By Linda Villarosa

HOUSTON — Once a week, the five friends, all members of the Abundant Life Cathedral here, get together to eat sushi, sip wine and talk. But one recent afternoon, the women chose a different activity: They went to see "Not a Day Goes By," a musical about Black men on the "down low" who, while not calling themselves gay or bisexual, have sex with other men, often behind the backs of their wives and girlfriends.

To these women, it was a subject of increasing urgency. "Once I found out how prevalent the down low was in our community, I was very afraid," said one of the women, Tracy Scott, a 37-year-old government relations consultant. Her friend Misha King, 35, said she needed to get as much information as she could, as quickly as she could. "I've been on field trips to the gay bars and have seen guys that look like men you would date," Ms. King said. "I treat every man as a bisexual because I don't want to end up as the sister with HIV."

Click Here To Read The Article In Its Entirety:

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040405/ZNYT02/404050402

Love in the Time of AIDS

By Jabari Asim
Post Staff Writer

My friend Lyah Beth LeFlore has no intention of giving up on love - and why should she? Glamorous and confident at 34, she is likely to remind you of those women who usually grace the cover of Essence magazine. She has been blessed with brains, beauty and the work ethic required to obtain many of the things she wanted when she left St. Louis for New York 13 years ago, including a flourishing career as a writer and producer.

One of her goals - getting married - still eludes her. "I have to remain optimistic when I approach a new relationship," she told me, "because I have to believe that there are good straight men out there."

Click Here To Read The Entire Article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23833-2004Apr19.html

Brother Aqil, again you grace us with your presence by continuing to bring critical issues to the surface and diligently keeping them in our faces to be aware of and focus our attention on. Thank you!

This topic--the "down low"--raises a number of issues for African Americans, including Africans in the Diaspora that go beyond the obvious. The AIDS virus may be the more serious among them, but now we must give serious consideration to the way in which this disease is being spread and its rate of expansion. We must think about what we do today because it definitely will impact our future.

We often discuss openly our issues with homosexuality but seldom do we discuss bisexuality among AA's. From these news articles, bisexual behavior has serious implications that affect us all. No longer is it a private matter between two people. Certainly not when what two people do in the privacy of their bedroom can have such devastating affects on us outside of their union.

I do not indict two people who choose to be together regardless of their gender. But I do have a problem--and a big one--when what they do can literally destroy a nation of people and potentially drive us to extinction.

I vaguely recall Sister Happy69 starting a similar thread asking the question, what do we do about the peril of AIDS in the AA community. Disproportionate ratios or not; desperate Black women or not; seems to me, we need to do more than just talk about this. If the sexual drive is stronger than our drive to live and survive in the most healthy way possible, then something is seriously wrong with us.

What do we do now?

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Brother Aqil,

Do you have permission from Linda Villarosa and Jabari Asim, to post their work here? If so, please include it. Thanks.

:heart:

Destee

An interesting side note to this conversation is that researchers believe that HIV numbers in Africa are being inflated:

http://www.afrol.com/features/11116

I vaguely recall Sister Happy69 starting a similar thread asking the question, what do we do about the peril of AIDS in the AA community. Disproportionate ratios or not; desperate Black women or not; seems to me, we need to do more than just talk about this. If the sexual drive is stronger than our drive to live and survive in the most healthy way possible, then something is seriously wrong with us.

What do we do now?

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:


I would suggest education...but then we educated people on the dangers of unprotected sex (if there is any such thing as protected sex...hmmm) and AIDS simply increased...among blacks.

I believe that a sistah should resolve to deal with this serious problem on a personal basis, by choosing to live a celibate life until she has met a good straight man. It would be perferable to stay celibate until she meets a good virgin (not as rare as they use to be) man or one who has chosen at some point in his life to become celibate. I know this is old fashioned (going all the way back to when God said there is to be no fornicating) but it apparently is the best way to avoid AIDS. Sistahs should resolve to change their sexual behaviour by not being influenced by what she see on TV or hears in music. The position of "looking out for me" is the better than the position of backside. Anything on top of you could prove detrimental. Besides, why risk the state of your health for the sake of an orgasm. :hammer: :cry:
Just my humble opionion.

You know what Brother Pan, whether the numbers are inflated or not, the AIDS virus is still a part of our reality and if knowing this helps us to protect ourselves from being further devastated and destroyed by it, then we should stop and take serious heed to the messages here.

The sad thing is, if "they" can't get you one way, "they" will certainly try and find another way. Between AIDS and fighting and dying in wars, experiencing a low birth rate among more educated Africans, and the disproportionate imprisonment of Black males, what does our future look like?

Queenie :spinstar:

The ways we can reduce HIV are simplistic: Use condoms every time we are sexually active, reduce the amount of sexual partners (can't beat monogamy), stop drug use, cease bi-sexual behaviors, etc. This is how we reduce our HIV numbers, the answer is pretty simple. The problem is.....how many of us are willing to do this?

Therein lies another problem particularly for single Black women when you limit relationships to monogamy. True, this may reduce people's risks of contracting the AIDS virus when people act irresponsibly when they have multiple sexual partners, but it may also perpetuate other existing problems in our community which may not be life threatening but definitely life altering.

What chance does each single Black female that wants a man in her life have if behavior is limited to only 1:1 ratios, particularly considering the fact that the odds are severely against them if they only deal with Black men.

I'm not discounting monogamy as an option for people, but I think that other forms of relationships can be as committed and "safe" as that one if people treat each other respectfully and behave responsibly. I don't think we should rule out variety because the lesson we should learn is more about respect and consideration.

My humble opinion,
Queenie :spinstar:

Therein lies another problem particularly for single Black women when you limit relationships to monogamy. True, this may reduce people's risks of contracting the AIDS virus when people act irresponsibly when they have multiple sexual partners, but it may also perpetuate other existing problems in our community which may not be life threatening but definitely life altering. What chance does each single Black female that wants a man in her life have if behavior is limited to only 1:1 ratios, particularly considering the fact that the odds are severely against them if they only deal with Black men.

How to find a happy relationship is a separate topic than how to prevent the infection & spread of HIV. Again this is reduced only by using condoms, limiting sex partners, stopping drug use, etc. One can rationalize that black women should date other races to prevent HIV infection. However as long as sistas allow men to enter them without condoms, then they will continue to be infected with HIV and other diseases, no matter what race they lay with. The ultimate solution to this problem would be celibacy until marriage, in the absence of this choice (since I know this won't fly with 90% of the world) is use condoms everytime. The condoms should not come off until the ring goes on.....the wedding ring, not the engagement ring. Our community (men & women) refuses to do this, we refuse to change to our own detriment. We continue to refuse condom use, which not only exposes us to disease, it also is the major factor which causes such a high rate of single parent homes in our community. As Joyce pointed out this is about changing one's behavior. The black community continues to engage in self-destructive behavior, and we don't have the disclipline to change....it is suicide.

Brother Pan, I'm sorry I wasn't more clear in my last post and you misunderstood me. I was not writing about "happiness" seeking for Black people, I was writing about access and opportunity for Black women. I also hope you don't think that I was making an argument in favor of Black women seeking relationships with men other than Black men. In addition, I wasn't writing in support of reckless behavior either, I was writing about respect and consideration which are behavioral traits, in my humble opinion. But you're right, Black women should be discriminating about who they give permission to enter their bodies sexually. Which raises another interesting point because according to statistics I've read recently, the increase in AIDS victims are among middle-aged Black women ( 50+) and not younger women. What do you think is going on there?

For me, when sex happens between people is up to the individuals involved. I won't make a moral judgment of people who choose to have sex outside of the institution called "marriage." Besides, it's obvious to me that marriage doesn't protect a person from nor guarantee they won't contract HIV either.

Sexual intercourse--genital to genital penetration--is but ONE way that HIV is spread. LATEX Condoms are only ONE tool that can potentially prevent people from spreading it during genital to genital sex. As you know, people contract HIV, which can lead to AIDS, in monogamous relationships as well because it's not always transmitted through sexual contact. But I understand completely your opinion about behaviors and taking responsibility for such.

Comparatively speaking, I question, however, whether Black people lack anymore self-discipline, or exhibit any more self-destructive behavior, are moralless or are more suicidal in their behavior than anyone else. Frankly, I think we're much too hard on ourselves when or if we think like that. Brother Pan, I believe it was you that pointed out that there are reports that the AIDS numbers among Africans is inflated. I also think, a lot of times, society tries to paint us as "victims" and we take that image on ourselves proudly, which might explain why we sometimes exhibit a careless attitude about some things.

Please don't get me wrong, I know we have issues to deal with and we certainly aren't guiltless in this situation. We can and should take our behavior and attitude about life seriously as we discuss so often in these threads. But I wonder whether it's as simple as you make it sound, in the grand scheme of things, when you and others eloquently point out in various threads, the damage that racism has done to our psyche and how we struggle to deal with it. For that reason, I think it takes far more than Nancy Reagan's familiar slogan in reaction to the increased use of drugs in the 80s: "Just Say No!"

Much of what we face as Africans in America is not all of a sexual nature but oftentimes sex is used as a weapon and a release for us. Power, control and yes, that elusive dream called "love," can all be a part of the sexual experience. We have some angry men and women in our society.

The familiar and long traditional stereotype assigned to us about the Black "Mandingo" man and sexually prosmiscuous Black woman. Sex is shoved down our throats (pardon the analogy) every single day in this society. We are constantly bombarded by images of it. To some people who aren't as secure or well-adjusted as others, sex is like comfort food. They indulge in it whenever they can, not just for the fun of it, but to feel wanted, needed and maybe even "loved" if for just a brief moment. I think there's more going on than just sex for the sake of having sex. But again, you're right, if you're going to indulge, at least wear a condom and hopefully, avoid becoming another pitiful statistic in some AIDS report.

In the meantime, let those that are exhibiting healthy behavior and attitudes keep trying to educate others including ourselves about the harmful things we often do that can destroy us. We need to inspect the many ways that our minds are being manipulated to such a degree that we may be hurting ourselves and each other. We should do all that we can to learn the truth about us and not become victims of someone else's games.

Anyway, those are just a few of my thoughts on the topic.

Queenie :spinstar:

I believe the answers to the anxieties of life are always simple. It is humans who make it complex when they leave their base of common sense.
:hammer:

Joyce

[SIZE=2][CENTER]I believe the answers to the anxieties of life are always simple. It is humans who make it complex when they leave their base of [B]common sense.

I don't know if this applies to every life situation...but I believe it certainly applies to the reduction of HIV infection in our community.

NNQueen, as far as different kinds of relationships...

The only true committed relationship is monogamous...nothing less. Women should not settle for less, even with the statistics stacked against them, even if it means marrying outside the race.:love:

I don't know if this applies to every life situation...but I believe it certainly applies to the reduction of HIV infection in our community.

After giving what you said some thought I have to agree with you...100%


Joyce

i agree with brother pan when he says the condem should stay on until marriage...heroin is making a comeback nowdays and needle use is affecting more and more people...when it comes down to it, the woman can say yay or nay in terms of sexual activity without a condem...i will not preach abstinence because it is not feasible with all the sex and violence people watch on tv on a daily basis...no matter what the man is talking about, he should not be able to be raw like that...on the brothers side, we should not even have to be asked to wear a jim hat, that should already be known...i have nothing but despise for brothers that are on the dl...be true to yourself, first and foremost...i don't think that the percentages are any higher in our race then any other race dispite what the manipulating media might say...when it comes to sex, we have to make better choices...at the age of 32, i have not had any children out of wedlock for one reason only...use of a condom...sex talks should not be shunned in the household...children are growing up quick nowdays...and it is our responcibility to educate them so that they are equipped to make solid choices because unfortunately, AIDS is not going anyhere anytime soon...
one love
khasm

I feel abstinence is still the best thing, but unfortunately most will not heed it. I teach this to my kids, because to hand them rubbas is like telling them "I know you're gonna do this, so heah...take these." Since I don't condone sex outside of marriage and I have taught them this is wrong by God's standard, it would be hypocrital of me to turn around and give them rubbas. More and more teens have chosen this way (abstinence) and it's not fair to assume all of them are going to be sexuality active.

I believe kids and teens should be taught the way of abstinence and educated on the use of condoms.:teach:

Besides, in the heat of the moment, not many guys are gonna be tempted to put on a rubber. Their minds are not on plastic at that time. So if we can encourage them not to put their self in that position in the first place, then he won't have to worry about making a mistake in the heat of the moment.

Now as far as gays are concerned, the rubbas just ain working because they are very likely to crack under intense pressure, thus we have the DL hubbies taking the AIDS virus back to their unsuspecting wives...sad.

sista joyce...it's like this...we live in a tainted world, not everone in this world is on the up and up...actually, we have a lot of demons out there that prey on the innocent...i hear what you are telling your kids, i don't know how old they are, but i would rather my children be equiped with a bullet proof vest in this war zone we call america then nothing at all...because when it's all said and done....kids will be kids...but i commend you on teaching your children the way of the Lord...i hope that it proves fruitful...now, i'm no expert on anal sex, but i would rather the men that chose to do such things wore something to protect themselves...shoot, wear 2,3,4 rubbas if you have to...:lol:
one love
khasm

sista joyce...it's like this...we live in a tainted world, not everone in this world is on the up and up...actually, we have a lot of demons out there that prey on the innocent...i hear what you are telling your kids, i don't know how old they are, but i would rather my children be equiped with a bullet proof vest in this war zone we call america then nothing at all...because when it's all said and done....kids will be kids...but i commend you on teaching your children the way of the Lord...i hope that it proves fruitful...now, i'm no expert on anal sex, but i would rather the men that chose to do such things wore something to protect themselves...shoot, wear 2,3,4 rubbas if you have to...:lol:
one love
khasm

I understand exactly what you are saying. Unfortunately rubbas ain't bullet proof (note the many rubber babies we have in the world) and most people are not testing them anyway...in the heat of the moment.. Too many don't even bother to teach abstinence because they "assume" that people are gonna get caught in this addictive trap. The why the rubba teaching hasn't worked. You can't teach kids, the "Magic Johnson" concept and expect them not to get caught in the trap. Teach them to avoid the trap altogether and then educate them on the use of a condom. That way they will have been "taught" to do the right thing, but know what to do in case they decide to do the wrong thing...see what I mean? If given the right tools, children will absolutely amaze you most of the time. Some schools actually throw a child into heat by showing slides of people in sexual positions, then literally hand out rubbas afterwards. To me this is sick. I don't believe in setting a child up for failure but for sucess. Thus,

I believe kids and teens should be taught the way of abstinence and educated on the use of condoms. Give them two bullets and let them choose which one to use. At least you know that you prepared them the BEST way you knew how. One of the bullets definitely work while the other one is not as effective, it is better than nothing at all.

Now I'm not a man, but I can see possibly 2, MAYBE 3, but 4??? Now I ain no man, but golly, if he got that many on, that's gonna be a lot of work trying to end the show, (no sensation) but then maybe that's a good idea, maybe he'll get tired and go home and think about what he's doing to himself.

DELETED - SEE ME FOR INPUT

NNQueen, as far as different kinds of relationships...

The only true committed relationship is monogamous...nothing less. Women should not settle for less, even with the statistics stacked against them, even if it means marrying outside the race.:love:
I GUESS BROTHERS ARE THE ONLY ONES IN THE CLOSET HUH? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? TWO WORDS PEOPLE HIV TEST. IT'S SO SIMPLE PEOPLE. IF YOU MEET A BROTHER AND YOU TELL HIM THAT YOU WILL ONLY SLEEP WITH HIM IF HE'S TESTED, AND HE REFUSES. HE EITHER HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE OR HE'S JUST AN IDIOT WITH NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON. SO KICK THE FOOL TO THE CURB. IF HE GETS TESTED WITH NO PROBLEM, THEN THAT'S A GOOD SIGN.


THAT'S MY "BIG" OPINION

r sure these aids infections r coming from "brothers" only? wht about drug use prostitution?