I'm writing a paper in support of gay/lesbian marriage and would like to ask what are your opinions on it and do you think it should be allowed; yes, no or don't know/care.

Thanks a bunch! :luvv:

-Roni

Personally, I think it is a bad idea. I live in Oregon, and the battle for Gay marriage is being waged in Mutlnomah County...

To me it is an affront to everything that I think is sensible. Gay people can love whomever they wish, but marriage?? Is the mother of three, the wife and lover of her husband the same as some guy who has sex with another guy?

Not to me... but I don't get to decide.. the County Commisioners get to decide all on there own...

Raymond

if God wanted woman and woman and man and man to have sex than they would have made us like that...nature won't allow it anyway...it's not suppose to be...now don't get me wrong...i don't hate homosexuals i just don't accept their lifestyles...thas jus my opinion...
:heart:
-story

Hello Sister AfroBoricuaRoni ... it often amazes me, how some of us ... Black Folk ... who have historically been treated less than a human, less than an animal, no rights, no voice, no anything ... so easily do to others what was/is done to us.

All adults should have the right to make personal choices for their own lives. Certainly one as personal as, who they marry. It is a decision that has absolutely nothing to do with me.

If there is some Spiritual consequence to pay, that is theirs to do. I have my own.

Yes ... let them marry if they want to marry.

:heart:

Deste

My great great grandfather was lynched for marrying a white woman so as an african american i can not deny anyones civil rights and as a lesbian that is all i am asking for civil rights no should be denied there civil rights for any reason

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."- declaration of independence

we is our happiness

To each his own. The Institution of Marriage is a fraud anyway. If Gays want to marry whooptie do. I think it just creates more money for wedding planners so at least we are creating more jobs.

Just my thoughts.

All have voiced some good points but my opinon of this matter is very simple.
I believe that when God created man and woman, that was how he wanted it to be....I mean read your Bible. The question of if gay and lesbian should marry, I personally think they should not because again, this is a bond God made for woman and man and by all means I fell that should ALWAYS remain be kept HOLY. I think a person has the right to chose who he or she wants to be with because they are the ones who have to answer for their actions on their day before God.
I am not trying to say that gay/lesbians should not have rights and should not be treated fairly because as a people I know we were denied rights and treated unjustly...still are denied and treated unjustly in many things. Those unjustices , were wrong. Thoses actions were done by people to other people as a form of opression. Taking rights away from men and women trying to be Men and Women which I think is totally different that men and men and women and women trying to live like woman and man....again, the order.
So yes gay/lesbians should have rights, I just feel not in marriage, again I just think things should be kept in the natural order.
This subject so hard to discuss without offending people one way or another.
I was asked for my opinion so here it is.

I think that Gays and Lesbians should have all the rights and protections of what we call marriage. Marriage in America is a farce and if I was a lesbian, I wouldn't want to call my union that. But then again, you all know I don't think like many here.

African-Americans have a problem with the issue stictly and mainly from a biblical standpoint. The arguments tying it to Our civil rights struggles are sound. To be brief, it is fact: We wanted inclusions in the defined rights and not to changed them. We still live in a country that was based upon judo-christian philosophy ( I know that We can dismantle that as hypocrisy); and within the realms of this philosophy that the laws come from, Marriage is between a man and a woman.

Anyway, why do We continue to let others come to Us in their struggles? How many gays and lesbians (whites and others) are on the front lines in Our continuing battles. To be honest, whether or not they get "Marriage" I don't care, and don't ask Us-- want it fight and whatever happens, happens.
African-American gays and lesbians need to come into the fold anyway, We need you and you need Us.

Good Luck and Peace.

Brother Manasia C and Sister Happy, your perspectives fall outside the "norm" and are necessary to our continuing discussion of issues that African Americans/Blacks address.

At what point will we begin to focus more on the things that are crucial to us as a people and less on who is sleeping with and loving whom? Why do some of our very own people want to ostracize and disenfranchise those among us who don't subscribe to what is proported as "traditional" views about marriage? Religious dogma is a powerful tool and is the root cause for some people thinking they are better than others and have rights and privileges that others shouldn't have.

In the end, when it's all said and done, we may find that we need each other more than we realize.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

I was just wondering why shouldn't we keep the unity of marriage the way it was meant to be???
Why should we forget all about DIVINE order to suit the lifestyles of this world???

I know my views came from a biblical perspective, but aren't the laws of the our creator the ones that will only stand in the end???

Yes we all need each other. I feel it is up to us to help uplift and help each other. I think we tend to let our fellow man make choices we know are not sound, but as long as it does not affect us directly in our own lifestyles and everyday functions we are fine with that which is so sad to me because anytime you have a chance to witness or to share wisdom with someone, I believe you should. I don't believe God placed us here to watch our fellow man go down the wrong path. I think although we can't be responsible for the decisions our fellow man makes. We can be there to support them, trying to guide them in the right direction, and not sitting back and letting them destroy themselves...(I'm not just talking gay/lesbian..but murderers and thieves, and adulterers..and so on) We have to stop just lQQking out for our own. Reconnect with man even if you may be laughed at, called a hypocrite, or even killed...I mean, the bible does say no greater man than this that lay down his life for his fellow man? I know many of our white/black/other brothers and sister are fighting on the front line for us every day. That's why I continue pray for their safety, as well as new leadership.
Really, I wish this whole topic was NOT an issue, but I do however believe it is very important because of it's nature. The media is doing unspeakable damage as well. I just don't want my children growing up in all the confusion, mislead by main stream media and the worlds' distorted views.

i do agree wit nita, if God intended gays and lesbians to have sex than they could and produce man..its just not ment to be, biblically and in nature period...god made man for woman and woman for man and for both of them to reflect His glory....thas the bottom line...
:heart:
-story

people!!

God gives everyone choices to do what they want. So "their rights" is not the center of focus here. Their is a male/female chemistry to the universe such as the Sun and Moon, the moon being sensitive light (woman), seeds (sperm),
soil (egg), and plant (life and life-bearing), etc....
lf it is incapable of giving life, the only capability homosexuality has is taking it away.
hey, l hope noone feels attacked, judged or bible-whipped. Usually, in such a pro-choice Sodom/Gomorrah reflectant such as America, gays/lesbians and their supporters usually respond as though they are :nono:
There is simply no discipline in our moral decisions b/c we have no boundaries- "whatever makes you happy- do it!!!" should be America's alma mater-
which is why we have Aids, single mothers, dead beat dads among our people and others as well.
"Our people were attacked, lynched and criticized for being black" is what peeps say, but we were BORN black (and beautiful). No one is born gay.
Being black was God's choice, being gay was yours.

i do agree wit nita, if God intended gays and lesbians to have sex than they could and produce man..its just not ment to be, biblically and in nature period...god made man for woman and woman for man and for both of them to reflect His glory....thas the bottom line...
:heart:
-story


Story, what l like about what you said, is that it's "out of the norm", devoid of all this erratic philosophy and emotions people use here to justify a perpendicular lifestyle to fit what God did not design for purpose or purposed by design.

"Norm" is defined strictly by majority opinion. Not everyone subscribes to the same religious philosophy nor practice the same religion. If the majority opinion shifts then "norm" will also shift. Someone who is considered "normal" today can easily find themselves "abnormal" tomorrow. Depends on majority opinion. It's easy to place blame on others for social ills when people think they are living "right" and others are living "wrong." Where is the proof? Remember, when you point a finger at others, three are always pointing back at you. :angel:

Queenie :spinstar:

Sister Queen and others on that last thread I meant to say; the arguments NOT tying it to Our struggles are sound.

I'm tired of Us letting Ourselves be pulled in the struggles of Others. I know to say that is a bit confusing b/c there are so many of Our Own who are gay and lesbian. All I am saying is I think that they should have the same rights and they can and should be able to have a legal partnership rights--- but I don't think that they should be able to change the definition of what marriage is as defined by the bible. I just don't think that that doctrine should be "messed" with.

Our gay and lesbian family are in a pickle of sorts. I think that for them it comes down to what is first: Being Black or Being Gay. Other than that they are welcomed in my home.

"Norm" is defined strictly by majority opinion. Not everyone subscribes to the same religious philosophy nor practice the same religion. If the majority opinion shifts then "norm" will also shift. Someone who is considered "normal" today can easily find themselves "abnormal" tomorrow. Depends on majority opinion. It's easy to place blame on others for social ills when people think they are living "right" and others are living "wrong." Where is the proof? Remember, when you point a finger at others, three are always pointing back at you. :angel:

Queenie :spinstar:

Let's not get "Norm" confused with Trend ok. I know that there are many different religions, but as long as you believe in God the Creator I think on this issue we should all be on one accord. Sad to see that is not the case. Still, I feel no one here was placing blame or pointing fingers at anyone. I feel it's my duty, to be truthful in my response because I do want to help make a change. As far as people NOT living right, again, that is their own personal choice. Again still, I fault the world and media for the like Jehiah said "just do it" mentality. This thread simply asked for opinions which we all are doing so. As for proof, all I can say is read your Bible as I will continue to do also, and go down on bending knee, and ask God to show you his purpose and intentions for mankind on this subject.

Sister Queen and others on that last thread I meant to say; the arguments NOT tying it to Our struggles are sound.

I'm tired of Us letting Ourselves be pulled in the struggles of Others. I know to say that is a bit confusing b/c there are so many of Our Own who are gay and lesbian. All I am saying is I think that they should have the same rights and they can and should be able to have a legal partnership rights--- but I don't think that they should be able to change the definition of what marriage is as defined by the bible. I just don't think that that doctrine should be "messed" with.

Our gay and lesbian family are in a pickle of sorts. I think that for them it comes down to what is first: Being Black or Being Gay. Other than that they are welcomed in my home.

I feel you,
I pose the question if law happens to make same sex marriage legal, knowing that God's law is what was meant to stand ....what justice are we really doing gay/lesbians??? We are really giving them a false sense of security which is the same as letting them live a lie.
This is a tuff subject, but great discussion :grouphug:

I'll add this to the debate, if gay marriage is made legal, then I believe polygamy should be legal also!

Let's not get "Norm" confused with Trend ok. I know that there are many different religions, but as long as you believe in God the Creator I think on this issue we should all be on one accord. Sad to see that is not the case. Still, I feel no one here was placing blame or pointing fingers at anyone. I feel it's my duty, to be truthful in my response because I do want to help make a change. As far as people NOT living right, again, that is their own personal choice. Again still, I fault the world and media for the like Jehiah said "just do it" mentality. This thread simply asked for opinions which we all are doing so. As for proof, all I can say is read your Bible as I will continue to do also, and go down on bending knee, and ask God to show you his purpose and intentions for mankind on this subject.

Sister Nita, I don't think I'm confusing "norm" with "trend" as I clearly know the difference. And you shouldn't take my opinions personally. My comments are no indictment against anyone here. I'm just expressing MY opinion as everyone else is. If I mention anyone's name in my posts, then my comments are directed at them.

Queenie :spinstar:

Now you know we go tooooo far back for me to take anything you say personally, I understand you're voicing your opinion. I was trying to make it clear that I am not mad at anyone here trying to do so.
What I meant by norm vs trend in my reply is Norm is a set standard, and I believe our set standard to be the Bible and not the majority opinion of this world. I say this because God's word will never change. Men on the other hand change so constantly that like you said, what is "norm" now may not be
"norm" tomorrow. That's why what the world perceives as "norm" is nothing but the trend for that moment..at least in my opinion.

very nice reply.

Please explain to me the number of homosexuals that were kidnapped from their homeland? The ones branded and bred like cattle? The ones enslaved? The ones subjected to Jim Crow Laws? The ones lynched because , like the color of their skin, they were definable as gay vs black? I have always found the civil rights arguement to be specious and hollow! It assumes that being gay is an act of birth and not a choice. It presumes that they are easily identifiable. Neither is true. It is an insult to King, Malcolm, Garvey, Douglass, Evers and all the other civil rights leaders that fought and died for the cause. Being gay, is a choice. There is an increasing body of scientific evidence that supports this. Just as there are consequences to extreme body piercing and tattooing, there are consequnces to being openly gay. Either the group is man enough to accept them or they should go back to being str8. Which is a definite viable option.
Every attempt to prove a gay genetic link has gone the way of 'Cold Fusion'. At what point at what time, do we admit this?

Now you know we go tooooo far back for me to take anything you say personally, I understand you're voicing your opinion. I was trying to make it clear that I am not mad at anyone here trying to do so.
What I meant by norm vs trend in my reply is Norm is a set standard, and I believe our set standard to be the Bible and not the majority opinion of this world. I say this because God's word will never change. Men on the other hand change so constantly that like you said, what is "norm" now may not be
"norm" tomorrow. That's why what the world perceives as "norm" is nothing but the trend for that moment..at least in my opinion.

i feel u on this sistah...
:heart:
-story

Right Panafrica

I mean just give everybody their rights for that matter...murderers, drug dealers,money launderers, rapist, theives, child molesters,...etc
I mean, if we are so concerned about everybody's rights, and freedom of choice....don't you think eventually these people are going to want their rights upheld as well???
Just saying.....smh



I'll add this to the debate, if gay marriage is made legal, then I believe polygamy should be legal also!

"Homosexuals need equal rights
Homophobic attitude hinders progress in gaining social equality"

"With the writing of the Constitution, America was established as the land of the free, where “all men are created equal under God.”

While being free hasn’t always been a common theme for all Americans, today we live in a multiethnic, multicultural society where most citizens enjoy equal rights. However, America is not the land of the free for some of its citizens.

Since it became an issue in the 1980s, equal rights for homosexuals has often times fallen on deaf ears in mainstream society.

Americans discriminate against homosexual couples so much that it draws comparisons to “separate but equal” and the struggles of African Americans in the early 20th century.

This issue begs one question: Why? Why don’t homosexuals have equal rights like the rest of Americans do?

The traditional response to this question is twofold. The largest arguments against gay rights are rooted in religion. While the United States grants freedom of religion under law, the majority of religious practices in America preach against homosexual unions. The Bible, in several passages, condemns those who engage in sexual practices with the same sex.

Americans with strong religious backgrounds see homosexuals as ungodly and as sinners of the worst kind. In my hometown of Topeka, Kansas, (the same city and state that supported "separate but equal" public education for Blacks and whites until Brown v. the Board of Education was successfully argued), we have heavy persecution of homosexuals by religious organizations. One church, under the direction of Rev. Fred Phelps, has gained Topeka national exposure for its aggressive picketing of churches and businesses that house homosexual members. Phelps has even picketed funerals of homosexuals, most notably in Wyoming, where a gay teenager was beat to death in 1998 for his sexual orientation.

Source:http://www.skiff.tcu.edu/SkiffWeb031601/equalrights.html
_____________________________________

For me the question isn't which group has been persecuted worse or more than another. I don't think situations of raping, killing, hating, lynching, dehumanizing and other cruelties of human behavior should be used as a basis to pit one group against another--all are hienous and despicable acts in my opinion and so what purpose does the comparison prove?

Despite what may be a growing body of scientific evidence that allegedly proves that homosexuality is a preference and not human orientation still leaves a great deal of room for scholarly and religious debates because the data can and will continue to be challenged on both sides of the argument. Similar to the creation vs. "big bang" or scientific theory of evolution debate.

Keme, in answer to your question, I can't provide the number of nor prove that homosexuals were kidnapped from their homeland, or were branded and bred like cattle, or enslaved, or were subjected to Jim Crow Laws, or were lynched because of the the color of their skin, like Africans were. But it would not surprise me if many of these things didn't happen to homosexuals because they were also African. Slavery in the heavily Christian south was about economics and slave owners needed breeders of free labor. Homosexuality was not profitable in that sense.

Queenie :spinstar:

Thank you for clearing that up for me because I thought you took what I wrote before personal and that wasn't my intent. I understand better now what you meant and your opinion, as always, is much appreciated. :)

Now, since Brother Pan has added another twist to this discussion by mentioning polygamy, I'd like to contribute the following information as a response, particularly in the event that some here might view polygamy in the same context as certain despicable acts against nature such as, rape, murder, molesting children, etc., which in my opinion, it is not and doesn't come close.

I'm not Muslim but I found the article at the link below to be quite interesting and one that might change many people's minds about this other form of "marriage."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrelations/womeninislam/polygamy.html

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Please explain to me the number of homosexuals that were kidnapped from their homeland? The ones branded and bred like cattle? The ones enslaved? The ones subjected to Jim Crow Laws? The ones lynched because , like the color of their skin, they were definable as gay vs black? I have always found the civil rights arguement to be specious and hollow! It assumes that being gay is an act of birth and not a choice. It presumes that they are easily identifiable. Neither is true. It is an insult to King, Malcolm, Garvey, Douglass, Evers and all the other civil rights leaders that fought and died for the cause.

I never said any of these things. I never suggested that homosexuals have experienced what Black Folk have. What i said was, it amazes me how some of my own people, who have experienced horrific levels of ugliness, would do the same to another. Of course not the same, but any thing that resembled that ugliness. To be a part of taking someone's God given rights from them. Many of these people you seek to disenfranchise, are our own Brothers, Nephews, Cousins, Sisters, Nieces, etc. How did we get here, to a place where we have become "so much," that we can look down on another, our own Sister and Brother?

We were talking in voice chat (http://destee.com/chat) last night about this thread / topic. I mentioned how they say, when a child is abused, it will grow up and abuse. Is this what happened to us? Have we been so mistreated that we don't even recognize when we are mistreating others?

I never mentioned any of the stuff you ranted about. Calm down.



Being gay, is a choice. There is an increasing body of scientific evidence that supports this. Just as there are consequences to extreme body piercing and tattooing, there are consequnces to being openly gay. Either the group is man enough to accept them or they should go back to being str8. Which is a definite viable option.
Every attempt to prove a gay genetic link has gone the way of 'Cold Fusion'. At what point at what time, do we admit this?

Who cares?!

Okay, so what, it's a choice. It's a choice like all other choices in life. Who you sleep with, be it man, woman or however they choose to describe themselves, is all a choice. You don't have to sleep with anyone at all, ever in life. That too could be your choice. So if you get the right to make these choices for yourself, why doesn't everyone else?

I already know the answer, it's 'cause you got issues.

:heart:

Destee

(NN)
I don't think situations of raping, killing, hating, lynching, dehumanizing and other cruelties of human behavior should be used as a basis to pit one group against another--all are hienous and despicable acts in my opinion and so what purpose does the comparison prove?

(Nita)
I'm not sure if this answer was pointed at me, but my intent on my comparison was NOT to pit one group against another sister, but to gain more insight and views on the issue at hand, human rights. If we are going to give homosexuals equal rights in marriage, I feel like in the future this will open up a whole new ground of other rights issues like polygomy.

(NN)
"With the writing of the Constitution, America was established as the land of the free, where “all men are created equal under God.”

(NITA)
Yes, all men were created equal. He gave us life and along with life he gave us the right to "chose"...
God brought us all in this world the same way, thru the mother's womb. When we die, we ALL will also be judged the same way, according to the choices we have made, and according to the law of the Lord.

(NN)
This issue begs one question: Why? Why don’t homosexuals have equal rights like the rest of Americans do?

(NITA)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not sayin that homosexual should have a miserable life. I think the focus went from marriage and ended up on rights. I just don't agree with making marriage legal in same sex situations. Marriage is a very Holy and Sacred union, I just feel it should ALWAYS be kept that way.


"Homosexuals need equal rights
Homophobic attitude hinders progress in gaining social equality"

"With the writing of the Constitution, America was established as the land of the free, where “all men are created equal under God.”

While being free hasn’t always been a common theme for all Americans, today we live in a multiethnic, multicultural society where most citizens enjoy equal rights. However, America is not the land of the free for some of its citizens.

Since it became an issue in the 1980s, equal rights for homosexuals has often times fallen on deaf ears in mainstream society.

Americans discriminate against homosexual couples so much that it draws comparisons to “separate but equal” and the struggles of African Americans in the early 20th century.

This issue begs one question: Why? Why don’t homosexuals have equal rights like the rest of Americans do?

The traditional response to this question is twofold. The largest arguments against gay rights are rooted in religion. While the United States grants freedom of religion under law, the majority of religious practices in America preach against homosexual unions. The Bible, in several passages, condemns those who engage in sexual practices with the same sex.

Americans with strong religious backgrounds see homosexuals as ungodly and as sinners of the worst kind. In my hometown of Topeka, Kansas, (the same city and state that supported "separate but equal" public education for Blacks and whites until Brown v. the Board of Education was successfully argued), we have heavy persecution of homosexuals by religious organizations. One church, under the direction of Rev. Fred Phelps, has gained Topeka national exposure for its aggressive picketing of churches and businesses that house homosexual members. Phelps has even picketed funerals of homosexuals, most notably in Wyoming, where a gay teenager was beat to death in 1998 for his sexual orientation.

Source:http://www.skiff.tcu.edu/SkiffWeb031601/equalrights.html
_____________________________________

For me the question isn't which group has been persecuted worse or more than another. I don't think situations of raping, killing, hating, lynching, dehumanizing and other cruelties of human behavior should be used as a basis to pit one group against another--all are hienous and despicable acts in my opinion and so what purpose does the comparison prove?

Despite what may be a growing body of scientific evidence that allegedly proves that homosexuality is a preference and not human orientation still leaves a great deal of room for scholarly and religious debates because the data can and will continue to be challenged on both sides of the argument. Similar to the creation vs. "big bang" or scientific theory of evolution debate.

Keme, in answer to your question, I can't provide the number of nor prove that homosexuals were kidnapped from their homeland, or were branded and bred like cattle, or enslaved, or were subjected to Jim Crow Laws, or were lynched because of the the color of their skin, like Africans were. But it would not surprise me if many of these things didn't happen to homosexuals because they were also African. Slavery in the heavily Christian south was about economics and slave owners needed breeders of free labor. Homosexuality was not profitable in that sense.

Queenie :spinstar:

This is really a HOT topic, and I must say, I am happy to see us voicing our thought in a respectful and loving way...
I can hardly keep up with yall in here because evryone has so much great input to add...I have to go, I'm suppose to be at work at 1:00..messin with yall...lolol...smh...lata

Thank you for asking for my opinion but maybe it's best for people to speak for themselves in answer to your question about whether they fear homosexuals or not. Personally, I'm not afraid of them but I can't speak for everyone else. Would you like to start by giving us your perspective?

Queenie :spinstar:

I hope I'm not being too personal, but I started to pose this question several times before. Are you a christian? What religion do you believe in?
I just want to gain some insight on the root of your beliefs....In no way am I tryin to offend, God knows it's all out of Love and seeking understanding.
Peace

Now, since Brother Pan has added another twist to this discussion by mentioning polygamy, I'd like to contribute the following information as a response, particularly in the event that some here might view polygamy in the same context as certain despicable acts against nature such as, rape, murder, molesting children, etc., which in my opinion, it is not and doesn't come close.

I don't view polygamy as a despicable act NN Queen. I view it as a respectable practice, which is perfectly logical in certain situations. However this is not seen as a respectful practice by European/American standards, and as a result is illegal. Indeed many laws in this country, and in Europe exist only because they uphold a certain "moral" standard. This moral standard is often based on the Bible or someone's interpretation of the Bible.

Laws against sodomy, and subsequently laws against homosexuality (including marriage), are also based on Biblical standards. Therefore if the call for homosexual marriage (an issue of little importance to me personally) is made in disregard of these old standards, or if these standards are to be modified to fit current times. Logic would then dictate that other practices which were deemed anti-Christian, like polygamy (which isn't anti-Christian, but has been mistakenly interpreted as such) has to be championed also. The same can be said for any other unmoral or un-Christian practice......look out!!! The flood gates are about to open!

I hope I'm not being too personal, but I started to pose this question several times before. Are you a christian? What religion do you believe in?
I just want to gain some insight on the root of your beliefs....In no way am I tryin to offend, God knows it's all out of Love and seeking understanding.
Peace

Sister Nita, are you at work already? :)

I'm not offended by your question of my beliefs Sister, but I am curious as to why it's important to know. Meaning no disrespect to you either but do I sound strange or odd to you somehow? Am I writing outside the "norm"?

If I gave you a name of a formal religion to attach me to, will that change your opinion of me? Will I suddenly become more easily recognizable taking on the same qualities of others who are placed in that same category? Does a religion define who I am or do my actions and treatment of others define my beliefs?

I know you are not trying to offend me Sister Nita and I know you mean no disrespect so I don't feel disrespected by your question in any way. What I believe in is people like you and people like me. Although we may be different in some ways, because we have these wonderful human spirits, I believe we are doing whatever we can to make a positive difference.

If all you want to do is know and understand me better sister, then read my words when I write because they will describe who I am better than any religion could.

Peace,
Queenie :heart: :spinstar:

I don't view polygamy as a despicable act NN Queen. I view it as a respectable practice, which is perfectly logical in certain situations. However this is not seen as a respectful practice by European/American standards, and as a result is illegal. Indeed many laws in this country, and in Europe exist only because they uphold a certain "moral" standard. This moral standard is often based on the Bible or someone's interpretation of the Bible.

Laws against sodomy, and subsequently laws against homosexuality (including marriage), are also based on Biblical standards. Therefore if the call for homosexual marriage (an issue of little importance to me personally) is made in disregard of these old standards, or if these standards are to be modified to fit current times. Logic would then dictate that other practices which were deemed anti-Christian, like polygamy (which isn't anti-Christian, but has been mistakenly interpreted as such) has to be championed also. The same can be said for any other unmoral or un-Christian practice......look out!!! The flood gates are about to open!

Brother Pan, I agree! The historical context in which you wrote is deep and challenging for many of us. Ahhhh, you speak of logic, suggesting that it be applied to one's religious beliefs. Interesting and most complex concept. Don't you think that logic and religious philosophies often find themselves on opposite ends of a continuum, impossible to meet? Either you turn your mind over to believe something that someone else wrote or you free your mind to think for itself. If you believe what someone else tells you without having anything to compare it to or a personal experience of your own, then how do you know it's your belief and not just someone else's that you've adopted as your own? Some people who practice certain religions believe that homosexuality is a sin. Do they also believe that polygamy is a sin or simply illegal?

Queenie :spinstar:

I think that in general religion is a set of rules & moral standards upon which people are expected to live their lives, and without rules there would be anarchy. Everyone has a moral base, whether it be centered on Christianity, Islam, Buddism,Yoruba, etc. If a person takes their values (their sense of right & wrong) from this moral base, then they should follow it. Picking & choosing which rules fit their particular lifestyle, is hypocritical.

If I'm not mistaken, most homosexuals in this country are white?Indeed White gays and lesbians. The issue of letting gays marry is basically a war concerning white privilage. If the larger issue is to provide gays with human and civil rights, I say let the rich and influential white gay males...like David Geffen lobby congress. Afterall they have the most gain.

lolol...yes, I had made it to work that fast...lolo...don't live too far from the gig.
No, no disrespect taken. I just wanted to know in what religion did you believe...are you a christian that's all. I don't think you odd at all sister, infact I look up to you alot for you intelligence. I just wanted to know that's all...have to go,time to go home :) :heart:

Sister Nita, are you at work already? :)

I'm not offended by your question of my beliefs Sister, but I am curious as to why it's important to know. Meaning no disrespect to you either but do I sound strange or odd to you somehow? Am I writing outside the "norm"?

If I gave you a name of a formal religion to attach me to, will that change your opinion of me? Will I suddenly become more easily recognizable taking on the same qualities of others who are placed in that same category? Does a religion define who I am or do my actions and treatment of others define my beliefs?

I know you are not trying to offend me Sister Nita and I know you mean no disrespect so I don't feel disrespected by your question in any way. What I believe in is people like you and people like me. Although we may be different in some ways, because we have these wonderful human spirits, I believe we are doing whatever we can to make a positive difference.

If all you want to do is know and understand me better sister, then read my words when I write because they will describe who I am better than any religion could.

Peace,
Queenie :heart: :spinstar:

In this country that supposedly believes in separation of Church and State, who marries whom should not even be a legal question. Moral question yes, legal question no.

My personal opinion is that it should be allowed. What is between two people is the business of God and themselves. It's not my place to judge whether or not their union is sanctioned by God.

gee wiz folk, des a lot of feedback! thanks! well, the paper was written and turned in. I got an A on it. yay me! but i had a chick try to turn my paper in as hers so that's the downfall...whole other story in itself.

but back to the discussion, there are two opposing sides in this disscussion, both of whom have been separated...which are Church and State.

and you can't engage in a debate without being educated on it and without examining both approaches.

thing is, our Constitution and the Bible are two different doctrines that now are not associated with one another. therefore the arguement that it's not in God's plan for two people of the same sex to be married is a poor defense in a court room, however for one's own personal opinion, it can be used just fine.

now, I believe in the Word just like the next person, in Leviticus 18:22, it tells us that for two people of the same sex to be together is an abomination.

BUT

not everyone is guaranteed to be Christian or even to believe in God. we have the freedom to believe in whoever/whatever we want. so we can't use the beliefs of any one religion against anyone, especially where it doesn't apply.

even though the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence were not made for us as minorities, we have to learn to make them work for us. turn it around on congress and fight your case. there are so many things that people get away with in this country that would be found wrong in God's eyes but our government allows it anyway. gay marriage is the least of our problems.

but in the case of same sex marriage, for anyone who has eyes to see and read for proof, the Declaration acknowledges that ALL people are created equal and have the right to "Life, Liberty and the Puruit of Happiness". Our own Constitution reserves the rights of these equal people, that they are not to be denied. If the government should try to destruct these rights, we as a people are ordered to "alter and abolish it" and create a new gorvernment. Given that homosexuals are as equal as heterosexuals, if a gay person wishes to marry another gay person then it is up to the government to allow it or be overthrown.

sadly we have people in office who go about being in charge by using their own opinions as to what goes. but if we were to be fair then we have to allow gay marriage.

like i said, i believe in the Word BUT i also believe in equality. either way the government contradicted itself and indirectly allowed same sex marriage anyway, all they have to do is stop fighting so hard against it.


-RONI

Very wise opinion, Roni and congratulations on the grade you received on your paper!!

Queenie :spinstar:

Thanks! Very much appreciated!