Now that he has retired, where do you rate Lennox Lewis among the great heavyweight champions of years past?

Not very high. I don't kow. For some reason I don't look at him as a great champ. I think that he only beat Tyson because Tyson has beat himself for so many years that he's no longer a threat. I think he should've given Klitchko a rematch before retiring. I think he knows he might have gotten beat. He should fight RoyJones or James Toney...though I think they both might be a little small to fight him. I really don't see him as anything more than a fighter that picks his matched very carefully, instead of facing all comers. A lot of the time he's been champ, the division has been so weak. It's just now becoming interesting so he bails. That's not a champ to me.

Lewis was a very good fighter but i rate him low on the list
he didn't beat Tyson , Tyson beat himself i agree he should fight
on the the top contenders like Roy Jones i think he left on time
he was a good fighter not a legacy great fighter but he is upon
the leaders ................

Kente417mojo, it is funny that you rate Lennox Lewis as the champion of a weak division, because that is exactly how I would rate Mike Tyson. Tyson was champion during a period of transition in the heavyweight division. The best fighters of the 80s: Michael Dokes, Frank Tate, Tim Witherspoon, Tony Tubbs, Pinklon Thomas, Trevor Berbick, Gerry Cooney, and Larry Holmes (the only great fighter of this bunch), were all towards the end of their careers. By 1985 Larry Holmes was fading so badly that he lost his title to Michael Spinks, who was a Light Heavyweight (although a great one)!! Tyson had fought literally no one on his 2 year rise as a heavywight contender. He won his 1st title at the end of 1986 against Trevor Berbick, a past his prime fighter who beat a 40 year old Ali in 1980!! He won his 2nd title again another old fighter, James Smith in 1987. In addition to these guys ages (both in their mid 30s), they were never that good to begin with. These two would have never been champ in the 70s, 90s, or today. The fact that they were ever "champ" shows how weak the Heavyweight division was in the mid-80s (most boxing experts rate this as the worst period in heavyweight history). Tyson did win his 3rd title against a decent young fighter, Tony Tucker (who knocked out James "Buster" Douglass for the title). For that victory I do give Tyson credit, because Tucker was somewhat of a threat, and he was also the best win of Tyson's career. Tyson's defenses were a list of dead bodies: Tyrell Biggs, on old Larry Holmes, Frank Bruno, Tony Tubbs, Carl William, and Michael Spinks (the best fighter Tyson defended against, but a man who hadn't fought in 2 years). Most of Tyson's opponents were too scared to give him a decent fight. The first fight who wasn't scared of Tyson, and who had some skills beat him (Buster Douglass). Evander Holyfield (the former Cruiserweight Champ), was the #1 contender during Tyson's reign, and Tyson avoided Holyfield like the plague!!. I know Tyson has some big fans, but he was the champ in a weak division. The best fighters of the 1990s: Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Ray Mercer, Michael Moorer, David Tua, all were just beginning their careers. I don't think Tyson could have ever beaten any of these fighters. If he came along at the same time as these guys (Tyson stared his career at 18, an age most fighters are still amatuers), I don't think he ever would have been champ. Even if he did become champ, he wouldn't have had a long reign. Tyson...my brothers was OVER-RATED.

In comparison Lennox Lewis developed very slowly as a fighter. However, by the time he become a contender he did have at least one good name on his record, Razor Ruddock, who he knocked out in 2 (Tyson needed 7, at that was a TKO). He did have some weak defenses in his 1st reign as champ: Tony Tucker, Frank Bruno (both of whom Tyson beat 5 years earlier). He lost his title against the best fighter he fought up to that date: Oliver Mccall (who was a beater fighter than people say, a man who knocked down Tyson in training). I will say one thing about this fight though. Lennox got up at 5 and the ref stopped the fight, most people who have seen this fight say that it was stopped early. Also unlike Tyson, Lennox came back and beat Mccall in a rematch. Tyson has never shown the ability to come back. Another think I have to say about Lennox was that he was perhaps the most avoided fighter in the 1990s. Riddick Bowe (who was knocked out by Lennox in the 88 Olympics) gave up his title rather than fight him. Tyson paid Lennox $4 million not to fight (that is on record brothers). During Lennox's 2nd reign he fought and beat the best in the division: Shannon Briggs, Andrew Golota, Henry Akinwande, Holyfield 2x, Michael Grant, David Tua, Hasim Rahman, and Klitschko. None of these guys were old, and all were threats. Lewis also beat Tyson in 2002!! I hear some say that Tyson was old, and tired when they fought. First of all Lewis is 1 year older than Tyson.....LOL! Also like I said, Tyson had the chance to fight him 6 years earlier, and he didn't want to do it.

I agree that currently the heavyweight divison is weak. But that is because Lewis & Holyfield both cleaned it out. The division was hot in the 1990s, when these guys reigned. I feel both Lennox Lexis and Evander Holyfield belong in the 10 of the greatest heavyweight champs of all time. However in a head to head comparison Lennox must be rated higher, become he was a more dominant champ. He was also more dominant, and fought better competition than Tyson (who most people put in their top heavyweight list). If Tyson belongs there then Lewis definately does. I don't know exactly where Lewis belongs on the list (top 5, or bottom 5), but if you look at his accomplishments: most defenses outside of Joe Louis, Larry Holmes, and Ali. He is definately in the top 10.

you made some great facts here and to look back i think
Tyson was a strong hard hitter as to Lewis a more faster
puncher , Ail , Holmes , Louis these was great fighters in
their era as was i say Tyson & Lewis and Holyfield was
not as hot too me , i think if Roy Jones would have came alone
Tyson , Lewis both would not beat this guy he is one smart
skilled fighter but you really made a point the Div. was weak
no true contenders like now what's really out there for Jones
not much but i have to say Lewis did beat some who was thought
to be a big name so from 1 - 10 i rate him still at a 7 he wasn't a
powerhouse .......thanks for the history because their was some
things i didn't know ....

True, I too agree. There were some very good points that I didn't know. Tyson also fought a lot of dead bodies as you put it. I think Tyson would have beat Lewis if he still had the heart and desire he once had, and I think that's the only reason Lewis fought him. I still have my same views on Lewis. I don't think Tyson made the mark that he could have made either. I think Evander Holyfield left a much more respectable mark than either, as one who faced everyone. Win or loss. If I'm not mistaken, Holyfield has beaten all of the top guys, because he took on all comers. Whether they were in their prime or not. I don't think Lewis did that. Plus Holyfield fought a lot of those guys more than once. If they beat him, he came back and got his revenge. I think that's what Lewis lacked. It seemed that he'd rather be just known as the champ than to actually represent like one. Maybe I'm mistaken. I'm not a boxing expert, but I do like the sport.

Hello Brothers Rich and Kente:

I am a boxing historian...LOL! So any questions you have, I'll be happy to answer. I am a little salty as I write this, because I wrote a very lengthy response to both of you, only to have it somehow erased. I don't have the energy to begin again, so I'll be brief this time. To address Rich's Roy Jones Jr. comment. Roy Jones is a better fighter than Lennox Lewis in a "pound for pound" sense. Roy is a more accomplished boxer (a champion in multiple divisions), but he could not beat Lennox because he is entirely too small.

To address Brother Kente. I also feel that Holyfield is a more accomplished boxer, because he also was a champion in multiple divisions (former Light Heavyweight, and Undisputed Cruiserweight Champ). However, Lennox Lewis was a better Heavyweight Champ. He was more consistent, and more dominate at heavyweight than Holyfield was. While both had losses, Holyfield was not able to avenge his, while Lewis did. Holyfield did avenge his 1st loss to Riddick Bowe in 1992 (who was scary good when they fought), but he was knocked out in their 3rd fight. He also avenged his decision loss to Michael Moorer by a knock out. Holyfield was never able to beat Lewis, Chris Byrd, or James Toney (an embarrasing loss to a former middleweight). He also struggled in 3 fights with John Ruiz (who he never should have had any trouble with). Holyfield gave all he had in his fights, while Lennox cruised on his nature talent, and physical superiority (he was usually bigger than most opponents). That difference made it seemed that Holyfield cared more, and it won him more fans.

Good lookin out on those facts. I guess I was wrong. I appreciate the information regarding Holyfield. That's true about Toney, I don't know how I forgot that one, I did see it. Must be my old age (27). Anyway, thanks for the boxing lesson. It was definately good speaking on it. I didn't know that Chris Byrd beat Holyfield. I want to see Chris Byrd fight Roy Jones, but I think it will be very defensive minded fight. Roy Jones doesn't throw a lot of punches and Byrd is a defensive fighter. Who would be the best fight in your opinions?

Roy Jones verses Chris Byrd would be an entertaining fight that I feel Roy could win. Chris Byrd is a masterful boxer. One who does not over power his opponent, but who outskills them. Byrd is also much faster than who normal opponents. Against Roy he would have problems, because Roy would be faster, and Roy is a boxer of equal (if not slightly better) skills. As the bigger man, Chris would have a strength advantage, but he is a light puncher, so this advantage is negated. The fight I'd really like to see is Roy Jones verses James Toney at heavyweight!!

that would be a good fight Roy Jones and James Toney
but i would have love to see Jones and Lewis battle it out
thanks i see you have Boxing down pat me i'm a football &
Basketball man but i watch Boxing a lot

tell me this whoi was the worse fighter to you who step in the ring?

Lenox was a good fighter....but I don't consider him great. Seriously, who did he really fight. By the time he fought Evander Holyfield, Evander was way past his prime. When he fought Tyson, Tyson was barely a shell of his former self. Lenox was just bigger than everyone else and there was no one to really compete with him. That was until the Vatlie Klistcko(I can't spell) became a boxer. Lenox got his ***** handed to him when they fought. The ref had to stop the fight because of a cut caused by a head butt. And instead of fighting again, he retired. He wanted to go out on top, but he went out looking like a chump.

SayWord, SayWord, SayWord, I think you need to watch that fight again brother. The "cut" in the Lewis-Klitschko fight was caused by a punch, not a headbutt (if it was, the fight would have gone to the scorecards). Stopping a fighter on cuts is part of boxing. In fact the great Muhammed Ali was losing in a fight to Henry Cooper in 1963. Cooper knocked Ali down (the 1st knockdown of his Career) in the 4th round, and Ali was only saved by a longer than usual rest between rounds. The very next round Ali cut Cooper over his eyes with a punch, and the fight was stopped. Ali won by TKO. Now Cooper, was "winning" the fight, but eventually lost because he was injured by a punch. Winning a fight, and having "won" are two different things. As it was for Ali, so is it for Lennox Lewis. I don't think Klitschko was "handling" Lewis, as many people say. Vitali had a fantastic 2nd round, against a 38 year old fighter, who hadn't fought in almost a year, and who had only 2 weeks to prepare. Despite all of that, Lennox came back cut Vitali horrifically in 3 places (one of the worst cuts I've seen in my 20 years of watching boxing). Lennox also was hurting Klitschko badly in the last 2 rounds. That is a "moot" point however, because the man won, bottom line. Also I have to correct you in the belief that Klitschko was the 1st fighter who Lewis fought that was taller than him. Michael Grant (who Lewis knocked out in 2) was 6'7". Henry Akinwande was 6'9". Lennox's "early" troubles against Klitschko had more to do with his age, lack of preparation, and inactivity, than it had to do with Klitschko's height.

To address Rich's question, I can't answer who is the worst fighter, because there have been too many. There are fighters who have had 50-100 fights, with only a couple of wins. Do you mean who were the worst fighters to fight for a title? Who were the worse champions? Who had the shortest title reigns? I need more info!

I think I fight should be stopped for a cut...espically the kind that Kiltscko had. But it was cause by a head butt. That's what the video tape shows. Kiltiscko was giving him the biz before Lennox did that. Now Lennox is scared to fight him again.

I'm not saying that the only reason why Lennox had trouble with Kiltsciko was because of his height. I'm saying it because he was a good fighter. Michael Grant isn't a good fighter. He has a soft chin and proably even softer punches for a heavy weight. Lennox was confronted with a man his size with similar skills. Kiltschko can fight. His punches bring power. You get hit by one of his...you're going to feel it.

The cut was caused by a punch, not a headbutt, there is really no debate on that. I have watched the fight numerous times (I have it in my boxing video collection). In addition I have seen the photos, read the newspaper/magazine articles, and watched the highlights. You are the only person who I've encountered that feels Vitali was headbutted. Now we can debate who was winning Lewis-Klitschko, and why Klitschko was doing so well. I personally feel that the fight was even (judges can be, and are often wrong in boxing). In addition I feel that Lennox was getting more stronger as the fight progress, while Vitali was starting to fade (he was holding on for dear life during the last minute of the 6th round). Besides that it is ridiculous to talk about score cards at the 6 round mark, in a 12 round fight. However, I like most people was surprised at how good Vitali Klitschko looked. The bottom line is that Klitschko is a good fighter, I never denied that. I think he will probably be the next heavyweight champion, but only because the Heavyweight division is currently very weak. The best young heavyweights: Malcolm Tann, Dominick Guinn, Juan Carlos Gomez, are a few years away from being contenders. Another heavyweight who has potential: Audley Harrison started his career too late (he's 32, and only has been pro for a couple of years). Vitali, while a good fighter is very beatable. Any one of the guys I mentioned can do the job if they continue to develop right.

yes who was the worse title holder as a fighter
and who was the worse contender entering a title bout ??

At heavyweight, one of the worst fighters I've seen in recent years is John Ruiz, this guy is BORING. Basically all he does is hold for 12 rounds, and complain to the referee whenever he gets hit. He won the tite against Holyfield in 2001. He "defended the title twice (a draw against Holyfield, and a DQ against Kirk Johnson), before losing to Roy Jones Jr. I believe he is the only boxing champ in history with multiple title defenses, without having an actual "win". This guy is so bad, I think I could take him, he is yet another example of how weak today's heavyweights are. There are a series of Heavyweight Champs who lost their titles during their 1st defense: John Tate, Michael Dokes, Greg Page, Tony Tubbs, Trevor Berbick, James Smith, Bruce Seldon, Frans Botha, I would rate these guys as among the worst champs in history. I won't rate them in order, however; because it is difficlt to tell who "stunk" more. :puke:

Punch vs Headbutt...doesn't really matter anymore. The fight is over. My point is, Vatlie wanted to fight Lennox again...Lennox backed away. he didn't want to see him in the ring again. Everyone is beatable. But thefighters you named, they have to develop. All they have right now is potential. A lot of people have potential. Michael Grant had potential and look at him now. Another reason I don't consider Lennox a "great" fighter is because like you said the heavy weight divison is really weak. Another reason is...just like John Ruiz, his fights are boring. Jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, hook, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab. See where I'm going with this. He's a good fighter, but he's far from great.