Yep! Why not? It may lead to better understanding.

In my last topic of discusion it was mentioned, women most often are the one who leaves/abandon a relationship/marriage. Well here it goes......I do agree with that. However, I believe some, even most women have good reason(s) Sometimes due to abusiveness,infidelity,financial hardship(meaning) just to be clear....monies loss to....gambling,hangin out with the boys (a lot), addictions etc. Now let me be the first to say. I'm not saying women do not possess some or all of these behaviors. This is only in defense of women who leave/abandon relationships/marriages due to what I would consider legitimate reasons.
Now I'm going out on a limb with this statement and most probably won't agree(mainly SOME men), but here it comes.......I also believe (some)even most women learn unfavorable behavioral habits from men, referring to....wanting their cake and eat it too. They've been subjected to that kind of treatment for so long, I believe it has come to a point where they've said Hey! If you can't beat'em, join'em. It doesn't make it right, but does it make it fair? :confused:

I don't totally agree with you on the money issue. Tell me something Kem? You've mentioned a lot about documentation, have you ever came across documents that states the good women do. I only read negative out burst about women from you. When I read how you address women it puts me in mind of the latest rap music, hoodrat b, chicken head, project h, ect. I've looked over topics you and I have discussed and other topics you have discussed with others and I don't recall reading anything you've said nice about a woman. I could be mistaken, because I haven't read everything you've written. I know that I've directed all my line of questioning to why men do the things they do, but I mention on a number of occasions not all men. I'm not judging you,but this is how I read you. I'm sure you're a very nice person, but it seems to me.......that you had some damage done to you by a woman(men) and you haven't recovered yet. I came to that conclusion because I haven't read anything you've said good about women. Please correct me if I'm wrong? I know you will....lol

First lemme say.......I was not man bashing. I was asking questions about some men and their behavior. Is that man bashing? If so, I didn't mean it as so. I also didn't mean you were a misogynist. I merely stated that I haven't read anything positive you wrote about women YET. Was that saying you are a misogynist? That is YOUR word. I wonder why? lol.........
You know, I know what 2+2 =. All I'm trying to get you to agree on is, what you just did..... or tried to. Is MEN DO share some of the responsibility for failed relationships/marriages. No matter how we arrange relationships/marriages there are 2 people, therefor, both bear some of the weight. Now the percentage, I don't know.
Just when things were getting better, you gotta go and finish with another negative remark. lol.....How about we agree.....out of women's 50%, they talk about it 25% of the time. How's that?...lol
And again, I WAS NOT BASHING MEN. LOL

I ain't got nuffin but love for ya:love:
Coco

There is no need for name calling, You Misogynist.:D I'm trying to keeps this adult like, but you keep trying to pick a fight with me.:D
Ummmm! Dominatrix...lol....so not me. That's funny.
Maybe you're not use to dealing with a strong yet gentle black woman.:heart:

K'stry, K'stry, you are so so predictable...

and yes, you do believe that if a woman doesn't agree with your assessments then we are bigot, dominatrix, etc.

and yes you do come off being misogynist, chauvinistic (sp), a "woman basher".

I agree with Coco, women do leave. Unfortunately alot of them wait too late. After years of emotional and mental and even physical abuse the women finally regain the strength to leave. They say **** what Kemet and society might say. :) Alot of times women become so much apart of the man they lose themselves.

I said to both men and women, if the **** ain't working and you've been trying to for years, or if it an abusive relationship -- Get the **** out!!!

BTW, did i say Good Morning!!!

the old 2+2=4

:D

Thandiwe, I'm reading your reply now. LOL
Yeah, he used it and used it and used it...lol I know when he reads this he's going to play the victim and say we're teaming up on him, then women will really be mud....lol
thanks for your input.

;)

Kemetstry will just contribute this to us being women who never had independent men...:toast:

He used this one on me today too. LOL

Peace and Love to you Kemetstry! :love: :

"women learn unfavorable behavioral habits from men"

The truth of the matter is some women and men learn to accept unfavorable behavioral habits within themselves and do NOTHING about it. Baggage? Carrying past issues and ideologies into a new relationship.

Women and men need to get their SCHIT TOGETHER before they come out the house claiming maturity and its consequences.

Screw the whoa is meism and BE STRONG and have CONVICTION in everything. Including SELF.

I don't get it Nexis...explain please.

BTW, how do? You okay today?

I couldn't agree with you more on the baggage, issues, conviction of self and everything comment. However, I do believe some women become tired of being the victim(messed over) so they decide to be the giver of bad treatment instead of the receiver. I feel this is the case with some men as well.

Nexis is a man...and a friend a mine...:eek:

Daring yes, is that too much for you???;)

only when a woman agrees with your opinion, that you consider her intellegent?

and your answer is what????

you say no, but you posts resoundingly shout YES!!!

btw Kemetstry, allow me to introduce myself. check your private messaging...:D

since you seem to think men come first,

Does your mom know you think such things about women?! :eek: :p

I've been conversing with you for DAYS now and not one time have you used the words intellengence or good taste in any of your opinion of women until you thought Nexis was a woman who somewhat agreed with you. However, I do recall your use of the word STUPID.

Is it gettin a bit HOT:hot: up in here?....lol
Who done turned up da heat:D

yeah, it is getting a bit humid...

Kemetstry, like Coco, I haven't seen you say too many good things about women either...

???

Interesting you consider your female relatives to be strong and independent, real but you can't see the same in other women. Or that could be my mistake...

It isn't always how/what a person was/is taught, it's how they absorb and use it. Also,sometimes what one learned(s) goes OUT THE WINDOW when they've had an unpleasant experience.

Madlove:heart: Coco

we were in a chatroom waiting for you. but now I've been booted...

cocobutterskyn and Thandiwe,

Claiming victim status is a return of SELF to a state of arrested development. When learning to ride a bike, one falls off and get back on with it. The LEARNING. Scrapes, bumps, boo-boos... trail and error.

Not giving up when the opportunity presents itself again.

Yes I am a MAN. Come on now. All these years men and women should round out some degree of TRUTH of the other with MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING.

:wave:

I thought we all learn from our mistakes/CHOICES. Claiming victim status is non-growth on both parties. (GENOCIDE)

so basically that message is intended for Kemetstry.

Nexis you've known me for a while and you should have learned by now that I see fault in both men and women. And yes, we should learn from our experiences.

Its directed at the ACTIONS/IDEAS in the minds of those, men and women, who lay blame on the other.

( If I only had a dollar for NO and TKO )

I'm not bitter about it. I luzzzzzzz me some women.

:devil:
My name is yum yum gimme some!

Thandi, now come get some candy! :kiss:

If you read over my first topic How/why men walk away. I stated in there, that both men/women should accept responsibility for their action/choices. That is how Kem and I ended up with this topic. Also notice Kem's replies are all ATTACKING women and professing men are innocent and not responsible for choices which take 2 parties.
I agree with what you've stated.

Don't feel guilty, Nexis wasn't talking toyou.

After that beatdown last night, i don't think "K" will be talking as much **** anymore. :D:D:D

cocobutterskyn, I understand the thread/tread. I just have to give voice against BLAMING the other. Its unfair. I'm sure all of US know of men and women who are guilty of BLAME.(crutch)

:love:

I really wonder sometimes.

The chase. Independence. Dating. The nonverbal communication. The laundry list of superficial qualities. Personal advancement. Dinner. Breakfast. The workweek lunches. The invitations. The call you back. The call me. The white man on her arm. The white woman on his arm. Hitting a spot.....

I really wonder. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Thandi, Girl you crazy.....lol
But you're right, he was a bit humble lastnight.:D

Nexis, I heard your voice loud and clear. I hear where you're coming from. I applaud your way of thinking.

MadLove:heart: Coco

I was crazy, I'v e seen you over at EB!!!

and you're ab SOUL utely right. if we continue to blame the other, then we fail the see the wrong in ourselves. but ont the same token, we can't blame ourselves or the other in relationship, we should equally yoked....but then again, we see only th blame in ourselves and that ain't good either...

Beautifully said Thandi:toast:

MadLove:heart: Coco

I thought you ran away, oops I meant retreated.:D Yes you did play the blame game. You stated the children suffer due to women's STUPID choices/mistakes. That's blaming women for single parent households. Is it not? Correct me if I'm mistaken? Of course I know you will, as always. By the way, the conversation doesn't have to stop, because you need time away. Women can carry on a conversation without a man's help.:D Oh! and more name calling, go on the NUT? lol What's up with that? lol

Happy Monday Kem

MadLove:heart: Coco

No situation, No matter what, is exactly the same. You have told me nothing I don't already know. All I'm simply trying to say on a MORAL issue/level both should accept responsibility. Lets forget all the written crap. We've been raising children and surviving relationships/marriages long before all the documentation had been written and back then our children were raised more wholesome and relationships/marriages were long lasting. If you ask me and I know you didn't.lol... It's because all our reading of what others think we should do has been part of our problem. If we would revert back to the old school in behaving like our grandparents(both) not just grandma and their parents before them. We wouldn't be dealing with this type of aftermath. Most of Our people had God in their lives and did what was right. As you stated there are differences. We have differences in raising our children and surviving our relationships/marriages, due to our history. Most of the documentation is written by social groups who can't even begin to understand us and probably never will.
Lets be real Kem, at a moral stand point. You don't feel men should offer their assistance in the developement of their child, NO MATTER what the circumstances are?

MadLove:heart: Coco

okay good afternoon to all who have ventured into this fray. I have been watching and well hoping this forum would come to a level of understanding. I must agree with Kemetsry's comments earlier although his tactic was a little harsh but his views are correct and after reading this post in it's entirety, he has been proven correct. The main point of this discussion is that men are aware of their shortcomings, as well as woman are aware of thier own, but must it become common practice for woman to constantly remind men of their mistakse and yet not take/accept responsisbility for their own?

The most painful experience for a man is when he stands up, apologizes for his actions, and the woman chooses to belittle him evan more becuase they don't think he has suffered enough. There are times when men will accept responsibility for things they have not done just to keep the peace and in the process os tore down and given advice on how to better themselves. Men are capable of achieving a lot and not all men are dogs. Put yourself in the man's shoes when he says "I'm Sorry" and the woman snaps back "You should ba aan dyou better do it right the next time." That is not true love or forgiveness and honestly if i was in a relationship like that then that is when the relationship would end.

The premise of this forum is this: before trying to remove the splinter out of a man's eye, how about removing the plank out of yours. Society has become a place of "Who's the WEakest Gender (link)" when in reality it should find a common ground in which both work upon.

I find it, in my personal life, that when i am man enough to apologize and accept the responsibility for my actions, the woman tend to remind me of that down the line and yet when they are found in the wrong, it is because of something i either said or done. My question today is this? Why does it happen like that? Now before anyone says it's just an isolated incident, i want you to know that this same discussion is going on among men all over the country. I don't have statistics like Kemet but i do have practical conversations.

Ladies, i am not here to tear you down, i am seeking revelation. This blame game/always the victim process must stop. I read your responses but i ask you this. In your mindset, you have apologized and stood up for your actions, but can that same perception be valid in the eyes of the one whom was on the receiveing end to the wrongdoing? We have to see it from their eyes first and then move on from there.

Men should be equally responsible for raising the child but that means more than just monetary funding. I feel that it is unfair for men to continually financially support a child and yet they cannot see the child for the mother doesn't WANT the man in the child's life. My question is this? If the woman doesn't want the man to ahve anything to do with the child, then why take him for child support? I'm not talking about all scenarios of this, just this particular area. This is unfair and makes the process an opening for the child to feel depraved and the father to alienate his child. This, is the mother's decision and the man must suffer. It also gives a bad impression of the mother and her intentions.

Once again i say that the responsibility should fall on both parties as well as time spent with the child...

As always I welcome your comments. I agree with your financial view, I've believe money is valuable in the raising of children, but time, quality time spent is also just has valuable. A father/parent could send massive amounts of money, however I feel its the emotional and physical contact that the children need most. I would also like to add that, I personally applaud a man who can admit to his shortcomings. I know it's difficult for anyone to do so and even more difficult for men. I feel (some)men base most situations as an attack on his manhood, which he holds so dear. It's not always the case. Wrong is wrong, right is right. It's all about doing whats morally correct, be it man or woman. By the way, I totally agree with the splinter and plank remark. I smiled while reading it. We as being human do it often with many situations. Thanks.

MadLove:heart: Coco

Just when I think we've reached common ground you go and flip- flop on me. I agree to agree with half of what you've stated. We as a people need to take back the moral high ground, not only women. Well, Kem I truly must say it's been an interesting discussion. I enjoyed tossing opinions around with you. Thanks
Also thanks to, Thandi,Nexis and Dnommo, It's been a pleasure.

MadLove:heart: Coco

I agree 2+2=4:D
I accept my 50%:D
I agree men are not responsible:D
I agree women make bad choices:D
Now am I a good lil girl?:D

MadLove:heart: Coco

This was so therapeutic. I feel better and more in control. :D
Thank you.

MadLove:heart: Coco

LMAO! You are too much.

MadLove:heart: Coco

I've read most of what everyone said. Now most of yall might not agree with what I'm bout to say, but I'm from the old school. As far as childrearing my children are disciplined by their father and myself. If he says you can't do it then that's what it is. We are together so the child support thing is not an issue. If for some unforseen reason we split today he will see his children and I will not deny him that right. I have two boys and a woman can't raise a boy to be a man. I don't care what you say no way no how. As far as the money issue goes. Some couples have the my money your money syndrome. WE HAVE THE OUR MONEY SYNDROME. All money made goes towards the family. We are allowed an allowance if you will of 75 bucks. That's covers hanging with the fellas or the girls, gifts etc... I'm from the old school like I said. The man is the head of the household point blank end of discussion. Say what you want to say. Hubby and I have been together for 11 years and we have had only two knock down drag out fights. It was over the garbage yall and washing the dishes (lost on the dishes won on the trash). We worked it out though.

I mean I back my husband up 1000% on all matters. If he right or wrong I have to back him up no haps. I don't belittle him nor does he do it to me. In order for us to make it we have to have each others back. I mean he wrong and Im wrong. We call each other on it. Like last week I was supposed to do something for him and I forgot. I honestly forgot. He called me on it and I had to admit that I was wrong because I was the one who said I would do it you know. I agree with D and Kem. When we stop putting a brotha down and let him be a man ...

Also if u are in a non productive relationship be it money, abusive take a close look at the root of the problem get out if it's abusive no questions asked. If you male or female violence is not the answer.

Just ma 2 cents worth. Oh yeah by the way I cook everyday for my men folk to. Some of these less serious problems can be solved with a good home cooked meal :cool:


One

I agree with what you said. The man is head of the household, I was raised that way and I still believe in that. The money issue Ours not mine, women not being able to teach a boy how to be a man and discipline I agree with. All these examples are in a normal functioning household, which sadly are few nowaday.
I feel that a woman should back her husband up 100% when he correct, but if he isn't, then she should not correct him in the presence of others. She should wait until the time is pleasantly presented to discuss it further, as he should do the same. No-one should be belittled. I feel putting anyone down can definitely kill the love someone has for a person, especially a man, they don't enjoy the feeling of their manhood being attacked.
Girl! Your 2 cents is very valuable, your husband and children are blessed.

MadLove to you and your family:heart: Coco

i can always depend on Zorb to step in a abzorb us with wisdom. :D your views are much needed for those who fail to understand this can see by your example that "submission" is not a form of abuse nor is it "incarceration in the home". I strongly believe in submission but more important, submission to one who "leads by example". It is key in maintaining the strong values of the homw as well al allowing the man to be a man in his home. It is quite difficult to be all the man outside the home but come home and be belittled for your actions. This builds up silent frustrations and leads to abusive relationships or abandonment. I think i shall posty a column on submissiveness in the home and see what comes from it.

kem what do you think?

brotha you know I look foward to that colum. Kem don't take it like that. This is something that was taught to me day one you know. Submission isn't a form of slavery or dominance although some people use it that way. Submission is about RESPECT. If I did not RESPECT him or he me I can honestly say I would not be a submissive mate. I don't think anyone would. It's a two way street. True he is head of household but only because we agree to have one another's back. I came to him one day and said we should look into making some money investments blah blah blah. I asked him his opinion, did ma research and brought the facts. A man likes to have a helping hand in major decisions that will affect the outcome of the entire family. Now had I stepped to him with some Mickey Mouse Bull he would have been like please. So again it's simply a RESPECT thang. Kem I took no offense to what you said. I gained from all the comments here. Love this open forum.



One

kem bro...you did what you do best: you force people to address inner feelings. You made people look at themselves while addressing the topic. Although some may not like your tactics that can appreciate your intentions. e've had discussions but never have i allowed it to be more than two striving for understanding. Bro, i don't see what trouble you got into here, and zorb made a point. Discussion forums are jsut that:FORUMS and most of the time it's not pretty...

mad respect to you bro and i look forward to the next one...

Zorb, imma working on it but if you got time check out "How to be a confident Christan Man" it speaks on submission to an extent...

are you saying that Im a dude??? LOL I know what you talking bout. We will read it mos def.

Hey kiss 8th for me and tell her I said hello.

One

now zorb...of all the time i've kown you i would never hve tought of you as a dude. That topic actually provided some insight for both genders as to how the male should stand in his relationship. But i have posted the new topic for you "lady folk" :D

I hadn't shaved in a week so you know:D Imma read it