Hello Family,

If your spiritual / religious beliefs are built on words / text / revelations / etc., given to others, years before you were ever born ... what makes you so comfortable believing that all that has been passed on to you is truth?

Is it your "faith" in these people you never knew?

Is it your "faith" that God would not let you believe the wrong thing?

(The above are just examples, you're not obligated to cite them.)

How do you stand so firmly on things you did not witness?

:heart:

Destee

Allah's (G-d's) Peace be unto you,
You have posed a deep question that is commensurate with its subject matter.
As for me, i continue on this journey called life and reach many milestones. At the age of 30 some 27 years ago i came upon a guidepost that has directed me on a beautiful path of discovery. It has open up to me the real reality that there is only one Creator of everything that exists and that the only true and correct way of life or religion is surrender to the Will of that One Creator. Anything other that this is outside the safety zone and all that is within this is on the proper way no matter what name it is being called or in what language. By faith prayer and study i have come to accept the Qur'an as the final book of guidance to all of mankind and the only of the Holy Books that is yet in it complete and unchanged form. The messages in it are clear and obvious and also deeper, beneath the surface language. This Book and way are designed to take us up to the Day of Judgement. Most of the other Books and ways are fragmented remnants of what was sent by the Creator as guidance before mixed with human texts and even among those calling ourselves Muslim are varied misinterpretations, misunderstandings and misguidance. Faith is a beginning that is rewarded with Yaqeen or Certainty. Sincere and true hearts are led to the right way, there is no doubt about this. There is absolutely no compulsion to see or believe this and i count it a Mercy that i have been guided to this level of understanding. The Journey continues with every unfolding bit of time and i am deeply grateful for the guidance and looking forward to the blessings of the future.
Allah's Peace be upon you and the Mercy of Allah and the Blessings of Allah

Hello Family,

If your spiritual / religious beliefs are built on words / text / revelations / etc., given to others, years before you were ever born ... what makes you so comfortable believing that all that has been passed on to you is truth?

Is it your "faith" in these people you never knew?

Is it your "faith" that God would not let you believe the wrong thing?

(The above are just examples, you're not obligated to cite them.)

How do you stand so firmly on things you did not witness?

:heart:

Destee


Alafia Sista Destee,

Man, your question is so heavy I think it will make alot of people think. {Like me, for example} When I first left Christianity (well after I looked into NOI/Orthodox Islam and Rastafarism/Hebraicism), I told myself I would never follow man or any doctrine. I began a path of searching various traditions and enriched myself by such endeavors. I believe no one path contains the Truth exclusively. My background is cultural anthropology and so I view religion as a cultural element and a political statement. My traveling soul took me into the Tao Te Ching, Vedas, Kabbala, and many ancient texts/philosophies. I have a strong Native American heritage (Lenni Lenape, Choctaw, Cherokee and Comanche {Numi}) so I journeyed into the world of the shaman. My totem is the Raven, hence my alias Blackbird.

However, the spirits of Afrika claimed me. Then, due to a series of experiences - some which I shared in the Wicca thread, my soul turned to and found the enriching cultural and spiritual world of Vodou. My faith is due to the things I've experienced as many Afrikan belief systems are rooted in the experiential and just belief alone. Alot of the beliefs have been tried and proven to have value and relevancy. In this system, I have witnessed the reality of the spirits and ancestors. I studied Lukumi before Vodou and had attended misas so the reality of the existence of the ancestors was witnessed and proven. I have attended parties and bembes so the reality of the existence of the lwa and the orisa have been witnessed and proven. I understand everything else involved is just protocol and procedure, many of which are not static and rigid, but can be altered to suit the situations and the needs of the people. I have a story to tell, which many may choose not to believe or accept, but for me, it is as real as the sun that shines. My story is the spirit world.

Blackbird

This may become the deepest question of year for Destee.com

I'm going to sit back and read, contemplate and learn.

I think this is going to be a soul-opener.


Peace,


Sun Ship :)

Welcome to our community. I thought your post was an enlightening description of your spiritual journey. I am mesmerized by your testimony.

My journey has been a 'troubled' one and not very different than yours but not quite as extensive. I'm being pulled somewhere but I'm still not quite sure where I'm headed in my quest to find where I belong and at the present time, there are no labels to define where I am spiritually. I'm in complete agreement with Brother Sun Ship, I think I'm going to sit back, relax, read and learn.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Welcome to our community. I thought your post was an enlightening description of your spiritual journey. I am mesmerized by your testimony.

My journey has been a 'troubled' one and not very different than yours but not quite as extensive. I'm being pulled somewhere but I'm still not quite sure where I'm headed in my quest to find where I belong and at the present time, there are no labels to define where I am spiritually. I'm in complete agreement with Brother Sun Ship, I think I'm going to sit back, relax, read and learn.

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Alafia NNQueen,

Thanks for the welcome. I appreciate being here. Hoping I can share and learn as we all find our ways of returning to the Source. I understand the "labels" complex. Sometimes, we as wanderers will - really all of us as wanderers will craft our own path. Each individual is unique and come with a specific destiny. Your statement of "being pulled somewhere but I'm still not quite sure where" reminds me, in a different context, of astral travel. Much soul searching is involved. Eventhough, I practice Vodou, as someone who honors my ancestors, I have not put aside the gifts, insight and revelations my native parents' spiritual beliefs can give and teach me. They still come in my dreams and provide what I believe is protection. I love my Mamas and Papas. I wish you well and ancestral blessings on your journey towards your Center and Truth. Ire-O!!! Ase...

Blackbird

I promised myself that I was going to stay out of this...but I've been compelled, and I hope that I'm clear in what I'm about to lay down. Since I couldn't get in under my old nick, please know that this is Kenyatta.

I have no religion per say. My studies and spiritual journeys have taught me that religion is a controlling factor and a holding mechanism. Please allow me to digress. If I must have a religion as many believe one must...then mine is THE ANKH, which as some may know, means life. For me, LIFE is the highest religion there is. If you aren't practicing life, which is an upward and productive process allowing one harmony with the universe and oneself, then one is practicing death...which as we know, comes on many levels. Our ancient ancestors were scientist and philosophied and comptemplated the universe, self and their concept of a Creator beyond the level of any other peoples or present day religious systems.

It was their concepts and wisdom and writings that became a part of and inspired the foundation of all present day systems. This is not my opinion or my own speculation, but is what we call sheer fact. What many fail to see is that, the present religious systems only rose to the forefront when OURS OR THAT OF OUR ANCESTORS WERE PURPOSELY DESTROYED.

Adolf Hitler once said: If you tell a lie big enough, long enough and loud enough, you can convince the world it's the truth. I have found this to be the case with ALL ORGANIZED RELIGIONS. Some systems we have labeled as religions but they are not. There are systems in India and in China that are systems of SPIRITUAL DEVELOPEMENT or the GOD realization of ourselves that exist within ourselves that has been smothered by the mist of the physical world. Our people had a system like that also, and a highly developed one at that.

Please allow me to give a brief summary of issues that bothered me and speak of an evil that we have yet to correct. In the Bible everyone comes from Adam on down. No one has a last name, totem name or tribal name...except for the so called children of Israel which I'll deal with in a few. I could ask you...Abraham who? Moses who? Daniel who? Mary who? Some might say, Mary of Magdalene. Are they trying to tell me that in Magdalene she was the only one named Mary? Sorry, I couldn't buy that. Investigation and history has revealed that the reason that that there's no last names in the Bible is because there was a conspiracy and cover up that went on for the male domination of the woman. In other words, the lineage OR LINE OF DESCENT WAS ALWAYS KEPT THROUGH THE WOMAN AND NOT THE MAN. EVERY CHILD USUALLY KNOWS WHO THEIR MOTHER IS EVEN IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHO THEIR FATHER IS...BUT IN THE BIBLE THE MAN IS THE ONE.

HISTORY REVEALS THAT WE DIDN'T START CARRYING THE NAMES OF OUR FATHERS AS LAST NAMES UNTIL THE COMING OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD. PRIOR TO THE COMING OF THE ARAB PROPHET, history reveals that Arabia was ruled by Queens for as long as anyone could remember. In essence, history also reveals that what happened in Islam was that they simply took all the rights of the woman and REVERSED THEM IN FAVOR OF THE MAN.

Back to the writings of the so called children of Israel: All of them are forgeries and interpolated history. I could prove that Moses wrote no books, Joshua wrote no books...that Daniel wrote no books, the the four gospels didn't even exist for close to 200 to 300 years after the supposed death of the person we call Jesus. There's so much more I could say.

The point however is that I believe nothing. We were not born to believe but to KNOW and so I always continue my path of refinement and growth. In Islam they say according to the Qu'ran, that a prophet was sent unto all people in their own language to make the message clear or plain. Therefore the prophet of Islam came to the Arabs, Jesus says in the Bible that he was only sent to the children of Israel, Buddah went where he was supposed to go and so on. The question now becomes this: Since our people were here on earth long long before there was a Muhammad, a Jesus, a Moses or an Abraham...who were our prophets? Where are their writings and what were their names? Sounds to me like we as a people are missing a lot of information and history as well as ADVANCED SPIRITUAL CONCEPTS.

AND THIS IS WHY I'M A LITTLE UPSET THAT I CAN'T GET IN CHAT !! (smiles)

Upon request I will give a list of excellent material for what I've stated and more.

luv ya !
Keita Otiba Kenyatta

Kenyatta, why can't you get into chat??? Until you can, please continue to share your knowledge here at the forums and if you have more to convey about this topic, consider laying it out in chapters, citing your sources. If what you have to share could take us away from this particular topic, start others or if threads already exist where you can include your perspective, do that too. I, for one, am very interested in knowing more about your thoughts on this topic.

Peace :spinstar:

Kenyatta, why can't you get into chat??? Until you can, please continue to share your knowledge here at the forums and if you have more to convey about this topic, consider laying it out in chapters, citing your sources. If what you have to share could take us away from this particular topic, start others or if threads already exist where you can include your perspective, do that too. I, for one, am very interested in knowing more about your thoughts on this topic.

Peace :spinstar:


Belief Is Ignorance . Belief Is To Ignore The Facts Intentionally Or Ignorantly , If One Has To Believe , It Means He Or She Does Not Know . And If One Does Not Know , That Is Ignorance . Hence Belief Is Ignorance And Religious Belief WithOut The Facts Is Ignorance , OverStand

I Mean Not Disrespect Just Shareing My Though's

Destee,

With me it was faith in His words. After having read them, I had to make a decision on whether or not I would receive them as truth. I decided that I would. In accepting the bible as truth, Jesus begin to reveal Himself to me. He became more than mere words on a page...He became my life. This is why my faith is solid. Blessed are those who have not seen...yet believe. I believe because though I have not seen Him, I have experience Him. This establishes my faith in Him whom I have not seen. This is my hope and I look forward to seeing Him...face to face.

What about you Destee? What are your thoughts on Jesus Christ?

Joyce

Greetings Sisters and Brothers:
Thank you Destee for posting this topic. It comes in a very timely fashion. This is along a line of questions that I have lately come to contemplate steadily on a daily basis. Where to start..?. As an original people, i(we) have come to question the basis...of religion. Not necessarily religion as defined by "Webster's" diction, but religion as a way of life and the building/strenghtening of our relationship with our Creator. The question

Originally Posted by Destee:

If your spiritual / religious beliefs are built on words / text / revelations / etc., given to others, years before you were ever born ... what makes you so comfortable believing that all that has been passed on to you is truth?

Is it your "faith" in these people you never knew?

..is a very good one. It is hard to read religious texts that have been passed down to us by the same people that enslaved us, raped us of our history and religious rites, and murdered our nations and believe that all of the words and ways therein are righteous, complete, and true. Sad. OUR ancestors were smitten of the ability to honor our belief systems and pass these values to their children. The impact that slavery has had on us has pulled us so far apart from each other that we are quicker to fight over disagreeances than to unite for life while trapped in a system of death. Our people are very spiritual, i believe, in essence, and i believe that this spurs "belief" in the Creator, and we connect to this at any plane that it is presented.. To take the wisdom from words whether tainted or pure will surely strenghten our relationship with the Creator. Still truth is a foremost thing. We must be true to our beliefs, true to ourselves, and true to the Creator. We each are unique and have a path which we must walk to reach higher peaks in our spirituality and being.

i base my faith in these truths. It's true that i have read pages of the Bible and Qu'ran and much of it i did not understand. My "ovastanding" of the meaning of the words to me is powerful. i feel pressure coming from "Christianity" to meet all criteria sited by the established popes and doctrines. Why? i believe and practice many of the principles that preachers and reverends philosophize upon. I don't say this to at all demean any religion, just to express how it feels to me. When our ancestors (original people) were on the physical plane did they have books and words passed to them to link them with our Creator. No, i highly doubt this. So how did they develop their belief? Where do we deveolop ours?

My journey for understanding is infinite. I have been involved and strongly stood for "religious groups". My young journey has pushed me closer and closer to the aspects of spirituality and a plane that generally is considered not to exist. The things that i have come in contact with, one my consider fiction, horror, sci-fi. But the truth is that i was there, as were my ancestors before me.

Sister Blackbird -peace/war- i appreciate the facts that you shared with us. As with many "African-American" peoples, i share the Native heritage of the of the original people of the land called "america". As it goes among the children of the slaves, much of my immediate history has passed from me. The little that i was told and can remember leaves me searching in all areas. The journey which you have described you have embarked upon is very similar to that in which i search. If you could, i'd like to connect with you..maybe we can aid each other in our quest...maybe you could share with me much that you have to teach, and i seek to learn and in return i can share with you my experiences. Email me?

(Sister?) Keita- thank you for sharing your wisdom. i would certainly appreciate a list of the materials that you have described, but without your insight i believe that study for me might be irrelevant. Please continue to share with us.

Peace famlee
One love,
/antar

Peace and Blessings Family ... thought we'd revisit this discussion.

Please share your thoughts regarding the question.

:heart:

Destee

Hello Family,

If your spiritual / religious beliefs are built on words / text / revelations / etc., given to others, years before you were ever born ... what makes you so comfortable believing that all that has been passed on to you is truth?

Is it your "faith" in these people you never knew?

Is it your "faith" that God would not let you believe the wrong thing?

(The above are just examples, you're not obligated to cite them.)

How do you stand so firmly on things you did not witness?

:heart:

Destee
I originally was a follower and believer in Jesus and went on the basic knowledge of the standard Jesus worshiper, you know; only being familiar with quotes and beautiful sayings and believed that was the way.

With my continued interest in science, computers and logic my mind has always been drawn to the unique and the contemplation of the workings and order of things. I was the type of child that would disassemble my new boom-box moms had just bought me so that I could see how it worked. I wanted to know if there was little people inside that box that started talking and singing when they seen the little light come on?

This type of curiosity on the working of things has always defined my personality and I have found that it also makes me extremely observant of people.

The first book that I read that made me look at GOD more was a book by Michel Drosnin, “The Bible Codes”. Well, needless to say this book put a scientific spin on GOD in dealing with the future. In reading the book I began to realize I did not know Jack about GOD, the Hebrew language nor had I read the Bible in its entirety, so I set out to change that. My first reading of the entire Old Testament changed my entire perception of GOD and I have yet to put the Bible down. As I played with several Bible Code programs my lack of knowledge of the Hebrew language kinda made me loose interest but I continued to play with them. But what I truly started looking at and being pulled into is what GOD was saying in plain English. I was like screw the Hebrew text; we haven’t even begun to tackle the English text.

As I studied more and more I began to see the Bible as a whole filled with contradictions. Then I started interviewing priest and minister etc… Most of the time I got brushed off or was told, “it is best to believe in something”. As I read more and more I began seeing the Bible as created by Africans. I do not know what triggered this in me but I suspect it is because the Old Testament is extremely and profoundly African and tribal based, spears, chanting, dancing, gods, tribes, lions, spiritual possession, tints, etc… With all of this I started looking at the Old Testament as African history then I started focusing more on GOD and HIS Specific Word.

Once I did this I began looking at Egypt because Egypt is the only point in time as to where one nation ruled the area of land as described as the Promise Land, I haven’t taken my eyes of Egypt since. And of curse all of this led me to Akhenaten and more and more books.

Now my concept of GOD as Supreme Being causes me to stay focused on only the Specific Words of the Supreme Being. I now see as GOD any Words that are Specifically Spoken as The Supreme Being Speaking them and this applies to any and all religious systems. If GOD expresses in HIS own Words that HE is and has been the Supreme Being forever then that means you are looking at the Words of the Supreme Being that is known by many names. Thus any and every name in history that has been attached to the Supreme Being is the same Supreme Being found in the Old Testament, writings of Egypt, writings of China, writings of Africa, etc…. This concept makes GOD universal. Even if we were to go to another planet and find a weird name of GOD if that name is attached to describing the Supreme Being then it is the same Supreme Being as found on earth.

The confusion comes in when we try to attribute doctrine as the Supreme Being Speaking those Words when in reality IT did not. Any median that confesses being created by the Supreme Being can not be healed accountable as being the Words of the Supreme Being unless the median confesses “Thus saith the Supreme Being”, or “The Supreme Being said unto me” or expresses in some way that the Words at one point in time was actually Spoken by the Supreme Being.

Thus far my new concept of the Supreme Being has not failed me. This concept makes a whole lot of people angry because it cuts away words and doctrines that are not Specifically Spoken by the Supreme Being witch causes the lesser gods and words of ancient priests to pine away.

Hotep

To believe something does not mean that what one believes in has to be True. Example: Santa Claus, Easter Bunny etc. At one time as a child one may have and in most cases did believe in a Big-White-Santa-Lie introduced by your parents. At one time you also were introduced to another out right "Lie"...the Easter Bunny by your parents. How meny more "Lies" were you introduced and indoctrinated in as a Child that you still "Believe In"??? You Believe in things with out any "Proof" you don't need any proof you just believe and have "Faith"...but it is a "Lie" just the same. You have Faith and Believe in a "Lie" that is 'Not' True! And if you remember when some one who you thought was a bad person came to you and told you that Ain't no Santa Clous...Ain't no Easter Bunny..."You Got Mad and felt Hert"...because after all my Grand Parents and parents told me that it was true...so did every one else except the bad person who told me the "Truth" for the "First" time.
Why do you Believe what you Believe?? When you can't know that any thing you think you know is true because it is "All" hear say and you know deep down inside that these things don't happen, you'v never seen them happen but you wish, pray, dream that they will some how happen to you and yours. Hence: ((((Illusions))))...things that are made up or imagined to be real but they are not...but you still believe and have faith because you were told to by every thing that you know including your parents and grand parents, aunts and uncles, cousin, friends etc. The "Bottom Line" is "YOU ARE NOT THINKING"...you are a follower and a Slave to False Doctrins that you are In-Doctrinated into from your Early Child-Hood Mis-Development. You are "Not" Thinking!!
When the Chick Breaks out of its Shell of Ignorance...It can Never Go Back*
Read, Study, Reserch, Meditate, Learn and Know Thy Self...African!

Ase`

I believe in God whom is holy.....
The Alpha and Omega ...The great i am...

wich says it all...



In the father the son and the holy spirrit ...


the laws he gave us ....
his word in the book of life...




I believe.....
because has given that to me...

and i feel it in ...


MY heart.....






Loveauroraflower:heart:

i'm very glad this thread was brought back up just right after i joined the family...

i was raised going to a christian church, but i never really believed. i lost interest in it around 15 or 16 yrs of age and i stopped going altogether, except on christmas, which was realy out of tradition that anything else.
Then one day in the library i happened to see a book called the chariots of the gods.
its main thesis was that the gods and angels talked about in the bible 'coming in the clouds' were actually extraterestrial beings. this immediately peaked my interest.

since that time i have gone through a coupple hundred books at least (i lost count long ago), trying to discover the 'real' truth. i heard many people along the way also, but i never joined any religious group since my church days. i convinced myself along the way that i would never follow any one. i was determined that if the truth is out there, i'll discover it myself. Well, all this changed 5 years ago after i met an african brother at whose 'feet i sat' for 5 years. what he told me was so simple yet it was the most profound thing i had ever heard.
im still learning. i found out the more you learn, the more you find out how little you know.

Peace and Blessings Family ... :love:

:heart:

Destee

Peace and Blessings Family ... :love:

:heart:

Destee


YEAH, WE NEED THEM BOTH....SOME "PEACE AND BLESSINGS"!!

YEAH, WE NEED THEM BOTH....SOME "PEACE AND BLESSINGS"!!

Yes Yes Yes We Do! I don't believe we can ever have too much of either.

Love You Brother Keita!

:heart:

Destee