My beautiful brothers, I think that it is well past the time for us to police our own communities - with or without the consent of the powers that be... I am well aware that they will attempt to(already have!)stop us from seizing THAT sort of control of our communities, but we must find the path to that end...

If we are to restore some degree of order and respect for our women and children, African men must begin to deal firmly with African men who do not respect order, do not respect women and children, do not respect the elderly, do not respect clean, drug-free environments... It has been clear as day for so long in Black America, that Black man's absence from the affairs of protection and preservation of the traditional values of our communities has left us vulnerable, for example, to police abuses, and unchecked crimminal behaviour... In other words, our inability to control our own internal affairs has given carte blanche to police departments all over the country, to come in and control those affairs for us...

Here in Brooklyn, where we have at least 2 fairly large orthodox Jewish communities living within the African and Latino communites, they patrol these areas, and protect Jewish people - right smack dab in the middle of predominately Black and Latino hoods!!! Who do you suppose they're protecting their Jewish brethren from???(smile!)

Hey, may Yahweh's full blessings be upon them! I agree fully and wholeheartedly with the firm position they've taken, for in taking such a position, they are, it oft seems, immune from police violence... The police understand that they will handle any outta order, outta control Jews, themselves, therefore they've got a hands-off policy toward them... Additionally, as these Jews have attained immense political power through their financial support of politicians, the NYPD is even loathe to give these folks even a parking ticket(smile!) In point of fact, we've literally had near riots over in Williamsburg, Brooklyn(Satmar Orthodox Jewish Community/Latinos)over the issuing of parking tickets to these folks...

I remember that in the early 1980's, the Lubavitcher Orthodox community ran into a police precinct, and near tore it up inside following the arrest of a Jewish male... I gather that many of you heard of the Crown Heights disturbances in 1991, when a Lubavitcher driver ran a red light, and hit and killed young Gavin Cato, and permenantly maimed his sister Angela... The Jewish Ambulance service came a removed Jewish persons from the scene who were not even hurt, while Gavin and Angela lay dead and injured underneath the car that had hit them... Of course, Reverend Al Sharpton was blamed for the disturbance that ensued, as "the Chosen" aint never wrong about anything(smile!)

I say that we need to follow their example, not moan about the preferential treatment they get... Once we've shown our brethren and the world that we will not put up with nothing that does not do the village proud - and that includes utmost respect for African women, children, and elders while within it's confines, we will be able to put these police departments in deep check... Some ideas on this African people???(smile!)

Peace!
isaiah

You know brother Isaiah this has been discussed on this website before, and I agree with it completely. Indeed one of our answers to the plague of police brutuality might very well be to start policing our own (thus eliminating the need for a high police presence where ever a large number of Africans inhabit). This would also solve the problem of police apathy towards black victims as well. However to become reality we would have to overcome a tendency within our community to protect our own (even our criminals) from the law. I remember reading a couple of weeks ago about a mother in NYC (I am sure you've heard the story as well Isaiah) who turned in her own son for murder. This is what is needed in our community....to stop harboring & protecting criminals. This move (self-protection) can not only make our communities safer...it would go a long way towards improving the self-esteem of our youth.

Brother Pan, for the reasons you've mentioned foremost - which is straight wack, if you ask me - and the fact that such a force of African men would be completely voluntary(smile!) What??? Protect African men, women, and children for FREEE!?(smile!) Aw, heck naw!

But, Pan, you are right on the money about how we protect and defend the absolute worst elements of our communities... We make excuses for them to engage in the kind of criminal behavior that leads, ultimately, to the deaths by homicide of hundreds of African children, women, and men on a yearly basis... We seem to have adopted some rebellious, though nihilistic, posture over the decades that have rendered our communities safe havens for the criminal minded...

Somewhere I heard or read that prior to the Civil Rights Movement, African Americans made up about 2% of the prison population of the United States, and I think that was because our communities had a different set of values, then... We knew we had an underworld element in those communities, and we accepted that to a degree... But even the underworld cats would'nt hurt children, wouldn't hurt the elderly... There was a certain honor among thieves mentality... The Movement's success, I think, started certain police and governmental agencies in the U.S. to begin the process of creating embryonic plans for the Prison Industrial Complex...

Still, I believe, had Africans maintained their conservative views on crime, we could've still saved thousands of brothers from it's clutches... If we had not embraced certain ideas about drugs and drug dealing, and so forth, a lot of cats might've gone a different route to make a dollar... I knew when I began hearing that stupid phrase, "can't knock ya hustle", that we were/are in serious trouble as a people... You cannot have that kind of laissez faire attitude about folks dealing drugs in your community, and not have the makings of a holocaust... Our attitude about drugs and drug-dealing has been the single most devastating thing to hit us since slavery...

Now, I believe, it is our place to change all of that with a new/old set of values... We've got to teach our children why the should and must, shun the criminal element in our communities... Stop rubbing elbows with these cats - even show themselves the more powerful element in the neighborhoods, by rejecting those things which the dealer admires most, his cars, his jewelry, his clothes... That is the problem within our families at this time... You've even got parents who'll tell the child that if you can go out an get yours like the knuckleheads have done...gone do it... They encourage criminal behavior by being so materialistic themselves... Aw boy, I gotta lot to say on this, but I've got to end it here, brother... Be back later...

Peace!
Isaiah

Yes, I am for policing our own communities because the people of the communities look up to us. They take after us. We do not use violence in the process of doing so. And if we do, at least every little bit of action taken in the communities do not draw us into the media.

We do it brothas, and we do it together. Looking out for eachother's property, children, women, and most of all, ourselves.

Cedric Denson

Communities need to police themselves. One of the reasons why communities never grow in my opinion is because the residents of the communities are content with their situation. If you attempt to police the communities those thugs will bust at you, I know I would if I was on the hustle and you tried to regulate me.

Brother Pan, for the reasons you've mentioned foremost - which is straight wack, if you ask me - and the fact that such a force of African men would be completely voluntary(smile!) What??? Protect African men, women, and children for FREEE!?(smile!) Aw, heck naw!

But, Pan, you are right on the money about how we protect and defend the absolute worst elements of our communities... We make excuses for them to engage in the kind of criminal behavior that leads, ultimately, to the deaths by homicide of hundreds of African children, women, and men on a yearly basis... We seem to have adopted some rebellious, though nihilistic, posture over the decades that have rendered our communities safe havens for the criminal minded...

Somewhere I heard or read that prior to the Civil Rights Movement, African Americans made up about 2% of the prison population of the United States, and I think that was because our communities had a different set of values, then... We knew we had an underworld element in those communities, and we accepted that to a degree... But even the underworld cats would'nt hurt children, wouldn't hurt the elderly... There was a certain honor among thieves mentality... The Movement's success, I think, started certain police and governmental agencies in the U.S. to begin the process of creating embryonic plans for the Prison Industrial Complex...

Still, I believe, had Africans maintained their conservative views on crime, we could've still saved thousands of brothers from it's clutches... If we had not embraced certain ideas about drugs and drug dealing, and so forth, a lot of cats might've gone a different route to make a dollar... I knew when I began hearing that stupid phrase, "can't knock ya hustle", that we were/are in serious trouble as a people... You cannot have that kind of laissez faire attitude about folks dealing drugs in your community, and not have the makings of a holocaust... Our attitude about drugs and drug-dealing has been the single most devastating thing to hit us since slavery...

Now, I believe, it is our place to change all of that with a new/old set of values... We've got to teach our children why the should and must, shun the criminal element in our communities... Stop rubbing elbows with these cats - even show themselves the more powerful element in the neighborhoods, by rejecting those things which the dealer admires most, his cars, his jewelry, his clothes... That is the problem within our families at this time... You've even got parents who'll tell the child that if you can go out an get yours like the knuckleheads have done...gone do it... They encourage criminal behavior by being so materialistic themselves... Aw boy, I gotta lot to say on this, but I've got to end it here, brother... Be back later...

Peace!
Isaiah

brother Isaiah,

Guess what..if our brothers and sisters in New Orleans had community policing in effect then right now they would be positioned to better assist in rebuilding the 9th Ward because they would not be outsiders trying to regulate and they would be more sensitive to the needs of our displaced relatives returning to the disaster zone. More of our people evacuating would also have been treated more respectfully and there would have been no need for the army corp of engineers who came in and made matters worse by blowing up the levee. It also would have meant some Brothers with genuine interest at heart would have been on top of the situation rather than the police who looted Black businesses and later ran like cowards after their dirty work was done.

Communities need to police themselves. One of the reasons why communities never grow in my opinion is because the residents of the communities are content with their situation. If you attempt to police the communities those thugs will bust at you, I know I would if I was on the hustle and you tried to regulate me.

I would like to extend my other argument into economics.

I believe that we need to create economical alternatives to crime, in our communities. One of the main reasons why brothers are out on the hustle is the lack of access to fair employment, while I believe in policing the communities to an extent. I do feel like the Jewish communities you mentioned have way more economical capital than most black communities across America. I believe if they were more jobs and more equality for black males in each community across the country, brothers would stop clowning to an extent.

brother Isaiah,

Guess what..if our brothers and sisters in New Orleans had community policing in effect then right now they would be positioned to better assist in rebuilding the 9th Ward because they would not be outsiders trying to regulate and they would be more sensitive to the needs of our displaced relatives returning to the disaster zone. More of our people evacuating would also have been treated more respectfully and there would have been no need for the army corp of engineers who came in and made matters worse by blowing up the levee. It also would have meant some Brothers with genuine interest at heart would have been on top of the situation rather than the police who looted Black businesses and later ran like cowards after their dirty work was done.

Yes, brother OMOWALE, I caught a little problem suggesting that had we had our own Black National Emergency Services Unit in place, then there would not have been a need for the National Guard, or any government services to rescue our people from those rooftops...(smile!)

Again, I'm talking about us building our own infrastructure... Others of us are talking about how our taxes are paid to a government that constantly fails us... Well, then, perhaps we need to take our tax dollars as part of reparations, and build our own institutions... That would be an option, an alternative to dependence on the government...

For brother Manasiac, believe it or not, we once had an informal policing of our own communities, and it was based on our value system... No one would dare hurt an elder, or a child, rip off moms, snatch gold from someones older sister... That stuff was frowned upon, and cats oft got hurt when no one was looking... Aint blowin' smoke, bruh, but I was recruited on some of those parties...(smile!) That's just how stuff worked... Someone said, yo, this one did that to so-and-so's mama, what'chall wanna do it about it??? Knowing what time it was, you could recruit a whole bunch of folks to make an example of someone like that... So, brother, in them days, you didn't "hustle" all out in the open, and in public... You put some shade on your game... These children slingin' drugs today, and in the 1980's, had ZERO concept of community... That's our fault as parents that we decided to reject that value system for the one we have now... Sad.

Peace!
Isaiah:dj:

Yes, brother OMOWALE, I caught a little problem suggesting that had we had our own Black National Emergency Services Unit in place, then there would not have been a need for the National Guard, or any government services to rescue our people from those rooftops...(smile!)

Again, I'm talking about us building our own infrastructure... Others of us are talking about how our taxes are paid to a government that constantly fails us... Well, then, perhaps we need to take our tax dollars as part of reparations, and build our own institutions... That would be an option, an alternative to dependence on the government...

For brother Manasiac, believe it or not, we once had an informal policing of our own communities, and it was based on our value system... No one would dare hurt an elder, or a child, rip off moms, snatch gold from someones older sister... That stuff was frowned upon, and cats oft got hurt when no one was looking... Aint blowin' smoke, bruh, but I was recruited on some of those parties...(smile!) That's just how stuff worked... Someone said, yo, this one did that to so-and-so's mama, what'chall wanna do it about it??? Knowing what time it was, you could recruit a whole bunch of folks to make an example of someone like that... So, brother, in them days, you didn't "hustle" all out in the open, and in public... You put some shade on your game... These children slingin' drugs today, and in the 1980's, had ZERO concept of community... That's our fault as parents that we decided to reject that value system for the one we have now... Sad.

Peace!
Isaiah:dj:


brother Isaiah,

I have not heard any Black folks mention anything about it but I remember some of the initial new coverages in parishes outside of the 9th such as Jefferson and Plaquemines. Them white folks had CITIZEN MILITIA groups, mostly armed white folks, already established, prior to the hurricane, and when the time came they were already armed and kept Black folks from entering Jefferson in particular. For days the white mayor was flying around in a helicopter with special forces spotting groups of folks to mobilize against in order to keep his parish free from Black "outsiders". I am sure that in some of the affected areas in Mississippi and Alabama white folks had militia units ready to deploy also. In NOLA, I recall the Black police chief calling Black folks out but what happened to him later? Ray Nagin had to stay rather than abdicate but I believe that his family is somewhere near me in the Dallas area. No wonder it's snowing here!

By the way, Im all for demanding reparations and using the money for Nation-building.

I would like to extend my other argument into economics.
I believe that we need to create economical alternatives to crime, in our communities. One of the main reasons why brothers are out on the hustle is the lack of access to fair employment, while I believe in policing the communities to an extent. I do feel like the Jewish communities you mentioned have way more economical capital than most black communities across America. I believe if they were more jobs and more equality for black males in each community across the country, brothers would stop clowning to an extent.

When a uneducated (undereducated) young black man is faced with the choice of working a minimum wage job, or making thousands per week dealing drugs, dealing drugs is the logical choice. This choice does not benefit the community, nor is it a good choice for his health/future (the inherent risk to this lifestyle being death at the hands of a rival or a lengthy prison sentence). However it is perfectly logical financially. This is why any geniune attempt at ending drug dealing or other criminal activities (robbing, stealing, etc), has to provide alternative economic solutions. Young black men need to provided with jobs that will allow them to make a living and provide for their families. Attempt to do any less are not acknowledging the primary reason this lifestyle has become so prevelant in the community.

When a uneducated (undereducated) young black man is faced with the choice of working a minimum wage job, or making thousands per week dealing drugs, dealing drugs is the logical choice. This choice does not benefit the community, nor is it a good choice for his health/future (the inherent risk to this lifestyle being death at the hands of a rival or a lengthy prison sentence). However it is perfectly logical financially. This is why any geniune attempt at ending drug dealing or other criminal activities (robbing, stealing, etc), has to provide alternative economic solutions. Young black men need to provided with jobs that will allow them to make a living and provide for their families. Attempt to do any less are not acknowledging the primary reason this lifestyle has become so prevelant in the community.

"Attempt to do any less are not acknowledging the primary reason this lifestyle has become so prevalent in the community."

This is precisely why a lot of attempts to "reform" drug dealers and "gang bangers" fall on deaf ears. Not to justify this lifestyle but "ghetto economics" is based out of scarcity and I myself ran out of arguments at times with some of my neighbors knowing that some who would be routinely harrased by the police and locked up when they were innocent as charged led them to being unable to find employment and they were left with no other means of providing for their families outside of slangin' and bangin'. Sad, but true reality.

I'm with pan on this one. Simply put - there has to be an alternate path for these brothers to make money. Saying they should all just reject materialism isn't realistic.

Brothers/sisters with real skills that could train and teach and mentor need to be plugged into organizations that provide the structure and the means for the hustlers to make it another way.

Could be something completely outside the old models of doing this through churches or schools. Maybe a new institution that hooks promising young folk str8 up with businesses through apprentice programs...Booker T revisited but with technology as the focus instead of A&M.

On black men policing black communities - I don't think so. I was in oldsoul's class night where he talked about MOVE and the Panthers among others. The one thing I took away from it is that organized brothers with guns are seen as military targets. If there had been black folk organized in New Orleans with guns keeping anybody out of anywhere we would've seen how fast the National Guard can get mobilized.

I'm with pan on this one. Simply put - there has to be an alternate path for these brothers to make money. Saying they should all just reject materialism isn't realistic.

Brothers/sisters with real skills that could train and teach and mentor need to be plugged into organizations that provide the structure and the means for the hustlers to make it another way.

Could be something completely outside the old models of doing this through churches or schools. Maybe a new institution that hooks promising young folk str8 up with businesses through apprentice programs...Booker T revisited but with technology as the focus instead of A&M.

On black men policing black communities - I don't think so. I was in oldsoul's class night where he talked about MOVE and the Panthers among others. The one thing I took away from it is that organized brothers with guns are seen as military targets. If there had been black folk organized in New Orleans with guns keeping anybody out of anywhere we would've seen how fast the National Guard can get mobilized.


"Could be something completely outside the old models of doing this through churches or schools.. Maybe a new institution that hooks promising young folk str8 up with businesses through apprentice programs."

This is exactly correct. I can't really cite an example at this time in this forum but I do know of a program in Los Angeles leading into this direction.

Of all people, Tyra Banks started a program a few years ago woking with young women that is leading into this direction. One of my best friends is one of the directors. It provides an example of a program which can be "modeled" and used for networking.

www.tzonefoundation.org

I will reserve comment for now on the community policing question. There is a way this can be done legally, particularly under charter reform and it requires the establishment first of Neighborhood Councils.

I agree we definately need to police our own community.

But before we do so, we must first have a proper understanding and agree to a common set of laws to enforce.

It's become obvious to me that so many of us can't agree on what's right and wrong, that it's crippled our ability to enforce justice in the community.

What is right and wrong in the community?

I think a man who kills another in cold blood should be immediately put to death after a fair trial.
Some bruthas think they should just be "put out" of the community.



I think rapist should be imprisoned and tortured for a time.
Others may think they should get death.
Yet others may say he should be get a light sentence and punished harsher only if he commits the crime again but the problem is if HIS wife or daughter was raped, he'd kill the man himself and you couldn't reason with him.

So who sets the standards?

Some bruthaz want to "play it by ear" and have a wink-n-nod type of understanding in the community where no set laws are established and we take every situation case by case.

More left-brained cats like myself find that type of reasoning almost impossible to comprehend and need a set standard or chart....something concrete and legible....that we can measure an individual against to determine if they are in violation.

My beautiful brothers, I think that it is well past the time for us to police our own communities - with or without the consent of the powers that be... I am well aware that they will attempt to(already have!)stop us from seizing THAT sort of control of our communities, but we must find the path to that end...

If we are to restore some degree of order and respect for our women and children, African men must begin to deal firmly with African men who do not respect order, do not respect women and children, do not respect the elderly, do not respect clean, drug-free environments... It has been clear as day for so long in Black America, that Black man's absence from the affairs of protection and preservation of the traditional values of our communities has left us vulnerable, for example, to police abuses, and unchecked crimminal behaviour... In other words, our inability to control our own internal affairs has given carte blanche to police departments all over the country, to come in and control those affairs for us...

Here in Brooklyn, where we have at least 2 fairly large orthodox Jewish communities living within the African and Latino communites, they patrol these areas, and protect Jewish people - right smack dab in the middle of predominately Black and Latino hoods!!! Who do you suppose they're protecting their Jewish brethren from???(smile!)

Hey, may Yahweh's full blessings be upon them! I agree fully and wholeheartedly with the firm position they've taken, for in taking such a position, they are, it oft seems, immune from police violence... The police understand that they will handle any outta order, outta control Jews, themselves, therefore they've got a hands-off policy toward them... Additionally, as these Jews have attained immense political power through their financial support of politicians, the NYPD is even loathe to give these folks even a parking ticket(smile!) In point of fact, we've literally had near riots over in Williamsburg, Brooklyn(Satmar Orthodox Jewish Community/Latinos)over the issuing of parking tickets to these folks...

I remember that in the early 1980's, the Lubavitcher Orthodox community ran into a police precinct, and near tore it up inside following the arrest of a Jewish male... I gather that many of you heard of the Crown Heights disturbances in 1991, when a Lubavitcher driver ran a red light, and hit and killed young Gavin Cato, and permenantly maimed his sister Angela... The Jewish Ambulance service came a removed Jewish persons from the scene who were not even hurt, while Gavin and Angela lay dead and injured underneath the car that had hit them... Of course, Reverend Al Sharpton was blamed for the disturbance that ensued, as "the Chosen" aint never wrong about anything(smile!)

I say that we need to follow their example, not moan about the preferential treatment they get... Once we've shown our brethren and the world that we will not put up with nothing that does not do the village proud - and that includes utmost respect for African women, children, and elders while within it's confines, we will be able to put these police departments in deep check... Some ideas on this African people???(smile!)

Peace!
isaiah

Some of our "brothers" CHOOSE to be "snitches" instead.

JUST SAYING "HI" TO MY NAMESAKE, OMOWALE'.

WELCOME HOME.
:welldone: