Hoteph My Dear Beloved Sisters And Brothers:

Beloved what I am about to say, is what you expect me to say, knowing that I
speak not what is expected of Black Folks to say, which really reflect what
we think.

Who is this Man, who appear to reflect to be an authority on poor people and
how we are to speak, which justify Blacks to take the reflection of his (
Cosby ) thinking and take it to the next step and conclude that Mr.Cosby
also think he know how poor people should be thinking.

This I think, would be a little presumptuous of Mr. Cosby, leading us Black
Folks to think of him of thinking that he has the solution to poor people
problems in america and that is, by his thinking, lead us to think that
there is a difference between Black poor people and rich Black people in the
eyes of white america and in order for the two class of us begin to bridge
our gap, is for poor Black people to learn to speak as Mr. Cosby speak,
English and the world of opportunity will fall at the feet of poor people.

Now I know I am not suppose to speak ill of Mr. Cosby, because he speak
English and he has a lot of money to show for how he speak.

Tell me dear beloved, how foolish have we become as we choose to qualify and
quantify Black Folks in america by the way we talk, as if to suggest that is
why Blacks Folks of a poor Scio-economic standing is in the condition we are
in here in america.

Do one wonder what is Mr.Cosby stand on Reparation ?

Have we moved to force him to reveal his stand on Reparation, as he take his
stand on the white man English?

I know, I know, I can hear some of us now, well there is nothing wrong in
telling our people by some one of Mr. Cosby statue and Status, how we should
be speaking, here in america, that is if we want to become as Mr.Cosby, or
some of us would say,it is just the proper way to speak, without expecting
anything in return and I ask the question, Why?

Tell me what will it profit Black poor people to learn the america
phonetics, will it cause a rise in their Scio- economic status in america by
doing so or will it cause them to sound more white american or become more
respected?

So tell me my beloved, why is it important for Black people to speak "
proper English ", as oppose to Black people reviving Justice in our life and
work to remove ourselves from the English teaching White Masters.

So tell me, what is the purpose for communicating? Is it not for the purpose
to be understood and not to be judged to see if we qualify for Justice.

Why should Black poor people be concerned in being understood by the likes
of Mr.Cosby and not their peers.

If I am in a fight for Justice, I want my comrades to be able to understand
me, more so than a Mr.Cosby, who has evolved to be my enemy, as he proudly
and some what jokingly, critic my language.

Here is a statement alleged to Mr. Cosby: "Ladies and gentlemen, the lower
economic people are not holding up their end in this deal".

what deal?

"These people are not parenting".

"They are buying things for kids- $500 sneakers for what"? "And they won't
spend $200 for Hooked on phonics".

So I ask, are poor Black people in some kind of contractual deal for
justice, with our oppressors and according to what Mr. Cosby is suggesting,
the deal is if we learn to speak as white folks speaks, our condition as
poor people will change and we are being punished for not speaking white
enough.

Also what this bold Black rich man is suggesting, is, poor people will begin
to become parents of acceptable action when they are able to rise above all
of this Scio - economic propaganda and mind conditioning, about what success
represent and become involved in learning how to speak English and begin to
spend less than half than high priced sneakers cost, in order to learn to
speak like white folks.

He is suggesting such would be an acceptable exchange for Black poor
people,because you see, poor Black people do not speak English, not proper
acceptable English.

Cosby is alleged to have said, " they ( poor Black People ) are standing on
the corner and they can not speak English. He is said to have said," I can't
even talk the way these people talk" what a distinction, by a supposed to be
role model and he goes on to mimic poor people, "Why you aint where you is",
tell me is this kind of speaking hard to understand or is it the fact that
it attack the white English and if we want to be considered for upward
mobility we must fall in attention with our speaking.

Mr. Cosby goes on to have said," I blamed the kid until I heard the mother
talk, then I heard the father talk" and then he plays it off by saying, "
everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads",
"you can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

As if to suggest, the only thing that is holding poor people back is the way
we speak.

I am here to tell you my dear beloved, even if we decided to master the
English language and we can, america conditioned poor people would not
change and for Mr.Cosby to even suggest that our problem is so simple, make
him out to be a liar and a dangerous white proper English speaking, Black
rich man.

So beloved, are we poor because of how we speak?

Did our Enslaved Ancestors go through what they did because they spoke not
English?

Is Black Folks Time and condition in america so different now to the point,
all we need to do is learn to speak white folks English and the hand of
Justice will reach down and pull us out of the pit of injustice?

Is our Time to be spent to please white folks or is it to be used to get
away from white folks control?

Is our goal to be to learn English, or should it be to have our Hue - Man
Rights Restored and to let Justice become our drum major as we demand a just
pay for a just labor performed by our Enslaved Ancestors.

Does not Reparation transcend white folks English, in hope for acceptance by
them, on a limited scale and at their pleasure?

Reparation / Repatriation, Nation State Status in Afrika supersede the goal
of becoming a good English speaking ******, in hope for a reward for our
performance, of the oppressor choosing.

Wake up Black Woman and Man, it is Time for your liberation and not
cherishing the thought of speaking in your white master tongue!!!

Shame on the NAACP, FOR ALLOWING SUCH PERFORMANCE IN THEIR MIDST, WITHOUT
REBUKE.

It Is Time To Condemn The Lie And Elevate The Truth !!!

We Must Cause Trouble Until Our Liberation, Without Compromise!!!

Only The Devil Is Displeased With This Message And With Me.

Complete Love To The Carbon Nation.

Hoteph
Osiris
Chief Elder
Hierophant, Afrikan Spiritualist
National Chairman
Sankofa Repatriation Movement
The Pan - Afrikan Inter'National Movement

Joke anyone? Since "mistuh Cawby" is such an Expert on Comedy and now the King's English, this one is for the creator of Fat Albert(Dumb Donald?)

What did the white man say to his wife about Bill Cosby?

"Now, that ******* is funny and eloquent!"

HAHAHAhaha..ha.... ... .

Jokes on you "mistuh Cawby". Hope the Boule gave you a raise for that speech.

HTP brother Osirus, keep exposing the lie and elevate the Truth.

WELL FELT
AS I WAS READING THIS I NOTICE
AUM ......THE N WORD IS NOT ALLOWED PLEASE
REMOVE IT FROM YOUR POST PLEASE IT'S ONE
OF OUR BANNED WORDS HERE
$R

My Dear Beloved Chief Elder Osiris ... once again, you have said what i thought. Well, i certainly didn't think all that you've shared, but i do now! :) I've not read all of Mr. Cosby's words, only received bits and pieces of it here on the forum, but that little bit is dissapointing. I don't understand how he has so easily separated himself from the rest of us, so much so, that he can look down on any of us.

My Dear Beloved AUM ... you make a great point ... Fat Albert and the Gang! ... they certainly did not speak "Proper English!" ... How could Mr. Cosby create, perpetuate and make money from, that which he finds so unnacceptable?

I really need to find the entire article / interview and read it for myself. It is my hope that once i do, i'll come away with a different understanding than i currently have.

Much Love and Peace Family.

:heart:

Destee

I've been told too many times that I act 'white'. And still can't figure out what that means. Does driving a new car, living in a nice home, working in corporate America, having a college education, etc. takes away one's "blackness"?

Well, going for a job interview acting "ghetto" will not get me a job.

If I was born and raised in Spain, I would probably be speaking Spanish. Since I was born in the US, I speak English. I speak it the way I was taught. I will not resort to "ebonics". That is NOT my native language. If I want to learn the language of black people, I will go to an African country. This ebonics mess is something separatist blacks are making up.

I know what I am, a black woman. Nothing will change that. I'm proud of it. But I don't have to "do black" to be black. Also, I don't have to unperm my hair or wear only afroecentric clothing.

Bill Cosby has a valid point...poor black parents put too much into material things such as expensive sneakers instead of getting some educational books or toys for their children. I've seen welfare kids with expensive sneakers or the mother dressed to the nines while the kid is dressed terribly.

I feel that some blacks are anti-education. Look at how many times they have poked fun at my kids because they don't speak "ebonics" and they are in college.

I may not be in agreement with everything that Bill Cosby says, but he has some valid points.

I've been told too many times that I act 'white'. And still can't figure out what that means. Does driving a new car, living in a nice home, working in corporate America, having a college education, etc. takes away one's "blackness"?

Well, going for a job interview acting "ghetto" will not get me a job.

If I was born and raised in Spain, I would probably be speaking Spanish. Since I was born in the US, I speak English. I speak it the way I was taught. I will not resort to "ebonics". That is NOT my native language. If I want to learn the language of black people, I will go to an African country. This ebonics mess is something separatist blacks are making up.

I know what I am, a black woman. Nothing will change that. I'm proud of it. But I don't have to "do black" to be black. Also, I don't have to unperm my hair or wear only afroecentric clothing.

Bill Cosby has a valid point...poor black parents put too much into material things such as expensive sneakers instead of getting some educational books or toys for their children. I've seen welfare kids with expensive sneakers or the mother dressed to the nines while the kid is dressed terribly.

I feel that some blacks are anti-education. Look at how many times they have poked fun at my kids because they don't speak "ebonics" and they are in college.

I may not be in agreement with everything that Bill Cosby says, but he has some valid points.

By the way you are so vehemently opposed to so called EBONICS, you are obviously out of touch with black people as a whole. What's the difference between me saying: "Hello, how are you doing today?" and "What's Up?" I'll tell you. Black people have a unique way of mentally communicating what's on our mind and in our hearts in as few words as possible. This is something that the EUROPEAN mind cannot entirely comprehend. Ask yourself if you are EUROCENTRIC or AFROCENTRIC. If you are EUROCENTRIC chances are you have been missing out on a LARGE part of what is known as the Black Experience. If I say "Y'all" instead of the drawn out "You all", I'll need you as a Black Woman NOT to look at me as an Ignorant Black Man. That's self hatred. Ignorance is Ignorance, period. While you embrace the KING'S ENGLISH and Shun so-called EBONICS you have separated yourself from a part your melanin-family. You stated: "I don't have to "do black" to be black. Also, I don't have to unperm my hair or wear only afroecentric clothing."

If you are indeed a Black Woman, how do you NOT "Do Black"??? Aren't you doing Black everytime you wake up, Breathe, cook, etc.? If you are saying that "Doing Black" is speaking Ignorantly then I feel sorry for ya(<--"ebonics" for 'You') You probably CRINGE when you hear a person of english-speaking Caribbean descent speaking in there native Patois, which is a Beautiful, poetic artform, just the same as so called EBONICS here in the U.S. I grew up in Savanna(h), GA; 4th generation of freed slaves. If I were to speak to you as I grew up speaking to my elders and peers, I believe YOU would think I was from a foreign land. As far as your "Afrocentric clothing" remark, I won't honor that with a response except to say go right ahead and spend your hard earned money on EUROCENTRIC clothing from Prada, Gucci, Dooney & Boorke, etc. that you feel best represents you. Perming your hair is DESTRUCTIVE to your health and an unconscious(I hope) attempt to assimilate into EUROCENTRIC beauty standards...Don't take my word for it, read on: http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25906

I pray that your eyes be opened to the truth of your being. No doubt, you have denied some, if not all, of what is in this post. Denial is the first step in embracing the truth, so I'm not worried. No one is saying that you should embrace ignorance and stupidity. Of course, you will not advance in corporate Amerikkka (<--ebonic spelling) if your employers cannot understand you. KNOW THYSELF is what your ancestors want you to realize at this now moment. Until then, "Be Easy"(<--ebonics for "Hey, take care of yourself, okay?" in PROPER :rolleyes: English). ONE (<---once again, ebonics for "Goodbye, have a pleasant day" in PROPER :rolleyes: English)

Nice post, Brother Aum. Welcome to the Family.

well stated aum...we have witnessed another example of the house n/ field n syndrome...it's our job to banish this mindset...
one love
khasm

It Wrong For bill To Make A Statement's Like That In Public Seting . Just Goes To Shows The Ignorance Of Another Negrod With A Little Money . He Always Talking About How He Was Rise Did He Forget That Family Business Stay In The Family And Only Spoken In The Family Seting . Not In The Public, He Would Never Speak Out Against The Caucasian Children Like That In A Public Seting . Because That Would Let Him Know Who He Really Is .
:flamet: :flamet: :flamet: :flamet:

Very good point AUM. Cosby did make the " Fat Albert" cartoon series. He brought that straight out of how he grew up and the kids around him. In that cartoon. He ( Bill ) spoke proper english, yet he exploited the dialect of those he knew and grew up with.

Blacks learned english from poor speaking southern slave holders. We have improved considerable compared to how and what we were taught. Today if you go to the south. You will find broken english. So what do we call southern white’s language that isn't correct? ( Caucabonics )

The famous poet. Paul Lawrence Dunbar spoke and wrote in both broken english and proper english. If Americans and Bill Cosby have a real problem with how we speak. That's their problem. Not ours. The point was made, by
Chief Elder Osiris " Tell me what will it profit Black poor people to learn the America phonetics, will it cause a rise in their Scio- economic status in America by doing so or will it cause them to sound more white American or become more respected? "

No it won't give us more jobs, more respect or more standing on an economic level. Bill Cosby is trying to distinguish himself, and lower the embarrassment he feels when asked by his counterfeit friends. About the language they hear coming from other blacks and how eloquent he speaks. He has lost something here. He may never recover, whether it makes a difference or not. Bill has fallen in the eyes of many.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics

" Linguist William Labov carried out and published the first thorough grammatical study of African American Vernacular English in 1965.
In the late 1960s and early 1970s, his studies of the linguistic features of Black English Vernacular (BEV) were also influential: he argued that BEV should not be stigmatized as substandard but respected as a variety of English with its own grammatical rules, although speakers of BEV should be encouraged to learn standard American English for interactions in society at large. "

" A linguistics professor at Washington University created the term Ebonics in 1973, then detailed it in his 1975 book, Ebonics: The True Language of Black Folks.
African-American Vernacular English (AAVE), also called Ebonics. Black English, or Black English Vernacular (BEV) is a dialect of American English. Similar to common Southern US English, the dialect is spoken in many African-American communities in the United States, especially in urban areas. It has its origins in the culture of enslaved Americans and also has roots in England.
Sociologists, linguists and psychologists generally believe that it is common for oppressed people (as, for example, African slaves in the Americas) to adopt a radically different dialect from their oppressors. This is done to subtly rebel against the oppressor and his culture, and to differentiate themselves, as well as to foster pride among their community. Slaveholders generally considered the changes in speech to be due to inferior intelligence.

Most speakers of AAVE are bidialectical in that they command Standard American English (SAE) to some degree in addition to AAVE, switching between using SAE forms and AAVE forms depending on social context. "

Nobody can speak for a people all by themselves but a person can point out what is not looking like a positive path and I feel like Cosby did that to an extent not a whole. Yes ebonics are a poor and sad choice of grammer and we should try to uplift the education values in our community's. The Fat albert show was not a good show as in grammer but in message and we must rember that we needed that show at that time and we controled nothing that was placed out at that time. Let's not pick eachother apart but uplift and find ways to solve a problem instead of throwing stones.. we all live in glass houses at times.

Very good point AUM. Cosby did make the " Fat Albert" cartoon series. He brought that straight out of how he grew up and the kids around him. In that cartoon. He ( Bill ) spoke proper english, yet he exploited the dialect of those he knew and grew up with.

Blacks learned english from poor speaking southern slave holders. We have improved considerable compared to how and what we were taught. Today if you go to the south. You will find broken english. So what do we call southern white’s language that isn't correct? ( Caucabonics )

The famous poet. Paul Lawrence Dunbar spoke and wrote in both broken english and proper english. If Americans and Bill Cosby have a real problem with how we speak. That's their problem. Not ours. The point was made, by
Chief Elder Osiris " Tell me what will it profit Black poor people to learn the America phonetics, will it cause a rise in their Scio- economic status in America by doing so or will it cause them to sound more white American or become more respected? "

No it won't give us more jobs, more respect or more standing on an economic level. Bill Cosby is trying to distinguish himself, and lower the embarrassment he feels when asked by his counterfeit friends. About the language they hear coming from other blacks and how eloquent he speaks. He has lost something here. He may never recover, whether it makes a difference or not. Bill has fallen in the eyes of many.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics

" Linguist William Labov carried out and published the first thorough grammatical study of African American Vernacular English in 1965.
In the late 1960s and early 1970s, his studies of the linguistic features of Black English Vernacular (BEV) were also influential: he argued that BEV should not be stigmatized as substandard but respected as a variety of English with its own grammatical rules, although speakers of BEV should be encouraged to learn standard American English for interactions in society at large. "

" A linguistics professor at Washington University created the term Ebonics in 1973, then detailed it in his 1975 book, Ebonics: The True Language of Black Folks.
African-American Vernacular English (AAVE), also called Ebonics. Black English, or Black English Vernacular (BEV) is a dialect of American English. Similar to common Southern US English, the dialect is spoken in many African-American communities in the United States, especially in urban areas. It has its origins in the culture of enslaved Americans and also has roots in England.
Sociologists, linguists and psychologists generally believe that it is common for oppressed people (as, for example, African slaves in the Americas) to adopt a radically different dialect from their oppressors. This is done to subtly rebel against the oppressor and his culture, and to differentiate themselves, as well as to foster pride among their community. Slaveholders generally considered the changes in speech to be due to inferior intelligence.

Most speakers of AAVE are bidialectical in that they command Standard American English (SAE) to some degree in addition to AAVE, switching between using SAE forms and AAVE forms depending on social context. "

Co-sign,
HTP warrior Hodee! Caucabonics(lol)

"A-U-M"

Very good point AUM, he did make the fat albert gang indeed he did
i like python and khasm replies as well
so right now i have nothing to add....
Peace
Angel

originally, I read about this topic in an article on blacknews.com. what surprised me was the fact that the NAACP didn't fully adrress Cosby's remarks. Instead they only adrressed the statistics of of welfare recipients, when they should have said more. other than that- everything else is already well put!

originally, I read about this topic in an article on blacknews.com. what surprised me was the fact that the NAACP didn't fully adrress Cosby's remarks. Instead they only adrressed the statistics of of welfare recipients, when they should have said more. other than that- everything else is already well put!

Interesting. I believe Cosby is a BIG donor to the NAACP. Do you think this has something to do with their passivity in dealing with "mistuh Cawby"?

Did'nt we always have a language of our own? From the very time our people were kidnapped from the motherland. Even after they killed and beat our language out of us. We had song and pig-latin. As I was growing-up in the late 70's the language was called slang. Now it is called ebonics. We are a unique people. We have always had our own language. And from what I see, The white man and his children are rapidly trying to understand what we are talking about. Is'nt ebonics a college course now? See, When we start kicking our own creativity in a language that they don't understand, yt gets nervous and puts the pressure on our so called well educated black people, who are so desparatly trying to fit in their circle. Speaking slang did'nt hinder my ability to speak on an interview. And I don't believe it hinders my young people either. They know how to turn on the bull when trying to get something that they want. Mr.Cosby, himself dropped out of school in the tenth grade. Although he continued his education once in the service, he too came from the ghetto and conquered his dreams. I guess with each step he took toward being accepted in white society, he lost a piece of his past.
I think the NAACP did'nt respond accordingly to Mr.Cosby's was because he caught them off guard with his remarks. (Smh) With the Civil Rights Movement, Womens Liberations, And the poisoning of my people with the drugs boom going on, My people lost sight of the reality of the white man's intentions to keep us as an oppressed people. We lost our identity and have been struggling even more so every since.

Did'nt we always have a language of our own? From the very time our people were kidnapped from the motherland. Even after they killed and beat our language out of us. We had song and pig-latin. As I was growing-up in the late 70's the language was called slang. Now it is called ebonics. We are a unique people. We have always had our own language. And from what I see, The white man and his children are rapidly trying to understand what we are talking about. Is'nt ebonics a college course now? See, When we start kicking our own creativity in a language that they don't understand, yt gets nervous and puts the pressure on our so called well educated black people, who are so desparatly trying to fit in their circle. Speaking slang did'nt hinder my ability to speak on an interview. And I don't believe it hinders my young people either. They know how to turn on the bull when trying to get something that they want. Mr.Cosby, himself dropped out of school in the tenth grade. Although he continued his education once in the service, he too came from the ghetto and conquered his dreams. I guess with each step he took toward being accepted in white society, he lost a piece of his past.
I think the NAACP did'nt respond accordingly to Mr.Cosby's was because he caught them off guard with his remarks. (Smh) With the Civil Rights Movement, Womens Liberations, And the poisoning of my people with the drugs boom going on, My people lost sight of the reality of the white man's intentions to keep us as an oppressed people. We lost our identity and have been struggling even more so every since.

You have just articulated what I couldn't in my last 3 or 4 posts. Much love to you and know that we will ALWAYS CREATE, no matter who or what will try to catch on and destroy. One Love.

"A-U-M"

Python,

Ebonics does not lower one's values. I'm sure Cosby spoke it as a child growing up. Fat Albert is proof of that. Values and positive educational messages was delivered to young T.V. viewers of Fat Albert, a telvision show using only Ebonics, so what are you saying? Fat Albert spearheaded Ebonics so What is Cosby Saying. Ebonics is only slang that has been redefined as Ebonics, attributed to uneducated blacks therefore putting a negative connotation on it. Cosby is the one putting black youths down and throwing stones towards something he participated, contributed and spearheaded.
Again, "slang" is and always has been. It exist in all languages. This is just another example of blacks being targeted and stereotyped by the pettiest means as speaking slang and redefining it to degrade, belittle us as a people.

reparation for repatriation=nation state=Africa

hotep!

Wow, loving this thread. Aum, well said. Bill just wants all Blacks to assimilate to the White lifestyle, when Blacks are just trying to build their own culture in America. He can't get mad at kids for trying to do that. I have mixed feelings however. I do believe education is important, but I do not believe that you have to speak a certain why to be educated.

Wow this was eye opening. I am poor but I can speak different slangs as well as proper english. I'm still struggling. In stead of focusing on raising awareness about speech he ( Mr. Cosby) should be raising awareness about education. Education is what's gonna get you to success. Education on your heritage, history, and also others heritage and history. How can one proceed with out knowing what has been done, what's out there, and where they've been. If one doesn't know these things it's more likely they'll just keep going in the same direction that proved to be fatal the first, second, and third time. I am very disappointed that some one in his position that can up lift and encourage our children, who's supposed to be intelligent could actually say something as dumb as this. No matter how you speak if you have the knowledge no one can take it away from you.(ie talking slang will help you reach the urban patients, you'll understand them and they'll trust you. Knowing what you are talking about will not only impress other patients they will appreciate your individuality) I'm truely disappointed in Mr. Cosby and I ask, why are so many famous African americans belittling them selves and our comunities just to have a white man's approval. It's a shame how our ancestors fought so hard for us and those who have made it has not only act as if all is forgotten they degrade their own people to make them selves feel superior. It's really sad.


Poetic Sista

reminds me of Orwell's book "animal farm"
after the pigs led the revolution you couldn't tell the difference between the pigs and the overseers.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Fact # 3. What we call Ebonics is actually the remnants of our "Mother Tongue" (which we forgot) trying to over-ride or interfere with the imposed language we now speak. The syntax of how we say certain words is a genetic factor beyond our control. An example of this is in words like "this, that, ask, going, and many many other words.

Why is this ? Because in the African language group there does not exist prefixes like "TH" in the word "this or that", so instead we say "dis or dat". There are no suffixes like "ING", so instead of pronouncing a word like "going", we would naturally pronounce it "gowen" or sayen instead of saying". Therefore what we call Ebonics is sumthin (something)we should all be proud of and embrace as the cultural over-ride that it is.


If this is the case how do you expain black folk speaking other languages than english properly? for example french, spanish, german, english(british style). Can this also be used to define the difference between regional accents? for example the bronx vs west texas, or castilian vs andalusia dialects?


genetic

adj 1: tending to occur among members of a family usually by heredity; "an inherited disease"; "familial traits"; "genetically transmitted features" [syn: familial, hereditary, inherited, transmitted, transmissible] 2: of or relating to or produced by or being a gene; "genic combinations"; "genetic code" [syn: genic] 3: of or relating to the science of genetics; "genetic research" [syn: genetical]

Unless its something to do with a speach impediment. or inability to form certain sounds. Which would still not explain the usage of other languages, why only american english???? :gas: