One of the biggest aspirations of the PanAfrican movement is to form a United States of Africa. Similar to the recently formed European Union, a United States of Africa would link the economies, industries, militaries, and various resources of several African nations into one powerful entity. Ideally this Nation would function like the US with One President and a cabinet, with each individual country acting as member states. This idea grew out of the failure of OAU (Organization of African Unity) in the 1960s. However it gained more attention in the late 1990s when Libya's President Moammar Khadafy suggested the concept to Nigeria & South Africa (after his failed attempt to form an Arab League).

A chief concern for the proposed United States of Africa (and the main reason the idea has not yet come to fruition) is how to merge the incredibly diverse peoples and culture of Africa. Besides tribalism and border issues, a major bar to the success of such a venture would be language issues. One of the biggest factors which led to the "cultural" success of the United States was the common language factor. Khadafy realizing this, would solve this problem by having the official language of the proposed African Union be Arabic. However this would be difficult as most countries in Africa speak either English or French. It also brings up another issue, that of leadership.

I believe that the idea of a United States of Africa is a great one. One neccessary for the prosperity of Africans throughout the Diaspora (making an effort to create a Black Super Powever, instead of making Western European countries great). However as with many issues involving Africa and black people in general, the leadership must be questioned. Khadafy loyalty appears to lie more with his Arabs ancestors and Libya rather than Africa. That he proposed (actually championed) the United States of Africa after his efforts to form an Arab League failed can't be overlooked. Also his insistence on making the offical language of this proposed union Arabics is a nod to the Middle East. Not to mention that he would like the United States of Africa to work closely with the Middle East.

Africa is a continent that is rich in natural resources, which includes Oil (Nigeria, Congo, and Equatorial Guinea). Since oil is the biggest resource of the Arab nations, it is not economically advantageous for Africa to form a connection. Furthermore, the terrorist links of the Middle East would leave the proposed United States of Africa open to attack before it had a chance to develop. Khadafy himself was considered to be the world's biggest terrorist in the 1980's, and he recently admitted that he was attempting to build a nuclear bomb (although he has publicly stopped building Weapons of Mass Destruction). All this would make an African/Arab partnership dangerous for Africa.

My question to my fellow PanAfricanist is whether or not you think a United States of Africa is neccessary? If so, do you think it is possible? What language should be chosen? What type of Economic System should be established? Lastly who do you think could lead it? Lets Discuss!

Although it's one that I must study before I can dive into it, it stimulates some interesting ways to think about a possible future for Africa and Black people. This is an interesting concept and one, that on the surface, appears to be beneficial to Africa. Natural resources and wealth potential aside, given such diversity in culture and political issues that create divisiveness among the African nations, what would be the major advantages and disadvantages to such a notion?

Can all African nations function independently of the parasites that are constantly present and sucking their resources dry? How does a country detach itself from those infested bloodsucking parasites and remain able to sustain itself under a United leadership? Are we resourceful enough to squash those and fight against the stronghold of the oppressors? Can we take notes from the United Europeans to strategize how this might be possible and beneficial for Africa? Different languages are spoken among Europeans except when it comes to their economy and system of government. Money and politics. Free enterprise and democracy and religions that give the people permission to gain wealth and prosper at any cost.

What's the greatest benefit and whose to gain under a United States of Africa?

Looking forward to the dialogue.

One of the biggest aspirations of the PanAfrican movement is to form a United States of Africa. Similar to the recently formed European Union, a United States of Africa would link the economies, industries, militaries, and various resources of several African nations into one powerful entity. Ideally this Nation would function like the US with One President and a cabinet, with each individual country acting as member states. This idea grew out of the failure of OAU (Organization of African Unity) in the 1960s. However it gained more attention in the late 1990s when Libya's President Moammar Khadafy suggested the concept to Nigeria & South Africa (after his failed attempt to form an Arab League).

A chief concern for the proposed United States of Africa (and the main reason the idea has not yet come to fruition) is how to merge the incredibly diverse peoples and culture of Africa. Besides tribalism and border issues, a major bar to the success of such a venture would be language issues. One of the biggest factors which led to the "cultural" success of the United States was the common language factor. Khadafy realizing this, would solve this problem by having the official language of the proposed African Union be Arabic. However this would be difficult as most countries in Africa speak either English or French. It also brings up another issue, that of leadership.

I believe that the idea of a United States of Africa is a great one. One neccessary for the prosperity of Africans throughout the Diaspora (making an effort to create a Black Super Powever, instead of making Western European countries great). However as with many issues involving Africa and black people in general, the leadership must be questioned. Khadafy loyalty appears to lie more with his Arabs ancestors and Libya rather than Africa. That he proposed (actually championed) the United States of Africa after his efforts to form an Arab League failed can't be overlooked. Also his insistence on making the offical language of this proposed union Arabics is a nod to the Middle East. Not to mention that he would like the United States of Africa to work closely with the Middle East.

Africa is a continent that is rich in natural resources, which includes Oil (Nigeria, Congo, and Equatorial Guinea). Since oil is the biggest resource of the Arab nations, it is not economically advantageous for Africa to form a connection. Furthermore, the terrorist links of the Middle East would leave the proposed United States of Africa open to attack before it had a chance to develop. Khadafy himself was considered to be the world's biggest terrorist in the 1980's, and he recently admitted that he was attempting to build a nuclear bomb (although he has publicly stopped building Weapons of Mass Destruction). All this would make an African/Arab partnership dangerous for Africa.

My question to my fellow PanAfricanist is whether or not you think a United States of Africa is neccessary? If so, do you think it is possible? What language should be chosen? What type of Economic System should be established? Lastly who do you think could lead it? Lets Discuss!


You know this is not the first time Arabs have tried to use Black Africans to further their own agender. During the Roman occupation of North Africa and Arabia, Arabs influenced Blacks to side with them in fighting the oppressive menace of Rome. Many Blacks provided the Arabs with armies used to challenge Rome's strangle hold on both groups. However, as Rome began to decline (along with the advent of the rise of Islam) the Arabs turned on the Africans and began to enslave them.

Now doesn't this scenario seem strangely familiar with what's happening today? Both the Arabs and Black Africans are both being oppressed by Western-European society and the Arabs wish for Africans to help them get rid of the mutual oppressor. History has already shown that Arabs only wish to use Africans to get to the top so that they can turn around and enslave Blacks once again (despite the fact that Arabs are still responsible for enslaving Black Africans today).

You know this is not the first time Arabs have tried to use Black Africans to further their own agender. During the Roman occupation of North Africa and Arabia, Arabs influenced Blacks to side with them in fighting the oppressive menace of Rome. Many Blacks provided the Arabs with armies used to challenge Rome's strangle hold on both groups. However, as Rome began to decline (along with the advent of the rise of Islam) the Arabs turned on the Africans and began to enslave them.

Now doesn't this scenario seem strangely familiar with what's happening today? Both the Arabs and Black Africans are both being oppressed by Western-European society and the Arabs wish for Africans to help them get rid of the mutual oppressor. History has already shown that Arabs only wish to use Africans to get to the top so that they can turn around and enslave Blacks once again (despite the fact that Arabs are still responsible for enslaving Black Africans today).

Agreed Chukwuemeka! Arabs are the original enslavers of Africa. The Arabic controlled Trans-Saharan slave trade pre-dated the Trans-Atlantic by some 1000 years. Although less well known (at least to non-historians), this slave trade was no less brutual. Arabs made Eunichs out of male Africans, used female Africans as sex slaves, and surplanted native African religion & culture with their own (regardless of what my brothers in the NOI say, Islams is no more our native religion than Christianity is). According with numerous reports Arabs are even continuing to enslave Africans in the Sudan till this day, and they are causing much turmoil with Jihads. An African/Arabic marriage would be a treacherous one to say the lest.

Sadly I believe that the sole reason that Africans are considering (defering) a merger with Arabs is because there are currently no African leaders with political and economic influence on a global scale: South Africa's Mbeki is weak (caters to white folk too much), Senegal's Wade is a puppet of the French, Equatorial Guinea's Nguema is a dictator that would make Saddam jealous, Nigeria's Obasanjo can't control the turmoil in his own country, etc. Merging with Arabic nations (including Africa's North: Morroco, Egypt, Libya, Tunsia, Algeria) would give a proposed United States of Africa more global respect, but again I think the risk outweighs the benefits.

If this idea is to work......the participating states would have to be very carefully selected. In in many cases, current administrations would have to be removed. One of Africa's biggest administrative problems is that it suffers from old leadership. Many of Africa's leaders were raised during colonization, and they have ruled for 30 years or more (Zimbabwe's Mugabe is an example of this). New blood needs to be brought in.........literally. Africa is badly in need of new ideas, and new leadership! With the right people behind it I believe a United States of Africa could become reality.

The problem with bringing "new blood" into African leadership is that the new leadership often turns out to be just as bad or worse than their predecessors. The corruption, brutality and lack of human rights still prevails despite who ever has power. Take Liberia as an example; the recently deposed dictator Charles Taylor was just as depraved and homicidle if not worse than his predecessor Samuel K. Doe. The same is true for the overwhelming majority of African countries. This leads me to ask the question: What is wrong with Black people world wide?

Why is it that everywhere you go (and I do mean EVERYWHERE) Black people face mass poverty and ineffectual leadership? Is there some thing wrong with us a race, or are we just cursed. Africa and her descendants (excluding the Arabs who pass themselve off as 'Africans') are the only people who have never had a world empire, and the only people who have been slaves to every other people. I once heard some Black people say that the Black race was indeed cursed by Noah through his son Ham and grandson Canaan because of some transgression committed by Ham. I'm vaguely familiar with this story, but it does lead me to ask many questions. Firstly, what type of a man is Noah who would punish his own countless descendants for the transgression of his son/grandson. Second, why would a God that 'loves everyone' permit an entire people to be cursed for some ancient transgression of one individual. And thirdly, how can the curse be broken.

Pehaps I'm being crazy or unduly defeatist, but when I see how dire our position is on the Earth I have to think of any possibility that may explain this phenomenon. What I'm talking about has been going on for about ar least a thousand years. Basically what I'm saying is: are we doomed to be the underdogs of the worlds peoples? Is that "our place" or is a thousand years of history wrong.

The problem with bringing "new blood" into African leadership is that the new leadership often turns out to be just as bad or worse than their predecessors. The corruption, brutality and lack of human rights still prevails despite who ever has power.

Why is it that everywhere you go (and I do mean EVERYWHERE) Black people face mass poverty and ineffectual leadership? Is there some thing wrong with us a race, or are we just cursed. Africa and her descendants (excluding the Arabs who pass themselve off as 'Africans') are the only people who have never had a world empire, and the only people who have been slaves to every other people.

The origins of PanAfricanism were rooted in the realization that black people worldwide were being enslaved or otherwise oppressed. Although looking at the overall worldwide black situation is enough to cause one to dispare, I see no need to do so. One thing I can say is the black people have always been the victims of some horrible leadership...........ones whos shortsighted decisions have hurt the continent decades...centuries...into the future. African participation in slavery (I know not all African leaders participated in the slave trade): From the Trans-Saharan slave trade, which introduced the world to African slavery. To the Trans-Atlantic slave trade which decimated Africa's population, and underdeveloped its economic, military, political, structures, damaged Africa in ways in which the motherland has never recovered. A closer look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade shows exactly why Africa is currently struggling: For one an estimated 30 million Africans (according to black historians, white historians, particularly Phillip Curtin argues only 1 million were taken) were taken during the roughly 400 years (1500-1900) that this trade lasted. The individuals who were stolen from African were generally 13-35. These are the young people who society is usually built by. During these 400 years Africa was so focused on the slave trade (either participating in it, or trying to stop it) that they neglected to catch up with the rapid military, scientific, and economic changes of the world. Which hurt Africa when Europe decided to colonize it during the Berlin Conference of 1884-1885.

All this being said, the true question is how can we change things? I for one believe that the social/economic state of black people worldwide will not improve until social/economic/political state of Africa improves. Every people has a native country, and the respect that people get worldwide is tied to the respect/power of the homeland. A British person can travel anywhere in the world, because England has the respect of the world. The same can be said of a Greek, a French person, even a Japanese. However, when you look at Africa and how it is perceived throughout the world, the treatment of black people is obvious. But again I digress. I'll say this though, Europe & America plays a strong role in the poor leadership that Africa suffers from. There is no "new" leader in Africa that does not have the approval/backing of their former colonial masters. Similarly no leader in Africa is "replaced" unless they stop securing the interest of their former colonial masters. The summary of this is that African leaders are not working for the betterment of their people/nations, they are working for their former colonial masters.

What we have in Africa is neo-colonization. In truth Africa was never freed, a nation can not have independence if it does not have control of its economy or its resources. Political independence without economic independence is an illusion! That Africa's leaders are controlled by the colonial masters is evident with Zaire's first president, Lumumba. For all intents and purposes he was a strong leader, without corruption, that wanted to built a strong nation. The result of this was that Belgium had him murdered after only 6 months in office, and handpicked a replacement who was loyal to Belgium. His replacement was Mobutu, one of Africa's most infamous butchers who placed the country in turmoil for almost 30 years.

The pattern of black people not working for the betterment of their communities is repeated worldwide. What have Condolesa Rice or Colin Powell done for the black community? How many blacks do our CEOs (like Richard Parsons) hire? We have black doctors, lawyers, engineers (which includes my own brother) who all use their brilliant minds/skill to enrich white corporations. Black people worldwide depend on whites to feed us, cloth us, provide us with shelter, educate us, etc! As long as this continues our situation worldwide will never change.

P.S. The Noah curse theory is nonsense. A white supremacy theory along the lines of "White Man's Burden". It deserves no attention, other than to note it as the garbage it is.

The origins of PanAfricanism were rooted in the realization that black people worldwide were being enslaved or otherwise oppressed. Although looking at the overall worldwide black situation is enough to cause one to dispare, I see no need to do so. One thing I can say is the black people have always been the victims of some horrible leadership...........ones whos shortsighted decisions have hurt the continent decades...centuries...into the future. African participation in slavery (I know not all African leaders participated in the slave trade): From the Trans-Saharan slave trade, which introduced the world to African slavery. To the Trans-Atlantic slave trade which decimated Africa's population, and underdeveloped its economic, military, political, structures, damaged Africa in ways in which the motherland has never recovered. A closer look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade shows exactly why Africa is currently struggling: For one an estimated 30 million Africans (according to black historians, white historians, particularly Phillip Curtin argues only 1 million were taken) were taken during the roughly 400 years (1500-1900) that this trade lasted. The individuals who were stolen from African were generally 13-35. These are the young people who society is usually built by. During these 400 years Africa was so focused on the slave trade (either participating in it, or trying to stop it) that they neglected to catch up with the rapid military, scientific, and economic changes of the world. Which hurt Africa when Europe decided to colonize it during the Berlin Conference of 1884-1885.

All this being said, the true question is how can we change things? I for one believe that the social/economic state of black people worldwide will not improve until social/economic/political state of Africa improves. Every people has a native country, and the respect that people get worldwide is tied to the respect/power of the homeland. A British person can travel anywhere in the world, because England has the respect of the world. The same can be said of a Greek, a French person, even a Japanese. However, when you look at Africa and how it is perceived throughout the world, the treatment of black people is obvious. But again I digress. I'll say this though, Europe & America plays a strong role in the poor leadership that Africa suffers from. There is no "new" leader in Africa that does not have the approval/backing of their former colonial masters. Similarly no leader in Africa is "replaced" unless they stop securing the interest of their former colonial masters. The summary of this is that African leaders are not working for the betterment of their people/nations, they are working for their former colonial masters.

What we have in Africa is neo-colonization. In truth Africa was never freed, a nation can not have independence if it does not have control of its economy or its resources. Political independence without economic independence is an illusion! That Africa's leaders are controlled by the colonial masters is evident with Zaire's first president, Lumumba. For all intents and purposes he was a strong leader, without corruption, that wanted to built a strong nation. The result of this was that Belgium had him murdered after only 6 months in office, and handpicked a replacement who was loyal to Belgium. His replacement was Mobutu, one of Africa's most infamous butchers who placed the country in turmoil for almost 30 years.

The pattern of black people not working for the betterment of their communities is repeated worldwide. What have Condolesa Rice or Colin Powell done for the black community? How many blacks do our CEOs (like Richard Parsons) hire? We have black doctors, lawyers, engineers (which includes my own brother) who all use their brilliant minds/skill to enrich white corporations. Black people worldwide depend on whites to feed us, cloth us, provide us with shelter, educate us, etc! As long as this continues our situation worldwide will never change.

P.S. The Noah curse theory is nonsense. A white supremacy theory along the lines of "White Man's Burden". It deserves no attention, other than to note it as the garbage it is.


Panafrica, if it is the case that Africa was never free and that the western nations control who Africa's leaders are, then how can we seriously hope to see any change on the continent. As you've already stated; most of Africa's "leaders" are really HNICs and not leaders at all, but really traitors. This was exactly the case when the Europeans first set foot on the African coast. Many of the national (not tribal) leaders of Africa simply obeyed what they told by the Europeans who promised and gave them worthless trinkets in place of human beings. Those African leaders who did refuse to play along with the Europeans who ether deposed, assassinated or watched their own people be enslaved by other groups who were in league with the Europeans. It is a common myth that African leaders simply wanted to sell their own people. Whilst there were plenty of those who were callous enough to do so willingly, most were coerced into compliance with the white man. Basically the Europeans told them "you ether bring us slaves or you and your people will be enslaved".

Has any country ever gained political/economic/social independence without violence? I'm no historian and don't know the facts, but if Africa was ever to truly become "free" and independent, seems to me nothing short of a revolution is required and I've never heard of one that didn't occur without some form of struggle and violence paving the way.

With the "right" people in place, Africa can thrive, and with over 50 countries, none should be neglected. The same way Europe and America help each other, I think that Africa can benefit from the same collaborative effort and comraderie. They exchange resources, they support each other in wars, they've established a set of rules to abide by (although they are not always followed nor enforced).

It seems that if anything resembling a United States of Africa were to be possible, the place to start is in the minds of Black people. Are there enough Black people worldwide who care about Africa and its current state and future, and if so, are they in agreement or at least organized?

I'm not promoting this but I think it's important to mention. Another feature that seems to earn countries "respect" is having access to what's called a, "weapon of mass destruction." Countries like Korea seem to have earned the respect of America since they acknowledged they own missiles and have no qualms about pointing them at America. I don't see Bush rushing into that country trying to bully its leaders like it did Iraq.

Maybe I'm being an extreme pessimist but I don't see anything short of a major war taking place to "free" Africa and putting it together the "right" way.

Has any country ever gained political/economic/social independence without violence? I'm no historian and don't know the facts, but if Africa was ever to truly become "free" and independent, seems to me nothing short of a revolution is required and I've never heard of one that didn't occur without some form of struggle and violence paving the way.
Maybe I'm being an extreme pessimist but I don't see anything short of a major war taking place to "free" Africa and putting it together the "right" way.

Good question NN! Technically you could say that Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Ethiopia all had independence without violence. If only because these countries never "officially" were colonized. But in reality Liberia has always been a colony of the USA, Sierra Leone a colony of England, and Ethiopia a colony of Italy. So in reality the answer to your question is NO. I can't think of any significant country, particularly a world power that gained true independence (political/social/economic), without violence. And that includes the United States of America which fought a couple of wars against its former colonizer........Britain. The closest example of a non-violent independence movement that I can think of is India. But I don't think Africa can effectively follow that example.

A major war might indeed be what Africa needs to rebuild itself in the right way. I would support this idea. As long as it is fought against the right people.
:wink: However one think that is extremely important is that the major resources and infastructure remains intact, so that Africa would not become another Haiti (who destroyed their resources in their independence struggle, and as a result had nothing to rebuild with). It is also very important to have the right people into place. Having the right people also addresses Chukwuemeka's concerns. I think that just maybe the people to lead Africa into a new age are in the Diaspora......this is where PanAfricanism comes into play.

A major war might indeed be what Africa needs to rebuild itself in the right way. I would support this idea. As long as it is fought against the right people.
:wink: However one think that is extremely important is that the major resources and infastructure remains intact, so that Africa would not become another Haiti (who destroyed their resources in their independence struggle, and as a result had nothing to rebuild with). It is also very important to have the right people into place. Having the right people also addresses Chukwuemeka's concerns. I think that just maybe the people to lead Africa into a new age are in the Diaspora......this is where PanAfricanism comes into play.

Panafrica, I don't know if you've noticed but the countries of Africa are a little bit weak militarily, economicaly and politicaly. Therefore, if any African country or even the whole country were to fight the west the would recieve a serious drubbing! The countries of Africa most somehow learn to play "The Great Game" of world imperialism if they are to succeed. Europe has been playing this game since William, Duke of Normandy--popularly known as "The Conqueror"-- decided to set sail from Normandy in September of 1066 inorder to invade the Island of Britain and claim the English throne.

You addressed a question I had Chukwuemeka...the strength of Africa's military. Panafrica, you raise another point. Which African countries are dependent on European support and which ones independent? I guess what I'm asking is, among the African countries, which ones would most likely be supportive of a United States of Africa concept and which ones would want to maintain their status quo?

What is the most major selling point of such an idea? What would make African countries want to pull together and form a united front? Would it ever be possible for Africa to revolt against its current political/social/economic system, without violence? If "war" is necessary, militarily, does Africa have the fighting power it needs to defend itself and damage its enemy? Who are the enemy and how can you tell?

Are there any wars that have been fought that Africans can learn from in terms of how to win?

For some reason, when it comes to Black people, I don't see a peaceful solution to our independence.

To varying degrees pretty much all of Africa continues to depend on Europe & America. Although Nigeria, Ghana, and S. Africa have the strongest economies. Although South Africa's momentum has been slowed due to the horrible AIDS crisis they are having. Senegal also has a very strong economy, and they are one of the most stable countries in Africa. However, Senegal is incredibly dependent on France.

I like NN believe that ultimately it might take military action to finally free Africa from European rule. However I do agree with Chukwuemeka that all of Africa's military is currently very weak. I did not intend, nor did I mean to imply that this is the immediate course of action Africa has to take. This could only happen if Africa improves its economy, political structure, and military first. Which I might add is what the United States of Africa is about.

To address Chuk's second concern, Africa could never play the "game" of world imperalism and win, because they are the subject of that game. In a continual world of imperalism (or "globalism" as it is currently called) Africa will always be the one who is colonized, not the colonizer. So again it is folly to think we can continue to be active and willing subjects of this system. The biggest problem in Africa is that it continues to depend on Europe to exploit its resources, which Europe gladly does. However Europe has no interest in developing African countries (and they shouldn't because it isn't their country), Europe literally take what it needs, and then they leave. Africa has Diamond mines, Oil fields, Gold mines, Gas fields, Copper mines, as well as the processing plants and power generators to extract these resources. What Africa doesn't have is infastructure. No modern roads, inadequate hospitals, poor plumbing systems, unreliable electrical systems, fertile farm which isn't properly exploited, etc. Why does Africa have the former and not the latter? Because again they depend on Europe to build it, and Europe has no interest in doing so.

To further drive this point home I'll give a specific example. Equatorial Guinea is a new African hotspot because of an amazing amount of oil and natural gas discoveries over the last 10 years. These finds have made the country's president extremely wealthy, and France & the United States (who has invested hundreds of millions in the country in the last 3 years) very happy. However, the people are miserable: E. Guinea has no modern plumbing system, and sewage is flowing into the streets. As you can imagine this would make a lot of people sick, and it does. Although when the do get sick going to the hospital doesn't help because it is inept! Hospitals in E. Guinea don't even provide food for its patients, their families have to bring it to them (I might add the jails, which are made up of mostly political prisoners, is the same way). Many people in the country are starving, because the grocery stores don't have food (and too many don't have money to buy what little is available). The stores in the country aren't even run by the people, but by Asians!! I also might add that the country's president no longer employs guards from E. Guinea. He now employs Arab and Morrocan guards, who are raping women, little girls, and little boys (crimes which were previously very rare in the country). After 4pm the country has no electricity until the next morning. Why is this? Because that is when the oil and gas plants close for the day. The schools in E. Guinea only go up to the 8th grade. Those who wish to be educated have to go to Europe (usually Spain) or America. There they learn to play the "game" so well, that they usually marry white people, and forget about there country all together. America had an embassy in E. Guinea which it closed in the early 90s do due a lack of economic interest, and officially because of its "horrible" human rights abuses. When oil was discovered in the country...surprise, surprise.....the US reopened the embassy. Had the country's human rights situation changed? No, it actually had gotten worse, but America didn't really care about that, all they wanted was oil (which they are getting in abundance).

Some might look at E. Guinea as an example of why a United States of Africa wouldn't work, but I look at it as exactly why a United States of Africa is needed. The inadequate infastructure in Africa creates a gap that needs to be filled. Europe has no interest in filling this gap (in E. Guinea it was Spain which left the country in this state to begin with); however, Africans in the diaspora can. There are thousands of black engineers, architects, and plumbers in the diaspora (particularly in America) that can rebuild/build Africa's infastructure. There are black farmers that can teach Africa how to properly exploit its farm land, which in many cases it fertile, but simply unused (E. Guinea for example has fertile farmland, but aren't allowed to use it). I'm sure people remember the famine that Ethiopia suffered in the 80s. That suffering was needless, because Africa in general has good farm land, and fertile soil. Any number of Africa countries could have and should have given Ethiopia food. This would not have only been the humane thing to do, it could also have been very profitable.

That is the overall point. The United States of Africa needs to happen, and it needs Africans in the Diapora to help make it work. In particular African American business people need go to Africa and help improve its infastructure. They should use/share the expertise that they possess, which Africans lack. This is not charity, it is an unprecidented business opportunity. It is an opportunity for African Americans to form their own companies, in a market that desperately needs it, without any competition. It is an opportunity to make themselves wealthy instead of making wealthy white corporations even wealthier, and at the same time help people become self-sufficient. Improved infastructure is necessary to bring the United States of Africa into fruition. Doing so would set up Intra-African trade, which would eliminate its need to sell its products to European markets (and as a result, would lessen its dependance on Europe). The value of intra-country trade is evident: I don't have to travel to Florida to get oranges, nor do I need to go to Detriot to get a car. I can drink wine without going to California, I can eat beef without going to Texas or Chicago. Intra-country or in the case of Africa Intra-continent trade creates wealth. It is a win-win for Africa!

PA, given all that you wrote..and thanks for the detail..do you believe that your solution of African American business people going to Africa to help build strong infrastructures will work as a logical first step?

If present governments are corrupted by their exposure and dependence on Europe for their livelihood and are contributing to the poor living conditions in their countries as a result, how is it that any of us can help without overthrowing the system of government and changing foreign relations first?

Because most of the African nations are so dependent on Europe and have grown accustomed to this co-dependent relationship, wouldn't there need to be some internal revolution first before the benefits that African American business people can make, can be productive and effective?

The mechanics...sending doctors, lawyers, teachers, nurses, engineers, technicians, food, medical supplies and drugs are one thing and probably the easiert thing to do. But there needs to be an open and accessible society and a system of government that is socialized to allow these vital resources--modern roads, state-of-the-art healthcare, affordable and modern housing, education, jobs, agriculture, technical advances, etc.--to reach all of the people and not just those sitting at the top of the political food chain don't you think? At least if a United States of Africa is going to work like it should.

The vultures that sit in office branches watching over and hoarding the high quality goods and services need to be uprooted and removed from power. Greed can be taught as evidenced by the many people exposed to it by the masters of it. Once some people have tasted it, they don't change easily.

Those of us who want the distribution of wealth to be broad in our community, are hard pressed to deal with the people who often would rather die than give up what they have and share it. In order for Africa to be independent with a strong infrastruture, enforcing good human rights policies and economically and politically sound, does she have to sleep with the 'enemy' and compromise her values and spiritual beliefs in order to compete?

As African-Americans, fighting against Jim Crow laws served to rally us around a common goal and gave us purpose. Since many of these laws were changed and society opened up to us in ways we never thought it would, we seemed to have been wondering in the American wilderness ever since, searching for our new purpose. Maybe if we understand why it's important to fight to free the homeland of our ancestors, where our roots extend from, we can begin to see that the benefits will extend to African decendents throughout the disapora.

At the risk of sounding militant--what comes first...the evolution or the revolution?

Peace,

The word revolution sounds valiant and noble, but I think, the last thing Africa needs is more warfare. If you haven’t noticed, African nations have been in constant insurrection and civil war since they’ve dethroned their European colonizers. At the end of the day, ruthless dictators still ruled and more Africans died. I think it’s easy to debate, “African revolution” in the pseudo-comforts and confines of America. It’s like armchair quarterbacking.

There has been a lot of important facts and intelligent discourse in this thread. But to bring more legitimacy to the idea of a “United States of Africa”, we need to kick this discussion up a notch. Revolution can be an oversimplified idea and can sometimes distort, the resolutions needed to invoke change. We should not always militarize our ideas (in the context of Africa’s future).

Peace,

Sun Ship

Much respect Brother Sun Ship for your wise words and uplifting advice. I guess I showed my militant side in my previous posts. Reacting to a sense of frustration tends to come from me that way. Let there be no doubt that what I want most for Africa is not more senseless bloodshed. If there is a peaceful solution that will bring about change as this thread suggests, then I'm very interested in hearing what it is.

You suggest we move this discussion up a notch and I'm in agreement. Absent military aggression as a means to depose corrupted leaders and sever destructive ties with countries that only harm the vast majority of African people, what are your thoughts on a United States of Africa and the probability of such a concept ever becoming a reality? Is this a lofty notion, romanticized by those of us who sit in the comfort of their American homes?

I certainly didn't intend for it to sound as though I could call the shots on the state of Africa or give the impression that I know what is best for her. No, I'm but a novice seeking to learn whatever I can to see where I can make the greatest contribution to her well-being in addition to the well-being of us all. So, I'm leaving the armchair and pulling a chair up to the table for more meaningful dialogue.

So take me to school...

Peace.

All this being said, the true question is how can we change things? I for one believe that the social/economic state of black people worldwide will not improve until social/economic/political state of Africa improves.

What we have in Africa is neo-colonization. In truth Africa was never freed, a nation can not have independence if it does not have control of its economy or its resources. Political independence without economic independence is an illusion! That Africa's leaders are controlled by the colonial masters is evident with Zaire's first president, Lumumba. For all intents and purposes he was a strong leader, without corruption, that wanted to built a strong nation. The result of this was that Belgium had him murdered after only 6 months in office, and handpicked a replacement who was loyal to Belgium. His replacement was Mobutu, one of Africa's most infamous butchers who placed the country in turmoil for almost 30 years.

Economically, some African countries fare better than others. What is it that the profitable countries do that the impoverished countries don't? Is it that they are too dependent on foreign countries for their basic needs? I found this thread and it made me think of this discussion. African Economies. . .
http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17392

Under a United States of Africa, would/could there be the equivalent of a "Bill of Rights" and "Constitution"?

I've just recently finished reading the book "King Leopold's Ghost" by Adam Hochschild--chilling. I feel so angry at how Imperialist bastards (forgive my French) raped Africa!!! Who the HELL gave them the right to call Africans savages, when they we're responsible for far more incomprehensible atrocities!!! Then they have the nerve to belittle the impact that slavery and colonization has had on an ENTIRE people. Get the **** out of here!!! It was THEY who are the cause of almost all of our wars and yet they THEY blame us for our condition--give me a break! That's like giving someone a cold, and then blaming them for sneezing. If you read the way the imperialists treated Africans you'll ether cry or explode with anger. Here is just two extract from the book. The first is an account from a Black female witness Mingo of Mampoko at an international commission carried out to find out the extent of the atrocities committed in the Congo under the ownership of King Leopold II of Belgium. The second is from another Black male witness Etuku who is the paramount (supreme) chief of Boieka:

"While I was working at brick-making at Mampoko, twice the sentries Nkusu Lomboto and Itokwa, to punish me, pulled up my skirt and put clay in my vagina, which made me suffer greatly. The white man Likwama [a company agent named Henri Spelier] saw me with clay in my vagina. He said nothing more than, 'if you die working for me, they'll throw you in the river.'"

Another witness Etuku, the paramount chief of Boieka said:

"I knew jungi well. He died about two months ago from the whipping he received. I saw him hit and I saw him die. It was about three or four meters from the white man's veranda, at the spot I showed you, between the two cactuses. They stretched him out on the ground. The white man Ekotolongo [Molle] held his head, while Nkoi [Ablay], standing at his feet, hit him with a cane. Three canes were broken during the execution. Finally Nkoi kicked Jungi several times and told him to get up. When he didn't move, Ekate said to the white man, 'This man is dead. You've killed him...' The white man replied, 'I don't give a ****. The judges are white men like me.'...Jungi was buried the next day...Jungi was an old man but he had been healthy."

These two extracts are only the tip of the iceberg. It is estimated that the population of the Congo was reduced by half because of the atrocities that were carried out there. In just two decades the population dropped from 20 million to 10 million. That means at least 500,000 people were killed each year in a genocide that doesn't even make a blip on our history books. So when these stupid imperialists (and their apologists) claim that they some how brought civilization to Africa, I feel like...I won't finish what I was about to say!!! In fact many of the horrendous practices being carried out in the Congo today were first learned from the imperialist who introduced them!

PA, given all that you wrote..and thanks for the detail..do you believe that your solution of African American business people going to Africa to help build strong infrastructures will work as a logical first step?

If present governments are corrupted by their exposure and dependence on Europe for their livelihood and are contributing to the poor living conditions in their countries as a result, how is it that any of us can help without overthrowing the system of government and changing foreign relations first?

Because most of the African nations are so dependent on Europe and have grown accustomed to this co-dependent relationship, wouldn't there need to be some internal revolution first before the benefits that African American business people can make, can be productive and effective?

These are all very good questions NN. I believe the best way to reduce Africa's dependence on Europe, is to reduce their need for Europe's help (or any outside help for that matter). In truth Africa needs outside help for developing its infastructure: From airports to trains to roads to matters as simple building wells. This would allow them to move goods, and develop markets. However, since many lack the knowledge or the resources to do so for themselves; Africa turns to Europe for help because they have always been there. It is obvious in our discussions that in Europe they are going in the wrong direction. Although many people simply do not know where to turn to for help or advice. For example I remember once that one of my African history professors from Sierra Leone told me that he was hired by an African town (I don't remember which) to oversee the construction of a bridge. He was hired simply because he was a Ph.D! However this man had a Ph.D in history, he wasn't an engineer. This is not only an example of the lack of knowledge of where to turn to, but of some Africans willingness to exploit one another (because my professor knew he couldn't be of help, yet still took the job).

Although the economic future of Africa doesn't look rosey, there is a positive to this debate: An African/African American business merger might be closer to reality than we even realize. I know 1st hand the the founder of the now defunct African Profiles Magazine has spearheaded an effort to get African American business leaders to invest in Nigeria. There are a couple of PanAfrican organizations which encourage investment in the African Stock market. There are steps, for now baby steps, but nonetheless steps being made in the right direction. We should keep in mind that it took Europe over 30 years to develop their union, and they were stable. It can take Africa no less time. This is not a solution that is possible in the immediate future, but a necessary one for the not too distant future.

P.S. NN you might want to check out Walter Rodney's "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa" it is a amazing work on the economic effects of Imperialism on Africa.

PA, so to put it in simple terms, are you suggesting that if African-Americans who are resourceful, lend their knowledge and skills to African countries with poor infrastructures, they will gradually become less dependent on European countries for support--then, eventually, becoming more economically/socially independent?

I see that I need to read and study more on this issue because it's a critical one. It raises a number of questions but I'm not sure how to frame the questions without them sounding superfulous. I don't want to simply skim the surface on this discussion because it deserves far more respect than that.

I think we need the collective and healthy minds and energy from all members of our African-American society. I believe we all have something of value to contribute to Africa if we give it some serious thought.

There's a huge push in America today, particularly on college campuses, on volunteerism and the many benefits gained when people volunteer their time to help strengthen a community. We have a strong history as African-Americans for engaging in volunteer service. We work through churches, grass-roots and national level organizations, we work in fraternities and sororities as well as help each other on an individual basis. But we tend to localize our efforts and my thinking is we may need to extend our efforts to Africa as well.

My sense is that we, African-Americans, need to start seeing the value in getting involved with PanAfrican organizations and be willing to help each other on a global scale. Doing so should not be perceived as counter-productive to one's sense of self, it shouldn't go against anyone's spiritual beliefs, and it doesn't mean you're a militant person out to kill "whitey". That might be what some people would want you to believe in order to keep Black people divided and Africa impoverished, but it's not true. For African-Americans, ignorance is not bliss.

We now know that there are a number of organizations that exist but maybe someone needs to share contact information and some details about how people can get involved. Are there newsletters that people can subscribe to keep abreast of information and activities. It would be nice to know whether the various PanAfrican organizations have or can come together to form a coalition, which can spearhead and stimulate the creation of a "United States of Africa".

Hopefully slavery and racism haven't effectively removed any sense of attachment from us for our Africa. Some of us might fear getting involved to any degree but the question these people should ask themselves is, what do you stand to lose if you don't?

Maybe helping Africa will give us a chance to take our minds temporarily off of our own personal problems so that we can sharpen our "helping" and problem solving skills, build alliances with our indigenous brothers and sisters making us a force necessary to do business with, and ultimately help ourselves through strengthening our mutual relationships.

Peace!

Surfing through the older thread in the "Open" Forum. Here's a short quote from the thread starters original post:

09-24-2002, 01:00 AM
Africa Unite Post #1

Chibinda
MEMBER

Joined: Sep 2002
Age: 33 Greetings to you all,

This is your invitation to join/support the new APU, founded on 4 september 2002. Below is a brief discription of the place the APU takes in the greater scheme of things.

The APU is the ultimate in the world-wide Pan-African movement. Its main objective is the empowerment of the grassroots of the African people, the level on which the war for the mind of the African has always been fought, the level on which the survival of the race has always depended.

It is therefore not far fetched to say that this is the level on which the fight for freedom, dignity and control of our destiny will be won.

There are already a number of organizations working to empower the grassroots of African people, the most notable and organized being in the diaspora.

A good example of this would be the PowerNomics Broadcasting Network (PRN). Structured on Dr. Claud Anderson's Powernomics book, designed to be the advertising arm for the growing number of PowerNomics-based businesses and industries, it is dedicated to using its talk-programming to make Black America self-sufficient and competitive, and is one of the first organizations authorized to use the PowerNomics® name.

To read more details, visit here:

http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10468

Peace!

Chukwuemeka: Here are some interesting facts that I found whilst surfing the net, which I thourght would be relevant on this thread.
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*Two white men, Bill Gates and Larry Ellison, combined have more wealth than the combined wealth of all 36 million blacks in America. Civil Rights did not change the economic landscape or the balance or power in America.

*Best reason to stop our use of the term African American and stay Black. A white person who was born in Africa and moves to America is an African American and qualifies for financial aid, etc. But that white person will get the jobs/pay privileges afforded to ordinary whites.

*Look up the Slavery Law of 1665(which stayed in effect until 1968) and the Maryland Doctrine of Exclusion(1638). Both laws state that blacks must be excluded from the benefits afforded whites and that blacks must remain non-competitive with whites, except in sports and entertainment.

*Asians receive approximately 80% of all government minority set aside contracts.

*There are no black-owned national cable or major network television stations. The black woman who owns the only black owned radio stations, plans to sell to white owners after hearing the deal Bob Johnson recieved for selling BET.

*There are no black-owned companies on Wall Street's Stock Exchange where blacks own the majority or the controlling interest of the stock.

*Almost 86% of all U.S inmates are black men, who make up only 6% of the population.

*Over the next two years 440,000 of U.S black inmates will be released from prison. The State has no place to put them as they re-enter society.

*In 1860, blacks in America had a combined net worth of half of one percentage point. In 2001, after Civil Rights, Jesse Jackson, Oprah, Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, NAACP, and the Urban League, our combined net worth is still half a percentage point.

*In 1860, 98% of all blacks in America worked for white people. In 2001, 98% of all blacks in America still work for white people.

*for every dollar earned by a Jewish person, that dollar touches 12-18 Jewish hands before it leaves their community. For every dollar earned by a black person, it leaves the community as soon as he or she earns it.

*Not long ago, in Washington, DC, black teenagers were arrested and booked for eating McDonalds on the Metro subway. Cops cited the recent 5-4 Supreme Court decision as their permission to arrest lawbreakers even for minor offenses.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You see how depressing life is as a black person in this world. Look how all the "progress" we thourght we were making really amounts to NOTHING!!! We haven't really gone anywhere, we're still back in the plantations of slavery and bondage, which we were placed into by oyibo man. So I ask you, is there no hope for the black man in this world, or our we just wasting our time in thinking that we'll ever catch up to whites? Please respond to my question. Thanx.

Chukwuemeka: Here are some interesting facts that I found whilst surfing the net, which I thourght would be relevant on this thread.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Two white men, Bill Gates and Larry Ellison, combined have more wealth than the combined wealth of all 36 million blacks in America. Civil Rights did not change the economic landscape or the balance or power in America.

*Best reason to stop our use of the term African American and stay Black. A white person who was born in Africa and moves to America is an African American and qualifies for financial aid, etc. But that white person will get the jobs/pay privileges afforded to ordinary whites.

*Look up the Slavery Law of 1665(which stayed in effect until 1968) and the Maryland Doctrine of Exclusion(1638). Both laws state that blacks must be excluded from the benefits afforded whites and that blacks must remain non-competitive with whites, except in sports and entertainment.

*Asians receive approximately 80% of all government minority set aside contracts.

*There are no black-owned national cable or major network television stations. The black woman who owns the only black owned radio stations, plans to sell to white owners after hearing the deal Bob Johnson recieved for selling BET.

*There are no black-owned companies on Wall Street's Stock Exchange where blacks own the majority or the controlling interest of the stock.

*Almost 86% of all U.S inmates are black men, who make up only 6% of the population.

*Over the next two years 440,000 of U.S black inmates will be released from prison. The State has no place to put them as they re-enter society.

*In 1860, blacks in America had a combined net worth of half of one percentage point. In 2001, after Civil Rights, Jesse Jackson, Oprah, Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, NAACP, and the Urban League, our combined net worth is still half a percentage point.

*In 1860, 98% of all blacks in America worked for white people. In 2001, 98% of all blacks in America still work for white people.

*for every dollar earned by a Jewish person, that dollar touches 12-18 Jewish hands before it leaves their community. For every dollar earned by a black person, it leaves the community as soon as he or she earns it.

*Not long ago, in Washington, DC, black teenagers were arrested and booked for eating McDonalds on the Metro subway. Cops cited the recent 5-4 Supreme Court decision as their permission to arrest lawbreakers even for minor offenses.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You see how depressing life is as a black person in this world. Look how all the "progress" we thourght we were making really amounts to NOTHING!!! We haven't really gone anywhere, we're still back in the plantations of slavery and bondage, which we were placed into by oyibo man. So I ask you, is there no hope for the black man in this world, or our we just wasting our time in thinking that we'll ever catch up to whites? Please respond to my question. Thanx.

All these statistics are proof of the hopelessness of our efforts to prosper in a racist white dominated & controlled society. Is there hope? Yes building our own....which is what this thread is about.

Pan, the problem with black people world wide is that we don't think—seriously! Believe it or not this was deliberately implemented by are white conquerors to keep us perpetually dependent on them (i.e. slaves). This brainwashing was very shrewd and systematic. The prototype of this model was first used on American blacks, and then subsequently used by the Europeans in their attempts to keep us subservient. If you study the speeches of William Lynch-a 17th Century slave owner who devised a theory on keeping African slaves in the Americas and their descendants perpetually subservient to the white man-you'll understand exactly what I'm tying to say.

Anyway, this brainwashing has seriously prevented black people from thinking. In fact the brainwashing was intended to allow white people to think for us. This has worked so well that it till this day we are still slaves. That's why you have extreme poverty anywhere black people are appear in great numbers. You know that in reality black people are NOT poor, right? No, it's not a joke, I'm very serious. Our true problem is what we DO with the money we have. Conspicuous consumption is a disease upon the minds of blacks that exists around the world. This is the mental illness of spending more than one need or can afford simply to show off in front of others. That's why you'll find black people driving around in $40,000 cars but have no investments, not even money in their bank account; wearing only designer clothes yet struggling to pay the bills or find enough money to feed their children; and waist all their money with foreigners but can't figure out why their community is dirt poor.

The reason why black people hate ourselves but love others is that we have literally been taught to think that way. Whites taught black people that our ways were "primitive" and "barbaric", whilst theirs were "civilized" and "humane." We were even taught to not trust our own capabilities, but to forever look to whites for our "salvation." For example, look at the situation in Liberia. Are you telling me that the whole of ECOWAS could not have handled a crisis in their own back yard without the need to call in the U.S? If this is the case, then what are these impoverished countries doing wasting their money on an impotent organization that can't execute its duties? What's the point in West African countries spending 10% of their annual budget on an ineffectual military when their people have no education and our starving at home?

This mentality also leads us to denigrate our own whilst pleasing that of our traducers. Have you ever noticed how black people always treat anything black with disfavor, whilst praising every thing white? That's how come you'll find some people on this forum posting threads proclaiming how "corrupt", "selfish" or "stupid" WE are. Yet praising the west and their leaders as perfect beings who are "selfless", "intelligent" and can do no wrong. They obviously aren't aware that the west is infinately more corrupt and selfish than we are. After all we have not colonized anyone or arraigned trade agreements to shamelessly benefit us at the expense of the world, have we?

Black people as a rule do not see that there is more money in their own back yard than in the white community. This phenomenon of foreigners coming into black communities and making a killing off the unenlightened masses is nothing new. It's also been happening in Africa, the U.K, Brazil, Jamaica etc. It is the result of black people being quick to spend their money with others before themselves. If you want to get rich quick I suggest that you seriously study the peculiar way in which black people think. Because for the most part black people do not think! Not really anyway. Instead of saving enough money-whilst spending our time in the west-in order to travel home and start a business, we make up all kinds of excuses about how and why our ventures will not work. Yet everywhere we see Lebanese, Indians and Europeans coming to the Black community and making immense fortunes. This occurs despite the violence, drug problems and despair apparent in the community. Why? Because we spend our time in this world without truly thinking about how it works.

But, like I've already stated, the truth is black people have been deliberately taught how not to think, or question the way things work. We leave this arduous task to the white man, who happily thinks of a new way to beat us down. Look at how we fight each other over religions that were handed down to us by our two greatest enemies: the Arabs and the Europeans. If that's not an exercise in mental inertia, then I don't know what is! How will black people break this mental inferiority complex? I really don't know, but that's what we need to discuss more instead of a pipe dream of reparations. Whilst talking about reparations is good because it significantly highlights just how great the injustice done to us was; we need to be realistic about how successful we can be. We can't wait for the "salvation" of the white man before we start building our own economic infrastructures. Our people are dying of hunger and malnutrition NOW!!! If they decide to give us reparations in ten years from now, how many people will have to die of preventable diseases and hunger, or go without an education or jobs before we get to that point? Thanx.

Brilliant post sister, it exudes strength of conviction and a great deal of intellectual honesty, I applaud you based on the above post...it is a welcome change from the dishonest and highly suspect trash, fluff and claptrap I've seen on various supposedly pro-black [ha!] forums over the past month.

The highlight of your post for me was the comment in which you said:

Because for the most part black people do not think! Not really anyway. Instead of saving enough money-whilst spending our time in the west-in order to travel home and start a business, we make up all kinds of excuses about how and why our ventures will not work.

Exactly, exactly, work, save, get out of there...so you may travel, work elsewhere, where you are wanted or at the very least, will not be forced to bare the very real and heavy mental burden of media induced racist villification and marginalisation because your skin just happens to be beautifully dark.

Exactly my sentiments, we must do things on our own apart from whites since they have, down through the passing of the centuries, shown absolutely no intention of ever wanting to 'love us', it has always been about utilisation of strategies designed to exploit blacks in one way or another and preventing blacks from even daring to be independent and trust their own ways of doing this.

By the way, I have said in the past that 'blacks are stupid' and this was not in anyway meant to refer to their [er...our] general levels of intelligence, but prudent foresight politically and financially speaking, in general among blacks.

My comment in this respect was in the context of which you speak, that despite our combined spending power, inexhaustible creative energies and genius, multifarious cultural wealth together with that of an abundance of mineral and agricultural [quality of soil] wealth...we keep asking whites to make it all better and lovingly pat us on the forehead, cooing "there there all you bistered and psychologically loyal and servile, tough knee-padded blacks, dry your eyes, everythings gonna be allll right, go back to sleep now, tomorrows a new day and things will change for the better, you'll see"

Otherwise in another few hundred years, our descendants will be saying the same exact things, that is if we are still here and have not been covertly done away with.


Peace

Oh BTW, here's a link to Mu`ammar al-Qadhafi's 'Green Book' if you have not already read it.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8744/readgb.htm

Truth to the power. Thank you uzoka and Chukwuemeka! After reading what you both wrote, we should all think about shutting down our computers and sitting quietly to reflect on it. We all need to think about what parts of what you describe are we 'guilty' of in terms of conspicuous consumers.

Could the fact that many of us (Blacks) are being led by the nose to slaughter be partially our fault because we don't ever exercise our right and obligation to think for ourselves? The signs are all around us, flashing brightly yet many of us don't see, or refuse to accept what we do see. Many of us don't take responsibility for things we have control of and then turn around and blame others for what we do and won't do. Nautilus, Nike, FUBU, etc., how often do they pay us to walk around and advertise their products? If you invested that luxury car note and lowered your car insurance each month, how much better off would you be financially? Trained not to think yet we are born with the equipment and ability to think.

Trained to not think but it's not that we can't. But, why won't we? Training isn't always permanent is it? Can't we be deprogrammed? I asked this once before in another thread.

[QUOTE=NNQueen]Truth to the power. Thank you uzoka and Chukwuemeka! After reading what you both wrote, we should all think about shutting down our computers and sitting quietly to reflect on it. of us (Blacks) are being led by the nose to We all need to think about what parts of what you describe are we 'guilty' of in terms of conspicuous consumers.[QUOTE]


NNQ, the "training" which Black people have undergone is VERY deep and psychological; it goes straight to the heart of ALL of our problems. Black people have been programmed to think and act a certain way, which continues and perpetuates our enslavement. This "programming" is so subtle that it's almost impossible to completely break it, yet most Black people are not even aware of it! This "programming" is more commonly known as the slave, Negro or ghetto mentality. I don't care who you are; every Black person has been affected by this mentality to certain a degree. How couldn't you--the Eurocentric society that dominates the world preaches and demands the subordination of the Black race to the White race. From the time any Black child is born till the day they die, they constantly barraged with images, literature and music, which emphasizes Black inferiority.

Black people do not exercise their right to think, because they have been told what to think and what not to think! Since slavery Blacks have been told to put their faith in Whites only; and to denigrate anything Black. That's why you have so many Black children growing up in to adults with acute inferiority complexes. It's one of the reasons why Black people LOVE to spend their money with anybody is isn't Black, yet ALWAYS find an excuse not to spend with Black businesses. Why Black boys dream of being athletes or entertainers rather than making a real impact to there community. Why Blacks are the only people who see moving up someone else’s corporate ladder as being successful instead of building their own businesses. That's also why you have so many Black organizations looking to the White power structure for the salvation of the appalling conditions of the Ghetto. These "Black" organizations firmly believe that the best way for Blacks to get ahead is by involving Whites in our struggle, mainly through integration. They illogically assume that if Blacks were to shrug of their Blackness by behaving like Whites do, that there no longer would be any reason for Whites to hate Black people. Thus, Blacks would gain "acceptance" from Whites, who would no longer see the need to oppress the Black race. Now, how misguided is that!!!

Chukwuemeka...what you express rings loudly of truth about our condition as a people. What you describe reads a very depressing tale. You explain very well the deep psychological impact of our ill treatment and our, seemingly, inability to fight such strong forces that operate against us, both, internal and external to our community. The complication of the situation is overwhelming, true, and appears to be hopeless and unsurmountable. But just as sure as it happened, I still firmly believe that we can unlock the mental chains and "free" ourselves. We obviously aren't going to figure it out overnight, but we must never, ever give up trying.

Time and time again, this message of dysfunctional behavior, mental laziness, and powerlessness, is posted to describe Black people worldwide. Doom and gloom is perpetually offered as our story. Questions are constantly raised as to whether this is our fate in this life. Biblical scripture has been quoted to explain our fate as children of Ham (I believe that's the correct Biblical character). Were Black people created to be servants to others? Are we simply a higher form of a beast of burden? Questions like, why is it that we seem to be the only people who can't build a community that is supportive of itself and profits from the collective talents and skills of its people? Why don't we seem to want ownership of ourselves? What's wrong with us?

The common denominator to many of the threads that point to our issues is mostly always explained away as a result of racism and oppression. If this is in fact the case, then how do we ever expect to "fix" all these other issues we raise in our threads, i.e., poor relationships, moral corruption, interracial issues, poverty, and other self-destructive behavior, until we address the ROOT cause--racism and its affect on us?

If some people believe that racism is so powerful and pervasive that it keeps a mental grip on us such that we can't think for ourselves, then what hope do we have of ever changing and why do we keep discussing it as though we can? Are we so disabled by racism that we're as paralyzed and helpless as someone who suffers a spinal injury? The will to fight and regain control of your ability to walk may still be there, but the reality of ever doing it again is slim to impossible. At some point after trying so hard, you eventually give up and stop trying. Is that our fate as Black people? Have we simply given up trying, although many of us SAY we haven't?

What does it take to change? Where does the effort begin? Our consciousness as a Black person? What does it mean to be CONSCIOUS? Is there such a thing as a fake Black conscious individual? Do sacrifices need to be made? Can a Black person have a white conscious and not know it? What's the difference between white consciousness and Black consciousness? If we don't know the difference then how do we know who we are? We live in a society that encourages individualism and not communalism. Which do we prefer?

I suggest that we no longer despair and find reason to do more than highlight the problems we have. We NEED solutions. Let's go back to the basics of this thread in search for some. This thread topic is a good one. Let's go deeper into it and not get caught up with a shopping list pointing to our dysfunctional behavior. How realistic is this UNITED STATES OF AFRICA concept? Let's stop going from one extreme to the other....from powerlessness to all powerful, and get centered.

How good are we at solving problems? It's a process that needs to be learned and done as skillfully as others seem to, that is, if we are ever to bring about positive results. Is it true that for every problem, there is a solution? There are thinkers among us...some have the guts to speak up and others are spineless. "The squeeky wheel gets the grease."

Peace. :spinstar:

Peace Sister Queenie,

Sorry for my delayed response, but I will love to interject my most humble opinions to this interesting and highly charged discussion when time permits, for this subject demands deep thought and a well thought out response.

I did link to the Green Book web page, most graciously posted by Brother uzoka and I thought I would post the section referring to Blacks. I would like the Brothers and Sisters to read this and give their opinions on what Mu`ammar al-Qadhafi has written.

The statements below are from Mu`ammar al-Qadhafi’s Green Book (the bold type emphasis is mine) :


THE BLACKS

THE BLACKS WILL PREVAIL
IN THE WORLD

The latest age of slavery is the white
race's enslavement of the black race.
The black man will not forget this until
he has achieved rehabilitation.
This tragic and historic event, the
resulting bitter feeling, and the search
for satisfaction derived from rehabili-
tating a whole race, constitute a
psychological motivation in the move-
ment of the black race to vengeance
and domination, which cannot be disre-
garded. Added to that is the inevitabil-
ity of the social historical cycles in-
cluding the yellow race' s domination of
the world when it marched from Asia
against the rest of the continents. Then
came the role of the white race, when it
carried out a wide-ranging colonialist
movement covering all the continents
of the world. Now comes the black
race's turn to prevail.
The black race is now in a very
backward social situation. But such

[45]


backwardness helps to bring about
numerical superiority of the blacks
because their low standard of living
has protected them from getting to
know the means and ways of birth
control and family planning. Also their
backward social traditions are a
reason why there is no limit to mar-
riage, leading to their unlimited
growth, while the population of other
races has decreased because of birth
control, restrictions on marriage and
continuous occupation in work, unlike
the blacks who are sluggish in a cli-
mate which is always hot.

Since the so-called curse of Canaan, has been mentioned more than once, in this thread, I would like to submit a quick "web page" reference to the origin of this insidious myth. The implication of servile Canaanites i.e., “Blacks”, relating to the text below, can be found in any “King James Version type” bible.

You can read the actual and complete rendering in the Babylonian Talmud yourself.

The Jewish historian, Dr. Harold D. Brackman of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in California, has documented the fifteen hundred year old Talmudic origins of the Hamitic Myth, which alleges a Biblical curse on the African race. "There is no denying," he writes in his 1977 Ph.D. dissertation, "that the Babylonian Talmud was the first source to read a Negrophobic content into [the Noah story in the Biblical Book of Genesis, from which the Talmudic gloss derives]." Brackman continues,

The more important version of the myth, however, ingeniously ties in the origins of blackness -- and of other, real and imagined Negroid traits - with Noah's Curse itself. According to it, Ham is told by his outraged father that because you have abused me in the darkness of the night, your children shall be born black and ugly; because you have twisted your head to cause me embarrassment, they shall have kinky hair and red eyes; because your lips jested at my exposure, theirs shall swell; and because you neglected my nakedness, they shall go naked with their shamefully elongated male members exposed for all to see ("The Ebb and Flow of Conflict: A History of Black-Jewish Relations through 1900," Ph.D. dissertation, UCLA, 1977, pp. 80,81.)

Much Props to Sun Ship for posting information about the Hamitic Hypothesis!! I had been searching for my old history notes and articles for the origin of this idiotic tale.....but couldn't find it to save my life. As I said before though this theory is nonsense and deserves no attention from us other than to shoot it down (it certainly doesn't belong in this thread)!!

While I'm in the Props giving mood....much Props to my sista in the struggle NN Queen. NN...I laughed out loud when I read your "doom & gloom" comment because the exact same words came to my mind when reading these stats. Reciting the white man's stereotypes, statistics, and mental superiority over us is counter-productive people! This thread is about trying to build....not tear down. It is about trying to create a United States of Africa....the real FUBU (for us by us)!! This may or may not be realistic. Of course I believe it is realistic, but if I'm wrong, and it isn't. Let's not use centuries old racial stereotypes as proof against black people not being able to build anything!

Peace Sunship, NNQueen, Pan Africa, Chukwuemeka and all.....

His views as concerns blacks [which I would wager, are far worse than he is letting on since he is and was aware that he would be making his work available to the general public - in which blacks are to be found] are telling and are indicative of an Africa with he in the Presidency where Africans would fare no better at the very best.

Even though he does later go on to refer to all humans as 'backward', it is the reasons he gives for blacks being backward that almost prevented me from finishing.

To be found within that section on blacks [regardless of its title] is a core system of belief that blacks are inferior on at least one level and possibly more, if others who have held similar views are anything to go by, I get the sense that those sentiments are restrained.

The content of the text relative to the length contained in that one section, is also telling.

"Blacks...well they sure can procreate and well, lets face it, they're a little lazy arent they"

al-Qadhafi has shown himself to be a person who will work with Europeans and the U.S as and when it suits him and his policy towards Africans immigrants in Libya, seem to me to be a way of appeasing Libyans who believe that Africans are to blame for the socio economic problems even though, as usual, the problems [given closer scrutiny] find their roots in rampant corruption, mismanagement of resources, and severe restrictions on Libyan political and social freedom.

Plus he has supported attempts to destabilise some African countries in the past and now here he is supporting an African Union after failing to bring about an Arab version.
In short, he will abandon Africans at the drop of a hat if it so suits his efforts in gaining international respectability.

Plus, I do not agree with his views concerning women, which I believe are in themselves, 'coercive' and restricting, in that they take into account only the fact that a woman was born a woman with the ability to carry a child and not a woman with an individual mind of her own who may genuinely wish feel it is 'her place' to do other things.

I do agree with his views on the definition and implementation of true democracy however, but Africans should do their own thing and trust noone.

We should get used to the fact that noone wants what is best for us, but us.


____________________________________________


The subconscious mind serves as our personal computer. It acts as a data storage, retrieval system, and memory bank, which takes in and permanently stores everything we experience. Unfortunately for most of us, most of the information stored in our subconscious mind amounts to negative programming or conditioning. Between seventy and eighty percent of the information we've received during our life is negative. Researchers estimate that the average child in America receives twenty negative messages from his parents for each positive, reassuring one!

The collective African subconscious mind is so littered with negativity as regards the group that in that respect, we can only list the problems and why it will never work.


I think blacks as a people suffer from a form of mass derealization where we focus predominately on our thoughts and imaginations and not the reality of the situation.

Look around you, you'll see black professionals specializing in a myriad of fields, that is the reality of the situation as it pertains to our ability to solve problems.

In my humble opinion, blacks are just as capable as anyone else at solving problems, there exist blacks doctors, engineers etc whose jobs require the finding of solutions to very complex problems.

The question in my opinion is not whether we can solve problems [we can or they'd be no black doctors etc] but rather, why can't we transfer or apply what it is we are capable of as individuals to our efforts as a group of people.

It is a huge job in itself [although, technology has made and is continuing to make it easier] to convince a group of people as large and as widespread as we are that we are basically good for nothing or very little [sports, music, fashion inspiration].

I think blacks today are a reflection of what is portayed in the media, most televsion shows and movies only depict successful blacks in an individualist light and this has contributed heavily to a continued inability to move forward as a group.

You see this in all the popular forms of visual media, blacks out for themselves, so that is what we are capable of, those images, that programming is stored within our subliminal minds.

One way in which blacks could go about overcoming this self destructive habit of favouring anything that originates from outside our communities rather than within [conditioning designed to prevent blacks from competing as a group] is first to ask how is this dysfuntional mode of thought maintained and emphasised on a mass scale by those with a vested interest, and then use that exact strategy in effecting change.

I think we must recondition, reprogramme our minds first before we can move forward.

Mass distribution of that kind of information, positive or negative is achieved via mass media [newspapers, televsion, radio, hollywood etc] and I believe that is where blacks should concentrate some of their efforts in instilling a new [or rather, older] way of viewing ourselves in relation to others and in substituting black individualism for a black collective mentality.

As pointed out by Pan Africa, there would exist no competition in that material on offer to blacks by the mainstream media is [as I said] by and large, malicious in it portrayal of us, which goes to this continued psychological regression we as a group of people [African] suffer from.

And there'd be a huge market for it, not just necessarily black, since by its content, it would be a unique experience for blacks [on this scale] and anyone else who would be interested in looking deeper into what it really means to be an African.
Even if rival competition were to eventually surface, it would still have to run along the same philosophical lines as black owned mass media otherwise blacks, being aware of an alternative source in information, entertainment, education and point of view about themselves, would not support it.

But that is an unlikely occurence, more likely that the enemy would conduct some sort of COINTELPRO on it but we are not the only people on this planet oppressed and some have shaken [or are in the process of doing so] it off by working together.

Look at some parts of Asia.

Financing such a venture? Every black [or the vast majority] in his immediate community [borough --> city --> nation].

Rally people to donate a paltry sum, anything over one or two dollars towards a central agency owned by the [black] people that operates for the sole purposes of the [black] people, who consume what it produces and in doing so, help to circulate wealth within black communities a while before it leaves it, which in turn invariably draws in 'new blood' as businesses [advertising] begin to recognise and make use of a viable market.

You know what they say, once you've made the first million, making more is easy.
Yes, we've been hurt but it is within our reach to pull ourselves out of the pit.

Coverage of sport, music [pro black oriented, none of the snoop dog crap], politics, children's entertainment etc etc from a black perspective, initially financed by blacks and therefore owned by them relative to one's level of financial involvement.

I think this activiity would charge blacks at large with a fresh spirit, reinvigorating and inspiring them to contribute in some way [ie, getting a job there] or building their own projects, possibly with other blacks so as to reduce costs with a view to gradually merging with this or other projects and thus form a black net of business within which all black needs [food, clothes, entertainment, health etc] are met.



Peace

Thank you Uzoka for your comments, as always they prove to be informative and encouraging to our cause. I too do not trust Mr. al-Qaddafi or his intentions for Africa. We all know that Qaddafi first tried to create a pan-Arabic country; once this failed the Colonel suddenly decided that the pan-African state was the way to go—under his (Arab) leadership…of course. Obviously, if he could emerge as the leader of a continent of 52 countries, he could wield considerable influence in the world. Africa could then be used as a stepping stone, which the Arabs would use in their struggle against the West. As I've already posted before, this would not be the first time the Arabs have pulled this trick on Black Africans; so African leaders would best be warned to stay clear of the Arabs and their "benevolence."

With respect to Blacks building their own institutions and wealth; I believe this is essential if Black people are to overcome poverty. Black people do not even have to give their money to one central agency; they could begin at the community level. For example, a group of friends (let's say 5) could decide to pool 10% of there income and setup a grocery store in their neighborhood. They could encourage family, church and community members to buy from them; through hard work and quality service they can build up a clientele of customers, which also helps build the Black economy. This is the way wealth is generated and fortunes are made.

This is just one example of practical things the average Black person could do to help improve their community and make a profit If anyone else has any more practical economic ideas which any Black person could do RIGHT NOW that would be beneficial to the Black community please post!

Start small then working our way up?

Hmm

It's unconventional but I think it could just work :)

Seriously though, yes, my answer focused on blacks and their questioned ability to solve problems [clearly we can] and ways of nipping in the bud this defeatist mental block that hinders problem solving as a group and ways of replacing it with a newly reconditioned black thought process, positively controlling and protecting it; always emphasising black self reliance and the capability of blacks to get the job done as a group for the group...that I forgot to note that blacks could go about the last part of my post first.

Look at other people, in times of war for instance and especially...they constantly reinforce themselves as a people towards roughly the same goal by bombarding themselves with media to that effect and look at the response, some, foaming at the mouth, a powerful tool blacks would do well towards using, and at a profit, evetually becoming self sustaining.

A monthly donation of $1-$2 [unity tax].

Or why not do both so as not to, in effect, end up working alongside the enemy and their plans for a black people fragmented [and therefore in a state of disunity] by wealth and therefore access to quality education, health etc....the haves and the havenots, the havenots of course being looked down upon and being seen [as we see it today] as an embarrassment and the like.

Basically making sure we all move up as closely up as is possibly at an equal rate.

But yes, those who are lucky to have access to funds, find other blacks...friends, family and start something, build up a client base, you'll have no trouble doing so.

Blacks are crying out for more people [preferably black people] to represent their needs and interest commercially without ulterior motive or a distorted or lopsided interpretation.

And in my opinion, it should be without seeking white financial backing so they cannot interfere in that respect and for the reason that no matter how successful your business venture becomes, and no matter how good you end up feeling about it, it will always be with the underlying knowledge that it would not have been possible without whites, thus the end results is that if blacks [as a group] look deep enough [or maybe not so deep] we'll find the totality of our thinking as to the relationship and standing of blacks compared to whites has changed little.

Look at how many people appreciate honest blacks who work in the interests of their people, look no further than this forum.


Peace

Start small then working our way up?

Hmm

It's unconventional but I think it could just work :)

Seriously though, yes, my answer focused on blacks and their questioned ability to solve problems [clearly we can] and ways of nipping in the bud this defeatist mental block that hinders problem solving as a group and way of replacing it with a newly reconditioned group minset, always emphasising black self reliance and the capability of blacks to get the job done as a group for the group...that I forgot to note that blacks could go about the last part of my post first.

Look at other people, in times of war for instance and especially...they constantly reinforce themselves as a people towards roughly the same goal by bombarding themselves with media to that effect and look at the response, some, foaming at the mouth, a powerful tool blacks would do well towards using, and at a profit, evetually becoming self sustaining.

A monthly donation of $1-$2 [unity tax].

Or why not do both so as not to, in effect, end up working alongside the enemy and their plans for a black people fragmented [and therefore in a state of disunity] by wealth and therefore access to quality education, health etc....the haves and the havenots, the havenots of course being looked down upon and being seen [as we see it today] as an embarrassment and the like.

Basically making sure we all move up as closely up as is possibly at an equal rate.

But yes, those who are lucky to have access to funds, find other blacks...friends, family and start something, build up a client base, you'll have no trouble doing so.

Blacks are crying out for more people [preferably black people] to represent their needs and interest commercially without ulterior motive or a distorted or lopsided interpretation.

And in my opinion, it should be without seeking white financial backing so they cannot interfere in that respect and for the reason that no matter how successful your business venture becomes, and no matter how good you end up feeling about it, it will always be with the underlying knowledge that it would not have been possible without whites, thus the end results is that if blacks [as a group] look deep enough [or maybe not so deep] we'll find the totality of our thinking as to the relationship and standing of blacks compared to whites has changed little.

Look at how many people appreciate honest blacks who work in the interests of their people, look no further than this forum.


Peace

Exactly!!! I Uzoka, I feel that somehow I have understood you very well. Black people need to get it out of our minds that we should seek to enter White corporate America. Because when there's a recession--like the one were currently in--and people start getting laid off you can bet a million dollars on who the first people are to loose their jobs. Yes, you guessed it, Black people. Black people must stop relying on others for opportunities; we must learn to do for ourselves. As far as I'm concerned anybody for doesn't look like us should play no part in our struggle. That's why Black people should invest in Black-owned institutions. That means Black-owned Colleges, Banks, Contractors, Realtors, Investment companies etc.

Black people always complain about how they receive unfair treatment from company or how they are discriminated by that company. Yet we haven gotten the message that the only way we can end the discrimination and unfair treatment is by having our own companies, which cater for our needs--at a profit of course. Many Black people place their money in Banks that won't even give them loans to build businesses or get mortgage to own a home. Yet our money is used by these Banks to give loans and mortgages to other people and build their communities. It's really quite interesting the way we give financial assistance to people who don't look like us and sure as hell can't stand us; but yet continue to ignore our own communities, which are crime ridden, drug polluted and disease infested ghettos. Heck we don't even own our communities. The houses most Black people live in are rented from foreigners, who also own all the businesses which suck out the community’s wealth.

The Black community despite its deprivation can be improved Black people must first see the benefit of going into businesses for ourselves—and without the help of others. Most of the few successful Black businesses people got their help from Whites. For example, Bob Johnson of BET received a half a million dollar investment loan from John Malone, the former CEO of TCI, to start his flagship company. So all those who are upset that BET is no longer Black-owned need not worry; it was never fully Black-owned to begin with! I'm sure the White board members of BET—yes there were Whites on Board (get it)—pressured Johnson to sell out…I mean accept Viacom's bid. Thanx.

Peace family,

This thread is loaded with insightful thought, but if you think about what’s being said here, these same ideas about African/African American advancement have been written and talked about since “The Mis-education of the Negro”, by Dr. Carter G. Woodson, published 1933. 1933!! There is nothing new about our problems and our need to address them. I’m not saying that, because we haven’t achieve our goals, that we shouldn’t look for answers, but after watching these dilemmas and shortcomings, along with observations and ideas rise and fall constantly, we may be to conservative and academic in our approach to our problems.

Let’s look at what’s really at the core of life and livelihood. Too many times we direct our attention to the corporate world of Black MBA’s, lawyers, accountants or we talk about Black millionaires, who made their wealth in nonessential areas. We unfortunately confuse Black entrepreneurship with Black Nationalism, just like we turned, a Kawaida-theory based, Kwanzaa into almost a “Black Christmas” like holiday. We yearn for freedom on non-responsive constructs that are not at the direct-core of our every day reality.

The late Dr. John Hendrik Clarke, always seemed frustrated about the simple essentials of living that black people didn’t manufacture or control. I remember, he always talked about the fact, that “there wasn’t even a “safety pin” factory in all of Africa or why couldn’t Black people start self-producing by making their own handkerchiefs”. Now I know, that the popular use of safe pins and handkerchiefs are from a different time, but the essence of the idea is still the same. What he was trying to say was, these widely used and simple objects, purchased by the Black community, could easily be remanufactured and sold (real FUBU). What I’m getting at, is the things that are the glue to many national and/or cultural infrastructures are usually not that exciting and academic, but are widely used by progressive intellectuals and revolutionary academics everyday, but go unnoticed.

Lets look at this from a historical point of view, as it pertains to Africa. I’m sure those were blessed days when one African nation after another reconstituted their independence and threw oppressive European colonizers off their backs, but soon after the colonizers left and the mechanical/industrial infrastructure they left behind started to rust, crack and wear out, African leaders quickly realized that the bolts, nuts and screws were just as important as the machine itself, that’s why the roadsides of so many African countries are littered with broken down cars, buses and trucks. Once the bus broke down, there was no part to repair it. Well of course here is one of the beginnings of parasitical neo-colonialism.

When Africans/African Americans talk about social progress, industrialization and commercial enterprises, you rarely hear us mention bolts-nuts-screws factories, hammer and nail production, plumbing pipes, button factories, toilet tissue and toilets. Matter of fact, at one time there was only 3 companies that made all of the toilets (commodes) in the U. S.. Black people need to realize that at the end of the day, non-aesthetical bulldozers, cranes and dump trucks move the world, not just computers, ink pens and calculators.

It has become condescending and too common to talk about these things in progressive roundtable discussions, for the word revolution sounds better than toilet and MBA sounds better than bricklayer. I’ve seen carpenters and bricklayers write contracts and count money very well, but I never seen a MBA or CPA lay a brick or swing a hammer.

What we find ourselves doing, reminds me of a partial lyric from an African American work song that said, “you (whites) take the corn and leave us the husk”.

It’s amazing to see an African youth running down a street with no shoestrings, no belt, no buttons and no thread to mend his shirt, but handling a several thousand-dollar weapon, with several hundred dollars of ammunition. These young men and women expend their lives for revolutionary ideas and so-called democratic ideologies that they don’t understand or social movements that usually never feed or skillfully train their brothers and sisters.

Unfortunately, we were given education to survey the land, but not to plant on it; to account for the tools, but not to use them; and to engineer the bulldozer but not build and operate it.

I mean “why drive a 1-ton pickup truck, when you can drive a Benz” wouldn’t that be a waste of a lot of money and a good education.

Peace,

Sun Ship

Brother Sun Ship...after reading your last message, all I can contribute as a reply is :bowdown: much respect for your perspective.

Peace.

Yes an outstanding point of view and something to sit back and think about and something those people, who as I mentioned, could start businesses of their own in [with others if need be..family, friends]...more contributions would not go amiss however.
Speak up as pointed out by NNqueen....I still believe the mind is the first point of attack in moving us forward, certainly, there is validity in working to protect it on an ever increasing scale, and what I aim to focus on away from this forum.


Almost too much food for thought there but I must stress that the project I have in mind is not about putting blacks in suits, although of course, by virtue of the nature of this project, some would...we have enough of those yet nothing changes as regards the collective psychology [probably the most important nut and bolt of all], which is what this is about.

I'm talking visual media, seeing is believing for the average man and woman [and how are blacks predominately rendered visually by the mainstream broadcasting networks....negros or criminals, buffoons...with one or two exceptions, Cosby for instance but he pulled the plug when they wanted to go in another direction and I can pretty much guess what that direction was, who knows, maybe they even suggested it so that he WOULD pull the plug] who hasn't taken the time to research, knows nothing about his ancestors and is of the opinion that blacks are not able to do what needs to be done..."Why? who knows! but that's the way it is so let me just look after myself and my family".

We are bombarded with media that tells us we cannot do anything as a group that we can do it as individuals as long as we do it within a European construct, hence no unity...no forward thinking as a group...only reasons why we can't.

As was stated, Dr John Hendric Clarke asked, "Why couldn’t Black people start self-producing by making their own handkerchiefs”.

See what I mean?

How long ago? 1933???...Why wont blacks do these things,...why are we going instead in the opposite direction [prison]...[if blacks are going to do it...when?]

Because the group mindset is and has been geared towards an individualistic perspective on what it means to achieve in this world [and the only time blacks are seen in groups is when they are up to no good] , that is what we are shown of ourselves, hence why you have African leaders who instead of doing for their people have over the past 50 years or so, leeched unspeakable fortunes from the state coffers and left their people to die in the ditch, vestiges of European colonial conditioning.

I mean even conscious blacks on this forum were asking IF we are able to solve problems....even the conscious among us carry doubts and have to ask!,....that's the power of the visual media, they know what they are doing.

I believe if you use media, visual media...television, black owned, black financed, to put forth a black perspective THEN you can start to work on and convince people of the need to start focusing on the basics....then you can mould, protect and direct people's mind in a way that incites blacks to work on those essential skills and projects, all the while being positively entertained, in the same way that they work in their agenda into the programming schedule so as to maintain things are they are, and further their imperialistic aspirations.

Who is speaking for us while they do this....we should speak for ourselves to ourselves. [FUBU]

I like others, believe it's up to the people of the African diaspora to come in and help with building an infrastructure in Africa, but our mindsets are no better off[and in some cases worse] than our African brothers and sisters...but we work, we earn therefore we have the means to contribute toward this and work to recondition and inspire ourselves.

As Lauryn Hill said, "How you gonna win when you aint right within".

Whites know the power of the media...they used it to convince everyone that everything they do is inherently right, and everything else is only worthy of being belittled.
I personally that we should fight fire with fire, if they attack our minds with the use of all kinds of media -- visual being that one that consistently reaches the masses to form and influence their world view and social psychology-- we use visual media to strike a balance, or rather we tip the balance in our favour by telling the TRUTH! as to what is going on in the world, and what has been.

When they say all blacks are criminals or they are more likely, stories are researched to balance this.
When they say Africans cannot govern themselves, coverage is given to show how and why these conflicts are perpetuated and by whom [western multinationals buying weapons and such things as helicopters for police and the local military to wage war on activists and the indigenous and exploiting what were minor disagreements and fanning the flames till they become full scale wars...so no one notices they have poison the land and now it is unable to grow food...or there are no fish in the water].

When they say, Africa is infested with AIDS because some hunter ate a diseased monkey, coverage is given to contaminated vaccines given by western mssionaries and the like, so that blacks become are able to find a psychological balance and mental peace in a world that uses the media to inflict upon us a one sided, racist view, to cause immobilization and a fear of breaking free.

Instead of saying we weren't educated in the right way, we should educate/condition OURSELVES en masse and the best I know to do that is through television.

A way of reaching black men to guide them in how they should behave in a way that is a credit to the black nation, and how he should relate to black women etc, you know that kind of thing...women too.

Mass education in our history, our ways, the way we used to be and how we can be again....etc etc, change our way of thinking and therefore, doing, and in a way that is easy to digest for everyone, and at the same time change [or balance] other people's perceptions [but who cares what they think].

Oh well that's the way I see it, Peace.

help to circulate wealth within black communities a while before it leaves it, which in turn invariably draws in 'new blood' as businesses [advertising] begin to recognise and make use of a viable market

I of course meant drawing in black businesses, while encouraging black communities to spend with these black business.

Black women spend $1000 a month on fashion....good grief....see what I mean?

This in turn [I don't need to tell you..I know you know but what the heck] encourages black business to expand....in turn creating jobs....they don't want to employ us?

Pffft....let's employ ourselves, who needs them?

They leave our communities in dilapidated states....lets rebuild it ourselves bit by
bit...using those with essential skills in carpentry [black of course] etc as pointed out by Sunship to come in and do these jobs...paid for by us out of a monthly tax, bit by bit, neighbourhood by neighbourhood [or each neighbourhood at the same time since each city would have its own central agency with each neighbourhood within each city electing a panel of people to put forward at the beginning of each year what needs to be fixed and built, that panel being made of a diverse mix of people from within those communities....again, black of course].

And because there's alot of 'nut and bolt' work [new and the repairing, maintenance of the not so new] to be done, it would help to encourage some of those who are either not currently skilled and do not necessarily have the time to go back and earn a degree etc, or those who may have otherwise lived a life of crime...and future generations to see carpentry, plumbing, being an electrician, these essential skills as a viable, respected alternative means of earning a living and even to start businesses in, thus increasing the numbers of those who are willing to train in these professions to bring about a black people who are fully able to maintain, finance, and run their own affairs without turning outside to people who couldn't give a stuff.

They would command respect because as time passed, blacks would develop a collective mindset where to ask outside the community would become sort of taboo in that group self reliance would be the absolute order of the day, we'd develop a taste for it.

That being the case and the fact that things must be maintained if they are to continue working [expanded upon too] they [builders etc] would come to be seen as essential to our continued independent survival....respect.

Not to mention that jobs are being created [in these and other areas because the community is being encouraged en masse to spend with their own] increasing wealth circulation amongst blacks and therefore the need to expand in some way, which goes to more jobs etc, and as efforts become noticeable, it further boosts black psychology and is added to research material for black networks in charting black progression and positively steering black morale and eats away at the stereotypes that abound as concerns blacks.

Thus, the whole thing takes on a life of its own.

They'd be plenty of contract work within the black communities, and reduced competition in that for a change, blacks would be doing what everyone else is doing, favouring their own.
And of course, as pointed out by panafrica, Africa is perhaps the biggest contract of all time, creating huge networking opportunities and a chance for Africa to build something of its own on, through and with the help of the diaspora, a mutually beneficial relationship.


Peace

Greetings family.my apologies for what promises to be a lengthy and disjointed raving on my part. I assure you in all this lunacy there is some sense.

Many of this world's thinkers, scholars and idealists came from our Nation (African descent). Our meetings usually take the longest because we enjoy discussions but what is alarming is the fact that we never put our beautiful ideas to fruitition.

As a people we are a great but our problems stem from a simple fact which is we seem to lack loyalty to our own. Our greatest enemy is ourselves. We also like the quick fix to our situations. We also show off too much! For many years I was angry at the whole slavery thing but it eventually dawned on me that I was angry at the mere fact that I was still a slave to the same system that put chains around my neck. The chain around the neck has been substituted by that ideology that as a people we will never amount to much despite the wealth of natural resources we have.

For centuries we were made to watch ourselves being made to tow the line in foreign lands and when we even get to go to the Motherland we are treated far worse. Our young people are learning this 50Cent mentality of "Get Rich or die trying" which basically means they are learning to kill each other and sell drugs so as to live up to that bling bling illusion.

Africa will have to invest in its own education system which can survive on par with the West's. By that i mean i should be able to earn my degree in the remotest part of Nigeria or Zimbabwe and be able to travel to Washington and get a job without being quizzed over the validity of my qualifications. Why is it that Africa is on par when it comes to the garbage churned by MTV or whaTV spews to us. I assure you, you are able to get Terrestrial Hellevision in the remote plains of Natal. Why? I recently travelled to Zimbabwe and was suprised to see how americanised the young people have been. The big fake gold chains, t-shirts with Ruff Riders emblem on them. They even have a name for this generation of young people and they call 'em "masalads" those who eat salad. when will the miseducation stop?

Someone mentioned why Europeans are able to work together and have a stronger economic base. Its simple they know who their threat is. (Everyone else)Not everyone who puts an arm around your shoulders is your friend, sometimes that arm is there to stop you from moving any further. Africa recieves aid not because we are poor, but because it stops us from working for ourselves and sorting out our economic situation. America and Europe know this and they are far too happy to stunt our progress cause they know the moment we know what to do with our oil and gold its back to the dark ages for them. If we can be kept passive and appeased then we are kool. America and Europe has also managed to sell an image which is attractive to the whole universe. Even in movies aliens go straight to the States on landing.(hahaha) What do you see when Africa is mentioned? Starvation, AIDS etc.

Unless Africa realises that its greatest allies are itself then I am afraid we will be discussing this topic for a long time.
While the Europeans were freezing their ninnies in caves, Greeks were killing their philosophers who in fact had acquired their learn