"Zooming ahead to the present, we see the kind of effect hip-hop has on young minds. For instance, look how most young Black men dress now. Do-rags on their heads, caps sideways, backwards, and lop-sided. Pants 2 sizes to big, hanging off their butts. Boom-boxes that can be heard from blocks away. Not to mention the sheer lack of respect for almost everything, EVEN THEIR OWN LIVES."

http://www.rense.com/general54/jhip.htm

It aint hip hop.....black parents never had to compete with anything back in the day. They were the best communicators with children cause there was no competition. Nowadays, there is all kinds of competition of which hip hop is ONE part. Instead of stepping up to the challenge, many waste time fighting their kids and telling them their culture is stupid and worthless, in effect alienating the kids. It says more about the parents when a dummy like Master P can get thru to their kids better than they can.

I grew up on hip hop (and many other forms of music). I had NWA's straight outta compton almost as soon as it came out and my dad let me. He explained to me and my older brother about what was being said, how to take it, where the anger comes from.....on and on. That is the kind of communication needed. It is NOT easy and black parents may regret having competition when back in the day they could tell any kid that 3 + 3 = 99 and the kid had no choice but to take it at face value. These days the work needs to be put in and scape goating has to stop.

How could we as adults speak out against superficial people and turn around and claim all young people that dress a certain way act a certain way?? That is the height of hypocrisy. I have a white friend who dresses like your average suburban kid not even the hip hop style. He wears glasses and looks harmless......well, he made soooooo much cash off drug dealing in high school, he build the biggest cd collection (hip hop and funk music) I have ever seen, and paid for the first year and a half of his university education. Meanwhile, I have never sold drugs, dress hip hopish and get dirty looks form some, asked if I deal from some others. Goes to show you......

Anyways, thanks for posting this....I think this could turn into an interesting thread so long as people do more than scape goat.....

PEACE

[B][I]Yea, I gotta agree with mrBlak on this one. I'm a young man, 20, and I listen to a wide variety or r & b, and rap/hip hop. I dress to the point where i feel my clothes have that extra space and I got braids on which i place a du-cap and a sideways hat on top. I'm just feeling that out. Mind you I graduated out of the top 10% of my predominantly white high school, and am still keeping above a 2.5 average in USC predominantly white college in the field of ENGINEERING. Now I agree thats a stereotype that we face today and the only way for us to get looked at in the real world is if we decide to make the necessary change to get that better job. But it takes the commen sense of that person to do so. But like MrBlak said, it isn't the hip hop its how parents and what type of outside influences effect your child. If they are seeing alot of drug-dealing, sex, violence happening outside, and you still manage to get them to church every sunday and read the bible with them. They just might turn out alright. Think about it, let it marinate, and holla back

I have to agree that parents need to take resposibility for their own kids, but as we all know too well, parents aren't always able to be there as much as the television is. It's not because they don't want to, but that they have to work to keep food on the table and a roof over your heads. That's just life and the way we live. Now, if a kid is getting a heavy dose of BET and 1 or 2 hours of parenting a day, more than likely television could turn out to be the bigger influence. Hip Hop is a big problem. Kids think it's cool to dress like clowns then complain when they can't get jobs. Now, not all kids wearing baggy pants and backward hats are ignorant and stupid, but there are a ton of them out there that probably can't read, but they have every issue of XXL. There are exceptions to every rule, but we all probably know more ignorant one's than smart one's...let's be real. Black rappers need to stop fooling themselves and realize that they are role-models...like it or not. You have a responsibility to the people that buy your music and watch your videos. The problem is we buy this stuff and try to copy it, when these people are just teaching you to be ignorant while they run to the bank. They can dress like that because they are financilly set already. They get paid to be clowns. The white man pays them well to make their own race look like fools. They don't have to worry about job interviews or anything pertaining to progressing in life. Clothes don't make the person, but Hip Hop teaches ignorance as far as women, resposibility, drug and alcohol abuse, laziness, morals, respect, violence, dishonesty and education. How can you be a good person when you constantly push this filth into the community. It's like when you live on a street. You don't have to be the one cleaning and sweeping the street...as long as you're not the one litering.

You made me think some Kente!!

I basically wrote my post on the assumption that people should not expect rappers to be role models. Parents should say and teach things to counteract some of the behaviours.....I guess they are gonna be role models to some regardless since kids spend more time in front of the tv than back in the day and videos are the thing to watch. Still it is with the parents IMO.....parents and older kids and syblings. Expose thes kids to more than just MTV rap and they may just cross over to one of the more intelligent and creative genres of rap that get less airplay. I have seen this work. young ones who listen to more conscious artists almost always have an older sibling, or friends with older siblings who exposed them to better hip hop.

Now about the clothes-jobs thing. This is where parents REALLY need to get on the ball. They need to let the kids know it is OK to express one self thru clothing and it is fine to wear that clothing in most environments, but when it comes to jobs and certain other occaisions, the hip hop gear has to be set aside for a couple hours becuase that is just how things go. Explain that and kids will hear it.

You will NEVER catch me dressing up for anything where I dont have to, but send me to a job interview and I have a button down shirt and some slacks. Dressing for the occaision was never taught to these kids and that aint their fault. If it was shown to them without insulting their culture, they would accept....I know this cuase I am the most anti-uniform person....but will do what I gotta cuase thats how I was taught.

i hear wat all yall sayin...

my ex complains that he hasnt gotten hired anywhere and then says its cuz of his image....he acknoledgews this to me- but doesnt make the initiative to change- many have that problem as well....

sometimes u cant always blame the parents..... they raise us - but we live our own life- we have to still find ourself on our own- they can influence us- give their opinion- but we make who we r- i mean im not sayin that they should say somin to thier kid on wats appropriate and wats not- but after a while- the kid knows betta( if they have commonm sense)

and wat should u day to ur child if they earn all their money wit a job and go by rap cd, jeans, golds, and watever else that lives up the stereotype- should a parent limit what their child purchases wit their money?

as for hip hop- i dont have much to really say- i think more than jus hip hop is affectin and controllin young minds- but what about the white kids who are buyin air force ones, akademic, enyce, rocawear and try to portray that same hip hop streotype- is it ok for them b/c essentially are they really livin the stereotype if they are not black?

here is a "funny" cartoon related to the topic
http://www.blackcommentator.com/95/95_cartoon_comodification.html

Funny thing!, I remember when I was growing up , the parents saying the same thing about the music we listened to. Before hip hop got it's fame, crowds of teens would gather in the school yards or parks during summer vacations.

Compliments of the guy with the two turn tables, one mean amp, a equilizer and two or four of the largest speakers I every did see. They would hook up their equipment to a street light and the party was on.

There was'nt hip hop cds, tapes, and ect., other than the free styling of young folks who came to the mic to show off their lyrical skills.

What was different then was the community. The community was'nt just a street you lived on. It was a village. As a village the elders did many things with the children. They taught us street games likes scallies, steal the beacon, Dodge ball, kick ball, and war, just to name a few. And when they were to tired or decided to have some grown up time, the teens would teach these games to the younger children.

Where ever on that block you would go, from eighth avenue on down to lenox, or from 145th to 125th street, someone knew who you were and they knew who your parent was. If your parent was'nt available, they would in turn, take on the role as your standing parent. The people cared about the children then. You could see it and feel it in their actions.

When crack cocaine came on the scene, many of these same parents and the teens began to chase these drugs. The teens, wanting to get rich quick and the parents trying to drown out their heavy weighing troubles with this drug.

They village fell apart and the poor little children was left to raise themselves.
No one who would sit for hours and share the stories of their parents growing up, No one to teach them those street games that I loved so much. The strong began to isolate themselves and their children from the parents and children who had lost their directions.

I'm saying all this to say, that the community has failed the children in whole. Yes!, the way the rap music is today does'nt help, but neither does the community. We point our fingers at this and that one to justify blame when we all play apart in the directions of the children today.

When was the last time you took a child who parent you know, whom is on drugs and sat down with this child, gave him/she a hot meal or washed their soiled clothes, or just talked with them and shared some history with them.

When was the last time you walked by a child sitting at curb and showed him how to earn an honest dollar by helping you out with a chore. WHEN?

We all at some point or still feel, it is not our responsibility. So lets re-direct our very own neglect back at the same children, who practically raised themselves because their parents were addicted to drugs and they did what they thought they had to do in order to survive. Now it has become a fab for children world wide. And getting rich, as fast as they can is the down thing to do, because there is no longer a village to guide them.

Its every man, women, and child for himself. So why should they give a hoot about what somebody else have to say, When no one was there who gave a hoot about them then.

It's time to rebuild these villages, starting with you, me, and everyone else who wants change. Some of what I said is just my opinion, but most of it is due to the things I saw, while growing up in a village built on love and support.

WOW PurpleMoons!!! Now I see why you are how you are (that story you posted about the kids in your neighbourhood that you are like a mother to).

It is sad that these villages dont exist.....to be honest, I was shocked by your post. Everytime black people speak on how "it takes a village to raise a child", 100% of the related stories of experience, and 100% of hypothetical examples of "the village" were related to the rights of people who were no your parents to whip you and beat you for doing the slightest thing wrong. This is clearly all the blacks who grew up in those days remembered or cared about and everytime they say we need to go back to the village, they were speaking on how they thinks kids dont get beat enuff be all adults around them and how fear = repsect.

You have shown me that maybe there were positive things about "the village" worth bringing back. I think that elders speaking to young ones and passing on knowledge would help them enjoy modern entertainment more responsibly and not copy all they see. Good post!!!! It was an eye opener!!

MrBlak

It was'nt a lot of beatings going on, but if another parent caught you doing something out of line they would chastise you and take you back to your parent with the option of whipping some tale. You dared not talk back because you knew if you did you was going to get it worst by your parents.

I truly wish that my son/daughters could experience the bond that I grew up with in my neighborhood.

smh I keep hoping that things will get better for my children/children when they reach of age to be parents. But the hope seems so far away! :cry:

I hope that I shared something that we all can use to help bring back the structure of the village.

Thank you Mr.Blak for you ear and reply!

I hope that I shared something that we all can use to help bring back the structure of the village.

You did just that sister PurpleMoons. Excellent Post....If only everyone thought as you do, the African American community would have no problems.

Mr. Blak, how you, brother(smile!)

Listen, I think you made some very salient points up above, particularly about the role and responsibility of parents, our generals who should be preparing our youth for the battles of life, but who have failed miserably, to pass along the battle plan in a way young soldiers could understand. That is really nothing new under the sun, however. Parents have been guilty of this for a long, long, time, and not just among African people, either...

The one issue I have with my younger brothers and sisters is their unyeilding, uncompromising defense of HipHop, no matter how legitimate the critique, or how credible the source... It is like the "Blue Wall of Silence" made famous by, ironically, police departments around the country, and the world...(smile!) Just as it is unhealthy for these police agencies to cover up their corruption and misdeeds, it is, also, unhealthy for young folk, and Black folk generally, to defensively gloss over our foul elements. It is like ignoring cancer, and ignoring cancer don't make it disappear, it only makes it worse, and far less manageable.

Would that young folks would change the baby's diaper, and do it publicly... Why??? Because it tells the world that you are a proud parent, a loving parent, an unabashedly unashamed parent. It tells the world that you are dealing forthrightly with all aspects of the baby's life and existence, therefore there is no need of outside interference from those who REALlY don't give a **** about the baby. This, too, is applicable to African folks, generally. When we begin to deal with the elements in our community that we know we don't like, it will shut our critics, Black and White, down, and make them appear as far less credible. I believe that because we are so evasive, and so defensive about our communities, it reinforces a sense of shame and guilt, rather than relieving us of those psychic barriers.

Mr. Blak, I believe you're right, it is not JUST HipHop, but HipHop is NOT blameless, my brother... Would you agree that some of the elements that have been involved in HipHop for quite some time have hurt the culture, and it's reputation??? I have my ideas on this, but I'd like Young Folks to step up to the plate for once, and really keep it real... This defensiveness about the culture, brother - that's hiding @@@@, and aint nothing real positive and substantive that needs to be hidden... Oh, by the way, Masta P aint no dummy, bruh(smile!) He might not articulate like you and me, but you must admit that brother's got skills, particularly when it comes to making money... Don't throw the baby out with the tub water, now...(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

I agree what you say about tottal defense of the music. I used to be that way back in the days of highschool and earlier. It comes from being attacked. As time went by and not everyone I met told me that rap is garbge (I grew up in an area with lots of whites and lived there a long time before whites got into hip hop), as more people around me became open mindd, so did I.

It is just human nature to be open minded at times and not at others. I will admit, to this day, if someone comes at me saying something I beleive in is total garbage, I will not sit there and speak on the positives and negatives of what I beleive in.......I will say "to hell with you". In the black community, we dont have a high level of tolerance for difference-not for religion, place of birth, dress, MUSIC, politics--and that cuts across all ages. The hiphop vs everything else battle is a nasty one. When you get told a million times a day by members of an earlier generation that there is nothing good about your culture and it is to blame for everything, you are not in the mood to discuss positives and negatives. Also, it NEVER helps that the automatic assumption/insult, when a fight is not even going on, that older people throw outoften is "so you dont appreciate any other music?" when you tell them you like hip hop. Do we ask if others "only apreciate techno" if that is their answer to what is your favorite music? Nope....the hip hop generation is shot at "verbally" on the daily and that wears on you even if you have issues with where the music is going.....HOWEVER, in an environment like this (but certainly not most message boards) things can be taken slow and both sides approach each other with respect (as you and I and the rest here have) and then both can look critically at the issues.

On other boards I have tried the whole even handed argument thing, and older people would run with it and continue to say "yeah....all rap is garbage and it ruined the community".....after that, I simply attacked them back.....I dont bring a knife to a gun fight know what I mean.

Anyways, this is one of 2 discussions of hip hop I am in right now and both are good. We can defend the art form and help the older ones understand the difference between MTV rap and hip hop culture. It is a good experience for all to set aside prejudice and discuss.

Thanks,

MrBlak

*smilin* :blush: Thank you Brother Pan!

We will always have our problems within the community. Its how we handle them together that will make the difference in the outcome.

And you know what else Brother pan? Many of those children I grew up with are dead or in jail. But the ones who made it through those transitional times come back to the neighborhood even though the faces and buildings have changed.

We have cook outs, share our past stories, and laugh and cry together. We all still hold dear in our hearts the memories of that structured village.

Some of the young children gather around us and feel the connection that we have to each other but its not enough, most of us don't live there any more. So the connection gets broken!