Black Women : WHEN WILL BLACK WOMEN STEP UP TO THE PLATE??? [Archive] - Black People | African Americans

Isaiah

07-12-2004, 08:59 PM

NNQueen

07-12-2004, 10:06 PM

...and take the kinds of dynamic leadership roles our communities are crying out for???

I just wanna know when sisters are gonna step up to the plate, and take their place of world and community leadership, and stop sloughing that responsibility off on brothers(smile!) Ida B. didn't complain, she just did what a strong, dynamic Black woman does, and stepped up her assault on the system... Sistas, I guess they don't make Black Women like dat no mo', huh?(smile!)

Peace!
Zeke

Oooohhh my goodness, the brutha done stepped up in here stirring up the pot! :lol: Go on Brother Isaiah, I hear ya! Not only do you give us a gentle slap on the wrist but you give us a hug at the same time. Why I even had to go back and look at the various threads in this forum to see if I saw what you saw and to some degree, maybe even a large degree, I did. But I also saw evidence of those courageous sisters that you are lauding and holding up to measure us by.

Yes, we do discuss what might seem as petty issues, but sometimes even in the superficial, we might find a deeper meaning. It's all real, even what some might consider mundane and trivial discussions at times, but you know, even though I wasn't there with them, I would think that even Ida B. Wells and Sojourner Truths had their moments of truth that had to deal with the every day "stuff". What you see in these threads Brother Isaiah are sisters who are not afraid to be real. Yes, even to the tune of criticizing our men and each other sometimes. It's still difficult times that we live in.

But still, you're looking for Black women warriors? Well, we're right here brother...fighting in the trenches, working in the kitchens, mopping floors, meeting in board rooms, teaching in classrooms, sitting on judges benches, raising our babies and trying to love our men and survive until the next stage of our evolution. We are fighting the same battles that our brothers are fighting...winning some and trying to maintain without losing ground.

You're right that some of us are lost and focusing on some small issues, but I believe there's enough of us still who are poised and ready to continue the fight that our brave ancestors began so many years ago. Not all of these sisters are Sunday go to meeting type sisters either. There are some who are not in the churches giving their hard earned money to men who call themselves preachers while at the same time squandering it away on material things for their own personal gain while their parrish and community suffer.

You don't have to look far to find us brother! We're not extinct and we're not going anywhere anytime soon.

Queenie :D :toast:

queentswana

07-12-2004, 10:50 PM

Well, here's a fact...Everything that you just laid down was nothing but the truth, however, there is a bottom line to the biggest reason why women don't step up to the plate. And it's called "Religion". That's the top line, the middle line and believe what you will...it's the bottom line. It was numerous of women warriors in our past and not one of them will you be able to connect them with 'religion...not one. They were all spiritual, but none was religious. The religion was designed to separate the mass of people...and it's working just fine. I have to give "white people" their respect because they are very intelligent indeed, the white man wrote the bible and the first thing they did was ...get rid of all the women in the bible. Why? ...we held to much power. there are (I believe) 18 missing books from the bible, have we ever wondered why? ...surely if they were in there, they must have been important. And the down-fall of women didn't just start yesterday or yesteryear...it started thousands of years ago...and a d@m good job was done. I'm saying that to say this, some or many or even most women of today, being religious...feel like they are doing and acting out..."the works of the lord" ...it's been programed in us for hundreds and hundreds of years. At one time we were at the head of "wars" ...but as it is today, ...some women would rather die then lose their 'religion. At one time, I too was in that number, I am boxed into no religion, but I am a very....spiritual woman. And I do understand and agree with all that you said, but again, this is the work of the "white man"

Destee

07-13-2004, 03:02 AM

My Dear Darling Brother Isaiah,

You have certainly started sump'n up in here! I know i gave you that bullet proof vest to use in that other thread, but Brother, you might wanna strap that on right now! :)

You got it on? ... Okay ... then here i go ...

Gosh, to be honest i don't know where to begin, so i'm just gonna start at the beginning of your post and work my way down ... how 'bout that?

Well, no, let me do this first. I wanna say that i read my Sisters' responses, NNQueen and QueenTswana, and must say that they were quite kind and gentle with you. So my thoughts too, will be tempered with the peace and wisdom that they have given to me as an example.

Okay ... now, i can start ...

:)

Mr. Cosby ... oops, my bad ... Brother Isaiah ... :wink: ... you ask when will Black women step up to the plate and take the kinds of dynamic leadership roles our communities are crying for?

You ask this question as though we have not done this. Consider for a moment where we'd be if the Black woman did not step up to the plate, in the most trying of times, and lead our Families. If it were not for the Black woman, there would be no Black Family. Historically, Black men have quite easily started one Family only to leave it and go start another (or a few others) on the other side of town. It is the Black woman who has had the weight of the world on her shoulders. Oftentimes, she has had the great responsibility of raising children alone, and never once considered walking away. Now, like you, i'm not suggesting that all Black men have done this, but certainly enough to give each of us an up close and personal example of this behavior somewhere in our own Family's history.

I realize this is not a "bash black women and men thread," so please don't think i'm going there, because i'm not.

Black men have instilled such fear in the hearts of White men, so much so that they have lived their entire lives insuring (as best they can) that he will never be a real threat to them. Keeping the Black man locked up, unemployed, on the edge, stressed out, hating himself, as well as hated by most. The playing field for the Black man has never been level, and i wonder if it ever will be.

Faced with these overwhelming odds, the Black woman has continued to strive to keep her Family together, including her Black man. In an effort to protect our Black men, and the Black men we give birth to, we can be counted guilty for protecting him, lying for him, working for him, doing all we could to give him to know how valuable he is to us ... while everyone else in the world tells him he's nothing. There are Black women every day "stepping up to the plate," doing what they can to keep their Families together.

This has been going on for many years in this country, it's not just this generation. My Mother shared a story with me before she died. She said that she often wondered why her Mother loved her sons more than she loved her daughters. She said that my Grandmother would always be concerned about her boys. She said it hurt her to see the differences her Mother made between the boys and the girls. When my Grandmother was sick, death not far away, my Mother asked her about this. She wanted to know if she loved her, like she loved her sons. My Grandmother told her that when they were growing up in Mississippi, White men were just taking Black men and hanging them, killing them, for no reason and she had to have this vigilance when it came to the boys because she had made a vow to herself and God, that they would not get her sons too. After all those years, my Mother finally had her answer.

I don't think this story is much different than the story of many Black Families growing up in this country. Black women had to give that extra concern to her sons. I believe this is where the "habit" has grown from, of Black women "coddling their sons." I think many still do it now, but don't recognize the root of where it all came from. Maybe some of that "culture" stuff being passed down, without benefit of why it was needed. I have read comments attacking Black women and their parenting skills (or lack thereof), pointing to this very example as proof that we are unfit ... when in reality ... we are taking leadership roles every single day. Oftentimes having to defend ourselves to the very ones we sacrifice most for.

These WMD put upon the Black male, has taken a great toll on the Black female as well. Consider please, it's been hundreds of years. We have evolved into something other than ourselves, all of us, black men and women. Black women have begun to look upon each other as the enemy. We have turned away from our natural instinct to come together, share experiences, receive wisdom, console and trust each other. We have all strayed so far. So this community gives us an opportunity to come back together. We can talk of the light hearted things that concern us, as well as the more serious matters. We can laugh together, and know that our experiences are not so different than our Sisters. We can and have realized that we want and need each other in ways that no one else can fulfill, for there is no one else that lives our exact experience, only another Black woman. So yes, you may read some threads that seem trivial on the surface, but it is all a healing process much needed by your Sisters. So please don't discount it as foolishness or a waste of time. These are our experiences, and we are glad we have each other to discuss these topics with.

I'm just guessing now, but i'd imagine the Black Church has given many Black women this same opportunity, a sense of belonging. Outside of your children, one's immediate Family, there is a bigger Family, an emotional, spiritual, physical support system. Full of others just like you, struggling to make it. Why do they give their money to the leaders of these churches ... perhaps they just want to believe that such a place exists somewhere on this earth, where they can let their guard down and relax. After all, they are amongst their own. As i type this, i can't think of any organization where Black women can go to receive support from their own (however little it may be), except the Black Church. I don't know Brother Isaiah, your guess is as good as mine on this one.

Now i must admit, i do believe that Sisters have taken some pages out of the Brother's book and begun to leave their Families with no obvious regret. Many factors play into this, drugs being one of them, and our Families are suffering even more than they ever have. I don't believe Sisters are doing this in an attempt to put the responsibility on the Brothers (Fathers), because it is oftentimes not the Brother that picks it up. Instead, it is the Grandmother, the Sister, the Brother, the Aunt, etc., that is now raising the child(ren).

Nope, Sisters aren't complaining about what a Brother aint doing, she's simply started not doing too ... and can you really blame her?! Gosh! How long must your Sisters travel this road alone, before she simply gives up and/or out?!

Again, i don't believe most young Sisters today have the knowledge of their elders, when it comes to these things, to rely upon. So all she has is what she sees, a world full of "stuff" and she aint gett'n none. Black men want to sex her, make a baby, then leave ... far too often, into the arms of a White woman (or some woman that does not look like her). So this young woman says, "Oh, it's like that?! Okay, two can play this game!" ... and off she goes because there was no solid foundation upon which to stand, no ability to see beyond her situation. Sadly, far too few of our Brothers can see beyond themselves either.

Our problems are not about what Black women are not doing, it really should be about what we are not doing. We're all in this together.

Yes, we are strong, we are able, we are willing, but we are also tired and we need the strength of our Brothers in order to fully realize the true capacity of our own.

:heart:

Destee

Isaiah

07-13-2004, 06:32 AM

Whew, Lawd, sistas, thank you for your varied and reasoned responses... I was thinking I'm gonna regret this post, but now I feel reassured(smile!)

Let me just say, NNQueen and Destee, I all know about the tremendous sacrifices of African women throughout world history, and that is why I put out a special message to say to the women at this board, and beyond, that you are needed more than ever now to step to the forefront of leadership in the Black Community... No longer should you "play the wall" looking for leadership from Black Men, because, I tell ya, from a Black male perspective, that we brothers are decimated, and looking for leadership ourselves... Those that want to lead are bombarded and overwhelmed with trying to make the hoods and the thugs and the ne'er do wells, see the light...

I remember Nelson Mandela, I believe, said that it would be the women of South Africa that would determine that country's destiny. He understood that when Black Women in South African got angry, and decided to fight, then, and only then, would Apartheid in South Africa end... I think Nelson Mandela understood the power and the majesty of Black Women better than we do here, because we have been so Europeanized, so inculcated with the Patriarchal ethos of the European, that diminishes and hates women, that we forgot that we came from a tradition of placing woman at the right hand of God. Even Black Women in America have long forgotten just how powerful and important they are in our tradition...

Well, Black Women need to begin reaquainting themselves with Ella Baker, Septima Clarke, Ruby Doris Robinson, Dorothy Cotton, Ida B. Wells, and the strong Black women who made the Civil Rights Movement possible... Sisters need to take another look at Rosa Parks, and understand her significance, understand the great chance she took standing up for our humanity on that day in '55... Am I the only one who worships that woman, and what she did, putting her body on the line for children yet unborn??? I was listening to the Neville Brothers paying tribute to her in a song last week, and tears just started streaming from eyes... Good God, she was so brave and corageous in the hour when courage and bravery was so direly needed, yet in such short supply...

Well, she set the example for a lot of less than corageous types, to stand up and be counted... The rest is stuff of history, a misty legend we Black folks, especially Black Women, seem to have forgotten...

You are right, Destee, about the tremendous sacrifices Black Women have made over the centuries, and I am not anything less than complimentary of that... I owe my own existence to the great sacrifices Black Women have made putting up with me - no joke... But to whom much is given, much is expected of them... When I look upon Black Women, it is clear much in the way of warmth and beauty and power has been bestowed upon them... Women who can raise the babies, White and Black, of more than 100 nations, are well-endowed, to say the least... That is why I am saying that rather than sisters continuing to stand "behind" Black men - who aint doing jack but profiling - they need to upset the applecart a little, and drive the wagon... I have seen enough of Black men making excuses for our compromise with the devil, while our women and children suffered from our selfishness and ego, and I'm tired of it...

On the other hand, women like Cynthia McKinney, that beautiful Black Goddess from Georgia, and Barbara Lee of California, take strong, humane, and uncompromising positions, and are punished without a mumbling word heard from Black men... If that is all we can expect from our milquetoast selves, then we need to step back up off Black Women, and let them do what their intuition and consciousnesses tell them to do...

The sista convos can continue in earnest now... I've said what I had to say, and will not revisit this issue too often anymore... I am only interested in waking the sleeping lionesses, not in being the signifyin' monkey looking for trouble... I am simply saying that I can, and would, accept Black Female leadership, and would advocate it at every turn, would defend it at every turn... In light of the quality of leadership exhibited by men of all kinds, I believe women, particularly Black Women, are an untapped resource we cannot continue to allow to waste... God put Women here to lead governments, as well as their households, and because we eschewed that Godly edict to impose our male egos on things of the spirit, we've gone astray, and lost our way... Women need to lead us back toward the right path... Up you mighty Black Woman, I know you can accomplish anything you will...

Peace!
Isaiah

panafrica

07-13-2004, 06:45 AM

Whew, Lawd, sistas, thank you for your varied and reasoned responses... I was thinking I'm gonna regret this post, but now I feel reassured(smile!)

I think you still might regret this post...all the ladies haven't responded yet (it is only 1 day old). SMH...it was nice knowing you brother Isaiah, you'll be missed.

NNQueen

07-13-2004, 09:53 AM

lol@Panafrica! Brother Isaiah, let me give you a big hug 'cause I know you didn't mean us any harm! (Although for a minute I was looking at you with my head cocked at an angle). :lol:

What you are saying is true about our foremothers who fought bravely and eloquently in their fight for our freedom and justice and equality. They fought for the safety of our men and our children. They selflessly put their lives on the line to end the raping of our bodies and the assault against our character. They stood when others tried to break them down. They mimicked their African ancestors who passed on their genes which I believe carried the instinct to be brave and fearless in the face of an enemy. We haven't forgotten.

There was a time not so long ago Brother when we KNEW who our enemies were. They showed their faces to us every day and we recognized them. Today, the face of our enemy is not so clear because some look like us. It's difficult to fight who once was an ally but now acts like the enemy. I believe that will be the unanticipated legacy of integration.

Do we know who we are anymore? Do we know who our allies are anymore? Are they our neighbors? Are they the teachers who interact with our children? Are they the groceryman or the dentist? What about our pastors? Where are the soldiers and who are the enemies that we want to fight against? How can we tell?

Queenie :spinstar:

Destee

07-13-2004, 04:14 PM

Brother Isaiah,

Maybe it's just me, i do tend to take some things personally and when i do, i have more difficulty seeing the full value in what's being shared. Perhaps i'm doing that now, and if so, please forgive and be patient with me, for i do want to understand.

There seems to be an accusatory tone to what you're saying, which makes it difficult for me to embrace the compliments being given at the same time. Sister Queenie obviously noticed it too, as she said, "Not only do you give us a gentle slap on the wrist but you give us a hug at the same time." I prefer my hugs not be mixed with my beatings.

For example, you say, "No longer should you 'play the wall' looking for leadership from Black Men ..." Who exactly are you speaking of when you say these words? Would you mind clearly identifying who these Sisters are? I don't know them. As i try to imagine them, i figure you might be talking about the women in the church, but by your own admission, it is not the man that is leading that effort. Yes, he may be given the priviledge of sitting in that spot, for whatever reason the Sisters prefer he be there ... but he is hardly leading. Brother Isaiah, please point these women out to me.

You have graciously listed many Sisters that are and have worked very hard to move our people forward, as an encouragement to prod us on up the mountain ... but at the same time, there are many Brothers that have done the same ... yet you fail to encourage Brothers to look at these men and come to themselves, do what they need to do so our people can get beyond this point.

It's almost as though you have written Black men off, excused them from responsibility ... but the work still needs doing ... so now you tell us about how great and powerful we are. So while we are out in the fields, in the heat of the day, already doing double the work of the average person (because our male counterpart is not there, and has not been there for quite some time), all we have to do is think of the flowery words you've shared and the sun beating down on our already tired bodies, will not be so hot, and these words will inspire us to produce even more, because you have great confidence in us?!

I do appreciate the confidence you have in us, and it is not misplaced. But as an elder male, don't you think it is as equally important, if not more so, for you to say the same to Brothers? I would think you'd say these things to them, considering the condition they are in ... long before you ever say it to us.

You start this thread with a title that implies we are not doing our part, and all within it, you accuse us of that very thing, going so far as to say we are "sloughing off responsibility to Brothers" ... when based on your own description of the current condition of Brothers ... they are hardly in any shape to do anything substantive for themselves, let alone our people ... and then you all but excuse them!

We have a Brothers Forum too, Brother Isaiah. I think it is as wrong as wrong can be, to not work to encourage our Brothers to come up out of that hole they're in and be the men that their Families and communities need them to be. Instead you say to us, just work harder!

Again, i'm not sure if i'm missing something in your message. I must be, because this makes no sense to me at all. If it is compliments you want to give us, we need them, so please continue. If it is admonishment, we are probably in need of that as well, so give it too. But whichever it is, make yourself clear, so we receive it all properly.

Brother Isaiah, you are more than welcome to visit the Sisters Forum whenever you want, asking whatever you will ... and likewise ... Sisters are welcome in the Brothers Forum to do the same. So please, don't stay away from us. We need you. We need all our Brothers.

I'm having trouble understanding what great impact we as women can have, without the strength of our men with us. Certainly we can do some great things, as has been proven ... but it is because we are not working together, hand in hand, that we suffer like we do.

I don't believe we can ever fully realize our true potential as a people, until we are working together, Black men and Black women. If you are suggesting that we, Black women, should move forward without the hope of our Brother's support, then that is another thing ... a very sad and devasting thing ... which calls for a complete reassessment of life as we know it. If that is what you're suggesting, then things are worse than i ever imagined them to be.

:heart:

Destee

Sekhemu

07-13-2004, 07:04 PM

NN very good points. Isaiah you make some very eloquent references about Nelson Mandela, which leads me to a very special legacy regarding black people.

Most of the family knows the Story of the murder and dismemberment into 14 pieces of the God Asar(osiris) and the reconstituting of those "pieces" by the Magick of his wife, the Goddess Aset.

What does this story say to me? That our women possess the power to resurrect the entire race. but are not using the "power" to do so. I don't want to step on any toes hear, but I would go so far to say that because of the religious endoctrination by Europeans, most of us are afraid to accept this power as being
valid, let alone a positive.

Well I know of at least one classic example. and this was the Haitian revolution. Although there was a conventional battle with Napoleon. there were also other "methods" employed. But this time around we have a larger and well read cadre of black women and men, that can make a larger and lasting difference.

Asar awaits for the healing hands

NNQueen

07-13-2004, 08:22 PM

Our Brother Isaiah, as you can see you have touched upon a topic that draws energy from us in different ways. My Sister Destee seeks to understand your purpose and meaning behind your words and struggles to find a sense of balance in your edict to Black women in this forum and possibly overall.

Personally, I choose not to second guess your purpose and will take your words at face value. I sense no hostility nor meanspirited intent on your part. I receive your message as a call to action that is driven by a reawakening of our innate power and natural abilities. The women that you compare us to are martyrs in their own right. There is nothing really so different between them and us except, maybe, they have taken their fight directly to the oppressors in a far more aggressive way.

Although I understand the need for balance among our people--Black men and women fighting our battles together, I don't disagree that, the charge must be led and the battle cry called by Black women. I don't think this way because I believe we are more powerful, more courageous or better skilled at doing this than Black men, no, I think this is true and necessary because we're not seen as a threat to anyone.

Certainly and without question, we are capable of taking our battle to the power that wants us face down lying in the dirt. Many years ago I read a novel by Paula Giddings entitled, "When and Where I Enter" and in it I found the true calling for Black women. Giddings pointed out the women, most of whom you have named, that paved the way for us being here today. She wrote about our great-great-grandmothers and great-grandmothers who were the glue and backbone for our families and our communities. She also assigned us...Black women in the 21st Century...the responsibility for opening the doors to our freedom as a race, and as we enter, so shall our people.

Truly, I don't take offense as your message...because unlike Cosby, you're not pointing the finger at us in shame. My sense is that you're trying to breathe life back into us and letting us know that it's okay for us to do our thing without criticism or malice or ego-tripping among our men. Release us from the bondage that has our hands tied. Remind us of who we were, are and were meant to be. Point us in the right direction by using our ancestors as a guide. We know how, we just need to find the will and the way.

Peace and power in the struggle.
Queenie :spinstar:

Alkebulan

07-13-2004, 09:16 PM

Boat docking was a foreshadowing of what was to come
Mothers watched offspring exchanged for molasses & rum
Parting made many feel as if their heart would just burst
Requests for leniency were greeted w/whip blows u would nurse

A fine appearance is a blessing but here it was the reverse
The natural beauty of a sister was at auctions a curse
Some of our best could not escape the chains of their worst
Prospects 4 death make u shudder, sometimes living seems worse

was not so long ago our black sisters were held captive
held onto the tightest were those thought most attractive
Many sisters encountered an additional workload
Child bearing & rearing duties often on them bestowed

After slaving in the field they oft prepared the abode
Mother luv cruelly used to block escape freedom s road
Sex abuses by slavers left them violatedly old
A refusal got reprisal, your children beaten or sold

U can t feel good about your body when its by others controlled

New arrivals, smartly whipped at the start of their stay
Produce from the 1st workshift that night would be weighed
Failure to keep the standard u set on that 1st day
Ur soul severely tried, but w ur flesh u must pay

But these sisters didn t cower, complaining & crying
They worked 4 decades to buy freedom whites were denying
They sought divine intervention to help their slavery uprising
For raising generations of resistance they were the most enterprising

That we multiplied at all documents that they resisted
If they had given up, our race just would not have persisted
This is not to say the help of males was not sometimes enlisted
But the bulk of family protectors of sisters mainly consisted

U may not consider pregnancy extraordinary
A documented example shows the difficulty

Francis kemble & pierce ran a georgia plantation
Too many pregnancies ended in abrupt termination
There were constant complaints w requests for revisions
The following input was just 1 days petitions

Tammy bore 6 children, all died but 1
Nannys had 3; she is left w one son
Leah, pregnant times 6; those now living were half
Profit making was generating some debased deadly math

Sophy suffered bearing 10 of which remain only 5
Of sarahs 4 miscarriages & 7 birthings, only two were alive
Heavy labor imposed while pregnant obviously internecine
One unnamed sisters infant deaths were numbered at 14!

You re not considered a real man if u cannot defend your lover
Can t take pride in procreating pregnancies controlled by others

Patsy, though enslaved was a joyful luv creature
Till unwanted attention began to beseech er
U can t imagine a plight producing more grief and strife
Than being the lust object of a master w a jealous spiteful wife

No matter what course she choose, destined to be thought bad
Every possible behavior bound to make someone mad
Her back heavily scarred from at least 1,000 strikes
Her privates were marred by forced sexploitation at night

Nothing pleased the wife more than seeing patsy suffer
And she looked for excuses to make her days & nights rougher
One final savage beating enjoyed by the wife & her litter
Broke the heart & will of patsy, & for the rest of life bitter

(exerpt from a poem dedicated 2 our sisters)

:toast: :thanks:

Isaiah

07-13-2004, 09:29 PM

"Maybe it's just me, i do tend to take some things personally and when i do, i have more difficulty seeing the full value in what's being shared. Perhaps i'm doing that now, and if so, please forgive and be patient with me, for i do want to understand."

*******************************************
Yes, sister, I do understand, and I will be as patient as you allow me to be...
********************************************
"There seems to be an accusatory tone to what you're saying, which makes it difficult for me to embrace the compliments being given at the same time. Sister Queenie obviously noticed it too, as she said, "Not only do you give us a gentle slap on the wrist but you give us a hug at the same time." I prefer my hugs not be mixed with my beatings."

*******************************************
Sister, I assure you that I am not making vile and vacuous accusations that seek to bash Black Women... That's simply not my style, nor is it my intention... It is counter-productive to say the least. Nor am I seeking to either hug or beat down African Women... I am seeking, indeed, to make an honest and constructive critique, yet it seems that no critique of sisters can be heard through the cognitive dissonance... Brass Knuckle truth is, that is an area I have had difficulty with women for all of my 45 years on the planet, and that is how to constructively criticize them without hurting their feelings... Yet, how can there truly be honest relations between people when you cannot say to them that they are less than perfect, and are human just as you are???(smile!)

You know, Destee, we are of age here, We have no control over what folks are going to say, nor how they will receive what we say, but we just gotta handle it, whatever is said(smile!) As a man, I compliment women frequently, and I have no idea how they're gonna respond... It's really not important to me how they respond, as long as I know my intentions were to uplift someone's spirit - which was more than they chose to do for me, dig? Now, I am not understanding what seems implicit in your statement, "I prefer my hugs not be mixed with my beatings..." I will let you explain that to me, because I had no intention of hugging or beating on sisters... I had as my intention to seek answers for why they have not completely seized power of an institution that control considerable wealth and power in our community...
********************************************
For example, you say, "No longer should you 'play the wall' looking for leadership from Black Men ..." Who exactly are you speaking of when you say these words? Would you mind clearly identifying who these Sisters are? I don't know them. As i try to imagine them, i figure you might be talking about the women in the church, but by your own admission, it is not the man that is leading that effort. Yes, he may be given the priviledge of sitting in that spot, for whatever reason the Sisters prefer he be there ... but he is hardly leading. Brother Isaiah, please point these women out to me.
**********************************************

My Beautiful sister, these women could be your mother, grandmother, sister or mine... They are the same women who dedicate their lives to an institution that never gives them a return on their investment beyond the "spiritual", and that's debateable(smile!) They are counted upon to build the building, uphold the mortgage, cook the food, sew the robes, keep the books, and keep the pastor clean, and clear of any responsibility beyond his sunday sermon... Yes, they control everything but the most consequential thing, and that is how the money is spent... Sister, I am talking economics here, not homiletics...
*********************************************

You have graciously listed many Sisters that are and have worked very hard to move our people forward, as an encouragement to prod us on up the mountain ... but at the same time, there are many Brothers that have done the same ... yet you fail to encourage Brothers to look at these men and come to themselves, do what they need to do so our people can get beyond this point.
**********************************************
Sister Destee, read my posts on the Cosby threads... Read my posts on the Elevating Tupac thread, as well as, a few others... I cannot, nor should I be expected to cover the gamut in the few threads I've posted on since I began here... But I encourage Black men and Black youth to be productive, and seek solutions to our community problems... Sorry you are feeling I am taking off on a riff on sisters... I assure you that I will not utter not another critical word about African women at this board... I took the temperature for that, and have found it too cool for me...(smile!)
*********************************************
It's almost as though you have written Black men off, excused them from responsibility ... but the work still needs doing ... so now you tell us about how great and powerful we are. So while we are out in the fields, in the heat of the day, already doing double the work of the average person (because our male counterpart is not there, and has not been there for quite some time), all we have to do is think of the flowery words you've shared and the sun beating down on our already tired bodies, will not be so hot, and these words will inspire us to produce even more, because you have great confidence in us?!
**********************************************
No sister, I am merely saying to African Women that they must step to the forefront to fulfill a role they have been fulfilling in the background for quite a long time... You are right, African men must also be there at the sisters' side fulfilling their roles in time and space, or we are doomed to obselescence... I am saying to African Women that they are quite inspirational to African men in ways far beyond the hormonal... All that we do to keep ourselves together is based on our desire to look good in a woman's eyes, and most honest brother's will say that... But if African Women will not uphold a high standard for their men, then they will reap the results of that... The choice is yours...
*********************************************

I do appreciate the confidence you have in us, and it is not misplaced. But as an elder male, don't you think it is as equally important, if not more so, for you to say the same to Brothers? I would think you'd say these things to them, considering the condition they are in ... long before you ever say it to us.

You start this thread with a title that implies we are not doing our part, and all within it, you accuse us of that very thing, going so far as to say we are "sloughing off responsibility to Brothers" ... when based on your own description of the current condition of Brothers ... they are hardly in any shape to do anything substantive for themselves, let alone our people ... and then you all but excuse them!
**********************************************
Sister Destee, I think this is your roundabout way of saying don't criticize African Women, and I will refrain from doing so... I critique African men far more than I do African women, and believe it or not, I do so because I understand what brother Pan and brother Sekhemu have subtly implied in their statements to this thread... I know where they are coming from, but I thought that as sisters often say that brothers aren't honest with them, i would be... Sorry about that, really...(smile!)
*********************************************
We have a Brothers Forum too, Brother Isaiah. I think it is as wrong as wrong can be, to not work to encourage our Brothers to come up out of that hole they're in and be the men that their Families and communities need them to be. Instead you say to us, just work harder!
*********************************************

Thank you, sister Destee, for the directions... I will not venture over to this forum again...
*********************************************

Again, i'm not sure if i'm missing something in your message. I must be, because this makes no sense to me at all. If it is compliments you want to give us, we need them, so please continue. If it is admonishment, we are probably in need of that as well, so give it too. But whichever it is, make yourself clear, so we receive it all properly.
**********************************************
Sister Destee, don't talk out of both sides of your mouth to me... I am a pretty plain-spoken cat, and I'm at that age where I am most impatient with B.S. mixed messages... I will say what I want to say, when I want to say it, and attempt to be as respectful as folks allow me to be... I am not trying to be all things to all people, just Isaiah, and sometimes that's quite a complex maneuver...
**********************************************
Brother Isaiah, you are more than welcome to visit the Sisters Forum whenever you want, asking whatever you will ... and likewise ... Sisters are welcome in the Brothers Forum to do the same. So please, don't stay away from us. We need you. We need all our Brothers.
**********************************************
Mixed Message, Sister Destee - from my purview...
**********************************************
I'm having trouble understanding what great impact we as women can have, without the strength of our men with us. Certainly we can do some great things, as has been proven ... but it is because we are not working together, hand in hand, that we suffer like we do.
*********************************************
Any further comments from me are superflous...
********************************************

Peace!
ISAIAH

river

07-13-2004, 10:16 PM

river

07-14-2004, 12:06 AM

I think you still might regret this post...all the ladies haven't responded yet (it is only 1 day old). SMH...it was nice knowing you brother Isaiah, you'll be missed.
LOLJOLOL@Pan

You rule, Suger

Destee

07-14-2004, 12:22 AM

Brother Isaiah,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comments.

Recently in voice chat (http://destee.com/chat), the term "cognitive dissonance" was introduced and explained to me. Since i'm using the phrase, i just looked it up, and the definition given, doesn't match exactly what i was told. But at any rate, as a result of the way it was explained to me, i've scaled back considerably the sharing of my opinions here, as it is not my desire to sway the natural flow of communication between us.

It was not real easy for those Brothers to get me to understand. I first took what they were saying personally. It was only after they presented it another way, was i able to see. I appreciated their diligence and patience with me.

I realize not everyone will have the time or desire to labor with me, but in this situation, the simple mention of that phrase gives me reason to stop (and think).

Brother Isaiah, you have given nothing but respect and kind consideration to this community. I do believe that even with this thread, that is your intention. I will challenge myself to think on the things you've shared, and look at them in different ways, so that i too might receive the wisdom within.

My words are sincere, you are welcome to share whatever you think will enlighten us, in this and every forum found here.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

Destee

07-14-2004, 05:28 AM

Brother Isaiah ... i was thinking (again!) ... the Brothers that helped me understand what they were saying in regard to cognitive dissonance, probably would not have been as successful had we not been in voice chat (http://destee.com/chat). It provides an opportunity for us to talk together, where we can actually hear each other's voices and it's much easier to explain there, than here.

Here on the forum, we are more limited, because we can't always type out exactly what we're trying to say ... or hear another's response ... or answer the question as fully. Voice chat adds an entire dimension to the communication process.

I'd hate to think that i'm difficult to communicate with, when this entire effort is all about our communicating and understanding each other. While i've scaled back my opinion sharing on the forum to a degree, i still spend much time in voice chat.

While you may find that's a good reason to stay away from there (smile!), i'd like to invite you (and everyone) to join us in voice chat (http://destee.com/chat). Whatever hurdles we, Sisters and Brothers, may have when it comes to communicating with each other, it's my hope that we can overcome them.

Please feel free to join us there too, anytime.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

Isaiah

07-14-2004, 06:57 AM

Isaiah

07-14-2004, 06:59 AM

Great Poem, Brother Alkebulan!!! Couldn't have said it better myself(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

NNQueen

07-14-2004, 12:58 PM

WAIT...what did I miss here? Am I an alien? I didn't receive Brother Isaiah's message as a negative depiction of Black women nor did I think he was excusing Black men from taking any responsibility for our evolution. My sisters just climbed all over the man and slapped him up side the head, put a foot in his back and shoved him out the door! :lol: What's going on?

Sure, when I first saw this thread I admit I had to squint my eyes a bit and read real fast to see what his point was but then I thought....having read Brother Isaiah in so many other threads, I felt this was his way of encouraging us, challenging us, if you will, and not bashing us or trying to tell us what to discuss in this forum. :lol: Sure...maybe he coulda been a bit more compassionate and understanding that not ALL of our issues are about the battles we fight everyday with racism/sexism an the like. Sometimes--and men may not be able to understand this--we Black women just need a place to come to--a safe refuge--where we can talk about WHATEVER we want to talk about. Even the warrior needs time to eat, sleep, go potty, make love and bond in ways other than on the battlefield.

But my goodness sisters...let's not get our hackles up so quickly or be quick to crucify our brother. After all, he's just a man who needs our help to better understand who we are and what we are made of. He recognizes what we're capable of because he's seen it done by our queens of yesterday. Unfortunately there's a veil he wears over his eyes because he doesn't see us here now--still fighting--still defending--still healing and nurturing--still leading the way like a guide in a jungle swinging a machete to clear a path for all to walk unobstructed.

Therefore my sisters, some of our brothers are fragile and need to be handled gently and with a bit more patience. Let's simply help to remove his veil and give him a chance. :D

Salute!
Queenie :heart:

Destee

07-14-2004, 01:36 PM

WAIT...what did I miss here? Am I an alien?

Well Sister Queenie ... i didn't wanna say nuth'n ... but you aint got no whole bunch of sensitive emotions coursing thru yo' body (that i've seen evidence of) ... and that could be considered sorta alien-ish ... maybe there's a test you can take ... :lol:

Brother Isaiah ... i do thank you for your apology, but you've done nothing to apologize for ... this is a discussion forum and we've only been discussing ... i appreciate you being here with us to do that and i'm looking forward to more.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

river

07-14-2004, 02:18 PM

Sisters River and Destee, I apologize to you, and any sisters who felt I besmirched or mischaracterized African Women. You are absolutely correct to say words to the effect that I had no business in the Women's forum, or to make commentary on what women discuss... It is your right and privilege to discuss whatever you wish without my critique...

I assure you that it will not happen again, as I will reserve my comments for the open forums, where both men and women can share their ideas together, because that is what community is about: masking no truths, telling no lies, and claiming no easy victories.... Once again, my apologies to you both, and hopefully, no lingering hard feelings(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah
Hard feelings? No sir. My post was about your post. Not about you ar the opinion I hold of you. And I apologize to you too because if I had waited perhaps I would have gained the same second insight into what you were saying as Queenie did. Though I think I would have responded the same way to your initial post.

"I am reading these threads for the first time, and I understand why I have not ventured into this forum before... Ya know, men have intuition, too, sistas(smile!) Y'all are in here talkin' about baby mama this and that, why white beauty standards affect y'all more than us, and our nation is burning down all around us... A nation reflects the state of mind of its women - or she who rocks the cradle...
"

Yes, I had to respond to that and I appreciate your understanding why.

You guys have taken this thread far beyond what is posted and discussed on this board to where we are in general and the roles Black women play today. As I look around I think that one of the reasons we don't see the kind of sacrificial courage that our foremothers exhibited is because today's Black woman feels she has so much to lose within the system. When we sacrifice to make things easier for our children we make things harder for our grandchildren. It's not so clear to us now that the gods of this system have the deck marked against us. Even the masses think that they can work within the system and make a million dollars playing basketball. As if money equals success. To move forward as leaders we must not value our lives as something we have to lose because they will kill us if we dare to seek real power. We must not be to dainty and squeamish to go into the hoods and touch the people there.

I really have no hard feelings toward you, brother. Never did. I just said what I felt needed to be said. I think if I keep hanging around with Queenie and Destee I will learn to say things with more grace. :heart: :peace:

NNQueen

07-14-2004, 04:51 PM

Well Sister Queenie ... i didn't wanna say nuth'n ... but you aint got no whole bunch of sensitive emotions coursing thru yo' body (that i've seen evidence of) ... and that could be considered sorta alien-ish ... maybe there's a test you can take ... :lol:

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

I'm workin' on that Des! Gurl, you know it's ruff! :martian: :lol: Besides, since I started my 12-step program on how to be more sensitive, I've elected Brother Isaiah to be my test case. See, how nice I was--so understanding and patient with him? :angel:

After all, it takes a while to go thru all the steps and you know a cure doesn't just happen overnight! Now I feel I must share this new found knowledge about "sensitivity" with my sisters. :D

Y'all jumped the po man and swatted him like he was a mosquito. Then to add insult to injury, the poor man got boot prints all on his back as you told him he wudn't talkin' 'bout nuthin'! Shoot... Had him grabbin' for his private parts to hold on to so you wouldn't take them too...Had him duckin' and dodgin'... :uzi: *smh*

My sistas...I jus luv y'all but y'all got ta do better in the patience department! We have to do a better job teaching our brothers who don't really know us, how to find us when they need to. :teach: We know they don't have to look far, but the point is, they don't know that.

Queenie :help:

river

07-14-2004, 07:14 PM

After all, they are men and men know everything. This is a man's world isn't it. Except here in our precious sistah forum. The dude chose to move into dangerous waters. Can't help it if the shark in me comes out sometimes. 'Sides I was just needing something to shine the bottom of my shoes and his back seemed good enough for the job. :jumping:

PurpleMoons

07-14-2004, 08:07 PM

LOL! My Sister's are fierce! Not only do they step up to the plate, they been putting the food on 'em every since I can remember!

Yall are just to much! Luv yall and my fearless Brothers too!

NNQueen

07-15-2004, 07:02 PM

Oooohhhh Brother Isaiah...where are youuuuuu??? :wave:

Come on nah, I know you ain't let my sistas run you up outta here after a lil scuffle like that! That wuz lightweight brotha, I know you got bigger cahoonas than that! :uhoh: Sista River didn't mean to shine her shoes on your back, you just happen to be in the right place at the wrong time, that's all. Honest! :angel: I'll even volunteer to give you a back rub brotha 'cause I know those boots hurt yesterday. Don't let 'em scur you man! Just chalk it up to a lil luv tap! :spank:

Oh my goodness...I ain't seent the brotha ALL day! See whatchall did? :hot:

Oh well...I hope he's able to sit up in bed and take nourishment real soon! :weird: Next time he step up in here I want all y'all to show that man some luv! :flirt: :mad:

Peace
Queenie :look:

Destee

07-15-2004, 07:11 PM

Oh Sister Queenie ... i'm sure Brother Isaiah is just fine ... probably somewhere celebrating that he has finally found some Sisters that are outspoken and well-spoken! Doing things for their community, as best they can!

Yeah ... this thread was probably just a test ... and we passed with flying colors!

Surely he'll be back soon, as he'd not leave us now that he's found us!

:heart:

Destee

river

07-16-2004, 05:02 PM

Queenie,

Lawd knows I wasn't trying to do nuhthin to dat man. But you knows how dusty and scuffed up our po shoes get dancin up and down dem crystal stairs all night. My brothas luv to see us looking good from head to toe so I had to shine dem shoes fore I could get on da good foot. 'Sides a little Tide with bleach will take care of his shirt. I can do tha too case ya'll didn't know

MANASIAC

07-17-2004, 10:17 PM

I think Black Women have stepped up and beyond the plate, the problem is we got Boo Boo Brother posing as Men who have not even came into the Ballpark yet, let alone step to the plate.

caramelpython

07-25-2004, 07:49 PM

I think Black Women have stepped up and beyond the plate, the problem is we got Boo Boo Brother posing as Men who have not even came into the Ballpark yet, let alone step to the plate.

Brother I would have to agree with you on thin in some degree!

river

07-26-2004, 01:29 AM

There's good, bad and ugly in both genders. I would never lay the blame squarely at the feet of Black men (digressing to the king's English now). I've known too many to do that, whether it is my father, grandfather or whoever. Inimical attitudes of disdain do not lead to pamoja (togetherness).

KWABENA

07-28-2004, 08:22 PM

I had to read Destee, Isaiah, and NNQueen's posts from this thread, because they made the topic very interesting.

All the time that I blamed single female parents for kids going out of control. I read what the posts said, and the number one thing that I got out of it was the reason Black women are how they are. THEY ARE TIRED. Yes, they cook, they clean, they take care of families, but they cannot hold all of that weight on their backs. Our brothers being absent from families, and starting new families is painful for the mothers and the children. We need to be closer, and be dedicated; make committments and not run away from them.

All I know is Black women (Sisters-Warriors) need us and Black Men (Brothers-Warriors) need them. As a joint effort, things will be a whole lot better.

napturaltwistie

08-14-2004, 05:39 PM

"am reading these threads for the first time, and I understand why I have not ventured into this forum before... Ya know, men have intuition, too, sistas(smile!) Y'all are in here talkin' about baby mama this and that, why white beauty standards affect y'all more than us, and our nation is burning down all around us... A nation reflects the state of mind of its women - or she who rocks the cradle..."

i haven't posted in this forum in a while and i haven't read all of the responses to this thread but i was the one who started the topic about the beauty standards.......I beleive that is an issue that affects the self esteem of black women and adds top our many problems....you may not feel it's important because you are a man....but it's important to those little girls who doubt their self worth....it also reflects the sexism and racism combined that black women face.....so just because you as a man don't have to go through it and don't think it's important enough to discuss doesn't make it any less of important to black women.....

the part of your post that i quoted above came off as a little selfish to me because it seems that you think that just because certain issues don't affect you as a black man then they are not important....that is kind of offensive to me.

oh and by the way...there have been plenty of black women who have stepped up to the plate and played an active role in getting us where we are today, just because women weren't allowed to be leaders doesn't meant they didn't participate just as much as men in the advancement of our people

I will agree with you that black women could take more of a positive role in the community though.....it's hard to keep a community straight when so many women are raising children on their own though and having to work to support those children...but the same could be said of black men and them playing a more positive role.

i think both women and men could play a more active role in the community by first setting their priorities straight and investing in the right things instead of clothes, cars, shoes and t.v.

you mentioned that all black women do is sit around and complain about black men.....but i actually see more of that from black men than i do women...even when i see black women complain most aren't as viscious in thier complaints about black men as i've seen brothas be....of course these negative men don't refelct all black men because i've met a lot who are positive..

napturaltwistie

08-14-2004, 06:05 PM

Isaiah

08-14-2004, 10:08 PM

...and take the kinds of dynamic leadership roles our communities are crying out for???

I am reading these threads for the first time, and I understand why I have not ventured into this forum before... Ya know, men have intuition, too, sistas(smile!) Y'all are in here talkin' about baby mama this and that, why white beauty standards affect y'all more than us, and our nation is burning down all around us... A nation reflects the state of mind of its women - or she who rocks the cradle...

Fact is, I think Black Women have the capacity for dynamic leadership, as well-spoken, as outspoken, as charismatic and full of personality as many sisters are, they should be filling the seats held by some of our milquetoast brothers... Problem is, sisters are concerned with sista stuff, and not the overall health of the Black community, IMHO... Sisters are concerned with pleasing the preacher and other member of the congregation with how well they can cook that fried chicken, and how fly they can look with their choir robes on sunday...(smile!)

Obviously, this does not apply to all Black women, but it is symbolic of where a lot of sisters heads are at... We know that the Black Church is now, and has been by far for centuries, Black America's strongest institution... It exists because Black Women will never let it die... They are it's heart, soul, and backbone... It makes preachers rich off the backs of strong Black Women, who never get to share in it's riches unless they're the preacher's wife...

I am wondering why African women allow this kind of thing to go on??? I am wondering why sisters have so much to say about the finances to the man in their house, but not the well-dressed cat who preaches on sunday??? What does HE owe to the community he is taking so much from??? Uh, huh, I've heard it said that not enough of us brothers attend church these days... Well, that is one of the reasons, I assure you(smile!)

Here in my community, I have counted more than 100 churches along a 2-mile strip... Some are old-style store-fronts, and some are major and minor brick structures, and all have different names, and no doubt, different sized congregations... It makes me wonder why cats go into preaching if it aint the job they couldn't get pumping gas... That's another story, however...

I just wanna know when sisters are gonna step up to the plate, and take their place of world and community leadership, and stop sloughing that responsibility off on brothers(smile!) I think that you all engage, sometimes, in the game of "a good offense is your best defense." You criticize us so much, and so often, that your own faults tend to get overlooked... Women in leadership is nothing new to Africans, not even these brainwashed Africans in America... That means that Sisters have to stop complaining about these old piece-a-Black men, and doing what they've got to do... Ida B. didn't complain, she just did what a strong, dynamic Black woman does, and stepped up her assault on the system... Sistas, I guess they don't make Black Women like dat no mo', huh?(smile!)

Peace!
Zeke

Beautiful sister, the WHOLE of my post is up above, and I stand by my motivation in posting it... I asked you, and the other sisters at this board when you would take the kinds of dynamic leadership roles you are eminently qualified for, which means I believe in your capacity to lead, and do it well... Like most of the sisters on this thread you saw only the part that hurt your feelings, and I apologized for that... I do, however, believe that I am owed the courtesy of a thorough examination of what I said, which mean everything I said - not just that which hurt your feelings...

My desire was to get sisters to understand that they are the backbone of the most powerful institutions in our communities, institutions which, while capable of making wholesale changes in the economic infrastructure of those communities, are underperfoming, because preachers don't have their heads in the right place, and no one is demanding that they get their heads in the right place...

I understand that women cook, clean, sew, and raise families, because I had a mother, and a wife who did same... I understand that the stresses on Black Women are greater than any other females in this society, and they do their level best under some terrible circumstances... But, tell me something, does that mean you are above criticism??? That you can do no wrong??? Do I have the right to constructively criticize you??? I wont get into whether brothers criticize sisters more vehemently than sisters criticize brothers... That's a speculative and subjective argument at best, and at it's worse, it just feeds the flames of discord among us...

Sister, again, I apologized for appearing to make light of the issue of beauty standards... I understand that it is important to you, as well as myself, and other African men... Believe it or not, we too are subjected to certain kinds of standards of beauty, but it must be understood that men have no choice but to deal with what God has given us, and make the best of it... Yes, we could sit around and discuss it, but at the end of the day, we will not likely fine one sister who is the least concerned about it... If that sounds like another criticism, so be it, because I have heard my share of sisters talking about how they cannot stand a "whining man", a man who might under more empathetic terms be said to be "discussing" important issues to him...

So, as you said, taking responsibility for our communities is a two-way street, and so is criticism a two-way street... If you noticed, I did criticize African men in that very same post, and not one on this thread took me to task for that... If anything, the brothers on this thread took umbrage at my criticism of Black Women... I aint mad at nary a one of 'em, either - for reasons, perhaps, only men can understand...

This I will say, sister, that if we cannot constructively criticize one another, both Black Women and Black Men, then we are doomed as a people... A people who live under conditions as we African people live under in this world, who will not take inventory of themselves and their situation, and make plans to change what is dysfunctioning, are doomed - period...

Peace!
Isaiah

Sekhemu

08-15-2004, 04:07 AM

I think a resting place is in order for us tired ones :deal:

Destee

03-21-2005, 02:30 PM

I was just reading over this thread again ... gosh ... it was so much fun! :)

Sister Queenie ... you got me laff'n and you aint even here right now! :lol:

Brother Isaiah ... i admire all that is in you ... please never change! :love:

:heart:

Destee

Ralfa'il

03-26-2005, 01:16 PM

Isaiah

I asked you, and the other sisters at this board when you would take the kinds of dynamic leadership roles you are eminently qualified for, which means I believe in your capacity to lead, and do it well...
Are you serious?

Why would you as a man want a black woman or any other type of woman leading you?

God didn't create women to lead us but to comfort us.

As black men, we need to stop masculinizing our women.

Duchesse

04-15-2005, 01:07 PM

Isaiah

Are you serious?

Why would you as a man want a black woman or any other type of woman leading you?

God didn't create women to lead us but to comfort us.

As black men, we need to stop masculinizing our women.

This is quite a thread, Ralfa'il said the first thing that came to my mind after reading numerous post. Will the black man be lead by his woman? The answer is NO. There may have been a time when women were given certain positions of power within the African society but the last word went to a man. I say it always will. Brother mentioned God, I agree, Genesis 3:16 covers more than childbirth. According to God if we go that route he's in charge. The truth of the matter is, that he was also instructed to rule with others in mind. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Also male and female created he them." I'm not a religious person but all of this has been true since the beginning of time. Men have always ruled but not with the instructions given in mind.

Can he rule with self control? Cedric was the first man to verbalize that brothers hurt their families all the time. Statistics confirm this also. He's starting new families. Without regard to the one he left. Some run in shame because of their conduct.

If you start a family it is your responsibility to stick it out. Grow up, you're an adult. Just because it didn't turn into a fairytale doesn't give you the right to run.

Also, too, Polygamy is alive and well and this is a major deterrent to family life. He has to grow up. Every woman who offers herself to you does not have to be taken up on the offer. Brothers are running around like kids in a candy store. And, yes, many sisters are throwing themselves like pearls to swine. Brothers must live with their families in mind. Not just themselves.

Read Black Enterprise magazine sometimes to see what happens to families who have a stand up guy instead of one spending thousands of dollars every year trying to play mack daddy and support a bachelor's life behind his wife's back.

It's time for brothers to face up to what it is they do to keep the bullcrap going. It's not all the woman's fault. And it's not all the whiteman's fault either.

panafrica

04-15-2005, 01:21 PM

If you start a family it is your responsibility to stick it out. Grow up, you're an adult. Just because it didn't turn into a fairytale doesn't give you the right to run.

Also, too, Polygamy is alive and well and this is a major deterrent to family life. He has to grow up. Every woman who offers herself to you does not have to be taken up on the offer. Brothers are running around like kids in a candy store. And, yes, many sisters are throwing themselves like pearls to swine. Brothers must live with their families in mind. Not just themselves.

Read Black Enterprise magazine sometimes to see what happens to families who have a stand up guy instead of one spending thousands of dollars every year trying to play mack daddy and support a bachelor's life behind his wife's back.

It's time for brothers to face up to what it is they do to keep the bullcrap going. It's not all the woman's fault. And it's not all the whiteman's fault either.

With the exception of the comment about polygamy (polygamy isn't what these men you described are doing), I agree with what you have stated Duchesse.

Duchesse

04-18-2005, 10:00 AM

With the exception of the comment about polygamy (polygamy isn't what these men you described are doing), I agree with what you have stated Duchesse.

I didn't mean polygamy literally. I was just referring to brothers having several women. :kiss1:

Isaiah

04-18-2005, 12:58 PM

Isaiah

Are you serious?

Why would you as a man want a black woman or any other type of woman leading you?

God didn't create women to lead us but to comfort us.

As black men, we need to stop masculinizing our women.

Brother Ralfa'il, I have, and you have, had African women leading you all of your life, no??? You were reared by your father only??? Well, that was not my experience, so I don't have any kind of issues arising out of macho considerations about African Female leadership... If Hatshepsut could lead, and Nzingha could lead, and Candace could lead, the Benedita Da Silva, Cynthia McKinney, Shirley Chisholm, and Maxine Waters can lead...

Considering all things, this is really a silly argument based on a macho premise... I don't think with my Johnson... I think with my brain, and my brain tells me that Black Female Leadership has always existed in our communities, and forever will... The problem is the Black Male's desire to make the sister into a devil, and tell her to get thee behind me... Sister's have, to a great degree, obeyed such nonsense, and I would like to see what would happen if the stopped obeying these unwritten man-made laws, and FULLY unleashed their self-asserted power on our communities and institutions... Brothers have done a TERRIBLE job of leading, you WOULD agree, no???

Time for African Women to step to the plate, thrust all doubts and inhibitions about their ability to lead aside... Brothers, either, need to SHOW and PROVE they are worthy to tell the sista to chill, or chill themselves, and follow the leader who can best lead them... We in hell now because of the dumb and wrongheaded macho machinations of White men, and we, as Black Men, have yet to be able to do much about it... The real question is, Can African Women do a better job of leading African people than African men have done??? As Graham Central Station would say, Can Ya Handle it???

Peace!
Isaiah

panafrica

04-18-2005, 01:12 PM

I didn't mean polygamy literally. I was just referring to brothers having several women. :kiss1:

Understood. I made that correction because I've seen that comparison made before, and it isn't accurate to equate cheating (unfaithfulness) to polygamy. That being said, everything else you mentioned was on point!

Ralfa'il

04-18-2005, 03:45 PM

Dutchess

This is quite a thread, Ralfa'il said the first thing that came to my mind after reading numerous post. Will the black man be lead by his woman? The answer is NO. There may have been a time when women were given certain positions of power within the African society but the last word went to a man. I say it always will. Brother mentioned God, I agree, Genesis 3:16 covers more than childbirth. According to God if we go that route he's in charge. The truth of the matter is, that he was also instructed to rule with others in mind. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Also male and female created he them." I'm not a religious person but all of this has been true since the beginning of time. Men have always ruled but not with the instructions given in mind.

I agree and have absolutely NO PROBLEM with accepting and honoring the input of our sistaz in decision making and leadership.

I just feel that when it comes to important security matters that the ultimate decision should be left up to a QUALIFIED (not just any) man to make.

Also, too, Polygamy is alive and well and this is a major deterrent to family life. He has to grow up. Every woman who offers herself to you does not have to be taken up on the offer. Brothers are running around like kids in a candy store. And, yes, many sisters are throwing themselves like pearls to swine. Brothers must live with their families in mind. Not just themselves.
This is because like I've constantly said....when it comes to women and sex...black men in America are spoiled.

Most of us can get women and sex so easily that we don't know the value of women and how important they are in maintaining peace and comfort.

Most bruthaz in America can get a woman whenever he pleases at a bar or club.

In many Eastern cultures were most women are married and "taken" and sexual laws are strict, WARS are fought over women and they are treated like valuable property because an available woman is hard to come by for the average man.

Ike

Peace beloved black man...

Brother Ralfa'il, I have, and you have, had African women leading you all of your life, no??? You were reared by your father only??? Well, that was not my experience, so I don't have any kind of issues arising out of macho considerations about African Female leadership... If Hatshepsut could lead, and Nzingha could lead, and Candace could lead, the Benedita Da Silva, Cynthia McKinney, Shirley Chisholm, and Maxine Waters can lead...

I agree that women can have a role in leadership and decision making but the ULTIMATE position should be the responsibility of a man.

No matter how strong our women are...no nation on this planet will respect us if we aren't in control of our own families and communities.

Considering all things, this is really a silly argument based on a macho premise... I don't think with my Johnson... I think with my brain, and my brain tells me that Black Female Leadership has always existed in our communities, and forever will... The problem is the Black Male's desire to make the sister into a devil, and tell her to get thee behind me... Sister's have, to a great degree, obeyed such nonsense, and I would like to see what would happen if the stopped obeying these unwritten man-made laws, and FULLY unleashed their self-asserted power on our communities and institutions... Brothers have done a TERRIBLE job of leading, you WOULD agree, no???

I agree that black female has always existed in the AfroAmerican community because they had no choice...somebody had to make the decisions and keep the family together after we were killed or sold.

But this isn't natural nor is it ideal for the woman to be the ultimate leaders for practical purposes.

Time for African Women to step to the plate, thrust all doubts and inhibitions about their ability to lead aside... Brothers, either, need to SHOW and PROVE they are worthy to tell the sista to chill, or chill themselves, and follow the leader who can best lead them... We in hell now because of the dumb and wrongheaded macho machinations of White men, and we, as Black Men, have yet to be able to do much about it... The real question is, Can African Women do a better job of leading African people than African men have done??? As Graham Central Station would say, Can Ya Handle it???

African women can lead if they're forced to..but they can't do a better job than us.

The only thing that will happen if you have women leading your community is that a stronger community led by STRONG MEN will come in...take over...and make slaves out of both of us.

Like I said, it's not natural for our women to lead and it's actually hard and too stressful for them to take up this mantle...they hate it themselves and wish they didn't have to.
They actually resent men for putting them in that position.

Besides that...it's just poor judgement period to put our women out front in contact with our enemy.

When the enemy came to take advantage of our people...they first came as MEN and left their women at home just incase they ran into trouble.

Even today, white men have full access to black and latino women at school and work while the white woman is tucked away at home out of reach.

He keeps it to where he's the only one who has access to her and the only way to get to her is through him.

So again, I agree that women should have a role IN the leadership and decision making, but in no way should they make the ultimate decision in legal and security matters.

I enjoy talking to you brutha...you give me a lot on my plate to think about.

Sekhemu

04-18-2005, 05:42 PM

Brother Ralfa'il, I have, and you have, had African women leading you all of your life, no??? You were reared by your father only??? Well, that was not my experience, so I don't have any kind of issues arising out of macho considerations about African Female leadership... If Hatshepsut could lead, and Nzingha could lead, and Candace could lead, the Benedita Da Silva, Cynthia McKinney, Shirley Chisholm, and Maxine Waters can lead...

Considering all things, this is really a silly argument based on a macho premise... I don't think with my Johnson... I think with my brain, and my brain tells me that Black Female Leadership has always existed in our communities, and forever will... The problem is the Black Male's desire to make the sister into a devil, and tell her to get thee behind me... Sister's have, to a great degree, obeyed such nonsense, and I would like to see what would happen if the stopped obeying these unwritten man-made laws, and FULLY unleashed their self-asserted power on our communities and institutions... Brothers have done a TERRIBLE job of leading, you WOULD agree, no???

Time for African Women to step to the plate, thrust all doubts and inhibitions about their ability to lead aside... Brothers, either, need to SHOW and PROVE they are worthy to tell the sista to chill, or chill themselves, and follow the leader who can best lead them... We in hell now because of the dumb and wrongheaded macho machinations of White men, and we, as Black Men, have yet to be able to do much about it... The real question is, Can African Women do a better job of leading African people than African men have done??? As Graham Central Station would say, Can Ya Handle it???

Peace!
Isaiah

This may be slightly off the topic brotha, but in light of all the facts you've presented here, is it any wonder the black woman and women in general have been marginalized when it comes to becoming, Preachers, Imams or Rabbis.

Duchesse

04-19-2005, 10:00 AM

[QUOTE=Ralfa'il]

[
This is because like I've constantly said....when it comes to women and sex...black men in America are spoiled.

Most of us can get women and sex so easily that we don't know the value of women and how important they are in maintaining peace and comfort.

Most bruthaz in America can get a woman whenever he pleases at a bar or club.

[B]I agree that women can have a role in leadership and decision making but the ULTIMATE position should be the responsibility of a man.

No matter how strong our women are...no nation on this planet will respect us if we aren't in control of our own families and communities.

Duchesse said: more important than control over others is SELF-CONTROL ( the ability to do what you should do, when you should do it, whether you want to or not.

As you stated the black man is extremely spoiled and as such has a very hard time accepting responsibility. Part of this is because women don't demand it. Most are scared to verbalize it, they don't want to hurt his feelings. Many women think that coddling him like a child will help make him feel like a man. The black man is constantly given undeserved props so that he feels he is appreciated and loved by his woman but this doesn't help the situation. He will never do better if you tell him you're happy with a poor performance.

panafrica

04-19-2005, 10:10 AM

As you stated the black man is extremely spoiled and as such has a very hard time accepting responsibility. Part of this is because women don't demand it. Most are scared to verbalize it, they don't want to hurt his feelings. Many women think that coddling him like a child will help make him feel like a man. The black man is constantly given undeserved props so that he feels he is appreciated and loved by his woman but this doesn't help the situation. He will never do better if you tell him you're happy with a poor performance.

*sigh* You were doing so well Duchesse. I agreed with your earlier comments, but with these latest observations you've now gone from constructive criticism of "some" black men to making blanket statements, generalizations, and stereotyping all black men!

Duchesse

04-19-2005, 12:50 PM

*sigh* You were doing so well Duchesse. I agreed with your earlier comments, but with these latest observations you've now gone from constructive criticism of "some" black men to making blanket statements, generalizations, and stereotyping all black men!

I don't feel I'm making generalizations. Statistics speak to more than generalizations. AIDS, drug sales,addiction, alcoholism, the # of black men in jail, # of black men graduating from H.S and college, teenage pregnancy, fatherless children, men arrested for non payment of child support, men with two or three baby mamas, black on black crime, low test scores, low self esteem, gang violence, whew!, need I say more.

The condition of the race speaks to the number of men who understand their role and responsibilities.

panafrica

04-19-2005, 01:06 PM

panafrica

04-19-2005, 01:50 PM

I don't feel I'm making generalizations. Statistics speak to more than generalizations. AIDS, drug sales,addiction, alcoholism, the # of black men in jail, # of black men graduating from H.S and college, teenage pregnancy, fatherless children, men arrested for non payment of child support, men with two or three baby mamas, black on black crime, low test scores, low self esteem, gang violence, whew!, need I say more. The condition of the race speaks to the number of men who understand their role and responsibilities.

The danger of black men & women using stereotypes to degrade one another, is that almost every negative statistic compiled by “government” sources can be taken in multiple ways. Duchesse you listed AIDS as an example of ways in which black men are hurting the community. However using HIV statistics black women have the highest infection rates, not black men. Therefore a black man has a greater risk sleeping with a black woman, than vice versa. That is if statistics are to be taken at face value!

The percentages & numbers of black men in prison are often cited in the media, and by black women who wish to demonize black men. There have been few if any studies done comparing the percentages of alcohol abuse, drug usage, and gang involvement between black men and women. However statistical profiles of female prisons reveal that black women make up 75% of the inmates, which is actually a higher percentage of blacks in male institutions. Looking at these numbers, assertions of the black male’s criminal tendencies expands to include the black woman as well. In other words, black women & men both have a usually high rate of arrest and imprisonment, as shown by statistical reports. That is if statistics are to be taken at face value!

In another post I tackled the belief that an exceeding number of black women are graduating from college at higher rates than black men. According to the 1993 US census stats: 15% of black women (15 years or older) obtained a Bachelor’s Degree or higher. In comparison 13% of black men (15 years or older) obtained a Bachelor’s Degree or higher. I am a black man with a college degree (actually I have 2), and I saw plenty of brothers walking the campus halls. Although black women are graduating from college at a higher percentage rate than black men, the actual difference (2 points) is not great enough to cause alarm. That is if statistics are to be taken at face value!

There are black men with two or three baby mamas, this I can’t deny. However there are also black women with four or five baby daddies! In the end who looks worse? I have always promoted that men should support their children. Personally I take care of my child, actually I married their mother (before she got pregnant). How many black folk (men or women) can say this today? Not many, and there lies a large portion of the problem! Although I encourage men to support their children (irregardless of the circumstances), the reality is black women are just as responsible for the rate single parent homes in our community as black men are! How can anyone logically argue differently? Statistics can list how many children are born out of wedlock…they can not list the reasons why!

Do you need to say more? Yes Duchesse….you need to say a lot more, this is the most superficial exploration of the problems affecting the black man & black community that I have ever read!

Duchesse

04-19-2005, 01:51 PM

Okay there is another way to look at this: Since you feel that black men are spoiled, then they are being spoiled by their mothers (because the father isn’t in the home). Therefore it is safe to say that black women are incapable of raising healthy males, and as a result are the primary reason for the problems in our community. Because you are dealing in generalizations & using social statistics without properly analyzing them….this is a fair conclusion to make.

It's all her fault because he refuses to be an adult.

I feel that MANY black men are spoiled and yes they were spoiled by their mothers, and then the women in their lives continue to give undeserved props to men who hurt them and don't provide. Thus spoiling him further.To date he doesn't even know he's a failure. She's never told him. He's never had to take responsibility. Who can make him, but him.

Incapable? no, women were not meant to raise their children alone that's why we have such a huge mess amongst our children. It's hard to raise kids alone, we were not meant to, you need help. The father does provide something that the mother can't. That's real!

Most single parent children who turn out, that is suceed, it was due to hard work, alot of prayer, and the will of God with the circumstances she alone has to work up under most of the time.

As a MAN, the stronger vessel, he should know that. But what can she do? He's the stronger vessel, He's an adult, she can't make him stay. it's up to him, the stronger vessel, to see that he must stay until that child is grown, until the child can fly!!
By putting all the responsibility for raising the children on her by running off, and what can she do? you can't help but blame her for everything so yes, it is all her fault.If you want to make believe that he's not an adult

If the fathers don't stick around and see to it that his son knows how to be a man and that his daughter knows how to pick a husband, The person who raised the child( the mother) is responsible for the outcome. She can't make him stay. He has to WANT to raise his children.

You can't say that you are the man, the stronger vessel and expect the weaker vessel to be able to produce a good outcome without you.
It wasn't meant to be done alone, the sucesses you see are the sheer will of God.

panafrica

04-19-2005, 01:56 PM

It's all her fault because he refuses to be an adult.

I feel that MANY black men are spoiled and yes they were spoiled by their mothers, and then the women in their lives continue to give undeserved props to men who hurt them and don't provide. Thus spoiling him further.To date he doesn't even know he's a failure. She's never told him. He's never had to take responsibility. Who can make him, but him.

Incapable? no, women were not meant to raise their children alone that's why we have such a huge mess amongst our children. It's hard to raise kids alone, we were not meant to, you need help. The father does provide something that the mother can't. That's real!

Most single parent children who turn out, that is suceed, it was due to hard work, alot of prayer, and the will of God with the circumstances she alone has to work up under most of the time.

As a MAN, the stronger vessel, he should know that. But what can she do? He's the stronger vessel, He's an adult, she can't make him stay. it's up to him, the stronger vessel, to see that he must stay until that child is grown, until the child can fly!!
By putting all the responsibility for raising the children on her by running off, and what can she do? you can't help but blame her for everything so yes, it is all her fault.If you want to make believe that he's not an adult

If the fathers don't stick around and see to it that his son knows how to be a man and that his daughter knows how to pick a husband, The person who raised the child( the mother) is responsible for the outcome. She can't make him stay. He has to WANT to raise his children.

You can't say that you are the man, the stronger vessel and expect the weaker vessel to be able to produce a good outcome without you.
It wasn't meant to be done alone, the sucesses you see are the sheer will of God.

My answer to you is quite simple Duchesse. In addition to telling black men to act in a more responsible way. You also need to tell black women that they need to keep their legs closed until they find a man who wants to marry them (and actually does so). This is the only way to ensure more black men actually do act like fathers to their children. Is this also part of your message? Somehow I doubt it!

P.S. Make sure you read my above message to you as well!

Duchesse

04-19-2005, 02:15 PM

My answer to you is quite simple Duchesse. In addition to telling black men to act in a more responsible way. You also need to tell black women that they need to keep their legs closed until they find a man who wants to marry them (and actually does so). This is the only way to ensure more black men actually do act like fathers to their children. Is this also part of your message? Somehow I doubt it!

P.S. Make sure you read my above message to you as well!

In a previous post I said that women were throwing themselves at men like pearls to swine. They're desperate for someone to love and it shows. Their fathers should have taught them better.

I did note your previous post, I'm a health care professional. Women don't infect men at the rate that men infect women just by the virtue of her anatomy.

We could analyze statistics all day. The bottom line is the stronger vessel, the ruler, as stated by God, must understand that if the head is not right nothing will be right. It seems he wants the weaker vessel to "get in line" first, that's impossible he's leading.

panafrica

04-19-2005, 02:19 PM

In a previous post I said that women were throwing themselves at men like pearls to swine. They're desperate for someone to love and it shows. Their fathers should have taught them better.

I did note your previous post, I'm a health care professional. Women don't infect men at the rate that men infect women just by the virtue of her anatomy.

We could analyze statistics all day. The bottom line is the stronger vessel, the ruler, as stated by God, must understand that if the head is not right nothing will be right. It seems he wants the weaker vessel to "get in line" first, that's impossible he's leading.

That women don't infect men at the rate men infect women is debatable! However, I guess you didn't want address my statements about your observations on prison & education? That is fine, because my real bottom line is that responsibility is a two way street! In addition, scapegoating, fingerpointing, and blame shifting does nothing to solve problems

Destee

04-19-2005, 03:01 PM

God didn't create women to lead us but to comfort us.

Did She tell you this personally?

:heart:

Destee

panafrica

04-19-2005, 03:06 PM

The black men & women (really all men & women) were created to work together: Both make up the black community! The community will rise or fall based upon our cooperation (or lack thereof). Our community will never prosper as long as we view each other with suspicious & disgust...so long as we blame each other for our misfortunes!

Sekhemu

04-19-2005, 03:56 PM

In a previous post I said that women were throwing themselves at men like pearls to swine. They're desperate for someone to love and it shows. Their fathers should have taught them better.

I did note your previous post, I'm a health care professional. Women don't infect men at the rate that men infect women just by the virtue of her anatomy.

We could analyze statistics all day. The bottom line is the stronger vessel, the ruler, as stated by God, must understand that if the head is not right nothing will be right. It seems he wants the weaker vessel to "get in line" first, that's impossible he's leading.

When you say, "as stated by God", are you talking about the christian notion of God?

Isaiah

04-19-2005, 05:25 PM

This may be slightly off the topic brotha, but in light of all the facts you've presented here, is it any wonder the black woman and women in general have been marginalized when it comes to becoming, Preachers, Imams or Rabbis.

Brother Sekhemu, that's why I don't inject The Creator into this, or any kind of moral thesis created by man... I am merely looking at what African male leadership has been able to achieve while denying African women(through moral thesis, no less) their rightful place of leadership...

But, yes, Brother, you're correct... In these powerful religious institutions - which would have major trouble staying afloat without women - the sexism is stronger than dirt, and the machoism is stronger than even that... These weak, insecure, and ineffectual little boys cannot feel strong unless women are submissive, and I think women understand that even better than I do... If I know anything about ladies, it is that they don't tell us an eighth of what they know and are feeling, and there's nothing I've said here that most of them don't understand when they're not fronting, trying to pretend NOT to understand what I'm saying...(smile!)

Like I said, this is not about African Women TAKIN" OVAH, as has been suggested, it is about African women asserting their rightful claim to leadership... If sister can organize her home, which is government at it's most basic level, then she can(and does!)organize men, women, and children, and direct them all in the proper way to go...

Sekhemu, I am practical, brother... I see an institution which is full of potential, full of the earned wealth of African women ... I want sisters to be angry enough to demand from the damned preacher what she would demand from a man staying in her own home, and not pulling his own weight, dig???(smile!)

Peace!
isaiah

Destee

04-19-2005, 06:18 PM

I want sisters to be angry enough to demand from the damned preacher what she would demand from a man staying in her own home, and not pulling his own weight, dig???(smile!)

:lol: ... you try'n ta git da preacha kilt ! :eeek:

:heart:

Destee

Duchesse

04-19-2005, 06:33 PM

When you say, "as stated by God", are you talking about the christian notion of God?

I am not here to define God, or force my opinion of who he is on anyone else.
I only mentioned God because of a previous post. The history of the world speaks to leadership by men.

@Panafrica

Your post regarding the prison system and education, I don't disagree with. It's just that like I said we could argue statistics all day.

We still have a huge problem, the race is in a mess and if it were in the power of the woman her husband would be home after work with her and those children. As we know it's not up to her, he goes where he wants to go, when he wants to go, and with whom he wants to go, even if he has to lie about it. Even if she decides to work, come home, cook, clean, wash, scrub, sew, help the children with their homework and anything else considered "women's work, which many women have done, sometimes for years, how do you propose that she make him stay home and out of other womens beds? :insane:

Sekhemu

04-19-2005, 07:15 PM

I am not here to define God, or force my opinion of who he is on anyone else.
I only mentioned God because of a previous post. The history of the world speaks to leadership by men.

@Panafrica

Your post regarding the prison system and education, I don't disagree with. It's just that like I said we could argue statistics all day.

We still have a huge problem, the race is in a mess and if it were in the power of the woman her husband would be home after work with her and those children. As we know it's not up to her, he goes where he wants to go, when he wants to go, and with whom he wants to go, even if he has to lie about it. Even if she decides to work, come home, cook, clean, wash, scrub, sew, help the children with their homework and anything else considered "women's work, which many women have done, sometimes for years, how do you propose that she make him stay home and out of other womens beds? :insane:

By calling God He, you are in affect telling me that your overstanding of the creator has no female counterpart, and as such it would be reasonable to conclude that perhaps your notion of the man being the stronger vessel, has distorted your perception that the black woman is equal and as strong the black man.

Yes the HISstory of the world speaks for itself. Written by men. But before there HISstory, the black woman's stature was venerated as the Goddess of creation and the destiny of the black man was intrinsicly woven into the symbiotic relationship with the the woman/Goddess, that is before the advent of western religion

panafrica

04-19-2005, 08:03 PM

PanafricaYour post regarding the prison system and education, I don't disagree with. It's just that like I said we could argue statistics all day.

I agree; however, this being true...why did you bring up statistics (black man affected with AIDS, Child Support, Prison population, etc) to justify your earlier statements?

We still have a huge problem, the race is in a mess and if it were in the power of the woman her husband would be home after work with her and those children. As we know it's not up to her, he goes where he wants to go, when he wants to go, and with whom he wants to go, even if he has to lie about it. Even if she decides to work, come home, cook, clean, wash, scrub, sew, help the children with their homework and anything else considered "women's work, which many women have done, sometimes for years, how do you propose that she make him stay home and out of other womens beds?

I also agree we have a huge problem in our community; however, I strongly disagree that it is the sole responsibility of the black man to improve family relationships. Black men need to act more responsible. Although it can't be ignored that black women need to choose more responsible men! With few exceptions women choose men, not vice versa. Too many women in the African American community value flashy, playa types, over decent hard work brothers. This is not to say all African women want this, but a great number do. Indeed many brothers who aren't "thugs" are viewed as soft by African American women! I have said repeatedly on this website that men behave in ways that attract women. To behave differently would go against a man's nature. I guarantee that if black women as a whole rejected the "thug" for an educated legally employed black man...every thug would be going back to school overnight! I also guarantee that if black women waited to have children until marriage, the amount of absentee fathers would dramatically decrease. This is not to say that every husband is a good father. However marriage shows a level of commitment towards a person (which is lacking in the many relationships in our community). As far as your concerns about black husbands being faithful: How is that different from any other race of men? The concerns you listed go through the minds of white women, Latinas, Asian women, and Arabic women. If a man is going to cheat, he will do so regardless. However the fear of this happening, is not a logical reason to avoid the type of relationship best able to provide our children with the healthiest environment possible for their upbringing!

Isaiah

04-20-2005, 11:14 AM

I am not here to define God, or force my opinion of who he is on anyone else.
I only mentioned God because of a previous post. The history of the world speaks to leadership by men.

@Panafrica

Your post regarding the prison system and education, I don't disagree with. It's just that like I said we could argue statistics all day.

We still have a huge problem, the race is in a mess and if it were in the power of the woman her husband would be home after work with her and those children. As we know it's not up to her, he goes where he wants to go, when he wants to go, and with whom he wants to go, even if he has to lie about it. Even if she decides to work, come home, cook, clean, wash, scrub, sew, help the children with their homework and anything else considered "women's work, which many women have done, sometimes for years, how do you propose that she make him stay home and out of other womens beds? :insane:

She can't sister... Brothers have to police themselves - as do sisters... You know, the ones who are sleeping with these brothers, and know damned well they are married... African Americans are in tough shape because we decided that those old world values of our parents were old and useless... We are like children who've been playing with lit matches around gasoline for the past 40 years...

Destee, yeah, some of these preachers I'd love to see sisters "go on a roll" on these fools... Embarrass 'em so bad they don't talk about nothing but building new school houses and banks for the next 100 years!(smile!)

...Uh, huh, I say no mo' fried chicken fuh me, yeahhhhh, say yeahhhhh - I say yeahhhhh, no mo', uh, huh, collard greens, cornbread and caddy lacks fuh me! Gonna build me a store in this sto' front, I say yeah
- I say yeah... yeah... yeah, hey!

Peace!
Isaiah

panafrica

04-22-2005, 06:22 AM

Brothers have to police themselves - as do sisters... You know, the ones who are sleeping with these brothers, and know damned well they are married... African Americans are in tough shape because we decided that those old world values of our parents were old and useless... We are like children who've been playing with lit matches around gasoline for the past 40 years...

Astute observation!

Duchesse

05-01-2005, 03:38 AM

panafrica

05-01-2005, 08:22 AM

I see nothing has changed. The black man is still acting like a :baby: and shirking his responsibilities. I said it before and I'll say it again. If it wasn't for the black woman the race would be nowhere.

Everytime the black man is brought to the table to discuss his role he starts finger pointing and blaming the black woman. But when he's given praise he won't share that with her. What's up with that. You can't look at yourselves independently unless your're being praised?

I say it's time for brothers to step up to the plate. Take some responsibility. Most sisters who become involved with married and attached men were lied to from the start. Also HE KNOWS that he is married and has a responsibility to his wife and family. As for the sisters throwing themselves like pearls to swine, he's an adult he doesn't have to take her up on the offer.

Brothers can find a million excuses for everything he does. Everything is someone else's fault.

When a sister is victimized no one has any problem seeing it as her fault. She should have left. Why did she stay? Why did she allow it? She did it to herself. She should have picked a better man. But as for the black man, he has a scapegoat for everything that he feels is wrong in the society.
The white man did this, the black woman did that, it's never his(the black man) fault. What's up with that, you're not a kid. You want to be handled with kid gloves, you want everyone to know what and how to say it to you . What about everyone else? Women are not handled with kid gloves, if she doesn't take care of her responsibilities she has to wear a scarlet letter. No good b***h, whore, s**t, unfit mother, etc. As for the white man, he's the devil, evil, he's racial profiling, he's holding you down, he's throwing you in jail without cause, he's selling you drugs and guns against your will, he's making you shoot each other, he's causing black on black crime, he's causing you to leave your family, screw around on your woman, beat her up, piss in your hallways, NONE OF IT IS YOUR FAULT, WHAT'S UP WITH THAT??????

"If it wasn't for the black woman, the race would be nowhere". According to many people the race isn't nowhere anyway! Duchesse you are a broken record. You appear every once in a blue moon, make some charges & shots against the black man...disappear when someone has a decent counter argument...then reappear to make the same charges. This website is dedicated to bringing our people together (the black man & woman), not trying to seperate them. I think most members on this site have no problems addressing issues in our community, up to and including what "many" black men aren't doing. However no one sees value in ranting about problems without talking about solutions. Your coming on Destee and talking about the failure of the black man to support his family is not motivating anyone on this site, as most men here are either: Married...married to black women I might add, who are providing for their children every day (myself included in this group); single parents who are involved with their children's daily lives (like brother Kente417Mojo); or single men with no children. I would address your latest claims that the black man is responsible for all infidelity, crime, broken families, and poverty in the black community. However, I know from prior experience that you wouldn't listen. Instead let me refer you to my list of alternative black websites:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?p=320607#post320607

Destee

05-01-2005, 02:58 PM

By calling God He, you are in affect telling me that your overstanding of the creator has no female counterpart, and as such it would be reasonable to conclude that perhaps your notion of the man being the stronger vessel, has distorted your perception that the black woman is equal and as strong the black man.

Brother Sekhemu ... regarding your conclusion ... i'd like to add the following ... that perhaps the person is in the process of growing in their understanding of our Creator ... and still alternating from what they've always known, to what they are learning now.

You will find lots of posts referencing God, by me, that say He.

I think the only safe assumption, is that it was referenced that way, that time.

:heart:

Destee

Destee

05-01-2005, 03:10 PM

Sister Duchesse ... Hello and Welcome ... :wave:

Sister ... i see you have met our Brothers in the Family !!! :eeek:

Don't let 'em get your nerves worked up in a tizzy ... they're really very loving! :love:

I agree with much of what you've said, and recognize the place you are at, your thoughts i mean. I think all of us go through that, we love each other so. I'd like to encourage you by sharing, that there is a place beyond this place, where we stop trying to lay blame, and begin the process of healing.

I'm happy to see us all headed that way! :wink:

Looking forward to reading more of your wisdom.

Please make yourself at home, because you are.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

Duchesse

05-01-2005, 04:41 PM

@ Duchesse: You appear every once in a blue moon, make some charges & shots against the black man...disappear when someone has a decent counter argument...then reappear to make the same charges.

First off I appear when I please, thank you. And so far I have'nt seen anyone come up with a decent counter argument because there is no excuse for allowing this Willie Lynch mentality to continue amongst us. This is the fault of the Black race. ALL BRAINWASHING CAN BE REVERSED, GET TO IT. I DON'T BELIEVE IN BABYING ADULTS. IT'S HIGH TIME, GET TO IT, **** OR GET OFF THE POT. WE DO TOO MUCH TALKING, PACIFYING, BACK RUBBING, SOOTHING, AND NOTHING GETS DONE. STOP THE LYING, THE EXCUSES, BLAMING, AND EXPOSE THIS MENTALITY.

This website is dedicated to bringing our people together (the black man & woman), not trying to seperate them.

Duchesse: So how is it working? Are we together or just talking about getting together and then when one of us has some luck, the others try to tear him/her down. player hating.

I think most members on this site have no problems addressing issues in our community, up to and including what "many" black men aren't doing.

Duchesse:Well then let's address Willie Lynch Syndrome and the symptoms thereof. Let's see if we really want to address how we tear each other down and work on it.

However no one sees value in ranting about problems without talking about solutions. Your coming on Destee and talking about the failure of the black man to support his family is not motivating anyone on this site, as most men here are either: Married...married to black women I might add, who are providing for their children every day (myself included in this group); single parents who are involved with their children's daily lives (like brother Kente417Mojo); or single men with no children. I would address your latest claims that the black man is responsible for all infidelity, crime, broken families, and poverty in the black community. However, I know from prior experience that you wouldn't listen. Instead let me refer you to my list of alternative black websites:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?p=320607#post320607

Duchesse: You've already decided what I'm going to do? Tell me something good and I'll listen. Excuses won't get it, I've heard them all.

Duchesse: You can't speak for the brothers on this site. Many of them thru the threads have advocated cheating, polygamy, have several baby mommas, some are not taking care of their children and most won't admit it. Sisters are on here all the time crying about the pain.THAT'S REAL brother. I don't know where you live brother but look around you, and take off the rose colored glasses. There's alot of crap going on and alot of lies being told about it. Brothers are not honest about cheating or any of the other crap that destroys our communities and their families. I'm just not willing to MAKE BELIEVE that's it's all someone else's fault and pacify him about anymore and most brothers can't stand that.

panafrica

05-01-2005, 04:46 PM

You can't speak for the brothers on this site. Many of them thru the threads have advocated cheating, polygamy, have several baby mommas, some are not taking care of their children and most won't admit it. Sisters are on here all the time crying about the pain.THAT'S REAL brother. I don't know where you live brother but look around you, and take off the rose colored glasses. There's alot of crap going on and alot of lies being told about it. Brothers are not honest about cheating or any of the other crap that destroys our communities and their families. I'm just not willing to MAKE BELIEVE that's it's all someone else's fault and pacify him about anymore and most brothers can't stand that.

Duchesse:

On behalf of every black man in the world...all who ever lived...all who will ever be born. I apologize to you, for your pain! Does that make you feel better?

Sekhemu

05-02-2005, 09:15 AM

I see nothing has changed. The black man is still acting like a :baby: and shirking his responsibilities. I said it before and I'll say it again. If it wasn't for the black woman the race would be nowhere.

Everytime the black man is brought to the table to discuss his role he starts finger pointing and blaming the black woman. But when he's given praise he won't share that with her. What's up with that. You can't look at yourselves independently unless your're being praised?

I say it's time for brothers to step up to the plate. Take some responsibility. Most sisters who become involved with married and attached men were lied to from the start. Also HE KNOWS that he is married and has a responsibility to his wife and family. As for the sisters throwing themselves like pearls to swine, he's an adult he doesn't have to take her up on the offer.

Brothers can find a million excuses for everything he does. Everything is someone else's fault.

When a sister is victimized no one has any problem seeing it as her fault. She should have left. Why did she stay? Why did she allow it? She did it to herself. She should have picked a better man. But as for the black man, he has a scapegoat for everything that he feels is wrong in the society.
The white man did this, the black woman did that, it's never his(the black man) fault.
What's up with that, you're not a kid. You want to be handled with kid gloves, you want everyone to know what and how to say it to you . What about everyone else? Women are not handled with kid gloves, if she doesn't take care of her responsibilities she has to wear a scarlet letter. No good b***h, whore, s**t, unfit mother, etc. As for the white man, he's the devil, evil, he's racial profiling, he's holding you down, he's throwing you in jail without cause, he's selling you drugs and guns against your will, he's making you shoot each other, he's causing black on black crime, he's causing you to leave your family, screw around on your woman, beat her up, piss in your hallways, NONE OF IT IS YOUR FAULT, WHAT'S UP WITH THAT??????

You mix in facts with blanket generalizations. Although you make some valid points about men, those points also apply to women, because for every married man that lies to a single woman, there are single women that seek out weak-minded men for sex with no strings attached or the goal of trying to steal some other woman's man away.

There is enough blame to go around for both men and women, yet you've painted a picture that makes black women out to be the victim of the irresponsible black man. This amounts to nothing more to venting and whining. Very few if any of the black men you talk about, are not on this website, so why do you keep talking this rhetoric?

Btw, you could have no black woman without a black man, so give us a break about the race would be nowhere without the black woman.

SAMURAI36

05-02-2005, 11:28 AM

Sounds like someone got hurt by a brother recently...... :rolleyes:

I see nothing has changed. The black man is still acting like a :baby: and shirking his responsibilities. I said it before and I'll say it again. If it wasn't for the black woman the race would be nowhere.

I don't see Black women saving our race, anymore than the brothers are......

Consumer reports states that Black women in America are the largest consumer group, but they consume nothing of susbstance: cars, clothes, jewelry and hair products.

Where is the real estate and other valuable property that we should be acquiring?

Most TV shows (video, sitcoms, etc) and movies depict black women with their @$$es hanging out, jiggling and dancing and neck-twisting and rump-shaking......Are you saving the race by exposing your bodies to the world?

Everytime the black man is brought to the table to discuss his role he starts finger pointing and blaming the black woman. But when he's given praise he won't share that with her. What's up with that. You can't look at yourselves independently unless your're being praised?

Do you honestly believe that this does not apply to many black women as well? How many Black women blame themselves for their poor relationships and financial situations?

I haven't heard you make an introspective statement since your time here (welcome to DESTEE, by the way).

We are all to blame for our problems, both individually and collectively. "You're not a kid", like you stated about us.

I say it's time for brothers to step up to the plate. Take some responsibility. Most sisters who become involved with married and attached men were lied to from the start. Also HE KNOWS that he is married and has a responsibility to his wife and family. As for the sisters throwing themselves like pearls to swine, he's an adult he doesn't have to take her up on the offer.

Wow, listen to this refusal to accept responsibility.......:rolleyes:

There are far too many men to let women know what their situation is from the very beginning.....And even if they are only given a vague understanding (shame on the brothas that do this), Women should still be smart enough to see what's going on (whatever happened to Women's Intuition? :confused: )

If all you have is his pager number, and you only see him once a week (and that's at 2AM for a booty call), then someone should be using some COMMON SENSE.

She doesn't have to make the offer, just like he doesn't have to take it........Seeing as how she's an "ADULT" as well.

Brothers can find a million excuses for everything he does. Everything is someone else's fault.

Same thing with Sisters.

When sisters get fired from their jobs, they only blame "the Man" (yes, Sisters do this as well--that's not just a Brother's excuse).......Never does she stop to think that, perhaps if she came to work on time more often, instead of staying out till 3 in the AM making her "booty clap", that she'd still be employed. :rolleyes:

When their lights get cut off, instead of calling and "cussing out" the bill collectors, perhaps if she'd stop to think that if she'd paid her bill instead of spending $300 on Prada and gobs more cash on something worthless like ACRYLIC NAILS and HAIR EXTENSIONS (that most brothers don't even care about), then she'd still be able to use her microwave.

When a sister is victimized no one has any problem seeing it as her fault. She should have left. Why did she stay? Why did she allow it? She did it to herself. She should have picked a better man. But as for the black man, he has a scapegoat for everything that he feels is wrong in the society.
The white man did this, the black woman did that, it's never his(the black man) fault.

I have never heard these excuses work for brothers, just like they don't work for ANYBODY, including Sisters.

Everyone is responsible for taking the blame for the bad in their lives, just like everyone wishes to take the credit for the good.

What's up with that, you're not a kid. You want to be handled with kid gloves, you want everyone to know what and how to say it to you . What about everyone else?

What planet do you live on, that you think that Brothers aren't judged by these criteria as well?

Women are not handled with kid gloves, if she doesn't take care of her responsibilities she has to wear a scarlet letter. No good b***h, whore, s**t, unfit mother, etc.

You know, if I didn't know better, I'd say that you were wishing you could get away more with some of the things you do, but are mad because you THINK that we Brothers do.

As for the white man, he's the devil, evil, he's racial profiling, he's holding you down, he's throwing you in jail without cause, he's selling you drugs and guns against your will, he's making you shoot each other, he's causing black on black crime, he's causing you to leave your family, screw around on your woman, beat her up, piss in your hallways, NONE OF IT IS YOUR FAULT, WHAT'S UP WITH THAT??????

Where do you get this non-sense from?

I don't believe that you've even TALKED to a single black man in your life--not a good one, anyways.

There are too many good brothers in this world (and not just the ones living in America either) for you to continue focusing on the negativity.

However, the fact that you do focus on this, instead of seeking and connecting with the positive, indicates the flaw in your own character.

In a single post, you became everything that you claim you are against.......Try checking Self, before you strive to check someone else for a change.

PEACE

panafrica

05-02-2005, 01:44 PM

I don't see Black women saving our race, anymore than the brothers are......Consumer reports states that Black women in America are the largest consumer group, but they consume nothing of susbstance: cars, clothes, jewelry and hair products. Where is the real estate and other valuable property that we should be acquiring? Most TV shows (video, sitcoms, etc) and movies depict black women with their @$$es hanging out, jiggling and dancing and neck-twisting and rump-shaking......Are you saving the race by exposing your bodies to the world? Do you honestly believe that this does not apply to many black women as well? How many Black women blame themselves for their poor relationships and financial situations? I haven't heard you make an introspective statement since your time here (welcome to DESTEE, by the way). We are all to blame for our problems, both individually and collectively. "You're not a kid", like you stated about us.
Wow, listen to this refusal to accept responsibility.There are far too many men to let women know what their situation is from the very beginning.....And even if they are only given a vague understanding (shame on the brothas that do this), Women should still be smart enough to see what's going on (whatever happened to Women's Intuition? :confused: )
If all you have is his pager number, and you only see him once a week (and that's at 2AM for a booty call), then someone should be using some COMMON SENSE. She doesn't have to make the offer, just like he doesn't have to take it........Seeing as how she's an "ADULT" as well. When sisters get fired from their jobs, they only blame "the Man" (yes, Sisters do this as well--that's not just a Brother's excuse).......Never does she stop to think that, perhaps if she came to work on time more often, instead of staying out till 3 in the AM making her "booty clap", that she'd still be employed. When their lights get cut off, instead of calling and "cussing out" the bill collectors, perhaps if she'd stop to think that if she'd paid her bill instead of spending $300 on Prada and gobs more cash on something worthless like ACRYLIC NAILS and HAIR EXTENSIONS (that most brothers don't even care about), then she'd still be able to use her microwave. I have never heard these excuses work for brothers, just like they don't work for ANYBODY, including Sisters. Everyone is responsible for taking the blame for the bad in their lives, just like everyone wishes to take the credit for the good. What planet do you live on, that you think that Brothers aren't judged by these criteria as well? You know, if I didn't know better, I'd say that you were wishing you could get away more with some of the things you do, but are mad because you THINK that we Brothers do. Where do you get this non-sense from? I don't believe that you've even TALKED to a single black man in your life--not a good one, anyways. There are too many good brothers in this world (and not just the ones living in America either) for you to continue focusing on the negativity. However, the fact that you do focus on this, instead of seeking and connecting with the positive, indicates the flaw in your own character. In a single post, you became everything that you claim you are against.......Try checking Self, before you strive to check someone else for a change.

Well said Samurai36, but I don't think Duchesse is open to hearing it (at least not currently). Passing blame & pointing fingers does nothing to improve relationships in our community or restore our families. Indeed, logic would dictate that a community can not prosper if its male & female members view each other with hostility and resentment. The black community has gone from its members depending on each other for support...to viewing each other as enemies. We have gone from dealing with our issues among ourselves to now demonizing each other in the media (both white & black). This is not a healthy state to be in. Those who truly have an interest in improving the state of our family & selves would be trying to heal...not throwing more gasoline on the flames.

karmashines

05-02-2005, 02:10 PM

Most of the gender problems we have in the black community are not race-specific, but rather a result of the typical misunderstandings and problems that go on between men and women. Racism and our past history has made it worse, but it is definitely not unique to just blacks. God knows if I had a penny for all of the non-black women that complain about their men on other message boards, or even in real life, I'd be rich!

Black women need to develop better self-esteem so they won't keep picking bad mates, while black men need to value women more. This is speaking in general, because there are obviously quite a few black women and men who do what is right when it comes to sex & relationships. These individuals are not as rare as the media makes it out to be, and they need to be acknowledged by black media outlets to counteract the negative images.

The black community has got to find a way to cure the gender disparities, becuase both black men and women will encounter the same obstacle from white culture: racism. How are we going to overcome this, if we cannot unite among ourselves? Both genders are equally important to the success of the black community, and both are responsible for why we're not succeeding as much as we'd like.

panafrica

05-02-2005, 04:24 PM

Most of the gender problems we have in the black community are not race-specific, but rather a result of the typical misunderstandings and problems that go on between men and women. Racism and our past history has made it worse, but it is definitely not unique to just blacks. God knows if I had a penny for all of the non-black women that complain about their men on other message boards, or even in real life, I'd be rich!

This is common sense! I really don't understand why so many (not all) black women believe differently. Any sista that doesn't believe white/Latino/Asian men also cheat, beat, and mistreat their women are dillusional. There are many differences between races; however, female-male gender & relationship issues are one of the few things all people have in common.

Black women need to develop better self-esteem so they won't keep picking bad mates, while black men need to value women more. This is speaking in general, because there are obviously quite a few black women and men who do what is right when it comes to sex & relationships. These individuals are not as rare as the media makes it out to be, and they need to be acknowledged by black media outlets to counteract the negative images.

The black community has got to find a way to cure the gender disparities, becuase both black men and women will encounter the same obstacle from white culture: racism. How are we going to overcome this, if we cannot unite among ourselves? Both genders are equally important to the success of the black community, and both are responsible for why we're not succeeding as much as we'd like.

Well reasoned & stated! Thank you Karmashines for bringing sensibility to this topic.

Duchesse

05-02-2005, 07:01 PM

Wade in the waaaaaater
Waaaaaaade in the waaaater children
Waaaaaaade in the waaaaaaater
God's gonna trouble the waaaaaaater............. :kiss2:

Destee

05-02-2005, 09:35 PM

Wade in the waaaaaater
Waaaaaaade in the waaaater children
Waaaaaaade in the waaaaaaater
God's gonna trouble the waaaaaaater............. :kiss2:

There you go Sister !! :angel:

Praise God and our Ancestors !

:heart:

Destee

panafrica

05-02-2005, 10:51 PM

Wade in the waaaaaater
Waaaaaaade in the waaaater children
Waaaaaaade in the waaaaaaater
God's gonna trouble the waaaaaaater............. :kiss2:

Intellectual discussion at its finest!

Duchesse

05-03-2005, 09:18 AM

Intellectual discussion at its finest!

If you keep doing what you're doing
You'll keep getting what you're getting
Moms Mabley

:baby: :baby: :baby: :baby: :baby: :baby: :baby: :baby: :baby:

SAMURAI36

05-03-2005, 10:28 AM

There you go Sister !! :angel:

Praise God and our Ancestors !

:heart:

Destee

But not at the expense of being sarcastic. :(

Intellectual discussion at its finest!

True indeed :rolleyes:

PEACE

NNQueen

03-14-2006, 10:05 PM

Although it's been almost a year since the last posted message by Brother Samurai, I still think this is a very good thread topic that needs to be brought back on track--no Black male/female bashing, just responding to Brother Isaiah's question.

Maybe there are some sisters out there who believe that they are, individually, "stepping up to the plate" and want to be counted.

Maybe there are sisters who want to become a "leader" but don't know how or feel it wouldn't make much of a difference if no one else helps her.

What are some of the qualities of leadership that Black women think makes a difference for us as a community?

Can we continue having some positive dialogue?

Queenie :spinstar:

HoneyBrown05

03-14-2006, 10:22 PM

The question is "when will Black Men step up to the plate?" God gave men the leadership, but another question we should ask is if and when we do step up, will our black men back us up?

spicybrown

03-14-2006, 10:25 PM

I've skimmed the post up to the 5th page on this thread. I am partial to no particular comment. However, I do believe that one of the reasons that BM are not stepping up to the plate, or taking share of their responsibilities is because they have come to believe they are powerless in a society that reinforces that mindset . Somehow the topic flip-flopped over to men not being "responsible". When this happens it proves that there are serious issues pertaining this topic that need resolution. We should all have the umph to get out there and take responsibility equally, because regardless what the Bible says, we (BW/BM) came here as slaves, and there was no class nor status in that arrangement.

spicybrown

03-14-2006, 10:37 PM

Samurai136.........

"Sounds like someone got hurt by a brother recently......"

You make it seem like a brother did right by hurting her. So what if she is hurt!! It's called cause and effect. Like I said earlier if men had more to lose in a relationship gone sour, comments like this wouldn't be made from men. I'll have you know that just because a woman expresses her anger against a man, or bed experiences with a man doesn't make her a bitter man-hater. I mean with us being the weaker vessel, we sure have to put up with a lot of bullcrap. I have a question for the men here who absolutely doubt sisters' bad experiences with men: "If y'all were women would you date your best friend who is a so-called playa? Or who had several baby-mammas? Or who spends every Friday night on a pu$$y hunt, while married?" Honestly. The warped Western mind has got to go.

SAMURAI36

03-15-2006, 12:20 AM

cursed heart

03-15-2006, 09:31 AM

I have to honestly say, that alot has changed for me, since I last made that comment. Alot of how I feel about relationships has changed, especially considering the fact that I don't feel particularly loved by Black women right now. :(

If I could go back and recant that comment, I would.

PEACE

You are not the only one.
I have been by and beside my black men but all they seem to care about is themselves.I still love em but it's never returned completely.They would rather be loners and live in a society where everything revolves around them which is usally being alone and carefree.If you have a good black woman or a good black man stand by them,guide them and love them with every inch of your heart and soul.
I wish that we understood that we need each other in every way imaginable but if we are constantly pushing each other away sooner or later we'll give up the fight for black love!

spicybrown

03-15-2006, 04:30 PM

Understood, Samurai. I forgive you ONLY because you mentioned you have a fettish for a 12+ Lady. LOL:)

SAMURAI36

03-15-2006, 04:33 PM

Understood, Samurai. I forgive you ONLY because you mentioned you have a fettish for a 12+ Lady. LOL:)

LOL, True indeed!! :lol:

Destee

04-06-2006, 11:25 PM

Smiling as i remember taking part in this discussion ... whew ... :kiss: for Brother Isaiah! :love:

:heart:

Destee

Kemetstry

04-07-2006, 03:12 PM

Brother Isaiah,

Maybe it's just me, i do tend to take some things personally and when i do, i have more difficulty seeing the full value in what's being shared. Perhaps i'm doing that now, and if so, please forgive and be patient with me, for i do want to understand.

There seems to be an accusatory tone to what you're saying, which makes it difficult for me to embrace the compliments being given at the same time. Sister Queenie obviously noticed it too, as she said, "Not only do you give us a gentle slap on the wrist but you give us a hug at the same time." I prefer my hugs not be mixed with my beatings.
For example, you say, "No longer should you 'play the wall' looking for leadership from Black Men ..." Who exactly are you speaking of when you say these words? Would you mind clearly identifying who these Sisters are? I don't know them. As i try to imagine them, i figure you might be talking about the women in the church, but by your own admission, it is not the man that is leading that effort. Yes, he may be given the priviledge of sitting in that spot, for whatever reason the Sisters prefer he be there ... but he is hardly leading. Brother Isaiah, please point these women out to me.

You have graciously listed many Sisters that are and have worked very hard to move our people forward, as an encouragement to prod us on up the mountain ... but at the same time, there are many Brothers that have done the same ... yet you fail to encourage Brothers to look at these men and come to themselves, do what they need to do so our people can get beyond this point.

It's almost as though you have written Black men off, excused them from responsibility ... but the work still needs doing ... so now you tell us about how great and powerful we are. So while we are out in the fields, in the heat of the day, already doing double the work of the average person (because our male counterpart is not there, and has not been there for quite some time), all we have to do is think of the flowery words you've shared and the sun beating down on our already tired bodies, will not be so hot, and these words will inspire us to produce even more, because you have great confidence in us?!

I do appreciate the confidence you have in us, and it is not misplaced. But as an elder male, don't you think it is as equally important, if not more so, for you to say the same to Brothers? I would think you'd say these things to them, considering the condition they are in ... long before you ever say it to us.

You start this thread with a title that implies we are not doing our part, and all within it, you accuse us of that very thing, going so far as to say we are "sloughing off responsibility to Brothers" ... when based on your own description of the current condition of Brothers ... they are hardly in any shape to do anything substantive for themselves, let alone our people ... and then you all but excuse them!

We have a Brothers Forum too, Brother Isaiah. I think it is as wrong as wrong can be, to not work to encourage our Brothers to come up out of that hole they're in and be the men that their Families and communities need them to be. Instead you say to us, just work harder!

Again, i'm not sure if i'm missing something in your message. I must be, because this makes no sense to me at all. If it is compliments you want to give us, we need them, so please continue. If it is admonishment, we are probably in need of that as well, so give it too. But whichever it is, make yourself clear, so we receive it all properly.

Brother Isaiah, you are more than welcome to visit the Sisters Forum whenever you want, asking whatever you will ... and likewise ... Sisters are welcome in the Brothers Forum to do the same. So please, don't stay away from us. We need you. We need all our Brothers.

I'm having trouble understanding what great impact we as women can have, without the strength of our men with us. Certainly we can do some great things, as has been proven ... but it is because we are not working together, hand in hand, that we suffer like we do.

I don't believe we can ever fully realize our true potential as a people, until we are working together, Black men and Black women. If you are suggesting that we, Black women, should move forward without the hope of our Brother's support, then that is another thing ... a very sad and devasting thing ... which calls for a complete reassessment of life as we know it. If that is what you're suggesting, then things are worse than i ever imagined them to be.

:heart:

Destee

Yes dear, you tend to take things too personal. Which clouds your objectivity

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 03:15 PM

Yes dear, you tend to take things too personal. Which clouds your objectivity

I'm inclined to agree.........No offense of course.

PEACE

Kemetstry

04-07-2006, 03:25 PM

I'm inclined to agree.........No offense of course.

PEACE

Man Up!!!!!!

You're suppose to be a samurai! No wimpy " no offense " stances. Dont appologize for speaking the truth. She'll think you're weak!

:shades:

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 03:35 PM

Man Up!!!!!!

You're suppose to be a samurai! No wimpy " no offense " stances. Dont appologize for speaking the truth. She'll think you're weak!

:shades:

Yeah, I guess you're right. She was one of those that called me a "coward", for saying the same thing that other Brothers here have said. :?:

I guess sometimes, you can't win for losing.

cursed heart

04-07-2006, 03:58 PM

What exactly is wrong with Black men who choose to "usually be alone and carefree"?

At least they "Live and Let Live" without making any one else's lives miserable.:coffee:
I suppose so but you could be one of the great ones and god knows there are great sistaha's waiting for you to come out of the bat cave:callme:

Destee

04-07-2006, 04:03 PM

Yes dear, you tend to take things too personal. Which clouds your objectivity

I'm inclined to agree.........No offense of course.

PEACE

Kemetstry and SAMURAI ... i don't think either one of you want to start with me.

Yeah, I guess you're right. She was one of those that called me a "coward", for saying the same thing that other Brothers here have said. :?:

I guess sometimes, you can't win for losing.

SAMURAI ... prove that i called you a coward. I believe you're lying.

I don't call folk out of their names, it's against our rules.

Could it be that you took something a little too personal?

:heart:

Destee

Kemetstry

04-07-2006, 04:13 PM

Kemetstry and SAMURAI ... i don't think either one of you want to start with me.

SAMURAI ... prove that i called you a coward. I believe you're lying.

I don't call folk out of their names, it's against our rules.

Could it be that you took something a little too personal?

:heart:

Destee

There you go again! When will this non objectivity cease???

:whip: Like a step child!

Kemetstry

04-07-2006, 04:15 PM

Yeah, I guess you're right. She was one of those that called me a "coward", for saying the same thing that other Brothers here have said. :?:

I guess sometimes, you can't win for losing.

You're a man! It's always our fault. Those are the rules.

:toast: :geek:

Destee

04-07-2006, 04:17 PM

You're a man! It's always our fault. Those are the rules.

:toast: :geek:

:ref: If you know the rules ... play by them ... and shaddup !

:heart:

Destee

Kemetstry

04-07-2006, 04:24 PM

:ref: If you know the rules ... play by them ... and shaddup !

:heart:

Destee

You know how I get when you're forceful.

Wear that outfit I like when I come by tonight

Destee

04-07-2006, 04:27 PM

You know how I get when you're forceful.

Wear that outfit I like when I come by tonight

lol Kemetstry ... MOVE! ... you don't wanna fight with me ... i haven't whooped a man in a long time, and i'm way over due ... don't let it be you 'cause it won't be pretty or pleasurable ... in any way, shape, form, or fashion!

:heart:

Destee

Kemetstry

04-07-2006, 04:30 PM

lol Kemetstry ... MOVE! ... you don't wanna fight with me ... i haven't whooped a man in a long time, and i'm way over due ... don't let it be you 'cause it won't be pretty or pleasurable ... in any way, shape, form, or fashion!

:heart:

Destee

* Wondering when she got into S & M and if handcuffs will be involved *

:luvu: :dance: :thinking: :terrific: :flirt:

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 04:46 PM

Kemetstry and SAMURAI ... i don't think either one of you want to start with me.

SAMURAI ... prove that i called you a coward. I believe you're lying.

I don't call folk out of their names, it's against our rules.

Could it be that you took something a little too personal?

:heart:

Destee

I can't concern myself with what you "believe", but I do know that it's not nice to call people a "liar" without KNOWING for a fact.

Nonetheless, I shall in due time, satiate your request for proof.

PEACE

Destee

04-07-2006, 04:49 PM

I can't concern myself with what you "believe", but I do know that it's not nice to call people a "liar" without KNOWING for a fact.

Nonetheless, I shall in due time, satiate your request for proof.

PEACE

Yeah ... you do that.

:heart:

Destee

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 05:21 PM

OK, allow me to stand corrected, in that the word "coward" was not specifically used, but terms were indeed used that are very synonymous to it, and all used when referred to me, both specifically, as well as myself as a man in general.

Wouldn't this speak to their own courage and/or determination to do what is in their heart to do, or lack thereof? If a man has it set in his heart to do something, he does it, right?

Brother SAMURAI ... like i said, if you're afraid to compliment Sisters ... don't do it.

I don't know too many Sisters that want a skaredy-cat man anyway

To admit that this keeps you from doing very natural and basic things, like complimenting Sisters, i just don't understand that. Nor do i understand how this is all the Sisters fault, and we are being given instruction on how to help you be more courageous men ... as it relates to speaking to another ??!!

We are talking about something as simple as complimenting another, and Brothers are all up in this thread whining about how they can't do it because a Sister did such and such! What kind of men do we have, if they are afraid of simple interactions such as this?

If a Big Strong Black Man is afraid to compliment a Sister, what type of courageous act can we expect from him? What else is he afraid of? Being afraid to compliment a Sister, in my opinion, is akin to being afraid of one's own shadow! What can we do to help him get over this fear ... and really ... man ... would we want to? It seems like a lot of work, deep inside of him, that needs to be done.

All of the above can be referenced here: http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40618

That said, please refrain from calling me a liar (unless you don't "believe" that you did that either), ever again.

PEACE

Destee

04-07-2006, 05:29 PM

OK, allow me to stand corrected, in that the word "coward" was not specifically used ...

Based on your own words ... you have lied, which means you're a liar ... as i did not call you a coward.

:heart:

Destee

IfUComeSoftly

04-07-2006, 05:34 PM

Based on your own words ... you have lied, which means you're a liar ... as i did not call you a coward.

:heart:

Destee

:book: now this takes the cake.:coffee: i don't see anything at all wrong with what you said... just like i didn't see anything wrong with me saying that people were whining in a post... people are way too touchy around here.... aren't we entitled to our opinions... can't we use adjectives? and ain't this your stuff anyway... not starting stuff... but shoot... my mama could/can do whatever she wants to do in here own house... just as i can... just as you can... :book: :coffee:

Destee

04-07-2006, 05:36 PM

:book: now this takes the cake.:coffee: i don't see anything at all wrong with what you said... just like i didn't see anything wrong with me saying that people were whining in a post... people are way too touchy around here.... aren't we entitled to our opinions... can't we use adjectives? and ain't this your stuff anyway... not starting stuff... but shoot... my mama could/can do whatever she wants to do in here own house... just as i can... just as you can... :book: :coffee:

and they say we're too sensitive, emotional, and take things personal ... jeeez!

:heart:

Destee

IfUComeSoftly

04-07-2006, 05:40 PM

and they say we're too sensitive, emotional, and take things personal ... jeeez!

:heart:

Destee

Sister Destee... have you been lurking lately under the radar. i haven't seen you a minute... good to have you back!;) ;) ;)

Destee

04-07-2006, 05:43 PM

Sister Destee... have you been lurking lately under the radar. i haven't seen you a minute... good to have you back!;) ;) ;)

Yes ... i'm here Sister ... lurking under the radar ... folk get all emotional and sensitive when i share my opinion(s) in the discussions ... so i move back out of the way, so they don't get their feelings all hurt and stuff ... you know ... :wink: ... but i'm here! :)

:heart:

Destee

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 05:44 PM

:book: now this takes the cake.:coffee: i don't see anything at all wrong with what you said... just like i didn't see anything wrong with me saying that people were whining in a post...

You're right; there is nothing wrong with saying anything.......EXCEPT when it's not correct.

It's fine to say that people are "afraid, or skaredy-cats"......Only if that's what they are.

If't fine to say that people are "whining".......Only if that's what they are doing.

Are you whining right now? If not, then is it alright if I were to say: "IfUComeSoftly is really doing a lot of whining right now...."

Does that sit well at all with you? If not, then I would suggest looking more objectively at the situation.

Besides, I find it convenient that people accuse others of "Whining", only when they don't want to hear what the other person has to say.

people are way too touchy around here.... aren't we entitled to our opinions... can't we use adjectives?

You do realize that "******" is an adjective, yes? Is that an alright adjective to go tossing around at leisure?

Please exercise the same common sense that you would no doubt expect from others.

and ain't this your stuff anyway... not starting stuff... but shoot... my mama could/can do whatever she wants to do in here own house... just as i can... just as you can... :book: :coffee:

So, you resort to this cop-out logic? "It's my game, so I can play it anyway I want"?

How quaint. I wonder how many of us would say that to the White man, whose "house this (America) is". Yet, so many of us are trying make him straightened up and fly right in his own house.

Go figure :rolleyes:

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 05:45 PM

And they wonder why we Brothers don't want to be bothered with them.........Jeez!!

Destee

04-07-2006, 05:48 PM

And they wonder why we Brothers don't want to be bothered with them.........Jeez!!

Who don't you want to be bothered with ... on destee ??

Let me know, 'cause i can help you figure out a way to not be bothered with them.

:heart:

Destee

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 05:53 PM

Who don't you want to be bothered with ... on destee ??

Let me know, 'cause i can help you figure out a way to not be bothered with them.

:heart:

Destee

That's cute, and your meaning, though implicit is duly noted. I'm sure you would like to "help me" in that respect. You've "helped me" before, and I'm sure you're anxious to do so again.

However, my comment was in direct reference to your statements in that other thread, about how Brothers (in general) do not want to approach and/or compliment Sisters (in general).

It has nothing to do with anyone ".......On Destee" per se.

PEACE

Destee

04-07-2006, 05:55 PM

That's cute, and your meaning, though implicit is duly noted. I'm sure you would like to "help me" in that respect. You've "helped me" before, and I'm sure you're anxious to do so again.

However, my comment was in direct reference to your statements in that other thread, about how Brothers (in general) do not want to approach and/or compliment Sisters (in general).

It has nothing to do with anyone ".......On Destee" per se.

PEACE

aiight ... jes' let me know ... i'm here if you need me.

:heart:

Destee

Kemetstry

04-07-2006, 06:24 PM

aiight ... jes' let me know ... i'm here if you need me.

:heart:

Destee

Quit picking on him. See. This is what we mean. A perfectly innocent comment(s) and you start smacking him around. If I didnt know better, I would think you were......
.o0( Uh oh!!!!!) * easing chocolate into the room and running *

SAMURAI36

04-07-2006, 06:37 PM

Quit picking on him. See. This is what we mean. A perfectly innocent comment(s) and you start smacking him around. If I didnt know better, I would think you were......
.o0( Uh oh!!!!!) * easing chocolate into the room and running *

LMAO!!! You're a funny brother. :lol:

IfUComeSoftly

04-07-2006, 07:21 PM

You're right; there is nothing wrong with saying anything.......EXCEPT when it's not correct.

It's fine to say that people are "afraid, or skaredy-cats"......Only if that's what they are.

If't fine to say that people are "whining".......Only if that's what they are doing.

Are you whining right now? If not, then is it alright if I were to say: "IfUComeSoftly is really doing a lot of whining right now...."

Does that sit well at all with you? If not, then I would suggest looking more objectively at the situation.

Besides, I find it convenient that people accuse others of "Whining", only when they don't want to hear what the other person has to say.

You do realize that "******" is an adjective, yes? Is that an alright adjective to go tossing around at leisure?

Please exercise the same common sense that you would no doubt expect from others.

So, you resort to this cop-out logic? "It's my game, so I can play it anyway I want"?

How quaint. I wonder how many of us would say that to the White man, whose "house this (America) is". Yet, so many of us are trying make him straightened up and fly right in his own house.

Go figure :rolleyes:

this isn't a science experiment or a mathmatics equation... opinons are relative to who's doing the talking...

it you think i'm whining... then that's what you think... if you think <i know you don't... just using it> that i'm a *****.... then that's what you think... i'm not whining... i'm not a *****... so i could care less...

this is not the white man's house... as brotha kente said.. this is stolen land... this may be the game of the priv'd but its not their house...

nah... whining is when people just complain and complain about the same thing yet they have not devised any plan or recourse to change... at least that's what i think...

carry on...

common sense... i have enough not to carry on trying to rationalize something that i think is irrational... smh....

IfUComeSoftly

04-07-2006, 07:24 PM

and ***** can be a noun, an adjective, or an adverb... don't worry... i know that you still love me...

go figure... who woulda thunk it?!?

Kemetstry

04-07-2006, 08:29 PM

LMAO!!! You're a funny brother. :lol:

descretion IS the better part of valor

SAMURAI36

04-10-2006, 11:18 AM

descretion IS the better part of valor

So I'm learning :thinking:

But I'm sure you're knowledgeable in the ways of the Samurai....?? Seppuku is the most honorable alternative to defeat.

jamesfrmphilly

04-10-2006, 11:54 AM

i am failing to see the humor here.

cursed heart

04-10-2006, 08:42 PM

lol!:love:

that is so funny(@batcave)

actually i been getting out more enjoying the susnhine!

but let me ask..."god knows there are great sistaha's waiting for you to come out"??

i'm out in the open wondering "what are they waiting for"..hmmm...:rolling:

Baby I don't know.
I heard a joke on the radio yesterday.
They said if you want to find a good sistah follow a bad brother home!
Most of us are taken or with someone we don't need to be with.
Sometimes when you are in a unhealthy relatioship you miss out on a good brother that could be waiting for you:smooch:

OmowaleX

08-25-2007, 03:35 PM

Goddess Auset333

08-25-2007, 06:07 PM

Beloved brother Isaiah:
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
I bow and salute this question.

A Nation will rise no higher than its Womb Gender (females)
The Destiny of the Womb Gender: Is the destiny of the world.

queen goddess Queentswana writes and I agree: Well, here's a fact...Everything that you just laid down was nothing but the truth, however, there is a bottom line to the biggest reason why women don't step up to the plate. And it's called "Religion". That's the top line, the middle line and believe what you will...it's the bottom line. It was numerous of women warriors in our past and not one of them will you be able to connect them with 'religion...not one. They were all spiritual, but none was religious. The religion was designed to separate the mass of people...and it's working just fine. I have to give "white people" their respect because they are very intelligent indeed, the white man wrote the bible and the first thing they did was ...get rid of all the women in the bible. Why? ...we held to much power. there are (I believe) 18 missing books from the bible, have we ever wondered why? ...surely if they were in there, they must have been important. And the down-fall of women didn't just start yesterday or yesteryear...it started thousands of years ago...and a d@m good job was done. I'm saying that to say this, some or many or even most women of today, being religious...feel like they are doing and acting out..."the works of the lord" ...it's been programed in us for hundreds and hundreds of years. At one time we were at the head of "wars" ...but as it is today, ...some women would rather die then lose their 'religion. At one time, I too was in that number, I am boxed into no religion, but I am a very....spiritual woman. And I do understand and agree with all that you said, but again, this is the work of the "white man"
------------------------------------------------------------
Now for the Revelation. As soon as the Black womb gender get the revelation of who SHE is (below), and stop living the lie told to us we are not this and that, we can get out Black Divine Kingdom back from the evil ones who stole it from us. Not some of what was stolen from us, but ALL of it...and then some.

The Black Womb-Gender:

The Queen Mother, is the Mother of Eternal Infinity and is not to be reduced to the Material geographical Level, She is the Divine Essence that is beyond being defined, she which has no Beginning nor Ending, nor does she has the need to create, because just by her mere Divine Action, reveal all that is of Truth And Reality, she is verified by all there is in and cause the physical Universe to be, with the Perfect Night serving as her Womb, from which all and everything that is of Matter and is Anti-Matter, which Is To be And Is Not, To Be, yet all is of that Divine Queen Mother, she which Transcend Space, Motion and Time, yet is the Mother of It All, making Her To be The all That I Am, That I Am Not.

The Queen Mother Is The Divine Essence.

On the Anthropomorphous Level, the Queen Mother Is The Daughter Of the Essence Shadow, which Is the Perfect Night, the Black Eternal Infinite Mass being the Ethereal Universe, In Which Divine Truth and Reality Reside and is in a constant Motion of Coming and Going There From And Into.

The Anthropomorphous Queen Mother is The black Womb Gender Of The Physical Universe, carrying the Ethereal Divine Universe Within that Physical goddess Body, in other words, the Queen Mother is the Black Divine goddess of this Solar System and all others solar systems that make up the the physical Universe, She Is The Strength and Guide in and of the Physical Universe. (Isis and Osiris)
--------------------------
The Black womb gender do not even know that she is the Blanket condemnation that will destroy all evil when She Know and BE her Divine Soul -Mind. When she, the black womb gender returns to her Divine goddess status, the black man will fall in line, although separate (genders) we are Still interconnected (ONE).

I recall as a child watching my uncle cut the snake tail off. I heard my grandmother yell to him saying: Throw the tail far away so that the snake will not be able to reconnect to the tail, because if the snake reconnect to the tail it, the snake can continue to live.

Of course I did not over stand that as a child, The revelation to that is we must disconnect from the evil tails/tales that keeps us from living a Divine life. As long as w stay connected to the evil tail the snake will have its way with us.

I read where it says: And the serpent shall bruise the Womb-gender heel.
Tail: Something that follows or takes the last place:
The hindmost part of something: end, rear1, tag end, tail end. See precede
Something that follows or is drawn along behind: trail, train, wake2. See precede
Informal. An agent assigned to observe and report on another: shadow, watcher. See investigate
The black womb gender have been badly bruised, and all her bruising caused the bruising of the black once Divine family and its separation.
She must now Rise and take back her Once Divine place, and realize that she is no longer going to be the Tail of the evil that caused her to be the way most of us are now. She must realize that she Is not Made in The Human Being Image (Man) religion teaches us. She must Realize she is the Original design of the Divine Intelligence, Energy, Power, Spirit (all One). She must be the Divine head (Above) The Queen Mother Is The Divine Essence.

end- A result; an outcome. The black Womb gender is the results and the outcome.
rear-The point or area farthest from the front-She must now rise up to be a Divine front line womb gender.
tag end- The very end. No more she must remain the tag end of evil.
tail end- The very end; Same as above.
precede- She must now rise up and go forward with a Divine mind-set
1. To come, exist, or occur before in time.
2. To come before in order or rank; surpass or outrank.
3. To be in a position in front of; go in advance of.
4. To preface; introduce:
To come or go before in time, order, rank, or position.
trail- To lag behind -No more Mental lagging for the Black womb gender
train- A staff of people following in attendance; a retinue. The black womb gender must train herself so she can train others
wake-It is time the Black womb gender become fully awaken.
v.intr.
1.
a. To cease to sleep; become awake:
b. To stay awake:
c. To be brought into a state of awareness or alertness:
2. To keep watch or guard. To keep watch over her Divine Soul mind
v.tr.
1. To rouse from sleep; awaken.
2. To stir, as from a dormant or inactive condition; rouse:.
3. To make aware of; alert:
a. To keep a vigil over.
1. A watch; a vigil.
shadow-3. An imperfect imitation or copy.

Whose Shadow is the Black Womb gender operating in today? The evil one or the Divine one?
watcher-
1. One that watches or observes: .
2. One who keeps vigil,
investigate-
To study closely or systematically: analyze, examine, inspect. See investigate
To go into or through for the purpose of making discoveries or acquiring information: delve, dig, explore, inquire, look into, probe, reconnoiter, scout1. See investigate
The Black womb gender must renew her Once Divine teachers license (within) Soul-Mind.

When the Rod of Truth, and the Staff of Reality is with you, who would come up against such but a fool who do not know how to be an idiot.

If only we Know and Be that Truth, we would be able to experience what I and other like minds experience.

WE have NOT because we refuse to ASK, SEEK and Knock within on the Doors of our Divine Soul-mind to read the Scriptures on the Scrolls in our Divine DNA. When we do not, I ask: Is an Unexamined life worth living? Do we desire to see a Divine Black Family Reunion? It is in us Black Womb genders that this WILL BE DONE. Do not allow fear to be our desire.

Black Womb Genders:

It is our Period
Our cycle
Our Milli-second
Nana-second
Minutes
Moment
Hour
day
Month
year

to

escalate
elevate
levitate
consciously/subconsciously

We are for truth and reality (same)

or

For The Lies and deception we have been told

CHOOSE

The Black Womb genders can use the help of All Black Divine Thinking Black men to help us along the way. The type of Black Men who no longer have a Playas Card and do not allow his EGO to get in the way. Black Men who over stand what happened to us as a people and why it happened to us. Where we are now, and how we should fetch our Divine right mind-set. Black Men who knows the value of the black womb genders, and teaches other brothers the value of us.

RELIGION IS IN THE WAY OF EVERY THING WE MUST DIVINELY DO TO BRING ABOUT OUR DIVINE BLACK LIBERATION. IT PUTS THE womb gender at the tail end, sucking on the the Beast Breast milk of lies and deception denying who she really is. She lives a religious Pacifier tranquilizer
(a drug used to reduce mental disturbance) life, which is Divinely Spiritually DEAD, causing one to have no remembrance of their once Divine selves. Comfortable, complacent having no complaints about bedding down with lies and deception, that is killing the whole Black people. The evil tail/tales have done an Oscar/Emmy number on us once Divine people. If only we knew and Be Truth and Reality we would have our Crown Of Divine that which surpasses Oscars/Emmy's.

WARNING: We must be careful not to bury the W- Word (WORK), because if we do, we will not be able to THINK, and that is how we advance.

As long as I am living in this Profane environment, I too and subject to err.

Divine Thinkers, Rebuke me, should I err.

See the TRUTH:SuN030:
Hear the TRUTH :SuN030:
Taste the TRUTH :SuN030:
Feel the TRUTH:SuN030:
Touch the TRUTH:SuN030:
Know the TRUTH :SuN030:
BE the TRUTH :SuN030:

Black People | African Americans | Online Community

Black Chat - Black Poetry - Black Discussions - Destee