He knew much "knowledge" on the tradition, but since Black people are more experience and participation based, what he actually knew was nothing compared to what he could do and how he could do. At ceremonies and worship, he was the laughingstock.

The main reason for this particular obrone, including a few others, was of course due to the cash... gotta get that money. It was rumored he makes over $100,000 a year. Well, guess what this oyinbo was doing? He was taking pictures of the ceremonies and writing articles about certain intellectual aspects of the tradition to sell to alternative magazines for profit. All the while his godmother struggled to get her gas turned off and other bills were due. Then this individual proceeded to secure a book deal for solitary newagers interested in the ATRs. I hope this time the godmother gets her justice.

Just my story,
Blackbird

Thanks for sharing brotha. Unfortunately sometimes we need to shed light on the issue.

I knew a sistah that was an initiate in Ifa, and told me rather matter of factly that her house openly accepts the oyinbo. It was if she was proud of it.

You're right about the devil Neimark, he's even advocated gays and lesbians seek out initiation into ATR's

This is an interesting idea. However, considering the fact that many of my ancestors, or fore-parents have inhabited Orleans parish for over two hundred years and are now buried under water and mud, why would this have occured right at the time I was planning on returning home to re-discover my family's roots.

Riada I used to feel like you feel. I used to think that an automatic consciousness would be there just because they were in Afrikan tradition. But it is amazingly opposite. So far as the weather occurances being Ancestral I would have to disagree that they are so. These hurricanes and the like have been coming to Amerikkka inthe way they have cyclically well before we were enslaved in the Amerikkkas.

Can all these hurricanes be divine payback for the atrocities heaped upon us during and after the middle passage?

In honor of my Ancestors I would like to submit that we shall prevail in spite of all the injustice we've suffered in this society.

Consider that of all of mother nature's weather phenomenon, the hurricane is the single most devasting bar none. Earthquakes, avalanches, suname', tidal waves, nothing compares. In fact tornadoes spin off of hurricanes. 97 of which spun off of hurricane Frances and 114 spun off of Ivan.

Hurricanes are so powerfulf that they are considered the most dominant unrestricted weather force in the history of the world. There have been storms that have reached sustained winds of over 200 miles per hour, lasting more than 7 consecutive days, packing more power than all of the worlds nuclear arsenals combined.

I would also submit that hurricanes don't come off the Pacific, the Arctic nor the Indian Oceans. Hurricanes only come off the Atlantic Ocean. They get started around the northwestern or southwestern shore of Afrika and take virtually the same route as the slave trade.

When you consider the devastation and you look for cause, just think about the unjust manner in which America took over Grenada, overthrew their government and inserted their own. Now Grenada has been leveled, even the jail toppled over and the prisoners set free. And Florida. Think of what America did to the Seminoles and all the other tribes and also how they stole the 2000 election. With all these reasons and more in mind I'm asking could these Hurricanes be the "Breath of My Ancestors"

Before replying please consider the following:

“Breath of My Ancestors”
(The Hurricane)
There’s this truth must be told
its force can’t be contained
About the history and the mystery
in the rage of hurricanes
For you must know the reasons
why the gale force winds do blow
And disburse their vicious vengeance
on southeastern States below
See the bodies of my people
through the Middle Passage came
As cargo in slave ships
so a beast could lay quitclaim
And their limbs were battered and broken
by a heathen with no shame
Who stole us from our homes
then promptly changed our names
Now the laws of cause and effect
so appropriately germane
Come collecting unpaid taxes
in the form of hurricanes
You thought our spirits were beaten
you thought our spirits were tamed
But instead of us defeatin’
God’s temper you inflamed
Now retribution comes to visit
on the winds of hurricanes
Storm clouds gather over Africa
full of slavery’s suffering and pain
They marshal their momentum
full of vengeful hard black rain
Dead-set upon America
as if possessed, insane
Since all those cries for mercy
fell on deaf ears in vain
You must feel the wrath
and the fury of hurricanes
For the girls you stole from Senegal
and the boys from the Ivory Coast
The spirit of their ancestors
haunt Carolinians most
Cause of all the slave-ship harbors
in the many ports of call
Yours were the most insidious
the evilest of them all
And for all you island dwellers
to whom this verse pertains
Your shores made shelter for sellers
of human beings in chains
Thus the Breath of My Ancestors
forge a spiritual weather vane
That plots a course of sorrow
via the gale of hurricanes
In cargo holes
you laid 80 million souls
Like spoons in kitchen cabinets
But now the winds blow down
your trailer towns
Leaving tents to pitch and maggots.
And the law of just requital
extracting its just do
Says you must pay
for the games you play
Virginia and Florida too
So, if the next gale wind you hear
evokes real fear
And the terror seems inhumane
It’s just the Breath of My Ancestors
in the spirit of the hurricane.

Copyright Ty Gray-EL September 2000

The more I think about this perhaps it has to do more with our own discretions, our youth disrespecting our Elders and our Elders forgetting or neglecting to Honor Our Ancestors.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm ???????:thinking:

I was directly affected by Hurricane Rita, I am from Beaumont Texas and I have always thought that it was the wrath of our ancestors reaking havoc on the lands which stole so much from them.
This is truly quite interesting and intriguing
I really don't see any other logical explanation to it!