What is the "culture" that shapes and fashions the hearts, minds, Souls, and spirits of black/African Americans?

Is our culture African?

Is our culture American?

Or is our culture black/African American?

Consider the Powerful Concept of Culture from Dr. Marimba Ani:

"In all cultures there is the "taken-for-granted," assumed, and habitual aspect that though generally less visible than others, and rarely explicit - exerts the most profound effect on its members. It is precisely because these "hidden controls" functions on such a deep level, that they become habitual responses that are experienced "as though they were innate."

Culture "teaches" its "logic" and "world-view" to the ordinary participants, who assimilate it, assume it, and push it BENEATH the SURFACE, from where it influences their COLLECTIVE BEHAVIOR and response.

Culture, as a "norm"-a-tive structure, concerns standards of desirability - values.

"Norms" are rules of conduct, that, specify what should and should not be done. The "norm"-a-tive aspects of culture, combine to form a "set of guidelines" by which people regulate their own behavior and that of their fellows.

"Values" and "norms" can only be supported or positively "sanctioned" within a culture in such a way that behavior that conforms to them is "rewarded" - meets with "success" and "approval." While behavior that contradicts them is "punished" - results in "failure" and is "put-down" by one's fellows, or is simply not rewarded in any way, is not recognized as "valued" behavior.

"World-view" is that aspect of culture that, functions to replace presented chaos with perceived order, by supplying the members of a culture with definitions of reality, with which to make sense of their surroundings and experiences. It is the meaningful organization of experience, the "assumed structure of reality." This "deep structure" of culture, has a most powerful influence on the shape of the culture and the thought-patterns of its members.

Then "special" members of the culture, regarded as "intellectuals, scholars, theorist," retrieve the assumptions of this world-view and re-present them as tenets of a universal system of thought, one that presents standards of logic, rationality, and truth to the world.

These "intellectuals and scholars" are considered the "theorist" of the culture, when actually, their ideas, simply reflect the assumed reality of the mainstream culture. But the manner of their "presentation" is authoritative."

From, "YURUGU: An African-Centered Critique of European Cultural Thought and Behavior." Out of 636 pages that's a brief excerpt.

What is the "culture" that shapes and fashions the hearts, minds, Souls, and spirits of black/African Americans?

Is our culture African?

Is our culture American?

Or is our culture black/African American?

Consider the Powerful Concept of Culture from Dr. Marimba Ani:

"In all cultures there is the "taken-for-granted," assumed, and habitual aspect that though generally less visible than others, and rarely explicit - exerts the most profound effect on its members. It is precisely because these "hidden controls" functions on such a deep level, that they become habitual responses that are experienced "as though they were innate."

Culture "teaches" its "logic" and "world-view" to the ordinary participants, who assimilate it, assume it, and push it BENEATH the SURFACE, from where it influences their COLLECTIVE BEHAVIOR and response.

Culture, as a "norm"-a-tive structure, concerns standards of desirability - values.

"Norms" are rules of conduct, that, specify what should and should not be done. The "norm"-a-tive aspects of culture, combine to form a "set of guidelines" by which people regulate their own behavior and that of their fellows.

"Values" and "norms" can only be supported or positively "sanctioned" within a culture in such a way that behavior that conforms to them is "rewarded" - meets with "success" and "approval." While behavior that contradicts them is "punished" - results in "failure" and is "put-down" by one's fellows, or is simply not rewarded in any way, is not recognized as "valued" behavior.

"World-view" is that aspect of culture that, functions to replace presented chaos with perceived order, by supplying the members of a culture with definitions of reality, with which to make sense of their surroundings and experiences. It is the meaningful organization of experience, the "assumed structure of reality." This "deep structure" of culture, has a most powerful influence on the shape of the culture and the thought-patterns of its members.

Then "special" members of the culture, regarded as "intellectuals, scholars, theorist," retrieve the assumptions of this world-view and re-present them as tenets of a universal system of thought, one that presents standards of logic, rationality, and truth to the world.

These "intellectuals and scholars" are considered the "theorist" of the culture, when actually, their ideas, simply reflect the assumed reality of the mainstream culture. But the manner of their "presentation" is authoritative."

From, "YURUGU: An African-Centered Critique of European Cultural Thought and Behavior." Out of 636 pages that's a brief excerpt.


Thank you Kannte,

I'm glad you brought this up. I will give you my understanding shortly. I think our culture is a slave culture with Afrikan retentions and European-influence. I will explain my conclusion, as I said later.

Blackbird

Marimba is both right and wrong at the same time...which is what we call a paradox. First we have to consider that we largely exist in an African world that's been painted white in terms of its knowledge base and achievements. Secondly, the purpose of the scholars is indeed the retrieval of information and history, not only for our reclaimation, but for the purpose of our being able to take the best of the past, the best of the present and move it forward to build a better future. Therefore culture is constantly changing and remolding itself.

We could better ask the question of "what is truely European ?" Obviously his language and linear thought process and his history of death and destruction, as well as his definition of self by names and the such. These are easy things to let go of as we retrieve the essence of who and how we were and are to be from our past. We furthermore do not possess a linear thought process nor have a history of death and destruction.

Remember, we have been a certain way for millions of years before this short imposition of European destruction upon us, so there are genetic, spiritual and cultural factors about our people that have been ingrained by millions of years and will not so easily dissappear due to a few hundred years of European imposition upon us. So in as much as she gave a fairly decent analysis...it suffers from myopia in its conclusive thought process.

In actual, manifest fact WHAT "cultural" VALUES and NORMS does the black/African-American practice?

Does the black/African-American in actual, manifest fact live and practice the "cultural" VALUES and NORMS of AMERICANISM?

Or, do we live and practice in actual, manifest fact the genetic/DNA "cultural" VALUES and NORMS of AFRICANS?

Or, do we live, practice and pass on to our children in actual, manifest fact a COMBINATION of the genetic/DNA "cultural" VALUES and NORMS of AFRICANS and the "cultural" VALUES and NORMS of AMERICANISM; such that we define ourselves as black/African-American?

Kannte, thank you for bringing this topic to the board, because it actually deserves a forum unto itself!

Without seeming to campaign for such a forum, or to contradict what Dr. Ani has said, my belief is that Culture more than any single factor, including genetics, is what makes who us we are... In effect, it is our psychic, social, spiritual essence, and as brother Keita brilliantly dissected it, a million years cannot be erased by a half a millenium of lies and distortions(things African being refryed as European) Thank you for that, brother Keita!!!(smile!)

As I mentioned in a previous post, I was banned from a discussion board for asserting that African Americans have a cultural copyright to protect as regards our music and performance styles, as they are derived from the larger African/African American culture. For example, how could there be a Blues without our unique folk lexicon and cultural experience, and how could dancing and performance styles such as, James Brown, Michael Jackson, and MC Hammer come from a culture which doesn't even value dancing, much less dance from the hips down???

Dr. Keita, I am looking for one of our scholars to do a comprehensive breakdown of what particular African Cultures have actually influenced African Americans... Is that too much to ask from your intellectual vantage point??? Like in Cuba, it is said that Yoruba-Kongo culture, among many, strongly influences the African Cuban culture... In Haiti, it is said that Dahomey is the Culture with the strongest influence there, and in Brazil, Angola, and the central AFrican culture... Dr. Joseph Holloway says it is probably Kongo-Central, Angola-South, that has influenced African Americans most - though most of us brought here came from West AFrica... I know that the Gullah went back to Sierra Leone, and found that the indigo-making and the Basketry are identical, as well as the english speech patterns... Dr. Robert Farris Thompson has also confirmed Dr. Holloway about the strong Congolese influence on African Americans, particularly in the deep south... I get confused however, when I am told that there were Africans from the Rice coast(Sierra Leone) brought here to cultivate rice, train horses, and fish, as they were extremely good at this...

In any event, I wish that there were a forum entirely dedicated to CULTURE at Destee's, because we stand to learn a great deal about the true essence of African people by looking THERE... Why does Homer Jones spike a football, or Connie Hawkins and Julius Erving soar elegantly, as if dancing on air, to throw down a dunk??? Why does Ali and Sugar Ray dance, and talk trash to their opponent to get that psychological edge??? Why would a sista shoot a brotha down if his rap aint strong, and why is style as important as substance among African people no matter where we are on the planet(bright lively colors!!!) The answers are connected to culture, and I think that would be quite fascinating for us, coming to KNOW and understand what makes African people tick... It seems to me, the European knows more about that than we do, and that's a doggoned shame...

Peace!
Isaiah

Is "culture" a product our genetic/DNA natures?

Is the "cultural" product of Caucasians/Europeans INHERENTLY different, from Orientals or Africans and vis-versa because of genetic/DNA?

Does each race, African, Oriental, Caucasian produce a different "CULTURE" that is inherently inborn, a product of the nature of each race?

Is there a UNIVERSAL CULTURE that includes all human beings and races?

Is "culture" a product our genetic/DNA natures?

Is the "cultural" product of Caucasians/Europeans INHERENTLY different, from Orientals or Africans and vis-versa because of genetic/DNA?

Does each race, African, Oriental, Caucasian produce a different "CULTURE" that is inherently inborn, a product of the nature of each race?

Is there a UNIVERSAL CULTURE that includes all human beings and
races?

Kannte,

It is complex as culture results from a number of combinations, genetics being one. However, I think we overlook the fact of experience. Culture exists to address the needs of a people. Every group has needs unique unto themselves.

Blackbird

Kannte, thank you for bringing this topic to the board, because it actually deserves a forum unto itself!

Without seeming to campaign for such a forum, or to contradict what Dr. Ani has said, my belief is that Culture more than any single factor, including genetics, is what makes who us we are... In effect, it is our psychic, social, spiritual essence, and as brother Keita brilliantly dissected it, a million years cannot be erased by a half a millenium of lies and distortions(things African being refryed as European) Thank you for that, brother Keita!!!(smile!)

As I mentioned in a previous post, I was banned from a discussion board for asserting that African Americans have a cultural copyright to protect as regards our music and performance styles, as they are derived from the larger African/African American culture. For example, how could there be a Blues without our unique folk lexicon and cultural experience, and how could dancing and performance styles such as, James Brown, Michael Jackson, and MC Hammer come from a culture which doesn't even value dancing, much less dance from the hips down???

Dr. Keita, I am looking for one of our scholars to do a comprehensive breakdown of what particular African Cultures have actually influenced African Americans... Is that too much to ask from your intellectual vantage point??? Like in Cuba, it is said that Yoruba-Kongo culture, among many, strongly influences the African Cuban culture... In Haiti, it is said that Dahomey is the Culture with the strongest influence there, and in Brazil, Angola, and the central AFrican culture... Dr. Joseph Holloway says it is probably Kongo-Central, Angola-South, that has influenced African Americans most - though most of us brought here came from West AFrica... I know that the Gullah went back to Sierra Leone, and found that the indigo-making and the Basketry are identical, as well as the english speech patterns... Dr. Robert Farris Thompson has also confirmed Dr. Holloway about the strong Congolese influence on African Americans, particularly in the deep south... I get confused however, when I am told that there were Africans from the Rice coast(Sierra Leone) brought here to cultivate rice, train horses, and fish, as they were extremely good at this...

In any event, I wish that there were a forum entirely dedicated to CULTURE at Destee's, because we stand to learn a great deal about the true essence of African people by looking THERE... Why does Homer Jones spike a football, or Connie Hawkins and Julius Erving soar elegantly, as if dancing on air, to throw down a dunk??? Why does Ali and Sugar Ray dance, and talk trash to their opponent to get that psychological edge??? Why would a sista shoot a brotha down if his rap aint strong, and why is style as important as substance among African people no matter where we are on the planet(bright lively colors!!!) The answers are connected to culture, and I think that would be quite fascinating for us, coming to KNOW and understand what makes African people tick... It seems to me, the European knows more about that than we do, and that's a doggoned shame...

Peace!
Isaiah


Brother Isaiah,

When discerning the regions of African influence, we must look at, I believe, state preference. South Carolina has been documented as importing a greater percentages of African from the Congo/Angola than from anywhere else. Gullah people do, as far information and cultural retention tells us, have a greater influx of Rice Coast (Sierre Leone) people.

Blackbird

Marimba is both right and wrong at the same time...which is what we call a paradox. First we have to consider that we largely exist in an African world that's been painted white in terms of its knowledge base and achievements. Secondly, the purpose of the scholars is indeed the retrieval of information and history, not only for our reclaimation, but for the purpose of our being able to take the best of the past, the best of the present and move it forward to build a better future. Therefore culture is constantly changing and remolding itself.

We could better ask the question of "what is truely European ?" Obviously his language and linear thought process and his history of death and destruction, as well as his definition of self by names and the such. These are easy things to let go of as we retrieve the essence of who and how we were and are to be from our past. We furthermore do not possess a linear thought process nor have a history of death and destruction.

Remember, we have been a certain way for millions of years before this short imposition of European destruction upon us, so there are genetic, spiritual and cultural factors about our people that have been ingrained by millions of years and will not so easily dissappear due to a few hundred years of European imposition upon us. So in as much as she gave a fairly decent analysis...it suffers from myopia in its conclusive thought process.

Brother Keita,

Undoubtably, culture is not static, its constantly evolving to suit the needs of its participants, but I think we must be aware that each culture ultimately has its point of reference, its organizing thought and ideological core. I think this is what Mama Marimba was alluding to - what are the pecularities within European cultural behavior that can be isolated as constituting a cultural statement. Throughout history, as I know you are aware, cultures have influenced and have been influenced by other cultures, however, most retain elements that can lead back to a point of origin.

Also, I have to contend with your conclusion that Black people do not think in linear terms. Of course not originally, but I think of late many of us are increasing becoming linear. It has been my experience when clarifying the position inherent within most ATRs, that the circularity of the philosophy is hard to grasp by those innoculated with Western thought. As we readily accept and legitimized Western education as the preferred mode of teaching, thinking and learning, we become submerged in the method of linear reasoning. I remember one of the first lessons from my first godfather in the ATRs was that I need to stop intellectualizing everything. I was in college at the time and he said, "I know it might be hard since you are in school, but everything doesn't need to be intellectualized." He made this statement in regards to the symbolic meanings contained in my dreams. I wanted everything to make sense from a linear literal point of view. Indeed, by becoming involved in the ATRs I had to drop many things and it was/still is difficult. Alot of the concepts involved went against my logic and questioned my rationale of things. I was introduced to a new way of processing information. (I grew up partially a small-community country Southern boy with a grandmother that was 2 generations out of slavery and that practiced rootwork)

Indeed, many of the things concerning culture are genetic, however, without the active transmission of culture, values included, to future generations, the essential meanings can eventually become lost. The habits and rituals then become empty shells of their former selves and may include interpretations and explanations originating from different cultures. I noticed this phenomena with my wife, who's from Ghana. She explained a ceremony to me, that although originally traditional was conveyed in explicitly Christian terms and philosophy. Another "ritual", she admitted she didn't know the meaning for, except "that is just what Africans did." I think this is why many cultures actively seek to ensure their traditions will be retained by their prosperity via the guidance of elders and educational institutions.

P.S. As far as I can tell, the "jumping the broom" ritual could have its origins, at least partly, with the orisha Oya. Oya, the orisha of change and transformation, is represented by a broom. Marriage represents indeed a change and transformation in life.

Young Black men would pour out "brew", liquor, for their dead homies which many said was taken from Cooley High. However, as many know, libations were poured to the ancestors. The ritual and concept, in part, were kept, as "dead homies" replaced ancestors and "egun". Essentially Afrikan, but I seriously doubt these individuals would pour libations to their ancestors. How I know because I've done it and never ever thought about doing for my ancestors. My ancestors were DEAD. My homies were dead, but as solace for a bereaved soul, I did it because I didn't want to bear the reality of their death.

I guess certain things, folkways, can be genetically inspired, but not always necessarily culturally informed.

My two cents, no scholar or what-not,
Blackbird

Thanks for the lesson here. I have thought this question often times through about being Puerto Rican. There are certain things that I think are biologically-instilled. There are other things that are learned. When I was young, I always felt that because I was born here, I would never be Puerto Rican enough. I sought out all the things I thought were part of my culture. I tried to dance Salsa, but ended up doing something closer to hip-hop. I tried speaking Spanish, but ended up in English. I thought I had to go to every Puerto Rican parade to be really considered down with my Puerto Rican people. Even though I loved my mom's cooking, I enjoyed Thai, Chinese, Soul, Italian, etc. My motivation to fortify my identity was simply because I hated being called a "Sorta Rican". The realization then hit me that all the things I am IS my culture. Amalgamated as it is, it is still a part of me.

As a group of people brought here by a conquering Nation, I understand what it means and how important it is to define yourself amidst all the other groups- particularly when your own Nation is conquered. Sort of like when they say the Tainos all died out. They didn't. Their culture was absorbed. I was always taught in Puerto Rican Studies classes to take the numbers recorded by Spanish & American census-takers with a grain of salt for it was a fiasco of a process that sought to "whiten-and-tighten" the population and make us appear less-African for fear of a repeat rebellion like in Santo Domingo (and in the case of the U.S.- for eventual annexation into the Union as a "White state"). The Tainos and the Africans were absorbed by the conquering Nation (as in the case of the U.S. government's invasion of our land). Spanish was then adopted as a way of life, mode and dress... most of it, if not all, was forced upon us by the conqueror Nation. After 1898, the US imported many things through capitalist ventures and advertising (through radio in the 1920's). It didn't mean that there weren't still elements that remained from those two cultures. It just means that they were re-packaged into a newer identity which reflected our current situation. Puerto Ricans finally found this identity by 1868 when they had an insurrection against Spain ("Grito de Lares") which paralleled her sister island of Cuba ("Grito de Yara"). It was time to get rid of Spain from the picture and form ourselves as a people. Given the small-ness of the island, too many mixed marriages (whether forced or with consent) made it hard to pick apart these color-lines. We still celebrate all apects of it... sometimes we celebrate individual events as distinctly African or distinctly Native, but all of it is Puerto Rican.

Later on in life, I started to realize that solidarity is unity and that, while I am there if my people call, I am still there for myself. Personal identity is where you begin to define... loyalty comes from your affiliation with people who share common denominators- whether they be biological or community-wyse. I am first ME and then I am there for others.

All my peeps get props at my ancestral shrine.

BTW- I think new forms of music such as Reggaeton (which blends Reggae with traditional Bomba rhythms) are putting us back in our Caribbean context. Many Puerto Ricans are growing tired of the political chaos that we have been put in for the sake of a Nation that never accepts us and are finally waking up (I think...lol) to the fact that we might JUST lose ourselves as a Nation. We would never think of attacking Cuba as our histories are so closely intertwined throughtout the last 5 centuries. The more we define ourselves, the closer we get to actual freedom. We won't fight our own brothers and sisters... Cubans or African-Americans. It isn't our cultural M.O. to do so.

"Culture exists to address the needs of a people. Every group has needs unique unto themselves."
Brother Blackbird,

Thanks, for sharing:

I absolutely agree with your statement above. Therefore questions (that you may share your wisdom with us) arise:

What are the "UNIQUE NEEDS," of black/African-Americans as a COLLECTIVE nation-in-a-nation?

What makes our "needs" UNIQUE?

Has black/African-American's, PRODUCED a CULTURAL EXPRESSION that indeed, "ADDRESSES" our NEEDS, as a people and as a "nation-in-a-nation"?

Or, have we, as a COLLECTIVE, nation-in-a-nation, just tried to ASSIMILATE the dominate culture of AMERICANISM, that we find ourselves in, simply as a matter of SURVIVAL?

Coming out of the of the 50's and 60's black/African consciousness movement of "I'm black and I'm proud," characterized by the "CULTURAL" expression of wearing African garb (the disheki), the Afro hair, black studies courses, and cultural events. However, by the middle 70's to get the JOB, through "ASSIMILATION" for the sake of SURVIVAL, the "CULTURAL" expression of the "Natural/Afro" hair disappeared along with the disheki.

Therefore, our NEED to SURVIVE, through ASSIMILATION, we have also assimilated and absorbed the CULTURE of AMERICANISM, over our natural genetic/DNA cultural expression.

Yes, there are a few of us who have really internalized black/African consciousness, but because of the need for survival/assimilation, for the most part, the collective majority of our people have no knowledge of our African CULTURE since coming here over 400 years ago, and are trying to just survive through acceptance and assimilation.

"Spanish was then adopted as a way of life, mode and dress... most of it, if not all, was forced upon us by the conqueror Nation.

After 1898, the US imported many things through capitalist ventures and advertising (through radio in the 1920's).

It didn't mean that there weren't still elements that remained from those two cultures. It just means that they were re-packaged into a newer identity which reflected our current situation. "

Brother dadachango69, thanks for the good history lesson.

Your, statement above is a perfect example of what Blackbird, pointed out,
" . . . culture is not static, its constantly evolving to suit the needs of its participants . . ."

I visited Puerto Rico, on 2 occasions and (only mention it to say how) I was "astounded" by how modern, and built up that island has become. I flew in at night and from the plane, looking at all the lights, you would think you were flying into New York. And the modern highways were just mind-blowing. Puerto Rican is a wonderful place and the wildlife, natural forest preserve was unbelievable; I loved it. I could not believe that forest preserve has not been talked about; you hear no mention of it; unbelievable. And walking through that historic fort, you can just imagine how it was and what went on, and why it was statically there. Yes, visiting there, you can see exactly what you describe in your post.

Blackbird, tremendous and thought-provoking post(s), brother!!!

DadaChango69, inspiring and profound thoughts on inter-cultural unity, and self-definition, pa!

Blackbird, you opening up pandora's box by pointing out these cultural traditions which we practice without consciousness of their origin and cultural significance, bruh(smile!) Like you, I am no scholar, but I am intrigued by these things, because, frankly, I want to know for a certainty what is African retentive among Africans of the United States, and I want to know it's significance to our ancestors and ourselves. We need to know so that we can teach our children, as you said, for posterity sake.

Unlike our babies, those of us who are 40-something and above, learned certain African Cultural Retentions through the church, and the general culture. It seems that the Civil Rights Movement, and the quickening pace of technological advancement, has had a De-Africanizing effect on our youth, who get their cues about what it is to be Black from the White Man's boob tube(SMILE!) In effect, they have perfected a way in which to transmit all of their stereotypes about us, and there is no filter through which we can neutralize those images and messages... That's why a Culture Forum would be great, because it would give Kannte, Keita, Blackbird, DadaChango, and Sista pdiane, the platform to teach us all the significance of retaining our essence...

One last little item for me, BlackBird, is I don't necessarily believe Culture is genetic, because I see too many Africans who walk, talk, and act European, and absolutely have no connection to our community... I see Tiger Woods, who's Black, but acts more Asian and European, and is proud of it(smile!) I see Clarence Thomas and Colin Powell and Condi Rice, talking about how she listens to Led Zeppelin when she does her work outs(Duh!) Yep, it is all about what you are taught, but more importantly, what you retain and maintain...

I've got a grand niece and nephew who are twins... Their father, my nephew, is African American, who went to catholic school, and for the longest was into that Led Zeppelin/Alice Cooper stuff, until he found Rap and Hiphop in highschool... Their mother is an African Dominican woman, and the children are truly multicultural, in that they listen to the merengue and the hiphop, when they're with mama, and when they come to visit my sister(Grandma), I see them playing all of these Gospel videos, and clapping and singing along(smile!) They speak a blend of hip Black/so-called standard english, and my niece is fully multi-lingual - the female facility with language and communications...(Genetic???)

Culture is born with us, but not necessarily born IN us... That is my take...

Peace!
ISAIAH

"What makes our "needs" UNIQUE?"
Our psycho-social and socio-economic status as perpetual pariahs standing on the periphery of American society... Our language(s), religions, and social institutions destroyed for the purpose of exerting greater control over our minds, have led to the self-determining impulse in African Americans, to creatively modify and transform what was "given"/thrown at us(smile!) As a result, the removal of the drum does not translate into removal of RHYTHM, but it's transmutation to other instruments, hence the percussive drive in Gospel, Jazz and Rhythm&Blues... The removal of the religion does not translate into removal of spiritual fervor/Spirit Posssession, Call&Response, and masterful oratory...



"Has black/African-American's, PRODUCED a CULTURAL EXPRESSION that indeed, "ADDRESSES" our NEEDS, as a people and as a "nation-in-a-nation"?"

Kannte, I must admit that I don't understand this question, and would need you to more specific. I have always thought that the Blues, Gospel, Jazz, R&B, Soul, HipHop are reflections of cultural expression, and accordingly, met our needs in their time and place... Some may think this rather superficial, but I think that is because they've not done enough research to understand the wholistic significance that these musical traditions convey to ourselves and the world - which is quite another discussion about African Americans... How much do we even value our culture, and its significance to us and the world???


Or, have we, as a COLLECTIVE, nation-in-a-nation, just tried to ASSIMILATE the dominate culture of AMERICANISM, that we find ourselves in, simply as a matter of SURVIVAL?

Both, brother Kannte, in my humble opinion... We have clearly had to make adjustments to the dominant "culture", which is a misnomer if ever there was one... It is as if our culture is the mighty ocean that sits below the mountain, it's power carving out it's imprint in that mountain(smile!) So much of what Europeans contend is THEIR culture is what they've appropriated from OUR culture... I am always shaking my head at the "little" subtle appropriations, such as "Cajun Gumbo."
Really??? "Ray Charles was an American Original." Really??? What about Tupac and Biggie - weren't they Americans, and quite original in what they did???(smile!) O.K., enough of my peeves, brother Kannte... Greeat Questions, by the way!

Peace!
Isaiah

I wonder if it is out of place. but what exactly is african american culture? I have never seen anyone able to explain what it is, what the customs consist of etc. do not get me wrong i am not implying black americans have no culture i am just wondering what it is?

Brother Oba, before you get jumped on, screamt on, and rained upon, let me just say that your question is legitimate(smile!)

I might, also, ask what is African Culture, since there is really no such thing as a homogenous African Culture... The African continent comprises many different cultures, and sub-cultures, and African American Culture is no different... For example, while some things, such as diet, may be quite similar, customs, as in the Urban North and Semi-rural South, may differ greatly...

As has been pointed out on this thread, by brother Blackbird, culture is in constant change and flux, to meet the needs of the group and community, but African Americans do have customs, even when those customs have not being explained as customs on an intellectual level... An example of what I am talking about is, the manner in which African American men greet one another, with hugs, and creative handshakes... This activity may not have been defined in this way, but it is customary. It is, in fact, so customary that it has been adopted and appropriated by the larger culture, as well as, other cultures... When you watch that football or basketball game, and see folk high-fiving, and creatively greeting one another, ask yourself where did that originate???

There are other customs, such as that portrayed in films, such as barbershop, a favorite meeting spot of Black men, as well as, the Beauty parlor for Black Women... Customs are simply things which are done customarily, and do not have to be seen or defined as something elaborate and profound in meaning...

Of course, I have already mentioned the various genres of music brought to birth by African Americans, and there are many more dances which have been created to dance to that library of music... We, too, have a strong literary tradition in America, as well as, a stupendous impact on language and colorful speech, which differs from region to region... Black Chicagoans do not talk like Black Los Angelenos, or Black Atlantans... Each tailors their speech and lexicon to meet their environments...

But the real kicker in my opinion, brother Oba, is how other Diasporan Africans have influenced African American culture with their foods, speech, lexicon/patwa/patois, styles of dance, styles of dress, styles of music... In point of fact, the term African American as for sole use by AFricans born in the United States - I feel - is totally erroneous, as all of the Caribbean, South and Central America is America(smile!)... Hope that I have helped to begin the process of explaining your question, brother Oba...

Peace!
ISAIAH

In any event, I wish that there were a forum entirely dedicated to CULTURE at Destee's, because we stand to learn a great deal about the true essence of African people by looking THERE...

Brother Isaiah, thank you for posting such powerful and informative messages here. Thank you too Brother Kannte for raising some very important issues and questions regarding our culture.

Brother Isaiah, in reference to your above quote, can you tell us more about why you think a separate forum should be designated for discussions on "culture"? Also, what is it specifically about our culture that can't be discussed in other currently existing forums, i.e., Panafrican Forum? And finally, as you and others think about my questions, please tell us how you would insure that only African/African American culture(s) and not others would be the primary focus of this forum? (If in fact, that's what you intend for it to.)

What are you thoughts?

Queenie :spinstar:

P.S. Seeing as you are becoming such a valuable asset to this community relative to our discussions, when do you plan on becoming a PREMIUM MEMBER? :)

"Brother Isaiah, in reference to your above quote, can you tell us more about why you think a separate forum should be designated for discussions on "culture"? Also, what is it specifically about our culture that can't be discussed in other currently existing forums, i.e., Panafrican Forum? And finally, as you and others think about my questions, please tell us how you would insure that only African/African American culture(s) and not others would be the primary focus of this forum? (If in fact, that's what you intend for it to.)

What are you thoughts?

Queenie

P.S. Seeing as you are becoming such a valuable asset to this community relative to our discussions, when do you plan on becoming a PREMIUM MEMBER?"

Sister Queenie, how're you doing?! Sorry I took so long to respond to your questions, but didn't see it initially..

In answer to your last question, I've taken down the information for where my check should be sent, and will send it posthaste(smile!) I love the discussions here, and anything I can contribute to the perpetuation of the great things that happen on this dial, I'll do...plain and simple.

Sista Queenie, Culture is discussed on other forums, and as well it should be... My desire to see a culture forum is borne out of an experience I had some years ago at a Diversity forum sponsored by my union and employers. There was a sister there who, after listening to many of those in attendance give their presentations of their various questions, arose to assert that she had No Culture, that her Culture was American, that other's cultures seemed so much more exciting that American Culture... A bunch of brothers and sisters were stunned and embarrassed by her comments, and went on to explain to her that Jazz/Blues/Gospel and sweet potata pies come outta our culture(smile!)

Me, well, I was neither stunned nor embarrassed... I was just pissed off that we live in a country that seeks to perpetuate the mindset expressed by our sista... I didn't blame her - though she is responsible for her own education - I blamed her parents, and the school system that produces that kinda thinking by appropriating things African American, and oops, refuses to give us credit...

I see such a forum, Sista Queenie, as a means to reclaiming our cultural copyrights on things which are of our unique creation in this hemisphere, and on the continent of Africa, through the research of scholars and non-scholars at this board. This is important not only to eradicate the kinds of incidents I pointed out up above, but a means of explaining for the present and posterity, the beautiful continuum of African Culture(s) as the wellspring and resource that has enabled us to transcend and triumph over all of the persecution put upon us over the centuries... Our Culture tells me that it is strong and resilent, and resistant to the encroachments and incursions of those who first assaulted it unmercifully, and now do everything in their power to steal and immerse, and tap into, a power which is irresistible to them... The culture, as I said, reflects the folk who made it, and it is strong, resilient, resourceful, transcendent, and trimphant... Such a resource to a people in pain should never be neglected by treating it as a "side order."(smile!)


Pan Africanism and AfroCentrism are philosophical and academy-based theories, which are about 150 years old, tops... I think Martin Delaney and Henry McNeal Turner were among the first Africans in the United States to give great voice to this philosophy, and they've been followed along by a series of great men and women of African descent from around the world, but I don't believe Pan Africanism actually speaks definitively to culture. It is a philosophy that seeks to bring us all under an umbrella of brotherly and sisterly unity, but does not delve that deeply into our individual cultural imperatives...

Once again, our people in Cuba, Haiti, Brazil, Puerto Rico, and Mississippi developed their own cultural imperatives to meet their peculiar environments. They clung tenaciously to the African elements, while incorporating many Indigenous and European elements to one degree or another. We are not the same, but we are similar, and as a result Pan Africanism has a devil of a time recruiting us to it's busom... I think a thorough review of those things that give us sameness would tend to bring us under that Pan African flag... Knowing that we do have connections beyond our skin tones and complexions, would tend to enable us to SEE that Pan African vision... Learning from one another why we Rhumba, Samba, RaRa, and HolyGhost Dance has given me a perspective on my African Cuban, African Brazilian, and Haitian brethren that enables me to move in their circles like and a fellow African, and not an outsider, and it is beautiful... In my city, where the African Cuban bembes and Santeria ceremonies are open to the invited, I have seen the paralells between their ritual, and those I saw coming up in the African American Holiness Church - Believe that!(smile!) I have seen the children crying, as I once did, at the sound and fury of African-style percussion, drumming, and song...(smile!) God knows, African people raise the roof with joyful sound in our religious institutions...

Finally, African people are ever returning to that wellspring, that ubiquitous resource called African Culture... From Blues to HipHop, there's nothing new under the sun, just a modification to meet the needs of the user, the "creator..." It is always there for us, we just need to tap into it... When the great D.J., Al Benson first started his broadcasting career in Chicago, paying for his own on-air time, he spoke the language of his fellow transplanted Mississippians, rhymingh while he played his "platters", and talking to the people in the language he knew they'd understand... His ratings, which back then were determined exclusively by advertising dollars, shot throught the skies, and his legend traveled all over the United States, and produced a lot of legendary pioneers for Black Radio... They all kicked it in that rhyming, fast-paced Am radio style which Al Benson "created"(heard on the streets of Chi-Town), and in time, some, like Frankie Crocker here in New York, improved on that style with a slick, smooth, x-rated delivery that presaged the HipHop style we hear today... We are ever drawing upon our culture to create, and a Culture forum is a means of explaining the evolution of things in our culture...

Sista Queenie, the last thing I would do is place a limit on what could be posted in the Culture forum... Anything of value on the African and African Diasporic Culture tip would be welcome...

Peace!
Isaiah

Greetings Brother Isaiah. Thank you for asking about my well-being. I'm doing very well and hope that you are the same. I am also thankful to you for responding favorably to my question about becoming a Premium Member. It proves what I had already sensed about you--you are a man of integrity and commitment and we are extremely fortunate to have you here with us. :thanks:

In terms of your explanation about why you think it would be good to have a forum on "culture", you made a powerful statement in favor of it. I have shared this information with my team members to consider but we would also like to know what other members think of this idea as well.

Queenie :spinstar:

oh my gosh ... this is some deep stuff ... :eeek: ... and i've got to read it all again!

but i have a question, trying to bring this down to my level a little bit more ...

since i know yall aint try'n ta leave a Sister out ... :wink:

but i was thinking about culture and wondering ...

Is our respect for our elders a part of our culture?

If you've noticed, White folk don't seem to have a great respect for their elders or for getting old(er) ... they seem to fear it even ... doing all they can to avoid it. They have historically been the ones to "throw their old folk away" ... while we have historically done the opposite.

I realize we are becoming more like them, but even with that, there is still this significant difference between them and us, in my opinion.

Would this be our culture?

I guess i'm looking for very distinct (and everyday) differences between us and them, that would be considered "cultural."

Please forgive if i'm way off track (or overlooked distinct differences already mentioned).

:heart:

Destee

Greetings, Destee!


"Is our respect for our elders a part of our culture?


If you've noticed, White folk don't seem to have a great respect for their elders or for getting old(er) ... they seem to fear it even ... doing all they can to avoid it. They have historically been the ones to "throw their old folk away" ... while we have historically done the opposite.

I realize we are becoming more like them, but even with that, there is still this significant difference between them and us, in my opinion.

Would this be our culture?"

The answer to your question would be an unequivocable YES! The respect of the Elder in African, as well as, Asian societies is tied to both groups long histories on the planet... The respect of knowledge, wisdom, and understanding contained in the minds of the elder is an academic, pragmatic, and proven entity, thus these societies have utilized those elements to chart, plan, and build their civilizations. Clearly, our ancestors brought this cultural element with them when they were brought to this hemisphere, and it stayed consistent even into the 1960's when I was growing up.

Destee, you are right, we have become more like the devil, because we are working in jobs where the health insurance policies allow us to put our grandmother in a nursing home, out of sight, and out of mind. We have adopted the ways of the White Man without asking any questions as to the impact it will have on us, and our elderly... My family faced this issue with our mother in 1996... She had both legs amputated due to diabetes, and her heart was in terrible condition. We needed one of us to watch her at all times, but all of us were working people... We decided to employ a nurse full-time until we could arrive home to care for her ourselves... It was our only option considering how we had been raised... It was a point of pride not to break with that tradition, and thank God, we did not.

In some other instances, the finances are quite different... The family is not as large as mine, and if it is, folk have their problems, issues, and agendas, and cannot get on the same page about how to expedite such matters... It means the elder must suffer...

Destee, I know of a nursing home that is run by a church here, and I am told the services to the elderly are tremendous. I guess it may not be as problematic to put one's elders in such an institution if one has to... I don't know... But respect of Elders is deeply ingrained in our culture - or was at one time...

Peace!
Isaiah

http://www.freedomroad.org/milmatters_2_blackops.html

Tremendous article on Blacks in the Military, and how our socio-cultural interactions with one another reinforce the white man's mistrust of us...(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

Though this article cannot do justice to this tradition, which has been known as the Dozens, and is a close relative of Rap, it comes as a pretty fair dissertation on the subject, as well it comes with a fine bibliography on the subject matter...



http://www.louisianafolklife.org/LT/Articles_Essays/creole_art_toast_tradition.html

Note: I will probably use this thread to bring more items of interest about African American and African Diasporan Culture in the near present and future, so look out, and enjoy...

Peace!
Isaiah

Kannte, thank you for bringing this topic to the board, because it actually deserves a forum unto itself!

In any event, I wish that there were a forum entirely dedicated to CULTURE at Destee's ...

Hi Brother Isaiah ... requests for new forums are usually met with some reluctance as we have so many already, and they've all been established so that most any topic could be discussed within at least one of them.

But since you've posted this request ... oh my goodness ... "culture" has done all but visited me in my dreams, asking for her own place at the table!

It's amazing how much we can learn from each other sharing in an environment such as this. You'd think i'd no longer be surprised at the amount of knowledge and wisdom shared, but it has not ceased to amaze me.

This thread is relatively young and when it was first posted, i couldn't wrap my mind around "culture" ... when you first made the request for the forum, i still didn't get it ... Sister Queenie initiated a discussion between the Mods regarding your request and i encouraged us to go through the normal routine of determining if we really needed a separate place just for culture ... but since that short time ... culture has shown me how lacking she is amongst our people and that it could very well be as you said, the number one reason we are like we are ... and sadly, that's because she's nowhere in the picture!

Stripped of her so many years ago, replaced by some other culture that was not our own ... and probably wasn't the property of those who gave it to us ... we have stumbled along trying to live, adjust, understand, and make better the results of something totally foreign to us ... like a fish living out of water. While it would be impossible for a fish to do this, we have done it, but not without great injury. It's a wonder we still live and breathe in this country with even a hint of our right minds.

All of this to say, thank you for the suggestion! Thank you Brother Kannte for starting this thread and bringing culture to my mind! I'm quite hopeful regarding what we may learn together ... and unlearn! ... regarding culture.

I'll be creating our new Culture Forum soon, and moving this thread to it.

We are blessed to have each other. Thank you for being here.

:heart:

Destee