It seems as if this is a questions that has puzzled so many over the years. Just when it seems when we have finally found the solution.......we STILL have a lot to learn. In my neighborhood, it seems as if the parents and family members are just like the children. Thus, the children become just like them.

But in every neighborhood and origin there seems to be different senarios. Some children are nothing like their parents, some are the exact twin, and others just fall in between. I found this so quizzing.

Michelle is a 16 year old preacher's daughter. She portrays the perfect image while in front of her parents. She's never missed a church service in all her life, even if she was sick. However, Monday through Saturday, she's a totally different person. She skips school. Comes back to the teacher's class making up lies saying she got to school late so her parent wouldn't see the effect on her report card. She's been with every guy and two girls in her neighborood. Are her parents responsible for this????

Marcus is the neighborhood thug. He lives in the projects. He never hides his actions. He acts the SAME even around his mother. He does every thing to be the most popular. He killed a number of fellas and even sexed most of the girls ( subtract the ugly ones). His mother prays for him every day. She gave him all the attention that any little boy could ask for. She gave him all the education that she knew. In fact he was the top of his class all the way to the 7th grade. Does her actions reflect on him???

Nicole joined a gang at age 12. She easily became the neighborhood thief. If your property has ever been stolen, check in her house. Her mother and father were both lawyers. Why would she need to steal? They wondered where all the merchandise was coming from. They thought she had gotten it from a friend or relative. They never had a clue. They didn't even know where she got the skills from until they caught her one Sunday. Are they the one to blame??

Is a parent the one to blame when a child bites a teacher? Are they the ones responsible when a child curses and they never curse at or in front of their child?? Is a mother / father to blame is the child turns out to be a murderer? Are they the ones to blame is the child never amounts to nothing at all?? If not, who's to blame??

I really want to hear ya'll oppinion.......c'mon bring on the responses.......let's talk.

I think that it is sometimes the child's fault. I agree. Sometimes, children gets aty a certain age where they think that they are able to make their own decisions. Some are bad and some are good. Sometimes, children just do it to liberate their parent's rule or even gets it from peer pressure. Just like you said, it doens't have to be influenced from inside of the home, it could be the influences from outside of the home.

No, they aren't always.

parents are responsible for the children..children can not sign documents, or admit themselves in to school etc. etc..... whether good or bad there action is our responsiblity...if they are unruly it is up to us as there parents to find or ask the best help for them...we need to know where you are, and check and make sure you are there...being more then nosey
we pray that things goes well for you when you are not in our site..
No one can say how a child turns out..you as a parent give 110%..stay involve to the very end of there childhood...keep them involve in activites so the street will be just a place to cross when you going from here to there not hunging out..it is a lot of work being a parent...when you do the best you can..that is all anyone can do..it is our respondsiblity

Are you kidding me? Ofcourse parents are responsible for their children's actions!!! What kind of a society do we live in where parents abdicate their responsibilities as parents with a shrug. Parents have to realize that they and their children are NOT equal. You don't negotiate with your child or try to bribe your child into doing what you want. If the child is bad or disrespectful then you've got to do what you've got to do to make the child see that you're position is non negotiable--PERIOD!!! This society--which has succeeded in eroding the role of parents in there children's life--continually advises parents against the use of corporal punishment and more towards time outs, bribes and negotiations rather than actually punishing their kids. How ridiculous!!!

Ok, if what ya'll say is true, what about the parents that pray for their children and also discipline them and they still become something that is NOT acceptable? What about that? And you say, that parents should NOT negotiate. Well, um.....let's see.......what about other cultures that do not discipline them physically........studies find that these are the children that grow up to be the leading officials. Maybe, we as a black culture have grown so accustom to the old ways that we don't take time to look up new and improved methods. I just think parents should take time and look at WHY you child did what he/ she did. I also think that after you have done everything that you could possibly do, then it is no longer the parents fault........ it is in the Lord hand to settle it out.

Ok, if what ya'll say is true, what about the parents that pray for their children and also discipline them and they still become something that is NOT acceptable? What about that? And you say, that parents should NOT negotiate. Well, um.....let's see.......what about other cultures that do not discipline them physically........studies find that these are the children that grow up to be the leading officials. Maybe, we as a black culture have grown so accustom to the old ways that we don't take time to look up new and improved methods. I just think parents should take time and look at WHY you child did what he/ she did. I also think that after you have done everything that you could possibly do, then it is no longer the parents fault........ it is in the Lord hand to settle it out.

Excuse me? What exactly do you mean by "new and improved methods"? If your talking about the way White children and Black children are disciplined (which I think you are) then your deeply mistaken. White children in general tend to be more disrespectful and talk back alot more to their parents than Black parents. Haven't you ever seen cases of White children acting up in places like the mall or Walmart etc, whilst their parents seem powerless to control them. Heck, I know some White kids who tell their parents to shut up and actually say no to their parents. White kids do more drugs, alcahol and ciggarettes than Black kids, although this seems to escape media attention--who insist that ALL forms of crime should have a Black (male)face on it. The problem Black kids who are bad usually come from single parent-absentee father households. Now not to nock women, but when it comes to discipline you really need a man to handle that kind of responsibility. After all a woman can only discipline her children--especially her son--for so long before it stops having any real effect. This is one of the reason why fathers are need in the house hold.

I respectfully beg to disagree with you Chukwuemeka and others who take your position that parents are responsible for their children's actions. First of all, it is a broad question and by the examples given, how can you seriously believe that parents are always and totally responsible for the things that their children do? To believe that parents are not always responsible for the behavior of their children is not, in my opinion, an abdication of their responsibilities. What that says to me is that children are people too, with the ability to think and choose, just as parents are.

Granted, to some degree, a child's behavior reflect how they are raised. The way our parents and other adults interact with us plays a large role in how we perform as adults. But remember that there are exceptions to every rule and these exceptions must be factored into the equation.

At what point does a parent's responsibility begin and where does it end? Legally and minimally, parents are responsible for providing food, shelter and clothing, and at the least, a public education. Many parents provide even a nurturing environment and a spiritual foundation. To me, parents that provide love to their children is better than those that don't, but even so, there are no guarantees that these children will reciprocate and follow their example.

Home environment has a strong influence on a child, true, but if a child chooses not to follow the directions of a parent, then is it the parent's fault? What if the child suffers from some socio-psychological disorder and goes undiagnosed and is viewed simply as a "bad" kid? Is it the parent's fault there too because they may not be able to distinguish the difference between behavioral and psychological disturbances?

Children that do "bad" things are not always products of an abusive home or are born to parents that don't care or try to nurture them. Children that do "good" things are not always from a nurturing home either. The same way you can't push a rope, a parent cannot beat sense into their children nor force them to behave. They can to some extent control their behavior by confining them but it doesn't guarantee positive results. You can intimidate them and make them fear you, but that doesn't mean they have learned the lesson you want them to learn nor does it earn you respect. The weapon you use to discipline them with actually is what earns the victim's respect.

If a parent puts a child in a position where, if they make bad choices and injure themselves or others, then yes, the parent should be held responsible because then they put the child's life in jeopardy. But for those parents that do try to take responsibility for parenting in a healthy way and their children choose to behave the opposite way, I can't see how you would think they should be held responsible. But that seems to be the direction that laws are moving toward these days. How do you think this affects a parent's choices? So to believe that parents are always responsible for what their children do, reflects wishful thinking and not reality, in my opinion.

Peace.

facts of the matter is parents are held accountable for there children action til they reach an age ...some teens are and do get out of control so it go both ways in different cases black
children respect parents more so then white kids it's all because
black parents will spake anywhere with the law as it is we tend
to lack fully but yes we can bring these children up right and yes some do go wrong on there own path this happen more then we know it's not they was brought up wrong they choose too walk the life they live bad or good but most of the time we are held accountable for our children action it's like a thin line between
and it falls on both sides of the stick all due to age when they reach 16 - 19 we lose control over them as they take to the streets , friends and other wrong misguided actions ............

childrens who do go wrong it's not because of a single parent or
a massive abusive stting in the home or because parents didn't
bare down on them most the time it's all from the streets and what they learn from it how they seek fine things like cars , money, jewels and name brand things to have them they will
cross lines to get it like a mental display so the acts they take is more so from out the home then in the home i've seen parents do all they can bring them up in church and get that behind as needed and still the child go bad it was the path they choose to take
we as parents are held for the children even if we not there to witness it but the key is it all start at home and if we teach them the right things and about the bad and where it will lead too
most of the time these kids will be just fine and have a more positive note on life ....it can go both ways in some cases but most part yes we are held accountable for the acts & actions our kids make or do.

Please outline what study(s) have shown that kids that arent spanked grow to be leaders? I think that this is specious BS

Keme, why you got to be all upset and refer to someone's opinion as cow dung? You need to calm down, don't you think? :jumping: If you don't agree, just write "I don't agree". And since we're on the subject of studies, do you know of any data that shows children who aren't spanked don't grow to be leaders? Besides, what's a 'leader' by your definition?

Peace!

parents are fully responsible for there children in all area..it starts from birth the nuturing of the child....when you are in touch with your children..your observation will detect if your child needs more attention in certain areas...and it is up to the parents to find help to get help..and if need be to train in that area for there benefit..this is what i had to do as a young mother.

most white peolpe do not raise there children themselves...and they believe in given there children things instead of attention and affection... attention is the key word..the behavior of a young can be a cry for attention..if they are embrace more when they do positive things, then why would they want to do negative thing..or disappoint there parents and we as parents need to be aware of what we do and say in front of our children it is all in the balance of being respondsible...sometime a parent made have to go as far as quitting there job for there child benefit..because they come first..if these things are not cause at a young age...then that is where the problem child comes in...simple observation

WOW.....it's been a while since I looked at this post......I'm glad to see that so many of you are interested in this topic. After looking at what most of you said......I find that you want to see some edvidence supportin' my claim.......and your wish is GRANTED!!!!

I found just the right website that supports my statement. It is ces.ns2000.net/webs/cescampus/upload/oct._20.pdf.
If you don't wish to read the whole document I'll just pull out one statement in particlar that back up what I'm sayin' ,aiight?

" Statistical research has shown that children who participate in an wholesome environment; foster self discipline and perseverance."

This statement is saying that once a child is given a good enviornment that that is ALL they need and they will carry on from there. Once a child is nutured they grow and develop SELF discipline. Thus, they don't need physical discipline. I haven't found graphs and charts yet......I'm workin on that.....give me a few days......I have a book around the house somewhere..........because I used it to persuade my mother from whippin' me.......it made a very impressive argument because eventually she stopped all the way.

And secondly, I wasn't JUST talkin about white and black folks ways of discipline. And slash that comment anyway.........because after thinkin that over you can't put that type of generlization on people anyway. So whoever made that argument about that I think you should rethink yourself too.

Back to negotiating with the child.I think it is right to negotiate with the child after a certain age. Maybe starting at the age of 15 - and up. I found a published article at: www.ispcc.ie/par_discipline.htm
It states:

QUOTE:

Teenagers
NEGOTIATION:
Try to discuss any conflicts in a positive way, without getting cross. It is better to 'negotiate' with your child and find a middle way that you can both accept, just as you would with an adult.

MUTUAL RESPECT:
Teenagers are more likely to respect your views if you show respect for theirs. Imposing your opinions may only make things worse. LIMIT CRITICISM: Try not to be too critical - as they become adults, children need a lot of support and encouragement to build up their confidence.

I don't know how we got off the topic.......but um.........I must end by saying I agree with NNQueen.......that parents only should be held responsible after a certain age.

i strongly agree foxy and yes i stated that once a child reach an
age of teen hood that it can be more openly discussed with parents but even at 15 -17 still is on the parents to be held
accountible for them even when they not there from the study of
the type of enviornment they are brought up in really to me have no true affect i've seen and know many who was in bad enviornments come out to be great young adults and i'm one
who was brought up in the bad vibes of streethood but yes if they are in better places they come out and up respectful kids they really need support from parents to over come the power from the streets that reach at them i agree ....

Can somebody please tell me how this "for God-sake let's not spank our children because being soft and pandering to them works much better" mentality took hold among Blacks...of all people! The truth is spanking children DOES instill discipline, "negotiating" doesn't. As I said again one can not negotiate with kids, because parents and children are NOT equal. You can't say to a six year old--who's disrespected you at home--"please don't do that, mommy/daddy think's your being really naughty right now. So, you can have a time-out and think about what you've done ." Come on now, that kind of pathetic attempt at parental discipline will just not work! Kids don't reflect on what they've done unless shown why what they did is so bad. If you spank the six year-old he/she will associate the wrong deed with the disciplinary action, and thus, won't do it again.

The real issue why parents don't wish to spank their children is that they don't wont to be accused of physical abuse. There is a difference between physical abuse and spanking. Beating a kid black-and-blue for whatever reason is unacceptable; using the belt on the outstretched palm of a kid who's just tried to choke his little sister isn't! The problem is that some parents cross the line from discipline to abuse. But that's the parents fault not the use of corporal punishment. The truth is parents should apply a carott and stick approach to discipline; it shouldn't be all spanking nor should it be all "negotiating". Kids should be praised for doing right and punished for doing wrong--simple as that.

I agree children of such ages as under the upper teen hood
need to be controled and teach right from wrong but once
they reach this age of teenhood you can reach to them more
by talking it out beating them or out right fussing can set them astray to the streets faster and this how so many become bad seeds but i know what you are saying most of all yes parents
are held accountable for there children actions ...

The discussion here has gravitated away from the topic a bit so I have started a NEW thread to address the subject of "spanking" children. See: To Spank or Not To Spank to continue any further discussion about methods and effective ways to discipline our children.

Peace :spinstar:

Keme,

I see, once again, you have demonstrated your unique ability to completely overlook the SIMPLE fact that your comment was also offensive, as I found your reference to cattle manure to be the same.

And because you "got away" with being obnoxious before, doesn't give you license nor liberty to continue. This is a NEW day and different times at Destee.com and I'm sure you understand what that means. Hopefully, that answers your question on "psycho extreme PC" so feel free to ask if you have others.

The person that started this thread is one of our youth. We owe it to her and ourselves to demonstrate that we can be responsible and respectful people when we communicate.

Do we have your support? :help:

Peace!

It depends how old the child is. Once you hit 15, it's all on you. Regardless of how your parents raised you. You know right from wrong. You have common sense. In the casse about the daughter of the preacher...her parents did the right thing with her. It was her choice to do the wrong thing. Choice is the theme of life. Blaming the parents their child's actions is irresponsible after they reach a certain age.

Oh no, she did not just come at me like that........Keme.....or whatever you choose to be called............have you ever heard the saying you should pick your battles wisely.......well this is one that you choose WRONG.........you CAN'T win this one baby...........honey, you said to give edvidence...........and I DID.........I'm tryin VERY VERY HARD to respect my elders......and I take it that you are one of those, right?......well, since you ARE please CARRY yourself as one..........I'm 16 years old and from the projects........I DON'T want to use ANY of those words I was taught where I came from.......... I try very HARD not to go there with my PEOPLE.........but the first time you called my stuff BS.......I said that was kewl......I could take this.........NN Queen handled it for me.......but the next time.......you added synomyns to the bunch..........I HAD to handle it on my own...... I haven't seen any evidence supportin' YOUR claims.......could it be while you're tryin to point the finger that your statements were the ones that were BSin'.........Please Keme.......let's just keep the peace and let it ride........I won't disrespect you if you don't disrespect me........you have to GIVE respect to recieve respect.......

Peace my sister.....

Oh, and fam......most of your comments I agreed with.......I see mothin' wrong with your views.......but I remember one sayin' somethin' about NOT negotiating.......I agree with RICH on this.......up to a certain age when you're STILL spankin' as you put it.......your child might retaliate ever MORE......so I think when they hit puberty they should be given a break and at least given a chance to explain themselves.