Cosby continues to criticize Blacks...but from what little I heard, not just poor Blacks, but Blacks in general, and specifically Black men in general.

Did anyone hear his speech or do you have the full text of his speeach and if so, what do you think? If you have the text of his speech, please post excerpts of it here being careful not to violate copyright laws or post the link where it can be found.

It's obvious that Mr. Cosby has a message that he wants to convey. I'm questioning though why he has chosen this method. I would like to know what other methods he has tried before he decided to take his message to anyone who would listen?

It seems that he's deliberately trying to get a reaction from the Black community which we know it will, but will the energy spent debating and arguing about what Cosby has done, work FOR us or AGAINST us?

What IMPACT do you think Mr. Cosby's public comments will have on the Black community as a whole, and could it feed the stereotypes society has about us already and should we care what others think of us?

I would really like to know what solutions Mr. Cosby includes in his messages, what he does personally himself to help other than give money away and show us what he knows about Black people at the grassroots level and their everyday struggles.

That's it for now, looking for some more constructive discussion on this public issue.

Queenie :spinstar:

Cosby continues to criticize Blacks...but from what little I heard, not just poor Blacks, but Blacks in general, and specifically Black men in general.

Did anyone hear his speech or do you have the full text of his speeach and if so, what do you think? If you have the text of his speech, please post excerpts of it here being careful not to violate copyright laws or post the link where it can be found.

It's obvious that Mr. Cosby has a message that he wants to convey. I'm questioning though why he has chosen this method. I would like to know what other methods he has tried before he decided to take his message to anyone who would listen?

It seems that he's deliberately trying to get a reaction from the Black community which we know it will, but will the energy spent debating and arguing about what Cosby has done, work FOR us or AGAINST us?

What IMPACT do you think Mr. Cosby's public comments will have on the Black community as a whole, and could it feed the stereotypes society has about us already and should we care what others think of us?

I would really like to know what solutions Mr. Cosby includes in his messages, what he does personally himself to help other than give money away and show us what he knows about Black people at the grassroots level and their everyday struggles.

That's it for now, looking for some more constructive discussion on this public issue.

Queenie :spinstar:


He's saying the same things he said in his first speech and in the interviews in between. It's going to get old real quick to the point of him creating for himself a persona of someone that's always criticizing and has nothing positive to say about the black community. :yawn:

If you have the text of his speech, please post excerpts of it here being

"Bill Cosby and his wife, Camille, gave $20 million to Spelman College in Atlanta in 1988. We here at Destee try to deal in TRUTH, raw truth, undiluted truth. Dr. Cosby to some degree is speaking the truth regarding some of our behavior as a people, which if we are honest we can bear witness to also. What Dr. Cosby is saying is about the same that Minister Farrakhan would say, its just that at least with someone like Min. Farrakhan saying these things we know they are coming from someone who LOVE'S US and would give their LIFE for us, and who has, in fact.

Cosby said in an address before Jesse Jackson's 33rd Annual Rainbow/PUSH Coalition conference in Chicago,

"It is almost analgesic to talk about what the white man is doing against us, and it keeps a person frozen in their seat. It keeps you frozen in your hole that you are sitting in to point up and say, 'That's the reason why I am here.' We need to stop this . . ."

"There is a time, ladies and gentlemen, when we have to turn the mirror around," he told the crowd of 500 people at the Sheraton hotel.

"I couldn't care less about what white people think about me at this time," he said to loud applause.

"Let them talk! What are they saying that is different from what their grandfather said? What are they doing or trying to do us that their grandfathers didn't try to do to us? But what is different is what we are doing to ourselves," Cosby said.

"The housing project was set up for you to move in, move up, and move out," he said.

Being poor had a different meaning to older generations, according to Cosby.

"If you go up to people -- when you ask them and you say, 'Were you poor?' they would say, 'No, no, our parents were broke, but we were not poor.' There was a spirit in that house," he explained.

His message to black people who say he's exposing the "dirty laundry" of the black community was blunt.

"Let me tell you something, your dirty laundry gets out of school at 2:30 every day. It's cursing and calling each other '******' as they're walk up and down the street. They think they hip -- can't read, can't write-50 percent of them," he said.

Cosby stressed the importance of education and proper parenting.

"The more you invest in that child, the more you are not going to let some CD tell your child how to curse and how to say the world '******.' This is an accepted word. You are so hip with '******,' but you can't even spell it," an impassioned Cosby lamented

Whatever happened to 'Black is beautiful?' Well, it was replaced with '****** please,'" he said to laughter.

"Education, ladies and gentleman, respect the elderly, respect for yourselves, respect for others," Cosby said.

"These young girls have no business having sex!" he emphasized as the crowd clapped approvingly.

"We got too many young girls who don't know how to parent, turning themselves into parents. Ladies and gentlemen, our little eight-year-old boys, nine-year-old boys, having erections and only acting out that which they see and hear on some CD. They're acting that out and they don't know the damage that they are doing when they rape some little girl nine years old and what they have done to her whole life. It's time to stop!" an animated Cosby said.

Cosby also took on the pop culture of music, movies and television.

"When you put on a record, and that record is yelling '****** this' and '****** that' and cursing all over the thing and you got your little six year old and seven year old sitting in the back seat of the car-- those children hear that. And I am telling you when you put the CD on and then you get up and dance to it -- What are you saying to your children?" he asked.

"Eight-year-old, nine-year-old boys have no business teaming up to rape a nine-year or ten-year-old girl. And if it's in that TV set, don't bring into your home, if it's on your record player, don't bring it in your home," he said.

"We are going to call each other names of ugliness. Comedians coming on TV [saying] 'I am so ugly, you are ugly, yuck, yuck.' That's all minstrel show stuff. I am tired of it," he continued.

"I am talking about profanity. I am talking about cursing at each other like it's something hip, like it's something that's right. I am talking about people calling each other a name that there are still -- if DNA goes to the Mississippi River-- you are gong to find African blood in there, dead from being called ****** and then hacking them," he added.

Sounding like a motivational preacher at times, Cosby even joked "I can just talk for 12 hours on this and not have a collection."

'Taken care of at home'

Parents have to take charge of their children as part of a "parent power" plan, according to Cosby.

"You going to tell me that you are going to drop out of school? You are going to tell me that you are going to steal from a store? These things need to be taken care of in the home," he said to applause.

"Where did we get so comfortable -- when and who gave us the word that said, 'You don't need to know how to read and write again?'" Cosby asked.

"Before you get to the point where you say, 'I can't do nothing with them,' I am just saying, 'Do something with them,'" he added.

Today's generation of African-American youth does not appreciate or understand the sacrifices of its elders, Cosby said.

"Understand, your children have to know where you came from. And they have to know about those people hanging [during the civil rights struggles] and how when they did hang them on a Sunday, the theme song was "Amazing Grace." That is what they sang when the bodies were hanging. Your children don't know that, your grandchildren don't know it," he said.

"Ladies and gentlemen, it hurts, it hurts, because these children don't know about their poor mothers and fathers, they don't know about how there was no done deal [regarding the civil rights struggle]," he explained.

Too many African-Americans are not motivated to better their life, Cosby said.

"The analgesic of cursing and profanity and standing around and just letting the day go by and wake up the next morning to start your next day of moving this day along -- you'll have no picture that is large enough to take you out of where you going," he said.

'Going nowhere'

Cosby focused much of his attention on African-American youth.

"They put themselves on the train, you know, the buses, and they don't even care what color or what age somebody else is, it's about them and their cursing and grabbing each other and laughing and giggling and they're going nowhere. Their book bags are very, very thin," he added.

Cosby also pleaded with black men to improve their ways.

"Young men and old men, you've gotta stop beating up your women because you didn't find a job, because you didn't want to get an education and now you are [earning] minimum wage. You should have thought more of yourself when you were in high school," he said.

"When you beat up your woman, when you beat up your wife, those little children are watching, it's almost irreparable, you can't get it back what you've done to that child," he added.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=%5CSpecialReports%5Car chive%5C200407%5CSPE20040702a.html

Thank you Brother Kannte for posting the text of Cosby's latest mantra. I love your opening statement too, by the way.

Is this a debatable issue or do we all agree with the opinion being expressed by Cosby?

You know, I just had a thought after I posted this and decided to come back and add to my statement.

Maybe Cosby needs to be challenged to a DEBATE on the issues he's raising so that he's given the opportunity to defend his statements by offering some substantive proof to support his allegations. Presidential candidates debate their issues, why not Cosby who seems to be setting himself up as THE spokesperson for Black people. What is Farrakhan's stand on Cosby's position? Anyone know? What does Sharpton say in response to Cosby's statements? We know the NAACP will support him...or do we know that? Should we sit in silence and allow Cosby to create a one-sided voice on these issues or should we remain silent and not wash our "dirty laundry" in public?

Queenie :spinstar:

Dr. Cosby motivated me. Right after I read his statement, I pulled off my boxing gloves, and left my wife alone....Seriously, Mr. Cosby once again is making sweeping generalities. Particularly when it comes to domestic violence, because that sickness exist in all races. Just like the first time, I agree with many things he said, but his delivery is horrible. For an educated person, he doesn't have any excuse for that.

his statements are equivelent to a 5 carat ring...wrapped in soiled newspaper...
one love
khasm

his statements are equivelent to a 5 carat ring...wrapped in soiled newspaper...
one love
khasm
cosby is spewig words of hate, his words will divide not unify.

has anyone known of Cosby criticizing the White community? for anything?

Greetings All,

Mr. Cosby and others of his ilk upset me very much. Why? I'm a young man and I'm tired of TALK, no matter who is doing it. Where were the solutions? He has so much concern but I never seen of late, Mr. Cobsy and any other person critique the problems and dysfunctions within the Black community and then say, "To address these needs, myself or a colleague has create some organization, etc., and if you're interested, you can logon to www.helpingcreatestrongfamilies.com"

I'm tired of preaching. Preaching gets us no where. Bill is only preaching to the choir and those are the only ones that will receive it. Many Black people actually don't know where to begin in changing their situation. We haven't changed it yet, including Mr. Cosby. Actually is he in any position to throw stones?

On a positive note, here in Shreveport, some sistas have created a group called "Sistas of a Lost Nation" and they are pinpointing one housing project locally to help sistas with community service requirements for residency. Some of their areas will be introducing the sistas to proper health and nutrition, parenting, budgeting, relationship skills, employment and apprenticeships and other essentials. These sistas efforts are being funded from the pocket, which ain't much, but since Bill is concerned where is his support?

Blackbird

I think Bill Cosby makes some good points by what he says, but he is doing it in a very messy way. I mean, to me it looks like he's doing a song and dance for white folks. It looks like he's saying to them "look , I'm the one black person with a brain, out of millions". He should talk to us brothas and sistas about his concerns...not the white media. He definately should not do it in the way that he's doing it. It makes us look like none of us are worth anything. Like I said, he makes SOME good points, but they are very general, and the same points can ge brought up about other races as well.

Let's not fool yourself Bill Cosby....you DO care what white folks think of you. You just don't care how balck folks see you anymore, or you'd be sending your message with concern instead of distain.

Whew, I was tossed while reading those excerpts, brothers and sisters! I gotta admit that I related to a LOT of what Cosby said there, because the school he came from, I came from there, too... The school that was intolerant of the use of the N-word, and cursing and cussing in public, intolerant of disrespect of the elders; the school that valued education, and being able to articulate ourselves well - even as we maintained that soulful versatility and connection to the colloquial language of our community...

He's right, we DO air our dirty laundry all over the place, from the ridiculous sitcoms we watch religiously, to all of the foul language we indiscriminately use in the streets, and in the so-called music we listen to. Man, I've seen scenes that reminded me of Frederick Douglass's words in his Fourth of July speech:deeds that would shame a nation of savages. I hate to say that about my people, but what is worse is that it is true. Last week, while trying to purchase shoes for my granddaughter, I walked into a store to find them playing a cd whose artist I don't even care to know, cursing every other word. I walked out, but not before I told the manager, sarcastically, 'I see you're in business to be hip, not make no money...'

Granted, I riffed on Cosby last time, and that was because he stereotyped folks... I still have some basic problems with his style of delivery, and the fact that, as has been already been mentioned in this thread, he is, programmatically, doing nothing to ameliorate the problems which he talked about... But I've got my own gripes about some behaviour patterns in our communities, and that's why I can identify with the sentiments he expressed, if not the words... I think everyone of us has those gripes, and have expressed them at one time or another... Like I said to Mr. Blak in the HipHop Effects on Young Minds thread, we must stop being defensive about everything, permissive about everything, and face-down our communal issues if we are to eradicate some of the things that we know should be addressed... I sincerely think that if I've got cancer, and I know I need to go see a doctor about it, and do not, then I am being a coward, and a self-hating coward at that...

Like every other community in the United States and the world, we have our problems... Columbine and those White suburb communities where their children build bombs in the basement, and collect caches of weapons for the express purpose of murdering their enemies, and school bullies, have their problems... Yeah, I know that it is always the problems of lower-economic African Americans and Latinos that are always trotted to the forefront to be exposed to the world, but that doesn't mean we bemoan that fact only, and then go back to bidness as usual... I think we need to deal with this on all fronts, and that includes actually addressing OUR problems even as other folks are talking about OUR problems, and ignoring their own...

Ultimately, I think it's all about some love of self to take yourself to the doctor for a complete checkup... Taking inventory of our strengths and weakness, whether it is done publicly or privately, spoken crudely or eloquently, is healthy, and will lead to us addressing some of the issues we feel need addressing...

Peace!
Isaiah

Thank you Brother Kannte for posting the text of Cosby's latest mantra. I love your opening statement too, by the way.

Is this a debatable issue or do we all agree with the opinion being expressed by Cosby?

You know, I just had a thought after I posted this and decided to come back and add to my statement.

Maybe Cosby needs to be challenged to a DEBATE on the issues he's raising so that he's given the opportunity to defend his statements by offering some substantive proof to support his allegations. Presidential candidates debate their issues, why not Cosby who seems to be setting himself up as THE spokesperson for Black people. What is Farrakhan's stand on Cosby's position? Anyone know? What does Sharpton say in response to Cosby's statements? We know the NAACP will support him...or do we know that? Should we sit in silence and allow Cosby to create a one-sided voice on these issues or should we remain silent and not wash our "dirty laundry" in public?

Queenie :spinstar:


First of all, we will NOT wash our "dirty laundry" in public, because I cannot be pleased with the fact that all other races are sitting at their dinner tables laughing at us, thanks to the Media. And secondly, He DOES NOT speak for the African-Americans. Neither do Rev. Al Sharpton or all the other people in the Media. He was recogized as a comedian, so as long as he wants to exploit us like that, he could go back to Comedy, because I DON"T find this funny at all. If he represented us, and was the spokesperson of African-Americans, he would not humiliate us TWICE in a row. There are some black people who do GOOD things for their communities, he just does not want to recognize them.

And NNQueen...mmmmm... Remember when you said that we needed to get into organizations like the NAACP, find out who is behind the dirty work, and deal with it? Well Queenie, this is exactly why. They both need and deserve to hear our voices.

I said it before and I will say it again...... You cannot improve the Black Environment by humiliation over the Media, and we are NOT going to have a debating war over the Media against a very educated man like Bill Cosby.

I don't know about yall', but if he wants me to change, he better look me in my eyes and prove to me he means it. I mean what is he looking for out of all of this? For the Black Environment to change? If so, then SAY that, not what we do wrong. One day, we will improve as black people, but listening to him over the Media will not do it.

Another thing- we are together, who is on his side as he exploits us?

let me be frank.
Black people have some serious problems within our community.
however, if you want to see real sickness, with a capital "S", you have to visit the White folks.
we may cut and shoot at night but so far we have not traveled half way around the world to trash another country.
we did not place a GPS system into orbit for the purpose of guiding munitions into our enemy's bathroom window.
yes, bothers may act badly in the hood but for violence in it's most incandescent blooming you must peep Mr Charlie.
hey, ask the Japanese (no slouch themselves) about Mr C.

white Americans are more brainwashed and more self destructive than Black folk ever could imagine.
Dr Bill is fronting and some one needs to smack him upside the head, hard. :flame:

Brothers James and Cedric, while I don't completely agree with Cosby's ghetto tone, I dig the fact that it has stimulated some conversation among us. That is the fallout of his crude remarks, which I think did bear some painful facts about our communities...

Personally, I don't dig the fact that we have this tendency to gloss over the hard realities - whether Cosby talks about 'em or not. One of those hard realities is that one of us is more likely to die violently at the hands of another brother than we are at the hands of a White policeman, Black women are more likely to be murdered or raped at the hands of a brother than a White male, and she is far more likely to be verbally abused by a brother as well... Yes, I know that a lot of that is determined by proximity, but it is also determined by some social factors and mores that we have allowed to fester unabated for decades...

I mean, just because Cosby said it, does not mean many of these realities are untrue. I think we are defensive about this precisely because we are embarrassed, and we are embarrassed because we, unfortunately, VALUE white man's opinion of us... Listen, I realized a long time ago that White man's opinion would remain the same of us no matter if we were the perfect embodiment of humanity. His concepts about us are based on his pre-concepts about us - or his preconceived notions. So, consequently, the brother dressed in his suits is viewed little differently than the brother dressed in HipHop gear. I have zero illusions about that because that has been my experience...

I just want us Africans to handle our business, and I think Cosby wants that as well... Tough to admit that, but after I calmed down emotionally, I realized that if the cat didn't really care, why even bother to address these things publicly??? He's got mad yang, so therefore why even waste his time and energy on such a "lost cause" as lower-economic African Americans? I think that, ultimately, the guy does care, though I wish he would've taken the time to better plan and research his words... I am, however, no control freak, and I allow for folk to express themselves as they express themselves... I'm just wondering when we will move to address some of these issues without being so defensive???

Peace!
Isaiah

And NNQueen...mmmmm... Remember when you said that we needed to get into organizations like the NAACP, find out who is behind the dirty work, and deal with it? Well Queenie, this is exactly why. They both need and deserve to hear our voices.

Brother Denson, please point out where I wrote that we should join organizations such as NAACP because I honestly don't recall ever writing that and if I did, it was either a typo or I must have been having a hot flash! :devil:

I look forward to your reply!

Queenie :spinstar:

I just want us Africans to handle our business, and I think Cosby wants that as well... Tough to admit that, but after I calmed down emotionally, I realized that if the cat didn't really care, why even bother to address these things publicly??? He's got mad yang, so therefore why even waste his time and energy on such a "lost cause" as lower-economic African Americans? I think that, ultimately, the guy does care, though I wish he would've taken the time to better plan and research his words... I am, however, no control freak, and I allow for folk to express themselves as they express themselves... I'm just wondering when we will move to address some of these issues without being so defensive???

Brother Isaiah you are the voice of reason and I'll admit, you make a lot of sense. I doubt that anyone would deny that these recent comments of Cosby's are baseless. Without question, we have our issues and this is no secret among us. I would hardly say though that we are in denial about our issues because we certainly spend enough time discussing them.

For that reason I sincerely doubt that until Cosby stepped up to a microphone to tell the world what our problems are according to him, that we were sitting dormant, doing nothing and in total oblivion to what's going on in the African American community.

What I do think that Cosby is doing that upsets people probably more than what he's saying (which is nothing new) is the venue in which he has chosen to express his views. Now maybe he is doing it for the shock value, I don't know. Maybe to some, him standing in front of everyone to spell out our problems is working in terms of waking us up. That remains to be seen. But over the years I've learned, that if you aren't part of the solution then you're part of the problem.

I realize that no one is perfect and we all make mistakes. But before you stand up and point fingers at people because they're not doing what you think they should be doing, I would think it more than appropriate that the person talking should make darn sure that his/her moral character is solid and unblemished so that people wouldn't think you a hypocrit and blow you off.

I don't think that Black people want their problems swept under a rug so they can pretend nothing is wrong. We know we have issues. But there are those solid and determined members of our community who are fighting in the trenches every day to ward off evil and build positivity among us. Why doesn't Cosby acknowledge this fact along with the problems he feels he's capable of outlining.

True, each race has their set of issues including white people, but everyone knows as well as I, when it comes to Black people...we receive harsher criticism and negative scrutiny. It ain't the same.

Queenie :spinstar:

:teach: We as Black people need to learn how to take constructive critisizm. If you don't like what he is saying and don't agree, then prove him wrong. :teach:

The only difference between Cosby
and some of our lower socioeconomically
challenged brutha's and sista's in the
so-called "Hood" is that his having money
has helped to solve HIS family's problems.

No one can dispute the fact that the man is
educated, yet he has a daughter who was
addicted to drugs, a son with a learning
disability (who was later murdered),
and an "outside child", fathered
while he was creepin' around on Camille.

No one is immune to trouble or heartache,
not even Ol' Bill... So although I do agree
with some of what he has said, I think he
needs to look at his own life's events and
recognize how rough it would have been to
overcome some of these obstacles when you
are STILL in the "Hood", under-educated, and
flat broke. His sermons need a lot more
empathy, and much less scorn


Much Peace,
Akilah :spinstar:

:teach: We as Black people need to learn how to take constructive critisizm. If you don't like what he is saying and don't agree, then prove him wrong. :teach:

Sister Aisha, what makes you think that Black people don't know how to take criticism and who specifically should prove him wrong?

Queenie :spinstar:

BTW - does the fact that Cosby has a new show out have anything to do with his recent efforts to garner publicity?

posted by Akilah
No one is immune to trouble or heartache,
not even Ol' Bill... So although I do agree
with some of what he has said, I think he
needs to look at his own life's events and
recognize how rough it would have been to
overcome some of these obstacles when you
are STILL in the "Hood", under-educated, and
flat broke. His sermons need a lot more
empathy, and much less scorn

Thats what I'm talking about Akilah!

It is so easy to look from the outside and point out anothers faults. This is something that I too am guilty of from time to time, But then I put myself in anothers shoes and try to understand what is the core reason for the path they choose.

The issues that Mr.Cosby addresses is surface issues. The questions is why is there so much suffering in the low economic community.

What I see is families working hard to hold down two/three jobs. A married couple who I befriended, The husband works two jobs. His wife also works one job. But still only makes enough money to live paycheck to paycheck.
When money gets to ruff to pay the daycare provider. I'll step in and offer my assistance. When it gets ruff for me, I know I can go to them.

They recieve funds for childcare from the state but the more money they make the bigger their portion toward child care goes. Keeping them ever dependant on the state funds.

I see the working single sister with the three kids. She also goes to college at night. She wants out of this poverty strickened state. She can't even get assistance from the state because she makes $5.oo over the budget. So she has to trust that her children will stay out of trouble while she struggles to make things right. Of course children are children and they will try to maintain respect amongst the other children who are running wildly in the streets without supervision.

I see the family who lives a little more comfortable than most. Although they still aren't quite over the poverty level. They sit back and watch the single mother go to work and school. They see her children outside acting a fool. Now one says a word to the children or their mother. They just sit their and talk about their faults for the purpose of feeling better about themselves.

I see the young mothers who had to raise themselves the best way they know how. They have been independant from their parents since they were 12 years old. Now they have to raise their own children. Not having a clue as to what they are doing. In other words the blind leading the blind.

I see the children of these young parents, growing up with each other. Addressing their teenage parents like they are there siblings or equals.

I see the determined, Giving everything they got to get out. Staying in school, opening their own businesses, and getting out of the ghettos and never looking back. Trying to forget that they were ever there.

All these people make up the community. All these people dealing with their on personal issues but hardly no one being neighborly or even caring to assist each other in some form or fashion.

Some might argue that I'm making excuses for my people. That I'm not being realistic about the issues that are presented in these neighborhoods, But I don't see it that way.

Surly one can change their situation. Many have. However, All people arent strong enough to handle what comes to the next person as simply as an obstacles by themselves.

Yes, Mr.Cosby has pointed out some truths about my neighborhood. But I will never support the take care of your own campagne. It's obvious to me that this kind of thinking is already in order.

I say take care of your own and help out each other. If we want to see our communities thrive, Then we all got to put in some support of each other. If one person is the perfect example of what a parent should be doing, It still won't change the community.

People should stop faulting each other and start helping each other. Unity is the only way that change will come.

Thanks, Sista Queenie, you're are the personification of poise and class, and I take my lead from you, no doubt... One of my heroes, the late Adam Clayton Powell, once said that "if you're Black and you're not paranoid, then you're crazy..." That being said, I dig our responses to criticism which we feel are unfair, or delivered by folks whom we feel are unqualified to make commentary on our condition...

Nevertheless, I think we are very defensive as a community when one of our own cannot make a critical assesment about our community without being trashed... I do not necessarily care about the forum in which they make their comments, because no matter where they make those comments in this day and age, they will be recorded, and they will become public... That is the reality of our living in a society which has one of the foremost intelligence agencies in the world... Carnivore is scanning this board as we speak, and as I write, and aint a **** thing I can do about it...(smile!) We cannot shout people down who are trying to make a difference, because we will lose them as a resource... I am not speaking specifically here to Cosby, but to anyone who might be trying to effect some change... We must show some patience, and a willingness to accept criticism from credible people... Cosby is a credible guy, who is not an eloquent public speaker... He has made some important contributions to our community, and I respect his right to voice his opinion...

Look folks, Minister Farrakhan had more than a million brothers spend their time and money to come down to Washington so he could deliver a speech that was, in my opinion, utterly ridiculous... He had the chance of a lifetime, to deliver to those brothers a plan for the next century, but the man wasn't prepared... Yeah, Black looked good in his pinstripe suit, but his speech didn't even stimulate the kind of discussion we're having as a result of Cosby's comments... As I Recall of the Million Man March, we were, in the main, concerned with the numbers game - as if that was important!!!

Ultimately, Cosby's comments will pass on unremarkably, unless he continues making these statements. We will have achieved what some of want, and that is to shut the guy up... But, will shutting down Cosby's tour address problem the first in our communities???

That is why I wont have any more conniptions about this affair... I dont' care for Cosby's humor(gimme Pryor!), nor his recent speeches... I just know that we have needed to converse as a community on these issues, and his speeches may have begun that process... Sista Queenie, you're right, there are some Africans workin' workin' workin' day and night, but the vast majority of us aint, and that's because they're not at all conscious that there's a problem... To them, this is the way stuff has always been, and that's fine with them... Those folks need the wakeup call in the worst way... Perhaps, Cosby's remarks will reach them, and they will take another look... That is what re(again)spectos(look)means...

Peace!
Isaiah

The venue that Cosby made these remarks was at Jesse Jackson's 33rd Annual Rainbow/PUSH Coalition conference in Chicago, with 500 people in attendance at the Sheraton hotel.

And Cosby's remarks were broadcast by the news media.

Earlier this year Farrakhan spoke to THOUSANDS, in Chicago, regarding "reparations" and broadcast the address over satellite to more thousands, but the "news media" made no mention of that event.

So it just goes to show, how the news media can MAKE an event into what's called a "media event."

FWIW - just spent an evening visiting friends in the "lower economic class".

i didn't see any of the pathologies Cosby speaks of.

i wonder how much time Cosby actually spends around "the lower economic class" these days?

Any African American with a lick of sense knows that as a people we have problems. Believe it or not, blacks talk about these problems amongst each other all the time. Take my grandmother for example. Whenever we go out anywhere and she sees a group of black people dressed like rap video extras and acting ignorant she just looks at me and says, "There goes your people." My response is usually, "Those are your people too, Granny," to which she usually responds, "Those aren't my people. I'm old!" That humorous dialog we have with one another represents an issue that blacks have with each other that few non-blacks are aware of. Chris Rock said it best in his 1996 HBO Special "Bring the Pain" when he said, "Everything that white people hate about black people, black people really hate about black people."

And as much as we hate those things, what we hate more than anything is having anybody else hear about them other than us. It's like being in a disfunctional family. We know daddy's an alcoholic, we know that you know daddy's an alcoholic, but we want to pretend like we don't know that you know so that we never have to talk about it in front of you and don't have to risk being judged by you. At least not to our faces. So when Bill Cosby put daddy's alcoholism out on the street for everyone to see at a NAACP event commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Brown vs. Board of Education, needless to say, it stirred things up a bit.

Y'all read said Coz said.

The worlds greatest dad basically *****-slapped black America, and black America did not like it. Since that night, Cosby has been labeled a sell out by many black columnists, one even refering to him as "a chocolate covered Rush Limbaugh." So how can a man who has broken down as many barriers for blacks, both professionally and personally by being one of the biggest philanthropists for just about every noteworthy African American cause out there, be labeled a sell out? Why did he have so many African Americans that don't even represent any of the stereotypes he complained about wishing he'd have taken Eddie Murphy's advice in "Raw" and had a Coke and a smile and shut the **** up?

Simple. Because we as minorities often feel as though we don't have the luxury of being seen as individuals. Racism and stereotyping have caused minorities to develop insecurities about our actions as a collective. When white people look at the Jerry Springer Show and see a bunch of trashy white folks on television the response is typically, "Look at them embarrasing themselves like that." When minorites look at Springer and see members of their respective races on there acting like fools our response is usually, "Look at them embarrasing us like that." We can seperate ourselves from the actions of those people that Dr. Cosby was talking about, we just don't think that whites can. And it certainly doesn't help matters when you've got every neo-con out there that would just as soon spit on him as shake his hand labeling him as "a credit to his race."

That, in a nutshell, is the crux of the issue. We hate to see somebody like Bill Cosby, one of the most well-respected African Americans alive, providing fodder for all the bigots out there who don't look at his remarks as trying to incite change, but rather as somebody simply "putting those upity ******* in their places" the way that they wish one of them could without being labeled a racist or possibly getting their ***** kicked. We hate seeing the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly using his words to push their self-righteous, ultra-conservative agendas. I know that was the first thing I thought about as I read Dr. Cosby's speech. But after thinking about it for awhile I had an epiphany.

It suddenly occured to me that these people are never going to get it, so why do we even care? They're always going to find something to fuel their agendas with anyhow, so why do we care where they find it? It's not as if they needed Dr. Cosby's statements to develop that point of view in the first place, and it's not as if their opinions were ever going to change had he never made them. So my position is a simple one. **** 'em. No, seriously... **** 'em. Sometimes things just need to be said, and sometimes in order for them to be heard by the people that need to hear them you have to say it loud enough so that even the people that don't need to hear them can as well. Maybe "speaking the truth and shaming the devil" is exactly what we need right about now.

Okay...Brother Isaiah has inspired me to take a step back...pause...think...and approach the Cosby situation from a different angle. There's another saying: "Don't kill the messenger!" So, try to overlook the MAN and pay more attention to the words that are coming out of his mouth.

How can we break this down to its lowest common denominator? Surely we all agree that there is some truth to the issues and criticisms raised by Cosby. After all, it was stated here earlier by someone that Black people are not unique to these issues.

Maybe the reason the majority of his speeches don't include statistical comparisons, is because he doesn't care what people of other races are or aren't doing, but that he only cares about what Black people are or aren't doing.

For all of the issues and concerns that Cosby did point out, we know that the opposite is also true among our people. There are a lot of "good" and positive things being done within the community as well. But how many of us believe that the "bad" outweighs the "good"?

Proportionally speaking, is it true that Blacks are doing far worse on many different levels and areas compared to other people from different racial groups? Because we may individually see pockets of ill behavior in our smaller communities, are we safe to trust the data that is released that describes us in the population overall, very often in the lowest percentile in terms of achievement?

Do we agree that in recent years, at least for those that are old enough to compare this generation with earlier generations of Black people, society as a whole has changed on a moral and cultural level, in ways that have been devastating to our growth and healthy development? My sense is that in general, African Americans have not adjusted well since the post-Civil Rights era. Do you agree?

Most of us seem to be able to pinpoint what many of our problems are. We believe that the much of our issues are contributed to by racism, and some are contributed to by ourselves. Can we determine and agree on which of these two situations we have control over and which one we don't? I'm sure we can all agree, that we can only change that which we have control of, right?

If we can only control ourselves, then what are the best ways we can implement to combat racism and overcome it? What are the things that we can do individually AND collectively to change what we don't like about ourselves as a community? What is it that divides us on these issues?

Have you ever wondered what it must feel like to be among those that are praised for their achievements? What would it feel like if Cosby was standing at a podium speaking about all the great and wonderful things that we do and proudly acknowledging his contributions to help make us great? What message would that be sending our parents and our children and how would that make us feel? Are we so bad that we don't deserve some praise even when there's room for improvement? Why throw the good into the same pot as the spoiled?

Personally, I don't think we're being overly sensitive or blind to our issues and I think any group would have responded the same as we are if it was them under the microscope like this. But what's said has been said and now we must deal with it and move on. We can't let this negative media attention stop those of us who believe in US. So do we deal with the man or do we focus on his message? Are we powerless to figure out what to do next and is the problem so large that we can't solve it? I know the answer to that last question...what about you?

Queenie :spinstar:

Excellent post, bigdaddycc. Greetings and Welcome to our community! :wave: It's so nice to have you join us and we hope you enjoy your visits. I loved reading your message. It was powerful and resonated wisdom. You and I are in the same generation so I related very well to what you conveyed.

Please make yourself at home and feel free to surf around and see the many different features we have to offer. Some of our special features are reserved for Premium Members only so if you like what you see, we hope you will become one. For details on how to do that, just click on the link located in my tag line and it will take you to where you need to go.

If you have questions, feel free to ask. I'm looking forward to seeing you around!

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Sista Queeni and BigDaddyCC, I believe that we've reached a meeting of the minds here, and it feels good(smile!) Like I said, I got bent when Cosby began making these statements, some of which I make most of the time... I realized I was spazin' 'cause he did the unthinkable NEGRO thang, and publicly let open our closet with all them funky, terrible-looking skeletons in it, and I was wondering 'how we gone clean up this mess?'(smile!)

Well, I guess "cleaning up this mess" is the point here, and messes are not cleaned up by sweeping them under the rug... Frankly speaking, I'm not even thinking Bill Cosby nor anyone else when I pose these questions to myself, and I'm not thinking about Cosby now, because Cosby is not our problem, some of WE are our problem... I don't say that judgementally, I say it knowing that I who sit wistfully lameting Cosby's comments, and doing nothing about nothing, before or since his comments, am part of the problem...

Like I said, we used to have a village, and though that village was beset by more problems that one could shake a stick at, it had the wisdom and the will to act of it's own volition and accord even though it was not even technically free... Back then, no Cosby speeches were needed... The community acted like a community, and placed its collective finger in the dike... That is how African Americans survived, and even thrived in an environment far more openly hostile to it than now... Now most of us at this board know this to be true, but many of us want to make excuses, which I think does dishonor to those who made a brighter day possible for a lot of us, and even worse, does zero to rectify our issues...


Sista QueenNN, you are raising some challenging questions up above, questions which we should make our mission to return affirmative answers to... Yes, I can say unequivocably, that we Africans can solve the issues of our communities without any governmental intervention, and completely on our own... Unlike our ancestors who came outta slavery with ZipZERONada, and managed to aquire 20-million acres of land in the span of 50 years, we are spending 1-trillion dollars a year on barbecue potato chips, Escalades, and Lee's Press On Nails(smile!) We must change that pattern, and I think we can... Let me offer some ideas that were we to undertake to apply them, we might begin to see some immediate as well as long-term change in our communities...

1. The National Black Baptist Convention has near 10-million members, and I wonder if we can get this convention to ask its members to contribute $10 for the year to start a credit union for its own members, that would enable some of those members to buy their own homes, or open up their own businesses? 10X10-million is 100-million to start up one credit union, with more to open in each state inhabited by African Americans over the next 50 years??? Oh, and BTW, these credit unions aren't required to do business with Africans only... White man's money, and Asian man's money is just as green(some negroes say it's greener!)

2.Opening Savings Accounts for our Children... And not touching them until they've graduated from college! Just think of the incentive for a child to finish their schooling if they've got $10-15Gs awaiting them when they graduate from college? Mre importantly, it gives our children some of the same advantages Whites and Asian young people have when they graduate from school, and that's why they can accomplish more entrepreneurially than our youth, who must start from ground zero...


3. Savings Accounts for ourselves... One of my issues with my family and friends, and Africans generally, is that we're really not very disciplined in our spending habits... Sorry to say, many of us can't wait until we get paid, so we can buy something almost immediately, and without asking ourselves the question, "do I really NEED this, or do I just WANT to have this?" We surely work to have the things we want, but in our community, I believe, it is that instant gratification of our wants that outweigh the long-term sacrifices one needs to make to fulfill one's needs. Our needs are a home for our children to live in, not an Escalade so we can profile in... Our needs are to build businesses in our communities, not to perpetuate into perpetuity the wealth of other ethnic groups at our expense... I've often heard African people saying that the Koreans are getting loans from the Feds, and that's why they have these businesses... No, the Koreans have effected a lottery system for potential entrepreneus to secure interest-free loans, and as those loans are paid back(by African people in the main)another Korean grocer gets another loan, and that system perpetuates itself, providing a steady flow of businesses for Koreans, and money out of Black folks' hands... We can learn a lot from others if we only watch what they're doing, and establish our own system...

4.Here in New York City, Abyssinian Baptist Church has just built a 35-million dollar high school for African youth, and it really is beautiful! I am hoping that this kind of thing will be duplicated all over the country, because it is at the primary and secondary level of of children's schooling that things fall apart, particularly for our Black males. We need to stop depending on government to do for our communities, and do it ourselves, and within our churches, that cry should go out from the members...

It is ironic that down south, during those 55 years of Segregation, African Americans built more schools with less money than we have in the 50 years following segregation! Back then, we endured having to pay, through our tax dollars, for the school buildings and the schooling of white children... The miniscule amount of our tax dollars allocated to our schooling and school buildings meant that we were double-taxed, because we wound up having to collect from the community to build our own buildings... Well, if our ancestors could do that, then we can too... Don't worry about it, we'll own the school building, and we'll control the schooling that goes on in there, and that will be to our advantage... That's self-determination, and that leads to my last suggestion...

6. African People, Please Stop Making Excuses, and Stop Being Tolerant of Excuses!!! It is high time for some tough love, and an end to the kind of permissiveness that has us making excuses for brothers dropping outta school, dealing drugs, going to the joint, and not supporting their families... We're not showing no love by not challenging ourselves to do better... We're not showing a young sister any love by telling her it's alright to make 5 babies with 4 brothers, knowing that those babies don't stand a chance in hell of succeeding in this life with an uneducated mother, and no responsible male in the household... This kind of thinking has been disastrous for us, and we must begin to understand our own complicity in our problems before we can undertake to eliminate them...


peace!
Isaiah

"Our needs are a home for our children to live in, not an Escalade so we can profile in... Our needs are to build businesses in our communities"

it's not about what the needs are.
it's what is VALUED.
most people will seek out what they VALUE.

if a way can be found to impart correct VALUES into the community the community will take care of the rest.

the issue is VALUES and ETHICS.

Cosby just gave us a dose of tough love and harsh reality! If you don't see it then open your eyes it's all around us. buying our children 150.00 basketball shoes and they dont playbasketball and they dont have a bank account either?

FUBU, Sean Jean, Polo, Timberland, ECHO and the rest..... but where is the savings account for college? Where is the house and not a low income housing unit within a crime filled enviorment? Can we grow without saying the "sellout thing?"

Plasma TV, Italian leather sofa, 1,000.00 sterio system, cabel TV, satalite TV, but no direction to get our selves out of debt...LOL


like spike said in school daze "wake Up"

For me, I don't like to use the sell-out mantra. The people We call sell-outs, I called users... some of them are abusers. I have not made up my mind if Cosby is a user yet.

I think that he feels the pain of what We have let happen to Us. Should We even be talking to and around White folk? No.

I agree 100% that We should not care about what they say, think or feel...They, themselves, have to deal with their sickness. Whether or not others are at home laughing at Us--I don't care, because I ain't one of Us stupid negroes going out and helping them either... I'm not fighting for them when things happen to them (and they go home with the White folk while We are out fighting our issues); I'm not doing everything in the world to find some kind of affiliation with other people, because I'm too stupid to love myself and my people, and work for affiliations with them (members of the most powerful entity that God created)... and I'm surely not flip-flopping in any of their establishments making them and Whitefolk rich...in my neighborhood, while I stay poor.

But, We should not be afraid either to talk to each other.

All other communities hide their dirty laundry. Why can't We? (no, I am not saying that We should or have to hide...but that is our perogative). This is just another mantra that stupid negroes buy into without thinking. You are the only ones who are still buying into this multiculturalism/diversity nonsense and still have not realized how stupid you are and how it has adversely affected you. Well, if you open your eyes, while We are diversifying and have literally lost institutions and whole communities--ever notice how Whiteville is becoming more white---and they still burning crosses on Our arses.
Do you want to know the communities where spousal abuse is most prevelent?
Asian and Hispanic.
Do you want to know what segment of society has the highest rate of incarceration?
Indian (No, I did not say who has the most, I said highest rate---50%...but We will take this over too, with the apartheid that stupid negroes adhere to).
What segment of African-American society is doing better or as good, as their White counterparts?
It surely ain't Us higher economic peoples--- It is those Lower Economic Peoples... the ones some of you feel you, too, can spit on... those people whose backs; if they break... your arse and mine and Cosby's is gonna fall and hard.

Yes, I would listen to Cosby. If he wants to talk to AA's he can find them--We right here.

But, I do say to you all when it comes to the media--take what they present with a grain of salt... I have witnessed how they have hackneyed his words to fit their own agenda--- and it should wake Us up to see that We got no friends... they find the most debassed clip and protray that as the message... and that was not all he said...when in context...it is digestable enough to think about.

The poster who said that "most of Us are not working hard;" I have one question: Then how in the hell are most of Us making it, with all the obstacles set against Us? Most poor people doing the same. That to me is a borderline racist sentiment... more feed for fodder, if I may.

Pretending that his delivery and choice of where to open his mouth does not affect you because you have a job, or because you have a house, or because you may have never been disadvantaged; economically, parentally, socially, mentally... ain't going to save you; nor Cosby (he can buy himself in; the beast takes cash or credit for your soul); when you fall on your arse--then I want to hear you speak.

The poster who stated the correlations b/t his new cartoon and his speaking out... great observation... I was wondering the same thing.

Sorry about forgetting names, I read all the posts and that was alot to take in.

"Our needs are a home for our children to live in, not an Escalade so we can profile in... Our needs are to build businesses in our communities"

it's not about what the needs are.
it's what is VALUED.
most people will seek out what they VALUE.

if a way can be found to impart correct VALUES into the community the community will take care of the rest.

the issue is VALUES and ETHICS.

THANK YOU BROTHER! ASE!
THIS IS THE ISSUE HERE - VALUES AND ETHICS - CULTURE

Blackbird

Greetings, brother JamesfrmPhilly(smile!) Though I've "known" you for only a short while at this forum, I've come to admire your passion and committment. I feel I can say, 'James, don't B.S. me, man', and you'll respond with a smile, knowing precisely where I'm coming from(smile!) Values and Ethics, you say, a culture of materialism I say, and we're both right, brother...

I don't wanna waste your time or mine, fomenting these semantical treatises, particularly when I know we're on the same page. When I say words to the effect that many in our community are more concerned with the Escalade than the Brownstone ownership, that is a question of their values. Brother James, I live in the Bedford Stuyvesant section of Brooklyn New York, and I can tell you there are more customized Escalades and Expeditions out here than in communities with far higher average incomes, and that includes communities in my neck of the woods, like Spike Lee's old neighborhood, Clinton Hill/Fort Greene. Those communities are heavily African-American of the professional class, and their tastes and value systems are different... You need only drive through there to see what I'm talking about...

Understand something here, brother, I'm not into the Us Vs Them thang... I am not putting those AA professionals on some pedastal, and judging us po' folks against that standard... I am attempting to point out the contrasts between the value systems of the haves vs. the have nots, and saying the have nots can learn from the haves how to have, if they study them, and learn from them...

"Having" of course, does not mean an end to all of their and our problems and issues, but it would address the issue of ownership of property, of businesses, and increasing our tax base as a community. Brother James, do you know that communities with larger tax bases get MORE community services, better schools, better sanitation pickup, and this is borne out even in middle-class African American neighborhoods??? My beautiful brother, you aint but a drive from here down the Jersey Turnpike, and I will SHOW you what I'm talking about - promise(smile!)

A great example of how this works, where money talks and the other stuff walks, is the East Flatbush section of Brooklyn, which is an enclave of the African Caribbean diaspora for near 35 years... The African Caribbeans out there speak with their money, because only recently have they begun to be politically active. They have built businessess out there, and bought homes, and their streets are clean like the Sanitation Department is on-call 24/7... Part of that is their value system, the other half is how they've managed to use their dollars to convince politicians that they aint no joke economically... Simple as that...

Once again, I am not trying to pit one group against the other, just pointing out my observations of things... BtW, African Americans live, and own homes in that community, so it is a joint effort... They also own Escalades, too, just like we do out here in economically depressed Bedford Stuyvesant, but I think if you own a business, and you own your own home, you deserve to own the car of your choosing... It simply doesn't hurt'cha as much as it hurts the guy living paycheck-to-paycheck...

So, Brother James, we're on the same page, and Im not riffing on lower-economic Black folks, 'cause I am one, man(smile!) I'm simply saying to you, brother, don't be trying to tell me to believe you, and "not your lying eyes.."(smile!) I know what I see out here on a daily, cats who own 2 pit bulls and rock, but don't never take time out to see their own children... Now, is that a commentary on people's ethics and values, or what??? Don't tell me that's only a few people, because one is too many...

Finally, there's a reason why we have these issues with values and ethics in our communities, and that is because we have failed to enforce and reinforce those values and ethics... This used to happen in our homes and churches and social organizations, but African Americans have adopted the "atomized", "nuclear" values of the larger society, where we used to be a village. The difference being, the larger European society places the individual above the whole, and the African village places the village at a premium above the individual, while clearly allowing for individual expression. The bottom line is that we can change this around, but we've got to be willing to talk about these things, admit these things, and develop some strategies which attack these things... If we continue to be defensive about stuff we know we wish would just disappear, it will not only NOT disappear, it will fester and grow so large as to be unmanageable...

Like I said before, cancer doesnt just disappear, man... Those who believe in them kinda miracles are the same kinda folks playing the lotto, and making that prize fat for somebody else... I believe many of us ARE looking for the easy way out, which does not mean we're lazy Sista Happy69... It just means we aren't willing to work as hard as we know is necessary - like in this thread, where we're throwing up our hands, and cursing the messenger for saying in public what we say privately all the time... could it be that we know he's calliing us out, and we just dont wanna be put on notice that we got to get on the ball???(smile!)

Granted, I emphathize with those of us who see the task as daunting, and I admit that it is, but I know my people, and I know where we've come from, and this really isn't as large as the hurdles we've already conquered... It is just that this generation of younger and older Africans isn't used to really working hard on anything... Those brothers and sisters who worked on those plantations, sharecropping year after year for nothing, and struggled against a wickedly racist caste system, and faced it down, and won... Those folk made us a little fat and lazy - literally... Perhaps, they had so much to overcome that their focus was more powerful and empowering than ours... But we have to use their inspiration to work on ourselves... We will feel better about ourselves, and our communities, and the world will do as it has become accostomed to doing, and that is they will use us as their example... Because that is our role in this world, I believe, to be the vanguard example for the rest of the world... If we look at what amounts to culture in this world, African American Culture has been a culture upon which other cultures took their cues about what is hip, what is fly, what is happenin'... Unfortunately, we have now shown the world what is ghetto, and we must flip that, and show it how to clean up a ghetto... Unlike some on this thread, I believe that's possible, as long as we do not make excuses NOT to do what we must...

Peace!
Isaiah

if you want to change peoples behavior you must start by understanding peoples behavior.
if you want to understand behavior you must study behavior, Fannon and Freud are good starting points.
people will pursue what they VALUE in a manner determined by their ETHICS.
if you want to change what people will pursue you must change their VALUES.
if you want to change HOW they pursue you must change their ETHICS.

as a general rule, positive reinforcement is more effective than negative reinforcement.
show me ONE member of the "lower economic class" who gives a rats arse what Cosby says.

matériel goods and services are over rated as values.
to me the highest value is love and community.
Black folk rate consumer items as a value only because we have been isolated from bonds of love and community.
consumer goods are used as a substitute for the love and approval that so many of us are lacking, even Cosby.
if Cosby truly could feel love, would he be out dancing for the white man?

i watch Allen Iverson drive by me on the street in his new Rolls and i know that i am more happy and content then he is because i have people who love me for who i am and not my money (i don't have any) and will ride the bus with me as that is all that we can afford.

i have found that when you are looking death in the face (as i have) that Rolls will not come to you and hold your hand and pull you back from death.

we can look inside and determine what values we hold and how did we get them.
we can examine them and decide if we want to retain them or not.

many bad values are transmitted to the youth via the media.

we control the media.

we can take it over and make it work for us.
the community decides which art to consume.
if the community thinks pedophilia is bad thing, then bankrupt R Kelly.
it should be simple, we have already bankrupted most of our jazz musicians. :shades:

Brother James, I'm with you on the theory, but how do we get beyond it to practical applications??? Sister Queenie asked us to provide some suggestions, and it seems we've all been guilty of the same infraction as Cosby, not providing a program(smile!) What can we do to take this thing to the next level, which would be providing some solutions to our problems, and actually implementing a program for that purpose???

Peace!
Isaiah

In the "Bill Cosby on Responsibility" thread some very good solutions were offered, see:

http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25952

Brothers James and Kannte, thanks for your suggestions and recommendations... I shall read that thread more thoroughly... Thanks, Kannte!

Peace!
Isaiah

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/

my local paper contains a letter from black people telling me to look into the mirror.
it has an article from a white writer offering solutions to my problems.

the Cosby led charge to bash the black is in full swing here in Philadelphia.
let me say that there is no one more introspective than myself and I'll be happy to look into the mirror, as soon as Bush does, as soon as Ken Lay does, as soon as Cosby himself does.

where is the line between "tough love" and sadism?

white racists have learned to use black self hatred against us by telling us, boldly, "it's your own fault", "if you'd just clean up your act, we'd stop being racist".
all across the land "hip" Negroes are jumping up to bash their brothers in an orgy of Thomasism(Clarence).

if black folk could ever learn to hate racists half as much as they hate themselves........

james, good post...i read a couple of articles from that paper concerning the cosby tirade and i felt offended...

i would like to add this to the mix in this debate...my grandfather told me this when i was a lil boy before he died and i want to share this with you guys...he said, "any group of people are nothing without good leadership"...i really didn't understand what he told me then because i was about 10 so it didn't make sense...the older i became and the more that i saw i began to understand this statement...i cannot express my complete disdain enough for what cosby has done, stand on one side of the fense and call out the other side...granted that side needed calling out, but where is the objectiveness in his statements...if he called out the poor blacks with poor education, he should have also called out our black leaders...a rev. jesse jackson who get's caught with his pants down...maybe he didn't call out our leaders because he has also gotten caught with his pants down. where is the point man/woman for our race? where is the direction? no matter how well blacks do in school, if we as a race do not have a direction, a plan, then it will be all for naught. now as james stated earlier, we have whites telling us what our problem is, this will not help OUR problem in the slightest. people on this board probably do not and will not agree with my reasoning on this subject, but bill cosby is acting like a house negro to me...my defination of this is someone that points out someone elses flaws within the black race without addressing their own...this goes with economic class also...the problem is more complicated then what cosby has outlined and to tell you the truth, i think the bad from this outburst will overshadow the good...only time will tell
one love
khasm

Brother Khas...all good points you have raised and they haven't fallen on deaf ears. I don't think any of us take issue with the concerns that Cosby is raising, although I do take issue with him singling out poor people for being responsible for the problems we face. But there's this feeling, if you will, that something is inherently wrong with the manner in which Cosby chose to convey his message and my belief is that this bad feeling is brought on by our experiences with racism and Black people's relationship with white people.

No one in their "right" mind invites "foreigners" into their home--where we sleep, love, eat, nurture and seek solace--and allows these strangers to witness everything about our family unless we are paying them as professionals to psychoanalyze us and to resolve certain issues. But here's a news flash that Cosby is ignoring: White America is NOT our solution!

Call it pride, call it shallow thinking, call it whatever--we shouldn't do it like this because it serves absolutely no purpose and only further divides us and sends us spiraling into yet another conflict within and without our community. We spend far too much time discussing this man and his issues than we do living each day in ways that are not like what he describes.

Black people are not playing a role in some reality television show. But essentially, THAT'S what Cosby has turned us into--reality TV. Another form of Jerry Springer which has become nothing more than entertainment for white America to look at and think they KNOW us!

Yes, white people THINK they know us and it's not surprising as to why they think this way. Every time you turn around, we're in the news being displayed how terrible we are and how awful it must be to be Black.

You ask where are our Black leaders? Here's a thread I started a while ago about that. Read the comments and see what you think.

http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13219

Queenie :spinstar:

Sister Queenie, welcome back!

I still think we're focusing on the wrong issue... Cosby is not the issue, but because we're choosing to focus on him, he has become the issue... I've read on a number of ocassions in this thread, that many of us say privately, what Cosby said publicly, and that is our issue with him... As I stated before, I took umbrage at his public statements initially, and even thrashed him for his "apostasy" in another thread... After calming down a piece, after soberly confronting the fact that even worse things are done by members of our community against one another, I realized that we have gone through worse, and this too shall pass...

We still need to deal with those issues Cosby talked about, and then some, so how much time will we spend being here, when we should be going there??? Because Bill Cosby is not a leader of African Americans, or anyone else, I don't understand why we've allowed what he said to penetrate this deeply??? In my own personal life, I must thoroughly respect someone to allow their words to penetrate to the core of my being, causing me hurt and pain... It seems a lot of us have it twisted, all this sensitivity over his words, all of this respect being granted an entertainer... Phew!

Brother James, be careful now... Subdue some of that passion, and don't call anyone out of their names, or misdiagnose what is in their heads, or the motives behind what they say... Re-read the COINTELPRO PAPERS, my brother... Calling people names, accusing them of this and that... That is the modus operandi of our enemies, and it has caused so much bloodshed and pain and trauma and tragedy, we should just do our best to refrain... Marcus Garvey was deported, Malcolm, and so many others are dead, because we couldn't subdue our passion and fervor long enough to check out the facts...

Peace!
Isaiah

Brother James, be careful now... Subdue some of that passion, and don't call anyone out of their names, or misdiagnose what is in their heads, or the motives behind what they say... Re-read the COINTELPRO PAPERS, my brother... Calling people names, accusing them of this and that... That is the modus operandi of our enemies, and it has caused so much bloodshed and pain and trauma and tragedy, we should just do our best to refrain... Marcus Garvey was deported, Malcolm, and so many others are dead, because we couldn't subdue our passion and fervor long enough to check out the facts...

Peace!
Isaiah

shouldn't you address these same remarks to Cosby?
isn't HE the one calling names and talking about people?
is it OK for him to talk about me but not OK for me to talk back?

you gotta call a spade a spade on both ends...
to do otherwise would be counter-productive in this situation...
cosby got on stage and even talked about some black folks names...
what does that have to do with our place in this country?
let's not hold a blind eye and a deaf ear to his remarks...
to do so would be tantamount to receiving a slap in the face without saying a word...
one love
khasm

so uncle cosby is now ridiculing black peoles names? what does he want us all to have english names, as well as speak his "perfect white english? thats the last straw, this man is a disgrace.

http://www.africana.com/columns/izrael/ls20040707pres.asp

This is all it takes.

I've read this thread and sparsely followed all of Cosby's comments in the media. I was a bit shocked at first by what he said, mainly because I hadn't known of him to speak in that way about us or our culture. By the same token, I do realize and accept the fact that some of us do speak and act the way in which he describes. I haven't allowed him to change myself or my interactions with those around me. This site, is proof positive of all the greatness that Blacks, African Americans, or whatever you choose to call yourself represent. We are from all over, and some here know so much more about our history and our paths than others. It doesn't make the lesser knowledgeable folks any less valuable. So, Cosby can speak until he is blue in the face. We can speak as well, because it is our right. At the end of the night, Cosby doesn't tuck me in, pay my bills, or ask me how I'm doing. He doesn't offer advice on how to change any situation I may struggle with. I don't have an interest in people, powerful or not, spouting negativity about the plight of black folks. I know what we are capable of and am so proud to be a sista. Despite him.

I'm brand new here so if I'm out of order please forgive me.

I just want to chime in and add this little bit of food for thought. I agree with Khasm and Jazzy and a few of the others in this thread.

What's upsetting to me is that the Cosby's and the Armstrong Williams’ and others of that ilk insist on blaming the water for being wet.

When Dr. Cosby speaks its as if he is in a vacuum and the youth he so vehemently puts down are not his offspring. “We are your descendants sir!”

What we see today, as the hip-hop generation with the language and the videos and all our other forms of expression is a result. RESULT!

I want to shout that loud and long – the RESULT-
The result of the generational work that the forefathers of hip-hop put in. It is the offspring of the “greatest generation, the babyboomers and doowoppers. Hip Hop is the child of all those folk who contributed to the thought process prevalent in our society today. You’re blaming the water for being wet.

Do we blame the 3-year-old child for using expletive language? No, we blame the parent for allowing the child. If the child was ‘properly educated’ which seems to me to be the responsibility of the parent, Mr. Cosby, that is if you had done your job of raising and educing, then you wouldn’t be faced with blaming your children for being, wayward.

You blame a youth for selling drugs yet provide him no other means of support. Instead of blaming me for selling the drugs, why don’t you spend some of your energy on getting the drugs out of the neighborhood, cause I certainly didn’t bring them in here.

You blame me for using what you call fowl and angry language, well d*mn it I’m enraged because you haven’t made the provisions you were supposed to make for your offspring.

You brought me into this jungle and then blame me for surviving in it, please.

I think one of the first solutions would be for you, Dr. Cosby, to take some RESPONSIBILITY.

I didn’t ask for this world, I’m just trying to navigate through it using the meager tools you gave me. And just as the JazzyMoon said, I will prevail and prosper whether you assist me or not…

BRAVO, 7th! Sometimes we all have to get a little mad, say what we think, and retrieve our calm.

im not sure if any of have read this yet.. but here it is anyway.. my thing that im wonderin.. is this a cover up.. a way for him to claim and get some doe on his taxes.. or for him to look good after all he done jus said.. yal read and let me know what yall think.......thanx

soorree guys but this link thing aint workin fo this article .. so i had to copy it..

Thursday, Jul 8, 2004, 11:08 am EST

Bill Cosby Paying for Education of 2
Associated Press

-----------------------------

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (AP) -- Comedian Bill Cosby, who recently said black children are "going nowhere" because they don`t know how to read and write, is paying for the college education of two top high school graduates who support themselves.
Cosby, who lives in Shelburne, read a story in The Republican of Springfield about Loren M. Wilder and Jimmy L. Hester, who are also black. They went to three colleges in a tour arranged by Cosby, and selected Hampton University in Hampton, Va. after visiting the campus on Tuesday.

Click Here To Read The Entire Article (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tv/aptv_story.asp?category=1401&slug=Cosby%20Students)

<<< edited by Destee - article removed and link added in its place >>>

this sounds like a man who beats his woman and then goes out and buys flowers.

the good act does not permit or excuse the bad act.

soorree guys but this link thing aint workin fo this article .. so i had to copy it

Sister Daroc ... there's no acceptable reason for breaking the rules (http://destee.com/rules). If the link doesn't work, then we just miss out on that article (or you could tell us about it in your own words). Posting it here, in its entirety is not allowed ... unless of course you have received and included permission from the Associated Press (or whoever it belongs to).

I've edited your post and added a link i found, hopefully it will work.

:heart:

Destee

I'm brand new here so if I'm out of order please forgive me.

I just want to chime in and add this little bit of food for thought. I agree with Khasm and Jazzy and a few of the others in this thread.

What's upsetting to me is that the Cosby's and the Armstrong Williams’ and others of that ilk insist on blaming the water for being wet.

When Dr. Cosby speaks its as if he is in a vacuum and the youth he so vehemently puts down are not his offspring. “We are your descendants sir!”

What we see today, as the hip-hop generation with the language and the videos and all our other forms of expression is a result. RESULT!

I want to shout that loud and long – the RESULT-
The result of the generational work that the forefathers of hip-hop put in. It is the offspring of the “greatest generation, the babyboomers and doowoppers. Hip Hop is the child of all those folk who contributed to the thought process prevalent in our society today. You’re blaming the water for being wet.

Do we blame the 3-year-old child for using expletive language? No, we blame the parent for allowing the child. If the child was ‘properly educated’ which seems to me to be the responsibility of the parent, Mr. Cosby, that is if you had done your job of raising and educing, then you wouldn’t be faced with blaming your children for being, wayward.

You blame a youth for selling drugs yet provide him no other means of support. Instead of blaming me for selling the drugs, why don’t you spend some of your energy on getting the drugs out of the neighborhood, cause I certainly didn’t bring them in here.

You blame me for using what you call fowl and angry language, well d*mn it I’m enraged because you haven’t made the provisions you were supposed to make for your offspring.

You brought me into this jungle and then blame me for surviving in it, please.

I think one of the first solutions would be for you, Dr. Cosby, to take some RESPONSIBILITY.

I didn’t ask for this world, I’m just trying to navigate through it using the meager tools you gave me. And just as the JazzyMoon said, I will prevail and prosper whether you assist me or not…



If anything, remind him of the "Fat Albert" cartoon. Didn't he create that?! Didn't he cash in on that?! I don't remember ANY of those characters really talking "proper English". I grew up watching this every week. So, like 7th Poet said... RESULT.

Responsibility is in our hands, yes... but, instead of JUST critiquing why doesn't he create some more TV shows that show positive lifestyles that we ALL can relate to... or maybe donate some of his cha-ching to a cause that will uplift... isn't Magic Johnson doing this? If you got it like that... and you want to contribute... then DO IT! Being poor, doesn't mean that we all gonna be running out to Footlocker to buy 500 dollar kicks... or have a Beama in the projects. Maybe Cosby should buy out BET or make his OWN network! Maybe he should help us finance our OWN movies instead of seeing travesties like "Soul Plane" make it to the big screen on the White man's dime. The reality is that we don't control this place... they do. Doesn't mean we are gonna slack off... there is always gonna be a strong resistance from our Elders (within our communities) to make sure things don't get outta hand (like Destee be doing when I start going off with the copyrwritten posts... sorreee!), but in the end... they (BET/MTV) will STILL bleep out Kanye West saying the "white man get paid off all that"! I am not racist, but I am not stupid either.

I worked in the music video industry for 11 years. I remember a particular rapper who was talking about all the money he had, all the women, etc in front of the camera... only to get stuck behind without a ride home at the end of the shoot. The media (B.E.T./MTV and even other networks) does project this image of the "good life", but... I re-iterate... we all know who is in charge there. I chose to start writing my own stuff and produce/finance my own stuff using my own entreperneurial spirit rather than to continue to work my behind off for the media system. I never was, am not and never will be a corporate-type. I wear jeans and t-shirts and that's that. While I still have to find distributors for my flms, it doesn't matter... I know that I can make it because I stay focused and driven and above all I have a strong Faith.

If Cosby thinks this is a wake-up call... some of us might just hit "snooze" and go right back to sleep thinking about how messed up people become when they make it... trying to clean up shop from the plushness of their sofa in their ballroom-sized living room. Being poor can also mean you are humble... and still REAL... struggling to rise against all odds in a more productive, positive way. I do know what he is essentially saying because I can get past the initial insult, but if some take it to heart... can you really blame them? My mom and dad had a first-grade education and worked off the books for $5.00 an hour to make sure I went to a private school and make something more of myself. Even though what was around me (media trash... ghetto life... family getting shot... all sorts of depressing sh---... etc.) did bear down on me to some degree and make me an angry poet, I can still earn an honest living and turn around and give back to the community. I do it through words and the films I make. I choose to speak however I choose to speak because this is what I am. I don't want to suck up my backside and act fake, when that is not me. There was this one rapper from ATL who was renovating houses for people in his community. There isn't anything really negative about his lyrics (to my knowledge). He speaks ebonics... cause that's him... and through it all... he is REAL about his. As long as it brings the people up, I am all for it.

Regardless of the colonized mentality we were brainwashed into, I still grew up sharing whatever little wealth with others and still managed to go somewhere in life... and my sneakers are still costing me $60.

my bad destee.. sorry bout that.. and thanks for editting it....

If anything, remind him of the "Fat Albert" cartoon. Didn't he create that?! Didn't he cash in on that?! I don't remember ANY of those characters really talking "proper English". I grew up watching this every week. So, like 7th Poet said... RESULT.


Yeah, you know I totally forgot how pitifully ignorant, Step-n-fetchit, Sleep-N-Eat and Amos & Andy like those characters were. Man you’re talkin' about demoralizing and degrading; that, weeba, gonna be betta massa sub-ebonic dialog he espoused on the Fat Albert show was reprehensible.

We should demand that all proceeds that he receives from that drivels syndication be contributed to inner-city literacy programs. I’m sure he has not turned down one residual syndication check from those caricature impressions he personally contributed to our academic rise, not one. Come on Bill, takes some responsibility man.

And Dada, you raise another pertinent issue when you mentioned ‘not being a racist but not being stupid either.’
I think that Bill and a lot of our seniors who get comfortable forget just how intricately racism is laced all through this. The first thing they holla is ‘awe man stop blamin’ the white man, lets forget that and move forward’

Well how do we move forward when we refuse to deal with the ROOT CAUSE. We forget that the ‘Ebonics’ that he insist we stop using was developed originally from Southern White Cr***ka’s as a result of having to communicate using southern white English…

We didn’t make this stuff up, we just adapted and survived.

I am tired of being blamed for surviving…

Greetings and Welcome 7th Poet! :wave:

It is very nice to have you join us in these discussions and you definitely are not out of line and fit right in. Thank you for being here because I think you lend some valuable information and are helping us to take this discussion to a higher level as we carefully and deliberately scrutinize Cosby in terms of what we really think is behind or lies underneath his message.

Take care and hope to see you around more!

Peace!
Queenie :spinstar:

If anything, remind him of the "Fat Albert" cartoon. Didn't he create that?! Didn't he cash in on that?! I don't remember ANY of those characters really talking "proper English". I grew up watching this every week. So, like 7th Poet said... RESULT.

Responsibility is in our hands, yes... but, instead of JUST critiquing why doesn't he create some more TV shows that show positive lifestyles that we ALL can relate to... or maybe donate some of his cha-ching to a cause that will uplift... isn't Magic Johnson doing this? If you got it like that... and you want to contribute... then DO IT! Being poor, doesn't mean that we all gonna be running out to Footlocker to buy 500 dollar kicks... or have a Beama in the projects. Maybe Cosby should buy out BET or make his OWN network! Maybe he should help us finance our OWN movies instead of seeing travesties like "Soul Plane" make it to the big screen on the White man's dime. The reality is that we don't control this place... they do. Doesn't mean we are gonna slack off... there is always gonna be a strong resistance from our Elders (within our communities) to make sure things don't get outta hand (like Destee be doing when I start going off with the copyrwritten posts... sorreee!), but in the end... they (BET/MTV) will STILL bleep out Kanye West saying the "white man get paid off all that"! I am not racist, but I am not stupid either.

I worked in the music video industry for 11 years. I remember a particular rapper who was talking about all the money he had, all the women, etc in front of the camera... only to get stuck behind without a ride home at the end of the shoot. The media (B.E.T./MTV and even other networks) does project this image of the "good life", but... I re-iterate... we all know who is in charge there. I chose to start writing my own stuff and produce/finance my own stuff using my own entreperneurial spirit rather than to continue to work my behind off for the media system. I never was, am not and never will be a corporate-type. I wear jeans and t-shirts and that's that. While I still have to find distributors for my flms, it doesn't matter... I know that I can make it because I stay focused and driven and above all I have a strong Faith.

If Cosby thinks this is a wake-up call... some of us might just hit "snooze" and go right back to sleep thinking about how messed up people become when they make it... trying to clean up shop from the plushness of their sofa in their ballroom-sized living room. Being poor can also mean you are humble... and still REAL... struggling to rise against all odds in a more productive, positive way. I do know what he is essentially saying because I can get past the initial insult, but if some take it to heart... can you really blame them? My mom and dad had a first-grade education and worked off the books for $5.00 an hour to make sure I went to a private school and make something more of myself. Even though what was around me (media trash... ghetto life... family getting shot... all sorts of depressing sh---... etc.) did bear down on me to some degree and make me an angry poet, I can still earn an honest living and turn around and give back to the community. I do it through words and the films I make. I choose to speak however I choose to speak because this is what I am. I don't want to suck up my backside and act fake, when that is not me. There was this one rapper from ATL who was renovating houses for people in his community. There isn't anything really negative about his lyrics (to my knowledge). He speaks ebonics... cause that's him... and through it all... he is REAL about his. As long as it brings the people up, I am all for it.

Regardless of the colonized mentality we were brainwashed into, I still grew up sharing whatever little wealth with others and still managed to go somewhere in life... and my sneakers are still costing me $60.

On point and deep!!! Speak on...

Queenie :spinstar: