Brothers this is something that we have all had to deal with at one time or another. Much of the rules of dating were created at a time when men made all the money, and women didn't work. In today's times when a woman is just as likely to make as much if not more than a man.

Are the rules of dating still the same? Is a man required to pay for a date if a woman asks him out? Should a man always pay for the 1st date? If you have paid for the last 7 outings...do you expect a woman to treat you sometime? Brothers let me know what you think.

Brothers this is something that we have all had to deal with at one time or another. Much of the rules of <A TITLE="Click for more information about dating" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||dating|AA1VDw">dating</A> were created at a time when men made all the money, and women didn't work. In today's times when a woman is just as likely to make as much if not more than a man.

Are the rules of dating still the same? Is a man required to pay for a date if a woman asks him out? Should a man always pay for the 1st date? If you have paid for the last 7 outings...do you expect a woman to treat you sometime? Brothers let me know what you think.


I believe whoever ask the other person out should pay for the date, and take it from there

Well I'm certainly not a man, but I will give my input. And this is just my opinion and need I say I live by this as well.
First of all, communication is very important, if I ever (and I never) ask a man out to dinner, whoever pays depends on:
1. who have the money,
2. who or which one can afford to buy at the time,
3. depends on what job he/she has that will allow them to eat out,
and if the relationship turns into more,...it really dosen't matter who pays. First of all, I seldom eat out, but when I do, if I ask my mate/friend/husband or whatever we chose to call them, out for dinner, then I have no problem at all paying.

This sounds fair to me Queentswana....I would have no problem with this.

On this issue, I remember this one lady I was friends with. She would always ask me out to movies & events that I was not even interested in...yet she would always expect me to pay (because I was a man). Now I was a college student back then, and was trying to pay my way through. This woman knew this, but still felt that I should pay because I was a man, and had a more prestigious job (in title only). Well one day I did her taxes for her....she made more money than I did!! :cuss: After that I insisted that she start paying for more of our outings.....her refusal was a major reason I ended our friendship (I had no intention of being used). On the other side, she felt I was wrong, and could not understand why I cut her out of my life.

This sounds fair to me Queentswana....I would have no problem with this.

On this issue, I remember this one lady I was friends with. She would always ask me out to movies & events that I was not even interested in...yet she would always expect me to pay (because I was a man). Now I was a college student back then, and was trying to pay my way through. This woman knew this, but still felt that I should pay because I was a man, and had a more prestigious job (in title only). Well one day I did her taxes for her....she made more money than I did!! :cuss: After that I insisted that she start paying for more of our outings.....her refusal was a major reason I ended our friendship (I had no intention of being used). On the other side, she felt I was wrong, and could not understand why I cut her out of my life.

Panafrica, what would you have done if you hadn't found out how much money she made? lol How did you feel about paying before the "revealing"?

A few years back, I would not have given it a second thought in paying for entertainment no matter who asked first, but the dynamics of relationships have changed dramatically and now, even though it's difficult sometimes, I don't have a problem anymore with the lady paying. From talking to other brothers, it's almost expected that the lady should pick up the tab occassionally, so the brothers doesn't feel being used as you mentioned in your post.

I think "pumping" the gas can generate another question along the same vein as the one you asked. LOL! Life is so interesting :confused: :confused:

This sounds fair to me Queentswana....I would have no problem with this.

On this issue, I remember this one lady I was friends with. She would always ask me out to movies & events that I was not even interested in...yet she would always expect me to pay (because I was a man). Now I was a college student back then, and was trying to pay my way through. This woman knew this, but still felt that I should pay because I was a man, and had a more prestigious job (in title only). Well one day I did her taxes for her....she made more money than I did!! :cuss: After that I insisted that she start paying for more of our outings.....her refusal was a major reason I ended our friendship (I had no intention of being used). On the other side, she felt I was wrong, and could not understand why I cut her out of my life.


It just goes to show...different strokes for different folks. She was a fool in no other terms, if I was in her shoes, it would have given me the upmost pleasure to "Treat" you out to dinner...only for the fact that I would be so proud that a black man is about something, and going in the right direction. And being that I could afford it? ...the fact of who's paying, would have never came up...that's on the real! Infact I would go out of my way to show and let him know that what he's becomming of himself is much to be desired, our black men need that kind of backbone and uplifting from their other half. It's a sad thing when one keeps their hand balded to tight. (just my opinion)

Panafrica, what would you have done if you hadn't found out how much money she made? How did you feel about paying before the "revealing"? I don't have a problem anymore with the lady paying. From talking to other brothers, it's almost expected that the lady should pick up the tab occassionally, so the brothers doesn't feel being used as you mentioned in your post.

You answered your own question ZeroGravity: A woman should pick up the tab every once in a while (not necessarily every other time). This is especially true if the male & female are only friends (as was the case between me and this woman).

I agree with Sekhemu in saying whomever ask should pay. I don't think anyone should be paying all the time just because of gender. I think that there is a problem with issues like these, because most women I talk to don't want to pay any tabs or pump gas for their own car. It's kind of funny because when it comes to certain things (bills, dinner, movies, drinks at bars, pumping gas, moving stuff, mowing the lawn, etc) it's the man's job. When there's cooking, housework, changing diapers it should be a joint effort???? Can't have it both ways ladies. :nono: :lol: :lol:
I do think that it should be balanced because in a world where women can and do make more money than men, going out can be expensive if all the burden falls on one person. If both people agree to dinner and a movie, one person pay for dinner, the other pay for the movie and refreshments.

I have not thoroughly read all of the responses to the question asked in this thread but here's what I think.

First of all, I believe "dating" takes place between people who are friends. They are either friends already or want to get to know each other better which could result in friendship. Under those circumstances, I think that when friends do things that cost money, they should pay their own way, unless someone can't afford it and a friend either loans them the money or agrees to give it as a gift to their friendship.

A man shouldn't be expected to pay each time he asks a woman-friend to go out and do something together. A woman can most certainly take responsibility for her own entertainment in this regard. If they want to share and exchange times they pay, they can discuss this and agree, but nothing should ever be assumed by either just because one friend is a man and the other a woman.

When or if a relationship develops into something more serious (courtship where a commitment to each other is made), then the two can share costs as an act to demonstrate how serious they are to each other and a showing of generosity and a giving spirit. These types of things will usually make people smile, feel special and be closer in spirit.

I hope that makes sense.

Queenie :spinstar:

gosh ... i haven't had a date in so long ... i think i'd pay ... :wink:

:heart:

Destee

gosh ... i haven't had a date in so long ... i think i'd pay ... :wink:

If I was single......I'd take you out Destee.....I'd even pay & buy you flowers! :nuts:

you're so sweet Brother Pan ... thank you ... :love:

:heart:

Destee

to me it can go both ways but i feel a man should pay for the date

hey destee we going soon and i'm paying all tabs the roses and all
men should hold this title down like the good old days when guys take
a girl out he pay the way from heart and have a good time out
what ever happen to that ??

roses and all ... ?? ... :eeek: ... :love:

don't be play'n wit my emotions $$RICH$$

:heart:

Destee

I'm not trying to hate, but Rich is lying to you Destee. All that talk about men should always pay.........he knows that he's cheap! Rich wouldn't even take you out to Taco Bell!

Brother Pan ... Brother $$RICH$$ and i plan to meet for breakfast, lunch, dinner, or sump'n ... so i will surely be reporting if he is play'n wit my emotions or if he's in fact the gentle man that he has always presented himself to be ... yall know i'm gonna tell everything! :wink:

:heart:

Destee

Sounds like the pressure is on Rich! :laugh:

I think on the first date it should be tradition for both parties to skip out on the check. Then there's no issue regarding who's paying. :toast:

Maybe I should have asked this question before I responded the first time.

What's the purpose of a DATE?

Queenie :spinstar:

I think the purpose of a date is to supposedly get to know eachother. Unfortunately, people tend to put on a front on the first date so your question is indeed a good one.

I think in lots of cases if the first time meeting on a date
the purpose would be to get to know each other and have
a chat over brunch or Dinner it also can be just friendz getting
together over lunch or dinner if you are friends it can be a nice
friendly date out to enjoy self with no commitment and again
the Man should continue the great tradition to pay way for the lady

Destee ......A man who hold a badge of honor and real , true to him self
and back his action surely will uphold his word , you will tell the great tale
of how you was treated on the date how sweet it was and most of all
u didn't need your purse !!.......lol
I can back the motions looking forward

In the beginning I think the man should pay regardless of income circumstances. I've never dated a man without money, so the issue hasn't ever come up for me. After our 2nd or 3rd date I leave tips and pay cabs.....After I really like him I'll surprise him with a nice gift, or (maybe) treat him, usually for a special day or when congratulations or cheering up are in order.

In the beginning I think the man should pay regardless of income circumstances. I've never dated a man without money, so the issue hasn't ever come up for me. After our 2nd or 3rd date I leave tips and pay cabs.....After I really like him I'll surprise him with a nice <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about gift" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||gifts|AA1VDw">gift</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||gifts|AA1VDw">gift</A>, or (maybe) treat him, usually for a special day or when congratulations or cheering up are in order.


In an ever changing world. With women demanding equal treatment across the board, and they certainly should. Why should the man have to pay initially? Ofcourse unless he's the one who does the asking.

Dancing Nina ... Hello and Welcome. Did you embed the HTML that is in the post below?


Originally Posted by Dancing_Nina
In the beginning I think the man should pay regardless of income circumstances. I've never dated a man without money, so the issue hasn't ever come up for me. After our 2nd or 3rd date I leave tips and pay cabs.....After I really like him I'll surprise him with a nice <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about gift" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||gifts|AA1VDw">gift</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||gifts|AA1VDw">gift</A>, or (maybe) treat him, usually for a special day or when congratulations or cheering up are in order.

:heart:

Destee

In an ever changing world. With women demanding equal treatment across the board, and they certainly should. Why should the man have to pay initially? Ofcourse unless he's the one who does the asking.


Yup, a woman better not forget that pocketbook on every date or she'll find herself washing some dishes. I'm not paying everytime, especially when she hits me with a line like "I want to go out and eat" or "Wanna go out to dinner". If she initiates it, she better be willing to pay. Sometimes I'll still pay, but don't think I'll pay everytime regardless of who initiates the outting. :smash: :smash:I DON'T TRICK MY MONEY AWAY. :smash: :smash: I mean really, why should a guy pay all the time. Like we're supposed to be so grateful to have a date that we have to spend money??? :laugh: I don't think so. I'll take my brother to dinner before I flush all my money down the drain on a woman just because she feels she's entitled to a free meal.

The one who asks the other on the date should pay IMO....and once a stable relationship is initiated...then man and woman should treat each other and alternate...or if they feel like it, go "dutch".

[QUOTE=Destee]Dancing Nina ... Hello and Welcome. Did you embed the HTML that is in the post below?




:heart:

Hi Destee-- great forum BTW.... not sure if you were asking if I embedded the HTML or if the person who quoted me did?


Everyone I'm not saying that men should pay. Just that I wont. I'll never ask a man out, never call him up and tell him he should take me out to eat 'cause I'm hungry. I never have --and if things keep going at this rate, I never will. On any given week +/- 100 men ask me out, offer their phone numbers,ask for mine. If a guy wants to be with me, basically I don't have to work for it--He does.

Yes I believe in equality-I'm as much of a human being as a man is. But I also insist on being treated like a lady-- I want my doors opened, my cigarette lit, and my tab payed. I'll always have your bath drawn, breakfast ready for you when you get out of the shower, and a sympathetic ear and massaging hands waiting in the evening.

I've never dated a man who needed to be convinced that I deserved these things, and the issue of me paying has only come up once. I was dating a guy who I didn't think had much money ( I think he was having car probs, or someone in his family was sick or something). While stopping at the gas station I picked up a few things like a magazine, candy, water etc. and proceeded to pay for it. He put his hand out and pulled out his wallet, and I said "no sweetie I've got it." he gave me a look ( a very sweet one though) and handed his money to the cashier. Once we got in the car. He said to me " It doesn't look good for you to pay. Don't ever embarrass me by pulling out your purse while we are together"

Sooooo I say if you wanna date Nina, you had better bring some cash, 'cause I'm not paying for diddly during the first few dates.

[QUOTE=Destee]Dancing Nina ... Hello and Welcome. Did you embed the HTML that is in the post below?




:heart:

Hi Destee-- great forum BTW.... not sure if you were asking if I embedded the HTML or if the person who quoted me did?


Everyone I'm not saying that men should pay. Just that I wont. I'll never ask a man out, never call him up and tell him he should take me out to eat 'cause I'm hungry. I never have --and if things keep going at this rate, I never will. On any given week +/- 100 men ask me out, offer their phone numbers,ask for mine. If a guy wants to be with me, basically I don't have to work for it--He does.

Yes I believe in equality-I'm as much of a human being as a man is. But I also insist on being treated like a lady-- I want my doors opened, my cigarette lit, and my tab payed. I'll always have your bath drawn, breakfast ready for you when you get out of the shower, and a sympathetic ear and massaging hands waiting in the evening.

I've never dated a man who needed to be convinced that I deserved these things, and the issue of me paying has only come up once. I was <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about dating" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||dating|AA1VDw">dating</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||dating|AA1VDw">dating</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||dating|AA1VDw">dating</A> a guy who I didn't think had much money ( I think he was having <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about car" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||cars|AA1VDw">car</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||cars|AA1VDw">car</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||cars|AA1VDw">car</A> probs, or someone in his family was sick or something). While stopping at the gas station I picked up a few things like a magazine, candy, water etc. and proceeded to pay for it. He put his hand out and pulled out his wallet, and I said "no sweetie I've got it." he gave me a look ( a very sweet one though) and handed his money to the cashier. Once we got in the car. He said to me " It doesn't look good for you to pay. Don't ever embarrass me by pulling out your purse while we are together"

Sooooo I say if you wanna date Nina, you had better bring some cash, 'cause I'm not paying for diddly during the first few dates.


I see, you want to be treated equal, but when it comes to taking you out, you want to be treated special. Perhaps a little more than equal?

I can't help but think there seems to be a quid pro quo element to all of this and the issue of having to have money is a little interesting as well.

Hi Destee-- great forum BTW.... not sure if you were asking if I embedded the HTML or if the person who quoted me did?

Yes Sister, i was asking you. Brother Sekhemu has been here for a while, and i've never seen that before ... i just assumed it was something you might have added ... but i guess i should be asking him too. The reason i asked is because it looks as though it was trying to embed HTML, which the software won't allow, but it's kind of an underhanded way of self promotion (the links are some sort of affiliate program).

I've never seen this attempted here before, so i asked if you were the one who had done it ... but Brother Sekhemu, if you did it ... speak up! ... i'll also say it's not allowed here.

Sister Dancing Nina ... so glad you enjoy the community, it's a pleasure having you with us! Please make yourself at home, because you are!

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

Yes Sister, i was asking you. Brother Sekhemu has been here for a while, and i've never seen that before ... i just assumed it was something you might have added ... but i guess i should be asking him too. The reason i asked is because it looks as though it was trying to embed HTML, which the software won't allow, but it's kind of an underhanded way of self promotion (the links are some sort of affiliate program).

I've never seen this attempted here before, so i asked if you were the one who had done it ... but Brother Sekhemu, if you did it ... speak up! ... i'll also say it's not allowed here.

Sister Dancing Nina ... so glad you enjoy the community, it's a pleasure having you with us! Please make yourself at home, because you are!

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee


No Destee, it wasn't my doing hon

You know what, I can't even fault some women for thinking that way. After all, if some men would just speak up and grow a pair then this wouldn't even be an issue. Men know good and well they don't want to pay every tab, but they have been taught that it's the way to do things. I think that some men feel that if they don't do these things then they won't be successful with women. On the other hand, if you feel you have to do these things to keep a woman interested, then why do you want that woman? :puke: I like a good looking woman as much (if not more) than the next man, but I can pass if the price isn't right. There is no shortage of women where I am. I mean, I'm not cheap....it's just the principle of it. What makes my money different than yours? If you are a good woman I still won't pay for every bill and I shouldn't have to.
But I do see what you're saying Nina......if they'll shell it out .....why not?? :peace:

You know what, I can't even fault some women for thinking that way. After all, if some men would just speak up and grow a pair then this wouldn't even be an issue. Men know good and well they don't want to pay every tab, but they have been taught that it's the way to do things. I think that some men feel that if they don't do these things then they won't be successful with women. On the other hand, if you feel you have to do these things to keep a woman interested, then why do you want that woman? :puke: I like a good looking woman as much (if not more) than the next man, but I can pass if the price isn't right. There is no shortage of women where I am. I mean, I'm not cheap....it's just the principle of it. What makes my money different than yours? If you are a good woman I still won't pay for every bill and I shouldn't have to.
But I do see what you're saying Nina......if they'll shell it out .....why not?? :peace:


Kente, your killin' me here :rolling:

I just replied to a post, No links or html tags here...it only seems to come up when I'm being quoted though.

Automatically parse text in links is checked -----could that be it? Perhaps I have something evil on my computer system that's doing this? I'm going to switch over to one of the other computers and see what happens. If it keeps up, I'll quit posting until i can get it taken care of.

I see, you want to be treated equal, but when it comes to taking you out, you want to be treated special. Perhaps a little more than equal?

I can't help but think there seems to be a quid pro quo element to all of this and the issue of having to have money is a little interesting as well.

In general I am a man's equal, but in romantic issues we each take certain roles and I choose good old fashioned lady-like, and he can play my gentleman caller. YESS I want to be treated special on dates, 'cause I am special and I treat my men very special, and this is a special time. We can get all PC once we have to deal with our 9-5 jobs and school and the neighbors, but for the next 2-6 hours of our date this is our special time. Yes one of my requirements along with good hygiene, manners, family background etc. is that a man has a decent income. I don't want to struggle, and I won't. Men have no problem saying that they want attractive women (of course in addition to all of the other qualities that she must posess), but a woman isn't allowed to add financial stability into the mix??? I'm smart, I'm sexy, I'm sweet, and I know how to keep a man happy. And I insist on getting the things I want.

I don't need a 7 bedroom/5 bath home or four cars. I do need to know that we can safely take an early retirement to focus on giving, enjoying and helping our world, and each other.
I don't need 2 vacations yearly in Thailand, but I do need to know that we won't have to work our selves to death in order to take off some time to enjoy life and each other, or take care of our family, spirit, body when we want/need to.
Diamonds don't mean a thing to me, but comfort does. And money is a tool to help you get those things, Beauty, charm and wit are some of the tools in my box. I'm just looking for a guy who needs the tools that I have so we can share a toolbox.
With the men I've dated It just hasn't ever been an issue. I've never brought it up. I keep money on me for safety reasons--What if he get sick and has to go to the ER or what if there's a fire and we get seperated? But the only man who regularly gets my $$ is my little brother.....Now if I love someone and he looses his $$ thats a different story. The love of my life was laid off for almost 2 years, and I had no problem staying by his side......But this man has proven himself and I knew tht it was only a matter of time before he was back on top! Plus I just love him to darn much to leave!

I just replied to a post, No links or html tags here...it only seems to come up when I'm being quoted though.

Automatically parse text in links is checked -----could that be it? Perhaps I have something evil on my computer system that's doing this? I'm going to switch over to one of the other computers and see what happens. If it keeps up, I'll quit posting until i can get it taken care of.

It could be a program loaded on your system, that you are unaware of. Getting traffic to sites is a business all by itself, and some folk don't care how they get it. If you can't find what's causing it, it's not really necessary to stop posting, as the links are not formatted here anyway. I was just wondering if it was intentional or not.

Automatically parse is kewl, you can leave that checked.

Again, thanks for joining us!

Brother Sekhemu ... thanks for your response as well.

:heart:

Destee

gosh ... i haven't had a date in so long ... i think i'd pay ... :wink:

:heart:

Destee


Hmmmmmm :flirt: Oops almost forgot I'm married . :hammer:

don't be try'n ta get me kilt up in here Brother Sekhemu ... :smash:

:love:

Destee

I just replied to a post, No links or html tags here...it only seems to come up when I'm being quoted though.

Automatically parse text in links is checked -----could that be it? Perhaps I have something evil on my computer system that's doing this? I'm going to switch over to one of the other <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about computers" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||computers|AA1VDw">computers</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||computers|AA1VDw">computers</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||computers|AA1VDw">computers</A> and see what happens. If it keeps up, I'll quit posting until i can get it taken care of.



In general I am a man's equal, but in romantic issues we each take certain roles and I choose good old fashioned lady-like, and he can play my gentleman caller. YESS I want to be treated special on dates, 'cause I am special and I treat my men very special, and this is a special time. We can get all PC once we have to deal with our 9-5 <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about job" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw">job</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw">job</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw">job</A>s and school and the neighbors, but for the next 2-6 hours of our date this is our special time. Yes one of my requirements along with good hygiene, manners, family background etc. is that a man has a decent income. I don't want to struggle, and I won't. Men have no problem saying that they want attractive women (of course in addition to all of the other qualities that she must posess), but a woman isn't allowed to add financial stability into the mix??? I'm smart, I'm sexy, I'm sweet, and I know how to keep a man happy. And I insist on getting the things I want.

I don't need a 7 bedroom/5 bath home or four <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about car" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||cars|AA1VDw">car</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||cars|AA1VDw">car</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||cars|AA1VDw">car</A>s. I do need to know that we can safely take an early retirement to focus on giving, enjoying and helping our world, and each other.
I don't need 2 vacations yearly in Thailand, but I do need to know that we won't have to work our selves to death in order to take off some time to enjoy life and each other, or take care of our family, spirit, body when we want/need to.
Diamonds don't mean a thing to me, but comfort does. And money is a tool to help you get those things, Beauty, charm and wit are some of the tools in my box. I'm just looking for a guy who needs the tools that I have so we can share a toolbox.
With the men I've dated It just hasn't ever been an issue. I've never brought it up. I keep money on me for safety reasons--What if he get sick and has to go to the ER or what if there's a fire and we get seperated? But the only man who regularly gets my $$ is my little brother.....Now if I love someone and he looses his $$ thats a different story. The love of my life was laid off for almost 2 years, and I had no problem staying by his side......But this man has proven himself and I knew tht it was only a matter of time before he was back on top! Plus I just love him to darn much to leave!


What do you define as a decent income. It seems to me that there are no guarantees in life, as you yourself pointed out should the man ever lose the money he has. Having said that, if retiring comfortably or early is a goal of yours, why not have the money yourself before you get seriously involved with a man? WHen you do find that man you describe hopefully he would have as much tucked away if not more than you do.

My wife makes 3 times more than me, and when she met me she had more money saved up than I did. She made the choice of putting away more than enough to take care of herself and then some, even if she never got married.

But there is another thing I'm curious about. When you do date a man, is it important that he has a "decent" income at the outset?

And lastly, you mentioned your ex having proven himself. Do men have to prove themself to you, and if so based on what? Something done or not done by another man before he came along? Do woman have to "prove" themselves to a man?

don't be try'n ta get me kilt up in here Brother Sekhemu ... :smash:

:love:

Destee


Nah! never that :grin:

What do you define as a decent income. It seems to me that there are no guarantees in life, as you yourself pointed out should the man ever lose the money he has. Having said that, if retiring comfortably or early is a goal of yours, why not have the money yourself before you get seriously involved with a man? WHen you do find that man you describe hopefully he would have as much tucked away if not more than you do.

My wife makes 3 times more than me, and when she met me she had more money saved up than I did. She made the choice of putting away more than enough to take care of herself and then some, even if she never got married.

But there is another thing I'm curious about. When you do date a man, is it important that he has a "decent" income at the outset?

Nope no guarantees!!!! Everyone operates differently, and I don't judge anyone for thier choices. I know I prefer to put most of my energy into my family and my man, and I enjoy being spoiled in return. So I choose to date men who can and will provide that without a problem. I don't lie, cheat or trick them, and it works out for us!
A decent income means he should be comfortable. If he makes $250,000 yearly but spends $300,000 that won't work for me. If he makes only $40,000 but turns that into an additional $15,000 and saves and invests wisely then that would work much better for me.

I'm happy that things have worked out for you and your wife. It's always a struggle to find a compatible mate,and fianancial compatibility is always an issue. I grew up in a home where my mother was better educated, from a "higher" social standing and made much more money than my father...It worked for her, but in the end didn't work for him. From thier situation I learned to be completely honest upfront and to review the situation regularly so that issues can be nipped in the bud.

I don't think a person's value lies in how much $$ they have, or how attractive they are, or thier social background-but in how that person brings balance and completeness into my life.

BTW -- not trying to jack the thread!

Nope no guarantees!!!! Everyone operates differently, and I don't judge anyone for thier choices. I know I prefer to put most of my energy into my family and my man, and I enjoy being spoiled in return. So I choose to date men who can and will provide that without a problem. I don't lie, cheat or trick them, and it works out for us!
A decent income means he should be comfortable. If he makes $250,000 yearly but spends $300,000 that won't work for me. If he makes only $40,000 but turns that into an additional $15,000 and saves and invests wisely then that would work much better for me.

I'm happy that things have worked out for you and your wife. It's always a struggle to find a compatible mate,and fianancial compatibility is always an issue. I grew up in a home where my mother was better educated, from a "higher" social standing and made much more money than my father...It worked for her, but in the end didn't work for him. From thier situation I learned to be completely honest upfront and to review the situation regularly so that issues can be nipped in the bud.

I don't think a person's value lies in how much $$ they have, or how attractive they are, or thier social background-but in how that person brings balance and completeness into my life.


Thanks for the comment. I think financial compatabilty is an issue for those who expect have unrealistic expectations on the other person, and/or make money the end all be all to the relationship. There is also the issue of what I call spend some, save some, give some away. Because charity is as important as making it.

It's unfortunate that so many of our people spend as much time as we do concerned with money for the wrong reasons. Particuliarly when <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about dating" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||dating|AA1VDw">dating</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||dating|AA1VDw">dating</A>. If a woman expects a man to have money when she meets him, that takes the focus off of getting to know who this person really is.

Men are reading the wrong messages when a woman expects the man to pay for the date, to men it means that the woman owes him something. After a few dates he believes the woman owes him sex. This is the message that is coming across. Naturally when the woman says no, it doesn't mean sex, that's when the kaakaa hits the fan.

I think some women want chivalry but also want to wear the pants at the same time. Women like this want to be taken care of and be treated equal to the man at the same time.

This is why I say you can't want independence and chivalry simultaneously. Because this sends men the wrong message.

True independence means that you can take care of yourself with our without a man. And you don't expect a man to do anything for you that you wouldn't do yourself.

You haven't answered my question about whether a man has to have a "decent" income before he dates you?

Also I can relate to you being family oriented. But do you think it would be wiser if you had enough money put away to do the things you mentioned like retiring early etc, before you get serious with a man?

You never answered my question.

Thanks for the comment. I think financial compatabilty is an issue for those who expect have unrealistic expectations on the other person, and/or make money the end all be all to the relationship.
YOu are welcome to your opinion-- and I've said a million times it isn;t the end all or be all, just one of MY requirements.



It's unfortunate that so many of our people spend as much time as we do concerned with money for the wrong reasons. Right and wrong are relative and what is a concern of yours may not be for me and vice versa

Particuliarly whena woman expects a man to have money when she meets him, that takes the focus off of getting to know who this person really is.
Let me tell you from my experience nothing takes the focus off of getting to know someone like worrying about bills.


Men are reading the wrong messages when a woman expects the man to pay for the date, to men it means that the woman owes him something. After a few dates he believes the woman owes him sex. This is the message that is coming across. Naturally when the woman says no, it doesn't mean sex, that's when the kaakaa hits the fan.
For a person without a generous dispostion, the act of giving will always demand an equal gift in return. The many men with extra finances that I've dated don't have a problem sharing-- esp for something as simple as a date-- I don't ask for extravagant gifts, in fact I rarely ask for anything. A guy without a genereous heart will feel that he's lost something and wants something in return. A woman who isn't really interested in someone will feel that her sex or attention warrants $$. she isn't giving that because she honestly enjoys spending time with the man.



I think some women want chivalry but also want to wear the pants at the same time. Women like this want to be taken care of and be treated equal to the man at the same time.Well I certainly am not that kind of woman, Any guy I've dated long term has been a "head of the household" kind of guy. We make decisions together, but he has the final say (on most issues) of course there has been a lot of leeway because I wasn't actually married any of these guys, but if I don't see that quality in a man he isn't for me--Not that there is anything wrong with him-it's just not my cup of tea.




This is why I say you can't want independence and chivalry simultaneously. Because this sends men the wrong message.

True independence means that you can take care of yourself with our without a man. And you don't expect a man to do anything for you that you wouldn't do yourself. I take very good care of myself , and I believe thats a major reason men are attracted to me. It isn't an issue of what I wouldn't do for myself, but of dividing some of the responsibilities in a home to economize on time and energy. No one is conpletely independent, WE all need love, security, and to feel needed among other things. Every one has different needs, desires and abilities , which is why we all date different kinds of people. The men I date like me, they tend to not enjoy dating women with major 50-70 hour a week careers.
I don't like to date men who can't provide me with stability and security.



You haven't answered my question about whether a man has to have a "decent" income before he dates? Just before he dates me! --Now I've had a few flings w/ men who didn't meet all my standards, and I've been a fling for a few guys who felt I didn't posess all the qualities they wanted, but for a serious relationship, there are certain things I insist upon.



Also I can relate to you being family oriented. But do you think it would be wiser if you had enough money put away to do the things you mentioned like retiring early etc, before you get serious with a man?
I don't have a family now and I came into this world with enough money to see me through as long as I act responsibly. I wouldn't have any children until my family situation was in place......for me thats a strong provider as a husband who can protect, guide and care for his family...............................as a side note I'm generally attracted to older men 20+ years. so they are at the age where their career and investments are stable.-- I'm not talking feeble old men, but the sexy muscular late 40's- mid 50's guys.

YOu are welcome to your opinion-- and I've said a million times it isn;t the end all or be all, just one of MY requirements.


Right and wrong are relative and what is a concern of yours may not be for me and vice versa


Let me tell you from my experience nothing takes the focus off of getting to know someone like worrying about bills.


For a person without a generous dispostion, the act of giving will always demand an equal <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about gift" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||gifts|AA1VDw">gift</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||gifts|AA1VDw">gift</A> in return. The many men with extra finances that I've dated don't have a problem sharing-- esp for something as simple as a date-- I don't ask for extravagant gifts, in fact I rarely ask for anything. A guy without a genereous heart will feel that he's lost something and wants something in return. A woman who isn't really interested in someone will feel that her sex or attention warrants $$. she isn't giving that because she honestly enjoys spending time with the man.


Well I certainly am not that kind of woman, Any guy I've dated long term has been a "head of the household" kind of guy. We make decisions together, but he has the final say (on most issues) of course there has been a lot of leeway because I wasn't actually married any of these guys, but if I don't see that quality in a man he isn't for me--Not that there is anything wrong with him-it's just not my cup of tea.



I take very good care of myself , and I believe thats a major reason men are attracted to me. It isn't an issue of what I wouldn't do for myself, but of dividing some of the responsibilities in a home to economize on time and energy. No one is conpletely independent, WE all need love, security, and to feel needed among other things. Every one has different needs, desires and abilities , which is why we all date different kinds of people. The men I date like me, they tend to not enjoy <A TITLE="Click for more information about <A TITLE="Click for more information about dating" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||dating|AA1VDw">dating</A>" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||dating|AA1VDw">dating</A> women with major 50-70 hour a week careers.
I don't like to date men who can't provide me with stability and security.


Just before he dates me! --Now I've had a few flings w/ men who didn't meet all my standards, and I've been a fling for a few guys who felt I didn't posess all the qualities they wanted, but for a serious relationship, there are certain things I insist upon.


I don't have a family now and I came into this world with enough money to see me through as long as I act responsibly. I wouldn't have any children until my family situation was in place......for me thats a strong provider as a husband who can protect, guide and care for his family...............................as a side note I'm generally attracted to older men 20+ years. so they are at the age where their career and investments are stable.-- I'm not talking feeble old men, but the sexy muscular late 40's- mid 50's guys.
First of all the points I made were in general. I thought it was interesting that you took it to mean you specifically. If I wanted to address you, it would have been made very clear

So there is no need to put what I said in quotations, ofcourse unless you feel defensive in some way.

Funny that you would want to get to know a person at the outset by discussing money or bills. Perhaps you work in a profession where money is constantly a focus? By the way what do you do for a living?

From my experience, a man of 40 years young, discussing money before you really get to know someone is in very poor taste, you obviously have a different value system.

Does generosity translate into "him" spending money rather than sharing something intangible with just as much value, if not more?

If this generosity is based on something simple as a date, then I should think you would have no problem spending money on him either, right?

You are jumping from men being attracted to you because of your looks i.e. taking care of yourself, to sharing responsibilities and economizing time and energy. My point was why do you need to wait until after you get married to have more resources than you would need for the things you want in your latter years. This is like waiting on a man to come and help you get them rather than doing for self.

Or is it that because of your looks you feel that you deserve this?

You are waiting for a man to provide you with something that you will not or cannot do on your own. This is a surefire way to be disappointed in the long run.

Nah! never that :grin:

awwwww ... okay ... :driveby:

:lol:

Such a blessing to have you with us Brother Sekhemu, it would be an honor to meet your Queen. Please ask her to join us. :love:

:heart:

Destee

awwwww ... okay ... :driveby:

:lol:

Such a blessing to have you with us Brother Sekhemu, it would be an honor to meet your Queen. Please ask her to join us. :love:

:heart:

Destee


She has, but you don't know that she's my wife

Well it's obvious that not only the last post, but this one also was directed at me--And over the yeas in various forums that I've participated in it's been PRETTY common to divide up posts.....At this point I'd rather take our discussion off board out of respect to every one else since the original ?? is who should pay for the date, and you and I are the only ones involved in the tangent. You will have to PM me for that since it isn't one of my user capabilities. But I'm not to pressed either way since we probably won't ever be dating.
YOu seem to be taking this awfully personal though---Why is that? OH and I've never asked a man how much money he makes... Jumpin' to conclusions huh?

BTW in order to avoid the HTML inserts when quoting someone's previous post simply delete any inserted ad links--I noticed them throughout the board on a few other postings.

YOu are welcome to your opinion-- and I've said a million times it isn;t the end all or be all, just one of MY requirements.


Right and wrong are relative and what is a concern of yours may not be for me and vice versa


Let me tell you from my experience nothing takes the focus off of getting to know someone like worrying about bills.


For a person without a generous dispostion, the act of giving will always demand an equal <A TITLE="Click for more information about gift" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||gifts|AA1VDw">gift</A> in return. The many men with extra finances that I've dated don't have a problem sharing-- esp for something as simple as a date-- I don't ask for extravagant gifts, in fact I rarely ask for anything. A guy without a genereous heart will feel that he's lost something and wants something in return. A woman who isn't really interested in someone will feel that her sex or attention warrants $$. she isn't giving that because she honestly enjoys spending time with the man.


Well I certainly am not that kind of woman, Any guy I've dated long term has been a "head of the household" kind of guy. We make decisions together, but he has the final say (on most issues) of course there has been a lot of leeway because I wasn't actually married any of these guys, but if I don't see that quality in a man he isn't for me--Not that there is anything wrong with him-it's just not my cup of tea.



I take very good care of myself , and I believe thats a major reason men are attracted to me. It isn't an issue of what I wouldn't do for myself, but of dividing some of the responsibilities in a home to economize on time and energy. No one is conpletely independent, WE all need love, security, and to feel needed among other things. Every one has different needs, desires and abilities , which is why we all date different kinds of people. The men I date like me, they tend to not enjoy <A TITLE="Click for more information about dating" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||dating|AA1VDw">dating</A> women with major 50-70 hour a week careers.
I don't like to date men who can't provide me with stability and security.


Just before he dates me! --Now I've had a few flings w/ men who didn't meet all my standards, and I've been a fling for a few guys who felt I didn't posess all the qualities they wanted, but for a serious relationship, there are certain things I insist upon.


I don't have a family now and I came into this world with enough money to see me through as long as I act responsibly. I wouldn't have any children until my family situation was in place......for me thats a strong provider as a husband who can protect, guide and care for his family...............................as a side note I'm generally attracted to older men 20+ years. so they are at the age where their career and investments are stable.-- I'm not talking feeble old men, but the sexy muscular late 40's- mid 50's guys.


Let me ask you something else, just out of curiousity, how many relationships have you been in? I noticed you mention "men" a number of times

Well it's obvious that not only the last post, but this one also was directed at me--And over the yeas in various forums that I've participated in it's been PRETTY common to divide up posts.....At this point I'd rather take our discussion off board out of respect to every one else since the original ?? is who should pay for the date, and you and I are the only ones involved in the tangent. You will have to PM me for that since it isn't one of my user capabilities.
But I'm not to pressed either way since we probably won't ever be dating.

BTW in order to avoid the HTML inserts when quoting someone's previous post simply delete any inserted ad links--I noticed them throughout the board on a few other postings.


I don't mince words my friend. I wrote about something I've experienced in general, not directly at you. Unfortunately you took it personal. No harm intended

She has, but you don't know that she's my wife

Oh Wow!!!! What a Blessing !!!! Gosh !!! I'm so honored !!! :love:

We have so many fabulous Sisters in this community, there are many who i could guess from ... so i won't even try ... hmmmm ... but come to think of it ... it's problee Sister Joyce ... i see how yall be try'n ta fuss with each other all the time, while at the same time, gett'n tea and coffee and stuff ... :lol: ... oh gosh ... that's some funny stuff ... :)

I'm even more honored now, than before Brother Sekhemu. We have many "Families" here, Kings, Queens, Sisters, Brothers, Children, Grandparents ... in real life, coming here together. It's a blessing to be the place where folk feel comfortable bringing their Family. Yes, i am honored Brother. Thank You.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

I don't mince words my friend. I wrote about something I've experienced in general, not directly at you. Unfortunately you took it personal. No harm intended

Oh don't back track now sweet pea...YOu used "you" several times, and repeated a question you asked ME in your post....Now either there was a grammar issue in your posting or you are trying to make a direct attack seem sweet and innocent.

And what is your intent behind the "how many men question, and what do you do for aliving etc" Getting ready for a little madonna/whore judgement......babe I'm impervious to it, but if you insist, once again I ask for a PM otherwise I'm done here 'cause I've already given my input about paying for dates, and now we are talking about another thing.....but maybe you want to starta a new thread?

Oh don't back track now sweet pea...YOu used "you" several times, and repeated a question you asked ME in your post....Now either there was a grammar issue in your posting or you are trying to make a direct attack seem sweet and innocent.

And what is your intent behind the "how many men question, and what do you do for aliving etc" Getting ready for a little madonna/whore judgement......babe I'm impervious to it, but if you insist, once again I ask for a PM otherwise I'm done here 'cause I've already given my input about paying for dates, and now we are talking about another thing.....but maybe you want to starta a new thread?


Excuse me? sweet pea? You need to refrain from calling me that, Seriously and immediately. You mentioned men several times in the context of dating. But you go on to rant and rave about how many men have treated you and spent money on you. So why are you crying when I ask you about how many men you've dated? Why the thin skin for now?

what is my intent? my intent is find out why money is so important to you? why you seem so pre-occupied by it.

Make an attack? who are you that I need to attack you, I don't even know you? You give yourself too much credit there.

Oh Wow!!!! What a Blessing !!!! Gosh !!! I'm so honored !!! :love:

We have so many fabulous Sisters in this community, there are many who i could guess from ... so i won't even try ... hmmmm ... but come to think of it ... it's problee Sister Joyce ... i see how yall be try'n ta fuss with each other all the time, while at the same time, gett'n tea and coffee and stuff ... :lol: ... oh gosh ... that's some funny stuff ... :)

I'm even more honored now, than before Brother Sekhemu. We have many "Families" here, Kings, Queens, Sisters, Brothers, Children, Grandparents ... in real life, coming here together. It's a blessing to be the place where folk feel comfortable bringing their Family. Yes, i am honored Brother. Thank You.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee


No it's not joyce, nooooooooooooooo :puke2:

Oh my bad, I'm told that you're a "dancer" it all makes sense to me now, crystal clear :read:

No it's not joyce, nooooooooooooooo :puke2:

don't be try'n ta be mean now ... you'll be gett'n her :coffee: in a minute.

:heart:

Destee

don't be try'n ta be mean now ... you'll be gett'n her :coffee: in a minute.

:heart:

Destee
Destee if I was mean, I'd be banned from the forum :eeek: she's big enough to get her own :coffee: now

Excuse me? sweet pea? You need to refrain from calling me that, Seriously and immediately. You mentioned men several times in the context of dating. But you go on to rant and rave about how many men have treated you and spent money on you. So why are you crying when I ask you about how many men you've dated? Why the thin skin for now?

what is my intent? my intent is find out why money is so important to you? why you seem so pre-occupied by it.

Make an attack? who are you that I need to attack you, I don't even know you? You give yourself too much credit there.



:grouphug: there isn't a single hug icon , but you seem like you really need one....And you haven't offended me in the least. I'm actually being entertained! I never ranted and raved, you keep asking "me" questions which I answer, but enough again! When you are ready to move this to the appropriate space we can continue. again
:grouphug:

don't be try'n ta be mean now ... you'll be gett'n her :coffee: in a minute.

:heart:

Destee
I don't get the coffee thing??

:grouphug: there isn't a single hug icon , but you seem like you really need one....And you haven't offended me in the least. I'm actually being entertained! I never ranted and raved, you keep asking "me" questions which I answer, but enough again! When you are ready to move this to the appropriate space we can continue. again
:grouphug:


hahahahah nah my wife is "huggin" very well tonight. Trust me on that. But we can start something new tommorrow. I know you seek my guidance :teach: Good night our new friend Nina! ;)

hahahahah nah my wife is "huggin" very well tonight. Trust me on that. But we can start something new tommorrow. I know you seek my guidance :teach: Good night our new friend Nina! ;)
My godness you are FUNNY!

I don't get the coffee thing??


no we were talkin about another member that's constantly harassing me. A female member, just follow some of the threads I post in the religion forum on melanin and you'll find out!

I just worked up my nerves to ask a guy whom I've liked for sometime out today. I guess since I asked him I'm the one who should pay....huh?
I don't mind paying, just thrilled to death I finally asked and he said yes!...lol
:spin:

I just worked up my nerves to ask a guy whom I've liked for sometime out today. I guess since I asked him I'm the one who should pay....huh? I don't mind paying, just thrilled to death I finally asked and he said yes!...lol

I assume this guy is a southern gentleman (which is the only type of man I'd assume my little sister Nita would be interested in)? Is this case I'd expect him to pay; however, as brother Kente417Mojo said ealier....bring your pocketbook just in case. For the record I do think a man should pay for the 1st date....however after 7..8..9..10..11....I'd have to say, "You are working aren't you?" :smash:

...Joyce stepping in to put her 2 cents in the basket.


I think that it all depends on what the man wants to accomplish. If it's just lunch or dinner between co-workers and he asked, he should pay. If he wants to get close to "her", he had better pay for the dinner and then gauge the cost against what it is that he wants to accomplish. If he is looking for a wife and sees a "difficult catch" that he'd like to have, then he will have to decide if it will be Red Lobster or Burger King. If he's just wanting sex from anything that will lay down long enuff, then that can go from "FREE" to McDonalds and a six pack. It all depends on what type of woman you are looking for and what you want to accomplish with her.

lol@ Joyce !

bringing this topic back!

Brothers this is something that we have all had to deal with at one time or another. Much of the rules of dating were created at a time when men made all the money, and women didn't work. In today's times when a woman is just as likely to make as much if not more than a man.

Are the rules of dating still the same? Is a man required to pay for a date if a woman asks him out? Should a man always pay for the 1st date? If you have paid for the last 7 outings...do you expect a woman to treat you sometime? Brothers let me know what you think.


In my opinion, the one who does the asking, should pay for the date. After that I think it's fair to take turns, that way if things don't work out, nobody can complain about being taken advantage of.

Let me first state, that I FULLy support SEK's statements here (as usual), along with those of several others here.

YOu are welcome to your opinion-- and I've said a million times it isn;t the end all or be all, just one of MY requirements.


Right and wrong are relative and what is a concern of yours may not be for me and vice versa

The issue I have with this "man takes care of the woman" mentality, is that it's a position of convenience.......This institutionalized prostitution is one where the woman can feel like a piece of property, whenever it's convenient for her, and then feel like a whole person otherwise.

I think people need to really re-examine many of these outmoded values that we strive to hold onto.

"Old-fashioned" translates into misogyny.

Let me tell you from my experience nothing takes the focus off of getting to know someone like worrying about bills.

I'm sorry, but this is ludicrous.

If you are worrying about your bills, then you need to be home (or out working) trying to take care of them.......Not out on a date, trying to get to know someone.

I really don't think that you thought that one all the way through.

For a person without a generous dispostion, the act of giving will always demand an equal gift in return. The many men with extra finances that I've dated don't have a problem sharing-- esp for something as simple as a date-- I don't ask for extravagant gifts, in fact I rarely ask for anything. A guy without a genereous heart will feel that he's lost something and wants something in return. A woman who isn't really interested in someone will feel that her sex or attention warrants $$. she isn't giving that because she honestly enjoys spending time with the man.

This is a cop-out, and it indicates to me that you may not have the best understanding of the MIND ("heart" is not the issue) of a man.

Any man that suscribes to the same outmoded way of thinking has questionable intent in mind.

Why would I need to spend money on someone else, just to "have a good time"?

Ask yourself, would these same men have an equally "generous heart", if one of their male buddies expected them to pay each and every time?

If so, and if there are/were no expectations on his part, what then would be the difference between genders.

Well I certainly am not that kind of woman, Any guy I've dated long term has been a "head of the household" kind of guy. We make decisions together, but he has the final say (on most issues) of course there has been a lot of leeway because I wasn't actually married any of these guys,

Perfect example of the "convenience" that I spoke of earlier. You wish to be "taken care of", but not TOLD WHAT TO DO.

If you are "making decisions together", and if there is any sort of "leeway", then he is not truly "head of the household".

I think people need to have a taste of reality, and visit cultures in this world (past and present) that TRULY operate from the classical Patriarchial perspective.

Do you know that you wouldn't even have a choice as to who you "dated" (there wouldn't even BE any dating) or married?

In those cultures, if a man chooses you as a wife, then that's it. "Bring it on home woman", because you BELONG (<==emphasis) to him.

Not only would that be an eye-opener for most women, but most women would be quickly rebuking these obsolete, so-called "old-fashioned", Biblical ideals.

but if I don't see that quality in a man he isn't for me--Not that there is anything wrong with him-it's just not my cup of tea.

As I stated before, you wouldn't even have a say in the matter, if these rules were played properly (re: not just to your convenience).

I take very good care of myself , and I believe thats a major reason men are attracted to me.

Again, this is an indicator that you may not have the best understanding of the MIND of a man.

And I've spoken many times on here, about the difference between BELIEF and KNOWLEDGE.

It isn't an issue of what I wouldn't do for myself, but of dividing some of the responsibilities in a home to economize on time and energy.

This is a different animal entirely, from the one you've been speaking of thus far.

No one is conpletely independent, WE all need love, security, and to feel needed among other things. Every one has different needs, desires and abilities , which is why we all date different kinds of people. The men I date like me, they tend to not enjoy dating women with major 50-70 hour a week careers.

The funny thing is, I have heard you state over and over the requirements that you have in a man, but never what you TRULY have to offer.

And being available on-call does not count as a prerequisite.

What is it that you "offer", that would make me--or any (unsuspecting man) want to shell out of his pockets each and every time you are in his presence?

I don't like to date men who can't provide me with stability and security.

#1) What on earth are these vagueries in perception? "Security"? Some of the most brutal crimes have taken place in the home, where the woman was lying right beside the man.

#2) You sound awful like the woman who NEEDS a man. Whatever happened to providing these qualities for yourself--being that they are merely abstractalities to begin with?

Just before he dates me! --Now I've had a few flings w/ men who didn't meet all my standards, and I've been a fling for a few guys who felt I didn't posess all the qualities they wanted, but for a serious relationship, there are certain things I insist upon.

What precisely is "flings"? For that matter, what do you consider "dating"?

All these terms are subjectives, with meanings that changes from person to person.

I don't have a family now and I came into this world with enough money to see me through as long as I act responsibly. I wouldn't have any children until my family situation was in place......for me thats a strong provider as a husband who can protect, guide and care for his family...............................as a side note I'm generally attracted to older men 20+ years. so they are at the age where their career and investments are stable.-- I'm not talking feeble old men, but the sexy muscular late 40's- mid 50's guys.

Yes, and we can now see the unrealism of your mindset.

"Sexy muscular older men"..... :rolleyes:

And these are Brothers that you're talking about? You obviously haven't read the statistics about Black Males in the age range that you specified.

HOTEP

In case I hadn't made my perspective clear here, here it is:

Well I'm certainly not a man, but I will give my input. And this is just my opinion and need I say I live by this as well.
First of all, communication is very important, if I ever (and I never) ask a man out to dinner, whoever pays depends on:
1. who have the money,
2. who or which one can afford to buy at the time,
3. depends on what job he/she has that will allow them to eat out,
and if the relationship turns into more,...it really dosen't matter who pays. First of all, I seldom eat out, but when I do, if I ask my mate/friend/husband or whatever we chose to call them, out for dinner, then I have no problem at all paying.

This applies for both the man (myself) and the woman.

PEACE

bringing this topic back!
why???????????????????

why???????????????????

I thought some of our new members would enjoy it.

You've all expressed your opinions and I wouldn't argue that any of you is right or wrong if you can find someone who wants to date you on those terms then it is right for that person and you.

If you can't find anyone who wants to go along with your game plan then you know what you need to do.

Now I will give my personal oopinion and it applies only to me and the person I date.

For me it's not about who makes the most money. I like to have some balance. If I make ten dollars to his hundred dollars I still want to bring something to the table. Which means that sometimes I will treat. Sometimes he will treat. Sometimes we will go dutch and sometimes we will find something to do which doesn't require money.

Just don't wait until after the waitress brings the bill to ask me if I have any money cuz your check didn't come yet. That happened to me and I was not happy.

It depends on whether or not I plan on continuing the relationship with the lady in question.

If I like what I'm seeing on the date and the chemistry is right, then I don't mind splurging a little just to re-enforce...as Tupac would say...my intentions to get wit' ya.

However if I'm not feeling her, or we're not feeling eachother and I see no success on the horizon...plus she's arrogant...then I'll go 1953 on her behind.

Separate and Equal.

it's nice to see this back again and i will say the same now as before

guys get ya wallets out ! .........lol today ladies not going for that they
look for men to pay the bill on a first date ....

quick question !
If two single people happen to be in the same place and sit down over dinner
through a friendly convo who have to pay .... i was once asked this and my
answer was both and was told i'm wrong ....somebody tell me how and why ?

I say it like this... whoever pulls out their wallet firs.. if a person is going to pay... or feels that they want to pay... they will always be the 1st person to pull out their wallet... if theres at all that akward mmt. then the operson who can afford it should pay.. scratch my back and ill scratch yours.. if money is the issue.. then they shouldnt have went out to dinner! They should have been more frugal.. a movie rental and medium pizza... under $20.. a night of watching "BE COOL" and eating pizza.. PRICELESS! :terrific:

Brothers this is something that we have all had to deal with at one time or another. Much of the rules of dating were created at a time when men made all the money, and women didn't work. In today's times when a woman is just as likely to make as much if not more than a man.

Are the rules of dating still the same? Is a man required to pay for a date if a woman asks him out? Should a man always pay for the 1st date? If you have paid for the last 7 outings...do you expect a woman to treat you sometime? Brothers let me know what you think.

If I ask a woman to go out, then I should be ready to pay for the meal. If a woman ask me to go out, then if she wants to pay, then she should state that fact during the initial conversation, but if I agree with her request of going out to dinner or whatever, than either I’m goin’ to be ready to pay or I’ll tell her straight up, I’m broke (she shouldn’t take it for granted I got the jack…if she’s doing the asking)!

I DON’T PLAY GAMES WHEN IT COMES TO MONEY… the only reason I would like to be able to pay for the meal at anytime, I always want be in a position to take care of myself at all times! I’m not a traditionalist about this. A woman can pay all the time if she wants to, but she’s got to be cool about it and be up front…no games!

Brother if she’s rich or got serious dough, I ain’t never payin’!!… :lol:

To eat good food and to eat well don’t have to be an expensive game; paying for a meal is no big thing… so either person can pay, as far as I’m concern, it’s no big deal…its about two hungry people enjoying the moment, it shouldn’t be a financial or cultural test.

But let me add this note, if she’s a good and decent workin’ woman, who’s tryin’ to make ends meet (not a gold-digger) or a single mom with children…I don’t believe in living out of a woman’s pocket. A “real” man suppose to be a plus in woman's life not a minus.

Edited for content

the dog....






(and i mean the animal)

































lol

this is a good thread...

my $0.02

a long time ago i believed that the man should pay b/c that's what i was taught as a young woman.

now, i carefully decide if i want the man to pay for dinner even if he ask. today, it's not always wise to accept money, gifts, or favors from certain men...it isn't worth it.

ps-

this is totally off topic but it isn't a good idea to allow a man to do too much b/c he will resent you for it even if it was his idea (trust me).

this is a good thread...

my $0.02

a long time ago i believed that the man should pay b/c that's what i was taught as a young woman.

now, i carefully decide if i want the man to pay for dinner even if he ask. today, it's not always wise to accept money, gifts, or favors from certain men...it isn't worth it.

ps-

this is totally off topic but it isn't a good idea to allow a man to do too much b/c he will resent you for it even if it was his idea (trust me).

You are right Ladylibra, it isn't wise to accept money, gifts, and favors from certain men. It also isn't a good idea to allow a man to do too much, because he will often resent it, if you never reciprocate.

You are right Ladylibra, it isn't wise to accept money, gifts, and favors from certain men. It also isn't a good idea to allow a man to do too much, because he will often resent it, if you never reciprocate.


hi there panafrica,

while it's true that he will often resent it IF you never reciprocate...i think it goes a step further. some men give so much that he engages in a cycle that he cannot keep up with (see the hampster on the wheel?). imho, it is at this time that HE should do a self-assessment and resolve HIS issues as oppose to resenting you for accepting his gifts/money/favors/etc..

noone should give anything if they aren't giving from the heart, don't have it to give in the first place, or hoping for a "certain" reaction/action in exchange....


spells trouble.

You are right Ladylibra, it isn't wise to accept money, gifts, and favors from certain men. It also isn't a good idea to allow a man to do too much, because he will often resent it, if you never reciprocate.

I believe the operative word here is "certain." Women should classify the men in their lives. A man who is a true friend of yours wouldn't "worry" about you recipricating or not. He knows that you will because you are a "true" friend of his. Friends look out for each other. They don't try to use each other. And, they think "highly" of each other. If a woman thought negatively of what I do for her and I consider her a friend, then I would question whether she considers me a friend. That happened recently by the way. I must admit...I updated her status in my life.

For women I consider my friends, I will help them if they need at the time. Like many men on the site have stated, they do not mind helping a woman if she needs it. BUT, WE DO NOT WANT TO BE USED.

The advice by Ladylibra and Pan is good advice in general. But, I believe that some women are taking this overboard. Women should apply this to men they do not have an established FRIENDSHIP with; not men you claim to be your friends. If you think that he will ask "particular" favors of you, then, subconsciously, you do not consider him to be a friend.

A "date" is different from just "hanging out." If we were hanging out, I would not pay for dinner...unless I wanted to. If I consider her a friend, I would most likey pay because I know she has my back.

If we are "dating," then most likely I would pay. I date friends not strangers in hopes of becoming friends. So, I don't have the problem of thinking she may be using me in some way by getting free meals or entertainment from me.

I think some of the Family members took Nina out of context a little. Yeah, she was contradictory on the head-of-household issue...but most people are confused when it comes to that concept in a marriage (or relationship).

Peace.

Whoever asked to go out.

hi there panafrica,

while it's true that he will often resent it IF you never reciprocate...i think it goes a step further. some men give so much that he engages in a cycle that he cannot keep up with (see the hampster on the wheel?). imho, it is at this time that HE should do a self-assessment and resolve HIS issues as oppose to resenting you for accepting his gifts/money/favors/etc..

noone should give anything if they aren't giving from the heart, don't have it to give in the first place, or hoping for a "certain" reaction/action in exchange....spells trouble.

I think that truly only applies to "some" men. Anyone who gives beyond their means to do so (man or woman) is foolish. My original purpose in created this thread was to address women who expect men to pay for a date all the time regardless of whoever is paying. Historically men were expected to pay for a date, because they made more money. Indeed until 30 years ago, many women were not working. In today's time not only do women work, a significant number are making more than men (some considerably so). As a result, the old standards are outdated. If a man constantly is paying for outings that both want to attend, and enjoy...he will start to feel that he's being taken for granted. Why would he not?

Should a man always pay for the 1st date? If you have paid for the last 7 outings...do you expect a woman to treat you sometime? Brothers let me know what you think.

That's a good question!I wonder about it too!Sometimes,before the rendez-vous,i tell to myself that i'll let her pay!But once at the restaurant...itz something else;i don't know how to explain it but i CAN'T let the bills to her.We should do so,i mean let them pay,otherwise they may use us -don't be angry sisters,itz just a precaution-.

if i pay for the meal.. you leave the tip..
if u pay, ill leave the tip.. keep it simple silly!

truefully it really is up to the two on the date sometime a woman want to pay her own way
but a nice man will offer to pay the bill, ...me holla check please i'll pay !!!........................

It’s not about who has the most money. IMO, most women still want to feel that a man can protect them and provide for them. Paying for a meal falls into the category of “providing.” This might be pure fantasy, but it’s the way many women are still wired, based on a tradition that lasted for thousands of years. Just because “some” women make as much or more money than men, which has only been going on for a relatively short time, it doesn’t change the complex wiring that occurred over thousands of years.

During the first 5 or 6 dates of a budding romantic relationship, I would rather go to McDonalds on every date, if that’s all he can afford than to take turns paying for the meal. This is because paying for my own meal takes away from me feeling fully feminine when I’m out with a man, which in turn reduces his masculinity in my eyes. I need to feel that he can provide for me--even if it’s only a 49 cents hamburger. If I’m not feeling feminine, then I don’t feel that he is fully masculine, and I won’t have sexual feelings towards him or it will take me a lot longer to have sexual feelings. If I don’t have sexual feelings, this means he doesn’t appeal to me and any chance of romance is usually gone.

But, if he’s interesting or fun to be with, I might suggest that we be friends and I don’t have sex with my friends of either gender

It’s not about who has the most money. IMO, most women still want to feel that a man can protect them and provide for them. Paying for a meal falls into the category of “providing.” This might be pure fantasy, but it’s the way many women are still wired, based on a tradition that lasted for thousands of years. Just because “some” women make as much or more money than men, which has only been going on for a relatively short time, it doesn’t change the complex wiring that occurred over thousands of years.


For thousands of years women stayed at home, while the husband worked...yet today's modern woman had no problem entering & competing in workplace, and very few woman are talking about going back. That is the problem with changing traditional roles, once you change them, it is difficult to go back. In addition that change often carries unforseen consequences. For a woman to make as much as a man, yet still expect him to foot all the bills (because of tradition) is not only unrealistic...it is selfish! Think of what is actually being said here by women who continue to think this way: I want to compete with men for education, training, and employment. I want to attain a position which makes me financially independent. Yet I want a man to pay for my entertainment and expenses (if I find one naive enough to do so), while I save my money for investments & property. The world doesn't work like that! Men should not pay for every outing in today's society, that expectation went out the window, when women in large started entering corporate America.

For thousands of years women stayed at home, while the husband worked...yet today's modern woman had no problem entering & competing in workplace, and very few woman are talking about going back. That is the problem with changing traditional roles, once you change them, it is difficult to go back. In addition that change often carries unforseen consequences. For a woman to make as much as a man, yet still expect him to foot all the bills (because of tradition) is not only unrealistic...it is selfish! Think of what is actually being said here by women who continue to think this way: I want to compete with men for education, training, and employment. I want to attain a position which makes me financially independent. Yet I want a man to pay for my entertainment and expenses (if I find one naive enough to do so), while I save my money for investments & property. The world doesn't work like that! Men should not pay for every outing in today's society, that expectation went out the window, when women in large started entering corporate America.

**************************************

Brother Pan, I’m talking about on the first few dates and as I said, a 49 cents hamburger is okay by me because I’m not going out with him as an alternative to starvation. For me, it’s not about the food or entertainment because I can provide those things for myself, either at home or out somewhere. So, if a man thinks that by paying for my meal on a date, that’s saving me money to invest, I wouldn’t want to be with that type of man. To me, motivation is key or the spirit behind why he does what he does. But you’ve hit on something here. Maybe women should start asking men how they feel about this issue before they go out.

IMO, it’s like when someone comes to your house to visit, it’s the custom to offer them refreshments and they usually accept what’s offered—not so they can save money to invest—but because it’s the courteous thing to do. If you came to my house several times, I would offer you “free” refreshments each time and I wouldn’t be thinking about when or if you will reciprocate or that I’m allowing you to save money to invest. If I didn’t think you were worthy of those “free” refreshments, I wouldn’t be bothered with you in the first place. Why would a man want to take me out in the first place if he didn’t feel that I was worth a few free meals or movies or whatever?

As to women working these days and the feeling that she should pay up just like a man, this is exactly how white people feel about us Blacks. They prefer to look at the relatively paltry number of Blacks who might be making a few bucks and say, “See, Black people have rights these days and have caught up with us, so why should there be affirmative action or other breaks for them?” White folks selectively choose to ignore that they had a major headstart and that the vast majority of us are way behind them financially and otherwise.
It’s still very much a "man’s world," throughout the world. If you look at Black men and women who are similarly educated and are equal in other respects, Black men still outpace Black women (the last time I checked) as CEO’s and other upper management positions in the corporate world and in other sectors, throughout the world. And I know I read somewhere recently that single women with children are the fastest growing segment of the impoverished.

It's funny how women seem to have selective memories when it comes to tradition. It always seems like they use tradition to justify the man paying for everything, but they forget that women traditionally have been the ones cooking, cleaning and taking care of the kids. All of which women expect men to take a large part of nowadays. If a man used your arguement to support his idea of what a wife should do, all the women in America would call him sexist and claim that he was trying to make his woman a slave.

I think whomever asks the other one out, that's who should be READY to pay. If the woman asks the man out, then she should be READY to pay . Now, if the bill comes and he grabs it and takes care of it, then that's cool. If he doesn't, you being the one who asked him out, should pay the bill. You know, this is a big turn off for a lot of brothas. Women nowadays act as if they have as much to offer as the past generations. The women of today are not capable of being wives like women of the past because they want everything and are prepared to give very little. They always want the option of contributing, but they never want the responsibility, unless they don't have a man. Women want to make as much as men, but they don't want anyone looking at them to pay for anything. If women are taking a lot of the well paying jobs, then that's leaving a lot of men with less money and financial stability, so how are men still supposed to provide the same amount of financial support, if there are less jobs for men? Gee, guess women never think about that. Women need to unwire their brains and maybe they'd figure out why so many men (of all races) are opting out of marriage and commitment.

It's funny how women seem to have selective memories when it comes to tradition. It always seems like they use tradition to justify the man paying for everything, but they forget that women traditionally have been the ones cooking, cleaning and taking care of the kids. All of which women expect men to take a large part of nowadays. If a man used your arguement to support his idea of what a wife should do, all the women in America would call him sexist and claim that he was trying to make his woman a slave.

I think whomever asks the other one out, that's who should be READY to pay. If the woman asks the man out, then she should be READY to pay . Now, if the bill comes and he grabs it and takes care of it, then that's cool. If he doesn't, you being the one who asked him out, should pay the bill. You know, this is a big turn off for a lot of brothas. Women nowadays act as if they have as much to offer as the past generations. The women of today are not capable of being wives like women of the past because they want everything and are prepared to give very little. They always want the option of contributing, but they never want the responsibility, unless they don't have a man. Women want to make as much as men, but they don't want anyone looking at them to pay for anything. If women are taking a lot of the well paying jobs, then that's leaving a lot of men with less money and financial stability, so how are men still supposed to provide the same amount of financial support, if there are less jobs for men? Gee, guess women never think about that. Women need to unwire their brains and maybe they'd figure out why so many men (of all races) are opting out of marriage and commitment.

******************************

Yes, women are asking men to share the domestic chores, but the last poll I read indicated that working women are still carrying the vast majority of the weight in that department, along with helping the kids with the homework, taking time off work to stay home with a sick child or take the child to the doctor, conferencing with the child's teacher, taking the child to extracurricular activities and on and on. I know some men are doing more of this these days, but those polls and studies are constantly being conducted.

Actually, I was taught not to depend on men for anything. And I don't because as I said, I can feed and provide for myself very well.

I guess my question is if working women are going to do the bulk of the domestic and related chores as polls indicate they still do AND have the babies AND carry the responsibility that you mention of providing, what exactly do women need men for?

I was talking to a Black man from another culture the other day who said that AA Black women are way too independent and have too much power. He said that we seem to have taken on the man's role and don't leave a role for a man here to play in our lives aside from sex partner. According to him, this is one of the reasons why many AA men don't struggle harder to get an education or try harder to excel. They don't feel needed, he said.
And I've heard this before, usually from Blacks from other cultures as well as older AAs.

But it seems that you're saying that a lot of women are too dependent and do have expectations of men. This is so confusing.

But it seems that you're saying that a lot of women are too dependent and do have expectations of men. This is so confusing.

I don't think women are dependant in terms of "needing" a man to pay for things. I think women are dependant in terms of "wanting" and man to pay for things even though she's more than capable. I don't think most men would have a problem taking the role as breadwinner, but the problems occur because women want to be breadwinner, then they use that as an excuse to why they don't cook anymore (no time), or clean (no energy), or have sex ( no energy). Then on top of that, the money that they get from working is just used as spending money for their hair and nails and purses, while the men are told to "be a man" and use his money to pay all the bills, or at least the majority of the bills. Even if women do the majority of the domestic chores (which I doubt because I don't know any married couple where the man just sits around and never vaccumes, dusts, cooks occassionally or help with the kids), women still look to men to do these things, and if he doesn't she complains to no end. On the other hand, if a woman doesn't pay bills men rarely make a big deal because some men still believe it is their duty (in this day and age) to pay all the bills in order to keep a woman. Women want it both ways and it's very sad. I know so many men that have no desire to marry because of this very subject. Honestly, in this day and age, I don't think women need men at all, because all you guys have to do is work 40 hrs a week, have no babies in your lifetime and just invest in a high-powered vibrator. This is how women have been trained to think, and that's one reason why the black population is decreasing in America. There is no family anymore, and a lot of it is due to women being trained to compete with their men. Not the sole reason, but one of the big reasons. I just think selfishness makes things harder than they need to be. If both people are working and making money, you should do as much as you can for the household, no matter what sex you are. If you're both pressed for time, you should make an effort to carry your weight as far as chores go. Unfortunately, I see more men contributing on the domestic side, than I see women offering to contribute on the finacial end.

It's funny how women seem to have selective memories when it comes to tradition. It always seems like they use tradition to justify the man paying for everything, but they forget that women traditionally have been the ones cooking, cleaning and taking care of the kids. All of which women expect men to take a large part of nowadays. If a man used your arguement to support his idea of what a wife should do, all the women in America would call him sexist and claim that he was trying to make his woman a slave.

I think whomever asks the other one out, that's who should be READY to pay. If the woman asks the man out, then she should be READY to pay . Now, if the bill comes and he grabs it and takes care of it, then that's cool. If he doesn't, you being the one who asked him out, should pay the bill. You know, this is a big turn off for a lot of brothas. Women nowadays act as if they have as much to offer as the past generations. The women of today are not capable of being wives like women of the past because they want everything and are prepared to give very little. They always want the option of contributing, but they never want the responsibility, unless they don't have a man. Women want to make as much as men, but they don't want anyone looking at them to pay for anything. If women are taking a lot of the well paying jobs, then that's leaving a lot of men with less money and financial stability, so how are men still supposed to provide the same amount of financial support, if there are less jobs for men? Gee, guess women never think about that. Women need to unwire their brains and maybe they'd figure out why so many men (of all races) are opting out of marriage and commitment.

I was going to respond to Riada, but you did such an excellent job, I don't feel I have to anymore!

I don't think women are dependant in terms of "needing" a man to pay for things. I think women are dependant in terms of "wanting" and man to pay for things even though she's more than capable. I don't think most men would have a problem taking the role as breadwinner, but the problems occur because women want to be breadwinner, then they use that as an excuse to why they don't cook anymore (no time), or clean (no energy), or have sex ( no energy). Then on top of that, the money that they get from working is just used as spending money for their hair and nails and purses, while the men are told to "be a man" and use his money to pay all the bills, or at least the majority of the bills. Even if women do the majority of the domestic chores (which I doubt because I don't know any married couple where the man just sits around and never vaccumes, dusts, cooks occassionally or help with the kids), women still look to men to do these things, and if he doesn't she complains to no end. On the other hand, if a woman doesn't pay bills men rarely make a big deal because some men still believe it is their duty (in this day and age) to pay all the bills in order to keep a woman. Women want it both ways and it's very sad. I know so many men that have no desire to marry because of this very subject. Honestly, in this day and age, I don't think women need men at all, because all you guys have to do is work 40 hrs a week, have no babies in your lifetime and just invest in a high-powered vibrator. This is how women have been trained to think, and that's one reason why the black population is decreasing in America. There is no family anymore, and a lot of it is due to women being trained to compete with their men. Not the sole reason, but one of the big reasons. I just think selfishness makes things harder than they need to be. If both people are working and making money, you should do as much as you can for the household, no matter what sex you are. If you're both pressed for time, you should make an effort to carry your weight as far as chores go. Unfortunately, I see more men contributing on the domestic side, than I see women offering to contribute on the finacial end.


Excellent points

I don't think women are dependant in terms of "needing" a man to pay for things. I think women are dependant in terms of "wanting" and man to pay for things even though she's more than capable. I don't think most men would have a problem taking the role as breadwinner, but the problems occur because women want to be breadwinner, then they use that as an excuse to why they don't cook anymore (no time), or clean (no energy), or have sex ( no energy). Then on top of that, the money that they get from working is just used as spending money for their hair and nails and purses, while the men are told to "be a man" and use his money to pay all the bills, or at least the majority of the bills. Even if women do the majority of the domestic chores (which I doubt because I don't know any married couple where the man just sits around and never vaccumes, dusts, cooks occassionally or help with the kids), women still look to men to do these things, and if he doesn't she complains to no end. On the other hand, if a woman doesn't pay bills men rarely make a big deal because some men still believe it is their duty (in this day and age) to pay all the bills in order to keep a woman. Women want it both ways and it's very sad. I know so many men that have no desire to marry because of this very subject. Honestly, in this day and age, I don't think women need men at all, because all you guys have to do is work 40 hrs a week, have no babies in your lifetime and just invest in a high-powered vibrator. This is how women have been trained to think, and that's one reason why the black population is decreasing in America. There is no family anymore, and a lot of it is due to women being trained to compete with their men. Not the sole reason, but one of the big reasons. I just think selfishness makes things harder than they need to be. If both people are working and making money, you should do as much as you can for the household, no matter what sex you are. If you're both pressed for time, you should make an effort to carry your weight as far as chores go. Unfortunately, I see more men contributing on the domestic side, than I see women offering to contribute on the finacial end.

*******************************
This is so amazing!!! I absolutely don’t know of any woman who WANTS to be the breadwinner. Who would WANT to deal with all the mess of working in the white man’s world if they don’t have to? I hear women complaining all of the time about how they WISH they could stay at home like me and make a living but they are under pressure by their man to go out and get a job or to keep working to make money, if they have a man. And these women DO use their money to pay the bills—major bills like the mortgage, car note, food, private school tuition, and so on.

Yes, some women constantly complain that their men feel that they are “helping out” when he does any single domestic chore—I’ve heard men use that “help out” expression a lot-- instead of realizing that these are his responsibilities since his wife must use a big portion of her money to pay bills rather she is in the mood to help out or not.

I don’t think that some women expect to get married anymore, especially youngerAA women. Actually people are encouraging sistas to be all they can be, despite not having a man.

I know women who work 60-80 or more hours a week to support themselves and their children because when they were younger they had children.

I don’t feel that women should compete with men because traditionally there was a role for each person. I do believe in equal pay for equal work because that’s only fair, IF she is going to work outside the home. I tell younger women all the time that they should be satisfied staying at home to rear the children once children are born, if there is a man still in the picture, and to live off whatever small amount of money he brings in. You’d be surprised at how many women are willing to do this because so much money is eaten up by daycare and other ‘going-out-to-work expenses anyway. However once a woman is working and her man sees that extra money coming in, he doesn’t want her to stop working ‘cause he’s thinking about what that extra cash can buy.

Anyway, you made good discussion points.

This is so amazing!!! I absolutely don’t know of any woman who WANTS to be the breadwinner. Who would WANT to deal with all the mess of working in the white man’s world if they don’t have to? I hear women complaining all of the time about how they WISH they could stay at home like me and make a living but they are under pressure by their man to go out and get a job or to keep working to make money....I don’t feel that women should compete with men because traditionally there was a role for each person. I do believe in equal pay for equal work because that’s only fair, IF she is going to work outside the home. I tell younger women all the time that they should be satisfied staying at home to rear the children once children are born, if there is a man still in the picture, and to live off whatever small amount of money he brings in. You’d be surprised at how many women are willing to do this because so much money is eaten up by daycare and other ‘going-out-to-work expenses anyway.

I think brother Kente417Mojo made a key point (one I avoided making because I didn't want to be called sexist):

If women are taking a lot of the well paying jobs, then that's leaving a lot of men with less money and financial stability, so how are men still supposed to provide the same amount of financial support, if there are less jobs for men?

This is the consequence of changing gender roles in society. Women today are in competition with men for jobs. They are in competition with men because jobs paying $75,000 a year, $150,000 a year, and $300,000 a year (or more) are not in abundance. For every woman who gets one of these positions, a man is not going to be able to be the "bread winner" many women continue to expect him to be. As a result, many men will be forced to take lower paying jobs which will restrict what they can do for their families.

The fact is that women are in the workforce and t