I read somewhere recently that a great tragedy is that MOST Black men know AT LEAST ONE BLACK WOMAN in their lives who has been the victim of rape, incest, molestation, or some other form of sexual assault. Does race matter when it comes to rape?

Read for yourself and tell us what you think!

http://www.suntimes.com/output/mitchell/cst-nws-mitch16.html

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

If murder is the world's oldest crime, then rape is surely the world's second oldest crime. Does race matter when it comes to rape? The violation, shame, and trauma of such a disgraceful act is the same for any woman regardless of color. What is different is how these cases are brought to justice. Historically speaking white men have rarely been convicted of raping women or color, while black or hispanic mean get thrown under the jail for doing so (or being accused of doing so).

This article though touches on another issue though, not of forceful rape, but statutory rape. This is a somewhat different matter, and in this instance one's culture can play a major role. In many cultures it is normal for an older man to date younger women. Indeed in some places a 15 year old can be considered a woman. As stated in the article, statutory rape has to be reported, for the offending adult to be convicted. If he/she is not report the justice system appears to view this as "no harm, no foul". In Black & Hispanic houses many don't seem to mind thier girls dating & having children by older men (the recent uproar over R. Kelly not withstanding). I don't need to read about it, because I see it daily: 16-17 year old girls living with men in their 20s & 30s. Grown men picking up 14 & 15 year old girls in their cars. 25+ year old men taking high school girls to the Sr. & Jr. Proms. None of these relationships are secrets from their parents (usually just a mother). Is this truly a cultural issue, or is something more going on? I'd like to hear what the ladies of Destee think.

not to sound smart or anything, but why would race matter? A crime is a crime. Men and women are raped in jail. So rape is rape, no matter who the perpertrator is

If murder is the world's oldest crime, then rape is surely the world's second oldest crime. Does race matter when it comes to rape? The violation, shame, and trauma of such a disgraceful act is the same for any woman regardless of color. What is different is how these cases are brought to justice. Historically speaking white men have rarely been convicted of raping women or color, while black or hispanic mean get thrown under the jail for doing so (or being accused of doing so).

This article though touches on another issue though, not of forceful rape, but statutory rape. This is a somewhat different matter, and in this instance one's culture can play a major role. In many cultures it is normal for an older man to date younger women. Indeed in some places a 15 year old can be considered a woman. As stated in the article, statutory rape has to be reported, for the offending adult to be convicted. If he/she is not report the justice system appears to view this as "no harm, no foul". In Black & Hispanic houses many don't seem to mind thier girls dating & having children by older men (the recent uproar over R. Kelly not withstanding). I don't need to read about it, because I see it daily: 16-17 year old girls living with men in their 20s & 30s. Grown men picking up 14 & 15 year old girls in their cars. 25+ year old men taking high school girls to the Sr. & Jr. Proms. None of these relationships are secrets from their parents (usually just a mother). Is this truly a cultural issue, or is something more going on? I'd like to hear what the ladies of Destee think.


Panafrica you make some very good points about the complicency of adult condoning their under age daughters dating men in their 20's and 30's. I would imagine their argument would be, "what can I do as a parent? she'll just do it behind my back" To that I would say, that depends on the level of guidance given to the child and the overall character shown, and taught by parent.

I've noticed that this mostly occurs in homes which do not have fathers in them. I can't say for sure if these young ladies are looking for father figures in older men, but I'm sure this does play a role in this situation. However this only explains the mentality of the girl, not the mother who permits the relationship. Do these guys financially support the mothers (I know of some cases like this)? Do they just not care who their daughters date?

Brother Sekhemu, consider this. A white man rapes a Black woman. A Black man rapes a white woman. A Black man rapes a Black woman. Does race matter in how these acts are perceived and handled?

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

NNQueen,

I am under no illusion of the role miscegeny has played in this country or abroad with regard to the rights of black women. It is painfully clear to me that white men have historically had little to fear if they are accused and/or found guilty of raping a black, latina or native american women, and I should also include little girls and boys, in AmeriKKKA. However, I don't recall the question of how the issue of rape is handled regarding black women, in the beginning of the thread... though your point is very significant and abundantly valid. :jumping:

Peace

I understand what you are saying Panafrica. To understand the double standard and the role of race in the case of statutory rape (as opposed to forced rape) it may prove helpful to understand the purpose for the statory rape law. If it were about protecting the girl the man would be charged even if the parents did not accuse him. Like Sek said crime is crime. If you kill someone the law will come after you whether or not someone reports you. But statutory rape stems from the patriarchal notion that the father is the owner of his daughter. That's why part of the marriage ceremony is the father giving his daughter to the groom as if she is his property. The father does not want to give the groom "damaged property." For this reason in the eyes of the law statutory rape is not about what the man did to the girl but about what he did to the father's property. In the case of a black or hispanic girl where the father is absent or unwilling to protect his "property" the law, which is alrealdy prejudiced against him and does not see him as the owner of anything, sees no need to step in.

I understand what you are saying Panafrica. To understand the double standard and the role of race in the case of statutory rape (as opposed to forced rape) it may prove helpful to understand the purpose for the statory rape law. If it were about protecting the girl the man would be charged even if the parents did not accuse him. Like Sek said crime is crime. If you kill someone the law will come after you whether or not someone reports you. But statutory rape stems from the patriarchal notion that the father is the owner of his daughter. That's why part of the marriage ceremony is the father giving his daughter to the groom as if she is his property. The father does not want to give the groom "damaged property." For this reason in the eyes of the law statutory rape is not about what the man did to the girl but about what he did to the father's property. In the case of a black or hispanic girl where the father is absent or unwilling to protect his "property" the law, which is alrealdy prejudiced against him and does not see him as the owner of anything, sees no need to step in.


That was deep River, this is a bit of history I was not aware of. Thanks for posting it!

That was indeed deep River. An excellent analysis of the situation. This is further proof that men are needed in the black household, not just for practical purposes (a guy is less likely to try some "ish" if the father is involved), but for legal purposes as well.

I've noticed that this mostly occurs in homes which do not have fathers in them. I can't say for sure if these young ladies are looking for father figures in older men, but I'm sure this does play a role in this situation. However this only explains the mentality of the girl, not the mother who permits the relationship. Do these guys financially support the mothers (I know of some cases like this)? Do they just not care who their daughters date?


Several years ago I read some statistical info regarding this unfortunate phenomena. The researchers basically summed it up along socioeconomic lines. In most of the cases the parents (single mothers usually but not always) accepted, and in some instances, even encouraged such relationships for their young daughters for financial reasons. These older suitors oftentimes provided clothing , food, transportation, etc for the young ladies, and in an even more warped form of courtship, sometimes provided for the family as a whole. A lot of these men are actually family friends and aquaintences and have been around since the young women were very small girls.
I personally find this incredibley repugnant and think the parents and the older man should be :uzi:held criminally responsible; although, I do recognize that in some non-westernized cultures these practices are the norm.

Much Peace,
Akilah :sand:

In most of the cases the parents (single mothers usually but not always) accepted, and in some instances, even encouraged such relationships for their young daughters for financial reasons. These older suitors oftentimes provided clothing , food, transportation, etc for the young ladies, and in an even more warped form of courtship, sometimes provided for the family as a whole.

I think you hit the nail on the head here Akilah. My problem with these types of relationships is that are predatory in nature. I can see why a young lady would want to date an older man (privacy, more money, and it feeds into their belief that they're mature). However, I feel that the only reason an older man would want a teenager is because he has a mental advantage over her (they are easy to manipulate). These relationships also force young ladies to behave age inappriopriate. A man in his late 20s or 30s is looking to start a family, buy a house, build a career, etc. A teenage girl is ready for none of these things. However, when a young lady becomes involved with an older man she starts behaving in ways to please him, and this is often to her long term detriment.

I work in a school, which is why I said I see this on a daily basis. In one case I knew of a girl who was dating & living with a man in his 30s. The girl was raised by a single mother, and this guy did indeed provide for this family financially. However he also got this girl pregnant twice before the end of her senior year. Ultimately she had to drop out of school, to take care of the kids. The entire school knew her situation, teachers, counselors, and principals. But since the mother condoned the relationship, everyone had to turn a blind eye to it.

Even though this man was providing for the family financially (the mother of the girl was also pregnant, during her daughter's 2nd pregnacy). This guy stole her childhood, and ruined her future. This girl was in special education programs, so she will have difficulty passing the GED. In addition, she missed half of High School, because he was always getting her pregnant. She will not be able to support herself, and will be completely dependent on this guy (which is more than likely what he wants anyway). This is but one of many cases I know. I would say that the majority of teenage girls I know who had babies, got pregnant by men in their 20s & 30s.

Race matters in the perception of rape.

White women are perceived as pure as the driven snow; and how could an angel want such to happen to her innocence. Black women are perceived as wanting it. There is a whole spectrum of perceptions; Hispanice women are seen as wanting it, because they are seen as overly sexed... Asian women, you get a mixed bag...from virginal naivete to wanton vixen.... some women in this country, like for example, some middle-eastern women are seen as asexual, so....

White men are wanted so they don't have to rape....Black men, Hispanic men, middle-eastern men are all oversexed and rapist.... Asian men are seen as asexual or at the very least weak....

The facts spell themselves out before our eyes each day on t.v.

Now, we also have to realize that some of what happens is Us too. By that I mean. Black women, for so long, have protected Our own black men.... We keep mum on all the incest, rape that goes on with Our own... and because We want to differentiate Ourselves from them....sad thing is, We have become them.

Assimilation is not always a good thing.

Now, we also have to realize that some of what happens is Us too. By that I mean. Black women, for so long, have protected Our own black men.... We keep mum on all the incest, rape that goes on with Our own... and because We want to differentiate Ourselves from them....sad thing is, We have become them. Assimilation is not always a good thing.

Assimilation is not always a good thing, this is very true. However, I hope that sistas are not protecting their attackers out of a misguided sense of community. WEB Du Bois did indentify that the black community is so often persecuted by the American justice system, that they even protect their own their criminal element from this racist system whenever possible. This is a detriment because it always criminals free reign in our community. As Ricard Pryor once said, "Some Negroes belong in jail".

PA, but you know that We do do that. PA it is one of the only criticisms levied against Us that is true. Talk to some of your older relatives... I'm sure someone has a story whereby they can tell you, "He beat me up, but no, I didn't call the police, you know what they do to Our men..." or something like that. The same happens with the spectrum of crimes... "Yeah, he raped me [and my life is over because it was brutal and I can't stop all this dreaming] but I didn't want to see another Black man end up in Jail..."

We still do it. My nephew was with me in a Wal-Mart, about 2 years ago, and he picked up on a pack of Pokemon cards. A brother who works there saw him do it. Pulled him to the side and was talking to him, of course I went over, what was a grown man doing talking to a 10 year old. He told me what he had done. He told him, "I won't turn you in or anything, DO YOU KNOW WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO A GOOD LOOKING LITTLE BLACK BOY LIKE YOU? DO YOU KNOW HOW THIS LITTLE STUPID PACK OF CARDS COULD RUIN YOUR LIFE?"

PA it happens all around Us... and being a father yourself; and a husband; a brother; a son? Do you want this to happen to them. Do you want some fool hurting them; or doing some crime against you and yours and you and yours considering not doing anything about it; because you don't want to get another Black person ensnared with the law?

Sure, Our history explains Our reactions; but I denounce anyone who says something like, "Don't do that to another Brother or Sister..." And it has happened to me.

I think that it is one reason why We do sometimes let criminals hang around Us.

P.S. My nephew worked a month for a $4.00 pack of cards... then after he bought them, We made him return them to the returns desk, giving them the receipt, and explaining what he had done. And yes, and get mad if you want, but I beat the hell out of him, then he had my sister to deal with, then his daddy, and my other sister, and Our mother. He didn't look at Us for a long time.
I know that my example is a petty one; and is not on the same level as rape or worse; but that We do do it; on many levels...

There seems to be some kinda unwritten code that you just don't turn in your own. I almost wasn't born because of this. My father tells me about when his brother in law chased him down the street with a butcher knife. When the fuzz came my uncle Lou threw the knife down. They asked whose knife it was and my father was like "Knife? What knife? I don't know, man." They put both men in jail. My father wound up spending the night in jail because his sister felt her first responsibility was to her husband and she couldn't bail them both our. But this happened because my father would not kiss up to the white cops to protect him from another black man. The answer of course is not more black cops since they can sometimes be meaner than the white ones because they feel they have to prove themselves.

On the issue of rape there's something else at stake too. Some women would probably find it difficult to stand in front of white cops and explain the details of the rape. Since black men are already seen as superstuda and black women are already seen as ho's the image of the white men smirking either privately or in their faces probably makes some black women decide the law is not the way to go. It's not just about putting a brother in jail but the voyeurism of the police as the woman tells her story. "And then what did he do? Did you come?"

never have it mattered when small minded folks do such acts on another
we have men raping boys ladies raping young men it's been a none colored
feasta and surely is one of the biggest and oldest crime in america today
i saw where every 20 seconds someone is being raped by all men of race & color
a child is being raped by a nother youth // men // stripe of their virginity
no it don't make a different at all the rate just keep rising

Several years ago I read some statistical info regarding this unfortunate phenomena. The researchers basically summed it up along socioeconomic lines. In most of the cases the parents (single mothers usually but not always) accepted, and in some instances, even encouraged such relationships for their young daughters for financial reasons. These older suitors oftentimes provided clothing , food, transportation, etc for the young ladies, and in an even more warped form of courtship, sometimes provided for the family as a whole. A lot of these men are actually family friends and aquaintences and have been around since the young women were very small girls.
I personally find this incredibley repugnant and think the parents and the older man should be :uzi:held criminally responsible; although, I do recognize that in some non-westernized cultures these practices are the norm.

Much Peace,
Akilah :sand:

I've seen this trend when I was growing up. And for an older male to even THINK about getting with my young daughter would had been the DEATH of him.

One of my friends from elementary school days was "thrown" to this OLD black man. She was about 12 when everyone KNEW he was messing around with her. I don't think she liked the situation, but the family was dirt poor. Her mother was crippled with polio and this man took advantage of this young girl. He was mean to her, beating her up. They married and had children, but eventually, she got rid of him a few years ago.

She remarried a man who loved her and all the kids are grown and she's happy at last.

There have been many older men who made passes at me. I actually had to fight one of them for inappropriate touching.

And I would be behind bars today if an older man messed with my daughter. I disapprove of this so much and I'm overprotective of my young nieces who are under 18.

Times had been a little rough for me and my kids in the past, but aint no way I would allow some old fool to get in MY face or my daughter's face to provide financial assistance. God has always provided in hard times.

And many of us can relate to having relatives who were so darn nasty. It's not spoken about too much, but there was hints of one of my cousins being raped by her own dad (my uncle). And one of my sisters-in-law has an incestuous father and impregnated one of his daughters. Nothing was done about it.

Girls being raped by uncles, dads, cousins, grandfathers, etc. Sickening! And we have a lot of this in our history.

I've seen this trend when I was growing up. And for an older male to even THINK about getting with my young daughter would had been the DEATH of him.

I feel the same way. Also to provide a sad update to the situation I discribed before (about the girl dating a man in his 30s, who got her pregnant twice before she finished High School). I saw this young lady two weeks ago, while she was visiting the school with her two children.....she is pregnant again!!!! By looking at her, I would guess she is at least 8 months pregnant, if not 9 months. This will make it 3 children before she is 19...and the girl was beaming down the hall (while the other girls were talking about how stupid she was, out of her earshot). Truly, truly, sad. She should have come back to the school showing of the GED that she earned...that despite her setbacks, she enrolled in college....not that she was about to have another child. All because she is involved with a grown man who evidently can't stay off her long enough for her to better herself....and her mother approves of this! Unbelievable!

when black women report rapes, the perpetrator(rather they are black or white) is far less likely to be sentenced to jail and when they are sentenced to jail, they receive shorter prison sentences than someone who raped a white woman. In other words, if someone rapes a black woman, they more than likely receive a slap on the hand. Rapes concerning black women also receive little to no media attention.

another way in which race matters is that black women are far less likely to report rapes than other races, however they are far more likely to BE raped than other races(with the exclusion of native american women). This shows just how much the stereotype of the black jezebel affects how black women perceive themselves and how others perceive black women.

Strong points and well written Lktpolit!

Queenie :spinstar:

when black women report rapes, the perpetrator(rather they are black or white) is far less likely to be sentenced to jail and when they are sentenced to jail, they receive shorter prison sentences than someone who raped a white woman. Another way in which race matters is that black women are far less likely to report rapes than other races, however they are far more likely to BE raped than other races(with the exclusion of native american women). This shows just how much the stereotype of the black jezebel affects how black women perceive themselves and how others perceive black women.

Sadly this is true, and it is obvious why black women report rape less. Fear also plays a factor into this. Why report a man for rape, who will only do 3 years in prison, and likely come after you when he gets out. When need more black female judges...this is the only weapon that will be effective to fight this. I wonder where are white feminist on this issue?

Sadly this is true, and it is obvious why black women report rape less. Fear also plays a factor into this. Why report a man for rape, who will only do 3 years in prison, and likely come after you when he gets out. When need more black female judges...this is the only weapon that will be effective to fight this. I wonder where are white feminist on this issue?

Four feminist themes on social change as it relates to rape:

http://www.edb.utexas.edu/faculty/scheurich/proj5/themes.htm

Queenie :spinstar:

And many of us can relate to having relatives who were so darn nasty. It's not spoken about too much, but there was hints of one of my cousins being raped by her own dad (my uncle). And one of my sisters-in-law has an incestuous father and impregnated one of his daughters. Nothing was done about it.

Girls being raped by uncles, dads, cousins, grandfathers, etc. Sickening! And we have a lot of this in our history.

Sadly, this is all so true.

I believe that this ugliness is directly connected to a whole generationally ingrained mindset of powerlessness, and low self worth - a legacy of slavery. But that does not exscuse the perpetrators. They should rather castrate themselves than hurt the very ones they are supposed to protect and love.

Much Peace,
Akilah :spinstar:

DELETED - SEE ME FOR INPUT

Sadly, I know so many black women who've been raped and never ever bothered to call the police to report the incident.

I don't think race matters. But I wonder if black women choose not to report these incidences.

When I was young my father always said that if he ever found out someone laid their hands on me in an inappropriate manner...that he would find them and kill them long before any police were called. I used to pray that no one ever do anything to me...because I didn't want to lose my daddy - I used to wonder if I'd tell him.

To be objective...although it has been mentioned that many black women don't report their attackers out of a misguided sense of loyalty to the African American community. In truth many white women don't report when they've been raped either. In fact a co-worker's daughter was raped and she did not tell her mother until 2 years later (during a counseling session). Even after this young lady told her mother, neither one did anything to the boy. Again while there is an obvious difference in how rape is prosecuted by race...I don't see that much difference in the habits of the victims or attackers by race.

I've noticed that this mostly occurs in homes which do not have fathers in them. I can't say for sure if these young ladies are looking for father figures in older men, but I'm sure this does play a role in this situation. However this only explains the mentality of the girl, not the mother who permits the relationship. Do these guys financially support the mothers (I know of some cases like this)? Do they just not care who their daughters date?

I have a friend.. Her parents are 20 years apart in age.... And growing up, she felt that her father never showed her any real love. When we were 19.. she introduced me to this man she had been dating.. saying that it was some of the best sex she's ever had.. he was in his 60's!!!!!!!!!!! I started to explore why she was dating older men (and they were all at least 10 years older than her).. and she told me that "boys our age are stupid." She's married now.. to a man 10 years her senior. She openly admitted that she was marrying him because he promisd to take care of her.

To be objective...although it has been mentioned that many black women don't report their attackers out of a misguided sense of loyalty to the African American community. In truth many white women don't report when they've been raped either. In fact a co-worker's daughter was raped and she did not tell her mother until 2 years later (during a counseling session). Even after this young lady told her mother, neither one did anything to the boy. Again while there is an obvious difference in how rape is prosecuted by race...I don't see that much difference in the habits of the victims or attackers by race.


I don't think race matters in most rape cases. Especially since most victims KNOW their attackers.......

Rape is the most disrespectful thing I can think of. Race doesn't matter...NO ONE SHOULD GO THROUGH IT.....white/black/male/female, it's atrocious.