Sisters, in my quest to always bring interesting topics to the table for discussion, I recently found a paper that I thought would make an excellent topic for us to discuss here and/or in Sister Chat. It's titled "What African American Women Deserve", written by Brendan Ballard (2002).

Here's a brief excerpt:

"The image of black women as oversexed welfare mothers, too lazy to work but all too eager to cheat the system, has been a mainstay in America's consciousness since the Reagan era. In this instance, black women are seen as too powerful--able not only to negotiate, but also to manipulate the system in their favor."

"To evaluate the status of African American women in the United States is to implicitly and explicitly make judgements about the value of societal systems such as patriarchy and capitalism. Deciding on the policies that will most aid the black community involves questions that are at once theoretical and practical: Is the nuclear family the best structure in which to raise children? Is the definition of family contingent on a male breadwinner and a female caregiver? Do we provide government-funded childcare for working single mothers? Is violence against women necessary to uphold male order? How do we create domestic violence shelters that are welcoming to black as well as white women?"

I invite you to read this paper, think about the position of the author on this important topic and let's have a serious and deep discussion of it.

http://www.pubpol.duke.edu/courses/pps273/ballard_1.pdf

Queenie :spinstar:

Sisters, in my quest to always bring interesting topics to the table for discussion, I recently found a paper that I thought would make an excellent topic for us to discuss here and/or in Sister Chat. It's titled "What African American Women Deserve", written by Brendan Ballard (2002).

Here's a brief excerpt:

"The image of black women as oversexed welfare mothers, too lazy to work but all too eager to cheat the system, has been a mainstay in America's consciousness since the Reagan era. In this instance, black women are seen as too powerful--able not only to negotiate, but also to manipulate the system in their favor."

"To evaluate the status of African American women in the United States is to implicitly and explicitly make judgements about the value of societal systems such as patriarchy and capitalism. Deciding on the policies that will most aid the black community involves questions that are at once theoretical and practical: Is the nuclear family the best structure in which to raise children? Is the definition of family contingent on a male breadwinner and a female caregiver? Do we provide government-funded childcare for working single mothers? Is violence against women necessary to uphold male order? How do we create domestic violence shelters that are welcoming to black as well as white women?"

I invite you to read this paper, think about the position of the author on this important topic and let's have a serious and deep discussion of it.

http://www.pubpol.duke.edu/courses/pps273/ballard_1.pdf

Queenie :spinstar:

Hi NNQ...
Surely I am interested in reading this but it wouldn't let me open the file for some reason...I will try again.

Sister Queen, I hope you find the reason for not being able to open the file soon and fix it. It's a 21 page pdf and is a very interesting read. I think Brothers will find it interesting also because it addresses every day issues that most Black women face and offers solutions or remedies based on a societal level. In it we might begin to find answers to a number of social questions we ask here all the time and it may offer us some tangible ways in which we can get more involved in our communities. If nothing else, it starts with dialogue and I think we should discuss the author's facts and see where we can go from there. Push come to shove and I will email the document to you as an attachment. Just let me know.

Peace and support sister!
Queenie :spinstar:

Excellent find Queen,

The only thing that rubs me about the article is that it relies on White Women coming to Our rescue.
As strange as it may seem, I think that if anyone does the rescuing it is of Us doing so for them.
I do believe that Black Women have to get back to communitiship. I don't think that Black Men can or even will help the process. Not today. Not Right Now.
I agree with the author's statements that the issues of Black Women are and have always been pushed aside. And the biggest perpetrators of this are Us-Black Women. I believe within the soul and core of my being that, "Black Women Love Their Sons and Raise Daughters." I believe in the core of my being that We Women believe that "We are not women Unless We have A Man."
Surely, these traits are not just within Our Spectrum; and I would like to suggest that this is far more prevalent within the Majority's Community...and I think that it is truth; so is abuse and violence...But, that is not the issue; and as much as I say stop comparing, I do-- that is a habit that I am consciously trying to rid myself of; so I will stick to the issue of Us.

Most of What We discuss and banter about and harangue each other about is Our Black Men. I read several articles just recently and all they talked about was schools for Black Boys and Men; help for Black Men... and I found myself saying; "What about Black Girls and Women?"

I have said a thousand times; " We cannot dream about a Knight In Shining Armour..." coming to rescue Us. We never could. That is not a negative. That is a plus. Usually, Black Girls and Women; go it along.... holding and raising discarded seeds...sometimes after the sacrafice, discarded by the seeds. I think that If Black Women would find it within themselves to Coalition with each other.... use the strength of the Tree Women inside of Us...things can and will change.

If We start talking and saying to each other; "Spreading your legs does not make you a woman or make you whole... Having babies that you cannot support does not mean that you are a woman... Staying in an abusive relationship does not make you a woman... Dying from Aids for a few minutes of a thrill is going to kill you.... Standing By A Man who rather put his and yours and Our lives in jeopardy for some Bling-Bling does not make you a woman.... Not Reporting A Rape Because his skin looks like yours isn't helping Us or you....etc..."

BUT WHAT WE SURELY MUST DO IS TALK AND TELL EACH OTHER--"I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY."
WE BETTER LEARN TO SAY AND DO...RESPECT...

-never talk about another woman with a man; esp. if it is negative
-never spend time with a man without his wife or girlfriend present; repect her relationship
-ostracize boys and men who are disrespectful to girls and women...ostracize and send to jail men and boys who abuse women and girls in any way form or fashion
-if your "man" has men friends who abuse women and girls, give him an option- cut him loose or cut you loose
-No Man wants women fighting over him; Respect Yourself enough not to do that...
ETC...ETC....
Those are just some of the things that I grew up hearing from my parent's and siblings.

I think that African-American Women can get some really good things happening... there are several organizations that have been reported on recently...political and social organizations that African-American Women have started; tackling some of the problems that befall Us.

But, Queen, you know what is at the Core of All This?

African-American women have to Learn About Their Beauty and Power.

Excellent find Queen,

The only thing that rubs me about the article is that it relies on White Women coming to Our rescue.
As strange as it may seem, I think that if anyone does the rescuing it is of Us doing so for them.
I do believe that Black Women have to get back to communitiship. I don't think that Black Men can or even will help the process. Not today. Not Right Now.
I agree with the author's statements that the issues of Black Women are and have always been pushed aside. And the biggest perpetrators of this are Us-Black Women. I believe within the soul and core of my being that, "Black Women Love Their Sons and Raise Daughters." I believe in the core of my being that We Women believe that "We are not women Unless We have A Man."
Surely, these traits are not just within Our Spectrum; and I would like to suggest that this is far more prevalent within the Majority's Community...and I think that it is truth; so is abuse and violence...But, that is not the issue; and as much as I say stop comparing, I do-- that is a habit that I am consciously trying to rid myself of; so I will stick to the issue of Us.

Most of What We discuss and banter about and harangue each other about is Our Black Men. I read several articles just recently and all they talked about was schools for Black Boys and Men; help for Black Men... and I found myself saying; "What about Black Girls and Women?"

I have said a thousand times; " We cannot dream about a Knight In Shining Armour..." coming to rescue Us. We never could. That is not a negative. That is a plus. Usually, Black Girls and Women; go it along.... holding and raising discarded seeds...sometimes after the sacrafice, discarded by the seeds. I think that If Black Women would find it within themselves to Coalition with each other.... use the strength of the Tree Women inside of Us...things can and will change.

If We start talking and saying to each other; "Spreading your legs does not make you a woman or make you whole... Having babies that you cannot support does not mean that you are a woman... Staying in an abusive relationship does not make you a woman... Dying from Aids for a few minutes of a thrill is going to kill you.... Standing By A Man who rather put his and yours and Our lives in jeopardy for some Bling-Bling does not make you a woman.... Not Reporting A Rape Because his skin looks like yours isn't helping Us or you....etc..."

BUT WHAT WE SURELY MUST DO IS TALK AND TELL EACH OTHER--"I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY."
WE BETTER LEARN TO SAY AND DO...RESPECT...

-never talk about another woman with a man; esp. if it is negative
-never spend time with a man without his wife or girlfriend present; repect her relationship
-ostracize boys and men who are disrespectful to girls and women...ostracize and send to jail men and boys who abuse women and girls in any way form or fashion
-if your "man" has men friends who abuse women and girls, give him an option- cut him loose or cut you loose
-No Man wants women fighting over him; Respect Yourself enough not to do that...
ETC...ETC....
Those are just some of the things that I grew up hearing from my parent's and siblings.

I think that African-American Women can get some really good things happening... there are several organizations that have been reported on recently...political and social organizations that African-American Women have started; tackling some of the problems that befall Us.

But, Queen, you know what is at the Core of All This?

African-American women have to Learn About Their Beauty and Power.


Happy I wanna give you big props for being so honest here, sorely needed :bowdown:

Thank you Sekhemu, thank you...

Love is honesty.

In a recent discussion I had with a younger Black woman, she said that the reason that she uses profanity when she writes and speaks was so that she would be seen as "down" by her peers. Not judging this young sister's choices, but it made me stop and think about the lengths that we will go to be a member of a group or stand alone on principles and personal beliefs.

Many of us know full well how peer pressure and acceptance influences us. No one wants to feel alienated or ostracized because we are different. We want to be a part of a group because to be a part of a group means you're not alone and many of us are afraid of taking a stand on our convictions if it renders us a lonely life.

Sister Happy, you are right when you wrote that we, as Black women, must be willing to stand up and speak out against things that we view as being destructive to us and our community. Standing up together for what we believe is good and honest, will separate us from those that are weaker and willing to compromise their principles.

How do we help ourselves? By helping each other. Many of us have forgotten how important it is to do that. We are confused when it comes to the way we think about ourselves in relationship to each other such that we don't see the many things we do every day that are harmful and destructive. Simple things such as not speaking to each other when we pass; gossiping about each other over some petty issue; jealousies over this and that; and yes, when we aren't willing to be honest about our relationships with Black men.

Why are there increasing numbers of African American women suffering from depression these days? Because many of us are living a lie and trying to fight against the contradictions alone.

Queenie :spinstar:

DELETED - SEE ME FOR INPUT

All some of these women deserve is a bullet to the chest.

And the others deserve a good man.

DELETED - SEE ME FOR INPUT

Ya Know Ced. We been saying this for years they aint hearing us. They will go chase after the boo boo dude with not stability or no future before they holla at the brotha that shares their vision.

Thus, the reason why some need a bullet to the chest, they are a waste of oxygen.

DELETED - SEE ME FOR INPUT

I do not raise other people children, that is your job not mine. Secondly some of these women are a waste of oxygen and we are having a population problem anyway, they could help out the world by eliminating themselves or someone could do it for them.

Sister Queen, I hope you find the reason for not being able to open the file soon and fix it. It's a 21 page pdf and is a very interesting read. I think Brothers will find it interesting also because it addresses every day issues that most Black women face and offers solutions or remedies based on a societal level. In it we might begin to find answers to a number of social questions we ask here all the time and it may offer us some tangible ways in which we can get more involved in our communities. If nothing else, it starts with dialogue and I think we should discuss the author's facts and see where we can go from there. Push come to shove and I will email the document to you as an attachment. Just let me know.

Peace and support sister!
Queenie :spinstar:

I know it's been awhile, but I just re-tried to open this file, to no avail. If and when you have the time, I would love for you to e-mail me the document. Sorry it took me so long to reply. my thanks in advance...queentswana

Brother Manasiac, I realize that you have the right to say what you think in these discussions but I refuse to continue to sit here and read you advocating violence against women. It's beneath all of us, it's crude and personally, I find it to be offensive. Sentiments like that do nothing to uplift, enlighten or enrich. All you're doing is polluting this community. Now I've read your opinion that you think that women are intimidated by you but that's not the case here. The sisters in this community, young and old, deserve more respect. So I'm asking you politely to stop taking these discussions to this pathological level. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Peace,
Queen :spinstar:

I do not expect to intimidate people via discussion board, that is pretty boo boo. I was talking about in person. I am sure I have no effect on people via a computer. You should not get offensive at stuff you think that does not pertain to you. I will say whatever I want to say when I want to say it. As long as I pay my membership fees, I should be entitled to say what I want, I do not use profanity nor do I call folks out of their name, I simply speak opinions like other folks do.. If that is not the case, then you can refund the lil bit of pennies that I spent and my home girl spent, and I will ride out.

If you think, I am crazy enough to believe; I scare someone with words on a message board maybe you need to see a doctor yourself. I am not that stupid, if anyone is afraid of what someone says on the internet, they need to see a doctor too.

My comments are strictly my opinion. If you feel the need to Ban me, do yo thang bruh.

I refuse to be censored for something I pay for. Like I said in the aforementioned statements, refund us our pennies and I will ride out. Because you will probably be a ban me anyway after this post, because I purportedly cause dis-unity and whatever.

Every opinion I post on this thread I defend. I make my opinions with every intention to defend them and I stand by them 100 percent. Notice I don’t get bent out of shape when people say something offensive to me on the board. I answer them and challenge them to defend their position. I do not run and cry to a mod when I’m disrespected. I stand firm and handle it like an adult.

The forum needs some sort of uniform standard for censorship. There are others who have made similar commentary which nothing has been said about, there are others who make lacerating comments and it is cool; I do not need to names, I am pretty sure you are aware of everything. So with that said, do what you must bruh. I do not see you. I still love you and respect you and I hope the best for you.

I do not expect to intimidate people via discussion board, that is pretty boo boo. I was talking about in person. I am sure I have no effect on people via a computer. You should not get offensive at stuff you think that does not pertain to you. I will say whatever I want to say when I want to say it. As long as I pay my membership fees, I should be entitled to say what I want, I do not use profanity nor do I call folks out of their name, I simply speak opinions like other folks do.. If that is not the case, then you can refund the lil bit of pennies that I spent and my home girl spent, and I will ride out.

If you think, I am crazy enough to believe; I scare someone with words on a message board maybe you need to see a doctor yourself. I am not that stupid, if anyone is afraid of what someone says on the internet, they need to see a doctor too.

My comments are strictly my opinion. If you feel the need to Ban me, do yo thang bruh.

I refuse to be censored for something I pay for. Like I said in the aforementioned statements, refund us our pennies and I will ride out. Because you will probably be a ban me anyway after this post, because I purportedly cause dis-unity and whatever.

Every opinion I post on this thread I defend. I make my opinions with every intention to defend them and I stand by them 100 percent. Notice I don’t get bent out of shape when people say something offensive to me on the board. I answer them and challenge them to defend their position. I do not run and cry to a mod when I’m disrespected. I stand firm and handle it like an adult.

The forum needs some sort of uniform standard for censorship. There are others who have made similar commentary which nothing has been said about, there are others who make lacerating comments and it is cool; I do not need to names, I am pretty sure you are aware of everything. So with that said, do what you must bruh. I do not see you. I still love you and respect you and I hope the best for you.

No Brother MANASIAC, you will not say whatever you want here. Premium Membership does not include that luxury. We have standards that all Members must live up to, Premium or not. While the $30.00 that you gave, has been spent, i will do my best to return it to you ... even though our payment form clearly states, NO REFUNDS ... and i have no obligation to do so. Please let me know where to send it.

Did you call Sister Queenie, "bruh?" After she's shown you nothing but love, your entire time here ... i will hope that it was just some sort of typo ... rather than the disrespect such an act could be perceived as.

Our Moderators are here for Members to "run to," should the need arise, though i doubt that happened in this case ... as our Moderators are very active Members of this community as well, and address issues as they see them.

It has always been an option, for Members to report possible violations to us. If you have seen posts that could qualify, but didn't mention them then, why mention them now? We don't see every post and depend on the Family to help us moderate this, our home. If you see a violation, please report it.

Managing this community is quite a challenge, and we have always welcomed the Family's help regarding what works best for us. I recently posted a, "Discussion Etiquette Thread (http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26418)," asking for the Family's help in maintaining our peaceful existence. I don't believe you've commented yet, but you are certainly welcome to.

Brother MANASIAC ... i'm not sure how to describe our acquaintance, but i'm glad i've had the pleasure of making it. You are a very intelligent, articulate, and endearing young man. While this may not be the community for you, whichever is, i'm sure you'll be an asset to them.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

Ya Know Ced. We been saying this for years they aint hearing us. They will go chase after the boo boo dude with not stability or no future before they holla at the brotha that shares their vision.

Thus, the reason why some need a bullet to the chest, they are a waste of oxygen.

I AGREE THOSE WOMEN ARE A WASTE OF TIME BRO. BUT A BULLET TO THE CHEST? WHY ARE ADVOCATING "SMOKING" SISTAS JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING BAD CHOICES THAT AFFECT THEM? THAT'S WRONG BRO.


THAT'S MY "BIG" OPINION.

some of them are just a waste oxygen I think it is justifiable we can slow down the populaton boom :-)

some of them are just a waste oxygen I think it is justifiable we can slow down the populaton boom :-)


Sound like you got some anger issues dog...or some woman did you real dirty and now you got a problem with women that you perceive as having some of the same traits as her...anyway dont' trip sometimes I feel like well I just feel like doing bad stuff to folk...anyway..I was always taught that no adult deserves anything just for being here you have to earn what you get...not sure how we as Black men can help Black women with their issues when we haven't taken care of our own issues yet...and then throw in some of us half breed brothers and sisters and you have another whole gumbo pot of issues that have to be worked out...bad decisions are bad decisions everybody is going to make them and no ethnicity has 100% success as far as everyone is helping each other and doing well emotionally, mentally, etc .. and as far as women chasing the boo boo dude..(that's cracking me up) with no stability or no future..well I was that cat and in some ways still am I'm a trifling nword..(can I say that) wasn't nothing good about me earlier in life man nothing but through time and patience, and preseverance I'm finally starting to get things together kinda sorta..at this time I haven't worked in 2 years but still manage to get things done around the house..and am in school now working on an AA but the thing is how do you determine who has a future and who doesn't the cat that's boo boo today may become the man in the future and the dude that's riding on top now just may apply for that boo boo card at sometime in his life...Life is funny that way ...the same things that we say sistas do to us we do to them so we're both screwing the pooch in many ways...I can't have no problem with Black women man my mama's Black but as far as what they or even we deserve...Nothing! nada, not nary a thing....we have to earn whatever love, respect, admiration, or whatever we get....but just don't go putting extra holes in folk because you don't like the things they do or decisions they make..we kill each other more than enough without any help....

Mississippi Red

Just when you think you the one doing the screwing you wind up being the one getting screwed. :smokin:

each and every woman sista is worth and hold value the choice
they make is deep but men make some bad choices too and get
treated raw which reflects back at the next sista come alone seem
like this your view brutha Manasiac for what it's worth let it be known
if it wasn't for these same women you degrade you wouldn't be
the mirror is next to you looking deep coz what u say is already in front
of you low blow bruh , these are Queenz a treasure and gift to man
wake up ya still sleep inside the past pain release it let go and love
thy sista for if every woman was gone what would you do or be !
don't trade let the womanizing go! beware of how you breath
for the worth of a woman demand RESPECT so forth honor it, cause really
African women deserve the best men can offer for all they give and show
to bruthas daily and the flicked pain they indure to bring forth life to men
like you know thy sistas as Mothers as mothers is thy sista ((SHAME ON U))
((((DO VISIT THE SERIES OF CONFESSION OF DA WOMB )))) in Quiet flowz fourm
so speaketh SADIEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!! :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:

You know, in some cultures, a woman is held in the highest esteem because she can do what no man can: give birth. Every last man in this world, after Adam, was born of a woman. Do you love your mother? Then you should at least respect another woman simply because one day, if not today, she'll be somebody's mother. I can only hope that my son will respect me when he grows older.

As to what we, as African-American women, deserve?

We deserve to respect ourselves. Once we learn self respect, we will earn the respect of our brothers. There is no way in the world we can demand respect for the brother we just finished dry humping at the club.

What do we deserve?

We deserve to stop being catty with one another. We deserve to stop tearing down our brothers. We deserve to uplift our race. Brothers and sisters NEED each other. If this race is to continue, we need to come together as a people. I swear, some of us do not know how to spell UNITY, let alone put it into practice......