I know most of you on here were around when Hip-Hop first started. After starting this thread, I am going to go back and and watch "Brown Sugar" about 20 times until I understand what REAL hip-hop really is. Hip-Hop is NOT self-hate, disrespest and murder music.

To all the grown-ups around here:

I don't want you to get too old. My generation does not know or care about ANYTHING that you went through to make black culture the best it can be. Hip-Hop and drugs and all that started in your time. Now it is spreading like wildfire, and for the kids, it needs to stop. I'm pretty sure that everyone who could not be here today (including Dr. King, Malcolm X, Medgar Evers) and so would agree with me. We can listen to you alot better than we can listen to ourselves (young people.) We cannot let this go on, or it will eat the very existence of blacks alive. We are no longer labeled as successors; we are labeled as an inferior race. That can be changed, but we need to stick together to change it. Since all the martyrs passed on, not anyone has picked up where they left off. Martin Luther King Jr. died for freedom, and we still do not have freedom; As far as Rosa Parks and giving up the seat goes, some bus drivers don't even want to let kids on the bus. But thats not the point.

The point is that we need to stick together to end the current status of Hip-Hop, before it ends us. Many many people are falling love with G-Unit, D-Block and all these other groups. Kids are creating neighborhood gangs called "G-Unit, D-Block, Ruff Ryders", and such. This is a small world, but enough black folks to stick together and fix a problem that destoys us. It can be done, just put precious time and effort into it.

What can you do to change the way Black Culture really is? Express your leadership skills here. I will read EVERY post - I promise.

Cedric Denson

To all the grown-ups around here:

I don't want you to get too old. My generation does not know or care about ANYTHING that you went through to make black culture the best it can be.
Cedric Denson
i guess that lets me out, then.
Cya.

What's up, Brother Cedric!!!

Listen, we now have a culture forum, so perhaps this would've best been placed up in there??? Hmmmm...maybe not?(smile!)

My beautiful young brother(didn't know you were that young, Ced), I would that you would pick up iand read the biographies and autobiographies of the great men and women whom you mentioned in your post... You might find out something interesting about them which you have in common with them:they all started out doing their thing in their 20's....

Yeah, they were young people just like yourself, and they saw the world around them, and said 'I gots' to do something about it..' Medgar, Malcolm, and Martin were all murdered before their 40th birthdays, brother, but they managed to cram so much into that short period of time, that we have the perception of them being old men when they unceremoniously left this plane...

The Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee(S.N.C.C.)was comprised almost entirely of people in the teens and early 20's, when they were kicking behind, and braking a lot of white supremacist hearts... SNICK was so admired by the local teenagers down in Mississippi that they inadvertently politicized them by being such a strong example...

Brother Cedric, it is unfortunate that we as African people keep our history buried from our babies, because it would serve as such an inspiration to them... We are quite derelict in that respect, but I want you to know that Bob Moses, Sam Block, James Bevel, Diane Nash, John Lewis, and my man, Dr. Bernard Lafayette, were young people attending bible school, and whatnot, and plotting revolution, man(smile!) Like I've mentioned at the board, all of that loud stuff in rap, the lookatme attitude, just gives away the old address, let's the enemy know where ya at at all times...(smile!) He aint got to look for ya, 'cause 5'oclock in da mo'nin, where ya gonna be???? Outside on da co'ner!!! Lookahyeahdeyis!(smile!)

Yeah, bruh, I'm an old dusty, but I'm hard as hell to find(smile!) That was the lesson I learned from those old country boys, John Lewis and Bernard Lafayette(he-he!) And that's the lesson young cats have got to learn... Put some shade on ya game, and do like Kwame Ture said do, and organize, organize, organize... The times have changed young brother... There aint no more need for Malcolm's and Martin's, truth be told...

What we need is some John Johnsons and Earl Graves with a serious consciousness toward institution-building in our communities... When I say institutions, you know I mean schools, colleges, universities, banks, auditoriums, transportation systems, supermarkets, and some mo' schools, schools, libraries, libraries, libraries...(smile!) We need data banks, global mainframes, and young bright energetic Africans like you to maintain it all... Brother Cedric, just quietly organize, and quietly build... You don't need 200,000 cats like the Nation had in it's heyday... Sure, it was a beautiful sight to see all those cats standing on the sidewalk on a summer evening, clean, smiling, and smelling fantastic!(smile!) Even mo' beautiful was the sistas all dressed in White, but it aint 1971 no more... We don't need all of that attention, just a whole lotta action going on underground, dig???

Check this brother Cedric, there's a group of southern Europeans came over here to Ellis Island just before the turn of the 1800's, and said they were gone TAKE what they wanted... By the 1950's, and a few dead bodies later, they was, and still are, getting whatever they ask for, because to refuse them is not good for your health... To steal from them is not good for your health, to mess with one of them whom they've sworn to allegiance is not good for your health.... We never see these guys doing what they do, except on HBO, and they frown on too much attention... Believe me, they are as emotionally expressive as we are, but they do know when to throw shade on stuff...

Together we must begin to "take" what we want from this badboy, because we are owed a very large debt which must be collected by hook or by crook... We are in a much more advantageous position from those who had to engage in criminal behaviour to get paid, because many of us are already getting paid... We need to organize, and pool our resources, and build powerful Black institutions which draw our best minds to us... Then we can send our best lawyers into lobby Congress for reparations, or whatever we deem necessary and essential to our health and development as a people... Cedric, Ive rambled on here, but I hope I broke off a little something for you to chew on...(smile!) Gotta Run!

Peace!
Isaiah

Isaiah- im truely loving the way u think on this thread right here..... jus had to add that...

The younger fans dont have any connection with even early hip hop...they only know what is new, but can and do open their minds more when exposed to the older stuff. I exposed my little sister to the older stuff....she grew up listening to me and my bro pumping that stuff. She does not like much of the commercial stuff becuase hearing how much some of the older artists, and modern underground artists had to say, she finds the new trendy stuff to be weak and boring.

We gotta educate the younger fans on the roots of the rap music they know today....once they understand the 4 elements and original hip hop, we can pass them along to go back further and learn about the music many early rappers sampled....this cannot be done in one step but gradually they will get to know all that came before them and that interest will lead them to learn about life back in the day.

Older hip hop and some of the music they sampled speaks on alot of issues. There is new underground stuff that does too that we can get younger fans into by mixing it in when playing modern popular stuff. You cant force anyone to like anything but can offer the opportunity to them to expand their mind.

MrBlak

I think as long as we don't take responsibility for the images that we reflect then the perception of us will remain the same. Often perception becomes reality. So change the perception and then maybe we can change the reality

Brother James, I understood Cedric to be asking us to be the elders that we are, and provide some leadership and insight for the young folks... Nothing to take offense at, just a word left out, or misplaced, but i got the general meaning of his request... When he said the young folks don't know or care about what we've gone through, he was not only saying what we say all the time, but corroborating what we say all the time...

We have to step back and evaluate these things... Even if it appears an insult to us, we cannot be allowing insults to penetrate beyond a certain point - to that point where we are totally offended and hurt... Cedric, perhaps, you need to clarify what your point is, brother... I understood it, but clearly not all of us will...

Peace!
Isaiah

Daroc, thank you much(smile!) A brotha needs to hear that every now and then(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

One of the problems is that these artist, producers and labels are making more money than they ever have on this hip hop ignorance...so there will be no changing it. Young black (teenagers) people do not want to hear about change and better black communities. They want to hear about the club, ice, sex, drugs and killing. Even some of the older fans of hip hop (mid twenties) don't want to hear about peace, freedom or anything not related to the self-hating music that is commercial now. And they have had some influence from some of the past positive rappers (public enemy, De la Soul, Tribe Called Quest, Arrested Development, BDP). There are still conscious rappers out now that are known (Mos Def, Talib Kweli, The Coup, Dead Prez), but not many people embrace them. And they have more talent as well. Young black people just don't want to hear it. They want to hear and see the flashy, iced out cats. Not the brotha that is modestly dressed speaking on education, eating healthy and fighting the system. Until we get our thinking changed we will not be able to convert hip hop back to where it started...because bottom-line...it's not profitable.

The generations with the most solid knowledge of the struggles (those that lived thru it) dont care to put in any work to teach the young but have all the time in the world to complain about them. When was the last time an "elder" stepped to a school and told personalized stories of "the struggle"???
It is the elders that work hard to subvert culture and align
power to them
....you were never into hip hop were you..its generations below you so I guess that is why you believe such misinformation...it aint your fault. ;)
Peace
To all the grown-ups around here:
I don't want you to get too old. My generation does not know or care about ANYTHING that you went through to make black culture the best
Cedric Denson
Brother James, I understood Cedric to be asking us to be the elders that we are, and provide some leadership and insight for the young folks... Nothing to take offense at, just a word left out, or misplaced, but i got the general meaning of his request... When he said the young folks don't know or care about what we've gone through, he was not only saying what we say all the time, but corroborating what we say all the time...

We have to step back and evaluate these things... Even if it appears an insult to us, we cannot be allowing insults to penetrate beyond a certain point - to that point where we are totally offended and hurt... Cedric, perhaps, you need to clarify what your point is, brother... I understood it, but clearly not all of us will...

Peace!
Isaiah

i'm 61 years old, FWIW
seems like it's open season on olde folks around here.
if that's the way it is, i can go someplace else.
i don't have a need to be insulted.
what's up?

Brother James, as children we speak as children, and as men we speak as men... When we're young we say a lot of things we might retract with some maturity... Hell, when we get older there are things we say which we'd like to retract a minute later... That's because we're speaking from our feelings and emotions, and not from informed assesments... There is no attack on elders, just some comments made in haste...

What I said to Cedric, and what I want to repeat to Mr. Blak, is that young folks of previous generations took the bull by the horns when they saw their elders were moving too slowly for them... They did not sit around and complain about the elders not showing them what was needed to be done... When those three brothers, David Richmond, Franklin McCain, and Ezell Blair, jr(Jibreel Khazan)stepped to that Woolworth's stool down in Greensboro, North Carolina, and virtually started the Sit-In movement, they didn't confer with Dr. King and Malcolm... They acted on their own, as agents of change... Now, Mr. Blak, my mama didn't tell me about these young men, nor did the school system in my city... I was about a year old in 1960 when these events occured, so I had to pick up some books and read about it... No sweat, because I was taught how to read by my elders, and I continue to take advantage of that pivotal lesson taught, and so should you...

On a final note, I've heard it said by coaches just before the Superbowl or the NBA Finals, that if a guy needs pep talks before an event such as this, he shouldn't be here... I want to paraphrase those coaches by saying to young folks that if you need us OLD folks to lead you into wherever it is you feel YOU need to be, then perhaps you don't belong there... Think about it...

Peace!
Isaiah

So now yall DONT need to lead us....and yet when we choose our own path...as many of us, including myself, do, yall complain about the path we take....sounds like yall need to choose a side and get with it.

My point was this: If yall older folks are gonna complain....do something...otherwize, leave us younger ones to do what we do and if we screw up...so be it. We dont need commentary from back seat drivers who are not willing to take the wheel to correct what THEY see wrong.

MrBlak

So now yall DONT need to lead us....and yet when we choose our own path...as many of us, including myself, do, yall complain about the path we take....
actualy, complaining about what one sees as wrong IS correcting it.
why don't you try LISTENING to what is being said to you?

i guess that lets me out, then.
Cya.

I didn't really mean everyone as a whole. It's just that in my community, children my age do nothing but smoke, drink, party, play ball, rap, and such. And the girls just want nothing more than money or anything worth money. Not anyone of them show any true leadership, or do much positive. I want to help them, but they do not want my help. They do not care about the struggle. They want alot, but they do not give much.

Speaking as a person of my age, what I would like is for more people of my age group and generation to step up to the plate and see how they can make things better in the community. You are never too young to help out in this case.

People, I am an extremely easy-going person. I did not start this thread to insult anyone or anything. We learn from the past, Why would we insult anyone or anything that existed in the past? To let you guys know, I get more of my knowledge from brothas and sistahs in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s. Elders make me listen more than anyone. I will NEVER in my life insult someone who helps me understand things in life.

Brother Isaiah, I didn't start this thread where I wanted to start it, but all I care about is that people pay attention to young brothas like myself when they try to tell you that they would like to see things get better. I do not insult people, I don't care who you are. Just like some people, not anyone told me about people like Lafayette and such. That is why I woke up this morning thinking about black educational systems, libraries, and so on. We are not learning what we should learn. It is not often that the right thing to say would come out of my mouth, so please disregard me saying things like: "I don't want you to get too old. My generation does not know or care about ANYTHING that you went through to make black culture the best." I don't need to read about our founding fathers. I have you elders who lived in the days to tell me what it was like. I learn about being a strong black man from you guys (including my parents.) I care about what our history is about, I care. I am doing my part in making things better: I am working with kids. I keep them out of trouble, they listen to me, they admire me, they look to me, that is what I like about what elders do for us.

I don't mean to say offensive things all the time. I just would like to see that I am not the only one who make things better for Black folks of all ages. When I walk by and see brothas-n-sistahs on the streets, I say "Hi, greetings, and such. I don't care what clothes they are wearing, how they are talking, because everyone has a good side to them. I am ignored by some who think that just because I am a young black man in an impoverish environment I am one of those thugs who mess everything up; or I am ignored by sistahs, because they think that just because I say "hello" to them I want to get them in the bed or something, but I still say something. What ever happened to 'unity'? Lets do things like greeting eachother somewhere other than church, and at school.

I will get one main point across right now:

Can we be brothers and sistahs who love eachother and care about eachother, rather than hold something against eachother?

Some things I say might be irrevelant, but i'm young, I will make alot of mistakes that can be corrected as I grow up in life.

Cedric Denson

People, I am an extremely easy-going person. I did not start this thread to insult anyone or anything. We learn from the past, Why would we insult anyone or anything that existed in the past? To let you guys know, I get more of my knowledge from brothas and sistahs in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s. Elders make me listen more than anyone. I will NEVER in my life insult someone who helps me understand things in life.

Brother Isaiah, I didn't start this thread where I wanted to start it, but all I care about is that people pay attention to young brothas like myself when they try to tell you that they would like to see things get better. I do not insult people, I don't care who you are. Just like some people, not anyone told me about people like Lafayette and such. That is why I woke up this morning thinking about lack educational systems libraries, and so on. We are not learning what we should learn. It is not often that the right thing to say would come out of my mouth, so please disregard me saying things like: "I don't want you to get too old. My generation does not know or care about ANYTHING that you went through to make black culture the best." I don't need to read about our founding fathers. I have you elders who lived in the days to tell me what it was like. I learn about being a strong black man from you guys (including my parents.) I care about what our history is about, I care. I am doing my part in making things better: I am working with kids. I keep them out of trouble, they listen to me, they admire me, they look to me, that is what I like about what elders do for us.

I don't mean to say offensive things all the time. I just would like to see that I am not the only one who make things better for Black folks of all ages. When I walk by and see brothas-n-sistahs on the streets, I say "Hi, greetings, and such. I don't care what clothes they are wearing, how they are talking, because everyone has a good side to them. I am ignored by some who think that just because I am a young black man in an impoverish environment I am one of those thugs who mess everything up; or I am ignored by sistahs, because they think that just because I say "hello" to them I want to get them in the bed or something, but I still say something. What ever happened to 'unity'? Lets do things like greeting eachother somewhere other than church, and at school.

I will get one main point across right now:

Can we be brothers and sistahs who love eachother and care about eachother, rather than hold something against eachother?

Some things I say might be irrevelant, but i'm young, I will make alot of mistakes that can be corrected as I grow up in life.

Cedric Denson


Brother Cedric, you've just brought real tears to my eyes with this post, man... I feel it, I felt it, and I am truly honored by it... I have seen your posts at the board, as well as the posts of many of the young cats, like KenteMojo, Mr. Blak, Therious, and I have said it before that I am mad impressed by you all... Some of the young sisters, too, like Daroc, CarrieMonet, and SweetBrownSugar, are impressive, and lead me to believe our future is in good hands(smile!)

I want to encourage you to keep on keeping on in what you're doing, and never let anyone turn you around... Believe me when I say that long before the advent of Personal Computers, I spent many a agonzing time in my youth feeling mad alienated... I had no one to confide in except older cats... They always seemed to understand... Now it is my turn to fulfill that role, and I am more than willing to do what I must...

Like I said, brother, i understood perfectly what you were saying, and even if I didn't it is my obligation to answer you in the most affirming and positve way I can... I know what it is like to be young, trying to find myself, and where I fit in... I understand how terrifying that is sometimes, therefore it is my duty to bring some comfort and encouragement to others...

One of these days, I would like to start a little league baseball/basketball league to mentor the children, and give brothers a chance to do same... "Get your behind up from in front of DirectTV, and come rap with these babies, brother..." That's what I'd like to say, but I aint got my teams together yet(LOL!)

In any event, Cedric, keep on doing your thang, man... One day those cats who thought you were "out there" are going to say your name with reverence... That's how it always works out... People talk a lot of trash because your fearlessness unsettles them, makes them feel small looking at your immense courage... No one likes to feel small, hence the negative reactions... No matter... Hang on in there, and they'll beat a path to your home, brother...

Peace!
Isaiah

Brother Cedric, you've just brought real tears to my eyes with this post, man... I feel it, I felt it, and I am truly honored by it... I have seen your posts at the board, as well as the posts of many of the young cats, like KenteMojo, Mr. Blak, Therious, and I have said it before that I am mad impressed by you all... Some of the young sisters, too, like Daroc, CarrieMonet, and SweetBrownSugar, are impressive, and lead me to believe our future is in good hands(smile!)

I want to encourage you to keep on keeping on in what you're doing, and never let anyone turn you around... Believe me when I say that long before the advent of Personal Computers, I spent many a agonzing time in my youth feeling mad alienated... I had no one to confide in except older cats... They always seemed to understand... Now it is my turn to fulfill that role, and I am more than willing to do what I must...

Like I said, brother, i understood perfectly what you were saying, and even if I didn't it is my obligation to answer you in the most affirming and positve way I can... I know what it is like to be young, trying to find myself, and where I fit in... I understand how terrifying that is sometimes, therefore it is my duty to bring some comfort and encouragement to others...

One of these days, I would like to start a little league baseball/basketball league to mentor the children, and give brothers a chance to do same... "Get your behind up from in front of DirectTV, and come rap with these babies, brother..." That's what I'd like to say, but I aint got my teams together yet(LOL!)

In any event, Cedric, keep on doing your thang, man... One day those cats who thought you were "out there" are going to say your name with reverence... That's how it always works out... People talk a lot of trash because your fearlessness unsettles them, makes them feel small looking at your immense courage... No one likes to feel small, hence the negative reactions... No matter... Hang on in there, and they'll beat a path to your home, brother...

Peace!
Isaiah

aaawww... u made me special.. thanks... ur words of encouragement remind me of when i had a conversation wit this guy on how i feel so diferent and alone when it comes ot the want and determination i have to appreciate our past.... and he went on to tell and remind me of how all the prphets and peopele who were diferent are always the ones that seem hated.... ur words jus reminded me of that mometn... thhey made me feel good... i'll try to remember themm the next time im sittting and wondering why so many peopele around me seem so ignorant and oblivious to the problmes goign on in our society.... thnaks brotha for the wisdom and the words of encouragment........... u too cedric

To Cedric and Daroc and all the YGB's (Young,Gifted and Black) here at Destee who's work I've admired and who I hold in high esteem, some words from someone who inspired me a quarter of a century ago, when we were both in prison.

'Our deepest fear is NOT that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.
We ask ourselves, who am I to be
Brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?
Actually, who are you NOT to be?
You are a child of God.
Your playing small doesn't serve the world.
There is nothing enlightened about shrinking
So that other people won't feel insecure around you.
We were born to make manifest
The Glory of God within us.
It is not just in some of us; it's in everyone.
And, as we let our own light shine,
We unconsciously give other people
Permission to do the same.
As we are liberated from our own fear,
Our presence automatically liberates others.'

From Nelson Mandella's 1994 Inaugural Speech as President of South Afrika

actualy, complaining about what one sees as wrong IS correcting it.
why don't you try LISTENING to what is being said to you?
since when is complaining correcting??? That is ridiculous....do you consider it correcting when people of other generations, whether older or younger, have complained about you and people in your age group? Do you take your own advice?

I listen to older people often....those that speak WITH ME and offer advice and LISTEN to me also.....I gain nothing from people who simply complain about me and dismiss everything I say and talk DOWN TO me....many so called "leaders" in the community and elders who think they have much to offer spen too much time praising themself and their generation and talking down to everyone else.....for every bit of knowledge there is a ton of garbage comming out.....who wants to sit thru that?? You wouldnt so why give the advice to others to do so??

To Cedric and Daroc and all the YGB's (Young,Gifted and Black) here at Destee who's work I've admired and who I hold in high esteem, some words from someone who inspired me a quarter of a century ago, when we were both in prison.

'Our deepest fear is NOT that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.
We ask ourselves, who am I to be
Brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?
Actually, who are you NOT to be?
You are a child of God.
Your playing small doesn't serve the world.
There is nothing enlightened about shrinking
So that other people won't feel insecure around you.
We were born to make manifest
The Glory of God within us.
It is not just in some of us; it's in everyone.
And, as we let our own light shine,
We unconsciously give other people
Permission to do the same.
As we are liberated from our own fear,
Our presence automatically liberates others.'

From Nelson Mandella's 1994 Inaugural Speech as President of South Afrika

You always got something to offer and teach people.
:roll: :toast: :thanks:

since when is complaining correcting??? That is ridiculous....do you consider it correcting when people of other generations, whether older or younger, have complained about you and people in your age group? Do you take your own advice?

I listen to older people often....those that speak WITH ME and offer advice and LISTEN to me also.....I gain nothing from people who simply complain about me and dismiss everything I say and talk DOWN TO me....many so called "leaders" in the community and elders who think they have much to offer spen too much time praising themself and their generation and talking down to everyone else.....for every bit of knowledge there is a ton of garbage coming out.....who wants to sit thru that?? You wouldnt so why give the advice to others to do so??
every post from you contains insult, every single one.
usually when i hear insult, i shut down.

i apologize right now for any disrespect or talking down that you feel from me.
i don't mean to be that way.

from my point of view, all i have ever heard from you is anger and insult.
you seem to be unrelenting in your spitefulness.

I'm going to try to avoid saying anything to you in the future.
in closing, i again apologize for anything that i may have done to offend you.

I know most of you on here were around when Hip-Hop first started. After starting this thread, I am going to go back and and watch "Brown Sugar" about 20 times until I understand what REAL hip-hop really is. Hip-Hop is NOT self-hate, disrespest and murder music.

To all the grown-ups around here:

I don't want you to get too old. My generation does not know or care about ANYTHING that you went through to make black culture the best it can be. Hip-Hop and drugs and all that started in your time. Now it is spreading like wildfire, and for the kids, it needs to stop. I'm pretty sure that everyone who could not be here today (including Dr. King, Malcolm X, Medgar Evers) and so would agree with me. We can listen to you alot better than we can listen to ourselves (young people.) We cannot let this go on, or it will eat the very existence of blacks alive. We are no longer labeled as successors; we are labeled as an inferior race. That can be changed, but we need to stick together to change it. Since all the martyrs passed on, not anyone has picked up where they left off. Martin Luther King Jr. died for freedom, and we still do not have freedom; As far as Rosa Parks and giving up the seat goes, some bus drivers don't even want to let kids on the bus. But thats not the point.

The point is that we need to stick together to end the current status of Hip-Hop, before it ends us. Many many people are falling love with G-Unit, D-Block and all these other groups. Kids are creating neighborhood gangs called "G-Unit, D-Block, Ruff Ryders", and such. This is a small world, but enough black folks to stick together and fix a problem that destoys us. It can be done, just put precious time and effort into it.

What can you do to change the way Black Culture really is? Express your leadership skills here. I will read EVERY post - I promise.

Cedric Denson

Brother I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for represent the future of African Americans so well. I hope there are more young people such as yourself that feel the same. For our older generation please listen to this brother. He represents our future crying out for help in an uncertain world. Hip-Hop music in itself is beautiful. It shows the creativity and ingenuity of our urban and impoverished youth through an expressive media or artform. The principle of hip-hop has been around for thousands of years. Songs of lengend or saga,the African drums sending messages, Musical news and information. In a since one could say The Psalms of David in the Bible was the Hip-Hop of it's day. Hip-Hop is urban street lore. Hip-Hop is the voice of what's going on. The problem is the purpose of the message and the praise of it's messangers. Hip-Hop is driven by capitalism. This is why we have mainstream America's acceptence of something this was supposed to be a passing fad. So how do we change Hip-Hop? By changing the message. In a fan driven industries, if fan change what is tolerable the artists, record labels and producers will conform. The thing is we can't talk about it lets be about it. So brothers and sisters lets take a stand and ignite a change. If we don't change it no one will.

Peace

Radical Faith

Brother I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for represent the future of African Americans so well. I hope there are more young people such as yourself that feel the same. For our older generation please listen to this brother. He represents our future crying out for help in an uncertain world. Hip-Hop music in itself is beautiful. It shows the creativity and ingenuity of our urban and impoverished youth through an expressive media or artform. The principle of hip-hop has been around for thousands of years. Songs of lengend or saga,the African drums sending messages, Musical news and information. In a since one could say The Psalms of David in the Bible was the Hip-Hop of it's day. Hip-Hop is urban street lore. Hip-Hop is the voice of what's going on. The problem is the purpose of the message and the praise of it's messangers. Hip-Hop is driven by capitalism. This is why we have mainstream America's acceptence of something this was supposed to be a passing fad. So how do we change Hip-Hop? By changing the message. In a fan driven industries, if fan change what is tolerable the artists, record labels and producers will conform. The thing is we can't talk about it lets be about it. So brothers and sisters lets take a stand and ignite a change. If we don't change it no one will.

Peace

Radical Faith

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for that REAL message. I would also like to think all that showed their true colors with examples of leadership in words. I thank you all. I do not know everything, and will not know everything, but I know that as black folks, we can stand a heck of a lot taller than we are if we stick together and help eachother out. I know I am personally sick and tired of holding things against people. I am done with being jealous of someone who has skills just as good as mine. If the two of us band together to do what we do, the only thing that can stop us is us. I have no reason to hate ANYONE. If there was ever a person for me to hate, it would be the devil. We are all human beings, and we all are capable of doing the same things, learning the same things, eating the same food, and so on. And if somoeone is better than me instead of being jealous, I could also simply aknowledge them, and move on in life doing my part.

Cedric Denson

Brither Cedric, here are two articles you may find very helpful on this subject. They can be found at The Institute for Black Men (http://whgbetc.com/ifbm/) site.
1. Black Nationalism and Rap Music (http://whgbetc.com/ifbm/black-nationalism-and-rap-music.html)
2. HIPHOP: The Return of the Talking Drum (http://whgbetc.com/ifbm/hip-hop-lloyd-daniel.html)

Brither Cedric, here are two articles you may find very helpful on this subject. They can be found at The Institute for Black Men (http://whgbetc.com/ifbm/) site.
1. Black Nationalism and Rap Music (http://whgbetc.com/ifbm/black-nationalism-and-rap-music.html)
2. HIPHOP: The Return of the Talking Drum (http://whgbetc.com/ifbm/hip-hop-lloyd-daniel.html)

I'm sorry OldSoul for not being able to answer you last response. I have been dealing with moving from New York to Florida, then right when I get down here, Hurricane Frances meets me here.

I truly appreciate your generous offer of the articles. I will read them and spread the word for me, you, and all the rest of the brothas out there who are having a hard time making it.

Thank you very much.

Cedric Denson

In my opinion hip-hop has as much potential to uplift as it does to destroy. The key is found in the lyrics.

Hotep

Any person who does not highly respect those who are older and sometimes wiser will learn too soon what getting older is all about. Your time will come much sooner than you think...you will "Not" live for ever and as you get "Older" you will know what it is like to watch the "Youth" makeing mistakes that you made or know some one who made the same mistakes and errors...you will know things that will happen before hand (from lifes experience) and have to sit by and only watch from a distance as the youth sometime "distroy" them self by not knowing that every thing has a "Price to Pay". You will have to live with the flustration that you could have help "if" some one would only have listen or ask...as "Hue-Mans" have done for hundreds of thousands of years (except today in Amerikkka)...consult with the "Elders"! What goes around comes around...that is to say...if you think you have enough time to "Figure out" all that you need to know by your self with others who don't know as well...You are nothing but a "Fool" according to "Universal-Laws". How can one know at 20 or 30 years of age what a elder 50 or 70+ years of age knows...who was around in times that already repeated them self but the youth with out knowledge of those times think they are starting something "New"?? Today in Amerikkka...the Negro Slave children are gravely mis-lead by the Slave Masters Children who continue to oppress with a "smile" and even "Sex" and the Africans in Amerikkka youth are the "Victoms" who have learned from their "Open Enemies" to "Not Listen or Pay any Attintion to Their Parents, Ancestors and Elders at their own expence". The enemy knows if the children will not take advice from their own elder people...they will have compleat control over them and that is just the case today as we watch our youth suffer, die, go to prision and only say "I'm keepin it Real". It has "Always been Real" it has never not been "Real" only in that ones "Imagination" has it not been "Real". What is real is...the youth are in for a "Rude" awakening if most continue to egnore the elders who would do their best to help...they don't know that "We" are one people..."From Birth to Death" or "From young to the Old Age"...we are not alone unless we choose to be. Hip-Hop started first as the collective conscience effort of the then "Youth" mostly "Rapping" about "Social-Issues"...the powers that be took notice and wanted to stop this "Movement" and begin to "Promote" so-called "Gangsta-Rapp"...because they knew they didnt' have any thing to worry about with "Negative" ideas now being "Pumped" daily into the "Ears" and "Brains" of the Black youth...they knew it was "Conter-Productive to African Liberation" and "Self-Distructive" but it makes a lot of "Money"...so the "Youth are now Selling Out to Greed and Ignorance". What are "We" going to do about It??After allowing ourselves and our "Music" to be "Co-Opt" by the White Altra-Rich Political Media"???

Ase`

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The Real movie that set Hip Hop on the map was "Krush Groove", a movie based on Def Jam and it's beginning, with Russell Simmons, and Rick Rubin, Run DMC and Jam Master J, Ice T, LL cool J, and others.

The "FIRST PERSON" that put Hip Hop on the Map before that, and she never gets any credit, is Sylvia Robinson, With Grandmaster Fash, and most notably "The Message", and the Sugarhill Gang with, "It's Like A Jungle".

There were all kind of Hip Hop artist and Music in the beginning that was competetive, but not advocating or glorifying Guns, Murder, Pornography, drugs, and a plethora of other criminal activity as it is known for today.

That element was introduced by "NWA" with "F*** The Police", which caused them to be followed around and investigated by the F.B.I., which brought that whole style into popularity from all the media attention they were given, and the rest is history.

The average Afrimerican between 2 and 32 have no concept of their history, Hip Hop or other wise. They have bits and peices of it that have been altered to fit white societies acceptance, and/or it's been dissected by others, usually White too, but also Afrimericans, who take the parts they can sell to sell to those that don't know, so that they can make money, and or look important, and worse, to keep Afrimericans stupid.

The real tragedy is, every Afrimerican of any financial stature, or high public celebrity profile have sold out, and have sold out the race and the result is, over 60% of the Afrimerican race is living under third world, barely making it conditions, while the U.S. government, and the Media create false statistics that things are better than they really are.

All in all, get some real facts, and don't rely on the internet, or your friends, or what's popular on the ghetto grapevine, go to a library, go to old used book stores, and find the real, find an old person that was there to talk to and ask questions.

grow up smart.

I know most of you on here were around when Hip-Hop first started. After starting this thread, I am going to go back and and watch "Brown Sugar" about 20 times until I understand what REAL hip-hop really is. Hip-Hop is NOT self-hate, disrespest and murder music.

To all the grown-ups around here:

I don't want you to get too old. My generation does not know or care about ANYTHING that you went through to make black culture the best it can be. Hip-Hop and drugs and all that started in your time. Now it is spreading like wildfire, and for the kids, it needs to stop. I'm pretty sure that everyone who could not be here today (including Dr. King, Malcolm X, Medgar Evers) and so would agree with me. We can listen to you alot better than we can listen to ourselves (young people.) We cannot let this go on, or it will eat the very existence of blacks alive. We are no longer labeled as successors; we are labeled as an inferior race. That can be changed, but we need to stick together to change it. Since all the martyrs passed on, not anyone has picked up where they left off. Martin Luther King Jr. died for freedom, and we still do not have freedom; As far as Rosa Parks and giving up the seat goes, some bus drivers don't even want to let kids on the bus. But thats not the point.

The point is that we need to stick together to end the current status of Hip-Hop, before it ends us. Many many people are falling love with G-Unit, D-Block and all these other groups. Kids are creating neighborhood gangs called "G-Unit, D-Block, Ruff Ryders", and such. This is a small world, but enough black folks to stick together and fix a problem that destoys us. It can be done, just put precious time and effort into it.

What can you do to change the way Black Culture really is? Express your leadership skills here. I will read EVERY post - I promise.

Cedric Denson


Quote:

"Hip hop and drugs and all that started in your time"

Hip Hop YES. If I was to go off Bam's definition that means 1973, when I was in the 11th grade. At that time I was deejaying house parties along with a few of my friends.

Gangs, drugs, murder, and std's began much earlier. What did cahnge during "my time" is the context in how each were used or allowed by the system to play out.

1973. N Aids or HIV. But there was syphillis, gonorrhea and a growing epiemic of herpes.

Coacaine usage was increasing as was smoking pcp, "angel dust" and afghan or Turkish hashish. However, heroin and marijuana usage pre-ceeded this and goes back to the 50s and the korean and vietnam wars. The inflow of drugs from the Golden Triangle.

Gangs. Bam even said he was a former gang leader so if he reformed then gangs obviously were around before 1973 as well. Surely the CRIPS and BLOODS were pe-ceeded by the AVE, Slausons, Businessmen, Gladiators, Bishops, Outlaws, and Brims.
Also the BGD's and Stone Ranger to mention a few more.

This leaves us with black-on-black crime. Nope. Cant blame murder on hip hop either....just look at the many black "exploitation" flicks that the corporate media released prior to and during the early development of hip hop. Kinda like today. To repress a progressive black yout culture, trying to "nip it in the bud".

So, what is this "current stage of hip hop" in which folks speak?

Im 50 years old and more in touch with newer, younger, more progressive hip hop artists from around the world and thank GOD that my view has not become tainted. Even though I grew up from the streets where "gangsta rap" was itself born. South Central Avenue. Rosecrans Boulevard. Compton Avenue. These are REAL places which one time had a vibrant JAZZ SCENE.

In fact this is what SOUTH CENTRAL was world-reknown for prior to the Korean War. JAZZ and BLUES. Dolphin's of Hollywood. And, the NOI Mosque.

WATTS. Before the riots it was known not only for the Watts Towers but for the Watts Towers CULTURAL Center and the numerous JAZZ musicians who lived in Watts [including some of my own relatives who attended Jefferson HS].

So what is the point.

Dont blame hip hop. Hip hop has gone the same course of jazz, the blues, doo-wop, Motown, funk, and soul music. Each has had its positive and negative contrbutors. Each has been co-opted as art forms. Each has had a UNIVERSAL impact on every art form and musical genre since 1910 when "jass" emerged from the new orleans brothels run by jelly roll morton.

Drugs, sex and violence have been associated with each and hip hop is simply the overgrown great-great-grandson of "jass" and "bop".

The Real movie that set Hip Hop on the map was "Krush Groove", a movie based on Def Jam and it's beginning, with Russell Simmons, and Rick Rubin, Run DMC and Jam Master J, Ice T, LL cool J, and others.

The "FIRST PERSON" that put Hip Hop on the Map before that, and she never gets any credit, is Sylvia Robinson, With Grandmaster Fash, and most notably "The Message", and the Sugarhill Gang with, "It's Like A Jungle".

There were all kind of Hip Hop artist and Music in the beginning that was competetive, but not advocating or glorifying Guns, Murder, Pornography, drugs, and a plethora of other criminal activity as it is known for today.

That element was introduced by "NWA" with "F*** The Police", which caused them to be followed around and investigated by the F.B.I., which brought that whole style into popularity from all the media attention they were given, and the rest is history.

The average Afrimerican between 2 and 32 have no concept of their history, Hip Hop or other wise. They have bits and peices of it that have been altered to fit white societies acceptance, and/or it's been dissected by others, usually White too, but also Afrimericans, who take the parts they can sell to sell to those that don't know, so that they can make money, and or look important, and worse, to keep Afrimericans stupid.

The real tragedy is, every Afrimerican of any financial stature, or high public celebrity profile have sold out, and have sold out the race and the result is, over 60% of the Afrimerican race is living under third world, barely making it conditions, while the U.S. government, and the Media create false statistics that things are better than they really are.

All in all, get some real facts, and don't rely on the internet, or your friends, or what's popular on the ghetto grapevine, go to a library, go to old used book stores, and find the real, find an old person that was there to talk to and ask questions.

grow up smart.


Actually, in the context of NWA, "Boyz in the Hood" and Toddy Tee's "Batter Ram" are more considered the birth of "gangst rap" which is a label that was placed on them by EAST COAST RECORD EXECUTIVES to tarnish what were INDEPENDENT BLACK RECORD LABEL releases.

I remember clearly that this was between 1986-87 because I was teaching at a Continuation School in Lynwood at the tie and some of my students lived in Compton and associates with Eric Wright. And some lived near my grandmother.

Before NWA there was the FILA FRESH CREW and DOC was making early tapes, and a lot of underground ish was sold at the Rodium and Compton swapmeets.

Wanna KNOW who they REALLY got a lot of their lyracism from and who their MAIN influence was around this time?

LLCOOL J!

lol!

Radio (1985) especially two tracks. Yvette and Rock the Bells.

lol! I lived on the 107 block around the corner from Washington Prep where Yo-Yo was a teenager with a grew known as "Def City" obviously inspired by Def Jam records and one of my neighbors had a sister who was named Yvette and the brothers used to jam that every time she stepped ut the crib.

I envcourage you to listen to what was coming outta LA before LL's release of "Radio". It was all ELECTRO..not gangsta.

The funny thing is that all these cats who ya'll know about reppin' "gangsta" aint really from the time period to relate the TRUTH cuz they wasn't even in the game yet.

Fact is, bro, that "gansta rap" ish started in NYC.

Actually, in the context of NWA, "Boyz in the Hood" and Toddy Tee's "Batter Ram" are more considered the birth of "gangst rap" which is a label that was placed on them by EAST COAST RECORD EXECUTIVES to tarnish what were INDEPENDENT BLACK RECORD LABEL releases.

I remember clearly that this was between 1986-87 because I was teaching at a Continuation School in Lynwood at the tie and some of my students lived in Compton and associates with Eric Wright. And some lived near my grandmother.

Before NWA there was the FILA FRESH CREW and DOC was making early tapes, and a lot of underground ish was sold at the Rodium and Compton swapmeets.

Wanna KNOW who they REALLY got a lot of their lyracism from and who their MAIN influence was around this time?

LLCOOL J!

lol!

Radio (1985) especially two tracks. Yvette and Rock the Bells.

lol! I lived on the 107 block around the corner from Washington Prep where Yo-Yo was a teenager with a grew known as "Def City" obviously inspired by Def Jam records and one of my neighbors had a sister who was named Yvette and the brothers used to jam that every time she stepped ut the crib.

I envcourage you to listen to what was coming outta LA before LL's release of "Radio". It was all ELECTRO..not gangsta.

The funny thing is that all these cats who ya'll know about reppin' "gangsta" aint really from the time period to relate the TRUTH cuz they wasn't even in the game yet.

Fact is, bro, that "gansta rap" ish started in NYC.

Cant blame that on the West Coast "rap" either.

The FBI was investigating Public Enemy at an early stage begins of its Black Nationalist politics, and this was expanded from 1988 because of their relationship to Sista Souljah and her on organizing activities. This I KNOW because I worked with her "associates" in founding theNational African Youth Student Alliance.

Pac grew attention fromthe FBI because of his friendship with Biggie and this was complicated with his signing to Suge Knight's Death Row. Why?

Because of Suge's freindship with Irv Gotti and Murder Inc.

They got Gotti on RICO violations that could not be applied to Suge because uge really had no clear "gang" base of operation. But Gotti's relationship to "Primo" was well known.