I really hate to be the bearer of truth, especially truth that lurks within us subconsciously and that few will consciously admit because of what it says about their self perception of manhood or womanhood...but the facts are this:

A. The movements of the 50s and 60s were generated by several factors.
national unrest, not only on the part of our people, but by the white woman as well in terms of how her own man was treating her on all fronts of life. Therefore from a social perspective, the nation as a whole was going through a change.

B. The leaders among us who rose to the occasion were able to do so because of the energy that not only still existed because of the OUTRIGHT IN YOUR FACE RACISM AND INEQUITY in America, but because it was a continuation of the energy started from slavery in our quest to be free.

C. The death of our spirit and energy began the process of dying with integration as little by little our people became more like their people in our thoughts, habits, perspectives and lifestyle.

D. With integration we began to lose our dignity, respect, honor and self perception of what it was to be black. Those of our leaders who were not killed or imprisoned were paid off. We as a people saw all of this and it subconsciously had an affect upon us. In essence, we were waking up to the corruption of the system, the power of money in regard to that, and the lack of trust because of it.

E. Due to the Freedom of Information Act,we equally learned horrible realities concerning those we mistakenly had perceived as leaders only to discover that they too were working with the government.

F. Due to media, the power of money, the reshaping of our reality to one more closely aliegned with theirs, many of our people really bought the idea that white people in America had changed and that we were living in a more equitable society and country.

G. Before any of these things, the white man NEVER HAD A BLACK FRONT FOR HIS OWN PROTECTION. Now he had reached the point, due to money and power, whereby he had created his own black front or political spokesman/woman for his protection and diversion. In essence, we now have black so called leaders who will take the media platform to defend or justify the actions of white people.

H. Black people by this time had assimilated into white society to the point of living parrallel lives as white people do...dressing the same, schooling the same, eating the same, and as such, our value system of life, self and people went with it.

I. The black cause and black leader was becoming a thing of the past to be associated with a non progressive mentality and inability to see that things were supposedly different...that everything is about money now.

J. Our inability to recognize that it wasn't about money and that money is nothing more than a tool or weapon, soon had us participating in the death and destruction presently going on in our communities as the real face or cause of this is now perceived to be black instead of the white one we don't see behind the scenes. (Cause and Effect)

K. Everything previously said simply served as a divisionary tool to maintain our disunity and destruction to the point of not trusting each other or any leader that might attempt to surface for our own good.

L. So successful has this been, that right now, we don't even want a black leader...just a leader. We don't care if he's white or orange, cause racism don't exist anymore as far as many of us are concerned. WE ARE AMERICAN is the thought process however subconscious it may be.

M. We learned through the freedom of information act the lives that were purposely destroyed even down to today. (What black people or leaders are addressing that ?)

We learned how crack was created and purposely put in our communities to destroy us and our future. (What black people or leaders are addressing that ?)

We learned how with it, laws have been changed to imprison our youth for long periods of time because of our population growth over theirs. (What black people or leaders are addressing that ?)

We learned how aids was purposely created and is now ravishing our communities in America and Africa. (What black people or leaders are addressing that ?)

N. The ultimate question is why not ? The ultimate and unspoken answer is that "WE ARE AFRAID OF WHITE PEOPLE" WE HAVE BECOME COMFORTABLE IN THE ILLUSION OF MATERIALITY AND MONEY AND THAT HAS BECOME OUR NEW COMFORT ZONE. NO ONE WANTS TO LOSE THAT OR JEPORDIZE THEIR FREEDOM, LIFE OR FAMILY AFTER SEEING AND LIVING THE RESULTS OF THOSE THAT CAME BEFORE THEM. WE THEREFORE ARE AFRAID TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH, FOR WITH IT COMES THE BURDEN OF RESPONSIBILITY.

. While I agree with you Keita. I have to say. LIFE IS HARD. Enough just trying to crank out a living. It's a complex game of cards. Over whelming and many have taken the passive role of going along. The rise and fall of black america is just that.

No one is going to hand hold you in this trip. No one is going to share and tell you how to get things better or how to make things better in your life. Many don't know how and are afraid of committing the effort.

If it isn't immediate support or gratification, it's hard to have someone see that the effort is worth the attempt. Sow a seed and cultivate it! Simple. Sling lots of mud, and what sticks is yours. What you do today won't come to fruition until a later season. But the process isn't used. The weeds grow for lack of cultivation and self defeating modes and actions come too easily into play. NO BODY CAN WORK THE SOIL BETTER THAN A BLACK PERSON. We just need to get our hands dirty. Did you know if we are ever going to make a difference in saving the youth. We need to get them rooted in cultivating something . You must touch GOD's earth to grow. Plant a tree! Fruit Trees in the hood. I'll show up to gather some apples for my pies. Buy a pie, from Miss Mayella. She can slam a apple pie. :lips:

Rent a bus. Take the kids fishing. Nothing builds patience and understanding more than waiting for a fish to get on your hook.

We do come up and change things when there is an opportunity to do so.

If we talked about those black so-called leaders and black caucus’s that sold and still sell our interest. Out loud. That wouldn't make a change. It would fester more division.

We can go after the CONGRESS. We could go against the U.N. We could go against the World Bank. We could challenge the institutions that regulate all aspects of our lives. That would make a statement. That would make a change. That would get our so-called leaders speaking... of course to appease us, but they would have to step aside because we aren't finished. It should never stop. It's true power of the people.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

keita
I saw the thread nnqueen started "do we need a black leader"...and didn't even go in to it..because my mind raced to "we need people who will just spend time cultivating young minds and working everyday with the youth"
not some media persona set up for us..
so when I saw your thread i jumped in..not knowing what except for the title which invited me in.
I belonged (i am the last of that immediate group) to a family so against integration..my father was right, we would begin to lose our history, names of schools in the south would be lost, black history would cease to exist, etc..
I thought Hodee put into words so many of my thoughts and agree with him fully...
important thread...thanks for bringing it

Brother Keita, of all the "truths" that you outlined, I found the following quote to be the most profound and thought-provoking:


N. The ultimate question is why not ? The ultimate and unspoken answer is that "WE ARE AFRAID OF WHITE PEOPLE" WE HAVE BECOME COMFORTABLE IN THE ILLUSION OF MATERIALITY AND MONEY AND THAT HAS BECOME OUR NEW COMFORT ZONE. NO ONE WANTS TO LOSE THAT OR JEPORDIZE THEIR FREEDOM, LIFE OR FAMILY AFTER SEEING AND LIVING THE RESULTS OF THOSE THAT CAME BEFORE THEM. WE THEREFORE ARE AFRAID TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH, FOR WITH IT COMES THE BURDEN OF RESPONSIBILITY.

Brother HODEE and Sister deepy, for the most part I agree with your sentiments as well, but my sense is that the essence of what you wrote, to a large degree for the masses of Black people, lie within the above quotation. There's no question that we know fully what the problems are; we know the solutions to the problems; but something has us FROZEN or at the least, moving in hyper-slow motion and I agree with Brother Keita, it stems from our fears and insecurities that lessens our will to do what we know we must do.

I don't want to spend time now in discussing the psychological dynamics of what has caused this "fear" in most Black people because I think we will likely agree that its roots are due to racism and we've got a number of threads already where we discuss or beat that horse. But this thread is a good feeding ground for talking more specifically about the baby steps then giant leaps we need to take to rid ourselves of it. Brother HODEE I think your comments are on point in that regard.

We know what is important for us to know about our plight. But we need to stop sticking our hand in the sand and pretending that it doesn't exist. We can't just blink our eyes like "Jeannie" and make the bad monsters go away. If we know what we must do and still can't find the energy or courage to motivate ourselves to do anything, then can someone with leadership qualities and courage help to motivate us?

Some of us get resentful of the notion of a Black leader being necessary or having value, yet we give ourselves permission to listen to white people everyday and let them influence our decisions. What's up with that?

Oh, and Brother Keita, please, never "hate" to be the bearer of truth...for those who are in the know to silence their voices will surely cause us to "die" faster. Keep bringing it to us!

Queenie :spinstar:

Thought provoking post. I have harbored these suspicions for years, and everytime I tried to bring a group of people together to plan to DO something, they all shied away. I agree. We need people that will constantly motivate and educate our young people so they can, in turn, movtivate and educate the next generation. If we are to survive as a race, as a people, we must "get up, stand up" and don't sit down.. For anyone.

Yeah, how 'bout us, at Destee's Discussion Forums, putting our resources together, and building a think tank, and long-lasting institution that guides the interests of our nation, and children yet unborn... We can do that, we must do that! Our ancestors built stuff from nothing... They didn't have any safety nets, they didn't have grants and white man's support - but they had solidarity... We have integration(LAUGH!)

That is why African people don't wanna sweep in front of their streets... Let the Sanitation department do dat, dat's dey job... Clean up that urine in the back staircase... Nope, let the housing authority do that, I jes live hunh... Let's support Joe's fishfry round the corner... Nope, I rather eat at Why Chang Kaine, he cheepa(smile!) Aint got consciousness the first that in order for our community to grow, we must make it strong... In order for the community to be clean, we gots to keep it clean... In order for us to have businesses in our communities, we must establish and build them... Macy's is big, Sach's 5th Avenue is big, because African people made 'em big... instead, we're waiting on the White man to do it for us... That's Integration...

Peace!
Isaiah

I really hate to be the bearer of truth,...

I know it a [censored] job but, somebody has got to do it.


H. Black people by this time had assimilated into white society to the point of living parrallel lives as white people do...dressing the same, schooling the same, eating the same, and as such, our value system of life, self and people went with it.


Nice Outline. I like the one above in particular. May I add my thoughts?


Blacks have unconditionally accepted the values, morals, and it standards of beauty. Even with this emphasis on conformity to white ideals, Blacks will never gain the acceptance they seek. Despite his "wealth" the Black man will continually be the subject of contempt for whites and consequently will be excluded from participation in white society. These feelings of rejection by the white world manifest themselves in self-hatred.

This self-hatred will ultimate leads to a lost of identity. (as the pretended racial pride me becomes hollow).

Blacks (in America) are in the process of becoming NOBODY.


Peace,
Lazarus
sonsofthediaspora.org (www.sonsofthediaspora.org)

Yeah, how 'bout us, at Destee's Discussion Forums, putting our resources together, and building a think tank, and long-lasting institution that guides the interests of our nation, and children yet unborn... We can do that, we must do that! Our ancestors built stuff from nothing... They didn't have any safety nets, they didn't have grants and white man's support - but they had solidarity... We have integration(LAUGH!)

That is why African people don't wanna sweep in front of their streets... Let the Sanitation department do dat, dat's dey job... Clean up that urine in the back staircase... Nope, let the housing authority do that, I jes live hunh... Let's support Joe's fishfry round the corner... Nope, I rather eat at Why Chang Kaine, he cheepa(smile!) Aint got consciousness the first that in order for our community to grow, we must make it strong... In order for the community to be clean, we gots to keep it clean... In order for us to have businesses in our communities, we must establish and build them... Macy's is big, Sach's 5th Avenue is big, because African people made 'em big... instead, we're waiting on the White man to do it for us... That's Integration...

Peace!
Isaiah

This shouldn't be funny, but it is, and that's sad!

first..nnqueen...i did not disagree with isaiah about the concept of "fear" in our people..I absolutely agree with it..some of my threads speak to the needs of black people having one on one pyschological sessions (please lets not take that idea to the eurocentric concepts..lets stay with each other on this okay)..there have always been "elders",seniors..etc, someone who has the ability to listen and ask the right questions...to stimulate one to truly look at onesself and history...I consistenly believe that we as a people have not really dealt with "the middle passage"..
that's why Hodee's ideas or playing ball with, taking time with, our youth seems perfect ...to develop the next generation with an awareness of who they really are is absolutely necessary...because in a minute, as was stated,the community will be nothing in this society (it is almost there now).
I think we worry to much about what they think/feel (they don't worry about us) instead of what we think/feel.
Brother Isaiahs idea of Destee being a think tank..a place to formulate real action is good...but I have been here a little over a year now...and what I see is constant discussion..maybe I am not always looking at the right threads...but lead me to the thread where tangible suggestions exist..like bother hodees'..like old soul

We're not in disagreement sister deepy, and I'm sorry I wasn't clear about that. I believe that all of the responses to this thread so far are relevant and on point. I also agree with Brother Isaiah's suggestion about creating a "think tank" in this community because we have a good opportunity to do so. In many ways, I think this community through it's variety of discussions has become a think tank already--it just hasn't been formalized.

You're very correct Sister deepy that much if not all of what you see happening here is "discussion", and thankfully so. It's that, including our talented poets which has made Destee.com such a huge success. Interestingly and fortunately, Brother Isaiah is not the first member to make the suggestion that we become an organized "think tank" and if you and others would like to see the idea become a reality, this is the perfect feeding ground for such a concept to sprout wings and fly. Without question we have members with great minds and good spirits here, contributing every day to the education and enlightenment of our people. What does it take to have a spark become a forest fire...the right elements and perfect conditions. What would your suggestions be for making such a thing happen?

Queenie :spinstar:

sister nnqueen

if you go to some of my old posts and threads in both, open forum and poetry,you will see I have suggested many diverse ways we as a community can come together and activate

as i have stated before...we discuss (true that is good) or respond but we do very little...I was hoping (also mentioned before) that the premium members could begin to come together for some of those reasons.
the difficulty is that we, as family oriented as we are, are also a very closed and protected one (maybe I speak for myself)...someof us can't hear each others voices and see each other and we still use those elements to help determine feeling and trust...some of us are still learning how to read and decipher threads into a real feeling of trust (once again I speak for self)
but I am thinking deeply about how this family can be an active volcano in the active work needed tohelp our people....especially the young...

the difficulty is that we, as family oriented as we are, are also a very closed and protected one (maybe I speak for myself)...someof us can't hear each others voices and see each other and we still use those elements to help determine feeling and trust...some of us are still learning how to read and decipher threads into a real feeling of trust (once again I speak for self)

Sister deepy, therein lies the challenge! Even in our real communities we tend to be cautious and timid about opening ourselves up to people we don't know. I simply have to make this point and that is I think our tendency not to trust people, even among ourselves, stems from the conditioning of a long history of racism and how we are socialized.

At some point though, we must become great risk takers and begin to put actions behind the words printed on our computer screens. Most of us know very well that words with no action behind them mean absolutely nothing.

I don't have the answers either. I don't know what we can do to become a network of "doers" as we continue to have these deep and passionate discussions. It certainly would be nice if at the very least, we make it a topic for discussion and see what we can come up with.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Blacks (in America) are in the process of becoming NOBODY.



sonsofthediaspora.org (www.sonsofthediaspora.org)

So How are we going to fix this?

I certainly do not believe in being a nobody who can accept integration like I hand shake.

Cedric Denson

I'm sorry but I don't understand why someone thinks we're becoming NOBODY! Lazarus, can you please expound on what you meant by this and what is the source of your information? And Brother Cedric, you can only fix something that is broken, am I right? What is broken that you think needs to be fixed?

Thanks,
Queenie :spinstar:

I'm sorry but I don't understand why someone thinks we're becoming NOBODY! Lazarus, can you please expound on what you meant by this and what is the source of your information? And Brother Cedric, you can only fix something that is broken, am I right? What is broken that you think needs to be fixed?

Thanks,
Queenie :spinstar:

I didn't say that anything was broken, you can run that by whoever said and whoever says that things are falling apart. What I did say was that I am not going to be a nobody.

Cedric Denson

S
I don't have the answers either. I don't know what we can do to become a network of "doers" as we continue to have these deep and passionate discussions. It certainly would be nice if at the very least, we make it a topic for discussion and see what we can come up with.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

i agree with you sister queenie...start the topic...(i'm not trying to get out of doing it..i just find your "analytical" mind express in word much better than i do...)
..as for computer trust..i sometimes think it is easier to be a "risktaker" when you are not seen...and no doubt racism and history has helped in our "distrust" of ourselves. but i also think once one is clearer about language..like linguists (did you know that there are a large group of black linguists in our country) sometimes you have better insight about people, etc..and it is a skill i am just beginning to learn..i still need eyes and body motion and energy to determine...

THIS NEEDED TO BE REPOSTED IN HONOR OF BLACK HISTORY MONTH AND IN HONOR OF SOMEONE PUTTING UP A MIRROR THAT MANY OF US MAY NOT WANT TO LOOK IN.


I really hate to be the bearer of truth, especially truth that lurks within us subconsciously and that few will consciously admit because of what it says about their self perception of manhood or womanhood...but the facts are this:

A. The movements of the 50s and 60s were generated by several factors.
national unrest, not only on the part of our people, but by the white woman as well in terms of how her own man was treating her on all fronts of life. Therefore from a social perspective, the nation as a whole was going through a change.

B. The leaders among us who rose to the occasion were able to do so because of the energy that not only still existed because of the OUTRIGHT IN YOUR FACE RACISM AND INEQUITY in America, but because it was a continuation of the energy started from slavery in our quest to be free.

C. The death of our spirit and energy began the process of dying with integration as little by little our people became more like their people in our thoughts, habits, perspectives and lifestyle.

D. With integration we began to lose our dignity, respect, honor and self perception of what it was to be black. Those of our leaders who were not killed or imprisoned were paid off. We as a people saw all of this and it subconsciously had an affect upon us. In essence, we were waking up to the corruption of the system, the power of money in regard to that, and the lack of trust because of it.

E. Due to the Freedom of Information Act,we equally learned horrible realities concerning those we mistakenly had perceived as leaders only to discover that they too were working with the government.

F. Due to media, the power of money, the reshaping of our reality to one more closely aliegned with theirs, many of our people really bought the idea that white people in America had changed and that we were living in a more equitable society and country.

G. Before any of these things, the white man NEVER HAD A BLACK FRONT FOR HIS OWN PROTECTION. Now he had reached the point, due to money and power, whereby he had created his own black front or political spokesman/woman for his protection and diversion. In essence, we now have black so called leaders who will take the media platform to defend or justify the actions of white people.

H. Black people by this time had assimilated into white society to the point of living parrallel lives as white people do...dressing the same, schooling the same, eating the same, and as such, our value system of life, self and people went with it.

I. The black cause and black leader was becoming a thing of the past to be associated with a non progressive mentality and inability to see that things were supposedly different...that everything is about money now.

J. Our inability to recognize that it wasn't about money and that money is nothing more than a tool or weapon, soon had us participating in the death and destruction presently going on in our communities as the real face or cause of this is now perceived to be black instead of the white one we don't see behind the scenes. (Cause and Effect)

K. Everything previously said simply served as a divisionary tool to maintain our disunity and destruction to the point of not trusting each other or any leader that might attempt to surface for our own good.

L. So successful has this been, that right now, we don't even want a black leader...just a leader. We don't care if he's white or orange, cause racism don't exist anymore as far as many of us are concerned. WE ARE AMERICAN is the thought process however subconscious it may be.

M. We learned through the freedom of information act the lives that were purposely destroyed even down to today. (What black people or leaders are addressing that ?)

We learned how crack was created and purposely put in our communities to destroy us and our future. (What black people or leaders are addressing that ?)

We learned how with it, laws have been changed to imprison our youth for long periods of time because of our population growth over theirs. (What black people or leaders are addressing that ?)

We learned how aids was purposely created and is now ravishing our communities in America and Africa. (What black people or leaders are addressing that ?)

N. The ultimate question is why not ? The ultimate and unspoken answer is that "WE ARE AFRAID OF WHITE PEOPLE" WE HAVE BECOME COMFORTABLE IN THE ILLUSION OF MATERIALITY AND MONEY AND THAT HAS BECOME OUR NEW COMFORT ZONE. NO ONE WANTS TO LOSE THAT OR JEPORDIZE THEIR FREEDOM, LIFE OR FAMILY AFTER SEEING AND LIVING THE RESULTS OF THOSE THAT CAME BEFORE THEM. WE THEREFORE ARE AFRAID TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH, FOR WITH IT COMES THE BURDEN OF RESPONSIBILITY.

sister nnqueen

if you go to some of my old posts and threads in both, open forum and poetry,you will see I have suggested many diverse ways we as a community can come together and activate

as i have stated before...we discuss (true that is good) or respond but we do very little...I was hoping (also mentioned before) that the premium members could begin to come together for some of those reasons.
the difficulty is that we, as family oriented as we are, are also a very closed and protected one (maybe I speak for myself)...someof us can't hear each others voices and see each other and we still use those elements to help determine feeling and trust...some of us are still learning how to read and decipher threads into a real feeling of trust (once again I speak for self)
but I am thinking deeply about how this family can be an active volcano in the active work needed tohelp our people....especially the young...


I agree. maybe it's time we did stop talking, and tried to evaluate how to actually get something done.